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Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 01:59 AM
What's the best way to get a Shield bonus to AC if you don't have a shield proficiency?
I mean I've seen two-weapon defense but that's it.

And I figger for 4000 gold you can make an all day Item of Shield by the DMG's item creation rules, but custom items is custom items and not really a feasible thing to rely on when DM's are involved.

Are there any decent magic items that give such a bonus?

Sources so far

- Two weapon defense tree

- Any shield with an armour check penalty of 0 (e.g. Masterwork Buckler)
--Please note however that the spell failure remains and bucklers are still a detriment to TWF builds (Though imp Buckler Defense helps here)
--Special note is the Beetle buckler. +2 nonmagical AC, can be traded for deflect arrows) (Arms & Equipment Guide)
--Additional, any shield is mutually exclusive with a Monk/Swordsage Wisdom AC bonus

-Dastanas and Chahar-aina Provide a stacking +1 AC bonus to your Leather, hide or chain shirt armour. (oriental adventures)
--Dastanas' require a light armour proficiency, Chahar-aina require Medium.
--it may be possible to benefit by enchanting these separately, check with your DM for a ruling

-Twin Sword Style (Players Guide to Faerun)

-Ring of Force Shield - DMG/SRD 8500gp
-- COUNTS AS A SHIELD! beware interaction with things like Monk/Swordsage Wisdom AC

-Gnome Battle Cloak (Races of Stone p155)
--Requires an EWP, takes up a hand

-Shield Spell/Force Screen Psionics
--Requires Use Magic/Psionic Device or a level dip in an appropriate class

Kalim
2011-01-12, 02:03 AM
Is your concern just holding the shield on your arm?

If you don't mind a shield, you can get one that like, hovers around near you, still providing its bonus but leaving your hands free. I don't remember the technical terms for that, though.

EDIT: Oh, proficiency. I'm not sure whether hover-shield thing requires proficiency or not.

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 02:08 AM
It does, I use an Animated shield for most of my tank/full plate characters.

HunterOfJello
2011-01-12, 02:11 AM
You can always use a Buckler/Light Wooden/Light Steel Shield with the Masterwork quality, +1 enchant or greater on it. If you put those on one of those then you can wear it without proficiency without gaining any penalty other than weight and Arcane Spell Failure Chance (which can also be reduced by enchants). The main penalty for using a shield you aren't proficient in is based on the shield's Armor Check Penalty. However, you can use one without hardly any penalty if you use one of the previously listed qualities to reduce the Armor Check Penalty to 0.

What class are you trying to get a shieldless shield bonus for?

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 02:13 AM
Swordsage, Dual wielding Shortswords.

A magic buckler can be worn without a proficiency? really? huh. That seems oddly simple.

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-12, 02:20 AM
Dastanas from oriental Adventures provide a +1 AC if you have a light armor proficiencies. basically, they be bracers that lay ontop of your armor, and (in theory) can be enchanted separately from armor, but I'd just rule that you get the +1 AC, and they cant be enchanted separately. Also, they still count if you wear a shield over them too! :smallwink:

EDIT: the buckler mentioned above by otehrs doesnt even need to be magical. a MW buckler eliminates all chech penalties, and thus a character without proficiency can wear it without penalty. costs 105 gp compared to 1005 gp for a +1 buckler or mithril.

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 02:25 AM
Oh nice. That's most certainly better than nothing, especially if my DM rules that they can be enchanted.

Coidzor
2011-01-12, 02:28 AM
Oh nice. That's most certainly better than nothing, especially if my DM rules that they can be enchanted.

He probably will, since he'd have to actively rule that they can't. The main thing is, only the highest enhancement bonus applies, so the main thing you're getting out of it is paying to get more lesser armor properties or have a couple of big ones without going into epic equipment.

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 02:40 AM
Ah, dang. Still, a +1 bonus for 25-325gp is pretty good.

2xMachina
2011-01-12, 02:50 AM
I think there's an argument that enhancement bonus improves the item, not the char. A +1 Dastana gives 2 armor/shield AC, not 1 armor AC to the wearer, and another 1 enhancement AC for being magic.

Of course, people's AC will sky rocket this way, so your DM might just shut you down.

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 02:55 AM
Yeah that's true. It seems odd to me that I've never seen them mentioned before if they're such an easy increase to AC.

senrath
2011-01-12, 03:03 AM
It's because OA is 3.0 material, so a lot of people don't like using it.

2xMachina
2011-01-12, 03:07 AM
I suppose the source is a bit obscure... I think it's in OA, which is 3.0. Both does not help it's popularity.

IIRC, there's another armor there that lays over your armor.

Chahar-aina. You need Med armor prof to use it on pain of 1 ACP, but it is not Medium armor. Lay over light armor, to get 1AC.

Abusing them gets you cheap, cheap ways to buff your AC.

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 03:11 AM
Hmm, I think someone was a bit liberal with Copy pasta there. Dastana state they can be worn of Leather, hide and chain shirt armour and need a light armour proficiency.
Chumba wumba Chahar-aina need a medium proficiency and state they can be worn over... Leather, hide and Chain shirt :-/

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-12, 03:27 AM
OA was updated to 3.5. so... dastanas are all legit peoples if the DM permits. (as with all things)

2xMachina
2011-01-12, 03:42 AM
Hmm, I think someone was a bit liberal with Copy pasta there. Dastana state they can be worn of Leather, hide and chain shirt armour and need a light armour proficiency.
Chumba wumba Chahar-aina need a medium proficiency and state they can be worn over... Leather, hide and Chain shirt :-/

Maybe they're meant to be worn together? :smallbiggrin:

2.7k for a cheap +4 for chain shirt armor. Much better than breastplate.

At the end, 75k gets you a whopping +21 armor AC on chain shirt. (+5 from each, +1,+1,+4)

Leon
2011-01-12, 03:43 AM
Chumba wumba Chahar-aina need a medium proficiency and state they can be worn over... Leather, hide and Chain shirt :-/

It wont stop you from getting knocked down and you will have to say farewell to your crown...

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 03:53 AM
Maybe they're meant to be worn together? :smallbiggrin:

2.7k for a cheap +4 for chain shirt armor. Much better than breastplate.

At the end, 75k gets you a whopping +21 armor AC on chain shirt. (+5 from each, +1,+1,+4)
Hmm, now to play a Mr. T build. You got your gold chain shirt, your big chunky bracelets, your massive medallion...



It wont stop you from getting knocked down and you will have to say farewell to your crown...
And it's a shame Drunken monks can't wear light armour cos you'd have to drink a whiskey drink and a vodka drink. Lager drink, cider drink...

gorfnab
2011-01-12, 05:50 AM
One feat that might be worth considering if you're dual wielding is Twin Sword Style from Players Guide to Faerun.

Foryn Gilnith
2011-01-12, 06:18 AM
If you're dual-wielding, you're quite liable to lose any buckler bonus when you use your buckler hand to attack. Get an Darkwood Heavy Shield instead; it's only 100 gp or so more expensive than the masterwork version, and has that same -0 penalty that makes nonprofiency irrelevant. Then, of course, animate it.

Thurbane
2011-01-12, 06:25 AM
Ring of Force Shield (DMG/SRD)?


Force Shield: An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free. It can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action.

Moderate evocation; CL 9th; Forge Ring, wall of force; Price 8,500 gp.

JBento
2011-01-12, 06:29 AM
If you have acces to the... Equipment Handbook? maybe? from 3.0 (was never updated, so it's still valid) you might want to consider the Beetle Buckler - it's a buckler that flies around you and gives you a +1 enhancement bonus to AC on top of the regular buckler bonus (and enhancement boni to AC aren't all that common).

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 08:30 AM
Twin sword style is pretty nice, like dodge but a little better PLUS it stacks with an animated shield, so I could do the darkwood thing too.

I love the beetle buckler generally, but it's still a buckler and would confer penalties to my off hand attacks which two-weapon fighting does not need.
I wonder if you can enchant a beetle buckler to be animated, hmm.

The ring is nice, but a little pricey, sadly it's very existence makes it unlikely my DM will accept a custom shield item for only 4k.

2xMachina
2011-01-12, 09:02 AM
You need a +3 shield, so 9k. Animated is +2, and you can only add it on already magic items.

JBento
2011-01-12, 10:34 AM
The beetle buckler is naturally animated, as it flies on its own for an indeterminate time as soon as you activate it - except it doesn0t follow the normal anmated rules (no need to have proficiency, even if it mattered for bucklers) and it doesn't apply a +2 price hit on your weapon.

2xMachina
2011-01-12, 11:03 AM
Seems nice. Cheap animated shield.

Person_Man
2011-01-12, 11:06 AM
Gnome Battle Cloak: This is a cloak that confers a +1 shield bonus if you are proficient with it. Since it provides a shield bonus and is listed as a shield in the equipment chart, you can enchant it with shield enhancements, even though you're just wearing it. Basically it just saves you the expense of having to buy an Animated shield. You can't make a shield bash with it, but you can make Disarm attempts with it (and you get a +4 bonus), though you have to wield it as an off hand weapon like a light shield to do so. Requires Exotic Shield Proficiency to use properly. Note that Fighters can trade their Tower Shield prof to get this instead. Races of Stone pg 155.

Keld Denar
2011-01-12, 11:54 AM
Could you enchant a Gnomish Battle Cloak with the Bashing enhancement from the DMG? Hmmmm...

I wonder, could you wield a Gnomish Battle Cloak AND a Weighted Cloak, using your cloaks to serve simultaneously as weapon and shield, allowing you to keep your hands free to either make claw/slam attacks if you have them, or possibly hold a ranged weapon?

Greenish
2011-01-12, 12:03 PM
Could you enchant a Gnomish Battle Cloak with the Bashing enhancement from the DMG? Hmmmm...

I wonder, could you wield a Gnomish Battle Cloak AND a Weighted Cloak, using your cloaks to serve simultaneously as weapon and shield, allowing you to keep your hands free to either make claw/slam attacks if you have them, or possibly hold a ranged weapon?Gnomish Battle Cloak has to be set to your hand just like normal shields to claim the shield bonus. It works like a light shield, you can hold other things in the hand, but you can't attack with them.

Jornophelanthas
2011-01-12, 12:41 PM
If you're dual-wielding, you're quite liable to lose any buckler bonus when you use your buckler hand to attack.
This is what the feat "Improved Buckler Defense" solves.

Also, check out the Swashbuckler alternative class feature "Shield of Blades" from PHB2. It replaces the "Dodge" class feature, but only works in rounds when you do a full-round attack with two weapons. Does not require any magical equipment. Not sure if this is something for you, though.

Darrin
2011-01-12, 02:28 PM
It's because OA is 3.0 material, so a lot of people don't like using it.

The Dastana appeared in the Arms & Equipment Guide as well as OA. The Chahar-Aina only appears in OA.

Chahar-Aina is the oriental equivalent of a breastplate, which is probably why someone thought it required medium armor proficiency. It can only be worn on top of light armor, but there's nothing in the description to say it changes the armor category of the base armor.

OA did get a web errata update (available here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/er/er20021006a), I think), but for reasons beyond the reckoning of mere mortals, it's not nearly as complete as the OA 3.5 update published in Dragon #318. The Web Update doesn't contain the racial changes (Hengeyokai lose the LA +1, Vanara lose their ability score adjustments) or price changes for magic items (Kimono of Storing increased to 20K, Wondrous Writing Set knocked down to a +5 competence bonus).

Which means if your DM recognizes the web errata but refuses to allow the update from Dragon #318, Vanara become the ultimate ubercaster race (Str -2, Int +2, Wis +2), Kimono of Storing only costs 4400 GP, and the Wondrous Writing Set gives a +10 untyped bonus on Forgery checks.

So... a Vanara Cloistered Cleric + City Slicker (named "Sun Wukong") could probably do a lot of damage in his campaign...

Smeggedoff
2011-01-12, 02:29 PM
You need a +3 shield, so 9k. Animated is +2, and you can only add it on already magic items.

No when I said custom shield item I mean a Wondrous Item with a continuous /use activated "Shield" spell. According to the DMG would cost caster level (1) x spell level (1) x 2000 x 2(as the spell duration is measured in minutes) so 4000.
Though that may be the base price so probably 8k, hrrm.

Do you still get the AC bonus from a beetle bucker when it's flying around? I got the impression you'd be trading the AC for the deflect arrows function.

The gnomish battle cloak is cool, but as pointed out requires a free hand.

Now improved buckler defence could work, but I assume it requires a shield proficiency and I'm not sure I can afford two feats really.

true_shinken
2011-01-12, 05:32 PM
At the end, 75k gets you a whopping +21 armor AC on chain shirt. (+5 from each, +1,+1,+4)
Enhancement bonus from dastana/chahar-aina/armor don't stack. It's stated in the OA update, IIRC.

Darrin
2011-01-12, 06:01 PM
Enhancement bonus from dastana/chahar-aina/armor don't stack. It's stated in the OA update, IIRC.

Nope. It's in the OA FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/OrientalAdventuresFAQ040403.zip). Probably from a Sage ruling originally printed in Dragon.

MeeposFire
2011-01-12, 06:56 PM
This is what the feat "Improved Buckler Defense" solves.

Also, check out the Swashbuckler alternative class feature "Shield of Blades" from PHB2. It replaces the "Dodge" class feature, but only works in rounds when you do a full-round attack with two weapons. Does not require any magical equipment. Not sure if this is something for you, though.

You have to be proficient in buckler to use that which ruins the point as that now makes two feats to pick up.

Also if you are a swordsage you lose out on your wis bonus to AC if you wear any buckler prof or not. Your wisdom bonus will be close to what you get from a buckler. That's why shieldless is important. Now you could go multiple defender weapons if it is allowed. For instance spiked gauntlets, spiked armor, and possibly an off hand weapon with all these defender with nice enhancement bonuses you can get huge AC. Makes bucklers better to since it allows for a buckler axe with the defender property as well.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-01-12, 07:24 PM
Nope. It's in the OA FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/OrientalAdventuresFAQ040403.zip). Probably from a Sage ruling originally printed in Dragon.

They are bonuses of the same type (enhancement bonuses), and therefore do not stack.

However, you can get enhancement equivalents on them for significantly reduced price.

MeeposFire
2011-01-12, 07:38 PM
It gets confused because both shields and armor both use enhancement bonuses but they do stack. I look at it as shield enhancement bonus and armor enhancement bonus. You can get a lot of cheap bonuses by combining your armor+dastana+Chahar-Aina+bracer of defense (Arms and equipment guide says you can enchant them as armor). Include a buckler and possibly a second buckler (with a +5 enchantment and sacred so it can boost your saves) and you got the defensive package on top of defensive weapons.

ericgrau
2011-01-12, 07:41 PM
If 8.5k is too pricey I'd say you're out of luck on any fair item. But that's almost the same price as an animated shield. You'll just have to wait until you reach the same level when you'd buy an animated shield. IMO a ring of lesser shield with +1 shield AC would be fair at 1/4th the price (1/2 x 1/2), or 2,125 gp. You could try to run that by your DM. Also try a ring of protection, amulet of natural armor and dusty rose prism ioun stone if you haven't already.

mobdrazhar
2011-01-12, 07:45 PM
get the shield spell from a Wizard/Sorcerer... with via lvl dip or wand

ericgrau
2011-01-12, 07:47 PM
Or ask the DM for a custom 1/day item for 360 gp (or twice that for 2/day, etc.). A no BAB low HP level dip is painful unless the OP plans on using a lot of other wands too. But the problem with the shield spell itself, via spell or activated item, is it eats a precious action and the OP may or may not have a buffing round.

EDIT: Enhancement bonuses don't apply directly to AC. They apply to shield, armor or natural armor, so they stack with the mundane AC and eachother since the total shield, armor and natural armor ACs stack with eachother. You could have armor, a shield and natural armor and an enhancement bonus on all 3 and everything would stack. Or, for example, you might have +4 bracers of armor and +2 studded leather (3+2=5 AC) and your armor AC bonus would be only 5 since you get the higher of the two total armor bonuses.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-01-12, 07:48 PM
It gets confused because both shields and armor both use enhancement bonuses but they do stack. I look at it as shield enhancement bonus and armor enhancement bonus. You can get a lot of cheap bonuses by combining your armor+dastana+Chahar-Aina+bracer of defense (Arms and equipment guide says you can enchant them as armor). Include a buckler and possibly a second buckler (with a +5 enchantment and sacred so it can boost your saves) and you got the defensive package on top of defensive weapons.

There's a difference between an enhancement bonus to armor bonus and an enhancement bonus to your shield bonus. Both Destana and Chahar-Aina give a bonus to armor, thus any enhancement bonii are enhancement applied to armor, and do not stack with each other, or any bonuses on the armor itself.

MeeposFire
2011-01-12, 07:58 PM
When I was talking about the complete package I was talking about the extra stuff not AC you could get. For instance my dastana having heavy fortification and my Chahar-Aina having exalted, and by bracers soulfire. I already know that armor and shield are separate which is why I like to make it more clear by saying armor enhancement bonus and shield enhancement bonus rather than enhancement bonus on a specific item.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-01-12, 08:06 PM
When I was talking about the complete package I was talking about the extra stuff not AC you could get. For instance my dastana having heavy fortification and my Chahar-Aina having exalted, and by bracers soulfire. I already know that armor and shield are separate which is why I like to make it more clear by saying armor enhancement bonus and shield enhancement bonus rather than enhancement bonus on a specific item.

Yea, you can easily pull that off. Have the Destana of Heavy Fort, then put Ghost Touch on the armor, and something else on the other one. Gives you the ability to spread out those bonus-equivalents so it doesn't cost you a not-so-small mountain of gold to buy it all.

It's just the raw numbers that don't stack, so you don't need to get more than a +1 on them.

MeeposFire
2011-01-12, 08:22 PM
Yes I do acknowledge the point that you do not get extra AC from the enhancements from dastana and the like. Unfortunately there is no way as far as I know to get out of that worthless extra cost for the +1 enhancement bonus on these items. You could apply sacred on the dastana. On a swordsage it would be worth it. Chain shirt+5+whatever and then dastana+whatever+sacred and apply whatever enhancement bonus on it to your saves.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-01-12, 08:50 PM
Yes I do acknowledge the point that you do not get extra AC from the enhancements from dastana and the like. Unfortunately there is no way as far as I know to get out of that worthless extra cost for the +1 enhancement bonus on these items. You could apply sacred on the dastana. On a swordsage it would be worth it. Chain shirt+5+whatever and then dastana+whatever+sacred and apply whatever enhancement bonus on it to your saves.

Only put a +1 on anything in general, Magic Vestments will save you millions of gp.

Siosilvar
2011-01-12, 09:10 PM
No when I said custom shield item I mean a Wondrous Item with a continuous /use activated "Shield" spell. According to the DMG would cost caster level (1) x spell level (1) x 2000 x 2(as the spell duration is measured in minutes) so 4000.
Though that may be the base price so probably 8k, hrrm.

No. +4 armor/shield AC is worth 16,000gp, no matter how you go about it.

Armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared 1,000 gp

And since shield AC is effectively the same as armor AC, it's reasonable to allow the same price.

When creating magic items, you pay for what you get first before you move to the spell pricing.


Behind the Curtain: Magic Item Gold Piece Values
...match the new item to an item priced in this chapter and use its price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table 7-33: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-01-12, 11:58 PM
No. +4 armor/shield AC is worth 16,000gp, no matter how you go about it.

Armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared 1,000 gp

And since shield AC is effectively the same as armor AC, it's reasonable to allow the same price.

When creating magic items, you pay for what you get first before you move to the spell pricing.

You will also have to tack on either an Uncustomary Space Limitation or No Space Limitation charge on top of that for either 1.5x or 2x the price, since the item granting the shield bonus is not, in fact, a shield.

Also, as the Ring of Force Shield is 8.5k, for only a +2, it's probably using a different formula than bonus squared x 1k.

Smeggedoff
2011-01-13, 02:45 AM
Enhancement bonus from dastana/chahar-aina/armor don't stack. It's stated in the OA update, IIRC.

Good to know, thanks Shinken



Also if you are a swordsage you lose out on your wis bonus to AC if you wear any buckler prof or not. Your wisdom bonus will be close to what you get from a buckler. That's why shieldless is important. Now you could go multiple defender weapons if it is allowed. For instance spiked gauntlets, spiked armor, and possibly an off hand weapon with all these defender with nice enhancement bonuses you can get huge AC. Makes bucklers better to since it allows for a buckler axe with the defender property as well.

Really? nuts, that rules out the beetle buckler too then, such a fun little item.


If 8.5k is too pricey I'd say you're out of luck on any fair item. But that's almost the same price as an animated shield. You'll just have to wait until you reach the same level when you'd buy an animated shield. IMO a ring of lesser shield with +1 shield AC would be fair at 1/4th the price (1/2 x 1/2), or 2,125 gp. You could try to run that by your DM. Also try a ring of protection, amulet of natural armor and dusty rose prism ioun stone if you haven't already.

I was being a bit hasty there I think, especially with the Magic item creation rules I was corrected on below.
However since it counts as all intents and purposes, like a shield that causes no encumbrance etc. Would this trip the no shield clause that loses a Swordsage their Wis bonus?


get the shield spell from a Wizard/Sorcerer... with via lvl dip or wand
A valid suggestion, but not really for me thanks ;^_^


Yes I do acknowledge the point that you do not get extra AC from the enhancements from dastana and the like. Unfortunately there is no way as far as I know to get out of that worthless extra cost for the +1 enhancement bonus on these items. You could apply sacred on the dastana. On a swordsage it would be worth it. Chain shirt+5+whatever and then dastana+whatever+sacred and apply whatever enhancement bonus on it to your saves.

Sacred? ooh, what's that do? not noticed it on my rounds.


No. +4 armor/shield AC is worth 16,000gp, no matter how you go about it.

Armor bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared 1,000 gp

And since shield AC is effectively the same as armor AC, it's reasonable to allow the same price.

When creating magic items, you pay for what you get first before you move to the spell pricing.

You will also have to tack on either an Uncustomary Space Limitation or No Space Limitation charge on top of that for either 1.5x or 2x the price, since the item granting the shield bonus is not, in fact, a shield.

Also, as the Ring of Force Shield is 8.5k, for only a +2, it's probably using a different formula than bonus squared x 1k.



Ok, thanks for the correction(s). I was just pricing it as a spell use item.

2xMachina
2011-01-13, 02:47 AM
A valid suggestion, but not really for me thanks ;^_^



Arcane Swordsage :smallwink:

Smeggedoff
2011-01-13, 03:36 AM
Arcane Swordsage :smallwink:

But, but I like shadow hand with the bamf and the over-the-top technique names *puppy dog eyes*
plus we've got a character starting a truenamer using Kyeudo's fix so the DM does NOT need the extra paperwork right now

MeeposFire
2011-01-13, 05:03 AM
Sacred is in the Book of Exalted Deeds and assuming I remembered the name correctly allows you to transfer (similar to a defending weapon) a shields (and I think it works with armor) enhancement bonus as a sacred bonus to saves. This allows things like double shield builds to gain an advantage.

Example a +4 sacred shield could grant you up to a +4 sacred bonus to saves with a corresponding reduction in AC bonus.

HyperionSanctum
2011-01-13, 06:13 AM
taking a lvl of a Psionics class and having the power Force Screen

Psyren
2011-01-13, 06:25 AM
taking a lvl of a Psionics class and having the power Force Screen

While this will work, 1 min per casting is a tad on the short side

JBento
2011-01-13, 06:41 AM
Remember that, since WotC doesn't know a thesaurus is (or possibly believe it's a dinosaur with higher education), what enhancement boni affect depends on their specific wording.

Regular armours and shields have enhancement boni which enhance the armour - that +3 fullplate has a +3 enhancement bonus, but it's not directly to your AC. Instead, the fullplate instead grants a +11 armour bonus to AC, not a +8 armour bonus and a +3 enhancement bonus.

Stuff like a beetle buckler, for instance, specifically says that it grants a +1 enhancement bonus to your AC. Therefore, a +5 beetle buckler grants you an AC increase of 7 - a +6 shield bonus and a +1 enhancement bonus.

HyperionSanctum
2011-01-13, 07:12 AM
What's the best way to get a Shield bonus to AC if you don't have a shield proficiency?
I mean I've seen two-weapon defense but that's it.

And I figger for 4000 gold you can make an all day Item of Shield by the DMG's item creation rules, but custom items is custom items and not really a feasible thing to rely on when DM's are involved.

Are there any decent magic items that give such a bonus?

already posted taking a lvl of something psionic... but what class are you interested in taking?
if you wanted to tank as a caster, Wilder can be awfully fun

2xMachina
2011-01-13, 07:38 AM
But, but I like shadow hand with the bamf and the over-the-top technique names *puppy dog eyes*
plus we've got a character starting a truenamer using Kyeudo's fix so the DM does NOT need the extra paperwork right now

Homebrew a maneuver like shield? Boost, 1round/2IL seems about balanced.


Remember that, since WotC doesn't know a thesaurus is (or possibly believe it's a dinosaur with higher education), what enhancement boni affect depends on their specific wording.

Regular armours and shields have enhancement boni which enhance the armour - that +3 fullplate has a +3 enhancement bonus, but it's not directly to your AC. Instead, the fullplate instead grants a +11 armour bonus to AC, not a +8 armour bonus and a +3 enhancement bonus.

Stuff like a beetle buckler, for instance, specifically says that it grants a +1 enhancement bonus to your AC. Therefore, a +5 beetle buckler grants you an AC increase of 7 - a +6 shield bonus and a +1 enhancement bonus.

I take this stance too. Using this, +5 Dastana and Cha-whatsitsname bonuses will stack with normal armor.

true_shinken
2011-01-13, 08:42 AM
Homebrew a maneuver like shield? Boost, 1round/2IL seems about balanced.
*cough*Shield Block*cough*
*cough*Wall of Blades*cough*

Smeggedoff
2011-01-14, 02:37 AM
already posted taking a lvl of something psionic... but what class are you interested in taking?
if you wanted to tank as a caster, Wilder can be awfully fun

For this build, I don't really want to take a level in much apart from Swordsage.
Though my DM did makes some houserules to Soulknife...
Honestly I don't know much about psionics, the biggest draw for the whole thing is the psicrystal cos I'm a sucker for shiny things


Homebrew a maneuver like shield? Boost, 1round/2IL seems about balanced.

While it would be easy, Homebrew's a bit of a sore subject atm.


*cough*Shield Block*cough*
*cough*Wall of Blades*cough*
Thank Shinken, I'll take a look at these
*walks away mumbling about having enough trouble fitting tiger claw TWF manuevers into the build*

As an aside maybe I should edit the original post and keep track of this stuff so it's useful for other people...

ericgrau
2011-01-14, 02:40 AM
I was being a bit hasty there I think, especially with the Magic item creation rules I was corrected on below.
However since it counts as all intensive purposes, like a shield that causes no encumbrance etc. Would this trip the no shield clause that loses a Swordsage theit Wis bonus?

Oh, I didn't realize they have that. Yes, yes it would. Even a ring of force shield screws the no shield clause for wis to AC.

Smeggedoff
2011-01-14, 03:05 AM
Good to know.
sort of ^_^

DwarfFighter
2011-01-14, 03:36 AM
Also try a ring of protection, amulet of natural armor and dusty rose prism ioun stone if you haven't already.

Since Ring of Protection provides a Shield bonus to AC, I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned before post #38. :)

If you don't want to spend a ring slot on the item, negotiate with theGM. I'm sure he'll accept Monocle or Ascot of Protection at +50% of the cost of the ring.

-DF

Smeggedoff
2011-01-14, 03:44 AM
Since Ring of Protection provides a Shield bonus to AC, I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned before post #38. :)

If you don't want to spend a ring slot on the item, negotiate with theGM. I'm sure he'll accept Monocle or Ascot of Protection at +50% of the cost of the ring.

-DF

Deflection bonus according to the SRD.

Going back to the Gnomish Battle Cloak.
Does this count as a shield for the Wisdom AC clause?
If not an animated armoured cloak sounds pretty badass.

Thurbane
2011-01-14, 05:35 AM
However since it counts as all intensive purposes, like a shield that causes no encumbrance etc. Would this trip the no shield clause that loses a Swordsage theit Wis bonus?
Sorry to be a pedant, but for the record, the expression is "for all intents and purposes" not "for all intensive purposes"...

Smeggedoff
2011-01-14, 05:49 AM
Sorry to be a pedant, but for the record, the expression is "for all intents and purposes" not "for all intensive purposes"...

Cheerfully edited