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Loki Eremes
2011-01-15, 05:55 PM
I have 2 questions.

1- Iaijutsu Focus (skill): Is this a skill that use a kind of action? (standar, move, swift, free?) As it appears on page 58 or OA isnt stated that uses any, but i wanna be sure.

2- Know any feat or way to sheath your weapon quicker than a move action? (like an inverse quick draw) or at least a way to not provoke AoO when doing it?

Greenish
2011-01-15, 06:06 PM
1. IF doesn't require an action by itself, but is a part of another action (that is, drawing the weapon and attacking).

2. Good ol' Gnomish Quickrazor is the classic method. A Spare Hand (MoE) powered with 1st level infusion can draw or sheathe a weapon (or other item) as a free action once per round. An Unseen Servant can use it's own actions to sheathe your weapon.

Loki Eremes
2011-01-15, 06:38 PM
1. IF doesn't require an action by itself, but is a part of another action (that is, drawing the weapon and attacking).

2. Good ol' Gnomish Quickrazor is the classic method. A Spare Hand (MoE) powered with 1st level infusion can draw or sheathe a weapon (or other item) as a free action once per round. An Unseen Servant can use it's own actions to sheathe your weapon.

1.
Thanks

2.
-Quickrazor is a weapon? where do i find it?
-Spare Hand is a magic item? Which infusion?


Im preparing a 2 hande
d katana/wakizashi wielding samurai and i want to abuse from Iaijutsu focus. Thats why if Gnomish Quickrazor is a weapon it wont help me with the build.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-01-15, 07:00 PM
Gnomish Quickrazor is an exotic weapon found in races of stone, it let's you sheath (and maybe draw I am not sure) it as a free action between attacks.

Third arm is a magic item from Magic of Eberron and I think MIC, infusions are the "spells" used by the artificer class, a lenient DM might let you substitute the infusion requirement with actual spells.

The normal way to abuse Iajutsu focus is to use the Quickrazors to allow full round attacks with Iajutsu focus damage on each attack.

Bang!
2011-01-15, 07:08 PM
The normal way to abuse Iajutsu focus is to use the Quickrazors to allow full round attacks with Iajutsu focus damage on each attack.
I don't want to drag this too far from the OP, but I see this all the time, especially in Factotum builds.

How do players reliably catch targets flat-footed?

Underfoot Combat is the only thing I can think of to tag enemies with flat-footed and allow full attacks, and that seems to be pretty rare outside Killer Gnome spinoff builds.

[Unless all the Factotum threads count on 1) beating enemy initiative, 2) burning lots of IP for extra actions and 3) ending the fight with 1 round's Iajitsu-fueled attack, plus the couple extra attacks the remaining IP can afford.]

Greenish
2011-01-15, 07:16 PM
How do players reliably catch targets flat-footed?Surprise round, winning initiative, grease/marbles, blurstrike weapon (only good for 1 attack/round/weapon), a couple of ToB maneuvers, Armour Lock and probably a few other spells. A dip into watchimacallit avenger PrC for an intimidate-using factotum might work wonders, too.

It's hardly a factotum's only combat option, so if it's not working, do something else.

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-15, 07:52 PM
They cast Grease because no one has 5 ranks in Balance.

Loki Eremes
2011-01-15, 08:29 PM
Surprise round, winning initiative, grease/marbles, blurstrike weapon (only good for 1 attack/round/weapon), a couple of ToB maneuvers, Armour Lock and probably a few other spells. A dip into watchimacallit avenger PrC for an intimidate-using factotum might work wonders, too.

It's hardly a factotum's only combat option, so if it's not working, do something else.


Theres the Skill Trick called Acorbatic Backstab from Complete Scoundrel. 1 per min but its another option for the Flat Foot technique.



They cast Grease because no one has 5 ranks in Balance.


xDD

Prime32
2011-01-15, 08:39 PM
2- Know any feat or way to sheath your weapon quicker than a move action? (like an inverse quick draw) or at least a way to not provoke AoO when doing it?Connect your weapon to your arm by a chain, and drop it?

Otherwise, the only mechanic I've ever seen related to putting things away is part of a Tome feat (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Combat_Looting_%283.5e_Feat%29).

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-15, 08:57 PM
you can use a glove of storing or (better yet) Glove of The Master Strategist (which acts like a glove of storing, and allows true strike 1/day)

This permits you to "sheathe" a weapon. In a manner of speaking.

Glove of Storing: 10,000 gp

Glove of the Master Strategist: 3,600 gp (yep, is better and cheaper!)

Glove of the Master Strategist is from Ghostwalk campaign setting, which was updated to 3.5

Greenish
2011-01-15, 09:10 PM
Connect your weapon to your arm by a chain, and drop it?

you can use a glove of storing or (better yet) Glove of The Master Strategist (which acts like a glove of storing, and allows true strike 1/day)Neither of those is actually sheathing the weapon, which is what IF requires.

JaronK
2011-01-16, 12:16 AM
The easiest ways for Factotums to do it are Grease or Marbles (because around 1% of monsters actually have 5+ ranks in balance), winning initiative (it's an Int and Dex based class that gets Int to initiative), blurstriking weapons (10 rounds per day but that's usually enough with the other options), and the Sapphire Nightmare Blade maneuver. Other tricks involve various skill tricks and spells, but those first few get the job done nicely.

JaronK

Xuc Xac
2011-01-16, 12:42 AM
I don't want to drag this too far from the OP, but I see this all the time, especially in Factotum builds.

How do players reliably catch targets flat-footed?

I'd be more curious to know where they keep finding all these Lawful Stupid GMs who say "Rules are rules, no matter how dumb" and let them play such twisted things.

Loki Eremes
2011-01-16, 12:58 AM
The easiest ways for Factotums to do it are Grease or Marbles (because around 1% of monsters actually have 5+ ranks in balance), winning initiative (it's an Int and Dex based class that gets Int to initiative), blurstriking weapons (10 rounds per day but that's usually enough with the other options), and the Sapphire Nightmare Blade maneuver. Other tricks involve various skill tricks and spells, but those first few get the job done nicely.

JaronK



Those are not bad ideas. Problem is this is a lawfull good character and a Samurai on top of that, so i think grease and marbles are a bit to "dirty".

Winning initiative is not that difficult either, but its only the first round and then it works no more.

Maneuvers are out of question, sry, no ToB for this PC.

Greenish
2011-01-16, 01:01 AM
I'd be more curious to know where they keep finding all these Lawful Stupid GMs who say "Rules are rules, no matter how dumb" and let them play such twisted things.…Because everyone who doesn't play like you is stupid. Obviously.

Xuc Xac
2011-01-16, 01:54 AM
…Because everyone who doesn't play like you is stupid. Obviously.

Iaijutsu Focus is supposed to represent the dueling scenes in countless samurai movies where getting sliced from shoulder to crotch with a katana is fatal because no one has "hit points". It's a special workaround to the problem of having duels decided by one swing in a system with hit points designed to prolong combats.

Constantly re-sheathing and re-drawing your sword because the letter of the rules give you a bonus on a strike immediately after drawing it is just stupid. It's like lighting yourself on fire because the penalty for fighting while on fire is less than the penalty for fighting in the dark.

JaronK
2011-01-16, 02:03 AM
Those are not bad ideas. Problem is this is a lawfull good character and a Samurai on top of that, so i think grease and marbles are a bit to "dirty".

And stabbing them before they can move isn't?


Winning initiative is not that difficult either, but its only the first round and then it works no more.

Samurai in D&D focus on intimidation. Keeping with the Factotum idea for the moment, consider something like Factotum 8/Iajuitsu Master 10 (shame about the lack of ToB, Warblades make GREAT Samurai). Use Imperious Command. In the surprise round, draw your Katana and hit them. In the first combat round, hold the Katana in your off hand (so you still get the Int to AC from Iajuitsu Master) while you repeatedly strike with your Quickrazor, then use your extra standard action to Intimidate them and make them Cower. Use Never Outnumbered to hit everyone around you with this. They thus cannot act, so they're still flat footed. Strike again next round. If your party can't kill people in three rounds without the enemy acting at all, you're pretty screwed anyway.

And lighting yourself on fire is a standard Binder low level tactic.

JaronK

Prime32
2011-01-16, 07:50 AM
Iaijutsu Focus is supposed to represent the dueling scenes in countless samurai movies where getting sliced from shoulder to crotch with a katana is fatal because no one has "hit points". It's a special workaround to the problem of having duels decided by one swing in a system with hit points designed to prolong combats.

Constantly re-sheathing and re-drawing your sword because the letter of the rules give you a bonus on a strike immediately after drawing it is just stupid. It's like lighting yourself on fire because the penalty for fighting while on fire is less than the penalty for fighting in the dark....I've seen "constantly re-sheathing and re-drawing your sword" all the time in depictions of samurai. Not in realistic depctions, but it seems to be the only form of iaijutsu used in most fantasy works. And D&D is fantasy.

And if I saw a guy light himself on fire so he could fight in the dark I wouldn't think "that guy is a munchkin". I'd think "that guy is hardcore".
Also: http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/4p15

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-16, 10:02 AM
Iaijutsu is the art of drawing your sword, attacking, then sheathing it again.

There is no problem here. Just your incomplete understanding of what Iaijutsu is.

The-Mage-King
2011-01-16, 10:07 AM
It's like lighting yourself on fire because the penalty for fighting while on fire is less than the penalty for fighting in the dark.

Good idea, actually.

It's only 1d6 points of damage a round, after all.

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-16, 10:08 AM
Just wear a Ring of Fire Resistance. The weakest gives 10 fire resistance. That is, immunity to mundane fire.

Go nuts.

Xuc Xac
2011-01-16, 10:30 AM
Iaijutsu is the art of drawing your sword, attacking, then sheathing it again.

There is no problem here. Just your incomplete understanding of what Iaijutsu is.

Actually, that's iaido, a martial art practiced as an art form rather than a combat skill. The sword isn't sheathed again to prepare for another strike. It's sheathed again because the kata is finished after that one strike. It's done as part of a practice routine. In a real fight, the samurai wouldn't put the sword away after one strike if he wasn't finished fighting. Iaijutsu is the skill of making the act of drawing a sword into a deadly act in order to minimize the delay between choosing to strike and striking. Most of the techniques are based on the idea that you will be starting from a sitting position and not dressed for battle, because it was a skill for day to day defense. On a battlefield, you'd be wearing armor and you'd have a weapon ready in hand long before an enemy got within sword range. Iaijutsu strikes are still inferior to striking from a ready position. The purpose of iaijutsu is to minimize the penalties of striking from an unready position.

Xuc Xac
2011-01-16, 10:37 AM
Just wear a Ring of Fire Resistance. The weakest gives 10 fire resistance. That is, immunity to mundane fire.

Go nuts.

That would certainly be more intimidating than Edward "Blackbeard" Teach's technique of sticking lit matches in his beard.

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-16, 11:08 AM
"Jutsu" and "do" are somewhat interchangeable. The skill in D&D means both. :smalltongue:

Prime32
2011-01-16, 11:11 AM
"Jutsu" and "do" are somewhat interchangeable. The skill in D&D means both. :smalltongue:"Jutsu" = technique(s)
"Do" = way

"Do" are the modern, formalised versions of various jutsu. For instance, kenjutsu meant any kind of swordfighting. Kendo is a sport similar to fencing.

Loki Eremes
2011-01-16, 04:01 PM
And stabbing them before they can move isn't?



Samurai in D&D focus on intimidation. Keeping with the Factotum idea for the moment, consider something like Factotum 8/Iajuitsu Master 10 (shame about the lack of ToB, Warblades make GREAT Samurai). Use Imperious Command. In the surprise round, draw your Katana and hit them. In the first combat round, hold the Katana in your off hand (so you still get the Int to AC from Iajuitsu Master) while you repeatedly strike with your Quickrazor, then use your extra standard action to Intimidate them and make them Cower. Use Never Outnumbered to hit everyone around you with this. They thus cannot act, so they're still flat footed. Strike again next round. If your party can't kill people in three rounds without the enemy acting at all, you're pretty screwed anyway.


And lighting yourself on fire is a standard Binder low level tactic.

JaronK


Intimidating is a great idea and so is Impervious Command feat (which combined with Marshal aura will be pretty effective)


I really dont get the point of Factotum. The only good thing about it are Skill points. I simply cant see how that class is a good combination with Iaijutsu master. Having a Standar action is great but not when you pay for it and will obtain only one per encounter considering Inspiration points system (which i think it sucks), not to mention you need 8 lvls on this class for that.

Please, explain how Factotum is a great class anyway.
Cunning strike, cunning insight, cunning knowledge & cunning knowledge. They all work with inspiration points and that means you wont be using all of them until your lvl is high enought.


I repeat, PLEASE explain me how Factotum + Iaijutsu master is a great combination.:smallconfused:





----------------------------------------

JKTrickster
2011-01-16, 04:39 PM
Well you're entire concept is based on two SKILLS anyway: Intimidate and Iaijutsu Focus. Being a skill monkey that can excel at both is pretty invaluable. Besides, Factotum is the only class that has both (besides the Samurai :smallsigh:) so that's important for skill ranks, etc.

And the Factotum means that while you're NOT being a Iaijutsu Focus slashing Samurai you can be the diplomatic, courteous Cout Samurai for those social occasions. You know, basically for all the other time NOT spent in combat.

It's not that Factotum automatically synergies well with Iaijutsu Master. It's that while it works well with Iaijutsu Master, you're leave PLENTY of room to do any OTHER stuff that isn't directly related to Iaijutsu striking things down.

And besides, it's the Factotum. Since when does "I can do everything" not seem likeable?

EDIT: Also Factotums add Int mod to their Initiative checks IIRC so that's useful when you want to go first pretty badly.

Prime32
2011-01-16, 04:45 PM
The Font of Inspiration (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606) feat gives you extra Inspiration Points, and gets better the more times you take it.

Here's a handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720)

Psyren
2011-01-16, 06:17 PM
Constantly re-sheathing and re-drawing your sword because the letter of the rules give you a bonus on a strike immediately after drawing it is just stupid.

How about you go find us incontrovertible proof that Iaijutsu explicitly does NOT work with a Gnomish Quickrazor and come back. Or don't

JaronK
2011-01-17, 01:42 AM
I really dont get the point of Factotum. The only good thing about it are Skill points. I simply cant see how that class is a good combination with Iaijutsu master. Having a Standar action is great but not when you pay for it and will obtain only one per encounter considering Inspiration points system (which i think it sucks), not to mention you need 8 lvls on this class for that.

A class that gives Int to initiative (along with a lot of other Int synergy) and extra standard actions (quite a few with Font of Inspiration) combined with a class that gives Int to AC and can eventually do 18d6+18*Cha mod damage with a standard action if the target is flat footed, and you don't see the point?

Note also that those points refresh at the end of every encounter, so you can do use those abilities quite a bit. You also get enough magic to be helpful, even if you weren't planning to use grease that much.

JaronK

Loki Eremes
2011-01-17, 08:07 AM
A class that gives Int to initiative (along with a lot of other Int synergy) and extra standard actions (quite a few with Font of Inspiration) combined with a class that gives Int to AC and can eventually do 18d6+18*Cha mod damage with a standard action if the target is flat footed, and you don't see the point?

Note also that those points refresh at the end of every encounter, so you can do use those abilities quite a bit. You also get enough magic to be helpful, even if you weren't planning to use grease that much.

JaronK


o-O ive got to ask.....how can you deal 18d6 from Iaijutsu if the maximum is 9d6???

Psyren
2011-01-17, 11:09 AM
o-O ive got to ask.....how can you deal 18d6 from Iaijutsu if the maximum is 9d6???

Iaijutsu and Sneak Attack stack. If the target is flat-footed, they are usually also denied their Dex bonus to AC, making them valid targets for both.

true_shinken
2011-01-17, 11:14 AM
Samurai in D&D focus on intimidation.
Just CW Samurai, actually. We should never talk about those.


Iaijutsu and Sneak Attack stack. If the target is flat-footed, they are usually also denied their Dex bonus to AC, making them valid targets for both.
He's talking about 18d6 iaijutsu focus damage, though. Notice how Lightning Blade only affects Iaijutsu Focus dice and he has 18xCha there.


Iaijutsu is the art of drawing your sword, attacking, then sheathing it again.

Actually, the art of sheathing is called noutoujutsu.

Greenish
2011-01-17, 11:16 AM
Just CW Samurai, actually. We should never talk about those.OA samurai isn't brilliant, either. At least CW samurai has one trick.

true_shinken
2011-01-17, 11:18 AM
OA samurai isn't brilliant, either. At least CW samurai has one trick.
By the time OA was published, Iaijutsu Focus was the Samurai's (well, and the Sohei's) trick. I'm not even saying OA Samurai is good anyway; the OP just clearly wants a OA Samurai so talking about CW just doesn't seem relevant.

Psyren
2011-01-17, 11:19 AM
Just CW Samurai, actually. We should never talk about those.

I think that ability is cool. They could have done without all the TWF nonsense (seriously, when did dual-wielding become the samurai niche?) but at least they got something besides "Ancestral Weapon + Prepackaged Turkey Bonus Feats."

Xuc Xac
2011-01-17, 11:55 AM
(seriously, when did dual-wielding become the samurai niche?)

I think the evolution went something like this: "Samurai are cool! Let's do some research. Hey, this Musashi guy seems to be the most bad ass samurai of all! And he was famous for doing some stuff with two swords... Samurai use two swords all the time!"

Of course, things were never that one-dimensional. Musashi was also really famous for winning a sword duel with a boat oar that he cut down into a bokken, so we could have just as easily ended up with a Samurai class whose one trick was using a short staff like a bastard sword. (I wonder what the samurai class would look like if they had latched onto the fact that Musashi advocated using a musket as the best ranged weapon...)

Prime32
2011-01-17, 11:57 AM
(I wonder what the samurai class would look like if they had latched onto the fact that Musashi advocated using a musket as the best ranged weapon...)IIRC he said the gun was the best weapon, period, and while he went on about using the right weapons in the right places (use polearms on open ground and swords in tight spaces) you should use a gun whenever possible.

...then drop the gun and charge using the smoke as cover, since it takes too long to reload. But if you find a gun lying on the ground, take it.

Fastmover
2011-01-17, 12:03 PM
Something I thought was awesome.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134276

2xMachina
2011-01-17, 12:15 PM
IIRC he said the gun was the best weapon, period, and while he went on about using the right weapons in the right places (use polearms on open ground and swords in tight spaces) you should use a gun whenever possible.

...then drop the gun and charge using the smoke as cover, since it takes too long to reload. But if you find a gun lying on the ground, take it.

Smart guy.

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-17, 01:04 PM
Smart guy.

He wrote one of the most famous books on tactics in the world (Book of Five Rings). Yes, he was a smart guy.

JaronK
2011-01-19, 02:29 AM
o-O ive got to ask.....how can you deal 18d6 from Iaijutsu if the maximum is 9d6???

Iajuitsu Master 10 gives the ability to make two attacks as a standard action, with the second doing exactly what the first did. Thus, 18d6... 9 from the first hit, 9 from the second. I wasn't counting sneak attack as the Factotum's sneak attack ability is useless compared to Cunning Surge (except as a possible prerequisite qualifier).

JaronK

Greenish
2011-01-19, 02:47 AM
Iajuitsu Master 10 gives the ability to make two attacks as a standard actionThat's level 8. Level 10 gives you a free surprise round if you start the combat in melee range of an enemy.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-19, 03:07 AM
If it was really going to be mangaish, the Iajitsu should include a flashing wave shaped like a fan that swings out and cuts things in an arc for no apparent reason.

Geddoe
2011-01-19, 05:17 AM
The normal way to abuse Iajutsu focus is to use the Quickrazors to allow full round attacks with Iajutsu focus damage on each attack.

You don't actually need to sheathe between each attack. You can draw 1 katana/axe/scimitar/whatever in the round, and attack as many times as you are able. The rules for in-combat use is that the weapon is drawn the same round and the opponent is flat-footed. Whatever you have done between the draw and the attack(including other attacks) does not matter as long as it is within one round.

People just like Quickrazors because they don't read the full rules and think you need to draw before each attack.


Constantly re-sheathing and re-drawing your sword because the letter of the rules give you a bonus on a strike immediately after drawing it is just stupid.

The letter of the rules only require drawing once per round to get as many iaijutsu focus attacks as you can muster out.

IF + Avalanche of Blades or Time Stands Still = craziness.

true_shinken
2011-01-19, 07:38 AM
People just like Quickrazors because they don't read the full rules and think you need to draw before each attack.


Check: If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage, based on the result of an Iaijutsu Focus check.

Emphasis mine.

Yuki Akuma
2011-01-19, 07:49 AM
People just like Quickrazors because they don't read the full rules and think you need to draw before each attack.

The irony is almost painful...

Psyren
2011-01-19, 09:16 AM
The irony is almost painful...

It seems shinken cut him short while he was drawing his conclusion.

2xMachina
2011-01-19, 10:38 AM
Ah well, can't really hope the DM will interpret it like that. Rather than having to argue, might as well use the quickrazors. Don't need quickdraw either.

true_shinken
2011-01-19, 10:56 AM
It seems shinken cut him short while he was drawing his conclusion.
He does have somewhat of a point due to page 82 (iaijutsu strikes in normal combat), but he is still wrong.
You can use your Iaijutsu Focus bonus damage in normal
combat too, but only when you are attacking a flat-footed opponent and you draw your weapon in the same round you strike.
The text goes on and on about how you need Quick Draw to use it on a surprise round and doesn't mention full-attacks at all. This is just a clarification of the rules (i.e., you can't use Iaijutsu Focus with an already drawn weapon). Nowhere does it say the rules for a Iaijutsu Focus check don't apply and your second strike is not done immediately after drawing. Also, it goes completely against the fluff. It's a position not supported by RAW or RAI.

JaronK
2011-01-19, 12:32 PM
Eh, either interpretation is viable. There's no definition for "immediately" so that could mean "the next thing you do" or "within the given time frame." If I say I'm going to deposit my paycheck immediately after I get it, and then when it shows up in the mail I stop to clean some dishes before going to the bank and deposit it, I wasn't lying or speaking incorrectly.

And that page 82 quote does strongly suggest that "immediately" does mean "within this round."

I just use Quickrazors because it removes all arguments anyway, because I think Quickrazors are a really cool weapon to begin with, and because even if you do get all your attacks in a given round you still want to deal with the next round too. Plus it means I can use Assassin's Creed imagery for my character portraits.

JaronK

Loki Eremes
2011-01-19, 01:27 PM
Quickrazors are awesome weapons (not so the picture in the book tough xD) but the problem is, if you are not a gnome you ll need to expend 2 feats for it: Proficiency & Weapon finesse (assuming you dont have it as a class feature)

But leaving that aside, seems quickrazors are made for IF. I really dont imagine them very usefull for anything else.

JaronK
2011-01-19, 01:30 PM
A Feycraft Quickrazor means you don't need finesse, and that doesn't add too much to the cost.

As for their uses, having a free hand can be nice in campaigns where such things are kept track of. Plus in social campaigns having a hidden weapon that's always ready to roll can be quite cool.

JaronK

Loki Eremes
2011-01-19, 01:56 PM
A Feycraft Quickrazor means you don't need finesse, and that doesn't add too much to the cost.

oh, didnt know that



As for their uses, having a free hand can be nice in campaigns where such things are kept track of. Plus in social campaigns having a hidden weapon that's always ready to roll can be quite cool.

JaronK


yeah, i forgot +4 on sleight of hand and +2 bluff. :smallbiggrin:



One more thing. How does a Quickrazor works with the Two Weapon Fighting feat? do you necessarily need the two weapons in your hand (lets say katana + quickrazor) for it to work? or the quickrazor can be sheathed and then quickdraw it for the extra attacks granted by the feat?

true_shinken
2011-01-19, 02:05 PM
And that page 82 quote does strongly suggest that "immediately" does mean "within this round."
Except it does not mention full-attacks at all and it would go against iaijutsu fluff.
So... no.

JaronK
2011-01-19, 03:29 PM
oh, didnt know that

Check DMG 2. Feycraft is a wonderful thing to put on a weapon... it lowers the damage die (unimportant in most cases) and makes any light weapon use your dex to hit (just like Finesse). There's a few other options there.


One more thing. How does a Quickrazor works with the Two Weapon Fighting feat? do you necessarily need the two weapons in your hand (lets say katana + quickrazor) for it to work? or the quickrazor can be sheathed and then quickdraw it for the extra attacks granted by the feat?

You do need two weapons to attack with in a given turn, but I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here. You could TWF with any two weapons... Katana and Quickrazor would be perfectly acceptable. So would two Quickrazors, or Quickrazor and Armor Spikes.


Except it does not mention full-attacks at all and it would go against iaijutsu fluff.
So... no.

I don't see how it goes against the fluff... the Iajuitsu Master class even has an attack that hits twice before sheathing. I've seen plenty of movies around the concept that have multiple attacks between sheathings where the character was clearly supposed to be using Iaijuitsu. As I see it, the fluff is a guy who's constantly drawing his weapon, killing fools, and resheathing his weapon. If he's making a flash of quick strikes, there's nothing against the fluff there, so long as he's not holding the blade motionless and drawn for a bit.

And "use Iajuitsu Focus in combat" doesn't have to mention full attacks. Being in combat as a melee usually assumes full attacks are being made sometimes.

JaronK

Geddoe
2011-01-19, 03:41 PM
He does have somewhat of a point due to page 82 (iaijutsu strikes in normal combat), but he is still wrong.
The text goes on and on about how you need Quick Draw to use it on a surprise round and doesn't mention full-attacks at all. This is just a clarification of the rules (i.e., you can't use Iaijutsu Focus with an already drawn weapon). Nowhere does it say the rules for a Iaijutsu Focus check don't apply and your second strike is not done immediately after drawing. Also, it goes completely against the fluff. It's a position not supported by RAW or RAI.

It is fully supported by the RAW, you not liking it does not change that. It doesn't need to mention full attacks, the rule is the opponent is flatfooted and you have drawn your weapon in the same round.

The fluff is just fluff. All my attacks could fluffwise be 4(or more) simultaneous attacks. The rules on page 82 are how Iaijutsu Focus specifically works in normal combat. You have done your Iaijutsu check, it just applies the damage to each attack. It can be quite a bit of damage, but it is just damage(like a charging build).

It can also allow interesting things, like the Iaijutsu whirlwind attack.





Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma
The irony is almost painful...
It seems shinken cut him short while he was drawing his conclusion.

Looks like somebody else didn't read the rules for Iaijutsu in normal combat either.

true_shinken
2011-01-19, 03:53 PM
I don't see how it goes against the fluff...
Iaijutsu is the art of drawing and attacking in the same fluid motion. If you are not drawing, you're not using iaijutsu.
Check any iai master from videogames. They all sheathe their weapons between attacks.
Even in RL, we have nottoujutsu (the art of sheathing) for doing the exact same thing.

JaronK
2011-01-19, 03:59 PM
Iaijutsu is the art of drawing and attacking in the same fluid motion. If you are not drawing, you're not using iaijutsu.
Check any iai master from videogames. They all sheathe their weapons between attacks.
Even in RL, we have nottoujutsu (the art of sheathing) for doing the exact same thing.

Yet again, note that the IM's level 8 ability involves hitting an opponent twice after the draw, with both times dealing the IF damage.

For all we know, the Iajuitsu Master's full attack could be a single flowing strike that hits 4 times in some appropriately awesome way.

Meanwhile, here's the real thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE1ztcStQl4

Notice anything about the number of attacks?

JaronK

Geddoe
2011-01-19, 04:34 PM
Iaijutsu is the art of drawing and attacking in the same fluid motion. If you are not drawing, you're not using iaijutsu.
Check any iai master from videogames. They all sheathe their weapons between attacks.
Even in RL, we have nottoujutsu (the art of sheathing) for doing the exact same thing.

That is because iai masters in video games are very "confident". Nobody would really sheathe their weapon between each strike unless all their enemies are dead or the user is "confident"/invincible(where you can fight however you want because, hey, invincible). It makes more sense to draw once and keep it out until all enemies are dead.

Loki Eremes
2011-01-19, 05:55 PM
That is because iai masters in video games are very "confident". Nobody would really sheathe their weapon between each strike unless all their enemies are dead or the user is "confident"/invincible(where you can fight however you want because, hey, invincible). It makes more sense to draw once and keep it out until all enemies are dead.


I have to agree with him.
from anime/movies styles to real life theres a huge breach.
In anime and movies theres a bunch of actions in the name of "it's show time!". They look amazing but they are a of waste time, something precious in combat.

But D&D is closer to movies/anime than the real thing, and thats why is always difficult to apply real life examples.



"One strike, Two cuts"...

...remember this? :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W61lwKuu2Hs


One strike, nine cuts.
The only thing capable of blocking the Kuzu ryu sen and attacking at the same time, and its totally fictional & Fluffaristic.