The Dark Knight Rises (Villains and plot speculations)

[Jan Mattys]

Looks like we have the villains of the third Dark Knight Movie:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110120/ap_on_en_mo/us_film_batman_anne_hathaway

What do you think? Let the plot speculations begin!

[Darwin]

Hathaway, an Oscar nominee for 2008's "Rachel Getting Married,"

Oh the irony :smallamused:

[Jan Mattys]

Oh the irony :smallamused:

Lol I thought the same when I read it :smallbiggrin:

[Sholos]

I knew it! Catwoman was the only real choice they had for another romance partner, and she works well in Nolan's world.

Bane I'm a little more skeptical about. I've never really liked the character, since the only reason he seems to exist is to have someone that "beat the Bat" (which of course was quickly undone).

[Jan Mattys]

What I'm wondering is, will Batman's back break or not (or, if you prefer, "will something equally bad happen to the bat?")

The thing is: if Bane doesn't end up being a credible threat, he's just a pumped-up thug. On the other hand, being Dark Knight Rises the last movie of the trilogy, there's definitely room for a not-so-happy-end.

Do you think DC would allow a trilogy ending up with Bruce beaten and / or incapacitated, and Gotham saved by his sacrifice? Will DC really accept a self-containing trilogy with a definitive end of the story of the Bat?

It could be an awesome product, but I know companies usualy hate things that cannot be expanded later :smallfrown:

[Irbis]

Oh the irony :smallamused:

Why? :smallconfused:

[Jan Mattys]

Why? :smallconfused:

Rachel tells Harvey that she accepts his proposal and wants to marry him. Batman arrives at Dent's location in time to save him, but Gordon fails to reach the other location in time, and Rachel is killed in the explosion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dawes)

Because :smallbiggrin:

[ThePhantasm]

I'm pleased with the decision. Tom Hardy is a great actor; they've said Bane will be "their reimagination" of the character, so I don't expect him to be too much of a super hulk, just a smart and capable villain for Batman to face. I was also hoping Nolan would try his hand at Catwoman. I think she could make an interesting assassin or something. Looking forward to this.

[Mordaenor]

I'll be curios to see Hathaway's portayal. I think she is both attractive and talented as an actress, but the phrase "cat-like" isn't one that jumps to mind for me.

[The Glyphstone]

Yes! Bane! Now if only they don't screw him up...and at least it sounds like he'll be an independent operator this time, rather than someone's mindless henchman (speculation fueled by the lack of a third villain name).

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Gaaaah, please no Hathaway. Nolan, why have you forsaken us!?

(Yeah, I really detest Hathaway in... everything. And as a person.)

Also, is there any reason why they have to bring two characters in? I mean, I suppose if they do it right it's all good, Joker stole last show, while Harvey really didn't make appearance as Two-Face until the end when he was needed.

I just usually don't see much good otherwise come out of multi-villain comic films.

These films have been fantastic however, so I'm going to have faith he knows what he's doing... though the fact he chose Hathaway as Catwoman gives me doubts.


Edit: Huh, was just reading up on Bane (I've never read a comic book) and he's supposed to be a 'dark mirror' of Doc Savage, one of my favorite fictional good guys. This could be interesting if he's done right.

[SlayerScott]

Well, I wasn't excited when I heard Heath Ledger was going to be the Joker and I thought that turned out awesome. I'm going to just have faith in the casting decisions. She's not my favorite actress, but Anne Hathaway is pretty hot.

If you read Knightfall, Bane isn't just some roid rage moron. He meticulously crafted a plot to defeat Batman, both discovering Batman's secret identity and manipulating all of his enemies against him. If you read something other than Knightfall or (shudder) reference Bane's appearance in Batman and Robin, yeah -- he's a one note villain. I'm going to regard this with cautious optimism.

[TheOasysMaster]

These films have been fantastic however, so I'm going to have faith he knows what he's doing... though the fact he chose Hathaway as Catwoman gives me doubts.
Totally agree-she wouldn't have been my choice...

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Well, I wasn't excited when I heard Heath Ledger was going to be the Joker and I thought that turned out awesome. I'm going to just have faith in the casting decisions. She's not my favorite actress, but Anne Hathaway is pretty hot.
She's one of those who can be hot without being attractive. She's so... fake. Insincere. Socially calculated. In absolutely everything.

Perfect quote from a Star Trek NG episode I recall as a kid: "Your self-portrait is so practiced, so polished... it's stretched so tight, the tension fills this room."

[Moglorosh]

Thought I'd read somewhere that officially, Anne Hathaway has been cast as Selina Kyle, with no guarantee that the catwoman persona would make an appearance.

[Prime32]

What I'm wondering is, will Batman's back break or not (or, if you prefer, "will something equally bad happen to the bat?")

The thing is: if Bane doesn't end up being a credible threat, he's just a pumped-up thug. On the other hand, being Dark Knight Rises the last movie of the trilogy, there's definitely room for a not-so-happy-end.

Do you think DC would allow a trilogy ending up with Bruce beaten and / or incapacitated, and Gotham saved by his sacrifice? Will DC really accept a self-containing trilogy with a definitive end of the story of the Bat?

It could be an awesome product, but I know companies usualy hate things that cannot be expanded later :smallfrown:They could always have Batman die... and then the last scene is a mugging, and Batman appears without explanation just before the movie ends.

[WalkingTarget]

(Yeah, I really detest Hathaway in... everything. And as a person.)

I'm not sure I've even seen an entire movie that she was in (only bits and pieces here and there) so I don't have much of a frame of reference for her as an actress, but what has she done IRL to earn your ire? I don't think I ever heard about her being involved with drug or alcohol abuse like some other young actresses. Not that I'm at all in touch with celebrity gossip either, so it's entirely possible that I'm just not aware of such things.

edit - and ninja/response makes my question redundant.

[HalfTangible]

What I'm wondering is, will Batman's back break or not (or, if you prefer, "will something equally bad happen to the bat?")

The thing is: if Bane doesn't end up being a credible threat, he's just a pumped-up thug. On the other hand, being Dark Knight Rises the last movie of the trilogy, there's definitely room for a not-so-happy-end.

Do you think DC would allow a trilogy ending up with Bruce beaten and / or incapacitated, and Gotham saved by his sacrifice? Will DC really accept a self-containing trilogy with a definitive end of the story of the Bat?

It could be an awesome product, but I know companies usualy hate things that cannot be expanded later :smallfrown:
This is DC we're talking about. They'd find a way :smalltongue:

[TheOasysMaster]

Thought I'd read somewhere that officially, Anne Hathaway has been cast as Selina Kyle, with no guarantee that the catwoman persona would make an appearance.
Oh thank GOD! She can be Selina... But Catwoman is something else entirely.

[Mordaenor]

Oh thank GOD! She can be Selina... But Catwoman is something else entirely.

Isn't that kind of like having Harvey Dent w/o Two-Face or Richard Grayson w/o Robin? Seems to me that if Selina is in the film, then Catwoman is going to be making an appearance.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Oh thank GOD! She can be Selina... But Catwoman is something else entirely.
I can much better accept that as well.

[Calmness]

They chose Bane?

Oh Mr. Nolan, you are a man with class.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I thought Nolan said he hated Catwoman? :smallconfused:

[UncleWolf]

Yeah, while I'm cautious about who's playing Catwoman, I'm very very worried for Bane. I actually read most of the Knightfall series, and cringe whenever people make him into a drug-fueled idiot thug.

I'm really hoping they don't mess him up.

[SlayerScott]

Isn't that kind of like having Harvey Dent w/o Two-Face or Richard Grayson w/o Robin? Seems to me that if Selina is in the film, then Catwoman is going to be making an appearance.

Actually, Harvey Dent was in Tim Burton's 1989 Batman wthout being Two-Face. He was played by Billy Dee Williams - he probably could have told Batman where he could get a good "deal" on scary black capes.

I'm pretty sure Nolan said he hated The Riddler, but I'll have to check up on that.

[Dr.Epic]

I kind of don't want Catwoman to be in the film. I'm not really sure if she can fit with the tone Nolan is trying to set with his films, but I could be wrong. As for Bane: YEAH! I love that guy. I don't know much about the actor playing him. Is he buff? 'Cause isn't that a part of the character. You know, a pretty big part. I'm sure it can't be worse than the Bane in Batman and Robin.

[The Glyphstone]

I kind of don't want Catwoman to be in the film. I'm not really sure if she can fit with the tone Nolan is trying to set with his films, but I could be wrong. As for Bane: YEAH! I love that guy. I don't know much about the actor playing him. Is he buff? 'Cause isn't that a part of the character. You know, a pretty big part. I'm sure it can't be worse than the Bane in Batman and Robin.

I think this guy:

http://powet.tv/powetblog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/tom_hardy-bronson.jpg


Will do fine physically as Bane.

[Abies]

Whenever I see Tom Hardy I can't help but think of him as Shinzon from Star Trek: Nemesis. It seemed like he's learned to act a bit from what I saw in Inception, but man was he godawful in Nemesis. Then again, everything about that movie was terrible.

[Dr.Epic]

I think this guy:

http://powet.tv/powetblog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/tom_hardy-bronson.jpg


Will do fine physically as Bane.

That guy's Bane? The wiki page about him just had his head shot. Yeah, he looks perfect for the guy. Now the only question is can he act.

[Dienekes]

YES! The world needs more luchador villains! Honestly I'm curious how they pull him off.

As for Catwomen? Ehh, the only times I have been interested in her character was in Long Halloween, and some few episodes of BTAS. But then, I'm have little interest in romance plots anyhow.

But Bane as a concept can be a pretty good choice. Batman already faced the black organization in the first movie, the psychotic in the second, if they use Bane as a serious physical and intelligent threat it can be a great movie. It's getting the big guy to be taken seriously that is the problem, though I'm sure Nolan will come up with something.

[Hands_Of_Blue]

I knew it! Catwoman was the only real choice they had for another romance partner, and she works well in Nolan's world. I'm a litttle disappointed that they didn't pick Talia al Ghul.

Not only do I prefer her to Selina, but then they could have had a teaser after the credits of her reporting back to Ra's, played by Liam Neeson. That would be awesome.

Just like it would have been awesome if the last movie at a scene near the end of Joker at Arkham being interviewed by Dr. Harleen Quinzel.

[The Glyphstone]

YES! The world needs more luchador villains!



It's getting the big guy to be taken seriously that is the problem,

The irony here is intentional, right?:smallconfused:

[Dienekes]

The irony here is intentional, right?:smallconfused:

Yes, yes it is.

[Loki_42]

I'm a litttle disappointed that they didn't pick Talia al Ghul.

This. If they're casting Anne Hathaway, she looks more like Talia than Silina anyway.

[MammonAzrael]

I'm still looking for actual confirmation that hathaway was cast as Catwoman, not just Selena Kyle. I would be surprised if only Selena showed up, but its possible.

Dr. Epic - I don't see what is such a stretch to have her in Nolan's universe. As an extremely skilled thief, I could easily see her come to Gotham for the high society and wealth, to be hired to steal something, perhaps corporate espionage on Wayne Enterprises (by rival company LexCorp :smallamused:), or lured there by the challenge of stealing things under the nose of this crazy-but-skilled bat-dude vigilante.

All that said, I too am a little sad they didn't go with Talia. While I wouldn't expect to be getting Damien by the end of the flick, I do think it'd be really interesting. Perhaps Bruce needs to mature more into his role of the Detective first, though.

[Jan Mattys]

All that said, I too am a little sad they didn't go with Talia. While I wouldn't expect to be getting Damien by the end of the flick, I do think it'd be really interesting. Perhaps Bruce needs to mature more into his role of the Detective first, though.

I agree. After all, Nolan's Batman is pretty young in his career. How much time has passed in the two movies anyway? A couple months, tops? Maybe six months? I don't think it's been a year between Bruce's return and the end of the second movie.

[Crunchy English]

Bane makes more sense than I think most people realize. An incredibly strong, intelligent and determined South American Assassin with a steroid problem? Heck, that probably exists in the real world.

As for Catwoman... difficult. What would cause her to dress up like a Cat, other than it is expected. Other movies have used "totemic" or "magical" explanations, but that won't fly in Nolan's movies...

[Prime32]

As for Catwoman... difficult. What would cause her to dress up like a Cat, other than it is expected. Other movies have used "totemic" or "magical" explanations, but that won't fly in Nolan's movies.."Heh, you look kind of like a cat with that headset/goggles/etc."
"You like cats, eh? :smallamused:"

[MammonAzrael]

As for Catwoman... difficult. What would cause her to dress up like a Cat, other than it is expected. Other movies have used "totemic" or "magical" explanations, but that won't fly in Nolan's movies...

Simplicity itself. Selena is a woman with both style and a sense of humor. She is a world-class thief, aka a cat burglar. She could be dressed in the modern style, a sleek, functional outfit to allow her acrobatics and freedom of movement. And she added some cat ears on the hood for style, personal amusement, and a calling card.

The fact that she likes cats helps too. :smallamused:

[Tyrant]

Nolan hasn't let me down yet so I will trust his judgement. Having said that, I am surprised he is using Selina Kyle and not Talia. To me, Talia makes more sense (and Hathaway looks more like Talia than Selina to me) for a few reasons. A) It helps bring the plots of the movies together as she comes to Gotham to avenge the death of her father B) She works as a love interest for Bruce because they have a number of things in common at that point. Their parents died in violence (sure, Ra's was asking for it, but a father is still a father), they are both intelligent and driven people, they both have sides the public doesn't know they have, they are both rich, etc. C) It leads to an inevitably tragic ending once they realise who they really are D) It sets up a surprise ending where Ra's shows up at the end (probably wouldn't happen, but we can dream) after even his daughter thought he was dead

[Hawriel]

I thought Nolan said he didnt like Catwoman and would not use her.

She is a great choice for Nolan's version of batman for a foil. I would really like to see Hathaway portray her.

Bane just sucks.

The Riddler would have been better. As well as Penguan. Hell I think Mr freez could work.

[VanBuren]

I thought Nolan said he didnt like Catwoman and would not use her.

She is a great choice for Nolan's version of batman for a foil. I would really like to see Hathaway portray her.

Bane just sucks.

The Riddler would have been better. As well as Penguan. Hell I think Mr freez could work.

I think we're all a little hesitant to go down that road.

[Querzis]

Other movies have used "totemic" or "magical" explanations, but that won't fly in Nolan's movies...

As far as I'm concerned, as much as I love Nolan movies, I think he kinda shot himself in the leg when he started his «no supernatural stuff» rule in a batman movie cause really, most of the batman universe is filled science-fiction stuff and magic. And for those who says it make it more realistic...well no. Even without any supernatural stuff going on in both movies, I would still not believe for even a second that a guy can do what batman do in those movies. But hey, I guess that why I liked Burton batman more then Nolan batman. 'shrug'

But back to Selina and Bane. Selina can actually be done without Catwoman if Nolan is planning to have another movie after this. It give them a chance to explore the romance between Bruce and Selina before the romance between Batman and Catwoman even start. But yeah, if this is the last movie of the trilogy, no way they are just gonna show Selina without Catwoman, that would be so disapointing. And Bane is awesome when done right. Hes not done right very often mind you but hey, after the first two movies, I'm sure not gonna doubt Nolan skills at writing good villains.

[Dienekes]

As far as I'm concerned, as much as I love Nolan movies, I think he kinda shot himself in the leg when he started his «no supernatural stuff» rule in a batman movie cause really, most of the batman universe is filled science-fiction stuff and magic. And for those who says it make it more realistic...well no. Even without any supernatural stuff going on in both movies, I would still not believe for even a second that a guy can do what batman do in those movies. But hey, I guess that why I liked Burton batman more then Nolan batman. 'shrug'

I don't think it's more realistic so much as more gritty. It more blends the comic book feel with the genre's of action hero such as John McClane. While I agree that Batman has a lot of supernatural elements and when done right they're awesome, I think that's part of the reason that it's only going to be a trilogy. His Batman (and a lot of his movies) have pseudo realism, fixed firmly where his suspension of disbelief is. A man gliding like a Bat and a killer clown tearing apart a city, if shot and explained in the right way can be fit into the real of my mind saying don't tear this apart until after the movie is over. A man holding a freeze gun, doesn't lend itself to that as well. This isn't to say that it can't be done, but it's harder.

Also, got to add, I much prefer Nolan Batman to Burton Batman. If for the only reason being the supposed "dark" movie had the city being attacked by penguins with rocket launchers. After a point you got to realize there is comic-book realism, and just plain silly.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Not sure if this is true, but I had thought they were going to do this one to kind of lead into a Justice League movie.

If that's true, then Batman won't die. And some other DC hero will at least be mentioned at some point.

[CorrTerek]

Not sure if this is true, but I had thought they were going to do this one to kind of lead into a Justice League movie.

If that's true, then Batman won't die. And some other DC hero will at least be mentioned at some point.

If I recall correctly, they've vetoed any idea of a Justice League movie. And even if they did, I seriously doubt Nolan's Batman would fit alongside, say, the Martian Manhunter and Plastic Man.

[Querzis]

Also, got to add, I much prefer Nolan Batman to Burton Batman. If for the only reason being the supposed "dark" movie had the city being attacked by penguins with rocket launchers. After a point you got to realize there is comic-book realism, and just plain silly.

Whats wrong with silly? Most of what happens in real life and comic books is silly so I certainly dont find have a problem with it in an action movie, quite the opposite. As far as I'm concerned, when a movie start taking itself too seriously then I actually become unable to take it seriously because a world where absolutely nobody is ever silly is just impossible. I rarely think mood whiplash (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoodWhiplash) is a bad thing and it never damage my suspension of disbelief. After all, in any funeral, someone is gonna fart at some point. Even if the Rocket Launcher are attached to penguins, I dont suddenly feel less threatened. I just think at the exact same time «Watch out Batman!» and «those penguins are so cute!».

Mind you, once again, I love Nolan movies but I can definitly get more into Burton Batmans. Sure, they are not realistic by the real world standard but Nolan Batmans arent either. For me its never been important if the movie could happen in the real world, the important thing is that the universe thats in the movie (or any work of fiction really) feels like an actual world with the wide range of emotions and personalities it imply.

[Jahkaivah]

I rarely think mood whiplash (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoodWhiplash) is a bad thing and it never damage my suspension of disbelief.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/saxcsa/BatCreditCard.jpg

[Querzis]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/saxcsa/BatCreditCard.jpg

Thats not mood whiplash thats just a wallbanger or so bad its horrible. Its just really, really stupid and since the scene in question was already pretty stupid by itself, it really didnt change the emotion of the scene at all. Considering the fact that this scene was about Batman and Robin trying outbid each other for a date with Poison Ivy, the bat credit card seems like the next logical step in the stupidity of the movie. I suggest you actually read what mood whiplash means before posting. Cause Batman in Robin is actually a pretty good example of what I was talking about. It was displaying only one emotion (stupidity) and only one personality type (dumb) therefore it was crap.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

Actually, Harvey Dent was in Tim Burton's 1989 Batman wthout being Two-Face. He was played by Billy Dee Williams - he probably could have told Batman where he could get a good "deal" on scary black capes.

I'm pretty sure Nolan said he hated The Riddler, but I'll have to check up on that.

Billy Dee Williams was also intended to reprise his role as Harvey Dent/Two-Face in a later film, but then they replaced him (for Tommy Lee Jones) for Batman Forever.



Do you think DC would allow a trilogy ending up with Bruce beaten and / or incapacitated, and Gotham saved by his sacrifice? Will DC really accept a self-containing trilogy with a definitive end of the story of the Bat?

It could be an awesome product, but I know companies usualy hate things that cannot be expanded later :smallfrown:

You're also making the assumption that it's intended to stop at a trilogy. Yes Nolan has hinted at the fact that the third film may very well be the last one. But that isn't to say that Nolan is set in stone 100% about there being only three films or that he will never change his mind about that. Or the possibility that some other director may choose to take up the mantle as well.


I knew it! Catwoman was the only real choice they had for another romance partner, and she works well in Nolan's world.

Bane I'm a little more skeptical about. I've never really liked the character, since the only reason he seems to exist is to have someone that "beat the Bat" (which of course was quickly undone).

After the following quote from The Dark Knight, I think Catwoman was the obvious decision for the next film.

Bruce Wayne: How will it hold up against dogs? (talking about his new bat suit after getting attacked by the doberman early in the movie)

Lucius Fox: We talking Rottweilers or Chihuahuas? Should do fine against cats.

[Dante & Vergil]

You're also making the assumption that it's intended to stop at a trilogy. Yes Nolan has hinted at the fact that the third film may very well be the last one. But that isn't to say that Nolan is set in stone 100% about there being only three films or that he will never change his mind about that. Or the possibility that some other director may choose to take up the mantle as well.

It's assumed to be three movies, but I just read an article with Bale saying that if Nolan wanted to do a fourth, he would be on board for it, but only if Nolan is behind the movie. Who knows?

[Thrawn183]

I'm more interested in the character development in this movie. In the first, Batman Begins, we have what is pretty much an origin story, with a little bit about batman not killing people.

In the second, Dark Knight, it's all about limits and boundries. Does Batman only operate in Gotham? No, he'll get you even if you flee the country. Does batman keep getting better gear? Eh, he tweaked the bat-mobile some, but we saw that it has it's limits in terms of durability, and we saw that he made the suit less protecting to regain some mobility, it doesn't look like he can go much further there. Does batman ever kill? No, not even the joker. How much should batman invade people's privacy to track down criminals? Well, we have the destruction of the "bat computer."

I'll state my predictions for the third movie in two parts:

I think Bane will definitely win against batman at some point. I'm not saying it will be the whole broken back thing, but I do think it will be something significant. It really plays into the idea of rising again, if batman gets beaten and then comes back.

This leads into what I think is the question to be posed: does Bruce want to keep being batman? Right now, he has no real reason to not be batman. No friends, no family. While it is suggested that he gets hurt on the job, it hasn't been anything too bad. He has a lot of time and money on his hands, and recently a psycho enemy that had to be stopped, but what about if his opponents are just a thief and someone who's out to get batman? Is he really going to keep wanting to be batman when he's suffering defeat and finally has a good reason to "hang up the cape?" Yes, I'm thinking of a romance with Selina here. If he makes that decision and then changes his mind, it would also fit the idea of the dark knight rising again.

It would bring a lot of closure to the trilogy if we see: The beginning of the character, the limits of the character and then the future of the character (ie. that he's decided being batman is most important to him).

[Jahkaivah]

Thats not mood whiplash thats just a wallbanger or so bad its horrible. Its just really, really stupid and since the scene in question was already pretty stupid by itself, it really didnt change the emotion of the scene at all. Considering the fact that this scene was about Batman and Robin trying outbid each other for a date with Poison Ivy, the bat credit card seems like the next logical step in the stupidity of the movie. I suggest you actually read what mood whiplash means before posting. Cause Batman in Robin is actually a pretty good example of what I was talking about. It was displaying only one emotion (stupidity) and only one personality type (dumb) therefore it was crap.


My point is that your fine with penguins with rocket launchers but not batman whiping out a credit card. While ignoring the fact that there are people (probably more than most) who find both idiotic and are much happier with a batman where the only silly things is batman himself and a psychotic man wearing makeup.

Not sure why you mentioned Mood Whiplash since that isn't really relevant. Of course I'm not sure why I quoted it, suppose it was just part of the sentance with a conveniant tail-end.

[HalfTangible]

My point is that your fine with penguins with rocket launchers but not batman whiping out a credit card. While ignoring the fact that there are people (probably more than most) who find both idiotic and are much happier with a batman where the only silly things is batman himself and a psychotic man wearing makeup.

Not sure why you mentioned Mood Whiplash since that isn't really relevant. Of course I'm not sure why I quoted it, suppose it was just part of the sentance with a conveniant tail-end.

Personally i found the Nolanverse wasn't all that silly from a 'This couldn't happen in a million years' standpoint, it was silly from a 'why would anybody even TRY to do that' standpoint. (except for two-face - why didn't he get a cold/the flu with all of his skin missing on half of his face?) The bat-cycle, for instance, only really worked if the Batmobile was being used for a chase. But almost everything else about the car screamed 'combat, battle, warfare'. Moreover, if the damage was bad enough to render the batmobile inoperable, leaving yourself even MORE exposed seemed like a terrible idea from the outset.

Versus star wars, where you have entire planets that ignore the differing temperatures and climates brought on by... well, by being a planet...

Or fantasy, where you have to ignore that magic doesn't really exist. And then you have to ignore that magic (as defined) CAN'T exist because it's about manipulating energy to defy physics, and if magic was useable, it'd be 'physically' possible.

[An Enemy Spy]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/saxcsa/BatCreditCard.jpg

A bat credit card? A BAT CREDIT CARD?!!!! I'LL KILL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Querzis]

My point is that your fine with penguins with rocket launchers but not batman whiping out a credit card. While ignoring the fact that there are people (probably more than most) who find both idiotic and are much happier with a batman where the only silly things is batman himself and a psychotic man wearing makeup.

Well HalfTangible already nailed it but yeah, if you wanna start with that almost every movie is idiotic and silly and those who arent are freaking boring. But since you ignored my point about a world being more full and believable when it display a large range of emotion and personalities and that the problem with this scene, the bat credit card and the whole movie is that it still doesnt make sense in context, not that its idiotic by the real world standard (since Nolans movies definitly are too) then I suppose I have nothing more to say to you.

[Jahkaivah]

A bat credit card? A BAT CREDIT CARD?!!!! I'LL KILL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Note to self: Don't post bat credit cards, it doesn't help.


Personally i found the Nolanverse wasn't all that silly from a 'This couldn't happen in a million years' standpoint, it was silly from a 'why would anybody even TRY to do that' standpoint. (except for two-face - why didn't he get a cold/the flu with all of his skin missing on half of his face?) The bat-cycle, for instance, only really worked if the Batmobile was being used for a chase. But almost everything else about the car screamed 'combat, battle, warfare'. Moreover, if the damage was bad enough to render the batmobile inoperable, leaving yourself even MORE exposed seemed like a terrible idea from the outset.


Thing is there is a differance between obeying action movie logic and the extent to which sci fi or fantasy elements should play in a film.

Otherwise Die Hard might as well have had wizards.

Thats my problem, its not that Batman can't have sci fi or fantasy or even be a bit camp or silly, it is this idea that because Nolan does what action films in general do means that it might as well adopt some of that.

[Dienekes]

I'll be honest here. I found the rocket launcher penguins more ridiculous than the Bat Credit Card. By Batman and Robin the whole world had gone so topsy turvy and insane, that we're introduced to the show with a evil hockey team of doom and a pun spouting Arnold that by the time the credit card appeared, well it more or less seemed par for the rather annoying course. But the rocket launcher penguins just randomly show up. I think my mind just sort of shut down when I saw it. And it remained that way for the rest of the movie (which was thankfully fairly short after that, but still managed to have a horrendously bad yet somehow seemed to be taking itself seriously penguin funeral)

That said, I enjoyed Batman Returns, but holy cow did the ending get stupid.

[kpenguin]

Woah.

I've never seen Batman Returns. Clearly I should. Because rocket launcher penguins.

...

I like penguins.

[Blynkibrax]

I thought Nolan said he didnt like Catwoman and would not use her.

She is a great choice for Nolan's version of batman for a foil. I would really like to see Hathaway portray her.

Bane just sucks.

The Riddler would have been better. As well as Penguan. Hell I think Mr freez could work.
I think we're all a little hesitant to go down that road.

Mite b cool. :smallcool:

[Lurkmoar]

Mite b cool. :smallcool:

You just killed me with that pun. My ghost will now be haunting you.

I enjoyed both of Nolan's Batman movies, so I'm looking forward to the third one. As long as there are no bat nipples...

[The Glyphstone]

Mite b cool. :smallcool:

Wow, that was cold.

[Blynkibrax]

You just killed me with that pun. My ghost will now be haunting you.
Oh, come on. You need to cool down and chill out.

[Jahkaivah]

Oh, come on. You need to cool down and chill out.

Thing is, this ghost.

Will give you the chills.

So prepare to be frozen with horror.

(Note to self: This probably helps less than the bat credit card)

[Tyrant]

Otherwise Die Hard might as well have had wizards.
I thought Die Hard 4 more or less did though. That seems to be how they use computer hackers in movies. Then again, the Die Hard movies might make even more sense if we assume that all of the villains have used extensive divinations to craft their plans that always seem to depend on their opponents doing certain things at certain times and their opponents always do those things. Except Mclane, who is likely shielded from divinations to explain why they can outsmart and out gun whole government agencies but can't deal with one cop. It's probably the Bloody Undershirt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wife_beater_(slang)) of Power that he seems to always find himself in by the end that allows Mclane to triumph.

[Jallorn]

Personally i found the Nolanverse wasn't all that silly from a 'This couldn't happen in a million years' standpoint, it was silly from a 'why would anybody even TRY to do that' standpoint. (except for two-face - why didn't he get a cold/the flu with all of his skin missing on half of his face?) The bat-cycle, for instance, only really worked if the Batmobile was being used for a chase. But almost everything else about the car screamed 'combat, battle, warfare'. Moreover, if the damage was bad enough to render the batmobile inoperable, leaving yourself even MORE exposed seemed like a terrible idea from the outset.

Versus star wars, where you have entire planets that ignore the differing temperatures and climates brought on by... well, by being a planet...

Or fantasy, where you have to ignore that magic doesn't really exist. And then you have to ignore that magic (as defined) CAN'T exist because it's about manipulating energy to defy physics, and if magic was useable, it'd be 'physically' possible.

See, you're ignoring the quality of verisimilitude. It doesn't mean "real," it means believable, and realistic given the established facts of the world. In a sci-fi setting, well, the planet thing is still kinda stupid usually, but FTL travel is often a fact of the setting that, while impossible in real life (though there are a handful of theories, these are rarely the ones used) is nonetheless accepted. In a fantasy setting, magic is established as a fact, a part of the physics of the world, therefore acceptable.

The comic book elements of Nolan's Batman allow it to be a little over the top, without being silly. Counter with Mr. Freeze from whichever movie, where it goes too far, and he becomes someone you can't take seriously because there's no verisimilitude. No one else talks like that, he's unique, in a really bad way. Contrast also with the penguins, who otherwise (I think) basically act like penguins most of the time.

Also, minor nitpick, but by the time Two-Face left the clean hospital, his skin was covered in scar tissue, and the mouth is plenty capable of staving off most diseases. Additionally, Colds are usually diseases that are already in our body, and manage to do something because we're particularly weak, whether from not enough sleep, or not enough vitamins, or whatever.

[MammonAzrael]

Additionally, Colds are usually diseases that are already in our body, and manage to do something because we're particularly weak, whether from not enough sleep, or not enough vitamins, or whatever.

And Harvey Dent is too manly to be weakened by a little thing like having half his face burned off. :smallamused:

(Note that I'm only half joking here, as having half your face seared probably isn't the kind of damage that would give a cold an opening.)



As from rocket-penguins, my brain just kinda...blanks. They aren't as cheesy as the Bat-card, but they really don't fit the tone of the movie in my opinion.

[Blynkibrax]

Just like it would have been awesome if the last movie at a scene near the end of Joker at Arkham being interviewed by Dr. Harleen Quinzel.

Hell, they could throw that into the next movie, even though Heath is no longer with us.

It'd be a great throwaway moment. Just show Dr. Quinzel leaving an interview room, looking flustered, with the sound of the Joker's laughter echoing down the hall behind her.

[cdstephens]

Versus star wars, where you have entire planets that ignore the differing temperatures and climates brought on by... well, by being a planet...


Actually, the idea of a planet having only one or two different types of climates and geographies makes a lot of sense. Very few planets in the universe are earth like; just look at our solar system for example. Mars is essentially a a dessert that goes from very hot to very cold at some places. Jupiter is a gas planet under a constant storm. Venus is a planet with so much greenhouse gas that it's always under extremely hot conditions. The planets in Star Wars show differences with their day/night cycles too, like on Hoth where they had to shut the doors after Luke didn't come back.

[Joran]

I'm a litttle disappointed that they didn't pick Talia al Ghul.

Not only do I prefer her to Selina, but then they could have had a teaser after the credits of her reporting back to Ra's, played by Liam Neeson. That would be awesome.

Just like it would have been awesome if the last movie at a scene near the end of Joker at Arkham being interviewed by Dr. Harleen Quinzel.

I was also expecting Talia rather than Catwoman. Do the Lazarus Pits need to exist for Talia to work, since she's more interesting with her recently deceased father around.

[HalfTangible]

Woah.

I've never seen Batman Returns. Clearly I should. Because rocket launcher penguins.

...

I like penguins.
This penguin-loving mod was brought to you by the letter 'K'.

=D

..........

*tomato* Ok, who threw that?!

[Lurkmoar]

This penguin-loving mod was brought to you by the letter 'K'.

=D

..........

*tomato* Ok, who threw that?!

*raises hand*

Man, Anne Hathaway really doesn't look like a Catwoman, but I could totally see her as Talia as others have mentioned.

[CorrTerek]

*raises hand*

Man, Anne Hathaway really doesn't look like a Catwoman, but I could totally see her as Talia as others have mentioned.

You should see some of the photoshops that have been circling around since the news broke. I didn't think she could work either, but I'm convinced now.

[HalfTangible]

Actually, the idea of a planet having only one or two different types of climates and geographies makes a lot of sense. Very few planets in the universe are earth like; just look at our solar system for example. Mars is essentially a a dessert that goes from very hot to very cold at some places. Jupiter is a gas planet under a constant storm. Venus is a planet with so much greenhouse gas that it's always under extremely hot conditions. The planets in Star Wars show differences with their day/night cycles too, like on Hoth where they had to shut the doors after Luke didn't come back.

I was thinking along the lines of coruscant, endor and dagobah, actually. :smalltongue: The ones covered entirely by things that are usually in small areas under very specific conditions?

[turkishproverb]

Thing is, this ghost.

Will give you the chills.

So prepare to be frozen with horror.

(Note to self: This probably helps less than the bat credit card)

Put the puns on ice already.

[The Glyphstone]

Put the puns on ice already.

Chill out, we're just having a bit of fun.

[Lurkmoar]

Chill out, we're just having a bit of fun.

*convulsive seizures*

What's with all the puns? Are they coming back in style from cold storage? And really, while Mister Freeze is an interesting villain (at least when the animated series revamped his origin), after Arnold... I just...

[HalfTangible]

Chill out, we're just having a bit of fun.

Maybe we could slow down?

...

It's funny because 'cold' doesn't exist and is actually just molecules moving more slowly =D

....

Yeah, i'm ashamed of it too :smallfrown:

[turkishproverb]

Maybe we could slow down?

...

It's funny because 'cold' doesn't exist and is actually just molecules moving more slowly =D

....

Yeah, i'm ashamed of it too :smallfrown:

Not cool man. Not cool.

[HalfTangible]

Not cool man. Not cool.

That was done already. And it was overdone before that :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

[Hawriel]

I think we're all a little hesitant to go down that road.

Why? Because Arnald played Mr. Freez that character is ruined? Or is it because he is more of a 'super powered' character.

Let me explane my thinking. Well I did the other day but I forgot to hit submit when I realized I was late for gaming.

Mr. Freez in no way has to be a super power character who needs to be in a frozen biosuite to live. The name Mr. Freez could be given to him because he is a cold emotionless killer. He is a hitman that usess liqued nitrogen to kill. He has ice blue/white eyes. He could still have a dead wife named Nora who he keeps frozen in a jar. If you really want him to be white skinned make him an albino. That way he can wear sunglasses or some kind of eye wear. It could even go as far as Mr. Freez prefering a cool temperature. Not subzero mind you, just below what is normaly preferd.

This kind of Mr. Freez is not a main villan like the Joker or Ras A'l ghul. He is the attack dog or fixer for a person in power. Such as a high ranking mob boss. Like the Penquin.

[VanBuren]

Why? Because Arnald played Mr. Freez that character is ruined? Or is it because he is more of a 'super powered' character.

Let me explane my thinking. Well I did the other day but I forgot to hit submit when I realized I was late for gaming.

Mr. Freez in no way has to be a super power character who needs to be in a frozen biosuite to live. The name Mr. Freez could be given to him because he is a cold emotionless killer. He is a hitman that usess liqued nitrogen to kill. He has ice blue/white eyes. He could still have a dead wife named Nora who he keeps frozen in a jar. If you really want him to be white skinned make him an albino. That way he can wear sunglasses or some kind of eye wear. It could even go as far as Mr. Freez prefering a cool temperature. Not subzero mind you, just below what is normaly preferd.

This kind of Mr. Freez is not a main villan like the Joker or Ras A'l ghul. He is the attack dog or fixer for a person in power. Such as a high ranking mob boss. Like the Penquin.

Mostly because it went down so badly last time. And now that the Dark Knight trilogy is so good, we don't want to ruin its third movie. Fair? No. Superstitious? Kinda.

[Zen Monkey]

Why would a realistic Catwoman even merit attention from Batman? A simple thief seems to be beneath the notice of this new bat, who has been dealing with mass murder attempts and rampant corruption. Really, a few missing cat statues are a crisis now? That wouldn't even warrant the attention of the major crimes unit, much less a superhero.

[Thufir]

Why would a realistic Catwoman even merit attention from Batman? A simple thief seems to be beneath the notice of this new bat, who has been dealing with mass murder attempts and rampant corruption. Really, a few missing cat statues are a crisis now? That wouldn't even warrant the attention of the major crimes unit, much less a superhero.

Maybe she's stealing something really significant?
Maybe she steals/tries to steal something from Wayne Enterprises?
Or maybe they just bump into each other on a rooftop somewhere and go "Wait, someone else had the idea of concealing their identity with an animal themed costume? Now I feel unoriginal."

[VanBuren]

Why would a realistic Catwoman even merit attention from Batman? A simple thief seems to be beneath the notice of this new bat, who has been dealing with mass murder attempts and rampant corruption. Really, a few missing cat statues are a crisis now? That wouldn't even warrant the attention of the major crimes unit, much less a superhero.

Wait! Maybe she'll attack him at sea!

See? "C" for Catwoman!

[Traab]

Why would a realistic Catwoman even merit attention from Batman? A simple thief seems to be beneath the notice of this new bat, who has been dealing with mass murder attempts and rampant corruption. Really, a few missing cat statues are a crisis now? That wouldn't even warrant the attention of the major crimes unit, much less a superhero.

That actually is a good question. After all, the threats this directors batman is dealing with are ones with far reaching consequences. As far as I can recall, he isnt arresting random thugs and leaving them tied up hanging from light posts, he is going after the kingpin level criminals. She would have to be stealing something more important than cat themed items. Perhaps have her be hired for industrial espionage type thefts. If Waynecorp is having its prototype powercells stolen, or other items that could be weaponized in the wrong hands, THEN it would be a reason for batman to investigate. Even if it wasnt waynecorp but some other big company, having that sort of thing get stolen and misused would be a bad thing for gotham.

[SmartAlec]

The villains in these movies tend to be in some sort of partnership - The Scarecrow and Ras al'Ghul, the Joker and Two-Face - so it might be fair to assume that the Catwoman and Bane plotlines are interrelated somehow.

For example, assuming that Wayne Manor will be rebuilt and Wayne will be living in it again and there is a Batcave, it's possible that an attempt by Selina to burgle Wayne Manor or Wayne Enterprises leads her to make the discovery that Wayne is Batman. A dangerous thing to know, especially with a musclebound genius like Bane around, who is known for learning who the Batman is. Perhaps this time, he learns it from Catwoman somehow - either willingly or unwillingly on her part.

[Fjolnir]

A chain of ridiculously high profile thefts of objects of intrisic material value may be enough....

[Prime32]

That actually is a good question. After all, the threats this directors batman is dealing with are ones with far reaching consequences. As far as I can recall, he isnt arresting random thugs and leaving them tied up hanging from light posts, he is going after the kingpin level criminals. She would have to be stealing something more important than cat themed items. Perhaps have her be hired for industrial espionage type thefts. If Waynecorp is having its prototype powercells stolen, or other items that could be weaponized in the wrong hands, THEN it would be a reason for batman to investigate. Even if it wasnt waynecorp but some other big company, having that sort of thing get stolen and misused would be a bad thing for gotham.Maybe powercells are being stolen and no one can figure out who's behind it. Then on one of the thefts, a cat statue next to the powercell is also stolen... Batman starts building a psychological profile.

[Dienekes]

Why would a realistic Catwoman even merit attention from Batman? A simple thief seems to be beneath the notice of this new bat, who has been dealing with mass murder attempts and rampant corruption. Really, a few missing cat statues are a crisis now? That wouldn't even warrant the attention of the major crimes unit, much less a superhero.

Part of why Long Halloween's Catwoman is my favorite Catwoman. She isn't tied to Batman because of theft, it's because she's somehow involving herself with the mob and Batman does not know exactly what part she has to play with it. From there Batman tries to solve a high profile murder, take down organized crime, and figure out why she is always there at the scene of the crime. A similar build up in this movie could be interesting, because yes, just stealing cat statues would make a lame villain.

[the Riddler]

Meh...I never liked Nolan anyway. :annoyed:

[Nosferocktu]

Originally Posted by Zen Monkey
Why would a realistic Catwoman even merit attention from Batman? A simple thief seems to be beneath the notice of this new bat, who has been dealing with mass murder attempts and rampant corruption. Really, a few missing cat statues are a crisis now? That wouldn't even warrant the attention of the major crimes unit, much less a superhero.



Eh. It ties in another love interest for Bats since Rachel is dead.

[Jan Mattys]

Wait! Maybe she'll attack him at sea!

See? "C" for Catwoman!

I think I love you for quoting that masterpiece.
:smallredface:

[Jallorn]

Actually, the idea of a planet having only one or two different types of climates and geographies makes a lot of sense. Very few planets in the universe are earth like; just look at our solar system for example. Mars is essentially a a dessert that goes from very hot to very cold at some places. Jupiter is a gas planet under a constant storm. Venus is a planet with so much greenhouse gas that it's always under extremely hot conditions. The planets in Star Wars show differences with their day/night cycles too, like on Hoth where they had to shut the doors after Luke didn't come back.

Alright, first off, most of the planets you've listed aren't within the sun's "life zone," the exception being Mars, which has very little atmosphere because it is a great deal less dense than Earth, thus resulting in an inhospitable and fairly uniform terrain. But even then, there is a fair amount of variety, Mars has mountains, and plains, and channels and I believe a dried up ocean, but I'm not sure.

Second, they had to shut the doors because a blizzard was coming. There was no indication that this was because it was night. I am a little uncertain on this point, but I'm pretty sure it was a point though. Of course, they did have the whole "Temperature drops ridiculously at night," thing.

But back to the main point, which is the issue with uniform terrain/climate across planets. The only feasible ones would be uniform desert, and uniform ice. Of these, ice is far more likely and plausible, though it would have some issues. Specifically, a desert or ice planet, even if it did have an acceptable atmosphere, would be so inhospitable in other ways, that no one would be able to live there without highly specialized equipment, and even then it would be hard. Dangers include extreme temperatures, both heat and cold on the desert planet, just cold on the ice planet, extreme weather, more so on the ice planet, but you would have things like the Tattooine sandstorm, only probably far more frequently, not to mention the incredible amount of wear and tear on the equipment helping you survive, taking away even more time from the time you have to acquire resources on a planet that is harder to acquire resources on.

However, I will concede that Hoth and Tattooine are mostly within realistic parameters, though Tattooine tends to have a much higher population density than I'd expect.

However, anything capable of supporting life without technology (Note: if Hoth was once a life supporting planet that froze over, that would explain the presence of Wampas and Tauntauns, though I still don't know what Tauntauns eat) would have to have an atmosphere and a balanced biome. To put it simply, if a world was all one biome, it would quickly use up the resources that biome consumes.

Please see these on the topic of Coruscant:

http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/396.html
http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/417.html

Edit: I just realized how off topic this is, sorry.

[Josie Whales]

Part of why Long Halloween's Catwoman is my favorite Catwoman. She isn't tied to Batman because of theft, it's because she's somehow involving herself with the mob and Batman does not know exactly what part she has to play with it. From there Batman tries to solve a high profile murder, take down organized crime, and figure out why she is always there at the scene of the crime. A similar build up in this movie could be interesting, because yes, just stealing cat statues would make a lame villain.



Yes exactly. She is tied to Batman partly our of coincidence but also because she intentionality interacts with him.