View Full Version : [4e] Eqivilant challenge, need help

2011-01-20, 11:35 AM
There are 4 PCs in my campaign, all level 3. I want to throw a minotaur at them. The only minotaur I can find in my monster manual is a lvl7, I think it was like 300 experience or so. I do not have enough experience to gauge how difficult of a fight it would be for them. According to my DM I can throw things worth 600 experiance for the group. But that would be lvl 2-4 creatures. Is there a way I can modify the beast and make him a solo challenge?

Another option, and I would like to know how to do this anyways, is what if I made a player character minotaur out of the PH3. What would the equivalent challenge be for 4 lvl3 PCs. Either one solo minotaur or a few lesser ones. Is there a formula for such challenges. How would I calculate the XP?

2011-01-20, 11:40 AM
Your best bet is to take the Minotaur monster and reduce it's level using the guidelines in the DMG.

edit: Similarily you can create a new level 4 minotaur based off the level 7 one but with stats similar to that of monsters of it's type (soldier, brute,whatever) of the same level

2011-01-20, 11:50 AM
I've never DMed, but from what I've heard it's not usually a good idea to make monsters using the rules for PCs - they do too much damage and have too few hp to make a properly balanced encounter. I think you'd be better off doing what Sipex suggested, or just refluffing a solo that's the right level.

2011-01-20, 11:51 AM
Solos tend to be fairly boring encounters though and are hard to get right. You either have to give them minions, extra actions or spice up the encounter part way through.

Kurald Galain
2011-01-20, 11:52 AM
There are 4 PCs in my campaign, all level 3. I want to throw a minotaur at them. The only minotaur I can find in my monster manual is a lvl7,

Okay, so give it -2 to hit, -2 to all defenses and damage rolls, and reduce its hit points by 20%. You'll end up with a level-5 minotaur, more or less.

2011-01-20, 11:57 AM
The DMG has rules for changing a monster's level on page 174, and rules to make a standard into a Solo or an Elite on p 185. Easier still, if you have a DDI account, is to grab the Adventure tools for super-easy customization.

I'd advise against making the minotaur a Solo, unless you're giving him some way to take multiple turns per round. Don't be afraid to lower his HP and raise his damage from the formula; early monsters tended to be light hitters with big bags of HP.

2011-01-20, 06:46 PM
You can use the level 7 minotaur just fine. It's only 4 levels higher than the PCs. Give it 300 xp worth of allies (like a pair of level 3 artillery or skirmishers, or a bunch of minions) and you have a decent encounter. It might be a little tough, but your players can handle it. Trust me, I put 1st level characters up against level 5 enemies in my games, and my players are mostly newbies to 4th Edition.

EDIT: Incidentally, I can't seem to find a level 7 minotaur in any of my MMs. Where is it from?

2011-01-20, 07:22 PM
If you like, you can use the following:

Minotaur: Elite Brute 3 (300 XP)
Large Monstrous Humanoid
HP 96, Bloodied 48
Initiative +3
AC: 15
Fort: 17
Ref: 15
Will: 14


(Basic Melee, Standard Action) Greataxe (Reach 2) +7 vs. AC: 2d6+7, Crit +2d6
(At-Will Melee, Minor Action 1/round) Gore +7 vs. AC: 1d6 + 7
(Encounter Melee, Standard Action) Goring Charge: The Minotaur charges, then may make the following attack:
+7 vs. Fort: 2d6 + 7, and the target takes ongoing 5 damage (save ends).
(At-Will Melee, Immediate Interrupt when an enemy moves adjacent to the Minotaur or it moves adjacent to an enemy) Trample +7 vs. Ref: 1d6 + 7, and the target is knocked prone.

Athletics + 10, Endurance +9, Intimidate +6

Str 18, Con 16
Dex 14, Int 8
Wis 12, Cha 6

It's based on the rules I use to generate monsters (which are similar to the rules in the DMG but slightly altered), but it should work fine as an elite. You'll want to toss in a couple of normal monsters or a dozen-odd minions.

2011-01-20, 07:26 PM
Unfortunately solo's don't make great encounters.

Where's the encounter likely to take place? Always add a few terrarain features.

Anyway - whats to say this minotaur does have a pack of hounds to track for him? An encounter of

level two minions: XP27 x 10
1 x Minitour level 6: XP250

There you've got 520 spent and the rest of the challenge from potential terrarain hazards

Would run a lot better and give the desired effect. One big tough guy, but not a boring slog.

reskin whatever you can find around that level, Make sure it has a charge power - and a push/prone power of somekind and you have a minotour.

HAppy ROllin

2011-01-21, 12:22 AM
If we knew the makeup of your party, we could help ya more.

But I agree that 4 level 3 PCs can handle a Level 7 monster, and then some.

2011-01-21, 10:57 AM
I will point out that it won't be nearly as epic as you hope though. I put a level 6 party against a medusa (with lowered defenses so they wouldn't miss all the time) and it was difficult but brief.

2011-01-21, 12:32 PM
I took two lvl8 minotaur soldiers, made one a lvl5 and the other a lvl4. It was pretty interesting. I almost killed the rouge, but an epic save by the cleric took away my first kill :smallconfused:. They did better then I had expected. I figured a good tactic with their goring ability. Essentially when they got a hold of someone then forced him to be flanked and beat on him senselessly. They were difficult to hit, but they found ways to make it work. I will for sure make it a tad more difficult next time (yes, there will be more). Throw in some sort of leader or have two elites.

EDIT: Incidentally, I can't seem to find a level 7 minotaur in any of my MMs. Where is it from?

It was a level 8. My primary book for monsters has been the Monster Vault. Made primarily for the table top game but all the mechanics are the same. They have everything you would need for an adventure with a wide range of monsters, all the core monsters you can think of, and a good spread of like monsters to build good and interesting encounters. I highly recommend this for any DM.