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yldenfrei
2011-01-21, 08:44 AM
Help, help, help
Help is appreciated! :smallbiggrin:

So there I was, reading Tome of Battle and trying to figure out why people love it. I came across the Valkyrie monster and was somewhat disappointed by their savage and Fury-like depiction. So I decided to make myself a Valkyrie themed PC, doubling as my martial adept practice character.

The fluff is a traditional warrior-maiden, flying over the battlefield, with a shortspear/shield or a longsword/shield in hand. She dons a mithral breastplate, but should also perform well with no armor. Her mandate is to choose a kingdom to which she will grant her--and by extension her god's--favor, ensuring a most excellent crop of slain warriors to send to her god's hall.

Here's my (not very good) plan:

Half-Celestial Template - I considered an Aasimar, but felt their benefits coming short. Plus, I really wanted those celestial wings granting good flight maneuverability. +4 LA doesn't seem so bad for that and then some.
Human - mainly for the looks, Favored Class: Any, and free feat/skill points.
Bard - For serving as a handmaiden entertaining warriors in the hall of the slain. For magic to help her in dealing with mortal affairs. For Inspire Courage as well.
Cleric - For her divine powers in granting boon or smiting foe. For the Domain access and Devotion feats, mostly.
Crusader - Devoted Spirit and White Raven, as expected.
Deity - Odin (Travel, War) or Freya (Air, Magic)


And then, here's my need-to-accomplish:

A way to make her look mortal-ish while in their company (hide wings, etc.).
Party face skills/spells. She is expected to converse a lot with royalty figures after all.
A good selection of spells (preferably divine) to reflect the valkyrie's power in deciding the fate of a warrior on the battlefield. Most likely buffs/debuffs.


For this one, I don't plan on entering a PrC, so Favored Class management is a must for no XP penalty. Although, if you can suggest a tempting PrC I might consider it. :smallredface:

So, tips on how to make this halfway decent? Feats, skills, maneuvers, class progression, even must-have magic items? Assume that this would enter gameplay with ECL of 10, giving us 6 class levels to play with. For the ceiling, let us assume ECL 30 for that Epic-but-not-Godlike vibe.

Or if there's an existing build, you could point me there and save ourselves the trouble. :smalltongue:

Thanks in advance!

Starbuck_II
2011-01-21, 09:54 AM
Here's my (not very good) plan:

Half-Celestial Template - I considered an Aasimar, but felt their benefits coming short. Plus, I really wanted those celestial wings granting good flight maneuverability. +4 LA doesn't seem so bad for that and then some.
Human - mainly for the looks, Favored Class: Any, and free feat/skill points.
Bard - For serving as a handmaiden entertaining warriors in the hall of the slain. For magic to help her in dealing with mortal affairs. For Inspire Courage as well.
Cleric - For her divine powers in granting boon or smiting foe. For the Domain access and Devotion feats, mostly.
Crusader - Devoted Spirit and White Raven, as expected.
Deity - Odin (Travel, War) or Freya (Air, Magic)


And then, here's my need-to-accomplish:

A way to make her look mortal-ish while in their company (hide wings, etc.).
Party face skills/spells. She is expected to converse a lot with royalty figures after all.
A good selection of spells (preferably divine) to reflect the valkyrie's power in deciding the fate of a warrior on the battlefield. Most likely buffs/debuffs.


For this one, I don't plan on entering a PrC, so Favored Class management is a must for no XP penalty. Although, if you can suggest a tempting PrC I might consider it. :smallredface:

So, tips on how to make this halfway decent? Feats, skills, maneuvers, class progression, even must-have magic items? Assume that this would enter gameplay with ECL of 10, giving us 6 class levels to play with. For the ceiling, let us assume ECL 30 for that Epic-but-not-Godlike vibe.

Or if there's an existing build, you could point me there and save ourselves the trouble. :smalltongue:

Thanks in advance!

I don't usually advocate 1/2 celestial as the +4 LA, but fine.
Hat of Disguise covers hiding wings and looking mortal.
So you looking at a little Crusader or a lot?
Are you looking to be mainly casting Divine or Arcane?
You could do Bard 3/Cleric 1/Crusader 2
The reason for putting Crusader last is so you get the feat that combines Bard/Crusader for Inspire Courage: Song of White Raven.
Bard is for now Favored (as it is highest level class).
This grants 2nd level maneuvers (Cleric +Bard =4/2=2. 2+1=3, so both Crusader levels can choose 2nd level or lower maneuvers.
Still limited to 1st level Stances at 1st though).
Crusader adds Steely Resolve: meaning you can hold off 5 damage 2 rounds (unless healed) than take the damage, helping you survive longer.
You add Cha to Will saves.

yldenfrei
2011-01-21, 10:20 AM
So you looking at a little Crusader or a lot?
Are you looking to be mainly casting Divine or Arcane?

I was thinking it would be a lot of crusader and a lot of divine, with the bard spells mostly for out-of-combat illusions and enchantments. I plan on taking Able Learner as well, for easier Perform skill progression among other useful skills.

Also, Doomspeak, yes? No? It makes for a good "chooser of the slain" fluff, too.

T.G. Oskar
2011-01-21, 11:29 AM
The first thing I do when thinking about the title is "isn't there another Valkyrie in Deities and Demigods? And yes, it does, and it's pretty close to what you're trying to build.

For starters: the Deities and Demigods Valkyrie is a 20th level Paladin with divine rank 0. Starting from level 10 and working with martial adepts means you can reliably replace Paladin with Crusader (I have my issues with that, but for purposes of your request it's entirely fine to suggest so). I don't see the point of Bard in this, but if you MUST have it, then at least go with Song of the White Raven; it allows you to stack Crusader and Bard ranks for Inspire Courage and also allows you to use Inspire Courage as a standard action while using a White Raven stance. Leading the Charge is the basic stance to activate, with Tactics of the Wolf a close second. Cleric is just pushing it, though, but so as long as you keep Bard and Cleric no more than one level away, you can do fine with favored class requirements (Crusader will be your highest level class anyways, so...). Still, I'd say you'd do fine with a single-level Crusader, since the spell-like abilities you'll get don't depend on either Int or Wis and in any case their DC depends on Charisma, which Crusader favors over Wisdom anyways. You can gain Domain feats on your own, but only two which are thematically fitting with each other; Cleric only allows you to get one extra Domain feat by sacrificing one domain, and what you'll get from domains isn't usually enough. Three daily uses of Protection from Evil with a caster level equal to your character level should suffice, Aid is when you need some lasting aid, and most of the other feats are just complements to your main ability (maneuvers), so you can ditch Cleric if you want to.

As for feats...aside from Song of the White Raven (if having Bard levels), you'll need to define which kind of Crusader you'll be. You can be either a lockdown Crusader, which will prefer using a reach weapon, probably good Dex and Combat Reflexes, and then go Stand Still and Thicket of Blades (as a gained stance). That way, you'll have them still near you, and you can use attacks of opportunity to force them to stay still, while you bash on them with your weapon. Or, you can be a supportive Crusader, using White Raven maneuvers, White Raven Defense (which is kinda meh, but its a +1 *untyped* bonus to AC) and Clarion Commander, and just play with action economy. As for Domain feats...it's a tough choice. Choosing Odin allows you to get Knowledge Devotion and Trickery Devotion, which means you get the two best domain feats there are, but it won't fit a lot with your PC concept (which seems to be a sort of protector). Choosing Freya makes the choice of domain feats even harder, since Air Devotion is really meh, Good Devotion is so-so and Magic Devotion is WORTHLESS!!!!

As for magic items: Hat of Disguise. You don't want to look inhuman, but you can attempt to disguise your features; that, plus a simple cloak, can allow you to hide your wings with a proper Disguise check. From there, something that helps with attack rolls and defense, mostly. Belt of Battle is always a nice addition, as well as Healing Belt (when having the chance, combine both for a nice belt).

Again: I don't see the Valkyrie using spells (unless being an actual Paladin), so you should focus mostly on the maneuvers. And try to reduce the LA of your character using LA buyoff (though you'll be starting to reduce it at level 12).

Mark Hall
2011-01-21, 12:04 PM
So, tips on how to make this halfway decent? Feats, skills, maneuvers, class progression, even must-have magic items? Assume that this would enter gameplay with ECL of 10, giving us 6 class levels to play with. For the ceiling, let us assume ECL 30 for that Epic-but-not-Godlike vibe.

Or if there's an existing build, you could point me there and save ourselves the trouble. :smalltongue:

Thanks in advance!

I'd probably change it a lot. ;-)

First of all, I'd drop the cleric. While there are some nice abilities there, I think you're going to get more mileage out of concentrating on Bard and Crusader, rather than dipping cleric. If you really want the divine aspect (and Crusader isn't enough), go with Divine Bard (not sure about the attribute synergies, here; I don't see a particular problem with someone devoted to Odin or Freyja being an arcane caster, anyway).

Secondly, for race, I would probably go back to Aasimar, but I would ask my DM if he would allow some of the Aasimar-specific feats from Races of Faerun; these will give you wings, the improved spell-like abilities and the like; LA 1 and some feats are, in my mind, cheaper than LA +4, especially since CL 10 you can have bought off the LA.

Thus, at LA 10, you're looking at 5/5 Bard/Crusader, or maybe a 5/4 with a touch of experience to go to 5/5. It avoids any potential XP penalties, and has a lot of strong options, while remaining an Inspirational Leader fighter type... with wings.

Fouredged Sword
2011-01-21, 12:24 PM
I would consider a 2 level dip in swordsage for a set of martial abilites that you have all the time, wiz to AC when in mitheril, and sudden leap for awsome low level mobility.

I would consider just rotating crusader 1/bard 1/ swordsage 1 to level 6 then going Crusader 1 / Bard 1 to 20, with swordsage as the favored class to prevent multiclass penelties.

Lateral
2011-01-21, 01:19 PM
Definitely drop Cleric; if you need the divine flavor, go Aasimar Divine Bard and just have 14 wisdom-- some kind of Bard is more Valkyrie flavor anyway. Get wings the way Mark Hall said, and go Bard 4/ Crusader 16. You'll have good Inspire Courage, an IL of 18, and 3rd level bard spells.

Master_Rahl22
2011-01-21, 01:31 PM
You might consider Ruby Knight Vindicator, as it combines maneuver progression with divine casting. You can refluff the deity requirement if desired. I'll second the Song of the White Raven feat as a very good way to combine Bard and Crusader benefits.

If you're set on having 3 different progressions (divine casting, arcane casting, martial maneuvers) then you'll probably want to pursue a theurge type PrC that will progress two of them. You could use RKV as mentioned above or find one to progress your Cleric and Bard casting and just splash levels of Crusader at intervals. Every 4 levels of a non-ToB class will grant you access to a new level of maneuvers, so a common way to splash ToB is Class X 4/ ToB 1/X 4/ToB 1 etc. You won't have many maneuvers known, but you can access some of the higher level maneuvers without a large investment of levels in the class itself.

yldenfrei
2011-01-21, 07:41 PM
OK, very helpful tips there, thanks!

I've always viewed Valkyries not as the leading damage dealer in the battlefield, rather they are that altering force in determining the tide of battle. After all, it's the mortal fighters and warriors, not the valkyries, who must prove their worth in battle to be eligible for Valhalla/Sessrumnir. I think cleric buff/debuff spells give substance to that fluff nicely. But, if you guys think Bard/Cleric/Crusader is too unwieldy or too cheesy, I think I can try something else. :smalltongue:

So, Faerunian Aasimar Divine Bard/Crusader. With this I think I can work on dropping the Cleric and just gear the Bard spells for healing and buff/debuff. Aasimar's Favored Class: Paladin would mean close Bard/Crusader levels though, but at least it gives better spells known for the Bard. Still on the fence regarding Faerunian Aasimar/Half-Celestial Human though.

Question:

Faerunian Aasimar racial feats. Do I acquire them as I level up, or do I have to purchase the feats myself? If the LA +1 simply grants me access to those feats, that would be bad if LA buyoff is not allowed. Not to mention eating up feat slots I could better spend on something else.
Also, what do those associated weapons under each discipline mean? Are they just for fluff, or do they have mechanical restrictions? :smallconfused:

Greenish
2011-01-21, 07:47 PM
Also, what do those associated weapons under each discipline mean? Are they just for fluff, or do they have mechanical restrictions? :smallconfused:
They interact with some class features and feats.

true_shinken
2011-01-21, 08:26 PM
It shall be engraved upon your soul!
Human (Winged template) Crusader 20
Divine assault: Nibelung Valesti! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74T5KTohL7M)

yldenfrei
2011-01-21, 08:54 PM
It shall be engraved upon your soul!
Human (Winged template) Crusader 20
Divine assault: Nibelung Valesti! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74T5KTohL7M)
Yes, I was wondering when she'll pop up. :smallamused:

I've half a mind to make a PC build for the three sisters, TBH. Preferably VP2:S inspired.

And while we're on the subject, can anyone suggest a feat/spell/item/other stuff that could emulate that holy spear-throwing goodness? I was thinking along the lines of paralyzing javelins and one heavily imbued longspear. Are custom anchoring weapons even possible? :smallbiggrin:

Hmm, where do I find the winged template? I hadn't considered that one...

Lateral
2011-01-21, 09:34 PM
Winged template would work great if you don't need an Upper-Plane-themed race. IIRC, it's in Savage Species.

Fouredged Sword
2011-01-21, 10:13 PM
Another thought would be a pegisus mount and mounted combat. Valkri in many legends rode winged horses rather than had wings themselves. The ability to ride by attack with a martial strike would be powerful. Talk to your DM about allowing it as a feat or get one through PRC paladin levels (divine bard base maybe?).

Analytica
2011-01-21, 10:34 PM
Hmmm. How would I do this?

Maybe bard 2/druid 3/green whisperer 5/arcane hierophant 10/as much mystic theurge as required? Casting at level 20 as a druid 18/bard 17. Lots and lots of utility spells and buffs, no real arcane spell failure, and the primal feel may fit with the deities in question. Problem is limitation to druid armors, so no metal armor unless you use a variant druid of some sort. Use a spear for the odinite feel. Shapeshift into animals, or use alter self on yourself into a winged humanoid version of yourself (looking like you would if you were an avariel elf, say) as you transform into full winged valkyrie form for battle.

Alternately, cleric/crusader/ruby knight vindicator for a maneuver-using divine spellcaster. Fluff the verbal components as songs and chants.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-01-21, 11:36 PM
Another thought would be a pegisus mount and mounted combat. Valkri in many legends rode winged horses rather than had wings themselves. The ability to ride by attack with a martial strike would be powerful. Talk to your DM about allowing it as a feat or get one through PRC paladin levels (divine bard base maybe?).

The DMG states a paladin can have a Pegasus as a special mount at level 7, if that helps at all. Another option to consider is the "Valiant Steed" spell in the Book of Exalted Deeds, though that might be a little too late, and the fourth level Paladin spell in the same book, "winged Mount' which grants your mount wings.. This is way too late to be used as a paladin spell, but with prestige paladin it seems a bit more reasonable.

T.G. Oskar
2011-01-22, 02:04 AM
But, if you guys think Bard/Cleric/Crusader is too unwieldy or too cheesy, I think I can try something else. :smalltongue:


Thing is, that combination is pretty good (Cleric spells are very nice as a boost to the Crusader's power, and the Bard's Inspire Courage and minor arcane spellcasting makes it so that you add even more support), but there's the caveat of "no PrC".

If the PrC option was available, then I'd tell you to dive into Ruby Knight Vindicator. The fluff is definitely NOT for a Valkyrie, but the main concept (blending Crusader maneuvers with Cleric spellcasting) definitely boosts your maneuvers and your spells. Since you won't use Turn Undead to actually turn undead, this allows you to use it for something else: specifically, to gain extra swift actions (hence extra boosts), part of the reason it is usually called "Ruby Knight Windicator".

Using Half-Celestial as the template for the character, you could start with Crusader 3/Bard 1/Cleric 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 1 (refluffed so that Odin grants the ability to enter), which would grant you several nice benefits: first, you'd get three stances (which means you could qualify for Thicket of Blades or Tactics of the Wolf) and you'd get another stance while at it; second, you'd raise both your Crusader initiation and your Cleric spellcasting, ending up with IL 14th and CL 9th, and with the ability to choose 7th level maneuvers and 5th level spells; third, you'd get a new choice of maneuver alongside what you'd usually get (Shadow Hand, if you're interested; however, if you're gonna refluff it, you could use Iron Heart instead). Since the class has 10 levels worth of abilities, you'd get topped at level 15th (and ECL 19th), making you very effective as a character at higher levels (since 7th level maneuvers are AWESOME), though without full BAB (but you have Divine Power so that's inconsequential). Using the Aasimar, you'd get 3 more levels which you could place on Crusader, getting 9th level maneuvers AND BAB over 16th, arguably very good before Epic because that way you'd be capable of raising your Cleric and Bard levels with impunity while getting maneuvers sparingly. With PGtF's Lesser Aasimar you get pretty much no level loss, meaning you could get to be Crusader 8/Cleric 1/Bard 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator and get your Inspire Courage bonus to 2, along with Steely Resolve and Furious Counterstrike providing a greater bonus.

However, this is only IF you consider to work with PrCs and refluffing the RKV class to fit the idea of a valkyrie. The mount can be provided, but the key concept is essential, and while you might see yourself with very few bard powers at first, the ability to get Cleric spells and Crusader maneuvers comes first. If you're trying to do this single-classed, it's not worth it because multiclassing requires a dedicated effort and usually works with two classes that synergize well: Cleric and Crusader do that somewhat, but Cleric and Bard rarely do so (unless you're an Initiate of Milil, but that requires even greater refluffing and would be debatable to get), which would shoot you in the foot somewhat.


Question:

Faerunian Aasimar racial feats. Do I acquire them as I level up, or do I have to purchase the feats myself? If the LA +1 simply grants me access to those feats, that would be bad if LA buyoff is not allowed. Not to mention eating up feat slots I could better spend on something else.
Also, what do those associated weapons under each discipline mean? Are they just for fluff, or do they have mechanical restrictions? :smallconfused:


1) You only gain access to them, much like other racial feats, or most other feats. You still need to expend feat slots for them, so unless they're really good then it wouldn't be so bad. Still, if you're a Lesser Aasimar, while not an outsider per se you'd be without LA (really, Lesser Aasimar get no level adjustment) so you'd get the same amount of feat slots.

2) The associated weapons are merely fluff. Only Blade Meditation and a few other classes make use of them, but for the better part you could use a spiked chain with a Devoted Spirit strike and it wouldn't do anything.

Runestar
2011-01-22, 03:10 AM
In deities and demigods, valkyries are paladin20s with divine rank 0.

yldenfrei
2011-01-22, 04:32 AM
Oookay, I think I'm starting to get sold on a refluffed Ruby Knight Vindicator. Maybe a Battle-Maiden of Odin, some sort of elite strike force. The "No PrC" was only self imposed, as I have found myself overly fond of them. :smallamused:

As for the pegasus mount, I think I can work it out via Valiant Steed. That would require me an extra Cleric+2/Bard+1 to reach 6th-level. It would only see the Material Plane in an open battlefield, anyways.

As for the Paladin suggestion, I'm not sure. If I'm using Faerunian Aasimar, perhaps. But with Half-Celestial Human it becomes a bit redundant with the racial bonuses and RKV, and I'd get better use for a Cleric instead. Again, the mechanical concept I'm aiming for is battlefield controller, secondary tank, secondary (or even primary) healer. Also, with the Paladin there's the caveat of LG requirement, something that I don't think will work with this version of valkyrie I'm aiming for.

EDIT:
Question:
Martial Lore skill. How important are they? Seems to me it's a specialized UMD/Spellcraft thing for the martial adept. Do martial scripts function like scrolls and are therefore one use only?

Grumman
2011-01-22, 06:47 AM
If you want a winged, angelic PC, I'd suggest using the rules for a Raptoran with the Saint template. It's only a +2 LA instead of +4, which makes it somewhat more useful.

Mark Hall
2011-01-22, 10:35 AM
Faerunian Aasimar racial feats. Do I acquire them as I level up, or do I have to purchase the feats myself? If the LA +1 simply grants me access to those feats, that would be bad if LA buyoff is not allowed. Not to mention eating up feat slots I could better spend on something else.

Just access, but (IIRC) it's not a huge amount to get flight... perhaps 1 or 2.

Czin
2011-01-22, 10:36 AM
Help, help, help
Help is appreciated! :smallbiggrin:

So there I was, reading Tome of Battle and trying to figure out why people love it. I came across the Valkyrie monster and was somewhat disappointed by their savage and Fury-like depiction. So I decided to make myself a Valkyrie themed PC, doubling as my martial adept practice character.

The fluff is a traditional warrior-maiden, flying over the battlefield, with a shortspear/shield or a longsword/shield in hand. She dons a mithral breastplate, but should also perform well with no armor. Her mandate is to choose a kingdom to which she will grant her--and by extension her god's--favor, ensuring a most excellent crop of slain warriors to send to her god's hall.

Here's my (not very good) plan:

Half-Celestial Template - I considered an Aasimar, but felt their benefits coming short. Plus, I really wanted those celestial wings granting good flight maneuverability. +4 LA doesn't seem so bad for that and then some.
Human - mainly for the looks, Favored Class: Any, and free feat/skill points.
Bard - For serving as a handmaiden entertaining warriors in the hall of the slain. For magic to help her in dealing with mortal affairs. For Inspire Courage as well.
Cleric - For her divine powers in granting boon or smiting foe. For the Domain access and Devotion feats, mostly.
Crusader - Devoted Spirit and White Raven, as expected.
Deity - Odin (Travel, War) or Freya (Air, Magic)


And then, here's my need-to-accomplish:

A way to make her look mortal-ish while in their company (hide wings, etc.).
Party face skills/spells. She is expected to converse a lot with royalty figures after all.
A good selection of spells (preferably divine) to reflect the valkyrie's power in deciding the fate of a warrior on the battlefield. Most likely buffs/debuffs.


For this one, I don't plan on entering a PrC, so Favored Class management is a must for no XP penalty. Although, if you can suggest a tempting PrC I might consider it. :smallredface:

So, tips on how to make this halfway decent? Feats, skills, maneuvers, class progression, even must-have magic items? Assume that this would enter gameplay with ECL of 10, giving us 6 class levels to play with. For the ceiling, let us assume ECL 30 for that Epic-but-not-Godlike vibe.

Or if there's an existing build, you could point me there and save ourselves the trouble. :smalltongue:

Thanks in advance!

There are Valkyries in the Tome of battle? :smallconfused: I thought that they were only in the Deities and Demigods book.

T.G. Oskar
2011-01-22, 12:03 PM
There are Valkyries in the Tome of battle? :smallconfused: I thought that they were only in the Deities and Demigods book.

Yes, they decided to update the Valkyrie as a ToB monster. They are known as "storm angels", are always chaotic neutral, ugly as heck, and they wield two shocking bladed weapons. They're also prone to fighting, usually singling the warrior with the best merit in sight and do fights to the death in order to prove their merit. They also flow from Odin's blood or something.

Really, they'd better be called "Storm Angels" and be treated differently. Then again, the only original thing they spawned in terms of monsters was the Reth Dekala; maneuvers weren't supported by monsters pretty much at all.


EDIT:
Question:
Martial Lore skill. How important are they? Seems to me it's a specialized UMD/Spellcraft thing for the martial adept. Do martial scripts function like scrolls and are therefore one use only?

It's a moderately useful skill, in that it's better if you're facing other martial adepts. It's not like UMD and definitely like Spellcraft, in that you need it to identify unknown martial scrolls (but IIRC you can use read magic on them) and to identify maneuvers (though you can figure out the maneuver anyways). If you're the only one that has martial maneuvers, Martial Lore doesn't bring anything new. It's not as useless as Perform (weapon drill) or the Profession skill, but nowhere near as useful as Tumble, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen or, for closer yet better skills, Balance and Appraise.

yldenfrei
2011-01-22, 12:04 PM
If you want a winged, angelic PC, I'd suggest using the rules for a Raptoran with the Saint template. It's only a +2 LA instead of +4, which makes it somewhat more useful.
My issue with the Raptoran is that the character is effectively born on the Material Plane/Midgard, with the Saint template elevating her to Celestial status. It's actually the reverse of what I'm trying to do. The same thing could be argued against the Aasimar it seems.

My concept is that the Valkyrie's birthplace is Asgard as a full Celestial servant to the Aesir Gods. She was then sent to Midgard for her mission, where she is required to have a mortal body; hence the transformation to half-celestial human. Her class progression is interpreted as a graduated reclaiming of knowledge from her Celestial persona.

OK, so more or less I'm set for the Valkyrie's race and class progression. Now comes the dicey part: Researching Original Spells.

Here's some of the spells my character needs to have:

Soul Ascension - A willing Good or True Neutral creature is killed, his soul transported straight to Asgard, either to Odin's Valhalla or Freya's Sessrumnir (whichever the Valkyrie is serving). He retains all his racial abilities, templates and class levels. His type changes to outsider. He can bring his equipment with him, but only if they were replicated by the valkyrie's etherize item. This spell also works on dying or recently dead Good or True Neutral creatures whose souls have not yet traveled to their respective afterlife (usually staying on the Material Plane for 24 hours after death). Soul Ascension can also be used on a soul bound creature, allowing him to ascend to Asgard thereby freeing up a slot for Soul Binding.
Banished Soul - when cast upon an evil creature, his soul is branded with a special symbol, forbidding him to enter Asgard under any circumstance. Only an Asgardian Intermediate Deity has the power to remove such marks. Will only work when creature's hitpoints is below half his total hitpoints. Also works on dying (but not dead) creatures.
Etherize Item - a magical item is replicated in ether form and bound to the soul of its owner, ensuring that the creature will be able to use it in the afterlife. A valkyrie can bind a number of magical items equivalent to her ECL to a single person. Consumable items (potions, scrolls, charged wands, etc.) cannot be etherized. Component: an amount of ether equivalent to the magical item's weight.
Etherize Gold - Transforms gold pieces into ether, to be used as incorporeal component for the valkyrie's custom spells and other transactions with Asgard. 100 gold pieces can be transmuted into 1 lb worth of ether. A valkyrie can etherize 100gp for every caster level.
Soul Binding - the valkyrie has the power to bind the soul of a recently dead Good or True Neutral creature into her custody. The ritual must be performed within 24 hours after the creature's death. Soul bound creatures retain their racial abilities, templates, and class levels. They will also be able to use any magical item bound to them via etherize item. A valkyrie can bind a number of souls equal to her ECL/3. When the valkyrie's Soul Binding slots are full, she can perform Soul Ascension on one of them to free up one space.
Materialize Soul - the valkyrie has the power to materialize a soul to aid her in battle (lasts 1 round for every caster level). This spell works like summon monster, except the creatures available for summoning are taken from the valkyrie's Soul Binding list. The soul bound creature can use his etherized magical items, or a weapon, armor and shield (if soul bound creature needs it) each with +1 enhancement (+1 every 4 caster level, maximum of +5 total).


The first four are required. The last two are optional.

A very tall order, I know. So how do I go about this? Suggested Cleric Level, Component, Range, Casting Time, etc? Assume that Cleric 6 is max for my character.

If this list goes on too long or too complicated, I might end up with a Homebrew Valkyrie PrC after all. :smallsigh:

Greenish
2011-01-22, 12:20 PM
My issue with the Raptoran is that the character is effectively born on the Material Plane/Midgard, with the Saint template elevating her to Celestial status. It's actually the reverse of what I'm trying to do. The same thing could be argued against the Aasimar it seems.I think he's suggesting that you use the crunch of a saint raptoran to represent your own fluff, which it seems to do pretty well.

true_shinken
2011-01-22, 12:26 PM
OK, so more or less I'm set for the Valkyrie's race and class progression. Now comes the dicey part: Researching Original Spells.

Omg, you really are Lenneth!
Can't blame you though. Everyone wants to be the one saying 'come to me, dark warriors. battle awaits us' or 'it cannot end like this! I shall not allow it'.

T.G. Oskar
2011-01-22, 12:41 PM
Omg, you really are Lenneth!
Can't blame you though. Everyone wants to be the one saying 'come to me, dark warriors. battle awaits us' or 'it cannot end like this! I shall not allow it'.

Zing! Thought the same once I saw the post; really trying to work with Lenneth. However, consider that Lenneth is to an extent a minor goddess; at most, she's a Divine Rank 1 goddess (a demigoddess, since she has some unique abilities plus she can't really die, period). I'd suggest working the Alicia/Silmeria gist, where Einherjar work in unison with PCs, and make Einherjar temporary cohorts that grant the PC benefits when sent to Valhalla.

Really: most of the "spells" I see here work better as incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm), but without drawbacks. Or better yet, some sort of ritual. Making them spells means you need to have a few of those in your spell slots, while on the other hand you can have most of the fluffier ones (Soul Binding is an example).

Also: there's an Einherjar "template" in Deities and Demigods, which is equivalent to creating a quasi-deity. You can argue that they're only quasi-deities (or hero deities) in Valhalla, and if summoned to the Material Plane they're no better than what they were beforehand. Others work better with the Ghost template from Ghostwalk (if you have it).

Still: the concepts introduced in Valkyrie Profile are extremely hard to adjudicate, so most things will really have to go. Valkyrie (even though the soul at the moment is Lenneth, or Silmeria, the actual goddess is called "Valkyrie") is really overpowered for a campaign, so the best way to deal with it is fluffing the concept a la VP2 and tone down the power. Nibelung Valesti is a "cutscene" move, and meant to be used as an exorcism ritual; hardly anything in Tome of Battle resembles that (if you want a better gauge of how Tome of Battle works, see SaGa games or Seiken Densetsu 3/Legend of Mana and their finishing moves).

ZeroNumerous
2011-01-22, 01:19 PM
Preface: I do not like the fluff you have presented as a "proper" Valkyrie, but that's just a personal pet peeve that I will not go into. I will, however, say that you should have been upfront about your request for build advice geared toward a Valkyrie Profile character.

Build: I really suggest Winged Human Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 3/Prestige Bard 1 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard). Assuming your character is TN. Winged Template gives you wings(duh), and the celestial nature can easily be regarded as fluff(push comes to shove, ask to be a Winged Lesser Aasimar as that actually is Celestial in nature).

Cleric 4+RKV 3 means Cleric 6 casting, Crusader 1+RKV 3 means a good mix of mostly devoted spirit maneuvers and Prestige Bard 1 gives one very important thing: Inspire Courage. By proxy, that means you can pick up Dragonfire Inspiration(refluff as "divine fire") to make your valkyrie into a real damage buffer by picking up various ways to optimize inspire courage. The only issue concerning picking up Prestige Bard is getting Perform as an in class skill. I would ask your DM about it, but if he refuses then Skill Knowledge(Unearthed Arcana) or the Entertainer Apprentice(DMGII) feats will grant Perform as a permanent in class skill.

Combining your Cleric casting, ability to Inspire Courage(buffed by Dragonfire Inspiration) and Maneuvers together gives you a diverse skill set while retaining the core Valkyrie-as-buffer concept you had in mind.

yldenfrei
2011-01-22, 06:18 PM
While a 'proper' valkyrie may indeed be misleading, I am not explicitly trying to recreate a Lenneth Valkyrie build with this one. Hence my insistence on retaining bard and my acceptance of the pegasus mount suggestions (although in truth, I am actually looking for a raven-winged wolf mount). Also, regarding the original spells, like I said only the first four are required. The first two are paramount to any valkyrie concept as choosers of the slain. The next two are just functional spells for NPCs with "I call it Vera" weapons/armors, and generally for ensuring the soul has a chance at Ragnarok. The last two are, again, optional. And the Nibelung Valesti request was merely a joke to true_shinken's link. :smalltongue:

I try to work with the depictions of the valkyries in the mythology, where they are not only defined as warrior maidens, but also as some sort of muse. If there are overlaps with Valkyrie Profile, I blame my small reference pool, for which I apologize. :smallredface:

Still, had I specifically requested a Valkyrie Profile build, that would considerably narrow down suggestions. I may not be using Faerunian Aasimar now or a Raptoran Saint or a winged human, but when the DM says no to half-celestial human, it's good to have other options to fall back on.

Now, as to why I seem stubborn with half-celestial human, it's just that I'm not fond of refluffing when there's something else that meets the requirements as is. For me, refluffing Raptoran Saint or Winged Human is a cop-out for just trying to avoid the high LA+ of half-celestial, which fits the bill nicely. I am seriously considering Faerunian Aasimar, although their FC: Paladin requires very close base class Bard/Cleric/Crusader progression.

Regarding Incantations instead of Original Spells. Their risks involved and skill checks per casting do not seem worth the spell slot they would free up. And since I'll have cleric spell levels anyway, why risk it? I think it's only appropriate that the valkyrie is required to allot divine power to such spells she is expected to use to perform her duties.

As for the Prestige Bard, how do I fulfill the arcane spellcasting requirement?

Greenish
2011-01-22, 06:26 PM
My concept is that the Valkyrie's birthplace is Asgard as a full Celestial servant to the Aesir Gods. She was then sent to Midgard for her mission, where she is required to have a mortal body; hence the transformation to half-celestial human.

Now, as to why I seem stubborn with half-celestial human, it's just that I'm not fond of refluffing when there's something else that meets the requirements as is. For me, refluffing Raptoran Saint or Winged Human is a cop-out for just trying to avoid the high LA+ of half-celestial, which fits the bill nicely.So refluffing half-celestial (a child of a celestial and a mortal) into full celestial allows you to avoid refluffing.

Just sayin'. :smallwink:

yldenfrei
2011-01-22, 06:46 PM
So refluffing half-celestial (a child of a celestial and a mortal) into full celestial allows you to avoid refluffing.

Just sayin'. :smallwink:

Strangely enough, yes. The half-celestial human or Faerunian Aasimar is basically a union of the celestial and the mortal. The fusion of her Celestial persona to a mortal human body practically "gave birth" to her new half-celestial form. That's so much easier to explain away than a Raptoran Saint or a Winged Human, which are decidedly mortal in origin.

That is one of the finer points of her character development, actually. Her descent to the Material Plane and her infusion with a mortal body effectively revoked her of full celestial status. She can no longer return to Asgard, unless she dies, or performs Soul Ascension on herself. Problem is, does she have a soul to begin with?

Prime32
2011-01-22, 07:03 PM
That's so much easier to explain away than a Raptoran Saint or a Winged Human, which are decidedly mortal in origin.Saints are Outsiders... There is nothing mechanical about a raptoran saint which contradicts your concept. Meanwhile, a half-celestial is highly vulnerable to effects based on HD (such as blasphemy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blasphemy.htm)) for no real reason, and can't be used at low levels.

And seriously, even Paizo has done stuff like giving a cursed human the stats of a yuan-ti halfblood because he has similar abilities. There was a whole article in Dragon (Dungeon?) on refluffed monsters, such as a two-headed relative of the hydra which used the troll's stats, and a densely-packed insect-shaped mass of insects that bled insects which used the roc's stats.

EDIT: See this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a)

Grumman
2011-01-22, 11:22 PM
That's so much easier to explain away than a Raptoran Saint or a Winged Human, which are decidedly mortal in origin.
"Hey guys, I'm going to use the rules for a Raptoran with the Saint template to represent my Angel character."
"Okay."

I've done it before, with particularly martial Humans represented by the rules for Dwarves or Goliaths.

woodenbandman
2011-01-22, 11:23 PM
berzerker from deities and demigods
Divine Crusader from Complete Arcane.

EDIT: Favored soul from complete arcane. Hands down.

yldenfrei
2011-01-23, 01:12 AM
"Hey guys, I'm going to use the rules for a Raptoran with the Saint template to represent my Angel character."
"Okay."

I've done it before, with particularly martial Humans represented by the rules for Dwarves or Goliaths.
:smalleek:
Is it really that easy to let such concepts fly with the DM?

BoeD has a section devoted to the mechanics of Sainthood, and I feel it unfair to just bypass them and slap on the Saint template where convenient. And I can't for the life of me find a way to write in a sainthood episode in my valkyrie's origin story. Raptorans are also distinctly avian in appearance, what with their feathers-for-hair and talons-for-feet. That would be something, though, given the valkyries' association with swans.

Okay, so good point on high LA PCs being vulnerable to HD related spells. Spell resistance might be a little comfort. (But then there's the hassle of voluntarily lowering spell resistance as standard action just so someone else could heal you or something.)

It may take me a while to get used to treating D&D entries as purely mechanical, and have myself supply the entire accompanying fluff.

Grumman
2011-01-23, 05:00 AM
:smalleek:
Is it really that easy to let such concepts fly with the DM?
That depends on the DM. But as long as the fluff and the crunch match up and the fluff isn't contorted in ridiculous ways to achieve that, there's no reason why it shouldn't fly.


BoeD has a section devoted to the mechanics of Sainthood, and I feel it unfair to just bypass them and slap on the Saint template where convenient.
The only restriction you wouldn't satisfy is the "extraordinary sacrifice". But since this is a one-off event with no lasting consequences for later gameplay, this can be considered a fluff-based restriction. If you've got a good justification for why your character is a Saint-like creature (and being a Valkyrie counts), I'd have no problem with lifting that restriction during character creation.

Prime32
2011-01-23, 07:44 AM
:smalleek:
Is it really that easy to let such concepts fly with the DM?The DMG even tells you to. The example given is a Robin Hood campaign where only humans exist. Players can still be members of other races mechanically, but in flavour terms they'll all be humans. (Friar Tuck might be a dwarf for example, and Robin Hood an elf). Otherwise you're strangling the number of possible builds, and arbitrarily cutting Robin off from half the archery-related abilities in the game.

There's also a bunch of examples of creatures being transformed into half-fiends from exposure to fiendish energy, rather than being born as them. Or creatures transforming themselves into half-dragons without a drop of dragon blood. Is it that hard to reverse it?


Unless you'd prefer this:

Valkyrie base land speed is 30 feet.

Medium: As Medium creatures, valkyries have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Wings of Asgard: Valkyries can extend or retract a pair of feathered wings as a free action at will. They can use their wings to help with movement even if they can't fly yet. The extra lift from her wings gives a valkyrie a +10 racial bonus on Jump checks.

Gliding (Ex): A valkyrie can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall of any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Valkyries glide at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability). Even if a valkyrie's maneuverability improves, she can't hover while gliding. A valkyrie can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load. If a valkyrie becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl and powerful ligaments stiffen the wings. The valkyrie descends in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter what the actual distance of the fall.

Heavenly Flight (Ex): When a valkyrie reaches 5 Hit Dice, she becomes able to fly at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability). A valkyrie can't fly while carrying a medium or heavy load or while fatigued or exhausted. Valkyries can safely fly for a number of rounds equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1 round). They can exert themselves to fly for up to twice as long, but then they're fatigued at the end of the flight. Valkyries are likewise fatigued after spending a total of more than 10 minutes per day flying. Because valkyries can glide before, after, and between rounds of actual flight, they can remain aloft for extended periods (even if they can only use flight for 1 round at a time without becoming fatigued).

When they reach 10 Hit Dice, valkyries have enough stamina and prowess to fly for longer periods. They can fly at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability), and flying requires no more exertion than walking or running. A valkyrie with flight can make a dive attack. A dive attack works like a charge, but the valkyrie must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. A valkyrie can make a dive attack only when wielding a piercing weapon; if the attack hits, it deals double damage. A valkyrie with flight can use the run action while flying, provided she flies in a straight line.

Servant of Odin: Because of their association wih sky deities, valkyrie spellcasters cast spells with the air descriptor at +1 caster level.

Find the Way: Valkyries have an innate ability to find north, south, east and west, even when they are underground or otherwise unable to see the sky or other visual cues. This ability functions only on the Material Plane and Asgard.

Low-Light Vision: A valkyrie can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. A valkyrie retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.

Weapon Familiarity: Valkyries treat the sky lance as a martial weapon rather than as an exotic weapon.

+2 racial bonus on Knowledge (religion) and Sense Motive checks. Valkyries have knowledge of the workings of the gods, and have a keen understanding of others.
The only things I changed were which skills they receive bonuses to and which exotic weapon they're proficient in, which has no effect on their power and isn't particularly significant anyway. I can't post the saint template here.

Greenish
2011-01-23, 08:18 AM
Raptorans are also distinctly avian in appearance, what with their feathers-for-hair and talons-for-feet.Yes, but you wouldn't be a raptoran, you would be a valkyrie, and look like a valkyrie.

Prime, where's sky lance from?

Prime32
2011-01-23, 09:12 AM
Prime, where's sky lance from?I can't remember...

MeeposFire
2011-01-23, 09:20 AM
:smalleek:
Is it really that easy to let such concepts fly with the DM?

BoeD has a section devoted to the mechanics of Sainthood, and I feel it unfair to just bypass them and slap on the Saint template where convenient. And I can't for the life of me find a way to write in a sainthood episode in my valkyrie's origin story. Raptorans are also distinctly avian in appearance, what with their feathers-for-hair and talons-for-feet. That would be something, though, given the valkyries' association with swans.

Okay, so good point on high LA PCs being vulnerable to HD related spells. Spell resistance might be a little comfort. (But then there's the hassle of voluntarily lowering spell resistance as standard action just so someone else could heal you or something.)

It may take me a while to get used to treating D&D entries as purely mechanical, and have myself supply the entire accompanying fluff.

Depends on the DM though usually you are supposed to still follow the mechanical rules. For instance I would allow you to use the saint template on a raptorian but you still need the prerequisite exalted feats and level to take them. Then you can play your Valkyrie looking like you want using the stats of a saint raptorian (I might let the level part slide if you want to start at a lower than 6th level game but I would still require the feats as those have a permanent affect on your character while levels themselves do not).

Another non race example is a player in my game wanted to have a scythe for his warrior but wanted a better version for his fighter in a 4e game. I allowed him to spend a feat on a fullblade and just said that it looked like a scythe. Whenever any rule in the game came up it is a fullblade but it is always represented as a scythe in character.

yldenfrei
2011-01-23, 09:20 AM
Wow. Okay. So that's a refluffed Raptoran. Wow...

I think I'm beginning to see now how to properly approach this. So the Saint template will not actually confer sainthood to the valkyrie in the D&D sense. She will simply be given abilities that are mechanically equivalent to the Saint template.

And even now, with the complete refluff of the Raptoran, the Saint template may not be necessarily acquired on character generation. A sufficiently refluffed Sainthood mechanic can actually serve as in-character development for the valkyrie, when she has gained sufficient knowledge and strength to reclaim her celestial powers.

The remaining thing in my thoughts is: with the refluffing of the Raptoran, how will this affect the Raptoran as a race? Will it effectively remove them from the world, or will there be basically a new race called Valkyrie? If my Valkyrie were ever to meet a Raptoran, will there be a difference between the two? If other people were to meet a Valkyrie, will they be able to distinguish it from a Raptoran?

I don't know why I've always had the notion that the published fluffs are hard and fast... :smallconfused:

Grumman
2011-01-23, 09:34 AM
The remaining thing in my thoughts is: with the refluffing of the Raptoran, how will this affect the Raptoran as a race? Will it effectively remove them from the world, or will there be basically a new race called Valkyrie? If my Valkyrie were ever to meet a Raptoran, will there be a difference between the two? If other people were to meet a Valkyrie, will they be able to distinguish it from a Raptoran?
It will not affect Raptorans at all. People will be able to tell the difference between the two because the Raptoran will look like a Raptoran, and the Valkyrie will look like a Valkyrie.

MeeposFire
2011-01-23, 10:08 AM
Yes while you are using raptorian stats you are not actually a raptorian in game in character. They still look like raptorians and you look like a Valkyrie just don't look at the character sheet:smallwink:.

true_shinken
2011-01-23, 11:57 AM
As a DM, I wouldn't allow one to take the Saint template for refluffing purposes. Saint has RP restrictions, after all. It's not that easy.

Prime32
2011-01-23, 12:29 PM
As a DM, I wouldn't allow one to take the Saint template for refluffing purposes. Saint has RP restrictions, after all. It's not that easy.A valkyrie would be expected to act saintly anyway though. :smallconfused:

yldenfrei
2011-01-23, 06:26 PM
As a DM, I wouldn't allow one to take the Saint template for refluffing purposes. Saint has RP restrictions, after all. It's not that easy.

Actually, that's one of the thoughts playing in my mind, too. Saints have all mortals' well-being as their top priority. They have, shall we say, a firm interest in the peaceful existence of this earthly realm they live in.

Valkyries, on the other hand, have only the will of Odin/Freya as the highest, immutable word. They may be mindful of the well-beings of mortals, but it is not their prime directive. For valkyries, the war being waged on the fields of Asgard and the upcoming Ragnarok are more important than the affairs of this earthly realm. Heck, valkyries are known to manipulate situations and have the most worthy warriors trip and fall to their deaths. Not very saintly.

I also have conflicting thoughts as to what alignments most befit a valkyrie. D&DG posits them on the Lawful Good, which I have some issues with. They are lawful, yes, but only to the word of their God, not to the laws of the mortal realm with which a valkyrie PC operates. In this they are more akin to religious zealots who run the gamut of Law-Chaos spectrum. A forceful intrusion on a private property is not exactly Lawful, but a valkyrie will not even rethink this should her mission require her to reach the person inside. And then there are the True Neutral valkyries, who do nothing but stand by and watch an ongoing battle, searching for worthy warriors to escort to the halls of the slain, waiting for that fateful moment they can intervene and cause said warrior's demise. Bluntly put, valkyries are outsiders and do not adhere to earthly laws (although they can choose to do so, if they like).

This is the main reason why I think Paladin is not the required choice for a valkyrie PC (although it seems the most thematic). They can have many personalities and cannot be restricted by the LG requirement imposed by this class.

Basically, I think valkyries can safely play as LG, NG, CG, and TN.

How about a good refluff of the Sainthood mechanic, retaining RP restrictions, just not for the betterment of the mortal realm? Like for example, Valkyries wishing to reclaim their celestial powers need to have Vow of Obedience (a decidedly middling feat, plus the Sacred Vow requirement so that blows off two feat slots already), reconfirming their complete servitude to the word of their god.

Grumman
2011-01-23, 07:06 PM
I also have conflicting thoughts as to what alignments most befit a valkyrie. D&DG posits them on the Lawful Good, which I have some issues with. They are lawful, yes, but only to the word of their God, not to the laws of the mortal realm with which a valkyrie PC operates.
That's what Lawful means - it means you tend to follow a code or plan, rather than just winging it. It says nothing about whether you follow other people's codes of conduct.


How about a good refluff of the Sainthood mechanic, retaining RP restrictions, just not for the betterment of the mortal realm? Like for example, Valkyries wishing to reclaim their celestial powers need to have Vow of Obedience (a decidedly middling feat, plus the Sacred Vow requirement so that blows off two feat slots already), reconfirming their complete servitude to the word of their god.
Sure, that seems to make sense, but there is no possibility of reclaiming her powers if she loses them.

yldenfrei
2011-01-23, 08:00 PM
That's what Lawful means - it means you tend to follow a code or plan, rather than just winging it. It says nothing about whether you follow other people's codes of conduct.

So, how does one define a Neutral Good or a Chaotic Good Valkyrie, then? Also, would that make my example of a True Neutral Valkyrie a Lawful Neutral Valkyrie instead?


Sure, that seems to make sense, but there is no possibility of reclaiming her powers if she loses them.

Oh, by the reclaiming of celestial powers, I meant the powers she lost via transformation from a full celestial valkyrie to a mortal Valkyrie race PC. For them, the refluffed sainthood is merely a reawakening of their powers. Of course, earning the ire of their gods for some reason would effectively revoke them of that reclaimed power. :smallamused:

Non-sequitur: How much does a custom Hat of Disguise (I'm thinking of Alter Self instead of Disguise Self) cost? I'm terribad with custom magic item creation.

Prime32
2011-01-23, 08:04 PM
So, how does one define a Neutral Good or a Chaotic Good Valkyrie, then? Also, would that make my example of a True Neutral Valkyrie a Lawful Neutral Valkyrie instead?A chaotic good character acts on impulse. A neutral good is just generally a nice person.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulGood
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeutralGood
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticGood


Non-sequitur: How much does a custom Hat of Disguise (I'm thinking of Alter Self instead of Disguise Self) cost? I'm terribad with custom magic item creation.By the DMG formulas it's 18,000gp. (or 16,200gp if it must be activated with a command word as a standard action)

However, if you just want a disguise that's transformation rather than illusion then Alter Self is overkill; it's a combat and utility spell, which replaces your existing abilities. Changelings have a version of disguise self which is a physical transformation but doesn't affect their equipment. There's a psion ACF which trades their 1st level bonus feat for the same thing. So just talk to your DM about it, it's a minor change.