[3.5] so... the DM said "barbarian+VoP+amf? its a joke right?"

[pilvento]

In our campaing we are actually a bard, a cloister cleric, a duskblade gish, and me the werewolf barbarian. in the distant future im planing on geting 10 lvls in Runescared Berserker from Unaprochable east and when the DM found out that anti magic field was part of the spell list he just freaked out, he said it was an abuse since i dont have magic equipment and i can bite, rend, and chop freely.

do u think of this as an abuse? i can only use that spell 1 or 2 times a day, and i learn it at lvl 18. also consider all the rest of the party are casters...

full build is: +2LA/wolf class2/barbarian2/fist of the forest1/warshaper3/runescared berserker10

[Yora]

I say that's the kind of situation these abilities are made for.
And I agree, that your character still seems to be the weakest of the party.

[Gnaritas]

It totally depends on the optimization of the other partymembers.

[GodGoblin]

Absolutley not! Even if you were not a werewolf just a barbarian you could still chop freely in the AMF. And the fact everyone else is a caster is a serious nerf, you probably wont ever use it unless alone.

Oh also can you put up a more detailed build? Sounds exactly like something im trying to make :smallsmile:

[TroubleBrewing]

Yet another example of "melee can't have nice things". I love the RB class. It's mega flavorful, and chock full of new options for berserkers. Seriously, though. The rest of your party are full casters. Why can't you throw down an AMF a couple times per day?

[Douglas]

Exalted feats, unlike normal feats, are supernatural. The instant your AMF goes up, your VoP benefits get suppressed.

So, yes you can still chop away as a barbarian while negating magic around you, but no you don't get to keep your magic-gear-replacement bonuses when you do.

[pilvento]

I say that's the kind of situation these abilities are made for.
And I agree, that your character still seems to be the weakest of the party.

thanks thats what i always try to explain to him. since, againg, i can only bite and chop. and we have 2 and a half full casters. but he is scared since i have more than 30 str at lvl 3.... i cant wait till full moon and rape a town.

[pilvento]

Exalted feats, unlike normal feats, are supernatural. The instant your AMF goes up, your VoP benefits get suppressed.

So, yes you can still chop away as a barbarian while negating magic around you, but no you don't get to keep your magic-gear-replacement bonuses when you do.

wow didnt know that. i think ill consider other runescar 5th lvl spells, like heal, dimensional door, or spell resistance.

[pilvento]

Absolutley not! Even if you were not a werewolf just a barbarian you could still chop freely in the AMF. And the fact everyone else is a caster is a serious nerf, you probably wont ever use it unless alone.

Oh also can you put up a more detailed build? Sounds exactly like something im trying to make :smallsmile:

ill post the full build soon in a new tread, lots of people here help me to make it so at least i can show them the fruist ow their advices

[Escheton]

It's a neat trick and kinda powerfull. But it is in no way overpowered compared to the rest of what goes on at that lvl-range.

Your dm is prolly just not used to high lvl play. By the time the party actually lvls to that point he should have gotten used to it. One way or the other.

[LordBlades]

It's a good combo, and probably one of the very few things that could keep you from being eaten alive by any caster at that level (when you manage to pull it off).

It's by no means overpowered compared to what caster could do at that level (time stop, miracle, wish, not to mention gate; with the right build, the cleric could gate a horde of ethergaunts at that level for example).

[Ernir]

To elaborate on what others here have said... yes, you lose a whole bunch all of the VoP features in an AMF. Sadly.

(Corrected below by Douglas.)

You lose:
The "AC Bonus" (Exalted bonus)
All Exalted feats
Exalted Strike
Deflection bonus to AC
Damage reduction
True Seeing

You keep:
Endure Elements
Sustenance (and the greater variety)
Resistance bonus on saving throws
Ability score enhancements
Natural armor bonus to AC
Mind shielding
Energy resistance
Freedom of Movement
Regeneration

[Douglas]

To elaborate on what others here have said... yes, you lose a whole bunch of the VoP features in an AMF. Sadly.

<snip>

You keep:

No, I'm pretty sure you lose the whole list. The feat itself is supernatural. The status of any particular benefit it grants is irrelevant because the source of the benefit goes away in an AMF.

[GodGoblin]

^ Good point, Its like saying a spell that gives natural armour doesnt go away as natural armour isnt a magical proporty

[Ernir]

No, I'm pretty sure you lose the whole list. The feat itself is supernatural. The status of any particular benefit it grants is irrelevant because the source of the benefit goes away in an AMF.

Didn't notice the Exalted tag on the VoP feat. Never mind me!

[pilvento]

No, I'm pretty sure you lose the whole list. The feat itself is supernatural. The status of any particular benefit it grants is irrelevant because the source of the benefit goes away in an AMF.

that just sucks, dam it... meh still i think is a nice build and good combo, runescars can heal me a LOT.

[Loki Eremes]

Im his future DM.

By now the most overpowered PC onthe party is...ithink...The Cleric.

pilvento comes second on the list.



The reason why im a little scared its that ive never DMed a 1st to 20th level campaing, im afraid of how to control a well optimized party, so im trying to "calm" their progressions a bit.

Im very permissive and in the end, i know i will approve most of their petitions.
But first, wait until he uploads the whole build to emit a judgement xD

[Toliudar]

Loki, I'd say it's great that you're looking that far ahead, but seriously doubt that you'll see it breaking the game.

[Loki Eremes]

The real problem by lvl 3 or 4 is not if he breaks the game,
the problem is if he breaks the party xD

[Diarmuid]

If that is what ends up breaking your game, then your bard and cleric arent pulling their weight =)

[Loki Eremes]

If that is what ends up breaking your game, then your bard and cleric arent pulling their weight =)


this will begin at lvl 3

at that lvl
a Cloister Cleric and a Bard: about 27hp with maximized dice.


If he turns incontrolable, someone is going to die for sure.
If that happens i can "magically" resurrect them using a NPC, considering that at that lvl paying for it is very expensive for the party
If this happens more than once....


Well. Falls on me to think about ways to make this not happen :smalltongue:

[linebackeru]

If he turns incontrolable

Hold Person?

[Brock Samson]

Consider the in-game ramifications if he rages out on his party members. They might put him down "for the good of the people". Especially if this happens more than once.

[Tyger]

Ummm... not to rain on anyone's parade, but how are you working Runescarred with a Vow of Poverty? To scribe a runescar you have to expend materials worth 5gp x spell level x caster level... which you can't have if you have taken the Vow of Poverty.

EDIT: And there is no worry about a Runescarred Berserker killing the whole party - unless of course he chooses to try and wipe them out. The Frenzied Berserker is the one that can accidentally lose it and try to kill everyone.

[Ernir]

Ummm... not to rain on anyone's parade, but how are you working Runescarred with a Vow of Poverty? To scribe a runescar you have to expend materials worth 5gp x spell level x caster level... which you can't have if you have taken the Vow of Poverty.

The "an ascetic spellcaster can sacrifice experience points in place of expensive
components, with 1 XP equivalent to 5 gp value of components" clause might apply here.

[nedz]

AMF is a lvl 6 wiz/sorc spell.
If you had an 11th level Wizard then they could cast AMF for the Barbarian.

For that matter AMF is a 8th level cleric spell, so your cleric could cast it at 15th level. If your Cleric has magic or protection domains then they get it at 11th also.

So the Barb getting at at 18th is quite weak by comparison, not to mention the lack of flexibility.

I'd see how the game develops myself, you never know it might not get that high.:smallcool:

[Runestar]

AMF is likely going to screw you more than your foes, since many of the monsters in the MM don't really rely on magic gear.

VOP will be suppressed in an AMF as well.

[Tyger]

The "an ascetic spellcaster can sacrifice experience points in place of expensive
components, with 1 XP equivalent to 5 gp value of components" clause might apply here.

D'oh! Missed that in the dozen or so times I read that. Thanks!

[Loki Eremes]

The "an ascetic spellcaster can sacrifice experience points in place of expensive
components, with 1 XP equivalent to 5 gp value of components" clause might apply here.


ummm that means he needs to cast spells from slots per day in order for this to happen?

[MeeposFire]

this will begin at lvl 3

at that lvl
a Cloister Cleric and a Bard: about 27hp with maximized dice.


If he turns incontrolable, someone is going to die for sure.
If that happens i can "magically" resurrect them using a NPC, considering that at that lvl paying for it is very expensive for the party
If this happens more than once....


Well. Falls on me to think about ways to make this not happen :smalltongue:

Uncontrollable? Does runescarred have the same problem as frenzied berserker? I did not know that.

[Loki Eremes]

Uncontrollable? Does runescarred have the same problem as frenzied berserker? I did not know that.

Nope, not the Runescar.

The werewolf form

[Kyuu Himura]

I think it's a werewolf thing... I don't know, I have never used werevwolves in any campaign I DM...


EDIT: was that swordsage here all along?? cool...

[MeeposFire]

Nope, not the Runescar.

The werewolf form

Ah so he is afflicted and not natural then? And phew since I did not recall that with runescar.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

I think it's a werewolf thing... I don't know, I have never used werevwolves in any campaign I DM...


EDIT: was that swordsage here all along?? cool...

First it's Ninja'd, and second if the party knows he is a Were why don't they just use silver/fire against him?

[Loki Eremes]

Ah so he is afflicted and not natural then? And phew since I did not recall that with runescar.

Yes, he is afflicted, so those 30 days before full moon will be the longest days in my campaing xD


First it's Ninja'd, and second if the party knows he is a Were why don't they just use silver/fire against him?

Are you suggesting wolficide?

[Tiki Snakes]

Seems like if there's a problem, it's a lot less with Runescarred or AMF, and a lot more with the fact you're allowing an Afflicted Werewolf in the party?

[NekoJoker]

First it's Ninja'd, and second if the party knows he is a Were why don't they just use silver/fire against him?

Coz we want to play it nice to the big doggy of doom? :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, during the first few times we interact we are not even supposed to know he's a werewolf, In Character at least.

hmm, forgot to say hi!

Hello there! Introductions necessary; I'm Pilvento's current DM and in the near future i will be playing the cloistered cleric for Loki Eremes's campaign.

The Runescared Berserker is an unexpected turn of events on his build progression since so far he had only tryed to put out as much damage as he could with a couple of bites, so it is natural that Loki is a bit startled when he finds out he will have to handle yet another fellow who casts spells.

I'd be playing a Cloistered cleric/Church Inquisitor/DivOrcle
Next up is a Bard/Sublime Chord/Virtuoso [so far... havent's seen his full build yet]
and finally a Duskblade gish that is trying to emulate Haseo from .Hack GU games.

Our group "should" be fairly well optimized, so as a matter of fact it "should" not alter the power balance amongst us.

It's just that The DM is not really used to playing with magic, so yeah, anyone would be a bit intimidated.

Back on topic, as a matter of fact i am not much worried about future power levels, at higher levels there are many a character fully capable of owning an army [and i am not specifically talking about US as a group here, just generalizing]

RANT!

MY worst nightmare here [since I would actually be the squishiest character during the first few levels] is having him go berzerk on us, the fella' will have like a +30 in str mod or something [haven't fully analyzed his build yet] so pretty much is one hit KO for me and posibbly the bard.

Of course there are spells to counter this, there are chains that can be put on the character during "that time of the month" and all that jazz, we just don't want to have a problem of this nature: Party Vs BBEG Vs Werewolf

or to have to resort to this kind of tactics every encounter. It would be frustrating for us and the werewolf player

having said that; As long as he can play nice and cooperate I'm fine with any build... so far.

Once again it is true he gets the runescars rather late in the game so it the DM should not be facing much of anything new [at least not if I'm doing my job well]

Back to the build; the AMF will nerf him good, yeah, he should try to get other stuff since he is kindda relying on all the bonuses from VoP, and it would be good if he could get some more flexibility s he's not just stuck with "I attack again, and end my turn"

[pilvento]

MAN this post got really long i just cant belive it, and now my nemesis NekoJoker is here too.

but well i cant think of anything to add to the conversation now. ill post the full build later for the ones that asked.