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Pard
2011-01-29, 02:46 PM
OK, I am building a wizard for a campaign.

The character is a venerable dragonwrought (metallic) kobold. I am basically venerable without any of the problems (even with basic cha. mod my character will not die until he is 1210 years old) that normally come with it.

We are using a 32-point build, making a level four character. I am taking a -4 search flaw (forget the name at the moment) so I start with an extra feat (which is going to be Dragonwrought, thus I do not have to worry about missing any feats). The starting +/- racial for a venerable dragonwrought kobold (who is also Tiny, instead of small. Long story, basically got hit with a perm. reduce spell) are as follows

Str. -6
Dex. +4
Con. -2
Int. +3
Wis. +3
Cha. +3

I am allowed to use most books, including all the RotD feats, and UA stuff for wizards (aka I can roll a Domain Wizard). I have no problem dipping into Sorcerer at level 6 to get the benefits of the Kobold dragon rituals.

Not sure how I want to see this character go, just know he is chaotic evil and wants to conquer the entire world (in order to get back at his kobold village, which shrunk him and banned him.) I'd prefer if Wisdom was not about 10 or 11, as he is not wise in the least. I'm OK with anything else really.

OK go...

The Rabbler
2011-01-29, 02:51 PM
how powerful do you want to be?

this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God) and this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869222/The_Wizards_Handbook) are the two wizard's handbooks I've learned from. They explain the options available for wizards, from races to templates, feats to spells, ACFs to PrCs. Definitely worth a read. Also, I believe one of them does a pretty in-depth analysis of spells.

I'd suggest not going crazy though, unless the rest of your party is pulling out all of the stops as well. There's nothing wrong with building a strong character as long as you don't abuse it.

EDIT: for abilities, I'd go something like:

STR: 4
DEX: 12
CON: 12
INT: 21
WIS: 17
CHA: 13

Pard
2011-01-29, 02:56 PM
Oh, I forgot to add, due to my limited stature (all 10" of kobold...) I wanna have something I can summon to help me out (small+ familiar, golem, ect.).

I do not wanna be to powerful. I am playing a dumbass kobold here who thinks he is the cat's meow but spends most his time riding the tavern he lives in (between the floors) of various pests and occasionally moving into the village to kill anything he perceives as a threat to his "evil kingdom". I wanna have playing him. Maybe a couple parlor tricks or something. And I wanna put my powers towards controlling others (bad guys) and such, no blasting really.

Also, the rest of the party is pulling out the stops too. We will be working together here and there and also going about our separate ways now and then as well. We are all evil and bent on blah blah blah

The Rabbler
2011-01-29, 03:03 PM
Oh, I forgot to add, due to my limited stature (all 10" of kobold...) I wanna have something I can summon to help me out (small+ familiar, golem, ect.).

I do not wanna be to powerful. I am playing a dumbass kobold here who thinks he is the cat's meow but spends most his time riding the tavern he lives in (between the floors) of various pests and occasionally moving into the village to kill anything he perceives as a threat to his "evil kingdom". I wanna have playing him. Maybe a couple parlor tricks or something. And I wanna put my powers towards controlling others (bad guys) and such, no blasting really.

you could pick up the improved familiar feat for a medium sized familiar (I think).

any parlor tricks you'd want can be done with prestidigitation; one of the most interesting spells in the game. Wizards are considered strong in just about everything they could ever want to do, but they excel in buffing, debuffing, and battlefield control, as far as combat goes. I'm a personal fan of buffing and battlefield control, as I like being able to manipulate stuff without directly interfering.

correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you'll be playing a solo campaign. If so, ignore what I said above; if it's just you, you need to take out all of the threats yourself and keep them taken out. I'd go with a summoning focus if you're on your own.

Pard
2011-01-29, 03:07 PM
Well, there are five others in the campaign, but the DM said we can go about our own things if we wish to, or we can help one another (so far as it helps us towards our own causes). I'd like to be able to hold me own, yes. I'd rather be a super-duper wizard and then play it down RP wise (we are very RP heavy, so it can be played down pretty well, and kobolds are naturally cautious of other races anyways)

Greenish
2011-01-29, 03:13 PM
I'd prefer if Wisdom was not about 10 or 11, as he is not wise in the least.Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds)?

Other than that, normal focused specialist conjurer going Master Specialist and/or MotAO should work okay. For summoning, Malconvoker is a great PrC, but requires non-evil (because evil creatures wouldn't trick others to do their bidding, obviously), so you'd need DM's dispensation for it.

begooler
2011-01-29, 03:29 PM
Sidebar on familiars notes: "A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiarís type (magical beast)."
Which would mean if you were not dragonwrought, you could have Enlarge Person cast on your familiar, but then choose to not have it cast on yourself. I don't know if the fact that you can't technically cast enlarge person on yourself anymore would mean you wouldn't be able to do this.

It would be amusing for you to have a small sized familiar that you rode around on, especially if it were something like a cat.

FMArthur
2011-01-29, 03:41 PM
Focused Specialist (CM) Conjurer is probably the most "standard" optimized wizard path to go, trading the familiar for either standard-action summoning (UA) or immediate action 10ft teleport (PHII), depending on whether you are going for 'powerful' or 'invincible'.

Invisible Spell (Cityscape) and Sculpt Spell (CArc) are fantastic metamagic feats to have at any level and are basically the only two I nearly always put on a build not even dedicated to metamagic, although Fell Drain (Libris Mortis) is pretty good, too. You could also take Sudden Still or Sudden Widen (CArc) for emergencies without needing preparation. The Uncanny Forethought feat (Exemplars of Evil) is ridiculously strong, allowing you to leave your Int mod in spell slots 'open' when you prepare spells in order to spontaneously cast any spell from your spellbook of equal level or lower in those slots.

Really each of those things all make a great Wizard on their own, and together help to make the huge bag of tricks they already have seem endless. None of these are particularly specialized options (not even your school specialization!), either - you can take the build any direction from there or even stay vanilla and try to broaden your options more.

Saint GoH
2011-01-29, 04:03 PM
I personally feel no spell casting class is complete without Abjurant Champion. It grants full casting over 5 levels and makes you considerably more survivable via larger hitdice, and increased effects on abjuration spells (go go shield and mage armor with DM consent).

Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Feat: Combat Casting.
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 1st-level arcane spells,
including at least one abjuration spell.
Special: Must be proficient with at least one martial weapon

Interesting requirements, but aren't kobolds proficient in a special kobold weapon so you have that weird part taken care of?

Pard
2011-01-29, 04:04 PM
Kobolds are able to use picks (exotic weapons), yes.

Greenish
2011-01-29, 04:05 PM
Interesting requirements, but aren't kobolds proficient in a special kobold weapon so you have that weird part taken care of?Proficiencies in light & heavy pick as bonus feats, familiarity with the greatpick. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)

[Edit]:
Kobolds are able to use picks (exotic weapons), yes.Light pick and heavy pick are martial weapons. Greatpick is exotic though.

Saint GoH
2011-01-29, 04:16 PM
Proficiencies in light & heavy pick as bonus feats, familiarity with the greatpick. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)

[Edit]:Light pick and heavy pick are martial weapons. Greatpick is exotic though.

Lovely, basically you just need combat casting and yer good to go. Can't get in till 8th level because of the bab, but even full casters can greatly benefit from d10 HD and auto-Extend Abjuration Spells +5 with the option to cast them as a swift action.

Plus, no loss to caster level :smallbiggrin:

Greenish
2011-01-29, 04:18 PM
Lovely, basically you just need combat casting and yer good to go. Can't get in till 8th level because of the bab, but even full casters can greatly benefit from d10 HD and auto-Extend Abjuration Spells +5 with the option to cast them as a swift action.Exalted characters will be overjoyed to notice that Luminous Armour (and naturally it's big brother) are Abjuration spells. :smallwink:

Saint GoH
2011-01-29, 04:22 PM
Exalted characters will be overjoyed to notice that Luminous Armour (and naturally it's big brother) are Abjuration spells. :smallwink:

TC will be heart broken when he realizes those are Good spells though... maybe it is best to not dash his hopes :smallwink:

Pard
2011-01-29, 04:34 PM
I think I like the idea of a summoner. Any suggestions on how I should build a summoner? I've been reading a topic about building one.

What school should I focus on? The topic is divided between Diviner and Conjurer.

How about feats? I know one of my first two feats is gonna be dragonwrought (otherwise the build is gonna suck because it's just a regular old kobold who will die within the year!)

I know a level 4 wizard is not gonna be the greatest summoner in the world, but I think we are planning to play this campaign for a LOOONG time (DM promised that I can really achieve world domination if I play it right!!!).

Feel free to post any thing from any WotC books. No 3rd party books will be allowed (otherwise I'd be playing a Spryte from Monte's AU)

Greenish
2011-01-29, 04:39 PM
Focused specialist (see C.Mage) Conjurer with the Rapid Summoning and Enhanced Summoning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#conjurerVariants) from UA/SRD (Spontaneous Summoning isn't worth it). Master Specialist for a few levels wouldn't be bad, though the Spontaneous Divination ACF for wizard 5 is rather delicious. Malconvoker is a great summoning PrC, but if the DM won't let the alignment requirements slide, just normal wizardly PrCs are in order.

Saint GoH
2011-01-29, 04:44 PM
Augment Summoning could also be handy... although Spell Focus: Conjuration is kind of meh.

Pard
2011-01-29, 04:45 PM
How good/bad is Alienist? Was just looking at that as a PrC. Would it hinder me to dip Sorcerer for level 6? I get some nice bonuses with the Dragon Ritual and the Greater Ritual that way.

Also, since we are talking PrC and multi-classing, it should be known that my DM doesn't have penalties on the level differences between classes.

EDIT: You say Rapid Summons is not worth it, can you explain what it actually does and why it is not worth it? I must be understanding it wrong because it sounds awesome to me...

Greenish
2011-01-29, 04:50 PM
Augment Summoning could also be handy... although Spell Focus: Conjuration is kind of meh.Which is why you swap Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning. :smalltongue:

Though SF: Conjuration isn't that bad in itself, especially at lower levels, and is required for a couple of handy PrCs.

How good/bad is Alienist?I have a distand feeling that I wasn't so impressed with it, but I can't remember it's details anymore, and I've never played one.

Would it hinder me to dip Sorcerer for level 6?Yes, unless you were planning to go for Ultimate Magus, but that isn't a great option for summoners.

Also, since we are talking PrC and multi-classing, it should be known that my DM doesn't have penalties on the level differences between classes.You still probably don't want other base classes, since they don't advance your wizard casting.

Pard
2011-01-29, 05:15 PM
What should I dump? That is a bit of an issue too. I figure Evocation is a goner, but what should the second one by? I'm thinking probably Enchantment or Necromancy, I can see pros and cons to both.

Ability priorities or spread help would be good. Thinking

Int
Con
Dex
Wis
Str/Cha

But I am not sure if I will need Wis/Cha down the road for bigger and trickier summons.

Greenish
2011-01-29, 05:22 PM
What should I dump? That is a bit of an issue too. I figure Evocation is a goner, but what should the second one by? I'm thinking probably Enchantment or Necromancy, I can see pros and cons to both.The usual suspects are Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy and Abjuration, though if you go solo you'll want to keep the latter. Focused specialists ban 3 schools, but I feel it's worth it for the sweet, sweet spell slots.


Ability priorities or spread help would be good. Thinking

Int
Con
Dex
Wis
Str/Cha

But I am not sure if I will need Wis/Cha down the road for bigger and trickier summons.Wisdom isn't that important with good will save through and through (most all caster PrCs have good will). Charisma isn't hugely necessary, either, but I like to have some, especially when (as a SAD character) you can afford it.

FMArthur
2011-01-29, 05:24 PM
How good/bad is Alienist? Was just looking at that as a PrC. Would it hinder me to dip Sorcerer for level 6? I get some nice bonuses with the Dragon Ritual and the Greater Ritual that way.

Also, since we are talking PrC and multi-classing, it should be known that my DM doesn't have penalties on the level differences between classes.

EDIT: You say Rapid Summons is not worth it, can you explain what it actually does and why it is not worth it? I must be understanding it wrong because it sounds awesome to me...

Alienist is bad, you lose too much and barely even gain anything. You even lose access to a large number of creatures to summon as a class feature. If you're going for a summoner then Malconvoker unfortunately has no substitute. Master Specialist (CM) gives you more benefits as a summoner than Alienist and lets you enter much sooner.

I'm not familiar with the Dragon Ritual, but if you're talking about Draconic Rite of Passage and its Greater counterpart, the investment simply isn't worth it unless Sorceror is the focus of your build. Adding Sorceror to your Wizard wouldn't even gain you abilities you don't already have - just more low-level spells that a Focused Specialist should already be swimming in. Check out Ultimate Magus in Complete Mage if you really are set on a Wiz/Sorc hybrid, since it lets you use your Sorceror spells to aid your Wizard casting. It's not really good by default, but with Practiced Spellcaster: Sorceror (CArc) you can at least keep your progression Wizard-focused.

I don't think he said the Rapid Summoning variant was bad; it's awesome. It just happens to be right next to another ACF called Spontaneous Summoning, which happens to be pretty bad. They way they're laid out encourages summoners to take all of the options, but it's better to just take Rapid and Enhanced and leave it at that.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot a great Wizard feat when I was outlining the good ones in my previous post. Collegiate Wizard. You can only take it at first level, but you gain spells for your spellbook at double the normal rate. It's very reliable for Wizards levelling in the field or who don't have access to magic shops for scrolls, and even for those that do, it saves a ton of money! Great feat. It's on page 181 of Complete Arcane (kind of hidden!).

Greenish
2011-01-29, 05:28 PM
I don't think he said the Rapid Summoning variant was bad; it's awesome. It just happens to be right next to another ACF called Spontaneous Summoning, which happens to be pretty bad. They way they're laid out encourages summoners to take all of the options, but it's better to just take Rapid and Enhanced and leave it at that.This is what I meant. Rapid is borderline essential for summoner builds, though there are things that can replicate the effect.

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-29, 05:35 PM
If your going the Conjuration road, you might be interested in the Summon Elemental reserve feat. More-or-less unlimited mini-mooks are cool.
Also, not to toot my own horn, but since you mentioned the Alienist..... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178430)

Pard
2011-01-29, 05:47 PM
I think I will go Focused Specialist and dump Evocation, Enchantment, and Abjuration.

Sorry, I did not mean Rapid Summon, I meant Spontaneous Summon, however I read a little of Dictum Mortuum's guide and now I get what it is.

Greenish
2011-01-29, 05:54 PM
I think I will go Focused Specialist and dump Evocation, Enchantment, and Abjuration.Well, abjuration has some good spells for going solo, but then again, so does necromancy. Either way stings a bit, but should work okay.


Sorry, I did not mean Rapid Summon, I meant Spontaneous Summon, however I read a little of Dictum Mortuum's guide and now I get what it is.Well, I'd rather prepare an extra summoning spell in my extra spell slot than trade higher level spells for lower level ones. :smallbiggrin:

The note at the end of Spontaneous Summoning description bears repeating, however:
Note: Since conjurers using this variant obviously summon monsters frequently, the game master should require the conjurer's player to prepare simple record sheets ahead of time for each monster that the character commonly summons. It is also important to emphasize speedy play on the part of the conjurer and his summoned monsters.It applies even without spontaneous summoning.

Pard
2011-01-29, 06:02 PM
OH, I am playing PbP, so I have all my information with me at all times. But yes, I keep detailed notes of everything I can access.

Is the Reserve Feat worth it? As a Focused Specialist I am pretty well equipped when it comes to spells. A bit higher leveled and I can probably cast a spell ever round for four encounters before I have to worry about eating into my spells for other tasks.

I know you said Malconvoker is good (but if my DM doesnt let me play it, the whole nonevil alignment thing...) what about Thaumaturgist or Constructor

Pard
2011-01-29, 07:40 PM
Sorry for the D-P, but

Does it make sense to do this?

Wizard (Focused Specialist Conjurer, w/ Rapid and Enhanced Summons) 1
Wizard 2
Wizard 3
Master Specialist 1
Master Specialist 2
Malconvoker 1-5
Master Specialist 3-10