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unosarta
2011-01-30, 04:51 PM
Prismatic Baked Goods
Evocation
Level: Sorc/Wizard 3
Components: V, S.
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One created baked good/five caster levels
Duration: Instantaneous; 1 round/caster level
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

A summoned cake, cupcake, cookie or other baked good appears, rainbow and bright, shining with frosting or glaze. It seems to sparkle with some hidden energy. It is filled with a creamy, colored filling.

A baked good appears within range. If eaten, the target has an effect happen to them randomly, rolling a d8, as rolled on the following table:

{table=head]Result|Color|Effect


1|
Red|Fire Resistance 20


2|
Orange|Acid Resistance 20


3|
Yellow|Electricity Resistance 20


4|
Green|Poison Immunity


5|
Blue|Cold Resistance 20


6|
Indigo|Heals 20 Hit Points


7|
Violet|Dimension Door (eater chooses destination)


8|
Two Colors|Roll Twice; Ignore any 8 Results[/table]

A character may not eat a Prismatic Baked Good more than once per encounter, or more than once every hour. If they attempt to do so, they gain no benefit, and the spell is wasted. Eating a Prismatic Baked Good is a move action. The eater uses the caster's caster level for any spell effects.

Prismatic Baked Goods provide no nutritional value. A Prismatic Baked Good lasts for one day per caster level before going stale and giving no benefit if left out in the open, and if sealed and properly stored, lasts one week per caster level before going stale.

The Red, Orange, Yellow, Green and Blue results all have a duration of one round per caster level, and the other durations are instantaneous.

The Baked Goods are filled with a creamy filling corresponding to the color of the effect it produces. If the Baked Goods are cut or broken open in any way other than by consuming it, the creamy filling turns white, and the Baked Good provides no effect for its consumption.




Prismatic Shot Glass

Evocation
Level: Sorc/Wizard 4
Components: V, S.
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One Shot Glass
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: See text;
Spell Resistance: No

A small, rainbow colored shot glass appears within range, full of a colorless alcohol/alcoholic beverage.

A Prismatic Shot Glass appears within range, and may be drunk as a move action. The drinker rolls a d8, and checks the following table for the results.

{table=head]Result|Color|Effect


1|
Red|Fire Breath


2|
Orange|Acid Spit


3|
Yellow|Electricity Beam


4|
Green|Poison Spit


5|
Blue|Cold Breath


6|
Indigo|Heals 30 Hit Points


7|
Violet|Dimension Door


8|
Two Colors|Roll Twice; Ignore any 8 Results[/table]

The effect is released as soon as the result is shown, but the drinker is given enough time to choose the direction or target of the effect, except in the case of the Indigo and Violet. Any save in the effect is based upon the caster's statistics, and not the consumer's.

Fire Breath: 30 foot cone of fire, dealing 1d6 fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to all enemies in the area, reflex save for half damage.

Acid Spit: Ranged touch attack against a single target, deals 1d6 acid damage per caster level (maximum 10d6).

Electricity Beam: A 60 foot line of electricity. Deals 1d6 electricity damage per caster level (maximum 10d6), reflex save for half damage.

Poison Spit: Ranged touch attack against a single opponent, opponent must make a fortitude save or take 1d6 constitution damage, and another fortitude save one minute later for 1d6 constitution damage.

Cold Breath: 30 foot cone of freezing winds, dealing 1d6 cold damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to all enemies in the area, reflex save for half damage.

Dimension Door: As the spell, location chosen by the DM.

The Prismatic Shot Glass may be refilled with liquid and drunk, but a creature may only drink from the Prismatic Shot Glass once per day. Any creature that tries to drink twice gains no benefit. Any liquid that fills the glass will do. Only the original caster of the spell may refill the shot glass in this way, and if anyone else tries to it remains the liquid that was put in the glass, and has no added effects.



Prismatic Baguette
Evocation
Level: Sorc/Wiz 6?
Components: V, S.
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft. /caster level)
Effect: One Prismatic Baguette
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text;
Spell Resistance: No.

A baguette appears, colored each color of the rainbow for each one seventh section of the baguette. It is about 2 to 2.5 feet long.

A Prismatic Baguette appears within range. It can be consumed as a move action, and when consumed, the consumer rolls a d8, the result being on the following table:

{table=head]Result|Color|Effect


1|
Red|Firestorm


2|
Orange|Acid Fog


3|
Yellow|Chain Lighting


4|
Green|Insect Plague


5|
Blue|Flesh-to-Stone


6|
Indigo|Eyebite


7|
Violet|Teleport


8|
Two Colors|Roll Twice; Ignore any 8 Results[/table]

The spell is as written, with the caster level being that of the caster of the Prismatic Baguette spell. Any save is based off of the casterís statistics. Spells from this effect do not affect the consumer of the Baguette. The spell is cast immediately, giving just enough time for the consumer to target a creature, if the spell has a target, and centered on the caster if the spell has an area. If the spell is shapeable, then the consumer must be within the area of effect for the spell. The consumer is immune to the effects.

The Baguette has seven bites, each of a different color. After one (or two) bites have been used, they may not be used again. If they are rolled on the table, then the consumer must reroll. The Baguette lasts for one day per bite remaining, before going stale. If the Baguette has negative days remaining, then the Baguette instantly goes stale, and provides no benefit for any more consumptions.

PanNarrans
2011-01-30, 04:53 PM
Who gets to choose where the dimension door goes, the DM or the PC?

Blue Ghost
2011-01-30, 04:54 PM
Wow, I've been using stuff like this in SMBG for ages now... never had it statted up though.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 04:59 PM
Who gets to choose where the dimension door goes, the DM or the PC?

PC. I will add that in.

Benly
2011-01-30, 04:59 PM
I am going to spend all my downtime slots on Prismatic Danishes. They're like free potions with a cooldown on using them!

Do the Prismatic Muffins have any nutritional value? Do they ever go stale?

unosarta
2011-01-30, 05:00 PM
I am going to spend all my downtime slots on Prismatic Danishes. They're like free potions with a cooldown on using them!

Do the Prismatic Muffins have any nutritional value? Do they ever go stale?

I was thinking that they would go stale eventually, but it would take longer since they are made out of *magic!*

Coidzor
2011-01-30, 05:03 PM
Are you planning on having a higher level one that creates multiples or thinking more of having it create more that scale with one's level, such as one every 4, 5, or 6 CL?

Also, you should probably include some indication of shelf life or lack thereof and decide whether or not you want interactions with quintessence to be addressed here.

Volthawk
2011-01-30, 05:03 PM
Um, how long do the effects last?

unosarta
2011-01-30, 05:06 PM
Also, you should probably include some indication of shelf life or lack thereof and decide whether or not you want interactions with quintessence to be addressed here.


Um, how long do the effects last?

I actually ninja edited those problems out before/as your were posting. Go me!


Are you planning on having a higher level one that creates multiples or thinking more of having it create more that scale with one's level, such as one every 4, 5, or 6 CL?

Maybe the latter. Multiple spells, when they aren't really necessary, are really just a bad idea.

I will edit that in to the OP.

Benly
2011-01-30, 05:17 PM
Aw, the "only one at a time per caster" is disappointing. I really didn't think it was overpowered, just entertaining. It's not like there aren't other spells you can stock up during downtime. (Mainly I feel the 1/hour restriction was already a pretty good limiter on them.)

I just wanted to have a Bag of Holding full of prismatic crullers.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 05:29 PM
Aw, the "only one at a time per caster" is disappointing. I really didn't think it was overpowered, just entertaining. It's not like there aren't other spells you can stock up during downtime. (Mainly I feel the 1/hour restriction was already a pretty good limiter on them.)

I just wanted to have a Bag of Holding full of prismatic crullers.

I changed it, so that that clause is gone. Now, the caster can have as many as he/she/it wants, but may still only eat one per hour.

Also, the Prismatic Shot Glass is up, balancing critiques would be nice.

Benly
2011-01-30, 05:36 PM
Oh, huh. I thought that the Prismatic Bagels actually let you see what color they were before you ate, but looking it over I'm not sure. I kind of like it better when you can see it, but oh well.

Alanzeign
2011-01-30, 05:40 PM
Think of the fun at parties!

The only thing that seems a little unbalanced by the shot glass is that it effectively gives non casters the ability to cast a spell of the original caster's power. The scale is that of basically a 3rd level spell so not much trouble there.

It's balanced by the fact that the spell effect is random and that it can only be used once per day per person, but in that regards it is potentially stronger (albeit randomized) than a 3rd level spell. I'd say go for 4th level but either way it'd be a fun spell to use (and if people weren't being munchkins about it than 3rd level is probably fine).

unosarta
2011-01-30, 05:40 PM
Oh, huh. I thought that the Prismatic Bagels actually let you see what color they were before you ate, but looking it over I'm not sure. I kind of like it better when you can see it, but oh well.

The bagels would look vaguely like this:
http://thebagelbasketofny.com/pictures/rainbow2.jpg

But the thing is, now matter how much you eat, the magic is in and of itself random. Like, you could eat a green section, and still get blue, because the color is nice, but it doesn't represent the actual magic that makes the bagel. The magic itself is what gives the bagel form, and is constantly whirling and spinning, changing course and diverging. It is like an electron; you can know where it is, or you can know how fast it is going; you can't know both. Actually, you can't know either of those, since such an in-depth detect magic spell doesn't exist yet. So, the magic itself is changing constantly, and you are taking a bite out of the magic. So, in effect, you can never know exactly what magic you will get.



Think of the fun at parties!

The only thing that seems a little unbalanced by the shot glass is that it effectively gives non casters the ability to cast a spell of the original caster's power. The scale is that of basically a 3rd level spell so not much trouble there.

It's balanced by the fact that the spell effect is random and that it can only be used once per day per person, but in that regards it is potentially stronger (albeit randomized) than a 3rd level spell. I'd say go for 4th level but either way it'd be a fun spell to use (and if people weren't being munchkins about it than 3rd level is probably fine).

Hm. This is a good point. Maybe only the caster may refill it? Does that seem balanced?

Alanzeign
2011-01-30, 05:53 PM
I know an old group I was in would definitely pass it around and get 5 good uses out of it. If the caster had to refill it it would at least keep the wizard from casting it at the beginning of the day, handing it to the party, and going back to bed.

Either way I don't think you could overly abuse it due to its random nature. If the caster had to refill it it would essentially make it a one use per encounter item that you had to cast before the battle (since handing it around would be obnoxious combat-wise).

Can it be manifest in a willing character's hand? Backpack? Conveniently accessible by move action area? Thinking about the original cast. Making it before battle seems like the most practical use for a party if not.

PanNarrans
2011-01-30, 05:54 PM
I'm not sure what levels would be appropriate, but I do think that the shot version should be higher level than the baked goods version. A specific kind of energy resistance will only rarely be useful, whereas energy damage is almost always useful. The randomness therefore hurts the baked goods more.

Benly
2011-01-30, 05:57 PM
My problem with that justification for the randomization is that it feels like it defeats the purpose of the Prismatic spells if the color and effect aren't actually related. The whole point of the Prismatics is that each color has its own effect; in this case, it feels more like "they're rainbow-colored, and also there's randomized magic" instead of the actual Prismatic spells.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 06:12 PM
I know an old group I was in would definitely pass it around and get 5 good uses out of it. If the caster had to refill it it would at least keep the wizard from casting it at the beginning of the day, handing it to the party, and going back to bed.

Either way I don't think you could overly abuse it due to its random nature. If the caster had to refill it it would essentially make it a one use per encounter item that you had to cast before the battle (since handing it around would be obnoxious combat-wise).

Can it be manifest in a willing character's hand? Backpack? Conveniently accessible by move action area? Thinking about the original cast. Making it before battle seems like the most practical use for a party if not.

Yeah, I don't want it to be the wizard/sorcerer creating it and then handing it off to someone and never using it. It feels to impersonal for the wizard/sorcerer.

It can be created anywhere within range, which is 25+5/caster level. So, at minimum, it can be created 60 feet away, and at maximum 125 feet away.


I'm not sure what levels would be appropriate, but I do think that the shot version should be higher level than the baked goods version. A specific kind of energy resistance will only rarely be useful, whereas energy damage is almost always useful. The randomness therefore hurts the baked goods more.

I suppose this is a good point.


My problem with that justification for the randomization is that it feels like it defeats the purpose of the Prismatic spells if the color and effect aren't actually related. The whole point of the Prismatics is that each color has its own effect; in this case, it feels more like "they're rainbow-colored, and also there's randomized magic" instead of the actual Prismatic spells.

Ah, no, that is not what I meant. I was responding to your saying that the "prismatic bagel's" color should be visible. I was saying that the prismatic bagel would be rainbow colored, and that the reason that the effects are random is because the magic itself is what makes the bagel, and the outside form is just a shell. I understand what you are saying, but from a balance perspective, it isn't a good way to make the spell. If one were to know the effect of the bagel before consumption, then they could simply recast the spell again until they get the desired color. If they have to eat it to know what it is, then they can't eat it again for one hour, or until the encounter is over. Also, it being the same color since creation doesn't make sense according to Prismatic Spray. Prismatic Spray creates a single color on casting, because that casting is pure, ephemeral magic. Hence why it is affected by SR. It isn't in flux anymore, it is already out of flux and being cast. The baked goods are in flux until consumed. Their magic is continually shifting between the colors, because the magic is still in a concrete form. As soon as the item is consumed, it is released from the concrete form, and converted into pure magic, going out of flux and becoming defined. That magic then goes into the consumer's body, and the consumer is benefited.

The Dark Fiddler
2011-01-30, 06:13 PM
The poison effect of Prismatic Shot Glass doesn't mention whether the save is as normal for a spell or if it involves the attributes of the person who drank it.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 06:14 PM
The poison effect of Prismatic Shot Glass doesn't mention whether the save is as normal for a spell or if it involves the attributes of the person who drank it.

Good point. I will mention that any saves that are from the effects of the Shot Glass are based on the caster, and not the consumer.

Alanzeign
2011-01-30, 06:32 PM
I have to run off to rehearsal so I have to make this quick but most of the effects seem to be in line with 3rd spell levels or lower with the exception of cold and acid (can't remember poison off the top of my head). Acid and cold damage are much harder to come by at lower levels.

Again, this is off the top of my head so forgive me if I'm wrong but ray of frost is a cantrip and deals 1d3 and the next cold spell is level 5 and cone of cold (while stronger than your cone and with a larger range, that's a 4 player level difference in access to that kind of damage vs. this spell unless you're using orb spells and I don't remember what level they are, 4?). Acid Arrow is a 2nd level spell and deals 2d4 once per round on a successful hit for every 3 caster levels, so something like max 12d4 over 6 rounds at caster level 18. Those 2 energy types might want to be given a reduced damage from lightning and fire. Just a thought.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 06:47 PM
Again, this is off the top of my head so forgive me if I'm wrong but ray of frost is a cantrip and deals 1d3 and the next cold spell is level 5 and cone of cold (while stronger than your cone and with a larger range, that's a 4 player level difference in access to that kind of damage vs. this spell unless you're using orb spells and I don't remember what level they are, 4?). Acid Arrow is a 2nd level spell and deals 2d4 once per round on a successful hit for every 3 caster levels, so something like max 12d4 over 6 rounds at caster level 18. Those 2 energy types might want to be given a reduced damage from lightning and fire. Just a thought.

Orbs are 4, lesser Orbs are 2. Acid arrow is also widely regarded as one of the worst spells available at second level, and the Lesser Orb of Acid is honestly better, and it provides an effect instead of just dealing damage, if I recall correctly. I might drop them down to a d4, but I honestly don't think it would do much.

Benly
2011-01-30, 06:51 PM
Also, it being the same color since creation doesn't make sense according to Prismatic Spray. Prismatic Spray creates a single color on casting, because that casting is pure, ephemeral magic. Hence why it is affected by SR. It isn't in flux anymore, it is already out of flux and being cast.

Prismatic Spray creates all seven colors in separate beams intertwined throughout its area. Which colors hit a given point in the area is random, but the effect is deterministically linked to which color of beam hits you.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument?

unosarta
2011-01-30, 07:01 PM
Prismatic Spray creates all seven colors in separate beams intertwined throughout its area. Which colors hit a given point in the area is random, but the effect is deterministically linked to which color of beam hits you.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument?

But the color of the beam is random until the beam hits you. The color of the effect of the Drink/Food is random, until you eat it. The point is, you can't pick and choose what effect you get, which is what you sounded like you were suggesting.

Benly
2011-01-30, 08:09 PM
But the color of the beam is random until the beam hits you. The color of the effect of the Drink/Food is random, until you eat it. The point is, you can't pick and choose what effect you get, which is what you sounded like you were suggesting.

As written by the spell's flavor text, the color of the beam is not random. Which beam hits you is random, but there are beams of fixed color spraying all over the area and which color has which effect is fixed.

With the way this spell works, you would get to choose which doughnut you eat (assuming you've presummoned a huge pile of them), but the alternate choice which you've taken is that the effect is actually unconnected to the physical colors, which seems to violate the essential premise of the Prismatic spells. Randomness is not inherent to the Prismatic effects. Prismatic Wall is incredibly deterministic: it always has the same effects, in the same order, you have to dispel them away in a specific order and you always know exactly which effects are left. The essential nature of the Prismatic spells is that you can look at what colors are there and know what effect is tied to what color.

The remaining concern is balance, which I do agree is a concern. One solution might be creating baked goods with seven bites, each a different color, and only allowing a caster to have one casting's worth of pastries active at once - that way you can't really stockpile a specific effect, but you are getting a decent supply of buffs which may or may not be applicable. Similarly, the shot glass could let you choose which color of liquor it produces each time it's activated, with that color disappearing from the glass. There are other ways to approach the problem, but I am extremely unhappy with a solution that disconnects the actual color from its effect.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 08:32 PM
As written by the spell's flavor text, the color of the beam is not random. Which beam hits you is random, but there are beams of fixed color spraying all over the area and which color has which effect is fixed.
The food and drink is rainbow colored. The beam has rainbows throughout it.


With the way this spell works, you would get to choose which doughnut you eat (assuming you've presummoned a huge pile of them), but the alternate choice which you've taken is that the effect is actually unconnected to the physical colors, which seems to violate the essential premise of the Prismatic spells. Randomness is not inherent to the Prismatic effects. Prismatic Wall is incredibly deterministic: it always has the same effects, in the same order, you have to dispel them away in a specific order and you always know exactly which effects are left. The essential nature of the Prismatic spells is that you can look at what colors are there and know what effect is tied to what color.
Check out the description of the stuff created, man. It is a rainbow baked good. Each baked good is a rainbow. Each has every color on or inside of them. This spell was inspired by a conversation on the LGBTAitP thread about rainbow baked goods.

As for being thematic, the true problem becomes; the other Prismatic spells are all offensive. They are in a specific order because they provide no benefit to a character in and of themselves. The Prismatic Baked Goods/Shot Glass provide a character benefit. If one were to choose which benefits they received, several of the abilities are more powerful than others. This is not something that can really be avoided, while still trying to stay with the Prismatic flavor. Just as one does not get to choose which ability they are affected by with the offensive Prismatic spells, one does not get the choice with the beneficial ones. With the offensive, one can dispel the magical wall one layer by one layer, but they must do it in a specific order; they cannot simply dispel all but the first wall and take the 20 points of fire damage; they are forced to either do all of them, to get rid of the wall, or avoid it. That is part of what makes it powerful. For Prismatic Spray, the caster does not get to choose who gets each beam, nor who does not get hit. The caster has no control. That is what the main theme of each spell really is about. The loss of control, as well as rainbows. The randomness is just a part of that. Giving the characters control over the colors would be specifically breaking that theme.


The remaining concern is balance, which I do agree is a concern. One solution might be creating baked goods with seven bites, each a different color, and only allowing a caster to have one casting's worth of pastries active at once - that way you can't really stockpile a specific effect, but you are getting a decent supply of buffs which may or may not be applicable. Similarly, the shot glass could let you choose which color of liquor it produces each time it's activated, with that color disappearing from the glass. There are other ways to approach the problem, but I am extremely unhappy with a solution that disconnects the actual color from its effect.

Again, that isn't getting past the most important part; the loss of control. Also, consider the effects of the choices; when are you really going to choose resistances over Healing or Teleportation? It is less of a problem with the Shot Glass, but Poison Spit is probably more powerful than the other abilities, depending on the monster. But you don't get to choose. That is what makes it an interesting spell to choose, and what makes it fun. You never know if you are going to get the Acid Resistance, or the Teleportation, or if you are going to get the Poison Spit or the healing; just as you never know if you are going to get the yellow beam or the red beam. You do know that you are going to get a certain spell in a certain place for Prismatic Wall, but that has more to do with the usage of Prismatic Wall as a defensive spell, or as a BFC spell, as compared to an offensive spell.

Benly
2011-01-30, 08:38 PM
Also, consider the effects of the choices; when are you really going to choose resistances over Healing or Teleportation?

When that's all that's left on your biscotti. For my suggestion of the seven-bites version, I was actually specifically thinking of the 1E/2E spell Rainbow, which gave you an actual bow with seven shots, each with a different effect, which you could fire off in any order. Some effects were better than others, but if you had already shot your purple and indigo arrows you would be shooting red and yellow because that's what you had left.

Alternately, let them see what they get in advance but have the pastries go stale faster, so that if they want a full pick-and-choose it'll require some serious churning through slots. Personally, I don't think it's overpowerful even if you can stockpile to some extent and pick what you want, because of the cooldown on eating them.

Jarian
2011-01-30, 08:42 PM
For what it's worth, I believe sticking with the random effect is better in keeping with the existing prismatic spells.

Just the two cp of a passing observer.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 08:43 PM
When that's all that's left on your biscotti. For my suggestion of the seven-bites version, I was actually specifically thinking of the 1E/2E spell Rainbow, which gave you an actual bow with seven shots, each with a different effect, which you could fire off in any order. Some effects were better than others, but if you had already shot your purple and indigo arrows you would be shooting red and yellow because that's what you had left.
Interesting. However, the differences in power for individual effects from these spells are large enough that it isn't really comparable. I mean, I like what is going on here right now. The character takes a bite from a Prismatic Pastry. He rolls a d8.

He gets an 8, a 6, and a 1. (I just rolled on a free online dice roller).

He consults the table. He gets 20 points of healing, and fire resistance 20, if eating the food. He gains a fire breath, and 20 points of healing if drinking from the Glass.

I am going to document my results from here on out:

2
7
4
7
3
4
7
6
1
8, 2, 5
4
8, 1, 3
8, 5, 2
6
So, roughly 1/3 of the time, he gets a result that will always be useful for the encounter, and he also gains abilities the rest of the time that are situationally useful. This is less of a problem for the Shot Glass, which has abilities that are almost always useful. But those are numbers that I was hoping for. In fact, they are (sort of understandably) higher than I was hoping for. I was expecting something more like 1/4 of the results being always useful, and the rest being occasionally useful. However, even those situationally useful abilities can be useful when specifically being played to. For instance, imagine that the character ate a Prismatic Bearpaw, and rolled a 2. He then casts an AoE acid ability centered on himself, that would otherwise deal damage to him. Now the damage is at worse reduced, at best completely negated. Using random effects well is all about learning to play the chances up, and then planning accordingly. Because the ability is per encounter, the caster can essentially do this every encounter, dealing with most problems that come up for blasters accordingly. Because it works for most allies, the caster can have them do this as well. The random element is almost essential in the strategy of playing with the spell; it is what makes it exciting.


Alternately, let them see what they get in advance but have the pastries go stale faster, so that if they want a full pick-and-choose it'll require some serious churning through slots. Personally, I don't think it's overpowerful even if you can stockpile to some extent and pick what you want, because of the cooldown on eating them.

Would the cooldown on eating them cover eating one color, or eating the pastries/drinks in general? Even still, that is giving players the choice that isn't available in the original Prismatic Spray/Wall/Sphere spells.

Benly
2011-01-30, 08:49 PM
..hm, actually an interesting in-between option that comes to mind: you summon a seven-flavored pastry, and each bite takes out one of the colors at random (or two, if you roll that). The pastry is not fully consumed at this point, and you can put it back in your pocket to take another bite anytime after the hour cooldown has passed; any colors that have already been bitten out are rerolled on subsequent bites. For some reason, that bothers me less, because all seven colors are still there. In theory, you could hang on to a pastry that only had the grape slice left to get some control, but it wouldn't really be practical. You'd probably want to put on some other limiter to how many you can have at once (either staleness or number created by a single caster at a time) just to avoid ludicrous bookkeeping, though.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 08:56 PM
..hm, actually an interesting in-between option that comes to mind: you summon a seven-flavored pastry, and each bite takes out one of the colors at random (or two, if you roll that). The pastry is not fully consumed at this point, and you can put it back in your pocket to take another bite anytime after the hour cooldown has passed; any colors that have already been bitten out are rerolled on subsequent bites. For some reason, that bothers me less, because all seven colors are still there. In theory, you could hang on to a pastry that only had the grape slice left to get some control, but it wouldn't really be practical. You'd probably want to put on some other limiter to how many you can have at once (either staleness or number created by a single caster at a time) just to avoid ludicrous bookkeeping, though.

This could be interesting. Actually, I could see it as a higher level spell that summons a single piece of bread, or something, and then the effects would be higher level and more powerful as well. The freshness would be essentially the number of colors left in days. For each bite taken out of the bread, the days left are reduced by one. As soon as it reaches 0 or negative one, the bread goes moldy, and gives no benefit. This means that for you to actually get a for sure ability, you would have to summon a bunch on the day of casting, and then eat each of them until just that ability remained, if it were not consumed first. I like it.

unosarta
2011-01-30, 09:34 PM
Okay, the Prismatic Baguette is up.

I feel as if it could be a seventh or eighth level spell, but the duration is pretty hard to get past. Oh! Forgot to mention that you can only take one bite per day, and that there can only ever be one in existence, per caster. Unless the Baguette is passed around, you are not going to be getting very much use from it, and you definitely aren't going to be getting more than four uses from the Baguette unless you pass it around to more than one person, which is the kind of party dynamic that I enjoy. Any thoughts?

Alanzeign
2011-01-30, 10:41 PM
This is sweet! Just for flavor, is there any reason a baguette is different from the other baked goods (as in the earlier spell)? Feels like it could be something more special.

Benly
2011-01-30, 11:03 PM
You know, I just realized what would make me completely satisfied with Prismatic Baked Goods' mechanical effect as it stands. I feel kind of dumb, but it works for me.

The baked goods have a filling which is not visible from the outside, like an eclair or jelly doughnut. The color/flavor of the filling determines the effect, and opening up the pastry by any means other than biting into it breaks its magic.


..also, shouldn't these be Conjuration (Creation) instead of Evocation?

Alanzeign
2011-01-31, 02:05 AM
I can dig the filling fluff. Second on the conjuration too. The original spell is evocation because it throws around rays of various energy types. This is creating objects that possess certain energies though, so it's more like the orb spells than rays. Actually it's even MORE conjuration than the orb spells since it creates actual items.

Orb spells never made any sense to me. Oh it's conjuration cause I made ACTUAL lightning appear and it bypasses spell resistance instead of MAGIC lightning which doesn't. This logic fails for me but the reasons for creating the spells are obvious. I just wish they had thought about it a little more.

unosarta
2011-01-31, 09:32 AM
What would people think about a rainbow domain? I think all we need is a fifth level spell, second level, and first level spell.


I can dig the filling fluff. Second on the conjuration too. The original spell is evocation because it throws around rays of various energy types. This is creating objects that possess certain energies though, so it's more like the orb spells than rays. Actually it's even MORE conjuration than the orb spells since it creates actual items.
Yeah, but evocation never gets anything good. Literally, their only good spells in core are Prismatic Spray/Wall/Sphere, and Contingency. Anything else can be recreated/reproduced by conjuration or another school, and it gets even worse outside of core.

As for an actual reason, the spell is literally creating the energy and turning it into a form that doesn't fade away. It isn't summoning the Prismatic Goods from another place, else it would be known as "Summon Prismatic Baked Goods/Shot Glass/Baguette."


Orb spells never made any sense to me. Oh it's conjuration cause I made ACTUAL lightning appear and it bypasses spell resistance instead of MAGIC lightning which doesn't. This logic fails for me but the reasons for creating the spells are obvious. I just wish they had thought about it a little more.
Yeah, orbs are kind of stupid, and generally annoy me greatly.


You know, I just realized what would make me completely satisfied with Prismatic Baked Goods' mechanical effect as it stands. I feel kind of dumb, but it works for me.

The baked goods have a filling which is not visible from the outside, like an eclair or jelly doughnut. The color/flavor of the filling determines the effect, and opening up the pastry by any means other than biting into it breaks its magic.
The filling would work wonderfully.


..also, shouldn't these be Conjuration (Creation) instead of Evocation?

No. See above.

Fable Wright
2011-01-31, 10:07 AM
Question on the baguette: When do the spell-like abilities activate? Do they activate immediately, targeting or centered on the person who took the bite? Or can the person activate them at a later time as a standard action? If so, how long does it take for the spell-like ability to wear off? Or do they activate and target the abilities when they bite down? These are all questions to consider to make the wording understandable.

unosarta
2011-01-31, 10:08 AM
Question on the baguette: When do the spell-like abilities activate? Do they activate immediately, targeting or centered on the person who took the bite? Or can the person activate them at a later time as a standard action? If so, how long does it take for the spell-like ability to wear off? Or do they activate and target the abilities when they bite down? These are all questions to consider to make the wording understandable.

Immediately, centered on the consumer. I will clarify the wording.

Benly
2011-01-31, 04:42 PM
Yeah, but evocation never gets anything good. Literally, their only good spells in core are Prismatic Spray/Wall/Sphere, and Contingency. Anything else can be recreated/reproduced by conjuration or another school, and it gets even worse outside of core.

Prismatic Wall and Sphere are abjuration, although I agree they should be evocation like the other energy walls. As far as good evocation goes, you're forgetting the force effects.

This doesn't sit right with me for exactly the same reason that the Orbs don't. "It's conjure-y energy blasts!" and "it's energy-y pastries!" seem like equally nonsensical justifications for putting spells in what's outright the wrong school. I would rather fix the problem by actually putting spells in the right school to begin with. It's a bigger project, but this way results in schools not actually meaning anything.


Immediately, centered on the consumer. I will clarify the wording.

That's some party-unfriendly bread! :smallbiggrin:

What about spells with shapeable, non-readily-centerable AoE? Insect Plague and Fire Storm are both shapeable, and Insect Plague in particular has a small enough AoE that making it include the eater is potentially crippling.

unosarta
2011-01-31, 05:53 PM
Prismatic Wall and Sphere are abjuration, although I agree they should be evocation like the other energy walls. As far as good evocation goes, you're forgetting the force effects.

This doesn't sit right with me for exactly the same reason that the Orbs don't. "It's conjure-y energy blasts!" and "it's energy-y pastries!" seem like equally nonsensical justifications for putting spells in what's outright the wrong school. I would rather fix the problem by actually putting spells in the right school to begin with. It's a bigger project, but this way results in schools not actually meaning anything.

The description in the PHB:
Evocation: Evocation spells manipulate energy or tap an unseen source of power to produce a desired end. In effect, they create something out of nothing.

Conjuration (creation): A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above).

The matter that the Prismatic Baked Goods/Shot Glass/Baguette is made out of literally not exist, prior to the casting of the spells. They aren't taken from somewhere else (plane of pastry; someone get on that), and they are not assembled from stuff lying around. They are spontaneously created. Yes this breaks the Law of Conservation of Mass. Yes, magic does not care about that. Functionally, though, the Baked Goods/Shot Glass/Baguette are not really matter. They are the embodiment of the magical energy, prior to release. They are the energy, in a physical form, before it is used on a subject. The act of eating (or drinking) the substance is simply releasing the energy back into its latent form, to be consumed by the user.


That's some party-unfriendly bread! :smallbiggrin:

What about spells with shapeable, non-readily-centerable AoE? Insect Plague and Fire Storm are both shapeable, and Insect Plague in particular has a small enough AoE that making it include the eater is potentially crippling.


The consumer is immune to the effects.

Thusly, the effect is largely that of a bomb, unless targeted; the consumer eats the food, everyone nearby takes damage; the consumer walks away. Having allies in range is a bad idea, similarly to how bad of an idea it is to use AoE spells with allies in the area of the effect. This means that positioning become especially important. Also, it makes it pretty fun for a sneaky character, who can sneak in someplace, eat the bread, and then either A) kill everyone with the effect, B) heal yourself, no loss to the character, or C) teleport out. If the bread doesn't work while the character is sneaking around, give it to another PC, and let them get captured. At the last minute, while everyone is around the character, bam eat the bread. You won't get the first effect (either healing or teleporting). If you teleport back out, simply attack conventionally; if you heal, then call for your allies. It adds just a little bit more strategy and cooperation to the spell.

Benly
2011-01-31, 06:13 PM
I'm aware that the user is immune. Where I see an issue is that "centered on the eater" doesn't mean anything useful in cases where the AoE is shapeable and hence not predetermined, which is the case with two of the three AoE spells on the list.

unosarta
2011-01-31, 06:16 PM
I'm aware that the user is immune. Where I see an issue is that "centered on the eater" doesn't mean anything useful in cases where the AoE is shapeable and hence not predetermined, which is the case with two of the three AoE spells on the list.

Good point. In that case, they are shapeable, but the consumer must be within the area of effect. I will clarify.

Also; I wrote up the Prismatic Touch, Prismatic Ray, and Prismatic Bomb spells today, and I might have enough to make a domain.

unosarta
2011-02-01, 10:08 AM
Got a few of the spell up.


Prismatic Ray
Evocation
Level: Sorc/Wiz 2
Components: V, S.
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./caster level)
Target: One target within range
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text;
Spell Resistance: Yes

A ray of rainbow light arcs towards the target, bursting in a radiant light.

As a ranged touch attack, the caster sends an arc of rainbow light towards the target. The caster rolls a d8, and consults the table below:

{table=head]Result|Color|Effect


1|
Red| 1d6 fire damage/caster level (max. 5d6)


2|
Orange| 1d4 acid damage/caster level (max. 5d4)


3|
Yellow| 1d4 electricity damage/caster level (max. 5d4)


4|
Green|Deals 2 constitution damage, 2 the next minute (fort negates)


5|
Blue|Immobilizes the target for 1d4 rounds (will negates)


6|
Indigo|Target is panicked (will negates)


7|
Violet|Pushes the target back 30 feet (will for half)


8|
Two Colors|Roll Twice; Ignore any 8 Results[/table]



Prismatic Touch
Transmutation
Level: Sorc/Wizard 1
Components: V, S.
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: 1 ally within touch range
Duration: 1 minute per level
Saving Throw: harmless; will
Spell Resistance: no

Your hand turns a glowing rainbow-y color.

You touch the target. You must roll a d8, and the result is as the following on the table, affecting the subject touched.


{table=head]Result|Color|Effect


1|
Red| +2 to Strength


2|
Orange|+2 to Wisdom


3|
Yellow| +2 to Dexterity


4|
Green|+2 to Constitution


5|
Blue|+2 to Intelligence


6|
Indigo|Fast Healing 2


7|
Violet|+10 movement speed


8|
Two Colors|Roll Twice; Ignore any 8 Results[/table]


Prismatic Bomb
Evocation
Level: Sorc/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./caster level)
Effect: One bomb
Duration: Instantaneous; one round per caster level for individual effects
Saving Throw: see text;
Spell Resistance: no

A rainbow colored bomb appears. It has no fuse, but you can feel the energy that hums inside of it.

You create a bomb within range. If thrown, the bomb travels up to 30 feet, and explodes in a burst of magic, blinding those who see it that only possess 8 hit dice or less for 2d4 rounds. The caster rolls a d8, and creates an effect as per the table below.


{table=head]Result|Color|Effect


1|
Red|Wall of Fire


2|
Orange|A wall of acid (as wall of fire, but dealing acid damage)


3|
Yellow|A wall of lighting (as wall of fire, but electricity damage)


4|
Green|Wall of Thorns


5|
Blue|Wall of Stone


6|
Indigo|Symbol of Fear


7|
Violet|Gate to a random plane (plane traveling only, no summoning)


8|
Two Colors|Roll Twice; Ignore any 8 Results[/table]

If the bomb hits a target, they have a reflex save to avoid being stuck in the effect. If they fail, they are stuck, and must make a fortitude save each round. If they make the fortitude save two rounds in a row, they are free. They are affected by the spell while stuck in the effect. (in the case of Gate, they fall through.)

unosarta
2011-02-01, 10:22 AM
Rainbow Domain

Granted Powers: Once per day, you may choose to automatically roll an "eight" while rolling the effects for a Prismatic spell. You must do this before rolling for the spell, or for the effect the spell creates. You may do this an additional time per day by spending two turn attempts.

Rainbow Domain Spells


Prismatic Touch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10280850&postcount=43)
Prismatic Ray (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10280850&postcount=43)
Prismatic Baked Goods (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10268679&postcount=1)
Prismatic Shot Glass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10268679&postcount=1)
Prismatic Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10280850&postcount=43)
Prismatic Baguette (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10268679&postcount=1)
Prismatic Spray
Prismatic Wall
Prismatic Sphere