Immortal PC race [3.5 PEACH and help]

[Jarrick]

I've been meaning to create a race of immortals for more than one of my campaign settings. Humans who have undergone a long forgetten transformation to fight in an ancient war, or strange hermets naturally posessed of endless existance, immortals are a classic fantasy archtype that I'd like to have at my table.

Here's my first attempt. Some changes have been made. Let me know how this looks from a balance standpoint. :smallbiggrin:

Immortals
Medium Humanoid (Immortal)

+2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. An immortal's long life has taught her patience and wisdom, but has also eroded her personality. Most are stoic loners.

Immortal: Immortals are ageless, they suffer none of the effects of aging (neither bonuses nor penalties) and cannot be magically aged. Indeed most have existed for centuries. An immortal does not need to eat, drink, or sleep, but they do need to breathe. When an immortal is slain, his body reforms 1d12 days later at a location chosen by the immortal. The location must be a place the immortal has visited within one month per the immortal's wisdom modifier (minimum 1).

Limited Regeneration (Su): Any damage dealt to an immortal is converted to non-lethal damage, and heals at the normal rate. Fire and acid deal normal damage to an immortal. Immortals can regrow lost portions of their bodies over the course of an hour and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached within one hour.

Experienced (Ex): In their long existance, immortals pick up a great deal of stray knowledge. Immortals gain a +2 racial bonus on all knowledge checks and treat all knowledge skills as class skills no matter what class they choose to follow. In addition, immortals are proficient with all simple and martial weapons.

Starting languages: Common, and any single other language chosen by the player.

Bonus languages: Any

Favored class: Any

Level adjustment: +2? (for now)

Any thoughts? They seem a little lackluster right now... :smallconfused:

[Noblesse]

Sounds a little overpowered honestly, they never require raise dead / reincarnation and they get fast healing 1, so they'll almost never require out-of-combat healing (which personally I don't think is too bad)

As much as I like the idea of an immortal race, it's not not realistically possible to make it balanced mechanically.

The fast healing/regeneration I'd say is fine, the immortality part is the only issue.

Edit: But, I guess that doesn't make them 'strong' just 'annoying and hard to get rid of for good'

[Jarrick]

Sounds a little overpowered honestly, they never require raise dead / reincarnation and they get fast healing 1, so they'll almost never require out-of-combat healing (which personally I don't think is too bad)

As much as I like the idea of an immortal race, it's not not realistically possible to make it balanced mechanically.

The fast healing/regeneration I'd say is fine, the immortality part is the only issue.

That's odd, I thought it would be the other way around. :smallconfused:

Maybe its because no one in my group ever bothers to get rezzed, preferring instead to make a new character, which frankly gets annoying sometimes... :smallannoyed:

Anyways, as written they are effectively out of commision for the duration of the adventure if they die, so I was kind of hoping that that would even things out a little...

Maybe this would work better as a template? Anyone know what kind of LA that would carry?

[Barbarian MD]

Regeneration is not simply fast healing. Regeneration means that you can be reduced to negative hit points and come right back, whereas you would have died if all you had was fast healing. Regeneration transforms damage to nonlethal. That regeneration ability is between 1 and 2 LA.

I'd say this is at least two, if not three LA, for the regeneration alone... I'd grant immortality at 0 LA as a DM. Maybe 1 LA, if there were some pretty snazzy abilities to go with it.

There's an "immortal" or "eternal" creature template floating around on these boards. No link for you, but they put it at 4 LA, giving it hefty bonuses and scaling fast healing and what-not.

Edit: Whoops, terribly sorry. I glossed over immortality without fully reading it, understanding it to mean old age. This is firmly 4 LA, comparing it to a lich, who has basically the same primary ability but with a high gp/xp cost.

[Jarrick]

I considered the lich, of course, but thought that since immortals are still humanoids and dont get those nice undead traits and ability adjustments that liches get, I hoped it wouldnt be as powerful...

+4 might be worth it, but I would want to round out the LA a little to make it more interesting since they dont really get a lot. I cant think of much that would fit though.

[Benly]

Personally I don't think this race needs a high LA. I think the immortality is overpriced on the lich. Something important to bear in mind is that immortality is less valuable to a hero than an NPC lich, because it doesn't actually make you better at stopping the Sinister Scheme, whereas it does help you withstand heroes stopping your Sinister Scheme. Practically speaking, Immortal is a flavor benefit. If anything merits LA, it's the regeneration - but a human with Troll-Blooded has that too.

[Bibliomancer]

Something to keep in mind when designing this build is that the benefits of immunity from aging are available from a feat from Dragon Magazine called "Eternal" or something similar to that. I read the edition at one point but I don't remember the magazine number.

Anyways, the feat itself granted immunity to aging (no penalties or bonuses accrued) plus a minor mechanical benefit roughly equivalent to your experienced racial feature for the price of a feat.

From a flavor standpoint, these immortals could simply be ageless. There is little difference between a hermit who has lived forever and can't be killed and a hermit who has lived forever, unless you anticipate the players attempting to kill him and you need him around. If anything, the feat is more useful because it gives the players the chance to have the satisfaction of killing someone who has existed for millenia.

[Jarrick]

hmm... I wish I could get a few more opinions, since the jury seems to be out on which ability is more powerful. It would make it easier to decide where to go with this.

What if I got rid of the regeneration? Or made it regeneration 0 so they dont actually heal but gain the other benefits of having regeneration?

I hate to do that though, I like that "shoot me again, I ain't dead yet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTFhpeneY4I)" feeling ala Dorian Gray (league of extraordinary gentlemen) and Kaim Argonar and the other immortals (lost odyssey), picking themselves up mid-battle to keep fighting. If I take it away, I still have basically the Gandalf effect though...

If I removed the Gandalf effect instead and left the regeneration, they'd be much easier to kill, akin to trolls, which is a little less than what I was going for, though it wouldnt be too bad. I could rule that nothing overcomes their regeneration, that way the only way to keep one down is to either wish it dead or throw it in a volcano or something. Disintegrate would likely ruin their day too.

I intended this to be as available to PCs as it is to DMs, with Immortality being their key racial/template trait, so I want to make it as accessible as possible.

[Obrysii]

Hm...

The Regeneration is worth LA +2 by itself. Make it weaker and you might be able to lower it.

The lich-like reformation technique is what makes it dangerous - though such abilities are generally not listed with LA because LA is a measure of how powerful a creature is in combat, and this technique is decidedly not useful in combat. So I'd peg it at LA +1.

I would increase their stats - probably Int +4, Wis +2, Cha -2 ... and make it a comfortable LA +3.

[Jarrick]

Think I could get away with +1 if I remove the regeneration entirely and give them a flat +2 Wis? Maybe throw in immunity to death effects and energy drain?

[radmelon]

I myself like the regeneration 0 idea.

[Jarrick]

Ok, like that?

Edit: changed "experienced" a little too.

[Hyooz]

>.>

<.<

What happens when you cut off their heads? Do you take their power?
THE QUICKENING!!!!!!!!

[Jarrick]

>.>

<.<

What happens when you cut off their heads? Do you take their power?
THE QUICKENING!!!!!!!!

Hey, if you want your campaign to work like that, who am I to stop you? :smalltongue:

[Amechra]

An idea for the Immortal section: instead of making the bypass come from fire and acid, may I suggest it coming from certain material types, that otherwise aren't made into weapons? Like, perhaps, coal? Or a certain alchemical mixture, lovely for most people, but painful poison for an immortal?

Another idea would be that positive energy has odd interactions around them...

[Jallorn]

With regards to the Immortality thing, it works in time sensitive campaigns well, since the PCs often can't wait 1d12 days to reform. It would make for a character who feels comfortable risking his life a lot more, he can't actually lose it.

And if the player doesn't mind playing a different character for a while, the PCs can continue on their adventure, and then the old character can show up heroically at a later date.:smallcool: