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View Full Version : Shadowrun 4e lunacy.



Fenrazer
2011-01-31, 04:32 PM
So in Shadowrun 4e, I am noticing that it is very much like a huge game of "Smear The Queer". Yesterday I walked into a nest of hell with my crew of Runners.

There baddies were: Vanilla Christ (Rigger/Mage), Optimis Pinkeye (Albino Mage), El Wrong Hombre(Homebrew Chupacabra Shaman), Isa(Cyber), Kemuri(Toxic mage), Thulu(Adept Ork) and a few Toxic spirits.

My crew was: Feyder (Channeling Mage), Spark (Aspected Electrical Street Mage), Alpha 21 (Street Samurai), Kurys (Hacker/Rigger) Gallant Fox (Buff Mage), Trollman (Cybered Surge Troll)

The fight lasted three and a half hours, but there were only two full rounds. The problem is that folks died like we were an assembly line of murder. All of the baddies were dead, or had fled by the time there was only one person left to act in the second round.

My questions are two:

1) Does anybody know a good site that has the varying formulas for Shadowrun dice combination's? It would shave off a great portion of time if I didn't have to be turning through so many pages for To-hits, Drains, and the infinite combination's of resistance dice pools. I give my players the formulas and tell them to write them down so that eventually they will know exactly what to do once they choose their actions, but it doesn't really happen.

2) Without fudging rolls and giving everybody immunity to weapons, is there any way to make fewer baddies with more efficiency that aren't a Player Character recycle bin? I want to get more out of our time than two fragging actions per person, but with as quick as the baddies were dying, I am worried that the fights will all be over lickety-split-like.

So far, Vanilla Christ and his bodyguard Cyborg, Isa, are the only ones who have survived on a regular basis, but they are amped up so much that they nearly tear us a new one on any given turn.

Ideas?

GreyMantle
2011-01-31, 05:04 PM
2) Shadowrun combat is meant to be lethal. The idea is that players should really be trying to avoid combat via stealth and such. And, as such, going first gives you a huge advantage.

If you want to lengthen badguy survivaltimes, an option is to try to have enemies and players be firing from cover or have bad visibility.


But shootouts in SR are really not meant to last a long time ingame. They play out like the end of Reservoir Dogs or Apaloosa.

Fenrazer
2011-02-01, 01:12 AM
Ahhh. See I am more used to D&D style.

So few turns is pretty much a good thing then?

The New Bruceski
2011-02-01, 01:23 AM
Do what to the who now?

GoodbyeSoberDay
2011-02-01, 01:26 AM
Two rounds is standard fare, but not 3+ hours of play. Dice rolling programs are the right direction, but some simple rules familiarity and focus goes a long way as well.

JaronK
2011-02-01, 01:27 AM
In Shadowrun, you're not supposed to get into serious fights all the time or you'll die. It's a very lethal game... hiding and avoiding the fight is usually better. Achieve the mission. If you play kick in the door, at some point someone's supposed to have a claymore wired to the door.

JaronK

Mark Hall
2011-02-01, 11:08 AM
In Shadowrun, you're not supposed to get into serious fights all the time or you'll die. It's a very lethal game... hiding and avoiding the fight is usually better. Achieve the mission. If you play kick in the door, at some point someone's supposed to have a claymore wired to the door.

JaronK

Please tell this to my players. I'm running a hacker/rigger, and pretty much every game has me coming up with a decent plan... which they then procede to chop, blow, and slash their way through.

Tyger
2011-02-01, 12:07 PM
Yeah, Shadowrun is lethal, plain and simple. My regular group is about to commence their first ever SR game, and I have been trying to impress upon them the idea that if the guns come out, things have gone wrong. We'll see how long it takes to get that across.

I do question the choice of words above though... "smear the queer" is going to upset a lot of people (myself included), unless there is some context you provide and quickly.

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-02-01, 01:34 PM
Please tell this to my players. I'm running a hacker/rigger, and pretty much every game has me coming up with a decent plan... which they then procede to chop, blow, and slash their way through.

Indeed, we've had one player who plays one decidedly Pink Mohawk character after another, while the rest of our party (a Technomancer, a Rigger, and me, the Hacker) are trying to play Mirrorshades. It was annoying the first time our cunning plan was ruined by his trigger-happy behavior, but the fifth or sixth time? /shakes head

The Valiant Turtle
2011-02-01, 01:46 PM
Indeed, we've had one player who plays one decidedly Pink Mohawk character after another, while the rest of our party (a Technomancer, a Rigger, and me, the Hacker) are trying to play Mirrorshades. It was annoying the first time our cunning plan was ruined by his trigger-happy behavior, but the fifth or sixth time? /shakes head

You know, between the 3 of you, you might be able to modify his weapon to make it better! By better I mean it will only fire when you enable it of course.

The New Bruceski
2011-02-01, 02:10 PM
I do question the choice of words above though... "smear the queer" is going to upset a lot of people (myself included), unless there is some context you provide and quickly.


Indeed. There's a reason the standard term is Rocket Tag.

Trekkin
2011-02-01, 02:19 PM
Indeed. There's a reason the standard term is Rocket Tag.

It might also be recognizable as kill-the-carrier, muckle, or reverse tag; I didn't know anyone called it Rocket Tag.

VirOath
2011-02-01, 02:31 PM
Well, combat is best handled by having the advantage. Simply put, you never, ever want to get into a fair fight. You want to have better cover, or the first shot, or be the ambush. And even then, you want to have a gameplan on how to get the drek out of there.

Kicking in the door is a bad idea, but blowing out the back wall as a last resort is good. Just always remember that you want to keep yourself as low as possible, try to stay under the radar and when you have to poke your head out and get noticed then go to ground after and hide until the fallout blows over. This is why Safehouses are a good thing.

Though, to speed it up, I suggest everyone writes out their base dice pools for skills and powers. Skills are easy, but mages tend to be pretty complex, having three in the party will really slow it down.

So I suggest you pre-calculate the base casting pool, the base resisting pool, then having your variable dice added to them on the sheet itself as is the common method of having them split up. If they have more then one division for that, have them written down as well in sequence so they can pick when casting. Have the drain for the common force levels of your spells written out as well.

Ideally, you want as little calculation done at the table when playing as a mage. You just want to look at what you are casting, pick up the right dice pools and throw them.

Even better, if the player has two different colors of dice (I have red and black d6s, along with a set of marble d6s) then they can roll their casting and drain rolls at the same time.

Streamlining the mages turns will really speed things up, and it's honestly not helping that the party is going up against casters as well.

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-02-01, 02:39 PM
You know, between the 3 of you, you might be able to modify his weapon to make it better! By better I mean it will only fire when you enable it of course.

The trouble is, he's gone through three characters so far (the rest of us are still on our originals) and the current one is a mage. And none of us have counterspelling.

VirOath
2011-02-01, 02:53 PM
The trouble is, he's gone through three characters so far (the rest of us are still on our originals) and the current one is a mage. And none of us have counterspelling.

Well, if you want him in the group (because Shadowrun is sadly a game of consistency, the clash that you are experiencing is bad) and he won't smooth out some bumps, he might just be of the opinion that doing things without combat is just boring.

So, try to actually have a point in the plan that is "Well, at this point things should be FUBAR and we have to just blast our way out." because the planning is fun and all, there is a lot of stress adapting to fit the plan, but having it go off without a hitch every time can really be boring. And if his characters are geared solely to combat, then he would feel left out and sitting on the sidelines throughout a perfect run.

If that doesn't work. Threats and tranq patches.

But honestly, this sounds like a conflict of what the different players want out of the game. Sitting down and talking about it is your best solution, and accommodating what he wants out of the game, and in return him accommodating the rest of the group, is what makes a good group.

Asheram
2011-02-01, 03:04 PM
The trouble is, he's gone through three characters so far (the rest of us are still on our originals) and the current one is a mage. And none of us have counterspelling.

If you don't mind splitting the party, he seems like the perfect guy to organize tailchasers while the rest of you have your own fun.

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-02-01, 03:16 PM
Well, if you want him in the group (because Shadowrun is sadly a game of consistency, the clash that you are experiencing is bad) and he won't smooth out some bumps, he might just be of the opinion that doing things without combat is just boring.

So, try to actually have a point in the plan that is "Well, at this point things should be FUBAR and we have to just blast our way out." because the planning is fun and all, there is a lot of stress adapting to fit the plan, but having it go off without a hitch every time can really be boring. And if his characters are geared solely to combat, then he would feel left out and sitting on the sidelines throughout a perfect run.

If that doesn't work. Threats and tranq patches.

But honestly, this sounds like a conflict of what the different players want out of the game. Sitting down and talking about it is your best solution, and accommodating what he wants out of the game, and in return him accommodating the rest of the group, is what makes a good group.

Fortunately he's starting to get with the program, but you're right, it is more of an out of game issue than an in game one. Still, we're working on it.


If you don't mind splitting the party, he seems like the perfect guy to organize tailchasers while the rest of you have your own fun.

Now there's an idea...

VirOath
2011-02-01, 04:13 PM
Fortunately he's starting to get with the program, but you're right, it is more of an out of game issue than an in game one. Still, we're working on it.

Good, just be sure to give a little as well. After all, some of my fondest memories are when "Combat happened"

Me: "We need suppressive fire!"
Rigger: "Mark the target area."
Me: "The Third floor!"
Rigger "What?!"
Me: "The target is the whole drekking third floor!"

JaronK
2011-02-01, 04:23 PM
Please tell this to my players. I'm running a hacker/rigger, and pretty much every game has me coming up with a decent plan... which they then procede to chop, blow, and slash their way through.

They'll do what works. If you don't give them a reason not to do this, they'll keep doing it. Put up realistic opposition and if they die, they die, and if they fail the mission, they fail the mission. Then they can try again with new characters or deal with worse jobs for a while because they got stupid.

Security doesn't sit around like monsters in dungeons waiting to be hacked to bits. They should have contingency plans that actually work, such that players do NOT want the contingency plan to go off. Home office gets a call at the first sign of trouble asking for backup. Security officers have gas masks and sensitive areas get flooded with dangerous gas when alarms trigger. Heavy blast doors on a 1 hour timer come down when the alarm goes off, which can't be opened except by said timer (so you can't hack them back open) and which take at least an hour to cut through. Security has fallback points with cover and other protection. Stuff like that.

JaronK

Mark Hall
2011-02-01, 04:44 PM
I'm not the DM. I'm just a hacker who doesn't want to get shot at, much less shot.

Asheram
2011-02-02, 09:55 AM
Now there's an idea...

Every item or person can be used, if only as bait or for distraction

Fenrazer
2011-02-02, 08:53 PM
I do question the choice of words above though... "smear the queer" is going to upset a lot of people (myself included), unless there is some context you provide and quickly.

I realize we are most likely indoor types here, but a quick google search would show you that it is a semi-famous form of every-man-for-himself style football. No need to accuse when Google finds the context for us. :smallsmile:

EDIT: And sorry to say that I have never heard it called Rocket Tag, or anything else.

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-02-02, 11:27 PM
Not to totally threadjack, but on the subject of Shadowrun 4e Lunacy, I'm joining a "Freaks" campaign, so the other characters are two Nosferatoi (one Blaster Mage, one Gunbunny), a Ghoul (Razerboi), and a Vampire (Possession Mage). And we're getting a Pixie Rigger (Tech Adept).

They asked me to play a Cyberzombie. A Face Cyberzombie. And they're giving me 15,000,000 nuyen to play with. And 1300 Karma (we're using Karmagen).

This is gonna be fun.

Trekkin
2011-02-02, 11:47 PM
Not to totally threadjack, but on the subject of Shadowrun 4e Lunacy, I'm joining a "Freaks" campaign, so the other characters are two Nosferatoi (one Blaster Mage, one Gunbunny), a Ghoul (Razerboi), and a Vampire (Possession Mage). And we're getting a Pixie Rigger (Tech Adept).

They asked me to play a Cyberzombie. A Face Cyberzombie. And they're giving me 15,000,000 nuyen to play with. And 1300 Karma (we're using Karmagen).

This is gonna be fun.

And to threadjack your threadjack, I'm GMing a Shadowrun campaign in which the first session took eight hours of real time (and only stopped there because it was 1 AM) to do ten minutes of in-game things. The group consists of
1. a seventeen-year-old hyper-charismatic rich Bellevue script kiddie who runs as a form of rebellion against his Humanis parents.
2. his eight-year-old technomancer sister who's been basically raised by sprites and now uses them to make her dolls more lifelike/hijack cars out of whimsy.
3. the AI that evolved out of 1's attempt to create a personafix chip of the pop star with whom he's obsessed and currently lives in his programming suite.

Thus far, they've taken a job, done multiple traces, made sprites that look like Care Bears, gotten a threat to expose their Shadowrunning to the world unless they kill the Johnson from whom they got the original job within 24 hours, made friends with a chatroom of terribly posh ghouls and defeated a hextet of IC modeled after an abbreviated version of the Fellowship of the Ring to defeat each other by spoofing commands to the Gandalf and Frodo of the set to turn on the rest of them.

Without leaving the older brother's room.
The next day is a school day and their parents do not abide staying up late on a school night, let alone truancy.
This is lunacy, and should therefore be hilarious.