[DnD 3.5] First time Psionic looking for advice

[theonesin]

We're starting a level 2 campaign soon, and I thought I'd give a Psionic class a try, since every other campaign I've been in banned them (usually because the DM didn't want to learn how they worked). I've never played one before, so I'm looking for advice on that.

In addition, I'd like some advice on building one that would compliment the party. We have a Wildshape Ranger (apparently using a bow until level 5), a Rogue specializing in shurikens, a Bard, and a Wizard. All books are allowed, and my starting scores are 17, 17, 15, 14, 11, 11.

Thanks.

[Greenish]

What do you want to do? Psychic Warrior is excellent gish in a can, tashatalora makes monk work, psions or wilders make excellent blasters, telepath/thrallherd is so much fun it's illegal in several countries, and with enough trickery psionic healing it also an option.

[Psyren]

What spec is the wizard? If you go psion, you'll want to do whatever he's not doing. (e.g. if he is a blaster, you be the controller.)

You could also use another frontliner, especially since it might take awhile for the Ranger to come online - Psywar or Ardent would fit perfectly here.

In either case, your stats are golden.

[Hammerhead]

Holy point buy Batman!

Your party looks pretty thiefish, beside the Wizard. And a Wizard should be able to run with that, if it needs to.

A Psion (or Factotum 1/Psion X) would work well with the stealth aspect of the group. Lurk and Psychic Rogue could also work, but Lurk's a bit more of a one-trick-pony than the others and P.Rogue could step on the other rogue's toes a little.

Psychic Warrior would tie the party together in a more traditional way, acting as the guy who stands in front and hits monsters with objects. Ardent and Wilder can also do that, sometimes better, but they each involve a bit more work.

[theonesin]

The Wizard says he's going to be somewhere between blaster, summoner, and controller.

I played a straight Factotum in a previous campaign, so I don't really want to use it again.

[Psyren]

The Wizard says he's going to be somewhere between blaster, summoner, and controller.

Sounds like he's spreading himself pretty thin; If you generalize as well, however, you might be able to pick up his slack. For instance, he only prepares 1 Web, you have Entangling Ectoplasm to help back him up, or more Grease to add to his etc.

The easiest ways to play to your strengths are to be a Nomad, Telepath or Seer. Leave the summoning and blasting to him, as he has more options for the former and can pile on metamagic for the latter. He or the Bard can also handle Illusions, another weak point for you. Instead, you be the know

Alternatively, with your great stats you could be an excellent gish. Ranger 2/Psion 8/Slayer 10 gets you 9th-level powers and 17 BAB, and unlike the Wizard you can cast perfectly fine in full plate with a tower shield. This route lets you help both the Wizard and the Ranger out as needed.

[theonesin]

There's been a change to the party makeup: The Rogue is now a Paladin, and the Wizard is now a Duskblade specializing in archery.

[Psyren]

There's been a change to the party makeup: The Rogue is now a Paladin, and the Wizard is now a Duskblade specializing in archery.

Sounds like you need a skillmonkey now. Can the Bard cover that role?

If not, may I suggest Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)?

Given that you played Factotum before, a skill-based character should be a cinch for you.

Alternatively, be a Psion and the party controller, and convince the Bard to go Beguiler.

[dsmiles]

Since you seem rogue-less, now, might I recommend the psyrogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)?

Dangit, Psyren, I got psy-ninja'd! :smalltongue:

[theonesin]

Another change: The Paladin is back to Rogue, and the Duskblade is now a Beguiler.

[Psyren]

Another change: The Paladin is back to Rogue, and the Duskblade is now a Beguiler.

How about you come back when this is finalized :smalltongue:

[theonesin]

It's finalized, as well as can be. The party is: Wildshape Ranger, Bard, Rogue, and Beguiler (or Duskblade. He literally says he might switch at the last minute, and already has it built too).

[Hammerhead]

It sounds like maxed Hide and Move Silently are going to be required.
Control Light and Sound are probably going to be invaluable, as well.

[Psyren]

Rogue AND Beguiler? :smallconfused:

Well, you've got traps covered... and enchantments too, so nix Telepath, and you'll need another frontliner. Unless he goes Duskblade, in which case you'll need a controller, but the Bard might be able to handle that anyway.

It's worth noting that Shaper is a safe bet either way.

[Greenish]

Well, you've got traps covered... and enchantments too, so nix Telepath, and you'll need another frontliner.Keep the telepath, you can't have enough mindslaves.

Which also means you'll need to go for thrallherd! :smallcool:

[Draz74]

It's worth noting that Shaper is a safe bet either way.

+1. Shaper is awesome anyway, and since the one player is being so annoyingly vague about whether he'll be playing the party tank, you should go for the Psionic build that can either be tank-y or not, as it likes.

[dsmiles]

Keep the telepath, you can't have enough mindslaves.

Which also means you'll need to go for thrallherd! :smallcool:Telepaths are the best EVAR!

[Kalaska'Agathas]

What do you want to do with your Psion, theonesin? That'll help us focus our build advice some. Do you want to go with a full manifester, like the Psion or Erudite, a more limited manifester, like an Ardent or Wilder, or a limited manifester, like a Psy-Rogue or Psychic Warrior? Do you want to blast like there's no tomorrow? Do you want to teleport around the battlefield, smacking your enemies as you do so? Do you want something in between?

[KillianHawkeye]

Another change: The Paladin is back to Rogue, and the Duskblade is now a Beguiler.

The Paladin is now diamonds. I'm on a forum!

:smallwink:

[theonesin]

I wanted something that wouldn't step on the shoes of another party member too much, though I know that I don't care for being a party buffer (don't know if Psions do that anyway). Looking at the Psion Handbook on WotC, the Nomad with its teleportation/time manipulation abilities sounded really interesting.

[Psyren]

A Nomad Gish would be great with your stats. Tons of mobility, and you can take over for being the party taxi since you don't have a wizard anymore.

The standard SRD build is Ranger 2/Psion 8/Slayer 10, and you can throw in a level of Elocater as well if you can spare the feats.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

And if you want, you could go the route of the Chrono-Legionnaire (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19859478/TeleporterConjurer_Gish?post_id=338080418#33808041 8) which is one of my absolute favorite builds. I'm using the same sort of tactics on a Tashalatora Erudite, and he is positively brutal.

[theonesin]

I must say, that build you linked too looks lovely. Question though, instead of taking Nomad 3/Ranger 1 for example, could you go Nomad 1/Ranger 1/Nomad 2, or would that cause any problems? I just ask because the lack of good weapon proficiencies and any armor proficiencies kind of puts me off.

[tyckspoon]

I must say, that build you linked too looks lovely. Question though, instead of taking Nomad 3/Ranger 1 for example, could you go Nomad 1/Ranger 1/Nomad 2, or would that cause any problems? I just ask because the lack of good weapon proficiencies and any armor proficiencies kind of puts me off.

That should be alright- it doesn't look like there's anything especially timing-dependant on that Ranger dip, as it's really just in there for the bonus Track feat and Know (Dungeoneering.) Should be fine wherever you want to put it as long as you hit the PrCs on schedule.. and there's a pretty good argument for putting it as your 1st level, for the maxed hit die and skills.

[theonesin]

Having the Ranger level first though would prevent me from taking the psionic-based feats that the build needs.

A question on the build though in regards to my stats: Other than one of my 17s going into Int, I'm not sure where to put the others, as the example build has three 14s, so I'm not sure which stats should take priority.

[Psyren]

I would actually start with Ranger for all the skill points, myself. You can also grab a shield at first level to help your AC. You won't get heavy armor for a little while though (Slayer) so rely on Inertial Armor until then.

EDIT:


Having the Ranger level first though would prevent me from taking the psionic-based feats that the build needs.

Easy solution there is to be a psionic race (Synad is an excellent choice.) Or just spend a feat on Hidden Talent and nab a free power.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I would actually start with Ranger for all the skill points, myself. You can also grab a shield at first level to help your AC. You won't get heavy armor for a little while though (Slayer) so rely on Inertial Armor until then.

EDIT:



Easy solution there is to be a psionic race (Synad is an excellent choice.) Or just spend a feat on Hidden Talent and nab a free power.

Dimension Hop is a great choice for Hidden talent.

[tyckspoon]

Having the Ranger level first though would prevent me from taking the psionic-based feats that the build needs.


Hmm.. no, not really. The only one at 1st level that is critical to the rest of the build is Overchannel, and that's because that's how you get a Psion into Anarchic Initiate. Psionic Weapon -> Deep Impact is nice but not really required to make the build, and Practiced Manifester can go in pretty much when and wherever you want- in fact, in the linked build order, it doesn't do anything at all at the time it's selected.

[theonesin]

Being Synad qualifies you for those feats?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Synad gives you 3 PP (IIRC) so yes since you have a PP reserve you are considered a psionic creature and this can take [psionic] feats.

[Psyren]

Being Synad qualifies you for those feats?

Having a PP reserve or psi-like abilities of any kind, regardless of the reason, qualifies you for psionic feats, as you become a psionic creature.

(I wonder if a wizard who somehow persisted Mental Pinnacle could take psionic feats also)

[theonesin]

I checked with my DM just to make sure he was ok with it, and he's fine with it. Is Synad the best psionic race, or would I get more out of a different one?

[Greenish]

I checked with my DM just to make sure he was ok with it, and he's fine with it. Is Synad the best psionic race, or would I get more out of a different one?Synads are pretty potent, but elans aren't bad either (Elan Retainment yay). Half-giants are pretty nice (with LA buyoff), but more aimed for gishin'. The rest aren't anything special (though I have a soft spot for xephs).

[theonesin]

I don't think we're using LA Buyoff, so I'm just going to stay away from LA+ races.

I'm trying to decide between Synad and Elan. Synad gets one extra PP, but the special abilities seem a little less useful than the Elan.

[Psyren]

I don't think we're using LA Buyoff, so I'm just going to stay away from LA+ races.

I'm trying to decide between Synad and Elan. Synad gets one extra PP, but the special abilities seem a little less useful than the Elan.

Don't forget Kalashtar, they get more bonus PP than the other two combined (eventually.) Though they are not aberrations like the other two.

Synad abilities are extremely useful. They get:

Darkvision
+2 untyped to Will saves
a +2 insight bonus you can apply to any roll (even after you know it fails, unlike many bonuses of this type)
Spend 1PP -> +2 untyped to Knowledge or Psicraft as a free action (there is no cap on this ability, not even your ML)
Multitask - their most powerful ability, gives you Schism at first-level 1/day. Only one action can be used to manifest, but that still lets you move+attack, full attack, total defense/withdraw, double move etc. with the other actions.


(They also have no Cha penalty if that matters.)

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Too bad you're not using LA buy-off - Empty Vessels (from the Eberron Campaign Setting, kinda like evil Kalashtar) are pretty potent. Decent ability boosts, a Kalashtar's bonus PP, and the Human bonus feat and skills.

As far as your build goes, it may be better to replace Nomad with a Nomad Variant Erudite (Favored Discipline ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a)), because of the greater number of Powers known. And Psyren has figured out how to get around their unique powers per day limit, under the Erudite Concerto (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177889) in my Psionic Tricks Handbook.

If you do go Erudite, you'll have to ask your DM if classes which advance manifesting count against you for purposes of being another Psionic class (Erudites lose the ability to add new powers to their repertoire if they gain levels in another Psionic class equal to their Erudite level). If they do, then you'll have to make sure you take more Erudite levels than PrC levels.