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Ninjaman
2011-02-22, 12:14 PM
Looks like a begging trick from the kids.

blackjack217
2011-02-22, 12:45 PM
Shiny bonus comic. Its like a birthday present!

Maquise
2011-02-22, 02:30 PM
The bar's called the Plot Hook. :smalltongue:

Anitar
2011-02-22, 03:48 PM
The bar's called the Plot Hook. :smalltongue:

Already noted when it first appeared, which was apparently long enough for me to incorporate a tavern by that name into one of my campaigns. And it was awesome.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-22, 03:59 PM
Looks like a begging trick from the kids.

It's not.


Already noted when it first appeared, which was apparently long enough for me to incorporate a tavern by that name into one of my campaigns. And it was awesome.

Oooh, you gotta tell me how that one went over! Please? :smallbiggrin:

Anitar
2011-02-22, 04:21 PM
Oooh, you gotta tell me how that one went over! Please? :smallbiggrin:

Well, it's a tavern specifically for adventurers looking for a party or a quest. The main room has every corner in shadow - even the ones on the ceiling - to maximize both of those, and the drinks can never make anyone drunk (to ensure they're choosing their plot hooks well), though unconsciousness and hangovers happen as usual. The bartender always has at least five quests ready for anyone in need, and holds a variety of portals behind the walls.

As with most taverns, there's an inn included, though this one has a strict anti-mage policy due to roaming creatures that literally eat magic. This runs on the honor system, because if anyone's stupid enough to break the rule and get attacked, they're the only one getting hurt. The bartender (but not the innkeeper) gets infuriated by violators on principle, and got an aneurysm from one of the players being magical in the inn.

Oh, and my The Plot Hook has magical cell phones.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-22, 04:23 PM
Nice. Did they love it?

Anitar
2011-02-22, 04:46 PM
Nice. Did they love it?

At first, but then one of the aforementioned magic-eating creatures managed to consume the best spell on the whole team. As in permanently.

RdMarquis
2011-02-22, 09:38 PM
I wanted a flashback and I got starving street urchins. I am not amused.

While it may not have been a traditional flashback, this could directly parallel something that happened to Janine. Admittedly, she'd feel obligated to help any children who needed it.

I quite liked the artwork for this comic. I'm a sucker for scenes that take place in the rain.

Oh, and Anitar, if you don't mind, I'm borrowing that bar idea for a campaign I'm running.

Anitar
2011-02-22, 10:10 PM
Oh, and Anitar, if you don't mind, I'm borrowing that bar idea for a campaign I'm running.

Okay. If you need any information about the still-not-named-in-thread magic eaters, just PM me.

leakingpen
2011-02-23, 02:55 AM
You say magical cell phones, Im kinda imagining the lip phones from the sex club in the Jim Carey movie, once bitten. Only instead of dialing another table to flirt and maybe hook up, you dial a table with the adventuring group that looks like they can handle your quest. I think the phones would be shaped like shields, or something. maybe treasure chests?

CWater
2011-02-23, 10:10 AM
I like this comic. It's atmosphere is...well, nice might not be the exactly right word, but as I said, I like it.:smallsmile:
I quite liked the artwork for this comic. I'm a sucker for scenes that take place in the rain.So am I.:smallbiggrin: (Unless they're so overdramatic that it's annoying, but this is not one of those cases.)

And a subtle hint of Janine's past... Actually, I think I prefer that to a real flashback at this point. I mean, we just got a whole backstory from another party member, it would feel too sudden for another long flashback. I'm eager to hear it in time though:smalltongue:

And a little...frightened is such a strong word, but something in that direction, since her past is obviously not filled with sunshine. ...Actually, my initial thought when I read her lines here was that she used to work as a prostitute or something.:smalleek: Oh me...

Draconi Redfir
2011-02-23, 11:05 AM
Cant high enough level clerics conjor food?

though i guess if she didint prepair the spell then she's outta luck.

RdMarquis
2011-02-23, 03:22 PM
Okay. If you need any information about the still-not-named-in-thread magic eaters, just PM me.

Thank you, but I probably won't be using magic eating creatures unless the PC's get extremely trigger happy with their magic.

Jade Dragon
2011-02-23, 03:37 PM
Well, it's a tavern specifically for adventurers looking for a party or a quest. The main room has every corner in shadow - even the ones on the ceiling - to maximize both of those, and the drinks can never make anyone drunk (to ensure they're choosing their plot hooks well), though unconsciousness and hangovers happen as usual. The bartender always has at least five quests ready for anyone in need, and holds a variety of portals behind the walls.

As with most taverns, there's an inn included, though this one has a strict anti-mage policy due to roaming creatures that literally eat magic. This runs on the honor system, because if anyone's stupid enough to break the rule and get attacked, they're the only one getting hurt. The bartender (but not the innkeeper) gets infuriated by violators on principle, and got an aneurysm from one of the players being magical in the inn.

Oh, and my The Plot Hook has magical cell phones.

I want to use that! Minus cell phones and magic eating creatures. And change the name to adventurer's haven, as that's more realistic.

Asta Kask
2011-02-24, 06:16 AM
Cant high enough level clerics conjor food?

though i guess if she didint prepair the spell then she's outta luck.

3rd level spell. If they can wait for 8 hours...

Draconi Redfir
2011-02-24, 07:10 AM
3rd level spell. If they can wait for 8 hours...

8 hours? really? i could bake a cake faster then that.

Symmys
2011-02-24, 10:08 AM
She's probably going to go buy some food in the Plot Hook- I seriously doubt that the place just sells drinks.

Cizak
2011-02-24, 10:55 AM
I don't get it, what made him fall over? He seemed healthy enough the panel before.

Herpestidae
2011-02-24, 12:01 PM
I don't get it, what made him fall over? He seemed healthy enough the panel before.

Operative word in bold.

HalfTangible
2011-02-24, 12:22 PM
I don't get it, what made him fall over? He seemed healthy enough the panel before.


Operative word in bold.

Didn't even SEEM all that healthy. He's bruised, beaten, dirty, and doing the classic 'i don't need no dang chariOHcrap there go my organs'

Jade Dragon
2011-02-24, 02:55 PM
I don't get it, what made him fall over? He seemed healthy enough the panel before.

He hasn't eaten in days.

And there wasn't a new strip yesterday!:smallfrown:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-24, 05:43 PM
Cyrus passed out from hunger; he hadn't eaten in days. And sorry that I didn't update yesterday, but I have several projects and assignments due Monday that are rather important, even if I've already been accepted into college! Update tomorrow morning.

Jade Dragon
2011-02-24, 07:02 PM
Update tomorrow morning.

Yay! :smallbiggrin:

Lycan 01
2011-02-24, 07:34 PM
Ooooo, new characters with a potential side-quest. Yay for bonus XP! :smallbiggrin:

Devmaar
2011-02-24, 08:34 PM
Ooooo, new characters with a potential side-quest. Yay for bonus XP! :smallbiggrin:

I'm intrigued, what xp-worthy challenges do you expect to overcome in the process of obtaining some basic foodstuffs?

Qwertystop
2011-02-24, 08:41 PM
I'm intrigued, what xp-worthy challenges do you expect to overcome in the process of obtaining some basic foodstuffs?

Oatmeal + Animated Object = FUN!

blackjack217
2011-02-24, 08:42 PM
I'm intrigued, what xp-worthy challenges do you expect to overcome in the process of obtaining some basic foodstuffs?

Quest xp. Some DM's use it whenever you do a job, its a way to speed up level progression. Computer games make extensive use of it as well.

Qwertystop
2011-02-24, 08:44 PM
Quest xp. Some DM's use it whenever you do a job, its a way to speed up level progression. Computer games make extensive use of it as well.

Yeah, I prefer my explanation.


Oatmeal + Animated Object = FUN!
:smallwink:
Especially if the bowl and spoon are hit too! :smallbiggrin:

Jade Dragon
2011-02-24, 08:53 PM
Oatmeal + Animated Object = FUN!
yeah.:smallamused:

Yeah, I prefer my explanation.

Seconded.:smallbiggrin:

Devmaar
2011-02-24, 09:28 PM
Oatmeal + Animated Object = FUN!

Well yes, but this does raise just a couple of questions

1. Who animated the oatmeal? I mean seriously, who does that?
2. Was there really no inanimate food whatsoever? You expect me to believe that the only viable food source has been converted into a tiny gooey engine of death?

Anyway, oatmeal that's been walking around on the floor isn't exactly hygienic.

GreenMuffin
2011-02-24, 10:06 PM
Well yes, but this does raise just a couple of questions

1. Who animated the oatmeal? I mean seriously, who does that?
2. Was there really no inanimate food whatsoever? You expect me to believe that the only viable food source has been converted into a tiny gooey engine of death?

Anyway, oatmeal that's been walking around on the floor isn't exactly hygienic.


who wouldn't animate oatmeal?
why go for the boring stationary stuff when you can go for the kung-fu glop of awesomeness?
Screw hygiene. I prefer awesome

Devmaar
2011-02-24, 10:16 PM
who wouldn't animate oatmeal?
why go for the boring stationary stuff when you can go for the kung-fu glop of awesomeness?
Screw hygiene. I prefer awesome

I'm just saying, that kid looks to be in a pretty serious situation, it could be worthwhile getting him some food that won't run away.

In a less urgent situation I would agree that food is better in the 'engine-of-death' format.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-25, 12:32 AM
Here it is, the Friday update! Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to sleep.

#119: Devotion
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/Devotion.png

Lord Raziere
2011-02-25, 12:37 AM
oh right......homeless children raises the question whats happening with the orphanage itself.... I wonder whats happening there that is bad?

Herpestidae
2011-02-25, 12:51 AM
... I think I'm piecing it all together now.

Lycan 01
2011-02-25, 12:58 AM
Eek. That's got some pretty bad implications... :smallfrown:

Silverraptor
2011-02-25, 01:04 AM
Ya. The Orphanage is better than the Church currently. Better take them there...

blackjack217
2011-02-25, 01:18 AM
"Please don't die too!" :smallfrown:
That's ... sad.

Strife Warzeal
2011-02-25, 02:06 AM
"...taken care of by the clerics..." then proceed to eek face.

Why did I get a flash of imagery of a Water-smurf story?
Or am I just reading way too much into it.

Draconi Redfir
2011-02-25, 05:50 AM
"...taken care of by the clerics..." then proceed to eek face.

Why did I get a flash of imagery of a Water-smurf story?
Or am I just reading way too much into it.

"the master" also came to mind in this head.

Something tells me Coffie liked Water-smurfs Tiassal storys :P

Devmaar
2011-02-25, 07:09 AM
If Janine's experiences with the church were so bad, what inspired her to join up? :smallconfused:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-25, 08:09 AM
Janine is extremely devout. What happened is...Complicated. I won't reveal explicitly what happened until the prequel, but in Murphy's Law proper I will reveal enough information for you guys to piece it all together. Suffice to say that Janine's past was not filled with sunshine and lollipops. Herpestidae, what's your theory?

Herpestidae
2011-02-25, 08:13 AM
I'm imagining a mirror of the Altar Boy/ Priest shenanigans of a while back.

HalfTangible
2011-02-25, 08:15 AM
Janine is extremely devout. What happened is...Complicated. I won't reveal explicitly what happened until the prequel, but in Murphy's Law proper I will reveal enough information for you guys to piece it all together. Suffice to say that Janine's past was not filled with sunshine and lollipops. Herpestidae, what's your theory?
Was it filled with moonlight and soda? =D

...no? =(

Jade Dragon
2011-02-25, 10:12 AM
Janine is extremely devout. What happened is...Complicated. I won't reveal explicitly what happened until the prequel, but in Murphy's Law proper I will reveal enough information for you guys to piece it all together. Suffice to say that Janine's past was not filled with sunshine and lollipops. Herpestidae, what's your theory?

There's gonna be a prequel?:smallconfused:

Dusk Eclipse
2011-02-25, 10:13 AM
There's gonna be a prequel?:smallconfused:

And a sequel IIRC, yep coffee is really ambitious.

Draconi Redfir
2011-02-25, 10:39 AM
Coffee has already planned so far ahead and behind of the Murphy’s universe, she is at the point were humans have plains, Dwarves have spaceships, and back to the beginning of time.

Silverraptor
2011-02-25, 11:43 AM
Janine is extremely devout. What happened is...Complicated. I won't reveal explicitly what happened until the prequel, but in Murphy's Law proper I will reveal enough information for you guys to piece it all together. Suffice to say that Janine's past was not filled with sunshine and lollipops. Herpestidae, what's your theory?

I even hinted at this as well.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-25, 04:19 PM
And a sequel IIRC, yep coffee is really ambitious.

"Yes my teeth and ambition are bared. BE PREPARED!"

Although, I doubt Coffee sounds like Jeremy irons/Jim cummings.

Jade Dragon
2011-02-25, 05:24 PM
And a sequel IIRC, yep coffee is really ambitious.
Ooooh, yay! More comics other than the ones about the party!:smallbiggrin:

Of course, it means you won't reveal their entire backstories right away.:smallfrown:

Coffee has already planned so far ahead and behind of the Murphy’s universe, she is at the point were humans have plains, Dwarves have spaceships, and back to the beginning of time.
I don't believe that, but it would be cool.:smallsmile:

Lix Lorn
2011-02-25, 05:42 PM
:smalleek:
When was there a new thread why did I not know.
I saw the link in mongoose' sig and thought 'Hmm, that's been quiet recently.'

...Well now I have stuff to do for the next 30 mins! :smallsmile:

Make that seconds. I R FAST.

Thoughts: Wow, Janine has more issues than we know about. Curious.

blackjack217
2011-02-25, 05:48 PM
A copper piece for your thoughts.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-25, 07:26 PM
Yeah...I've got two prequels and two sequels planned. It just sort of...Spiraled. :smalltongue:

And I really want to hear what you have to say about this update.

Chilingsworth
2011-02-25, 10:13 PM
Yeah...I've got two prequels and two sequels planned. It just sort of...Spiraled. :smalltongue:

And I really want to hear what you have to say about this update.

Well, one possibility I just thought of: When she said she "Knows really well that the church takes in orphans without question," maybe she was abandoned by her parents, for no good reason. Just my guess.

SoupLadle
2011-02-26, 12:05 AM
I think... that summoned food looks like a giant, multi-yolked egg. Yeah, I don't know. :smalltongue: I'm inclined to agree with Chilingsworth.

Mystic Muse
2011-02-26, 12:16 AM
I think... that summoned food looks like a giant, multi-yolked egg. Yeah, I don't know. :smalltongue: I'm inclined to agree with Chilingsworth.

Yay!, I'm not the only one who thought this!

blackjack217
2011-02-26, 01:09 AM
Well, one possibility I just thought of: When she said she "Knows really well that the church takes in orphans without question," maybe she was abandoned by her parents, for no good reason. Just my guess.

I think she was abandoned for being a bastard.

Chilingsworth
2011-02-26, 10:16 AM
I think she was abandoned for being a bastard.

Do you mean in the "illegitimate child" sense, or the "horribly irritating person" sense? If it's the former, still "no good reason." If it's the latter, then abandonment might be understandable.

HalfTangible
2011-02-26, 10:35 AM
Do you mean in the "illegitimate child" sense, or the "horribly irritating person" sense? If it's the former, still "no good reason." If it's the latter, then abandonment might be understandable.

Or both =/

Draconi Redfir
2011-02-26, 10:38 AM
could also be in the "has no father" sense.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-02-26, 10:49 AM
Do you mean in the "illegitimate child" sense, or the "horribly irritating person" sense? If it's the former, still "no good reason." If it's the latter, then abandonment might be understandable.

I imagine it is the former. I can't remember which strip exactly but I do remember at one point when one character called another 'bastard' Janine insisted that she wasn't one, she was just 'born six months early' or something along those lines. The rest of the party/everybody else there pretty much ignored this comment, possibly because they didn't hear.

[Goes off for an archive trawl]

EDIT: it's five months premature (http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/240Proof.png) in the strip called '240 Proof', apparently. (Number 45) And Tinder responds to the 'five months premature' thing with a sad face and Matt stops questioning her about girl on girl action to apologise to her so there was some reaction to her mentioning it.

Jade Dragon
2011-02-26, 01:37 PM
Yeah...I've got two prequels and two sequels planned. It just sort of...Spiraled. :smalltongue:


Add this comic and that's FIVE THINGS!:smalleek: This is gonna last longer than OOTS...

Raging Gene Ray
2011-02-26, 01:38 PM
oh right......homeless children raises the question whats happening with the orphanage itself.... I wonder whats happening there that is bad?

...I assumed that the children were homeless because Cyrus (was that the boy's name?) wanted to be self-reliant, which would mean accepting no help from charities, orphanages, or strangers.

Chilingsworth
2011-02-26, 05:46 PM
I think... that summoned food looks like a giant, multi-yolked egg. Yeah, I don't know. :smalltongue: I'm inclined to agree with Chilingsworth.

That's a good point: What is that stuff supposed to be, anyway? :smallconfused:

(And I'm not just agreeing because Soupladle agreed with me :smalltongue:)

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-26, 06:42 PM
It's some sort of gruel with egg yolks. And no, Janine was not born 5 months premature. Her mom was pregnant with her when she got married.

Chilingsworth
2011-02-26, 08:04 PM
It's some sort of gruel with egg yolks.

That sounds kinda unappetizing. But if you're starving...

Anyway, Update today? *prays, makes puppyeyes, and otherwise shamelessly begs*

blackjack217
2011-02-26, 08:05 PM
That sounds kinda unappetizing. But if you're starving...

Anyway, Update today? *prays, makes puppyeyes, and otherwise shamelessly begs*

http://studentlifeceu.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/puppy_eyes-2.jpg
:smallbiggrin:

Chilingsworth
2011-02-26, 08:16 PM
http://studentlifeceu.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/puppy_eyes-2.jpg
:smallbiggrin:

Yup! That's what I'm going for! :smallbiggrin:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-02-26, 11:09 PM
It's some sort of gruel with egg yolks. And no, Janine was not born 5 months premature. Her mom was pregnant with her when she got married.

...That's actually about what I was guessing it was from the looks of it. Nutritionally sound I guess but man, you'd have to be hungry to eat it.

And I meant former rather than latter when talking about which sort of bastard Janine was. I'm slow but something that obvious I can pick up pretty easily - this time it was just my dyslexia playing tricks with me.

I'm kind of disappointed Janine's backstory isn't going to come up properly until the prequels, to be honest: Janine's a very lightly sketched character already so knowing that her backstory (which seems to hold the key to the way she is now) won't actually be delved into properly in Murphy's Law at all is kind of a downer. She hasn't had a lot to do so far apart from hitting on Lloyd and getting freaked out/ upset about things occaisionally. I suppose this story arc may change that a bit by putting her to the fore for once.

I suppose it was always going to be tricky getting the balance right with a core cast of six main characters who are usually dominating the same space. You've got to work harder to bring each of them out individually and as members of the group...

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-26, 11:15 PM
...That's actually about what I was guessing it was from the looks of it. Nutritionally sound I guess but man, you'd have to be hungry to eat it.

And I meant former rather than latter when talking about which sort of bastard Janine was. I'm slow but something that obvious I can pick up pretty easily - this time it was just my dyslexia playing tricks with me.

I'm kind of disappointed Janine's backstory isn't going to come up properly until the prequels, to be honest: Janine's a very lightly sketched character already so knowing that her backstory (which seems to hold the key to the way she is now) won't actually be delved into properly in Murphy's Law at all is kind of a downer. She hasn't had a lot to do so far apart from hitting on Lloyd and getting freaked out/ upset about things occaisionally. I suppose this story arc may change that a bit by putting her to the fore for once.

I suppose it was always going to be tricky getting the balance right with a core cast of six main characters who are usually dominating the same space. You've got to work harder to bring each of them out individually and as members of the group...

Well, it's basically oatmeal with hardboiled eggs or something? Nutritionally sound, but very bland. Then again, Janine didn't have much to work with either.

Speaking of Janine, like I said: I'm not going to explicitly show what happened to her until the prequel, but in Murphy's Law, I will give enough information for you guys to figure it out.

Jade Dragon
2011-02-26, 11:30 PM
If you're going to have this, and two sequels, and two prequels, than you should probably start your own website... Though I don't want to join any other forums, which I would have to do to comment on it if you did that.

Asta Kask
2011-02-27, 04:26 AM
No updates on Sundays. Coffee is rescuing puppies and kittens.

Jade Dragon
2011-02-27, 04:06 PM
No updates on Sundays. Coffee is rescuing puppies and kittens.

Like this?

http://www.innocentenglish.com/funny-pics/funny-pics/cat-saved-from-danger.jpg

CoffeeIncluded
2011-02-27, 06:40 PM
Like this?

http://www.innocentenglish.com/funny-pics/funny-pics/cat-saved-from-danger.jpg

Actually, I volunteer at an animal shelter.

Jade Dragon
2011-02-27, 06:59 PM
That's not saving animals! That's petting animals!:smalltongue:

Lord Raziere
2011-02-28, 12:21 AM
*puppey-eyes dog*
:smallbiggrin:

I have decided to formulate a response to this:

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk25/Trizap/Rorshachposter.png

bonus points if you get the real joke behind it.

HalfTangible
2011-02-28, 12:30 AM
I have decided to formulate a response to this:

[IMG]http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk25/Trizap/Rorshachposter.png[IMG]

bonus points if you get the real joke behind it.

He was talking about politicians and prostitutes, right? I remember reading something like that somewhere...

Lord Raziere
2011-02-28, 12:32 AM
He was talking about politicians and prostitutes, right? I remember reading something like that somewhere...

nope, thats only half of it, check later in the book.

remember I'm responding to the image of a dog......

HalfTangible
2011-02-28, 12:48 AM
nope, thats only half of it, check later in the book.

remember I'm responding to the image of a dog......

Book? i thought that happened in a movie :smallconfused: i know i read it online somewhere.

Lord Raziere
2011-02-28, 12:51 AM
Book? i thought that happened in a movie :smallconfused: i know i read it online somewhere.

......Watchmen was book long before it was a movie......

anyway not telling you or spelling it out, waiting for someone else to get the real joke.

Lycan 01
2011-02-28, 11:53 PM
......Watchmen was book long before it was a movie......

anyway not telling you or spelling it out, waiting for someone else to get the real joke.

Does it involve what he saw in the inkblot test, and the related backstory? :smallbiggrin:

Lord Raziere
2011-03-01, 12:06 AM
Does it involve what he saw in the inkblot test, and the related backstory? :smallbiggrin:

yes, yes it does :smallsmile: you have got the joke.

Mystic Muse
2011-03-01, 01:04 AM
......Watchmen was book long before it was a movie......

anyway not telling you or spelling it out, waiting for someone else to get the real joke.

And before that it was a Saturday morning cartoon! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w Yes, this is a joke.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-01, 06:39 AM
Guys, can we please get back on topic here?

Silverraptor
2011-03-01, 12:33 PM
Guys, can we please get back on topic here?

Running gag joke from the author.:smalltongue: Just kidding. Though she does say this alot.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-01, 12:42 PM
And before that it was a Saturday morning cartoon! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w Yes, this is a joke.

My brain just exploded:smalleek:



Back on topicness: Who here wants to bet that There is something going on between Lex and Mr scarface? Who wants to bet the mage chick they were working with has turned evil?

( no i do not know the proper names for any of Lloid's old comrads XD)

Raging Gene Ray
2011-03-02, 10:20 PM
Who wants to bet the mage chick they were working with has turned evil?


Why would she turn evil? She's probably just chug chug chuggin' along and movin' on down the line with the same old orders from General Murphy.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-03, 01:14 AM
I'm spoilering this because a)it's basically off topic even though it's related to the thread and b)I've been wanting to put this out here for some time now (I only just wrote it but the ideas have been in my head for quite a while now) and whilst I'm pretty sure I'm overthinking things here and I probably come across as some sort of batty internet stalker woman I kind of felt I had to get this rant off my chest... :smalltongue:

The full-blown, mildly creepy shebang. The contents of this spoiler will have spelling and grammatical errors in it due to length and it may cause anyone to read it to fear me forever more!
You have been warned:
Seriously guys, I ain't kidding. I just sat down and typed what amounts to a full cracked.com length article on my "thoughts" about whether or not we'll ever stop burning through threads so quickly.
Still game? Open up the spoiler then and see if you still want to attempt to read what I think or will settle for the tldr; version....
:smallwink:
Guys, can we please get back on topic here?


Running gag joke from the author.:smalltongue: Just kidding. Though she does say this alot.



Back on topicness: Who here wants to bet that There is something going on between Lex and Mr scarface? Who wants to bet the mage chick they were working with has turned evil?

( no i do not know the proper names for any of Lloid's old comrads XD)


Why would she turn evil? She's probably just chug chug chuggin' along and movin' on down the line with the same old orders from General Murphy.

[/QUOTES] :smallbiggrin:

...Yeah.
Coffee and Silverraptor have kind of hit the nail on the head here. Off-topic banter is a serious problem that *every* *single* *Murphy's Law* *thread* has had - to the extent that poor old Coffee (who is younger than I am, I refuse to indicate whether the gap is an infentisemal difference or a vast gulf, suspect what you will fellow forumites!) has alluded to this in the thread title.
I'm subscribed by email to every thread I comment as whilst my posts tend to be gargantuan these girt dirty big deposits of words are fairly widely spaced out across the forums and time itself. I'm posting again now because I got an email that told me that Raging Gene Ray had just posted and reported the exact words of his post, quote included.

I followed the link with a degree of excitement because after reading the email and giving a few moments' pause for consideration of its content I came to the conclusion that Coffee had done one of her bonus mid week updates, possibly out of a crippling sensation of guilt because she didn't manage to treat us to an update every single day of her brief break from school because she selfishly chose to fritter the time away on some 'assignment and homework' gig that some non-important employees at her school had tried to fob her off with. Well, that and the whole tending to abandoned fwuffy ickle animals. What were you thinking Coffee? :smallannoyed:
What were you thinking? [shakes head in disapproval]
...:smallbiggrin: In case I'm not being entirely clear guys, feel free to try a detect sarcasm on the paragraph above.
When the thread's first page loaded I thought I must have been away for longer than I realised just from the look of that first page, but I hadn't thought to check the most recent update in the first post. In my excitement I went straight on to the thread's final page and tapped the 'End' button on my keyboard then proceded to scroll upwards, reading as I went. My certainty that there had been an update grew as I skimmed and scrolled: Gicko, whose avatar's hair had grown back again, had mentioned Lexington, Miles and Alexis, who we left a few stips ago to return to Lloyd and co. in the present day - the setting had jumped again and the bonus update was obviously set in Kago! I started imagining what this update could be and concluded since Gicko mentioned the three apprentices but didn't seem to know how they were getting along the update must have been about Rust and/or Perry and/or Murphy. Perhaps the jump was because the character that caused Janine to have reservations about bringing Cyrus and Lucille to the church for sanctuary was now living and working in some way in Kago and the bonus strip introduced this heinous influence to us in person, interacting with an established Kago character in an unsettling way? Yep, the update was going to be a good 'un, and no mistake - whether I'd correctly predicted its content or not - and that would stop us all idly chit chatting about Watchmen! I knew more time had passed me by than I'd thought it had between checking the thread because a) we'd moved onto another page now and b)Keveak, HalfTangible, Blackjack and, I suspected but couldn't be sure, Kyubi all had shiney new avatars that were different to the ones they had when I'd left off rabidly checking the thread due to the Watchmen off-topic discussion, which was of no interest to me because Watchmen, unlike Harry Potter, isn't a franchise I know much about.

Then I finished scrolling upwards and got confused.
I was back at the Watchman discussion.
So I messed around with the scroller again.
Yep, Coffee had chimed in to ask us if we could maybe not have discussions about Watchmen on the thread she started so that she could publish her webcomic on GitP and see what people thought about it. (I don't really get why you did that Coff.)
A little more scrolling.
Oddly enough, the request for us to get back on topic hadn't been followed by three or four genuinely heartfelt apologies for straying offtopic again and another post from Coffee saying "Right. Thanks for your apologies everyone, I know you're not doing it on purpose. Maybe the update (or new information about Aequar or teaser for one of Murphy's Law's pre-planned prequels or sequels) that I'm working on right now will get everyone back on topic! :smallamused:". And the posts following that post from numerous people (which would usually include me) that all amounted to different ways of expressing: "Huzzah! Thank you Coffee :smallsmile:" weren't showing up either.
And neither was that inevitable post from Coffee with the bonus update/world lore/creature stat/future character portrait/cryptic clue that everyone was getting excited about. Not even when I scrolled through the whole page veeerrry slowly, cautiously scanning every post. That was weird I had been on a day-trip (which I enjoyed. I'm not going to be homeless in six months time like I was starting to think I would be) and Coffee genuinely hadn't found time in her day to leave a Murphy's Law laden post on my behalf while I was gone. There was just the Watchmen discussion I'd eschewed before setting off on my little road trip and then the posts I quoted above terminating in Raging Gene Ray's comment that had popped into my inbox the following night.

Then I thought about it for a little while and it slowly dawned on me that I'd assumed, indeed firmly convinced myself, Coffee had updated for no reason at all beyond recent historic precedent and a bit of wishful thinking. :smallredface:

Oops.

It's given me pause for thought though. (Does it show?) Is the whole "off-topic issue" simply because we enjoy Murphy's Law so much that we've formed a pretty strong mini-comunity while we've bonded over it to the extent that we want to talk to each other about completely unrelated subjects as we want to hear one another's views and like to "argue" amongst ourselves due to bonding over Coffee's project? Or is there a more sinister underside to it all: we are a not teeny tiny group of people who have been borderline emotionally blackmailing a student we have never met into providing us with entertainment for nothing in return but the occaisonal bit of genuinely thought provoking commentary or quite lovely piece of fan art - without ever realising we may actually be doing something somewhat damaging?
...Am I being way to dramatic in saying that or is there a grain of truth to it? If anybody's clicked the spoiler maybe we should investigate starting another (short lived) thread somewhere on the boards to discuss this "problem" which the mods can summarily lock if they object to and we can explain CI herself didn't suggest we make?

Seeing as this is thread six, Raging Gene Ray's post was number 338 and of these 338 posts this sixth thread has had 5 of them were comic updates. That's not a criticism of CoffeeIncluded's update schedule, it's an observation about the nature of these six threads. I'm wondering if it's not time a Murphy's Law Banter thread was launched along a similar vein to the discussion/plotting thread for Avatar Battle Royale. Murphy's Law isn't ABR, and I don't think it's quite reached that level of forum activity yet, but it's had 100 comics over six threads - a cursory glance at the sticky thread on starting a thread in the Fancomics Forum suggests to me that the original idea behind the Fancomics forum was that almost every thread within this subforum would be formatted so that 90% of the thread's post count would be the OP saying "I updated TitleofMyFancomic, hope you like it playground!" and a link to or embedded image of the update itself, with a running commentary on the update from the author below the update itself. The other ten percent would be comments from readers and would probably average out at three or four comments per update - if that (my percentagey maths to comment rate ratio sounds a little dodgey, doesn't it? Math is my dump stat. I'm sorry. I am ashamed of this fact, so don't feel you need to chastise me about it.) Murphy's Law is an example of a perfectly acceptable (usually!) and very successful fancomic thread (or rather, series of thread) that strays very far away from that original concept format.
The Summation:
Tldr; Coffee seems to worry a lot that we all go off topic too much (I'm doing it right now - I just did it for about a short essay's word count and I'm still chug chugging along with it) I'm beginning to fret that it's actually something that she might be devoting more of her time than she needs to worrying about: Coffee always seems very keen on obeying forum protecol and getting a warning from the mods about straying from the thread's topic. I doubt that that's a tendency towards "Vigelnate modding" on Coffee's part. I'm concerned that somewhere in the back of her mind there's a rather real fear that the project that's such a huge outlet for her and that she knows so many people she's grown to like over a distance adore will be locked down like the fanservice threads she and a lot of the rest of us used to participate in (not me - I signed up briefly after the mass lock-down, I'm just quite aware of it because I skimmed through some of the crackpairing threads when I was reading Murphy's Law in parallel to checking for OotS updates and seeing what other people had to say about the comic before I actually signed up about when Tarquin appeared in OotS and then eventually stopped being a "ghost in the playground" some months afterwards. I'm a lurker. It's why I knew who Serrin's half goblin friend was when she appeared in the comic...well, that and I read TVtropes pages for series/franchises I follow.) If this is something that is a consistent and significant concern for CoffeeIncluded (Coffee: I feel like I'm having an unwanted "intervention" about you behind-your-back-in-front-of-your-face here, sorry about that :smalltongue:) then it's something that I really don't want on my conscience even though I know I probably will never ever meet Miss Caroline Kramer in the offline world. I realise this is "only an internet forum" and nobody here is anybody else's responsibility, but through this comic and these threads I have started to feel like I "know" Coffee and a lot of the other regular posters and I do feel somewhat responsible for how the things I say and do in cyberspace effect living and breathing offline individuals in their day to day lives. The internet's a weird thing to my mind. :smalleek:

...OK. I will edit this post tomorrow to add my thoughts on RGR's and Gicko's legitimately on topic comments that precede this post, but right now I'm tired and need to go to sleep. I actually created a .txt file to write up the spoilered content above in case my computer crashed before I could hit "Submit Reply". I think the fact that I'm not feeling too well right now is the reason I bit the bullet and wrote this post, a bit like posting whilst drunk I have a feeling I'll regret posting this in the morning! (I apologise again for being so off-topic guys. I am such a hypocrite sometimes.) Will edit out this paragraph tomorrow morning.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-03, 04:17 PM
Thank you, Eleanor. Seriously. I can only do a brief response, since I have a math test to study for tomorrow.

I don't think that you guys are emotionally blackmailing me. In fact, I understand the banter; I go off on tangents all the time. The thing is that I'd like to stay a little on topic, because Eleanor's right. I'm very keen on obeying forum protocol because I don't exactly want this comic locked or for anybody to get in trouble. I don't think you'll go that far, but...You know.

But don't worry; I'm not devoting too much time to this. Remember, I'm a high school senior who's already been accepted into college. I've been able to maintain an A average, with four AP classes, throughout this comic. I've accelerated the updates simply because I actually do have more time on my hands, and I adore this series and the world I created, and I want to share it with you guys.

I know I'm rambling, so I'm going to cut it off for now. Let me just say thank you, and there WILL be an update tomorrow! I'm only going to be able to stick to the once-a-week updates until...About two weeks from now because two things are going to be eating up a lot of my spare time: Studying for a science competition, and Pokemon White. :smallbiggrin:

Lix Lorn
2011-03-03, 05:21 PM
You also have a fic to keep updating. :smalltongue:

Even if you don't like the ontopicness of this forum, this forum is a wonderful lovely place, and we'all are guests here. Let's be keeping to the Murphy's Law conversation, mmkaay?

RANDOM OFF THE WALL THEORY TO CREATE CONVERSATION

What would happen if (team member) was actually a shapeshifter?

Lemonus
2011-03-03, 05:22 PM
You also have a fic to keep updating. :smalltongue:

Even if you don't like the ontopicness of this forum, this forum is a wonderful lovely place, and we'all are guests here. Let's be keeping to the Murphy's Law conversation, mmkaay?

RANDOM OFF THE WALL THEORY TO CREATE CONVERSATION

What would happen if (team member) was actually a shapeshifter?

Well Tinder is a shapeshifter, isn't he?

Dusk Eclipse
2011-03-03, 05:28 PM
You also have a fic to keep updating. :smalltongue:

Even if you don't like the ontopicness of this forum, this forum is a wonderful lovely place, and we'all are guests here. Let's be keeping to the Murphy's Law conversation, mmkaay?

RANDOM OFF THE WALL THEORY TO CREATE CONVERSATION

What would happen if (team member) was actually a shapeshifter?

Technically Tinder is a shapeshifter, considering that he is a dragon that parades in human-form.

Edit::smallannoyed: Hey I am supposed to be the ninja.... darn it..even to the formatting
:smalltongue:

Mystic Muse
2011-03-03, 05:36 PM
What would happen if (team member) was actually a shapeshifter?

Janine might actually be able to get with Lloyd?

Lix Lorn
2011-03-03, 05:42 PM
I meant shapeshifter like changeling. But I like Kyuubi's answer. :smalltongue:

HalfTangible
2011-03-03, 07:51 PM
I meant shapeshifter like changeling. But I like Kyuubi's answer. :smalltongue:

Radic's a shapeshifter, too. :smalltongue:

And technically becoming much bigger is a change in shape, so Janine is a shapeshifter too.

Strife Warzeal
2011-03-03, 09:54 PM
Janine might actually be able to get with Lloyd?

It is possible for her to get with Lloyd assuming he is not strictly homosexual. Maybe if she changed a bit he would like her more.

At least how I see it, Lloyd might be like Lucas and Cadugan in Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic link for understanding (http://yafgc.net/?id=1420) The first four or so panels are the pertinent ones.
Simple info if you don't read that web comic:
Lucas: Baron, and in a relationship with the half-elf Cadugan.
The Ghost: Former Baron (and I can't remember his name) and his family is under a curse which does something along the lines of kills the person's wife (or something along those lines). And to not like carrots too.
And Cadugan: Male Half-elf in a relationship with Lucas. Just my thoughts on that.



RANDOM OFF THE WALL THEORY TO CREATE CONVERSATION

What would happen if (team member) was actually a shapeshifter?

Radic: Could go male to avoid the advances of Matt.
Matt: Not really sure, Maybe use it to escape law enforcement. I mean he did start out this comic clearly as a thief type.
Janine: Like Kyuubi said, she might go male (once Team Gale knows about Lloyd's sexual orientation) to attract his attention. But then there is what I said above that might mean she could get his attention as a female.
Tinder: I don't really know too much about how he thinks.
Lloyd: He could enter a more "traditional" relationship with Lexi but, as they are already together, they probably don't care too much about that.
Serrin: God (or Coffee) knows what goes on in her head to even guess how that might affect (or is it effect) how she acts.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-03, 10:01 PM
We're getting off topic...:smalltongue:

HalfTangible
2011-03-03, 10:14 PM
We're getting off topic...:smalltongue:

It's still about the characters in the comic :smallannoyed: it's on topic.

Asta Kask
2011-03-04, 05:17 AM
It is possible for her to get with Lloyd assuming he is not strictly homosexual. Maybe if she changed a bit he would like her more.

She could get one of them false beards.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-04, 07:05 AM
She could get one of them false beards.
...
Someone arty draw this. Other than Coffee, she's busy. xD

Strife Warzeal
2011-03-04, 07:43 AM
She could get one of them false beards.

I meant emotionally/mentally, though now that you mention it that sounds great.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-04, 08:30 AM
RANDOM OFF THE WALL THEORY TO CREATE CONVERSATION

What would happen if (team member) was actually a shapeshifter?


Technically Tinder is a shapeshifter, considering that he is a dragon that parades in human-form.

Edit::smallannoyed: Hey I am supposed to be the ninja.... darn it..even to the formatting
:smalltongue:

I would have ninja'd you too Dusk except a)I'm 100% too slow to ninja folk and b)no, that's about it. What I'm trying to say was that when I read Lix's theory that was what popped up first, along with Radic and Janine, but HalfTangible ninja'd me on them by about a day so....


Janine might actually be able to get with Lloyd?

Initially humourous suggestion. :smallbiggrin:
When you think about it a little more though that joke would basically mean a horrible abuse of Lloyd that I'm fairly confident that Janine would never actually stoop to no matter how desperate she is to be with him. If I'm wrong there then I've gravely overestimated her character. (From things Coffee said during the love potion arc I doubt I have)


It is possible for her to get with Lloyd assuming he is not strictly homosexual. Maybe if she changed a bit he would like her more.

At least how I see it, Lloyd might be like Lucas and Cadugan in Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic link for understanding (http://yafgc.net/?id=1420) The first four or so panels are the pertinent ones.
Simple info if you don't read that web comic:
Lucas: Baron, and in a relationship with the half-elf Cadugan.
The Ghost: Former Baron (and I can't remember his name) and his family is under a curse which does something along the lines of kills the person's wife (or something along those lines). And to not like carrots too.
And Cadugan: Male Half-elf in a relationship with Lucas. Just my thoughts on that.

You've summed up my feelings on Janine managing to date Lloyd pretty succinctly based on the strip itself. Coffee's commentary suggests to me that it's not something we're going to see though and Lexington's essentially going to be the only love interest Lloyd seriously considers over the strip's run, with the outside possibility that complications may arise with someother male character somewhere along the line. Basically though I suspect Janine's very much clinging to false hope with Lloyd and I'm not sure Lloyd-is-gay or otherwise Lloyd and Janine eventually hooking up would have ever really felt 'satisfying' to me due to the unhealthiness of Janine's attitude about it at the moment. I they were to hook up it would have to be written very carefully. This said I genuinely hope that before the comic's over Janine finds somebody to date who will genuinely love her for who she is and who she genuinely loves back. Generally I'm pretty anti "pair the spares" in fiction but Janine seems to desperately long for romantic company and validation to such an extent that she's an exception because I feel hooking up with someone properly at some point is what she needs to find hapiness, even if that relationship eventually broke down.
On an off topic note (sorry guys):
Yay another YAFGC reader! I basically found OotS, and therefore Murphy's Law thanks to that April Fools comic YAFGC ran one year (which I a)didn't find particularly funny and b)don't think in retrospect captures the heart of OotS too well). Still reading it daily and would reccomend it to the folks here.





Radic: Could go male to avoid the advances of Matt.
I don't want to sound like some kind of chauvinist who somehow missed the whole feminist movement here but... on some level I think Radic likes the way Matt overdoes his advances. I'm not saying she'd like that if any guy tried to behave like that towards her but I think Radic does actually "like like" Matt. She just happens to be very aware how not perfect he is at the same time.
Matt: Not really sure, Maybe use it to escape law enforcement. I mean he did start out this comic clearly as a thief type.
Now Matt I could see using shape changing for a Radic dating related reason. I'm not saying he'd do something awful like shift into the form of another person she's said she would like to schtup àla Uther of the Arthurian legends, I don't think there's a member of Team Gale that would exploit shape shifting in that way. Some of them may vaguely consider it, none of them would go all the way with it. But I can see Matt using shape-shifting-esque scrolls or potions to make himself look more "buff" or something to try to impress Radic. Nothing that would involve him tricking her into believing he was somebody else and having her way with her but something that he thought would make Radic view him as a more attractive person.
Janine: Like Kyuubi said, she might go male (once Team Gale knows about Lloyd's sexual orientation) to attract his attention. But then there is what I said above that might mean she could get his attention as a female.
I think the only way a "Janine turns male to get Lloyd to like her" story might work would be if she thought that was a good idea, did it and then came to the conclusion that she didn't want to be with Lloyd as another person, "chickened out" and then went back to persuing him in her true form. That scenario would play out roughly the same on Janine's side of things if she went into it with a shape shifted form that was very obviously still her and deliberately so, just a male her. I think.
Tinder: I don't really know too much about how he thinks.
I like pretend that I do but offhand the only way I can think of him exploiting an "any kind of shape shifting you want" situation would be to enable himself to adopt a more convincing human form so he could blend in with Team Gale related business. Tinder usually wanders around in a form that isn't his own with the active intent to decieve others and he's perfectly comfortable with that. Stands to reason he'd take up an offer to get a more convincing human form as long as a)the rest of Team Gale would still know he was Tinder b)the deal was a no-strings-attached thing and c)he still had the option to return to dragon form just as easily as he can at the moment.
Lloyd: He could enter a more "traditional" relationship with Lexi but, as they are already together, they probably don't care too much about that.
Yeah. The thought may or may not cross his mind for "experimentation" reasons but ultimately I think that Lloyd's pretty comfortable with his own sexuality and grew up in a fantasy setting that means that shapeshifting for a more "traditional" relationship with his partner would feel like a much odder thing to do as a result of societal pressure than it would if Lloyd originated from some real world settings. Kago is a horrible horrible place in a lot of ways, but one thing it has going for it is that on the surface of it is (from what little we've seen) it's genuinely accepting of the LGBTA community.
Serrin: God (or Coffee) knows what goes on in her head to even guess how that might affect (or is it effect) how she acts.
Agree. I can't come up with anything for Serrin.

Whee, that was fun.
And erm, re:my last post? (don't worry, spoilered content is much briefer than it was last time around)
Open apology time: I want it to be clear that I wouldn't ever accuse anyone here of consciously "emotionally blackmailing" Coffee. It's obvious even to an outsider that we all love this thread, especially Coffee. She's tough enough to put up with us. :smalltongue:
I'm quite strange and sometimes get a little too involved in my own theories. I basically made that post for my own benefit above anyone elses.
I do still believe that my Murphy's Law Banter Thread suggestion was a valid one to keep in mind should the mods ever get fed up enough with us going "off topic" to want to talk to us about it though.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-04, 01:41 PM
Serrin: God (or Coffee) knows what goes on in her head to even guess how that might affect (or is it effect) how she acts.

If Coffee knows, Silver knows.:smalltongue:

Update today! In like, 5-7 hours.:smallfrown:

Marnath
2011-03-04, 01:46 PM
If Coffee knows, Silver knows.:smalltongue:

Update today! In like, Whenever she gets to it, and I'll wait patiently.:smallfrown:

Fixed it for you. :smallwink:

Lix Lorn
2011-03-04, 02:13 PM
Janine might actually be able to get with Lloyd?


Initially humourous suggestion. :smallbiggrin:
When you think about it a little more though that joke would basically mean a horrible abuse of Lloyd that I'm fairly confident that Janine would never actually stoop to no matter how desperate she is to be with him. If I'm wrong there then I've gravely overestimated her character. (From things Coffee said during the love potion arc I doubt I have)
I think Kyuubi was thinking that Janine could turn male, rather than turn into Lexi or someone.

Mystic Muse
2011-03-04, 05:39 PM
I think Kyuubi was thinking that Janine could turn male, rather than turn into Lexi or someone.

Exactly. Maybe she'd turn into the guy from the old spice commercial?

Anybody in the mood to make a spoof of that?

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-04, 07:01 PM
Janine would not trick Lloyd. She's seducing him, but she's not going to pretend to be a guy or Lexi or anything.

Anywho! The moment we've all been waiting for!

#120: A Cleric By Any Other Name
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/AClericByAnyOtherName.png

Lycan 01
2011-03-04, 07:06 PM
Hmmmmm. This presents quite a conundrum. His story sounds legit, but can she really allow herself to let some random Cleric take these two innocent children?

Jade Dragon
2011-03-04, 07:08 PM
Hmmmmm. This presents quite a conundrum. His story sounds legit, but can she really allow herself to let some random Cleric take these two innocent children?

The cleric's not evil.

Devmaar
2011-03-04, 07:13 PM
The cleric's not evil.

How do you know? Janine should get Lloyd out there, although even if he does detect not evil, that's no guarantee he's good for their welfare, at least it's a start.

Mystic Muse
2011-03-04, 07:15 PM
How do you know? Janine should get Lloyd out there, although even if he does detect not evil, that's no guarantee he's good for their welfare, at least it's a start.

Even then, there are plenty of ways to prevent detect evil from detecting whether you're evil or not.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-04, 07:23 PM
Even then, there are plenty of ways to prevent detect evil from detecting whether you're evil or not.

That shows up as "no reading" rather than "not evil".

Lix Lorn
2011-03-04, 07:25 PM
Suspicious cleric is suspicious... :smallconfused:

Lord Raziere
2011-03-04, 07:31 PM
hmmmmm.....

is taking care of homeless children....

suddenly cleric shows up, claims their parents are assassinated and that he needs to take them away immediately.

Yea, I wouldn't trust him. It sounds like he was the assassin, he is in disguise and he is going to kill them once she is far enough away.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-04, 07:33 PM
hmmmmm.....

is taking care of homeless children....

suddenly cleric shows up, claims their parents are assassinated and that he needs to take them away immediately.

Yea, I wouldn't trust him. It sounds like he was the assassin, he is in disguise and he is going to kill them once she is far enough away.

Why would an assassin care about two homeless children? And none of that "destined to" stuff.

Herpestidae
2011-03-04, 07:37 PM
Why would an assassin care about two homeless children? And none of that "destined to" stuff.

Evil Overlord List. Families of assassinated people tend to chuck spanners in all of your machines.

Lycan 01
2011-03-04, 07:50 PM
Plus, Janine has issues with Clerics and kids, remember? :smallconfused:

Lord Raziere
2011-03-04, 07:50 PM
Why would an assassin care about two homeless children? And none of that "destined to" stuff.

Herpests right. destined to indeed.

cause sooner or alter they start asking the question "who're m'parents?" "where'd I come from?" "why am I an erphun?" that eventually leads thme to to their homeland which leads them to the overlord which leads to the Truth and leads to overthrowing.

that and in medieval times, blood was very important. to them blood = divine right to rule. no blood left, no divine right, vacuum for some else to claim a new divine right under their blood and establish a new dynasty. meaning the long lost prince thing is a little more threatening than you think, cause while they probably aren't that bad or anything, people say like......Littlefinger....who could take advantage of that, use them and their divine right as a puppet for their own rule.

so yeah. thats why he would care.

Devmaar
2011-03-04, 08:39 PM
Why would an assassin care about two homeless children? And none of that "destined to" stuff.

Because someone paid him to eliminate the whole family? Assassins don't kill because they have ulterior motives, they kill because someone else has ulterior motives. Without knowing who hired the assassin we can't know their motives so we have no idea how they're related to those kids dying. Just because we haven't seen the reason doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-04, 08:59 PM
hmmmmm.....

is taking care of homeless children....

suddenly cleric shows up, claims their parents are assassinated and that he needs to take them away immediately.

Yea, I wouldn't trust him. It sounds like he was the assassin, he is in disguise and he is going to kill them once she is far enough away.


Been done too many times i think. From what i know of coffie, she likes to avoid, bend, and twist Tropes as much as possible.

HalfTangible
2011-03-05, 01:15 AM
The cleric's not evil.

Says who?

RdMarquis
2011-03-05, 01:37 AM
Maybe he wants to keep the kids under his thumb instead of killing them. If their parents were assassinated, they might have held political power, which Cyrus and Lucille are set to inherit. As their guardian, the cleric would be able to gain their trust and influence how they rule as adults.

Marnath
2011-03-05, 01:39 AM
You know, he could genuinely be who he says he is too. :smallwink:

Devmaar
2011-03-05, 06:53 AM
You know, he could genuinely be who he says he is too. :smallwink:

Yes but the consequences of believing he is when he isn't are much worse than the consequences of believing he isn't when he is.

Asta Kask
2011-03-05, 07:13 AM
The cleric's not evil.

How d'you know? Does Janine know?

Themrys
2011-03-05, 07:34 AM
Yes but the consequences of believing he is when he isn't are much worse than the consequences of believing he isn't when he is.

Exactly. Even if she wakes the children up and asks them whether they know this guy, there's still the chance he pretended to be a friend of the family while secretly planning to kill off the parents and get his hands on the orphans.

We'll see.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-05, 08:37 AM
I accept that there could be some sort of truly grim reality behind this new cleric but as far as my own immediate reaction to the update goes?

I may be jumping the gun here, but I think Janine may have just found the potential "someone" I was hoping for her to find...:smallamused:
Think we're a little too early in the storyline for anything big to come of it yet though so...Meh. This could be the beginings of a genuine breakthrough for Janine though... (This is weird, because I'm hoping for this and I'm usually a very anti-romance type person. I must be going soft or something :smalleek:)

Also: Lix? Someone, somewhere might just have heard your demand for a false bearded Radic image... but who am I to say? [/OMINOUS]

HalfTangible
2011-03-05, 11:01 AM
You know, he could genuinely be who he says he is too. :smallwink:

Yeah, but then speculation is boooooooring

Lix Lorn
2011-03-05, 04:28 PM
Also: Lix? Someone, somewhere might just have heard your demand for a false bearded Radic image... but who am I to say? [/OMINOUS]
Ooooh, I wonder who? <3

Lord Raziere
2011-03-05, 05:04 PM
Been done too many times i think. From what i know of coffie, she likes to avoid, bend, and twist Tropes as much as possible.

guy, it ain't about the tropes, its about the story, to think that a writer will do that just because of the trope thing is kinda foolish in my opinion.

that and when you become used to surprising people, wouldn't the biggest surprise at some point be not to surprise them?

Raging Gene Ray
2011-03-05, 06:58 PM
Exactly. Even if she wakes the children up and asks them whether they know this guy, there's still the chance he pretended to be a friend of the family while secretly planning to kill off the parents and get his hands on the orphans.

We'll see.

What the hell?

Some homeless, starving kids appear. "They're probably faking as part of a con."

A cleric offers to take them in. "He's probably the one who orphaned them in the first place and he's going to kill them!"

The first one, I could understand...but the second one just comes out of left field. Yes, it's unlikely that an old friend just happened to come by. It's just as unlikely that an assassin who killed their parents would just happen by.

It's like you're exploiting the limits of probability to think of horrible things that could happen.

Seriously, what is there to suggest that the cleric isn't just a way to give some sort of happy ending to this part of the story and let Janine carry on the rest of the plot?

I'm most interested in the fact he mentioned a Fire Temple. More background on the religions of Aquear...but what is it? Is he really a druid and "cleric" is just a name denoting his place in a hierarchy? Is there any deity associated with this temple or just the abstract concept of "Fire" and "Light" in general? Are there temples for other elements that keep in contact with one another?

HalfTangible
2011-03-05, 08:00 PM
What the hell?

Some homeless, starving kids appear. "They're probably faking as part of a con."

A cleric offers to take them in. "He's probably the one who orphaned them in the first place and he's going to kill them!"

The first one, I could understand...but the second one just comes out of left field. Yes, it's unlikely that an old friend just happened to come by. It's just as unlikely that an assassin who killed their parents would just happen by.

It's like you're exploiting the limits of probability to think of horrible things that could happen.

Seriously, what is there to suggest that the cleric isn't just a way to give some sort of happy ending to this part of the story and let Janine carry on the rest of the plot?

I'm most interested in the fact he mentioned a Fire Temple. More background on the religions of Aquear...but what is it? Is he really a druid and "cleric" is just a name denoting his place in a hierarchy? Is there any deity associated with this temple or just the abstract concept of "Fire" and "Light" in general? Are there temples for other elements that keep in contact with one another?

There were four elementals involved in the story about the creation of the world. They helped make Salblaze and the other dragon. One of them was a fire elemental.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-05, 09:28 PM
Have I really made you guys that paranoid? :smalltongue:

He's the cleric of one of the for Elemental Gods who helped make the world.

blackjack217
2011-03-05, 09:41 PM
Have I really made you guys that paranoid? :smalltongue:

He's the cleric of one of the for Elemental Gods who helped make the world.

I think we outsmarted ourselves mostly.

Marnath
2011-03-05, 11:49 PM
I think we outsmarted ourselves mostly.

Nothing as exciting as thinking your way into a corner, eh? :smallwink:

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-06, 01:38 AM
It's just not a decent world without elemental gods IMO :P

Themrys
2011-03-06, 08:46 AM
The first one, I could understand...but the second one just comes out of left field. Yes, it's unlikely that an old friend just happened to come by. It's just as unlikely that an assassin who killed their parents would just happen by.

It's like you're exploiting the limits of probability to think of horrible things that could happen.

Seriously, what is there to suggest that the cleric isn't just a way to give some sort of happy ending to this part of the story and let Janine carry on the rest of the plot?


Well, isn't it a remarkable coincidence that an old friend of the children's family should just happen to be there and never have noticed them until now, that they are already being taken care of?

If you ever read "A Series of Unfortunate Events" you'll understand why I suspect that guy.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-06, 10:08 AM
Have I really made you guys that paranoid? :smalltongue:

He's the cleric of one of the for Elemental Gods who helped make the world.

Aw man. Does this mean my pet theory of "new cleric is an (eventual) romantic interest/foil for Janine" is out? ...No wait - don't tell me. I want to watch and find out!

...I am very open to gentle hints about how wrong I am with that guess.


Well, isn't it a remarkable coincidence that an old friend of the children's family should just happen to be there and never have noticed them until now, that they are already being taken care of?

If you ever read "A Series of Unfortunate Events" you'll understand why I suspect that guy.

In fairness to Coffee/the story, I thought this was rather a neat coincidence too (as in, a little too tidy) but upon re-reading my take on the situation is as follows: the reason old family friend has been reunited with the twins is that he was in the area in the first place because he was actively searching them having heard of their parents' fate and was able to take an educated guess as to their whereabouts sure it's a little convenient story-wise that he only actually found them after he'd stopped looking and once Janine appeared on the scene, but once you examine the whole picture the situation is hardly entirely untrue to life. (Not that anyone actually said it was, I'm jus' sayin'...)
My gut feeling is that this guy is pretty much legit.
...there again that was essentially what I thought about Rust until the strip where it became abundantly and undeniably clear that he was bad news, so take from that what you will!

Themrys
2011-03-06, 10:51 AM
Well, of course something like this could happen in real life. Coincidences happen, and as you pointed out, he has a reason to be where he is.
However, since this is a work of fiction, and such coincidences often turn out to be traps in fiction, I am paranoid about that stranger.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-06, 11:03 AM
Well, of course something like this could happen in real life. Coincidences happen, and as you pointed out, he has a reason to be where he is.
However, since this is a work of fiction, and such coincidences often turn out to be traps in fiction, I am paranoid about that stranger.

Yep, that's what fiction and suspense are all about, doing something with very little chance of happening in real life just to catch you off guard.
Of course, it's been used so many times that we're caught off guard if they do the mundane thing rather than the "unexpected" thing.:smalltongue:

Starbuck_II
2011-03-06, 11:23 AM
That scene where she gave food to the orphans was really "awww".

Asta Kask
2011-03-06, 04:22 PM
Have I really made you guys that paranoid? :smalltongue:

It's not paranoia when everyone's actually after you.

blackjack217
2011-03-06, 05:15 PM
It's not paranoia when everyone's actually after you.

or when someone takes favored enemy: paranoids.

Silverraptor
2011-03-06, 05:56 PM
I normally show up when the paranoia is starting to drop low. Someone needs to freak everyone out.:smallamused:

Mystic Muse
2011-03-06, 06:44 PM
Hey, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon waiting to eat my face.

Qwertystop
2011-03-06, 07:39 PM
Hey, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon waiting to eat my face.

It does, however, mean people are less likely to believe you when you tell them about it.

Anyway, there isn't an invisible demon. He's just really good at disguising himself. He's probably your monitor's power button.

Silverberry
2011-03-08, 06:58 PM
Hi, and sorry if I'm interrupting a discussion. :)

I've only been lurking for a short while around here but decided to step out of the shadows anyway, and I might have a little gift for CoffeeIncluded (if you like ist, that is). It is something that I happened to make when the urge to draw hit me after I finished your comic, and it's my interpretation of one of my favourite Characters.
(I personally think it's obvious, but just in case - it's supposed to be Radic. It may look unfinished because I just suck at drawing some things, but I hope you like it anyway.)

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/radic1082.jpg

Phew. That done, I have to say that you really got me impressed. I always admire people who can keep such a project going, and when I found out your age I was totally baffled that you can already pull something like this off so well. That may be because I'm prejudiced, but oh well...

Anyway, your comic is super-fun to read, and I wasn't thrilled when I had to stop reading because other matters called. I think I may even like it more than OOTS (I hope that wasn't blasphemy now. If some OOTS fanatic reads this, please don't go all Smite Evil on me).

Erm... yeah. Looking forward to your next updates. :)

Okay. Finished with interrupting. You can go on...

blackjack217
2011-03-08, 07:04 PM
link be broken.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-08, 07:06 PM
Yeah, the link's broken. :smalltongue: But thank you so much!

Silverberry
2011-03-08, 07:39 PM
Eh, sorry for the link. Does it work now?

And your welcome. :)

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-08, 07:47 PM
Eh, sorry for the link. Does it work now?

And your welcome. :)

*Insert massive squee here*

Silverberry
2011-03-08, 08:02 PM
lol - I hope that means I managed to repair it. :) I mean, you are not squeeing in pain, are you?

blackjack217
2011-03-08, 08:06 PM
yes you did.

Timeless Error
2011-03-08, 08:08 PM
Hi everyone,

I haven't posted in this thread (or any of its predecessors) yet, but I've been following and enjoying Murphy's Law for quite some time now and I look forward to every update. Keep up the good work, Coffee! :smallsmile:

*Goes back to lurking*

@V: I cracked up. :smallbiggrin:

Jade Dragon
2011-03-08, 08:12 PM
Hi everyone,

I haven't posted in this thread (or any of its predecessors) yet, but I've been following and enjoying Murphy's Law for quite some time now and I look forward to every update. Keep up the good work, Coffee! :smallsmile:

*Goes back to the silly message board games section to paint people green*

Fixed that for you.:smallwink: And remember, I will help you.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-08, 08:18 PM
It's a squeal of happiness. I love it.

Okay, update Friday, but I may not be able to update next week, because I have a science competition upstate on Friday and Saturday. If I do update, it will be Thursday, Sunday, or Monday.

Marnath
2011-03-09, 01:33 AM
I like your style, Silverberry. It'd be nice to see if you decided to do the others too.:smallwink:




It's a squeal of happiness. I love it.

Okay, update Friday, but I may not be able to update next week, because I have a science competition upstate on Friday and Saturday. If I do update, it will be Thursday, Sunday, or Monday.

Good luck! :smallbiggrin:

CWater
2011-03-09, 06:04 AM
Hi, and sorry if I'm interrupting a discussion. :)

I've only been lurking for a short while around here but decided to step out of the shadows anyway, and I might have a little gift for CoffeeIncluded (if you like ist, that is). It is something that I happened to make when the urge to draw hit me after I finished your comic, and it's my interpretation of one of my favourite Characters.
(I personally think it's obvious, but just in case - it's supposed to be Radic. It may look unfinished because I just suck at drawing some things, but I hope you like it anyway.)

[IMG]*snip*

Phew. That done, I have to say that you really got me impressed. I always admire people who can keep such a project going, and when I found out your age I was totally baffled that you can already pull something like this off so well. That may be because I'm prejudiced, but oh well...

Anyway, your comic is super-fun to read, and I wasn't thrilled when I had to stop reading because other matters called. I think I may even like it more than OOTS (I hope that wasn't blasphemy now. If some OOTS fanatic reads this, please don't go all Smite Evil on me).

Erm... yeah. Looking forward to your next updates. :)

Okay. Finished with interrupting. You can go on...

...:smalleek: That is awesome...:smallcool:
To be able to draw like that...

Chilingsworth
2011-03-09, 07:22 AM
I like your style, Silverberry. It'd be nice to see if you decided to do the others too.:smallwink:





Good luck! :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, and if you do, maybe Coffee can put them into the first post so everyone can see them?

On the science competition, Good Luck! Hope you encounter something you can incorporate into the comic!

leakingpen
2011-03-09, 09:11 AM
OOOO, like knowledge bowl, or science fair where you present a project?

Silverberry
2011-03-09, 03:38 PM
Thank you all so much. :)
And since I'm being encouraged, I'm trying to draw a Serrin now. :smallbiggrin:

Coffee, good luck with the science competition!

Silverraptor
2011-03-09, 04:18 PM
Thank you all so much. :)
And since I'm being encouraged, I'm trying to draw a Serrin now. :smallbiggrin:

Coffee, good luck with the science competition!

Do it!

DO IIIIIITTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!

Silverberry
2011-03-09, 06:28 PM
I'm afraid I'll mess it up if I'm scribbling around on it any further, so...

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/serrin1116.jpg

Marnath
2011-03-09, 06:35 PM
I'm afraid I'll mess it up if I'm scribbling around on it any further, so...

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/serrin1116.jpg

Heh, she looks like trouble, all right. It's the gleam in her eye that gives it away. :smallsmile:

Lix Lorn
2011-03-09, 06:40 PM
...
I cannot be more jealous. You RULE.

Silverberry
2011-03-09, 06:45 PM
...
I cannot be more jealous. You RULE.

And you're making me happy. :smallredface: Thank you.

I'm glad she looks like trouble. :smallcool:
Tells me I did something incredibly right. ;)

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-09, 06:51 PM
Eeeee! I love this I love this I love this!

...Would it be too rude for me to ask you to do the other characters? (Matt's blue streaks are actually his bangs, tied up with a kind of lockpick and dyed blue.)

Silverberry
2011-03-09, 07:04 PM
I think I'd have done it anyway. :smallredface:
Though I won't be as quick as with these two, since I'm not completely sure yet what I think the others would look like.

But the next one - when I have made up my mind - will be either Janine or Lloyd, methinks.

And I'm glad you seem to like it. :smallbiggrin:
Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou.

Silverraptor
2011-03-09, 07:14 PM
I'm afraid I'll mess it up if I'm scribbling around on it any further, so...

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/serrin1116.jpg

Absolutly love it!:smallbiggrin:

Lemonus
2011-03-09, 11:29 PM
I'm afraid I'll mess it up if I'm scribbling around on it any further, so...

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/serrin1116.jpg

Th-that's amazing. You rock!

Jade Dragon
2011-03-10, 12:54 AM
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/radic1082.jpg


http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/serrin1116.jpg
These are both great! And you have single-handedly showed me why Matt's attracted to Radic, she's beautiful!

blackjack217
2011-03-10, 01:16 AM
Eeeee! I love this I love this I love this!

...Would it be too rude for me to ask you to do the other characters? (Matt's blue streaks are actually his bangs, tied up with a kind of lockpick and dyed blue.)

A decorative lock-pick? Well that could be useful if they were ever imprisoned...

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-10, 08:34 AM
I think I'd have done it anyway. :smallredface:
Though I won't be as quick as with these two, since I'm not completely sure yet what I think the others would look like.

But the next one - when I have made up my mind - will be either Janine or Lloyd, methinks.

And I'm glad you seem to like it. :smallbiggrin:
Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou.

Both your fanart pieces are lovely and very interesting. There's an obvious style to both of them that's not quite real enough for realism and not quite exaggerated enough for animé/manga which I think strikes a nice balance and makes it more unique than a straight forward try at either style. I don't know if that's entirely deliberate or something of an artistic compromise but it works well either way!

As far as drawing the others goes I know what you mean about 'not knowing what they look like' the characters would all obviously be distinct but it can be hard to put together imaginary faces and we don't have a lot of clues about what they'd look like in the comic itself beyond how they're recieved by other characters and their ethnicities, which aren't taken directly from real world ethnicities in the first place and would have a lot of wriggle room left anyway!

I have drawn Lloyd and Janine with specifically different faces and had feedback on them from Coffee though. For your reference this first draft (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/murphyslawpagethreeforexportfirsttry-1.jpg) clashed with Coffee's vision of them but the second draft (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/murphyslawpagethreeforexportsecondtry.jpg)was better recieved. In fairness to Coffee, Janine looks ridiculous in the close up in the first draft - her nose is far too big, her eyes too tiny and her whole face just unbalanced (this was because it's too reliant on my loose base sketch which captured the emotion I wanted really nicely but I lost the expression somewhere in the inking and was just left with the hugely exaggerated features) so she was right to call me out on it there, artistically speaking. I think the main problems with Lloyd though were a difference in interpretation of the character more than the artwork itself: she said his hair looked scruffier than it should do and she thinks of him as having more typically Korean features than the more Chinese/Japanese (I modeled him on a couple of different action film actors, both Chinese and Japanese hoping he'd come out looking very generically 'Asian') I gave him. The art wasn't exactly perfect either but I don't think the second draft art's a whole lot better, just more 'Lloyd' perhaps.
I'm telling you this to give you inspiration, not to try and restrict your efforts, by the way!

Also, for anyone who's interested, it's obviously fanart season because I'm about 60% finished with a new fanart project that held my interest more than the fourth installment of my cover version of the strip I linked above. No idea when I'll get round to finishing it though, sadly and I can't compete with Silverberry in terms of shading! (I may not bother shading this project at all just so that I can get it to a stage where I can show it to people sooner.)

Silverberry
2011-03-10, 04:21 PM
... Wow. Thank you so much for this great, elaborate post, Eleanor.

I think we're on the same page concerning thinking up appearances for characters. I mean, they are stick figures - there are, like, six million ways to interpret each of them. :)
Okay, that also makes it interesting, even although there's just no way of drawing characters exactly the way they are actually supposed to look like, no matter how detailed Coffee's descriptions may be, because everyone envisions them a little different.
But hey, that's why we're calling these things "fanart" and not "identikit pictures".

Even so, I'm afraid you unwittingly managed to throw me a little off balance here. I sorta, maybe, somehow drew a little sketch today; and instead of just going ahead and draw my next picture based on it, I now wonder whether it might be better to bother Coffee with it and tell her to correct me where I'm too terribly off the mark. :smallconfused:
Eh, I'll just go and work out some other outlines for a while.

The style is more or less an accident, by the way. I started out by going for realism, then tried manga/anime style because I thought it would be way easier to master (I was so dumb.). After a while I decided I didn't like it after all and wanted to get away from it a bit, et voilà - this is where I'm stuck now. :smallbiggrin:

And yay for fanart season! Count me in.

(I hope this wasn't getting too OT. If so, I'm terribly sorry.)

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-10, 04:26 PM
Thank you, but you're right in that it's called fanart. I want to see your interpretation. :smalltongue:

Silverberry
2011-03-10, 04:34 PM
Alright, got the message and will act according to it. :smallbiggrin:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-10, 04:45 PM
... Wow. Thank you so much for this great, elaborate post, Eleanor.

[...]

(I hope this wasn't getting too OT. If so, I'm terribly sorry.)

Ooh, sorry I put you off there! As you guessed, that wasn't what I was trying to do. :smallfrown:

If I were you I would go ahead and post the sketches you have - you're right, our imagined versions are never going to be the same as anyone else's and that includes Coffee's. I only mentioned the points she raised on mine to give you some possible leads on a direction to take. CWater's interpretation of Janine looks pretty different from mine, as in fact does Keveak's as do CWater's and Zanaril's Lloyds and Coffee hasn't made any comments on any version of her characters looking more like her vision of them over any other.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-10, 04:47 PM
Exactly! I'm just commenting and saying what I interpret them as as well.

Silverberry
2011-03-10, 04:56 PM
I know you were actually aiming for the opposite, so no need to apologize.
And thank you again for your efforts, I really appreciate it.
I'll see if I get something done tomorrow. :)

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-11, 04:03 PM
Okay, I'm leaving around 6 PM and will be back later tonight. So update either late tonight or first thing tomorrow.

Silverberry
2011-03-11, 04:49 PM
In case you update tonight, I probably won't be around to see it. What a shame. :smallannoyed:

But I think I've finished my version of Lloyd. I find that I just can't do any better as of now even though I'm not completely okay with it, so here goes.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/Lloyd.jpg

He looks a tiny bit troubled in my opinion, but then again, it's only fitting, I guess.

Herpestidae
2011-03-11, 04:55 PM
In case you update tonight, I probably won't be around to see it. What a shame. :smallannoyed:

But I think I've finished my version of Lloyd. I find that I just can't do any better as of now even though I'm not completely okay with it, so here goes.

snip

He looks a tiny bit troubled in my opinion, but then again, it's only fitting, I guess.

He looks a bit confused, IMHO, but...

http://captionsearch.com/pix/jiqd2154kr.jpg
Dat Hair.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-11, 05:00 PM
In case you update tonight, I probably won't be around to see it. What a shame. :smallannoyed:

But I think I've finished my version of Lloyd. I find that I just can't do any better as of now even though I'm not completely okay with it, so here goes.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/Lloyd.jpg

He looks a tiny bit troubled in my opinion, but then again, it's only fitting, I guess.

Too skinny, I think you're better at drawing girls.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-11, 05:02 PM
You're really great at drawing hair, you know that? However, yeah. Lloyd's a Fighter/Paladin. He's on the bulky side. Matt's the fragile speedster and Tinder's in the middle. :smalltongue:

Silverberry
2011-03-11, 05:08 PM
I have more practice drawing female characters, so you're both right - there's something I really have to work on. :smallredface:
Maybe I will come back to him later and do it better than this time. Like I said, that's what I can do right now.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-11, 05:10 PM
He looks very bishie to me.
Reminds me of Eliwood from Fire Emblem.

Herpestidae
2011-03-11, 05:20 PM
He looks very bishie to me.
Reminds me of Marth from Fire Emblem.

FTFY:smallsmile:

Silverberry
2011-03-11, 05:24 PM
He looks very bishie to me.
Reminds me of Eliwood from Fire Emblem.

I assure you that's purely coincidence. :smallbiggrin:

Lix Lorn
2011-03-11, 05:30 PM
FTFY:smallsmile:
Marth has different hair. xD
Also, I haven't played his games.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-11, 05:32 PM
He does look like Marth! I can't believe I didn't notice that!

FYI, first time I saw Marth, I thought he was a girl.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-11, 07:00 PM
Sorry it's taking so long. I had a REALLY bad day, and when I came home it was either play Pokemon or curl into a little ball and cry.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-11, 07:03 PM
Sorry it's taking so long. I had a REALLY bad day, and when I came home it was either play Pokemon or curl into a little ball and cry.

Pokemon?:smallconfused::smalltongue:

Qwertystop
2011-03-11, 07:03 PM
Pokemon?:smallconfused::smalltongue:

As a distraction from the Unspecified Badness of the Day.
:smallbiggrin:

Lix Lorn
2011-03-11, 07:04 PM
(hugs LOTS)

Volthawk
2011-03-11, 07:05 PM
Sorry it's taking so long. I had a REALLY bad day, and when I came home it was either play Pokemon or curl into a little ball and cry.

Ah, don't worry about it. Your happiness should come first for you.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-11, 07:06 PM
Well, to make a long story short, remember the science competition I was going to go to next week? The state science competition? And I'm a senior, so it's my last one ever?

Well, THE TEACHER IN CHARGE DIDN'T SEND IN THE FORMS ON TIME, SO OUR WHOLE TEAM GOT DISQUALIFIED!

Which is why I'm playing Pokemon White. As well as the "Getting through the game bit".

Jade Dragon
2011-03-11, 07:06 PM
As a distraction from the Unspecified Badness of the Day.
:smallbiggrin:

Why pokemon? The card game is bad, and the video games are highly redundant. The only thing I really like are the pokemon mystery dungeon games.

Qwertystop
2011-03-11, 07:11 PM
Why pokemon? The card game is bad, and the video games are highly redundant. The only thing I really like are the pokemon mystery dungeon games.
Matter of opinion. There's an entire Pokemon thread on here, and we're on #8.

Well, to make a long story short, remember the science competition I was going to go to next week? The state science competition? And I'm a senior, so it's my last one ever?

Well, THE TEACHER IN CHARGE DIDN'T SEND IN THE FORMS ON TIME, SO OUR WHOLE TEAM GOT DISQUALIFIED!

Which is why I'm playing Pokemon White. As well as the "Getting through the game bit".
Wow... That's... bad. I don't remember, was it like a science fair or more of a Jeopardy thing? If the former, what was your project?

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-11, 07:15 PM
Ouch. Sorry your trip got wrecked, Coffee. :smallfrown:

Silverberry, what everyone says about the hair is true. I've not got the hang of the stuff yet myself. I quite like the armour design too, what we can see of it is quite interesting.

Finally, an odd/random question for Coffee: is Radic religious? We know Lloyd and Janine follow Astrid and I think Serrin follows Isarus and Don, I seem to remember that whilst Aequar has a version of Tiamat, Tinder doesn't really do religion especially and I'm kind of drawing a blank with Matt but know he doesn't follow Isarus and Don and don't think he's in Astrid's church. I get the impression the Quillas don't really subscribe to any religions because of the whole 'no pilgramages' thing?

Herpestidae
2011-03-11, 07:21 PM
Well, to make a long story short, remember the science competition I was going to go to next week? The state science competition? And I'm a senior, so it's my last one ever?

Well, THE TEACHER IN CHARGE DIDN'T SEND IN THE FORMS ON TIME, SO OUR WHOLE TEAM GOT DISQUALIFIED!

Which is why I'm playing Pokemon White. As well as the "Getting through the game bit".

You know what helps me when I'm upset? GIFs of Hugs.

May All (http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/ae115/rileyhays217/GIFS/grouphug.gif) Of Your (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/sevenmarie/kittybear.gif) Sadness Be (http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa101/PattyPruePiper/Gifs/bhzkno.gif) Hugged away. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/StupidityKills/gifs/sadhug.gif)

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-11, 07:23 PM
Ouch. Sorry your trip got wrecked, Coffee. :smallfrown:

Silverberry, what everyone says about the hair is true. I've not got the hang of the stuff yet myself. I quite like the armour design too, what we can see of it is quite interesting.

Finally, an odd/random question for Coffee: is Radic religious? We know Lloyd and Janine follow Astrid and I think Serrin follows Isarus and Don, I seem to remember that whilst Aequar has a version of Tiamat, Tinder doesn't really do religion especially and I'm kind of drawing a blank with Matt but know he doesn't follow Isarus and Don and don't think he's in Astrid's church. I get the impression the Quillas don't really subscribe to any religions because of the whole 'no pilgramages' thing?

She worships the four elemental gods, but not really devoutly. Forgive me, but what was the "No pilgrimages" thing again? :smallredface:

And thanks. I'll try to update tonight.

Lycan 01
2011-03-11, 07:38 PM
Sorry to hear 'bout that Coffee. :smallfrown:

*hug*

Have fun with your new Pokemon game, at least. :smallbiggrin:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-11, 07:49 PM
She worships the four elemental gods, but not really devoutly. Forgive me, but what was the "No pilgrimages" thing again? :smallredface:

And thanks. I'll try to update tonight.

I suppose that would be a logical set for a druid to follow.
I was thinking of this strip (http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/NoSheWasntListening.png) when I was talking about "No pilgrimages" but I didn't look it up beforehand. Turns out it was missionaries, not pilgrimages. It was quite a while back.

Silverberry
2011-03-11, 08:09 PM
Well, THE TEACHER IN CHARGE DIDN'T SEND IN THE FORMS ON TIME, SO OUR WHOLE TEAM GOT DISQUALIFIED!

Just... wow. I can't believe someone allowed this to happen.
Best wishes and don't force yourself to update if you don't feel up to it.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-03-11, 08:19 PM
:smallfrown: Sorry to hear that coffee; ....mmm hugs and a cookie for you.

Keveak
2011-03-11, 08:27 PM
That's sad, Coffee. Very sad.

All I can do is give you more hugs but I will do what I can.

*BIG hug*

At least you have Pokemon, I don't have Back/White yet but they sound like they can cheer you up. :smallsmile:

Mystic Muse
2011-03-11, 09:32 PM
Poor coffee:smallfrown:

*hugs* Have fun playing Pokemon anyway.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-11, 11:33 PM
I don't think I'm going to be able to finish tonight. Sorry...

Silverraptor
2011-03-11, 11:39 PM
I don't think I'm going to be able to finish tonight. Sorry...

Go ahead and go to bed, Coffee. Good night.

Herpestidae
2011-03-11, 11:55 PM
Hey, you're feeling down. You really don't have to apologize for skipping an update. We all love you (platonically or otherwise) and what you do, and one missed out update because you're bummed isn't going to turn us into an angry mob.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-12, 12:37 AM
All I've got left is background and dialogue; if I can update before going to sleep, I will. Thanks, guys. :smallsmile:
EDIT: And here is the update!

#121: Barely Breakable Vow
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/BarelyBreakableVow.png

Silverraptor
2011-03-12, 12:37 AM
72 hours later = increadible number of comics later.

Herpestidae
2011-03-12, 12:41 AM
Shouldn't you get to know him first? I mean, we don't even know his name. *whatever noise is made when someone makes a bad joke*

Silverraptor
2011-03-12, 12:44 AM
Shouldn't you get to know him first? I mean, we don't even know his name. *whatever noise is made when someone makes a bad joke*

He probably doesn't even have one. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0539.html):smalltongue:

HalfTangible
2011-03-12, 12:50 AM
Shouldn't you get to know him first? I mean, we don't even know his name. *whatever noise is made when someone makes a bad joke*

Rimshot ?

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-12, 12:51 AM
He probably doesn't even have one. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0539.html):smalltongue:

I hereby dub him Peaty then... assuming coffee doesn’t already have a name for him :P

Marnath
2011-03-12, 03:27 AM
I'm sorry you missed out on the science thing.:smallfrown:

I just have one question about the current arc: why are they sleeping in the rain? o.O Isn't there like an awning or something over one of the doorways in that area?

CWater
2011-03-12, 03:51 AM
Sorry to hear about the science competition Coffee. That really sucks.:smallfrown:


I just have one question about the current arc: why are they sleeping in the rain? o.O Isn't there like an awning or something over one of the doorways in that area?

I was wondering about the same thing, but I suppose there is something above them and the rain's just in the front?

Hmm...well, seems to get conveniently solved, wonder what happens next?:smalltongue:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-12, 07:58 AM
Hm. Thought you'd have more to say about Janine and her fears.

Silverberry
2011-03-12, 08:42 AM
I'm starting to have assumptions about Janines past that aren't pretty. Or maybe I'm just interpreting too much into her words.

Lord Loss
2011-03-12, 08:56 AM
Hoo Boy. What the hell happened to Janine in the past? Also, the chances of this guy being an evil god in human form are, like, a million to one. Oh dear :smalleek:.

Jade Dragon
2011-03-12, 11:22 AM
Hoo Boy. What the hell happened to Janine in the past? Also, the chances of this guy being an evil god in human form are, like, a million to one. Oh dear :smalleek:.

Oh come on! It's not a one in a million chance! It's more like a one in a trillion chance!

Lemonus
2011-03-12, 07:29 PM
Oh come on! It's not a one in a million chance! It's more like a one in a trillion chance!

THAT'S EVEN WORSE!!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-12, 07:30 PM
...Or he could be telling the truth? :smalltongue:

RdMarquis
2011-03-12, 08:31 PM
True. If he's going to such lengths, it's either that, or he is absolutely dead set on killing those kids (no pun intended). This is probably another one for the Wild Mass Guessing section, but what if this cleric is the one who eventually teaches her to trust again? He could be a recurring character whose loyalties are repeatedly questioned by Janine, until the events of the plot prove beyond a doubt that he is a good person who wanted nothing more than to protect Lucille and Cyrus. Maybe he'll win her heart, too, since Janine has no chance of getting Lloyd to fall for her.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-12, 08:43 PM
Then make a WMG TvTropes page! :smallbiggrin:

Marnath
2011-03-13, 01:51 AM
True. If he's going to such lengths, it's either that, or he is absolutely dead set on killing those kids (no pun intended). This is probably another one for the Wild Mass Guessing section, but what if this cleric is the one who eventually teaches her to trust again? He could be a recurring character whose loyalties are repeatedly questioned by Janine, until the events of the plot prove beyond a doubt that he is a good person who wanted nothing more than to protect Lucille and Cyrus. Maybe he'll win her heart, too, since Janine has no chance of getting Lloyd to fall for her.

Maybe he's a bit player we'll never see again after a few more strips. :smallamused:

leakingpen
2011-03-13, 03:42 AM
hes actually the avatar of the killed god dog thing, whose in hiding for some reason.

RdMarquis
2011-03-13, 05:35 AM
Then make a WMG TvTropes page! :smallbiggrin:

Your wish is granted. I've also written the first two entries.

Themrys
2011-03-13, 06:00 AM
Hm. Thought you'd have more to say about Janine and her fears.

I think she's just genre-savvy. :smallsmile: I myself had a pretty normal childhood and I would still distrust him in real life. Maybe I spent too much time on TV-Tropes. :smallbiggrin:

Silverberry
2011-03-13, 10:29 AM
Next one finished.
How fortunate that it's so fitting right now. :smallbiggrin:

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/janine1180.jpg

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-13, 11:40 AM
Next one finished.
How fortunate that it's so fitting right now. :smallbiggrin:

Janine portrait

Wow.
That's a really different take on her to how I picture her. Don't get me wrong - that's in no way a bad thing and it doesn't really change my attitude towards the sketch, it's just very different.
The hair's very lovely and curly wurly although I've got to say the top of her head is pretty flat and angular in a slightly odd way, can't tell if that's a deliberate stylisation and exaggeration of the head shape and hair line/parting or just the result of not getting it quite the shape you wanted. (Or just me, whatever). Overall she looks nice 'n pretty.

Edited to Add: For anybody who's curious, if I had to choose just one public figure who matched my own vision of Janine's appearance it would probably be Natalie Venetia Belcon. Not 100% how I picture Janine, but a fairly close approximation. And probably not a complete coincidence (http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/AvenueJ.png) :smallwink:


On the update itself - I wasn't inspired to comment on Janine's fears especially because I didn't really feel any hints were dropped that we hadn't already heard in other forms. It's new and frightening material for the fire cleric but hardly a revelation for the audience.
I have to agree with what others have said about the rain too: it's good for the atmosphere but you do kind of get distracted wondering why she'd set the twins down to sleep in the rain. I concluded the same thing as CWater - that the twins are in fact sheltered but we see rain across them because it's still raining in front of their shelter - but I think this might come across better if some sort of simple platform were added in above the twins' heads, maybe one that cast them in a slight shadow. It's a little niggle but it's always nicer to know that readers are focussing on the action/ the scene itself rather than little possible inconsistencies like that.
I also kind of wondered why Janine didn't just take them inside the pub with her where it was warm and dry and help from others would be at hand but if she'd done that a)She'd have had to disturb Cyrus which might have made some sort of injury he had worse and more importantly b)if she'd taken the twins inside then the rest of the party would have had to either become involved or be suspiciously ignorant of the situation and the results of the drinking contest may have been spoiled for us. Taking the twins into the pub would have stopped this whole business from being a Janine oriented side-arc and it's about time she got this extra 'screen' time, so I'm willing to suspend my disbelief a little there.

Gotta echo Silver Raptor too though: 72 hours could amount to a lot of in-comic time - is Janine going to be completely without spells for this period or have I missed something important about the concept of casting time? It's a neat way to convince her that he's serious about his commitment to the twins though because it seems like kind of a big deal to figure a way to work around if he was playing a trick. Mind you, I didn't particularly doubt him to begin with (I probably would in Janine's position though, it's always better to be careful when you're actually involved in something like that). I also didn't comment sooner because I wasn't sure how capable I was going to be of not talking about the source the title is probably referencing which could only lead to a trip to tangent town.

Silverberry
2011-03-13, 12:23 PM
Eleanor: Yes, I've seen your drawings and our Janines are not alike at all. However, that's only natural. :smallbiggrin:
My original idea was a different one again, but the picture turned out not quite as I had intended (not a rare occurence, so...).
The shape of her hair on top is deliberate, though.

As for the comic, I asked myself the same questions about the 72 hours, but I'm just going to wait and see what happens next.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-13, 12:27 PM
Uh, I can't see the pic...

For the next 72 hours after casting a Divine Vow, anybody who took part in the casting has absolutely no spellcasting abilities whatsoever. No spell defense either. That's how draining the spell is.

And yeah, the kids are sheltered under an awning. Janine can't bring them inside though. She really doesn't like bars...

Silverberry
2011-03-13, 12:39 PM
For the next 72 hours after casting a Divine Vow, anybody who took part in the casting has absolutely no spellcasting abilities whatsoever. No spell defense either. That's how draining the spell is.

Well, that'll be a serious handicap. She must be really worried.

I don't know why you can't see the pic, however. :smallfrown:

Edit: Maybe like this?

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/Ereignishorizont/mlfanart/janine1180.jpg

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-13, 12:41 PM
Eleanor: Yes, I've seen your drawings and our Janines are not alike at all. However, that's only natural. :smallbiggrin:
My original idea was a different one again, but the picture turned out not quite as I had intended (not a rare occurence, so...).
The shape of her hair on top is deliberate, though.

As for the comic, I asked myself the same questions about the 72 hours, but I'm just going to wait and see what happens next.

My natural drawing style is pretty stylised and since all my fan art has been digital and that still comes less naturally to me than drawing with physical materials I haven't made a huge effort to base my Janine on what I picture her to look like when I read the comics. A lot of my non realism pictures of real specific people come out looking really creepy and odd so I just go for something slightly generic and stylised that I hope captures the general essence of the character in some way (this gets very mixed results with anything but my own creations, and they misbehave a lot too).

I hate bars too but I imagine Janine has grimmer reasons than me. I feel trapped and confused when I'm in pubs (I think this is a Britishism, me saying 'pubs' where other posters are saying 'bars', I tend to think of bars as being more modern institutions than the traditional 'Public House' but the word 'pub' doesn't seem to come up so much in American media whereas Brits still use it in day to day speech and are unlikely to say 'bars'. Being a mix of both I use 'pub' for anything cosy and traditional and 'bar' for something sleeker and more sophisticated - or a place where you get alcohol within a hotel etc. That's the most common British use for 'bar' I think) to the extent that I had to make a run for it on the one occasion I decided to give a 'pub crawl' a go for the sake of socialising. A 'responsible adult' actually had to come out and show me the way back home, I got so worked up. It was silly. I don't find the atmosphere of such watering holes comfortable at all so I can identify with Janine there without even taking an unpleasant past into account. On the other hand I also tried a coffee crawl and found the experience much more enjoyable (I don't think any coffee was consumed on this outing, the beverages of choice were soft drinks, free tap water and hot chocolate) maybe something for Janine to bear in mind next time Matt has a bright idea? :smallbiggrin:
(What do you mean they didn't do 'cafés' in medieval times? This is Aequar, it's totally ligit! :smalltongue:)

Silverberry
2011-03-13, 12:47 PM
My natural drawing style is pretty stylised and since all my fan art has been digital and that still comes less naturally to me than drawing with physical materials I haven't made a huge effort to base my Janine on what I picture her to look like when I read the comics.


Ah, so that's what you meant. Never mind, then. :smallbiggrin:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-13, 01:05 PM
The picture's still showing up fine on my laptop. :smallconfused: Not sure why it's not appearing on your end, Coffee. Maybe try quoting the post with the image in to get the url and pasting that into your browser? Worth a shot maybe although I'm really not an IT wiz.

All this fanart discussion and today being a Sunday has inspired me to fire up GIMP and have another go at the project I was talking about. Looking at things again I think I was maybe being optimisitic when I said I was 60% done with it, especially now that I've decided it needs an extra stage to look right. So I probably won't finish it today either, but I might get it to a stage where people can get the gist but still be able to tell it's not really a 'finished' piece - first draft stage, if you will. I don't get how Coffee manages to update the strip weekly and still do all her other things. I'm definately someone who has more ideas than time to execute them, or at least that's the way things are when you 'manage' your time the same way I do (or rather don't). :smalltongue:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-13, 01:08 PM
Her right eye looks weird. But I like the drawing. (However, I've seen Janine as kinda chunky, but chunky in a way that she carries it really well.)

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-13, 01:19 PM
Her right eye looks weird. But I like the drawing. (However, I've seen Janine as kinda chunky, but chunky in a way that she carries it really well.)
(emphasis mine)

My interpretation of Janine is based largely on your comments in these threads: Janine having the most noticeable 'assets' of the three girls in the party for example. Given that the other girls are Serrin, a half elf and Radic who I've always imagined as being quite aquiline and 'boyish' in terms of figure that's not really saying a lot though. To use the Williams sisters as an example though, I've always thought of her as more of a Serena than a Venus. I think of both sisters as very attractive ladies (in spite of some ridiculously cruel and spiteful things the British media has to say about their physical appearance at times: an unpleasantly common joke in these parts is to pretend they're men in drag - I can't really reconcile that opinion as yes, they're strong and they're powerful, but I've always since I was rather small admired them as very beautiful women), but their attractiveness manifests itself in very different ways considering they're sisters. I think a term that would probably describe Janine nicely might be 'rubanesque'?

All this said, I have nothing against interpretations of Janine that give her a different body type or skin tone to what I imagine, personally. Different takes are always interesting to see.

Silverberry
2011-03-13, 01:25 PM
Huh. And here I thought it was her left eye that looked weird and made her look like she's squinting a little. Or maybe that's just me.

Or were you talking about "right" as in, from the viewers point of view?

Asta Kask
2011-03-13, 03:30 PM
And yeah, the kids are sheltered under an awning. Janine can't bring them inside though. She really doesn't like bars...

For some reason I read that as "She really doesn't like bras...", which makes sense because she leaps at every opportunity to remove them. :smallwink:

Herpestidae
2011-03-13, 03:45 PM
For some reason I read that as "She really doesn't like bras..."

Proof that all men think alike.:smallbiggrin:

HalfTangible
2011-03-13, 04:04 PM
Proof that all men think alike.:smallbiggrin:

That is the dirtiest true stereotype I've ever heard!

Edit: joke aside. Is that seriously what normal guys think about 24/7?

Bleh :yuk: pathetic

Herpestidae
2011-03-13, 04:08 PM
Edit: joke aside. Is that seriously what normal guys think about 24/7?


No. It's just that the slightest thing could get us to start thinking about it, and we see it where it isn't.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-13, 04:15 PM
That is the dirtiest true stereotype I've ever heard!

Edit: joke aside. Is that seriously what normal guys think about 24/7?

Bleh :yuk: pathetic

I'd really like to think that this whole tangent would have been avoided if everbody used the word 'pubs' like I do. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure this would have just lead us down an even less board friendly path. :smallannoyed:
(If you can't figure out what I mean, just consider yourself nice and clean minded and let it go!)
Maybe 'taverns' is more innuendo-proof? I imagine you guys could work something out but I'm not taking suggestions here. :smallamused:
I've been working away at my Murphy's Law fan project and I reckon now it's about 60% complete in terms of being ready to show to people. Having a lot of fun with this one so I hope I actually manage to finish it soonish!

And in answer to your question, if you count the comic's characters as 'normal guys' I'd wager that Matt would give you a resounding "yes", Tinder would be reluctant to answer and Lloyd would at least probably not be having such thoughts about ladies :smallbiggrin:
Edited to Add: And Janine and possibly also Serrin would tell you that such behaviour isn't restricted to guys (although, like Lloyd, the gender bias would be inverted)

HalfTangible
2011-03-13, 04:18 PM
I said "normal". Adventurers are NOT normal. :tongue:

Keveak
2011-03-13, 04:30 PM
That is the dirtiest true stereotype I've ever heard!

Edit: joke aside. Is that seriously what normal guys think about 24/7?

Bleh :yuk: pathetic

Statistically impossible, they'd be completely unable to focus on work of any kind.

...

You know, I'm beginning to understand why I get second-best grades in class without even getting one A on the chart. :smalltongue:

Anyhow, am I the only one who can only think of "Dub" as a mishearing of "Pub"?

HalfTangible
2011-03-13, 04:37 PM
Statistically impossible, they'd be completely unable to focus on work of any kind.

...

You know, I'm beginning to understand why I get second-best grades in class without even getting one A on the chart. :smalltongue:

Anyhow, am I the only one who can only think of "Dub" as a mishearing of "Pub"?

All I can think about is "what exactly is it I'm thinking about?"

And statistical probality never stopped 'em before :tongue: