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Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-14, 11:22 AM
Personally I like the way you wrote the dialogue. Subtlety (not sure if this is exactly the right word) fits this scene, the comics style, and this forum, better than bluntness. Janine's reaction carries indeed rather dark implications of her past

So, I repeat, I wonder what will happen next? :-J


Just wanted to +1 on this comment: I know I said I didn't think we learned anything new on Janine's fears but I didn't mean to imply that I wasn't impressed by the update (I may not have done, but I'd rather it were clear). The dialogue was particularly good in this update and I think natural and convincing dialogue is something you've (Coffee, I mean) really improved at since the comic started. You've gone from some slightly stilted and over worked dialogue to stuff that says volumes in very few words. That's not meant to be a jab at the early work, just an example of the progress I feel you've made.
(Hope that doesn't come off as patronising somehow!)



According to an article I read, 30% of men think about sex at least once in half an hour.:smallsigh: Of women, it's 10%. Apparently, women tend to think more about food.:smallwink:


I don't like generalisations, but the bit about women and food rings very true on a personal level. :smallbiggrin:

Silverberry
2011-03-14, 01:41 PM
Seriously, your ability to draw hair is amazing. Ears and clothes are also very good.:smallsmile: What I think you could mostly improve, is the facial features. They are nice, but somewhat simplistic compared to the other parts of the pictures.

First of all, thanks. :smallbiggrin:
As for the faces - I am currently trying to get them to look less manga-ish and more realistic instead. Maybe that'll take care of that - but noses give me a headache. ... I need more pencils.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-14, 04:32 PM
Think we are getting kinda off topic here guys.
Though i think men think about sex more often then women because of a primal instinct thing, we want to mate as often as possible, to secure as many offspring as possible, to reduce the chances of the competition securing any mates/offspring.

Marnath
2011-03-17, 12:42 AM
Where did everyone go? O.o
*crickets in the distance*

super dark33
2011-03-17, 08:10 AM
woah, no posting in a day! thats a record i think

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-17, 08:05 PM
Update tomorrow, guys! Oh, and in the car just now, Radic told me of one of her critical, defining memories/moments in her life. You'll see it in the prequel, which will be titled Roleplaying Experience. :smallbiggrin:

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-17, 08:08 PM
Update tomorrow, guys! Oh, and in the car just now, Radic told me of one of her critical, defining memories/moments in her life. You'll see it in the prequel, which will be titled Roleplaying Experience. :smallbiggrin:

Love the prequel name!

Mystic Muse
2011-03-17, 08:20 PM
Update tomorrow, guys! Oh, and in the car just now, Radic told me of one of her critical, defining memories/moments in her life.

Coffee, if your characters are talking to you, you need to take a break. :smalltongue:

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-17, 09:02 PM
Coffee, if your characters are talking to you, you need to take a break. :smalltongue:

No! This is when people are at their best!

Herpestidae
2011-03-17, 09:19 PM
Coffee, if your characters are talking to you, you need to take a break. :smalltongue:

My characters talk to me all the time. They get in inter-continuity fights with each other as well.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-17, 09:20 PM
My characters talk to me all the time. They get in inter-continuity fights with each other as well.

I bet John Flanagan and Rick Riordan talk to their characters.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-18, 04:09 AM
Coffee, if your characters are talking to you, you need to take a break. :smalltongue:
All the best writers talk to their characters. :smallcool:[/arrogance]
:smalltongue:

leakingpen
2011-03-18, 04:33 AM
Honestly, a lot of writers have borderline dissociative. Having the characters be separate entities in the head that talk to you is normal.

Asta Kask
2011-03-18, 04:34 AM
All the best writers talk to their characters. :smallcool:[/arrogance]
:smalltongue:

Talking to your characters is fine. It's when they start talking back you have to worry.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-18, 05:37 AM
My characters are distinct enough that I can pretty much ask them how they'd react in any given circumstance. xD

Asta Kask
2011-03-18, 06:10 AM
Ok, so Janine is out of the loop for 72 hours, and the others are drunk... anyone want to bet something bad is going to happen?

Lix Lorn
2011-03-18, 06:58 AM
No-one's stupid enough to bet against. :smalltongue:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-18, 07:18 AM
Ok, so Janine is out of the loop for 72 hours, and the others are drunk... anyone want to bet something bad is going to happen?

:smallconfused: When we last saw the others they were drinking not drunk.

Of course, given that Matt and Serrin had just started a drinking contest it's a fairly safe bet that unless it was interrupted one or both of them at least will be drunk by now or shortly unless they're passed out/ have choked to death on their own bile/ other stupid consequence of the ridiculous tradition of drinking contests. I'm not against alcohol consumption at all so long as it's in moderation most of the time but the whole "aren't drinking contests funny?!" thing that fiction has going on some of the time has always irritated me: I don't think they're fun, they prove nothing and they have the potential to be pretty dangerous to an unreasonable amount of people in an unreasonable amount of ways. Sorry. [/killjoy]
(I can't remember if Janine was aware of the drinking game or if she left before it came up or just didn't really notice because she was too busy freaking out, but I suspect her personal reaction to it would probably be similar to mine for much more specific and distressing reasons)

I don't think drinking contest between friends with vaguely responsible and presumably less drunk friends present is too likely to result in instant death, mind. :smallbiggrin:

Lix is still right though: I can't see a lot of people taking you up on that bet. Something bad is bound to happen soon - specific circumstances aside, this is Murphy's Law we're talking about here - it's just a question of what, how bad it is and how long lasting and far reaching the consequences will be...

(...my, what a delightfully upbeat post that was! :smalltongue:)

Lix Lorn
2011-03-18, 07:20 AM
Wow. You should go listen to some Linkin Park to cheer up. :smalltongue:
...or to Eleanor Rigby. Hooray for totally depressing awesome music!

Edit: And more on topic, I can attest that watching drunk people do silly things is very entertaining. :smallbiggrin:

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-18, 07:50 AM
My characters talk to me all the time. They get in inter-continuity fights with each other as well.



Oh thank god i'm not alone in this!

I keep telling my city of villains character, "Biotore stop attacking the D&D characters!" but he's just all like "BIOTORE CRUSH ALL MACHINES!" And then the Electro gypsy is trying to sing daft punk while keeping his electric keytar/greataxe from getting smashed and all the while the MSPA fantrolls are too busy either fighting amongst themselves, having dramatic relationships, or flirting with the three characters up there that AREN'T from a pre-existing universe.

And the bugbears... The bugbears just shake their heads... Exept Respelga the barbarian, she likes to fight Biotore for the heck of it.



And back to the topic at hand: Drinking contests and other methods of intoxication are actually a really good way of bringing out who a character is on the inside. You may have MR big, strong guy who puts on an aura of "i hate everything kill kill kill get the chicks cuz I’m emo", but once he's drunk? He's petting the kittens and telling everyone he respects them or looks up to them because of some emotional insecurity.

Asta Kask
2011-03-18, 09:23 AM
:smallconfused: When we last saw the others they were drinking not drunk.

Of course, given that Matt and Serrin had just started a drinking contest it's a fairly safe bet that unless it was interrupted one or both of them at least will be drunk by now or shortly unless they're passed out/ have choked to death on their own bile/ other stupid consequence of the ridiculous tradition of drinking contests. I'm not against alcohol consumption at all so long as it's in moderation most of the time but the whole "aren't drinking contests funny?!" thing that fiction has going on some of the time has always irritated me: I don't think they're fun, they prove nothing and they have the potential to be pretty dangerous to an unreasonable amount of people in an unreasonable amount of ways. Sorry. [/killjoy]

Remember, sobriety is only a 7th level cleric away.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-03-18, 09:26 AM
Remember, sobriety is only a 7th level cleric away.

Restoration?

Asta Kask
2011-03-18, 09:28 AM
Neutralize Poison.

Actually, a 5th level Druid would serve as well.

leakingpen
2011-03-18, 10:27 AM
Wow. You should go listen to some Linkin Park to cheer up. :smalltongue:
...or to Eleanor Rigby. Hooray for totally depressing awesome music!

Edit: And more on topic, I can attest that watching drunk people do silly things is very entertaining. :smallbiggrin:

YES! I love being the DD when I would go out to the bar, I was the only person sober enough to remember just how much of their body various people showed off, and to whom they showed it.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-18, 11:18 AM
YES! I love being the DD when I would go out to the bar, I was the only person sober enough to remember just how much of their body various people showed off, and to whom they showed it.
Four words:
Table. Surfing.
Wheelbarrow. Jousting.

I rest my case.

Devmaar
2011-03-18, 11:37 AM
Four words:
Table. Surfing.
Wheelbarrow. Jousting.

I rest my case.

I don't know about anyone else but my friends and I are perfectly capable of doing stuff like that without drinking.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-18, 11:40 AM
Yes, me too. :smallbiggrin:

HalfTangible
2011-03-18, 11:41 AM
Beer. Jacuzzi. Bath.

That's insane enough for a half hour or so.

EDIT: I am happy to say that if i ever witnessed it, i doubt the tub would be full at the end. I am happier to say that i have never actually seen anyone do this.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-18, 11:45 AM
Yes, but my two have actually been tried. I took part in the second. :smallbiggrin:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-18, 02:37 PM
Working on the comic right now! Expect BONUS CONTENT!

Dusk Eclipse
2011-03-18, 02:47 PM
Working on the comic right now! Expect BONUS CONTENT!

YAY BONUS CONTENT!!!....<_< >_> did I said that aloud? :smallredface:

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-18, 03:12 PM
YAY BONUS CONTENT!!!....<_< >_> did I said that aloud? :smallredface:
Don't worry about it.

Working on the comic right now! Expect BONUS CONTENT!

Extra long one? Yay!

Asta Kask
2011-03-18, 03:16 PM
Working on the comic right now! Expect BONUS CONTENT!

Serrin's gonna strip?! Wow!

blackjack217
2011-03-18, 03:17 PM
Serrin's gonna strip?! Wow!

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/7282/original/Facepalm.jpg

Asta Kask
2011-03-18, 03:23 PM
I'm all about the fan service.

...

Radic or Janine would do just as well.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-18, 03:23 PM
Serrin's gonna strip?! Wow!

Nah, Tinder's gonna go dragon.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-18, 03:30 PM
Since we are throwing out wild theories that are probably wrong, I’m gunna guess the following:

At some point in the comic it will flash forward to the next morning, bright sunny day, light pouring in through a window, back up a little more, you see Matt fast asleep.

Then the usual "Roll over, find someone in bed with you and scream" thing occurs with Serrin on the other side of the bed.

Whether or not anything actually happened between the two of them is anyone’s guess :P

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-18, 03:32 PM
Since we are throwing out wild theories that are probably wrong, I’m gunna guess the following:

At some point in the comic it will flash forward to the next morning, bright sunny day, light pouring in through a window, back up a little more, you see Matt fast asleep.

Then the usual "Roll over, find someone in bed with you and scream" thing occurs with Serrin on the other side of the bed.

Whether or not anything actually happened between the two of them is anyone’s guess :P

Mo, Radic in bear form and Lloyd are strong enough to hold one down each, and then there's Tinder helping them.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-18, 03:34 PM
Mo, Radic in bear form and Lloyd are strong enough to hold one down each, and then there's Tinder helping them.

Maybe they were passing out thanks to the drinking contest, so Lloyd, Tinder, and Radic decided to play a prank on them buy putting them in the same bed?

Possibly as revenge for rakeing up such a huge tab and being unable to pay for it.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-18, 04:40 PM
Damn, I really wish that St. Patrick's Day was today. It would make things so appropriate.

#122: Seven Drunken Strips
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/SevenDrunkenStrips.png

And here's that bonus content I was talking about! Remember how I said I'm taking a creative writing class in school right now? Well, what do you think?
Matt never liked elvish girls. Or elves in general, for that matter. People would stare at him whenever he loudly, repeatedly, shouted his distaste for them.

“But why?” they’d ask.

“Because they’re arrogant pricks with their noses in the air who are snooty and think they’re so much better than everyone else and meanwhile they’re sissies in a fight,” he’d snap back.

(And if you asked whether this had anything to do with a certain elf kid beating him in a freerunning contest, he’d hotly deny it and continue to deny it until you walked away or changed the subject.)

So no. Matt hated elves, elf girls included. Arrogant jerks who needed to be put into their place, the lot of them. As if he’d ever consider himself friends with one.

(Except that Serrin was chipper and perky and bubbly and perpetually happy and he’d never seen her arrogant, not even when she displayed her admittedly impressive intellect. Anyone who saw her would conclude that she was the patron saint of sunshine and lollipops or something. And they’d be right.)

And the language! Why the hell did anyone call it the language of love or elegance or some other crap like that? It was just an annoying buzzing. Much better to hear things in good old Common, where at least you understood what was going on. And who needed all those wines anyway? Give Matt a beer or some vodka and he’d be happy. Oh, and did he mention the arrogance? As if they’d ever deign themselves to make contact with “the common folk” or whatever they called it.

(Except that Serrin was laying all over his lap right now, in a way that would be insanely provocative coming from anybody else yet somehow still managed to stay chaste with her. She’s laying in his lap right now, as drunk as drunk can be, and she’s teaching him how to curse in Elvish. Maybe it’s the vodka, maybe it’s the fact that Matt didn’t even know that Serrin even knew these words or what they meant, but even the vilest phrases sounded like music coming from her mouth.)

And as she dragged him out into the middle of the bar and started to dance, sandy ponytail sweeping through the air, Matt figured that it’s probably the alcohol talking, but maybe he can make an exception to his previous claims about elves and elf girls.

Just this once.

Strife Warzeal
2011-03-18, 04:43 PM
I believe that this exact idea was brought up in an older thread, about Serrin and this song...

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-18, 04:48 PM
Serrin and Matthew, sitting in a tree. C-U-R-S-ING!

Hehehehe i might be right after all :smallamused:

Strife Warzeal
2011-03-18, 04:56 PM
If my cross-referencing of art is correct, Coffee just drew herself in panel 5.

Ninjaman
2011-03-18, 05:16 PM
This is not going well.

blackjack217
2011-03-18, 05:35 PM
Close the blast doors Close the blast doors.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-18, 05:41 PM
I think it's time for an intervention from the rest of the party.

Herpestidae
2011-03-18, 06:59 PM
... What word is Matt trying to say?

blackjack217
2011-03-18, 07:01 PM
... What word is Matt trying to say?

humiliate.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-18, 07:02 PM
SHIP
Oh gods so much ship <3
I loved the story. ^^

Lycan 01
2011-03-18, 07:50 PM
Okay, who's the fellow with the glasses and yellow hair? I think I recognize the other background NPC from previous artworks found in forsaken and esoteric GitP threads. :smallwink:

Also, love the expression's on Fir. :smalltongue:

Dusk Eclipse
2011-03-18, 08:11 PM
SHIP
Oh gods so much ship <3
I loved the story. ^^

I have to second this GO GO SerrinXMatt.

Love the story too

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-18, 08:30 PM
I think it's time for an intervention from the rest of the party.

Gee, ya think? :smalltongue:


Okay, who's the fellow with the glasses and yellow hair? I think I recognize the other background NPC from previous artworks found in forsaken and esoteric GitP threads. :smallwink:

Also, love the expression's on Fir. :smalltongue:

It's a cameo! The girl is me and the guy is a friend of mine! :smallbiggrin: And thanks!

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-18, 08:36 PM
Wow. You should go listen to some Linkin Park to cheer up. :smalltongue:
...or to Eleanor Rigby. Hooray for totally depressing awesome music!


I'd have taken up your advice here, Lix, but I got distracted picking up this rice in this church where a wedding had been. Not really sure why.... :smallconfused:



Remember, sobriety is only a 7th level cleric away.
[...]
Neutralize Poison.

Actually, a 5th level Druid would serve as well.

See, I don't play D&D so this thought wouldn't have occurred to me. That's kind of a neat idea, although assuming every D&D spell has an equivelent in Aequar is kind of a dodgy assumption to make. And even then, freak accidents still exist and are still about 70% more probable once extreme alchohol consumption is involved. Things might go downhill to quickly for a spellcaster to step in. [/DOOM]


Nah, Tinder's gonna go dragon.

I'm with you there. I don't really see how Tinder getting drunk and thus losing a considerable amount of control over things wouldn't result in a full sized green dragon in a small tavern given the length of time Tinder's spent living alone in the woods in his true form and how poor his arcane abilities seem to be when it comes to his human form.


Since we are throwing out wild theories that are probably wrong, I’m gunna guess the following:

At some point in the comic it will flash forward to the next morning, bright sunny day, light pouring in through a window, back up a little more, you see Matt fast asleep.

Then the usual "Roll over, find someone in bed with you and scream" thing occurs with Serrin on the other side of the bed.

Whether or not anything actually happened between the two of them is anyone’s guess :P


Mo, Radic in bear form and Lloyd are strong enough to hold one down each, and then there's Tinder helping them.

This made me snigger. Is it so impossible that Radic, Tinder and Lloyd would think that Serrin and Matt are technically adults and that they might even have feelings for each other anyway that drink just brings to the surface? Would they honestly feel they had to use physical force to intervene? (If they had any sense, then yes - yes they would. I have a feeling both parties would regret that come morning time)


Maybe they were passing out thanks to the drinking contest, so Lloyd, Tinder, and Radic decided to play a prank on them buy putting them in the same bed?

Possibly as revenge for rakeing up such a huge tab and being unable to pay for it.

That would be kind of cute/amusing. Rather mean too though, esp. if they took to long before fessing up that they'd done it.



And here's that bonus content I was talking about! Remember how I said I'm taking a creative writing class in school right now? Well, what do you think?
Matt never liked elvish girls. Or elves in general, for that matter. People would stare at him whenever he loudly, repeatedly, shouted his distaste for them.

“But why?” they’d ask.

“Because they’re arrogant pricks with their noses in the air who are snooty and think they’re so much better than everyone else and meanwhile they’re sissies in a fight,” he’d snap back.

(And if you asked whether this had anything to do with a certain elf kid beating him in a freerunning contest, he’d hotly deny it and continue to deny it until you walked away or changed the subject.)

So no. Matt hated elves, elf girls included. Arrogant jerks who needed to be put into their place, the lot of them. As if he’d ever consider himself friends with one.

(Except that Serrin was chipper and perky and bubbly and perpetually happy and he’d never seen her arrogant, not even when she displayed her admittedly impressive intellect. Anyone who saw her would conclude that she was the patron saint of sunshine and lollipops or something. And they’d be right.)

And the language! Why the hell did anyone call it the language of love or elegance or some other crap like that? It was just an annoying buzzing. Much better to hear things in good old Common, where at least you understood what was going on. And who needed all those wines anyway? Give Matt a beer or some vodka and he’d be happy. Oh, and did he mention the arrogance? As if they’d ever deign themselves to make contact with “the common folk” or whatever they called it.

(Except that Serrin was laying all over his lap right now, in a way that would be insanely provocative coming from anybody else yet somehow still managed to stay chaste with her. She’s laying in his lap right now, as drunk as drunk can be, and she’s teaching him how to curse in Elvish. Maybe it’s the vodka, maybe it’s the fact that Matt didn’t even know that Serrin even knew these words or what they meant, but even the vilest phrases sounded like music coming from her mouth.)

And as she dragged him out into the middle of the bar and started to dance, sandy ponytail sweeping through the air, Matt figured that it’s probably the alcohol talking, but maybe he can make an exception to his previous claims about elves and elf girls.

Just this once.


...when you asked what we thought I'm hoping me being completely honest won't upset anyone, I've got a sneaking suspicion that in some ways this is the sort of thing one ought to keep to oneself but if you're looking for honest opinions here... I didn't like it.
If that was all I could say about the matter then I would have just held my tongue, but I am aware of a reason or two as to why I didn't like it and I can trace those back to specific sentences and writing techniques so I'll go ahead and give my critique. Please don't let this get to you on a personal level because I wouldn't bother commenting if I didn't believe I was being constructive in my criticism, also plenty of people will disagree with me anyway so there's no reason to take my opinion to heart more than anyone else's!
"critique" (not all mean things in here but I waffle a lot and like most critiques the opinions expressed are mostly rather specific to me, so I've spoilered it since it's fairly boring/ annoying for most folk to sift through, especially if they disagree!)
On a purely subjective level, I didn't like this because it makes Matt, one of my favourite characters, come across as pretty repugnant. That's actually probably an achievement, writing-wise, because I'm generally inclined to like him but this extract is dealing with his racism and racism is ugly. There's obviously (black?) humour involved here but to be honest I didn't really get the benefit of it in this case because the humour stems from the fact that Matt's racism exists largely out of extremely small-minded personal envy of specific individuals and has more to do with self-loathing than it does with rational beliefs about elves - at this specific point in time, that just depresses me really, even with the jokes/ tongue-in-cheek style. So in that sense, there's not necessarily any problem with the writing there, it's just personal preferences etc. have meant that a lot of my reaction to this could be expressed as: unfortunate truths = depressing = do not like piece of writing.

On a more objective level, there's a very specific area of the extract that puts me off, I'll quote it now:


Except that Serrin was chipper and perky and bubbly and perpetually happy and he’d never seen her arrogant, not even when she displayed her admittedly impressive intellect. Anyone who saw her would conclude that she was the patron saint of sunshine and lollipops or something. And they’d be right.

This is essentially irrevelent information, but I'm actually taking a Creative Writing course myself at the moment, and I think that's one of the reasons I was able to pinpoint my problem with this piece to this quotation.
One of the most pervasive phrases in Creative Writing courses is this: Show don't Tell.
Like everything else in the world of writing, it's something that should be taken with a pinch of salt, but that's the quickest explanation as to why I disliked the above passage.

Serrin was chipper and perky and bubbly and perpetually happy and he'd never seen her arrogant, not even when she displayed her admittedly impressive intellect.
I can totally see your reasoning behind writing that sentence - it sums up quickly the things people love about Serrin, and the piece is dealing with Matt's changing attitude to elves in general through his interractions with Serrin. Personally I don't think that this works in such a brief and isolated piece, and even more personally, I don't think this works for me even having read the comic so far plus commentary.
My reaction to this sentence is very similar to the one I suspect that sarky Matt would have if he hadn't actually met and spent time with Serrin: I read it and I see a list of hyperbolic positives with little or no foundation. I know from the strip that Serrin is chipper and perky - the word choice is unfortunate here though because to me both words are also synonymous with "annoying", I usually only see either used as perjoratives to describe enthusiastic and happy people by people who are grumpy for whatever reason. They're like the negative way to describe positive attributes, and emotionally all that inspires in me is a prediliction to dislike the person being described. I *like* Serrin, but the phrasing makes me think of her as a potential irritant. "Bubbly" is an unfortunate word too given that it's kind of overused and essentially meaningless - "effervescent" would have been a much more original and effective way of saying the same thing, but I guess it's not really a word that Matt would use, so perhaps it's not that ideal. The thing with "bubbly" is that I think it works ok for foodstuffs but is a pathetic adjective when it comes to people - the main place it comes up is in dating ads and the lack of concrete meaning behind it combined with its prevalence in women's dating ads and the specific women who tend to use it in their personal ads has resulted in many guys concluding it's a euphamism for fat - so to me it's a bit of a spin word that I associate with trying to present a negative as a positive (although personally I don't tend to think bubbly = fatty, but there you go).
Next we have

and he'd never seen her arrogant
The logician in me realises that this relates to the fact that Matt used to see all elves as arrogant so this statement is significant - the reactionist in me sees this statement and thinks: well that's a real positive, so she's annoying but she's not arrogant; I'd have taken the same amount away if he'd said "and he'd never seen her smack a puppy in the face" - that doesn't make me like her any more, it's just pointing out a bad trait she doesn't happen to exhibit, a bad trait that many, many people don't exhibit, not anything endearing about her specifically. That's probably a kind of catty thing to say, but it can be helpful sometimes for writers to know what their readers are thinking. They don't have to do anything about it though!
And the next bit annoyed me aswell (because I'm ridiculously hard to please)

not even when she displayed her admittedly impressive intellect
That bit got to me because it's a problem that I think extends to how I react to Serrin as a character in the comic. I know that Serrin is really smart. You've told me that Serrin is really smart. But I can't think of any examples of when I've seen Serrin display her admittedly impressive intellect. So whenever the subject is raised I get a little bit roll-eyes-ey. I get that this is ought to explain that she has every reason to be arrogant but she isn't but since the claim feels almost unfounded it doesn't really work for me. As far as Serrin's intellect goes, in comic, all I'm coming up with is the fact that she got into the magical university and unfortunately, intellect isn't always the main reason people get admitted into universities - personal connections can also play a part in this, especially in fiction, and Serrin's parents are renowned which means Serrin has to work that extra bit harder to earn credibility as an individually talented person. I realise that she is an individually talented person, and I don't doubt it, but I can't think of an instance in the comic that actually demonstrates that, and I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it in this extract which makes it kind of weak when taken out of context.

So taking that sentence as a whole and coming back to the "show don't tell" guideline - the fact that the two sentences that follow are

Anyone who saw her would conclude that she was the patron saint of sunshine and lollipops or something. And they’d be right.
isn't ideal. I've "seen" her and I certainly didn't have that reaction to her and the last mini-sentence smacks of arrogance. To me (and probably not to most people) those two sentence read: this character is really upbeat and fun, and because I've told you that, you think it. That's kind of a hyperbolic explanation of my response, but tone it down a bit and that's how I felt when I read those three sentences, and that's why they didn't work for me.

To some extent I think just about everything I just waffled on is kind of null and void - it's all actually pretty subjective even if I did back it up with reference to a specific literary technique. But I spent quite a while typing all that out, so I'll be danged if I don't go ahead and post it for reactions just to justify the length of time I spent on the rant. You did also alternate between telling paragraphs and showing paragraphs, it just so happens that the tell ones aren't really "my kind of thing".
I thought the "real time" paragraphs were actually mostly pretty good, I'm just better at complaints than I am with praise! :smalltongue:


I got the distinct feeling that the cameo was a cameo but I had no clue who was involved. I tend to be like that with cameos for some reason, although I feel slightly better for not getting it seeing as I'd have no non-stalkery reason to have recognised your friend at least. :smallbiggrin:

Edited to add: I managed to completely skip over Fir's expressions the first time I read today's comic. I missed out there!
(That's clearly the real reason the piece of writing wasn't my cup of tea - it needed roughly 300% more Fir. :smallwink:)

Silverraptor
2011-03-18, 08:48 PM
It's a cameo! The girl is me and the guy is a friend of mine! :smallbiggrin: And thanks!

Really, which friend?:smallsmile:

Raging Gene Ray
2011-03-18, 09:49 PM
Serrin's about to remind a lot of adventurers of the times they got attacked by barbarians.

RdMarquis
2011-03-18, 10:32 PM
Oh, I don't know. Lyrical content aside, she could have a lovely singing voice.

Also, if Serrin and Matt did get married and have kids, would they be Quarter-elves? :smalltongue:

Marnath
2011-03-18, 10:34 PM
Oh, I don't know. Lyrical content aside, she could have a lovely singing voice.

Usually, being inebriated at the level she is makes a decent singing voice unlikely. :smalltongue:

*edit: oh, and the bonus material: good, Matt is taking the first steps down the road of outgrowing his prejudice. And maybe developing a crush on a pretty girl while he's at it. :smallcool:

Silverraptor
2011-03-18, 10:42 PM
Oh, I don't know. Lyrical content aside, she could have a lovely singing voice.

Also, if Serrin and Matt did get married and have kids, would they be Quarter-elves? :smalltongue:

Actually, they would be human with slight elven characteristics. If Matt was an elf and they were married, the children would be elves with slight human characteristics.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-18, 11:05 PM
It's a cameo! The girl is me and the guy is a friend of mine! :smallbiggrin: And thanks!


Really, which friend?:smallsmile:

My online-detect-sarcasm can be kind of poor at times, but when somebody did suggest the female cameo character was CoffeeIncluded I wondered if the male cameo character might be a real life Silverraptor.... I'm thinking it's somebody else though?

Also, to make up for my weird "critique" on your short, Coffee, here's part one of four of my new fan project.
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage1draft1-1.png
Scaled down for viewing in the playground. A bigger, clearer version can be found here (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage1draft1.png).
It's very scrappy, I know, but I really wanted to get the pages out there and taking shortcuts with the art is one of the compromises I'll have to make to do that. The other 3 pages have been scripted and boxed out which is more progress than I made with the covercomic I was making - this also has the advantage of slightly more original content. If I manage to publish all four pages then I'll probably clean them up a bit and add shading etc. afterwards, but just now scruffy scruffy is all I have the attention span/spare time for...
Funnily enough the script and layout just about wrote itself :smalleek:
It's worrying enough when Coffee's characters are speaking to her, but when her readers start thinking they're talking to them...? Mildly disconcerting is one way to describe it.
I made a draft file of the whole thing in one sitting a little after LixLorn demanded to see somebody draw a bearded Radic. The project owes a lot to conversation that took place on this thread, will feature all six party members to an extent and is a lot smaller scale than I'm probably making it sound.

Comments and criticism would be greatly appreciated if anyone has 'em, good or bad. A lot of the more glaring art errors are already leaping out at me but feel free to point dodgy stuff out if y'all want and consider it topic-friendly enough.

Edited to Add: I said in my last post that I didn't like the short. That just means parts of it weren't to my tastes - not that I thought it was outright bad or anything close to that.
It's also leading me to speculate we may have a Matt/Serrin/Radic love triangle on the cards. Personally I think Matt and Radic will win out because a)I'm not sure Serrin's even mildly into Matt and would rather see her and Tinder together (possibly because they're both at least part fantasy race and that appeals to me for some bizarre reason?) and b)Radic and Matt both seem kind of keen to get together at some stage. When I say "love triangle" I mean romantically confused Matt, mildly jealous Radic and largely oblivious and then kind of awkward feeling Serrin...

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-18, 11:09 PM
It's not Silverraptor. And thank you, Eleanor! This is gonna be great! (Though what happened with your other one?)

Silverraptor
2011-03-18, 11:11 PM
It's not Silverraptor. And thank you, Eleanor! This is gonna be great! (Though what happened with your other one?)

Ya, its not me. First, I don't wear glasses and second, while my hair can turn blond if I'm out in the sun alot, its mostly brown.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-18, 11:40 PM
It's not Silverraptor. And thank you, Eleanor! This is gonna be great! (Though what happened with your other one?)

The other one's not dead per say but I wasn't really getting a lot out of doing it because my comic making methods have changed too much along the way and I've realised that what I had in mind with it was kind of bigger than I can really manage in the immediate future - it's kind of a pivotal scene and I was getting very hung up on all the inconsistencies that were cropping up. If I get back to it I'll post the results but I think I'm happier writing my own scripts because then I'm not "messing up" someone else's scene - I kept getting in a tizz over things like choreography of the fight working out to what it was in the original and whether the background environments would work with the area of Aequar and all kinds of mess like that. It was going to be five pages long and I'd only really made a start on page 4*. I had a basic plan for page 5 but hadn't completely sorted out the layout yet.
The fancomic is set in an AU so I don't have to spoil my own fun by fretting about getting minutae like local flora and the seasons right. I don't know if there'll be an issue #2 though - the threads have enough speculation/ ridiculous "what if" scenarios for me to probably write a few more but finding time to make the comics is a whole 'nother matter. The idea was they'd pretty much all be set in off-panel time, this one is meant to be set pre-Kylie, in some possibly non-existent window of time between arriving at the Peakanes' and setting off for the conference... it only spans about 10-20 minutes of in-comic time though, unlike comic 24, so it's kind of easy to slot into continuity apart from the fact that the whole scenario's a little too OTT. The premise is kind of like a comic of a deleted scene/outtake that was cut from the real Murphy's Law for being too silly but could almost have taken place. I'm hoping I'll be able to go back and add shading/ effects/ tighter line work but at the moment I'm just a bit too slow for that...


Ya, its not me. First, I don't wear glasses and second, while my hair can turn blond if I'm out in the sun alot, its mostly brown.

Now that I actually think about it I'm pretty sure I've seen a stick figure self portrait of you somewhere on the forums that had brown hair... I'd say it was the gift art Coffee made for you where you're chatting up Saphrin and she... doesn't appreciate it, but I think that featured your avatar rather than you so... Eh.

*Took a look at the page four file and it's actually about 75% done - I just abandoned it because I was having doubts about whether I liked the panel layout. Perhaps I'll finish the cover-comic off for completionism sooner than I was thinking...

Silverraptor
2011-03-18, 11:54 PM
Now that I actually think about it I'm pretty sure I've seen a stick figure self portrait of you somewhere on the forums that had brown hair... I'd say it was the gift art Coffee made for you where you're chatting up Saphrin and she... doesn't appreciate it, but I think that featured your avatar rather than you so... Eh.

That was my avatar that was featured. I did do a self portrait picture of me and her for a birthday comic though.

Marnath
2011-03-19, 12:06 AM
That was my avatar that was featured. I did do a self portrait picture of me and her for a birthday comic though.

My search-fu is strong tonight. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8838557&postcount=44) :smallbiggrin:

It's not creepy that I immediately remembered what you meant and where that was posted, right?

Raging Gene Ray
2011-03-19, 12:52 AM
Oh, I don't know. Lyrical content aside, she could have a lovely singing voice.


Never mind...apparently, Discworld has its own Hedgehog Song...I thought she was referring to a much different Hedgehog Song.

Silverraptor
2011-03-19, 12:52 AM
My search-fu is strong tonight. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8838557&postcount=44) :smallbiggrin:

It's not creepy that I immediately remembered what you meant and where that was posted, right?

:smalleek:...

...Er, I mean, of course not... Heh heh...

...:smalleek:

Marnath
2011-03-19, 01:02 AM
:smalleek:...

...Er, I mean, of course not... Heh heh...

...:smalleek:

Don't worry, that was pretty much hyperbole. I mean, I remembered the thread title and such, but that's more due to having nothing better to do (I'm unemployed right now) and the fact that how well I remember a thing is inversely proportional to how relevant it is.:smallsmile:

*edit: and plus, it's not hard when birthdays were mentioned in context and a simple keyword search "Birthday, Coffeeincluded" gets you there.

Drakonzeta
2011-03-19, 08:30 AM
Actually, they would be human with slight elven characteristics. If Matt was an elf and they were married, the children would be elves with slight human characteristics.

Genetics... Don't... work... that... way....

In scenario I, any offspring would have 1/2 of a chance to be human, and 1/2 of a chance to be half-elves. In scenario II, offspring would have 1/2 chance to be elven, and 1/2 of a chance to be half-elven.

[/genetics]

Dusk Eclipse
2011-03-19, 09:04 AM
Genetics... Don't... work... that... way....

In scenario I, any offspring would have 1/2 of a chance to be human, and 1/2 of a chance to be half-elves. In scenario II, offspring would have 1/2 chance to be elven, and 1/2 of a chance to be half-elven.

[/genetics]

Those are real world genetics, perhaps in Aquear it is diffrent. :smallwink:

HypoSoc
2011-03-19, 09:38 AM
Genetics... Don't... work... that... way....

In scenario I, any offspring would have 1/2 of a chance to be human, and 1/2 of a chance to be half-elves. In scenario II, offspring would have 1/2 chance to be elven, and 1/2 of a chance to be half-elven.

[/genetics]
Genetics... Don't... work... that... way....

"Species" (used in the broadest of terms since procreation is possible so elves and humans are the same species) are not defined by a single allele variation. Each and every single characteristic has a half-chance to be either. From the ears, to sleep dependency, to constitution, each has a half chance to come from one or the other. This doesn't even count Dominant, Recessive and Partially Dominant genes that would allow for traits that are present in neither to occur, or the forced mutation that occurs in Meiosis.
[/genetics]

Lix Lorn
2011-03-19, 10:02 AM
Oh, I don't know. Lyrical content aside, she could have a lovely singing voice.

Also, if Serrin and Matt did get married and have kids, would they be Quarter-elves? :smalltongue:


Actually, they would be human with slight elven characteristics. If Matt was an elf and they were married, the children would be elves with slight human characteristics.


science!


Those are real world genetics, perhaps in Aquear it is diffrent. :smallwink:


SCIENCE!
Putting aside your wanton catgirl slaughtering, :smallfrown:, I believe in canonical d&d, half-elf isn't literal. A half-elf, quarter-elf, or eighth-elf, and etcetera to an unspecified amount of elfiness, all use the same rules.

Of course, Coffee can change anything she wants. xD

Drakonzeta
2011-03-19, 10:09 AM
Genetics... Don't... work... that... way....

"Species" (used in the broadest of terms since procreation is possible so elves and humans are the same species) are not defined by a single allele variation. Each and every single characteristic has a half-chance to be either. From the ears, to sleep dependency, to constitution, each has a half chance to come from one or the other. This doesn't even count Dominant, Recessive and Partially Dominant genes that would allow for traits that are present in neither to occur, or the forced mutation that occurs in Meiosis.
[/genetics]

That is completely true, but half elves are as generic as any race (Assuming any stat plusses or minuses are mutations). However, by real genetics, such a race would be widely varied. D&D uses simplified crossings, thus my idea was simplified. Goodness, if real genetics would be applied to half-elves, each one would be enormously different....

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-19, 10:21 AM
That is completely true, but half elves are as generic as any race (Assuming any stat plusses or minuses are mutations). However, by real genetics, such a race would be widely varied. D&D uses simplified crossings, thus my idea was simplified. Goodness, if real genetics would be applied to half-elves, each one would be enormously different....

How so? Phenotypicly anyway Elves aren't much more then tall thin humans with an extended life span and pointed ears...

...Really Elves are just white basketball players who happen to be members of greenpeace.

Silverraptor
2011-03-19, 10:30 AM
Okay, Gicko, Elves are on average a foot shorter than human's.

And for the other things, there is an actual rule in DnD about this. Children concieved by a half-elf and either one of the other species will result in the full blooded species. Meaning that in the game, the child would have all the same stats as the Human/Elf that is married with the Half-Elf. However, the child will have some characteristics of the other species as well. A human child may have slight tips at the ears as well as a slight elven apperance while the Elf child may have slightly rounded at the top ears and be slighlty taller than normal.

HalfTangible
2011-03-19, 10:34 AM
Genetics... Don't... work... that... way....

In scenario I, any offspring would have 1/2 of a chance to be human, and 1/2 of a chance to be half-elves. In scenario II, offspring would have 1/2 chance to be elven, and 1/2 of a chance to be half-elven.

[/genetics]

That's assuming 'half-elf' is a different species and genetics don't work THAT way in the real world either.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-19, 11:21 AM
Page two is "finished". :smallbiggrin:

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage2draft1-1.png

I'm having a lot of fun making this. :smallsmile:
More readable version can be found here. (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage2draft1.png)

I have no idea where Radic got the new clothes from. None.

Asta Kask
2011-03-19, 12:10 PM
SCIENCE!!!

It's actually even worse. Some traits may be expressed only if they come from the mother, and some traits may be expressed only if the came from the father. This is due to something called genomic imprinting which can 'tag' genes so they're not expressed. Different genes are tagged in mothers and fathers.

This is why mules and hinnys are different.

And catgirls are only killed if real-world physics is debated. Given Coffee's aversion to physics, this should probably be avoided.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-19, 12:34 PM
I think 1/4 elves and 3/4 elves are considered half-elves, in the Eberron campaign setting book, they got a half-elf born to an elf and a half-elf as a sample NPC.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-19, 12:54 PM
That's what I said but nobody listened. :smallfrown:
:smallbiggrin:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-19, 01:09 PM
That's what I said but nobody listened. :smallfrown:
:smallbiggrin:

Personally I like to go with half eles being incredibly varied and unpredictable and any mix of elves and humans being "hybrids" and it being an individual's opinion as to whether they're half elves or humans with elven relatives or whatever - like human nationality, basically. My understanding of d&d rules is that you can pretty much take 'em or leave 'em depending on your group and campaign anyway. As for Aequar half elves and their offspring.... yeah, we basically just have to make up our minds for ourselves until Coffee mentions anything about it.

Erm... not to be incredibly egocentric or anything, but did anybody notice the fancomic page I posted? It has a half elf in it...

Lix Lorn
2011-03-19, 01:10 PM
I liked it, but I forget where in the plot it's from. DXD

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-19, 01:11 PM
However, I think 1/8 elves are human and 7/8 elves are elf.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-19, 01:23 PM
It's an original scene so basically it didn't happen. The imaginary setting is pre-Kylie exposition though although at the same time possibly in a version of the Murphy's Law universe where Janine at least suspects Lloyd isn't straight? It's hypothetical off-panel/ free time time (maybe after the love potion debacle but before Saphrin's little friendly talk with the guys? in the end it's essentially irrevelent.) I wrote it and drew the base sketches very shortly after the following conversation:




RANDOM OFF THE WALL THEORY TO CREATE CONVERSATION

What would happen if (team member) was actually a shapeshifter?


Well Tinder is a shapeshifter, isn't he?


Janine might actually be able to get with Lloyd?


I meant shapeshifter like changeling. But I like Kyuubi's answer. :smalltongue:


It is possible for her to get with Lloyd assuming he is not strictly homosexual. Maybe if she changed a bit he would like her more.

At least how I see it, Lloyd might be like Lucas and Cadugan in Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic. [..] Just my thoughts on that.

Radic: Could go male to avoid the advances of Matt.
Matt: Not really sure, Maybe use it to escape law enforcement. I mean he did start out this comic clearly as a thief type.
Janine: Like Kyuubi said, she might go male (once Team Gale knows about Lloyd's sexual orientation) to attract his attention. But then there is what I said above that might mean she could get his attention as a female.
Tinder: I don't really know too much about how he thinks.
Lloyd: He could enter a more "traditional" relationship with Lexi but, as they are already together, they probably don't care too much about that.
Serrin: God (or Coffee) knows what goes on in her head to even guess how that might affect (or is it effect) how she acts.


She could get one of them false beards.


...
Someone arty draw this. Other than Coffee, she's busy. xD


I meant emotionally/mentally, though now that you mention it that sounds great.


I think Kyuubi was thinking that Janine could turn male, rather than turn into Lexi or someone.


Exactly. Maybe she'd turn into the guy from the old spice commercial?

Anybody in the mood to make a spoof of that?

Then life intervened until about yesterday and I couldn't do much about it. (An old spice commercial spoof would have been funny but I think I'm too lazy to do one for y'all).
Part one is on page 19 I think?

Lix Lorn
2011-03-19, 01:27 PM
Oooh, okay. (nodnod)

Asta Kask
2011-03-19, 04:41 PM
The first one looked like it was going in a lesbian direction. Very promising. :smallbiggrin:

SoupLadle
2011-03-19, 05:30 PM
Er... who's Kylie? :smallconfused:

HalfTangible
2011-03-19, 05:37 PM
Er... who's Kylie? :smallconfused:

V's mate...

...wait, that's Kyrie... was Kylie Serrin's mom?

RdMarquis
2011-03-19, 06:00 PM
Er... who's Kylie? :smallconfused:

She's the Drow merchant who recognized Lloyd as the man who killed her brother and led the attack on her village.

Silverraptor
2011-03-19, 06:08 PM
V's mate...

...wait, that's Kyrie... was Kylie Serrin's mom?

Serrin's mom is Saphrin.

SoupLadle
2011-03-19, 07:54 PM
She's the Drow merchant who recognized Lloyd as the man who killed her brother and led the attack on her village.
Oh, right. I'm usually better with names than this. :smallredface:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-19, 09:23 PM
Haha, I think I'm gonna enjoy this, Eleanor.

As for the genetics...I guess you should think of mixed-breed dogs. Except that in this case, most of the genes are codominant.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-20, 12:56 PM
The first one looked like it was going in a lesbian direction. Very promising. :smallbiggrin:

:smallconfused: [looks back at comic and sees perfectly platonic conversation between two women]
Huh.
[looks back at name of poster who claimed comic looked like it was going in a lesbian direction]
Ah.
Spot of wishful thinking there methinks, Asta. :smallamused:


She's the Drow merchant who recognized Lloyd as the man who killed her brother and led the attack on her village.

Thanks for this; I was going to link back to the comic that gave her name and then couldn't find it so it's probably an easier detail to forget than I first thought!


Haha, I think I'm gonna enjoy this, Eleanor.

As for the genetics...I guess you should think of mixed-breed dogs. Except that in this case, most of the genes are codominant.

Mixed-breed dogs was actually what I base my thoughts on what half-elves should be like -take the labradoodle for a popular example; supposedly you breed a lab and a poodle and you get a desperately willing to please, obedient and loyal dog (labrador characteristics, although our first lab was only willing to please herself, so this varies even within labs) which is very bright and has fur that does not cast and thus should be more suited to owners with mild allergies (poodle characteristics) but sometimes you just get a dumb stubborn dog who sheds like mad (the 'bad' characteristics of both - labs can be pretty smart but poodles are meant to be smarter and I can vouch for labs being heavy shedders from personal experience). I adore dogs of all shapes and sizes so if I can relate something back to dogs, or more specifically my own dogs or ones I walk for other people, I often will.

And I'm working on page three now so if I don't get too distracted I'll probably be posting it later tonight. In retrospect the pages would probably work best if I'd just waited and posted them all as links in one post, but I've started so I'll finish...

Asta Kask
2011-03-20, 05:24 PM
:smallconfused: [looks back at comic and sees perfectly platonic conversation between two women]
Huh.
[looks back at name of poster who claimed comic looked like it was going in a lesbian direction]
Ah.
Spot of wishful thinking there methinks, Asta. :smallamused:

You... honestly don't see how panel 2 and 3 could be misinterpreted? Perhaps I spend too much time in the Explicit section over at the SGU forums.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-20, 05:29 PM
You... honestly don't see how panel 2 and 3 could be misinterpreted? Perhaps I spend too much time in the Explicit section over at the SGU forums.

Hahaha. No, I did think when I finished that page that it gave off a kind of weird slash-fic vibe but I was hoping that was just me because I honestly didn't write it with that in mind :smallbiggrin: Should have known you'd have pointed it out if you were going to comment on it. :smalltongue: Thanks for taking the time to read it anyhoo!

EDITED TO ADD:

Page three is ready. :smalleek:

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage3draft1-1.png

I wasn't kidding when I said this thing wrote itself. The ideas just came to me a little faster than I was working - it was a bit of a CoffeeIncluded moment! (with admittedly weirder results)

Also, points to anybody who gets the name reference. Special imaginary internet points. If Coffee's online when this goes up I hope she'll get it at least...

Larger, clearer version is here (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage3draft1.png)

...And Asta? I wrote the plot and dialogue to all four pages of this a while ago, but I positioned Janine's left hand in panel 1 with you in mind. :smalltongue: (Still entirely U/PG content guys, no worries)

Lycan 01
2011-03-21, 12:47 AM
That mustache is amazing. O__O

Marnath
2011-03-21, 01:08 AM
Well, sometimes people like Janine only get that you mean "No!" if you stomp on them and their feelings much like he just did. That being said, it still makes you feel bad for having to hurt their feelings.:smallfrown:

So: aaaawwwww, poor Janine!

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-21, 05:26 AM
That mustache is amazing. O__O

Why, thank you! :smallbiggrin:

I'm fairly sure you'd need a not insignificant amount of product to support such a glorious 'tache without the aid of magic but hey ho... the glory of fantasy settings and cartoony styles...
(A tiny curlicue of the moustache is visible in page two if you look hard enough but I can't really see how it could have been the size it is now and not have been a little more visible from the back. I claim artistic lisence... unless it was still growing in page 2...?)

Well, sometimes people like Janine only get that you mean "No!" if you stomp on them and their feelings much like he just did. That being said, it still makes you feel bad for having to hurt their feelings.:smallfrown:

So: aaaawwwww, poor Janine!

Part of me thinks that this is indeed what she needs, although Lloyd's practically already done it in the real comic so... I dunno. I guess we've not really seen her come on to him strongly since the scene with Matt and the cookies though, have we? Can't remember.
It still comes across as rather harsh, particularly as in this scenario she wasn't even doing anything (apart from introducing him in terms that made it clear that she still "liked" him)... Ouch.:smallfrown:

Themrys
2011-03-21, 06:26 AM
Never mind...apparently, Discworld has its own Hedgehog Song...I thought she was referring to a much different Hedgehog Song.

You mean, she isn't going to sing the Discworld hedgehog song? :smallfrown:

And I was looking forward to finally find out what the lyrics are...

Asta Kask
2011-03-21, 09:19 AM
You mean, she isn't going to sing the Discworld hedgehog song? :smallfrown:

And I was looking forward to finally find out what the lyrics are...

The Hedgehog Song. (http://www.speakeasy.org/~mamandel/filks/Hedgehog.html)

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-21, 10:39 AM
You mean, she isn't going to sing the Discworld hedgehog song? :smallfrown:

And I was looking forward to finally find out what the lyrics are...


The Hedgehog Song. (http://www.speakeasy.org/~mamandel/filks/Hedgehog.html)

A very interesting link but I prefer to think of it as A Hedgehog Song (An Hedgehog Song? surely not? I'm not French!).



to all those people - and why not? - who, after the publication of Wyrd Sisters, deluged the author with their version of the words of 'The Hedgehog Song'. Deary deary me...


It's like Lewis Carroll's "Why is a raven like a writing desk?" the intended answer is basically whatever's the most amusing or logical conclusion for you personally as a reader. I'd be pretty disappointed with an "official definitive version" of The Hedgehog Song's lyric or the answer to the Mad Hatter's riddle, but seeing various people's thoughts on both is fun. (I'm a Pratchett lightweight so my knowledge of references to the song are limited. I've read... the first six or so Discworld novels and all his children's books? It's quite a vast series and I tend to need to concentrate more than usual to enjoy them). I think my favourite answer to the riddle is probably "Edgar Allan Poe wrote on both" but there's not an answer as far as I'm concerned and there's the fun of it.

But for those people (like my sister) who just feel that they have to know these things and get really frustrated when they can't, that link is a pretty dang good place to go - you can really see they put a lot of thought into it.

leakingpen
2011-03-21, 02:13 PM
Crituique on the bonus material. Its a bit loose, and run on. It FEELS like drunken self rambling, which just doesn't work in third person. I think it would be perfect if it were rewritten in first person as his actual thoughts.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-21, 02:35 PM
Critique on the bonus material. Its a bit loose, and run on. It FEELS like drunken self rambling, which just doesn't work in third person. I think it would be perfect if it were rewritten in first person as his actual thoughts.

You make a fair point but I don't know whether it would pose problems with Coffee's writing tutors or not. Third person that takes on many aspects of the first person is an established "literary voice" and is actually pretty popular in fiction generally. I personally quite like this approach but it's natural that plenty of people would prefer it if it were just first person - I don't think it would make me enjoy the content any more or less if it were third instead of third. If you want a popular example of a third person voice acting like the first person the first thing that springs to my mind is the Harry Potter series: they're written by a Scottish muggle in her thirties/forties, in the third person, but it's through Harry's English wizarding boarding student eyes that we read the vast majority of the story. The fact that Rowling used the pronoun "he" instead of "I" wasn't ever one of my problems with the series. (This technique is much older than Potter, it's just the first well known series that popped into my head for some reason).
Not trying to be perverse here, just adding another opinion.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-21, 07:08 PM
Guys, my internet is on the fritz. It should be back up in the next day or so, I really REALLY hope it is...

Raging Gene Ray
2011-03-21, 10:59 PM
You mean, she isn't going to sing the Discworld hedgehog song? :smallfrown:

And I was looking forward to finally find out what the lyrics are...

Asta Kask had the Discworld one, the much more popular one that I've never heard of.

I thought it was a reference to the rathergood version.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-23, 04:13 PM
Ugh, I've got no internet until WEDNESDAY... :furious:

Qwertystop
2011-03-23, 04:16 PM
Ugh, I've got no internet until WEDNESDAY... :furious:

How are you posting this?

HalfTangible
2011-03-23, 04:17 PM
How are you posting this?

Phone? i always do the really big faces on mah phone.

Qwertystop
2011-03-23, 04:20 PM
Phone? i always do the really big faces on mah phone.

Ah, my phone has just calls and texts. Why do you so the bigger ones on the phone? Just that it's shorter to type (ironic, that :smallconfused: takes more typing than :confused:).

HalfTangible
2011-03-23, 04:23 PM
Ah, my phone has just calls and texts. Why do you so the bigger ones on the phone? Just that it's shorter to type (ironic, that :smallconfused: takes more typing than :confused:).

basically, yeah =P

Silverraptor
2011-03-23, 05:05 PM
Ugh, I've got no internet until WEDNESDAY... :furious:

Who's your internet provider?

*Double checks automatic weapon inventory*

blackjack217
2011-03-23, 05:07 PM
Who's your internet provider?

*Double checks automatic weapon inventory*

You have automatic weapons? I just sic dinosaurs on my foes. :smallbiggrin:

Silverraptor
2011-03-23, 05:10 PM
You have automatic weapons? I just sic dinosaurs on my foes. :smallbiggrin:

4 words.

"Automatic Weapon Weilding Raptors"

Go ahead and say that 5 times fast

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-23, 05:11 PM
Ugh, I've got no internet until WEDNESDAY... :furious:

Feeling your pain there, man. (Although where I am, Wednesday is almost over so that seems weird just reading that now) Our internet connection is the pits. Usually it's too poor for video streaming which is unfortunate because when I was away in the big city that was how I watched most of my TV shows (official and perfectly legal streaming sites, no worries there).

Were you able to see page three of the fancomic by the way? I've kind of been holding back page four because I was curious to see if you had any comments. Will probably finish it up soon and post it when it's done anyway though.

Mystic Muse
2011-03-23, 05:13 PM
You have automatic weapons? I just sic dinosaurs on my foes. :smallbiggrin:

I just get my wife.

You don't mess with Tiamat

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-23, 05:21 PM
I'm in my mom's office. And yeah, I saw and liked.

Marnath
2011-03-23, 05:22 PM
Feeling your pain there, man.

Coffee is a girl, yo. :smallwink:


Were you able to see page three of the fancomic by the way? I've kind of been holding back page four because I was curious to see if you had any comments. Will probably finish it up soon and post it when it's done anyway though.

I for one think it's pretty cool. Looking forward to the last page.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-23, 05:42 PM
I'm in my mom's office. And yeah, I saw and liked.

Thanks!


Coffee is a girl, yo. :smallwink:


Can't really gauge how serious you're being there (my guess is that you know I know (that I'm not telling the truth) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Gced_Z_KU)) but I was aware, I'm just one of those people who insists on using "man, guys, and duuude" for gals as well as males. I kind of have a "thing"* about gender issues, (which is probably not evident at all in the theme of the fancomic I've been doing) pronouns and linguistics so I do this for kicks. :smallbiggrin:


I for one think it's pretty cool. Looking forward to the last page.

Huzzah! (Seriously though, thank you for compliments :smallsmile:)
It's pretty far along and I'd like to think the whole thing will be wrapped up in parallel with the genuine update on Friday (assuming Coffee meant this week's Wednesday and not next week's Wednesday and that she has time to make an update) but I'm very distractable so I couldn't make any promises.

Going to stop making posts that look like I'm fishing for praise now!

*The "thing" there being an interest in how society reacts to gender and not any sort of resent for men or women as groups, just to be clarify I'm not a raving sexist/chauvinist/mysogynist just a rather curious person.

TLMonkey
2011-03-24, 04:44 PM
It's a very nice comic, but is the fact that the last one's title is "Seven Drunken Strips" when there's actually 8 some sort of pun, taking they're drunk? I couldn't help but notice that, hehe...

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-24, 04:49 PM
It's a very nice comic, but is the fact that the last one's title is "Seven Drunken Strips" when there's actually 8 some sort of pun, taking they're drunk? I couldn't help but notice that, hehe...

Not impossible I guess but in general comic jargon "Seven Drunken Strips" is one strip with eight panels. I assumed the title was a reference to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Hb5nzwE4I) rather amusing song which I think came out in the 60s.
I'd sort of like to think we have six strips based on this arc to come now then something new as that's the closest to the title working literally that I can come up with. :smallbiggrin:

Ooh! And welcome to the thread by the way. :smallsmile:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-24, 04:56 PM
Not impossible I guess but in general comic jargon "Seven Drunken Strips" is one strip with eight panels. I assumed the title was a reference to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Hb5nzwE4I) rather amusing song which I think came out in the 60s.
I'd sort of like to think we have six strips based on this arc to come now then something new as that's the closest to the title working literally that I can come up with. :smallbiggrin:

Ooh! And welcome to the thread by the way. :smallsmile:

Yeah, that's the reference! And welcome, TLMonkey, and thanks for reading! :smallbiggrin:

TLMonkey
2011-03-24, 05:35 PM
In general comic jargon "Seven Drunken Strips" is one strip with eight panels.
Ooh! And welcome to the thread by the way. :smallsmile:

Really? I guess I'll have to Google the comic jargon, see what I can find! Thanks for the explanation!


And welcome, TLMonkey, and thanks for reading! :smallbiggrin:

And thanks to you, for drawing-writing-inkscaping (the one I use, don't know if you also do) this! But I think the best way to thank us readers is (I know most, if not all, of them are going to agree on this) to make another strip! :smallwink: Now, jokes aside, keep up the good work.

blackjack217
2011-03-24, 10:30 PM
New reader. Yay!

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-25, 04:06 PM
Guys, I don't know if I'll be able to finish today's update before I have to go home, where there's no internet. If this is the case, I can't update until tomorrow. Sorry.

Marnath
2011-03-25, 04:33 PM
Guys, I don't know if I'll be able to finish today's update before I have to go home, where there's no internet. If this is the case, I can't update until tomorrow. Sorry.

Don't stress out over it, we won't wither away and die if you can't get it done today. :smallsmile:

blackjack217
2011-03-25, 05:08 PM
Don't stress out over it, we won't wither away and die if you can't get it done today. :smallsmile:

After all happiness is mandatory.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-25, 05:09 PM
I can't update until late morning tomorrow. Sorry about that.

Herpestidae
2011-03-25, 05:13 PM
*cracks whip*

You will stop apologizing this instant, young lady. You are under absolutely no obligation to continue this comic, and should not feel bad for not putting it up. I, for one, will not hate you if you never made another comic again.

That being said, never stop making these.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-25, 05:18 PM
After all happiness is mandatory.

Murphy's Law 7: Happiness is mandatory.

blackjack217
2011-03-25, 05:29 PM
Murphy's Law 7: Happiness is mandatory.

Murpy's law 8: Failure to be happy is treason.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-25, 06:01 PM
Murphy's Law 9: Treason is Punishable By Death

Marnath
2011-03-25, 06:24 PM
After all happiness is mandatory.

I feel like I'm missing a reference.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-25, 06:26 PM
I believe Paranoia.

Silverraptor
2011-03-25, 06:29 PM
I believe Paranoia.

"How could you possibly know that? That's treason."

*Lasershot*

"Have a nice day."

Lycan 01
2011-03-25, 06:45 PM
How 'bout "Friendship is Magic" as the next thread title?

...

Sorry, been on a My Little Pony binge.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-25, 06:58 PM
"How could you possibly know that? That's treason."

*Lasershot*

"Have a nice day."
Shooting Lixxy is treason. Please report to the nearest suicide booth for termination. Have a nice day.

Marnath
2011-03-25, 07:02 PM
This isn't an RP thread, guys. :smallwink:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-25, 10:30 PM
I feel like I'm missing a reference.

Welcome to my world, Marnath. :smallbiggrin: (I have a very ecclectic sort of general knowledge but I seem to be ignorant on a surprising amount of contemporary pop culture...)

In other news, ML:The Fancomic of the Fancomic, "Issue 1"* is now finished.
Well, I'm hoping to do a bit of extra work on the pages now they're all done to make them look nicer (mostly some simple shading, tidying up and breaking down the garish solid-fill look) PM me if you have any suggestions on corrections I could make - I've seen a few things already but external critiques are usually helpful and here's not the place to go into stuff like composition etc. (but I think thoughts on character design is on topic enough so long as we don't get carried away?)

As usual, little page in spoiler:
http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage4draft1-1.png
...and bigger version here (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage4draft1.png).

I loved making this. :smallbiggrin: I'm beginning to wonder how/why I seem to end up drawing Lloyd and Janine both from the back more often than the front though and Janine always seems to dash about more than Serrin does when I draw her! (It must be a subconscious thing about her being Lloyd's spaniel.:smalltongue: Spaniels are always full o' beans... Did Shakespeare appreciate that? and I think I remembered to make S. fidget between every panel she appears in...)

I think page four was the most work post-story-boarding and I'm not entirely convinced it'll read as an ending and the last joke is maybe not obvious enough but I'm pleased with it overall as a personal project. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to work with a much bigger image size in future though and worry about scaling it down in future... pretty sure this "canvas" is too small, really.

For Coffee's extras compiling convenience I'll link the first three pages in this post too, if there's a problem with that though I'll happily remove them.
Page One (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage1draft1.png)
Page Two (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage2draft1.png)
Page Three (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/shapeshiftguestcomicpage3draft1.png)

*called Issue 1 because I like the sound of it more than because I'm definately planning to make this a series - I suspect I'll do at least one more but I'm quite unreliable, rather busy and haven't wrapped up the cover of #24 I was doing, so... We'll see.
PS: Coffee, I'm with everyone else, obviously. I'm happy to wait until you've got time to make and post the comic, as has been said it is your comic after all, and thanks for encouraging readers to do fanart too; it's good motivation for lazy artists like me!

Marnath
2011-03-25, 10:51 PM
I think you're right, it doesn't quite read as an ending. I don't know anything about story composition though so I couldn't possibly comment on whether or not you could do anything to improve on that. :smallsmile:

Overall I really like these though. Keep up the good work.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-25, 11:00 PM
I think you're right, it doesn't quite read as an ending. I don't know anything about story composition though so I couldn't possibly comment on whether or not you could do anything to improve on that. :smallsmile:

Overall I really like these though. Keep up the good work.

I tend to want to err on the side of subtlety when I'm writing (yeah, Raludean's* moustache is super subtle alright!) but I've not got a clear idea of what works for people who aren't me yet! Before I set the panel layout and everything I was trying to decide to end it where I ended it or have a shot of the potion on a shelf in Serrin's grandparents' shop as the last panel but I went with the former because I was worried the latter might be over-egging it. Later on I decided the second option would probably have been a more conclusive closing panel but then I was too lazy to reorganise it... :smallsigh:
Thanks for your input!

*If the name "Raludean" baffles anyone, taking a look through Coffee's bonus art on the first page might clear things up. :smallwink:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-26, 09:05 AM
Yeah, it doesn't feel like an ending either, but thanks! And yeah, of course I get Raludean. :smallbiggrin:

Anywho, update time!

#123: Infirvention
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/Infirvention.png

There were so many puns I could have used for this comic title: Firball, Cat's Got Her Tongue, Averting A Catastrophe, Afirting A Catastrophe...:smallbiggrin:

Lord Raziere
2011-03-26, 09:32 AM
that comic was......random....

hrm....what was that about at the end? I'm confused.

Silverraptor
2011-03-26, 09:36 AM
About time Fir intervined.:smallamused: And trust me, you guys do NOT want to know what she was about to say at the end.

Lord Raziere
2011-03-26, 09:45 AM
Why don't we wanna know?

HalfTangible
2011-03-26, 09:46 AM
About time Fir intervined.:smallamused: And trust me, you guys do NOT want to know what she was about to say at the end.

You... know what they did with the marmalade?! :smalleek: Just how intimate are you with these characters?!?!

Silverraptor
2011-03-26, 09:47 AM
You... know what they did with the marmalade?! :smalleek: Just how intimate are you with these characters?!?!

Almost Co-Author. Honestly, that should explain it all.:smalltongue:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-26, 09:49 AM
You... know what they did with the marmalade?! :smalleek: Just how intimate are you with these characters?!?!


Almost Co-Author. Honestly, that should explain it all.:smalltongue:

I don't know for sure what they did with the marmalade.

Lord Raziere
2011-03-26, 09:58 AM
Wait a minute, who is Rolf? I don't remember any Rolf being mentioned earlier....

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-26, 10:00 AM
Wait a minute, who is Rolf? I don't remember any Rolf being mentioned earlier....

Naevarolf. Green-haired, dark-skinned elf we've seen in a couple of flashbacks. Serrin's friend and ex-boyfriend.

HalfTangible
2011-03-26, 10:04 AM
Almost Co-Author. Honestly, that should explain it all.:smalltongue:

That doesn't mean you go and find out everything they do in their private lives! Hell, i just write '[He] had [blank] with [her]' and move on to more important details!

Lord Raziere
2011-03-26, 10:07 AM
I don't remember any flashbacks with the Rolf in em....but hey your the author...

HalfTangible
2011-03-26, 10:08 AM
I don't remember any flashbacks with the Rolf in em....but hey your the author...

The one with the revamp of the drinking policy.

Lord Raziere
2011-03-26, 10:11 AM
ah, now I see. weird, wonder why I didn't remember that.

oh well.

blackjack217
2011-03-26, 10:40 AM
... Wow, that is how a familiar should be used.

Marnath
2011-03-26, 12:38 PM
It's funny that she keeps talking, or trying to talk at least, even as there is a full grown cat hanging from her tongue. She must be really wasted. :smalltongue:

Ninjaman
2011-03-26, 12:57 PM
... Wow, that is how a familiar should be used.

Yea propperbly the best use i haven seen for like... ever.

Volthawk
2011-03-26, 01:13 PM
Didn't they say the Divine Vow takes 72 hours? So if they've done it now, that means Serrin and Matt have been drinking and singing for that long? :smalleek:

Asta Kask
2011-03-26, 01:37 PM
Almost Co-Author. Honestly, that should explain it all.:smalltongue:


I don't know for sure what they did with the marmalade.

Clearly Silverraptor has fantasies about Serrin.

*beat*

Feels good I'm not the only one.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-26, 03:02 PM
Clearly Silverraptor has fantasies about Serrin.

*beat*

Feels good I'm not the only one.


"Beat" Is probably not the best word you could have put there:smallamused:

Herpestidae
2011-03-26, 03:21 PM
Affirmative Action.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-26, 07:11 PM
Love the comic. xD

Also, love Serrin in the last two panels of the fan fancomic!
...and in every panel ever of the fancomic. xD

Orzel
2011-03-26, 07:30 PM
Who as 2 thumbs and just read the whole thing?

Not me
I have 4 thumbs
Wait...

1....2...

Okay, I guess it is me.
Good stuff.
Marmalade stories. They are great. I got 3.

Devmaar
2011-03-26, 10:18 PM
Didn't they say the Divine Vow takes 72 hours? So if they've done it now, that means Serrin and Matt have been drinking and singing for that long? :smalleek:

No, it just leaves those who take part unable to cast for 72 hours.

RdMarquis
2011-03-27, 01:55 AM
Now I wish I had a cat that keeps my from embarrassing myself. Come to think of it, a familiar in general would be good.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-27, 02:17 AM
I just want a cat.
Play the spore games

Qwertystop
2011-03-27, 07:31 AM
I just want a cat.
Play the spore games

What's with your whitetext? Completely irrelevant.

Asta Kask
2011-03-27, 08:59 AM
Now I wish I had a cat that keeps my from embarrassing myself. Come to think of it, a familiar in general would be good.

I can't imagine my cat stepping in to stop me from embarrassing myself. Embarrassing him, on the other hand...

Mark's karaoke song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM)

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-27, 03:42 PM
I can't imagine my cat stepping in to stop me from embarrassing myself. Embarrassing him, on the other hand...

Mark's karaoke song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM)

That link lead me to watching a short youtube serise about a rabit and a bunny falling in love in a society that frowns upon it... so thank you:smallbiggrin:
playthesporegames

Qwertystop
2011-03-27, 04:20 PM
That link lead me to watching a short youtube serise about a rabit and a bunny falling in love in a society that frowns upon it... so thank you:smallbiggrin:
playthesporegames

Again, what's with your whitetext? Even more irrelevant.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-27, 05:39 PM
No, it just leaves those who take part unable to cast for 72 hours.

Yeah. Which...Not good timing. :smalleek:

Volthawk
2011-03-27, 05:41 PM
No, it just leaves those who take part unable to cast for 72 hours.


Yeah. Which...Not good timing. :smalleek:

Ah, right. Yeah, I can see how this could screw things up nicely.

Silverraptor
2011-03-27, 09:09 PM
Clearly Silverraptor has fantasies about Serrin.

*beat*

Feels good I'm not the only one.

*Drops off the edge of an active volcano*

Never...Say...That...Again...:smallmad:
Serrin is almost like a daughter to me.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-27, 09:26 PM
*Drops off the edge of an active volcano*

Never...Say...That...Again...:smallmad:
Serrin is almost like a daughter to me.

Well if you consider the human bard guy yourself, then she IS your daugter... and your the protective dad XD play the spore games

Lix Lorn
2011-03-28, 03:30 AM
*Drops off the edge of an active volcano*

Never...Say...That...Again...:smallmad:
Serrin is almost like a daughter to me.
What about Serrin's brother? Are fantasies about him okay?

Asta Kask
2011-03-28, 05:24 AM
I think it's okay to fantasize about Serrin and her brother. Implying that Coffee or SilverRaptor fantasizes about them... not so much.

Let's face it, Serrin's not exactly a pristine virgin, nor is her brother (I guess). They seem to have a healthy, vigorous sex drive and enjoy exercising it.

Edit: Oh, and Gicko, please. It's getting annoying. If people aren't sucked in by your signature, they're not likely to be sucked in by invisible text.

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-29, 07:03 PM
Let's face it, Serrin's not exactly a pristine virgin, nor is her brother (I guess). They seem to have a healthy, vigorous sex drive and enjoy exercising it.

Yeah. And honestly, that's deliberate. You've got to admit, the whole "The bubbly, effervescent, cheerful girl is a virgin" thing is so common that it's kinda annoying after a while. At least, I think it is. I kinda like to be more realistic. Besides, Serrin's 41. 42 in a month or so.


Edit: Oh, and Gicko, please. It's getting annoying. If people aren't sucked in by your signature, they're not likely to be sucked in by invisible text.

Agreed.


I think it's okay to fantasize about Serrin and her brother. Implying that Coffee or SilverRaptor fantasizes about them... not so much.
Allow me to respond in the following fashion: :yuk::yuk::yuk:

HalfTangible
2011-03-29, 07:07 PM
... That's... Disturbing :eek: shouldn't she still be too young?

I mean sure, she's half elf but...

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-29, 07:09 PM
... That's... Disturbing :eek: shouldn't she still be too young?

I mean sure, she's half elf but...

No, in human terms she's in her early-mid 20s, same as the rest of the cast.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-29, 07:12 PM
Ehh that’s really an inevitability of having a character online, someone is going to fantasize about them eventually. just look at all the Haley fanboys out there.
Return to your fun citizens! There is no subliminal advertising! Enjoy Gencola! -Gencorp social services

Silverraptor
2011-03-29, 07:33 PM
Allow me to respond in the following fashion: :yuk::yuk::yuk:

My reaction as well.

HalfTangible
2011-03-29, 07:43 PM
No, in human terms she's in her early-mid 20s, same as the rest of the cast.

... Oh.

...

The first time i played a half-elf, i made him a teenager/young adult at 111.

And now i know he was in his relative sixties, actively flirting with members of the party that i thought were at a relatively older age than him (early/mid twenties) one of them in a joking manner and the other in a very real fake relationship.

THAT'S creepy.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-29, 07:49 PM
... Oh.

...

The first time i played a half-elf, i made him a teenager/young adult at 111.

And now i know he was in his relative sixties, actively flirting with members of the party that i thought were at a relatively older age than him (early/mid twenties) one of them in a joking manner and the other in a very real fake relationship.

THAT'S creepy.

You need to pay more attention to the aging tables.

HalfTangible
2011-03-29, 07:56 PM
You need to pay more attention to the aging tables.

First time i played a half-elf was my first time with dnd. I didn't even know established age tables existed...

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-29, 08:03 PM
First time i played a half-elf was my first time with dnd. I didn't even know established age tables existed...

I knew where the aging tables were before the first session I ever played. I also knew where the height and weight tables were.

And if you didn't know they existed, why did you know the elf's teenager age?

HalfTangible
2011-03-29, 08:07 PM
I knew where the aging tables were before the first session I ever played. I also knew where the height and weight tables were.

And if you didn't know they existed, why did you know the elf's teenager age?

I didn't. :smallconfused: When did i say that?

I know the age NOW, mind, but not when i first played the game.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-03-29, 08:17 PM
I didn't. :smallconfused: When did i say that?

I know the age NOW, mind, but not when i first played the game.

Well, you said the age was 111, that's a bit below minimum elf starting age.

HalfTangible
2011-03-29, 09:57 PM
Well, you said the age was 111, that's a bit below minimum elf starting age.


I knew where the aging tables were before the first session I ever played. I also knew where the height and weight tables were.

And if you didn't know they existed, why did you know the elf's teenager age?

Where did i say i knew THAT :smallannoyed:

Marnath
2011-03-30, 12:29 AM
Guys, play nice. :smallsmile:

Asta Kask
2011-03-30, 06:39 AM
... That's... Disturbing :eek: shouldn't she still be too young?

I mean sure, she's half elf but...

I'm of the Roman Polanski school of thought - "if there's grass on the field, it's legal to play."

(and yes, that's a joke)

HalfTangible
2011-03-30, 07:28 AM
I'm of the Roman Polanski school of thought - "if there's grass on the field, it's legal to play."

(and yes, that's a joke)

... That analogy is kinda hard to follow because that's not at all how sports fields work :smallconfused:

leakingpen
2011-03-30, 11:28 AM
I'm of the Roman Polanski school of thought - "if there's grass on the field, it's legal to play."

(and yes, that's a joke)

If there's grass on the field, play ball. If there's not, play in the mud.

Lix Lorn
2011-03-30, 11:29 AM
If there's grass on the field, play ball. If there's not, play in the mud.
That's both hilarious and really, really wrong. :smallbiggrin::smalleek::smallfrown::smallmad:

Marnath
2011-03-30, 12:20 PM
... That analogy is kinda hard to follow because that's not at all how sports fields work :smallconfused:

...Pubic hair. 'Play in the mud' should be self-explanatory.

HalfTangible
2011-03-30, 12:25 PM
...Pubic hair. 'Play in the mud' should be self-explanatory.

... "You don't wanna know."

That's all you had to say.

Hell, you could've played along with the joke :smallannoyed:

"Next you're gonna tell me you can't get rid of a disease by killing the patient."

Marnath
2011-03-30, 12:31 PM
... "You don't wanna know."

That's all you had to say.

Hell, you could've played along with the joke :smallannoyed:

"Next you're gonna tell me you can't get rid of a disease by killing the patient."

I mistook your confusion for an inquiry. Oh well, now you know and knowing is half the battle! G.I. Joe!
On topic, I just noticed the yellow words behind the kids, what does that say?

HalfTangible
2011-03-30, 12:46 PM
I mistook your confusion for an inquiry. Oh well, now you know and knowing is half the battle! G.I. Joe!
On topic, I just noticed the yellow words behind the kids, what does that say?

I said that your analogy was hard to follow, not that i cared where it was going T.T

I think they say Jon Good Loves You... or something =/

Asta Kask
2011-03-30, 01:29 PM
Ok, I didn't intend for my Polanski joke to go that far (although it gratifies my ego).

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-30, 05:59 PM
On topic, I just noticed the yellow words behind the kids, what does that say?

[squints at yellow words]

...yeah I'm getting the same as HalfTangible there.

[pauses and does a double take at the first panel]

....Alastair: am I crazy or did that name come up in the piece of writing from one of the spin offs that Coffee did which was largely about eating noodles on a grave?
....can't it be both? (Or neither?)

Edit:

[makes use of the "search" function]
Am I just a terrible judge of character?
Also, how close in time to Murphy's Law is the prequel? I seem to remember reading they would be taking place at very similar times possibly even with some overlap...?
Ugh. So much for my speculation...

CoffeeIncluded
2011-03-30, 06:40 PM
[squints at yellow words]

...yeah I'm getting the same as HalfTangible there.

[pauses and does a double take at the first panel]

....Alastair: am I crazy or did that name come up in the piece of writing from one of the spin offs that Coffee did which was largely about eating noodles on a grave?
....can't it be both? (Or neither?)

Edit:

[makes use of the "search" function]
Am I just a terrible judge of character?
Also, how close in time to Murphy's Law is the prequel? I seem to remember reading they would be taking place at very similar times possibly even with some overlap...?
Ugh. So much for my speculation...

Jon Good Loves You; it's a bit of an inside joke. The prequel, Roleplaying Experience? It takes place over a span of 20 years or so, ending right at the start of Murphy's Law proper. The sequel, Masters of Aequar? Takes place about nine years after the end of Murphy's Law.

And by judge of character, what do you mean and what are you thinking?

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-03-30, 07:14 PM
Jon Good Loves You; it's a bit of an inside joke. The prequel, Roleplaying Experience? It takes place over a span of 20 years or so, ending right at the start of Murphy's Law proper. The sequel, Masters of Aequar? Takes place about nine years after the end of Murphy's Law.

And by judge of character, what do you mean and what are you thinking?

Hum.

Well by judge of character I meant that I thought the cleric character who just appeared in Murphy's Law was genuine and would become some sort of foil for Janine that we'd come back to later, but this most recent update has Cyrus calling him "Uncle Alistair". The Alistair in the piece of writing with the noodles comes across as being... really not too nice... and thus if they were the same character I'd probably have got things a bit wrong with my guesswork. Another thing about the extract you posted in the fourth thread is that Alistair thinks about a boy and a girl and a sacrifice and there being not one but two and the girl being more cautious than the boy. If it were near enough to the end of the prequel the boy and girl could have been Cyrus and Lucille although they look like they're meant to be pretty young to me so it could be that they weren't really viable candidates for those roles...
Also it kind of read like the albino guy might have been the boy... or like he was trying to protect the kids... too little to go on.

Basically: not really sure what to think. I got the impression of someone at least slightly older than the cleric when I read the extract the first time though. I guess it could be a family name. Or they could be the same. Or you could have changed the names as you developed the plot more. Or they could be different characters with the same name by coincidence. Or it could be an elaborate ruse....

[/stumped]

RdMarquis
2011-03-30, 10:17 PM
Or it could be an elaborate ruse....

Speaking of which, maybe the point of Janine's encounter was to get her to make the Divine Vow. Alistair's goal could have been removing her ability to cast magic, not killing Lucille and Cyrus. If he is a villain, I imagine him to be an honorable sort who wouldn't hurt a couple of kids, but would deprive someone of magic at a crucial moment. Or maybe it was the goal of someone the party hasn't run into yet.

Silverraptor
2011-03-30, 10:23 PM
Speaking of which, maybe the point of Janine's encounter was to get her to make the Divine Vow. Alistair's goal could have been removing her ability to cast magic, not killing Lucille and Cyrus. If he is a villain, I imagine him to be an honorable sort who wouldn't hurt a couple of kids, but would deprive someone of magic at a crucial moment. Or maybe it was the goal of someone the party hasn't run into yet.

Or it could've been a freak coincidence and some big bad decides to make his move within those next 72 hours without any knowledge of the Divine Vow.
...
>.>
<.<
...

Mystic Muse
2011-03-30, 10:42 PM
Or it could've been a freak coincidence and some big bad decides to make his move within those next 72 hours without any knowledge of the Divine Vow.
...
>.>
<.<
...

I think you should give up. It doesn't look like anybody here wants to listen.

HalfTangible
2011-03-30, 10:44 PM
Or it could've been a freak coincidence and some big bad decides to make his move within those next 72 hours without any knowledge of the Divine Vow.*snort* Something happening that is extremely helpful to the villian by pure cosmic coincidence? Lunacy! =O


Slightly less silly:
Silver, do you know why Chekov's gun always fires? Because you were told it was loaded

While everyday life is full of mundane, useless things that are just there to be there and are really unimportant to what you're doing at the time, everything put into a book or comic is there for a purpose, ranging from scene setting (the sounds of seagulls in a port) to making you laugh (marmalade on the kitchen table)

The divine vow may have been there just to show an aspect of Janine's character, but considering how long it's going to last, it's probably going to come up for some other purpose.

RdMarquis
2011-03-31, 12:49 AM
Well, I'm just guessing, here. For all I know, the only thing that could come of that vow is a gag based on the trials and tribulations of a character who has suddenly become something very like a superhero without the powers.

Draconi Redfir
2011-03-31, 07:58 AM
Well, I'm just guessing, here. For all I know, the only thing that could come of that vow is a gag based on the trials and tribulations of a character who has suddenly become something very like a superhero without the powers.

Are you saying Jannine has become Batman?

Cizak
2011-03-31, 12:45 PM
Hm, has it already been 72 hours? And those two are still in the bar?

Silverraptor
2011-03-31, 03:19 PM
Hm, has it already been 72 hours? And those two are still in the bar?

No. It just jumped back as a "Meanwhile, back in drunk'sville". The spell itself doesn't take 72 hours to cast, it just you can't cast any spells afterwards for 72 hours.

leakingpen
2011-04-01, 10:21 AM
... "You don't wanna know."

That's all you had to say.

Hell, you could've played along with the joke :smallannoyed:

"Next you're gonna tell me you can't get rid of a disease by killing the patient."

Actually, I'm reading an online web novel (Tales of Mu), in which certain diseases are cured by a potion that temporarily makes you undead, since, if your dead, the disease no longer can live in you. (it also makes a great morning after pill, apparently)

HalfTangible
2011-04-01, 10:52 AM
Actually, I'm reading an online web novel (Tales of Mu), in which certain diseases are cured by a potion that temporarily makes you undead, since, if your dead, the disease no longer can live in you. (it also makes a great morning after pill, apparently)

It was an 8 bit theatre reference :tongue: Used as justification for global genocide

CoffeeIncluded
2011-04-01, 02:49 PM
Update later tonight. Owlbears are involved.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-04-01, 03:55 PM
Update later tonight. Owlbears are involved.

Oh owlbears... you and your succinct summary (offered by your very name) of all that is baffling in traditional d&d genetics....

Dusk Eclipse
2011-04-01, 05:22 PM
Update+Owlbears=Happy Dusk :smallbiggrin:

Strife Warzeal
2011-04-01, 05:30 PM
I really want to know how an owlbear will be related to something happening in the strip. I'm thinking drunken shenanigans. Anyone else have a guess?

Can't wait for the update to find out.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-04-01, 05:35 PM
I really want to know how an owlbear will be related to something happening in the strip. I'm thinking drunken shenanigans. Anyone else have a guess?

Can't wait for the update to find out.

For some reason I am thinking on something along the lines an X, an X and an Owlbear enter a bar and .....

Or maybe Serrin polymorphing into an owlbear...

CoffeeIncluded
2011-04-01, 05:54 PM
Update time!

#124: Not So Much Singing As Screaming
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/NotSoMuchSingingAsScreaming.png

And as for the owlbear...Check the date.:smalltongue:

Hiro Protagonest
2011-04-01, 05:56 PM
There aren't any owlbear references in that.

... Oh, now I get it.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-04-01, 05:56 PM
:smallfrown: .... stupid April's fool.. it isn't even celebrated in my country!!!

Well coffee I demand* a strip with an owlbear!!!!




*(read request)

Marnath
2011-04-01, 06:14 PM
Why is Fir going back into the bar?

Dusk Eclipse
2011-04-01, 06:19 PM
Why is Fir going back into the bar?

Dunno, perhaps he is going in to exact bloody revenge on the thrice cursed Dwarven Ale and/or Dwarven Whiskey? [/hopeful]

GreenMuffin
2011-04-01, 11:05 PM
oh Coffee, you tricksy little devil. :smalltongue:

HalfTangible
2011-04-01, 11:57 PM
"It could be carried by a Kagoan swallow!"

RdMarquis
2011-04-02, 01:32 AM
There's just something adorable about a little spellcasting kitty blowing its top over its owner's drunken behavior. :smallbiggrin:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-04-02, 06:45 AM
Aaaoooh, Coffee. You are tricksy aren't you?

The funny thing is I actually wondered earlier in the day if you would do anything April foolsy since an update was due if you could manage it. I concluded that you took the comic too seriously to do a joke strip instead of an update so I figured you wouldn't.


But you did! (do something for April Fools, not a joke strip) [sulks about being "got"] I think one of the reasons April Fools joke failed to suggest itself until your reveal was because it's traditionally a morning thing and it was night time for me when you said it... Yeah, that'll be it. I'm not gullible ever :smallbiggrin:

And this week's strip was particularly good, in my opinion. Tinder's so resigned to Team Gale's antics... :smallamused:

TLMonkey
2011-04-02, 11:06 AM
Oh, there is the mandatory Monty Python reference when talking about coconuts... :smallwink: Good they've stopped drinking, though. I think neither of them'd have wanted to end with cirrhosis...:smalltongue: Now, now, in spite of looking like an idiot, I've got to ask... what's that "Hedgehog Song"?

Asta Kask
2011-04-02, 12:23 PM
A Terry Pratchett reference, containing all the way a person can have sex with all animals except the hedgehog. A google search should provide ample explanation.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-04-02, 01:55 PM
Oh, there is the mandatory Monty Python reference when talking about coconuts... :smallwink: Good they've stopped drinking, though. I think neither of them'd have wanted to end with cirrhosis...:smalltongue: Now, now, in spite of looking like an idiot, I've got to ask... what's that "Hedgehog Song"?

[looks up "cirrhosis" in a dictionary]
Indeed. Liver damage = bad!
Seriously though, this strip was "good" because the drunks were fictional enough for me to find it funny and it was acknowledged within the strip that drunk ≠ hilarious + harmless. Or at least not always.
I thought "could a bird carry a coconut?" sounded vaguely familiar, I just couldn't place it... really need to work my way through this Python stuff, I know it's funny and the references... the references are omnipresent! But I've only got so much time to watch tv etc. :smallsigh:


A Terry Pratchett reference, containing all the way a person can have sex with all animals except the hedgehog. A google search should provide ample explanation.

You could also find out a fair bit about it by sifting thrugh this thread. It's come up off and on since it was first mentioned in the comic. Obviously there's a lot of other banter in between, mind. :smallbiggrin:

Marnath
2011-04-02, 02:02 PM
You could also find out a fair bit about it by sifting thrugh this thread. It's come up off and on since it was first mentioned in the comic. Obviously there's a lot of other banter in between, mind. :smallbiggrin:

And if you don't want to spend the rest of the day sifting through all the chatter, the gist of it was me asking what the Hedgehog song was, lyrics plz:smalltongue:and everyone telling me that it wasn't board appropriate to list them here. :smallwink:

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-04-02, 03:39 PM
And if you don't want to spend the rest of the day sifting through all the chatter, the gist of it was me asking what the Hedgehog song was, lyrics plz:smalltongue:and everyone telling me that it wasn't board appropriate to list them here. :smallwink:

true,
+ Asta Kask linked a fan produced extensive version of the lyrics of the song Coffee's refering to with annotations and I think a suggested musical score/ enough information to help you track one down a version you could listen to on youtube
+ I left a quotation about the piece by the author who inspired it
+ Somebody else mentioned another Hedgehog Song that they thought it might have been a reference to (except it wasn't)

in other words, the subject was discussed at some length and said discussion was reasonably diverting. Or I thought it was, anyway [glances down at signature].Worth a look if you have the spare time on your hands? (I'm on a year out myself so most of my time is "spare time" I just have a lot of stuff I need/ want to do in it)
Google is your friend too, mind. :smallbiggrin:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-04-03, 06:08 PM
I actually made up these lyrics myself. Except for the giraffe one.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-04-03, 07:00 PM
I actually made up these lyrics myself. Except for the giraffe one.

I assumed you would have but I've not read enough discworld to know for sure yet (I think I've read ...[counts on fingers] maybe six of 'em, excluding The Amazing Maurice and the Tiffany Aching series, honestly I feel thick saying it but the adult books usually go faster than my reading brain does, I'm dyslexic so it's a bit tricky) I also only gave the lyrics Asta linked a cursorary glance so can't remember. It all sounds about right though, so ...well done? :smallbiggrin:

Does the coconuts song count as a Lion King reference or is it mostly me that associates it with Zazu very strongly? I know it's older than LK because the Muppets did it in a skit once...

Also, is Fir a boy-cat or a girl-cat? I lean towards the former but can never remember, I also have roughly a 50% chance of being wrong either way... But my mind's made Fir sound like Rowan Atkinson now... :smalleek:

CoffeeIncluded
2011-04-03, 07:08 PM
I assumed you would have but I've not read enough discworld to know for sure yet (I think I've read ...[counts on fingers] maybe six of 'em, excluding The Amazing Maurice and the Tiffany Aching series, honestly I feel thick saying it but the adult books usually go faster than my reading brain does, I'm dyslexic so it's a bit tricky) I also only gave the lyrics Asta linked a cursorary glance so can't remember. It all sounds about right though, so ...well done? :smallbiggrin:

Does the coconuts song count as a Lion King reference or is it mostly me that associates it with Zazu very strongly? I know it's older than LK because the Muppets did it in a skit once...

Also, is Fir a boy-cat or a girl-cat? I lean towards the former but can never remember, I also have roughly a 50% chance of being wrong either way... But my mind's made Fir sound like Rowan Atkinson now... :smalleek:

Thank you! The coconut song isn't a Lion King reference, but I definitely know where you're coming from! :smallbiggrin:

And Fir's a girl. Who's Rowan Atkinson?

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-04-03, 07:17 PM
Thank you! The coconut song isn't a Lion King reference, but I definitely know where you're coming from! :smallbiggrin:

And Fir's a girl. Who's Rowan Atkinson?

Instantly I feel less guilty about failing on my Monty Python knowledge. :smallbiggrin:

Rowan Atkinson is the man behind Mr Bean and Edmund Blackadder and voice of Zazu the hornbill in the first disney Lion King film.

Edited to Add: And you could also have heard of him from the film Johnny English... if you do know who he is, you'll realise it's kind of odd to imagine a female cat to sound like him...

Draconi Redfir
2011-04-04, 08:34 AM
Instantly I feel less guilty about failing on my Monty Python knowledge. :smallbiggrin:

Rowan Atkinson is the man behind Mr Bean and Edmund Blackadder and voice of Zazu the hornbill in the first disney Lion King film.

Edited to Add: And you could also have heard of him from the film Johnny English... if you do know who he is, you'll realise it's kind of odd to imagine a female cat to sound like him...

wait... Mr. bean is Zazu?

Lycan 01
2011-04-04, 09:06 AM
I searched very hard for that stinkin' Owlbear. :smalltongue:

Zanaril
2011-04-05, 01:07 PM
wait... Mr. bean is Zazu?
...Oh gods, you're right. How did I never notice that?

Watching the Lion King will hever be the same again.

Asta Kask
2011-04-05, 01:40 PM
Listen closely... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXs8OS6EdAE)

Although my favorite is Be Prepared. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ6cw_MuTDE)

HalfTangible
2011-04-05, 02:42 PM
Listen closely... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXs8OS6EdAE)

Although my favorite is Be Prepared. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ6cw_MuTDE)

Mine's a tie between Be Prepared and My Lullaby

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-04-05, 05:26 PM
Mine's a tie between Be Prepared and My Lullaby

I used to think "My Lullaby" was "My Little Boy" for quite a time... it's rather dark, but I suppose so is Be Prepared, Scar's just so much more sophisticated than silly ol-- topic? What's that? we're talking about a webcomic? Oop. Sorry guys.:smallredface:

I guess the real question is, does a drunken Serrin sound more like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vifVEg7NepI&feature=related), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1AE9mwEwM4) or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf670orHKcA&feature=related)? (I hope for the rest of Team Gale's sake she doesn't go for the high notes of the Merv Griffin one, ouch!) :smallbiggrin:
Given that the second one's the only one with a female voice in there (presumably because it's also the only one to feature multiple singers and part of the song refers to a wife (the idol of a life)?) one might imagine it to be the closest match I suppose. To that I say: "Eh".

CoffeeIncluded
2011-04-08, 04:56 PM
Aww, where did everyone go? :smallfrown: Doesn't matter; even if everyone stops reading this comic, I'll still update!

#125: Here She Comes To Save The Day
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/HereSheComesToSaveTheDay.png

Mystic Muse
2011-04-08, 04:58 PM
That's a pretty nice familiar.

super dark33
2011-04-08, 05:00 PM
An ENTIRE blue-fin tuna?
wow.

Lix Lorn
2011-04-08, 05:09 PM
Fir is the BEST.

Draconi Redfir
2011-04-08, 05:14 PM
Fir is the BEAST.

Fixed that for you.

Qwertystop
2011-04-08, 05:21 PM
TWO scrolls? Wow.

Mystic Muse
2011-04-08, 05:26 PM
TWO scrolls? Wow.

Matt got drunk too remember?

Qwertystop
2011-04-08, 05:27 PM
Matt got drunk too remember?

Oh, right. didn't think Serrin was quite drunk enough to break the spell description.

Silverraptor
2011-04-08, 05:27 PM
Yup. Fir is pretty badass, if I do say so myself.

Eleanor_Rigby
2011-04-08, 05:29 PM
Yay spell casting kitty!

I think that last panel's probably going to be a long lasting favourite of mine. :smallbiggrin:

HalfTangible
2011-04-08, 06:33 PM
What onecount was radic referring to?

Symmys
2011-04-08, 06:43 PM
Wow, Fir can be intimidating.