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theonesin
2011-02-02, 11:34 PM
So I want to make a Warforged character, but the class has no armor proficiencies. This made me think that if I took say, Adamantine Body, I would have to take twice the armor check penalty to my skills (equaling -10). But I've been reading in a few places that this isn't the case, and you only take -5.

What's the real deal on this?

Volos
2011-02-02, 11:47 PM
That is an excellent question. It isn't explicitly stated that warforged are proficient with their own armor plating. So unless your class gives you the appropriate armor proficiency, you would take the associated penalties for wearing armor that you are not proficient with. Though the original plating is equal to light armor, and other plating are equivalent to types of armor as listed. Adamantine Body, for example, is equivalent to heavy armor. If you are proficient in heavy armor then you're fine. If not... then don't bother taking the feat at first level.

phlidwsn
2011-02-03, 12:06 AM
Warforged Armors:

Base composite Plating: +2 Armor bonus, has spell failure like light armor, may not use chest/robe slot, but does not actually count as light/med/heavy armor for prof. (FAQ pg 5 clarifies this)

Mithril Body: +5 armor bonus, you are considered to be wearing light armor

Adamantine Body: +8 Armor bonus, dr 2/adamantine, you are considered to be wearing heavy armor

Ironwood Body: +3 Armor bonus, dr 2/slashing, you are considered to be wearing light armor

In summary, you do not have any penalties from the base composite armor, no matter your class, except for the listed spell failure chance and loss of the chest armor slot. The "X body" feats need the appropriate armor prof to avoid penalties.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 12:26 AM
Notice that the body type armors do not actually have an armor check penalty. They get a penalty to skills that you normally apply an ACP to. So for instance you do not double the penalty on swim checks.

Marnath
2011-02-03, 12:55 AM
You do NOT need armor proficiency to use the body feats. You DO take a certain penalty to skills on many of them, but it isn't an armor check penalty so it doesn't double for swim.

theonesin
2011-02-03, 12:59 AM
See, this is what I meant by getting mixed answers on this.

Does anyone have an official source answering this issue?

Marnath
2011-02-03, 01:10 AM
See, this is what I meant by getting mixed answers on this.

Does anyone have an official source answering this issue?

Pretty sure the Campaign Setting book spells it out clearly. I am correct though, if it happens to be another source I was thinking of.

theonesin
2011-02-03, 01:22 AM
If you're talking about the text for the feat, the Eberron Campaign Setting and Races of Eberron books both say the exact same thing, and it's the "considered to be wearing heavy armor" part that is making this unclear.

Marnath
2011-02-03, 01:25 AM
If you're talking about the text for the feat, the Eberron Campaign Setting and Races of Eberron books both say the exact same thing, and it's the "considered to be wearing heavy armor" part that is making this unclear.

It means that it inconveniences you as if it was heavy armor, like if you have evasion or something, you couldn't use it. It's not really armor though.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 01:27 AM
That is a reference for cases such as barbarian speed where wearing heavy armor, regardless of ACP or spell failure, has an effect on your abilities. A warforged monk is fine in its normal composite plate but adamantine plate makes you lose your class abilities since "it counts as heavy armor".

On getting multiple answers

It is fairly easy. While the rules are clear they are subtle and so it is easy to assume that the penalty is an ACP for instance even if it is not.

theonesin
2011-02-03, 01:31 AM
Well, my group (who've really only had one person play Warforged before) seem to think that's how it works. How would I convince them otherwise?

Marnath
2011-02-03, 01:33 AM
Well, my group (who've really only had one person play Warforged before) seem to think that's how it works. How would I convince them otherwise?

Tell them they're wrong? It says right in the feat description how it works.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 01:37 AM
Assuming that they will listen to reason here is a link to the 3.5 FAQ in it it will tell you just like we have from an official source. If this does not work then nothing will.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

It is a PDF

EDIT: Specifically on page 7 it asks the proficiency question and the answer is you do not need proficiency.

Composite armor not being considered armor for purpose of class features is on page 5

The fact that the penalty on skills is not an ACP is also on page 5 under the question about swim checks.

theonesin
2011-02-03, 02:04 AM
Assuming that they will listen to reason here is a link to the 3.5 FAQ in it it will tell you just like we have from an official source. If this does not work then nothing will.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

It is a PDF

EDIT: Specifically on page 7 it asks the proficiency question and the answer is you do not need proficiency.

Composite armor not being considered armor for purpose of class features is on page 5

The fact that the penalty on skills is not an ACP is also on page 5 under the question about swim checks.

THANK YOU. That's exactly what I needed.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 02:07 AM
No problem. Its what a good little kobold should do.

theonesin
2011-02-03, 02:12 AM
While reading the ruling on that, I happened across the mention of whether Warforged can become Dragonborn or not. The wording confused me a little, but is it possible to become Dragonborn AND get Adamantine Body?

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 02:26 AM
Well if it was in the FAQ it might have been 1/2 dragon.

But to answer your question yes you can be a dragon born nd you can still have adamantine body.

It says you keep your type and subtype and you still count as your race for prerequisites.

theonesin
2011-02-03, 03:01 AM
Another related question since the DM has no problems with a Dragonborn Warforged with Adamantine Plating.

What's a Warforged's light/medium/max carrying loads? And does it have an effect on whether a Dragonborn's wings could let you fly?

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 03:07 AM
Another related question since the DM has no problems with a Dragonborn Warforged with Adamantine Plating.

What's a Warforged's light/medium/max carrying loads? And does it have an effect on whether a Dragonborn's wings could let you fly?

Carrying capacity for a warforged is just like other races based on strength.

You will have to look at the dragon born wings aspect to find out. I have a hunch medium or heavily loads penalize you in some way. I would have to find my copy of races of the dragon.

panaikhan
2011-02-03, 03:11 AM
I think there was a variant rule printed somewhere, that gave weights for Warforged with the body plating options.
From memory, Adamantine Body was about 320lbs, and I think Unarmoured Body was 80lbs or so.
A rules lawyer 'could' debate the difference is a carried load.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 03:14 AM
I think there was a variant rule printed somewhere, that gave weights for Warforged with the body plating options.
From memory, Adamantine Body was about 320lbs, and I think Unarmoured Body was 80lbs or so.
A rules lawyer 'could' debate the difference is a carried load.

That is in the FAQ. It was written by Mr. baker as a variant rule. It is not an official rule though he did write it out if you want to use it. Officially adamantine body does not increase your weight.

theonesin
2011-02-03, 03:14 AM
The penalty for medium and heavy loads is not being able to fly at all.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 03:16 AM
Well then I would recommend not carrying a lot of stuff then:smallwink:.

unless it says you cannot fly with medium or heavy armor you should be fine except for carried equipment. Adamantine body officially does not increase your weight unless you use that optional body feat weight factor shown in the FAQ. If you do then you will want a high str mod to hold yourself aloft.

stainboy
2011-02-03, 03:31 AM
That weight is increasing the weight of the warforged itself, it doesn't contribute toward medium or heavy load. Otherwise almost any warforged cleric with Adamantine Body would be permanently immobilized. You need a 17 Strength to carry the difference between Unarmored and Adamantine Body, even as a heavy load.

But I don't think a warforged dragonborn can exist by RAW. Only humanoids can become dragonborn.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 03:37 AM
dragon born prereq-nonevil and int-3

Both are doable.

Oddly though page 10 says you retain your type and subtype it says you become humanoid (dragonblood) on page 8. Do you become a consrtuct humanoid with the living construct and dragonblood subtypes or do you only have contruct type since I believe that is higher on the hierarchy list of types?

2xMachina
2011-02-03, 03:45 AM
You can have a lot of sub-types.

I don't think Dragonborn actually gives you humanoid type (it's them confusing things, and thought Humanoids was req for Dragonborn).

In the Mechanics section, it says you retain your type and subtype, and add the Dragonblood subtype.

I'd say the Mechanics section is the better source, as it tells you what exactly to change.

So, Construct (Living, Dragonblood)

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 03:49 AM
That is what I though to but at page 8 it says

"Humanoid(dragonblood): Dragonborn are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes they had before undergoing the rite of rebirth. For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race.

So it says your warforged is a humanoid and counts as being a dragon for race matters. Weird.

2xMachina
2011-02-03, 04:26 AM
I know about that. I'm just saying that the Mechanics section gives a better description of how it works, and should be the one used.

Dragonblood makes it so that you count as dragon.

MeeposFire
2011-02-03, 04:38 AM
I know about that. I'm just saying that the Mechanics section gives a better description of how it works, and should be the one used.

Dragonblood makes it so that you count as dragon.

I agree but there is nothing to say that that page completely overrules the other page. I think it is best to show a DM both pages for completeness. Though I think construct overrides humanoid anyway so I think we are safe either way.

Beelzebub1111
2011-02-03, 06:10 AM
The body feats are not technically armor, they only count as armor for the purposes of class features that relate to armor (a rogue with adamantine body couldn't use evasion and a barbarian wouldn't get fast movement, a druid can't cast spells without ironwood body)