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Elemist13
2011-02-03, 12:17 AM
Hello everyone,

My group is currently having a conversation about if a person is unconcious if they would receive a will save against a spell affect. We were wondering if an unconcious person is considered willing for spell affects or they get a will save similar to the reflex rule (helpless can still make a save with dex being counted as a 0 (-5)).

Does anyone know if there is a rule out there that could solve this conflict?

Chilingsworth
2011-02-03, 01:13 AM
The PHB explicitly states that unconcious creatures are automatically considered willing for the purpose of saving throws. I believe it's mentioned in the "Magic" chapter, but I'm not certain.

Claudius Maximus
2011-02-03, 02:03 AM
This is a very common stumbling block for people. "Willing" does NOT cause you to forgo all saving throws. It merely makes you eligible for spells that specify a "willing" target, like Teleport.

Casting e.g. Dominate Person on a sleeping target still affords them a will save, with no penalty.

KillianHawkeye
2011-02-03, 02:30 AM
Yes, there is a difference between being a willing for the purposes of spell targetting and voluntarily forgoing your saving throw.

Note that most spells which are limited to willing targets don't even offer a saving throw.