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Scarlet-Devil
2011-02-03, 07:41 PM
New character, probably starting between levels 3-8ish. My basic idea was something like: Lesser Aasimar Monk 1 or 2/Paladin x, fighting with a longsword and heavy shield and throwing in unarmed strikes during full attacks, mostly for special maneuvers that can't be done with a sword, like tripping or stunning fists(kicks). I would also like to get as much out of Lay on Hands as possible, as it's one of the most thematically and mechanically pleasing abilties in the game to me (as well as having much potential for childish jokes), so suggestions for feats or items that augment it are very welcome (the only one I know of is hands of the healer or whatever it's called, from BoED). So, ideas?

Greenish
2011-02-03, 07:55 PM
Serenity (Dragon #306) seems a must. It keys all of the paladin's cha dependent class features to wis. There's also a paladin/monk combo PrC in one of the Eberron books, though I forget which one. It'd help you to stack the abilities from the two classes, and at some point gets wis to AC even in armour.

[Edit]: Argent Fist is from Faiths of Eberron.

grarrrg
2011-02-03, 09:53 PM
Lesser Aasimar Monk 1 or 2/Paladin x, fighting with a longsword and heavy shield and throwing in unarmed strikes during full attacks,.....so suggestions for feats or items that augment it are very welcome

Oy, why do people insist on taking the two MADest classes and combining them?
First off, as the man said Serenity is MANDATORY (unless you are rolling stats, and somehow wound up with a 16 as your lowest score).

Next up Ascetic Knight, can freely multiclass Monk and Paladin, and their levels stack to determine Unarmed Strike damage, and Smite Bonus damage.

Whirling Steel Strike, let's you treat a Longsword as a "monk weapon". i.e. Flurry of blows WITH A SWORD!

And give Person Man's X-to-Y thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732&highlight=stat) a look over, to see if you can skimp on another stat as well.

As for Race, you've already found the only decent LA=0 'fighting' race with +wis. All the other races with +wis are usually small with str/con penalties.
If LA buyoff is allowed your options open up slightly.
Also, as a primary Melee character LA hurts you less than it would a caster, so there may be a decent template out there.
My suggestion, as for most Melee chars is Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), Stacked on a Lesser Aasimar your net Stats are +2 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int. You'd gain +3 Natural Armor, DR 8/Adamantine, Darkvision, and some other minor goodies.

Knaight
2011-02-03, 10:29 PM
Whirling Steel Strike (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Whirling_Steel_Strike), let's you treat a Longsword as a "monk weapon". i.e. Flurry of blows WITH A SWORD!

That is horribly inelegant design. They could have made that feat apply to every melee weapon, cover many more options, and be less of a waste of space. Of course, they don't.

Talbot
2011-02-03, 10:39 PM
You could be a Necropolitan Lesser Aasimar, and still get your +2 Wis, but be able to skimp on Con (D12s no matter what class you are), though being Undead has downsides, too (don't , you know, accidentally turn yourself).

A one-level dip in Shiba Protector (Oriental Adventures) is feat-intensive, but nets you Wis to attack and damage (in conjunction with Serenity, this is a good thing; you now have Wis to all four defenses as well as attack and damage). A two-level dip in Dragon Warrior (Dragon 298) nets you Wis to AC a second time (as deflection!), as well as Wis mod x Class Level to HP, and a Barbarian-esque rage ability, but requires non-lawful, non-chaotic. There are Paladin variants that help you out there, but I don't know of any monk versions that aren't one or the other, unfortunately... so if you do take it, it'll have to be after you're done leveling as a monk.

A cool trick if you do end up going Necropolitan would be a dip in Shadow Sun Ninja (you'll need maneuvers, so a one or two level dip in Swordsage may also be necessary depending on how many feats you have lying around), which gives you a first level ability that essentially gives you infinite free healing for you and your friends assuming you have at least one living party member. Also stacks with your monk levels for Unarmed damage/AC/movement bonuses.

Edit: Also, if you do decide to go Necropolitan, you expand the list of races you can use for your Wis boost to those with a Con penalty (which doesn't matter to you). I don't know what they are, but some of them might be awesome.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-02-04, 01:56 AM
Ascetic Knight is great, it would have been a shame to miss that. Whirling Steel Strike would be lovely too, if setting-specific stuff is okay and I can afford the feat tax. Mineral Warrior's pretty cheesy, not to mention... earthy, and necropolitan is definitely out.

Well, how about those magic items? And should I try to go unarmored or wear light armor?

MeeposFire
2011-02-04, 02:05 AM
Since Eberron is allowed you could use argent fist from faiths of eberron. It is a prc based on a monk/paladin and would require only stuff you would get as a monk/paladin. It gives you these bonuses.

1) your monk, paladin, and argent fist levels will stack for unarmed damage and smite damage.

2) All weapons you wield will have the ki-focus property

3) allows you to keep your monk ac bonus in armor and shields.

4) gains mettle

5) gains more smite evil.

6) Gains a few more special abilities

The class gains 4 skills a level and has fair saves and moderate BAB.

It would probably be a good fit for you.

faceroll
2011-02-04, 02:21 AM
If you go Passive Way Monk 2 (from Unearthed Arcana, also on the SRD), you get combat expertise and improved trip as bonus feats in place of regular monk feats. I'm fairly certain you get to ignore the requirements for those feats, or at least you should be able to. That means you don't need 13 int to get trip.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-02-04, 02:41 AM
If you go Passive Way Monk 2 (from Unearthed Arcana, also on the SRD), you get combat expertise and improved trip as bonus feats in place of regular monk feats. I'm fairly certain you get to ignore the requirements for those feats, or at least you should be able to. That means you don't need 13 int to get trip.

That's an excellent suggestion, I think I'll definitely use that, though I would probably take stunning fist as well. If Eberron stuff is allowed, then Argent Fist could be pretty good, though I don't have easy access to the book it's in unfortunately; does it have any special prerequisites?

MeeposFire
2011-02-04, 02:44 AM
It requires the feat monastic training/knight training. Also you need evasion, smite evil, turn undead, and be a worshiper of the silver flame. Lawful good, BAB+5, and 4 ranks of knowledge religion round out the requirements.

JaronK
2011-02-04, 03:16 AM
Crusader does the whole Sword and Board thing a lot better than Paladin (due to their shield maneuvers)... and they heal better too, which seems to be what you're aiming for. Consider the following build, and see if it fits your taste:

Fighter 2/Lion and Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Crusader X/Unarmed Swordsage 2/More Crusader Y

Take the Unarmed Swordsage as late as you can in the build to get more maneuvers of higher levels. Shield Block and Shield Counter are great shield based maneuvers, and you might also consider Iron Guard's Glare to protect party mates along with Shield Block. Take Shield Slam, Shield Charge, Extra Granted Maneuver and Shock Trooper, and see if the DM will let Shield Ward apply when using Shield Block (which would make it that much better). Improved Trip comes free with Barbarian 2 when using Wolf Totem, and you've got pounce as well. You can also use some of the Mighty Throw line of maneuvers from swordsage to chuck people around as needed. If you're using fractional BAB, you might as well take two levels of Martial Rogue (a UA variant that gives Fighter bonus feats instead of sneak attack) for more skills instead of the Fighter levels (or in addition).

Your basic tactic will be to charge and slam enemies with your shield, which trips and dazes them, and then beat the heck out of them. You can also protect allies with your shield (adjacent allies get an effective +4 AC, and then you can add your shield's bonus plus an additional 4 when you Shield Block) and you can heal them while also providing commands via White Raven to make them that much better.

Then end result is you'll stun people (technically daze) all the time, heal party members better than a normal paladin, and generally rock out with your shield. Note the sword is much less important in this build... if anything a Spinning Sword is your best bet as you can use the reach.

JaronK

faceroll
2011-02-04, 03:36 AM
Improved Trip comes free with Barbarian 2 when using Wolf Totem, and you've got pounce as well.

Wow, that's nice. I am definitely going to use that with a build. Note that tripping doesn't work well with a crusader though, unless you're using the Knockdown feat.

JaronK
2011-02-04, 06:58 AM
Wow, that's nice. I am definitely going to use that with a build. Note that tripping doesn't work well with a crusader though, unless you're using the Knockdown feat.

That's what Shield Charge is for. When you charge and hit them with your shield, they get tripped. This then gives you an additional attack. Both of said attacks can daze if you have Shield Slam. And with Shock Trooper, those attacks do insane damage. Basically, anyone who gets hit at the end of your charge is doomed. Don't forget you have Battle Leader's Charge and such... use this to avoid AoOs when you need.

JaronK

Greenish
2011-02-04, 09:33 PM
2) All weapons you wield will have the ki-focus propertyOnly special monk weapons.

You left out one rather neat trick: if you combine smite and stunning fist, you can add your levels in the PrC to the DC of the stunning fist. That's up to +10, which is pretty nice, especially with wis focus.


A feat anyone running around with IUS will want is the Snap Kick (ToB). Every time you attack (though only once with full attack), you get a free attack with unarmed strike.

ericgrau
2011-02-04, 11:48 PM
mostly for special maneuvers that can't be done with a sword, like tripping or stunning fists(kicks).

There are multiple weapons that may be used for tripping. Your one handed options are the sickle and the kama (monk weapon, EDIT: so hey it works with that PrC). There's also the guisarme (reach) and scythe (best damage thanks to crit) as two handed options. The ki focus enchantment is a +1 equivalent enchantment that lets you using stunning fist through your weapon.

I suppose being able to use lay on hands with your hands full is handy

TWF requires some kind of bonus effect or bonus damage to work well.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-02-04, 11:53 PM
There are multiple weapons that may be used for tripping. Your one handed options are the sickle and the kama (monk weapon, EDIT: so hey it works with that PrC). There's also the guisarme (reach) and scythe (best damage thanks to crit) as two handed options. The ki focus enchantment is a +1 equivalent enchantment that lets you using stunning fist through your weapon.

I suppose being able to use lay on hands with your hands full is handy

TWF requires some kind of bonus effect or bonus damage to work well.

There are multiple weapons that can be used to trip, but none of them are longswords :smallcool:.