Ability Score 0 Alternates/Expansion

[Serpentine]

Just something I thought of on my way home - something to make Ability Damage to 0 a bit more interesting, a bit more even across the abilities, and maybe a bit less save-or-die (at least for Constitution). Not sure whether it's a pro or a con, but it either removes one character from battle by death, or two in attempts to revive them.
It's really more a fluff thing, anyway, but I thought I'd stick it here for perusal.

Ability Score 0
When a character's ability score is dropped to zero, they are completely incapacitated and will die in the next few rounds. Other characters may attempt to hold off death until further treatment can be applied for the effect wears off. Unless said otherwise, the assistance is a Heal check of DC 10 that must be applied constantly, from one round to the next (although the person assisting can change as long as the swap is very quick). If the assistance stops or fails, the countdown to death continues as normal until restarted.

Strength: A character at 0 Strength is completely weak and cannot even raise a finger - they are effectively paralysed. Their heart is almost completely useless, and in 2d4 rounds they will enter cardiac arrest. This can be delayed by heart compression (Heal) or by an electric shock (dealing at least 1 nonlethal damage, but probably lethal) every round*.

Dexterity: A character at 0 Dexterity cannot react to any stimuli, and is completely paralyzed. Their diaphragm struggles to keep them breathing, and in 2d4 rounds they will start to die of suffocation. This can be delayed by mouth-to-mouth rescuscitation (Heal) or spells that negate the need to breathe (e.g. deep breath).

Constitution: A character at 0 Constitution has lost all natural defenses against injury and disease. Any wounds bleed freely, and all bacteria and viruses in their body and environment attack them without restraint, rendering the character extremely sick and weakened. They start to die of general organ failure, blood loss and/or fluid loss in 2d4 rounds. This can be delayed by constant intake of fluids and treatment of symptoms (Heal, DC 10 with medical kit, 15 without), or spells to counteract illness such as Remove Disease.

Intelligence: A character at 0 intelligence is almost effectively braindead. They fall into a state of extreme stupefication, gazing dumbly at their environment, and in 2d4 rounds will sink into a coma and die. This can be delayed by repeatedly striking or otherwise affecting the character to keep them awake (Heal), or spells for waking up.

Wisdom: A character at 0 Wisdom loses all conception of otherness and the environment, and loses their natural instinctive urges. They lose the unconcious urge to breathe, and start to die of suffocation in 2d4 rounds. They are also prone to wandering around heedless of their environment or losing control of their limbs, placing themselves at severe risk of death or injury. These can be delayed by constantly reminding them to breathe and how to do it (Heal or Charisma) or spells that negate the need to breathe, and - possibly physically - preventing them from wandering or injuring themselves.

Charisma: A character at 0 Charisma loses all sense of self and self-worth, their place in the universe and their value or even status as a living being. They fall into a dissociative fugue and/or state of extreme depression or nihilism, ignoring their environment and/or injuring their own body. In 2d4 rounds they will kill themselves - accidentally or deliberately, by their own hand or by engaging an enemy. This can be delayed by engaging their attention with constant conversation (Charisma DC10), and/or by healing and preventing any self-injury (Heal and/or restraint).


edit: Alternatively, to make it more even and less deadly, I would make it:
Strength 0: Unable to move; effectively paralysed.
Dexterity 0: Unable to react or respond; effectively paralysed.
Constitution 0: Severely ill, throwing up and similar; incapacitated.
Intelligence 0: Braindead(ish), stupified; pretty much effectively or actually unconcious.
Wisdom 0: Unable to comprehend surroundings and self, no sense of self-preservation, flounders helplessly; helpless.
Charisma 0: No sense of self, self-worth, ego or kinesthesis, cannot conciously control own body and no sense of self-preservation; helpless.


*Not actually scientifically nor even thematically correct, quite, but I thought I should put in something, I couldn't think of anything better, and I figured it's a wide enough misconception to get a pass.

[Norpfang]

What if your a construct like a warforged and are reduced to this state or in the case of CON 0 a creature immune to disease. Also some characters like mine with 6 CHA are so ugly that im sure they arnt going to really just get all depressed they would fly into a rage and kill every body.

[Serpentine]

What if your a construct like a warforgedGuess that'd require some different fluffing. What's the mechanics of them dying, anyway? Are they just inactive between -1 and -9 and then destroyed from -10, or something else?

and are reduced to this state or in the case of CON 0 a creature immune to disease.In most cases, I'd consider (fluff-wise) immunity to disease dependent on Constitution - no constitution for it to hinge on, no immunity to disease. Failing that, I guess they'd just feel incredibly queasy and weak in general, with more or less the same result.

Also some characters like mine with 6 CHA are so ugly that im sure they arnt going to really just get all depressed they would fly into a rage and kill every body.Note all the and/ors in that one. It's not necessarily a state of depression so much as a state of extreme nihilism and/or (again...) lack of sense of self. They won't, for example, start hurting themselves because they hate themselves, so much as because they no longer have a connection to their bodies and basically act randomly towards themselves. Flying into a rage and attacking everyone could work too, I guess, so long as they have no sense of self and therefore terrible aim and no ability or attempt to defend themselves.

[Morph Bark]

While certainly an interesting concept and finding the choices for Strength and Dexterity to be well-done, I just have a slight issue with the wording on the Intelligence one. At 0 Intelligence you prettymuch are already in a coma, and if you wouldn't be and instead would be staring around with a glazed look and then slip into a coma and die 2d4 rounds later... well, that just made me wonder "do they slip into a coma first and then die, or do they just die immediately?"

It's just nitpicking of course, but still. The concept is interesting anyhow and helpful for those who want to make DnD just the slightest bit more lethal (even though it wouldn't come up that much prolly, unless the DM would really go for it).

Also, the word you are looking for regarding "that thing that tells you where your limbs are" is called kinesthesis. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

Ah! Thank you. And yeah, I was struggling with the wording for that one. I was trying to describe... a state where you're not seeing or responding to anything around you, but you're not actually, fully, unconcious. Like a concious vegetable. 'course, I could just be making that up... Maybe I should just say they slip into a coma, and you have to slap 'em to keep them out of it.

[arguskos]

I find it curious that these are actually more dangerous than the standard rules (save for Con, which is less dangerous now). :smallconfused:

If you wanted to equalize it, why did you go the route of more danger? You could have simply made it so Con 0 didn't auto-kill you, and just reduced you to a coma like everything else does.

I get that you wanted to equalize everything, but why'd you roll with "make it all more dangerous"?

[Keinnicht]

An issue with the wisdom one. While I realize that D&D rules aren't the most realistic, but 2D4 rounds and you die of suffocation? Even at maximum, that's only 40 seconds. Most people wouldn't even pass out 40 seconds without air. Let alone the minimum of TWELVE SECONDS. Who on earth dies from 12 seconds without breathing?

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

This makes poisons far too lethal for their price, and makes monsters that cause ability score damage extremely dangerous. There's a reason that Constitution-damage poisons are expensive, they can kill things easily. You might want to compensate by increasing the CR of poisonous monsters and the cost of poisons. Spells that can cause ability damage also need changes.

Also, short of serious magical intervention, there is no way to save someone with a reduced ability score. Adding death to ability score damage is adding injury to insult.

It's okay if you're in a campaign where you want poisons to be lethal, I guess.

[Serpentine]

I find it curious that these are actually more dangerous than the standard rules (save for Con, which is less dangerous now). :smallconfused:

If you wanted to equalize it, why did you go the route of more danger? You could have simply made it so Con 0 didn't auto-kill you, and just reduced you to a coma like everything else does.

I get that you wanted to equalize everything, but why'd you roll with "make it all more dangerous"?Note the nonlethal alternative.
Basically, I figured if one's lethal, they all should be - or none of them. It just happened to be the all version that I came up with while walking home.

An issue with the wisdom one. While I realize that D&D rules aren't the most realistic, but 2D4 rounds and you die of suffocation? Even at maximum, that's only 40 seconds. Most people wouldn't even pass out 40 seconds without air. Let alone the minimum of TWELVE SECONDS. Who on earth dies from 12 seconds without breathing?Well, you can't take a breath first, but also I made it "start to suffocate".