PDA

View Full Version : Optimizing the Gelatinous Cube



RndmNumGen
2011-02-15, 01:42 AM
I was reading through this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060922a), and came up with the rather silly idea of having a Celestial Cube(Instead of a fiendish one) take Vow of Poverty and become the ultimate evildoer eating machine. So what is the best way we can optimize a cube to ingest as many fiends and undead as possible?

Tvtyrant
2011-02-15, 02:08 AM
Give it levels in monk and let is make unarmed strikes :D Because of its size it will do a fair amount of damage and its tremendous HD would get a bonus from the monks wisdom AC (if you can get it wisdom).

Zaydos
2011-02-15, 02:15 AM
You need to find a way to deal Good damage if you want it to eat fiends proper... and unfortunately the only one I can think of with VoP requires 15 Charisma.

Vknight
2011-02-15, 07:09 AM
Well the cube should get +3Charisma.
Why

Have you not noticed the tremendous amount of 'Half-Dragon, Gelantinous Cubes'

Eldan
2011-02-15, 07:28 AM
First off, you start with giving it levels in Totemist. Then, bind a totem that gives you claw attacks or arms.

Eurus
2011-02-15, 07:30 AM
First off, you start with giving it levels in Totemist. Then, bind a totem that gives you claw attacks or arms.

A celestial gelatinous cube totemist with Girallon Arms and Vow of Poverty. That's an... interesting mental image.

Eldan
2011-02-15, 07:34 AM
Actually, thinking about it now...

Must you have a slot/body part in order to meld something to it?

Eurus
2011-02-15, 07:37 AM
Actually, thinking about it now...

Must you have a slot/body part in order to meld something to it?

I, uh. Have no idea, actually. I don't believe Magic of Incarnum mentions anything about it. Looking at it logically, I would guess that it probably can't access any chakra whose bind would occupy a magic item slot that it can't normally use. So no Hands chakra binds for armless creatures, etc. But that's just a guess.

Zaydos
2011-02-15, 10:33 AM
Actually, thinking about it now...

Must you have a slot/body part in order to meld something to it?

Unfortunately.

Amphetryon
2011-02-15, 10:36 AM
Nobody's suggested Oozemaster yet for a Gelatinous Cube? For shame! :smalltongue:

SurlySeraph
2011-02-15, 11:18 AM
I'd start with Invisible Fist Monk 2, to make it easier for people to walk into it.
Fist of the Forest for unarmed strike progression and Con to AC would be great.
Maybe Kensai, I forget whether VoP is compatible with Kensai or not. But you can't tell me that a Gelatinous Cube wearing a hakimachi and serenely announcing that it is the perfect weapon before flinging its +1 Throwing Holy Axiomatic Self at you isn't awesome.
If we don't massively increase its Wisdom, Steadfast Determination is a real good idea.
Work on raising Con a lot to increase its Paralysis DC, and Str to raise its Engulf DC.


Unfortunately.

Pseudopods count as every body slot and I will keep saying this over and over even if I am proven wrong because Gelatinous Cube Totemist! :smalltongue:


Nobody's suggested Oozemaster yet for a Gelatinous Cube? For shame! :smalltongue:

We... we put gelatinous cubes on your gelatinous cubes so you can engulf evildoers while you engulf evildoers?

RndmNumGen
2011-02-15, 12:29 PM
Fist of the Forest for unarmed strike progression and Con to AC would be great.


Omg... yes.... so much yes... That's a raw +13 to AC without even increasing it's CON score.

Ajadea
2011-02-15, 12:46 PM
Bizarrely, by RAW, you can add the Fiendish Template to an ooze, but you can't add the Celestial Template to one. So this technically isn't entirely legal, but who cares? It's awesome!

Draconic Creature Template adds +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha. That's basically all the important stats right there.

Adding that, I think the creature becomes:

Size/Type: Large Ooze (dragonblood, extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 4d10+36 (60 hp)
Initiative: -5
Speed: 15 ft. (3 squares)
Armor Class: 5 (-1 size, -5 Dex, +1 natural), touch 4, flat-footed 5
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+7
Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d6 acid) or claw +3 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d6 acid)
Full Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d6 acid) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d6 acid)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Acid, engulf, paralysis, smite evil 1/day
Special Qualities: Blindsight 60 ft, DR 5/magic, darkvision 60 ft, lowlight vision, immunity to electricity, ooze traits, resist acid and cold 5, spell resistance 9, transparent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref -4, Will -4
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 1, Con 28, Int 3, Wis 1, Cha 3
Skills: 4 Skill Points, arrange as desired, +2 racial bonus to Intimidate and Spot
Feats: Get two (the example Celestial Draconic Cube has Multiattack and Improved Natural Attack (claws))
Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: 1/10th coins, 50% goods (no nonmetal or nonstone), 50% items (no nonmetal or nonstone)
Alignment: Always good (any)
Advancement: 5-12 HD (Large); 13-24 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment:

Yeah. Automatic claws, regardless of if the creature has arms. I think it's funny, personally.

Waker
2011-02-15, 03:02 PM
Bizarrely, by RAW, you can add the Fiendish Template to an ooze, but you can't add the Celestial Template to one. So this technically isn't entirely legal, but who cares? It's awesome!
No, but you can add the Half-Celestial template if you can get it's Int to 4. I know Half-Dragon adds +2 int, but you gotta find the other 2 somewhere else first.

Eldan
2011-02-15, 03:04 PM
Fiendish Half-dragon Half-celestial.

Done. And what a weird family tree that would be...

Kobold-Bard
2011-02-15, 03:06 PM
Play this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9385418&postcount=467)?[/subtle]

flabort
2011-02-15, 03:11 PM
Eldan, the only way that could be more... ''pass the brain bleach" worthy, is if you somehow fit illithids into the mix. I think I'll need a #67 brain bleach after this...

Tvtyrant
2011-02-15, 03:21 PM
Give it levels in Thrall of Jubilex to gain the ability to summon oozes and demons?

bloodtide
2011-02-15, 03:27 PM
Don't forget the Sentry Ooze Template(From Dungeonscape). The ooze gets spell resistance and a +10 to Wis and Cha!

And then you just need to add two points of Int from something....and the Ooze can be a Half-Celestial.

Waker
2011-02-15, 03:31 PM
If I could remember where the table was for stacking templates I could expand on this idea further, but you could add the Half-Fey template (Fiend Folio) and then add either the Seelie Court Fey if its type changes to fey or if it doesn't the Unseelie Court Fey (both from Dragon Compendium).

Cieyrin
2011-02-15, 03:33 PM
Give it levels in Thrall of Jubilex to gain the ability to summon oozes and demons?

How exactly does being a Thrall and Exalted mesh, exactly? :smallconfused:

Eldan
2011-02-15, 03:34 PM
Okay...

So a Fiendish, Half-celestial, Half-dragon Sentry Cube has...

STR 22, DEX 3, CON 32, INT 7, WIS 17, CHA 17.
Immunity to Electricity and one other element, mind-affecting abilities, visual effects, poison, sleep, polymorph, stunning, critical hits, disease
Resistances: acid 10, cold 10, and electricity 10, fire 5, Spell Resistance 20, DR 10/magic...

It's challenge rating is 8+the adjustment of sentry ooze, which I don't know.

bloodtide
2011-02-15, 03:38 PM
Oh...an Awakened Sentry Ooze, would get 3d6 Wis and Cha +10! So 13-28 in both Wisdom and Charisma!

An awakened ooze gets the abberation type so then you can add the celestial template.

The awaken ooze spell is in Dragon 304.

Keld Denar
2011-02-15, 03:42 PM
Once you optimize your cube, you need to stat up his adventuring companions...a sarcastic mimic and a rust monster with an epic Cha score.

Skorj
2011-02-15, 03:44 PM
From a fluff perspective, Awakened seems just as useful - this ooze needs to be a predator, not a bumbler, after all.

Kaww
2011-02-15, 03:49 PM
You need to find a way to deal Good damage if you want it to eat fiends proper... and unfortunately the only one I can think of with VoP requires 15 Charisma.

IIRC VoP allows your attacks to be treated as +2 good weapons once you reach 10 HD...

Also sentry ooze - dungeonscape might help with stats and abilities...

RndmNumGen
2011-02-15, 03:52 PM
Bizarrely, by RAW, you can add the Fiendish Template to an ooze, but you can't add the Celestial Template to one. So this technically isn't entirely legal, but who cares? It's awesome!


Wait, you can't??

*Checks SRD*

Huh. Well look at that... Celestial doesn't apply to Oozes, but Fiendish does. Weird. I always thought Celestial was an exact counterpart to Fiendish...

Jair Barik
2011-02-15, 03:58 PM
Fiends will do it with anything, so will dragons and humans.
Clestials have 'standards'

Keld Denar
2011-02-15, 04:12 PM
There is a feat in LM called Improved Paralysis. Its like a double strength Ability Focus, but only works for Paralysis. Its not undead only though, so ANY paralysis ability you have would benefit from it. Thus, a GC could take both and net a +6 on his paralysis DC, not bad for an investment of 2 feats.

Darrin
2011-02-15, 04:57 PM
Bizarrely, by RAW, you can add the Fiendish Template to an ooze, but you can't add the Celestial Template to one. So this technically isn't entirely legal, but who cares? It's awesome!


Sentry Ooze (Dungeonscape) increases Int to 2. To get any other Int increases, though, you have to change the type to something else. Fiendish or Pseudonatural works, bringing Int up to 3. From there you can add Half-Dragon (Int +2) or Half-Fey. After that, Spellwarped (MM3) can get you another Int +4, and Phrenic (XPH) adds Int +2.

You can skip some of those templates by changing your type to Aberration, though... Sentry Ooze, then Corrupted by the Abyss (EttDP, 3.5 update for Corrupted template), for example, followed by Spellwarped.

The easiest way to get a Celestial Cube is probably Sentry Ooze (or Pseudonatural) -> Half-Dragon -> Celestial (roughly, LA +5). Something I've been toying with occasionally:

Spellwarped Dungeonbred Corrupted Sentry Ooze Gelatinous Cube, which gives me a medium-sized cube with 4HD, LA +3, and the somewhat playable ability scores:

Str 14, Dex 9, Con 34, Int 6, Wis 9, Cha 9

From there, something like Frozen DwarfCube Hulk Smash! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50588) might be interesting, but to get into Stoneblessed it needs to be giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid... easy enough to do with Half-Troll, but that's another LA +4.

Eldan
2011-02-15, 05:04 PM
Actually, I want to build a cube drunken master now.

Suichimo
2011-02-15, 05:10 PM
It has VoP and it basically exists to destroy evil. Why not put Saint on it?

Also, what about Unarmed Swordsage instead of Monk?

SurlySeraph
2011-02-15, 05:14 PM
By the rules as written, Unarmed SS's AC bonus only applies when you're wearing light armor, not when you're wearing no armor. Armoring a gelatinous cube defeats the point of being a gelatinous cube. Also, I'm a fan of the Invisible Fist monk ACF, which trades Evasion for the ability to become invisible for one round out of every three, which could be very useful since people who run into a GC without seeing it are auto-engulfed. Other than that, SS might be better.

Eldan
2011-02-15, 05:21 PM
Yeah, but...

I want ot see cubes leaping out of the way of fireballs.

Cog
2011-02-15, 05:24 PM
I want ot see cubes leaping out of the way of fireballs.
With a -5 DEX penalty, I don't think evasion is enough to see that.

Eldan
2011-02-15, 05:26 PM
I see. They need improved evasion.

Cogidubnus
2011-02-15, 05:40 PM
You guys realise that with Gestalt this is not only playable but potentially awesome? Give it enough Monk to make it invisible, then rogue to get it SA and Improved Evasion. It dodge fire, turns invisible and then sneak attacks you when you walk into it. Excellent.
I'm subscribing to this thread.

Vknight
2011-02-15, 05:41 PM
Levels in Rouge.

Ok so we are using a.
Half Dragon, Half Fiend, Half Celestial, Gelatinous Cube, Ninja.

Keld Denar
2011-02-15, 05:53 PM
Levels in Rouge.

Why would you want your cube to be colored red? Wouldn't it be best to keep it's transparent coloring so as to best ambush unwitting monsters and adventurers?

Then again, who can resist the terrible might of living strawberry jello....

Cieyrin
2011-02-15, 06:07 PM
Why would you want your cube to be colored red? Wouldn't it be best to keep it's transparent coloring so as to best ambush unwitting monsters and adventurers?

Then again, who can resist the terrible might of living strawberry jello....

It could also be Vampiric Jello. In Soviet Russia, Jello eats you! :smallbiggrin:

Vknight
2011-02-15, 06:22 PM
Exactlly didn't you see it?