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View Full Version : Double weapon material shenanigans



Darth Stabber
2011-02-18, 03:57 PM
Spiked chains appear to be Symetrical, Could I do 1 striking end in Cold Iron and the other in Alchemical Silver?

Some Axes are likewise symetrical, Could I do the same.

Keld Denar
2011-02-18, 04:09 PM
Spiked Chains and most axes (baring Urgrosh and Orc Double) are not double weapons, even if they look like it. Thus, you can't. Only true double weapons (those denoted with the double weapon subscript) can be of disimilar materials.

Darth Stabber
2011-02-18, 04:34 PM
Probably for the best. I was looking for a way to double the utility of my magic weapons for nearly free. I'm guessing my mithril/adamantine alloy armor is probably right out too.

Thurbane
2011-02-18, 05:38 PM
Not exactly what you're after, but there's a couple of items in MIC that help with this. Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane lets your weapon count as magic silver, and Ring of Adamantine Touch lets them count as adamantine.

SurlySeraph
2011-02-18, 05:43 PM
Probably for the best. I was looking for a way to double the utility of my magic weapons for nearly free. I'm guessing my mithril/adamantine alloy armor is probably right out too.

I think Glassteel armor has mithril weight and adamantine DR.

Combat Reflexes
2011-02-18, 06:03 PM
Spiked Chains and most axes (baring Urgrosh and Orc Double) are not double weapons, even if they look like it. Thus, you can't. Only true double weapons (those denoted with the double weapon subscript) can be of disimilar materials.

It could be done, but the axe would be almost impossible to forge. you're better off with a double axe where you just use one side at a time.

Siosilvar
2011-02-18, 06:43 PM
Probably for the best. I was looking for a way to double the utility of my magic weapons for nearly free. I'm guessing my mithril/adamantine alloy armor is probably right out too.

Eh, I'd imagine most DMs would let you get away with it if you paid the full cost of two separate weapons. It won't be "nearly free" but you won't need to draw multiple weapons.

You could achieve a similar effect by holding two one-handed weapons and picking the better one to use in a given round (but not using TWF). This means you can't use a two-handed weapon or non-animated shield, though.

Flickerdart
2011-02-18, 11:38 PM
It could be done, but the axe would be almost impossible to forge. you're better off with a double axe where you just use one side at a time.
Or just cast fabricate. It's a magic world.

Mark Hall
2011-02-19, 11:32 AM
It could be done, but the axe would be almost impossible to forge. you're better off with a double axe where you just use one side at a time.

I think you could do it, with a bit of creativity.

First of all, you're looking at slide-up blades, similar to a pickaxe today... you can, in theory, slide the blades of the bottom of the handle, and the width of the top of the handle is what keeps them from going off the top.

You then create two separate blades, designed to slide up this handle and socket together. It would probably a good idea to also design them so they are easily riveted in place. I'd then cap off the top of the handle, and apply a collar beneath the blades to keep them in place.

Technically, you have two blades on the weapon, on opposite sides of the handle. It would allow you to choose your damage type. I'd charge you for two different weapons (the wooden handle, cap and collar are fairly incidental to this), and D&D would probably want you to enchant it twice, but I also think having to double-enchant double weapons is stupid, so I would not.

Yora
2011-02-19, 11:42 AM
Or you could just make a double headed battleaxe from iron with notches were the cutting edges go, and fill one of them with cold iron and the other with silver.
Then paint the whole thing in well visible colors and always attack with the one edge you currently need.

Mark Hall
2011-02-19, 12:21 PM
Or you could just make a double headed battleaxe from iron with notches were the cutting edges go, and fill one of them with cold iron and the other with silver.
Then paint the whole thing in well visible colors and always attack with the one edge you currently need.

Hmmm... or solid plates, sandwiched between steel.

Kurald Galain
2011-02-19, 12:27 PM
Hmmm... or solid plates, sandwiched between steel.

Or just make the entire weapon out of bilver and be done with it.

Mark Hall
2011-02-19, 03:03 PM
Or just make the entire weapon out of bilver and be done with it.

Sure, you can, but if you're looking for two different metal types in the same weapon, making the entire weapon out of bilver only helps you with those with DR bilver.

Darth Stabber
2011-02-21, 09:59 AM
I had a Twf Ranger/fighter/Dread commando/scout that dual wielded Kukri, and had one of nearly ever flavor. cold iron, silver, adamantine, mithril (never came up, but I was prepared), Crystal, Bronze, brass, regular iron, steel, alchemical gold (came up once for dealing with a homebrew wereraven), bone, and +1 evil outsider bane.

The GM did not allow.
Copper, Tungsten Carbide, Aluminum, Wood, Ice, plastic, ceramic, and Rubidium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubidium)(it would work if it kept it in a sealed scabbard filled with oil till i needed it, and the residual oil would give me just long enough to land a blow once it was drawn, of course some people think that a melting point of 102 degrees is a negative)

Curmudgeon
2011-02-21, 11:09 AM
The only double material shenanigans I care for are the combination of darkwood and mithral. That makes it a lot easier to figure out the weight of something like a glaive, because both the haft and blade are normal weight.

Keld Denar
2011-02-21, 11:20 AM
Copper, Tungsten Carbide, Aluminum, Wood, Ice, plastic, ceramic, and Rubidium

Try Chromium Cobalt. It's what they forge hip and knee replacements out of. Really dense stuff, very hard too. Probably as close as RL materials come to adamantine. Makes titanium alloys cry.

Darth Stabber
2011-02-21, 12:53 PM
I've been trying to figure out what Mithril is lately. The problem with finding Mithril is that there are only 6 transition metals lighter than Iron (Alkaline and Alkaline earth metals are too reactive). But luckily there is a standout. Though i think that if it was going to be an alloy, then I would need to set up my own metalurgy lab in my kitchen, and I don't think my roomate would approve.


Aluminum - Lightest metal that is stable in water and air, fairly strong. Not discovered on earth until 1808, and not produced until 1825. Also given that aluminum is increadibly common (8% of the earth's Crust), if they knew how to make it, all armor would be mithril. Also due to Oxidization aluminum is very dull (but the outer oxidized layer protects the inner metal from reactivity). On any earth like planet we could assume that bauxite (the mineral from which most aluminum is derived) would be fairly common, and that if they discovered a metal could be forged from it, they would do so.

Scandium - Rare, only really used in certain alloys of aluminum. On it's own it develops a pink or yellow color.

Titanium - It seems to have everything going for it: 45% lighter than most steel alloys while retaining the same strength, and it's about the right color.

Vanadium - Too dark, but pretty. mostly for alloy purposes.

Chromium - Shiny shiny shiny. More useful to protect another metal from corrosion than on it's own. Could be part of an alloy that would be Mithril

Manganese - Close enough in density to Iron that the difference would be negligible.

Greenish
2011-02-21, 01:00 PM
I had a Twf Ranger/fighter/Dread commando/scout that dual wielded Kukri, and had one of nearly ever flavor. cold iron, silver, adamantine, mithril (never came up, but I was prepared), Crystal, Bronze, brass, regular iron, steel, alchemical gold (came up once for dealing with a homebrew wereraven), bone, and +1 evil outsider bane.Missing Bronzewood, Byeshk, Flametouched Iron, Riedran Crysteel, Targath, Glassteel, Baatorian Green Steel, Gehennan Morghuth- Iron and Solanian Truesteel.

Darth Stabber
2011-02-21, 01:07 PM
Try Chromium Cobalt. It's what they forge hip and knee replacements out of. Really dense stuff, very hard too. Probably as close as RL materials come to adamantine. Makes titanium alloys cry.

Also, I always figured that Adamantine was Tungsten Carbide (its the right color and everything)


Missing Bronzewood, Byeshk, Flametouched Iron, Riedran Crysteel, Targath, Glassteel, Baatorian Green Steel, Gehennan Morghuth- Iron and Solanian Truesteel.

If I would have known about them I would have tried.

Also Rubidium is for reactivity. Only Francium (Short half life {22 minutes for the most stable isotope}, and gas at room temperature), and cesium (liquid at room temperature) are more reactive metals. Reacts explosivly with water in it's elemental form (hence the sealed oil scabbard). The Idea is to leave it in a wound until the blood washes the oil away and makes contact with the metal (more Fiery than explosive at that point but still).

Now since this would be a chemical burn, would it count as acid or fire damage?

Prime32
2011-02-21, 02:26 PM
I've been trying to figure out what Mithril is lately. The problem with finding Mithril is that there are only 6 transition metals lighter than Iron (Alkaline and Alkaline earth metals are too reactive). But luckily there is a standout. Though i think that if it was going to be an alloy, then I would need to set up my own metalurgy lab in my kitchen, and I don't think my roomate would approve.Yttrium Silver (http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/103003_02.html).

Darth Stabber
2011-02-21, 03:17 PM
The Problem with the Yttrium Silver is the issue of weight. Silver and Yttrium are both heavier than steel, and I doubt that the structure of AgY would reduce it's density. The only way that it could make a lighter armor is if the rings/plates were thinner, and it seems like they are not (and if they were they would not have the protective qualities of Iron. Even with the forging process discussed in that article, you would end up with heavier, not lighter, armor. The material itself sounds quiet interesting, and I would love to have some to play with, but it doesn't fit the bill that the author himself set out for. Though that may be the diffence between LoTR Mithril and D&D Mithril. I can accept that. Also since LoTR lacks the Evokers of D&D, they would not have the heat to do that. Titanium on the other hand could probably be worked with the right spells (and the metamagic feat that makes fire hot enough to burn fire immune things). Seriously there is a metamagic feat for burninating things that are immune to burnination. That feat would give an evoker the neccessary temp to process titanium, or even convert bauxite into aluminum now that I think about it.

Now I want to make a Metallurgist Evoker. Devolop custom metal processing spells that burn super hot in a small area.

New Spell

Heat the Crucible
Transmutation/Evocation[Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Fire 3
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 Round
Range: Touch
Target: Non-organic Inanimate object
Effect: use increadible heat to render an item to it's elementary components
Duration: Concentration
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: No

This spell is a specialized concentrated version of the spell heat metal. It's Uses intense heat to melt down whatever item is placed in it. On the first round any organic or flamable parts of the item will be burned away. On the second round any remaining contents will be rendered liquid, with any non-metallic elements burning away (except carbon). On the third round the metallic components will stratify based on elemental density (lighter metals on top, heavier on bottom). On the Fourth and all subsequent rounds the Metal will begin to boil. Each round 1/4 of the original metallic volume will be burned away, starting with the metal with the lowest boiling point. after 7 rounds all of the contents will be gone and the air surrounding will be mildly toxic (fort save dc12 against nausea) starting at round 4. If the caster becomes Nauseus while maintaining this spell, the spell ends, before any noticable amount of metal boils away. After this spell the metal will resolidify in (1d4/round maintained) rounds. If immediately put to use, the caster gains a +4 circumstance bonus on subsequent craft checks for making an Item from that metal. It also provides 1/2 of the craft cost of non-magical item crafting.

Focus: A ceramic container large enough to contain the the item to be rendered.

The Cat Goddess
2011-02-21, 04:18 PM
Probably for the best. I was looking for a way to double the utility of my magic weapons for nearly free. I'm guessing my mithril/adamantine alloy armor is probably right out too.

There's a Greyhawk material called Oerthblood that gives Adamantine DR and adds a Luck Bonus to Saves when alloyed into armor.

I forget which Dragon Magazine it's in, but the description clearly indicates it's an additive... so it could conceivably be added to Mithril armors/weapons.

Mark Hall
2011-02-21, 08:10 PM
Missing Bronzewood, Byeshk, Flametouched Iron, Riedran Crysteel, Targath, Glassteel, Baatorian Green Steel, Gehennan Morghuth- Iron and Solanian Truesteel.

And tighmaevril (http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Tighmaevril) (bloodsilver)