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View Full Version : Generic Spellcaster and the Sorcerer...(Is this idea too broken?)



Maho-Tsukai
2011-02-23, 12:24 PM
Sorcerers, as you all know, kinda got shafted by wizards. While mountainous casting is nice they get absolutely no benefits for taking levels in their own class beyond stronger spellcasting(though that is a big benefit), have a spells known restriction AND have a slower progression for casting then a wizard. Not to mention their spells per day can be matched by a wizard easily with the right acfs. Now this dose not make the class lousy/not work like, say, the fighter, but it dose seem like the sorcerer sacrifices TOO MUCH for the power they obtain when compared to the wizard.

Thus, I got an odd idea when looking at the generic spellcaster. While we all know the generic spellcaster is broken, I began to wonder if perhaps the basic idea of it could be applied to the sorcerer to make the sacrifices a sorc makes actually worth it. Simply put, I want to know if all of you here think that allowing the sorc to select spells from any spell list that has at least one spell of 9th level.(so PrC exclusive lists which have high level spells at lower levels would be off limits to prevent shenanigans like Heal as a level 4 and other such nonsense.) So basically, most base class lists + domain lists. While I know this sounds absolutely broken, if you look at what the sorc gives up(no class features beyond spellcasting and a familiar, stunted spell progression, limited spells known ect..) I want to know if you all feel allowing sorcs to do this actually justifies the downsides the class possesses.

Personally I think this move may be too overpowering but I want your opinions before I write off it's use. What do you think about this houserule? Broken like I see it as? Or is it overpowered but not any worse then Tier 1 classes are? Post your opinions here.

Analytica
2011-02-23, 12:41 PM
I think that would be fine, balance-wise. Do note that some argue that sorcerers can already do this by RAW, under that "spells known mostly drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list" clause. I disagree on this interpretation, but I don't think a sorcerer given this capacity even changes tier.

SilverLeaf167
2011-02-23, 12:42 PM
It works fluff-wise, as the Sorc is supposed to gain spells from pure talent and shouldn't need to care about class spell lists.

It might be a little over-powered and would definitely be used for different nasty shenanigans. You might want to let them choose two or three classes which they can take spells from etc. and maybe just one domain.

dextercorvia
2011-02-23, 12:53 PM
It wouldn't raise the Sorcerer to Tier 1 if that is what you asking. It would put them at the very top of Tier 2, but they still wouldn't be able to break the game in a new way every day.

Maho-Tsukai
2011-02-23, 01:06 PM
Yeah. I was not actually looking to raise a sorcerer's tier by doing this. Tier 2 is fine for the sorc. The main thing I was looking to achieve is give the sorc something to actually make the hits it takes(In particular the stunted spell level acquisition.) somewhat more justified, and I thought giving it access to spells a wizard can't ever get unless he wastes feats on getting them(Arcane disciple for domains, Extra spell for others...though Extra spell is hardly an "optimal" feat.) or pulls some crazy shenanigans most DMs won't allow(pretty much every non-wiz/sorc spell not from a domain list if not using Extra spell.).

Chuckthedwarf
2011-02-23, 02:00 PM
It works fluff-wise, as the Sorc is supposed to gain spells from pure talent and shouldn't need to care about class spell lists.

It might be a little over-powered and would definitely be used for different nasty shenanigans. You might want to let them choose two or three classes which they can take spells from etc. and maybe just one domain.

Also, I think people ignore the fact that a wizard's pretty much helpless without a spellbook, or with a spellbook stolen, sundered, burnt or otherwise destroyed.

Sure, there are ways to counteract it, but a wizard effectively has no spells (that matter) without a spellbook, unless they have a feat that allows them to prepare some spells from memory.

Not to mention, powerful and rare spells SHOULD be hard to get. Lenient DMs might be a part of the problem here. Any spell above level 5ish should be something epic and coveted. Even in a very magic-heavy campaign, 8th and 9th level spells should still be something one has to work for.

Although, of course, the chasm between the sorcerer and the wizard is too great. I kind of like sorcerer class features from Pathfinder, while it doesn't do a whole lot to equalize them with wizard or anything (and frankly I don't care too much about it, sorcerers is still one of my favorite arcane classes) it provides a lot of flavour, especially in regards to sorcerer fluff.