Love the Warlock but I want to change it.

[shogahin]

I really enjoy playing the warlock but it just seems to not be right with me. I am not sure how far into my changes I can go due to OGL so if someone knows, please educate me. Hopefully, not in legalese.. I will just fall asleep.. :smallamused:

Thanks

[Hyooz]

People have posted total reworks of the Warlock on these boards.

[Tael]

Indeed, I believe there have been four or five of them including my own. What exactly do you have in mind for these changes? Numerical tweaks like increasing Invocations known? Or something more dramatic?

[shogahin]

Indeed, I believe there have been four or five of them including my own. What exactly do you have in mind for these changes? Numerical tweaks like increasing Invocations known? Or something more dramatic?

HD from D6 to D8 due to warlocks are supposed to be tougher than wizards/sorcerers

Alignment : any due to warlocks gained their powers by a ancestor making a pact with a higher being. Whether that being is good/evil/chaotic...etc is irrelevant to the alignment of the pc.
Drop the Dr/cold iron

Add Legacy's like the sorcerer has. I took the Fey Heritage and the Fiendish Heritage and changed them to Fey/Fiendish Legacy's. I removed the alignment restriction and granted them as class abilities at 1st level then 5th and then every 5 levels to a total of 5 at 20. I am just having trouble getting the right mix for the different alignments and abilities.

Evil Legacy

FIENDISH LEGACY [LEGACY]
You are descended from creatures native to the Lower Planes. You share some of your ancestors' natural resistance to poison, and you are resistant to the magic of good foes.
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on Fortitude saving throws against poison. You also gain a +1 bonus on saving throws against spells or other effects produced by good creatures.

FIENDISH HERITAGE [LEGACY]
The magical powers of your ancestors manifest in you.
Prerequisites: Fiendish Legacy, character level 9th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), summon monster V (fiendish creatures only), and unholy blight. Your caster level equals your character level.

Chaos Legacy

FEY LEGACY [LEGACY]
You are descended from creatures native to the fey realms. You are naturally resistant to the most common effects produced by your ancestors.
Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against enchantment effects.

FEY HERITAGE [LEGACY]
The magical powers of your ancestors manifest in you.
Prerequisites: Fey Legacy, character level 9th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: confusion, dimension door, and summon nature's ally V. Your caster level equals your character level.

[T.G. Oskar]

Add Legacy's like the sorcerer has. I took the Fey Heritage and the Fiendish Heritage and changed them to Fey/Fiendish Legacy's. I removed the alignment restriction and granted them as class abilities at 1st level then 5th and then every 5 levels to a total of 5 at 20. I am just having trouble getting the right mix for the different alignments and abilities.

Well, I was working with that (yes, I have decided to retool the Warlock as well...), and I found a nice way to deal with that. Basically, you determine the type of creature with which you've made the pact (I've done it with aberrations, demons, devils, eladrin, fey and yugoloth; dragons are basically the realm of Dragonfire Adept), and you gain some benefits as levels go, as well as access to some invocations that cannot be accessed by certain pacts. That makes each pact unique, as even though it restricts the choice of powers and abilities to a specific set of alignments, it diversifies the options by quite a bit. Then, I locked that to most of the class abilities of the warlock (mostly DR, energy resistance and one or two more things, alongside invocations). That way, each pact gains its own distinctive flavor but the warlock gains its own variety.

So, for example: eladrin can only be chosen by warlocks up to one step away from Chaotic Good, so you can have CG, CN or NG eladrin-pact warlocks. They gain damage reduction against everything except evil weapons, resistance to electricity and one other between acid, cold or fire, and a bonus against spells with the [Evil] descriptor; similar run for the rest of the pacts, making each pact have its own qualities.

While the heritages are nice, you get far too little heritages (Fey, Fiendish, Dragon, and the Infernal and Celestial Sorcerer Heritages), so it doesn't cover the full brunt of abilities you could get, and it risks rewriting far too much stuff that's already written. You'd have to think of how many creatures might offer pacts and their specific qualities: the demon and devil entries are found easily, but Eladrin require reading Book of Exalted Deeds, yugoloth require reading Manual of the Planes or Fiend Folio, slaadi are intellectual property IIRC and are slightly harder to find. And so on.

[Fable Wright]

Shameless self-plug. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184385) What I think is wrong with the warlock as written is: They have too little damage overall. While they can keep going all day, at mid-to-high levels, pretty much any optimized character can beat them with damage. They are unable to take pretty much any combat invocations, given how awesome and useful the other invocations are. They don't get the chance to take pretty much any combat options, unless they sink their feats into it. Which is annoying, as they are supposed to be dedicated blasters. [/2cents]

[shogahin]

T.G. you've covered the issues very nicely. While you have dealt with it by defining actual critters with alignment requirements, I would rather not have the alignment requirements but base each Legacy off of an alignment type.. i.e... chaos, law, ....etc.. I feel that alignment restrictions for the warlock doesn't support the freedom of choice for the pc. Of course, I am viewing the warlocks powers as gained from an ancestor and passed down. There could be a different Legacy dealing with pc's that did make a pack with a supernatural being.

[shogahin]

Shameless self-plug. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184385) What I think is wrong with the warlock as written is: They have too little damage overall. While they can keep going all day, at mid-to-high levels, pretty much any optimized character can beat them with damage. They are unable to take pretty much any combat invocations, given how awesome and useful the other invocations are. They don't get the chance to take pretty much any combat options, unless they sink their feats into it. Which is annoying, as they are supposed to be dedicated blasters. [/2cents]

My DM thought the same but he added a feat that allowed the D6 to go to a D8 which definitely solved that issue.

Infernal Blast

Your Eldritch Blasts are more powerful than the standard warlock causing more damage.

Prerequisite: Eldritch Blast class ability
Benefit: Your Eldritch Blast die type is increased to a D8 instead of a D6.

[DracoDei]

I assume this is for Pathfinder?

[shogahin]

I assume this is for Pathfinder?

Maybe ....... :smalleek:

[shogahin]

While the heritages are nice, you get far too little heritages (Fey, Fiendish, Dragon, and the Infernal and Celestial Sorcerer Heritages), so it doesn't cover the full brunt of abilities you could get, and it risks rewriting far too much stuff that's already written. You'd have to think of how many creatures might offer pacts and their specific qualities: the demon and devil entries are found easily, but Eladrin require reading Book of Exalted Deeds, yugoloth require reading Manual of the Planes or Fiend Folio, slaadi are intellectual property IIRC and are slightly harder to find. And so on.

I was thinking Fey (chaos), Fiendish (evil), elemental (Neutral), infernal (Lawful) and celestial (good). With about 5-6 legacy abilities to choose from, more than that would be a lot of unnecessary work.

[Knaight]

I assume this is for Pathfinder?

Pretty clearly yes.

[shogahin]

Just a bit of fun there.. but anyway... the total revisions are below. Just trying to figure out granted 1/day spells, DR types and resistances.... Some things I have gotten from other sources, so only the basic conversions and the Legacy's are my doing.


The intro:
The Origins of the Warlock
Though the warlock is described as an arcane character, his powers function very differently from those of the various arcane spellcasters in D&D. Although the end result of a breath of the night invocation might be largely indistinguishable from a fog cloud spell, a warlock channels his magic in a way that the average wizard or sorcerer can only dream of accomplishing. Warlocks typically claim that this proficiency with magic comes from their bloodline—or, in some cases, from a pact made with powerful entities that permanently changes the individual's interactions with the supernatural.
The common stereotype associated with warlocks is that they all derive their powers from a fiendish heritage. In truth, while they might be the most visible and well-known examples, fiendish warlocks make up only a thin majority of all those who use invocations. Some theorists even hold that the category of arcanists known as "warlocks" actually encompasses a wider range of power sources and mindsets than commonly believed, and that further study will reveal the multitude of archetypes hiding behind the label of warlock. A brief discussion of the various known entities capable of granting the warlock his powers follows.

Evil Legacy:

FIENDISH LEGACY [LEGACY]
You are descended from creatures native to the Lower Planes. You share some of your ancestors' natural resistance to poison, and you are resistant to the magic of good foes.
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on Fortitude saving throws against poison. You also gain a +1 bonus on saving throws against spells or other effects produced by good creatures.

FIENDISH HERITAGE [LEGACY]
The magical powers of your ancestors manifest in you.
Prerequisites: Fiendish Legacy, character level 9th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), summon monster V (fiendish creatures only), and unholy blight. Your caster level equals your character level.

FIENDISH POWER [LEGACY]
Your fiendish Legacy augments the power of certain types of magic.
Prerequisites: Fiendish Legacy.
Benefit: Your caster level and save DCs for evil spells and warlock invocations increase by 1.

FIENDISH PRESENCE [LEGACY]
You share your ancestors' ability to tamper with the minds of weak-minded fools.
Prerequisites: Fiendish Legacy, character level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: cause fear, detect thoughts, and suggestion. Your caster level equals your character level.

FIENDISH SKIN [LEGACY]
Your Fiendish Legacy guards you against all but Good weapons.
Prerequisites: Fiendish Legacy.
Benefit: You gain damage reduction (overcome by good) equal to 1 + the number of feats you have that list Fiendish Legacy as a prerequisite (including such feats that you take after gaining this one). For example, if you have Fiendish Skin and Fiendish Presence, you would have damage reduction 3/Good. This value stacks with any similar damage reduction you might have from your type, subtype, race, or class, but not from other sources, such as spells or magic items.

Good Legacy:

CELESTIAL LEGACY (LEGACY)
You are descended from creatures native to the Celestial realms. You are naturally resistant to the most common effects produced by your ancestors.
Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against petrification effects.

CELESTIAL HERITAGE [LEGACY]
The magical powers of your ancestors manifest in you.
Prerequisites: Celestial Legacy, character level 9th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), summon monster V (Angelic creatures only), and Holy Smite. Your caster level equals your character level.

CELESTIAL POWER [LEGACY]
Your fiendish Legacy augments the power of certain types of magic.
Prerequisites: Celestial Legacy.
Benefit: Your caster level and save DCs for good spells and warlock invocations increase by 1.

CELESTIAL PRESENCE [LEGACY]
You share your ancestors' ability to help for the good.
Prerequisites: Celestial Legacy, character level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: aid, commune, and detect evil. Your caster level equals your character level.

CELESTIAL SKIN [LEGACY]
Your Angelic Legacy guards you against all but Evil weapons.
Prerequisites: Celestial Legacy
Benefit: You gain damage reduction (overcome by Evil) equal to 1 + the number of feats you have that list Celestial Legacy as a prerequisite (including such feats that you take after gaining this one). For example, if you have Celestial Skin and Celestial Presence, you would have damage reduction 3/Evil. This value stacks with any similar damage reduction you might have from your type, subtype, race, or class, but not from other sources, such as spells or magic items.

Chaos Legacy:

FEY LEGACY [LEGACY]
You are descended from creatures native to the fey realms. You are naturally resistant to the most common effects produced by your ancestors.
Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against enchantment effects.

FEY HERITAGE [LEGACY]
The magical powers of your ancestors manifest in you.
Prerequisites: Fey Legacy, character level 9th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: confusion, dimension door, and summon nature's ally V. Your caster level equals your character level.

FEY POWER [LEGACY]
Your fey LEGACY augments the power of certain types of magic.
Prerequisites: Fey Legacy.
Benefit: Your caster level and save DCs for enchantment spells and warlock invocations increase by 1.

FEY PRESENCE [LEGACY]
You share your ancestors' knack for playing tricks on the minds of others.
Prerequisites: Fey Legacy, character level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: charm monster, deep slumber, and disguise self. Your caster level equals your character level.

FEY SKIN [LEGACY]
Your fey Legacy guards you against all weapons except those crafted from the dreaded cold iron.
Prerequisites: Fey Legacy.
Benefit: You gain damage reduction (overcome by cold iron) equal to 1 + the number of feats you have that list Fey Legacy as a prerequisite (including such feats that you take after gaining this one). For example, if you have Fey Skin and Fey Presence, you would have damage reduction 3/cold iron. This value stacks with any similar damage reduction you might have from your type, subtype, race, or class, but not from other sources, such as spells or magic items.

Lawful Legacy:

INFERNAL LEGACY [LEGACY]
You are descended from creatures native to the upper realms. You are naturally resistant to the most common effects produced by your ancestors.
Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against Charm effects.

INFERNAL HERITAGE [LEGACY]
The magical powers of your ancestors manifest in you.
Prerequisites: Infernal Legacy, character level 9th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: Speak with Dead, Order’s Wrath, and summon nature's ally V (Lawful creatures only). Your caster level equals your character level.

INFERNAL POWER [LEGACY]
Your Infernal Legacy augments the power of certain types of magic.
Prerequisites: Infernal Legacy
Benefit: Your caster level and save DCs for Charm spells and warlock invocations increase by 1.

INFERNAL PRESENCE [LEGACY]
You share your ancestors' knack for playing tricks on the minds of others.
Prerequisites: Infernal Legacy, character level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: charm monster, Blindness/Deafness, and disguise self. Your caster level equals your character level.

INFERNAL SKIN [LEGACY]
Your Infernal Legacy guards you against all weapons except those crafted from the dreaded cold iron.
Prerequisites: Infernal Legacy.
Benefit: You gain damage reduction (overcome by Chaos) equal to 1 + the number of feats you have that list Infernal Legacy as a prerequisite (including such feats that you take after gaining this one). For example, if you have Infernal Skin and Infernal Presence, you would have damage reduction 3/cold iron. This value stacks with any similar damage reduction you might have from your type, subtype, race, or class, but not from other sources, such as spells or magic items.

Lawful Legacy:

ELEMENTAL LEGACY [LEGACY]
You are descended from creatures native to the elemental realms. You are naturally resistant to the most common effects produced by your ancestors.
Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against enchantment effects.

ELEMENTAL HERITAGE [LEGACY]
The magical powers of your ancestors manifest in you.
Prerequisites: Elemental Legacy, character level 9th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: confusion, dimension door, and summon nature's ally V. Your caster level equals your character level.

ELEMENTAL POWER [LEGACY]
Your Elemental Legacy augments the power of certain types of magic.
Prerequisites: Elemental Legacy.
Benefit: Your caster level and save DCs for enchantment spells and warlock invocations increase by 1.

ELEMENTAL PRESENCE [LEGACY]
You share your ancestors' knack for playing tricks on the minds of others.
Prerequisites: Elemental Legacy, character level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: charm monster, deep slumber, and disguise self. Your caster level equals your character level.

ELEMENTAL SKIN [LEGACY]
Your Elemental Legacy guards you against all weapons except those crafted from magic.
Prerequisites: Elemental Legacy.
Benefit: You gain damage reduction (overcome by magical weapons) equal to 1 + the number of feats you have that list Elemental Legacy as a prerequisite (including such feats that you take after gaining this one). For example, if you have Elemental Skin and Elemental Presence, you would have damage reduction 3/magic. This value stacks with any similar damage reduction you might have from your type, subtype, race, or class, but not from other sources, such as spells or magic items.


Regardless of the source of his talent, the warlock might represent a heretofore "missing link" between arcane magic and innate magic—a link in the great chain that spans the distance between the racial abilities of the dragon, archon, fey, or devil and the learned abilities of the wizard. Only time will tell if these strange individuals are destined to remain exceptions to the general rules of magic, or if they presage a growing tide of characters who wield power through their bloodline.