Trollblood prestige class (PEACH)

[Draconi Redfir]

Trollblood

There have been stories of men who can fight without fear, face an entire army alone and emerge with naught but a single scratch, any damage taken by these men seems to just make them stronger, any wound given just seems to seal itself up. These men are Trollbloods, Men who have changed their lives forever through an irreversible process. These men are notoriously hard to kill, but those who are unprepared or do not know what they are, may quickly regret their success in doing so.

Trollblood

Requirements: Rage ability twice a day, Diehard feat, Endurance feat, Base attack bonus of at least +5, 5 ranks in craft (Alchemy), At least one vial of Troll's blood.

special Before taking any levels in Trollblood, one must Drink a potion made of diluted Troll's blood. This potion requires a DC 20 Alchemy check to create. Should the DC fail; there is a 10% chance of a Troll growing out of the vial of blood instantly. There is also a 50% chance that any failed attempts at creating the potion will render the vial of blood useless, requiring the character to obtain a new one. Notice: This potion may be created by non-spellcasters

Class skills
The Trollblood's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist( Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate(Cha), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Ride (Dex), and Survival (Wis).

Proficiencies
A Trollblood is proficient in all Simple and Martial weapons (As well as any exotic weapons with Troll in it's name), all light, medium, or heavy armours, and all shields ( except for tower shields).

Skill points at each level
4 + Int modifier.

Hit die
d12.

Trollblood
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Burst curse, Troll Regeneration 3

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|Damage reduction 1/-,

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Recovering Rage, Troll Regeneration 6

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Damage reduction 2/-,

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Second Chance, Troll Regeneration 9

6th|
+6|
+5|
+2|
+2|Damage reduction 3/-

7th|
+7|
+5|
+2|
+2|Troll Regeneration 12

8th|
+8|
+6|
+2|
+2|Damage reduction 4/-, base or moisture

9th|
+9|
+6|
+3|
+3|Troll Regeneration 15

10th|
+10|
+7|
+3|
+3|Troll Regeneration 20, Damage reduction 5/-, Inner Troll[/table]


Burst curse (Ex):( The potion which gave the Trollblood it's awesome powers, also bears with it a terrible curse. Should a Trollblood ever die, 1d4 Trolls will burst out of its corpse and begin attacking any non-Trolls they see. However the Trolls will not emerge from the corpse for 1d4 rounds. Casting a spell to preserve the corpse will prevent the Trolls from emerging, as well as resetting the die roll until the duration of the spell ends. Burning or completely submerging the Trollblood's corpse in acid will ensure no trolls emerge.

Troll Fast Healing (Ex): The Trollblood recovers an amount of hit points each round equal to the number indicated + Con modifier. this amount increases by three every odd numbered level, and spikes up by five for the tenth level. Trollbloods may also regrow lost limbs or other body parts in 1d4 days, decreasing to 2d12hours at 5th level. Damage done by acid or fire damage may not be recovered using regeneration.

Damage reduction(Ex): Starting at 2nd level the Trollblood gains damage reduction, decrease any damage caused by a weapon or natural attack by the indicated number, a Trollblood's damage reduction may not exceed 5.

Recovering rage(Ex): starting at level three, a Trollblood may gain stacking temporary hitpoints any time they deal damage while in a rage, bonus damage (such as Str or magical damage bonuses) do not apply to this. Total number of temporary hit points is equal to one half the damage delt to a single opponent. when hitting an enemy with a conformed critical strike, the Trollblood gains temporary hitpoints equal to their Con modifier x2. These temporary hit points may stack with the temporary hit points gained through non-critical strikes, however the total number of temporary hit points on a Trollblood may not exceed their Trollblood level +Con modifier.Notice: This ability only works while the Trollblood is raging, temporary hitpoints gained remain even after rage ends, and last until used up or the Trollblood rests, whichever comes first.

Second chance(Ex): Starting at 5th level, there is a 25% chance of a Trollblood's mind being reborn into one of the Trolls bursting out of the Trollblood's corpse upon death. Should this occur, the Trollblood player must play, and survive as a troll NPC for a single day, and use the Tolls NPC ability scores accordingly. Should the player survive the full day as a troll, they may generate a new character (Including ability scores) using the template here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm)(All level adjustments and Racial hit die must be accounted for, and any class(es) other then Trollblood may be chosen. Some adjustments may be needed depending on the edition).

Base or moisture(Ex): At level eight, a Trollblood may choose to remove one of the two counters to it's fast healing. This choice may only be made once, and may not be reversed.

Inner Troll(Ex): At tenth level, the Trollblood has become so powerful thanks to the Troll's blood running through him that he gains +4 to his Str and Con, darkvision 60ft, and two 1d6+str natural claw weapons.



Mostly I wanted to create a Constitution-centred class that can fight multiple enemies at once for an extended period of time and still survive. I was hoping to wait until after I finished reworking the dual-natured race me and Lix-lorn made a few months ago, but this thing has just been building up inside me and i had to do it. Sorry Lix!


What do you guys think? Persionally i think i should do something more with the rage bit. cant think of anything though.

[Dumbledore lives]

I think it's quite a nice idea, the ability to be a troll, but as a non-spellcaster craft (alchemy) won't do anything, so those would all be wasted ranks.

A few other minor things like the BAB and the saves are a little bit odd, you might want to consider just making it full BAB with a fighter fort save and other saves bad. The skills should also probably be made either 2+int or 4+int, as generally it is an even number.

I'm not sure damage reduction applies to energy damage anyway, though you could make this special I guess.

[Draconi Redfir]

I think it's quite a nice idea, the ability to be a troll, but as a non-spellcaster craft (alchemy) won't do anything, so those would all be wasted ranks.

i put those there so the player could attempt to create the potion himself without the aid of another. but i do see what you are getting at.


A few other minor things like the BAB and the saves are a little bit odd, you might want to consider just making it full BAB with a fighter fort save and other saves bad. The skills should also probably be made either 2+int or 4+int, as generally it is an even number.

Ahh ok. i just did what came to mind first with the BAB and saves. i'll change them if someone else thinks they should be fixed somehow.

[Benly]

You really should use standard BAB and save progressions. And skill points per level. And also your class doesn't have a hit die. And also the requirements are kind of problematic since Craft (alchemy) is only technically available to spellcasters; the potion should probably be brewable with the Heal check.

[Draconi Redfir]

Ahh thanks for the bit about the hit dice, compleatly didint notice that.

Anyways i lowered the skill points to 4+Int, removed the alchemy prereq, made 10 ranks in heal nessisary, fixed up the BAB and saves, and added the option to use a heal check to produce the potion instead of an alchemy check at the cost of a higher DC.

[Benly]

You still need to standardize saves.

What is your intended entry for this class? As it is, you'll need to multiclass to meet the requirements.

[Draconi Redfir]

What exactly is wrong with the saves? they dont compleatly skip a number like they did before, and almost every class has two or more levels with identicle saves.


Entry class is supposed to be barbarian, dont see how that would require multiclassing.

[Benly]

What exactly is wrong with the saves? they dont compleatly skip a number like they did before, and almost every class has two or more levels with identicle saves.

Classes have standardized progressions for "strong save" and "weak save". Look at any save progression on any published class or prestige class and it'll be one of two progressions. Use those.



Entry class is supposed to be barbarian, dont see how that would require multiclassing.

Barbarian doesn't have Heal as a class skill, so you won't be able to enter until level 17 without multiclassing. Cross-class skills have half the maximum ranks that class skills do.

A barbarian/ranger can enter it in reasonable time, but that's the only legal entry I can think of that doesn't lose BAB or require some shenanigans to get Heal on your skill list.

[Draconi Redfir]

It says ranks as a requirement, not total score. a barbarian putting ten ranks into heal will only give it five heal score (assumeing no other bonuses) But it still has ten ranks.

[Benly]

It says ranks as a requirement, not total score. a barbarian putting ten ranks into heal will only give it five heal score (assumeing no other bonuses) But it still has ten ranks.

From the SRD:

"If you buy a class skill, your character gets 1 rank (equal to a +1 bonus on checks with that skill) for each skill point. If you buy other classes’ skills (cross-class skills), you get 1/2 rank per skill point.

Your maximum rank in a class skill is your character level + 3.

Your maximum rank in a cross-class skill is one-half of this number (do not round up or down)."

Your maximum rank in a cross-class skill is not 10 until level 17. ((17 + 3) / 2 = 10)

[Draconi Redfir]

Raauuuughhh fixed

[Benly]

Raauuuughhh fixed

Unfortunately, "must have spent at least 10 skill points on Heal" also makes it possible to qualify very early. There's a reason no existing PrCs use this qualification method.

As a human with +1 Intelligence bonus, take your first level in Barbarian. Spend four skill points to get to two ranks, your current maximum.

Take your second level as Ranger. Your maximum is now as if it were a class skill. Do not buy any ranks this level.

Take your third level as a barbarian and spend all six of your skill points bringing the skill up to 5; you have the class-skill maximum but on this level spend points as a crossclass skill.

Take your fourth level as a Trollblood.


Is it counterintuitive? Yes, which is why this particular prerequisite is problematic. Also, you still need to standardize the saving throws.

[Tacitus]

Its never going to use Heal or Nature other than as entry requirements, so why not put them at like 2 ranks each and put in a BAB requirement? Its a combatant, so the BAB requirement is fairly standard fare. Even something like Warshaper has a BAB requirement. Or hell, specify Rage 2/day. That either requires Barbarian 4+ or yet another feat for Extra Rage.

Also, if the hp recovery mechanic does not transform damage to nonlethal it should be noted as Fast Healing. Regeneration and Fast Healing work very very differently, and though fast healing usually isn't shut off like regeneration (in the case of acid and fire here), there is precedence with the Inevitables, which have fast healing except in regards to damage dealt by chaotic weapons. The amount of fast healing is also somewhat problematic. Up to 20 PLUS your con modifier is pretty damned massive for anyone, and only gets better in Rage.

The damage reduction is worded poorly. Damage Reduction is bypassed by all energy damage by default (thats what Energy Resistance is for). On the extreme, you might even currently be implying that it applies to all energy types as well, including Vile, Negative, and Divine. DR 5/- over 10 levels is more than good enough on top of Fast Healing 20+Con.

[Merk]

This class needs more troll abilities other than damage reduction and regeneration. From quickly googling "troll mythology":


These beings have some very extraordinary and useful properties; they can, for instance, go about invisibly, [g] or turn themselves into any shape; they can foresee future events; they can confer prosperity, or the contrary, on a family; they can bestow bodily strength on any one; and, in short, perform numerous feats beyond the power of man.

[Draconi Redfir]

Its never going to use Heal or Nature other than as entry requirements, so why not put them at like 2 ranks each and put in a BAB requirement? Its a combatant, so the BAB requirement is fairly standard fare. Even something like Warshaper has a BAB requirement. Or hell, specify Rage 2/day. That either requires Barbarian 4+ or yet another feat for Extra Rage.

Heal, nature (And alchemy) Were supposed to show that the character can recover it's own wounds, understands the creature it is about to take the traits of, and be able to dilute the blood into the potion all on their own. But i like your ideas about the BAB and rage requirements. I’ll add them in.


Also, if the hp recovery mechanic does not transform damage to nonlethal it should be noted as Fast Healing. Regeneration and Fast Healing work very very differently, and though fast healing usually isn't shut off like regeneration (in the case of acid and fire here), there is precedence with the Inevitables, which have fast healing except in regards to damage dealt by chaotic weapons. The amount of fast healing is also somewhat problematic. Up to 20 PLUS your con modifier is pretty damned massive for anyone, and only gets better in Rage.

What are you talking about? regeneration in trolls recovers hit points recently lost. Ok just checked and while it does turn damage into nonleathal...
Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Emphasis mine. it's essentially the same thing, he recovers hitpoints equal to the amount indicated. And a warrior-type with massive regeneration is what i was going for. someone who can win a fight against an army out of pure attrition alone and still be the last man standing.


The damage reduction is worded poorly. Damage Reduction is bypassed by all energy damage by default (thats what Energy Resistance is for). On the extreme, you might even currently be implying that it applies to all energy types as well, including Vile, Negative, and Divine. DR 5/- over 10 levels is more than good enough on top of Fast Healing 20+Con.

Ohh ok, i assumed creatures with damage reduction reduced damage from ANYTHING other then what was indicated (The existence of damage reduction X/ magic got me confused) I'll set it up to just plain damage reduction then.


This class needs more troll abilities other than damage reduction and regeneration. From quickly googling "troll mythology":

That’s from real-life trolls, not D&D trolls. Maybe I could ad in a 10ft reach with certain weapons when raging?

Edit: Does regeneration work if you are in negative hitpoints but stabilized? If not maybe i could add in an ability that allows the Trollblood to make a heal check on himself as a standard action to recover from negative hitpoints.

[Benly]

Craft (alchemy) can only be used by spellcasters. While technically a legal class skill for barbarians, it's one they can't ever use without multiclassing.

Also, your saves still need fixing.

Regeneration is not "essentially the same thing" as fast healing. With fast healing, you just have to damage a creature faster than it heals. A creature with regeneration is impossible to kill if you don't have the damage that overcomes its regeneration, because all the damage you ever inflict will be nonlethal. Regeneration is much more powerful.

[Draconi Redfir]

Craft (alchemy) can only be used by spellcasters. While technically a legal class skill for barbarians, it's one they can't ever use without multiclassing.

even when the potion in question clearly states it can be made by a non spellcaster?


Also, your saves still need fixing.

What exactly is wrong with the saves?




Regeneration is not "essentially the same thing" as fast healing. With fast healing, you just have to damage a creature faster than it heals. A creature with regeneration is impossible to kill if you don't have the damage that overcomes its regeneration, because all the damage you ever inflict will be nonlethal. Regeneration is much more powerful.

i see, so what could we do to fix the problem? just state somewere that it funcions as a permanent fast healing spell that can be overcome by acid or fire damage?

[Benly]

What exactly is wrong with the saves?

Classes have standardized progressions for "strong save" and "weak save". Look at any save progression on any published class or prestige class and it'll be one of two progressions. Use those.



even when the potion in question clearly states it can be made by a non spellcaster?
Well, they'll never be able to use Alchemy to produce anything other than that one potion. So it really is sort of a waste, and it's counterintuitive that they're training up that skill when they're not allowed to make the things it produces.


i see, so what could we do to fix the problem? just state somewere that it funcions as a permanent fast healing spell that can be overcome by acid or fire damage?
You could say that they have fast healing of the relevant amount, and grant regeneration at a higher level in the class. In general I think it would behoove you to familiarize yourself better with the relevant rules before trying to make a class.

[Draconi Redfir]

My apologies for thinking an ability called "Regeneration" used by a race commonly known for regaining lost hit points would have anything to do with regaining hit points:smallannoyed:

Edit:


Well, they'll never be able to use Alchemy to produce anything other than that one potion. So it really is sort of a waste, and it's counterintuitive that they're training up that skill when they're not allowed to make the things it produces.

Small price to pay for health regeneration don’t you think?

[Fable Wright]

1. This class would make for a great 1-level dip, especially if you actually made it normal regeneration.
2. It does essentially recover lost hit points. However, it also makes it so that you can't kill them if you brought the wrong element, giving them more time to recover said hit points. And they don't recover hit points lost from those element's damage. Honestly, it would also make it easier for play if you just had it normal regeneration, so you don't have to record X normal damage, Y fire damage, and so on. Regeneration only heals nonlethal hit points, and causes lethal hit point damage to become nonlethal if it's from the wrong element. It's easier to keep track of.

[Benly]

Small price to pay for health regeneration don’t you think?

Yes, but think of it from an in-character standpoint: you're a barbarian who, for some reason, is training to become the world's foremost expert in alchemy even though it will never be possible for you to make any potion except this one.

Maybe use Survival to reflect your skill in hunting and preparing the extracted valuable parts from your fallen enemy?

[Cieyrin]

Troll Regeneration seems a bit much to me. Like, yeah, it's bloody useful, it's just perhaps a bit overpowering, I think. It's kinda a nerfed fast healing, basically.

Do Recovering Rage's stack or do you only get the highest total? Is there a duration for how long those temp hit points last? You may also want to just make it a critical effect, rather than number crunching each time you hit, plus it's an easy way to find out enemy AC, which your DM may not appreciate.

[vikingofdoom]

I agree that Recovering Rage should be based on a critical hit; however, that does weaken it significantly, so making it be based on damage would be better (perhaps the formula being damage before DR/5 or something). This would prevent you from discovering anything you didn't know about the enemy, while making Fluff sense.

On a basic note, your saves are too high by standard save progressions, Fort should be (+2, +3, +3, +4, +4, +5, +5, +6, +6, +7) while both Reflex and Will should be (+0, +0, +1, +1, +2, +2, +2, +3, +3). Those are listed for each level, starting from first.

[Draconi Redfir]

There’s a set save thing prestige classes always need to adhere too? odd.

Anyways, what if recovering rage added temp hitpoints equal to... BAB + Con? Though personally i wouldn’t mind stackable temporary hitpoints, and stacking that would probably be OP.


and... god dangit i had an idea to add to a rage ability, what was it... god dangit i had it just four minutes ago... ahh well, might come back to me.

Edit: Removed heal requirements, reduced Alchemy requirements, removed ability to create potion with a heal check, and completely reworked the recovering rage ability. Any better?

[Cieyrin]

Uh...you may want to rewrite it again, you lost some words there. :smallconfused:

[Draconi Redfir]

Uh...you may want to rewrite it again, you lost some words there. :smallconfused:

Looks fine to me. what do you mean?

[Cieyrin]

Reading it again, it's that it says "move then," instead of "more than," which was what threw me off.

[Draconi Redfir]

Reading it again, it's that it says "move then," instead of "more than," which was what threw me off.

woops, sorry. fixed it.

[LOTRfan]

How long does it take for the troll to grow from the vial on a failed DC alchemy check?

[Draconi Redfir]

How long does it take for the troll to grow from the vial on a failed DC alchemy check?

Considering you need to roll 10 or less on a 100-sided die, I think instantaneous would be fair. Edited the potion bit to fix that.

Also: what would you guys think if i changed it so the Trollblood was a spellcaster class that just focused mostly on melee combat? Sort of like a how a paladin is like a fighter with spells or something. this would fix the whole alchemy issue since as a spellcaster it wont be dead ranks anymore, and it would give players in a high-magic world the option to play magical fighters. (I remember i once read a thread about a guy who was DMing a world in which not using/knowing magic was a sin or something like that, so he was looking for a magical melee class) Only issue i have is what spells to give them. healing spells would probably work well with the fluff, but considering the regeneration and the damage reduction, i think that would just make them a little overpowered. Maybe they could just be loaded with self-buffing spells?

Also also: "Damage done by acid or fire damage may not be recovered using regeneration." do you think it should be changed to "Damage done by acid or fire damage may not be recovered using regeneration for 24 hours." or something like that?

[Ernir]

First of all, I really like your concept. Trolls are classic for being hard to kill, I wonder why I haven't seen a PrC making use of that before.

Which is going to make the comments I am about to make soudn more disapproving than they really are. :S


I think there's not much wrong with the mechanics, but they do ignore quite a few conventions that D&D 3.5 has.
There's nothing inherently wrong with being unconventional, but doing so without good reason might subconsciously make people think of the class as "weird", and ignore it. Which I assume you don't want.


The requirements: 3.5 PrCs never require a certain ability score to enter. Ability score prerequisites in general are usually given in odd numbers.

On the class features: Each class feature should specify whether it is an extraordinary (Ex) ability, or a supernatural (Su) ability. I don't see anything resembling a Spell-like ability (Sp), so those probably don't matter.

The Troll Regeneration class feature: Healing a certain amount of hit points at the start of each round is a special ability called Fast Healing, and should be named as such. Regeneration is a related, but much more powerful ability. I actually thought you were giving that one out for free.
An actual problem here, too: You need to specify whether "hit points each round equal to the number indicated + Con" is referring to the Constitution score or the Constitution modifier.


The Damage reduction class feature: Unusual wording, with potential side effects. Compare to the Barbarian entry:

At 7th level, a barbarian gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the barbarian takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 10th level, and every three barbarian levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.
The important differences are that your wording implies it applies to spell damage (which the Damage Reduction special ability generally doesn't), and that even if he gains DR from other sources, he is forever capped at 5.

The Recovering rage class feature: What happens to weapons with two damage dice, like a falchion or a greatsword?
Honestly, it sounds a lot more simple to just cut the amount of temporary HP in half or so, and have it work on every hit. =/

The Second chance class feature: I think you should lay out some character generation guidelines for this. Do you suffer all of the troll's LA? Do you keep any of your class levels? Can you use your own ability scores and the troll's racial modifiers, or do you use the ability scores given in the basic troll statblock? And so on.

The Base or moisture class feature: The DR, as it is written, is not overcome by anything, so this only applies to the "regeneration".

The Inner Troll class feature: I'd have the reach be "as normal for a creature of the Trollblooded's size category" or something, rather than fixed at 5'. Would be annoying for Enlarge-ed fighters, and kind of silly for things like pixies. :smalltongue:


Also: what would you guys think if i changed it so the Trollblood was a spellcaster class that just focused mostly on melee combat? Sort of like a how a paladin is like a fighter with spells or something. this would fix the whole alchemy issue since as a spellcaster it wont be dead ranks anymore, and it would give players in a high-magic world the option to play magical fighters. (I remember i once read a thread about a guy who was DMing a world in which not using/knowing magic was a sin or something like that, so he was looking for a magical melee class) Only issue i have is what spells to give them. healing spells would probably work well with the fluff, but considering the regeneration and the damage reduction, i think that would just make them a little overpowered. Maybe they could just be loaded with self-buffing spells?
I'd rather see them with a Tiger Claw maneuver progression than an actual spellcasting progression. Spellcasting troll warriors? :smalltongue:

Also also: "Damage done by acid or fire damage may not be recovered using regeneration." do you think it should be changed to "Damage done by acid or fire damage may not be recovered using regeneration for 24 hours." or something like that?
I think it's fine as-is.


Good job! :smallsmile:

[Draconi Redfir]

*Awesome critiquing*

Awesome thanks for the help! Just edited it, and I;

Removed Con requirement (might need to replace that with something)

Renamed Troll regeneration “Troll Fast Healing” and adjusted the Con error

Edited damage reduction

Edited second chance

And Edited inner Troll.

How's it look now? (also; Not sure what tiger claw maneuvers are, sorry)

[ZardozSpeaks]

Interesting Class, thematically it fits my current character extremely well. Mechanically, I managed to get similar and better features through feats and base classes. I combined the Troll-Blooded feat (Regen 1) with the Pugilist's Iron Jaw class feature (DR con mod/vs nonlethal). Regen turns everything but fire and acid into nonlethal. To make the combo even stronger I grabed a level in wizard and a tiny viper familiar. I combined that with the Poison Healer feat, so every time my snake bites me I heal damage equal to my con mod. This has proved a pretty effective combo, and still allowed me to take lots of other classes to focus on Grappling and Raging.

The Burst Curse ability is pretty weird to me, Trolls are sentient beings. I'm sure they would have very existential questions about their existence and strange birth. What about the creatures regeneration running wild when they die, turning into some kind of non-sentient undead blob. Kind of like cancer, cells reproducing without check in erratic fashions. It could be a template that gets tossed over the PC, and might prove a better scaling challenge than trolls.

[Draconi Redfir]

There's a Troll-blooded feat!? Dangit that might mess up this whole thing.

Dunno bout the Troll-cancer thing, I’d probably need to create a whole new creature just for that, which would seem kind of pointless. Plus I’m pretty sure entire Trolls have been born from severed arms or something; they don't seem to care as far as i know.