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View Full Version : Paper doesn't age well, does it?



Haruki-kun
2011-03-10, 08:59 PM
So I notice that some of the older books in my manga collection, when compared to some of the newer ones are starting to turn darker. This is a bit sad, I'd prefer it if they could keep their color. :smallfrown:

I don't really have very high hopes, but does anyone know how to preserve collections? (Applies to other sorts of collections, too, like DVDs and such.)

CynicalAvocado
2011-03-10, 09:08 PM
plastic sleeves? when you want to read one, take it out, put it back in when you're done.

'ts what i do with my comics

araveugnitsuga
2011-03-10, 09:11 PM
For mangas and comic books I scan them or take photographs, it also gives me portability since I don't really want to damage the originals by moving them around.

DVDs I just keep them in their case if movies, or if personal data, it all goes to an external hard drive.

CynicalAvocado
2011-03-10, 09:15 PM
what's your favorite in your collection?

mine are my Venom comics:smallbiggrin:

Haruki-kun
2011-03-10, 09:17 PM
For mangas and comic books I scan them or take photographs, it also gives me portability since I don't really want to damage the originals by moving them around.

DVDs I just keep them in their case if movies, or if personal data, it all goes to an external hard drive.

Oh, but the box is what I want to protect. The CD's are all fine. Same way with Manga, I want to conserve the actual book. :smallfrown:


what's your favorite in your collection?

mine are my Venom comics:smallbiggrin:

To be honest, I don't really collect western comic books, only a few selected Manga. I suppose my favorite would be xxxHOLiC. Which I ALMOST have completed. Don't even want to read the ending until I have all of them.

Anxe
2011-03-10, 09:21 PM
Putting them in a vacuum sealed plastic bag of some kind works best. I don't do it with any of mine, but I've seen other collections that are preserved amazingly well by just wrapping the comics in plastic. The best collection I saw just used some kind of sheet plastic. It was like thick syran wrap except not sticky. The person made different sized bags for the various books by cutting up the sheet plastic. A bag could then be made by taping the sheet plastic into a cylinder around the book and taping the cylinder shut. Hope that helps.

Serpentine
2011-03-10, 10:52 PM
Interesting tidbit for you: my newspapers from the 1870s are in much, much better shape than the ones from the 1910s, which literally crumble away if you're not extremely careful. Apparently, somewhere between those years they switched from a fibrous, cloth-like "paper" to proper all-wood paper, which doesn't last nearly as well.

Might wanna try contacting an archive or somesuch for advice. I think all I can suggest is keeping them away from light and damp.

Kneenibble
2011-03-10, 10:54 PM
@^ It's the way they processed those fibres too -- chemicals used to prepare wood fibres for paper cause deterioration, before they learned (or cared) what it was doing.

Carr McLean (or Karmaclean as I call them) is where I order all my stuff at work, but they are Canadian. Where are you again? - like Mexico or something? I'm sure there's an equivalent company closer to you anyways;

But to give you an idea of the kind of thing you'd want. (http://www.carrmclean.ca/CategoryGroupBrowser.aspx?CategoryID=230&GroupNo=1329)

The problem is, if your itemz are not printed on good quality paper, there's really nothing you can do to save them. Correct storage cannot help deterioration that comes from the paper and ink itself. How old are they?

Haruki-kun
2011-03-10, 11:21 PM
@^ It's the way they processed those fibres too -- chemicals used to prepare wood fibres for paper cause deterioration, before they learned (or cared) what it was doing.

Carr McLean (or Karmaclean as I call them) is where I order all my stuff at work, but they are Canadian. Where are you again? - like Mexico or something? I'm sure there's an equivalent company closer to you anyways;

But to give you an idea of the kind of thing you'd want. (http://www.carrmclean.ca/CategoryGroupBrowser.aspx?CategoryID=230&GroupNo=1329)

The problem is, if your itemz are not printed on good quality paper, there's really nothing you can do to save them. Correct storage cannot help deterioration that comes from the paper and ink itself. How old are they?

About.... 3 or 4 years. They're just turning a bit yellowish, brownish, that's all. And yeah,Mexico.

Anyway, those bags look good, I'll see if I can find them somewhere around here, or maybe if I visit the US sometime int he near future. Problem is Manga Tomes don't really have the same size as comic books. But there's gotta be something I can use.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-10, 11:24 PM
Yeah, the acid in cheap paper makes it break down over time.
It really saddens me as much of the printed media of the 20th century has been printed on this crappy paper. It means that much of these works, priceless from a future historical perspective, will be lost.:smallfrown:

Kneenibble
2011-03-10, 11:27 PM
@^ Thank God for microforms!

Yellowing is definitely a symptom of non-acid-free paper degeneration. But after so short a time, it's unusual. Do you lick them much?

LaZodiac
2011-03-10, 11:27 PM
It occurs to me..would brail books have to worry about page fading? I mean, as they get older the pages becoming easier to tear when running your finger across, but I guess that's not much problem.

Any blind people in this playground able to confirm/deny?

arguskos
2011-03-10, 11:34 PM
Any blind people in this playground able to confirm/deny?
Not to be terribly crass, but I know of no blind individuals who read forums, an inherently text-based medium. Seems an odd question, no? :smallconfused:

aart lover
2011-03-10, 11:39 PM
well, to preserve it's 1000 year old books, the vatican uses an air-tight underground chamber. but i'm guessing you don't have one:smalltongue:. so my suggestion would be to put them in plastic sleeves, and keep them away from light(because exposure to light is what really makes the pages turn dark).

Trazoi
2011-03-10, 11:41 PM
That's why there's acid-free paper, for documents that need to last. Graduate thesis dissertations often have the rule that the final bound version needs to be printed on acid-free paper so it can last in the archives for ages.

Not much use for your manga, unfortunately. I'd also recommend scanning if possible and then keeping it airtight and dark if you really want it to keep.


Not to be terribly crass, but I know of no blind individuals who read forums, an inherently text-based medium. Seems an odd question, no? :smallconfused:
Text-based webpages actually make it easier to access for the visually impaired, because they're perfect for text-to-speech programs. Images, not so much (unless you're a stickler for correctly filling out the alt tags).

arguskos
2011-03-10, 11:44 PM
Text-based webpages actually make it easier to access for the visually impared, because they're perfect for text-to-speech programs. Images, not so much (unless you're a stickler for correctly filling out the alt tags).
Well, ok then. Still, I maintain it's a kinda odd question, but fair enough. I stand suitably chastised.

Dr.Epic
2011-03-10, 11:45 PM
So I notice that some of the older books in my manga collection, when compared to some of the newer ones are starting to turn darker. This is a bit sad, I'd prefer it if they could keep their color. :smallfrown:

I don't really have very high hopes, but does anyone know how to preserve collections? (Applies to other sorts of collections, too, like DVDs and such.)

You could see if they off downloads you can buy and save them to your computer so you never have to worry about the physical form decaying.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-10, 11:45 PM
Not to be terribly crass, but I know of no blind individuals who read forums, an inherently text-based medium. Seems an odd question, no? :smallconfused:
*cough* There is text to speech programs out there that can assist the visually disabled in this regard.
As for the paper yellowing so fast, newsprint yellows especially fast. I have seen papers but a few weeks old already take a decidedly more yellowish hue then newer editions.
Also, sweat has acid in it. That's why some collectors tend to whine so much about people actually reading their priceless collection beyond the normal wear and tear. What kind of manga are you reading?:smalltongue:

LaZodiac
2011-03-10, 11:48 PM
Not to be terribly crass, but I know of no blind individuals who read forums, an inherently text-based medium. Seems an odd question, no? :smallconfused:

You already got the text to speech thing, but then there is also the chance of a former seeing person having someone read his favorite forum for him, or something like that.

Anyway, even if my books will eventually decay, I'll forever love them. Nothing beats feeling paper in my hands.

Haruki-kun
2011-03-10, 11:50 PM
It occurs to me..would brail books have to worry about page fading?

Ink isn't really fading or anything, though. It's just the color of thepages that's odd.


Do you lick them much?

I.... what? :smalleek:

Icewalker
2011-03-11, 01:21 AM
I.... what? :smalleek:

Is that a yes?

Dr.Epic
2011-03-11, 01:26 AM
Is that a yes?

Hey, who doesn't lick comics? League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is so much more enjoyable when you experience it with you taste buds!!!:smallwink:

Nibleswick
2011-03-11, 01:35 AM
After all, a good book should engage all your senses.

Dr.Epic
2011-03-11, 01:36 AM
After all, a good book should engage all your senses.

Just be careful with touch. Paper cuts=ouch.:smalleek:

Amiel
2011-03-11, 02:15 AM
Tangentially, the condition of the paper depends on the composition of the paper; you'll notice that many historical manuscripts and documents have aged remarkably well (especially those of a religious nature). Nowadays, pulp novels and especially newspapers are made with ink and paper of poor quality.

factotum
2011-03-11, 02:19 AM
Ink isn't really fading or anything, though. It's just the color of thepages that's odd.


As already mentioned, that's the acids in the paper breaking it down, and eventually (after a few decades) it will cause the paper to disintegrate. Not much you can do about it--you can slow down the process by making sure the paper is kept in a dry atmosphere, I think, but that's about it.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-11, 02:24 AM
I used to love the smell of old yellowing pages.
Then I found out it was the smell of dying books, and that made me sad.:smallfrown:

Eldan
2011-03-11, 03:30 AM
I still love the smell of old paper. Nothing compares to it. They are dying, but they are dying in style, and dignity, and hanging on for future generations.

Dr.Epic
2011-03-11, 03:51 AM
I still love the smell of old paper. Nothing compares to it. They are dying, but they are dying in style, and dignity, and hanging on for future generations.

I've recently grown accustom to the smell of iron and steel.

Eldan
2011-03-11, 03:53 AM
I've grown accustomed to the smell of dead insects and formaldehyde. Doesn't mean I don't like paper more :smalltongue:

Amiel
2011-03-11, 04:41 AM
Eucalyptus oil should be requisite in paper manufacturing; or at least an oil that improves the smell of the paper.

Dr.Epic
2011-03-11, 04:45 AM
Maybe we should start writing on sheets of steel. It'll make out paper more durable and more METAL!!!

RandomNPC
2011-03-11, 04:46 AM
I work in a print shop. With a storeage system made specificly to keep things from getting yellowed paper or color loss in the ink, we can keep our samples for 90 days at most. Fact of the matter is paper doesn't last long, especially if there's considerable ink on it.

Granted our 90 days is for the slightest change, noticable without the aid of computerized color detection and whatnot, but generally by the time you get something home, the paper is already different from the printshop paper.

On a more noticable level, a sealed baggie, and a dark room are the best storage conditions. I don't think you'll keep a book more than ten years if it's been bought more recently though. The saying "They don't make them like they used to" applies just about everywhere.

On a less relevant topic, if you see a paper label that says "printed with soy based ink" on just about anything, paint cans, sports drinks, cleaning chemicals, anything really, it's probaly a total lie, they just put it there to get enviromentalists to leave them alone.

Amiel
2011-03-11, 04:48 AM
Maybe we should start writing on sheets of steel. It'll make out paper more durable and more METAL!!!

The Norse carved out runes on stone, with their fists. Are you Norse enough to be Norse?

Dr.Epic
2011-03-11, 05:09 AM
The Norse carved out runes on stone, with their fists. Are you Norse enough to be Norse?

I'm gonna punch everything to leave my signature!

Brother Oni
2011-03-11, 07:27 AM
Alternately, get a stamp with your signature or other distinguishing mark, mounted on a signet ring, so you can literally punch your signature onto documents. :smallbiggrin:

If having a seal sounds a little old fashioned, chops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)) are still in use in Far Eastern countries.

Lord Loss
2011-03-11, 09:47 AM
That's odd. Perhaps it has to do with where you keep your manga? I keep my Death Note mangas on a bookshelf with a little bit of exposure to sunlight and the rest in the bookshelf part of my closet with almost no exposure to sunlight. The oldest amongst them are 3 years old and show no signs of age whatsoever.

Haruki-kun
2011-03-11, 10:18 AM
I work in a print shop. With a storeage system made specificly to keep things from getting yellowed paper or color loss in the ink, we can keep our samples for 90 days at most. Fact of the matter is paper doesn't last long, especially if there's considerable ink on it.

This is sad.... :smallfrown:


That's odd. Perhaps it has to do with where you keep your manga? I keep my Death Note mangas on a bookshelf with a little bit of exposure to sunlight and the rest in the bookshelf part of my closet with almost no exposure to sunlight. The oldest amongst them are 3 years old and show no signs of age whatsoever.

I keep them in my bookshelf, too. The problem is my bookshelf is in lovely humid and warm Mexico. Gonna go write "Manga conservation" in my list of reasons to move out...

Lord Loss
2011-03-11, 10:22 AM
This is sad.... :smallfrown:



I keep them in my bookshelf, too. The problem is my bookshelf is in lovely humid and warm Mexico. Gonna go write "Manga conservation" in my list of reasons to move out...

That would explain it. I live in the frigid wastes of the North Pole Canada and my bookshelves are almost always at an adequate temperature.

grimbold
2011-03-11, 02:32 PM
plastic sleeves? when you want to read one, take it out, put it back in when you're done.

'ts what i do with my comics
this is also my solution
because you;re right
paper doesnt age well

Dvil
2011-03-11, 02:35 PM
I have a random notebook I bought a couple of years ago, which I haven't used much in the meantime, and it's yellow. It was white when I bought it.

Phishfood
2011-03-11, 02:44 PM
Maybe we should start writing on sheets of steel. It'll make out paper more durable and more METAL!!!

I hope you are being...ironic....ah, I crack me up.

Anyhoo, it is quite annoying for books to die especially when they stop printing them quickly and you have 0 chance of replacing it. I will miss physical books but a server full of ebooks can last forever with sensible precautions meaning I can re-read anything forever hopefully.

Dr.Epic
2011-03-11, 05:07 PM
I hope you are being...ironic....ah, I crack me up.

I've heard that joke before. Where did you STEEL it from?:smallbiggrin:

Ravens_cry
2011-03-11, 06:40 PM
I've heard that joke before. Where did you STEEL it from?:smallbiggrin:
They ore-dered it online, but I doubt they have the metal to tell you that.:smalltongue:

PersonMan
2011-03-12, 07:47 AM
They ore-dered it online, but I doubt they have the metal to tell you that.:smalltongue:

Well, at least they didn't try to convince you with "It's mine, really".

Heh, because, you know, ore is from mines? ...It was difficult to find a way to make that one work.

Yeah, it seems like a region thing-I've got some old papers from a couple years ago that look fine. Apart from the usual stuff they get as a result of me using them as placemats...

aart lover
2011-03-13, 12:37 PM
Well, at least they didn't try to convince you with "It's mine, really".

Heh, because, you know, ore is from mines? ...It was difficult to find a way to make that one work.

Yeah, it seems like a region thing-I've got some old papers from a couple years ago that look fine. Apart from the usual stuff they get as a result of me using them as placemats...

i don't ZINC they're that dumb:smalltongue: