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Halae
2011-03-17, 08:02 PM
Normally, I have horrible insomnia. It's been this way for years - I can't sleep even when I try, and some nights I'm awake all night. Chronic migraines don't help.

but after moving in with a friend a few weeks ago, I can't seem to get up - I turn off my alarm clock without realizing it, I start feeling tired again after only two or three hours of wakefulness, and my sleep schedule has shattered into a million sharp, pointy pieces.

I'm starting to worry this may have bigger cause. Does anybody have any input for me?

CrimsonAngel
2011-03-17, 08:10 PM
Your friend may be drugging you.

Emperor Ing
2011-03-17, 08:13 PM
Chronic migraines

As someone who gets terrible migranes periodically, I think I found your problem.

Jarian
2011-03-17, 08:14 PM
Being in a new, relatively unfamiliar place will do that to you. Your sleep will not be as restful as when you're in a well-known place.

You could also be unfamiliar with the ambient noises of your new living area. I used to live within spitting distance of a busy highway; when my family first moved there, I couldn't sleep well for weeks because the sound of the traffic kept waking me up. Later, when I moved away to a more quiet area, I couldn't sleep because the lack of the traffic noises was unsettling.

My point is, there could be many causes for your new sleeping problems. It's pretty much impossible to give you a clear answer with so little information.

Joran
2011-03-17, 08:18 PM
Could be any number of things.

When I was in high school, I was tired all the time, to the point of taking naps during the SAT and AP exams.

Turns out I had obstructive sleep apnea and with CPAP treatment, it's much, much better now.

If you have the insurance, you can talk to a sleep physician to see if it's something physically wrong with you.

Gaelbert
2011-03-17, 08:26 PM
Before I was diagnosed with diabetes, I slept for about 23 hours a day. I would take a nap on the couch, wake up, move to a chair, then fall asleep again. You might want to have your blood sugar tested. Of course, I do say that about everything.

Don Julio Anejo
2011-03-17, 08:34 PM
Before I was diagnosed with diabetes, I slept for about 23 hours a day. I would take a nap on the couch, wake up, move to a chair, then fall asleep again. You might want to have your blood sugar tested. Of course, I do say that about everything.
No, you're right. Diabetes and anemia are some of the most common causes of being tired all the time. Other ones are lack of any exercise (even if it's just walking around to places), chlamydia or simply really bad sleep itself (i.e. little or no REM).

Halae
2011-03-17, 08:44 PM
From the ones said here, The most likely causes then are lack of exercise and lack of REM. I'm not worried about my blood sugar, as the friend I'm staying with stops at seven eleven on his way back from work every second day or so, so I'm getting no lack of sugar. I'll see about getting my blood sugar tested though, and another friend may be able to hook me up for learning about sleep apnea, so maybe that's it.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. Guess I'm going to go put those into practice now

Gaelbert
2011-03-17, 10:26 PM
From the ones said here, The most likely causes then are lack of exercise and lack of REM. I'm not worried about my blood sugar, as the friend I'm staying with stops at seven eleven on his way back from work every second day or so, so I'm getting no lack of sugar. I'll see about getting my blood sugar tested though, and another friend may be able to hook me up for learning about sleep apnea, so maybe that's it.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. Guess I'm going to go put those into practice now

The problem wouldn't be a lack of sugar (although that can be an issue). The problem in my case was sugar that wasn't being countered by insulin (too much sugar). You have symptoms when you have too much or too little sugar, to grossly oversimplify it.

Calmness
2011-03-17, 10:28 PM
From the ones said here, The most likely causes then are lack of exercise and lack of REM. I'm not worried about my blood sugar, as the friend I'm staying with stops at seven eleven on his way back from work every second day or so, so I'm getting no lack of sugar. I'll see about getting my blood sugar tested though, and another friend may be able to hook me up for learning about sleep apnea, so maybe that's it.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. Guess I'm going to go put those into practice now
Good man. That's a good start.

Serpentine
2011-03-17, 10:50 PM
Have you been consuming any mysterious pills lying around?
True story: My Boy's friend saw some tablets belonging to his mother, and thought - somehow - that they were vitamins. It said to just take a couple a day, but he was all "Pffft, I wanna be strong and healthy!" and took half a dozen or more a day. All of a sudden, he just couldn't wake up. He was sleepy all the time, and kept having naps.
Turns out these "vitamins" were a sleeping aide (like a mild sleeping tablet of some sort). His mother called him a moron.

Halae
2011-03-17, 10:53 PM
hehe, no I haven't been taking any pills of any kind whatsoever, except for the vitamin C tablets I take, since my stomach can't handle citrus. I've always been wary of medications because my brother has a lot of health problems, so I try to make damn sure what I'm taking before I take it

Amiel
2011-03-17, 10:58 PM
He's lucky to be called a moron by his mum; an overdose of sedating medication can potentially result in death.

Layyzor
2011-03-17, 11:03 PM
I think in any case your best option is to consult a medical professional, if you can. I personally donít really trust doctors but you should be careful self diagnosing yourself sometimes two entirely different conditions have more or less the same symptoms. Hope you get well soon!

Serpentine
2011-03-17, 11:09 PM
He's lucky to be called a moron by his mum; an overdose of sedating medication can potentially result in death.I think it was more along the lines of "natural" sleep aid than proper sleeping tablets, but yeah.

Toofey
2011-03-17, 11:12 PM
I would see a doctor, it could just be it's easier to sleep there for some reason and your body is making up what it can of your standing sleep deficit but there are quite a few, some rather serious, medical conditions that could be causing this as well.

Is anything else weird going on with you?

Halae
2011-03-17, 11:21 PM
Is anything else weird going on with you?

Not that I can tell, beyond being unemployed. The room is so warm and nice though. Well, except for the floor. That's damned cold, but I'm not exactly in contact with that when I'm sleeping. Anyways, I can't really see anything I'm doing as out of the ordinary from previous actions, and even the warm room bit has been done before with no different effect

golentan
2011-03-17, 11:23 PM
I think it was more along the lines of "natural" sleep aid than proper sleeping tablets, but yeah.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Cyanide is natural.

If the big change happened when you moved, (not a month or two after or before), it may be an environmental thing. Have you tried opening a window in your room at night: Fresh air can do wonders if it's a problem of fungus, chemical agents (counting cleaning fluids here), mice (they do... excrete), or poor ventilation.

And I will not accept "but it's cold" as an excuse. That's what blankets are for. I sleep in the buff with windows open in subzero temperatures.

Halae
2011-03-17, 11:31 PM
And I will not accept "but it's cold" as an excuse. That's what blankets are for. I sleep in the buff with windows open in subzero temperatures.

I'll try that tonight then. I have been sleeping with the window closed, and I spend a lot of time in here. and yes, I only moved here about a month ago

Serpentine
2011-03-17, 11:37 PM
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Cyanide is natural.I said "natural", not natural.

golentan
2011-03-17, 11:47 PM
Yeah, I'm just saying that the common side effects of sleep aids are related to how they almost always work, rather than their origin. Unless they're placeboshomeopathic, an overdose on a sleeping pill is an overdose on a sleeping pill regardless of how the bottle's labeled.

Serpentine
2011-03-17, 11:54 PM
*le sigh*
My point is, I think what he took is to sleeping tablets what, say, echinacea is to cold & flu medicine. It'll do something, but not nearly to the same degree. No doubt it's still possible to overdose, but it takes a lot more effort.

MoelVermillion
2011-03-18, 12:01 AM
I'm not worried about my blood sugar, as the friend I'm staying with stops at seven eleven on his way back from work every second day or so, so I'm getting no lack of sugar. I'll see about getting my blood sugar tested though, and another friend may be able to hook me up for learning about sleep apnea, so maybe that's it.


Consuming a lot of sugar means squat if you turn out to have a condition that prevents your body from properly processing it. Sometimes you can have underlying conditions you didn't know about so it's good to get tested now and then.

Cyrion
2011-03-18, 09:16 AM
What's your stress level like? If you've just moved, unemployment is recent or becoming an important issue, etc. your body could be reacting to the change in stress. You could suffer from either insomnia or needing excessive sleep as a result of stress.

Two other medical reasons you could be needing so much sleep- hypoglycemia or hypothyroidism. Migraines and needing lots of sleep are both symptoms of hypoglycemia, and lack of energy (along with a slow metabolism) is a potential symptom of hypothyroidism.

Both of these are hard to diagnose correctly without medical tests, so one more bit of incentive to talk to your doctor about it.

Halae
2011-03-18, 09:28 AM
What's your stress level like? If you've just moved, unemployment is recent or becoming an important issue, etc. your body could be reacting to the change in stress. You could suffer from either insomnia or needing excessive sleep as a result of stress.

Two other medical reasons you could be needing so much sleep- hypoglycemia or hypothyroidism. Migraines and needing lots of sleep are both symptoms of hypoglycemia, and lack of energy (along with a slow metabolism) is a potential symptom of hypothyroidism.

Both of these are hard to diagnose correctly without medical tests, so one more bit of incentive to talk to your doctor about it.

As far as my stress level goes, it's been fairly stationary my entire life - either I have a high stress level that I've had for such a long time I don't notice it anymore (unlikely), or I'm such a laid back person that stress doesn't come into the equation often enough for me to notice. If it has any relevance, I have Aspergers. Maybe that contributes somehow :smallconfused:

Also, none of my family has any history of those two medical problems, so it's unlikely, but something to get checked out - thank you for mentioning them.

I had no idea that there were so many causes for migraines and sleep problems

Keld Denar
2011-03-18, 10:07 AM
I'm gonna jump on the "lack of exercise" bandwagon. Seriously, try going for a walk. Sedetary life is bad for you. It sounds wierd, but doing nothing is exhausting, and not in a good way. Back when I used to play WoW, I used to be tired a lot just from sitting there and playing all day, and not even doing stuff, just hanging out in town and chatting. When I quit, I started getting more active, and I've found that I'm tired at the proper time (when I want to go to sleep), and awake and alert most of the rest of the time. Its seriously so much better.

Peruse through Deth Muncher's thread for inspiration on things to do to get your active level up. Don't start too crazy, just try going for a 30 minute walk for no reason that to walk around. It'll be good for you!

Also, do you take a multivitamin? You mentioned Vit C suppliments. You might want to look into a multi that has a full range of Bs, along with your essential metals like Zinc and Magnesium. B6 and B12 stimulate natural energy production, while a lot of the other goodies in a multi regulate various body processes that are vital to well being. If you aren't eating healthy (and by healthy, I mean 4+ servings of green veggies and 5+ servings of whole grains per day), a multivitamin is the 2nd best thing you can do for your body, aside from eating right, and probably the easiest and cheapest as well. A 90 day supply of my multi costs me about $25. Thats like, $8 a month. You probably spend more than that at the 7-11 your friend stops at in a week.

Phishfood
2011-03-18, 10:12 AM
Another thing can be diet.

Getting plenty of "fresh"* fruit/veg? I had a week of feeling really tired and when I thought about it - not a single portion of fruit/veg for several days. Soon as I started eating properly again I was ok.

Dehydration can also cause you to feel tired.

<edit>
Ninjad.
Vitamin B complex supplements are a good idea.

* dried, canned, discombobulated and all the other ways that count

Keld Denar
2011-03-18, 10:18 AM
Eh, canned or frozen veggies are better than no veggies at all. Granted, food processing takes a fair bit of the nutritional content out of it, but some is better than none.

Thes Hunter
2011-03-18, 11:47 AM
I am going to advise you to see a doctor.

Likely, it is 'just' a bought of depression brought about by the move, exacerbated by any number of factors. Change in DST, not getting as much light in your room in the morning, Insomnia catching up with you, not eating 5-9 fruits and veges a day, not exercising 30 minutes 3 times a week, any other stress in your life, And believe me, I have been pretty frickin' depressed when I had to go through my own boughts of unemployment, so I would lay odds on that stress being a good amount of the cause.

However, The 'just', is that as horrible, devastating and problematic as depression is, it can be treated, and will sometimes resolve on it's own. But because you have had a sudden change in sleepiness/fatigue/etc, it could also be other more major issues that would be better caught now, rather than later.

So though it might be a bit of a hit to the pocket book, I'd make an appointment with a primary care doc and see if anything is up.

KenderWizard
2011-03-18, 12:33 PM
I'm going to add my voice to those saying to see a doctor. It is a symptom, it's a problem, and that's what doctors are there to fix! You can get good advice from them on diet, exercise and dietary supplements, and get the peace of mind that it isn't anything more than the move that's causing it.

Otherwise, I'd say get out in the fresh air and get your heart rate raised. Don't wait for your friend to go to the 7-11, jog down to a corner shop or something instead. Don't drive to wherever it is you go, try walking there, if it's possible.

Lord Herman
2011-03-18, 12:34 PM
Being a (recently diagnosed) Aspie myself, I'm guessing Asperger's might have something to do with it. It can be a huge source of stress, especially in new situations like the one you're in now. Even if you don't consciously realise your level of stress, it can still have physical and subconscious effects.

That said, it could just as well be something else, or a combination of factors. The exercise idea sounds plausible. In my own experience, exercise for the sake of exercise can be hard to keep up, though. Could be something Asperger's-related, or maybe my ADD (which is quite common among Aspies), but I need to have something interesting to do while I'm on my walk / bike ride / high speed pogo stick chase. In my case, if I have my camera with me, I can walk for miles without getting tired and/or bored.

If you're worried it might be diabetes or something, though, I'd advise seeing a doctor. Especially in the case of diabetes, the earlier it's diagnosed, the more can be done about it.

Asta Kask
2011-03-18, 03:27 PM
Have you been consuming any mysterious pills lying around?
True story: My Boy's friend saw some tablets belonging to his mother, and thought - somehow - that they were vitamins. It said to just take a couple a day, but he was all "Pffft, I wanna be strong and healthy!" and took half a dozen or more a day. All of a sudden, he just couldn't wake up. He was sleepy all the time, and kept having naps.
Turns out these "vitamins" were a sleeping aide (like a mild sleeping tablet of some sort). His mother called him a moron.

How can you be together with this man? He's a disaster waiting to happen.

Reminds me of a story I heard in university - a young man complained to his mother that his asthma medicine made his heart race. So his mother gave him some of her heart medication... and it caused an asthma attack that could not be broken. He died.

Don't eat pills that don't belong to you.

Asheram
2011-03-19, 07:19 AM
Is there good air circulation on your room?
How's the ambient sounds? any repetetive noices?
Do you keep proper and regular hours of sleep and doesn't take naps?
Is your roomie up and running at night?
What direction is your bed facing? (for some strange reason I sleep the best when my head is pointing east or north)
Try to take a walk in the evenings about an hour or two before bed.
Don't eat anything for two hours before going to bed.

Serpentine
2011-03-19, 08:02 AM
How can you be together with this man? He's a disaster waiting to happen....I'm not :confused: Read what I wrote again.

Halae
2011-03-19, 08:27 AM
Alright everybody, It's update time, yay!

*Silence. Circkets in the background*

okay, on a more serious note, I figured out what was wrong. Thank you all for the wonderful an thoughtful suggestions, but it seems the simple answer was the correct one - I've been sedentary way too long. I'm going to start jogging every morning and leaving my window open just a crack at night, as it seems to be helping.

Lord Herman
2011-03-19, 12:01 PM
Yay! Glad you're feeling better. :smallsmile:

Asta Kask
2011-03-19, 12:20 PM
...I'm not :confused: Read what I wrote again.

Sorry. Mistook Boyfriend and Boy's friend.

H Birchgrove
2011-03-20, 07:37 PM
I'm gonna jump on the "lack of exercise" bandwagon. Seriously, try going for a walk. Sedetary life is bad for you. It sounds wierd, but doing nothing is exhausting, and not in a good way. Back when I used to play WoW, I used to be tired a lot just from sitting there and playing all day, and not even doing stuff, just hanging out in town and chatting. When I quit, I started getting more active, and I've found that I'm tired at the proper time (when I want to go to sleep), and awake and alert most of the rest of the time. Its seriously so much better.

Peruse through Deth Muncher's thread for inspiration on things to do to get your active level up. Don't start too crazy, just try going for a 30 minute walk for no reason that to walk around. It'll be good for you!

Also, do you take a multivitamin? You mentioned Vit C suppliments. You might want to look into a multi that has a full range of Bs, along with your essential metals like Zinc and Magnesium. B6 and B12 stimulate natural energy production, while a lot of the other goodies in a multi regulate various body processes that are vital to well being. If you aren't eating healthy (and by healthy, I mean 4+ servings of green veggies and 5+ servings of whole grains per day), a multivitamin is the 2nd best thing you can do for your body, aside from eating right, and probably the easiest and cheapest as well. A 90 day supply of my multi costs me about $25. Thats like, $8 a month. You probably spend more than that at the 7-11 your friend stops at in a week.

Getting too much vitamins can be dangerous though, especially if the vitamins are both synthetic (pills) and fat-soluble (for example vitamin A, D); since both types of vitamins stay longer in the body than either natural vitamins (found in food) or water-soluble vitamins (vitamins like B, C).

I suppose taking those vitamin C pills won't hurt if you don't eat much else that contain vitamin C; though I recommend you to try kiwi fruit- eat one and you get one day's worth of vitamin C, unless you smoke because then you need two kiwi fruits. But don't eat vitamin D pills unless your doctor tells you to or you live in the Arctic. Sunshine and eggs, fish etc should be enough.

Keld Denar
2011-03-21, 02:13 AM
Multis generally contain safe amounts of things you have to worry about ODing on. They have to...or the FDA wouldn't let them on the shelves. Unlike some "herbal" remedies, multivitamins undergo pretty rigorous FDA testing like other drugs do. Like anything else, though, you should take it as directed. Since C is water soluable, you could get away taking a C boost with a multi. My multi has 150 mg of C in it, which is 250% if your daily recommended amount. Contrast that with how much a single dose of something like Airborn has (~1000 mg), and you'd be hard pressed to even reach toxic levels taking a multi together with a C suppliment.

Again, talk to a doctor or licensed nutritionist if you are concerned about anything you take, but most people don't get anywhere NEAR the vitamins they need naturally, much less 20-somethings who don't cook for themselves (of which the OP seems to be) at which point a multi will definitely do more good than harm.

Asta Kask
2011-03-21, 09:28 AM
If you eat a balanced diet, you're just flushing money down the toilet if you take multi-vitamins. Don't, unless you have a deficiency established by a doctor.

Keld Denar
2011-03-21, 11:33 AM
The problem is, most people DON'T eat anything even close to a balanced diet, especially young people who don't cook for themselves. Its hard to get 5 servings of veggies when your meals consist of Burger King and Mt Dew.

Now, the obvious solution there is to eat healthier, but thats often even more expensive than taking a multivitamin.

I do eat pretty healthy, and I still notice a difference in how I feel if I miss a day of my multi. I think its the extra Bs I get from it that contribute to a higher overall energy level, or maybe its something else, but if I don't take it one day, I find myself feeling less good on the day after, even if I resume taking it again.

And its not like they are THAT expensive. I have a pretty high performance multi, and its like $26 for a 3 month supply. That's less than $8 a month. I know people who spend more than that a DAY on coffee. If you took something cheap like the Flintstones vitamins they recommend for kids, you're talking probably as low as $4 a month, and they'll still contain a lot of the essential vitamins and minerals you need that most people don't get enough of.

In a perfect world, multivitamins aren't needed. Sadly, this isn't a perfect world. In most cases, taking a multi is more beneficial than not taking it.

I also notice that both of the people who've objected to taking multivitamins are Europeans. When I lived in Germany, I noticed a huge trend in pushing for organic and healthy foods and away from synthetic things like vitamins. While we here in America are also feeling a larger push toward organic and healthy foods, food suppliments also seem very popular without the stigma of being synthetic. Just something I've noticed...

Thes Hunter
2011-04-11, 01:57 PM
Random note on vitamins.

If you have been paying attention to the health media, it seems that every month they will say something is great for you! and then a bit later another study will come out and say the same thing is horrible for you.


Well, several meta-analysis of the data shows that if you get your vitamins and minerals from their natural sources They're great for you!, but from vitamins (especially at increased doses) they may cause deleterious effects. So getting your vitamins from food is the better course.

However, I have recently started on some low level Vitamin D supplementation, because UVB causes cancer, and UVB also activates vitamin D. Since the only sunlight I tend to get streams through my window, and all UVB is filtered out, I don't get jack, so on with the supplementation even though it's not as good for me. But I am trying to integrate more walking in the morning and evening because small amounts of exposure won't change my cancer chances enough to outweigh the benefits of vitamin D.


*edit*

And oh, yeah, Great to hear you are feeling better Harnel!

(and I had to add that in an edit, cause I suck at the internet and social interactions, forever! :smallredface: )