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Yora
2011-03-19, 12:49 PM
The basic concept behind this class is a universal spellcaster for low-magic E6 campaigns that replaces all other spellcasting classes. In that, it shares some similarities with the Generic Spellcaster variant class, and the Channelers of the Midnight d20 setting.

Since the spell point variant is generally considered not very good, but the psionic rules are, the basic chasis of this class is the Psion with a heavily customized power list and converted to magic, and some similarities to sorcerers. While the Spell Point mechanic and the Spells are converted from the psionic rules, it's still mostly a magic class with verbal and somatic components, spell schools, and spell failure.

= The Mage =

MAges are spellcasters who have a basic control of magical powers. Their spells mostly deal with the elements, strengthening the body, and clouding the minds of people, bust most effect are rather basic in nature and unable to create highly suphisticatred illusions or funadamentally change the rules of nature. Mostly mage spells accomplish things that could be done by most people but faster and more reliably. Manipulating people is so much easier if you have the ability to cloud their minds and make them more receptive to anything you say and a thrust of magical power can be several times more powerful than any human fist.

Hit Die: d4.
Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Heal, Knowledge, Profession, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.
Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier.
Proficiencies: Mages are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a mage’s gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|SP/Day|Spells Known|Max. Spell Level
1|+0|+0|+0|+2|Bonus Feat|2|3|1st
2|+1|+0|+0|+3|-|6|5|1st
3|+1|+1|+1|+3|-|11|7|2nd
4|+2|+1|+1|+4|-|17|9|2nd
5|+2|+1|+1|+4|Bonus Feat|25|11|3rd
6|+3|+2|+2|+5|-|35|13|3rd[/table]

Spell Points/Day: A mage’s ability to cast spells is limited by the spell points he has available as given in the table. In addition, he receives bonus spell points per day if he has a high Wisdom score (exactly the same way psions gain bonus PP for high Intelligence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm)).
Spells Known: A mage begins play knowing three mage spells of your choice. Each time he achieves a new level, he unlocks the knowledge of new spells.
Choose the spells known from the mage spell list, or from any lists of spells of secret disciplines known to your character. You cannot choose spells from secret discipline lists your character has not gained access to. A mage can cast any spell that has a spell point cost equal to or lower than his caster level.
The number of times a mage can cast spells in a day is limited only by his daily spell points.
A mage simply knows his spells; they are ingrained in his mind. He does not need to prepare them, though he must get a good night’s sleep each day to regain all his spent spell points.
The Difficulty Class for saving throws against mage spells is 10 + the spell’s level + the mage’s Intelligence modifier.
Maximum Spell Level Known: A mage begins play with the ability to learn 1st-level spells. As he attains higher levels, a mage may gain the ability to master more complex spells.
To learn or cast a spell, a mage must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the spell’s level.
Bonus Feats: A mage gains a bonus feat at 1st level and 5th level. At each such opportunity, he can choose a metamagic feat or an item creation feat. The mage must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums.

- Feats -
When merging magic with psionics, some adjustments have to be made regarding feats:
All Metamagic feats from core are replaced with Metapsionic feats. Scrolls use the mechanics of Power Stones, Potions use the rules for Psionic Tattoos, and Wands use the rules for Dorjes. Magical Weapons and Wondrous objects are as in core, but with different prerequisite spells as seen appropriate by the GM.
Overchannel, Talented, Body Fuel, Psionic Endowment, Greater Psionic Endowment, Psionic Meditation, Narrow Mind, Psionic Talent, and Wild Talent are also added.

- Spells -
Spells marked with an asterisk can be augmented with 2 SP to increase the range from personal to touch.

1st Level Spells
Catfall*: Instantly save yourself from a fall.
Charm: Makes one person your friend.
Conceal Thoughts: You conceal your motives.
Crystal Shard: Ranged touch attack for 1d6 points of piercing damage.
Daze: Humanoid creature of 4 HD or less loses next action.
Demoralize: Enemies become shaken.
Detect Magic: You detect the presence of magic.
Fire Ray (Energy Ray (fire)): Deal 1d6 fire damage.
Grease: Makes 10-ft. square or one object slippery.
Grip of Iron: Your iron grip gives +4 bonus on grapple checks.
Hammer: Melee touch attack deals 1d8/round.
Matter Agitation: You heat a creature or object.
Missive: Send a one-way telepathic message to subject.
Read Thoughts: Detect surface thoughts of creatures in range.
Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action.
Summon Spirit (Astral Construct): Summons a spirit to fight for you.
Thicken Skin*: Gain +1 enhancement bonus to your AC for 10 min./level.

2nd Level Spells
Animal Affinity*: Gain +4 enhancement to one ability.
Body Equilibrium: You can walk on nonsolid surfaces.
Chameleon: Gain +10 enhancement bonus on Hide checks.
Clairvoyant Sense: See and hear a distant location.
Cloud Mind: You erase knowledge of your presence from target’s mind.
Concealing Amorpha: Quasi-real membrane grants you concealment.
Concussion Blast: Deal 1d6 force damage to target.
Darkvision: See 60 ft. in total darkness.
Detect Hostile Intent: You can detect hostile creatures within 30 ft. of you.
Elfsight: Gain low-light vision, +2 bonus on Search and Spot checks, and notice secret doors.
Energy Adaptation, Specified*: Gain resistance 10 against one energy type.
Fire Push (Energy Push (fire)): Deal 2d6 fire damage and knock subject back.
Identify: Learn the properties of a psionic item.
Knock: Opens locked or magically sealed door.
Levitate: Subject moves up and down at your direction.
Magic Lock: Secure a door, chest, or portal.
Swarm of Crystals: Crystal shards are sprayed forth doing 3d4 slashing damage.

3rd Level Spells
Concealing Amorpha, Greater: Quasi-real membrane grants you total concealment.
Dimension Slide: Teleports you very short distance.
Dispel Magic: Cancels psionic powers and effects.
Fire Cone (Energy Cone (fire)): Deal 5d6 fire damage in 60-ft. cone.
Fire Wall (Energy Wall (fire): Create wall of fire.
Fly: You fly at a speed of 60 ft.
Telekinetic Thrust: Hurl objects with the force of your mind.
Touchsight: Your telekinetic field tells you where everything is.

Blood Magic Discipline
1st Level
Disable: Subjects incorrectly believe they are disabled.
Dissipating Touch: Touch deals 1d6 damage.
Vigor: Gain 5 temporary hit points.
2nd Level
Biofeedback: Gain damage reduction 2/-.
Empathic Transfer: Transfer another’s wounds to yourself.
Inflict Pain: Telepathic stab gives your foe -4 on attack rolls, or -2 if he makes the save.
Recall Agony: Foe takes 2d6 damage.
3rd Level
Control Body: Take rudimentary control of your foe’s limbs.
Crisis of Breath: Disrupt subject’s breathing.
Empathic Transfer, Hostile: Your touch transfers your hurt to another.

New Spells
(yet to be written)

Alter Self/Disguise Self
Animate Dead
Beast Shape: Wolf/(Dog)
Beast Shape: Hawk/(Raven/Owl)
Beast Shape: Black Bear
Beast Shape: Giant Spider
Beast Shape: Leopard
Beast Shape: Constrictor Snake
Beast Shape: Porpoise/(Seal)
Beast Shape: Wheasel/(Rat)
Cure Wounds
Darkness
Entangle
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Scare
Summon Swarm
Water Breathing

Yora
2011-03-19, 01:33 PM
New Mage Spells

Animate Corpses
Necromancy
Level: ??? 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One or more corpses
Duration: 1 min/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Spell Points: 3

When casting this spell, you can turn corpses within the spells range into skeletons and zombies with up to 2 HD per spell point. You can never control more than 2 HD of undead per caster level and animateing more undead ends the spell for all undead above the limit.
You can even cast this spell in a graveyard animating burried corpses. It usually takes 5 rounds for a corpse to dig itself out of a grave 6 feet deep, but it may take as much as twice as long if the ground is frozen or only a single round if they are just covered with lose soil.
When the spell ends, you can cast it again on the same corpses, but the undead will have the same amount of hit points they had when the last spell ended. Undead that have been destroyed can not be animated again.
Material Component: Corpses to be animated.
Augmentation: For every additional spell point you spend on this spell, you can animate 2 HD of aditional undead.

Cure Wounds
Necromancy
Level: Mage 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Effect: One creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will halves; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
Spell Points: 1

This spell heals 1d4+1 points of damage. Undead are harmed by this spell.
Augmentation: For every 2 additional spell points spend on this spell, you heal 1d4+1 more points of damage. (2d4+2 at 3 sp, 3d4+3 at 5 sp)
In addition, for every 2 additional power points you spend, this power’s save DC increases by 1.

Hold
Enchantment (compulsion)
Level: Mage 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
Spell Points: 3

The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)
A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown.
Augment: If you spend 2 additional power points, this power can also affect an animal, fey, giant, magical beast, or monstrous humanoid.
In addition, for every 2 additional power points you spend, this power’s save DC increases by 1.

Summon Spirit
This spell is a variant of the Astral Construct power.

Conjuration (summoning)
Level: Mage 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned spirit
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Spell Points: 1

You summon a spirit and give it physical form, usually in the shape resembling an animal. Every spirit has it's own abilities but you can always chose to summon a specific kind of spirit that has the abilities you want.
This spell summons one 1st-level spirit that attacks your enemies. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. As a free action, you can mentally direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. The spirit acts normally on the last round of the spell’s duration and dissipates at the end of its turn.
Augment: For every 2 additional spell points you spend, the level of the spirit increases by one.

Summoned Spirits follow the same rules as astral constructs, except for the following:
Outsider Type: Spirits are summoned outsiders and as such are affected by magical effects that bar out or dismiss such creatures. They possess none of the special traits of constructs. They gain a +2 increase to Fortitude saves.
Summoned spirits have a constitution score of 12 and an Intelligence score of 3. (With d8 HD, hp remain the same)
To make up for the loss of construct traits, summoned spirits can take two abilities from the Menu A list.

Mayhem
2011-03-20, 04:14 AM
Top notch as usual Yora ^___^

I've been tossing around the same thing, inspired by your campaign thread actually. It's basically the same, but different casting stats and it has domains like a cleric so players can flavour their mage without having to worry so much about their precious spells known. If you feel like a comparison it's here (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Classes_(Blashyyrk)#Table:_Mage). I think I might follow your lead and ditch the humble cleric. Oh, and I threw in some extra skill points, just because it'll be fun to see if they get used.

What I did with domains was divide magic into spheres like your disciplines, and gave each sphere associated domains to choose from. Well, the starter spheres don't have any domain choice. Something to think about, anyway.

Oh, your spells. You've also toying with using the psionic rules. That's given me something to think about, I'll get back to you on that.

Yora
2011-03-20, 06:46 AM
The problem, or rather a drawback, with a psionic base is that you lose all spells and have to write a lot of new ones for which no fitting power exists.
Crystal shard spells can be refluffed as ice shards, astral construct is easily converted to summon monster, and thicken skin is really the same as barkskin.
But as you can see, I currently have only 8 spells on the 3rd level spell list. In many cases converting spells to powers is not that hard, but it's still some extra work. If I wouldn't make it as a 6 level class with the goal of having a small spell list, I probably wouldn't have taken that route.
The main reason for chosing the psion as the base is 3rd level powers at 5th level, which is a great boost compared to 3rd level spells at 6th level for spontaneous spellcasters. The use of spell points instead of slots is just icing on the cake.

I also considered implementing domains, spheres, disciplines or something of that kind, but this calls for additional exclusive spells which have to be useful, but not so useful that you want all of them. And I'd rather keep the list short. The exception are the Blood Mage and Warlock specialization, part of the blood mage list is already in the first post.
Though I would like to make a bigger difference between Wu Jen style mages and Cloistered Cleric style mages, other than just the traditional spells they select.

Mayhem
2011-03-20, 07:08 PM
Yeah changing the spell list is a road block I hit too, definately agree on spells being useful but not essential. It's like if I ditch the cleric, only shadow mages specialising in healing can heal but there's so many other really interesting domains the shadow mage can choose instead. I have a lot of work and I wonder If I'm better off saying; okay wizard spell list except for X spells.
Problem in dnd is that there aren't many generic spells. There's acid orb but not fire orb, ray of frost but not ray of electricity.

Specialising in a style of magic that grants bonus spell choice pool like what you're implying would be an idea. Well, you're already doing that with bloodmage.

For spontaneous casters, I just adjusted the spells known table closer to the wizard.

Hah, reading the psionic diciplines it seems to be what I wanted to get out of domains. Still, I don't know where to draw the line between 'good spells I want but don't need' and 'spells I need but can't have.'

Yora
2011-03-21, 06:18 PM
So, I've expanded on my concept of the blood mage specialization, here's the curent result:


Blood Magic [General]
You know how to tap into the magical energies within your own blood and use it to power your spells.
Prerequisites: Caster Level 1st, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks.
Benefit: You can choose to invoke a wild surge whenever you cast a spell. When doing so, you gain +1 to your caster level for the casting of the spell. The caster level boost gives you the ability to augment your spells to a higher degree than you otherwise could; however, you pay no extra spell point for this blood surge. Instead, the additional 1 spell point that would normally be required to augment the spell is effectively supplied by your blood, dealing 1 point of Constitution burn. At caster level 3rd you can burn 2 Constitution points on a spell to gain 2 additional spell points, and at caster level 5th you can burn 3 Constitution points for 3 spell points. You can reduce your Constitution score to 0 that way, but you die only at the end of the standard action to cast the spell.
Also, you can learn spells from the Blood Mage spell list.

It's essentially the wilders Wild Surge ability, but instead of potentially being stunned, a blood mage takes Constitution burn every time. With Point Buy 25 in E6, you really can't afford to spam it and maybe get a bonus of 6 or 8 points out of it, and you only recover 1 or 2 points per day, so it shouldn't make a character more powerful than characters who don't have the feat. The blood mage spell list is the real benefit here, but I think a feat should have some other benefits than just unlocking options for other class features or later feats.
Once or twice per day, a blood mage can give everything he has, but when used thrice in a critical fight, he will later be out for a couple of days until he completely recovers.

However, I'm not yet completely happy with it. The idea of blood magic is that normal magic is a highly spiritual and mental process that is removed from physical forms, but blood magic is a violent and extremely physical type of magic that is much more primal. I'd like to have that reflected in all the magic of a blood mage. As it is, the blood magic only becomes evident when you cast a blood spell or use a blood surge. Regular fireballs, charm persons, and summon monster spells work just the same as always. The way it is, blood magic is just better than normal magic, as a blood mage can do everything a normal mage can do just as well, but also has options to cast spells with more power and a larger spell list. I'd prefer to have an even balance of additional benefits and drawbacks that make blood mages different, but not more powerful. If anyone has ideas, please share.

Mayhem
2011-03-21, 07:18 PM
I like it so far.
Maybe a wild surge is like barbarian's rage? As in, you can't use spells that use concentration checks(Silent image), require cognitive thought(such as using levitate on your friend or ghost sound), cannot be used to cast a spell with a casting time greater than 1 standard action. Also, you'd have to wait for a number of rounds equal to maybe 3+(number of spell points gained) before this magic restriction is lifted.
I think conjuration, evocation, and necromancy spells fit in flavour but healing spells count as conjuration so I don't know.

Yora
2011-03-21, 08:55 PM
I treat all healing spells as necromancy, making necromancy the school of manipulating life force. This makes most blood magic necromancy, whith some additional enchantments, as you can also mess with a persons brain. But I don't see any conjuration effects that would fit the same. Transmutation maybe.

The concept is, that blood magic is not an evil and destructive, or even dark art. Common magic has its origin with the spirits who are normally incorporeal or don't have a biological body like mortal creatures. It draws some free floating magical essence from the surrounding environment and shapes it into a spell, and eventually this way of casting spells was discovered by mortal mages as well.
But as physical creatures, humanoid have a lot of life-force within their own bodies, which is just another state of magical energy or soul-essence. The common spirit magic became very popular once humanoid mages learned it, as the spirits where way more advanced when it comes to magic, and the traditional form of using ones own blood to power your spells became gradually forgotten. However, blood magic never completely disappeared and still lives on in some remote corners of the world.
To modern humanoids, which are accustomed to the sight of meditating priests in bright robes who create their spells with the force of their will and arcane chantings, blood magic seems to be incredibly violent and gruesome. When drawing on the power of the blood, a blood mages body is wracked with pain and blood spills from his mouth and gashes along his arms, while it literarily explodes from the skins of their enemies. There's a lot of pain and screaming involved, which understandibly scares most poeple and gives blood mages a very bad reputaton. Even when people know that it's not evil magic, most regard it as unneccesary cruel and uncivilized and want nothing to do with it. In fact, almost all blood mages rely mostly on common spirit magic when it serves them just as well. But some extrem situations call for extrem measures, so they still learn the basics of blood magic to have an extra card up the sleves.

Mayhem
2011-03-21, 09:34 PM
Ah, I get it now. Blood magic is powered from the mage's life force, and Common magic is powered by spirits? That makes sense, I like that concept.
So it's sort of like the difference between psions and clerics?

Edit: Maybe a difference between the two can be applied to metamagic feat?
Ok, so common metamagic takes longer to cast like sorcerer spells, while bloodmagic during a while surge can apply metamagic feats without increasing the casting time? This would represent how common metamagic takes longer to draw extra power from the spirits, while blood metamagic can draw this extra energy straight from the body.

Cieyrin
2011-03-21, 11:20 PM
Is Blood Magic supposed to replace Overchannel and its tree? It would seem that way, given you butchered their mechanic. Otherwise, I could see a Mage with Blood Magic, Overchannel and Talented who often casts at +1 CL by Overchanneling and occasionally Blood Magicing it up to +4 CL.

Also, costing in terms of Ability Burn opens up Strongheart Vest shenanigans. Blood Magic, Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest), Bonus Essentia and Expanded Soulmeld Capacity means all your spells are CL at least CL 9 (10 when overchannelling) with no cost, as you power your blood magic with the souls of the dead and yet to be born. :smallannoyed: Disregarding Incarnum, you can still recover rather rapidly with Faster Healing and Mind Over Body, so that it becomes little more than a part of your work every day.

I'm also curious about how you fluff up Psionic Focus and Psicrystals, as I'm sorta seeing Psicrystal Containment being popular. I'd imagine them as a guardian spirit or an ancestral guide or some such, which is neat in and of itself.

Oh, and before I forget, I do wonder about the need to lock the energy powers to fire if we want true elemental casters, though I suppose that could be a feat.

Yora
2011-03-22, 07:26 AM
In psionics, metapsionic manifesting does not take extra time, but you lose your psionic focus, which you have to recharge by a full round action and a Concentration check (or move action with the right feat). Burning Constitution instead of losing your now magic focus came to my mind, but I feel like that would be a pretty strong power boost compared to normal mages. (Like how the Maho-Tsukai gains sudden metamagic for Constitution damage.)
With the Blood Surge you can exceed your normal spell point limit and apply metamagic feats to spells that would normaly cost more points than you can pay. That's still more versatilitsy than normal, but does not seem like such a big boost to me.

Yes, it pretty much replaces Overchannel/Talented/Body Fuel. Body Fuel is firmly within the domain of blood magic, so no questions here. Talented is a bit of a problem, as it removes the overchannel damage from 1st to 3rd level powers, which in E6 is all powers. That seems a bit cheap to me (magic focus or nor), so I don't want to include it here.
Which leaves overchannel. I think I'd like all mages to be able to push themselves beyond what is wise and healthy, but 1d8 point of damage does not seem the appropriate tradeoff to me. Although it would be uite interesting in PB 25 E6, as mages with a total hit points of 16 and lower are quite likely. :smallbiggrin: But then, I think this could be considered as too dangerous by many. Up to 8 damage for just 1 spell point beyond your normal maximum? That's a very hefty price for a low-level mage. Also physical damage would murk the difference between blood and spirit magic which I'm trying to create. If you have an idea how to overchannel with a different drawback, I'm open to all suggestions. There are a lot of really nice effects that cost 7 sp. :smallamused:


Ability Burn: This is a special form of ability damage that cannot be magically or psionically healed. It is caused by the use of certain psionic feats and powers. It returns only through natural healing.
From what I know, ability burn comes up exclusively with the Body Fuel feat and nowhere else. And as I read it, the idea is that you can not use any items or other special abilities to prevent or cure it. Other DMs might allow for healing or damage reduction shenanigans, but to me this means No (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2972/yotsubanono.jpg). There's no weaseling out of this. You pay the Constitution points and you have to wait for them to return on their own at the rate of 1 per day. Everything else is cheating.

Regarding Elements: I'm not too fond of the D&D "elemental" magic. Fire is an element, but lightning and acid are not. I like the route taken in Avatar, that the elements do different things, not just all the same in a different color.
So fire is the element of energy, dealing damage to things. And I'm absolutely shamelessly copy Avatar here with this:


Lightning Spell [Metamagic]
You know how to manifest the energy of fire in it's purer form of lightning.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your magic focus. You can alter a fire spell with a duration of instantaneous to deal electricity damage instead. In addition, casting a lightning spell provides a +2 bonus to the save DC and a +2 bonus on caster level checks for the purpose of overcoming spell resistance.
Using this feat does not increase the spell point cost of this spell.
This basically switches the spells from energy (fire) to energy (electricity) without removing the +1 per damage die that chosing fire adds to an energy spells base damage. Or in other words, the feat allows you to cast spells with electricity energy and boosts damage from 1d6/level to (1d6+1)/level. Actually quite weak even for no additional spell points and only expending your magic focus. The biggest benefit is that you ignore fire resistance.

Mayhem
2011-03-22, 09:36 AM
Overchannel: You could up the ante and make it 2d4+1 or something.

With Vitality and Wound points, constitution burn becomes a much more serious trade-off. Not a bad thing, just saying that's what I plan to use in my setting so using your bloodsurge would certainly make things interesting. Throwing vitalising spell points into the equation things get fun.
I was actually going to use a mechanic that lets you keep casting without enough spell points at the risk of a magickal backfire. I think ability burn and blood surge will do nicely. Psionics huh, always one step ahead of magic :smallbiggrin:.

Energy substitution from complete arcane has a prerequisite of knowlege(arcana) 5 ranks, which you might want to add to your feat. But I suppose mages would meet that anyway.

I also believe d&d elements make no sense. From my understanding of elemental theory, Ice=earth, acid(liquid)=water, and acid(gas)=air.
Anyway, have you seen the Shujenga from I believe complete mage? An elemental focused caster.

Have you seen the reserve feats from complete mage? If not, they give you at-will spell like abilities if you're able to cast x type of spell at minimum level y. Thought you might be interested, seem pretty cool for use in an E6 game. They could be used by spending your spell focus.

Cieyrin
2011-03-22, 10:16 AM
I also believe d&d elements make no sense. From my understanding of elemental theory, Ice=earth, acid(liquid)=water, and acid(gas)=air.

It's more Fire=Fire, Air=Lightning, Earth=Acid, Water=Cold, with Sonic sitting out on it's lonesome not knowing what to do with itself or how it fits in.


Anyway, have you seen the shujenga from I believe complete mage? An elemental focused caster.

Complete Divine, actually.

Mayhem
2011-03-22, 10:31 AM
Complete Divine, actually.
Oops, yeah. Wu gen in complete arcane are also elemental though.


It's more Fire=Fire, Air=Lightning, Earth=Acid, Water=Cold, with Sonic sitting out on it's lonesome not knowing what to do with itself or how it fits in.
I meant greek theory. Earth is dry so liquid acid is unlikely, it is also cold so it can be ice. Water is wet and cold, it doesn't fit ice but can be cold, dunno about acid though. Sonic could be argued to be dry and hot, so it could be fire.

Alright, back on topic.

Summon Spirit: I really like this spell.

I have a question about psionic talent feat. Are you allowing the bonus spell points gained to increase each time it's taken as written, or are you capping it at 2 points per feat? If that makes sense.

Cieyrin
2011-03-22, 10:45 AM
I meant greek theory. Earth is dry so liquid acid is unlikely, it is also cold so it can be ice. Water is wet and cold, it doesn't fit ice but can be cold, dunno about acid though. Sonic could be argued to be dry and hot, so it could be fire.

I was meaning in the sense of D&D elemental structure, not Greek.

Mayhem
2011-03-22, 11:26 AM
All good :smallwink:.

New spells:
Disguise self
Level: 1
Display: Visual; see text
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level
Power Points: 1
This allows you to duplicate the effects of the disguise self spell.
For an additional 2 power points, you can duplicate the effects of an alter self spell.

Beast shape, wolf
Level: 2
Display: Visual; see text
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level
Power Points: 3
You take on the shape of a wolf or dog. You gain a +20 feet bonus to your movespeed, +2natural armour bonus, and +2 strength. A medium character gains a 1d6 bite attack, and a small character gains a 1d4 bite attack.
You cannot cast spells while in this form.
You may end this effect at any time of your choosing.

Yora
2011-03-22, 12:30 PM
I have a question about psionic talent feat. Are you allowing the bonus spell points gained to increase each time it's taken as written, or are you capping it at 2 points per feat? If that makes sense.
With lots of feats and more versatile spells, it's easy to take that feat many times and really get a huge pool of spell points. But actually, I don't think that's a balance problem as the number of points you can spend on a single spell still remains capped by your caster level.
Especially in E6, enemy casters don't live long and will be dead before they run out of spell points. PC mages only can go longer and with a simple healing spell they can heal non-casting characters who also can go longer before reaching their limit. More spell points only increases the length of the adventuring day for the party, but does not make much of a difference during a single encounter (which in E6 won't be that long anyway).
So I don't think it's a problem if the number of extra spell points grows constantly bigger. No problem with keeping it that way.

Disguise Self and Alter Self actually work very differently. One is an illusion that merely, well disguises your apperance. But Alter Self actually makes your body transform into a different type of creature. Though being the lowest of the polymorph spells, it has many problems, most noticeably the easy access to unlimited flight and water breathing.
But spells without augmentation are boring, I agree on that.

Here's another version by me:


Disguise Self
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Mage 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Spell Points: 1

You make yourself—including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment—look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type. Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person.
The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment.
If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check.
A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.
Augment: You can augment this power in one or more of the following ways.
1. If you spend 2 additional power points, you can assume a form one size category larger or smaller than you.
2. If you spend 2 additional spell points, sound, smell, and thermal illusions are included in the spell effect. Creatures can only attempt a saving throw if they touch you.
3. If you spend 2 additional spell points, you can cast it on another creature within close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels).
In addition, for every 2 additional spell points you spend to achieve any of these effects, this power’s save DC increases by 1.

Yora
2011-03-22, 01:19 PM
Polymorphing has always been a bitch. Though there's a high chance that this ends up broken as hell, here's an attempt at shape change spells:


Beast Shape: Wolf
Transmutation
Level: Mage 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Spell Points: 1

This spell transforms you into a wolf. You gain all the stats of an average wolf, but you retain your own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores and your own Will save bonus. You use the skill modifiers of an average wolf, except for skills based on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, but you can not perform any actions that require the use of your hands or mouth. You can also use no feats involving physical activity, and you can not speak or cast any spells with verbal or somatic components. To determine if a spell affects you, use your own number of Hit Dice. For all other aspects, you use the HD of the assumed form.
All your equipment becomes part of your new form and magical items are inactive for the duration of the spell.
When the spell ends, your own body has lost as many hit points as the animal form had lost, but as long as the animal form had at least one hit point remaining when the spell ends, the new current hit points of your own form are at least 1 per Hit Die.
Augment:
You can augment this power in one or more of the following ways.
1. For 2 additional spell points, the duration of the spell becomes 10 min./level.
2. For 4 additional spell points, the duration becomes 1 hour/level.
3. For 2 additional spell points, your animal form gains +2 HD.

Beast Shape: Bear
Transmutation
Level: Mage 2
Spell Points: 3
Like beast shape: wolf, but you assume the form of a bear, gaining the stats of a black bear.

Beast Shape: Bird
Transmutation
Level: Mage 1
Spell Points: 1
Like beast shape: wolf, but you assume the form of an eagle, hawk, raven, or owl, gaining the appropriate stats.

Beast Shape: Cat
Transmutation
Level: Mage 2
Spell Points: 3
Like beast shape: wolf, but you assume the form of a great cat, gaining the stats of a leopard.

Beast Shape: Dolphin
Transmutation
Level: Mage 1
Spell Points: 1
Like beast shape: wolf, but you assume the form of an dolphin, gaining the stats of a porpoise.

Beast Shape: Rat
Transmutation
Level: Mage 1
Spell Points: 1
Like beast shape: wolf, but you assume the form of a rat or weasel, gaining the appropriate stats.

Beast Shape: Spider
Transmutation
Level: Mage 1
Spell Points: 1
Like beast shape: wolf, but you assume the form of an spider, gaining the stats of a monstrous spider of your own size category.

Beast Shape: Snake
Transmutation
Level: Mage 1
Spell Points: 1
Like beast shape: wolf, but you assume the form of an snake, gaining the stats of a viper of your own size category.
The guideline I used here is creature CR = Spell level. The spells are mostly utility spells, as you lose your spellcasting and equipment and in most cases get very squishy. Wolf, cat, and bear can be used in combat, but then you are still a lot weaker than a warrior character in your group.
Unless I missed something, the effect should be the same as if you took perfect mental control of an animal while doing nothing else.

Mayhem
2011-03-22, 02:24 PM
Beastshape: Those are much better :smallbiggrin:, I was struggling with the wolf. I was using the PHB2 shapeshifter druid as a base, because I didn't like the casting getting different stats.
• Something you might look to change for your setting though: ability burn damage remains with you when you change forms.
• Setting it so you keep your own hit points would be a good idea since it's only a 1st level spell. Mind you, you don't have druids in your game.
• The rat. Getting to be tiny wasn't this so easy before.
• The bird. Flight at first level seems to be a big no-no.
The flight is the biggest concern here(I think).


Beast Shape: Badger
Transmutation
Level: Mage 1
Spell Points: 1
Like Beast Shape: Wolf, but you assume the form of a badger, gaining the stats of a badger.


Disguise self: Perfect.
I was treading water on that one, especially with regards to alter self.
I think alter self should be read:
The maximum HD ECL of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HDECL.
I'll tentatively put it at Level 3.

Yora
2011-03-22, 02:44 PM
Tiny and flight doesn't seem much of a balance breaker to me if you only have 2 hit point. But it does allow you to enter places that would normally be inaccesible. Except that you can't take the party with you.
But maybe make those 2nd level spells as well.

I like using the animals standard stats because it's the least ammount of work. The pathfinder beast shape spells are not bad, but they make you keep almost everything of your original form and mostly give small ability boni and a cosmetich change of your form. Polymorph is broken because it's so open ended. But animals are generally weak for their HD, so I think we're quite safe here.
I also chose to limit each spell to a single form. If you want to use other forms, you have to learn another spell, so you actually have "your forms" instead of the ability to change into anything you need right now.
But the hit point solution doesn't completely satisfy me right now. I'd like to have something simpler. But if you go with current hit points, you end up severly hurt when changing back from being a perfectly well eagle, but you're suddenly all fine after changing back from being a terribly beat up bear. Keeping your own hp woulf work, but then charging into battle as a bear becomes quite dangerous. :smallannoyed:

Mayhem
2011-03-22, 03:04 PM
Tiny and flight aren't bad in combat, it's the utility uses that are a problem. There's all kinds of stuff you can get up to that make it worthwhile for rogues to level dip and get.

Using animal stats are good yeah, you've shown me the light :smallwink:.

How about when you change back you have the same HP you had before shapeshifting? That way you could escape in terribly bad shape with beastshape if you had to.
Maybe each beastshape spell has its own HP and only heals once you gain 8 hours of rest, to limit potential player abuse. In this way it'd be different from other spells, being more of a spell-like ability, but it's an interesting twist to otherwise mundane magic.
"Example: Craig is a 1st level mage with 6 HP. During the course of a battle, craig recieved 5 points of damage so used beastshape:wolf and continues with the battle. His wolf form sustains 10 points of damage so he shifts back to his original form with 1HP. For the rest of the day, any time craig uses the Beast Shape:wolf spell he has 5H unless he recieves healing in this form. Later on in the day, Craig asks Mia to cast cure wounds on him in wolf form. He gets healed 4HP, bringing his wolf form's HP up to 9. This healing only applies to the wolf form, so craig will still have 1 HP when reverting back to human."

Cieyrin
2011-03-22, 03:53 PM
Tiny and flight aren't bad in combat, it's the utility uses that are a problem. There's all kinds of stuff you can get up to that make it worthwhile for rogues to level dip and get.

I don't think it's that big of a deal, considering there are flight spells at 2nd level (Swift Fly, Master Air) and you're limited to what a bird can do while in it, since there's no raining your fury down on infidels since you can't spell cast. Yeah, you can get where you otherwise couldn't but you most likely have to dismiss it to do anything useful when you get there adn have to recast it again. Dipping a level of Mage will get you 4 SP tops, with a high Wis stat, so it's not like you can go in and out of bird shape all day if you flit between the two on a regular basis.

Even then, it's only 1 minute per level and your CL of 1 means you can only be in the shape for short periods of time. It's a neat trick for your repertoire but not game breaking in my opinion.

Mayhem
2011-03-22, 05:59 PM
Does change the nature of the campaign though.
I didn't realise there is a max of 13 spells. In that case its probably justified. I think in this case I'm also arguing from the view of distinct character classes that Ancient Lands lacks. Still wrapping my head around that one, here you could make a stealthy rogue or you could make a fighter who can turn into a rat. Quite a different dynamic :smallbiggrin:
Something to note in case of future change anyway.

Yora
2011-03-22, 06:07 PM
With E6 in place, you can use feats that give you extra spells known. Core-Psionic has a feat that allows you to lean powers up to one level lower than your highest level, and the E6 pdf includes feats that give spontaneous casters additional spells known of any level they can cast.
If you want to, you can expand your powers known list substentially, though I think increasing your point pool and learning metamagic feats may quite probably be a better idea.

Cieyrin
2011-03-22, 07:23 PM
With E6 in place, you can use feats that give you extra spells known. Core-Psionic has a feat that allows you to lean powers up to one level lower than your highest level, and the E6 pdf includes feats that give spontaneous casters additional spells known of any level they can cast.
If you want to, you can expand your powers known list substentially, though I think increasing your point pool and learning metamagic feats may quite probably be a better idea.

Both are rather important, for making characters more powerful and versatile. It's just a matter of deciding what to pursue first.