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Craftworld
2011-03-20, 12:53 AM
HD BA Fort Ref Will Special
1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Phases 1,2,3,4,5 completed, Scout
Marine
2 +2 +3 +3 +1 Phases 6,7,8,9 completed
3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Phases 10,11,12 completed
4 +4 +4 +4 +2 Phases 16,17,18,19 completed, Battle
Brother (Assault, Tactical, or Devastor)
5 +5 +4 +4 +2 And They Shall Know No Fear
6 +6/+1 +4 +4 +2 Tactical Attack, Assault Ascension,
Devastator Cover
7 +7/+2 +5 +5 +2
8 +8/+3 +5 +5 +3 Tactical Defense, Assault Cry,
Devastator Devotion
9 +9/+4 +6 +6 +3
10 +10/+5 +6 +6 +3 A hopeless situation...and come out on
on top!
11 +11/+6/ +7 +7 +3
+1
12 +12/+7/ +7 +7 +3 Inspire Guardsmen
+2
13 +13/+8/ +8 +8 +4 Tactical Triumph, Assault Charge,
+3 Devastator Defense
14 +14/+9/ +8 +8 +4
+4
15 +15/+10/ +9 +9 +4 First Company Veteran
+5
16 +16/+11/ +9 +9 +4 Sternguard Veteran/Vanguard Veteran
+6/+1
17 +17/+12/ +10 +10 +5 Know No Fear!
+7/+2
18 +18/+13/ +10 +10 +5 Company Rally!, Inspire Man
+8/+3
19 +19/+14/ +11 +11 +6 Company Charge!
+9/+4
20 +20/+15/ +12 +12 +6 FOR THE EMPEROR!
+10/+5Edit: This class sheet will probably be confusing to read because apparently this site doesn't like to have more then one space between words!:smallfurious:
Phase 1-Secondary Heart-The Marine has a secondary heart that helps him
with running andother strenuous activities. The player has the Run feat.
Phase 2-Ossmodula-The organ increases the bone structure of the Marine
and protects the Marine from devastating hits. The player has a 35%
chance to negate a critical hit.
Phase 3-Biscopea-The Biscopea improves the Marine's muscular
structure, allowing them improved strength, dexterity, and toughness. The
player gets a +2 to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.
Phase 4-Haemastamen-The Marine's blood carries blood more oxygen with
the increase in hemoglobin in the blood. The player gets +4 on swim, climb,
ride, and tumble.
Phase 5-Larraman's Organ-The Marine's blood clots instantly as he recieves
wounds. Wounds that would normally kill him are shrugged off as the
wound closes within seconds. The player's threshold is now increased
to between -1 and -15 and instantly stabilizes if reduced to between 0 and
-14.
Phase 6-Catalepsean Node-The Marine can now go without sleep for extended
periods of time as different parts of his brain are turned on and off to
replicate sleep in the brain. The player can go with only 4 hours of sleep
per day and can go up to 2 weeks without sleep.
Phase 7-Preomnor-The Marine's new organ can neutralized eaten poisons
before he begins to digest his food. The player is now immune to most
eaten poisons unless it is specifically written in its description.
Phase 8-Omophagea-The Marine can now gain the "memories" of an ingested
humanoid because his new organ decodes the genetic code and sends
messages to his brain as new "memories". The player can now acquire
information simply from eating fallen enemies.
Phase 9-Multi-lung-The Marine's new lungs can breathe in environments
where a normal man could not survive. The player can now breathe water,
poisonous air and can go longer without breathing.
Phase 10-Occulobe-The new additions to the Marine's optical system he can
see with improved ability. The player gets a +5 to spot checks and now
low-light vision and darkvision 30 ft.
Phase 11-Lyman's Ear-The new addition to the Marine's hearing allows him to
listen to sounds more effectively and can listen to specific sounds to the
exclusion of others. The player now has a +5 to listen checks and can
hone in on specific sounds with a DC 15+1 listen check for every 10 feet
between the player and the sound.
Phase 12-Sus-an Membrane-When the Marine is wounded severly he can
enter a suspended animation. The player can at any time that he/she
takes reduced to -15 he can enter a state of susended animation to
remain alive.
Phase 13-Melanochrome-The Marine can change the pigment in his skin and
now has resistance to radiation. The player has Resistance to Radiation/10
Phase 14-Oolitic Kidney-This organ allows the Marine to purge his blood of
toxins by running his blood at high speeds through his blood but he must be
unconscious. The player can if he gets poisoned go unconscious and
purge himself of poisons and be fine.
Phase 15-Neuroglottis-The Marine's sense of taste is now heightened to the
degree that he can identify chemicals simply by eating them. The player
can now identify things by eating them and can track his prey simply by
taste.
Phase 16-Murcranoid-This organ allow a player to excrete a substance from
his skin that offers him protection from a vacuum but can only be
activated by an Apothecary with special tools.
Phase 17-Betcher's Gland-This gland creates a poison/acid that the Marine
can use to blind opponents, by spitting at their eyes and eat through metal
if the acid is given enough time.
Phase 18-Progenoids-This gland allows for the marine's chapter to survive
as it is what creates the gene seed for the chapter. The first organ in the
neck takes 5 years to mature and the second organ in the chest cavity
takes 10 years to mature.
Phase 19-Black Carapace-This final add on to the Marine is a black plastic
film that allows the Marine to interface directly with their armor. The
player can now wear Power Armor.I am still looking at what I should do for the other ablilities...any ideas/suggestions?

Tacitus
2011-03-20, 01:50 AM
NAME OF CLASS
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Phases Completed (1,2,3,4,5), Scout Marine

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Phases Completed (6,7,8,9)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Phases Completed (10,11,12)

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Phases Completed (16,17,18,19), Battle Brother I

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|And They Shall Know No Fear

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+2|Battle Brother II

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+2|

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+2|Battle Brother III

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+3|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+3|A hopeless situation...and come out on top!

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+3|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+4|Inspire Guardsmen

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+4|Battle Brother IV

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+4|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+5|First Company Veteran

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+5|Sternguard Veteran/Vanguard Veteran

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+5|Know No Fear!

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+6|Company Rally!, Inspire Men

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+6|Company Charge!

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+6|FOR THE EMPEROR![/table]

I made you a shiny table (quote my post for the code). Also, as seen in the table, I'd suggest rolling those abilities into the heading of Battle Brother so it looks cleaner and then at each interval have the ability and then split it out like Ranger has for fighting styles.

I haven't actually looked at the class yet, though. Filling out a table is time consuming. XD

Edit1: Whoa,whoa,whoa. +2 to all physical stats, Run, Skill Bonuses, and the blood thing. All at first level that doesn't inspire the most confidence in balance right off that bat. I can think of half a dozen characters I've thought about making today along that would dip this for a +2 untyped bonus to physical stats and no loss of BAB. Yeah, space marines, but that should not be at first level, not even on a Monster Class.

I'd go on, but I'm going to let someone with more experience take a crack at this.

Dead_Jester
2011-03-20, 06:11 AM
Edit1: Whoa,whoa,whoa. +2 to all physical stats, Run, Skill Bonuses, and the blood thing. All at first level that doesn't inspire the most confidence in balance right off that bat. I can think of half a dozen characters I've thought about making today along that would dip this for a +2 untyped bonus to physical stats and no loss of BAB. Yeah, space marines, but that should not be at first level, not even on a Monster Class.

First of all, they gain +2 to all physical stats, which isn't massive, and a bunch of mediocre abilities that don't really benefit him. For this, he sacrifices 3 levels. Heck, I'd even say they should gain some actual combat abilities during this phase, maybe a lite version of a later path that's won't actually force them into said path.

Furthermore, you probably won't be able to multiclass in this game, as one can't just choose to suddenly become a space marine, and the 40k universe never really supported multiclassing between archetypes.

As for the other abilities, you seem to have went with the singular class for all archetypes, so you could make the archetypes as something akin to ranger combat styles (only much stronger, more versatile, and preferably not as feats). You might also want to decide if the actual power of the class will come from the gear they have (like TT space marines) or from them being so badass the universe is ashamed (most works of fiction sm's).

Icedaemon
2011-03-20, 08:34 AM
Space marines should not get HD on every level. That'd offer a slight semblance of balance, at least. Given how even near-elite space marines are not particularly superb snipers, the HD progression drop would go a long way towards suggesting balance. Besides, they don't need to be damage sponges with their power armour on - armour bonus stacks with natural armour and several others, so one would suppose space marines to have about 30 AC or so.

Dead_Jester
2011-03-20, 08:44 AM
Space marines should not get HD on every level. That'd offer a slight semblance of balance, at least. Given how even near-elite space marines are not particularly superb snipers, the HD progression drop would go a long way towards suggesting balance. Besides, they don't need to be damage sponges with their power armour on - armour bonus stacks with natural armour and several others, so one would suppose space marines to have about 30 AC or so.

Um, I doubt this class will be used in a normal party. As such the balance level matters little, as long as it is similar for all players of the game (kinda like comparing DH to DW; ones gritty, the other one is legendary).

As for space marines not being superb snipers, the TT rules do seem to support some of that, but then again, the scouts are some of the best snipers in the game, so YMM. And let's not get into the fluff, were marines are the best marksmen this side of humanity (except maybe vindicare assassins). Also, HD isn't only hitpoints, it's also bab and saves, unless those are still given out, and marines definitely should be getting the same bab and saves as the best fighters around.

Icedaemon
2011-03-20, 02:45 PM
Well, I am saying this under the impression that not all the PCs will necessarily be marines, with guard officers and inquisitors in the mix as well.

Craftworld
2011-03-20, 02:48 PM
NAME OF CLASS
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Phases Completed (1,2,3,4,5), Scout Marine

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Phases Completed (6,7,8,9)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Phases Completed (10,11,12)

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Phases Completed (16,17,18,19), Battle Brother I

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|And They Shall Know No Fear

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+2|Battle Brother II

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+2|

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+2|Battle Brother III

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+3|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+3|A hopeless situation...and come out on top!

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+3|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+4|Inspire Guardsmen

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+4|Battle Brother IV

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+4|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+5|First Company Veteran

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+5|Sternguard Veteran/Vanguard Veteran

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+5|Know No Fear!

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+6|Company Rally!, Inspire Men

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+6|Company Charge!

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+6|FOR THE EMPEROR![/table]

I made you a shiny table (quote my post for the code). Also, as seen in the table, I'd suggest rolling those abilities into the heading of Battle Brother so it looks cleaner and then at each interval have the ability and then split it out like Ranger has for fighting styles.

I haven't actually looked at the class yet, though. Filling out a table is time consuming. XD

Edit1: Whoa,whoa,whoa. +2 to all physical stats, Run, Skill Bonuses, and the blood thing. All at first level that doesn't inspire the most confidence in balance right off that bat. I can think of half a dozen characters I've thought about making today along that would dip this for a +2 untyped bonus to physical stats and no loss of BAB. Yeah, space marines, but that should not be at first level, not even on a Monster Class.

I'd go on, but I'm going to let someone with more experience take a crack at this.

I like the Battle Brother I/II/III idea, and yeah, the players are all going to be using this class so balence shouldn't truly matter. I need ideas though for what the Battle Brother abilites should have for bonuses.

Craftworld
2011-03-20, 02:51 PM
Well, I am saying this under the impression that not all the PCs will necessarily be marines, with guard officers and inquisitors in the mix as well.

Sorry, as I posted the last one, I saw this and I don't know how to put this into the last one but I am having all of the players be Marines because Guard officers as a class would have troops at their command and that would slow things down as the flashlights got going.

Dead_Jester
2011-03-20, 03:25 PM
Sorry, as I posted the last one, I saw this and I don't know how to put this into the last one but I am having all of the players be Marines because Guard officers as a class would have troops at their command and that would slow things down as the flashlights got going.

What about the power level? Are you going for gritty, or for epic? This would have a huge impact on the actual design of the class.

Craftworld
2011-03-20, 04:15 PM
I am going to start them below 5 level but where exactly I have no idea.

The Glyphstone
2011-03-20, 04:55 PM
I am going to start them below 5 level but where exactly I have no idea.

He meant power level, not character level.

A gritty game is one were the characters are constantly threatened, and a few bad rolls can kill you. avoiding fights, or stacking them in your favor, is Plan A. You're weak, or average, and survive by being smart. You're a speck of dust in the plans of the universe, or just a cog in the machine, unexceptional and boring.

An Epic game is completely different. You're an unstoppable monster, who wades through legions and armies without anything more than minor flesh wounds. Only other creatures on your level can even threaten you, and your battles will devastate everything and everyone around you. You're a mover and a shaker, a living legend who shapes history and has epic stories written about them.

Which of these feels you want will affect how powerful you make the class.

Dead_Jester
2011-03-20, 07:06 PM
Actually, if your playing a wh40k game, the power levels aren't so clearly defined. Some heroes are little more than normal men (Commissar Gaunt, although it does tend to get crazy sometimes), but nonetheless have a huge impact, whilst some badass (Zho Sahaal) still live in a pretty gritty world and their accomplishments remain more or less unknown.

However, what really matter is the lethality of the game. Gritty games, no matter the influence of the players, are usually very lethal, and characters, although they do progress, never really become incredibly hard to kill. In contrast, epic games tend to be much less lethal, and the characters tend to have a much greater progression. The thing is, the 40k universe can be either of these, and it often is both (just not normally at the same time for the same people).

Craftworld
2011-03-20, 10:16 PM
I am looking at different types depending on where in the campaign. When they are deployed to fight in a Sepratist system, they will be more or less epic like the Marines in the fluff are because that is how I see Marines which is not what I fight against on the table top. When they fight the Orcs and the Necrons, they will be in tough spots pretty often but at the same time their impacts may have a large affect on the war as a whole. It should be fun!:smallbiggrin:

jiriku
2011-03-21, 12:25 AM
You should clarify the type of feedback you want to receive. It will help us give more focused advice.

Based on what's present:

You need to specify the size of the hit die the Space Marine receives at each level.
You need to establish a list of class skills, and specify how many skill points are gained at each level.
Phase 8 - More detail is needed to define the scope and function of this ability. How much of the foe needs to be consumed? What if only a fragment of the body remains? How long is the consumption expected to take? What sorts of information can the Marine expect to learn? What can he NOT expect to learn?
Phase 9 - How much longer can he go without breathing?
Phase 11 - What benefit does "honing in" on a sound provide?
Phase 12 - What happens in suspended animation? Does the Marine heal naturally, or at an accelerated rate, or at all? What if the Marine sustains further damage while in suspended animation? Does suspended animation provide any benefits other than not dying (for example, does it suspend the need to eat, drink, and/or breathe)?
Phase 14 - Can the Marine voluntarily lose consciousness? What type of action is required? How long must the Marine remain unconscious to purge the poison? Can he wake up on demand? If not, when does he awaken?
Phase 15 - How much must be eaten? What type of action is required? What characteristics does a Marine discern when he "identifies" a thing he has eaten? How does tracking by taste work, exactly?
Phase 16 - What level of protection is gained? Is it total immunity, or something less? Does the protection have a limited duration?
Phase 17 - What kind of action is required to spit poison? What's the range? How much damage does it deal? What's the DC of the saving throw? How long does it take to eat through common types of material?

Craftworld
2011-03-21, 04:13 PM
You should clarify the type of feedback you want to receive. It will help us give more focused advice.

Based on what's present:


You need to specify the size of the hit die the Space Marine receives at each level.Sorry, I meant to put this down. It is going to be d10 for the class.

You need to establish a list of class skills, and specify how many skill points are gained at each level.
I meant to put this down also. It is either going to be 4+Int mod or 6+Int mod. This is because Marines are more skilled then humans, but not the most skilled to everything in particular. The list, will probably be a chunk more extensive then fighter, but less extensive then Bard or Rogue.

Phase 8 - More detail is needed to define the scope and function of this ability. How much of the foe needs to be consumed? What if only a fragment of the body remains? How long is the consumption expected to take? What sorts of information can the Marine expect to learn? What can he NOT expect to learn?
I am going to make this DM's preference because I am sure that unless other people look at this class and want to use it in their own campaign (which I don't totally care about) and I think that the players will just ask and I will tell them what they learn out of eating them.

Phase 9 - How much longer can he go without breathing?I am going to go with twice as long, or a little longer.

Phase 11 - What benefit does "honing in" on a sound provide?
Still trying to get my source to load, will edit soon.The Marine, won't suffer penalties from offending sounds.
Phase 12 - What happens in suspended animation? Does the Marine heal naturally, or at an accelerated rate, or at all? What if the Marine sustains further damage while in suspended animation? Does suspended animation provide any benefits other than not dying (for example, does it suspend the need to eat, drink, and/or breathe)?
The Marine is asleep (basically hibernation but more extreme) and it seems as if the marine is dead because their pulse is slowed extensively, but in doing so, they heal slowly but the likelyhood is small that they die from wounds.(other then wounds that are inflicted upon the Marine after they are in this sleep) I am going to make it that they only need to breathe but they take breaths at like one every 20 minutes or so. In the Lexicanum it said that a Marine of the Dark Angels did this for over 550 years.

Phase 14 - Can the Marine voluntarily lose consciousness? What type of action is required? How long must the Marine remain unconscious to purge the poison? Can he wake up on demand? If not, when does he awaken?
I am going to go with they voluntarilly go unconscious but I will tell them that if they don't then they will be harmed severly by the poison, and the length will depend on the strength of the poison.

Phase 15 - How much must be eaten? What type of action is required? What characteristics does a Marine discern when he "identifies" a thing he has eaten? How does tracking by taste work, exactly?
I am going to go with it being like a snake for tracking and they can eat something and taste say copper, iron, cobalt, and nickel in it. (they will have had training in it so I will have just tell them...almost like cooking class except the teacher says "Here, this is [insert mineral or metal her] taste it!")

Phase 16 - What level of protection is gained? Is it total immunity, or something less? Does the protection have a limited duration?
I am going to go with pretty extensive protection and with their armor it will be total, except for the extreme cold that they will experience.

Phase 17 - What kind of action is required to spit poison? What's the range? How much damage does it deal? What's the DC of the saving throw? How long does it take to eat through common types of material?
It will probably be a free action because it doesn't take long for a snake to spit it's posion into your eyes or into you. The saving throw will probably be constitution based and depend on the Marine because of the difference in constitution of the Marines. For the time, I will look at the reactivity of the metals and go off that. It will take a shorter time to go through Magnesium then say Iron.

Craftworld
2011-03-22, 07:14 PM
Also, I am thinking of making a variant where you can choose to replace the Battle Brother ability with one based on chapter like a raging thing for the Space Wolves or Emporer's Devotion for Black Templar. What does ye all think?

Dead_Jester
2011-03-22, 08:05 PM
How about doing it like DW did, and having sort of 2 sets of abilities; on one side, you have your archetype abilities (devastator, assault, etc), and on the other side, you can pick from a series of chapter abilities unique to your chapter, and maybe a few universal ones (that could be some non-specialized stuff or options that didn't warrant a complete path). This would add more customization and versatility while still keeping both the normal framework and the chapter distinction.

Craftworld
2011-03-23, 08:49 PM
How about doing it like DW did, and having sort of 2 sets of abilities; on one side, you have your archetype abilities (devastator, assault, etc), and on the other side, you can pick from a series of chapter abilities unique to your chapter, and maybe a few universal ones (that could be some non-specialized stuff or options that didn't warrant a complete path). This would add more customization and versatility while still keeping both the normal framework and the chapter distinction.

Could you give me an example so that I can get a framework going?

umbrapolaris
2011-03-24, 12:49 AM
where are the other abilities of the class?

Dead_Jester
2011-03-24, 03:12 PM
Could you give me an example so that I can get a framework going?

For example, you could decide that say, at first level, and every 4 (or whatever) levels, marines get a Chapter ability.

This could be unique stuff like the Blood Rage for BA (some kind of frenzy ability), some sort of favored ennemy agains tyrannids for ultramarines. For some more universal stuff, you could include more general paths, such as techmarine or apothecary, as a series of abilities (with the later ones having the first as prerequisites).

As long as there are a couple of options per chapter, plus a few good univeral choices, and they are all more or less balanced against eachother, then it should work.

Icedaemon
2011-03-24, 03:46 PM
Wouldn't Ultramarine chapter-specific abilities be more related to propaganda, perhaps reputation points? Their failures are quickly forgotten and their successes emphasized.

I mean, they were the main group of Space Marines fighting the Tau, a race with very limited resources and poor warp-drive technology. Somehow, humanity lost. Noone seems to blame the smurfs though.

Dead_Jester
2011-03-24, 05:26 PM
Wouldn't Ultramarine chapter-specific abilities be more related to propaganda, perhaps reputation points? Their failures are quickly forgotten and their successes emphasized.

I mean, they were the main group of Space Marines fighting the Tau, a race with very limited resources and poor warp-drive technology. Somehow, humanity lost. Noone seems to blame the smurfs though.

There's no reason both couldn't be included. Every chapter has a variety of different traits that makes them unique, and it should be up to the player to decide which aspect or tradition of his chapter to use, and if he should use all or only a part of them (filling the rest of his potential slots with universal stuff).

Craftworld
2011-03-24, 10:03 PM
Wouldn't Ultramarine chapter-specific abilities be more related to propaganda, perhaps reputation points? Their failures are quickly forgotten and their successes emphasized.

I mean, they were the main group of Space Marines fighting the Tau, a race with very limited resources and poor warp-drive technology. Somehow, humanity lost. Noone seems to blame the smurfs though.
The Imperium attacked them during the Damocles Gulf Crusade so it was not just Space Marines fighting them. The Tau were on the defensive and they also have more advanced weaponry then the Imperium. The Tau pretty much sat back and fired their burst cannons at the Guardsmen, and their plasma at the Marines. Also, if the Tyranids had not have had an incursion "north" of the Crusade, the Imperium would have just continued smashing in and probably would have won, but they lost mostly because of the Tyranids and then they had to be reassigned to a new warzone to combat a more dangerous enemy.
Also, I am going to go with something like reputation points but not so hard and fast. More like "they are marines so we as humans and Imperial citizens like them."

For example, you could decide that say, at first level, and every 4 (or whatever) levels, marines get a Chapter ability.

This could be unique stuff like the Blood Rage for BA (some kind of frenzy ability), some sort of favored ennemy agains tyrannids for ultramarines. For some more universal stuff, you could include more general paths, such as techmarine or apothecary, as a series of abilities (with the later ones having the first as prerequisites).

As long as there are a couple of options per chapter, plus a few good univeral choices, and they are all more or less balanced against eachother, then it should work.

I am going to have them all be from the same chapter and for now I am not going to mess with a specific special chapter for simplicity's sake, so I just need ideas for the Battle Brother ability now.

I, Dashing Cube
2011-03-25, 08:45 AM
I am going to have them all be from the same chapter and for now I am not going to mess with a specific special chapter for simplicity's sake, so I just need ideas for the Battle Brother ability now.

Ok then, how about making it like a combat style? Tactical marines should get stuff related to buffing and/or support, and should get a lot of versatility in their equpiment. Assault marines and devastators are both givens, with bonuses to melee and ranged respectively, but you could also include more special stuff, such as letting assault marines get bonuses for scouting, maybe some rage type thing, and so on, and maybe give the devastators some abilities related to targetting stuff for the rest of the team, givng them all some bonuses.

As for the other stuff, librarians should get a couple of powers that should scale with level, but shouldn't be able to master all of them, apothecaries should get bonuses for healing, and maybe when targetting biological targets, while techmarine should be able to enhance the squads gear and should get stuff related to dealing with armored foes and fortification.

Craftworld
2011-03-25, 06:30 PM
Ok then, how about making it like a combat style? Tactical marines should get stuff related to buffing and/or support, and should get a lot of versatility in their equpiment. Assault marines and devastators are both givens, with bonuses to melee and ranged respectively, but you could also include more special stuff, such as letting assault marines get bonuses for scouting, maybe some rage type thing, and so on, and maybe give the devastators some abilities related to targetting stuff for the rest of the team, givng them all some bonuses.

As for the other stuff, librarians should get a couple of powers that should scale with level, but shouldn't be able to master all of them, apothecaries should get bonuses for healing, and maybe when targetting biological targets, while techmarine should be able to enhance the squads gear and should get stuff related to dealing with armored foes and fortification.

Yeah, I am going to have Tacticals be the supporters and the other two are obvious, so yeah, I will be getting them down maybe tonight and I will post them for crits.
Librarians, Chaplains, and Terminatorts are going to be Prestige classes that I may not have to make because we may not get there.

Dead_Jester
2011-03-25, 08:22 PM
Librarians, Chaplains, and Terminatorts are going to be Prestige classes that I may not have to make because we may not get there.

I agree with both terminators and chaplains, as they are both advanced archetypes, but librarians never serve as anything but librarians. In the end, it's up to you, but I think librarian (and maybe also techmarine) could be integrated into the standard progression.

Craftworld
2011-03-27, 09:51 AM
I agree with both terminators and chaplains, as they are both advanced archetypes, but librarians never serve as anything but librarians. In the end, it's up to you, but I think librarian (and maybe also techmarine) could be integrated into the standard progression.

I am trying to build the Archetype of Space Marine and the Techmarines and Librarians are their own Archetypes in and of themselves so I believe that they deserve their own prestige classes. I do see your point here, but I just don't totally know how I would put them into the class, without drawing things away from the Archetype as I want it.

Brother Oni
2011-03-27, 10:14 AM
Also, I am thinking of making a variant where you can choose to replace the Battle Brother ability with one based on chapter like a raging thing for the Space Wolves or Emporer's Devotion for Black Templar. What does ye all think?

If you're going for Chapter specific traits, don't forget to include the geneseed flaws each chapter has or the various other bits of fluff.

For example, the Imperial Fists don't have the Betcher's Gland or the Sus-an Membrane and a behavioural predilection towards pain. Blood Angels would have the problems of the Black Rage and the Red Thirst.


I am trying to build the Archetype of Space Marine and the Techmarines and Librarians are their own Archetypes in and of themselves so I believe that they deserve their own prestige classes. I do see your point here, but I just don't totally know how I would put them into the class, without drawing things away from the Archetype as I want it.

I'm not so sure about Librarians being a prestige class - it's not as if a marine suddenly can suddenly become a psyker. Probably better to set them up as a an entirely separate class, just one very similar to the battle brother.

Craftworld
2011-03-27, 04:48 PM
If you're going for Chapter specific traits, don't forget to include the geneseed flaws each chapter has or the various other bits of fluff.

For example, the Imperial Fists don't have the Betcher's Gland or the Sus-an Membrane and a behavioural predilection towards pain. Blood Angels would have the problems of the Black Rage and the Red Thirst.

Yeah, I am going to search for info on how I would run this and then see if my players would like to play as those chapters.


I'm not so sure about Librarians being a prestige class - it's not as if a marine suddenly can suddenly become a psyker. Probably better to set them up as a an entirely separate class, just one very similar to the battle brother.
Yeah, I will probably do it once I get the test done and once a player dies, I add a person as a Librarian.

Craftworld
2011-03-29, 09:13 PM
I have Battle Brother I and II, so I reviewfor them to see if they aren't to broken, and I need ideas for the next two Battle Brother abilities.

Here is the first Battle Brother Ability

Assault Ferocity-When you charge, you get one extra attack at your highest Base Attack Bonus.
Tactical Defense-Allies within 10ft of you gain +1 to their Armor Class
Devastator Fire-In a turn in which you do not move, you gain one extra attack at your highest Base Attack Bonus.

Here is the second Battle Brother Ability

Assault Tenacity-When you charge an enemy, you may use a free bull rush attepmt prior to your attack. After their attack of oppurtunity, test the bull rush then if they are knocked down their AC is their AC while prone.
Tactical Support-Allies within 15ft of you all have a +2 bonus to their Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
Devastator Accuracy-If you do not move, you may annouce that one attack in that round you may either ignore 1/2 of their armor bonus or 1/2 of their cover bonus.

Ideas, critiques?

Craftworld
2011-03-31, 05:47 PM
Does anyone have any ideas for the next two Battle Brother things?