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View Full Version : 4e vs 3.x which is harder?



randomhero00
2011-03-20, 04:58 PM
Say it came down to two groups, the players are all average, the DMs are above average in experience.

Which edition is harder?

For me 4e was harder. But that may be due to lack of testing, the module we ran, etc.

dsmiles
2011-03-20, 05:02 PM
Harder how?

Harder to learn? 3.5e, hands down.
Harder to play? 3.5e, hands down.
Harder to play effectively? 3.5e, hands down.
Harder to role-play in? Neither, roleplaying is what you make of it.

I'm pretty well-versed in both rulesets, and for me, the switch from 2.0e/2.5e to 3.0e/3.5e was harder than the switch from 3.5e to 4e.

The Glyphstone
2011-03-20, 05:03 PM
It depends on how long you let it sit out of the freezer. Personally, I like scooping out my vanilla and letting it sit just long enough to get soft, so when I'm finishing it off it's melted into a soupy consistency.

dsmiles
2011-03-20, 05:05 PM
It depends on how long you let it sit out of the freezer. Personally, I like scooping out my pistachio and letting it sit just long enough to get soft, so when I'm finishing it off it's melted into a soupy consistency.There, that's better. :smalltongue:

The Glyphstone
2011-03-20, 05:06 PM
There, that's better. :smalltongue:

Eh. Ice cream with nuts in it is best eaten while hard, otherwise the melting ice cream and crunchy filling bits end up separating.

dsmiles
2011-03-20, 05:08 PM
Honestly, I prefer Ben & Jerry's Maple Blondie, but I didn't want to change your post that much. Pistachio is a close second.

erikun
2011-03-20, 05:14 PM
I've never enjoyed ice cream with nuts. I guess it's similar to my aversion of chocolate-nut combination, plus the fact that biting into cold things is distinctly unpleasant.

For the record, I prefer mint ice cream. Not only is it my favorite, but the menthol alcohol that provides the flavor gives it a lower melting point and keeps it soft at lower temperatures.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-03-20, 05:15 PM
Fastest. Thread. Derail. EVER. :smalleek: for the record my favourite ice cream is a combination of strawberry, vanilla and chocolate, called Napolitano in spanish, no idea in english.

I would say harder to run and play, 3.5 hands down, AFAIK 4e was designeded with an easy to play easy to run mentality.

Eldan
2011-03-20, 05:20 PM
You can get Pistachio ice cream without nut chunks in it. Pretty good too. But then, I like pretty much all ice cream, if it's well made.

The Glyphstone
2011-03-20, 05:29 PM
Fastest. Thread. Derail. EVER. :smalleek: for the record my favourite ice cream is a combination of strawberry, vanilla and chocolate, called Napolitano in spanish, no idea in english.

I would say harder to run and play, 3.5 hands down, AFAIK 4e was designeded with an easy to play easy to run mentality.

They call that a Napoleon in English - so, basically the same thing.:smallsmile:

Seerow
2011-03-20, 05:32 PM
Banana/Chocolate ice cream is where it's at, when I can get my hands on it. Otherwise a neapolitan is always a good option, though I'm just as happy without the vanilla in it.

Mike_G
2011-03-20, 05:35 PM
They call that a Napoleon in English - so, basically the same thing.:smallsmile:

Neapolitan. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_ice_cream) Not Napoleon. After the city in Italy, not the Emperor of France.

The Glyphstone
2011-03-20, 05:35 PM
Neapolitan. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_ice_cream) Not Napoleon. After the city in Italy, not the Emperor of France.

That...makes sense. I always wondered why he got ice cream named after him.

Jack Zander
2011-03-20, 05:41 PM
Harder to learn? 3.5e, hands down.
Harder to play? 3.5e, hands down.
Harder to play effectively? 3.5e, hands down.
Harder to role-play in? Neither, roleplaying is what you make of it.

Pretty much this, but I'm going to add one more.

Harder to make sense of the world you adventure in? 4.0

Saph
2011-03-20, 05:42 PM
No votes for strawberry? I'm disappointed.

The-Mage-King
2011-03-20, 05:46 PM
Mint. With chocolate chips and rainbow sprinkles. And chocolate shavings if I can add them.

...I have a sweet tooth the size of Godzilla, okay?

randomhero00
2011-03-20, 05:46 PM
sorry, by harder I meant which more often produces challenges that actually challenge the party?

erikun
2011-03-20, 05:54 PM
sorry, by harder I meant which more often produces challenges that actually challenge the party?
I'm not familiar with specific published adventures, so I can't say.

3.5e tends towards wearing down the resources of a party, so that taking on one extra challange (or getting caught in a really bad position) can end up killing the party. 4e generally starts the party out fresh for every single enounter, so they are much harder to kill - although the individual fights in 4e are a bit more dangerous.

dsmiles
2011-03-20, 06:19 PM
I'm not familiar with specific published adventures, so I can't say.

3.5e tends towards wearing down the resources of a party, so that taking on one extra challange (or getting caught in a really bad position) can end up killing the party. 4e generally starts the party out fresh for every single enounter, so they are much harder to kill - although the individual fights in 4e are a bit more dangerous.Not fresh. Daily powers aren't regained except after an extended rest.

ken-do-nim
2011-03-20, 06:39 PM
sorry, by harder I meant which more often produces challenges that actually challenge the party?

For 3E it all depends on the player make-up. You can have the following:
1 - a bunch of players who don't optimize
2 - a mix of optimizers and non-optimizers
3 - everybody is an optimizer

In 3E, it is quite easy to challenge #1 and I dare say that published modules can be quite challenging and satisfying for them. #2 is a pain in the butt, because you tend to amp things up so that the optimizers feel pain, but that ends up getting the non-optimizers really frustrated. #3 is not quite as easy to challenge as #1; you tend to have to break verisimilitude to do it and lose your DM aura of fair refereeing. Honestly, hats off to 3.5 DMs who can deal well with #2 or #3.

Kurald Galain
2011-03-20, 06:49 PM
No votes for strawberry? I'm disappointed.

Strawberry. Happy now? :smallbiggrin:

stainboy
2011-03-20, 06:56 PM
Strawberry is a strong ice cream out of the box but suffers from a lack of topping support. In a low-optimization dessert it might be appropriate, but if nuts, syrups, or bite-sized candies are allowed it simply can't compete. Tier Four ice cream at best.

Zaydos
2011-03-20, 06:58 PM
In my experience 3.X has generally offered more challenge than 4e.

erikun
2011-03-20, 07:05 PM
Strawberry is a strong ice cream out of the box but suffers from a lack of topping support. In a low-optimization dessert it might be appropriate, but if nuts, syrups, or bite-sized candies are allowed it simply can't compete. Tier Four ice cream at best.
Strawberry with Chocolate Syurp is delicious and easily a substitute for the more expensive Chocolate-Cherry flavor. Not everyone can afford the splatbooks for something as fancy as ChocoCherry, though, and the Strawberry + ChocoSyurp combination works just as well.

It's major failing is that it doesn't mix as well as other flavors with Fudge, but Fudge is considered an overpowered topping by a lot of people and not allowed at all tables.

DeltaEmil
2011-03-20, 07:18 PM
If this thread keeps getting derailed that much, shouldn't it be closed and a new one be opened?

WitchSlayer
2011-03-20, 07:29 PM
If this thread keeps getting derailed that much, shouldn't it be closed and a new one be opened?

Or we could forget the thread ever existed.

Things are easier that way

Phish food was here. All other ice-creams are a loser.

The Glyphstone
2011-03-20, 07:51 PM
If this thread keeps getting derailed that much, shouldn't it be closed and a new one be opened?

It'll probably just happen again. We like defusing potential edition wars before they start by drowning them in ice cream, but it gets a bit energetic when people argue over which flavor to us.

Yukitsu
2011-03-20, 08:21 PM
Strawberry is a strong ice cream out of the box but suffers from a lack of topping support. In a low-optimization dessert it might be appropriate, but if nuts, syrups, or bite-sized candies are allowed it simply can't compete. Tier Four ice cream at best.

This is a common misconception. Just take natural flavour with your sixth scoop and you're better than any combination of flavours mixed together, except for the uber versatile vanilla (which can do anything with enough optimization, including being strawberry) and chocolate, which is probably as well rounded as strawberry.

On the original topic, the one you're less familiar with is harder. If you've never played either, 3.5 is harder.

FelixG
2011-03-20, 08:24 PM
All of you ice-cream conformists disgust me!

I prefer making my own ice-cream combinations. :smallbiggrin:

Chess435
2011-03-20, 08:25 PM
It'll probably just happen again. We like defusing potential edition wars before they start by drowning them in ice cream, but it gets a bit energetic when people argue over which flavor to us.

I see what you did there. :smallcool:
Best. Thread. Defusement. Ever.

In my opinion, if you're going to go, go all the way. I'm talking about mint choclate chip smothered in hot fudge and those little nut bits, with some cherries on top. All in a waffle cone bowl so you can eat it afterwards. That, my friends, is at least a solid Tier 2 dessert right there. :smallwink:

FelixG
2011-03-20, 08:27 PM
I see what you did there. :smallcool:
Best. Thread. Defusement. Ever.

In my opinion, if you're going to go, go all the way. I'm talking about mint choclate chip smothered in hot fudge and those little nut bits, with some cherries on top. All in a waffle cone bowl so you can eat it afterwards. :smallwink:

Ohhh Waffle cones! I have not had one of those forever!

dsmiles
2011-03-20, 08:30 PM
Wrong. All wrong.

Deep-Fried Vanilla Ice Cream. With Honey topping, whipped cream (not that stuff from the freezer section, nor that crap in a can, but the real stuff), and a single Maraschino Cherry. Thats' your Tier 1, right there. :smallwink:

Pentachoron
2011-03-20, 08:31 PM
Clearly the most superior ice cream is Moose Tracks. It has the versatility of vanilla with the extra flavour of peanut butter.

Chess435
2011-03-20, 08:35 PM
Wrong. All wrong.

Deep-Fried Vanilla Ice Cream. With Honey topping, whipped cream (not that stuff from the freezer section, nor that crap in a can, but the real stuff), and a single Maraschino Cherry. Thats' your Tier 1, right there. :smallwink:

Meh, I prefer Tier 2 anyway. Almost as good, but you don't have to put in nearly as much work. This applies to both D&D and ice cream, yay! Now all I have to do is find a way to connect it to everything else and I'll have solved life!

FelixG
2011-03-20, 08:37 PM
Wrong. All wrong.

Deep-Fried Vanilla Ice Cream. With Honey topping, whipped cream (not that stuff from the freezer section, nor that crap in a can, but the real stuff), and a single Maraschino Cherry. Thats' your Tier 1, right there. :smallwink:

This is the most tasty thread sense the 3.5 MM cookbook!

And its making me hungry...

http://www.myspacefx.net/import/graphics/Funny_Graphics_and_Pics/lol-cats_i-love-this-thread-so-much.jpg

Chess435
2011-03-20, 08:41 PM
Clearly the most superior ice cream is Moose Tracks. It has the versatility of vanilla with the extra flavour of peanut butter.

Not necessarily. The peanut butter, while synergizing well with nut and chocolate flavors, carries a heavy circumstance penalty on interactions with fruit flavors, detracting from Vanilla's natural strength.

Knaight
2011-03-20, 08:55 PM
Not necessarily. The peanut butter, while synergizing well with nut and chocolate flavors, carries a heavy circumstance penalty on interactions with fruit flavors, detracting from Vanilla's natural strength.

One must note the exceptions of apple and banana when evaluating peanut butter - fruit relations. Given that chocolate fruit synergy is at its weakest when evaluating apple and banana (with the notable exception of stuff like durian) it essentially allows peanut butter to choose between fruit and chocolate.

holywhippet
2011-03-20, 09:02 PM
Wrong. All wrong.

Deep-Fried Vanilla Ice Cream. With Honey topping, whipped cream (not that stuff from the freezer section, nor that crap in a can, but the real stuff), and a single Maraschino Cherry. Thats' your Tier 1, right there. :smallwink:

I've made deep-fried ice cream several times before - generally I put caramel topping on it rather than honey. Doesn't need whipped cream either.

As for which edition results in the harder (as in more difficult) situations - it really is up to the DM as to what they throw at you at any given time that determines difficulty to a certain extent. However, I'd have to give the edge to 4th edition for letting you make a hard fight that stays hard. 3rd edition sometimes like players win fights they shouldn't by careful use of spells. Like climbing up a cliff face using spider climb so that none of the enemies (who only had melee weapons) could reach them. 4th edition doesn't have nearly as many "abusive" combos available - which is both a good and a bad thing depending on how you play.

Chess435
2011-03-20, 09:15 PM
One must note the exceptions of apple and banana when evaluating peanut butter - fruit relations. Given that chocolate fruit synergy is at its weakest when evaluating apple and banana (with the notable exception of stuff like durian) it essentially allows peanut butter to choose between fruit and chocolate.

Ah, I forgot about the possibility of the peanut butter taking the fresh fruit topping prestige class. You've inspired me to explore the chocolate-peanut butter-fruit interactions and put together a build involving a few levels in moose tracks, moving into the fresh fruit topping (banana) PrC, and then finally taking a 1 level dip into chocolate. Should I throw in a couple levels of waffle cone, or would that be too optimized? I'm trying to stick with a nice balanced Tier 3 dessert here.

navar100
2011-03-20, 09:18 PM
3E is harder to learn, but that doesn't make it worse to play. That is one's personal preference. Harder also doesn't mean it's hard to learn, just a more involved rule set than 4E.

KingRexII
2011-03-20, 10:11 PM
Ah, I forgot about the possibility of the peanut butter taking the fresh fruit topping prestige class.

That doesn't work because that PrC requires 2 Topping feats, and peanut butter is only eligible, by RAW, to take Filling feats. I think most people would hand wave it in, though, invoking the spirit of RAI, stating that the authors meant to include peanut butter sauce as part of the class.

Now, you've inspired to build a banana split, the veritable Incantatrix of ice cream.

...

I don't know well how it is in 4e, but I know that in 3.x, a little bit of knowledge about the game system can go a long way. Someone who's done her homework (say on these boards) has quite the leg up on someone who has only flipped through the source books and created only builds that he knows he likes. (For example, I mostly prefer melee characters, but if ever pressed to create a wizard, I surely know how to turn him into Batman, something I wouldn't have known how to do if I didn't peruse the Roleplaying Forum here from time to time.)

Given your premise, an above average DM can certainly leverage the system a great deal more effectively to challenge her just average players in 3.x.

sonofzeal
2011-03-20, 10:34 PM
French Vanilla for me. It's like the ToB of ice creams - same basic flavour as the classic, but with all the dials turned up to 11. French Vanilla practically defines Tier 3, which is where all ice cream eating experiences should aim to end up, anyway.

Knaight
2011-03-20, 11:07 PM
Ah, I forgot about the possibility of the peanut butter taking the fresh fruit topping prestige class. You've inspired me to explore the chocolate-peanut butter-fruit interactions and put together a build involving a few levels in moose tracks, moving into the fresh fruit topping (banana) PrC, and then finally taking a 1 level dip into chocolate. Should I throw in a couple levels of waffle cone, or would that be too optimized? I'm trying to stick with a nice balanced Tier 3 dessert here.

I'd go with a sugar cone coated with chocolate. Waffle might be a bit over the top, and tends to bring forth attention from the sweet king. The sweet king must not have attention put upon your build.

Zaydos
2011-03-20, 11:25 PM
French Vanilla for me. It's like the ToB of ice creams - same basic flavour as the classic, but with all the dials turned up to 11. French Vanilla practically defines Tier 3, which is where all ice cream eating experiences should aim to end up, anyway.

I prefer good Mexican Vanilla. It makes French Vanilla look like an unoptimized fighter. It's a rare thing, though, and in general French Vanilla is my favorite flavor I can find.

Pentachoron
2011-03-21, 12:22 AM
I prefer good Mexican Vanilla. It makes French Vanilla look like an unoptimized fighter. It's a rare thing, though, and in general French Vanilla is my favorite flavor I can find.

This Mexican vanilla intrigues me. I wish to learn more.


*Edit* Really, I don't know why everyone is so fixated on ice cream. It's archaic and there's so many deserts that are out now that are so superior, and much more balanced in flavor. Like cheesecake.

Oracle_Hunter
2011-03-21, 12:43 AM
This Mexican vanilla intrigues me. I wish to learn more.


*Edit* Really, I don't know why everyone is so fixated on ice cream. It's archaic and there's so many deserts that are out now that are so superior, and much more balanced in flavor. Like cheesecake.
Cheesecake is a fad that will be forgotten as quickly as the Ice Cream Wars when Coffee was introduced. Seriously, you should have seen all the people trying to homebrew True Chocolate which was really just Mocha with a different wrapper.

Man, I'm just glad I got in before the toffee topic was closed :smalltongue:

super dark33
2011-03-21, 12:49 AM
maybe we should open an ice cream theread in friendly banter? oh i will!

EDIT: there it is! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191712)

Essence_of_War
2011-03-21, 06:31 AM
I love avocados, so my first ice cream I made with my girlfriend's ice cream maker was avocado. IT WAS UNREAL :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

FelixG
2011-03-21, 10:08 AM
OMG VICTORY IS MINE!!

I found ice-cream in my fridge last night...I just thought you, my friends, should know of this groundbreaking discovery.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-21, 10:35 AM
Last night, I had the most fantastic pistachio ice cream I've ever tasted. Little arabic restaurant in Bethesda, MD. The dude makes it by hand.

On the actual topic, I suspect that DMing style and module choice are probably much bigger factors than system. Also, what you mean by difficulty. The same things are not equally difficult for all players. So, it's really hard to answer this objectively at all.

If you just define it as "which one is more lethal to players", then 3.5, sure. But I'm not sure that's really useful.

TheArsenal
2011-03-21, 10:38 AM
Well

3e Is harder to Learn, but has more flexibility

4e Is More gamist, but is great for getting into DnD, then shifting to 3e.

Darth Stabber
2011-03-21, 12:12 PM
Honestly whipped cream is just for fluff, but luckily it doesn't really detract from your build. Don't expect it to have any real effect on the crunch.

Darth Stabber
2011-03-21, 12:23 PM
Plus I'm getting sick of all these Uberchocolate builds. You see them every where. They start out chocolate then they take ranks in chocolate chips. Then they add Improved Brownie Chunk, and Greater Chocolate Chunk, and Top it off with maxed out Chocolate syrup. The other day I saw one with chocolate whipped cream. This kind of minmaxing is why I switched to Froyo.

Gavinfoxx
2011-03-21, 12:29 PM
Pffft. You all are still eating ICE CREAM?

Really. That's a *foundational error*.

Frozen custard is where it's at!

*Hoards his Bananas Foster Frozen Custard*

valadil
2011-03-21, 12:51 PM
sorry, by harder I meant which more often produces challenges that actually challenge the party?

4e. Hear me out. There is less variation in power levels between PCs. There is also less variation in monster ability. As a GM, I can stick to XP budget and know exactly how tough a fight will be. With the MM3 damage errata, I've stuck exactly to budget. This usually leads to me downing a PC, but not killing anyone. If I want more of a challenge I'll give myself an extra 10% XP to play around with. 4e allows greater precision when designing fights, so you can afford to get much closer to a tough fight without actually causing a TPK.

That said, I think 3.5 is more lethal out of the box. Your level one characters will die in one hit, but that doesn't happen in 4e. 4e was designed to be a little friendlier, but tweaking it towards being more lethal is pretty easy.

Ertwin
2011-03-21, 12:53 PM
I recently discovered Root beer flavoured ice cream which is an amazingly well balanced ice cream replacing the popular ice cream and pop multi-class

CynicalAvocado
2011-03-21, 01:37 PM
I love avocados, so my first ice cream I made with my girlfriend's ice cream maker was avocado. IT WAS UNREAL :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

you ate what now?:smalleek:

that actually sounds amazing

Volthawk
2011-03-21, 01:42 PM
Wrong. All wrong.

Deep-Fried Vanilla Ice Cream. With Honey topping, whipped cream (not that stuff from the freezer section, nor that crap in a can, but the real stuff), and a single Maraschino Cherry. Thats' your Tier 1, right there. :smallwink:

Huh, don't think I've had deep fried ice cream before...

dsmiles
2011-03-21, 01:49 PM
Last night, I had the most fantastic pistachio ice cream I've ever tasted. Little arabic restaurant in Bethesda, MD. The dude makes it by hand.

On the actual topic, I suspect that DMing style and module choice are probably much bigger factors than system. Also, what you mean by difficulty. The same things are not equally difficult for all players. So, it's really hard to answer this objectively at all.

If you just define it as "which one is more lethal to players", then 3.5, sure. But I'm not sure that's really useful.
Can you PM me the addy? I'll drive an hour for awesome ice creams. :smallbiggrin:

Psyren
2011-03-21, 02:26 PM
4e allows greater precision when designing fights, so you can afford to get much closer to a tough fight without actually causing a TPK.

I'm inclined to agree here; there's a lot more daylight between curbstomp battle and TPK in 4e.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-21, 03:14 PM
Can you PM me the addy? I'll drive an hour for awesome ice creams. :smallbiggrin:

Sent. The Baklava was also fantastic. I don't even eat it normally, since most of it is just "pastry dunked in honey", but this stuff was terrific. Ideally, get both.

Essence_of_War
2011-03-21, 03:58 PM
Tyndmyr,

I'd appreciate a PM of that also, I'm near to the area and love good baklava and pistachio ice cream!

Tyndmyr
2011-03-21, 04:18 PM
Posted for all to enjoy. Not advertising, since I get absolutely nothing for posting it.

http://bistrolazeez.com/

dsmiles
2011-03-21, 04:27 PM
Posted for all to enjoy. Not advertising, since I get absolutely nothing for posting it.

http://bistrolazeez.com/

Bullcrap. You get a cookie! :smallbiggrin:
http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/super_mario_cookie.jpg

Dreadn4ught
2011-03-21, 04:52 PM
Cinnamon ice cream. Superior.

I have not found many places that have it, but it is incredible.

Tiki Snakes
2011-03-21, 04:59 PM
Just because a flavour isn't the most powerful, doesn't mean you should rule it out. If you ever get the opportunity to try out Rose flavoured ice-cream, I'd give it a go.

It's a very soft, flowery flavour (for headbangingly obvious reasons) though it's vanishingly rare.

dsmiles
2011-03-21, 05:07 PM
Just because a flavour isn't the most powerful, doesn't mean you should rule it out. If you ever get the opportunity to try out Rose flavoured ice-cream, I'd give it a go.

It's a very soft, flowery flavour (for headbangingly obvious reasons) though it's vanishingly rare.

That actually sounds pretty good. Have you tried the Green Tea ice cream? Nomilicious.

balistafreak
2011-03-21, 05:09 PM
No love for ice cream integrated with cherries, or any kind?

I am disappoint.

Eloel
2011-03-21, 05:30 PM
Sent. The Baklava was also fantastic. I don't even eat it normally, since most of it is just "pastry dunked in honey", but this stuff was terrific. Ideally, get both.
Anyone who thinks baklava is "pastry dunked in honey" has been eating something that is very far from baklava. Like, VERY far.

Also, noone mentioned lemon ice-cream? Is it really only my favorite?

Jayabalard
2011-03-21, 05:55 PM
That...makes sense. I always wondered why he got ice cream named after him.it's because he was short. Short people get ice cream named after them.

holywhippet
2011-03-21, 06:24 PM
Huh, don't think I've had deep fried ice cream before...

It's generally found at Chinese restaurants - or at least it is in Australia. Everyone should try it at least once but it's not something you'd want regularly.

Ok, it is something you'd want regularly (since it tastes awesome) but unless you burn off a low of energy each day it wouldn't be a good idea.

dsmiles
2011-03-21, 06:30 PM
It's generally found at Chinese restaurants - or at least it is in Australia. Everyone should try it at least once but it's not something you'd want regularly.

Ok, it is something you'd want regularly (since it tastes awesome) but unless you burn off a low of energy each day it wouldn't be a good idea.
I've always found it at Mexican restaurants, here in the US.

Yukitsu
2011-03-21, 06:31 PM
it's because he was short. Short people get ice cream named after them.

He wasn't short...

dsmiles
2011-03-21, 06:32 PM
He wasn't short...Quite correct. He was of (what was considered) average height in that day and age.

Dralnu
2011-03-21, 06:34 PM
I'm a big fan of mint chocolate chip. I don't know too many people who like it though.

The Glyphstone
2011-03-21, 08:12 PM
Quite correct. He was of (what was considered) average height in that day and age.

Yeah, he was fairly normal height - 5ft 7in., or 1.7 metres for European folks.

holywhippet
2011-03-21, 08:58 PM
I've always found it at Mexican restaurants, here in the US.

A quick check of the online phone book shows exactly one Mexican restaurant in the city I'm in. They aren't especially common in Australia. Chinese restaurants though? Even in the small town I grew up in there's several.


Yeah, he was fairly normal height - 5ft 7in., or 1.7 metres for European folks.
The insult about Napolean's height has two basis AFAIK. The first is that the English really hated him (probably more than the hated the French in general at that point in time) so they spread insults about him. The second is that he'd likely be seen in the presence of his elite bodyguard unit which would have consisted mostly of big, tall men. As such, he'd appear short in comparison.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-21, 10:06 PM
Probably true on the baklava. It seems to vary immensely depending on source.


I'm a big fan of mint chocolate chip. I don't know too many people who like it though.

I'm a fan. That said, I like very diverse flavors of ice cream. Also frozen custards, if I'm in the mood.

Yknow, I have an ice cream maker I haven't used in forever. This thread has really given me a hankering to bust it out. This will either end in glory, or pizza flavored frozen atrocities. I make no guarantees.

Darth Stabber
2011-03-21, 11:47 PM
Also, noone mentioned lemon ice-cream? Is it really only my favorite?

I feel the sherbet system has a better implementation of that concept, though it really dcoes overspeciallize in citrus.

Knaight
2011-03-22, 12:42 AM
Cinnamon ice cream. Superior.

I have not found many places that have it, but it is incredible.

Lavender is also really good, though I've seen it in a grand total of one place.

The_JJ
2011-03-22, 12:58 AM
I prefer a homebrew solution working in elements of the Ice Cream system and the Brownie system, into something very Cake inspired.

Step one: Cook brownies. Aim for thinner, works best in a nonstick glass baking pan.

Step two: Freeze brownies in pan.

Step three: Thaw ice cream.

Step four: Pour ice cream over brownies, add to top as desired (choc syrup or caramel is Core Recipe As Written, but many Variants exist).

Step five: Refreeze.

Step six: Cut and serve as in step three of Cake.

What this changes the dynamic of what ice cream is most optimal. Personally I like the Heath Bar kind, to balance my Flavor with Crunch.

Incidentally, since you're conducting step three anyway, it's a perfect system for your own homebrew flavors. Vanilla + X remains a common stand by dip, but try exploring other 'smooth' flavors that haven't gotten as much love from the 'official' sources.

lyko555
2011-03-22, 11:17 AM
i myself have found a wonderfully optimized build of tempura fried vanila ice cream. It has a nice solid outer ac with tons of fluff under the shell then when you get down to the core its nothing but good times.

Mark Hall
2011-03-22, 11:39 AM
Say it came down to two groups, the players are all average, the DMs are above average in experience.

Which edition is harder?

For me 4e was harder. But that may be due to lack of testing, the module we ran, etc.

I would say that 3.x wins by most definitions of hardness. It's got a bigger curve to system mastery, system mastery is essential to making an effective character, and there's a lot more work involved as a GM.

On the other hand, I've lost a lot more characters in my few years of 4e than I ever did in 3.x, some in bursts of immediate brutality (I actually had one character who lasted less than a single round of combat).

Jayabalard
2011-03-22, 12:05 PM
On the other hand, I've lost a lot more characters in my few years of 4e than I ever did in 3.x, some in bursts of immediate brutality (I actually had one character who lasted less than a single round of combat).Any particular reason on that? Or has it just been mostly a string of bad luck?

NMBLNG
2011-03-22, 12:26 PM
4e is a lot easier to DM, as monster stats are a bit simpler, and most non-combat things are along the lines of 'make something up' or 'it just happens'.

I'd actually say that 3.5 has the potential to be more simple than 4e. Take a level 1 3.5 fighter. Aside from selecting feats and learning the basics, all you have to worry about is hitting things. While in 4e, every class has some interesting class mechanics on top of the basics.

That said, 3.5 also has a lot more potential complexity than 4e. Once you learn 1 class in 4e, it's not that hard to learn another, as most of the mechanics are the same, you may just have to change tactics or pay attention to different things.

Overall, 4e is easier.

kyoryu
2011-03-22, 01:10 PM
Or we could forget the thread ever existed.

Things are easier that way

Phish food was here. All other ice-creams are a loser.

Phish Food is just a pretender to Cherry Garcia's throne.

(and that works on more than one level)

Mark Hall
2011-03-22, 02:51 PM
Any particular reason on that? Or has it just been mostly a string of bad luck?

Probably a combination of "Hzurr hates me" and overconfidence. It also helps that, with the character builder, they're a lot easier to make, so death doesn't scare as much.

Hzurr
2011-03-22, 03:10 PM
Probably a combination of "Hzurr hates me" and overconfidence. It also helps that, with the character builder, they're a lot easier to make, so death doesn't scare as much.

Hey, every character of yours I've killed totally had it coming! Well...at least 2/3 I've killed had it coming:smalltongue:

Mark Hall
2011-03-22, 03:26 PM
Hey, every character of yours I've killed totally had it coming! Well...at least 2/3 I've killed had it coming:smalltongue:

For fun, here's the ones that have died in our longish 4e campaign (that ended when Hzurr decided he wanted to spend more time with his wife, who I still suspect of being Canadian and not really existing. Pansy.)

1) Starting wizard, Jorun Ranosh. Killed by the party when he betrayed them.
2) His replacement, Hecar de Orlig (now known as St. Hecar): sacrificed himself so the party could escape the duergar. Then reanimated to be killed by the party.
3) Mourn, Dwarven Warlord. Not dead! Left the party to follow other story threads.
4) Bjorn, Human Bard (MC: Yes)//Walking Zone of Sexual Harassment. First turned to stone, until we could coerce the shaman into kissing him. Then trapped in a corridor with 4-armed skeletons and brain-damaging walls.
5) Optimus Prime, Warforged Cleric (would've been a Runepriest if we had that book). Decided to walk to lost southern continent. Theoretically, still alive.
6) Begby, Half-orc Rogue//Soccer Hooligan. Died in first round of combat; went nova, attacked a large group of rogues. Before the rest of the party could react, he was gang-shanked into unconsciousness. Our Leader had decided that there had to be another way into the room, so he'd run around back to "trap them", and had to batter down the door that was firmly locked while I was tossed around like a Raider in a Fat Boy explosion.
7) R'van, Deva Avenger/Paladin. NOT DEAD! Campaign ended in drow city.

As you can see, it is clearly all Hzurr's fault. :smallbiggrin:

Eorran
2011-03-22, 04:37 PM
3 pages and no love for Gelato? Why spend hours combing cookbooks for obscure toppings and dubious flavour interpretations when you have something so good ready from the box? Also much easier to pick up for new eaters, but still customizable.



As a DM, I find it easier to find the "sweet spot" between cake-walk and curb-stomp with 4e, particularly at higher levels. I also find it easier to use monsters to their full capability - almost every high CR fight I'd run in 3.X would have me forgetting a spell-like ability, or deciding not to use it because it would smack down the whole group and no-one (but me) would have fun.

Gavinfoxx
2011-03-22, 11:23 PM
Frozen Custard > Ice Cream!

That is all! =D

Fox Box Socks
2011-03-22, 11:33 PM
I've got a soft spot for fruit flavored ice cream (yay sherbert!), but water ice (or italian ice for all those people that don't live in Philadelphia) > ice cream.

EDIT: had a picture about how this thread was epic and what not, but it turns out that it was NSFW, so removed.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-22, 11:39 PM
I just made some homebrewed ice cream. Vanilla. It is fantastic.

There's nothing quite like getting ice cream completely fresh.