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View Full Version : The Spellsage [3.5 Arcane Swordsage Fix WIP]



Fishy
2011-03-29, 01:37 AM
All spellcasters are familiar with somatic components- simple motions of the hand that help channel their spells into the world. However, some casters transcend this, and channel their spells through their whole body, unifying their magical and physical strength into one discipline.

One of the design goals for Tome of Battle was to bring melee characters up to the power level of spellcasters, but they're still playing a fundamentally different game. When the Wizard runs out of spells for the day, even if the Crusader is still ready to CLEAVE AND SMITE, the party has to take a nap. The Arcane Swordsage was put in a sidebar as a possible fix, but as written, was one of the most broken things ever. So, here's my attempt to bring spellcasting into the same realm, mechanics and power level as ToB, without entirely divorcing it from the rest of 3.5, with the help of some mechanics from 4E.

{table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells Known|Spells Readied
1|+0|+0|+2|+2|Path of the Sage, Spear of the Sage|6|4
2|+1|+0|+3|+3|Shield of the Sage|7|4
3|+2|+1|+3|+3||8|5
4|+3|+1|+4|+4||9|5
5|+3|+1|+4|+4||10|6
6|+4|+2|+5|+5|Improved Spear|11|6
7|+5|+2|+5|+5||12|6
8|+6|+2|+6|+6||13|7
9|+6|+3|+6|+6||14|7
10|+7|+3|+7|+7|Improved Spear|15|8
11|+8|+3|+7|+7||16|8
12|+9|+4|+8|+8||17|8
13|+10|+4|+8|+8||18|9
14|+10|+4|+9|+9||19|9
15|+11|+5|+9|+9|Improved Spear|20|10
16|+12|+5|+10|+10||21|10
17|+13|+5|+10|+10||22|10
18|+13|+6|+11|+11||23|11
19|+14|+6|+11|+11||24|11
20|+15|+6|+12|+12|Path Mastery|25|12[/table]
Class Skills: Balance, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge: Arcana, Martial Lore, Profession, Spellcraft, Tumble

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As a spellsage, you are proficient with all simple weapons, and light armor but not shields. You may initiate spells in light armor without incurring spell failure chance, as a bard, but shields and medium or heavy armor impedes you as an arcane caster.

Path of the Sage: All spellsages follow a specific magical discipline, known as a Path, which is both the source of their powers and the techniques to harness them. As a spellsage, you must decide at first level which Path you will follow.

-The Path of Death studies the forces that sustain life, take it away, and bring it back. A Sage of Death chooses spells from the Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror) spell list, and gains Heal and Knowledge: Religion as class skills.
-The Path of Guile studies the mind, and how it can be persuaded, deceived, enhanced, or overruled. A Sage of Guile chooses spells from the Beguiler (Player's Handbook 2) spell list, and gains Bluff, Hide, Knowledge: Local, and Move Silently as class skills.
-The Path of War studies the primal forces that compose the universe, and how to best make them blow stuff up. A Sage of War chooses spells from the Warmage (Complete Arcane) spell list, and gains Knowledge: The Planes, Listen, and Spot as class skills.
The problem with the Tier 1 characters is that they have a massive list of spells to work through, some of which are just broken, where ToB characters have a finite list that they pick from. So we need a list of thematically-linked Tier 3 spells, with the ridiculous stuff already weeded out- and someone else has done the work for us.

Warmages aren't really Tier 3- there are a number of fixes and better spell lists out there, that might be worth looking in to.

It also might be worth expanding these into three different classes, but I wanted to test out the mechanic first.
Sages of Guile have Time Stands Still, which they treat as a 9th level Transmutation spell, on their spell list in place of Time Stop.
This is a hack, and I apologize for it. But I couldn't find an elegant way to prevent a 17th level character from ending time.

Highest Spell Level Known: You begin play with the ability to learn and ready 1st-level spells, and gain the ability to master more complex spells as your initiator level increases.

{table]Spell Level|Required Initiator Level
1|1
2|3
3|5
4|7
5|9
6|11
7|13
8|15
9|17[/table]

Spells Known: Like a sorcerer, a spellsage only knows certain spells from his Path. You begins play knowing six spells, and learn additional spells as you gains in levels. These spells can only be chosen from your Path. At 4th level, and every even-numbered level thereafter, you can choose to learn a new spell in place of one you already know, losing the old spell in place of the new one. The new spell need not be the same level as the old spell, and can be of any level the spellsage could learn.

Spells Readied: A spellsage readies spells similarly to a swordsage readying maneuvers. You can ready four of the six spells you know at 1st level, and can ready more as you advance in level. You ready your spells by meditating and exercizing for 5 minutes, and they remain readied until you take the time to meditate again and change them. You may ready a spell with a metamagic feat applied to it, if the effective level of the spell is not higher than the highest spell level you may ready. Your initiator level is equal to your class level plus half of your levels in other classes, rounded down. Your Charisma modifier determines the save DCs of your spells, but does not grant you additional spells.
Standard boilerplate. The only interesting thing here is metamagic feats: I didn't want to make Shadow Magic's mistake, and create a parallel magic system that didn't integrate with anything that came before it.

Initiating Spells:
- Initiating a spell always has a somatic component, but is otherwise like a spell-like ability. You cannot initiate a spell with the Still Spell metamagic applied to it.

- Initiating a spell with a range of Personal or Touch does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
ToB characters don't draw AoOs when they do their thing, so neither do Spellsages. I considered removing AoOs entirely, but instead have copied from 4E.
- Initiating a spell takes the same amount of time as it would to cast it.

- You cannot ready or initiate a spell that has expensive material components, a cost in experience points, or a casting time of longer than one full round action. However, these spells are still on your class list for the purposes of spell-trigger and spell-completion items, such as wands and scrolls, and you may learn them if you wish: usually for the purposes of item-creation feats.
All ToB maneuvers are meant to be used in-combat, with the exception of the occasional stance. Utility spells are something else entirely: 3.5 tried to balance them out with long casting times and expensive material components, but kept the same casting mechanic. 4E removed them entirely and replaced them with Rituals, which is in effect what we're doing here.
- Your caster level for spells you initiate is equal to the minimum initiator level required to learn the spell: a 10th level spellsage deals the same amount of damage with a Magic Missile as a 1st level spellsage. For other purposes, such as feats and prestige classes, your caster level is equal to your initiator level.
ToB Maneuvers don't scale with level, Spellsage spells don't scale with level, but spellsages still get some of the cool things Wizards do.
- If you initiate a spell with a duration other than instantaneous, it instead has no maximum duration. However, you must 'sustain' it by concentrating on it once per round, as a purely mental swift action. If you end a turn without sustaining your spell, it ends immediately. If you initiate a spell with a duration of Concentration, you must spend both a standard action and a swift action to sustain it.
The problem with an infinitely-refreshable supply of spells is that you end up with an infinitely-refreshable stack of buffs. ToB fixed this by using Stances and Boosts, and the Arcane Swordsage sidebar invites us to go through every spell ever printed and decide if it's a Strike, Maneuver or Boost. Since that's frankly far too much work on a case-by-case basis, we're just going to steal 'Sustain: Minor' from 4E and call it a day.
- Once you initiate your spell, it is expended for the current encounter, and cannot be used again until you spend 5 minutes in meditation.

Spear of the Sage (Su): In addition to your spells, your Path provides an unsubtle but reliable way of harming your enemies. You are always considered armed, and threaten all squares within your reach. As an attack action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, you may make a touch attack against an enemy you threaten, or a ranged touch attack at an enemy within 60'. This attack deals 1d6 damage plus your initiator level, with additional effects based on your level and your Path.
Spellsages need something to do when they run out of spells for the encounter. ToB characters always have the option of swinging with their sword, 1st level Wizards traditionally have their crossbows (which is really lame), and Spellsages get this. This is almost-but-not-quite-strictly-better than a Warlock's Eldritch Blast, by design: I'm aiming for a power level strong enough that you don't feel bad when you use it, but not so strong that you're not using it all day every day.
The Spear of a Sage of Death deals negative energy damage, which heals undead as usual.
I like Dread Necromancers.
The Spear of a Sage of Guile deals nonlethal damage. If you are flanking the target, or they would be denied their Dexterity bonus to the attack, it deals double damage.
Sort-of-but-not-quite Sneak Attack, for the sneaky caster. No clause for 'immune to critical hits', because of the overlap between those monsters and 'immune to nonlethal damage'.
The Spear of a Sage of War deals Fire, Cold, Electricity or Acid damage, at your choice at the time of the attack.
I'm not sold on this: wanted to do something nice for the poor Warmages, but since nearly all of their spells are just blasts, it's hard not to step on their toes with an ability that blasts.

Treat your Spear of the Sage as a weapon-like spell for the purposes of Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, and the like, and a first-level spell with a caster level equal to your initiator level.
Play nice with the stuff that has come before. This is the same reason the spear is an attack action: You get an extra shot from Haste, your BAB matters, you can take Combat Reflexes and make AoOs, and you generally benefit from the same things that benefit your teammates.

At level 6, you may choose to inflict additional effects when you successfully hit an enemy with your Spear. If you are a Sage of Death, the target becomes sickened. If you are a Sage of Guile, the target becomes fatigued. If you are a Sage of War, the target becomes shaken. These effects last until the end of the encounter.

At level 10, and again at level 15, your Spear of the Sage improves further. In a really cool way, that I haven't written yet.
These are the levels when a full BAB character gets an extra attack: seemed like a good time to make sure the Spear is staying relevant, in a way more interesting that 'more damage'.

Shield of the Sage (Su): At level 2, your path grants you a defensive ability. A really cool one, that I haven't written yet.

Path Mastery (Su): At level 20, once per round, you may sustain a spell without it counting against your swift action for the turn.


So... Thoughts? The big obvious thing that I'm missing is what happens to Spellsages that take Prestige Classes. I don't want to make the Shadow Magic mistake and exclude too much, but I don't want to make the Wizard mistake and make PrCing mandatory. Also, cookies for anyone who finds something obviously broken that I've missed...

Ziegander
2011-03-29, 04:13 AM
Lots of great ideas in here to be sure and something I look forward to see completed.

The casting mechanics are similar to ones I've seen try to do Arcane Swordsages before, but with some unique and refreshing ideas thrown in.

Specifically, as far as the Improved Spear class features go, you probably should increase the damage dice by 1d6 each time. Also, auto sicken/fatigue/shaken at 6th level is actually really powerful. Keep in mind that Fatigued if applied twice becomes Exhausted (a powerful debuff), and Shaken applied to any existing Fear effect (including itself) can be devastating. How's this sound instead?

Improved Spear I (Su): At 6th level, a Spellsage deals 2d6 + initiator level damage with her Spear of the Sage and on a successful critical hit she inflicts a negative condition on her target depending on her choice of path. A Sage of Death causes her target to become Sickened for 5 rounds. A Sage of Guile causes her target to become Fatigued for 1 round. A Sage of War causes her target to become Shaken for 1 round.

Improved Spear II (Su): At 11th level, a Spellsage deals 3d6 + initiator level damage with her Spear of the Sage. Creatures she successfully damages with her spear suffer a negative condition depending on her choice of path. A Sage of Death causes her target to become Sickened for 1d4 rounds. A Sage of Guild causes her target to become Fatigued for 1 round. A Sage of War causes her target to become Shaken for 1 round.

Improved Spear III (Su): At 16th level, a Spellsage deals 4d6 + initiator level damage with her Spear of the Sage and on a successful critical hit she inflicts a grievously negative condition on her target depending on her choice of path. A Sage of Death causes her target to become Nauseated for 1d4 rounds. A Sage of Guile causes her target to become Exhausted for 1d4 rounds. A Sage of War causes her target to become Frightened for 1d4 rounds.

...something like that anyway. I gave the Sickened condition a much longer duration than the others, because the others can stack for more potent debuffs with potentially much longer durations

Shield of the Sage could be as simple as immunity to sickened/nauseated and negative energy for Death, immunity to fatigued/exhausted and glamors for Guile, and immunity to fear and compulsions for War. That would be pretty cool, of course you could go another direction and give Death Sages resistance to Cold, Guile Sages resistance to nonlethal damage, and War Sages resistance to all types of Energy, all equal to class level.

Ziegander
2011-04-06, 02:54 PM
Bumping someone else's work can be fun too!

Benly
2011-04-06, 03:26 PM
I'm not comfortable with the bit about being unable to ready spells with expensive material components, largely because the most important spell on the Dread Necromancer list has a variable-cost material component, which works very poorly with the "just make an item out of it" approach.

(Also, if you're looking for high-level bonuses for the Sage of Death's spear, might I recommend Fell Animate? :smallsmile: )

Elfstone
2011-04-06, 09:18 PM
I like it, and think that Zieg has the right idea about the improvments.

Ziegander
2011-04-06, 09:40 PM
(Also, if you're looking for high-level bonuses for the Sage of Death's spear, might I recommend Fell Animate? :smallsmile: )

This is actually a great idea.

Chambers
2011-06-14, 10:46 PM
Your caster level for spells you initiate is equal to the minimum initiator level required to learn the spell: a 10th level spellsage deals the same amount of damage with a Magic Missile as a 1st level spellsage. For other purposes, such as feats and prestige classes, your caster level is equal to your initiator level.

ToB Maneuvers don't scale with level, Spellsage spells don't scale with level, but spellsages still get some of the cool things Wizards do.

Some maneuvers do scale with level, such as Burning Blade, Crusader's Strike, and Diamond Mind Counters (increasing skill ranks).

wayfare
2011-06-14, 11:34 PM
Wow, nifty!

Quellian-dyrae
2011-06-15, 12:22 AM
This is a pretty cool idea, but I think it may be a bit too restrictive.

The no scaling rule seriously hurts warmage casting. The maintenance rule is crippling to beguiler casting and painful to dread necromancer up until it gets the actual save or dies, since as-written it requires sustaining your debuffs and battlefield control spells as well as your buffs.

And really, with the limited spells per encounter, I don't know that spending one on a buff, even if these spell lists had more buffs, would be that dangerous. You're basically giving up an active option to get a persistent benefit. It's a fair trade, but not, I think, an unbalanced one.

Kinda unsure about denying spell recovery, too. I'd probably say give them the swordsage recovery method - a full round action to cast again isn't that strong when you're on a per-encounter system anyway. Warmage, Beguiler, and Dread Necromancer can all get a significant advantage from being able to cast their spells over and over.

Really, I think what I'm getting from this is that this system has all the right safeguards in place, but the spell lists available are restrictive enough that they don't actually need the safeguards.