Project Heretica - not just a Paladin retooling

[T.G. Oskar]

Ladies and gentlemen, children of all ages! Outsiders and Eldritch Abominations are welcome too!

Well, dreaded April 1st is now long past, and this was one concept I promised for long (hence, why I couldn't post it yesterday), but here it is.

First, for those who guessed: YES, IT HAS TO DO WITH PALADINS. But not entirely with paladins, actually. Most explanation will be done on how the name emerged (it will be silly and you will unleash words of undiluted wrath upon me once you hear it), but it has evolved into a little thing on its own, because it managed to reveal a little thing I wasn't aware of in my own retoolings.

So, without further ado, I introduce...Project Heretica


1) Why "Project Heretica"? It sounds like a quirky name...

And...well, yes, it is quirky.

You see, most (if not all people; if not, you'll know here) of the people I know are aware that my favorite class...no, archetype in a fantasy setting is definitely the Paladin. In fact, whenever I play a game, usually the main character WILL resemble a Paladin in some way, unless the main character's progression is fixed. Whether it's a console game, an MMO (with some exceptions), or a tabletop game, the first archetype I seek is definitely Paladin.

And, of course, there are LOTS of perceptions about Paladinhood, but there are some core concepts. First, they are GOOD. No, not merely Lawful Good, not merely Altruistic, but Good to the point of ridiculousness. That is balanced with a specific concept; they are GOOD, but they are also GRITTY. It's not easy being the good guy, much less the hero in a place full of corruption, where your higher-ups DEMAND you to be the beacon of light in the sea of darkness, much less when your companions won't stop until they corrupt you. Sometimes, harsh decisions have to be made, but the Paladin will be one of the few, if not the only one, who will ponder on what's beyond.

Another is that they are warriors blessed. They are skilled in arms just as the swordmaster, or the huge guy wielding an axe, or the guy with flair and a thin needle in his arm, its handle covered by an impossibly nice-looking cup. However, because of their mission, they are also blessed with nice things. Blessed armor. Healing abilities. Ways to layeth the wrath of their gods upon the non-believers and the forces of darkest Evil.

Another thing is that they are called. You can try your best to become a Paladin, but unless you've heard that call, it's hard, if not impossible, to stir the gods to give you that power. You've probably been screened from your birth, and you'll gonna be pestered about it until the day you die, and probably the gods will be FURIOUS because you decided to be a simple farmer instead of leading the glorious battle of Good against Evil. Or...maybe not, but not everyone can answer the call.

And...well, they are meant to be tanks. In the defensive, surviving, sense of the word. Look at any game that has Paladins, and what you'll probably see is that they hit just as hard as the warrior wearing the same weapon would on a normal day (without the buffs that make that warrior hit harder), but when you take a hit, while the squishies would die, you just call it a flesh wound and then heal it up to non-existence. Huge explosions? Nah, you shrug it off and say "did it got hot in here"? Vile, poisonous wounds that could kill a man in seconds? "Aww, my clothes got stained... PREPARE TO FACE THE WRATH OF MY GOD!!" The Paladin is expected to be the first to enter, and the last to leave, IF he is to leave at all.

So, after all of this, why the name "Project Heretica"? Well, you see, when reading the Tier system for classes, I was quite surprised that the Paladin was well below the expected power curve, only useful if you were mounted on a pony with a drill for a weapon, shouting the finest praises to your deity in hopes you could land a crit; else, other people might just leave you and your fanaticism on the nearest church...if not a sacrificial altar in hopes of gaining favor with who knows which deity. It was a bit hard to deal with, but apparently, Paladins are not as awesome as they should be. And...well, considering just how many rewrites, upgrades, and rebalancings of Paladins you see (not as many as Monks, of course), D&D apparently doesn't have the best of Paladins.

So, as a dutiful Paladin fan, I decided to put the best of my abilities to place the Paladin on the pedestal it should be: right along the Grey Knights, the Diablo II Paladins...you know, the guys that dish holy justice and bite more that they can chew, swallow, digest and...erm, you get the idea. However, while there were less hassle with other classes, there's a fundamental problem with Paladins: if the class is supposed to be my favorite, why I am retooling it and not defending it until I am sorely beaten? That would be...heresy! Heresy of the worst sort!

Hence, "Project Heretica". Which isn't just about Paladins; as you'll see later on, it covers more than just those warriors of absolute Good...


2) Alright, I'm this close to ragequit reading this... Amuse me/prove this is worthy/REDEEM YOURSELF!!!

Sure, sure, coming...

You see, giving such a pretentious name for a Paladin rewrite is definitely a sign of either hubris or lack of taste. So, how could I redeem this? Making different alignment-based classes and call it a day? Yes, I did that, but that doesn't really sound like something you'd give a title of "Project". Retool Prestige Classes that have strong Paladin ties? That's a bit closer, but still not enough.

So...how can I really redeem it? If I were to tell you that you've already SEEN Project Heretica in action, would you believe me? I guess not, you're already thinking "hey, it's a Paladin remake; how can we've already seen it?"

Look no further: enter the Bez-Kismet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153696). Yes, that class; the retooling of the Hexblade. Can't believe your eyes? Look at the Paladin retool later on, and see just how similar they are. Look at the Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165522), at least how the spells are dealt with? Similar with Bez-Kismet? Well, it'll also hold some similarities with the classes in Project Heretica.

But...only similarities to classes? Is that it? Well, what if I tell you the Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126346), the Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127673), the Samurai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143018), the Healer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118) AND the Warmage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131346) also hold roots to Project Heretica? Impossible? Well, not that much.

You see, all of these classes have something in common, and will have something in common with other retools I've made. Notice, specifically, on how the class abilities are rigidly set, all in pretty close mathematical proportions (in case the abilities advance), the proliferation of bonus feats in some of them, how one class can adapt to the other with little effort. I've done mentions of something called the "chassis". In a car, the chassis is essentially its skeleton; it's the thing that holds the entire car together, so to speak. Well, if you notice carefully, you'll see the Monk, the Ninja and the Samurai all have a specific chassis; the Healer and the Warmage have another chassis, and the Bez-Kismet and the Paladin (and the other PrH classes) will have a similar chassis. When I realized that, I found that as the core of Project Heretica; explaining the very nature of how I do class retoolings, and specifically the concept of mechanical modularity (a term so fancy it requires a proper explanation to make it feasible, but in any case it refers to how I can take a skeleton, figure out which abilities are good to subtract from the original as-is, which to adapt to the chassis core abilities, and which to make new to upgrade the class) within classes.

Thus, while the biggest part of Project Heretica is the Paladin (and "friends") retoolings, there is ONE thing I decided to work with in order to expand the project to something other than a package of classes. This isn't really a breakthrough concept in class systems, but at least what I follow when I do retoolings, and something that could hold a strong discussion (and if it inspires other people to adapt to their own homebrews, that would be fantastic!). Being part showcasing and part discussion, I expect the thread to be larger than the others, and thus worthy of a "project" title.


--

Table of Contents

1) The Paladin (Wiki version here (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Paladin,_Project_Heretica_(3.5e_Class)))

1a) Paladin spell list, special mount and description of the Code.
2) The Blackguard
3) The Justiciar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10754768&postcount=32)
4) The Anarch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10807035&postcount=40)
5) Alternate class features for the Divine Champions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10807050&postcount=41)
6) Specializations within the faith: Prestige Classes

6a) The Pious Templar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11197450&postcount=77) (and domains (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11197459&postcount=78) from outside (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11197459&postcount=81) the Player's Handbook)

6b) The Knight Hospitaller (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11434238&postcount=96)

6c) The Gray Guard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11830658&postcount=135)

6d) The Hunter of the Dead (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12051478&postcount=140)

6e) The Knight of the Chalice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12382533&postcount=173)

Addendums
A) A discussion on class "chassis" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11091707&postcount=60)
B) Avenger Weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12600564&postcount=180) and Armor Suits of Virtue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12600622&postcount=181)
C) "The Pally needs help, but I'm scared of homebrew! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13657829&postcount=215)" - how to boost the Paladin without retooling the entire class.

[T.G. Oskar]

http://paladinproject.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/paladin_motivational_2.jpg
So epic, it doesn't need a quote...

MAKING A PALADIN (or, what has and hasn't changed from the Paladin)
ABILITIES:Probably the biggest change in the class is the reduction in MADness. Charisma is still an important ability for spells, Lay on Hands and other abilities. Strength is needed for offensive abilities (Smites, Divine Punishment/Deterrence), while Constitution is needed for the Paladin's defensive abilities (Auras).
RACES: Naturally, any class that favors Strength, Constitution or Charisma would be a plus, but unfortunately that isn't always the case. Humans, with their lack of penalties are a superb choice, specifically because of their choice of bonus feats. Aasimar are also strong choices, because of their innate Charisma bonus, and their natural ties to goodness. Dwarves and half-orcs may seem poor choices if only because their Charisma suffers, but both have specific benefits that counter the lack of such an important stat: Half-Orcs make phenomenal offensive Paladins while Dwarves make surprisingly good defensive Paladins.
ALIGNMENT: Lawful good or neutral good. The restriction on Paladins has been relaxed, but only slightly: most paladin abilities have strong ties to law, but the class itself is focused towards good.
STARTING GOLD: As PHB Paladin
STARTING AGE: As PHB Paladin

Class Skills
The paladin class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Similar to the original Paladin, but it gets Intimidate and Perform, while it misses Handle Animal. The former are because Paladins can give intimidating speeches and inspiring speeches, while the latter is due to the change to special mount. They get 4 skill points per level as I consider that to be the norm for classes with poor skill points and no Intelligence focus.

Hit Die: d12

THE PALADIN
LevelBase Attack BonusFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveSpecial01st2nd3rd4th
1st+1
+2
0
+2Aura of good, smite evil 1/encounter, merciful2
2nd+2
+3
0
+3Bonus feat, Diehard, protector's might2
3rd+3
+3
+1
+3Divine aura, divine courage30
4th+4
+4
+1
+4Standing before adversity (Intimidate checks), turn Undead30
5th+5
+4
+1
+4Smite evil 2/encounter, improved smite31
6th+6/+1
+5
+2
+5Bonus Feat, divine punishment31
[td]7th+7/+2
+5
+2
+5Lay on hands410
8th+8/+3
+6
+2
+6Mettle420
[9th+9/+4
+6
+3
+6Divine aura, standing before adversity (temporary hit points)421
10th+10/+5
+7
+3
+7Bonus Feat, smite evil 3/encounter421
[td]11th+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+7Divine grace5210
12th+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+8Divine deterrence5321
13th+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+8Improved mettle5321
14th+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+9Bonus feat,standing before adversity (damage reduction)53220
15th+15/+10/+5
+9
+5
+9Divine aura, smite evil 4/encounter, devastating smite53321
16th+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+10Divine resistance54321
17th+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10Unyielding resolve54332
18th+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11Bonus Feat, divine health54432
19th+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11Standing before adversity (last stand)54433
20th+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12Hero of legend, smite evil 5/encounter54433

Smile, guys. The Paladin now has the rightful amount of hit points it should always had. A nifty 12-sided hit dice. With a decent Constitution score, that means an average of 6.5 HP per level, which means you ARE tough to beat. Furthermore, you have excellent Fortitude AND Will scores; your defenses should be off the roof with that. Add Divine Grace later on and you'll be pretty much immune to things that require saving throws just because of how high these will be.

Still: 0-level spells? Does that progression implies full CL? Read on.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the paladin.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all kinds of armor (heavy, medium and light), and with all kinds of shields.

Notice any difference? Well, the main difference is that...well, Paladins can now wear tower shields. Yes, "all types of shields" include Tower Shields.

I'll be bolder. Recall those shields from Races of Stone, such as the shield gauntlet and extreme tower shield? Yep: add that to the list. I mean it. A paladin is no paladin without its shield, unless it uses its weapon as a shield, but if you're going with a shield, go with the most badass shield you can ever wield. Period.

Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladin’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level, just like the aura of a cleric of a good deity. Unlike the aura ability below, this aura is always active.

Legacy ability, but with a mild distinction to make it different from the Divine Auras

Merciful (Ex): When making a melee attack, a paladin may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead of lethal damage, without taking a penalty on attack rolls. She may not use this ability to deal lethal damage with weapons that deal non-lethal damage, however.

A flavor ability, mostly. Paladins are the good guys; if they want to, they can deal nonlethal damage to their enemies to show their mercy. Sometimes you want to merely capture them, knock them off, but they need to feel a bit of pain. Now, you can do it with any weapon, whether it's a spiked gauntlet or your massive fullblade.

Spells: A paladin casts divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric spell list plus a few spells added to the list below. A paladin can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time.

To learn or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin’s spell is 10 + twice the spell's level + the paladin’s Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score. When the above table indicates that the paladin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Charisma score for that spell level.

A paladin casts spells the same way a bard or sorcerer does, except her spells are divine in origin and thus she may cast them in any kind of armor. A paladin may learn and cast any spell on the cleric spell list (see Player’s Handbook), with the following restrictions: a paladin may not learn (or cast) a spell that has the chaotic, darkness or evil descriptor, nor she can learn any spell from the necromancy school or conjuration spells from the calling or summoning subschool (with a few exceptions). A paladin, however, may prepare and cast spells that are not available on the cleric spell list and that are unique to her. The spells that she may learn alongside those within the cleric spell list appear below.

Upon reaching 8th level, once per week and at every three class levels she gains, a paladin can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A paladin may swap only a single spell at any given moment, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the specified level.

Table: Paladin spells known
Level01st2nd3rd4th
1st2
2nd2
3rd311
4th32
5th32
6th33
7th4311
8th432
9th442
10th443
11th54321
12th5432
13th5543
14th554321
15th65432
16th65443
17th65543
18th66544
19th76554
20th76555
1 Provided the paladin has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level.

As noted above, a paladin need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

WHAT!? ARE YOU CRAZY!? SPONTANEOUS SPELLCASTING!?!?!?!??!

Yes, spontaneous spellcasting. Don't you want Charisma to be even more important? Well, here's one reason.

The easiest way to add power and flavor to Paladins is through spells. They get a unique bunch, and removing it removes all the good stuff they got through 3.x's run. However, it wasn't as good; therefore, spellcasting now got a huge boost by adding nearly all Cleric spells (two lists for the cost of one!). Furthermore, the saving throw for the spells is higher, to the extent that a 4th level spell is harder to resist than before.

Still no 6th level spells, tho.

Smite Evil (Su): Once per encounter as part of an attack action, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. The paladin adds her Charisma modifier to the attack roll, if successful, the paladin deals extra damage and causes a special effect. A paladin must choose her method of smiting evil; once she makes a choice, it is permanent. If the paladin makes a smite as part of a full attack, she may only use it once per round. A failed smite attempt does not get expended; it only gets expended if the attack hits (but see below).

Unless stated otherwise, a paladin deals an amount of extra damage equal to 5 + her paladin level. As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + half the paladin’s class level + the paladin’s Strength modifier. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, smite evil has no effect but the ability is not used for the day.

Blinding: the paladin’s smite manifests as a bright light. Evil creatures that have sensitivity to light or are vulnerable to any kind of light (such as drow, vampires and other creatures) take damage equal to twice the smite's damage. As well, if any creature (regardless of being light sensitive or not) fails a Will save, it is blinded for one round. A successful save causes the creature to be dazzled instead.

Resounding: the paladin’s smite blasts enemies away. Evil creatures that fail their Reflex save are knocked down and pushed back 5 feet per each four class levels of the paladin (flying creatures are checked instead). A successful save merely pushes back the creature.

Stunning: the paladin numbs the creature temporarily. If the creature fails a Fortitude save, it is treated as if stunned for 1 round.

At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per encounter. As well, she may choose another method of smiting; at higher levels, a paladin may choose to improve her smites instead.

Before continuing with Smite Evil, I have a bone to pick. It irks me, but I have to give credit to where its due.

THE PATHFINDER PALADIN'S SMITE EVIL IS NO FRICKIN' SMITE!!!!!

Ah, much relieved... Just in case: when I think of a Smite, I think of this:


http://www.wackywong.net/misc/c1/selfmade_magic/smite_of_god.jpg

If you've read the PF Paladin, that's not the smite you get: instead, you get something akin to a mark, or a brand. It's effective for what it does, but it's just not a smite.

So, what to do with this classic ability? Uses per encounter makes it much more...common, I'd say, but what you really want is that extra OOMPH! Thus, they now have rider effects, save-or-suck abilities which, in most of the occasions, make the target suck even if they succeed. Thus, if the smite lands, you'll be definitely sure to dent them.

UPDATE: As Seerow suggested (not his exact words), variety is the spice of life. Thus, a paladin can now choose to improve her smites or gain access to a new smite. Thus, at level 5, she can take the improved version of her smite or gain access to a new one; in simpler terms, a level 5 Paladin can use a "tier 1" Blinding Smite and a "tier 1" Stunning Smite or a "tier 2" Stunning Smite but no Blinding Smite.

Also, saving throws are based off Strength, not Charisma. You add your Charisma to attack rolls as usual, but if you want a good save DC, you need to use your brawn.

UPDATE the 2nd: Adding only one point of damage to that smite may not be so good, so I added 5 points for free. Now, that IS quite strong at 1st level, but you can only do it once, while other characters can get a more substantial bonus. At latter levels, the damage is not really surprising. But, at mid levels it's a definite boon.

UPDATE the 3rd: nerfing Stunning Smite a bit. Stun now applies for 1 round, and no daze on a failed saving throw. Also, undead remain immune. Blinding is now a Will save, Stunning is now a Fortitude save.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, and every four levels after that, a paladin gains a bonus feat in addition to those she obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. A paladin must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a paladin is considered to have a fighter level equal to her paladin level -4.

Yup, bonus feats. A Paladin that fell from grace was considered a "Fighter without bonus feats", and that shows one of the things that the class lacked: feat support. Martial characters need a lot of feats to be effective, but only the Fighter had that...in exchange for class abilities. Feats are meant to be options, not class features, but one can add bonus feats AS class features to expand the set of options of the character itself.

Of course, the range of feats a Paladin can choose has expanded. Not only can they choose amongst Fighter feats; they can choose amongst divine feats which they can power up pretty easily, or domain feats that open even more options. Of course, they are still limited to their usual restrictions (only two domain feats and they must be related; for example), but you get four more feats to play with.

UPDATE: Now as a 2nd level feature as well. This should allow you to work your build properly from early levels.

Diehard: At 2nd level, a paladin gains the Diehard feat as a bonus feat. She does not need to meet the prerequisites of this feat to acquire it.

The Diehard feat is a cool ability, but definitely one that isn't chosen. One reason is that it only extends your utility for about 10 extra HP, and the other is that it requires Endurance, which equals a feat tax. Thus, Diehard is gained right at the level in which it might be useful: 2nd level, meaning you get about 4-5 levels worth of utility from the feat before enemies take you out in one blow. Still, with a judicious use of AC, Damage Reduction and high HP, Diehard may retain utility. And, by the time you reach 17th level, the utility range of that ability extends a bit further. But, at the core, it represents a Paladin's determination; hence, they fight until their death, until they can't take one more hit.

Protector's Might (Ex): A 2nd level paladin may add her Charisma modifier to all damage rolls when wielding a shield. If she wields a tower shield, she may add the modifier to her attack rolls as well.

The final result of this ability is meant to work up Seerow's suggestion in a customizable way. The idea is that adding Charisma (arguably their best stat) to Strength for purposes of damage when wielding a shield allows the Paladin to deal somewhat competitive damage against a two-hander; however, two-handers still have their proper benefits when wielding such weapons, as they have 1-1/2 their Strength and double Power Attack. Charisma is added to attack rolls only with Tower Shields to counteract the attack roll penalty when wielding one; thus, the wielder of a one-handed weapon and a tower shield can deal reasonable damage even if it doesn't have all the modifiers around.

For example, with a Strength of 16 and a Charisma of 16, a Paladin would have as follows:
One hand and shield: Attack bonus +3, Damage +6
One hand and tower shield: Attack bonus +4 (includes -2 from Tower Shields), Damage +6
Two-hand: Attack bonus +3, Damage +4

Although the shield paladin will eventually deal more damage if the Strength and Charisma get higher, the two-hander will have Power Attack to counteract. Those that get Imp. Shield Bash will get some serious damage as well, adding a shield bonus with Str+Cha to damage, so the Paladin will do some decent damage nonetheless.

Divine Aura (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin channels the power of her faith through her body. This manifests as an aura that originally affects only the paladin, but that slowly increases in size as the paladin progresses.

Projecting an aura is a swift action, and the paladin can only project one aura at a time. An aura remains in effect until the paladin uses a free action to dismiss it or she activates another aura in its place. A paladin can have a divine aura active continually; thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of an encounter even before she takes her first turn.

A paladin that acquires this ability must choose from one of the auras presented below. Unless otherwise noted, the range of the aura is of 30 feet. As a paladin progresses in levels, she learns to manifest more auras and the size of her auras increase; at 9th level, she gains the ability to manifest one more aura from the list and her aura increases to 45 feet; at 15th level, a paladin gains the ability to manifest another aura and her area of effect increases to 60 feet. Allies within the area of effect of the aura must have line of effect to the paladin in order to be affected by it. The paladin’s aura is dismissed if she becomes unconscious or slain, but otherwise it remains in effect even if she is incapable of acting.

If the paladin wields a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher (but not shield special qualities that increases the shield's effective enhancement bonus; hence, a +1 shield of bashing would count as a +1 shield for purposes of this ability), she may modify the effect of these auras, adding a new effect or improving an existing one. To gain the benefit of this shield, the paladin must be wielding the shield (thus, the paladin doesn't gain the benefit of the improvement to auras if she uses an animated shield).

Unless stated otherwise, the bonus granted by the paladin’s aura is equal to her Constitution modifier.

Consecration: sacred bonus on turning checks and turning damage against undead, and on weapon damage rolls against undead and evil outsiders equal to the paladin's Constitution modifier. The effect also applies to effects that act as turning (but not divine feats), but against evil creatures only. If using a shield, add the shield's enhancement bonus as a sacred bonus to AC against attacks dealt by those creatures.

Courage: morale bonus on saving throws vs. fear effects, morale bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls if ally is under a fear effect. If using a shield, grant a morale bonus to Armor Class to all allies under a fear effect equal to the shield's enhancement bonus.

Devotion: morale bonus to AC and Reflex saves on all allies of the paladin except herself. Also reduces hit point damage of any kind dealt to allies on area (except backlash damage or damage dealt to the ally by itself) by an amount equal to twice the paladin’s Constitution modifier (or equal to her Constitution modifier in the case of an area spell). Damage ignored is instead taken by the paladin; if several allies take damage from the attack, the paladin takes all the damage. The bonus of this aura stacks with the shield other spell and similar effects. If using a shield, the paladin may ignore an amount of damage from this ability equal to twice her shield's enhancement bonus.

Retribution: whenever the paladin receives melee damage, she may return an amount of damage per round equal to the damage dealt or five times her Constitution modifier to the offending enemy, whichever is smaller. The damage returned per round is on a per-enemy basis. Damage is considered force damage for purposes of damage reduction and incorporeality. If using a shield, the maximum amount of damage reflected is instead equal to five times the paladin's Constitution modifier times the shield's enhancement bonus plus 1.

Vigor: whenever an ally casts a spell or uses an ability that heals hit point damage within the area, the amount of healing increases by an amount equal to the paladin's class level plus her Constitution modifier. This benefit does not apply to fast healing or regeneration. If using a shield, add twice the shield's enhancement bonus as a bonus to the amount of healing offered by the spell.

So, you thought from all you've seen from the Paladin, that it would be a mere Fighter/Cleric, no? Nope, it's actually closer to Fighter/Marshal/Cleric, to a point in which you couldn't have the benefit of all three with multiclassing.

Having said that, divine auras exist to expand the set of options for Paladins. While there are only five choices (of which you can take three), the combinations are definitely varied. Consecrate and Blinding leads to a sect of undead-hunting Paladins; equally, a Paladin that choses Retribution and Blinding might be a bit more focused on righteous wrath singled upon a single target, while Retribution and Resounding Smite might imply someone who unleashes holy fury upon a larger group.

Each aura is meant to be roughly similar to the others, so that all are considered good choices; still, if one aura seems far too strong than the others, please tell. Balancing is crucial, and I prefer having this ability be overpowered and then work it out equally than underpowered and having to measure carefully how to take it down.

UPDATE: the auras should now be slightly more balanced against each other; some will still be better than others, but now all should provide a good reason to be used. Also, all auras are now based off the Paladin's Constitution modifier instead.

Divine Courage (Ex): At 3rd level, whenever a paladin is subject to a fear effect, she draws from her reserves of courage and faces it. A shaken paladin negates the penalties and actually gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks against the source of fear; a frightened paladin furthermore ignores the compulsion to run away and ignores difficult terrain and other natural impediments when drawing near the enemy; a panicked paladin gains a +2 bonus to Armor Class and never cowers (thus, it may act even if there is no chance to escape, but may only target or act against the source of her fear). Penalties to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks still apply on the paladin for any creature of object that is not the source of fear (except for cowering). If the paladin manages to defeat or destroy the source of fear, she is healed from the condition.

Generally, at this level the Paladin gained immunity to fear. That's cool: a Paladin must be courageous. Still...there's one big problem with it. Namely, that fear isn't something bad; quite the contrary, it's a necessary reflex that all people must have. It also leads to something else: that is not true courage.

Now, I don't like making famous quotes, but this one really reflects what I believe courage is. I've heard it from many people, but I recall one of the US Presidents spoke about the matter (can't really recall if it was President Kennedy or President F.D. Roosevelt):

"Courage is mastery over fear, resistance to fear; not the absence of it"

The original Aura of Courage really didn't represent what this quote meant; in fact, it represents what it refutes. So, Paladins can feel fear, and despair, and even worry; they simply get to muster their courage and face it. If you want to be immune to fear, do it through other means: however, this allows the Paladin to use the weapon of the fearmonger against themselves. Of course, they still feel fear, and that reflects; however, they also show true courage...at least in the sense of mechanics.

Standing Before Adversity (Ex): At 4th level, a paladin's selfless determination allows her to fight where others would simply give up. Whenever she is bathed in her own blood trying to protect others, she gains a phenomenal resolve to remain fighting.

At 4th level, whenever the paladin reaches less than half of her maximum hit points, her show of resolve shakes even the most gruesome of enemies. She adds half her class level as a bonus to all Intimidate checks and gains damage reduction equal to her class level + 1 until her amount of hit points exceeds half the maximum amount. At 9th level, the paladin gains temporary hit points equal to her class level plus her Constitution modifier whenever her hit points are less than half her maximum, but only once per encounter, and only lasting until the end of the encounter. At 14th level, the paladin does not automatically fail saving throws when a natural 1 is rolled.

At 19th level, whenever the paladin suffers an effect that would make her die (such as an instant death effect, or losing too many hit points), she may ignore such effect once per encounter; in the case of losing too many hit points, she ignores this effect until she receives more damage, in which case she finally dies. This last ability does not require the paladin to be at less than half of her maximum hit point amount to activate.

[NEW]Apparently, for all the near-invincibility, the paladin wasn't gritty enough. Or maybe it was, but apparently the wings were too...I dunno. Well, political correctness be darned, I'll say "not-Paladin-ish". Divine Courage gave that idea of an unyielding soldier, and one of the pitched ideas was to work something based off Heroism.

So, how to change the wings for something with even more Paladin feel, that was similar but not exactly the same as Heroism, but still awesome? Well, thinking about the name gave me the idea. Standing before adversity means that you'll be standing no matter what comes after you; fire, arrows, the claws of a dragon, foul magic, whatnot. Most of that is covered with the rest of the abilities, but these are a few that are suspiciously missing. As an appetizer, you get better Intimidate checks ("I'd like to see you try something stronger, foul cur!"). Then, temporary hit points. Afterwards, damage reduction. And finally, the main course; the ability to survive one more attack. It's perfect for accidents (failed Fort saves, Balor death throes, etc.) but seeing such endurance makes you a bigger target. But, isn't that what the Paladin is meant for?

UPDATE: The DR now applies from 4th level and scales up. 14th level really kicks in on the "I'm invincible" thing, in exchange.

Turn Undead (Su): At 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of her class level would (see Turn or Rebuke Undead, PHB 159)

UPDATE: The Paladin now turns just as good as a cleric would, but has less uses. But, because Charisma is an important stat, it gets several uses anyways.

Improved Smite (Su): At 5th level, a paladin’s ability to smite improves. She may choose one of the smiting methods presented at 1st level, or improve her existing smiting method as presented below.
Blinding: a paladin now deals twice her smite damage to any undead creatures as well, and triples the damage if the creature is both undead and light sensitive. If the creature fails the save, it is permanently blinded; otherwise, it is blinded for 1 round. Creatures immune to blindness or that have a special vision mode that does not rely on sight (for example blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, but not scent) lose this ability for a number of rounds equal to half the paladin’s class level if they fail their Will save.

Resounding: a paladin’s smite blasts nearby evil creatures. If the smite is successful, any evil creature within 30 feet of the smitten creature must also make a Reflex save or take half the damage dealt by the paladin and be blown away instead of being knocked back (but still end up prone, unless the creature is flying). A successful save negates the smite damage, but does not negate being blown away (which implies receiving nonlethal damage).

Stunning: a paladin’s smite holds the opponent in place. On a failed save, the creature is paralyzed for 1 round. Undead creatures and constructs are treated as dazed for 1 round instead.

Remember I told that Paladins' smites would be better. Well, this is part of the initiative. Essentially, the smite starts to cover some of the weaknesses of the smites, by neglecting such immunities as blindsense or blindsight; alternatively, it becomes area-of-effect damage, or provides a much deadlier effect which cannot be resisted that easily. The reason why this appears at level five instead of level 10 is because by that moment you are already dealing with these kinds of things, plus level 10 already has a class ability. Still, if you consider the abilities far too powerful for that level, please say so and I'll consider it.

UPDATE: Nerfed the improved version of Stunning Smite to last 1 round.

Divine Punishment (Su): At 6th level whenever a paladin is using her divine aura, if an enemy creature makes a melee or ranged attack against an ally within the range of the aura, it takes damage equal to half the paladin’s class level plus her Strength modifier, and imposes a penalty to all further attacks done against all allies (except the paladin) equal to her Strength modifier until the beginning of the Paladin's next turn. The damage applies only once per round per enemy creature, as if the paladin was using an attack of opportunity (but does not consume the paladin’s attack of opportunity). This damage is of divine origin and cannot be diminished by damage reduction or energy resistance. If the enemy creature attacks only the paladin, the creature takes no damage nor penalty.

Credit to where it's due, once again. While I'm not really a fan of 4th Edition, this was a move I definitely had to include in my Paladin. Yes, in case you haven't already noticed: this is basically Divine Challenge but applied at all occasions.

This is part of one focus I've rarely seen in D&D, or at least applied badly: damage redirection. This form of tanking relies on shifting damage to yourself, or back to the enemy, so that you become a larger menace in that so as long as you are there, your allies won't suffer much damage. Be it by focusing their attacks on your allies so that you get hit, or redirecting their attacks on you so that you're the only one that gets hit, you start to goad their actions into a more favorable outcome, since stuff like healing and buffing then redirects to the most effective way (buffing allies so that you're a tastier target, healing you over the rest so that you support the party). At first, 7 or so HP might not seem like enough deterrent, but when you reach later levels, having pretty much 18 hp per round makes you a larger threat, more if you actually blend it with actual damage.

UPDATE: Divine Punishment now offers an attack roll debuff. That way, it'll make the Paladin a more palatable target.

Lay on Hands (Su): At 7th level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Once per encounter, the Paladin may heal an amount of damage equal to 5 plus her class level times her Charisma modifier (minimum of 1). She can choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Alternatively, she may use any or all of this ability to deal damage to undead creatures. Using this ability in this way requires a successful melee touch attack that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The pool of healing energy recharges at the beginning of each combat encounter, but may be spread outside of battle.

Legacy ability. Now, I've seen other places where Lay on Hands is buffed to insane levels, healing twice the amount of the original or adding some traits such as allowing you to heal some conditions by spending effects. So, why I didn't go with that, you say?

I find that, if I make Lay on Hands better than, say, Touch of Vitality, the latter ability will lose any utility. Personally, I find Touch of Vitality to be the purest form of Lay on Hands, and LoH itself as a watered-down version of it. And, oddly enough, I agree that it should remain...mostly similar. The idea is to boost LoH a bit, but not that it eclipses Touch of Vitality. In other words: much like Paladins get half-spellcasting, they also get half of Touch of Vitality: healing only HP, not conditions. Besides, there are already spells and items that provide the same benefits, so why replace what already works?

UPDATE: So yeah, I decided to make Lay on Hands a per encounter burst heal ability. This should make the Paladin pretty powerful when healing, but given that it requires quite a lot to optimize Lay on Hands to make it a swift action reach burst healing that heals just as much as a Heal spell without all the nifty benefits... That also means the Retooled Monk and the Retooled Healer will receive a revision.

Mettle (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, if a paladin makes a successful Will or Fortitude save that would normally reduce the save’s effect, she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells with a saving throw entry of “partial” or “half” are affected by this ability, and only for purposes of Will and/or Fortitude saves with these descriptors.

By now, you must be tired of seeing Mettle in my retoolings, but there's a peculiar reason why it's so popular. Basically, Mettle is sadly under-represented in the game, while Evasion is over-represented. Paladins have good Fort and Will saves, will have much better saves actually, AND there is a good deal of Fort partial and Will half spells, believe it or not. Thus, spells such as Disintegrate and Phantasmal Killer will definitely be resisted much more.

If that worries you so, consider they later get Imp. Mettle.

Divine Grace (Ex): At 11th level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Why this legacy ability, the crown jewel of Paladin dipping, appears so late in game? The response is very simple: if you want pretty much the best defense Charisma can offer, you simply can't dip it. You need to take it.

Also, Divine Grace is VERY powerful for a 3rd level ability. Divine Grace with Charisma 16-18 is the equivalent of a Cloak of Resistance +3 or +4, and the thing is that it stacks with those. You already get two good saving throws, so its immediate need is lessened. Divine Grace is less powerful at around 11th level, though still excellent Certainly, it's not very late, but it prevents people dipping for Charisma to saves unless they decide to do a serious dunking.

Divine Deterrence (Su): At 12th level whenever the paladin is using her divine aura, she may deactivate the effect and gain the benefit of this ability instead. If an enemy spellcaster within the area of the paladin's divine aura (if it were active) attempts to cast a spell that affects an ally within the area, it must make a caster level check against a DC equal to 10 plus the paladin's class level plus the paladin's Strength and Charisma modifiers or fail to cast the spell and take damage equal to half the paladin's class level plus the paladin's Strength modifier. This also applies to spell-like abilities, psionic powers, psi-like abilities, invocations and mysteries (except if the mysteries are cast as supernatural abilities). This ability does not affect supernatural abilities. If the spellcaster affects only the paladin, the spellcaster takes no damage and the spell is not interrupted.

UPDATE: While a nice ability, trying to take a spellcaster down is HARD. Trying to make it a Constitution check is difficult because you can get the skill pretty high enough. Trying to attack Will saves is equally bad because you can rack up saves pretty high enough. And...well, caster levels can be increased high enough as well.

But, when dealing with caster level, the increases are a bit more scarce. This makes aiming for caster level checks a bit more manageable, and makes Divine Deterrence a sort of buffed up spell resistance that punishes the offending spellcaster if it fails. That it uses both the paladin's Strength AND Charisma modifiers means the bar to aim at is pretty high (and if it forces the spellcaster to expend far more resources to keep up, then it's a winner). Because of the sheer amount of abilities it can interrupt (spells, SLA's, powers, PsiLA's, invocations and mysteries), without a real counteracting ability (it's not an AMF nor spell resistance), it makes shifting your aura to this a second nature, but mostly against some of the most dangerous enemies in the game.

Improved Mettle (Ex): At 13th level, a paladin’s mettle ability improves. She still takes no effect on a successful Will or Fortitude save that has the “partial” or “half” descriptor, but henceforth she takes only the partial effect or half the damage on a failed save.

And yes, the improved version of Mettle is here. Even if they fail a saving throw, the Paladin endures. And we still haven't finished with the Paladin's endurance.

Devastating Smite (Su): At 15th level, a paladin’s smite evil ability acquires a powerful set of new effects. The paladin may choose to gain a new method of smiting or improve existing smites to their next degree of power:
Blinding: the paladin‘s shining smite sears the bodies of the unclean. Any undead creature must succeed on a Will saving throw or be instantly destroyed. A successful save against the disruption effect still causes the undead creature to be affected by the damage and must make a save for the blinding effect as usual.

Resounding: the paladin’s smite damage cannot be evaded, and grows in potency. Creatures that fail their Reflex saves take the full original damage, and those who succeed on the save take half damage. A creature with Evasion still takes half damage if it succeeds on the saving throw, and a creature with Improved Evasion still takes half damage on a failed throw. Finally, all creatures within area that fail their saving throws become confused for a number of rounds equal to half the paladin’s class level.

Stunning: the paladin’s stunning ability ignores magical resistances and immunities. Creatures with immunity to paralysis or under the benefits of a freedom of movement effect still become paralyzed if they fail their saves. If they succeed on the save, they are stunned for 1 round.

While Improved Smite might be a tad powerful for 5th level, this set of improvements are definitely set for 15th level. Blinding basically makes every smite you make a level-scaling disrupting weapon effect, Resounding adds a confusion effect and unavoidable damage, and Stunning makes paralysis inevitable. THIS is what I feel a Smite must be: something so astounding and inescapable that when it happens, you know that angry god is out to get you, and its finger is the blade of the Paladin. These are definite save-or-suck effects, that make the target suck whether they are affected or not (unless, of course, they evade the smite, but then again that smite doesn't get consumed...).

UPDATE: Minor change to Stunning Smite, adding the suck effect. Also, switching Will for Blinding Smite

Divine Resistance (Su): At 16th level, a paladin gains the ability to further resist the spells of evil creatures. She gains spell resistance equal to 15 + the paladin’s class level, but only against spells with the evil descriptor or any spell cast by characters of evil alignment, clerics of evil deities, undead creatures (but not deathless), or evil outsiders.

Just when you thought the Paladin couldn't be more resilient, here comes spell resistance to ruin the day. This isn't your mother's spell resistance: it's 15 plus the paladin's class level, so that means you need to have some serious bonuses to caster level (not to mention pretty much forcing you to use Assay Spell Resistance to aim at them) or have the spell fail harmlessly. What's better, allies don't get to roll for spell resistance; only evildoers have to do that.

Now, count the ways Paladins are resilient: high AC, high saves, Improved Mettle, Diehard, insane HP and spell resistance. Just what else might the Paladin need?

Unyielding Resolve (Ex): At 17th level, a paladin becomes capable of fighting even when her forces fail her, beyond where others could stand. A paladin is never considered disabled or staggered, even if she has less than 0 hit points or her nonlethal damage exceeds her current hit point total.

Furthermore, she may continue to fight even if she has less than -10 hit points, but only to an amount of negative hit points equal to 10 plus half her character level plus her Constitution modifier. Instant death effects and attacks that destroy the body still affect the paladin if successful.

Ah, yes: extending the window of death. In case this isn't so clear: at 17th level, that means you die at -18...IF your Charisma modifier was 0. By now, that means you have a Charisma of 20-22, so that means you die at -23 or -24 HP. One more level, that's -24; two more points of Charisma on top of that, you get -25 as a threshold. And reaching that threshold is already troubling; imagine if it gets extended.

UPDATE: Make that Constitution instead. By the gods, I like that stat!

Divine Health (Ex): At 18th level, a paladin becomes attuned to positive energy. If a spell heals through means of positive energy (such as, for example, conjuration [healing] spells), and the paladin is fully healed of hit points, she may gain temporary hit points equal to the exceeding amount. She may benefit constantly from this ability, but only up to an amount of temporary hit points equal to her class level times her Constitution modifier. These temporary hit points last until dawn of the next day, in which they dissipate harmlessly. Furthermore, a paladin is immune to spells that deal damage with the [light] descriptor (such as searing light, sunbeam and sunburst), and she never needs to make a Fortitude saving throw if she remains in a major positive-dominant area.

Immunity to light spells? Hit points over the maximum amount? Really? REALLY!? (I tell this on my mind, and I can't help but hear this in the girly tone of a kobold worker on Crystal Cove.)

The original Divine Health only made you immune to diseases, magical or otherwise. While it shows the concept of health and divine purity, with a high Fortitude save this was less important. However, by the time you get to 18th level you're probably already traveling through the planes, this means you need a different kind of purity. By the moment you reach that level, that probably means you breathe and eat purity and light through your body, so why not go with affinity to positive energy?

Only one more...and that is...

Hero of Legend: At 20th level, a paladin becomes an inspiring hero, and her place in legend allows her to transcend her mortal condition. She is forevermore treated as a native outsider (unless she is already treated as one), gains the good subtype, and gains damage reduction X/epic and evil, where X is equal to half her class level (this damage reduction stacks with the one provided by the standing before adversity class feature).

The paladin is a paragon of good and law. Period. So it makes more than enough sense to make it a REAL paragon of good and law. Or at least, a paragon of good; a paladin is GOOD before being Lawful, after all. The damage reduction is a nifty gift; not so big, but it eventually stacks well.

So...quite the long exposition, right? There are a few things missing: see the next post for details.

[T.G. Oskar]

Paladin Spells
As mentioned before, a paladin may prepare and cast spells from the cleric’s spell list, with a few exceptions. However, a paladin’s spell list differs from that of a cleric by means of spells that a cleric cannot normally prepare. As well, a paladin may prepare spells from the cleric spell list with an effective spell level lower than the usual.

The following spell list is a compilation of all the spells that paladins may cast alongside the cleric spell list, as well as spells that are reduced from level. All of these spells are on the Player’s Handbook paladin spell list. For other sources than the Player’s Handbook, a paladin may cast spells from the cleric spell list and the paladin spell list. If a spell is in both lists, the paladin prepares the spell at the lowest level by which the spell may be cast; for example, if a spell is 3rd level on the cleric spell list but 2nd level in the paladin’s spell list, the paladin prepares the spell as a 2nd level spell. Restrictions on spells are also extended to these spell lists; a paladin may not cast a spell with the chaotic, darkness or evil descriptor, nor it can cast spells of the necromancy school, nor conjuration spells of the calling or summoning subschool unless they are part of the paladin’s spell list.

1st—aid-, bless weapon*, dispel magic-, lesser restoration-
2nd—air walk-, gentle repose**, heroism**, mount**, prayer-, speak with dead**
3rd— break enchantment-, discern lies, heal mount*, greater magic weapon-, good hope**, phantom steed**
4th—death ward, dispel chaos-, dispel evil-, greater dispel magic**, greater heroism **, holy smite**, holy sword*, mark of justice-, righteous might**
-: reduced from base cleric spell level
*: exclusive Paladin spell
**: added to Paladin spell list

The following spells are Cleric spells inaccessible to the Paladin’s spell list, in addition to the restrictions in schools and spells that the paladin already has. The Dungeon Master may decide which spells from other sourcebooks may not apply, and may use this list as an aid to determine which spells are inaccessible.

1st—bane, obscuring mist
2nd—augury, enthrall
3rd—glyph of warding, meld into stone, stone shape
4th—giant vermin, imbue with spell ability

When determining which spells to remove and which to apply from the cleric spell list, a DM is well advised to retain spells of the abjuration or transmutation schools, personal range spells that grant bonuses to the caster, and spells that resemble or behave as spells from the cleric spell list on the Player’s Handbook.

This is a much deeper explanation on Paladin spellcasting. Essentially, the Paladin gets access to the wealth of spells that Clerics get, exponentially increasing their spell potential although limiting them to, at most, 4th level spells. The DM has some control over which spells the Paladin gets, but that means they gain access to some attack spells, a few area of effect buffs, and buffs that the Paladin could take advantage of.

While dealing with Player's Handbook spells is easy, dealing with spells on other spellbooks can be a headache. Spell Compendium has quite a lot of those spells grouped up, but it's not THE absolute compendium of spells, because it doesn't recollect any spell AFTER its publication. Thus, it's important to consider what to do if you desire to provide even more spells to the Paladin.

For starters, consider 5th level Cleric spells. You can make them 4th level Paladin spells, but some might be a bit too powerful for that level. Some might not be fitting for the Paladin, either. If there's an abjuration spell that enhances the caster (say, Stalwart Pact, even if it's a touch spell), you might think about adding it to the 4th level Paladin spell list. However, a spell like, say, Earth Reaver isn't really a buffing spell, nor has a personal range; it is a transmutation spell, but it doesn't benefit you other than dealing damage, so it's not very fitting for a Paladin even if the Pally already has Holy Smite (but it doesn't has Flame Strike, now does it?). As a rule of thumb, 2nd level spells can be reduced as 1st level spells if not done already OR if the effect is better balanced for three levels before (for example, Ghost Touch Armor or Deific Vengeance, because by the time you reach level 7-8 it's already something that'll be common sight); 3rd level spells can fit as 2nd level spells, 4th level spells can fit as 3rd level spells, and 5th-6th level spells can fit as 4th level spells. If the spell has a save DC (but not for harmless spells), then its better to keep at the right level; if the spell provides a scaling benefit (such as Greater Magic Weapon, which increases in power as your CL increases), then it's better to keep in the right level. The best way to figure how that works is to see how the developers worked with the Bard spell list: some of the spells are at the right level, some are one level lower, but only VERY few are one level higher. Always rule for keeping the spell at the same level, but if you feel it would fit better one level lower, then let it fit ONE LEVEL LOWER. No less, no more (except for 6th level spells, of course).

In fact: if you think that at spell level 4th the spell would be good for Paladins but FORMIDABLE for Archivists, keep it at the level it is; sme for the rest. You want to strengthen Paladins, not Archivists...

UPDATE: Discussion on the wings issue caused me to remember which spells should get in the Paladin spell list. Thus, Air Walk is reduced in level (to counter for the lack of flying), Heroism and its higher level counterpart are also in, and Phantom Steed (for the mount lovers) is also in.

Paladin Spells and Mounts
Some paladin spells affect mounts, as indicated on the effect or description. When a spell refers to “special mount”, you treat any mount summoned by means of a mount (or similar) spell as your special mount for purposes of the spell’s effect. The Dungeon Master is free to determine any other kind of mount as a special mount, such as a mount that belongs to the paladin, an exotic mount, or a mount acquired by a feat or prestige class.

Oh, yeah...you did notice the Paladin doesn't has a special mount, right?

Why make steaks out of that sacred cow? For starters, the special mount is without a shadow of a doubt the most powerful of the Paladin's abilities, but it's only useful half of the times (more or less, depending on the height of the places you adventure at). Furthermore, having the mount forced you to invest in it, or else have a mount without a proper rider (meaning ranks in Ride, Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack AND probably gearing for Ubercharger). Then, most of your spells and abilities focused on keeping the mount alive, so in fact, you were playing a mount with a Paladin cohort. Really, no joke.

Personally, I used the mount only once. It was nice, but I never felt like it contributed to my character. Couldn't summon it inside of a dungeon, forced me to charge, and required me to think about how to use it properly. On latter plays with vanilla Paladins, I decided to neglect getting the mount, favoring stuff like Divine Spirit (an awesome ability I have to revise at any moment).

But, that meant something. Part of the spells the Paladin has require that innate connection with the special mount, because they don't work with other mounts. You get Call Mount, Heal Mount, the Complete Champion spells that combine to make your mount able to fly and stuff, and so on. To deal with this, I decided to place this little quirk: if the Paladin used the Mount spell, or brand yourself with a specific creature you use as a mount. That way, while the mount won't progress as before, you still gain the benefit of those spells and abilities that require a special mount. I mean, can you imagine if God decided to give Don Quixote his valiant steed, instead of him making the choice? And worse, if said steed could only be summoned for two hours until he gained more experience?

Thus, much like the game decided to dispatch the Paladin's Holy Avenger as a magic item, I decide to place the special mount as a rule that enhances all paladins, rather than as a class ability that eclipses all others. So, if you still favor uberchargers, just recall that you get the feats and the traits, but the mount is weaker now.

Multiclassing
Unlike other classes, a paladin may not multiclass freely. A paladin is allowed to take a prestige class without any restrictions (other than meeting the prerequisites for the base class) and still be allowed to take paladin levels if she so desires, but if she takes a level in a base class, she may not gain any more levels in the paladin class.

A paladin that multiclasses into a fighter, a martial adept, or a divine spellcaster gains special benefits, however. A paladin may multiclass freely into a fighter if it so desires; this is an exception to the aforementioned rule. Furthermore, she may treat her paladin level -4 as effective fighter levels for purposes of meeting prerequisites for fighter bonus feats. As well, she may treat her Paladin level (minus 4) as if they were levels in a single martial adept class (typically Crusader) to which she belongs to, but she faces her multiclass restriction as usual. If she multiclasses into a divine spellcaster, she may treat half her paladin levels as part of that specific divine spellcasting caster levels (but not actual class levels to, for example, gain higher level spells or spell slots), and may prepare spells exclusive to the Paladin spell list (but not reduced-level spells or spells that appear on other classes' spell lists); she faces her multiclass restriction as usual.

Wait, what!? Your retooled Monk doesn't have multiclassing issues, why does the Retooled Paladin has them!?

Before you "knick your hoisters" (did I say that right?), there's one thing that I decided to keep that makes them restrictive. Essentially: they cannot multiclass freely and return to their original state. As the blurb in the PHB states: following the paladin's path requires remaining on that path; once you leave it, you can never return back...or well, unless you get an Atonement or something.

Still: because of that, I decided to grant some benefits if you decided to multiclass eventually. IF you want to multiclass with a Fighter, you can add the levels in Paladin to the effective fighter level, and even return back to paladinhood (in honor of the mighty O-Chul, his Invincibility inspires this retooling!) While dipping won't generate much for a Paladin/divine spellcaster, if you decide to work this you get near-full CL AND an expanded spell list. Finally, if you multiclass into Crusader, for example, you'll get part of your Paladin class levels as initiator levels, so you won't be so weak).

Now, I must admit something: between the first draft of the Paladin and this version, some things changed. Please consider this blurb about multiclassing carefully, because while it's meant to provide Paladins that abandon their path towards another path with some measure of skill, it might not be appropriately balanced. Please provide your comments or ideas on how to provide minor, yet noticeable, benefits if you DO decide to allow that degree of multiclassing; that might even inspire a new set of multiclassing rules!

UPDATE: A bit of explanation regarding a change in the description above. For starters, she gains (for the moment; may change eventually) her class level -4 as effective Fighter levels for feats that require it (such as Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, in case you wish to take them). The point I need to explain is how Paladin levels stack with Crusader levels (or levels in one other martial adept class).

A Paladin 4/Crusader X would have an initiator level of 2+X for Crusader, and 2+1/2 X on other martial adept classes. Thus, a Paladin 4/Crusader 10 would have IL 12th for Crusader maneuvers and IL 7th for non-Crusader maneuvers.

A Paladin 7/Crusader X would have an initiator level of 5+X for Crusader, and 3+1/2 X on other martial adept classes. Thus, a Paladin 7/Crusader 13 would have IL 18th (and thus, access to 9th level maneuvers) for Crusader maneuvers and IL 10th for non-Crusader maneuvers. This is because the Paladin adds an effective IL of 5th (7-4 equals 3, the first four are treated as martial non-adept levels, so 3+2 equals 5). Thus, at most, a dip in Crusader could eventually net 9th level maneuvers if chosen carefully. Or Warblade levels, or Swordsage levels. Your choice, really, though I'd consider limiting it to Crusader levels because both classes have a strong thematic feel (so much, people consider replacing Paladins with Crusaders mechanically...)

Chivalry
A code of conduct and etiquette that most, if not all, paladins adhere to, the code of chivalry exists ever since trained men and women took the oath of knighthood and the investiture of faith that comprises paladinhood. The code of chivalry combines the proper behavior of nobility with the particular oaths that a paladin undertakes for her faith, such as the defense of the innocents; that said, not all nobles show impeccable behavior and an oath of faith is a daunting task for any paladin. A paladin is seen by the peasants as a hero, and the code of chivalry ascribes to such honorable means and ends, but the code is at times restrictive and denies a paladin possible courses of action that would result in following her call. A paladin’s call of benevolence, justice and honor sometimes becomes challenged by sagacious villains who, facing defeat, test her resolve and try to undermine her desire to do the right action by placing a moral quandary in which all actions end up failing her higher call. The true nature of the hero is tested in these challenges, but not everyone is built with the moral standing to do the right despite being faced with circumstances. While some may say that a paladin that refuses to follow a strict code are unfit to follow such a call, the forces of good do not seek fitness, but willingness to follow the path. Within that point of view, a paladin is not forced to follow a code if it sees it will undermine its willingness to follow the hard path of the warrior of light, but those who feel that the code of chivalry is a viable way of behaving may swear an oath to follow it and prove to the world the value of living a disciplined life.

Chivalry is best represented as a code to assist roleplaying, and not a means towards which a paladin player character must adhere exclusively. Thus, the player of a paladin character (even that whom only takes a single level in paladin) that does not decide to follow chivalry must not be forced to do so. The code of chivalry has a rare inclination towards law, and lawful characters will not feel particularly threatened with concepts such as discipline and honor. Neutral good characters, however, may easily follow chivalry and not fall clear of their stated goals, means and ends.

As such, following the code does not imply having any mechanical advantage or disadvantage. A Dungeon Master should not punish a paladin for violating the code if it has not decided to willingly follow it. However, if the player and the Dungeon Master agree, a paladin player character may gain specific and reasonable benefits from following the code, as well as penalties for not following the code. Both the Dungeon Master and the player MUST be willing to understand that such mechanical choice should not disrupt the game in a way that it becomes disruptive; if the player seeks to use the code merely for the mechanical benefits and not because it sees it as a roleplaying aid and reasonable quirk, this alternative is not meant for said player. As well, if the player disrupts the enjoyment of the rest of the gaming group, this makes gaining mechanical benefits from following chivalry equally undesirable. Finally, a player should remind the Dungeon Master to be fair if said mechanic is to be used, and a Dungeon Master should never punish a player for choosing the paladin class by forcing circumstances in which the paladin player character will undoubtedly violate the code.

Following are some of the precepts of chivalry, and how they can be interpreted in terms of roleplaying. Bear to note that these are mere guidelines, and that the player and the Dungeon Master should discuss on how this will apply:

Duties to the Country: this is the side of chivalry that deals with how the paladin should behave towards the world. A paladin, unlike a knight, is not tightly tied to a lord and to a country as they do to their god (if any) and her faith, or to the defense of Good. However, sometimes a paladin finds in a sovereign ruler, on a specific country, or on a theocratic nation a liege to follow, and thus it exercises some of the precepts held within these duties. Even if a paladin is tied to her country, it also pays to respect some of the precepts within these duties towards foreigners and towards foreign countries. Finally, the values of courage presented within the duties to country are universal, and admirable, to be common practice to a paladin.

“Respect legitimate authority; servant-hood of the knight to the lord”: the tenet of this duty is to respect the authority bestowed upon an individual by means of birth, law or decree. A king and all of his vassals, given that they are properly bestowed their authority by means of the law, are given authority to rule over their lands and have their own responsibilities and duties to their servants, just as how a paladin has a duty to her faith and to the cause of Good. If a king is just but unlawful (as in not properly crowned or bestowed authority, not that the ruler does not enforce authority), or the ruler is a regent for a king that will bring despair, a paladin should balance both sides of the situation; thus, a fair king without the proper authority should be aided by a Paladin to receive the proper authority, and a regent should bow when his or her time comes up, but the Paladin has a duty to watch that the new king shows respect for his servants. If the king is evil and has the proper authority, and refuses to change his way of ruling, a paladin‘s duty changes; in these occasions, perpetuating the rule of this king because of his “legitimacy” directly contrasts with her duty towards Good. A paladin that faces an unjust or malevolent king may oppose and even defy the king’s authority if she has exhausted all of her resources in attempting to change the king’s way of being. In such a way, a paladin shows willingness to forgive but unwillingness to accept evil. This applies whether it is a foreign king, a foreign king’s vassal, or even the king or a vassal of the king of the paladin’s own country; this also applies to magistrates, judges, and people who are bestowed authority on behalf of a legitimate authority and abuse of their power. A paladin must respect the authority bestowed upon the individual, but those with bestowed authority are not above and beyond responsibility; abuse of their power undermines their legitimacy.
“Protect the weak and the poor, aid those in need”: a paladin is a warrior above all, and a warrior blessed with a life of commodity more often than not. Some paladins have a background of poverty, or were abused by the powerful during their childhood. Now that the paladin is granted the power to defend righteousness, a paladin is well advised to show social responsibility and protect those who lack the providence that she was bestowed with. Whenever the poor is unfairly deprived of their few possessions, or the weak are unfairly punished because of their condition, a paladin must raise her sword and her shield, and challenge the perpetrators. At times, this may conflict with respecting legitimate authority (such as when the poor is being deprived of their possessions by tax collectors under authority of the local king); in this case, a paladin is advised to exert her best judgment over the situation. Other situations may also cause conflict; in the case of a weak criminal and an agent of law enforcement, the paladin may even refuse to provide aid, but remain vigilant in case of abuse. Providing chances for the paladin to protect the weak and the poor and then providing complicating situations in which a paladin may violate one of her duties is a challenge only few are capable of dealing, some even with surprising and admirable choices; however, a paladin player character should not be unfairly punished for making a choice in which two duties are in conflict, and the paladin makes a choice between one of her sides by use of her judgment by willingly violating a duty in the name of another. A paladin may be reprimanded or chastised by her actions through proper roleplaying, but even these cases should be minor, and through a way in which a Dungeon Master shows respect for the paladin’s judgment in a case where conflicting duties are present. A paladin should only be severely reprimanded if the choice of action is irrational (such as allowing the criminal to escape and slaying the law enforcement agent for no apparent reason), or when a duty may be satisfied regardless of the choice, and the paladin makes the choice that still violates another duty.
“Act with honor”: honor is a very big word regarding the way it is defined. A paladin’s honor is often best represented as how her actions reflect her way of being; it also reflects how a paladin adheres to an admirable, if often unattainable, way of life. Honor for paladins usually deals with how a paladin is merciful, courageous and fair. A merciful paladin is a generous paladin, so it is well understood that mercy and generosity go hand-to-hand; thus, it is a duty of Good primarily, and a duty for the country as a secondary path. Courage is often misinterpreted, and more often than not it is treated as the absence of fear, when in fact it is facing and conquering fear. A paladin, perhaps more than anyone else, is strong within courage because of her immunity to many kinds of fear; however, a paladin is not immune to cowardice. Even when a paladin does not feel fear in her heart, she may feel cowardice; a trait that goes beyond fear. More often than not, a paladin will not run from a battle if there is still duty to follow within it; being the rear guard becomes a duty to protect weakened soldiers and companions, for example. A paladin is not less courageous if she runs away, but a paladin is less courageous when she runs away from her duty. The only moment in which a paladin shows no courage, even when standing, is when a paladin acts recklessly; remaining in one spot to defeat a strong enemy and refusing to rout in order to defend a more important stronghold or to provide support to a retreat is a reckless act, and it undermines the paladin’s courage. A Dungeon Master should never place a paladin on a situation where a paladin automatically violates her duties because of a lack of knowledge, or because of dubious signs that the paladin surely won’t interpret, nor a paladin should be punished because it fell victim to deceit and abandoned her post in pursuit of a more important duty that ended being fictional. Fairness is a double-edged sword; at most, it means to follow the established standards of behavior or action depending on the circumstance (an effect of being proper). This does not mean a paladin may not take advantage of an edge regarding a situation, but it will imply that a paladin will not cheat. Cheating is also a large word; the exact circumstances in which a person cheats are precise at times and arbitrary at others. A good rule of thumb is that a paladin should never be punished because it was unaware of the cheating action. However, and as an important point, showing fairness implies being showed fairness. If a paladin is forbidden to cheat, and someone else cheats, a paladin should not be punished for being withheld from cheating. If the act of cheating is not properly reprimanded, then the authorities have determined that it is a proper action to follow, and thus the paladin is free of such bound. To be fair, however, does not mean to be stupid; a paladin may choose to fight with a severe handicap, and said break of a handicap would involve cheating, but a paladin that is unfairly handicapped and recognizes it should not be punished for “cheating” when unfairness was shown to her. The standard of fairness should remain equal in both sides, and once one has bypassed that standard, the other is not bound to remain in said standard by obligation. In battle, specifically, a paladin should never consider severely handicapping herself or handicapping others in the pursuit of handicapping herself for the purpose of fairness; thus, a paladin may take such tactical actions as feinting, flanking, disarming and even immobilizing the stronger opponents and may not be punished for unfairness. In fact, if retreating is a tactical choice and will do better to the battle than remaining there, a paladin should not be punished for an apparent lack of fairness and courage. However, how that applies as a fair action may vary.
“Sacrifice; willingness to provide one’s own life for the life of another, regardless of station”: sacrifice is perhaps the hardest of all tenets to follow. Sacrifice is an act that is more often than not a good act, and the exchange of one life for another is perhaps the greatest sacrifice of all. Sacrifice often binds with the tenet of courage, of fairness, and of mercy. A paladin is often requested to be the first to enter a battle and the last to leave, and must be willing to stay fighting even if it implies her own death. As well, a paladin should be willing to sacrifice her life for her country, for her faith and for her beliefs, if the only choice that will solve the situation is that. However, and this is mostly an advice for the Dungeon Master than for the player, is that every sacrifice must have value, and that sacrificing one’s own life has an invaluable exchange rate. Having a paladin die, when her life would have been far more useful, is undermining that sacrifice and unfairly punishing the character for no reasonable purposes. If a paladin finds a way to keep her life and solve the situation, a paladin should not be punished either; a willingness to sacrifice oneself is by no means a requirement to be stupid or senseless. Sacrifice is a final choice, and a circumstance that expects a just reward; if a paladin is forced to give up her life or else something evil yet mundane happens by the time she can face the forces of evil in their own home turf, that is simply being a jerk.

Duties to Good and faith: this is the side of chivalry that deals with how the paladin should behave towards her beliefs. A paladin, above anything else, is a warrior of good, and more often than not will seek the guidance of faith to fulfill that goal. Be it because of devotion, because the goals of the deity or faith are very similar to those of the paladin, or because of the tactical relevance of having strength in numbers, a paladin will often have good deals with good deities.

“Be faithful to one’s deity, to the faith one professes, but upon Good above all”: a paladin is, first and foremost, a paragon of good in a world threatened by malevolence. While a paladin may decide to neglect choosing a faith and follow her own path, a paladin usually follows a deity whose tenets are often akin to her own beliefs. Given that the chosen deity reflects a part of the paladin, it is imperative for her to follow the tenets of her faith and her deity to the letter. However, and this is something both the paladin and the deity recognize, the methods upon which the deity enforces his portfolio may go against the greater concept of Good. In that case, whenever the orders of a deity or a high priest deal with acts that may threaten the purity of the paladin, it is her decision to follow her orders without sacrificing her duty (as seen above, sacrifice is only important whenever there is something of value, but causing an event where a paladin must sacrifice her adherence to good to follow the tenets of her faith is something unacceptable as a DM), or oppose her orders. A paladin that questions her orders may be seen as subversive at times, especially when a deity is of a gray vision in terms of moral boundaries, but questioning one’s own faith whenever a tenet one holds dear is threatened is a greater act of faith. Whenever the paladin can prove herself, and the followers of the faith she professes, that the divine task of her deity does not have to conflict with her holy orders, a paladin’s apparent doubt turns into a testament of her unyielding faith. In fact, a deity only rarely should confront the paladin with an order that defies her beliefs, only when the deity’s vision truly exceeds that of the mortal’s resolve, or the deity wishes to test his or her followers.
“Protect the innocent”: a tenet above all tenets, even the life of a paladin is nothing when the innocent are threatened or suffer at the hands of others. Protecting the innocent is a task so difficult, a paladin usually falls behind occasionally: a paladin cannot save all innocents, thus there is more than one paladin and more than one faithful given the same task. Equally, at times, the paladin is confronted with a decision that will threaten the life of an innocent, or its purity, regardless of the decision. A paladin, above all, is a mortal follower who has devoted her life to a task so difficult only a few are chosen to do so, but the forces of good and the deities of good do not punish a paladin who fails on her task with the clear and unrelenting intention of following her task. The death of an innocent because of a paladin’s failure, when the paladin has saved the lives of countless innocents the same day, should not be a cause of major punishment: the paladin followed her mission, and circumstances caused her to fail. Otherwise, if deities and the forces of Good forced the paladin to be perfect, they wouldn’t need a paladin: no mortal is perfect, and certainly they would do far better work. The fact that deities and good outsiders NEED paladins prove that the task is not one to be taken lightly.
Yet, there is one moment when the paladin utterly fails to protect the innocent, and that is when she chooses her own well-being over the needs of an innocent; whenever she directly neglects to protect the innocent. Certainly, a paladin may doubt whether her mission may succeed, and those doubts directly confront her desire to protect the innocent; however, it is when the paladin thinks of herself above all innocent people, when she doesn’t even dare to try saving them, that she fails her mission. Protecting the innocent is such an important tenet, that it conforms one of the key precepts of paladinhood: to harm directly, or provide the means to indirectly harm an innocent without even attempting to protect them, is a path to evil and a despicable act.
“Be the champion of Good against Evil”: the very existence of a paladin is her endless battle against Evil, in more than one front. Vanquishing fiends, defeating evil armies, and ending the threat of unlife is as equally important as battling poverty, injustice or temptation. The concepts of the code of Chivalry hinge on this very own concept, at least the major tenets of it. A paladin that fights evil will always be aware of evil, and will always seek the right tool to face evil. But, as usual, a paladin will be tempted in more ways than one to abandon her holy crusade: be it the temptation of betraying her duties to gain political or otherworldly power, the temptation of rest against the endless war, or even the false promise of peace if the paladin would only abandon her battle. Paladins are mortals, imperfect creatures that have taken a monumental task, and it will always be expected to fail on the pursuit of her duty; that is normal, because it is from those failures that a paladin gains the experience to steel herself on her daily, endless battle against evil. If a paladin were not to be tempted by evil, she would be weak when she was ready to face it. Thus, a paladin must learn the most important part in fighting evil; the greatest evil is the one that lurks within, the one the paladin herself can do. To truly be the champion of Good, the paladin must confront herself and her urges to fall upon temptation; only then, does she earn the tools to vanquish the evil outside her. A paladin that knows her own urges and fights those that lead her towards evil is the mightiest of the champions of Good, one that eventually will become a paragon of the celestial skies herself.
“Be generous; give upon others what they need, but also what they deserve”: one of the ways Evil acts is when it deprives people of what they need to live, and then offers them in exchange of falling deeper into temptation. When a paladin gives freely to those in need, she breaks that cycle, and grants people the tools to break the cycle upon others. However, Evil is always aware of the generous nature of Good, and tricks good people into giving freely for nefarious means. Not all who are needy are truly deserving of help, just as not all those who are falsely needy are evil in their own regard. A paladin must also care to not give so much so as to be in need herself; while she may be willing and able to live a life of willing ascetism, it is well-recommended that she saves for her future, or when her skills falter due to the inevitable progress of age. Even a few coins saved for a meal are good enough, for one may never know when that money will be needed. Some save because people are in need everywhere, and giving generously on one side may eventually cause one to be deprived of gift on another. Money and food, of course, are not the only means to be generous; imparting knowledge and experience in the faith, in the art of war and the knowledge of tactics, or even sharing a talent with another are strong ways to be generous; the old adage is true when it says that “a man given food eats for a day; a man taught to gather food is never hungry” (though someone who learns how to grow crops, hunt wild beasts and draw from the bounty of the rivers and the seas is rewarded greater).
However, there is one thing requested in being generous; give people what they deserve. The poor need money, food and a reason to live; providing only the former two while neglecting the latter is a great fault. As well, giving to those who don’t need what the paladin can give is not exactly generosity (though the paladin won’t falter by the act). Finally, perhaps a person needs something with greater importance than what the paladin is offering; the poor need a reason to live, and the paladin’s hope can drive them greater than food or coin. Even in the war against evil, a paladin is generous; indeed, for a paladin delivers what evil needs the most, be it a strong hand and blessed cold steel, or the genuine chance of redemption. Being generous does not necessarily imply giving people only what they deserve, but giving people what they deserve strengthens the act of generosity as they will be granted that which they seek the most to escape their current condition. Besides, giving people what they deserve is the antidote to the trickery of evil.
“Obey the deity and the faith above the feudal lord; but obey Good before the deity, the faith and the lord”: a rare combination of a duty to the country and a duty to the faith, this tenet is the one that best exemplifies the duty of a paladin. A paladin, above all, is a champion of Good and justice. A deity may share enough traits with the paladin to earn her respect and thus her devotion, but the deity may not share all traits; a paladin may seek a different way to follow the narrow path of Good. Equally, the high priest of the faith, while a direct conduit to the deity’s blessing, is a mortal and thus a fallible creature, tempted such as the paladin is; perhaps what the high priest commands to the paladin is not what she desires, nor what the deity has ordered. And, while a paladin has a duty towards a country and its ruler, whenever the ruler strays from the narrow path of justice, it rests upon the paladin to right the wrong. However, and this is important: a paladin should never consider sacrificing Good over anything, when there is a clear decision of what is the right way to act. Not always will a paladin be aware of what is right and what is wrong, but the greatest failure of a paladin is to know the right way and abandon it for no particular reason.

Yes, the Paladin doesn't have to follow a Code of Conduct. Why I decided no to the Code but yes to the multiclassing restrictions is definitely beyond your thought, but one thing is for certain: the Paladin, above everything, is fallible. The idea behind the Code is to provide for a strong roleplaying tool, but it becomes a way to allow DMs to grieve over worthy Paladin players. Nothing can be worse than to have an aweosme hero...but the DM simply wants, glees, revels on seeing him fall. Being overtly evil definitely has its issues: the forces of Good won't provide their boons to someone who uses their powers for Evil, but if there is no other choice, the forces of Good are tolerant. If they were perfect, they'd be doing that for themselves, no? Instead of, you know, requesting for aid to mortals? They aren't capricious; they are simply aware that the paragon of Good must strive for exactly that purpose, and that they must be firm in that goal.

Hence, why this little part is mostly commentary instead of an actual rule. This is the Code of Chivalry, or at least part of it. This is what Knights in the Middle Ages were meant to follow; this is the very source of the code of conduct of each Paladin. It is strict, but not impossible; most of these goals are things that are not only laudable, but stuff that people can do regardless of creed, so as long as they are people inclined towards goodness and altruism. For a Paladin, this is definitely a high command, but evidently not one that is so restrictive that they are forced to live in fear their boon is removed. They act good not BECAUSE of their powers, but DESPITE their powers.

Now, if you're not interested in the Retooled Paladin, at least read this part. It's one of many ways in which you can see the code of conduct of the Paladin and apply it so that you're heroic instead of a rules-lawyer. Even if you really want that stringent code to apply in your game when someone plays a Paladin, consider that the Paladin is most heroic when it has its failures and strives despite them, than when it has no flaws. Perhaps in one moment you'll see that they fail, but they won't fail again. They will learn from that, and perhaps on another occasion, they'll do something that will surprise the DM and the players. But they have such a wonderful amount of character development because of that, it makes their mistake pretty much worthwhile. Thus, while the Retooled Paladin has no Code to restrict their abilities, do consider what a Paladin represents in your worlds, and what they have to do to strive towards that ideal.

So, comments, ideas? Do recall that this is but one of the many parts of the project; this project is not finished yet, but if you wish to establish discussion, you may do so as what helps the Paladin will definitely aid the rest of the classes, and the chassis itself. I'll post the Blackguard, the Justiciar and the Anarch later in the next week, probably with a spread of a few days between each other.

[T.G. Oskar]

To show a bit the idea behind chassis, I decided to make three different classes which are pretty much alignment-swapped versions of the Paladin, to show how the class can be modified while keeping similar traits. If you want, you can add the Blackguard abilities to the vanilla Paladin and just limit them by alignment, or if you want you can simply use the 2-alignment format presented in the Paladin to limit the class to specific alignments.


BLACKGUARD
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff312/Osky-kun/blackknight-169128.jpg
The Black Knight; artist unknown. Original can be seen here (http://www.wallpaper4me.com/wallpaper/The-Black-Knight/).

"Evil? What of it? Evil is not a bad thing, as you think. Look at nature: tempests, calamities, beasts out for your blood...is nature evil? No, nature does what it has to do. Cities are but an extension of that nature; cruel, callous, unforgiving. Evil is not delving into lower impulses. It is merely standing ahead of the curve. And in my case, I have gone above and beyond that curve. So you have two options: be a slave, or be the master. And I for sure don't intend to be the slave." - Alphons von Kreutzpfeld, human blackguard, speaking to survivors of his latest attack.

MAKING A BLACKGUARD
ABILITIES: Being a mirror image of the Paladin, the Blackguard uses Strength, Constitution and Charisma as his main stats. Charisma is just as important to the Blackguard as to the Paladin, while Strength is less necessary because the Blackguard has a focus towards dealing as much damage as possible through alternate means.
For those that think Wisdom should be a bit more important, see the Serenity/Intuition Alternate Class Feature, which replaces Charisma-based abilities with Wisdom, later in the thread.
RACES: Much like the Paladin, the Blackguard favors a race that works with Charisma or Strength. While the loss of Constitution and the level adjustment might seem a bit counter-intuitive, Drow make reasonably good Blackguards with a more lightly armored bent, and provide strong spell resistance that covers towards anything. Few other savage races might follow the path of the Blackguard unless they are half-fiends or tainted by evil, although strong races with a bent towards evil such as Hobgoblins might take the mantle.
ALIGNMENT: Any evil. This is a take on the chassis while using three alignments, unlike the Paladin which takes two. A Blackguard tends to be mostly lawful, but Chaotic Evil Blackguards serve as powerful leaders of armies, using their innate abilities to whip soldiers into service.
STARTING GOLD: As PHB Paladin
STARTING AGE: As PHB Paladin

Class Skills
The blackguard class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Roughly the same amount of skills as the Retooled Paladin, but Bluff replaces Diplomacy in this case. A Blackguard will be expected to lie to his heart's content, although bluffing is usually considered a chaotic trait. Between Bluff and Intimidate, there is little (if no) need for Diplomacy.

Hit Die: d12

THE BLACKGUARD
LevelBase Attack BonusFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveSpecial01st2nd3rd4th
1st+1
+2
0
+2Aura of evil, smite good 1/encounter2
2nd+2
+3
0
+3Bonus feat, Diehard, profane might2
3rd+3
+3
+1
+3Fiendish aura, instill fear30
4th+4
+4
+1
+4Rebuke undead, thrive within pain (Intimidate checks)30
5th+5
+4
+1
+4Smite good 2/encounter, improved smite31
6th+6/+1
+5
+2
+5Bonus Feat, necrotic punishment31
7th+7/+2
+5
+2
+5Vampiric touch410
8th+8/+3
+6
+2
+6Mettle420
9th+9/+4
+6
+3
+6Fiendish aura, thrive within pain (damage rolls)421
10th+10/+5
+7
+3
+7Bonus Feat, smite good 3/encounter421
11th+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+7Dark blessing5210
12th+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+8Fiendish absorption5321
13th+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+8Improved mettle5321
14th+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+9Bonus feat, thrive within pain (saving throw DCs)53220
15th+15/+10/+5
+9
+5
+9Fiendish aura, smite good 4/encounter, devastating smite53321
16th+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+10Profane resistance54321
17th+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10Undying54332
18th+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11Bonus Feat, undeath's blessing54432
19th+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11Thrive within pain (death throes)54433
20th+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12Villain of legend, smite good 5/encounter54433

Again, a mirror image of the Paladin, with most of the "good" stuff having an evil counterpart. A few changes, though, exist: Blackguards don't heal themselves or deal static damage, but instead deal a form of dynamic damage with their touch. Some of the latter abilities also have a change.

However, the focus is meant to be different. The Paladin and the Blackguard are both leaders, but while the Paladin is a protector and a team player, the Blackguard is slightly more individualistic, a solo warrior. It can definitely play in a party, but it will seek to always be number one.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the blackguard.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Blackguards are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all kinds of armor (heavy, medium and light), and with all kinds of shields.

There is little difference in this area, though blackguards could use some sort of aid. I'm thinking about granting them proficiency in an exotic weapon, since they might make better use of that trait. Besides, they lack the Paladin's Merciful ability, so...

Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a blackguard’s aura of evil (see the detect evil spell) is equal to his blackguard level, just like the aura of a cleric of an evil deity. Unlike the aura ability below, this aura is always active.

No change. Except that instead of dazzling or dazing evil creatures, the Blackguard has an aura that makes heroes shudder.

Spells: A blackguard casts divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric spell list plus a few spells added to the list below. A blackguard can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time.
To learn or cast a spell, a blackguard must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a blackguard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the blackguard’s Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a blackguard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Blackguard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When Table: The Blackguard indicates that the blackguard gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. The blackguard does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers as a cleric does.
A blackguard casts spells the same way a bard or sorcerer does, except his spells are divine in origin and thus he may cast them in any kind of armor. A blackguard may learn (and cast) any spell on the cleric spell list (see Player’s Handbook), with the following restrictions: a blackguard may not learn or cast a spell that has the good or light descriptor, nor he can cast spells that are opposed to his ethical alignment; lawful evil blackguards may not cast chaotic spells, and chaotic evil blackguards may not cast lawful spells. A blackguard, however, may learn and cast spells that are not available on the cleric spell list and that are unique to him. The spells that he may cast alongside those within the cleric spell list appear below.
Upon reaching 8th level, once per week and at every three class levels he gains, a blackguard can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A blackguard may swap only a single spell at any given moment, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the specified level.

Table: Blackguard spells known
Level01st2nd3rd4th
1st2
2nd2
3rd311
4th32
5th32
6th33
7th4311
8th432
9th442
10th443
11th54321
12th5432
13th5543
14th554321
15th65432
16th65443
17th65543
18th66544
19th76554
20th76555
1 Provided the blackguard has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level.

As noted above, a blackguard need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Using the same format as the Paladin and the Bez-Kismet, except that they get all the evil spells. In fact, they get quite a lot of good spells out of the mix, if only because they get more spells than the Paladin does. They get Cure Wounds and Inflict Wounds spells, for example.

The format also explains how could a Paladin expand their class list a bit, in case Chaotic Good Paladins come into existence; out with Law spells, add all Chaotic spells. Really, not that hard to work with.

Smite Good (Su): A blackguard gains the ability to smite creatures with the good alignment. Treat as if the smite evil ability of the paladin, except the blackguard affects only good creatures and must choose from the following effects:
Terrifying: the blackguard’s smite instills fear upon the creature. A creature that fails its Will save becomes panicked for a number of rounds equal to half the blackguard's class level; a successful save merely causes the creature to become shaken. If the creature is already shaken or frightened, the fear state worsens by one step (shaken creatures become frightened, frightened creatures become panicked) and the extra damage of the smite worsens (1.5 times the blackguard’s level if frightened, twice the blackguard’s level if panicked).
Vicious: the blackguard deals brutal damage without regard to his own safety. The smite deals twice the amount of damage; however, the blackguard takes damage equal to his own level in exchange.
Weakening: the blackguard’s smite weakens the vitality of creatures. Creatures struck by the smite must make a Fortitude save or take one point of Strength and Constitution damage (but take no hit point damage from the smite), otherwise, it takes negative energy damage equal to the blackguard’s class level. Regardless if the creature succeeds on the saving throw, the creature is left fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the blackguard’s class level afterwards. Fatigued creatures that are struck by this smite are exhausted instead.

While so far most of the stuff is similar to the Retooled Paladin, here's the first wild divergence. Most of the Paladin's debuffs are pretty soft in nature; the debuffs of the Blackguard are severe. Increased damage with a smite might not seem much but later on it becomes even better; fear is always a strong debuffer and having creatures panic with a failed Will save is just strong. Weakening, however, takes the cake; it requires a Fortitude save, but it deals both hit point damage, ability damage, AND fatigue or exhaustion. Each smite gets better as the levels progress, much like with Paladins.

UPDATE: The Blackguard's smites are also based on Strength now, not Charisma. Also: you can choose higher level smites or gain another of these smites at higher levels.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, and every four levels after that, a blackguard gains a bonus feat in addition to those he obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. A blackguard must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a blackguard is considered to have a fighter level equal to his blackguard level -4.

The blackguard could use more feats, so here they are. For the military expert or cultist enforcer or even paragon of the evil gods. Same as Paladin, they can get divine feats or domain feats, of course except for the Good Devotion feat.

Diehard: At 2nd level, a blackguard gains the Diehard feat as a bonus feat. He does not need to meet the prerequisites of this feat to acquire it.

Same as Paladin. The harder it is to kill the Blackguard, the better.

Profane Might (Ex): A 2nd level blackguard may add his Charisma modifier to all damage rolls when wielding a shield. If he wields a tower shield, he may add the modifier to her attack rolls as well.

Same as Paladin, in case the blackguard wants to properly use a shield. Still, the Blackguard gets a better benefit from being an offender, so...

Instill Fear (Ex): At 2nd level, a blackguard that becomes struck with fear may reflect this effect towards another creature. The blackguard is still suffering from the fear effect, but he feigns courage as long as someone else fears him. A blackguard that suffers a fear effect may use the Intimidate skill on an opponent as a immediate action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, regardless if he made the saving throw or not. Treat this as if using the demoralize effect of Intimidate, except that if the creature fails its level check, the creature suffers the fear effect as if it had failed the save (no saving throw allowed) and the blackguard suppresses the penalties provided by the fear effect while it remains in course. If the creature suffering the fear effect negates this condition (such as by receiving the effect of a remove fear spell), the blackguard immediately resumes his fear condition so as long as the effect is still active. If the blackguard receives the benefit of a spell or ability that negates this condition, the creature remains under the fear effect and the backlash effect is negated.

I feel particularly proud of this ability. Aura of Despair being no more, and Aura of Courage turned into a divine aura, I needed something to counter the Paladin's divine courage. I wanted something that was the antithesis of courage, and that is obviously fear. However, I wanted the Blackguard to show a false idea of courage, where he was evidently immune to fear but at the same time debuffing. And, oddly enough, making a counter out of fear was just icing on the cake.

The idea is, if an enemy manages to make you scare your pants off (by means of Intimidate, frightful presence or fear spells/abilities/feats), the Blackguard can use it as a weapon. A Blackguard knows fear, and knows how dangerous can fear is; thus, he acts like the mother of all bullies by forcing a creature to take that fear. While the other guy is scared, he's not affected by that fear; however, if the other guy fights that fear, then things go real wrong. Particularly this clashes with the Paladin's divine courage, as perhaps the Blackguard may fight with a group and order his minions to attack the Paladin that's scared with fear, hoping that the Paladin doesn't overcome his fear and screws him up. It makes for a very tasty tension. Making it Intimidate-based is much nicer, because it gives a Blackguard a reason why to have Intimidate in full force.

Fiendish Aura (Su): A blackguard channels the power of his fiendish patrons through his body. Treat as the paladin’s divine aura ability, except that the auras are replaced as follows (and thus, affect all enemies instead of the blackguard and his allies, unless otherwise noted) and use the blackguard's Strength modifier instead.
Covetous: reduces healing in area by an amount equal to Strength modifier, and be healed of damage equal to amount stolen. Stolen healing energy applies to blackguard only. Fast healing and/or regenerate are not reduced. When wielding a two-handed weapon, reduce healing in area (and heal damage) by an amount equal to 1-1/2 times the Strength modifier plus the weapon's enhancement bonus.
Cowardice: morale penalty on saving throws vs. fear; morale penalty on attack rolls and damage rolls if under a fear effect. If wielding a two-handed weapon, impose a penalty on Armor Class equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus.
Cruelty: deals damage equal to the blackguard’s Strength modifier every round to all creatures (allies or enemies, except the blackguard) within area. If allies take damage from this ability, they gain a morale bonus on weapon damage rolls equal to the blackguard's Strength modifier. When wielding a two-handed weapon, the damage dealt is instead 1-1/2 times the Strength modifier plus the weapon's enhancement bonus.
Desecration: profane bonus on rebuking checks against undead and affected HD equal to the blackguard’s Strength modifier. The effect also applies to effects that act as turning (but not divine feats), but against good-aligned creatures only. Profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls and saves against deathless and good outsiders equal to the blackguard's Strength modifier. If using a two-handed weapon, the damage bonus is instead equal to 1-1/2 times the blackguard's Strength modifier plus the weapon's enhancement bonus.
Vengeance: returns damage from melee attack to enemy equal to damage or twice the Str modifier (whichever is lower); blackguard or ally is healed an amount equal to Strength modifier. When wielding a two-handed weapon, damage returned is equal to 1-1/2 times the Strength modifier plus the weapon's enhancement bonus.

This is what I mean when I speak of the Blackguard being an individualistic ally but still a decent team player. Cowardice is the antithesis of Courage, with applying further morale penalties to attack rolls, penalties to damage rolls, and saves against fear; it also works as a successor to Aura of Despair, whose effect was strong but not very potent. Covetous is a nice trick, which has the Blackguard stealing HP from healers, including stuff like Crusader's healing strikes or similar abilities, although not healing over time abilities. Cruelty is the rough equivalent of having Acid Arrow hitting you every round, and that damage accumulates real fast (specifically if you're dealing your Charisma modifier in damage EACH ROUND). Desecration is the antithesis of Consecration, but it also affects abilities based on rebuke undead against good creatures (such as, I dunno, say, divine feats that require increased turning checks...well, I don't seem to recall any, but i know they're there! Like...Blackwater Invocation, yeah!). Vengeance takes the cake once again, because it's Retribution's big brother; not only does it returns part of the damage, it also heals you or an ally (hey, that's real nice!) in exchange. So you can take damage and heal a minion, or reduce part of the damage yourself.

UPDATE: Since the Fiendish auras are offensive in origin, they use the Strength modifier. This makes them different from Paladins who use Constitution. Applied bonus based on two-handed weapons.

Rebuke Undead (Su): At 4th level, a blackguard gains the ability to rebuke undead. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. He rebukes undead as a cleric of three levels lower would (see Turn or Rebuke Undead, PHB 159)

Yup, rebuke. In case they wanna manipulate undead, along with Aura of Desecrate and whatnot. Or power divine feats, for example.

Thrive within Pain (Ex/Su): At 4th level, a blackguard revels in the glory of battle. Some may delve into the macabre pleasure of pain, others may whip themselves into fury at the fear of death, and others simply enjoy the feeling of having opponents drive them to their limits. Whatever is the cause, a blackguard close to death is a fearsome opponent.

At 4th level, if a blackguard is taken to less than half of his maximum Hit Points, it gains a bonus on Intimidate checks equal to half his class level. At 9th level, he adds his Charisma to his damage rolls while within the same condition. At 14th level, he adds his Charisma to the saving throw DCs of his smite abilities, and his Strength modifier to the saving throw DCs of all blackguard spells (but not spells from another class) or racial spell-like abilities while under half his maximum hit points.

At 19th level, if a blackguard is slain, he explodes in a maelstrom of evil energy. All good creatures within the range of the blackguard's fiendish aura must make a Reflex saving throw or take an amount of damage equal to the blackguard's class level plus the blackguard's Strength modifier; if the blackguard chose the vicious smite good class feature, the damage is instead equal to the damage dealt by this ability. The saving throw for this ability is equal to 10 + half the blackguard's class level + the blackguard's Strength and Charisma modifiers (plus any abilities that modify smite; the Charisma bonus granted by this ability is already included). A successful save reduces the damage to half. Neutral creatures gain a +5 bonus on their saves against this ability but are otherwise affected as if good creatures. Upon doing so, the blackguard's body is turned to dust, and requires a true resurrection or miracle spell to return to life.

[NEW]Again, exchanging the blackguard's fearsome wings for something equally fearsome. Bloodying the blackguard seems like a horribly bad idea right about now. Of course, this is stand within adversity's evil twin, reinforcing the blackguard's offensive abilities when under low hit points.

The main changes are the bonus to damage rolls (with that huge amount of Charisma, you'll deal quite a bit of damage with it), the increased saves (so you can save your spells until later on, and all of a sudden drop a DC 25 spell when nobody expects it), and the death throes.

Yes, even in death, the blackguard is a bastard. Let's face it: what's the most dangerous thing about killing a balor? Well...actually killing it, because everything within 100 ft. gets vaporized. This is less dangerous, but makes vicious such a nice alternative because that's basically close to 100 points of damage. Reflex is the only way to get saved, or being evil, and of couse, when facing a blackguard, having evil minions who can finish the job for you is pretty easy to get. If not, well...just create a few!

Improved Smite (Su): At 5th level, a blackguard’s ability to smite improves. A blackguard may choose another method of smiting from those presented at 1st level or improve his existing smite.
Terrifying: the blackguard’s fear effect may not be resisted. A creature’s bonus to fear effects are negated for purposes of this smites secondary effect. Creatures immune to fear may be affected, but gain a bonus to fear saves equal to half their Hit Dice; this bonus is an exception to the negation ability of the smite.
Vicious: the blackguard’s damage extends to other creatures. Any creature within 30 feet of the stricken ally (whether it is an ally or an enemy) must make a Reflex save or take damage as if it were stricken by the smite. The blackguard still takes damage equal to his blackguard class level.
Weakening: the blackguard’s smite damage becomes irresistible, and the secondary effects worsen. A creature that fails his Fortitude save takes 1d3 points of Strength and Constitution damage, and immunity to ability damage does not reduce this damage. Regardless if the creature succeeds on the saving throw, the creature is exhausted.

Much like the Paladin gains gains a boost to their smites, the Blackguard also gains a benefit to their smites. Terrifying enables even creatures immune to fear (!!) to be affected by a fear effect; however, the ability needs more explanation. For example; assume the Paladin has Aura of Courage active, and thus provides all allies with a bonus against fear saves. Or the Bard is singing, inspiring courage with Song of the Heart, Words of Creation, Inspirational Boost and a base +2 to saves. When the Blackguard smites, that bonus against fear effects is gone. They are only protected by their Will save, and if they fail, they're panicked. Now, assume you're trying to fight a baelnorn (a good lich; unless you wanna fight a deathless?) and you need to paralyze him with fear; the baelnorn's undead traits make him immune to fear, but the blackguard's fear is easily understood; the baelnorn will have a solid resistance, but if he fails his Will save (and there's always a 5% that he'll fail), he'll be panicked. Meaning his spells, his traits and whatnot are halted, period. Of course, the stronger they are the higher their save; however, if the Blackguard stacks penalties to Will saves, he may make the bravest creature spoil their pants in fear. Except maybe Paladins; they don't get immunities, but they overcome that fear. See how courage really IS mastery of fear, not the absence of it?

Vicious becomes even better; it becomes an area damage, where all enemies take damage equal to your smite damage (which means twice your level; higher if critical!). Also, it makes it the Reflex save smite, in case you didn't notice. Weakening is even MORE powerful, because bypassing immunity to ability damage AND becoming exhausted definitely puts a dent on ANY character. If it's good. Which...essentially means that unless you can convert your smite into good (and there ARE ways!), you'll be looking for other ways to overcome your enemy. Still; if you're fighting a good creature, it IS screwed.

Bonus Feat: At 6th level, and every four levels after that, a blackguard gains a bonus feat in addition to those he obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. A blackguard must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a blackguard is considered to have a fighter level equal to his blackguard level -4.

The blackguard could use more feats, so here they are. For the military expert or cultist enforcer or even paragon of the evil gods. Same as Paladin, they can get divine feats or domain feats, of course except for the Good Devotion feat.

Necrotic Punishment (Su): At 6th level whenever a blackguard is using his fiendish aura, if an enemy creature makes a melee or ranged attack against an ally within the range of the aura, it takes damage equal to half the blackguard’s class level. This damage applies only once per round per enemy creature, as if the blackguard was using an attack of opportunity (but does not consume the blackguard’s attack of opportunity; abilities such as Combat Reflexes do not increase the number of uses per round). This damage is negative energy damage; thus, it heals undead. If the enemy creature attacks only the blackguard, the creature takes no damage from this ability.

For all the nice stuff the blackguard gets, they need something to cancel it out. This is basically divine punishment, except that undead creatures can heal themselves by punching themselves out to submission. Bad idea when fighting undead, good idea when your minions are undead.

Vampiric Touch (Sp): At 7th level, the blackguard gains the ability to drain the lifeforce of creatures he touches. Treat as if the vampiric touch spell, but the blackguard is healed of actual hit point damage equal to the amount of damage dealt (instead of gaining the damage as temporary hit points), and his caster level for this ability is equal to half his blackguard’s class level. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier.

Pretty limited, but not that much. Basically, instead of giving a Lay on Harms, I decided to apply a necromantic spell and give it a different whirl; Vampiric Touch. Thus, while you do between 6 to 60 points of damage (an average of 3.5 to 35 based on your class level), you deal damage AND heal yourself for that amount. Since you can treat it as the Vampiric Touch spell, you can use a Bloodstone weapon with it, with a single difference; you heal yourself instead of gaining temporary hit points. Yes, HEAL. That means you can put one of your daily vampiric touches on a bloodstone weapon and make an attack that allows you to heal yourself as if using an empowered Vampiric Touch spell (wink, wink!)

Mettle (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, if a blackguard makes a successful Will or Fortitude save that would normally reduce the save’s effect, he suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells with a saving throw entry of “partial” or “half” are affected by this ability, and only for purposes of Will and/or Fortitude saves with these descriptors.

Same as Paladin, same as other tanks of mine. Mettle needs more love, you know...

Dark Blessing (Ex): At 11th level, a blackguard gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Evil Divine Grace. I know, bear with me on this one; it's not like the ORIGINAL Blackguard didn't have it.

Fiendish Absorption (Su): At 12th level whenever a blackguard is using his fiendish aura, it may deactivate the effect and instead apply this ability. Any enemy spellcaster that casts a spell that targets any of the blackguard’s allies within the area of the blackguard’s fiendish aura must make a caster level check (equal to the 10 plus the blackguard's class level plus his Strength and Charisma modifier) or have the spell be absorbed by the blackguard. The blackguard may either use the energy to heal itself (curing an amount of hit points equal to twice the spell’s level), increase the effect of the next spell cast by him (adding the absorbed spell’s level to the caster level or Difficulty Class of the spell), or gain a bonus equal to the level of the spell absorbed in attack rolls and damage rolls until the end of his turn. Spells cast upon the blackguard are not absorbed. A blackguard may absorb a number of spell levels equal to half his class level, and may only absorb spells, powers, invocations or mysteries (if cast as spells)

If the Paladin and the Bez-Kismet have ways to annoy spellcasters, the Blackguard will make even the most vile of all liches hate his guts. It's already bad that the spell has no effect; to have the spell actually ENHANCE the Blackguard is just abusive. And, the only one that can really be affected is the Blackguard when casting a spell, so... The fact that psionic powers, invocations AND mysteries (but not all mysteries) can be absorbed simply makes the Blackguard ANNOYING after level 12th. The only benefit is that it deactivates the other auras, so you don't have a Blackguard who's pestering you with damage over time AND just happens to cancel your spell and turn it into lifeforce or bonuses to his attacks.

Improved Mettle (Ex): At 13th level, a blackguard’s mettle ability improves. He still takes no effect on a successful Will or Fortitude save that has the “partial” or “half” descriptor, but henceforth he takes only the partial effect or half the damage on a failed save.

...AAAAAAND Improved Mettle needs some love as well.

Devastating Smite (Su): At 15th level, a blackguard’s smite good ability acquires a powerful new effect. As usual, a blackguard may choose a new method of smiting or improve existing smites to their next degree of power.
Terrifying: the blackguard’s smite literally kills its target out of fear. If the smitten creature fails its Will save, it dies instantly. Creatures that succeed on the saving throw may not be affected by the death effect of this smite for the next 24 hours. Creatures immune to fear are immune to this ability (but not to the fear effect of the smite; see above). A creature takes a -2 penalty on this save if frightened, and a -4 penalty on this save if panicked; this penalty stacks with the penalty to saving throws of the shaken fear effect.
Vicious: a blackguard may sacrifice hit points to intensify the damage dealt by his smite. By each hit point of damage he willingly takes, his smite deals two extra points of damage. So as long as one hit point is sacrificed, all creatures within 30 feet of the smitten creature take full damage on a failed Reflex save, and half damage on a successful save.
Weakening: the damage dealt by the blackguard’s smite becomes potentially lethal. A creature that fails its Fortitude save takes 1d6 points of Strength and Constitution drain (but still take no hit point damage) which ignores immunity to ability drain; furthermore, the creature is nauseated for a number of rounds equal to half the blackguard’s class level. A failed save causes one point of Strength and Constitution damage (which can be resisted by immunity to ability damage) and the creature is exhausted regardless of the saving throw result.

Weakening is the king of all smites, accept it. Though Terrifying is pretty nice, and Vicious works very nice with a Bloodstone weapon, don't you think?

Terrifying is basically Phantasmal Killer usable per encounter. It is a literal save or die, probably the ONLY save or die amongst the smites in the retoolings of Paladin and friends (and enemies). What's worse is the penalty on people that are already scared, which is potentially lethal. A panicked character is pretty much dead, so why not do it in style?

Vicious allows you to sacrifice even MORE HP to deal increased damage, and also to all enemies around you. The backlash damage will be intense (though, to clarify: you take the original backlash damage, so you'd take between 2 to 40 points of damage PLUS the HP you sacrifice, not 100 points of damage because you sacrificed 20 and the attack dealt like 80 points of damage). However, when you can deal massive amounts of damage on all allies with only a moderate expenditure of lifeforce, you know you have a strong smite on your hands. Or so I hope.

But Weakening...damn, that's brutal. 1d6 Str/Con drain? Immunity to ability drain? And NAUSEATED afterwards? If the guy isn't dead, he'll be soon, as taking an amount of point between one time and three times its HD can be pretty devastating, plus exhaustion and nausea will keep it locked real good.

So yeah, this should be the idea of devastating. Now that I think of it, Paladins have it real easy...they need their smites buffed up a bit.

Profane Resistance (Su): At 16th level, a blackguard gains the ability to further resist the spells of good creatures. He gains spell resistance equal to 15 + the blackguard’s class level, but only against spells with the good descriptor or any spell cast by characters of good alignment, clerics of good deities, deathless creatures (but not undead), or good outsiders.

Yup, Divine Resistance (aka spell resistance) but against good creatures. This can be a bit more harmful than it sounds, but Blackguards will rarely associate with good creatures, and there's always neutral clerics that will agree to assist.

Undying (Ex): At 17th level, a blackguard becomes capable of fighting even when his forces fail him, beyond where others could stand. A blackguard is never considered disabled or staggered, even if he has less than 0 hit points or his nonlethal damage exceeds his current hit point total. Furthermore, he may continue to fight even if he has less than -10 hit points, but only to an amount of negative hit points equal to 10 plus half his character level plus his Constitution modifier. Instant death effects and attacks that destroy the body still affect the blackguard if successful.

And, much like Paladins, they are tough to beat. Fighting like nothing until, for example, -25 hit points and having ways to recover themselves makes for a tough cookie to beat. Paladins are nigh undefeatable, but blackguards really kick it up a notch.

UPDATE: Probably one of the few things that Blackguards get that depends on Constitution. Really, they seem to depend more on Strength and Charisma than Constitution...

Undeath’s Blessing (Su): At 18th level, a blackguard acquires a special attunement to negative energy. He is treated as an undead in terms of spells that deal negative energy damage or energy drain, but only takes half the benefits (thus, heals half the damage dealt with an inflict spell, for example, but takes no further damage).

Sorta like Divine Health, but geared towards negative energy. It's very late, but the ability to be treated as an undead makes it pretty strong. Still, a Necropolitan achieved this eons ago, so it's not THAT powerful, but coupled with the next ability, it just MIGHT.

Villain of Legend: At 20th level, a blackguard becomes a fearsome villain, and his place in legend allows him to transcend his mortal condition. He is forevermore treated as a native outsider (unless he is already treated as one), gains the evil subtype, and gains damage reduction X/epic and good, where X is equal to half his class level.

So, basically, you're an outsider with wings of darkness, but ALSO with undead traits. Again: outsider with undead traits. So they get a nice suite of immunities, even if late, but they STILL benefit from positive energy healing and buffing. So the Blackguard is just as hard to crack as the Paladin, but it's a much more formidable solo character because it has ways to drain energy, much more lethal smites and much larger suite of protections.

Blackguard Spells
The following spells are exclusive or enhanced to the blackguard:
1st—cause fear**, corrupt weapon*, false life**, ray of enfeeblement**
2nd—air walk-, crushing despair**, mount**, ray of exhaustion**, scare**
3rd—enervation**, fear**, phantom steed**, poison-
4th—dispel good-, eyebite**, righteous might**, unholy blight-, waves of fatigue**

The following spells are denied to the blackguard:
0—purify food and drink
1st—bless, sanctuary
2nd—calm emotions, gentle repose
3rd—create food and water, glyph of warding, meld into stone, searing light, stone shape
4th—giant vermin, imbue with spell ability

Much like what I did with the Paladin and the Bez-Kismet, the Blackguard has access to all spells of the Cleric, except for a small list. Refer to the Paladin spell list and its corresponding commentary for further explanation of the method.

In this case, having a much larger list of spells they can choose (because of the fewer restrictions, such as necromancy spells and summoning spells), the spells that have to be removed must be some that would be commonly used for good OR peace. That's why Sanctuary and Call Emotions are gone. Stuff that provides bounty are also bad choices, so Purify/Create Food and Water are also gone. Bless is there since they get no bane, although they do get Aid and they get Prayer in any case (and eventually Mass Aid, if they want to). And Searing Light because they use darkness, not light, most of the times; oddly enough, the spell has no light descriptor, so it has to be added "manually".

So, aside from that, they get a huge load of spells. Again, if there's a need to cut some more fat from their spell list, consider which spells the Blackguard already has, and whatever doesn't fit the list has to go. However, they have a bit more leverage on spells because some of the spells there are from the arcane necromancy school, which has a lot of nice spells to add.

Again; this is a work in progress, but feel free to debate on the matter. I should cover Justiciar and Anarch later on, as well as attempt to do and post Liberator as an example of a one-alignment kind using the divine warrior chassis. You have two classes to compare, and the others are similar in most means but have abilities that work entirely different.

[NineThePuma]

Can you spoiler the pictures?

Also: I've been quietly waiting for stuff to comment on, and you've presented it. I'll read through this later. For now, know I've got you on watch so when you post a topic I get a nifty little PM.

(The watch involves my little brother, but, yeah.)

[Lyndworm]

Oskar, you've blown me away again. I loved the Warmage, Ranger, and Bez-Kismet, and now I love the Paladin/Blackguard. I have nothing to add to this magnificent piece of art; I wish only to let you know that you have a fan.

[arguskos]

Ok wow. T.G., you keep smacking me in the gob with delicious victory like this. How do you do it, T.G.?

Now I need to try this one out, keep testing your fine work out. :smallcool:

[Shark Uppercut]

Best paladin redux I've ever seen. You have cool abilities, but retain Paladin flavor. You have auras, but don't make them complicated.
And you smite system is powerful enough to make ninjas weep.

For an example of something that was once a paladin's code . . a long time ago, in a naive and idealistic world, look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193630). Obviously, I didn't make it, but it's awesome in a different way.
Your paladin smites evil, and moves on.
His crusader disfigures it, and lets it sit in pain.

[Waargh!]

The problem I find with the "invincible" moto for a Paladin is that practically it doesn't give the right feeling to the player in most cases.

Your thought is that the Paladin needs to survive because he will no retreat like a coward. He will face any evil enemy and risk his life to do his duty.
But he can also act as any Good character with the addition of being invincible. He can risk a bit more since he knows he has very high defenses.

It is as you said, if you don't feel fear you won't be courageous!
This will certainly apply to the players that control the character. Kind of jeopardizing the whole idea.

The solution is to force players to play a character as intended. Fluff-wise this can be done by forcing a strong "code of honor". This is nice, but you have to consider that you play as a party, not a solo character. Going into missions that noone else would go it not practical if your companions won't join you.

Instead of that I prefer a more flexible code of honor but rely on good mechanics to make the player feel the essence of a Paladin. The method is to base the Paladin's power on his courage, the way he addresses his code of honor, his faith in his role etc.
The can be done with Faith Points, with Moral Points or any other point system where you get points if you act accordingly.

For example, consider giving him a less powerful but at-will Smite Evil. You make the player focus on Evil creatures. If they are 2 Evil creatures and 5 Neutral, if you have it per encounter, he will (yes) smite 1 Evil one, but after its dead, he can go to the next "strategical" target. Which might be Neutral. Where if it was continuous you kind of "push" the player to smite Evil and then focus on the consider the strategy of the battle...

Now, consider gaining a Courage Point whenever you succeed on a save that could have killed you. Consider a Courageous point can be spend to re-roll a save with a bonus.
Compare that of getting 25% increase on your save and some immunities against death.
The first means that if you are facing near death experiences you are granted higher chances of surviving. If you not, then you are just a normal warrior.
The second means that you are generally powerful regardless the situation.

Consider giving him a bonus related on the CR being faced...

All the above are just examples on how you can make a point system or abilities that are augmented when the challenge is augmented.

In other words, unlike a Wizard which personally gains power and can use that power as she wishes, a Paladin gains power only to use it for a Higher Purpose. If she was to use it just to win a duel, that power won't be granted to her.

Concluding: You award the courage of players, you buff their character against powerful enemies, you make them focus on their code because they will get awarded if they do so.
Result: Players are more likely to play the way you describe a Paladin.

[Dust]

I have a major problem with these classes - namely, the non-optional wings.

My favorite paladin of all time was an old curmudgeon, a retired warrior in his 70s that was stepping back onto the battlefield because the world needed heroes again. Had this paladin fix been the default version found in the books, imagining my wrinkled soldier prancing about with a pair of angelic wings to go with his walking stick would have tuned me off the concept completely.

A lot of your base classes are built with a very specific character concept in mind, instead of remembering that heroes (and hell, even villains) come in all shapes and sizes.

Necrotic Punishment also really bothers me. It just seems so utterly random and irrational - can you imagine a Blackguard leading an army of undead onto a city, with the instructions that 'if you get wounded, just come back here and punch me a few times?'

Also note that your Blackguard's Fiendish Aura is listed as Aura of Good (Ex) in the descriptions below.

[Elfstone]

I love this. Very nice. I will be watching.

@The concept above me
What are you doing playing this class? Take a martial class instead. Soldier from playswithfire fits the old man warrior concept better.

[Lyndworm]

I have a major problem with these classes - namely, the non-optional wings.

My favorite paladin of all time was an old curmudgeon, a retired warrior in his 70s that was stepping back onto the battlefield because the world needed heroes again. Had this paladin fix been the default version found in the books, imagining my wrinkled soldier prancing about with a pair of angelic wings to go with his walking stick would have tuned me off the concept completely.
I... I don't really know what to say, here. I'm just going to be honest; please be aware that I don't mean any offense by what I'm about to say. If the fluff behind a class would turn you off of the mechanics, that says more about you then it does the class. Having the wings manifest constantly is supposed to allow you to fly at will. If you don't like the idea of ethereal wings lifting your character to the heavens, refluff them. Maybe there are no wings whatsoever, and he just floats. Maybe the wings appear only when he needs them. It's probably not a big deal.


A lot of your base classes are built with a very specific character concept in mind, instead of remembering that heroes (and hell, even villains) come in all shapes and sizes.
I'll grant you that for the paladin/blackguard (although I would argue that the standard classes have the same issue). What else did you have in mind when making the above statement?


Necrotic Punishment also really bothers me. It just seems so utterly random and irrational - can you imagine a Blackguard leading an army of undead onto a city, with the instructions that 'if you get wounded, just come back here and punch me a few times?'
That wouldn't heal them. Necrotic Punishment only heals them if they hit each other, not if they hit the blackguard. I can easily imagine a blackguard instructing his minions to tear one another apart and devour their own ally's essence. Again, it's a fluff thing.

[Dust]

Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but something about the statement of "If you don't like one ability in a class, play a different class" rubs me the wrong way. While I understand you meant no offense, I do resent the implication that I'm not able to choose which class best represents my character concept, even if it might be a little flawed.

So I disagree. It's a big deal to me.
When we're discussing the pair of magical wings that sprout from the character's back, or however you want to re-imagine the at-will flight, we're not discussing fluff. That is a mechanical aspect of the character class, much like the mount that has been removed. It implies that every Paladin will be able to fly at high levels, that it is a core part of the class that helps define it, and I'm on the side of the fence that says this design decision is a mistake.

If I was to, say, give all high-level rangers gills, or insist all sorcerers got dragonic wings due to their heritage, there would be people who complained about this. While I understand Paladins = Aion-esque Holy Avengers is a relatively commonly-enjoyed trope, the wings are a singular ability that jumps out at me to sum up everything that's wrong with this retooling: It only takes into account what the creator would like to play, and not caring about what other people would like to play.

Before I get too far into this, let me point out that I like the Blackguard and have no arguments about it. I enjoyed the Healer, the Defender of Sealtiel, the Monk. But too much of the Paladin smacks of my biggest problem with Oskar's homebrews, which is, very simply, that he is all about aligning things to his singular archetype worldview by giving them more stuff. More firepower, more stealth, more awesome, more minmaxery, more levels, and so on. Trouble is, this doesn't always make for a better playing experience.

When he talks about the paladin he even says, "Personally, I used the mount only once. It was nice, but I never felt like it contributed to my character. Couldn't summon it inside of a dungeon, forced me to charge, and required me to think about how to use it properly."
To me, this is a problem, and I'm unsure how any homebrewer can make broad painted statements like "I didn't build my character a certain way, so I'm not bothering to include the option in my supposed fix."
This is further set into stone with the line, "only useful if you were mounted on a pony with a drill for a weapon, shouting the finest praises to your deity in hopes you could land a crit."

At the end of the day, Paladin is a pretty open-and-shut class, with a very slim set of class features that define it. I've enjoyed a lot of the homebrews that give paladins alternatives, and expand a little bit on what they already have. But this is one of Oskar's projects that ultimately reads to me as 'Give it more dakka, add wings and sparkles.'
And that's just not an interpretation I like or agree with.


That wouldn't heal them. Necrotic Punishment only heals them if they hit each other, not if they hit the blackguard.
The blackguard doesn't count as an 'ally?' to its undead minion? Consider a situation where the Blackguard only uses one undead follower. In this case, either the ability is worthless or it requires the undead to strike it's master for health. Either way, I'd call it flawed.

[Lyndworm]

Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but something about the statement of "If you don't like one ability in a class, play a different class" rubs me the wrong way.
Did I give you that impression with my response? If so, then I think I owe you an apology.

I think that if you don't like one ability in a class, then you should work with your DM to change. That will always be my first response, because that's the point of P&P RPGs, I think. It's grown-up make-believe, which means pretty much anything goes.


While I understand you meant no offense, I do resent the implication that I'm not able to choose which class best represents my character concept, even if it might be a little flawed.
Again, if you're getting that implication from me then I owe you an apology. I am apparently not being very clear in my messages.

Is this part of your post in reference to Elfstone telling you to play a Fighter? If so, then I totally see where you're coming from. If not, then I'm deeply troubled that my posts could be so wildly misinterpreted.


So I disagree. It's a big deal to me.
When we're discussing the pair of magical wings that sprout from the character's back, or however you want to re-imagine the at-will flight, we're not discussing fluff. That is a mechanical aspect of the character class, much like the mount that has been removed. It implies that every Paladin will be able to fly at high levels, that it is a core part of the class that helps define it, and I'm on the side of the fence that says this design decision is a mistake.
I suppose that I must be on the other side of that fence, then. I don't see where allowing a blessed, but "mundane" warrior to channel his divine might into the ability to strike down the scions of unholy terror from the very skies is a bad thing.


If I was to, say, give all high-level rangers gills, or insist all sorcerers got dragonic wings due to their heritage, there would be people who complained about this.
I would likely be one of them, too. This is because I disagree with the idea of permanent physical changes to character (in most cases, anyway). If you were to allow the ranger to breathe underwater without forcing him to grow freakish fish parts, I would be OK with that.

As for the sorcerer... That one's a tricky subject with me anyway. In the PhB sorcerers are, indeed, draconic-descended people who rely on their heritage for power. As more and more books were published, however, they could draw their power from other sources, such as celestial, fey, and fiendish, (and I think even giants, once). Besides that, I never cared much for the fluffy aspects for pretty much anything, and never hesitate to adapt mechanics to fit my character, rather than adapt my character to fit fluff.


While I understand Paladins = Aion-esque Holy Avengers is a relatively commonly-enjoyed trope, the wings are a singular ability that jumps out at me to sum up everything that's wrong with this retooling: It only takes into account what the creator would like to play, and not caring about what other people would like to play.
There are so many things called Aion (and I'm so far removed from "common knowledge") that I'm not really sure what you're referencing with its usage. I can understand where you're coming from with the last bit, though, and to a certain degree I agree with you. This class is very obviously Oskar's Paladin and not Paladin, because he is biased and because (being based on his own imagination), anything he makes (and likes) will be suited more to his tastes than ours.

However, a class with enough customization to please everyone would be just about impossible. Rather than argue about why Oskar is wrong to make what he wants to make, why don't you tell me/him what you would've done? What, to you, is a paladin? What separates him from a very religious Fighter, or an extremely martial Cleric?


Before I get too far into this, let me point out that I like the Blackguard and have no arguments about it. I enjoyed the Healer, the Defender of Sealtiel, the Monk. But too much of the Paladin smacks of my biggest problem with Oskar's homebrews, which is, very simply, that he is all about aligning things to his singular archetype worldview by giving them more stuff. More firepower, more stealth, more awesome, more minmaxery, more levels, and so on. Trouble is, this doesn't always make for a better playing experience.
I can completely respect this view. I can't really refute it, either. That's a very nice statement.


When he talks about the paladin he even says, "Personally, I used the mount only once. It was nice, but I never felt like it contributed to my character. Couldn't summon it inside of a dungeon, forced me to charge, and required me to think about how to use it properly."
To me, this is a problem, and I'm unsure how any homebrewer can make broad painted statements like "I didn't build my character a certain way, so I'm not bothering to include the option in my supposed fix."
This is further set into stone with the line, "only useful if you were mounted on a pony with a drill for a weapon, shouting the finest praises to your deity in hopes you could land a crit."
Not to nitpick, but this isn't a Fix, it's a Retooling. There's a difference, but the lines can blur sometimes and I know I sound like a jerk for pointing it out so I'll just stop talking about it.

Anyhoo, to me it seems more like a clash of ideals than any wrong-doing on Oskar's part. When you hear "paladin" you don't see wings. When he hears "paladin" he doesn't see a mount. Just because the PhB did it/didn't do it that way doesn't mean it's any less of a valid class deserving the title of paladin.


At the end of the day, Paladin is a pretty open-and-shut class, with a very slim set of class features that define it. I've enjoyed a lot of the homebrews that give paladins alternatives, and expand a little bit on what they already have. But this is one of Oskar's projects that ultimately reads to me as 'Give it more dakka, add wings and sparkles.'
And that's just not an interpretation I like or agree with.
I disagree with your oversimplification of the class, but I can't disagree with the message I feel you're trying to express with it. You seem to have a very valid point, there.


The blackguard doesn't count as an 'ally?' to its undead minion? Consider a situation where the Blackguard only uses one undead follower. In this case, either the ability is worthless or it requires the undead to strike it's master for health. Either way, I'd call it flawed.
When an ally is struck, the blackguard's class feature releases the negative energy. When the blackguard himself is struck it does not. If the blackguard and a single skeleton are in combat with some other group, any creature that attacks the skeleton gets it by the negative energy (provided its within 30ft).





Not that I don't enjoy discussing this with you, but I think that I'm going to stop responding to posts similar to those we've been making, at least in this thread. I'd really, truly hate to see this thread get a warning/shutting just because you and I were debating the ethics of homebrewing in a third person's thread... That's not fair to Oskar.

[NineThePuma]

Holy crap, Blackguard gestalted with a Necrolock would be... amazing...

[Dust]

For the purposes of keeping things brief - as you mentioned, to avoid the risk of this thread being locked or otherwise getting off-topic - I have to agree with most everything you said, Lyndworm. We're very much on the same page, I think.

Oskar, I would recommend the following to alleviate the winged issue; perhaps they can gain/cause the effects of one of the following 3rd-level sor/wiz spells, flavored accordingly and chosen upon gaining the class feature; Fly (via wings), Phantom Steed (for the mount lovers), Protection From Energy (stroll into a burning orphanage and whatnot), Daylight, or Heroism. And at higher levels, this chosen effect could become permanent.

[Witty Username]

how would undying and undying resolve work with death house rules for example -Con score instead of -10?

I like these, I would have personally gone in the wisdom direction for paladin but still good.
Oh, and your Blackguard radiates good.:smallamused:

[NineThePuma]

I would think that you just go:


Furthermore, he may continue to fight even if he has less than -Con hit points, but only to an amount of negative hit points equal to Con plus half his character level plus his Charisma modifier. Instant death effects and attacks that destroy the body still affect the blackguard if successful.

<< Pretty simple, and it should be part of the house rules.

[Elfstone]

My point was simply this, you can't walk into someones project and say its wrong. It would be like me walking into wherever you work and pointing to a project you've been working on for a year and saying "Thats wrong, as I would have done it differently". I think this has been addressed, so ill drop the subject. My comment was only meant to be to you, what I felt yours was to Oskar.

For the purposes of keeping things brief - as you mentioned, to avoid the risk of this thread being locked or otherwise getting off-topic - I have to agree with most everything you said, Lyndworm. We're very much on the same page, I think.

Oskar, I would recommend the following to alleviate the winged issue; perhaps they can gain/cause the effects of one of the following 3rd-level sor/wiz spells, flavored accordingly and chosen upon gaining the class feature; Fly (via wings), Phantom Steed (for the mount lovers), Protection From Energy (stroll into a burning orphanage and whatnot), Daylight, or Heroism. And at higher levels, this chosen effect could become permanent.

[InfiniteNothing]

Okay, I'm sorry if this was mentioned before, and I'm sorry if I sound like a grammar nazi here, but the term is smote. Smitten essentially means lovestruck.

Otherwise, pretty good so far. Definitely on par with the rest of your work, Oskar.

[Dust]

My point was simply this, you can't walk into someones project and say its wrong.
Yes, you can.
Kind of a moot point though, as I didn't type that. I stated that I had a problem with the homebrew from a conceptual standpoint and proceeded to outline why this was, and proposed a fix after thinking about it for awhile.

It would be like me walking into wherever you work and pointing to a project you've been working on for a year and saying "Thats wrong, as I would have done it differently".
Which is also, quite honestly, fine. And kind of an odd example to use, since it happens in the real world a LOT. Just ask a graphic designer or anyone who works with a large customer base. Imagine if Oskar was helping alter an MMORPG class instead of a D&D class.

This post wasn't labeled PEACH, so I do apologize for giving an honest criticism. That is, without question, my fault. However, I get the impression that Oskar is pretty professional when it comes to his 3.5 work, and a single voice of disagreement among his enormous amount of success wouldn't leave him a broken man. If anything, I feel he'd invite the one criticism for his pages upon pages of work here - something I guess we'll find out when he does eventually reply to this thread.

But honestly, I feel that if someone can't be told 'I wouldn't play that. Here's why,' then they have no business homebrewing. I'm not attacking Oskar, only pointing out what I perceive to be a flaw in his work. And I feel that a third party jumping in to defend him is not only unconstructive, but downright insulting to both of us.

[NineThePuma]

Okay, seriously, guys? Quit it. The argument is old, lets drop this issue and focus on the class.

Anyone have specific points about various bits that are confusing or need work? >=\

[Seerow]

I like the Paladin, a lot. I haven't looked at blackguard yet, but I assume it's more or less an evil copy of what you did with the Paladin. I'll give it a more thorough look over tomorrow to confirm/deny that.


A couple of comments just at first glance:
-Permanent flight seems to come a few levels too late. This may be offset by flight coming once per encounter at 14, but I see permanent flight as something more along the lines of a 15-16th level ability, not 19.

-The first improved smite comes too early. It makes for a pretty jarring progression. You get smite, 4 levels later it improves, then it's another 10 levels before it improves again. The abilities are pretty strong for twice an encounter at level 5 besides. I'd say bump it back to 7 or 8, introducing 4th level spells to the picture makes it a bit more balanced, and it gives an overall smoother progression.

-I do think it would be pretty cool to allow a little more customization on the smiting. Say instead of locking them into one type of smite for life, they can choose to pick up the first level of an old one, or improve one they already have. Even the low level effects aren't that terrible, and the extra versatility may be worth it to a given paladin, especially depending on the setting they're in.

-I'm not sure that the concentration check is going to accomplish what you want it to. Skill checks are usually pretty easy to pass/cheese out, and monsters typically have a lot of hit dice that lets them get pretty inflated skill checks. While a concentration check is more internally rules consistent, a more reliable effect would be making it a will saving throw or lose the spell.

-Speaking of Auras, retribution aura seems pretty strong, and particularly punishes opponents with a lot of attacks, as opposed to opponents that just hit really hard. Perhaps a cap of how much it can reflect to a given target per turn, rather than a cap per hit?

-While I like what you're doing thematically with fear effects, I don't like that it makes it more beneficial to fail a saving throw vs fear than to pass it. Especially when you have such high saves. Similar issue with the courage aura, which grants a bonus to save vs fear, but then grants allies a bonus while under a fear effect.

-Devotion Aura seems particularly strong, letting the paladin apply Charisma to AC and again to reflex saves (effectively allowing you to bring reflex up to a strong save as well), and also acting as a shield other spell. I see this being much stronger than say Vigor Aura, which would mostly only get used for out of combat healing, and why burn a class feature on what you can get for some cheap wands, without the half hp restriction?

-I'd kind of like to see Lay On Hands become a bit more powerful, or at least have some minor recharge, becoming an in combat heal that you use mid encounter to save yourself or others, but I'm not sure how you could do that without breaking the healing economy. Even giving something like half the current amount as a heal per encounter allows players to sit around after the encounter healing up with it, unless you explicitly disallow it somehow.

-Have you considered that with your changes, Charisma really has become the primary stat, and strength is really taking a back seat for the most part? I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I'm just pointing out, with a couple more tweaks, you could basically make the paladin Cha/Con focused, rather than Cha/Str, with Str instead showing up as that tertiary stat. If you intend for Str to still be a Paladin's highest stat though, it probably needs a bit more going for it than just the bonus to hit/damage, given that charisma affects basically everything else the Paladin wants to do, and a decent amount of the time the Paladin even gets charisma to hit.


Now don't get me wrong on my nitpicks, by and large I like what you did. I agree with your vision of the Paladin as a tank, and it's good to see a 3.5 class that's actually capable of fulfilling the role.

[T.G. Oskar]

Yes, you can.
Kind of a moot point though, as I didn't type that. I stated that I had a problem with the homebrew from a conceptual standpoint and proceeded to outline why this was, and proposed a fix after thinking about it for awhile.

Which is also, quite honestly, fine. And kind of an odd example to use, since it happens in the real world a LOT. Just ask a graphic designer or anyone who works with a large customer base. Imagine if Oskar was helping alter an MMORPG class instead of a D&D class.

This post wasn't labeled PEACH, so I do apologize for giving an honest criticism. That is, without question, my fault. However, I get the impression that Oskar is pretty professional when it comes to his 3.5 work, and a single voice of disagreement among his enormous amount of success wouldn't leave him a broken man. If anything, I feel he'd invite the one criticism for his pages upon pages of work here - something I guess we'll find out when he does eventually reply to this thread.

But honestly, I feel that if someone can't be told 'I wouldn't play that. Here's why,' then they have no business homebrewing. I'm not attacking Oskar, only pointing out what I perceive to be a flaw in his work. And I feel that a third party jumping in to defend him is not only unconstructive, but downright insulting to both of us.

Wanna know something, Dusk? I agree with this point 100%, probably even higher. When I post a homebrew, I don't mind the praise, but I do look forward to the critique, and specifically to those who say "I don't like it", because it tells me that there's something I might need to change.

Wings-wise, I was dealing with a problem related to movement, which is mentioned not just on the Paladin but on most martial characters. Ideally, the wizard will cast Mass Fly on the party and problem solved, but the general idea regarding Wizards is that they'd rather use that Mass Fly spell slot to cast Summon Monster V or Planar Binding which could replace in a way the lack of melee characters. Thus, as a way to assist the Paladin, I gave it self-propelled flight.

On the topic of mounts, it's not that I don't like them, or that I don't feel they are part of the iconography of the Paladin. I don't like the mechanic behind it, but it's not as if I wouldn't provide that option as an ACF that probably sacrifices something else; certainly, it wouldn't be the wings (probably the aura, because it's a scaling ability). The mount still exists in one way or another, via the mount spell (which summons a warhorse without any benefits) or getting your own mount.

Still, that doesn't mean they are the best ideas. Paladin and Blackguard both have flight capability; however, the fact I still haven't gone with Justiciar (which has a vanilla increase to movement speed) or the Anarch (which has a jaunting ability pretty much exactly like the Bez-Kismet and similar to the Abrupt Jaunt of the Wizard in a way) kinda limits that "expanded movement" option. But it can go further; perhaps having the idea of a forced method of movement might not be the best way to handle granting increased mobility to the Paladin, while something as iconic as the mount should have been there. In my opinion, while I do go with a method of class-based expansion to movement, it isn't the most elegant solution; however, the mount is not an elegant solution either. The Ranger has the Animal Companion, for example, which is an iconic ability, and the variety of companions it has works quite well for the idea of a "defender of nature"; however, since it also allows ACFs that remove it for increased magical power or a method to improve their skirmishing abilities: the fact the AC remains and scales properly with the Retooled Ranger makes it an ideal, and I would dare say elegant solution because not everybody will take that improved Animal Companion but it's still there for those who want them, it retains backwards-compatibility and it retains the flavor of the original.

However, I would like to discuss the alternative:


Oskar, I would recommend the following to alleviate the winged issue; perhaps they can gain/cause the effects of one of the following 3rd-level sor/wiz spells, flavored accordingly and chosen upon gaining the class feature; Fly (via wings), Phantom Steed (for the mount lovers), Protection From Energy (stroll into a burning orphanage and whatnot), Daylight, or Heroism. And at higher levels, this chosen effect could become permanent.

The five presented abilities are wildly divergent in power. Fly is quite useful, Phantom Steed works as an improvement to Mount in that regard, Protection from Energy is already on the Paladin spell list alongside Daylight, and the only ability that might have a strong iconic feel would be Heroism. Daylight would be the weakest of the abilities presented, since it's already an improvement over Light; Protection from Energy would be phenomenal if permanent, but it progresses VERY slowly. Fly and Phantom Steed are useful at nearly every moment, and Phantom Steed progresses very elegantly. And Heroism rarely progresses at all and is eventually outclassed by better buffs, Greater Heroism and Good Hope being the specific upgrades. Whenever the player is presented with the idea of which abilities to get, Fly and/or Phantom Steed will dominate over the rest, with Fly more useful for the characters that prefer no mounts and Phantom Steed for those who do. Daylight, on the other hand, will be a trap option a la Monte Cook, which few people would actually use since they can get better light options. Thus, all abilities would have to be at an equal degree of power; Divine Aura works within that concept, offering five abilities that should be equal or at least mildly divergent in power (people may and probably WILL choose Devotion, Retribution and Vigor because they are the strongest of the bunch, while few people will choose Consecrate unless they are on an undead-heavy campaign or with two or more people that use divine feats. BTW, I could use some tweaking on that regard.

However, a more elegant solution would be to add Fly, Phantom Steed and Heroism to the Paladin spell list, from which they could choose as part of their known spells, using the Paladin's CL and the Paladin's spell slots.

It's not a bad idea; what you want is basically give them something that grants them increased options; however, I'd like to see this from a supernatural bent, and abilities that could increase on their own right without being collapsed by the addition of X or Y spell to the Paladin spell list. If the ability is refined (probably expanding the movement options and grant abilities to those who aren't interested in movement something that would be fitting), I might consider it. It's definitely not a bad idea (heck, I DO like the idea of something like Phantom Steed being part of the Paladin spell list or even part of the choices of a class ability), but I feel it could be refined to make it less a bunch of spell-like abilities that could be spells and more supernatural abilities that have a definite Paladin feel.

Also, and to clear this out: when I made the retooling to the Paladin, the idea was to grant it new abilities and improved versions of their old ones (basically, the definition of "retooling" emerges from the idea of renewing the tools the original class has), but in a great deal was a way to make a class that I could feel satisfied playing. It's...part of the whole idea on touching what's my favorite class; if I'm not satisfied with my own changes but just about everyone else does, then I find it troubling because I wouldn't be able to play with my own creation. However, that doesn't mean that because I have to be satisfied with my own creation that I won't accept any ideas or changes behind it. Quite the contrary; that pitch of Phantom Steed, if refined as a way to create a different method of special mount, is not only elegant but also impressive. But, there might be some other stuff I don't want to change, and I'll defend that. I appreciate that most people look at it and say "wow, this is amazing!" but it's not the same until I get someone that says "there's something wrong with this", we deal with it, and the end result is even more surprising.

So, to make this short: thanks for the support and the bashing, but there's no need to rush it out if there's something GOOD coming from that, which is the point of posting it here. The Retooled Monk, IMO, is FAR from over and constantly in a state of evolution, because while the stuff I add, remove or exchange please me, there's still something that says "this could be better". This would probably be one of the most ambitious projects I've made, if only because it deals with exactly what I would play with, but in a way that separates it from a mere "Fighter/Cleric" or a "Crusader with spells", which I find are two concepts that can coexist with a class called Paladin (the war-priest and the idealistic swordsmaster, respectively).

Now, Dust, there's something that intrigues me, and I'd like to go bit by bit for it: the Paladin and the Blackguard are essentially mirror images of themselves, they use the same chassis and you could basically take the Blackguard's unique abilities, mix them with the paladin and make a much larger "holy warrior" class, so I find curious that the idea of the Blackguard is fine but the idea of the Paladin is skewed. As well, the fact that you seem to enjoy the Healer, the Defender of Sealtiel and the Monk imply that there is at least a 50% of stuff in the classes that was done well and elegantly enough to warrant your attention. Based on those classes, and as a way to see how not just the Paladin, but the entire "holy warrior" chassis could be improved, what do you see in those aforementioned classes that the Paladin could use, aside from depending less on "more dakka" (which isn't really so bad...if you have Orky mentality, that is :D)?

Long story short: I appreciate honest (and let's face it, blunt critique) even if I don't just tell anybody to PEACH, so there's no need to defend it if I don't have the time to answer it. Still, I could use happy mediums in that.

P.S. Paladin is hard to make customizable without considering that it's already a quite fluff-intensive archetype, so anything that makes it as customizable as possible while giving it a reason to exist is welcome.

[Waargh!]

I believe the Paladin class (haven't yet looked at Blackguard) is balanced.
Powerful, but balanced. The PHB Paladin can actually get more powerful if built as a mounted warrior, so this version is more balanced.

Saving throws:
Compared to the PHB Paladin, he gets high Will and Improved Mettle.
Improved Mettle is indeed a powerful ability, but considering that the "half" or "partial" shouldn't be that bad as a result of an attack and that the Paladin will have a high enough Fort most of the time, we can fairly say that the difference will be a high Will Save. Not that overpowered and obviously a Paladin should have had a high Will.

Smite Evil:
Obviously the original ability is too weak. And it is very limited. So this ability now is fixed. It is very powerful if you are fighting constantly Evil creatures, but is useless if you are not. So overall I will say it is balanced.

Wings:
A fair substitute for a mount. Personally I would prefer a flying semi-real Pegasus that just enables you to fly. This would keep the flavor of the mount, since a Paladin is a Knight and a Knight has usually is mounted.
Of course, fluff is fluff.

Rest of abilities:
They are balanced abilities I believe. They fix all those dead levels of the Paladin, so they are perfectly OK.

[Dust]

It's 4:30am, so hopefully you'll forgive me if I end up being difficult to understand in places and this post gets riddled with typos. As an aside, cheers for the eloquent response, Oskar. I appreciate you taking the time to address me, especially given the fact that I'm being difficult in such an out-of-the-blue manner. :smallbiggrin:

Before I get too much into the conversation, I'd like to explain a little bit about where I'm coming from.
My local group has long since come to the conclusion that 3.5 is chock-full of balance problems. We've dabbled with Pathfinder and are looking forward to the bigger releases like d20r, but for the most part, when we play 3.5, we each hop online, find a homebrew class/fix that we like, present them as a group, and, if all the other players approve, we get started with that.
Paladin has long been one of my favorite classes, and I have yet to find a fix that the group unanimously approves. This is mostly because they all suffer from short attention spans, with most paladin reimaginings being long, drawn-out multi-page affairs.

So you can imagine my glee when I saw this post. I had used your Healer class in a game not long ago and enjoyed myself immensely.

Understand, ultimately, that I'm not criticizing the wings. I've played a half-celestial before and took great pride in being able to take flight. In fact, if you decide not to budge on the issue, I'll probably end up using this homebrew anyway and be totally A-OK soaring around gracefully in combat. I'm disagreeing with a fundamental design decision that surprised me, coming from you. In my eyes, your defining characteristic as a homebrewer is your first step, where you sit down and define what a class IS. I'm reminded of the Bez-Kizmet, where your opening paragraph talked about what the essence of the Hexblade class was all about and how you interpreted this.
You constantly demonstrate you understand the importance of iconic abilities, so it's not something I have to harp on.
And I'm right there with you - the way I see it, making anything a class feature means that, unlike skills, feats and spells which can be picked and chosen, you're making a generalization about a class that is set in stone. Pure barbarians are all illiterate. Level 20 monks are all outsiders. All druids are immune to venom.

Which is why the single class ability surprised me, honestly.
Every other class ability is not only effective and well-thought-out, but flows seamlessly together to create a class that has flavor and style without forcing suggesting a certain look, or style, that some players might reject. Much like a bard can be a goblin with a set of drums or a bare-chested rock star, every other aspect of this Paladin retooling works together elegantly. You'll never find a single person who disagrees that Unyielding Resolve, or Diehard, or Merciful, or even Hero of Legend works perfectly with the communal view we have of this class.

Only Hero’s Wings/Fiendish Wings sit there, like a blemish, and I'm sure most agree that they're very cool. Honestly, so do I. My argument is that they're not fundamental to the class, and that's what makes all the difference. A barbarian who doesn't Rage will probably be the laughingstock of his tribe. But this dude....
http://www.dragnix.net/Msg_Board/The_High_Council/www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery1/44274_C1_blackguard.jpg
....is still a Blackguard, even despite the lack of glorious demon/bat wings.

It just seems tacked-on and unfinished, and as such, I felt the need to point it out; especially because these are the first two classes to officially follow your 'chassis' design style, and are helping set all the important precedents.

On to some specific stuff.


On the topic of mounts, it's not that I don't like them, or that I don't feel they are part of the iconography of the Paladin. I don't like the mechanic behind it....
That's fair. Honestly, neither do I.


The five presented abilities are wildly divergent in power.
:smalltongue:
Understand that I am downright terrible at 3.5 homebrew. Because we play exclusively with homebrewed classes, there's big swatches of the system I lack intricate knowledge on. And since spellcasters are the biggest offenders for gamebreaking, spellcasting is my weakest area of knowledge by far. Those 'five spells presented' were truly nothing more than me attempting to remember what other arcane/divine spells were obtained at the same level as the Fly spell, and could theoretically be applied to the Paladin as an alternative.

In fact, the "What's in a Name" competition, as you'll see if you ever happen to glance at it, contains my first bit of 3.5 homebrew. Besides being inspired by your own works, my contribution there was greatly inspired by my realization that I DON'T know squat about the mechanical aspect of 3.5 and should probably get learning. I only know what I like and what I don't.



Wings-wise, I was dealing with a problem related to movement, which is mentioned not just on the Paladin but on most martial characters.
This is one of the things that I've always wondered about; a commonly-accepted truth that I'm sort of out-of-the-loop on presumably due to the inexperiences noted above. In my admittedly-narrow experiences, permanently flying opponents, unless you're dealing with enemies with casting class levels, are few and far between. I can't count creatures who swoop down to attack, because readied actions therefore make for a far more interesting battle than ground-bound opponents.
At least in my mind, mid-air opponents are the last resort for a GM who struggles to keep encounters challenging. To that end, picking up winged boots for 16,000gp seems like a minimal investment if you're facing a GM who likes the flight gimmick, of a Shield of Flying, or Celestial Armor, or any number of other things.
I understand that all martial classes can be completely shot down by perpetually-airborne enemies late in the game, but it strikes me as odd that fighters and barbarians - who are the PURE melee fighters - are left searching for other solutions. In my mind, the Paladin who has the ability to 'tank' and cast supportive spells is the melee character best-suited to remain ground-bound if anyone is forced to.


However, a more elegant solution would be to add Fly, Phantom Steed and Heroism to the Paladin spell list, from which they could choose as part of their known spells, using the Paladin's CL and the Paladin's spell slots.

It's not a bad idea; what you want is basically give them something that grants them increased options; however, I'd like to see this from a supernatural bent, and abilities that could increase on their own right without being collapsed by the addition of X or Y spell to the Paladin spell list.

....I feel it could be refined to make it less a bunch of spell-like abilities that could be spells and more supernatural abilities that have a definite Paladin feel.
I agree with all of your above statements. I'd like to go into more detail and discuss this further, but I find myself hitting the point of exhaustion now and I'll have to talk about it more later.
It's something I'll certainly ponder over the next few days, and get back to you if anything jumps to mind. I will, of course, be watching this thread.
I remember a prior thread of yours, where you discussed how the four tiers of spells was effectively 'half casting,' whereas six levels was closer to being a 'two-thirds' caster, and that was something I wholeheartedly agreed with. I'm of the opinion as well that any changes made to this class feature should remain exactly that, supernatural abilities as opposed to spells, though Phantom Steed probably wouldn't go amiss by appearing on the spell list somewhere.


I find curious that the idea of the Blackguard is fine but the idea of the Paladin is skewed.
Untrue. I disagree with wings being quintessential to the Blackguard as well, as pointed out earlier in this thread. As I didn't intend on using the blackguard in an actual game, I only skimmed it while my thoughts were still on the former class.


As well, the fact that you seem to enjoy the Healer, the Defender of Sealtiel and the Monk imply that there is at least a 50% of stuff in the classes that was done well and elegantly enough to warrant your attention. Based on those classes, and as a way to see how not just the Paladin, but the entire "holy warrior" chassis could be improved, what do you see in those aforementioned classes that the Paladin could use, aside from depending less on "more dakka" (which isn't really so bad...if you have Orky mentality, that is :D)?
The Healer, as produced by WoTC, was interesting conceptually but fell flat in practice as you obviously know. My first character ever was a Healer, and I remember feeling utterly outclassed after a few deaths took place that I was unable to prevent, and a Radiant Servant of Pelor CODzilla stepped in to 'help.'
That was a situation where adding more oomph was flat-out nessecary. Same with the retooled samurai, and of course, your Monk, which is now pretty standard fare in my group. The paladin, however, is not in the same tier as the laughable core monk and CW Samurai, and I'm not sure should be mentally grouped in with that unfortunate crowd. But I digress.
You excel at taking a class, stripping it down to it's bare conceptual bones, and then rebuilding it up to fit this same structural intention, only reinforced with altered or additional features that support this role. In this situation, I feel as though the Paladin is unique enough that observing other classes for ideas won't quite work properly, and I suspect this is a situation you'll have to think outside of the box.
I just now realized I'm not making any sense and better stop here while I'm ahead. I'll post again in this thread at a later time, when I'm coherent.

:smalltongue:

[T.G. Oskar]

Sorry if I skipped both of you, but the conversation went real fast for one day! I slept a bit, saw Dust's issues and dealt with them (again; I'm still surprised why I didn't thought of adding Phantom Steed!), that it would have made for a large and confusing answer.


The problem I find with the "invincible" moto for a Paladin is that practically it doesn't give the right feeling to the player in most cases.

Your thought is that the Paladin needs to survive because he will no retreat like a coward. He will face any evil enemy and risk his life to do his duty.
But he can also act as any Good character with the addition of being invincible. He can risk a bit more since he knows he has very high defenses.

It is as you said, if you don't feel fear you won't be courageous!
This will certainly apply to the players that control the character. Kind of jeopardizing the whole idea.

The solution is to force players to play a character as intended. Fluff-wise this can be done by forcing a strong "code of honor". This is nice, but you have to consider that you play as a party, not a solo character. Going into missions that noone else would go it not practical if your companions won't join you.

Instead of that I prefer a more flexible code of honor but rely on good mechanics to make the player feel the essence of a Paladin. The method is to base the Paladin's power on his courage, the way he addresses his code of honor, his faith in his role etc.
The can be done with Faith Points, with Moral Points or any other point system where you get points if you act accordingly.

For example, consider giving him a less powerful but at-will Smite Evil. You make the player focus on Evil creatures. If they are 2 Evil creatures and 5 Neutral, if you have it per encounter, he will (yes) smite 1 Evil one, but after its dead, he can go to the next "strategical" target. Which might be Neutral. Where if it was continuous you kind of "push" the player to smite Evil and then focus on the consider the strategy of the battle...

Now, consider gaining a Courage Point whenever you succeed on a save that could have killed you. Consider a Courageous point can be spend to re-roll a save with a bonus.
Compare that of getting 25% increase on your save and some immunities against death.
The first means that if you are facing near death experiences you are granted higher chances of surviving. If you not, then you are just a normal warrior.
The second means that you are generally powerful regardless the situation.

Consider giving him a bonus related on the CR being faced...

All the above are just examples on how you can make a point system or abilities that are augmented when the challenge is augmented.

In other words, unlike a Wizard which personally gains power and can use that power as she wishes, a Paladin gains power only to use it for a Higher Purpose. If she was to use it just to win a duel, that power won't be granted to her.

Concluding: You award the courage of players, you buff their character against powerful enemies, you make them focus on their code because they will get awarded if they do so.
Result: Players are more likely to play the way you describe a Paladin.

The thing is that I wanted to distance a bit from the idea of tying mechanics to something that should be roleplaying, but at a compulsory degree. Here's the main tidbit:


Chivalry is best represented as a code to assist roleplaying, and not a means towards which a paladin player character must adhere exclusively. Thus, the player of a paladin character (even that whom only takes a single level in paladin) that does not decide to follow chivalry must not be forced to do so. The code of chivalry has a rare inclination towards law, and lawful characters will not feel particularly threatened with concepts such as discipline and honor. Neutral good characters, however, may easily follow chivalry and not fall clear of their stated goals, means and ends.

As such, following the code does not imply having any mechanical advantage or disadvantage. A Dungeon Master should not punish a paladin for violating the code if it has not decided to willingly follow it. However, if the player and the Dungeon Master agree, a paladin player character may gain specific and reasonable benefits from following the code, as well as penalties for not following the code. Both the Dungeon Master and the player MUST be willing to understand that such mechanical choice should not disrupt the game in a way that it becomes disruptive; if the player seeks to use the code merely for the mechanical benefits and not because it sees it as a roleplaying aid and reasonable quirk, this alternative is not meant for said player. As well, if the player disrupts the enjoyment of the rest of the gaming group, this makes gaining mechanical benefits from following chivalry equally undesirable. Finally, a player should remind the Dungeon Master to be fair if said mechanic is to be used, and a Dungeon Master should never punish a player for choosing the paladin class by forcing circumstances in which the paladin player character will undoubtedly violate the code.

First bolded section is really the idea behind it: one of the key problems with Paladins is that they are a huge target for DMs who are interested in seeing them fall. Most of the discussions regarding Paladins normally degenerate into a discussion of their code of conduct. Thus, instead of a vanilla code of conduct, I went for the code that was supposed to inspire knighthood; Chivalry. However, I decided that it would be optional, and mostly a roleplaying trait rather than a mechanical trait. The second bolded section stresses that point: if to play an awesome class you have to follow a straight and narrow code that has a multitude of positive and negative interpretations but such an amount that varies a lot with each DM, and the end result is punishing, you're limiting the class to people who are probably thespians or philosophers or highly experienced in roleplaying, instead of going for those who may want to use the class but are starting on RPing, or that probably don't care much about RPing at all (bizarre notion, I know, but bear with me on that one). The italic section ties to the bold sections above, but gives a strong exhortation; if the DM allows the Pally's player to follow a code, don't do it so that you punish him (or her).

The last bold section, though, states that if you desire, you could tie this to a mechanical boon, which comes in the form of extra smites, Faith points and whatnot. I did something similar with the Retooled Samurai and Bushido, where you could ascribe a mechanic of extra ki if you followed particularly well the precepts of the Way of the Warrior. In that same regard, you could give a similar mechanic to the Paladin, probably tying up the Faith point system from Complete Divine on that regard, and expanding the use of such Faith points to power up class abilities. However, I would like this to remain optional, because thus far I intend to keep the Paladin on a "safe zone" where most of the stuff it has already has a 3.5 counterpart.


I like the Paladin, a lot. I haven't looked at blackguard yet, but I assume it's more or less an evil copy of what you did with the Paladin. I'll give it a more thorough look over tomorrow to confirm/deny that.

It's actually an evil copy, but it has its few nice things. Once I post the Justiciar and the Anarch, I intend to post a chassis and explain how you can basically turn all 4 classes into a single, over-encompassing class or divide that in 8 different classes which are restricted to a single alignment, using a same chassis amongst them.


A couple of comments just at first glance:
-Permanent flight seems to come a few levels too late. This may be offset by flight coming once per encounter at 14, but I see permanent flight as something more along the lines of a 15-16th level ability, not 19.

That's because of how the class progression works. Originally, levels 9, 14 and 19 were dead levels, which had no ability to progress. What I did was to give an ability that would enhance their movement, probably later that other classes but that still was useful enough. I had the idea to make flight permanent as the culmination of said ability, but at level 14 it would have made for a pretty powerful ability and it would have left level 19 orphaned in that sense. So, I made that compromise, with level 19 having an unique ability that was powerful enough so as to prevent making it a dead level. That most perma-flight classes grant such ability at those levels (except Warlock, which grants perma-flight at level 6; Favored Soul and Dragon Shaman grant it at around those levels tho) gave it a sort of precedent on that regard. Ideally, I could give them (if I were to keep the ability; if Dust answers back I might generate a better ability that justifies that bizarre progression) perma-flight at 14th level and improved flight at 19th level, but that would be going a bit too far. And again; not everybody seems to like an individual form of flight.


-The first improved smite comes too early. It makes for a pretty jarring progression. You get smite, 4 levels later it improves, then it's another 10 levels before it improves again. The abilities are pretty strong for twice an encounter at level 5 besides. I'd say bump it back to 7 or 8, introducing 4th level spells to the picture makes it a bit more balanced, and it gives an overall smoother progression.

Yeah, I find it jarring as well. I could shift Lay on Hands to level 5 and Improved Smite to level 7, which would seem a much more natural progression though. I'd have to consider whether that would work, given that the Improved Smite and Devastating Smite are thematically linked with the Bez-Kismet's Curse of the Fateless (which progressed every time you gained a new use of such ability, so you had normal at 1st, Improved at 5th, Greater at 10th, Dire at 15th and Hex of Ending Death at 20th); that progression inspired the eventual Bez-Kismet progression of abilities, after all.


-I do think it would be pretty cool to allow a little more customization on the smiting. Say instead of locking them into one type of smite for life, they can choose to pick up the first level of an old one, or improve one they already have. Even the low level effects aren't that terrible, and the extra versatility may be worth it to a given paladin, especially depending on the setting they're in.

Hmm...then again...

The thing is, consider what you're asking right now with your earlier proposal. One seeks to place improved smiting after 5th level because it makes for a very strong ability, the other to allow more variety to smites. Both are good ideas, but they can be applied on a very different way.

Consider that at 1st level, you choose one method of smiting. At 5th level, you choose a secondary method of smiting. At 10th level, you advance one of the two methods of smiting you have or acquire the third, and at 15th level you can advance the last form of smiting. While it stretches improved smiting to 10th level (which is only two-three levels after the first proposal), it leads to a more natural progression. Thing is, having only three smite methods makes smiting a bit more restricted. I could add Charging Smite at 1st level as a "common" Smite method amongst all four holy warrior classes (Paladin, Blackguard, Anarch, Justiciar; in fact, I was proposing that as an Alternate Class Feature to replace the fact that you no longer have a special mount), but that wouldn't be enough. I do intend, and would like to, have a common pool of smiting methods and an exclusive pool you can only get by entering a specific class (OR, in the case of collapsing all class abilities of the four classes into one super-class, limit them by alignment). That would make the above proposals a bit more justice without fully going into maneuver territory.


-I'm not sure that the concentration check is going to accomplish what you want it to. Skill checks are usually pretty easy to pass/cheese out, and monsters typically have a lot of hit dice that lets them get pretty inflated skill checks. While a concentration check is more internally rules consistent, a more reliable effect would be making it a will saving throw or lose the spell.

The ideal thing is that 13 + character level + modifier is consistent with a skill check (d20 + ranks + modifier), because with both modifiers equal and no further bonuses or penalties, you'd have to roll a 10 to succeed, which is the general idea. I do understand that there are ways to make Concentration checks higher (Skill Focus is one, Divine Insight IIRC is another, pumpin Constitution is a third, stacking bonuses is a fourth), but ideally there should also be ways to provide penalties to those skill checks as well.

Still, not quite convinced with Will saves. Thing with spellcasters is that Will saves are expected to be just as high on spellcasters, so you're playing with the spellcaster's forte instead of something they can use against. I could place conditional penalties in order to soak the expected increase in Concentration checks against pure spellcasters. In the case of monsters that like to use spell-like abilities and have a degree of spellcasting, the case is further more difficult to deal with.

The only way I could deal with it is make it a more physically-inclined effect and force a Fort save, which plays to one of the spellcaster's supposed weakness, but again that would do nothing to monsters. The most elegant way is keep it as either a Con check or a Will save but apply conditional penalties (say, you're an LG Paladin and you face an evil spellcaster, the character gains no penalty if also Lawful, -4 penalty if Neutral Evil, -8 penalty if Chaotic Evil) to the check or save in order to make it more threatening.


-Speaking of Auras, retribution aura seems pretty strong, and particularly punishes opponents with a lot of attacks, as opposed to opponents that just hit really hard. Perhaps a cap of how much it can reflect to a given target per turn, rather than a cap per hit?

-Devotion Aura seems particularly strong, letting the paladin apply Charisma to AC and again to reflex saves (effectively allowing you to bring reflex up to a strong save as well), and also acting as a shield other spell. I see this being much stronger than say Vigor Aura, which would mostly only get used for out of combat healing, and why burn a class feature on what you can get for some cheap wands, without the half hp restriction?

In the case of Retribution, the idea IS to punish those with lots of attacks. Opponents that just hit hard are to be dealt in a different way (I'm into adding percentages, but that would be alien to D&D; still, I find making DR and probably Energy Resistance based on percentages rather than on integers makes for a much better case), but the idea is that if you hit a Paladin a lot and it hits, then the enemy gets countered a lot. The ability already has a cap, except that it applies per attack; if I were to make the damage dealt by one enemy to the Paladin cumulative per round, I'd have to increase the cap to make it fair. It still has the trouble of pounce-Shocktroopers, tho. If I were to increase the cap, what would be the proper cap tho? I find a cap sorta like Lay on Hands a bit too far, but I wish to keep the Charisma modifier as a multiplier to the cap, so that the higher the Charisma the higher the damage.

In the case of Devotion, the addition of AC and Reflex is not part of the original version; it was something I added at the moment to improve Devotion and make it a sort of Mass Shield Other spell (or, as it's meant to be known, Glory of the Martyr). I could make it so that only the Paladin's allies take benefit and not the Paladin itself, because the Paladin isn't transferring his HP damage to his allies after all.

Odd that you say that about Vigor, though; I thought it would be a strong, if not a latter, choice. Cheap wands are cheap, but there's a reason why people insist the Draconic Aura feat should grant Vigor (it IS more powerful than most of the other auras, and this one isn't based on a specific number but on Charisma). I find Vigor more powerful than Consecration, actually. But, the best way is to determine which of the auras reaches the closest to a balance point and THEN boost/lower other auras to that theoretical balance point.


-While I like what you're doing thematically with fear effects, I don't like that it makes it more beneficial to fail a saving throw vs fear than to pass it. Especially when you have such high saves. Similar issue with the courage aura, which grants a bonus to save vs fear, but then grants allies a bonus while under a fear effect.

There's a slight problem with that, because the idea of the ability is to provide a cushion to failed saves. Do recall that the benefit applies only to the source of the fear save, so it forces you to focus on the source of that fear instead of the rest of the people, of which you STILL hold the penalties.

To explain further: assume you're at level 2, with a...let's say beguiler, warmage and swordsage (just for the heck of it) fighting a necromancer and enough skeletons to complete an EL of 2 (let's say 6 skellies, which would make the group a CR of 2). The necromancer starts by casting a cause fear spell, which the Paladin fails; the Paladin will have bonuses on attack rolls and saves vs. the Necromancer, but it will keep its penalties on the skeletons, which means the Paladin is effectively goaded to fight the Necromancer in order to remove the cause of its fear. While a warmage could deal very well with skeletons (Burning Hands, Magic Missile, probably Chill Touch as a debuff and Lesser Orbs), and the swordsage could as well, the beguiler is slightly screwed with the skeletons. On latter levels, with Aura of Courage enabled, the Paladin would still be goaded to face the source of its fear, but in a situation against undead the Beguiler would still be slightly screwed (unless it's UMDing the right spells), the warmage is losing steam, and the swordsage will be on double duty against potentially stronger undead creatures, and the group might be divided.

Still, I was thinking that if a paladin is frightened or panicked, it cannot attack other enemies unless he succeeds on a Will save (as if all of his enemies had Sanctuary) except for the source of fear, which he (or she) may attack freely. That would make failing a fear save still dangerous, but less terrible than what would really happen and still thematically effective.


-I'd kind of like to see Lay On Hands become a bit more powerful, or at least have some minor recharge, becoming an in combat heal that you use mid encounter to save yourself or others, but I'm not sure how you could do that without breaking the healing economy. Even giving something like half the current amount as a heal per encounter allows players to sit around after the encounter healing up with it, unless you explicitly disallow it somehow.

(5 + class level) x Charisma modifier is pretty strong enough. I could go with (10 + class level) x Charisma modifier, which is what DDO uses, since with Charisma at 14 you'd heal about 34 points at level 7, which is enough to heal a 7th level martial character (d10) for about half HP which works real well.

Thing is, Lay on Hands is really an emergency healing ability. DDO works oddly with the ability, since it forces you to spend all the points on a single blow, but grants more uses per day of the ability. 4E makes it healing-surge based, which works rather nicely (you could heal about 1/4th of an ally's HP per ally per encounter, or spend it all on the day on a full heal), but it would be rather difficult to tackle it. I dealt with Wholeness of Body by granting it a recharge mechanic, so I could allow a Paladin to expend a spell slot to recover LoH for a specific amount (based, of course, on the spell's level and probably the Charisma modifier) as a recharge method, but that would take Cure Wounds spells out of commission anyways. Got any ideas on how to tackle that (I know you might have some of them, actually)?


-Have you considered that with your changes, Charisma really has become the primary stat, and strength is really taking a back seat for the most part? I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I'm just pointing out, with a couple more tweaks, you could basically make the paladin Cha/Con focused, rather than Cha/Str, with Str instead showing up as that tertiary stat. If you intend for Str to still be a Paladin's highest stat though, it probably needs a bit more going for it than just the bonus to hit/damage, given that charisma affects basically everything else the Paladin wants to do, and a decent amount of the time the Paladin even gets charisma to hit.

Actually, that is not far from the truth. Paladin is a class that is really Charisma-intensive. The problem with Strength is that the rules really make it difficult to apply anything to Strength anyways. Adding Strength to, say, HP or something might be thematic but quite odd, and adding Strength to something like, say, spellcasting would be just plain hilarious. I really intended for the Paladin to have Charisma as it's highest stat, considering that Strength already has some solid support if you go two-hander, but if I reduce the Charisma dependency then I may end up with a stronger three-stat MAD instead of a favorable three-stat MAD (adding Strength and Charisma to a few abilities). Strength is hard to support other than dealing damage (and determining your encumbrance limit, ability to break open stuff and whatnot), so it's going to be a challenge to work with it.


Now don't get me wrong on my nitpicks, by and large I like what you did. I agree with your vision of the Paladin as a tank, and it's good to see a 3.5 class that's actually capable of fulfilling the role.

Well, considering how the concept of "tank" has changed, seeing that it fulfills the idea of tanking is pretty nice. Thanks for the deeper read, though I'd need some aid to properly tackle those issues. I do intend to work with the extended movement ability to make it a bit more flexible and try to balance out the auras with each other, though.

[Seerow]

That's because of how the class progression works. Originally, levels 9, 14 and 19 were dead levels, which had no ability to progress. What I did was to give an ability that would enhance their movement, probably later that other classes but that still was useful enough. I had the idea to make flight permanent as the culmination of said ability, but at level 14 it would have made for a pretty powerful ability and it would have left level 19 orphaned in that sense. So, I made that compromise, with level 19 having an unique ability that was powerful enough so as to prevent making it a dead level. That most perma-flight classes grant such ability at those levels (except Warlock, which grants perma-flight at level 6; Favored Soul and Dragon Shaman grant it at around those levels tho) gave it a sort of precedent on that regard. Ideally, I could give them (if I were to keep the ability; if Dust answers back I might generate a better ability that justifies that bizarre progression) perma-flight at 14th level and improved flight at 19th level, but that would be going a bit too far. And again; not everybody seems to like an individual form of flight.

I can kind of agree with the wings not really fitting that generic thematic paladin appeal in the same way other features do, however I agree with you that the wings are the easiest and most universal way to get flight. Other options such as a mount aren't going to be always available.

What if you made the fight into a feat that could only be taken with one of your Paladin bonus feats, but gave a smite option that can effectively ground an enemy (this works well if you go with what you were speculating on a bit later in your post where you get a different type of smite every so often as well as an increase effectiveness at a different level. If you don't go with that ignore this proposal). This way the Paladin can contribute in fights against flying opponents rather than by going to them, by bringing them down to him.

Another possibility is rather than making it a class feature is just giving Air Walk as a Paladin spell a spell level or two earlier. If you make it a 3rd level spell, a Paladin could pick it up and be air walking at 11th level onward.




Yeah, I find it jarring as well. I could shift Lay on Hands to level 5 and Improved Smite to level 7, which would seem a much more natural progression though. I'd have to consider whether that would work, given that the Improved Smite and Devastating Smite are thematically linked with the Bez-Kismet's Curse of the Fateless (which progressed every time you gained a new use of such ability, so you had normal at 1st, Improved at 5th, Greater at 10th, Dire at 15th and Hex of Ending Death at 20th); that progression inspired the eventual Bez-Kismet progression of abilities, after all.
Hmm...then again...

Okay, I haven't read your Bez-Kismet class, but you described it as progressing every 5 levels. What you're talking about here still cuts the Paladin off at 15, though it is still a cleaner progression.

What if you had:
1-First Smite
5-Pick up second Smite
10-Improved First or second Smite
15-Pick up third smite, improve the smite you had before that wasn't already improved
20-Improve one of the three smites


Basically this gives a Paladin a 3rd, 2nd, and 1st level smite, or 3 2nd level smites.

You'd have to introduce 2-3 more options to make sure they're varied, but between a Charging Smite and a Grounding Smite, you already have 2 options here, I'm sure we could brainstorm for more if needed.


The ideal thing is that 13 + character level + modifier is consistent with a skill check (d20 + ranks + modifier), because with both modifiers equal and no further bonuses or penalties, you'd have to roll a 10 to succeed, which is the general idea. I do understand that there are ways to make Concentration checks higher (Skill Focus is one, Divine Insight IIRC is another, pumpin Constitution is a third, stacking bonuses is a fourth), but ideally there should also be ways to provide penalties to those skill checks as well...

Well there's two big things that will throw this off:
1) An item of +Concentration is relatively cheap and easy to get, and will take this from a 50% ability to a 0% ability.
2) Monsters with high HD will laugh at you. When you're level 10 fighting the thing with 20 HD and it has 23+con as its base concentration check, it's really going to suck.

I understand your problem with saving throws, but they're generally harder to cheese than a skill check. A straight up ability check would be good. Make them roll a con check against 10+charisma mod, and it should balance out all right, though it will be relatively harsh vs NPC casters compared to monster casters.


In the case of Retribution, the idea IS to punish those with lots of attacks. Opponents that just hit hard are to be dealt in a different way (I'm into adding percentages, but that would be alien to D&D; still, I find making DR and probably Energy Resistance based on percentages rather than on integers makes for a much better case), but the idea is that if you hit a Paladin a lot and it hits, then the enemy gets countered a lot....

I'm just thinking, multiattacking is already a pretty weak effect, and this discourages it further. It's also a pretty huge amount of damage you are dealing, off turn. I mean even on the low end you're looking at reflecting 20-25 damage per hit. By level 20 you're looking at 50 damage per hit. And this applies to the entire party, not just you. The closest effect to this I can think of only reflects half the damage done to a single person, and even that is pretty wicked.

Reflective damage really doesn't need to be that high to be impressive. You could give this a flat cap of cha mod damage per hit, or cha mod x 5 per enemy per turn, and it would still be a good ability.



In the case of Devotion, the addition of AC and Reflex is not part of the original version; it was something I added at the moment to improve Devotion and make it a sort of Mass Shield Other spell (or, as it's meant to be known, Glory of the Martyr). I could make it so that only the Paladin's allies take benefit and not the Paladin itself, because the Paladin isn't transferring his HP damage to his allies after all.

That seems like a reasonable solution.


Odd that you say that about Vigor, though; I thought it would be a strong, if not a latter, choice. Cheap wands are cheap, but there's a reason why people insist the Draconic Aura feat should grant Vigor (it IS more powerful than most of the other auras, and this one isn't based on a specific number but on Charisma). I find Vigor more powerful than Consecration, actually. But, the best way is to determine which of the auras reaches the closest to a balance point and THEN boost/lower other auras to that theoretical balance point.


First, I will say I was considering from a higher level perspective than low level. At the earliest level you can get it, 3rd, Vigor is really strong. Fast healing 3-4 at that level is a really potent effect that will save lives, time, and money. The problem is Fast Healing 10 at level 20 is nowhere near as potent. At this level an in combat heal that isn't at least 150-200 hp is negligible, and the cleric should have mass vigor persisted on the party to take care of out of combat healing, or you should have enough wands of vigor to take care of all of the out of combat healing.

Just as a concept vigor doesn't scale well with level. Maybe if you tacked on a rider effect, like all allies below 50% hp receive a percentage extra hp when healed. While you won't be healing a lot yourself, your Cleric will love you when he's tossing out those important heals and they're that much more effective. I'm thinking like a 33-50% bonus.

As to Consecration being weaker... well it is situationally. At low levels yes it is weaker. The difference is since it provides a bonus to a class feature, it remains as relevant at high levels as at low levels, and its benefits against undead aren't terrible, just not really strong. It could probably do with being brought up a little more, either to be more generally useful, or to be stronger within its niche.



(5 + class level) x Charisma modifier is pretty strong enough. I could go with (10 + class level) x Charisma modifier, which is what DDO uses, since with Charisma at 14 you'd heal about 34 points at level 7, which is enough to heal a 7th level martial character (d10) for about half HP which works real well.

Thing is, Lay on Hands is really an emergency healing ability. DDO works oddly with the ability, since it forces you to spend all the points on a single blow, but grants more uses per day of the ability. 4E makes it healing-surge based, which works rather nicely (you could heal about 1/4th of an ally's HP per ally per encounter, or spend it all on the day on a full heal), but it would be rather difficult to tackle it. I dealt with Wholeness of Body by granting it a recharge mechanic, so I could allow a Paladin to expend a spell slot to recover LoH for a specific amount (based, of course, on the spell's level and probably the Charisma modifier) as a recharge method, but that would take Cure Wounds spells out of commission anyways. Got any ideas on how to tackle that (I know you might have some of them, actually)?

LoH is another one of those abilities that just doesn't scale with level. I'm going to once again compare it to the spell heal. A single spell slot is getting you 110-200 HP from level 11 onwards.

A Paladin with 30 Charisma at level 20 is healing 250 hit points per day with his lay on hands. So he can get slightly more out of it than your run of the mill 6th level spell slot, which is pretty pathetic for a class feature. On the other hand, back at level 7, where your 19 Charisma Paladin is healing 48 HP is looking pretty pro, because his competition there is a 4th level spell, Cure Critical Wounds, which will heal for on average 25. Sure the cleric will still heal more over the day, but when the Paladin drops his heal, he feels awesome even if he can't do it again.

By the time you hit level 11, you've probably got a good 22 Charisma, and are healing 96 hit points per day with this. On the other hand, the Cleric now drops heal for 110 hit points. Lay on Hands from this point onwards no longer seems special.

I'd give it a progression that comes around level 10-12 that lets it be recharged. Honestly, I'm a fan of it being a once per encounter heal, but if you prefer to have expenditure, letting the Paladin sacrifice spell slots to expand it is good. You say this could effectively remove healing spells off the Paladin's spell list, I say that this is probably a good thing, since the Paladin is now a spontaneous caster with a limited spells known list, it's probably best he doesn't have to waste known spells on healing spells.


Actually, that is not far from the truth. Paladin is a class that is really Charisma-intensive. The problem with Strength is that the rules really make it difficult to apply anything to Strength anyways. Adding Strength to, say, HP or something might be thematic but quite odd, and adding Strength to something like, say, spellcasting would be just plain hilarious. I really intended for the Paladin to have Charisma as it's highest stat, considering that Strength already has some solid support if you go two-hander, but if I reduce the Charisma dependency then I may end up with a stronger three-stat MAD instead of a favorable three-stat MAD (adding Strength and Charisma to a few abilities). Strength is hard to support other than dealing damage (and determining your encumbrance limit, ability to break open stuff and whatnot), so it's going to be a challenge to work with it.

Well like I said, there's two ways I see it going.
1) Encouraging con further while discouraging strength. This comes by encouraging the use of the shield, and giving some way to apply Cha to hit all the time rather than just while smiting. This way strength still gives damage, but not as much, since you're encouraged to use a shield instead of a two hander, but that's it. So it becomes a tertiary stat.

You can then bump up the value of con some by including it in a few places. For example, while str based spell casting is laughable, you could split the stat of your spellcasting (I know dirty words), and have Con give you more spells per day, while Cha gives you higher spell dcs, and maybe have con figure in a few other places (say you slow down smite progression slightly and give 1/2 con mod as a bonus to your number of smites, and key Undying Resolve off Con instead of Cha). This is much more thematic, and reinforces the idea of the Paladin as a tank. The downside is most peoples idea of a Paladin also includes a fair bit of strength. This could probably be solved with a prestige class, but maybe not.

2) Encouraging Strength further. Have strength factor into smite damage/save DCs. Possibly have it factor into smites per encounter. Possibly give the Paladin the ability to treat a one hander as a two hander as long as he is attacking with only one weapon and holding a shield, allowing him to dish out more hurt while using sword and board

[unosarta]

This is pretty cool.

As for wings being a problem; you could give the Paladin an Alternate Class Feature where they trade out the Wings for a Mount, or even an Outsider companion. Honestly, I could totally see an angel/archon following the Paladin around to help it. It could be summoned in the same way as the Wings; you could summon the mount/outsider five times per day at ninth level, once per encounter at 14th level, and it is constantly summoned at nineteenth level.

The mount would progress similarly to the way it does for regular paladins, but getting better abilities (maybe a list to choose from, like astral constructs?).

The angel/archon would be one whose CR is the Paladin's level - 5, or something like that.

The best part of this is, it also applies to Blackguards, Anarchs and Justiciars; the Anarchs gain outsiders from Limbo, and the Justiciars gain Inevitables. The Blackguard could get Demons or Devils.

In addition, the Alternate Class feature would probably give the Paladin/Blackguard/Anarch/Justiciar Knowledge (the Planes) replacing another skill, or something like that.

Thoughts?

[T.G. Oskar]

I can kind of agree with the wings not really fitting that generic thematic paladin appeal in the same way other features do, however I agree with you that the wings are the easiest and most universal way to get flight. Other options such as a mount aren't going to be always available.

What if you made the fight into a feat that could only be taken with one of your Paladin bonus feats, but gave a smite option that can effectively ground an enemy (this works well if you go with what you were speculating on a bit later in your post where you get a different type of smite every so often as well as an increase effectiveness at a different level. If you don't go with that ignore this proposal). This way the Paladin can contribute in fights against flying opponents rather than by going to them, by bringing them down to him.

Another possibility is rather than making it a class feature is just giving Air Walk as a Paladin spell a spell level or two earlier. If you make it a 3rd level spell, a Paladin could pick it up and be air walking at 11th level onward.

Torn between lowering Air Walk (which is a nice trick, because it allows for typical charging) or turning the 9th/14th/19th abilities into a set of supernatural abilities for extended movement.

Air Walk as a 2nd level spell is nifty, and even as a 3rd level spell is still useful, but I find actual flight much more efficient in that purpose. On the other hand, giving actual flight as one of the established options for a 9/14/19 ability might work well.

Though, I could simply combine both. Air Walk at 3rd level and a class ability at level 4 an extended movement class ability which could combine either flight, mount, or for those who don't want flight a lesser divine servant; that could also serve as the anchor for Divine Spirit ACF from Dungeonscape which is pretty awesome. I could add one or two more things to make it a "choose your own divine boon" class ability, which should provide more options, but keep it at a supernatural degree granting abilities that couldn't be easily replicated by magic.


Okay, I haven't read your Bez-Kismet class, but you described it as progressing every 5 levels. What you're talking about here still cuts the Paladin off at 15, though it is still a cleaner progression.

What if you had:
1-First Smite
5-Pick up second Smite
10-Improved First or second Smite
15-Pick up third smite, improve the smite you had before that wasn't already improved
20-Improve one of the three smites


Basically this gives a Paladin a 3rd, 2nd, and 1st level smite, or 3 2nd level smites.

You'd have to introduce 2-3 more options to make sure they're varied, but between a Charging Smite and a Grounding Smite, you already have 2 options here, I'm sure we could brainstorm for more if needed.

The Bez-Kismet is basically a Hexblade using the Paladin chassis, but instead of a smite it keeps the Hexblade's Curse, which is renamed "Curse of the Fateless". It's basically a class ability that works as a swift-action Bestow Curse, but that improves with level; at first it only provides penalties to attack rolls, saves, skill checks and ability checks, at level 5 it extends the level 1 trait and adds penalties to ability scores, at level 10 it extends the level 1 and 5 traits and adds the percentage chance of denying enemy actions, and at level 15 it upgrades into a swift action Greater Bestow Curse. Hex of Ending Death is basically a save-or-die activated by the character against a cursed target.

In the case of the Paladin, Blackguard, Justiciar, Anarch and general "holy warrior" chassis, the idea should be to make three general abilities, and three alignment-exclusive abilities for a total of 15 different abilities, of which a character can only choose 6 in total. In order to make this easier to see, I'll make a table with all abilities, plus Charging and Grounding:

First TierSecond TierThird Tier
Blinding (Pal)Fort save or blind (dazzle on success), 2x vs. light-sensitive creaturesPerma-blind on failed save (temp. blind on success), 2x on undead, 3x vs light-sensitive creaturesFort save or death (undead only)
Resounding (Pal)AoE Smite damage (Ref negates; target always takes full damage) + deafness (automatic on target; Reflex negates); 2x on sonic-vulnerableAoE Smite damage (Ref half; target always takes full dmg.), knockback (automatic on target; Reflex negates)AoE Smite + Str mod. damage (cannot be evaded); 3x vs. sonic-vulnerable, ignores hardness
Stunning (Pal)Will save or stun (daze on success)Will save or held (stun on success), apply to undead and constructsIgnore resistance to stun
Terrifying (Blk)Will save or panicked (shaken on success), extra damage on frightened or panicked creaturesIgnore resistance to fearWill save or die
Vicious (Blk)2x smite damage, take damage equal to class levelAoE smite damage (Ref negates)+2 Smite damage per HP expended
Weakening (Blk)Fort save or 1 Str/Con damage (negative energy damage on save); fatiguedFort save or 1d3 Str/Con damage, ignore resistance to ability damage; exhaustionFort save or 1d6 Str/Con drain and nausea (1 Str/Con dmg on success)
Deterrent (Jus)Will save or penalty to attack rolls, AC, saves, skill and ability checksWill save or 50% chance to forfeit action (penalties on success)Will save or retributive damage
Incapacitating (Jus)Fort save or stun (daze on success); ignore resistance to stunDeny mental actions on stunFort save or 1d6 Dex damage and stun (entangle and daze on success)
Retributive (Jus)2x smite damageAoE smite damage (Ref negates)Damage ignores Evasion
Confounding (Anh)Will save or confuse (reduced to 1 round on success)Will save or 1 Int/Wis/Cha damageWill save or 1d3 Int/Wis/Cha damage; ignore immunities to confusion or mind-affecting
Disruptive (Anh)Fort save or sicken; penalty increases with class level, ignore resistance to sicknessIgnore DR and hardnessFort save or 3x smite damage
Entangling (Anh)Ref damage or entangled; DoT damage while entangledAoE entangle and DoT effect (Ref save negates)AoE slow and DoT effect (entangled on success)
Charging (Com)Free bull rush2x smite damagePounce
Grounding (Com)?Deny flight??
? (Com)???

What I intend to do is make Charging Smite, "Grounding" Smite and whichever 3rd ability there is ACFs that replace smite progression at 1st level, where you can elect to choose the first tier of any one of these smites at any level, and enable Tier 2 and Tier 3 progress of each smite. If there was a super-chassis that reunited Paladin, Blackguard, Anarch and Justiciar, they would stop being ACFs and be part of the smite list.

Hopefully that'll make it easier to understand what I'm looking at on all smites. Some are redundant in a way (Vicious and Retributive are pretty much similar except on the latter benefit; Incapacitating and Stunning are also very similar), but that's expected since they're meant for different classes. The Justiciar and the Anarch have unique forms of smite, actually (Justiciar can use their smite abilities as part of a melee attack or on their own; Anarch can actually randomize their smite and gain a better benefit).


Well there's two big things that will throw this off:
1) An item of +Concentration is relatively cheap and easy to get, and will take this from a 50% ability to a 0% ability.
2) Monsters with high HD will laugh at you. When you're level 10 fighting the thing with 20 HD and it has 23+con as its base concentration check, it's really going to suck.

I understand your problem with saving throws, but they're generally harder to cheese than a skill check. A straight up ability check would be good. Make them roll a con check against 10+charisma mod, and it should balance out all right, though it will be relatively harsh vs NPC casters compared to monster casters.

That's why I was thinking about conditional penalties, to soften their checks up. Recall that this works on both skill checks and saves, so whichever ends up the winner can work this up. That would also alter the Bez-Kismet, since it has a pretty similar ability as the Paladin and Blackguard do.


I'm just thinking, multiattacking is already a pretty weak effect, and this discourages it further. It's also a pretty huge amount of damage you are dealing, off turn. I mean even on the low end you're looking at reflecting 20-25 damage per hit. By level 20 you're looking at 50 damage per hit. And this applies to the entire party, not just you. The closest effect to this I can think of only reflects half the damage done to a single person, and even that is pretty wicked.

Reflective damage really doesn't need to be that high to be impressive. You could give this a flat cap of cha mod damage per hit, or cha mod x 5 per enemy per turn, and it would still be a good ability.

Most of these abilities usually work as an extension of a shield, so I might make Retributive Aura probably reflect Cha mod. damage per hit but add a bonus based on the worn shield (probably 2x with light shields, 3x with heavy shields, 4x on tower shields) for a single hit, AND deny this benefit to users of animated shields. That should make Retributive Aura weaker, but also benefit shield users who could use that buff (to make S&B more useful).


First, I will say I was considering from a higher level perspective than low level. At the earliest level you can get it, 3rd, Vigor is really strong. Fast healing 3-4 at that level is a really potent effect that will save lives, time, and money. The problem is Fast Healing 10 at level 20 is nowhere near as potent. At this level an in combat heal that isn't at least 150-200 hp is negligible, and the cleric should have mass vigor persisted on the party to take care of out of combat healing, or you should have enough wands of vigor to take care of all of the out of combat healing.

Just as a concept vigor doesn't scale well with level. Maybe if you tacked on a rider effect, like all allies below 50% hp receive a percentage extra hp when healed. While you won't be healing a lot yourself, your Cleric will love you when he's tossing out those important heals and they're that much more effective. I'm thinking like a 33-50% bonus.

Hmm...maybe extend LoH's reach while under the Vigor aura, as well as Cure Wounds spells? With Battle Blessing feat, you could provide an ally with a Cure Serious Wounds as a swift action without the need to move.

Though, I feel a larger rider effect is needed. Not on percentages, though; maybe add (class level + Cha mod) to all healing spells and effects (except fast healing and regeneration) while under the Vigor aura. It's not percentage based, but at 11th level with 20-22 Cha (roughly at the moment Cleric gets Heal) that's a +16-+17 to the added heal, and same for the Crusader's healing strikes (not to mention Vigor Aura + Martial Spirit will work nicely). Experimenting with percentages should come for later, though I'd go with (5 x Cha)% bonus.


As to Consecration being weaker... well it is situationally. At low levels yes it is weaker. The difference is since it provides a bonus to a class feature, it remains as relevant at high levels as at low levels, and its benefits against undead aren't terrible, just not really strong. It could probably do with being brought up a little more, either to be more generally useful, or to be stronger within its niche.

Hmm...maybe add Cha to damage against undead creatures? It boosts it up a little more, but it still remains on the niche. Add Charisma to damage against evil creatures expands its niche, but still not much. Perhaps add Cha to damage against evil creatures, 1/2 Cha on saving throw DCs against evil creatures and Cha to turning effects? That would make everyone benefit quite a lot, but I'm wary about going full Cha on saving throw DCs because that would make SoDs very powerful while a Paladin is there. I really have to consider what to upgrade in this case.


LoH is another one of those abilities that just doesn't scale with level. I'm going to once again compare it to the spell heal. A single spell slot is getting you 110-200 HP from level 11 onwards.

A Paladin with 30 Charisma at level 20 is healing 250 hit points per day with his lay on hands. So he can get slightly more out of it than your run of the mill 6th level spell slot, which is pretty pathetic for a class feature. On the other hand, back at level 7, where your 19 Charisma Paladin is healing 48 HP is looking pretty pro, because his competition there is a 4th level spell, Cure Critical Wounds, which will heal for on average 25. Sure the cleric will still heal more over the day, but when the Paladin drops his heal, he feels awesome even if he can't do it again.

By the time you hit level 11, you've probably got a good 22 Charisma, and are healing 96 hit points per day with this. On the other hand, the Cleric now drops heal for 110 hit points. Lay on Hands from this point onwards no longer seems special.

I'd give it a progression that comes around level 10-12 that lets it be recharged. Honestly, I'm a fan of it being a once per encounter heal, but if you prefer to have expenditure, letting the Paladin sacrifice spell slots to expand it is good. You say this could effectively remove healing spells off the Paladin's spell list, I say that this is probably a good thing, since the Paladin is now a spontaneous caster with a limited spells known list, it's probably best he doesn't have to waste known spells on healing spells.

Hmm...1/encounter burst heal? Interesting: that would imply I'd have to improve the Monk's Wholeness of Body and the Hands of a Healer (from the Retooled Healer) to apply to this, tho. Remember that I want LoH to be similar to WoB, less than Touch of Vitality, and because Hands of a Healer is basically a just-as-strong ToV, I need to upgrade all of those in order to upgrade LoH without fear. Still, I could simply make LoH different, keep it (class level x Cha mod) and make it 1/encounter. It would break healing economy, though, if the amount of battles extend the number of dedicated spell slots a Cleric has for Heal (and will make Paladin LoH relevant up until 17th level when Mass Heal comes into play).

Well like I said, there's two ways I see it going.
1) Encouraging con further while discouraging strength. This comes by encouraging the use of the shield, and giving some way to apply Cha to hit all the time rather than just while smiting. This way strength still gives damage, but not as much, since you're encouraged to use a shield instead of a two hander, but that's it. So it becomes a tertiary stat.

You can then bump up the value of con some by including it in a few places. For example, while str based spell casting is laughable, you could split the stat of your spellcasting (I know dirty words), and have Con give you more spells per day, while Cha gives you higher spell dcs, and maybe have con figure in a few other places (say you slow down smite progression slightly and give 1/2 con mod as a bonus to your number of smites, and key Undying Resolve off Con instead of Cha). This is much more thematic, and reinforces the idea of the Paladin as a tank. The downside is most peoples idea of a Paladin also includes a fair bit of strength. This could probably be solved with a prestige class, but maybe not.

2) Encouraging Strength further. Have strength factor into smite damage/save DCs. Possibly have it factor into smites per encounter. Possibly give the Paladin the ability to treat a one hander as a two hander as long as he is attacking with only one weapon and holding a shield, allowing him to dish out more hurt while using sword and board

Strength factors into smite damage already (you still add your Strength to all attacks, and smite is an attack, hence you add Strength to your smites), and it'll be a bit hard to add that into save DCs. Treating a 1-hander as a 2-hander is something I'd rather deal on the actual rules instead of as part of a class, since I find S&B upgrading a factor of feats and changes to the rules; I can add specific stuff that could base off a shield, but it should be something you expect from a Paladin.

Con, on the other hand...I wanna keep Cha as a primary stat and Con/Str as a choice you could get. I was actually thinking, since Dex is meant to be a dump stat, to make Con add to AC instead of Dex, which already has precedent; that should make Con a bit more important. I could decide, if I wanted, to make that ability "add your Strength or Constitution to AC, whichever is highest, instead of your Dexterity modifier" ability, maybe make it an early-level class ability (though it adds to the dip-tastiness). Unyielding Resolve/Undying could also be 10 + 1/2 character level + Cha mod + highest of Con or Str modifier. That allows application of Constitution and/or Strength into more stuff, making those who wish to get more Con or more Str think of it as their secondary or tertiary options, while keeping Dex, Int and Wis as dump stats (or making Wis/Con/Str as their main stats with Serenity/Intuition). It's pretty small but should lead into improvements upon the class.


This is pretty cool.

As for wings being a problem; you could give the Paladin an Alternate Class Feature where they trade out the Wings for a Mount, or even an Outsider companion. Honestly, I could totally see an angel/archon following the Paladin around to help it. It could be summoned in the same way as the Wings; you could summon the mount/outsider five times per day at ninth level, once per encounter at 14th level, and it is constantly summoned at nineteenth level.

The mount would progress similarly to the way it does for regular paladins, but getting better abilities (maybe a list to choose from, like astral constructs?).

The angel/archon would be one whose CR is the Paladin's level - 5, or something like that.

The best part of this is, it also applies to Blackguards, Anarchs and Justiciars; the Anarchs gain outsiders from Limbo, and the Justiciars gain Inevitables. The Blackguard could get Demons or Devils.

In addition, the Alternate Class feature would probably give the Paladin/Blackguard/Anarch/Justiciar Knowledge (the Planes) replacing another skill, or something like that.

Thoughts?

I mentioned it above, and it really seems that the Hero's/Fiendish Wings ability should become something along these lines. Wings, Mount or Servant, probably with a fourth ability for those who don't want any of the three AND key off Divine Spirit as an ACF for all four classes from this ability, so you get 5 options). I'm still with the idea of a Phantom Steed-esque special mount, which progresses differently, sorta like the idea with Astral Constructs so that you get an aquatic mount, a flying mount and even a burrowing mount which resemble animals you'd expect. So, you'd get Wings, Astral Mount, Lesser Servant, Divine Spirit and a fifth ability that could cover 4th, 9th, 14th and 19th level, and which would apply in their own way upon the four classes.

Though, it may conflict with the amount of space I have for all classes. Paladin has little problem, since I could just shift the latter class abilities into the second page and extend the ability a bit more, but if I were to make it specific for each class, Blackguard has only one page (50,000 characters) worth of info so I have to format the ability to be concise for that class, and also Anarch and Justiciar.

Wow, all these changes, and I still haven't posted Anarch, Justiciar OR the improved PrCs...

[unosarta]

I mentioned it above, and it really seems that the Hero's/Fiendish Wings ability should become something along these lines. Wings, Mount or Servant, probably with a fourth ability for those who don't want any of the three AND key off Divine Spirit as an ACF for all four classes from this ability, so you get 5 options). I'm still with the idea of a Phantom Steed-esque special mount, which progresses differently, sorta like the idea with Astral Constructs so that you get an aquatic mount, a flying mount and even a burrowing mount which resemble animals you'd expect. So, you'd get Wings, Astral Mount, Lesser Servant, Divine Spirit and a fifth ability that could cover 4th, 9th, 14th and 19th level, and which would apply in their own way upon the four classes.
That fifth ability could be something like a weapon that is tied to the Paladin. The Paladin could make his smites even more effective when they are channeled through this weapon, and it would gain in power as he levels. You could, in fact, give him a list of options here too, for different abilities that all make sense for a Paladin's weapon (I.E. holy, sacred flame, undead smiting, demon smiting, etc etc). If the weapon is destroyed, the Paladin could train X hours with another to turn it into his holy weapon.


Though, it may conflict with the amount of space I have for all classes. Paladin has little problem, since I could just shift the latter class abilities into the second page and extend the ability a bit more, but if I were to make it specific for each class, Blackguard has only one page (50,000 characters) worth of info so I have to format the ability to be concise for that class, and also Anarch and Justiciar.

Wow, all these changes, and I still haven't posted Anarch, Justiciar OR the improved PrCs...

You could make them more like Alternate Class Features rather than actually a part of the main post, and just link them into the Paladin post.

[T.G. Oskar]

That fifth ability could be something like a weapon that is tied to the Paladin. The Paladin could make his smites even more effective when they are channeled through this weapon, and it would gain in power as he levels. You could, in fact, give him a list of options here too, for different abilities that all make sense for a Paladin's weapon (I.E. holy, sacred flame, undead smiting, demon smiting, etc etc). If the weapon is destroyed, the Paladin could train X hours with another to turn it into his holy weapon.

[...]

You could make them more like Alternate Class Features rather than actually a part of the main post, and just link them into the Paladin post.

I dunno...a Soulbound Weapon doesn't seem to cut it for me. It treads a lot into Soulknife and Psychic Warrior, but it makes you dependent on your weapon. I was thinking something along the lines of Heroism/Good Hope/Greater Heroism, something about your conviction flowing through you. That doesn't mean you can't go with 6 abilities.

In any case, I might just go with Wings OR Mount as the 4th/9th/14th/19th level class abilities, with Lesser [Alignment] Servant, Divine Spirit, Celestial Weapon and the Heroism thing as ACFs. I do like the idea of having lots of ACFs, and since the latter four abilities don't fit into the idea of expanded mobility while the former two do, it would result in a variety of options. Though, it would also result in a myriad of ACFs (there's Serenity/Intuition which I haven't posted yet, Hands of a Healer (which could use a different name so as to separate it from the Retooled Healer ability of the same name) and Touch of the Fallen; that would make 10 ACFs for a small group of classes.

Still, being this short, I think it's time to add the third leg of the Project, no? And this one definitely will be interesting...


JUSTICIAR
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff312/Osky-kun/final-fantasy-12-12a-1.jpg
Illustration of Judge Magisters by Yo****aka Amano.

"I am the Judge, the Jury, and the Executioner. Justice is not served except through me." - Mantra of the Order of Ineffable Justice

MAKING A JUSTICIAR
ABILITIES: Same as Paladin and Blackguard (Charisma, Constitution, Strength)
RACES: Any race that has a strong attachment to Law, a group of strong men, and a dominant Lawful deity will have ordained justiciars on their society. Of these, humans are the most notable by virtue of their varied codices of law. Dwarves, with their strong attachment to law and tradition, hold very few justiciars; those who do are usually the cudgel of Moradin and his law, a force of order to be reckoned.
On the savage lands, only the hobgoblins are suited for the responsibility of the justiciar, but they are few and far between. Some say that formians, natural inhabitants of Mechanus, hold a group of holy warriors who serve as the inspired protectors of the Law of the Multiverse; such warriors could easily be justiciars, coming from the ranks of elite warriors or myrmarchs.
ALIGNMENT: Any lawful. Justiciars represent the application and enforcement of Order, much like Paladins represent Good and Blackguards represent Evil. Usually, a justiciar will be ordained as an officer of the law in the land he inhabits, with only a few occasions having the justiciar be a warrior of the faith or a defender of absolute Law much like an inevitable would.
STARTING GOLD: As PHB Paladin
STARTING AGE: As PHB Paladin

Class Skills
The justiciar class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis) and Use Rope (Dex)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Use Rope? Well, it's not the best skill, but still...

The skill list of the Justiciar is well-suited for investigations, hence Search and Gather Information are crucial. Adding Diplomacy and Intimidate allows for playing the "good cop/bad cop" routine, and with a high Charisma, it is definitely a given that one or both of the abilities will be highly useful. One thing they miss, and that could be added to them, would be Listen and Spot (perceptive skills) for purposes of pursuit. However, I'll leave that to whomever provides me with the strongest argument towards it.

THE JUSTICIAR



——Spells per Day——


Level
Base Attack
Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save
Special
0
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
+1
+2
+0
+2
Aura of law, neutralize, verdict 1/encounter
2
—
—
—
—


2nd
+2
+3
+0
+3
Diehard, conviction
2
—
—
—
—


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3
Sanction
3
—
—
—
—


4th
+4
+4
+1
+4
Turn/rebuke outsider
3
0
—
—
—


5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
Verdict 2/encounter, improved verdict
3
1
—
—
—


6th
+6/+1
+5
+2
+5
Bonus feat, custody
3
1
—
—
—


7th
+7/+2
+5
+2
+5
Submission
4
1
—
—
—


8th
+8/+3
+6
+2
+6
Mettle
4
2
0
—
—


9th
+9/+4
+6
+3
+6
Sanction, persecution (10 feet)
4
2
1
—
—


10th
+10/+5
+7
+3
+7
Bonus feat, verdict 3/encounter
4
2
1
—
—


11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+7
Investiture of law
5
2
1
0
—


12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+8
Severe custody
5
3
2
1
—


13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+8
Improved mettle
5
3
2
1
—


14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+9
Bonus feat, persecution (15 feet)
5
3
2
2
0


15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+4
+9
Sanction , verdict 4/encounter, devastating verdict
5
3
3
2
1


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+10
Ordinance
5
4
3
2
1


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Unyielding resolve
5
4
3
3
2


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+5
+11
Bonus feat, absolution
5
4
4
3
2


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
Persecution (30 feet)
5
4
4
3
3


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12
Judge of legend, verdict 5/encounter
5
4
4
3
3



This would be the application of the chassis for a Law-aligned class. You'll notice I highly based this on the Mega-City Judges and the Judges from the Ivalice Alliance games; characters who impart martial law and receive ordinance from their land to enable any verdict, from a mere fine to execution. Thus, you'll see most of the classes are riddled with legal terms, including the class abilities. As the mantra implies, they are no mere police.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the justiciar.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Justiciar are proficient with all simple and martial weapons plus the bolas and net, with all kinds of armor (heavy, medium and light), and with all kinds of shields.

Same as Paladin, so not much to say. Well...except they're proficient with bolas and net. You might add the lasso and mancatcher to the list; ideally, a Justiciar is proficient in capturing weapons such as those. The idea is that they are not only proficient with martial weapons, but with those weapons that allow them to capture their enemy unharmed (in case they are serving as police and not as the judge).

Aura of Law (Ex): The power of a justiciar’s aura of law (see the detect law spell) is equal to his justiciar level, just like the aura of a cleric of a lawful deity. Unlike the aura ability below, this aura is always active.

Same as Paladin, Blackguard and Cleric. Note that you don't have to follow a religion to be a justiciar; however, they do get their power from following the letter of the Law.

Spells: A justiciar casts divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric spell list plus a few spells added to the list below. A justiciar can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time.
To learn or cast a spell, a justiciar must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a justiciar’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the justiciar’s Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a justiciar can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Justiciar. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When Table: The Justiciar indicates that the justiciar gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. The justiciar does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers as a cleric does.
A justiciar casts spells the same way a bard or sorcerer does, except his spells are divine in origin and thus he may cast them in any kind of armor. A justiciar may learn (and cast) any spell on the cleric spell list (see Player’s Handbook), with the following restrictions: a justiciar may not learn or cast a spell that has the chaotic descriptor, nor he can cast spells that are opposed to his moral alignment; lawful good justiciar may not cast evil spells, and lawful evil justiciar may not cast good spells. A justiciar, however, may learn and cast spells that are not available on the cleric spell list and that are unique to him. The spells that he may cast alongside those he may already learn within the cleric spell list appear below.
Upon reaching 8th level, once per week and at every three class levels he gains, a justiciar can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A justiciar may swap only a single spell at any given moment, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the specified level.

Table: Justiciar spells known


Level
0
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
2
—
—
—
—


2nd
2
—
—
—
—


3rd
3
11
—
—


4th
3
21
—
—
—


5th
3
2
—
—
—


6th
3
3
—
—
—


7th
4
3
11
—
—


8th
4
3
21
—
—


9th
4
4
2
—
—


10th
4
4
3
—
—


11th
5
4
3
21
—


12th
5
4
3
2
—


13th
5
5
4
3
—


14th
5
5
4
3
21


15th
6
5
4
3
2


16th
6
5
4
4
3


17th
6
5
5
4
3


18th
6
6
5
4
4


19th
7
6
5
5
4


20th
7
6
5
5
5


1 Provided the justiciar has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level.

As noted above, a justiciar need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Same as Paladin...well, by now you should know the gist of it; since it's basically using the same chassis, you can see how many things will be pretty much the same.

The Justiciar works much like the Blackguard in that they have few restrictions in their spellcasting, mostly moral restrictions. The actual restrictions and added spells are seen later.

Neutralize (Ex): A justiciar may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead of lethal damage with any weapon he wields with no penalty on his attack roll. As well, he may deal lethal damage instead of non-lethal damage with weapons that deal non-lethal damage with no penalty on his attack roll.

This is basically like the Paladin's merciful ability. If you're going for capture, you may use your weapons to deal non-lethal damage; on the other hand, if you're using a weapon that deals non-lethal damage (mancatcher comes to mind), you may deal lethal force with it. Not that difficult.

Verdict (Su): The justiciar’s signature ability is the supernatural power to enforce a verdict upon a judged creature. The nature of this ability is rooted on his mundane ordinance as an officer of the law, coupled with his divine ordinance as a warrior of law. Whenever a justiciar is offering judgment, his final determination must be complied, with the responsibility that the creature has been judged fairly.
In combat, a justiciar may issue a single verdict to a creature per encounter. The justiciar may choose to issue the verdict as part of a melee attack or individually. If the justiciar issues the verdict as part of a melee attack, he adds his Charisma modifier to the attack roll. Once the verdict is issued, the creature takes extra damage and suffers a special effect.
Unless stated otherwise, a justiciar deals extra damage equal to his class level if using a melee attack, or half his class level otherwise. A justiciar may choose to deal nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage if it so desires. As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + half the justiciar’s class level + the justiciar’s Strength modifier; lawful creatures gain a bonus of +1 to the save per four HD or character levels, while a chaotic creature has a penalty of -1 to the save per four HD or character levels. A justiciar may not issue a verdict freely; on a city where law enforcement exists, a justiciar’s verdict fails if the creature has not been proven guilty. On dungeons, a road, open plains and lawless cities, a justiciar is free to issue his verdict to any opponent while in combat (except on lawful outsiders). A justiciar may use this ability even outside of battle, but only against one person at a time.

Deterrent: a justiciar’s verdict penalizes the guilty creature by reducing his capability to react. If a creature fails its Will save, the creature gains a morale penalty on all attack rolls, AC, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks equal to 1 plus 1 per four class levels of the justiciar. This penalty remains in effect so as long as the creature is in line of effect to the justiciar and for 24 hours thereafter.

Incapacitating: a justiciar’s verdict halts the creature in place. A creature that fails its Fortitude save becomes stunned for a number of rounds equal to the justiciar’s class level. Immunity to stun does not protect against the stunning ability of the justiciar’s verdict. A creature that succeeds on the save becomes dazed instead for the same number of rounds (immunity to daze protects against this effect)

Retributive: a justiciar’s verdict is physically and especially painful to the creature. A creature takes double damage from the justiciar’s verdict; if the verdict was issued without a melee attack, the creature may attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage.

At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, the justiciar may issue a verdict one additional time per encounter (or to one other creature, if outside of battle)

This would be the justiciar's version of smite. However, unlike smite, it has a very interesting difference.

When I refer to "encounter", I generally go with the idea of "whenever you're forced to roll initiative". This is important, because unlike smite, verdict can be used outside of battle. Well...smite CAN be used outside of battle, but it generally implies drawing a weapon and smiting. Verdict, on the other hand...

The main thing you'll notice with verdict is that it works equally as a smite and as an effect. With the distinction of dealing non-lethal damage, you can as a justiciar impose a verdict on just about any lawbreaker that you find, and that creature won't be slain by means of your smite. This adds a whole layer of usefulness to verdict, because it implies the divine power granted to the justiciar to impart order in civilization. You'll notice that most abilities are keyed off the application of verdict.

Oh, you will notice one thing. Verdict, unlike smite, is not limited by alignment. Lawful creatures will be capable of resisting because they generally follow the law, while chaotic creatures will have a penalty because they most likely resent the lawgiver, not necessarily because they are the most likely to commit a crime. Verdict works on the premise that the justiciar is imparting a divine punishment to someone that deserves it, and ethical alignment doesn't see whether you follow the law in other occasions or not. Justice is blind like that; it has no favorites. Well...probably a few in this case.

UPDATE: To follow the trend of the Paladin and the Blackguard, all saves are based on the Justiciar's Strength modifier. However, the benefit from alignment still stands, so you don't need to have an immense Strength if you're using the abilities on chaotic creatures.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, and every four levels after that, a justiciar gains a bonus feat in addition to those he obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. A justiciar must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a justiciar is considered to have a fighter level equal to his justiciar level -4.

Same as Paladin and Blackguard. The idea here is to reinforce their "fighter" bit, in case the addition of bonus feats seems odd.

Good Domain feats, of course, are the Law Devotion and Strength Devotion feats. Destriction Devotion is also a good one, as well.

Diehard: At 2nd level, a justiciar gains the Diehard feat as a bonus feat. He does not need to meet the prerequisites of this feat to acquire it.

Not much to say. Increased resilience.

Dangerous Offender (Ex): A 2nd level Justiciar may add his Charisma modifier to all damage rolls when wielding a shield. If he wields a tower shield, he may add the modifier to his attack rolls as well.

Same as Paladin's Protector's Might. The hardest thing was to find an appropriate term for the ability. I was THIS CLOSE to call it "Objection!", if only because the idea was pretty hilarious.

Sanction (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a justiciar channels the power of his ordinance through his body. Treat this ability as the paladin’s divine aura, except all auras are replaced as follows:

Fairness: grants morale bonuses to all allies if opponents have morale bonuses; grants penalties to all enemies if allies have penalties. Amount shifted is equal to the bonus (or penalty) or the justiciar’s Strength modifier, whichever is lower.

Fortune Stabilizing: denies luck bonuses and penalties to all creatures. Denied amount is equal to bonus (or penalty) or the justiciar’s Charisma modifier, whichever is lower.

Interdiction: reduces hit point damage of any kind dealt to allies on area (except backlash damage or damage dealt to the ally by itself) by an amount equal to Constitution modifier. Damage ignored is instead taken by a chaotic creature or a creature issued a verdict.

Punishment: deals damage equal to half the justiciar’s Strength modifier against creatures issued a verdict (see above) or opponents of chaotic alignment every round.

Retribution: when receiving a melee attack, return an amount of damage to the attacker equal to the damage received or 5 times the paladin’s Constitution modifier, whichever is lower. Damage is considered force damage for purposes of damage reduction and incorporeality.

Justiciar and Paladins share one aura ability, which is retribution, and one with Blackguards, which would be Punishment. Interdiction is pretty sick; it works like the Paladin's devotion, but instead of shifting damage to oneself, it shifts it to a specified creature.

Fairness and Fortune Stabilizing work as a neutral point between a buff and a debuff; both, of course, work mostly as buffs towards you, but that depends on whether the enemy has a bonus or whether your party has a penalty (so, assume an enemy casts Heroism; your entire party will benefit from it). Punishing an ally with a penalty can be pretty dangerous, since the creature and its allies will receive that punishment as well. Fortune stabilizing is meant to null any luck-based bonus, and it really serves as a counter to some of the Anarch's abilities (as well as Fortune's Friends, Luckstealers, Fatemakers and other luck-based classes).

One thing you might notice is that Interdiction, Punishment and Retribution work against creatures issued a verdict. This expands the option of said abilities to apply to creatures that would normally be unaffected by the auras; so, a lawful evil creature might be affected by a lawful good justiciar's sanction of interdiction, because the guilt of the enemy (or the conviction of the justiciar) allows for an exception. The idea is that this makes verdict a key ability of the justiciar, because it works also as an enabler.

UPDATE: Being partly Paladins and partly Blackguards, the Justiciars have some levity regarding their choice of auras. Thus, they get two Strength-based auras and two Constitution-based auras. No upgrade yet, but they have the caveat of working on creatures issued a verdict; probably gonna base it from that, or do it based on both shields and two-handed weapons.

Conviction (Ex): At 3rd level, a justiciar toys with those who may seek to undermine his adherence to the law. If the justiciar fails a saving throw against a charm or compulsion effect, any order that would harm an ally or violate a law grants him a second saving throw. If the justiciar succeeds on any saving throw against a charm or compulsion effect, the justiciar breaks the link but may still act as if under the influence of the creature.

If the theme behind Paladin is "courage", the theme behind the Justiciar is "conviction". A judge should, ideally, resist any type of influences that may cloud their judgment, so naturally they are more resilient to charms and compulsions. That doesn't make them immune to mind-affecting effects, but if they try to "buy" the judge, the enemy might realize the justiciar is just fooling them into believing so, and when the time comes he simply says "I have no price" and whacks them with the verdict from the...planes of Law. Since "from the heavens" only works if you're Good, of course.

Censure/Rebuke Outsider (Su): At 4th level, a justiciar acquires the ability to turn the forces of chaos and rebuke the forces of law. Treat this ability as the cleric’s ability to turn or rebuke undead, except a justiciar stuns (instead of turning) outsiders with the chaotic subtype, and rebuke outsiders with the lawful subtype. If an outsider with the chaotic subtype would be destroyed, it is otherwise banished to its home plane. A justiciar is treated as a cleric of three levels lower for purposes of censuring or rebuking outsiders. Creatures that have been issued a verdict (see above) are treated as chaotic outsiders for purposes of this ability, except they cannot be banished. This ability may be treated as turn or rebuke undead for purposes of feat, prestige class or magic item prerequisites.

Justiciar also get the ability to turn (and rebuke, as well), but this time they work against outsiders instead of undead. This is the justiciar's dispensation of divine energy, which allows them to choose and benefit from divine powers as if they had BOTH turn and rebuke undead (although alignment might be an issue).

Again, verdict rears its head on this ability, allowing you to treat creatures affected by this ability as if they were outsiders. Thus, you can turn them (effectively giving them the frightened status even if they are immune to fear), even if you're limited on the first place. This makes turn/rebuke outsider quite the powerful (and useful!) ability. Since...otherwise you'd be turning demons and slaadi anyways.

Improved Verdict (Su): At 5th level, a justiciar’s ability to issue a verdict improves.

Deterrent: creatures struck by the justiciar’s verdict may forfeit their actions. If the creature fails a Will saving throw, for a number of rounds equal to half the justiciar’s class level it have a 50% chance to act normally (or else, forfeit its move and standard actions). If the creature succeeds on the Will saving throw, it still gains a penalty on all attacks, AC, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks (as the successful effect of the verdict) but only for a number of rounds equal to half the justiciar’s class level.
Incapacitating: a creature sentenced by the verdict of a justiciar cannot use purely mental actions if they fail their saving throw against the stun effect.
Retributive: a justiciar’s verdict expands to the creature’s accomplices. All enemies (or creatures related to the target) within 30 feet of the target creature must make a Reflex saving throw or take damage equal to the justiciar’s class level; a successful save ignores the damage.

An explanation of how each ability works goes here.

Deterrent is basically applying a curse on the enemy. It works mechanically as the Bestow Curse spell (and people who have played the Bez-Kismet will recognize it as the Curse of the Fateless), except in smite form. At this moment, the ability works basically as a short-term Bestow Curse, providing two of the three curses usually provided by the spell.

Incapacitating is basically the Paladins' Stunning Smite Evil, except a bit more powerful; while the Paladin paralyzes her enemies, the Justiciar blocks their mental abilities. This basically makes them unable to talk, issue orders to animal companions, and prevent psychics from using their powers (specifically those who like Schism). They're still stunned, not paralyzed, so resistance to stun applies...or would, if the ability bypassed stun resistance so early ago.

Retributive is very similar to the Resounding and Vicious smites, in that it works as an Area of Effect smite. One of the ideas I wanted to work with was allowing the Paladin (and other classes) a smite that would allow them to deal damage to multiple enemies. This is partly inspired from the Fist of Raziel, which grants a specific ability to deal limited damage to nearby enemies, by means of a chained smite. Retributive merely works by dealing more damage than usual, but since it affects all enemies within area instead of just one, it is generally more useful than the latter two.

Custody (Su): At 6th level whenever a justiciar is using his sanction, any enemy creature within the area gets all of its speeds reduced. Such creatures’ speeds are reduced by 5 feet for every three justiciar levels. A justiciar cannot reduce a creature’s speed to less than 5 feet. If the creature escapes the area of the justiciar’s sanction, it takes an amount of damage equal to the justiciar’s character level.

Unlike Divine/Necrotic Punishment, Custody works to keep enemies where the Justiciar can deal with them. The idea is to create a sort of "difficult terrain" area, playing with the more "traditional" idea of tanking (which, oddly enough, is really closer to battlefield control than to actual tanking, or viceversa). This ability comes mostly from the Aura of Lethargy of the Bez-Kismet, except that those who manage to escape get damaged, so the idea is to remain on the area.

On that thread, a poster (don't recall who it was, but I think it's one of the people posting here; I think it might be Dust?) mentioned the idea of making Aura of Lethargy an ability that caused encumbrance instead of directly lowering speeds. In that case, that was generally difficult because Lethargy worked mostly like the Divine/Fiendish Aura or the Sanctions, based off the classes' Charisma modifier. Since in this class ability I can vary the traits, I thought that maybe causing the creature to be treated as having medium or heavy encumberance might be a deadly method of keeping them cornered, since they take damage if they escape and they are prevented from running, and some even from flying. You may determine if this is a better idea than the one mentioned above, because encumbrance also limits Dexterity bonus to AC and a few other things.

Submission (Su): At 7th level, a justiciar acquires a pool of mystical energy which can be used to heal or punish. Treat this ability as the paladin’s lay on hands ability, except that it can be used to cause damage at enemies that have been issued a verdict (see above) at a ratio of one point of damage per two points expended. The justiciar may cause lethal or nonlethal damage if it so desires. This ability has no effect on undead creatures or constructs.

Submission is basically Lay on Hands, but applied to heal or punish creatures. You can heal allies or punish marked creatures. Really, that easy.

UPDATE: With Lay on Hands turned now into burst healing (to an extent), dealing 5+your Justiciar level times your Charisma modifier on a single touch seems pretty abusive. Thus, you can only apply half of that damage, but due to how Lay on Hands works now, it can be done sparingly and not all at once. Thus, you can lay the harm all at once or sparingly alongside some healing.

Mettle (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, if a justiciar makes a successful Will or Fortitude save that would normally reduce the save’s effect, he suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells with a saving throw entry of “partial” or “half” are affected by this ability, and only for purposes of Will and/or Fortitude saves with these descriptors.

Same resilient ability as...I think I might lose count once I reveal the Anarch also has it. But I feel Mettle deserves more love than Evasion, actually.

Persecution (Ex): At 9th level, a justiciar gains the ability to move faster than the norm. The justiciar’s increase in speed is limited at first, but as he increases in levels, he gains the ability to move faster.
The justiciar increases one of his movement types by 10 feet. As a full-round action, he may change this bonus to speed between any other movement types he possesses. For example; a justiciar’s base land speed is 30 feet, but he also has a climb speed of 15 feet. At any moment, he may add his bonus to speed to either his base land speed or to his climb speed, and he may change the allocation of this bonus as he desires; thus, he may move 40 feet in land, then spend one round shifting his bonus to his climb speed and scaling with a speed of 25 feet.
At 14th level, his speed bonus increases by 15 feet. At 19th level, this bonus increases by 30 feet. This bonus stacks with any other bonus to speed, such as the fast movement class ability and the bonus provided by the haste spell.

Raise your hand if you thought I'd give wings to the Justiciar. If you did...well, I guess you might or might not be disappointed.

No, the goddess of Justice is not Nike, but Nemesis. Actually, Nemesis is the goddess of retribution, and YES, SHE HAS WINGS. But when a Justiciar is hounding a criminal, it doesn't do it on wings. If it has wings, it has wings; if it doesn't, it moves like the gale. But the idea was to provide the Justiciar with the ability of persecution like a hound, or a hunter; implacable, swift, and precise. Once the criminal runs away, the last you'd expect is a divine warrior of Law, clad in heavy armor, outpacing you. And of course, that's the idea behind this ability; Justice may not be escaped, much less retribution. You know, like...Nemesis!

So, instead of frilly wings, they get the ability to move real fast, but only to one of the creature's speeds. This means that, if the justiciar can fly and the creature is flying away, you can out-fly that criminal and verdict his criminal self into the slammer if you want to. Later on, it grants the Justiciar a speed comparable to few, possibly the Monk who might be actually able to out-run the Justiciar, but in any case few Monks exist (*wink wink*) that could outrun them. Since this ability stacks with Haste and fast movement, that generally means you can achieve speeds of around 100 ft. per move action, something that at near-epic levels isn't really unheard of.

Investiture of Law (Ex): At 11th level, a justiciar may add his Charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to Armor Class. Treat this ability as if it were the paladin’s divine grace class ability for purposes of prerequisites for feats, prestige class or magic items (if any).

Blame Law Bearer and Law Devotion for this one. Oddly enough, when you associate Law, you associate it with...AC? So, I just decided to deny them excellent saves, make them a bit different, and...well, add AC to them...as a deflection bonus no less. As a benefit, you don't need to hog Rings of Protection or cast Shield of Faith every time you start a battle. On the other hand, saves are much more important here, so you may need better Dex and Wis to compensate.

Severe Custody (Su): At 12th level whenever a justiciar is using his sanction, it may deactivate the effect and instead apply this ability. Any enemy spellcaster using a spell within the area of the justiciar’s sanction must succeed on a caster level check against a DC of 10 + the justiciar’s character level + the justiciar’s Charisma modifier or have the spell affect the justiciar instead. Spells with a range of personal are cast as if the justiciar had cast them, spells with targets are treated as if the justiciar was the targeted creature, and spells that burst or emanate from the caster instead emanate from the justiciar. If the spell discriminates between allies and enemies, the spell treats the justiciar as the caster. For all other effects, the spell is cast as if the original caster had used it. The justiciar’s custody effect remains in action while he uses this ability, as if it were any other sanction.

Unlike Divine Deterrence, Severe Custody works in a very odd way. Basically, it causes enemy spellcasters to have an insanely high caster level check against the justiciar's pretty strong Charisma modifier and get higher than 10 in order to have their spells affect somebody other than the justiciar. This hurts buffs particularly, since while spellcasters can basically cast spells before battle, those that are cast in-battle will undoubtedly end up in the justiciar's reserve. So, of course, that means they'd likely go for SoDs or aim spells to the Justiciar...which is exactly the point; the Justiciar protects his allies by absorbing the brunt of the spells. And, since the Justiciar can simply shift his aura as a swift action, it can be pretty fun to see a spellcaster blowing him (or her) self up trying to see if it would have ended on the Justiciar. It's a nice trick which, unlike the Paladin and the Blackguard, is based on caster level (which is not that hard to buff up, but still harder than skill checks or saving throws).

Improved Mettle (Ex): At 13th level, a justiciar’s mettle ability improves. He still takes no effect on a successful Will or Fortitude save that has the “partial” or “half” descriptor, but henceforth he takes only the partial effect or half the damage on a failed save.

Same old, same old.

Devastating Verdict (Su): At 15th level, a justiciar’s verdict ability acquires a powerful new effect, closely related to that of the justiciar’s original choice of verdict.

Deterrent: the justiciar’s verdict is physically damaging to the opponent. If a creature initiates a hostile action (whether physical or mental), it takes damage equal to half the justiciar’s class level. If the creature fails its Will save, it is permanent until it receives the benefit of a remove curse spell; otherwise, it lasts for a number of rounds equal to half the justiciar’s class level.
Incapacitating: the justiciar’s verdict reduces the creature’s agility. A creature that fails its Fortitude save takes 1d6 points of Dexterity damage along with being stunned; a failed save causes the creature to be entangled and dazed instead.
Retributive: the justiciar’s verdict is irresistible. Creatures that succeed on their Reflex saving throw take half damage. Creatures with Improved Evasion still take full damage if they fail their save.

And, as expected, here are the most powerful versions of the verdicts. Deterrent works like the name intends, and it's intentional that I named it "deterrent"; it forces the target to do nothing hostile or be immediately punished. This particular ability is pretty punishing, because unless it is removed (like a curse; being a supernatural ability Break Enchantment doesn't really work), it's permanent. If the DM decides, next time they fight the curse is still there, so you can lock the target down for a long time. Incapacitating diverges from Stunning by adding a degree of Dex damage to the attack, lowering their AC and Reflexes and also most of their agility-based skills. Retributive, on the other hand, works much like Resounding and Vicious in that it can't be resisted...well, it does, but not THAT much.

Ordinance (Su): At 16th level, a justiciar gains the ability to further resist the spells of chaotic creatures. He gains spell resistance equal to 15 + the justiciar’s class level, but only against spells with the chaotic descriptor or any spell cast by characters of chaotic alignment, clerics of chaotic deities, creatures affected by your verdict (see above), or chaotic outsiders.

This is basically Divine/Fiendish Resistance, which is basically a buffed-up spell resistance, but with a caveat; creatures issued a verdict are also affected. So it's slightly stronger than the others. Otherwise, same old same old.

Unyielding Resolve (Ex): At 17th level, a justiciar becomes capable of fighting even when his forces fail him, beyond where others could stand. A justiciar is never considered disabled or staggered, even if he has less than 0 hit points or his nonlethal damage exceeds his current hit point total. Furthermore, he may continue to fight even if he has less than -10 hit points, but only to an amount of negative hit points equal to 10 plus half his character level plus his Constitution modifier. Instant death effects and attacks that destroy the body still affect the justiciar if successful.

Exactly the same as the Paladin's Unyielding Resolve. As you can see, the Diehard/Unyielding Resolve combo is part of the chassis itself, and not an ability exclusive to the class. This is in addition to Mettle and Imp. Mettle, since the chassis is built for a survivalist class.

UPDATE: Now also based on Constitution, like the Paladin.

Absolution (Ex): At 18th level, a justiciar’s resolve allows him to escape the whims of fate. A justiciar never fails Fortitude or Will saving throws on a natural roll of 1. However, he may still fail if the result is lower than the saving throw DC, as usual.

As you can notice, Justiciars don't add their Charisma to saving throws. To throw them a bone (no pun intended), they gain the most advanced form of Mettle:

Immunity to natural 1.

So yeah, they can fail their saving throws, but if the DC is equal to their saving throw bonus +1, they simply can't fail their save, period.

Judge of Legend: At 20th level, a justiciar becomes a paragon of law, and his attachment to the letter of the law is rewarded. He is forevermore treated as a native outsider (unless he is already treated as one), gains the lawful subtype, and gains damage reduction X/epic and chaotic, where X is equal to half his class level.

And again, same old, same old. Except that instead of being a good or evil outsider, you're a lawful outsider. No biggie, really.

Justiciar Spells
The following spells are exclusive or enhanced to the justiciar:
1st—alarm**, checkmate’s light**, hold portal**
2nd— lesser geas**, mount**, suggestion**
3rd—dimensional anchor-, discern lies-, mark of justice-, sepia snake sigil**
4th— break enchantment-, dispel chaos-, greater command, hold monster-, lawful sword**, order’s wrath-, quest-, righteous might**

The following spells are denied to the justiciar:
3rd—meld into stone
4th—control water, poison

As you can see, the justiciar gains only a small amount of spells unlike the Paladin and the Blackguard, because there was no Lawful Whatever "Paladin"-ish class with all that support. They do get a few of the Paladin's spells, such as Checkmate's Light (the Lawful warrior's Bless Weapon) and Lawful Sword (like Holy Sword, but for Lawful!). Another thing you'll see is that the Justiciar has a good share of enchantments, INCLUDING compulsions, because...once again, they are lawful. And commanding.

As a small note; if you wish to add more spells, consider adding spells from the Paladin or Blackguard spell lists that reflect the ideals of a Justiciar; conviction, resolve, command, retribution, punishment, etc. If it has a [Good] or [Evil] descriptor tag, then it may not be as good; however, if it doesn't, you may be capable of adding that to the list. If the spell improves stuff (like a special mount, or Paladin class abilities such as lay on hands), you may also add them to the list.

Ex-Justiciars
If a justiciar is found to abuse of the powers bestowed upon him, or acts directly against the officials of law enforcement in the land or plane it visits, the justiciar immediately loses access to all of his supernatural powers, spellcasting and aura of law. He may recover these if he undergoes atonement by a cleric of a lawful deity. Unlike a paladin, a justiciar must follow this simple precept. A justiciar cannot lose his powers if he is unaware of which law is broken, and he may not be held liable for offenses to the law or the official of law enforcement without knowledge of the justiciar; a justiciar breaks his oath only if he willingly knows he has made an offense.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

...Yes, I distinctively recall mentioning, and I still stand by it, that the Paladin wasn't forced by a code of conduct. Note: that only mentioned the Paladin.

Justiciar is a different monster. They're not only soldiers of faith; they are the long arm of the law. They don't follow a code of conduct; they follow the orders to the letter. While a Paladin who is both Lawful AND Good is primarily GOOD, in the case of a Justiciar it is primarily LAWFUL. The punishment is just as hostile as before, but the restrictions aren't as harsh; going against the law can be justified at times. Generally, if a law enforcement officer is breaking the law, it's just like the guy that was issued a verdict; guilty, and definitely processable.

So yeah...of all the Paladin-ic classes, only the Justiciar has a code of conduct. But, that's what they get for being LAWFUL warriors, no? Specifically the very notion and concept of law and order.

As usual, comments are welcome. I should post the Anarch later on, and once I finish with the class, I'll revise all of the abilities; thus, any more suggestions aside those established above are welcome. I want to refine the ideas given by Dust, Seerow and all of you guys before making a change, because there are five classes that may be affected by these changes. Afterwards, I'll provide the idea behind the chassis, which would be the first time I do some meta-writing on homebrew.

[Seerow]

In the case of the Paladin, Blackguard, Justiciar, Anarch and general "holy warrior" chassis, the idea should be to make three general abilities, and three alignment-exclusive abilities for a total of 15 different abilities, of which a character can only choose 6 in total. In order to make this easier to see, I'll make a table with all abilities, plus Charging and Grounding:
...
What I intend to do is make Charging Smite, "Grounding" Smite and whichever 3rd ability there is ACFs that replace smite progression at 1st level, where you can elect to choose the first tier of any one of these smites at any level, and enable Tier 2 and Tier 3 progress of each smite. If there was a super-chassis that reunited Paladin, Blackguard, Anarch and Justiciar, they would stop being ACFs and be part of the smite list.

I get where you're going here, I'm just saying you should be able to have at least 2 different smites, if not 3, which lets you give a steadier smite progression, and doesn't lock the paladin in so harshly. ie a Paladin who picks up Resounding wouldn't be so much weaker against anything not undead, since they could still have a secondary smite to use on other evil creatures. Your comments here seem to imply that even with the extra 3 ACF smites, you'd still only get one for your career.


Most of these abilities usually work as an extension of a shield, so I might make Retributive Aura probably reflect Cha mod. damage per hit but add a bonus based on the worn shield (probably 2x with light shields, 3x with heavy shields, 4x on tower shields) for a single hit, AND deny this benefit to users of animated shields. That should make Retributive Aura weaker, but also benefit shield users who could use that buff (to make S&B more useful).


Huh? Retributive Aura is an aura... how would your shield bonus increase the damage reflected by an ally 60 feet away? This statement mostly just confused me.


Hmm...maybe extend LoH's reach while under the Vigor aura, as well as Cure Wounds spells? With Battle Blessing feat, you could provide an ally with a Cure Serious Wounds as a swift action without the need to move.

Though, I feel a larger rider effect is needed. Not on percentages, though; maybe add (class level + Cha mod) to all healing spells and effects (except fast healing and regeneration) while under the Vigor aura. It's not percentage based, but at 11th level with 20-22 Cha (roughly at the moment Cleric gets Heal) that's a +16-+17 to the added heal, and same for the Crusader's healing strikes (not to mention Vigor Aura + Martial Spirit will work nicely). Experimenting with percentages should come for later, though I'd go with (5 x Cha)% bonus.


That could work. I'd probably go a bit higher (like 2-3x cha mod), though that could potentially make low level healing spells far too efficient. Perhaps a bonus based on the level of the spell?

Ie something like increase healing done by Paladin Level + Cha + 3x spell level.

So that heal spell at level 11 gains 11+5+18 = 34 extra healing (increasing just about 30%), while a cure light spell gains only 19 extra healing (which is a far higher percentage, but less effective).

I dunno percentages are the easiest way to balance something like that, but it could be workable.


Hmm...maybe add Cha to damage against undead creatures? It boosts it up a little more, but it still remains on the niche. Add Charisma to damage against evil creatures expands its niche, but still not much. Perhaps add Cha to damage against evil creatures, 1/2 Cha on saving throw DCs against evil creatures and Cha to turning effects? That would make everyone benefit quite a lot, but I'm wary about going full Cha on saving throw DCs because that would make SoDs very powerful while a Paladin is there. I really have to consider what to upgrade in this case.


Yeah I wouldn't boost the DCs. I'd keep it a niche against undead, rather than all evil creatures, maybe expand it to Demons/Devils, and say give +cha mod in damage, and +1/2 cha to all saving throws against those creature types, making it a bit more defensive as well.


Hmm...1/encounter burst heal? Interesting: that would imply I'd have to improve the Monk's Wholeness of Body and the Hands of a Healer (from the Retooled Healer) to apply to this, tho. Remember that I want LoH to be similar to WoB, less than Touch of Vitality, and because Hands of a Healer is basically a just-as-strong ToV, I need to upgrade all of those in order to upgrade LoH without fear. Still, I could simply make LoH different, keep it (class level x Cha mod) and make it 1/encounter. It would break healing economy, though, if the amount of battles extend the number of dedicated spell slots a Cleric has for Heal (and will make Paladin LoH relevant up until 17th level when Mass Heal comes into play).


I wouldnt worry too much about it breaking the healing economy in battle. It is a once an encounter deal. I'd be much more worried about taking 20-30 minute rests to get a lay on hands on everyone between encounters, rather than burning resources, which -could- break it.

As to the other abilities you mentioned, yeah they could use a boost too. Healing Hands at least fills a different role, its ability to trade out hp for status curing is very powerful. Wholeness of body I'd personally modify to be more like a second wind in 4th edition, a once per encounter moderate self heal that boosts your defenses temporarily.


Strength factors into smite damage already (you still add your Strength to all attacks, and smite is an attack, hence you add Strength to your smites), and it'll be a bit hard to add that into save DCs.

Well I meant have it be a factor for the bonus damage for smite, above and beyond your normal strength to damage.

And how would it be hard to add it into save DCs? I don't think it's too strange to think your smite save DCs are based off strength rather than charisma. There's probably a few other powers it could easily be switched around on as well.



Con, on the other hand...I wanna keep Cha as a primary stat and Con/Str as a choice you could get. I was actually thinking, since Dex is meant to be a dump stat, to make Con add to AC instead of Dex, which already has precedent; that should make Con a bit more important. I could decide, if I wanted, to make that ability "add your Strength or Constitution to AC, whichever is highest, instead of your Dexterity modifier" ability, maybe make it an early-level class ability (though it adds to the dip-tastiness). Unyielding Resolve/Undying could also be 10 + 1/2 character level + Cha mod + highest of Con or Str modifier. That allows application of Constitution and/or Strength into more stuff, making those who wish to get more Con or more Str think of it as their secondary or tertiary options, while keeping Dex, Int and Wis as dump stats (or making Wis/Con/Str as their main stats with Serenity/Intuition). It's pretty small but should lead into improvements upon the class.

Well, without giving another boost to hit somewhere, con vs str typically won't be an even match. You can deal with a few less hitpoints, having a lower attack bonus/damage is going to hurt your credibility as a threat, and make enemies ignore you.

When I was saying con vs str I was speaking for the focus of the class as the secondary ability, because you can give class features to encourage con over strength... but trying to support both equally is going to hurt the class more than not.

Basically, you know you want Charisma to be a given paladin's best stat. So then you need to determine what you want the secondary to be. Trying to support both is going to end up adding a lot of extra if/or statements to your write up, and still won't be quite balanced. Better to just pick what you want and stick with it.

Either option will fit thematically, but I personally think emphasizing con is the better choice because there's more things you can add in that make sense (Con to AC, con to spells per day, etc.). The one downside to picking con is you really want to add either charisma or con to your attack rolls at all times in place of strength (not in addition to) to help ensure you can hit, while keeping MAD in check.

[unosarta]

I dunno...a Soulbound Weapon doesn't seem to cut it for me. It treads a lot into Soulknife and Psychic Warrior, but it makes you dependent on your weapon. I was thinking something along the lines of Heroism/Good Hope/Greater Heroism, something about your conviction flowing through you. That doesn't mean you can't go with 6 abilities.
However, given the option to change weapons, it doesn't actually make you that dependent on it. And at higher levels, you could be able to switch it out faster and faster. And honestly, melee characters are just as dependent on their weapons, and they have to spend WBL on it.

Although I do like the option of Heroism/Good Hope/Greater Heroism as well.


In any case, I might just go with Wings OR Mount as the 4th/9th/14th/19th level class abilities, with Lesser [Alignment] Servant, Divine Spirit, Celestial Weapon and the Heroism thing as ACFs. I do like the idea of having lots of ACFs, and since the latter four abilities don't fit into the idea of expanded mobility while the former two do, it would result in a variety of options. Though, it would also result in a myriad of ACFs (there's Serenity/Intuition which I haven't posted yet, Hands of a Healer (which could use a different name so as to separate it from the Retooled Healer ability of the same name) and Touch of the Fallen; that would make 10 ACFs for a small group of classes.

I honestly think that the more ACFs there are, the better. Given that ACFs widen the ability for a class to fit a character concept without needing to actually create a prestige class or new base class, they are very versatile and very useful, ACFs rock. The more the merrier.

I am assuming Serenity/Intuition make the abilities based off of Wisdom and Intelligence, respectively? You could just give them the choice at first level, with a specific ability that allows them to choose which ability score to base their class abilities off of.

[T.G. Oskar]

I get where you're going here, I'm just saying you should be able to have at least 2 different smites, if not 3, which lets you give a steadier smite progression, and doesn't lock the paladin in so harshly. ie a Paladin who picks up Resounding wouldn't be so much weaker against anything not undead, since they could still have a secondary smite to use on other evil creatures. Your comments here seem to imply that even with the extra 3 ACF smites, you'd still only get one for your career.

And I'm not going against it. The table's purpose is mostly to indicate similarities, and also to structure how your proposal could work; basically, after level 5, you could either gain a Tier 1 of (6 of the 15) smites you have access to, or advance your existing smite to Tier 2. Level 10 would probably grant only access to a second or third new smite. Level 15 would either grant access to a third or fourth Tier 1 smite, advance a Tier 1 to Tier 2, or advance a Tier 2 to a Tier 3. And, you'd probably get a similar ability on level 20 to match it up. The table is there mostly for show and specifically for comparison.

Ideally, the progression (as I would do it, based on your idea) would be:
Level 1: Choose from 1 of the 6 Smites (gain new Tier 1)
Level 5: Choose new smite (gain new Tier 1) OR advance smite to Tier 2
Level 10: Choose new smite (gain new Tier 1) OR advance smite to Tier 2
Level 15: Choose new smite (gain new Tier 1) OR advance smite to Tier 2 OR advance Tier 2 smite to Tier 3
Level 20: Choose new smite (gain new Tier 1) OR advance smite to Tier 2 OR advance Tier 2 smite to Tier 3

So, you could basically have: 5 Tier 1 smites, 3 Tier 1 Smites and 1 Tier 2 Smite, 1 Tier 1 Smite and 2 Tier 2 Smites, or 1 Tier 2 Smite and 1 Tier 3 Smite. The access to Tier 2 smites could be established at level 5 or level 10, while Tier 3 Smites are accessible from level 15 onward. Thing is, I'd like to have a solid go at it before changing four classes' smites and developing the other 2-3 smite choices as ACFs which you could acquire or replace at any level divisible by 5 (and 1st level).


Huh? Retributive Aura is an aura... how would your shield bonus increase the damage reflected by an ally 60 feet away? This statement mostly just confused me.

It's a way to make shield more relevant, even if it sounds a bit counter-intuitive. If the effectiveness of a shield exists only up to 5 feet away from you, there's no way a shield will be more useful unless it acted like a weapon, which is basically treating it like TWF except with an added feat. Mechanically, the idea is that S&B characters would have a better damage output by means of a class ability, separate from any enhancement to S&B done through feats or rule revisions. It would be harder to explain fluff-wise, but Retributive Aura is a manifestation of your faith; your shield (and specifically, the traits behind your shield) would probably...boost your resolve. The idea is, it's already getting nerfed (not to uselessness, but still a nerf), and the one who gets hit the most will be the S&B because retributive damage should be a great deal of its damage output, given that they're using a defensive item in their hand instead of another weapon or just using their hand for increased damage output with their existing weapon. Since TWF and THF vastly outgrow the damage output of S&B, they need a thematically-linked method of damage generation, and retributive damage is the closest-linked one.

I could use some better fluff, though, but if a sword-and-boarder with Retributive Aura deals no more damage than a 2-hander or a TWF character with Retributive Aura, then it won't do much to increase S&B as a fighting method, aside from increasing your AC by...1-7 points at most. While the others deal larger amounts of damage. So, while the fluff might be a bit odd to reconcile, it is possible to mechanically tie shields with increased damage output via a class ability; I did mention I wanted to increase S&B effectiveness via feats and revising the rules, because that would be the core of its improvement. Think of adding this caveat to the ability as one more boost to S&B.

Then again, it's probably because I'm pulling this off from MMOs, which don't need that explanation...or probably I just say a lot and don't explain myself real well.


That could work. I'd probably go a bit higher (like 2-3x cha mod), though that could potentially make low level healing spells far too efficient. Perhaps a bonus based on the level of the spell?

Ie something like increase healing done by Paladin Level + Cha + 3x spell level.

So that heal spell at level 11 gains 11+5+18 = 34 extra healing (increasing just about 30%), while a cure light spell gains only 19 extra healing (which is a far higher percentage, but less effective).

I dunno percentages are the easiest way to balance something like that, but it could be workable.

Hmm...good one. Of course, percentages are the easiest way, but I'm dealing with percentages in baby steps; if I were to apply percentages to everything people might get drawn away because they'd think of it as far too powerful or alien to the D&D format. I believe that DR expressed as a percentage is a quite efficient way to deal with the "DR being useless on overflowing damage" problem, but going through this without establishing how people might react to the mechanic might cause people to shy off. Thus, I'd start with an arithmetical progression before adding percentages.

Still, it's not a bad idea. It makes spells like CLW effective at low levels, while it makes high-level spells like Heal and Mass Heal very powerful. Mass Heal won't increase to a degree of over 30% its worth, but since it applies to everyone in the area, it basically stacks. It also increases the worth of Mass Cure Wounds spells as well.


Yeah I wouldn't boost the DCs. I'd keep it a niche against undead, rather than all evil creatures, maybe expand it to Demons/Devils, and say give +cha mod in damage, and +1/2 cha to all saving throws against those creature types, making it a bit more defensive as well.

Noted. Though, I'd probably make a point to make Divine Grace overlap Aura of Consecration, because otherwise the saving throws would be spectacularly high. That way, against undead and evil outsiders, allies get half of your Divine Grace bonus.


I wouldnt worry too much about it breaking the healing economy in battle. It is a once an encounter deal. I'd be much more worried about taking 20-30 minute rests to get a lay on hands on everyone between encounters, rather than burning resources, which -could- break it.

As to the other abilities you mentioned, yeah they could use a boost too. Healing Hands at least fills a different role, its ability to trade out hp for status curing is very powerful. Wholeness of body I'd personally modify to be more like a second wind in 4th edition, a once per encounter moderate self heal that boosts your defenses temporarily.


So 1/encounter, [5 (or 10) + class level] x Charisma modifier bonus would suffice? That way it works as burst healing instead of extended healing. It would be closer to the DDO version, which pretty much works 1/rest (which is the equivalent of 1/day, but given how close those rests are, it pretty much works 1/encounter), but it works as burst healing; the Cleric would be the main healer (or the Favored Soul, in that regard), but the Paladin can self-heal or heal another by touch for a large amount. I'd word it differently, though, as in "you gain a pool of healing equal to [5 (or 10) + class level] x Charisma modifier, which you can expend as you desire. This pool recharges at the beginning of each combat encounter". That way, the resource would be mechanically similar (if not stronger) than the original but it allows recharging.

Wholeness of Body as a second wind? What I've seen is either Pathfinder (expend 1 point of ki, heal your level x Wis modifier in damage) or DDO (fast healing). A save booster, on the other hand, is quite interesting. Monks are already meant to have strong saves, so that would be meant to prevent the recently-recovered HP from dropping down again. I'd make a hybrid out of it, though: work as Lay on Hands (Monk level x Wis modifier), you can spread out through the encounter, and if you spend a point of ki (because I use a ki mechanic with the Monk) while healing, you can increase your AC and saves for a small amount of time (I usually make it rounds equal to 1/2 class level). I'd go with adding Wisdom, but Monks already add Wisdom to AC and Will saves, so I might need something else (maybe Constitution?)

Healing Hands/Touch of Vitality might just be like Lay on Hands, but twice as strong. I honestly thought I had Healing Hands allow you to expend from your pool of HP to increase the amount of healing, tho. Odd one...


Well I meant have it be a factor for the bonus damage for smite, above and beyond your normal strength to damage.

And how would it be hard to add it into save DCs? I don't think it's too strange to think your smite save DCs are based off strength rather than charisma. There's probably a few other powers it could easily be switched around on as well.

It's hard to add because it would make the smite DCs quite powerful. Saves stack faster than save DCs (Ability Focus being one of the few ways you can make your smite higher), but adding two scores to the saving throw DC might just push the save DCs into "always work" instead of 50/50 split. I could, though, make the saves work with "highest between Strength or Charisma modifiers", in case someone wants to have more Str than Cha, though given that Charisma is a really important stat, Strength would have to be much higher and it would induce the bad form of MAD. Perhaps if you could dispel my worries that stacking Strength and Charisma to the saving throw DCs won't mean that anyone without good saves, Cloak of Resistance and bonuses to saves will automatically fail the save, then I might consider making the save DC of smite dual-stacking.

Though...I don't see which other powers. Most people resent Favored Soul because their bonus spells are based on one stat and their saving throw DCs are based on another stat. And stuff like Divine Grace and Unyielding Resolve work better with Con, not Str. Divine Deterrence and Divine Punishment based off Strength would be just as flimsy sounding as basing Retributive Aura off the type of shield (or lack thereof) you wear; not impossible, but weird-sounding and requiring a solid fluff backing it up.


Well, without giving another boost to hit somewhere, con vs str typically won't be an even match. You can deal with a few less hitpoints, having a lower attack bonus/damage is going to hurt your credibility as a threat, and make enemies ignore you.

When I was saying con vs str I was speaking for the focus of the class as the secondary ability, because you can give class features to encourage con over strength... but trying to support both equally is going to hurt the class more than not.

Basically, you know you want Charisma to be a given paladin's best stat. So then you need to determine what you want the secondary to be. Trying to support both is going to end up adding a lot of extra if/or statements to your write up, and still won't be quite balanced. Better to just pick what you want and stick with it.

Either option will fit thematically, but I personally think emphasizing con is the better choice because there's more things you can add in that make sense (Con to AC, con to spells per day, etc.). The one downside to picking con is you really want to add either charisma or con to your attack rolls at all times in place of strength (not in addition to) to help ensure you can hit, while keeping MAD in check.

This sounds a bit confusing, though it resembles a bit 4e class mechanics (one primary stat, choose one of two secondary stats). 3.5 can still work well if going three stats, whereas the problems exist by going 4 stats because you're straining your stats too thin. If I were to make it two-stat, then some people might protest to the idea that it focuses too much on Con or Str when what they want is to use one of the two. Ideally, Cha/Str would be better, but Str is harder to add on other abilities, as you mentioned. Keeping them split (Str for offensive abilities, Con for defensive abilities) seems like the right choice, since you could have a more offensive-inclined Paladin with Str as its secondary focus, or a more defensive-oriented Paladin with a Con focus. Cha and then Str/Con as secondary (whichever is the highest) is the ideal way, but as you mentioned, it might not be as balanced.

Perhaps it's just design vision differences. Design-wise, Strength is very hard to add, since it basically replaces Con in some extents (probably HP, Fort saves) while Con rarely replaces Strength (adding Con to attack and damage rolls is really bizarre), working better as a "defensive" stat (Con to AC is reasonable since it echoes endurance, for example; Con to bonus spells does as well because it echoes using your lifeforce to determine your spell strength or your spell accessibility). So, I would have to go Cha/Con for the class, but then I'd have troubles with those who want Strength to be the secondary score instead of the tertiary, and design-wise they'd still need good Strength to have good attack and damage rolls, which you mentioned (and again, adding Con to attack and damage is possible, but the fluff is weaker than adding any other score; adding Charisma to Strength for attack and damage rolls would conflict a bit with Smite in any case). Having Cha/Str, on the other hand, would have less trouble, but it would be harder to work with (since Strength mostly works for physical, offensive-related abilities so suddenly adding it to Strength seems odd, and that includes Reserves of Strength and Illumian sigils). And the ideal way to work with it might not just cut it.

Perhaps if you go and expand how you'd do it, it might be easier to understand (or really, make greater sense out of it).


However, given the option to change weapons, it doesn't actually make you that dependent on it. And at higher levels, you could be able to switch it out faster and faster. And honestly, melee characters are just as dependent on their weapons, and they have to spend WBL on it.

Although I do like the option of Heroism/Good Hope/Greater Heroism as well.

That's why I went with tentative rather than simply no. Paladins already get Greater Magic Weapon and Holy Sword (and Lawful Sword and Flame of Faith, as well) so they get some options regarding their weaponry. I just find it treads a bit too much in the terrain of Soulbound Weapon and specifically the Soulborn, but if it can be worked properly then it might just work as an ACF. Some people might not want a mount or the ability to fly but a pimpin' weapon with which to fight evil with.


I honestly think that the more ACFs there are, the better. Given that ACFs widen the ability for a class to fit a character concept without needing to actually create a prestige class or new base class, they are very versatile and very useful, ACFs rock. The more the merrier.

I like ACFs. A lot. They work by adding new abilities to a class without having to rewrite them from the ground up. Sometimes, rewriting the class is what's necessary, but when you want to simply expand their options, this works well. I work ACFs closer to the Unearthed Arcana method (replacing one or more abilities instead of simply a minor one) but using the PHBII method (which is concise and catchy).


I am assuming Serenity/Intuition make the abilities based off of Wisdom and Intelligence, respectively? You could just give them the choice at first level, with a specific ability that allows them to choose which ability score to base their class abilities off of.

I'd like to keep Serenity as an ACF. The idea is that I want Paladins to be Cha-focused, but give that option to those who might want Wisdom. Thus, instead of including it on the class chassis, I find ACF works better on that regard (and it saves both space on the class description and a feat slot).

BTW: Serenity/Intuition refers to the same ACF. It's just to distinguish it by alignment. A serene blackguard is truly a watch to behold, because blackguards are probably less inclined to act calmly and instead be either bullying or impulsive. That doesn't mean it's not possible. Also, allowing Charisma to be replaced by Wisdom is enough; allowing them to key off Intelligence opens a pathway to darkness.

[Lord_Gareth]

Oskar, while I like the work here, you still haven't solved a fundamental flaw - Clerics still fit the archetype you're aiming at better than the various champions do.

[Seerow]

Ideally, the progression (as I would do it, based on your idea) would be:


Yeah, that way is definitely workable. My quick write up had a limited auto scaling in place because I was worried having a bunch of 1st level smites really wouldn't be the same as having 2 3rd level smites, because while the guy with 5 level 1 smites may have an answer for everything, all of his answers are going to suck compared to what other people are doing.


Retributive Aura Stuff

Okay, so we're suspending logic here for a moment and letting shields affect this aura. (Suggestion: If you want this aura to be what makes S&B iconic for Paladins, you probably want to make all of the auras similarly rely on your shield in some way. Where your smites are your sword, your auras are your shield)

What if instead of depending on your shield type, we made it depend on your shield's enhancement bonus? At least then it seems like it's the magical part of the shield that is enhancing the aura. (And if the Paladin has Magic Vestment or whatever it is that lets a caster enchant armor with an enhancement bonus, he can gain the full bonus himself with little-no gold expenditure. If that spell is not currently on the Paladin list, it should get added. But I'm pretty sure it's a cleric spell so we should be good).

But make the retributive aura something like 3 times your shield's enhancement bonus per hit. That's enough to make it noticeable, but not enough to be overwhelming. I know you're worried about keeping competitive with a power attacker, but really, I'd focus less on that. You ARE still getting that +2-7 AC bonus, which is a huge amount in reality. If other characters are getting this bonus without actually going sword and board via animated shields and the like-get rid of the animated shields. Because really as long as those exist, you're not going to make S&B a valid playstyle.


So 1/encounter, [5 (or 10) + class level] x Charisma modifier bonus would suffice?

Yeah, I'd say 5+class level x cha mod would be enough to keep it on par. It does fall slightly behind Heal when Heal first comes available, but it eventually outpaces it, and it's at least close enough to remain relevant. If you want to make sure it stays stronger, the 10+ should do it



Wholeness of Body as a second wind?...

Going back to 4e's Second Wind, I'd make it a flat bonus to saves/ac. Like a flat +5 for the next turn or two. Not everything needs to be +stat mod, though those do scale nicely, your defenses should already be scaling appropriately with enemy attacks, so a flat +5 just slants things 25% further in your favor. Assuming you were sitting at a point where you get hit about half the time, you just cut the amount you get hit in half.


It's hard to add because it would make the smite DCs quite powerful.

Okay here's the big miscommunication. I was suggesting give smites save DCs based off strength INSTEAD of charisma, not in addition to it. Charisma still controls basically every other class feature the paladin has, and will still be valued as a Paladin's best stat, but keying smite DCs of str instead can make a solid argument for reversing those priorities for some Paladins.


Perhaps if you go and expand how you'd do it, it might be easier to understand (or really, make greater sense out of it).


Personally, I'd focus on either Cha/Str or Cha/Con like I said.

1) Cha/Str: The class stays similar to how it is now. Smite DCs get cha replaced with str. Either a class feature is added or a feat is created that allows 1.5x str with a one hander while wielding a shield. Divine Punishment/Deterrence switches to key off str mod instead. Possibly retune 2-3 auras to work off str instead of charisma where fitting.

This method is reorganizing the abilities to make str play a bigger part in the damaging role of the Paladin. Right now charisma does everything. It is your spellcasting, your damage, your saving throws, etc. Str applies to your to hit bonus, and a bit to your melee attack damage, but charisma is just doing more than it at every level. The trick here is shifting the damage back to the province of strength.

2) Cha/Con: Here we change a few more things around. With this, we play to the stats' natural strengths, and key con more towards defense. Since Cha is a very mutable stat for Paladins, we key it a bit further towards offense. You pick up a class feature that adds cha to hit in place of strb, but then divine grace and unyielding resolve get switched to keying off Con instead. Similarly, spells per day switches to con (thematic in that extra con lets him continue on longer), while spell DCs remain cha based for whatever that's worth.

Here, the Paladin is expected to have Cha as his main damage output via special abilities (the smites, auras, punishment, etc) while most of the defenses switch towards Con.





I'm saying this in place of what you seem to be angling for which is:

Charisma to almost everything like now, then a half dozen features that can apply strength or con, whichever is higher. The reason I don't like this method is either the Paladin will have lower HP than you expect and be able to hit stuff no problem, or the Paladin will have more HP than you expect, and not be able to hit anything. When you balance around just one or the other it's easy to make predictions, trying to juggle both is painful.

[T.G. Oskar]

Oskar, while I like the work here, you still haven't solved a fundamental flaw - Clerics still fit the archetype you're aiming at better than the various champions do.

I...seriously have no idea how to answer this without having my conversation devolve into incandescent plasma, but I think the point is really "Clerics have to be nerfed", not "this is a bad idea". Because, really, the concept of a Cleric can be played perfectly well by a Wizard. That's as much as I can say.


Okay, so we're suspending logic here for a moment and letting shields affect this aura. (Suggestion: If you want this aura to be what makes S&B iconic for Paladins, you probably want to make all of the auras similarly rely on your shield in some way. Where your smites are your sword, your auras are your shield)

What if instead of depending on your shield type, we made it depend on your shield's enhancement bonus? At least then it seems like it's the magical part of the shield that is enhancing the aura. (And if the Paladin has Magic Vestment or whatever it is that lets a caster enchant armor with an enhancement bonus, he can gain the full bonus himself with little-no gold expenditure. If that spell is not currently on the Paladin list, it should get added. But I'm pretty sure it's a cleric spell so we should be good).

But make the retributive aura something like 3 times your shield's enhancement bonus per hit. That's enough to make it noticeable, but not enough to be overwhelming. I know you're worried about keeping competitive with a power attacker, but really, I'd focus less on that. You ARE still getting that +2-7 AC bonus, which is a huge amount in reality. If other characters are getting this bonus without actually going sword and board via animated shields and the like-get rid of the animated shields. Because really as long as those exist, you're not going to make S&B a valid playstyle.

I'm quickly approaching to the idea that, aside from the enhancement bonuses, most of the weapon special qualities should be based on something only martial characters would have access to. Stuff like Flaming (extra damage) or Frightening (small chance of providing a status effect) should be capable of scaling, but only for those who dabble in martial arts to a definite extent. Mostly, the idea that "everyone has power; Wizards and Clerics use it through their magic, Rogues and Fighters through magic items", in that weapons and certain items worn by the less magically-adept characters end up being more powerful.

I also agree Animated Shields should go or, at the very least, nerf the Animated property into something that makes S&B viable. But note: at the very least; it's quite possible the Animated property is relegated to Artifact status or even removed, ideally.

As for the auras being based on shields: interesting concept, but might clash a bit with the idea of the chassis. I could make several interesting upgrades to the auras, in which some of the incorporated changes could apply only to shield-using characters, but most of the blackguards' auras are geared towards offense, so unless the shield is used offensively, paladins may be the only ones that use shields to improve their auras, making S&B a defining build trait of Paladins. Still, if workable, I could figure out really easily how to apply shields as modifiers to the auras, something that may make shields much more useful and also make the auras unique in their own right.


Going back to 4e's Second Wind, I'd make it a flat bonus to saves/ac. Like a flat +5 for the next turn or two. Not everything needs to be +stat mod, though those do scale nicely, your defenses should already be scaling appropriately with enemy attacks, so a flat +5 just slants things 25% further in your favor. Assuming you were sitting at a point where you get hit about half the time, you just cut the amount you get hit in half.

Hmm...interesting. Considering that it wouldn't imply adding the saves twice, and the bonus is high enough but not permanent (just enough to allow you to respond to the situation), it would make using WoB in-battle a huge save button. Of course, it would then have to be a real emergency button, so no "spread out healing" unless the ability activates the first time you use it (in order to keep stuff like Caduceus Bracers and unlikely feats such as Hands of a Healer from BoED relevant).


Okay here's the big miscommunication. I was suggesting give smites save DCs based off strength INSTEAD of charisma, not in addition to it. Charisma still controls basically every other class feature the paladin has, and will still be valued as a Paladin's best stat, but keying smite DCs of str instead can make a solid argument for reversing those priorities for some Paladins.

While not a bad idea, I'd need a bit more convincing. It's not a bad idea; in fact, it's sound, but I'd need to see it on the context of Cha/Con. Stripping away from Charisma is pretty easy, since the spellcasting and the class abilities make Charisma still relevant, but I would like to allow Con and Str to be competitive, ideally spearheading two different builds. Making smites (all smites) based off Strength instead of Charisma allows inclination towards a more offensive type of Paladin, one which values having high Strength. Since Fortitude and HP isn't so hard to achieve (Divine Grace and other modifiers make Fortitude relevant, a d12 and an item of Constitution allows for a very decent amount of HP given that you'd get 6-7 HP on average every level and even a 12-14 Con adds up real fast), something might be needed to support Con a bit more, and that could be related to defensive abilities. I can see how shifting Cha to Str in terms of design and fluff might not seem like a bad move, but if I were to go almost exclusively Cha/Str, with the high HP and Fort saves I might make Constitution a stat competing with Dexterity for the tertiary slot.


Personally, I'd focus on either Cha/Str or Cha/Con like I said.

1) Cha/Str: The class stays similar to how it is now. Smite DCs get cha replaced with str. Either a class feature is added or a feat is created that allows 1.5x str with a one hander while wielding a shield. Divine Punishment/Deterrence switches to key off str mod instead. Possibly retune 2-3 auras to work off str instead of charisma where fitting.

This method is reorganizing the abilities to make str play a bigger part in the damaging role of the Paladin. Right now charisma does everything. It is your spellcasting, your damage, your saving throws, etc. Str applies to your to hit bonus, and a bit to your melee attack damage, but charisma is just doing more than it at every level. The trick here is shifting the damage back to the province of strength.

2) Cha/Con: Here we change a few more things around. With this, we play to the stats' natural strengths, and key con more towards defense. Since Cha is a very mutable stat for Paladins, we key it a bit further towards offense. You pick up a class feature that adds cha to hit in place of strb, but then divine grace and unyielding resolve get switched to keying off Con instead. Similarly, spells per day switches to con (thematic in that extra con lets him continue on longer), while spell DCs remain cha based for whatever that's worth.

Here, the Paladin is expected to have Cha as his main damage output via special abilities (the smites, auras, punishment, etc) while most of the defenses switch towards Con.

I'm saying this in place of what you seem to be angling for which is:

Charisma to almost everything like now, then a half dozen features that can apply strength or con, whichever is higher. The reason I don't like this method is either the Paladin will have lower HP than you expect and be able to hit stuff no problem, or the Paladin will have more HP than you expect, and not be able to hit anything. When you balance around just one or the other it's easy to make predictions, trying to juggle both is painful.

Aside from that mentioned above, I'd personally incline towards a Cha/Str focus. Even just replacing smite DCs from Cha to Str makes the latter quite important; Punishment/Deterrence based off Strength not so much.

The idea pitched to multiply Str as if using a 2-hander I'd rather make it a feat, because it makes wielding a 2-hander probably a bad idea overall, given that treating a 1-handed weapon as a 2-handed weapon while wearing a shield leads to increased PA damage and then you make 2-handed weapons pointless. Feat-wise, it will eat one of your feat slots to equate your damage potential to that of THF AND if you get Agile Shield Fighting you could even reach an intermediate point between THF damage potential and TWF hit potential. I'd personally make it a trait of Bastard Swords, Dwarven War-Axes and other "1-h exotic/2-h martial" weapons, because that would require one less feat and make wielding an exotic weapon actually important (not to mention it would make Dwarves save one feat, making them excellent for S&B builds).

So, aside from that worry of changing smites from Cha to Str from a Cha/Con perspective (which isn't what you're suggesting, but more an observation of mine) and how to tackle the idea of Divine Punishment/Divine Deterrence keyed off Strength; how would other abilities could key off Str well enough to make Str a viable choice? I still hold the idea that Con should remain important enough to be a tertiary stat compared to, say, Dexterity (HP and Fort notwithstanding, since Dex would equate Fort with Reflex which is a greater trade and HP with ranged attack rolls which is something a Paladin currently lacks), so it might need one or two abilities that could shift the class into a more defensive one, or at least applicable as a tertiary stat while making Str all the more important. Ideally, so that if you were to get a, say, array much like Elite stat (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), you could definitely put Cha and Str as your main stats, Con as tertiary, and leave Dex, Int and Wis as dump stats. So far, the only thing where Str applies (if I were to apply that change) is attack bonus, damage bonus, DC of smites, and potentially Divine Deterrence/Punishment (and any abilities that work similarly). Since I want the auras to run off the same score to keep parity amongst each other (and I'm already planning how to apply shield enhancement bonus to all of them), making Str/Cha distinguishing auras seems a bit off.

Must be that trying to juggle between Cha, Con and Str in any way rubs off as "bad MAD", whereas keeping Charisma relevant in all areas approaches some degree of parity where you won't need much since Cha solves pretty much everything for you. Don't feel bad about this, but it just nags me off.

[Cieyrin]

Lovely work as usual, Oskar, though I do have a bone to pick about the action type of Severe Custody and similar. Is it meant to be immediate or some crazy form of free action?

There's a small discrepancy between the Paladin's Fighter equivalent and the multiclassing between the two, as the equivalent is -4 and the multiclass is -5.

[T.G. Oskar]

Lovely work as usual, Oskar, though I do have a bone to pick about the action type of Severe Custody and similar. Is it meant to be immediate or some crazy form of free action?

The latter. Basically, Divine Punishment/Necrotic Punishment/Severe Custody all are free actions done as a reaction of another creature. They behave like immediate actions, but they don't use that slot so they're free actions; on the other hand, you can only do this to a character once per round, so it's not exactly free.

It'd be better explained with the 4e term "Immediate Reaction", since it works under similar guidelines. It's something to increase the damage output of the classes without spending actions, something not entirely noticeable but still a threat if done every turn; eventually the character will have to hit the Paladin, Blackguard or Justiciar if they don't want to suffer more damage, because all of that stacks up.

Speaking of classes...there's one more class that should be around. Good, Evil and Law are covered, so how do you expect I'll cover Chaos?


ANARCH
(Image not found...yet)[/SIZE]

"Law and Chaos are just two sides of the same coin; Order and Disorder. Both are distinctions, illusions made by mortals to understand the true nature of Pure, Unadulterated Chaos. And what is Pure Chaos, you ask? I dunno, I didn't make it; might want to consult a Slaadmaster for that. I heard they taste well with fermented tomato soup" - Fnardo "Knicknocker" Fnordftauffen, a gnome in extremely gaudy armor supposedly belonging to the "Orderless Order of Order and Disorder", and calls himself an "anarch"

MAKING AN ANARCH
ABILITIES: Same as Paladin, Blackguard and Justiciar
RACES: Anarchs, much like their orderly counterparts, favor races that grant bonuses to Charisma and Strength. This makes humans and Aasimar (the rare Aasimar that finds solace in chaos) two of the most favored races for this class.
Within the savage races, most Orcs find themselves embracing the nature of Chaos and bestowed power from the fickle Slaadi to become Anarchs. Evil or not (but usually non-good), their huge strength serves as a strong counterpart to their subtle lack of Charisma. A few githyanki, to better oppose their githzerai kindred, take the mantle of the Anarch; while a few, the unnatural luck that surrounds the Anarchs has allowed them to escape their Lich Queen, which may see them as a threat to her rule.
ALIGNMENT: Any chaotic.
STARTING GOLD: As PHB Paladin
STARTING AGE: As PHB Paladin

Class Skills
The anarch class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Very few skills can truly be considered intrinsically "chaotic", so the inclusion of buff is quite expected. Otherwise, similar to the Retooled Paladin.

Hit Die: d12

THE ANARCH



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
0
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
+1

+2

0

+2
Aura of chaos, entropic strike 1/encounter
2
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2

+3

0

+3
Bonus feat, Diehard, shrewd tactic
2
-
-
-
-


3rd
+3

+3

+1

+3
Anarchic aura, scofflaw
3
0
-
-
-


4th
+4

+4

+1

+4
Disable construct
3
0
-
-
-


5th
+5

+4

+1

+4
Entropic strike 2/encounter, improved entropic strike
3
1
-
-
-


6th
+6/+1

+5

+2

+5
Bonus Feat, entropic backlash (attacks)
3
1
-
-
-


7th
+7/+2

+5

+2

+5
Luck of the draw
4
1
0
-
-


8th
+8/+3

+6

+2

+6
Mettle
4
2
0
-
-


9th
+9/+4

+6

+3

+6
Anarchic aura, random leap (1/encounter)
4
2
1
-
-


10th
+10/+5

+7

+3

+7
Bonus Feat, entropic strike 3/encounter
4
2
1
-
-


11th
+11/+6/+1

+7

+3

+7
Slippery mind
5
2
1
0
-


12th
+12/+7/+2

+8

+4

+8
Entropic backlash (spells)
5
3
2
1
-


13th
+13/+8/+3

+8

+4

+8
Improved mettle
5
3
2
1
-


14th
+14/+9/+4

+9

+4

+9
Bonus feat, random leap (3/encounter)
5
3
2
2
0


15th
+15/+10/+5

+9

+5

+9
Anarchic aura, entropic strike 4/encounter, destructive strike
5
3
3
2
1


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1

+10

+5

+10
Anarchic resistance
5
4
3
2
1


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2

+10

+5

+10
Unyielding resolve
5
4
3
3
2


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3

+11

+6

+11
Bonus Feat, scion of fortune
5
4
4
3
2


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4

+11

+6

+11
Random leap (1/round)
5
4
4
3
3


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5

+12

+6

+12
Anarch of legend, entropic strike 5/encounter
5
4
4
3
3



Yeah, don't bash me for doing such a piss-poor interpretation of the Principia Discordia. Or did I do it right? You never know. I profess myself a follower of Order, so I tend to understand quite poorly the notion of chaos.

Having said that; there are very few differences between the four classes, actually. If you've noticed, stuff like the BAB, the spells, and the organization of the abilities are remarkably similar on all four classes. Once I do the post that explains the nature of a "chassis", I'll place the skeleton I used for all of those, not to mention the Bez-Kismet, part of the Ranger and a yet-undisclosed class. If you're curious; my take on the Soulborn. Complete with different name.
Now, you'll notice a few abilities are different. As usual, the spoilers are here to determine what are the differences. Namely, you'll see Entropic Strike, Luck of the Draw and Random Leap are quite dissimilar to similar abilities, and reflect the idea of random chance without the trouble of relying too much on rolls.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the anarch.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Anarchs are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all kinds of armor (heavy, medium and light), and with all kinds of shields.

While Paladins and Justiciars tend to have nifty tricks, Anarchs and Blackguards lack such a benefit. I might need to find some ideas regarding what to grant them, though I might just give them the ability to treat anything as a weapon. Might be thematically fitting, maybe not.

Aura of Chaos (Ex): The power of an anarch’s aura of chaos (see the detect chaos spell) is equal to her anarch level, just like the aura of a cleric of a chaotic deity. Unlike the aura ability below, this aura is always active.

Not so different from similar auras, so to fill this...it's quite odd that, after going with "a Paladin", "a Blackguard" and "a Justiciar", I have to use "an" for Anarch, a repetition I find a bit unnerving. Then again, "a Anarch" is just as repetitive and worse-sounding.

Spells: An anarch casts divine spells, which are drawn from the cleric spell list plus a few spells added to the list below. An anarch can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time.
To prepare or cast a spell, an anarch must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a anarch’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the anarch’s Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, an anarch can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Anarch. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score. When Table: The Anarch indicates that the anarch gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. The anarch does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers as a cleric does.
An anarch casts spells the same way a bard or sorcerer does, except her spells are divine in origin and thus she may cast them in any kind of armor. An anarch may learn (and cast) any spell on the cleric spell list (see Player’s Handbook), with the following restrictions: an anarch may not learn or cast a spell that has the chaotic descriptor. Furthermore, an anarch may not cast spells that oppose her moral alignment; a chaotic good anarch may not cast evil spells, nor a chaotic evil anarch may cast lawful spells. An anarch, however, may learn and cast spells that are not available on the cleric spell list and that are unique to her. The spells that she may cast alongside those she may already learn within the cleric spell list appear below.
Upon reaching 8th level, once per week and at every three class levels he gains, an anarch can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. An anarch may swap only a single spell at any given moment, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the specified level.

Table: Anarch spells known


Level
0
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
2
-
-
-
-


2nd
2
-
-
-
-


3rd
3
11
-
-
-


4th
3
21
-
-
-


5th
3
2
-
-
-


6th
3
3
-
-
-


7th
4
3
11
-
-


8th
4
3
21
-
-


9th
4
4
2
-
-


10th
4
4
3
-
-


11th
5
4
3
21
-


12th
5
4
3
2
-


13th
5
5
4
3
-


14th
5
5
4
3
21


15th
6
5
4
3
2


16th
6
5
4
4
3


17th
6
5
5
4
3


18th
6
6
5
4
4


19th
7
6
5
5
4


20th
7
6
5
5
5


1 Provided the anarch has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level.

As noted above, an anarch needs not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Technically, there shouldn't be much difference between the spells of an Anarch and the spells of other such "holy warriors". The format is quite similar, nothing so important. Still, when you see the spells, you'll notice they are quite powerful compared to other classes, and it may just make Archivists happier. It's not the problem of the class, but that of the Archivist itself.

Entropic Strike (Su): An anarch has the singular ability to infuse her strikes with the power of chaos, causing lethal damage to creatures of law and affecting creatures that remain neutral. The effect of infusing attacks with the power of chaos is, unexpectedly, a mixture of unpredictability and expectancy, in which an anarch may control the power of her strike or leave the results to chance and risk the outcome.
Once per encounter as part of a melee attack, an anarch may smite an opponent. The anarch adds her Charisma modifier to the attack roll; if successful, the attack causes extra damage and a special effect. An anarch must choose her method of smiting; once it is chosen, it becomes permanent (but see below).
Unless stated otherwise, an anarch deals an amount of extra damage equal to her anarch level (neutral creatures take half damage). As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + half the anarch’s class level + the anarch’s Strength modifier; lawful creatures suffer a penalty of -1 to the save for each four HD or class levels of the anarch. If the anarch accidentally strikes a creature that is chaotic, the strike has no effect but the ability is not used for the day.
Although the anarch may smite her opponent with a fixed ability and fixed damage, she may take a risk and expect a different outcome. An anarch that smites her opponent and leaves the result to random chance may increase or decrease the amount of damage dealt and inflict a different effect. An anarch that makes this choice acquires a -5 penalty on damage rolls (to a minimum of 0) but rolls a d10 and adds the outcome of the roll to the damage dealt; furthermore, she may roll a d6 and determine the effect that will apply.

Confounding: the anarch’s strike erodes the creature’s mind. If the creature fails a Will saving throw, the creature is treated as confused for a number of rounds equal to half the anarch’s class level. A creature that succeeds on the save is merely confused for one round. Mindless creatures are not affected by this ability regardless of alignment. An anarch that decides to leave effects to luck use this effect if a d6 roll ends up in 1 or 4; furthermore, the amount of rounds the creature is confused is instead equal to the anarch’s class level.

Disruptive: the anarch’s strike disrupts the functioning of the creature. If the creature fails a Fortitude save, the creature is treated as if sickened for a number of rounds equal to half the anarch’s class level (minimum 1). This effect is not actual sickness, and thus creatures naturally immune to sickness are affected by this ability (such as undead or constructs), furthermore, the penalty to attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks increases by one for every five class levels of the anarch. An anarch that decides to leave the effect to random chance uses this effect if a d6 roll ends up in 3 or 6; furthermore, the sickened creature is treated as if nauseated for one round (but creatures immune to nausea are not affected by this bonus).

Entangling: the anarch’s strike lingers upon the enemy, crippling its movement. If using this ability, the anarch’s attack deals no extra damage; however, the creature must succeed on a Reflex save or become entangled for a number of rounds equal to half the anarch’s caster level. Each round the creature is entangled, the creature suffers 1 point of damage plus 1 point of damage per four class levels of the anarch; this damage is of divine origin and cannot be resisted. An anarch that decides to leave effects to random chance use this effect if a d6 roll ends up in 2 or 5; as well, the d10 roll is added (or subtracted) to the amount of rounds the creature is entangled.

At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, the anarch may strike a non-chaotic creature one additional time per encounter.

This isn't your grandparents' smites. Not even similar to the smites of the Paladin and Blackguard, and strikingly different from the Justiciar's verdicts.

Entropic Strike works at a different level. You see, you can play it safe. Chaos doesn't mean you have to be totally reckless; you are just willing to try new stuff to see if it works. It's not a bad idea, actually, and people that follow Order do so as well, but there's a big difference. While an orderly person tries new things on a very calculated way, leading to repulsion, a person who chooses chaos tries new things for the very experience of it. If it's bad, they learn from it and may try it again from a new perspective; otherwise, it's just one of the large sets of tricks they learn.

Why this small quip, though? Entropic Strike works in a similar trend; you can play it safe, using the strikes you know, but you may leave it to random chance. This means, at any moment, the Anarch may find herself fighting a mindless, yet oddly lawful creature (well, actually, not THAT odd at all...). That would block, say, the anarch's confusing strike, but that doesn't mean they're out of options. In that case, they leave it to random chance; they roll a d6 and a d10, and they may end up with the right strike and an increased benefit, or with the same strike but with little damage.

Now, why is this special? You see; leaving it to random chance alters the nature of the smite by adding an extra rider effect. Perhaps the strike is more powerful than before, the effect lasts for more rounds; the idea is that, while you might want to play it safe sometimes, there should be a clear benefit to leaving the results of the smite to the Random Number Gods.

Aside from that; what does the strikes do? Confusing Strike, the Will-based strike, does exactly as intended; a confusion effect which can be just as annoying as it sounds, and it works on those who are complete menaces when confused; melee characters. Disruptive Strike works with the oft-maligned sickness condition, which is cool but it doesn't stack and doesn't progress, unlike fear which stacks and definitely becomes worse with each step; you'll see on the Improved version, which basically has nauseated as the step after sickened (and nauseated is a tough condition to beat). Entangling Strike is basically a damage-over-time strike, something only a single maneuver has (a Desert Wind boost, to be precise), coupled with a pretty tough debuff based off Reflex. All three have equal chances of being randomly executed and a reasonable spread so you'll see all three quite often if you prefer to leave the use of the ability to happenstance.

UPDATE: Following the trend, entropic strike save DCs are based on Strength instead of Charisma.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, and every four levels after that, an anarch gains a bonus feat in addition to those she obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. An anarch must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, an anarch is considered to have a fighter level equal to her anarch level -4.

Same old, same old. As usual, the Anarch can't get Law Devotion, but it feels right at home with Trickery Devotion.

Diehard: At 2nd level, an anarch gains the Diehard feat as a bonus feat. She does not need to meet the prerequisites of this feat to acquire it.

No difference here. Typical endurance feat. Move along...

Shrewd Tactic (Ex): A 2nd level anarch may add her Charisma modifier as a bonus to all weapon damage rolls when wielding a shield. If she wields a tower shield, she may add the modifier to her attack rolls as well.
Furthermore, whenever the anarch faces an opponent that is flat-footed, flanked or otherwise denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, the anarch's damage from her Strength (and Charisma, if applicable) increases. An anarch wielding a shield adds 1-1/2 times the sum of her Strength and Charisma modifier, while an anarch wielding a two-handed weapon adds twice her Strength modifier.

Same as...wait, that's not the same as the other three! Why does the Anarch get more damage?

Well, considering they're opportunists and tend to take advantage of the situation, you can expect the Anarch to deal increased damage whenever the time is right (and being a class that depends on chance, that is definitely something to exploit). Thus, an anarch with Strength 16 and Charisma 16 would deal 9 points when fighting with a shield, or 6 points when fighting with a two-handed weapon if taking the enemy unaware. That is one potent tactic, if you consider it (and makes fighting with a shield and flanking all the more tasty). Just remember that the sustained damage may be higher, but two-handed weapon users deal more damage anyways.

Anarchic Aura (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, an anarch channels the power of chaos through her body. Treat this ability as the paladin’s divine aura, except all auras are replaced as follows:
Disturbance: penalty to saving throws equal to Charisma modifier against mind-affecting effects on opponents, morale bonus to saving throws equal to Charisma modifier against mind-affecting effects on allies.
Ennui: denies morale bonuses to opponents. Amount denied is equal to total bonus or the anarch’s Charisma modifier, whichever is lower.
Happenstance: circumstance bonus to allies or penalty to opponents equal to Charisma modifier: effect is chosen at random (d12: 1 – penalty to attack rolls, 2 – bonus to attack rolls, 3 – penalty to damage rolls, 4 – bonus to damage rolls, 5 – penalty to AC, 6 – bonus to AC, 7 – penalty to Reflex saves, 8 – bonus to Reflex saves, 9 – penalty to Will saves, 10 – bonus to Will saves, 11 – roll again, 12 – choose one) every round
Rowdiness: morale bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls, morale bonus to Will saves equal to half the anarch’s Charisma modifier; penalty to AC equal to half the anarch’s Charisma modifier on any non-lawful creatures. For barbarians and creatures under a state of rage, instead add Charisma modifier to effective barbarian level if raging for purposes of determining rage bonuses; creatures that are raging but have no barbarian levels are treated as if they had 1 level of barbarian for purposes of determining their rage bonuses.
Unpredictability: miss chance equal to 5% times the anarch’s Charisma modifier (maximum 50%). Treat as the effect of a entropic shield spell, but it also protects against melee attacks. This only applies to the anarch.

These are probably some of the most powerful auras around. Anarchs aren't playing when they use their auras.

Happenstance is quite the powerful aura, actually. The idea was that everybody had the bonus or the penalty specified, but then I remembered something I actually believe; what's equal isn't a disadvantage. In other words, if you have a penalty to attack rolls, enemies have an advantage; however, if the enemies ALSO have a penalty to attack rolls, that advantage is neutralized. Battles become shorter or larger if only because such values fluctuate. Thus, happenstance and its current incarnation; either your allies gain a bonus or your enemies gain a penalty, which ends up in benefits on your behalf.

Rowdiness will be perfect for those anarchs that cast the rage spell or that have barbarian buddies. An anarch that has enough Charisma may cause the barbarian to enter a Greater Rage or Mighty Rage early on, something that they surely will appreciate. Otherwise, the bonus it provides is thematically between Rage and Inspire Courage, which as you may know are abilities used by chaotic-inclined classes. Unpredictability, on the other hand, is definitely an aura meant to be annoying, given that miss chances block sneak attacks and generally work better than AC-based defenses. As you can see, the anarch is unusual in that you simply can't seem to hit her.

NOTE: Unlike the other divine champions, I decided to keep Charisma for the effects of these auras. While it was easy to deal with Paladin=tank=Constitution and Blackguard=damage dealer=Strength, it was a bit hard to try and deal with the Anarch and a different stat. Thus, they're the few lucky ones that use their highest modifier for stuff like Circumstance or Unpredictability.

Scofflaw (Su): At 3rd level, an anarch is immune to divination effects, as if she were under a constant nondetection effect. The caster level for the effect is equal to the anarch’s class level.

While the Paladin has a way to deal with fear, and the Blackguard has a way to turn fear into a weapon, not to mention the Justiciar having a way to deal with compulsions, it's quite odd to see the Anarch having something so bizarre as having immunity to detections. If they could hide, or become invisible, it would be a bit more useful. Still, slippery mind at this level is traditionally considered a quite powerful ability.

Still; I can hear any idea pitched for this level, even if it's just a very elaborate explanation of why slippery mind isn't a bad idea for 2nd level.

Disable Construct (Su): At 4th level, an anarch acquires the ability to affect the functions of constructs. Treat this ability as the cleric’s ability to turn or rebuke undead, except if an anarch would turn the construct, it instead disables it for a number of rounds equal to half the anarch’s class level. If a construct would be destroyed, it instead reduces the HP of the construct to 0 but does not destroy it outright (any amount of hit point restoration reactivates the construct instead). An anarch is treated as a cleric of three levels lower for purposes of disabling constructs. This ability may be treated as turn or rebuke undead for purposes of feat, prestige class or magic item prerequisites.

If I wanted, I could have gone with a simple "turn/rebuke outsider" and make it relate to lawful or chaotic outsiders. However, while undead and outsiders have lots of counters, and even plants and oozes of all creatures have counters, constructs have very little. Fighting a golem can be pretty annoying to anyone except characters that can bypass their AC and DR, or Conjurers. Constructs are, by nature, representatives of order (not always, but a disproportionately large amount of times), so it's natural that such an obedient, orderly mindset (if any; constructs are usually mindless to boot) could be disabled through supernatural means. In a place like Eberron, an anarch would be deadly because it could disable waves of Warforged, most homunculi and other such deadly creatures; even in vanilla Greyhawk, having an anarch disable a golem in one turn can be pretty surprising. As usual; disable construct is the pool of points an anarch gets for divine feats, so in the odd case there are no constructs an anarch still gets good use of this ability.

Improved Entropic Strike (Su): At 5th level, the anarch’s entropic strike increases in potency.

Confounding: the anarch’s strike directly affects the mental functions of the creature. If the creature fails the Will saving throw, it takes 1 point of damage to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma as well as become confused. Mindless creatures do not receive ability damage even if they are subject to it. If the anarch uses this ability by means of random chance, increase the ability damage by 1d3 points each.

Disruptive: the anarch’s strike ignores various resistances. Damage dealt by the strike ignores any damage reduction and hardness. If the anarch uses this ability by means of random chance, damage dealt by the smite (including weapon damage, but not precision-based damage) is doubled.

Entangling: the anarch’s strike entangles nearby creatures. Opponents within 30 feet of the affected target must make a Reflex save or become entangled. All creatures take the same damage as the target creature. If the ability is chosen through random chance, roll a d12 instead of a d10 to determine the bonus rounds of entangling.

As with the other classes, Entropic Strike has its share of upgrades. Unlike the other classes, these upgrades also come with random-chance rider effects. Confusing Strike deals mental damage but is based off a Will save, so it suddenly becomes lethal to spellcasters; Disruptive Strike bypasses DR and hardness so it suddenly becomes dangerous to melee characters, and Entangling Strike...finally entangles. As usual, you can play it safe, but there's clear benefits within random chance.

Entropic Backlash (Su): At 6th level, whenever an anarch is using her anarchic aura ability, she may deactivate it in order to gain the benefit of this ability. If an enemy creature succeeds in making a melee or ranged attack against an ally of the anarch, the creature must make a d100 roll. If the creature rolls 25 or under, the ally takes no damage and the enemy takes the full brunt of the attack (if it is a melee attack) or deals damage to an adjacent creature that is not an ally of the anarch (if it’s a ranged attack or if the creature makes a melee attack while one of its allies is adjacent to it). This ability activates each time the enemy creature succeeds on an attack. The anarch gains no benefit from this ability.

At 12th level, this effect also applies to spells. Only spells, spell-like abilities, psionic powers, psi-like abilities and mysteries (so as long as they are used as arcane spells or spell-like abilities) with a range of personal, touch, close, medium or long are affected by this ability. If any of the above-mentioned abilities backfires, the spellcaster takes damage equal to 1d6 points per level of the spell, spell-like ability, psionic power, psi-like ability or mystery.

While the Paladin, the Blackguard and the Justiciar have deterrents against attacks and spells, the Anarch has a variant on these abilities. 25% "miss chance" on pretty much everything except extraordinary and supernatural abilities might not seem much; it's really 1 in every 4 attacks. On the other hand, on the case that attack misses, the enemy will take a much more severe backlash than the original abilities, which generally deal a smaller amount of damage in comparison. What makes this ability much more dangerous is that it applies at all moments, not just once per round like in most of those "deterrent" abilities. It really reinforces the idea that fighting against an anarch really IS a gamble. This makes the anarch deceptively dangerous.

Luck of the Draw (Su): At 7th level, an anarch acquires a pool of mystical energy which can be used to heal or punish. Treat this ability as the paladin’s lay on hands ability, except instead of healing (or inflicting) an amount of hit points up to a fixed amount, the anarch instead has a pool of dice (d6) equal to her class level plus her Charisma modifier.

I recall a good amount of months ago that someone on this same forum proposed an idea to improve lay on hands on a very similar way to Pathfinder; make lay on hands based on dice rolls. While I don't really like the idea with the Paladin (given that the class generally inclines towards Law), I found it spectacular for an Anarch.

Still; why the small dice pool? Well, it scales poorly (with 24+ Charisma, at level 15 that means about 22d6 worth of healing, which is around 77 points of damage on average), but it's quite big at the beginning (11d6 at the level you gain this ability, roughly 5 points more than the average you'd get with the traditional lay on hands). And, since you can really hit the jackpot later on, and there are ways to reroll d6s in the odd case there's a 1, there's a chance you get much more HP than usual.

Now; I'm posting the ability as I developed it originally. I've started to consider replenishing the pool on a per-encounter basis; in this case, that means I might need to reconsider the right amount of dice on the pool. Does (class level + Cha modifier)d6 sounds well as a refillable pool, or perhaps something less (like d6 equal to your Charisma modifier)?

Mettle (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, if an anarch makes a successful Will or Fortitude save that would normally reduce the save’s effect, she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells with a saving throw entry of “partial” or “half” are affected by this ability, and only for purposes of Will and/or Fortitude saves with these descriptors.

Same old same old. Not much to see here. As you can see, I really seem to like Mettle, and I find that while it's a quirky ability, it's one that really defines what a survivalist-type of tank should actually do. I also find it hardly underused, and something that should have been part of the OGL as an evasion counterpart.

Random Leap (Su): At 9th level, an anarch gains the ability to jaunt away from trouble to prevent damage or closing distance in a very short notice. Although her jaunting ability is limited at first, she eventually gains the ability to warp in-between spaces with incredible ease as she grows more powerful.
Once per encounter, as a move action, the anarch may move up to twice her unmodified base land speed (meaning, the speed that she would have without enhancement bonuses or penalties because of armor). She effectively replaces her move with this ability.
At 14th level, she may use this ability three times per encounter. At 19th level, she may use this ability once per round, but only up to her unmodified base land speed (she may still move three times per encounter up to twice her base land speed).

While Paladins and Blackguards gain the ability to fly and Justiciars move swifter than anyone, Anarchs simply leap around and end up right where they're needed the most. As you can see, this is an ability that starts better than usual, since you can use it once per encounter compared to only 3 times per day (although the Justiciar's movement bonus is permanent). Later on, it becomes a 1/round ability, meaning that if you want you can basically warp instead of moving (totally taking the enemy unaware and bypassing restrictions such as threatened areas and whatnot) but take no advantage from enhancements to movement.

Ideally, this should work much like Dimension Door, except you can act after moving. I personally recommend you using this ability with Sun School or as part of a shadow-pounce build, if only because most melee characters could make good use of such an ability. That means I should place a small disclaimer so that you can enable such nice tricks (even if only once or three times per encounter) on your builds.

Slippery Mind (Ex): At 11th level, if an anarch with slippery mind is affected by a mind-affecting spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.

Don't look at me that way! Anarchs get slippery mind before rogues do, actually, and with their huge Will saves they actually can make good use of this ability.

Still, as I mentioned with the scofflaw ability; if you find slippery mind isn't fit for 11th level but fits perfectly as a 2nd level ability, by all means do so. I do believe slippery mind has its niche right around level 6, where enchanters start to become a bit more dangerous, but the fact that enchantments aren't so powerful to begin with...

Improved Mettle (Ex): At 13th level, an anarch’s mettle ability improves. She still takes no effect on a successful Will or Fortitude save that has the “partial” or “half” descriptor, but henceforth she takes only the partial effect or half the damage on a failed save.

Same old, same old. Just as I like mettle, I also like the improved version. It's basically improved evasion but refluffed, so it makes little sense that it ain't OGL by all means...

Destructive Strike (Su): At 15th level, an anarch’s entropic strike ability acquires a powerful new effect, closely related to that of the anarch’s original choice of strike.

Confusing: an anarch’s strike ignores mental defenses. Immunity to confusion or mind-affecting spells do not ignore the anarch’s confusion effect, and a creature suffers 1d3 points of Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma damage regardless of whether it is immune to ability damage. Mindless creatures are still immune to the effect of the anarch’s strike. If the anarch uses this ability by means of random chance, increase the ability damage by 1d6 points each.

Disruptive: an anarch’s strike is utterly devastating. Creatures that fail their Fortitude save take triple damage from the smite (including the weapon’s damage, as well as any other damage modifiers, but not precision-based damage such as sneak attack). If the anarch uses this ability through random chance, the creature takes quadruple damage.

Entangling: an anarch’s strike reduces the mobility of all creatures. If a creature fails its Reflex save, it becomes slowed instead of entangled; creatures that succeed on their saving throws are still entangled for a number of rounds equal to half the anarch’s class level. Freedom of movement and similar effects do not ignore the slow or entangle effect. If the ability is chosen through random chance, roll a d10 and add the result to the damage dealt by the entangling.

Destructive Strike doesn't really seem so destructive, but as you can see, it's one of the few ways to deal four times your damage, alongside a very decent static damage bonus that gets multiplied alongside it. Entangling is also quite powerful, being one of the few non-magical ways to slow enemies and without a Will save (meaning both spellcasters and melee characters get affected by the ability), and the clause that freedom of movement doesn't protect you from this smite is all the more worthwhile. Confusing ends up being one of the least powerful of all abilities, however; still, taking mental damage AND remain confused for a few rounds can be just as devastating.

Anarchic Resistance (Su): At 16th level, an anarch gains the ability to further resist the spells of lawful creatures. She gains spell resistance equal to 15 + the anarch’s class level, but only against spells with the lawful descriptor or any spell cast by characters of lawful alignment, clerics of lawful deities, or lawful outsiders.

Spell Resistance but against order. This is probably the most annoying of them all, because the game tends to incline towards law and good over chaos and evil. If the cleric or wizard just happens to be lawful, that means you'll constantly be bouncing off those spells. As well, most enemies are chaotic so they may find little resistance. And there are very few lawful spells, so spell-wise they aren't so protected. Still, when you have a miss chance against spells, you have pretty much all the protection you need against them, no?

Unyielding Resolve (Ex): At 17th level, an anarch becomes capable of fighting even when her forces fail her, beyond where others could stand. An anarch is never considered disabled or staggered, even if she has less than 0 hit points or her nonlethal damage exceeds her current hit point total. Furthermore, she may continue to fight even if she has less than -10 hit points, but only to an amount of negative hit points equal to 10 plus half her character level plus her Constitution modifier. Instant death effects and attacks that destroy the body still affect the anarch if successful.

And again, another "indestructible" class. Sort of. Anarchs and their spellcasting, alongside Entropic Backlash or the Aura of Unpredictability makes them already annoying to fight, and pretty much resilient to anything they are thrown off; having high HP and extended negative HP range makes them even more resilient.

UPDATE: Went for Constitution on this one.

Scion of Fortune (Su): At 18th level, an anarch gains the ability to alter her fortune ever so slightly. Once per round, whenever an anarch fails a roll, she may attempt a reroll with a -5 penalty. She must take the result of this roll, even if its lower than the previous one.

Paladins get an increase to their total HP amount; Blackguards gain traits like undead, and Justiciar gains no failure on their saving throws. How an anarch can compare against that?

Well, exactly as you see. This is the ultimate form of luck reroll, except its not a luck reroll. You gain a penalty on that, but if you rolled a 1 and all you needed to roll was a 2 or something, this may not necessarily be the case. Since it applies to just about anything, it means that your chances of success just got up even more. But again; NO LUCK REROLL. That's in case you have luck feats.

Anarch of Legend: At 20th level, an anarch becomes an embodiment of revolution, and her legacy inspires change (for good or for bad). She is forevermore treated as a native outsider (unless she is already treated as one), gains the chaotic subtype, and gains damage reduction X/epic and lawful, where X is equal to half her class level.

And yes, the capstone. Consider that being a chaotic outsider makes you one of the rarest creatures around. Few things really affect chaotic creatures, so DR X/epic and lawful means very few things really hit you. Except, you know...devils. And inevitables; those are gonna hit pretty hard (but most of the inevitables aren't Epic, mind you).

Anarch Spells
The following spells are exclusive or enhanced to the anarch:
1st—hideous laughter**, lesser confusion**, weapon of tumult*
2nd—blur**, misdirection**, mount**, touch of idiocy**
3rd—glibness**, mirror image**, rage**
4th— break enchantment-, chaos hammer-, confusion-, dispel law-, righteous might-

The following spells are denied to the anarch:
1st—command
2nd—calm emotions
3rd—meld into stone, stone shape
4th—control water, dimensional anchor, giant vermin, imbue with spell ability

And here's the spell list.

Look at the 2nd level spells for a while. Notice that blur is one of the spells? Now look at level 3; mirror image. That's an odd choice of spells, mostly illusions. Alongside lesser confusion and rage, you get a few of the bard's own spells.

This is intentional. The bard is to Chaos what the Paladin is to Good; probably its best exemplar. Thus, if the Anarch is to become the exemplar of Chaos, then it's not so difficult to allow it to cast a few of the bard's own spells, in divine format. That also means mirror image and some of the other spells become part of the archivist's spell lists...well, on games where Divine Bards are absent, anyways.

What you'll notice, though, is that the Anarch will chafe on compulsions. This is odd, because the Bard thrives on compulsions; however, much like the Paladin chafes on some forms of necromancy because they are antithetical to their beliefs, and since one of the anarch's core beliefs is defense of free will and the right to choose, compulsions definitely play against that. Except for rage, that's less of a compulsion and more something about loosening inhibitions, so not ALL compulsions are forbidden. Just...those that deal with domination. Mostly

Aside from that (and calm emotions because chaos is often related to passion and not on self-control), the spell list isn't so different from the rest. When getting spells for Anarchs, consider adding spells that Bards might use, except those who rely on compulsions (charms are free play). Bardic buffs are strong contenders, and bardic illusions even more. However, be careful on what you add them; having a character that can cast spells from the cleric and bard spell lists may make for a strong character.

By the way; would you like haste on the list or not? It's the kind of spell that separates them from the norm.

Weapon of Tumult
Transmutation
Level: Anarch 1

This spell is exactly as the bless weapon paladin spell, except as follows: instead of improving a weapon’s effectiveness against evil opponents, this spell makes a weapon more effective against lawful opponents.

And as a final bonus; there's bless weapon, corrupt weapon and checkmate's light, but there's no spell to turn weapons chaotic. Even if you don't like anything from the retools, at least consider this addition to a spell. This works well with holy liberators (if you're using the PrC), as it allows them to cover that area.

And that should wrap up the four primary classes. Next, a collection of alternate class features that apply to ALL above classes, including Serenity. Before that, however, I'll be revising the classes and adopting the recommendations mentioned above. For ease of reference; would you please recap all recommendations (or if everyone agrees, someone recollect all recommendations organized by poster) in order to make the necessary changes easier? I figure a few days should be enough; since some of the changes directly involve the chassis behind all four classes, I want to make sure the recommendations are dealt with before tackling the core of Project Heretica.

[T.G. Oskar]

Multiclassing
Unlike other classes, blackguards and justiciars may not multiclass freely. Any of these classes is allowed to take a prestige class without any restrictions (other than meeting the prerequisites for the base class) and still be allowed to take levels in their respective classes so desires, but if they take a level in a base class, they may not gain any more levels in their respective classes. An anarch may multiclass freely in another class, but it may not take any more anarch levels if it takes a level in a class that requires changing to a lawful alignment; once embracing the notion of order, the anarch's connection to raw chaos is forever altered.

Blackguards, justiciars and anarchs that multiclass into a fighter, a martial adept, or a divine spellcaster gains special benefits, however. Such classes may multiclass freely into a fighter if they so desire; this is an exception to the aforementioned rule. Furthermore, if they have more than six levels, they may treat their class level -4 as effective fighter levels for purposes of meeting prerequisites for fighter bonus feats. As well, they may treat their class levels -4 as effective initiator levels for purposes of qualifying for maneuvers if she multiclasses into a martial adept class (instead of merely half her level); however, they face their multiclass restriction as usual. If they multiclass into a divine spellcaster, they may treat half their class levels as part of that specific divine spellcasting caster levels (but not actual class levels to, for example, gain higher level spells or spell slots), and may prepare spells exclusive to their spell lists (but not reduced-level spells or spells that appear on other classes' spell lists); they face their multiclass restrictions as usual (if any).

Expanded Multiclass Options
All four classes (paladin, blackguard, justiciar or anarch) may advance auras gained through the marshal, divine mind or dragon shaman class abilities. Treat half the class levels in paladin, blackguard, justiciar or anarch as class levels in marshal, divine mind or dragon shaman for purposes of determining the strength of (but not access to) auras, and viceversa. If using the Bez-Kismet, apply the same bonus as well.

As well, all four classes may advance some class abilities of divine minds, crusaders, and soulborn. Treat half of the class levels in paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar as effective manifester levels for divine mind class abilities or the effective caster level for the soulborn's soulmelds (if any). As well, add full class levels in paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar to the smite opposition class ability of the soulborn (if using it against evil creatures with paladin, good creatures with blackguard, chaotic creatures with justiciar or lawful creatures with anarch) and the smite ability of crusaders (but not steely resolve). This also applies to the smite ability gained through means of multiclassing into a cleric with the Destruction domain.

A blackguard or anarch that multiclasses into bez-kismet adds half their class levels to the bez-kismet class level to determine their arcane caster level and the power of their curse of the fateless, and add half the class levels in bez-kismet to determine their divine caster level and the strength of their smite good/entropic smite class abilities. Furthermore, they add their full class levels to determine the spell resistance (if any) gained by means of bez-kismet, blackguard or anarch.

Blackguards that multiclass into warlocks may add half their class levels in blackguard to their effective caster level for invocations, and to determine the strength of their eldritch blast (but not gain any new invocations). As well, they may add half their class levels in warlock to the caster level of blackguard spells, and if they use the hideous blow blast shape invocation, they may use a smite as part of the same action. Finally, the blackguard adds half his class levels in warlock to determine the damage of his smite good ability and their saving throw DC (but not to determine new smites)

Anarchs that multiclass into barbarian add half their class level to their effective barbarian level when raging. As well, they add half their class levels to determine the caster level of bard spells and effective bard level to access songs (but not daily uses of bardic music) and may add bard spells to their anarch spell list and viceversa.

Since the above-mentioned classes hold some synergy, it's not a bad idea to reinforce that innate synergy that they hold by stacking to a certain extent some class abilities.

Having the auras inspired on the marshal, I decided that they should provide a reasonable boost to such abilities on aura-using classes (such as the marshal, the dragon shaman, and the ill-conceived divine mind). This should make dipping or dunking into the class less of a pain, although why would you like to multiclass if the latter abilities are so good anyways...?

Being primary smiters (and the paladin being the smiter per excellence), I also decided to provide some strength to the smite abilities of other classes. The smite ability of these four classes exceeds that of the above-mentioned, but just so that you don't get punished so much for pursuing a rare and interesting choice...

As you can see, blackguards and warlocks merge well, as well as anarchs with the traditionally chaotic classes (bard and barbarian). Because of this, they also gain some benefits when multiclassing.

And finally, some of the homebrew I've made also gets some benefit. This includes the Retooled Marshal and the Bez-Kismet; in case you still don't know, the [divine warrior] chassis was used as the core of the Bez-Kismet, and it's natural that at least two of the classes that can multiclass into it allow for some synergy between them.

These, along with multiclass feats, work under a dynamic of making multiclassing a less stringent option whenever a reasonable (or in the case of multiclass feats, unreasonable) synergy exists. Although this doesn't exist in most of my homebrew, some vestiges do appear (just as how the [ki-powered] chassis classes have some synergy between each other and thus stack their ki pool and ki strike abilities). Of course, for those who want to go all the way, you get a class that's worthwhile on its own right, but in the case you might want to spice up your build with an interesting build (or are mostly interested in more powerful spells or something), you gain a bonus for doing the right combination, even if you DO lose a good bit of stuff.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Serenity/Intuition
Most divine warriors devoted to a specific group of alignments are natural-born leaders, and thus they are naturally charismatic. However, some of these warriors are terrible leaders, but possessed of great wisdom, sometimes beyond their own years. Such warriors derive their unique powers from their wealth of knowledge and their unique connection with their deities, rather than a pool of inner strength.
Level: Paladin, blackguard, justiciar or anarch 1st
Replaces: See below
Benefit: Any class ability that is based off Charisma (such as the paladin's smite evil bonus to attack rolls or the blackguard's dark blessing, but not turn or rebuke undead, censure or rebuke outsider, or disable construct) is now based off Wisdom. Thus, a 1st level paladin that chooses this feature adds her Wisdom (not her Charisma) to her attack rolls when using smite evil, and a 7th level blackguard's uses of his vampiric touch ability are based off Wisdom.
In the case of spells, the paladin, blackguard, justiciar or anarch prepares spells instead of casting them spontaneously. The character uses its Wisdom modifier to determine bonus spells and the saving throw DC of the spells it casts, but must spend time preparing its spells like a cleric does. A paladin does not gain the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells, and the blackguard does not gain the ability to spontaneously convert his spells to cast inflict spells instead.

So, here's the touted Serenity/Intuition ACF. The Serenity/Intuition is really the same ability, but you give it the name you'd like; serenity works better for paladins and good-aligned anarchs and justiciers, while Intuition works fine for everybody. The idea is that all Charisma abilities are based off Wisdom instead, so there's no need to get the Serenity feat from Dragon Compendium to make the Paladin less SAD.

The biggest change is that Serenity returns to the Paladin and the related classes their ability to cast prepared spells, in exchange of limiting their access to turn undead and similar abilities (because, of course, that means Charisma becomes a dump stat now). This is probably a huge change, because while the typical Paladin or Blackguard has some restrictions in the amount of spells it knows, the serene Paladin or the intuitive Blackguard can prepare the right spell for the right moment...but the spell slots are limited. Going with 6th level spell slots would make Serenity the better choice against regular spellcasting, since the sheer amount of spells you could prepare would overcome the loss of Turn Undead by quite a bit.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Charging Smite
All divine warriors gain the ability to smite their opponents in differing ways. However, sometimes, the best way to deal damage to your enemy is by rushing to them and delivering one solid strike.
Level: Paladin, blackguard, justiciar or anarch 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th or 20th.
Replaces: Smite Evil, Smite Good, Verdict or Entropic Strike (see below)
Benefit: At 1st level, or at any level you may choose a new smite ability, you may instead choose to learn how to make a charging smite. To use this ability, you must make a charge. You may use this ability if you charge with a mount.
When using a charging smite, you deal the smite damage to your enemy based on your alignment (thus, a paladin would deal smite damage to evil enemies), and you gain a free bull rush attempt with the ability. If the enemy is of an alignment that opposes yours (such as an evil creature against a paladin), you double your Strength bonus on your charge attempt.
At 5th level, you deal twice your smite damage when you make a charging smite.
At 15th level, when using a charging smite, you may make a full attack at the end of your charge. The enemy need not oppose your alignment to gain the benefit of this full attack action, but if it does, all successful attacks done within this full attack action deal extra smite damage. You add your Charisma modifier to all attacks dealt with this full attack action against creatures that oppose your alignment as well.
Unlike other forms of smite evil, smite good, verdict or entropic strike, if you strike an enemy that does not oppose your alignment (such as a paladin attacking a neutral or good creature), you still expend one encounter use of your smiting ability. You do not expend your smite if you fail your charge attack; at 15th level, you do not gain a full attack at the end of your charge if you fail your first attack, but you do not lose an encounter use of your charge either.

So yeah: Charging Smite has been replaced with a much more fitting ability. The original was pretty good, mind you, but this one does better because of a few things.

For starters, it allows any of the divine champions to use their smites against non-opposing alignment enemies. So, this makes smite partly effective against those pesky true neutral guys. Second, it grants pounce. I know you love pounce. While late AND limited to per-encounter uses, the fact that you can make a full attack action while mounted (something that, IIRC, regular pounce doesn't grant), you add your Cha to attack rolls on all the attacks (including Snap Kick/Haste) and you add all that damage to the smite. That last one should make all uber-charger lovers cackle with glee.

I do heartily recommend one thing, though; if there's a way to work Ride-by Attack so that you can do multiple attacks, do so. That way, your smite becomes an area attack, limited as long as your mount or your own speed allows you to (but specifically your mount, or your phantom steed if you wish to go with style.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Ranged Smite
The power of a divine warrior's faith usually manifests through their weapon. Some divine warriors' smiting abilities aren't as strong or varied, but they have a better weapon at their arsenal; range.
Level: Paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar 5th, 10th, 15th or 20th
Replaces: Smite evil, smite good, verdict or entropic strike (see below)
Benefit: At 5th level, or at any level you may choose a new smite ability, you may instead choose to learn how to extend the range of your known smite abilities.
When choosing this option, you gain the ability to make smites with any thrown or projectile weapon. The smite is treated by all means as if it were a normal smite, except the range increases to the range of the weapon. In the case of thrown weapons, you may throw your weapon up to a distance equal to the range of your divine aura, fiendish aura, sanction or entropic aura, but only when making the smite.
At 15th level, you may choose to improve your ranged smites. You can make a ranged smite with your melee weapon, but only up to a distance equal to the range of your aura. When using your melee weapon to make the attack, you deal damage as if the enemy was within reach of your weapon, but you don't add any extra damage from your weapon special qualities (except for the weapon's enhancement bonus).

This one is simple: instead of gaining a new smite, you further improve your existing smites so that they are usable at range.

...So yeah, I know there's a feat that allows you to smite at a distance (Book of Exalted Deeds has it), but it limits you to projectile weapons. And it costs a feat. Then there's also the Elven Paladin ranged smite evil exchange, but that one blows (you can't make melee smites, in any case).

However, the last one doesn't really exist. This allows you to make a smite within range with no ranged weapon. Ever seen the moves from Final Fantasy Tactics, the "Holy Sword" and "Dark Sword" and "Mighty Sword" and how Orland(ea)u creamed just about everyone with that? Well, this allows you to do something similar, except you DON'T need only swords to do so.

So, you can choose to go as a dwarf, throw your hammer to an enemy, smite that enemy and remain where you stand, or you can just think you're Orland(ea)u delivering brutal strikes to an enemy. And in the case of area-of-effect powers, on several enemies.

The only one that doesn't really need this is the Justiciar, because verdict already works this way. However, this does allow the Justiciar to use his verdict with a ranged weapon AND add that damage, so it's not really that bad. The only ability that might not work is Charging Smite, BUT you might combine it with one of the feats from Miniatures Handbook and pull off a Charging Ranged Smite against a single enemy before getting to the other one.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Mark of Punishment
The ability to smite a creature that opposes the creed of the divine champion stems from a swift, powerful burst of divine energy coming straight from the representatives of Chaos, Good, Evil or Law, and manifesting through conviction. Some, however, transform that surge of energy into a baleful mark that punishes their foolishness for defying them.
Level: Paladin, blackguard, justiciar or anarch 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th.
Replaces: Smite Evil, Smite Good, Verdict or Entropic Strike (see below)
Benefit: Once per day, a divine champion (Paladin, Blackguard, Justiciar or Anarch) can impose a mark against an enemy that opposes its creed. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target to mark. If the creature opposes the divine champion's alignment (or in the case of a Justiciar, if it has committed a crime), the champion may add its Charisma modifier to its attack rolls and deal extra damage equal to its class level with each attack. An anarch instead deals an extra 1d6 points of damage, plus 1d6 points of damage for every five class levels (2d6 at 5th level, 3d6 at 10th level, and so on). The mark causes a surge of divine energy to pour into the wound, enabling the divine champion to ignore damage reduction regardless of the source (including DR X/-). The mark lasts until the enemy is slain or until 24 hours have passed (if the marked creature survives the encounter).
At 5th level, the divine champion attunes itself to the mark with little to no mental effort. The divine champion always knows the location of the creature; by spending a full-round action in concentration, the divine champion knows the exact direction and relative distance of the creature marked. If the creature is within range of the divine champion's aura (such as the paladin's divine aura, the blackguard's profane aura, the justiciar's sanction or the anarch's anarchic aura), the divine champion always pinpoints the location even if blinded, or if the creature is invisible. This also allows the champion to ignore miss chances caused by concealment or some spells (including the Displacement spell but not the Blur spell), but does not allow it to deliver sneak attacks or other kinds of precision damage that resemble sneak attack.
At 10th level, the divine champion may expend two daily uses of this ability. When doing so, he may extend the benefit of this ability to any ally within line of sight; all allies gain the ability to see the mark, gain a bonus to their attack rolls equal to the divine champion's Charisma modifier, and deal extra damage equal to half the divine champion's class level.
At 15th level, the divine champion may expend two daily uses of this ability and mark all opponents within the area, instead of just one, with the same swift action. By expending a third daily use of this ability, the divine champion allows all allies to gain the benefit of this ability against all marked enemies (as if activating the 10th level benefit of this ability and the 15th level benefit of this ability at the same time).
A divine champion gains an extra use of this ability every five character levels. Furthermore, at 5th level, and every ten levels afterwards (such as 15th level), the divine champion gains twice the daily uses instead. Thus, a 10th level divine champion may use this ability four times per day, while a 15th level divine champion may use this ability six times per day. If the ability is used on a creature that does not oppose the divine champion's alignment, the ability has no effect but is not wasted; in the case of the 15th level benefit of this ability, the uses are expended but only affect creatures opposing the divine champion's alignment (even if only one).

So yeah...remember I mentioned that THE PATHFINDER PALADIN'S SMITE EVIL IS NO SMITE!!!1!111!, right? I envisioned it as a mark, in which you could essentially gain bonuses against a single enemy of your choice, beating it in record time, but not that BOOOMPH! which implies a smite. You know, the lightning strike, the pillar of light, the choral "AAAAAAAH!!"... However, I must admit it's not a bad ability. Quite the contrary; it is quite good, perhaps very good for what it offers (essentially, you increase your damage by an amount equal to your class level, and even 10 extra points are pretty powerful). However, it's not really "daily" material because of a few things.

For starters, it affects only one enemy. The damage scales formidably, but if you can already kill your enemy in one blow, the smite gets essentially wasted in one turn, which albeit awesome, really doesn't merit a daily restriction. You could make that ability work once per encounter, keep the same ol' progression, and it wouldn't be overpowered because you'd be restricted to one or two uses per encounter.

The second is the limited amount of creatures it affects; now, evil creatures are quite extensive, but some of the most dangerous creatures aren't affected (constructs, for example, aren't affected aside from the retriever, and Inevitables are lawful, not evil; likewise, oozes and plants can be a menace AND neutral, gem dragons aren't evil by any sense of the word, and you can't affect neutral NPCs). While you can still hit quite a lot of the enemies in just about any Monster Manual, Bestiary or whatnot, it's not something that could really merit a daily restriction, no matter how hard you can hit with a full attack, or that you can deal double damage to undead, evil outsiders and evil dragons (yet what about the evil aberrations? The Beholders, the Aboleths, the Mindflayers?).

The third, of course, is how limited the effect is at first. Sure, by...well, 13th-16th level you'll have enough uses for one day, but it's those first few levels which will be a headache. You'll have to store that smite for the most dangerous enemy of them all, or if not essentially force the group to rest before time. At 4th level you get two uses, but still 4 encounters/day; 7th level is a bit more decent with the uses, and you get the second iterative one level earlier but until then you need to gauge exactly WHEN to pull the ability and when to keep it reserved. Compare to Leading the Charge or Tactics of the Wolf, which offer similar abilities but are applicable at-will and work with all allies (and in the case of the latter, the amount of times it can be applied far outweigh the reduced damage).

I've always considered Rage as THE way to gauge a daily ability. Despite the restrictions, the benefits far outweigh the losses. Just that it applies to every creature, not just a few ones, makes it a great daily ability despite the lower damage provided. The PF "Smite", on the other hand, provides lots of goodies but against a single creature, and then the sinking feeling that you could have gotten a spell to do just that (and with more uses). BTW, Righteous Might is a 5th level Cleric spell, and actually a daily.

The good thing is that the PF "Smite" really didn't need much to improve. Really. Just to provide an ability to affect all allies, a benefit that would affect all allies (like what the PF Paladin gets at 10th level), and something that would affect that one thing that can ruin everything; miss chances. Suddenly, being marked for death by the Paladin, or the Blackguard, becomes even more dangerous. That is what I aimed for when I translated that ability here, because, hey, it's pretty good for what its worth. Besides, the Project Heretica divine champion classes are meant to compete with the big guys; the uberchargers, the Half-Giant Fighters wielding Fullblades and dealing 3d8+33 points with Power Attack while still having a +11 to attack rolls, the Barbarians... While I was sorely disappointed that such an outcome wasn't what happened, I made the adjustments, and now they should be competitive; the Smite still was surprising, effectively locking down the enemy (something I find more important than just dealing damage).

So, I should thank Gnaeus in one way or another. I really don't like the feel of the PF Paladin, and I feel that there's something that still makes it weak in terms of build (I blame the lack of feat support for that; they still have feat starvation). But, he helped me somewhat gauge exactly what I felt was wrong with the Smite, and translate it into something that may work right. This is really for the guys who want to play a Project Heretica divine champion with the feel of a Pathfinder character, and I have the distinct impression that this version is far stronger and worth a daily slot.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Winged Warrior
Being a down-to-earth warrior, the divine warrior suffers when an enemy attacks from a flying mount or otherwise places distance while keeping them grounded. Some divine warriors breach the skies by their own willpower, but sacrifice some of their resolve alongside it.
Level: Paladin or Blackguard 4th, 9th, 14th and 19th
Replaces: Stand upon Adversity or Thrive in Pain
Benefit: At 4th level, you gain the ability to manifest a pair of ethereal wings as a move action. These wings spread from your back, but their nature allows you to wear any kind of armor with them. This allows you to gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed with good maneuverability. You may manifest these wings for a number of rounds equal to your class level, and these rounds need not be consecutive. A paladin manifests bird-like wings (white or gold) while a blackguard manifests bat-like wings (red or black).
At 9th level, the duration of this ability is determined by minutes instead of rounds. At 14th level, the duration increases to hours per class level, and at 19th level this ability is permanent. If the wings become permanent, you may still hide them as a move action and manifest them later, but you lose your flight abilities while the wings are hidden.

Well, I won't let the wings effort be wasted. This revision, though, allowed me to play with the class ability a bit more; instead of arbitrary limitations such as uses per day, now I can give it a much more reasonable limitation (rounds per day, then minutes per day, then hours per day). Using them a few rounds per day at 4th level may not seem much, but the progression is quite natural.

In fact, I wonder why I didn't thought of this before?

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Valiant Steed
The image of a knight in shining armor cannot be complete without riding a valiant steed. The forces that grant the divine warriors their powers also endow them with the ability to summon a mount from the Upper (or Lower) Planes, which improves with the warrior.
Level: Paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar 4th, 9th, 14th and 19th
Replaces: Stand upon Adversity, Thrive in Pain
Special: If you choose this class feature, you may not learn or use the air walk, mount or phantom steed spells.
Benefit: You gain the services of a strong, unusually intelligent and loyal steed to serve you on your battles. The mount assumes at first the form of a heavy warhorse (for Medium creatures) or warpony (for Small creatures), but you may choose other options (such as a riding dog, or a Medium shark if the campaign is primarily aquatic). You may not choose magical beasts at first, but you may choose to transform your mount into such creatures as you progress in levels.

At 4th level, you may summon your mount once per day as a full-round action. Your mount appears alongside you and remains with you for 2 hours per class level, or until you dismiss it. The mount is a typical mount of its type and subtype (thus, a heavy warhorse is treated as an animal), except for the following traits: the mount gains a bonus on its hit points equal to half your own, is treated as if having 2 extra HD for purposes of base attack bonus, saving throws and determining the creature's HD for purposes of spells that might affect it. The mount's Intelligence increases to 6 if not already higher, gains a +2 bonus on Strength and a +4 bonus to its natural armor (which stacks with enhancement bonuses to natural armor). You and your mount may communicate empathically for up to 1 mile, as a spellcaster does with its familiar.

At 9th level, your mount is treated as if it had 4 extra HD (not two), its Intelligence increases to 8, it gains a +4 bonus on Strength and a +6 bonus to natural armor. You may choose one bonus feat, but this feat only applies to your mount and your mount must comply with the prerequisites for this feat. The mount's base land speed increases by 10 feet, and gains the ability to move unimpeded by terrain (as if it had the woodland stride class ability). Furthermore, you may share a spell you cast on yourself with your mount, and your mount uses the best of its saving throws or yours. If you decide, you may summon one of the following mounts, but you are treated as a paladin of 5 levels lower for purposes of determining what abilities to gain: dire boar, dire wolf, dire wolverine, giant lizard, Large monstrous spider or rhinoceros. A Small character may choose a dire badger, dire weasel or Medium monstrous spider. If on aquatic campaigns, you may choose a Large shark or porpoise.

At 14th level, your mount is treated as if it had 6 extra HD (not four), its Intelligence increases to 10 (and it gains the ability to speak the languages you speak, regardless of Intelligence), it gains a +6 bonus on Strength and a +8 bonus to natural armor. You may choose up to two bonus feats (instead of one), but these feats only applies to your mount and your mount must comply with the prerequisites for this feat. The mount's base land speed increases by 20 feet (instead of 10). As well, it gains the benefit of the celestial (if paladin), fiendish (if blackguard), axiomatic (if justiciar, see Manual of the Planes) or anarchic (if anarch, see Manual of the Planes) template. As well, the mount gains the ability to walk on air as if it had the air walk spell cast upon, which lasts for the entirety of the duration. You may dismiss your mount and summon it at a later time; the rounds in which your mount may be summoned need not be consecutive. If you decide, you may summon one of the following mounts, but you are treated as a paladin of 10 levels lower for purposes of determining what abilities to gain: bulette, dire lion, hippogriff or wyvern. A paladin may choose between a giant eagle or giant owl, while a blackguard may choose between a nightmare or a winter wolf. A Small creature may choose between a dire bat or monitor lizard; a Small blackguard may choose a worg instead. In the case of aquatic creatures, you may choose a sea cat.

At 19th level, your mount is treated as if it had 8 extra HD (not four), its Intelligence increases to 12, it gains a +8 bonus on Strength and a +12 bonus to natural armor. You may choose up to three bonus feats (instead of two), but these feats only applies to your mount and your mount must comply with the prerequisites for this feat. The mount's base land speed increases by 30 feet (instead of 20), and all other speeds increase by 10 feet. The mount gains spell resistance equal to your own. Twice per day, your mount may use a plane shift effect on itself and you, allowing you to transport to any plane of existence. If you decide, you may summon one of the following mounts, but you are treated as a character of 15 levels lower for purposes of determining what abilities to gain: dire tiger or gryphon. A paladin may choose between a pegasus or a unicorn (the latter only to female or elf riders, and is treated as a celestial charger), while a blackguard may choose between a cauchemar or a displacer beast. In the case of aquatic creatures, you may choose a dire shark instead.

If your mount falls in battle, you lose the benefits of this ability for one week. If you have a feat that improves the traits of summoned or called creatures (such as Augment Summoning), this ability is treated as if a conjuration (calling or summoning) spell for those purposes. This is a spell-like ability.

And here it is; the glorious return of the special mount! If you've noticed, the special mount is even more powerful than before, if only because I worked with the options in the DMG, plus added the benefits from Phantom Steed. At level 19th, if your heavy warhorse isn't taking you to Hell and back (literally), it ain't a cool steed.

The reason I made such a huge description was to fully define the abilities of the mount, but do notice that it's slightly better than the description on the paladin's special mount class feature. You do lose a few abilities (namely, the ability to use air walk, mount or phantom steed, because the abilities that you gain clearly outpace what you'd otherwise gain.

Now: what if you have feats or class abilities that power your special mount? Well, this is basically your special mount, so those levels stack. Also, it's treated as a summoned creature, so if you want, you can go for Augment Summoning and call it a day.

Now...why not go for fiendish servant? I'd really love to, but that would take me about four more paragraphs, and I still haven't gone over the remaining ACFs.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Blade Spirit
The soul of the warrior is its weapon, some sword masters would say. If that is true, then the soul of a divine warrior is just as powerful as its owner. Or rather, a manifestation of the divine warrior's unyielding spirit.
Level: Paladin, blackguard, justiciar or anarch 4th, 9th, 14th and 19th.
Replaces: Stand upon Adversity or Thrive in Pain
Special: If you choose this ability, you may not learn or use magic weapon, greater magic weapon or holy sword, lawful sword.
Benefit: At 4th level, you create a bond with a weapon of your choice. This weapon must be a masterwork weapon with which you have proficiency. You must meditate for 8 hours with your weapon, only stopping to eat. If you are to engage in battle, you must engage only with this weapon and no other. If you wish to change your weapon, you may make this ritual with the new weapon but you must have the old one nearby. If the weapon is broken or destroyed, you must make the ritual with a shard of the old weapon.

At 4th level, the weapon gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls, and deals damage as a magic weapon of your alignment (good for paladins, evil for blackguards, lawful for justiciar or chaotic for anarchs). You may draw or summon your weapon as a swift action from any place. If you make a successful critical hit with your weapon, the attack is automatically confirmed. Your weapon shines as bright as a torch if you're good, or distorts your image if evil (the latter granting a +5 bonus to Hide checks).

At 9th level, the weapon's enhancement bonus increases to +3 and gains the axiomatic (if a justiciar), anarchic (if an anarch), holy (if a paladin) or unholy (if a blackguard) special quality. As well, you are treated as if having a protection from evil spell relative to your alignment aura while wielding the weapon.

At 14th level, your weapon becomes an extension of yourself, gaining intellect. Your weapon gains Intelligence 10 and scores in Wisdom and Charisma equal to 10 + 1 for every four class levels. The weapon is of your same alignment, can see and hear for 60 ft. as well as see in the darkness. When you first reach 14th level, you may choose two lesser powers from the list of Intelligent items and a weapon special quality that does not exceed a +2 enhancement bonus or 8,000 gp. Your weapon can speak and understand any languages you speak. The personality of your weapon is defined at the moment you reach 14th level, and may have a mentoring personality, a companion personality or a much closer personality (perhaps a reflection of someone you love or admire), but usually informs you of actions that may threaten your alignment, as if you wielded a phylactery of faithfulness.

At 19th level, your weapon gains a +5 enhancement bonus. If you make a critical hit with your weapon against an enemy of your opposed alignment, you deal 1d10 points of damage plus 1d10 for every critical multiplier above x2. Furthermore, your weapon emits a constant magic circle against evil effect. Finally, your weapon gains telepathy and blindsense up to 60 ft., and you may choose one power from the greater power list.

If your weapon is more than 1 mile away from you or is worn by someone you don't know, it loses all its benefits until it returns to your hand or you summon it (your weapon may still be summoned, as usual). You may lend your weapon to an ally, but your weapon will try to exert its will upon your ally if it acts against the item's alignment. If a creature that opposes your alignment wields the weapon, it gains 1 negative level, plus 1 negative level for every five class levels above 4th (2 negative levels at 9th level, 3 negative levels at 14th level, and so on). Your weapon loses all abilities if you are within an antimagic field except for the ability to be summoned and the phylactery of faithfulness effect (which is manifested as an empathic feeling). If you exchange weapons, all benefits are likewise exchanged between weapons, but otherwise all choices, once made, are permanent and may not be changed.

So, as I promised, I'd do something that would resemble, or rather, steal draw inspiration from the Pathfinder Paladin divine bond class feature. Of course, I find it a bit weak and limited so I decided to work it under the Retooling Workshop (tm), and this is the result.

Yep, it's an intelligent weapon. I can already hear the DMs claiming "OMG H4X!!11!!!!!one!11!" And to an extent...well, it's true. It's basically an intelligent Holy Avenger with permanent bless weapon, plus a phylactery of faithfulness, that just happens to have +2 worth of special enhancements. This makes pretty much anything cry foul, except probably the special mount which is just as cool.

There are a few things, of course. It's only a weapon, not a shield or piece of equipment; however, you can exchange which weapon gains the ability. It will be the same weapon each time, but not the same weapon shape, so, Orcrist the Bloodbane weapon can at first be a bastard sword, then later a greataxe, and later a composite longbow, but it'll be the same Orcrist, the Bloodbane. Another is that you don't need to spend any XP or GP for it, so as long as it's a masterwork weapon; you can make it mithral or adamantine or cold iron or silver, but it'll be the same weapon. And let's face it, it's a very strong weapon what you're wielding.

Of course, this goes with a few exchanges, and what it loses...well... You lose Magic Weapon and Holy Sword (if a Paladin), but the greatest lost might be Greater Magic Weapon. I might even remove Bless Weapon and similar spells if necessary; you're focusing the power of all those spells into creating a new weapon.

Now, if you think the benefits greatly outweigh the penalties (and let's face it, it's either a cool mount, a cool weapon, or not dying 1/encounter or exploding into pieces if you die), you can decide what else might serve as a penalty. It IS a powerful pair of abilities, after all.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Divine Spirit
Paladins, in their crusade against evil, often find themselves facing more than they can handle. Although they are formidable warriors and leaders, sometimes their allies need some assistance. The forces of Good provide a Paladin with a powerful boon from the Upper Planes, but this boon often makes Paladins less resolute than their peers.
Level: Paladin 4th, 9th, 14th or 19th
Replaces: Stand upon Adversity
Benefit:At 4th level, you may summon a celestial spirit from your deity or your patrons to aid in the battle against evil. You may summon this spiritual aid as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Once summoned, the spirit provides its benefits for a number of rounds equal to the paladin's class level; the rounds need not be consecutive, and the paladin can spread the aid provided by the spirit upon different rounds.
The spirit, once summoned, occupies a 5 ft. step in the map within 30 feet of you. You may command the spirit to move up to 30 ft. as a free action. The spirit is insubstantial and translucent; it does not block line of sight or line of effect and any creature may pass through it freely. The summoned spirit is treated as a summoned creature for purposes of spells or effects that may dispel it (such as banishment or dispel good), but otherwise it may not be attacked and takes no damage from any spell or effect. You may summon this spiritual aid a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier, plus one for every five class levels after the 4th.
All spirits have a "discharge" effect, which immediately dismisses them. If you choose to "discharge" a spirit, you may not summon it again until the next day. If you discharge the effect of all spirits you have access to, you may not use this ability even if you have remaining uses. Dismissing a spirit does not necessarily discharge its effect.

At 4th level, you may summon a spirit of fervor. When summoned, any ally (including yourself) that stays within 5 feet of the spirit gains a sacred bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls equal to your Charisma modifier. At 9th level, your weapons deal damage as if they were good-aligned and magical; at 14th level, your weapons deal an extra 1d6 points of damage against evil creatures, and at 19th level, you may discharge this spirit to grant all allies within 5 feet of the spirit a number of temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier.

At 9th level, you may summon a spirit of healing. When you summon this spirit, you gain the ability to use lay on hands on range, using the spirit as if it were yourself for purposes of creatures you may touch; thus, you may use your lay on hands on any creature within 5 feet of the spirit. At 14th level, any ally that begins its turn in the same square as the spirit heals hit points equal to your Charisma modifier, and at 19th level, you may discharge the spirit to heal a number of hit points equal to 4d8 plus your class level to all allies within a 30 foot burst (including yourself).

At 14th level, you may summon a spirit of resilience. Any ally within 10 feet of this spirit gains the benefit of the Diehard feat and damage reduction equal to half your class level, which can only be defeated by magic weapons of evil alignment. At 19th level, you may discharge this spirit to grant a single ally the benefit of a stoneskin spell cast as a spellcaster of your class level, except there is no cap in the number of hit points that can be resisted, you add your Charisma modifier to your effective caster level to determine the maximum amount of hit points, and the damage reduction is defeated by a magic adamantine weapon of evil alignment (thus, a 19th level with Charisma 24 grants an ally DR 10/magic, evil and adamantine until it has absorbed 250 hit points worth of damage). This benefit lasts until the end of the encounter. You may not benefit from this spiritual aid, unlike with others.

At 19th level, you may summon a spirit of the fallen. If an ally falls below 0 hit points or lower, the spirit heals the ally at the start of its next turn, allowing it to take actions automatically. The spirit heals a number of hit points equal to twice your paladin level plus your Charisma modifier. The spirit may not revive allies whose hit points are -10 or lower, that have been destroyed (such as by a disintegrate spell), whom have suffered a bodily change (such as flesh to stone or baleful polymorph) or that have been slain by means other than hit point damage. If you decide to discharge this spirit, the ally gains the benefit of a raise dead or a heal spell, whichever applies.

So yeah; I love what the devs did with Divine Spirit. While it had its limitations, you could use it just about any time and gain some pretty decent benefits; the ability to heal at a distance, deal more damage, have the paladin be really resilient, and even keep others in combat. Considering the wealth of options you could use with Divine Spirit, the mount was really something lacking; yeah, you could do damage, but this allowed you to survive one serious encounter, and actually be useful for once. However, when you compare it to special mount or getting a free intelligent weapon or the ability to fly at will or the ability to not die, Divine Spirit really lost part of its utility.

Thus, I decided to buff it up real good. For starters, the paladin has options on which spirit to summon and how many times per day. Second, the paladin has options that tie to its abilities and that don't replace stuff like divine aura; you can have your aura and the spirit at the same time. Third, the options increase with level, so all four spirits remain relevant on their respective levels.

And then, there's the discharge. Gained at the end of your career, the spirit discharges allow you to gain a potent, but brief, benefit. The first spirit's benefit may not seem as much, but it's still worthwhile. But, getting stuff like mass cure serious wounds, stoneskin, heal or even raise dead through discharging the spirit once per day really make you think what's better for the encounter. It also makes the Paladin slightly better at buffing.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Hands of a Healer
While all paladins have a task to heal the wounds struck by fell creatures and evil warriors, some are more dedicated to the task than others. Such paladins are devotees of gods of healing, or exist within places devoid of healers which can aid those who are wounded or stricken with disease.
Level: Paladin 7th
Replaces: Lay on Hands
Benefit: You add your Charisma modifier to all Heal checks. As well, whenever you cast a spell of the healing subschool, you add your Charisma modifier to the amount of healing granted by the spell. Only spells cast from spell slots granted to the Paladin gain the benefit of this ability; spells cast from cleric spell slots or from other classes that grant healing spells are not affected.

An ACF more in line with what the devs originally intended for (in terms of the mechanic), Hands of a Healer is really a very minor boost that you grant to all spells you cast. While not as powerful as Lay on Hands and its boosted healing, any spell of the healing subschool heals for a little bit more, providing for better out-of-combat healing (or even in-combat healing, if desperate). Of course, only a few spells work for this, so it may seem like a bad exchange, but it has no limitations and the Cleric spell list has quite a few such spells. Example? Restoration. So, you lose some of the potent healing of Lay on Hands, and in exchange you power up Restoration. So it's a bit more extense; it just requires the right choices.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Touch of the Fallen
Most blackguards sap the life of their enemies with a touch. However, some blackguards instead receive a foul gift from their unholy patrons that empowers their manipulation of negative energy.
Level: Blackguard 7th
Replaces: Vampiric touch
Benefit: A blackguard that takes this ability adds his Charisma modifier to the amount of damage dealt by all inflict spells and spells that deal negative energy damage. A number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier, you may expend one of your spell slots as a swift action to imbue your next attack with an inflict spell of the same level as the spell slot expended. The attack deals its normal damage plus the spell's damage (including the increased damage from your Charisma modifier). Only attacks made by weapons are affected by this ability (including natural weapons, but not unarmed strikes). You may use this ability with a ranged weapon, but it applies only to one thrown or projectile weapon (in the case you have the Manyshot feat or another ability that allows you to make more than one attack at the same time); you may choose which arrow gains the benefit of this ability.

And here's the counterpart to Hands of a Healer. Not only do you get an increase to damage from inflict spells, but you can use those spells to deal increased damage. Think of it as an extra "smite", but using inflict spells.

Now, while Hands of a Healer provides a bonus to negative energy damage, Touch of the Fallen only applies to hit point damage. Not ability damage, not ability drain, and especially NOT ENERVATION (or, as it's known, negative levels). Only negative energy hit point damage. Otherwise, this would be pretty broken. Otherwise, this is pretty straightforward.

So, this is the HUGE dump of ACFs thus far. Comments and suggestions are always welcome. The next will not be an introduction of a new class, but rather the explanation behind the chassis system and how it has influenced my 'brewing. So, in many ways, it's a treatise on homebrewing.

By the way; this is what's missing:
Immobilizing Smite, Fiendish Servant, more options for Justiciars and Anarchs. Ideas are welcome.

[Gideon Falcon]

Very well done. The Paladin makes an excellent Tank, although I also like Paladin concepts that focus more on the smiting than the invincibility, but that's basically the other side of the coin, being the offense to your defense.

[ErrantX]

Another bad@$$ work here sir. I need to get it another thorough reading over to comment more than this, but I will say I love how you rearranged some of the basic class features and removed Aura of Courage; your replacement is as elegant as it is effective. Good work!

-X

[Cieyrin]

Another two things come to my mind about the Project: 1) Justicars and Anarchs having their 'smites' vary depending on alignment is a bit off to me, in that the variance is based off of their hit dice. I mean, why would they get more vulnerable to opposing effects the stronger they get? You'd think they'd be more deeply set into their ways and thus resistant to such opposition. I'd make the vulnerability based off of the Justicar/Anarch's class level instead, as showing that they're becoming an ever more powerful representative of their chosen force of belief, making those opposed to it that much more easily overwhelmed.

2) Checkmate's Light is a pain to find, as I found it in a web article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040915a), which you should really link to if that's the source for it. Also, it's a bit more powerful than the rest of the counterparts, as it gives you full out Axiomatic for that +2d6 damage against chaotic opponents, which none of the others remotely touch. There's a reason it's listed at Paladin 3 and I think lowering to Paladin-equivalent 1 is a bit much. Maybe Justicar 2 would be better and making the equivalent of Bless Weapon to fit with the rest.

[T.G. Oskar]

Another two things come to my mind about the Project: 1) Justicars and Anarchs having their 'smites' vary depending on alignment is a bit off to me, in that the variance is based off of their hit dice. I mean, why would they get more vulnerable to opposing effects the stronger they get? You'd think they'd be more deeply set into their ways and thus resistant to such opposition. I'd make the vulnerability based off of the Justicar/Anarch's class level instead, as showing that they're becoming an ever more powerful representative of their chosen force of belief, making those opposed to it that much more easily overwhelmed.

I'll have to be pointed on that. Both basically have the following: the save DC is pretty vanilla (10 + 1/2 class level + modifier), but characters that are from the opposing alignments take a further penalty to the save. I can see it within the Justiciar (the penalty actually based on the other character's HD or levels), but the Anarch is exactly as you intend to (based off the Anarch's character level, hence the "HD or anarch class level" thing). So I should really change the clause on the Justiciar, not the Anarch.


2) Checkmate's Light is a pain to find, as I found it in a web article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040915a), which you should really link to if that's the source for it. Also, it's a bit more powerful than the rest of the counterparts, as it gives you full out Axiomatic for that +2d6 damage against chaotic opponents, which none of the others remotely touch. There's a reason it's listed at Paladin 3 and I think lowering to Paladin-equivalent 1 is a bit much. Maybe Justicar 2 would be better and making the equivalent of Bless Weapon to fit with the rest.

It's also on Spell Compendium (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells&tablefilter=checkmate%27s), and it's much weaker. Still, it's meant to be a Paladin 2 spell, so I guess I should raise it a bit. The SpC version is basically Greater Magic Weapon, except with half the benefit of Bless Weapon alongside it (and light). I oddly had the idea that it worked just like Bless Weapon, though. I'll do that change, but it's not as powerful as the original (which basically became Lawful Sword, the Lawful equivalent of Holy Sword).

That reminds me, tho: I should raidcheck the Paladin and Blackguard spell lists for spells that Justiciars and Anarchs could use without problems. Basically, an extension to which spells to use based off the Spell Compendium.

[Gideon Falcon]

Now all we need is a Bard fix to supply our Hero's theme song. Course, I just want a Bard fix anyway, but you and jiriku are the ones I know could manage it.

[Seerow]

Now all we need is a Bard fix to supply our Hero's theme song. Course, I just want a Bard fix anyway, but you and jiriku are the ones I know could manage it.

Why would you need a bard fix? Bards are already a solid class as is, no buffs or changes needed.

[T.G. Oskar]

Why would you need a bard fix? Bards are already a solid class as is, no buffs or changes needed.

I agree. In fact, it serves as a testament to how splatbooks can make a class that's already decent (though not gamebreaking) even better. Since their two best abilities are gained at first level (Inspire Courage and spellcasting), they get great skill points and loads of great skills (including and not limited to UMD), they do well. The higher-level abilities are no slouch either, but since most people complement their builds with PrCs nowadays, few can be said about optimizing a Bard 20 build. They're good from 1st level (with their songs), through 8th level (when they already get a good amount of 3rd level spells including Haste, and another boost to IC) and even through 14th (third increase of IC, a decent selection of 5th level spells). That they gain natural access to stuff like Dragonfire Inspiration and Sublime Chord just adds to their power, not reduces.

If I were to provide support to the Bard, it would be through ACFs, probably reducing spellcasting capability (but not that much, so as to make them non-spellcasting based) to provide more variety in songs. That's why I support loads of ACFs. Now, that doesn't mean I can't make a class that's basically the anti-Bard (a debuffer instead of a buffer), though Dragon Compendium's Jester is pretty close. That, or a Battle Dancer that's thematically similar to the Final Fantasy series Dancer (debuffing dances and martial capability, probably some maneuvers) to complement the bard. But it would be based thematically from the Bard, which is already quite good. I don't intend to touch a lot of stuff Tier 3 or higher, since they're already quite good, though I might tackle one or two just in case.

Still working on the changes; I have a good idea regarding smites now that I have them all (plus the Charging Smite and the immobilizing smite ACFs), perhaps turn the wings into an ACF and provide something at that level related to heroism, and dealing with the auras to equalize them a bit. I only need to redact them, before showing for inspection.

[Gideon Falcon]

Huh. I guess I was just misinformed. I just remember a lot of stuff about bards being useless, but I guess I was just confusing people talking about their lack of combat ability in and of themselves.

[Lyndworm]

Bards are on the bad end of mediocre in Core (they still beat fighters if played correctly, and leave monks in the dust easily). Once you get splat books involved, however... They're actually quite versatile and strong. Their fluff can be sort of silly, but I actually really like them and they're very useful.



I still love what you're doing here, Oskar. I've been lurking, but I don't have anything constructive to add (hence no posts).

[Gideon Falcon]

Also, I hope you don't mind me drawing heavy inspiration from this for my Soulborn fix. After all, they're pretty much just a Paladin variant using Incarnum instead of spellcasting.

[T.G. Oskar]

Also, I hope you don't mind me drawing heavy inspiration from this for my Soulborn fix. After all, they're pretty much just a Paladin variant using Incarnum instead of spellcasting.

Well, you see...I only got one word for you.

Zealot.

For a better explanation: it's a retooling to the Soulborn based on the "divine champion" chassis, but with a focus on Incarnum. It's still incomplete, tho.

EDIT: I guess I was a bit unfair with that answer. What I meant was that I tackled the same thing. Still, if you wish to base yourself on the work, go ahead. Was a bit rough while saying that; giving ideas is just as great, and then there's something that I might not have thought of that you do. Don't get hopeful or disappointed I thought on the same idea; after all, I should be promoting 'brewers, not bashing them off just because I went with the same idea.

[Cieyrin]

I'll have to be pointed on that. Both basically have the following: the save DC is pretty vanilla (10 + 1/2 class level + modifier), but characters that are from the opposing alignments take a further penalty to the save. I can see it within the Justiciar (the penalty actually based on the other character's HD or levels), but the Anarch is exactly as you intend to (based off the Anarch's character level, hence the "HD or anarch class level" thing). So I should really change the clause on the Justiciar, not the Anarch.

Hhmm, perhaps that's my not reading it close enough, then...



It's also on Spell Compendium (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells&tablefilter=checkmate%27s), and it's much weaker. Still, it's meant to be a Paladin 2 spell, so I guess I should raise it a bit. The SpC version is basically Greater Magic Weapon, except with half the benefit of Bless Weapon alongside it (and light). I oddly had the idea that it worked just like Bless Weapon, though. I'll do that change, but it's not as powerful as the original (which basically became Lawful Sword, the Lawful equivalent of Holy Sword).

That reminds me, tho: I should raidcheck the Paladin and Blackguard spell lists for spells that Justiciars and Anarchs could use without problems. Basically, an extension to which spells to use based off the Spell Compendium.

Ah, yeah, that is a marked difference. Not sure why I didn't check SpC, either...

[Gideon Falcon]

Well, you see...I only got one word for you.

Zealot.

For a better explanation: it's a retooling to the Soulborn based on the "divine champion" chassis, but with a focus on Incarnum. It's still incomplete, tho.

EDIT: I guess I was a bit unfair with that answer. What I meant was that I tackled the same thing. Still, if you wish to base yourself on the work, go ahead. Was a bit rough while saying that; giving ideas is just as great, and then there's something that I might not have thought of that you do. Don't get hopeful or disappointed I thought on the same idea; after all, I should be promoting 'brewers, not bashing them off just because I went with the same idea.

Indeed. And, as I said before, I like paladin concepts that have extra damage as well as invincibility, which is what I'm incorporating into my fix. For example, a secondary smite that has daily uses and deals tons of extra damage.

[T.G. Oskar]

Indeed. And, as I said before, I like paladin concepts that have extra damage as well as invincibility, which is what I'm incorporating into my fix. For example, a secondary smite that has daily uses and deals tons of extra damage.

Well, I tried to balance the smite between doing a lot of damage and having rider effects. A daily smite would require a lasting effect (sorta like rage, which I find is a very balanced way to make daily actions useful), but smite implies, by definition, a sudden and immediate effect. That's why I settled for rider effects, but because reserving the smites for daily uses would still cramp the Paladin, I decided for per-encounter uses. The invincibility (or perception of it), on the other hand, is a double-edged sword because it ensures your survival at the toughest battles but generally gets "balanced" by poor damage output which doesn't seem to work on most games (in fact, is there any game where having a good defense surpasses a strong offensive action?); then again, it would be unfair to admit that it's my favored strategy (alongside supporting allies and self for increasing damage output or defensive capabilities).

In the meanwhile: I'll be placing here how I'd deal with the suggestions offered to modify class abilities, mostly smite (since I'd need a bit more time to fine-tune the auras). I'll spoiler them for length (added text on italics).

Smites:
Once per encounter as part of an attack action, a [divine champion] may attempt to smite with one normal melee attack. The [divine champion] adds her Charisma modifier to the attack roll, if successful, the [divine champion] deals extra damage and causes a special effect. At 1st level, a [divine champion] must choose her method of smiting evil amongst the following; once she makes a choice, it is permanent. If the [divine champion] makes a smite as part of a full attack, she may only use it once per round.

Unless stated otherwise, a [divine champion] deals an amount of extra damage equal to her [divine champion] level. As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + half the [divine champion]’s class level + the [divine champion]’s Strength modifier. If the [divine champion] accidentally smites a creature that , smite has no effect but the ability is not used for the day.

[Smite methods]

At 5th level and every five levels afterwards, a [divine champion] gains another use of this ability per encounter. As well, she may choose another method of smiting; at higher levels, a [divine champion] may choose to improve her smites instead.

Other stuff about smites (unspoilered)
The three "common" smiting choices (Charging Smite, Immobilizing Smite and a third I have no idea how to tackle, but may be a buff-based smite perhaps) will be treated as ACFs, meaning you'd have at least 6 options (3 shared, 3 unique).
Should the improved versions of the smites go online at 5th level or 10th level? Devastating versions of the smites would remain at 15th level. That way, all classes can have a strong 2nd tier smite or 2 1st tier smites at 5th level, which would be equated at 10th level. Yet, some of the abilities may seem a tad strong for 5th level and probably not as much for 10th level.

Auras (thus far)
Paladin
Consecration Aura grants a sacred bonus on turning checks and turning damage against undead equal to Charisma modifier, sacred bonus on damage rolls against undead and evil outsiders equal to Charisma modifier, sacred bonus on all saves against undead and evil outsiders equal to half Charisma modifier
Courage Aura remains as-is, at the moment.
Devotion Aura grants morale bonus to AC and Reflex saves equal to Charisma modifier, but the Paladin cannot benefit from this ability (only his/her allies)
Retribution Aura now returns a fixed amount of damage per round equal to Charisma modifier on a per-enemy basis. Ideally, the action should make multiple attacks against the Paladin less harmful than a single attack.
Vigor Aura improves healing spells and effects cast within the area. Effect is equal to Paladin Level + Charisma modifier.

Blackguard
Aura of Covetous and Aura of Cowardice remain as-is, for the moment
Aura of Cruelty now adds a morale bonus to allies' damage rolls equal to Charisma modifier.
Aura of Desecration grants a profane bonus on rebuking checks and rebuking "damage" against undead equal to Charisma modifier, profane bonus on damage rolls against deathless and good outsiders equal to Charisma modifier, profane bonus on all saves against deathless and good outsiders equal to half Charisma modifier
Aura of Vengeance remains as intended

Justiciar and Anarch remain as intended, at the moment.

Other stuff about auras (partly unspoilered)
I'm planning to allow shields to provide a rider benefit to auras. At the moment, this may extend only to the Paladin, but perhaps also improve the auras of all other classes. Improvements would be as follows
[LIST]Consecration Aura would add the shield's enhancement bonus to damage rolls against undead and evil outsiders.
No idea on Courage Aura; morale bonus on AC based on shield's enhancement bonus while under a fear effect?
Devotion Aura would grant the paladin a buffer on reduced damage equal to twice the shield's enhancement bonus per round. Thus, a Paladin can ignore the first 2 points of damage he would otherwise receive with a [I]+1 shield
Retribution Aura would increase the "pool" of damage granted by the aura per enemy per round based on the shield's enhancement bonus. The increase would be equal to the shield's enhancement bonus times the Paladin's Charisma modifier. Thus, a Paladin with 20 Charisma using a +2 shield would be capable of returning 10 HP of damage per round against each enemy (on a per-enemy basis) instead of merely 5 points.
Vigor Aura would increase the amount of healing by an amount equal to 2-3 times the shield's enhancement bonus.
Should I keep the auras' bonuses based off Charisma or base them off Constitution? Charisma still seems the likely choice, but that would make Constitution a much more viable choice, and it would make Constitution the "defensive" stat while Strength would be the "offensive" stat.

9th/14th/19th level class ability (Hero's/Fiendish Wings)
I'm planning to change this ability to something that would be iconic for a Paladin archetype, probably granting the ability at 4th level and keeping a similar progression. Hero's Wings/Fiendish Wings would thus become an Alternate Class Feature that would replace this ability. Thus far, I haven't been capable of figuring what ability would be there that could work well, although a "vanilla" ability based on determination would suffice. Something along the lines of providing bonuses based off the Heroism/Good Hope spell whenever the Paladin reaches half his hit point amount. While it's mostly a bonus and it's as vanilla as it gets, it should be reasonable enough to appeal to the grittier Paladin.

On the other hand, I have a suite of alternate class features related to this ability:
The Hero's Wings/Fiendish Wings ability would be turned into an ACF, retaining the same benefit as before. That way, the Paladin may be a bit less grittier but will have the ability to fly.

Special Mount would return as an ACF tied to this ability, for the charger mounts. However, the mount wouldn't be based on the traditional Paladin mount (for that, you'd need to be on the Cavalier prestige class), but on phantom steed instead.

SHAMELESSLY RIP-OFF Draw inspiration from the Pathfinder Paladin to provide the character with a divinely-bound special weapon. Although I would also love to tackle the Holy Avenger to make it just as awesome.

Redefine the Divine Spirit Alternate Class Feature. I actually would like to use the old Paladin class JUST to use Divine Spirit. The way it was defined made it far more interesting than the mount IMO, and the abilities make for a support-based Paladin.

That would grant about 5 different options for the class, which would further expand the number of builds you can do. I might just make a dump of even more ACFs unique to the Blackguard, Justiciar and Anarch to replace some ACFs that would suit the Paladin even better. By my expectations, I'd see about 20-25 ACFs for all four classes, which I like more and more.

Other class features
Lay on Hands is now a burst-heal done once per encounter rather than a 1/day ability. Ideally, you regain the pool's bonus at the beginning of a combat encounter, and you can spread the points while at it or use them all at once. Vampiric Touch would remain as-is. Submission would likely undergo a similar improvement, though not so sure about Luck of the Draw.
Unyielding Resolve/Undying will now be based off both Charisma AND Constitution. Thus, the maximum amount of negative hit points a character would have is equal to 10 plus half the [divine champion]'s class level + Cha modifier + Constitution modifier. It also tackles nicely a similar class ability for another class that uses the divine champion chassis.
Basing off Divine Punishment and similar abilities off Strength. That makes the stat much more attractive as a secondary class skill. May do the same with Divine Deterrence and related abilities.
Divine Deterrence and related abilities now force a caster level check (against a DC equal to 10 + the [divine champion]'s class level + the [divine champion]'s Strength or Charisma modifier), not a Concentration check. If the caster level fails, the effect works as usual. This would make Divine Deterrence a souped-up spell resistance check, punishing the enemy while at it.

That would be the main changes for now. Let's arbitrarily call this "Patch 1.4" because it's a great deal of changes done for all classes, but the project isn't yet over, and this really feels like a patch notice.

UPDATE: In case someone follows this page for changes, I'll just add this. It'll apply to all Divine Champions, not just the Paladin:
Protector's Might (Ex): A (1st/2nd/3rd) level paladin may add her (Constitution/Charisma) modifier to all damage rolls when wielding a shield. If she wields a tower shield, she may add the modifier to her attack rolls as well.

1st-3rd is the right moment where the ability must appear, since the Paladin has to deal as much damage as fast as possible. Charisma or Constitution is explained above; Charisma is the better score, while Constitution is the score best fit for a shield-using Paladin, since it also improves the auras, which are further improved by the use of a magic shield. The tower shield bit is part of my reasoning; the Paladin had a reasonable to-hit bonus equal to his BAB + his Strength modifier + 1 from the masterwork battleaxe, but had the -2 penalty from the tower shield. This, while reasonable, caused lots of failures because my rolls often were lower than 10 (and at times, lower than 5), so the Paladin could hit once whereas the Fighter could hit twice, EVEN with the smite bonus. I could simply add Cha/Con to attack rolls from the beginning, but there are ways to make the attack bonus increase faster; this is mostly to reduce the penalties from wielding a tower shield and possibly wielding a Large one-handed weapon via Monkey Grip.

[T.G. Oskar]

Alright, gents, so a little bumping is on the place!

The Paladin and the Blackguard have been revised with the new abilities. The changes are on the post above, and the first page has links to most, if not all, classes for easier revision.

As well, I finally finished with the huge ACF dump. As you can see, there's easily about 7-9 ACFs, and the task isn't over yet. Some of the old class abilities (such as special mount and the now-removed flight ability) make their appearance here, while others are simply standard ACFs that exchange one ability for a more flavorful other. And of course, Serenity as an ACF so that you don't have to spend a feat to get Wis to nearly anything.

Another thing is multiclass synergies and how they might apply. This is really something I figured very recently, but that serves as an expansion to what I placed on the Paladin. As well, the paladin's and the blackguard's spell lists have been revised, adding a plethora of new spells from the Bard and arcane spell lists. Of course, all are PHB material, so no SpC as of late; if you want that, you'll need to ask for it real hard.

After a while, I'll do that "treatise" on homebrewing, or at least how I work with it. Then, I'll dump a lot of prestige classes I've worked with related to Paladins and similar, including Pious Templar, Hospitaller and even Gray Guard.

[Cieyrin]

The revisions are certainly neat, though I feel a bit off about the Blackguard's nuke at 19th. On the one hand, it just screams, "I'll take you to Hell with me!" which is neat in and of itself. On the other hand, I've never personally been a fan of abilities that only kick in after you're out of the fight, though you're admittedly not spending feats on it, so not as bad as it could be, I suppose. Plus, I can ACF out of it for something I do want.

Speaking of ACFs, they are damn neat! There are a couple of faux pas, like with locking Charging Smite to affecting evil as opposed to your holy warrior's opposite alignment in the 15th level ability about adding smite damage to your pounce. Another, going back to the Paladin redux, is the confusing language of the new Lay on Hands, as it says it's a once per encounter ability then goes into talking about how you don't have to use all your healing in one shot and can split it up. I assume you meant for there to be a per-encounter pool you can draw from but clarification would be nice. Spirit of Resilience's Stone Skin-like effect is also confusing, as it both says that it has no limits on the damage it can absorb then goes into describing how much it can absorb. :smallconfused: Also, the example total should have a limit of 260 HP, not 250 (19 (level) + 7 (Cha bonus at 24) = 26 x 10 = 260).

On multiclassing, the original Paladin section on it still has the -5 bit for being treated as Fighter levels. The Initiator level 'bonus' doesn't really work that well, as when it kicks in, your IL drops so that you'd prefer to take 1/2 class level as opposed to class level -4; i.e. Paladin 6/Crusader 1 in your system has an IL of 3 (2 (Paladin level -4= 6-4=2) +1 (Crusader level)), where the basic system has an IL of 4 (3(Paladin level/2=6/2=3) + 1 (Crusader level)). It may be sparkly later on but I don't want it at 6th as currently written. I'd take a page from the Warblade and go for Paladin level-2, so we see an immediate advantage of having them levels (IL 4 in your system, 3 previously), instead of waiting for Holy Warrior 9 for the benefit to finally kick in. Finally, I think the Justiciar should have synergy with Knight, like boosting your Challenge abilities' DCs and effective level for when you get new ones. They may end up looking very similar between the two but they mesh fairly well, I think.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

[Witty Username]

For valiant steed and blade spirit what feature would they replace for the justiciar and anarch?

[T.G. Oskar]

The revisions are certainly neat, though I feel a bit off about the Blackguard's nuke at 19th. On the one hand, it just screams, "I'll take you to Hell with me!" which is neat in and of itself. On the other hand, I've never personally been a fan of abilities that only kick in after you're out of the fight, though you're admittedly not spending feats on it, so not as bad as it could be, I suppose. Plus, I can ACF out of it for something I do want.

That, and pulling off the Balor's death throes, were exactly what I had in mind. I'd need to work something out, but the Blackguard is geared towards being used as an enemy NPC, so this ability would be much like poison or disease; terrible when a PC uses it, devastating when an NPC uses it. Yet, I'd need to see how to work a thematically similar ability, so as to make the Death Throes replace only the ability of that level. Or make it something like Righteous Aura (the Paladin spell); after all, Righteous Aura is the higher-level version of this ability.


Speaking of ACFs, they are damn neat! There are a couple of faux pas, like with locking Charging Smite to affecting evil as opposed to your holy warrior's opposite alignment in the 15th level ability about adding smite damage to your pounce.

Yeah, must be because I had the PHB II open in the Charging Smite page when writing it, considering I was careful about the other abilities.


Another, going back to the Paladin redux, is the confusing language of the new Lay on Hands, as it says it's a once per encounter ability then goes into talking about how you don't have to use all your healing in one shot and can split it up. I assume you meant for there to be a per-encounter pool you can draw from but clarification would be nice.

It's basically that: a per-encounter pool that you can draw from. It's best understood if you read Seerow's idea and how I adapted it: that way, Lay on Hands works as a burst-heal ability but allows you to spread it through multiple uses, until it recharges. I thought I had it pretty clear, but it seems to be a bit confusing. I might need to see how to clear up the language behind it, considering I tried to be pretty concise.


Spirit of Resilience's Stone Skin-like effect is also confusing, as it both says that it has no limits on the damage it can absorb then goes into describing how much it can absorb. :smallconfused: Also, the example total should have a limit of 260 HP, not 250 (19 (level) + 7 (Cha bonus at 24) = 26 x 10 = 260).

Urgh! That's what I get for doing mental calculations.

Still, the idea is that there's no cap, not that there's no limit. I think I wrote it up that way: having no cap but specifying a limitation means it still has a limitation, but that it has no cap in that limitation. Otherwise, it'd be much like the actual Stoneskin, which has a cap effect, and the idea is that aside from the weapons that bypass the DR (namely, an evil-aligned magic weapon) and the total HP it can bypass, it's exactly as Stoneskin (so you get DR 10, but only to a specific number of uses).


On multiclassing, the original Paladin section on it still has the -5 bit for being treated as Fighter levels. The Initiator level 'bonus' doesn't really work that well, as when it kicks in, your IL drops so that you'd prefer to take 1/2 class level as opposed to class level -4; i.e. Paladin 6/Crusader 1 in your system has an IL of 3 (2 (Paladin level -4= 6-4=2) +1 (Crusader level)), where the basic system has an IL of 4 (3(Paladin level/2=6/2=3) + 1 (Crusader level)). It may be sparkly later on but I don't want it at 6th as currently written. I'd take a page from the Warblade and go for Paladin level-2, so we see an immediate advantage of having them levels (IL 4 in your system, 3 previously), instead of waiting for Holy Warrior 9 for the benefit to finally kick in.

Might be capable of changing it now.

Thing is, the thing with Fighter levels is based on a revision I'm doing to pretty much all feats, of which Fighter levels play a really important part. Originally, that part I won't really mention now was based off an odd method of BAB and afterwards from Initiator Level before eventually becoming "effective Fighter levels", so I needed to make those equal. Then, after some workout, the effective Fighter levels the Paladin offered were equal to the class level of the Paladin -4; thus, the increase in Initiator levels had to be similar.

Now, as for the odd scaling of levels, I might just have to revise the language to make it like this: between Paladin 1 to Paladin 4, you progress as usual; from Paladin 5 onwards, you progress your Initiator Level at a 1:1 ratio. Thus, the Paladin 6/Crusader 1 would have an IL of 5th (Paladin 4 = IL 2nd, Paladin 5 & 6 = +1 IL, Crusader 1 = +1 Crusader IL), making it better than normal and getting it closer to the original, losing at most 2 Initiator Levels, not to mention being pretty close to the Warblade idea.


Finally, I think the Justiciar should have synergy with Knight, like boosting your Challenge abilities' DCs and effective level for when you get new ones. They may end up looking very similar between the two but they mesh fairly well, I think.

I might, but the Justiciar and the Knight have an odd thematic feel, and I'd have to provide the same bonus to the Paladin (since the Paladin as-is has a mild Lawful inclination). The Knight and the Justiciar are both lawful, but while the Knight is a chivalrous character (much like the Paladin), the Justiciar is a law-enforcement officer (which the Knight sparingly is). I might do it just because of the Lawful alignment requirement, but I need to consider that Knight and Paladin make a much closer thematic fit.


For valiant steed and blade spirit what feature would they replace for the justiciar and anarch?

Currently, that'd be Persecution and Random Leap. Thing is, when I made the change from Hero's/Fiendish Wings to Stand upon Adversity/Thrive upon Pain, I did because some people thought the wings were off to characters which represented endurance. While Random Leap is just as odd (if not more powerful) for the Anarch, Persecution is excellent for the Justiciar as it allows catching up to the generally swift criminals. I still haven't decided if I should make the changes to said abilities as I did for Paladin and Blackguard (aka, if the change has to be at the level of the class chassis or at the level of the class as an individual vehicle), so I kept those levels "empty" for the moment. If I do decide to change them I'll do the necessary alterations, but for the moment Justiciars exchange their Persecution ability and Anarchs replace their Random Leap ability.

[T.G. Oskar]

Hmm...I was expecting at least one more post before going with it, but I guess I should go to the meat of the discussion; the very core of Project Heretica, and I'd dare say, all of my class rewrites.

The Chassis

I know I've seen the name used before, but I've generally embraced the idea of working with a class "chassis". One of the things that D&D 3.x has (both the 3rd Edition proper and the 3.5 revision) is the very strict class progression, and how neatly organized it is, but one thing strikes as pretty peculiar: how modular it is.

To explain a bit further, I'll just put the table often used by 3.x homebrewers and that reflects the tables in most of the 3.x books:


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Spells/powers/invocations/mysteries/maneuvers/etc.


1st
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class abilities
X


2nd
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class abilities
X


3rd
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class abilities
X



[...]


20th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class abilities
X



While the format is mostly a formality, observing the table itself shows a peculiarity upon the D&D class system: constrained in 20 levels there is a very rigid progression of abilities.

Looking a bit deeper, you can notice a specific trait within certain specific classes. For example; have you seen full spellcasters? Prepared spellcasters usually have a set of spells per day that looks somewhat like this:



Level
0
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
4
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
4
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-


8th
4
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-



[...]


19th
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
3
3


20th
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4



From there, you can notice a few things:

1) Prepared spellcasters get no more than 6 spells
2) Prepared spellcasters get spells at even levels
3) Prepared spellcasters get 1 spell at first, then another spell at the next level, then a third spell at the next two levels, and then 4 spells at the next 3 levels. There's a chance that they get a fifth spell, which follows a similar progression
4) Between levels 5th to 18th, the number of spells per day within the four highest spell levels alternate between 4/3/2/1 and 4/3/3/2


There are a few differences (Druid gets 5 spells within the first few levels, four levels after they get one extra spell per day of that level), but for the most part it behaves in exactly the same way. When making a prepared full spellcaster, you're expected to follow this precise pattern. There's a difference between prepared spellcasters and spontaneous spellcasters (two: namely, that spontaneous spellcasters get more spells per day to cast and they learn spells at odd levels), of course, but you're usually expected to work within the same guidelines.

Now, remember the first table? Replace the last column with the second table, and you get something like this:


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
0
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class abilities
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class abilities
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class abilities
4
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



[...]


20th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class abilities
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4
4



Without giving you any other description than the list of spells, you'll easily recognize this is meant to be a spellcaster class, that it's most likely a prepared spellcaster, and you'll probably expect one or two of the following things:


1) Poor or Medium BAB
2) A hit dice no larger than a d6, though it may reach a d8
3) At least one good save, possibly Will
4) Few class abilities


Of course, there are exceptions (even if they're meant to be parodies like the Lightning Warrior), but for the most part just adding table A to table B creates a very familiar kind of class. While fluff-wise it isn't a class yet (you do need to fill it up with awesome fluff and defined abilities), you have a very strong mechanical set up for a prepared spellcaster. With that, and with the organization of BAB, saves and class abilities, you have a "skeleton" of a class: this, of course, would be the "chassis". To be precise, what you have above is a "chassis" for a "prepared full spellcaster".

Going strictly from tradition, and deep into the core of D&D's class system, you have three base "chassis" to work with:
1) The Warrior chassis
Shown in all its glory in Unearthed Arcana, the Warrior chassis usually behaves the following way:

Skill points at first level: [(2~4) + Int modifier] x4
Skill points at each additional level: (2~4) + Int modifier

Hit Die: d8 ~ d12


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st
+1

+2

+x

+0
Class abilities, bonus feat


2nd
+2

+3

+x

+0
Class abilities, bonus feat


3rd
+3

+3

+x

+1
Class abilities, bonus feat



[...]


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5

+12

+x

+6
Class abilities, bonus feat



...and the following traits:

1) Hit dice between a d8 to a d12
2) 2 or 4 skill points per level (plus Intelligence modifier)
3) Good BAB
4) Good Fortitude, usually poor Will, usually poor Reflexes
5) Usually has bonus feats geared towards combat
6) Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, no less than medium armor unless it's a "light-armored warrior" archetype, almost always proficient with shields


There are several differences, but you can figure the Barbarian, the Fighter, the Samurai and the Swashbuckler usually work this way. If you're gonna create a class that represents a specific warrior archetype, whether it's a revision to an existing class or a brand new one, the idea is to work with the above-mentioned chassis while exchanging one suit of things for another.

Subtypes within this chassis involve "Half-Spellcaster Martial", "Martial Adept".

2) The Expert/Skillmonkey chassis

Also shown in all its glory in Unearthed Arcana, the Expert chassis (or as we call them, "skill monkeys") usually behaves the following way:

Skill points at first level: [(6~8) + Int modifier] x4
Skill points at each additional level: (6~8) + Int modifier

Hit Die: d6 or d8


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special[/b]


1st
+0

+0

+2

+0
Class abilities


2nd
+1

+0

+3

+0
Class abilities


3rd
+2

+1

+3

+1
Class abilities



[...]


20th
+15/+10/+5

+6

+12

+6
Class abilities



...and the following traits:

1) Hit dice either d6 or d8
2) 6 or 8 skill points per level (plus Intelligence modifier)
3) Medium BAB
4) Good Reflexes, usually poor Fortitude or Will
5) Usually has a form of precision damage (sneak attack, skirmish, sudden strike)
6) Proficiency with all simple weapons, light armor, may have proficiency with shields


Variants are rare, but may include the "Half-Spellcaster Expert", the "Martial-Inclined Expert" or the "Jack of All Trades, Master of a very Few".

3) Spellcaster class
See the first example above for "Prepared Spellcaster".

Variants include "Spontaneous Full Spellcaster", "Spontaneous Specialist", "Invoker"

--

With the introduction of Expanded Psionics Handbook, new chassis began to exist. Those include the "Psionic" chassis, the "Soulbinder" chassis and the "Meldshaper" chassis. As well, there are a few chassis that involve mixtures of two different types of chassis; thus, you may mix "Spellcaster" with "Warrior" (giving the "Half-Spellcaster Warrior" chassis), "Psionic" and "Warrior" (giving "Psychic Warrior" for its most famous representative), and so forth. There are even combinations between a main chassis and a sub-chassis (such as the Swordsage, which combines traits of "Expert" and "Martial Adept").

Thus, I introduce the second aspect of the chassis: its modularity. When I refer to "modularity", I refer to how you can exchange certain things from one chassis or introduce key aspects of another chassis to represent a different archetype. This is crucial, because most, if not all, of the classes in D&D are basically combinations of chassis, with their class abilities providing the key differences. That's why it's not very difficult to imagine, if you strip all classes of their class abilities and provide them as, for example, bonus feats, you can work with "generic" classes. Exactly how well you can pull off the introduction of one key trait of a chassis into another depends on your skill as a homebrewer, but usually alterations within a specific chassis can provide for a very interesting take of, or even a much needed mechanical upgrade to, a certain archetype you can represent via fluff.

Oddly enough, this is exactly what the developers of D&D 3.x (in other words. Mr. Cook, Mr. Williams and Mr. Tweet) intended. I'll quote a specific point from the Dungeon Master's Guide to illustrate that point:


It's possible to create entirely new classes ,or rather, to alter existing classes so dramatically that they're no longer recognizable.

Applied to a chassis-based vision of class homebrewing, the idea is that you can take things from one chassis and apply it to another, to the point that you're not creating an alteration to an existing class (the realm of Alternate Class Features, an expansion to the modularity of D&D's class system), but create a whole new class that represents a different archetype altogether.

The main problem behind this is that the developers had a different idea behind it: new classes had to be pretty specific, to the point that a new class should be tailor-made for a campaign and not meant for publishing. This vision effectively precluded the very intention of what a prestige class does; provide a mechanism for a character to specialize within a specific trait, providing mechanics that would be far too specific for one class. Classes, by definition, should be like proposals for an essay: neither too broad to attempt to encompass all archetypes, nor too specific to provide the application of different archetypes. An example of the first situation (too broad) is the Fighter, which by definition is meant to reflect all kinds of fighting men (swashbucklers, guards, weaponsmasters, lancers, expert archers, two-weapon masters, brawlers, etc.) but failed on providing class abilities that could create a difference. A very close example is the Ranger, which provides for two very different types of characters (an expert archer and an expert two-weapon warrior) but provides no more options to play with. On the other hand, examples of the second situation (too specific) exist within the Monk and the Soulknife: classes whose main schtick can be replaced with feats or magic items (Monk's Belt for the first, an actual weapon for the second). There are variations within the rule: classes which are far too broad but not intended to be so (the Cleric, which is meant to be a divine full prepared spellcaster but may end up fighting better than the Fighter and pretty much eclipses the Paladin in its own turf) or classes that are too specific but not intended to be so (the Barbarian, whom is universally played as a two-handed weapon master, or the Paladin whom is universally played as cavalry despite their spell list, or perhaps because of it). To specify: a good class shouldn't be too broad to attempt to encompass all archetypes (because the very notion of a class system thrives on specialization) but not too specific to limit you to one archetype only (such as hammering you into a specific kind of weapon and a specific method of combat). While not visible at first within the classes of Project Heretica (at a first glance, the "Divine Warrior" chassis seems a bit too specific for anyone's tastes), there's a specific reason why the classes are neither too broad nor too specific (although they lean upon the line of specific).

The concept of Chassis within Project Heretica:
Now, with a small introduction to what I mean with "chassis" and how it works, let's see how all of that applies to the above-mentioned traits of how should a class be (at least, IMO; other people have their ideas on what a class should be) and how it fits that description.

As you may notice, the Paladin, the Blackguard, the Anarch and the Justiciar (henceforth as the PBAJ, or the "Peanut Butter And Jelly" :P) work within the same chassis. I'll refer to it as the "Divine Warrior" chassis.

So, what consists the "Divine Warrior" chassis? Let me show you how:
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int mod.) x4
Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + Int mod.

Hit Die: d12

THE DIVINE WARRIOR CHASSIS


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
0
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
+1

+2

0

+2
Alignment aura, smite 1/encounter
2
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2

+3

0

+3
Diehard
2
-
-
-
-


3rd
+3

+3

+1

+3
Aura
3
-
-
-
-


4th
+4

+4

+1

+4
[Bloodied effect], [Turning ability]
3
0
-
-
-


5th
+5

+4

+1

+4
Smite 2/encounter, improved smite
3
1
-
-
-


6th
+6/+1

+5

+2

+5
Bonus Feat, [anti-melee deterrent]
3
1
-
-
-


7th
+7/+2

+5

+2

+5
[Healing/hurting pool]
4
1
-
-
-


8th
+8/+3

+6

+2

+6
Mettle
4
2
0
-
-


9th
+9/+4

+6

+3

+6
Aura, [Bloodied effect
4
2
1
-
-


10th
+10/+5

+7

+3

+7
Bonus Feat, smite 3/encounter
4
2
1
-
-


11th
+11/+6/+1

+7

+3

+7
[Apply Charisma to X trait]
5
2
1
0
-


12th
+12/+7/+2

+8

+4

+8
[Anti-spellcaster deterrent]
5
3
2
1
-


13th
+13/+8/+3

+8

+4

+8
Improved mettle
5
3
2
1
-


14th
+14/+9/+4

+9

+4

+9
Bonus feat, [Bloodied effect]
5
3
2
2
0


15th
+15/+10/+5

+9

+5

+9
Aura, smite 4/encounter, greater smite
5
3
3
2
1


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1

+10

+5

+10
Alignment specific spell resistance
5
4
3
2
1


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2

+10

+5

+10
[Negative HP extender]
5
4
3
3
2


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3

+11

+6

+11
Bonus Feat
5
4
4
3
2


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4

+11

+6

+11
[Bloodied effect]
5
4
4
3
3


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5

+12

+6

+12
[Divine warrior] of legend, smite 5/encounter
5
4
4
3
3



...Pretty specific, no? There are a few traits that you can extrapolate from the "Divine Warrior" chassis:

1) It's meant to be a "tank"; a character that withstands a great deal of punishment and lures damage to himself/herself.
2) The "Divine Warrior" is alignment-specific, so it has loads of alignment-specific abilities
3) Limited, yet substantial, amount of spellcasting. Their spellcasting ability is spontaneous and increased from the original Paladin.
4) Smite as their main method of dealing damage, usually consisting of improved hit rate, increased damage and a status effect as a "rider" effect, or an effect that activates upon the success of the ability itself.
5) Auras, which provide a consistent buff to the Divine Warrior's allies so as long as they stand within range of him (or her). The Auras may also affect enemies, usually debuffing them or causing damage.
6) Good BAB and good Fortitude saves, alongside bonus feats, represent the hallmark of the Warrior chassis.
7) Spellcasting, good Will saves, full caster level and Turn Undead (or reasonable facsimile) as hallmarks of spellcasters, drawing very specifically from the Cleric. It also allows the Divine Warrior to gain access to Divine feats, which increase their potential and distance them from typical Warriors and boost them as much as Clerics.
8) Several resistance-related abilities, plus a "bloodied" effect which activates when the Divine Warrior has less than 50% of its maximum HP, indicate the Divine Warrior mechanically has substantial staying power on its own, which can be further incremented through magical items or spellcasting.


Through observation of the traits, the class seems to be too awfully specific, geared towards "survival"-related tanking. However, a Paladin (as the primary example) could apply several mechanical and fluff-related archetypes with a variety of choices. For example:

--Consider a character whom takes the Blinding Smite Evil ability, ways to improve Turn Undead (such as the Seek Eternal Rest spell and the Aura of Consecration), and gears its spellcasting towards defeating undead. This allows the Paladin to work as a very effective undead hunter, threatening anything from a lowly skeleton to a powerful lich.
--Similarly, using the Stunning Smite, spells such as Holy Smite which work against Evil Outsiders, the Aura of Consecration which also works against Evil Outsiders, and replacing their ability Stand upon Adversity for the Blade Spirit Alternate Class feature could also work well as a hunter of evil outsiders.
--A Paladin with the Stunning (or Resounding) Smite ability, coupled with the feat Strength of Conviction from Exemplars of Evil, good Dexterity, Combat Reflexes, either Robilar's Gambit or Karmic Strike, Stand Still, a reach weapon, Aura of Devotion, Combat Expertise and Improved Trip (and believe me, it has enough feats to pull off all of this) can work as an effective lockdown/control build with added protection towards the attacks of enemies against allies. Replacing Aura of Devotion for Divine Deterrence provides further lockdown against spellcasters.
--A Paladin that chooses the Special Mount Alternate Class Feature, spells to reinforce the mount, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, probably add the Charging Smite ACF and a good lance can work the classic "Ubercharger" build that's usually best done with a Paladin.
--A Paladin with Aura of Vigor, loads of Charisma, Hands of a Healer (from Book of Exalted Deeds), healing spells and spells that enhance Lay on Hands, the Caduceus Bracers, and Battle Blessing makes for a phenomenal combat healer (probably better than a Cleric, actually) and still allows for actions during combat.
--A Paladin with Aura of Devotion and Shield Other (or if you have BoED, Glory of the Martyr) may draw lots of hit point damage to himself or herself, which works just as fine with the above ability to become a self-healer that soaks the damage enemies deal to allies.

...and so forth. To one extent or another, the Paladin class provides about 6 options, and is flexible enough to allow you to deal two or three things well.

Now, observe the Bez-Kismet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153696), the retooling of the Hexblade. The Bez-Kismet, believe it or not, uses the Divine Warrior chassis. How?

1) A Bez-Kismet doesn't have a proper Smite ability, but that is replaced with Curse of the Fateless, the upgrade to the Hexblade's Curse
2) It has a series of auras much like the Divine Warrior
3) It has deterrent auras against melee creatures and spellcasters
4) It has a similar spellcasting progression, except Bez-Kismet uses arcane spells from a limited set of schools.
5) The Bez-Kismet has bonus feats much like the Divine Warrior does, at the exact same levels
6) The Bez-Kismet has Mettle and Improved Mettle
7) The Bez-Kismet eventually becomes harder to kill, and if killed, usually makes the killer regret it (Destiny Bond)


These, amongst others, indicate that the Bez-Kismet and the PBAJ use the same chassis, but with enough changes to be a different class altogether. In fact, the idea that the Bez-Kismet usually follows no deity and casts arcane spells shouldn't make it a Divine Warrior, but the similarities are just TOO much. There's another class that works in a similar way, which hasn't been posted to this date (if I do post it, it's the Zealot), but instead of divine spellcasting it uses Incarnum; otherwise, it's the exact same chassis. This is an example of how to build a class while using a specific chassis, providing enough differences to create an entirely different class.

The inverse (applying traits of the Divine Warrior to another chassis) is also true. To place it as an example, observe the Retooled Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165522). At a glance, it may seem difficult to observe the traits of the Divine Warrior chassis; and of course, that's intentional. However, observe the spellcasting the Retooled Ranger has. As you can see, it's my own brand of half-spellcasting, and it's very similar to that of the PBAJ: based off the Druid spell list minus a few spells, with the Ranger-exclusive and reduced-level-on-Ranger-spell-list spells on top of that. The main difference is that Rangers prepare their spells, while the PBAJ/Divine Warrior cast spells spontaneously. Also, notice where the Retooled Ranger has Evasion, and where it has Improved Evasion; pretty close to where the PBAJ/Divine Warrior has Mettle and Improved Mettle. That's another influence of the Divine Warrior chassis.

An example of a chassis which has quite distant applications is the "Ki" chassis:


Level
BAB
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability, ki power


2nd
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


3rd
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


4th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability, ki strike (first tier, magic)


5th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


6th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


7th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


8th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability, ki strike (second tier)


9th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


10th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


11th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


12th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability, ki strike (third tier)


13th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


14th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


15th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


16th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


17th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


18th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


19th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Class ability


20th
+x

+x

+x

+x
Mastery of ki



The traits of this chassis go as follows:

1) Ki pool equal to 1/2 class level + Wis modifier
2) Several abilities tied to the ki pool
3) Ki-based abilities usually last for rounds equal to class level, or have a caster level equal to 1/2 class level
4) Ki strike appears in one way or another


Now, to show just how different they are, consider the three classes so far that use the Ki chassis: the Retooled Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126346), the Retooled Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127673), and the Retooled Samurai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143018); the first is a warrior with traits of scout (but no skirmisher; rather it's a highly resistant frontal warrior), the second is a skillmonkey with specialties in disguise, jump, escape and explosives, and the third is a warrior class first and foremost, with combat styles representing the usual suspects (two-weapon combat, two-handed or S&B combat, archery, unarmed combat, defensive combat) eventually improved via ki. All three use the same core chassis, but the end result is very, very different from the norm. You may think all three are very different, but in the end they are pretty similar because all three use the Ki chassis.

To further things, the Retooled Warmage and the Retooled Healer use the "Spontaneous Spellcaster" chassis but slightly...erm, retooled to make them more effective. As you can see, in my particular case all classes usually work within an easy to define chassis; perhaps the two greatest examples of anomalous data would be the Blademaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120539) (my only unique class, so to speak) and my earlier work (http://www.rpgamer.com/savingthrow/material/dnd-35e/archive.html) (both base classes under the name of "Nostrum"), and even then you can justify the influence of the Chassis in my homebrewing.

Chassis and YOU (yes, you, for which I mean "you whom are reading this")!

So, with all this monologue about how the concept of a "chassis" is meant to work, how YOU, reader, can apply this?

If anything, consider the notion of a chassis for two things: simplicity, and elegance. Both are great for novice homebrewers, and even for experienced ones, whether you intend to homebrew a fix for your favorite class or a brand-new class that spearheads your brand-new system for the 3.5 system. Note; this only applies to D&D in the 3.x incarnation, which may translate almost fully into Pathfinder, and only moderately into d20 Modern and SWd20/SW Saga (which have their own concepts about chassis).

The first is simplicity. If you know something works, then use it. Many easy fixes include taking a thing from one chassis and applying it to another; however, exactly how that works is a different matter. Simplicity, you see, isn't exactly as simple as it seems. Yes, it's an oxymoron, but bear me when I say it's meant to be simple. Basically, what you want is a simple and clean translation from one chassis to the other, so that it doesn't seem out of place. The cleanliness will be dealt with Elegance; this is Simplicity, mind you. Now, copying and pasting isn't exactly an example of simplicity; you need to figure how to alter that introduced ability into existing and invisible dead levels.

So...what do I mean with "dead levels"? Seeking the simplest explanation, a "dead level" is a level within a class where you don't gain anything. For example: core Fighter has several dead levels, basically all odd levels aside from the 1st. As you can see, while it gains BAB and a chance to gain increased saves, you gain no class abilities at all, so your progression isn't entirely notable; BAB-wise, it's the rough equivalent of taking Weapon Focus with all weapons, and nothing else. Wizards have lots of dead levels in this way; however, they don't actually get so many dead levels if you consider they gain a new spell level every even level. That's not just something; it's a humongous something they get.

Now, what's an "invisible" dead level? That implies a level in which what you gain is practically nothing. Consider a core Paladin reaching a level divisible by 5 (level 5, level 10, level 15, level 20). Of all four, only the first isn't really a dead level; while you gain something all four levels (an extra use of your Smite Evil ability), three of the four levels act like if you didn't gain anything (because you only gain an extra use of Smite Evil per day). With Extra Smite (a feat) you gain what you'd have gained those three levels with a very simple expenditure: of course, a feat slot may seem like a lot, but when you consider that you may make a dip in Fighter and gain one net extra feat (you "regain" the feat you'd have otherwise expended on Mounted Combat or Ride-by Attack and gain an extra feat almost instantly) without losing much (except Smite Evil extra damage, which is basically the only thing you lose but then again you may find a way to deal even MORE damage), then you realize you gained nothing at all. Sure, you may gain an extra spell slot, but then again you could expend that level on a class with better spellcasting. And let's not get started on Remove Disease as a weekly feature; that cries in the eyes of...well, not really Gygax and Arneson (may they roll natural 20s on the celestial gaming tables!), since they pretty much promoted that, but considering that the Paladin needs a fix, it cries in the eyes of Cecil and Uther Lightbringer. So, aside from the mount, all levels after 5th are effective dead levels, with 8th, 11th and 14th not so dead because you get a new spell level (and thus, more spells).

When dealing with tweaking a class by making minor alterations to its chassis or scavenging on other chassis to draw useful abilities (such as killing the Scout and scavenge it to boost the Ranger), you should consider that all levels should be interesting enough. Ideally, that means you should never keep dead levels. It may happen if you're not talented enough to gauge a good, stand-alone feature that's fit for the level range (1-5 being low level, 6-10 being mid-level, 11-15 being high level, 16-20 being pre-epic), but try to keep it to one or two dead levels in that way, and make sure to consider what should be good. That's permissible in full spellcasters (they get spells after all), but it's generally BAAAAD on non-spellcasters, because they need something to gain at that level. Thus, you should consider when its the best moment to apply X or Y ability to Z level on W class' chassis. Doesn't sound very simple, right?

Well, it's actually pretty simple. While, at the very end, it's a question of Elegance, experimenting where to add X or Y ability to Z level on W class' chassis consists only on placing such ability in the table and copy-pasta the information. Well, you should consider that not ALL abilities are meant to be copy-pasta'ed, but paraphrasing (another concept of Elegance) is your friend here. If it doesn't work, try again; if it DOES work, don't change it! Now it should sound pretty simple. It's simple once you consider it's really trial and error.

Elegance, on the other hand, consists on how the chassis is organized; how rigid are its mathematical patterns, how alluring and presented the chassis is, and whether all levels have a roughly equal degree of abilities so that you gain something significant each time you gain a level.

To show how this works, notice the core Paladin's Smite Evil ability. While it's not entirely elegant, it does have an elegant organization; it is neatly presented as an ability that progresses as follows: you add [class level] to your damage, and you gain a new use of such ability at a class level that's a multiple of 5. Likewise, the Barbarian's Rage ability has a very neat mathematical progression: 1 extra use per day every 4 class levels. An example of an inelegant progression is a class ability that you gain at 2nd level, then progresses at 6th, 9th, 13th, 15th and 18th level. As you can see, it follows a 4/3/4/2/3 pattern, and while it can easily fill dead levels that way, it doesn't follow a pretty mathematical pattern. Something like 2nd/6th/10th/14th/18th (every 4 levels starting from the 2nd level) or 3rd/6th/9th/12th/15th/18th (every 3 levels starting from the 3rd) is mathematically precise, and hence VERY elegant.

Another concept of elegance is appropriate power class abilities. An example of this is Divine Grace: it's a class ability that adds your Charisma to all saving throws you make. The first 6 levels in the game are meant to be pretty challenging, but not that deadly; the next 5 levels are meant to be slow and safe, the next 5 levels afterwards very deadly, and the last levels before Epic should be pretty lethal. Divine Grace is gained at 2nd level, which implies a very brutal boost at early levels which may or may not balance out at later levels; after all, if you start with a Cha of 16, that's a +3 to all saving throws at 2nd level, which is pretty unfair considering you might already have a very good Fort save which makes failing a great variety of spells pretty doubtful; that immediately takes your saves into "can't touch this" levels. Taken between 6th and 11th implies that you get it at a level range in which things get nasty real quick; by the time you reach level 11, you'll have a powerful protective ability on your character sheet, but you'll still have a reasonable chance to fail a Fort save very early on. That, believe it or not, isn't so bad. In fact, Divine Grace is SO good (I mean, your Cha bonus to all 3 saves on a Charisma wh...I mean, Charisma fanatic!?!?!?!), it can work on the high-level range without problems. Just...don't keep it all the way to pre-epic, where you might have already reached death (or a VERY good Cloak of Resistance, or a way to get Superior Resistance + Conviction).

While this is what makes mixing and matching from one chassis into another less simple than it should seem, it does help on one thing; it makes the class very elegant, and it helps on the concept of "balance". Now, balance on D&D is pretty arbitrary; a balanced class is one that isn't too strong to beat the game on its own (thus, not Tier 1) but not so weak that it gets replaced pretty easily (thus, not Tier 5 or 6). It can do several things well, but it really excels on one particular one (Tier 3). Even then, that's not really "balance"; you can easily take your specialization into ridiculous levels through practical optimization, of course. However, it involves a great degree of care with your 'brew, and it allows others to easily pick the flaws on your creation (more often than not) and what (and how it) can be improved.

When working with a brand-new chassis, consider the following: first, what will be the core of the chassis? If you're introducing a new system, for example, construct your chassis based on the class that best defines it. For example; let's say you're making a new system to introduce superpowers (as those gained from X-Men or the Avengers or the Justice League) into a d20 system. You decide to create four classes to represent four archetypes; the superhero that has superior physical qualities, the superhero with vast intellect, the superhero that controls various forms of energy and works as a "blaster" of sorts, and the superhero whose abilities are subtle and that mostly "boost" talents it already has. All four are different enough archetypes, but they have one common trait; they all use your new system. You already explained how the system works, and you have a very strong grasp on how the system works; the problem is how to make the classes distinctive enough without having one class be a copy of the other (unless that's your intention, of course). The best way would be to create a chassis that applies to all four classes, and then mix & match from other chassis. For example: your superhero with supernatural physique could be a mix between a warrior and a skill-monkey focused on Strength and Dexterity-based skills, while your superhero with subtle powers could very well work as a skillmonkey. Working with that, you could develop classes that have their own distinctive flavor without stepping too far on the toes of the others; while the "Brawler" class would be different from the "Vigilante" class, there could be a point where they overlap, such as that of the dextrous Brawler and the melee-talented Vigilante. Or they could be extremely different, such as the super-strong, super-resilient Brawler and the very subtle, fear-mongering Vigilante. That's where the "not too broad, not too specific" approach works. The rest is just Simplicity (just how simple it is to capture your archetype) and Elegance (how obvious those options are and whether you won't have one level that's much better than the remaining 19).

"But I don't want to use chassis!"

Alright, alright, that happens. This is a pretty long rant, and you may not agree with all I say (and that's fine; I do like the debate now and then). However, there are a few things that, based on my own experiences, I can tell:

For starters, the idea behind Elegance. Sure, being "mathematically precise" on the arrangement of levels may seem a bit misguided, but a very elegant presentation is key to attract people's attention. Anything that seems too overloaded will seem overpowered, but something that's well organized and neat will seem "balanced" enough (of course, whether it's really balanced at a much closer glance depends mostly on how you redact your abilities).

Second, creating an entirely new mechanic is fine, but the beauty of the D&D class system is that, sometimes, just reworking an old ability into something better gives great results. Creating a new mechanic may seem needlessly complex if another class has an ability you can scavenge and apply to your new class' chassis. However, sometimes, and I do mean sometimes, you need to get to the drawing table and forge a new mechanic. Think of it as customizing your car by applying a custom-made piece; in simpler terms, creating a new mechanic should "Pimp your Ride", never make it a gizmo that will eventually be forgotten.

Third, sometimes renaming things works for the better. Perhaps you don't want to call it "chassis"; however, you may agree with the idea of "archetypes". Part of the description works within the idea of "class" and "role"; the class chassis is the mechanical vehicle to represent your "role" within the game. In simpler terms: Miko uses the Paladin and Monk classes, or essentially the "Warrior" and "Ascetic" chassis/mechanical archetypes to represent herself as a "Samurai", which is her role or fluff archetype. Ideally, the chassis should serve as a recollection of archetypes that are not too broad, but not too narrow either. As well, they should ideally be a recollection of mechanical and fluff archetypes.

Finally, if nothing else seems to work, then don't feel pressured. There's a slight chance you might do better with point-based or classless systems. Perhaps your vision of what a class should be differs strikingly from mine. That's fine. I'm not forcing you to adopt the idea of a "chassis", but do consider that it fits pretty well what one can do with homebrewing classes (and why not, Prestige Classes as well!) within the d20 system, particularly D&D 3.x and game systems related to it.

[YouLostMe]

Mind = Blown.

I think I just forgot how to read...

[NineThePuma]

As above.

Really, TG. I think I've got your style pinned down fairly well, then you show me something like this.

I will say that you're probably going to be a huge help to me in my brewing. Thanks.

[Elfstone]

Mind = Blown.

I think I just forgot how to read...
Agreed.

When I decided I have enough inspiration to actually brew, I will be coming right back here to seek advice for the mechanical aspect, thats for sure.

[Popertop]

Holy... well, holy Paladin, that's for sure!


I had heard on the boards that you were good at homebrew, but I didn't think you were that good. And here, you've shown me exactly what I wanted to see.

The paladin is also a favorite class of mine.

You nailed everything. I am very grateful for your persistence to fleshing out the essence of a paladin.

I didn't read through everything, and I only just gave the blackguard a cursory glance.

Everything is thematically fitting.

The choice to have the blackguard's auras function off of Strength while the Paladin's key off Constitution is genius. This is brilliant, just brilliant. I will be replacing the phb paladin with this, in case you are wondering ;)

Your work has brought me great joy. You have won yourself a fan.

P.S. I am also looking over your Monk fix, incidentally my other favorite class. Very well done.

[T.G. Oskar]

I had heard on the boards that you were good at homebrew, but I didn't think you were that good. And here, you've shown me exactly what I wanted to see.

Well...thanks for the compliment, but I don't exactly consider myself one of the best. Probably it's either self-deprecation, actual modesty or a combination of both (I'm inclining towards self-deprecation under the guise of modesty, but YMMV). One big deal of my homebrewing is trying to listen, though, so...mine's not all the goodness.


The choice to have the blackguard's auras function off of Strength while the Paladin's key off Constitution is genius. This is brilliant, just brilliant. I will be replacing the phb paladin with this, in case you are wondering ;)

If you see later in the conversation, you can see that wasn't really my idea. It was a suggestion from Seerow, and I decided to go with it because it made sense (it was originally based on Charisma, which would have been better but it would have done little for the Paladin's Strength or Constitution modifiers which had little use).


P.S. I am also looking over your Monk fix, incidentally my other favorite class. Very well done.

Oddly enough, I'm still a bit unsatisfied. It has had over...I would say seven revisions thus far, if only because I want to keep it without psionics or ToB which are excellent ways to handle the Monk business, and I really wanted to exploit an existing mechanic that's largely forgotten. It's the class that I want most detailed info at, if only because I want to see whether the detailed changes raise the class at least one tier, and if it can increase it to at least Tier 3.

Yet, the rant about the chassis does show why I feel so unsatisfied with the Monk, and that's mostly because it follows a far too specific role. The Retooled Samurai (which is currently being playtested and it does pretty well on low levels) has variety within its options, but the Monk as intended seems very specific. How to work with the Monk to provide variety without going into the usual suspects of "psionics" (which I personally prefer when dealing with Monks on tables that use no homebrew, at least the one time I attempted to play one) or ToB. On the case of ToB, I have the idea that trying to hammer the unarmed Swordsage variant as THE Monk isn't a bad idea, but it downplays the core aspect of the Swordsage (basically, being Li Mu Bai or one of the many main characters of wouxia that aren't already monks, as usual on Jet Li flicks); however, from a design perspective, it does Wuxia, Monk and Ninja very well. I do find the ki mechanic to be very useful (a mechanic in-between extraordinary and supernatural) but haven't had the chance of providing the appropriate options to create a wide variety of Monks if only because the archetype is far too specific.

[THEChanger]

Sir Oskar, this thread is very nice. The Holy Warrior classes are excellent, but I really appreciate the discussion on the Chassis. It's an enlightening idea, and one I will keep in mind if I ever get into homebrewing. Now, I understand that the Chassis primarily works for Base Classes. Do you think a similar idea could work with Prestige Classes? I'm sure there's some Archtypes there that can be used. Theurges come to mind...

[Elfstone]

My comments/replies in bold.

Well...thanks for the compliment, but I don't exactly consider myself one of the best. Probably it's either self-deprecation, actual modesty or a combination of both (I'm inclining towards self-deprecation under the guise of modesty, but YMMV). One big deal of my homebrewing is trying to listen, though, so...mine's not all the goodness.

If I may ask, who do you rate above yourself that is still actively making new brews?


If you see later in the conversation, you can see that wasn't really my idea. It was a suggestion from Seerow, and I decided to go with it because it made sense (it was originally based on Charisma, which would have been better but it would have done little for the Paladin's Strength or Constitution modifiers which had little use).

And he has his glory for his genius!

Oddly enough, I'm still a bit unsatisfied. It has had over...I would say seven revisions thus far, if only because I want to keep it without psionics or ToB which are excellent ways to handle the Monk business, and I really wanted to exploit an existing mechanic that's largely forgotten. It's the class that I want most detailed info at, if only because I want to see whether the detailed changes raise the class at least one tier, and if it can increase it to at least Tier 3.

Its really, really hard to make a monk fix anything higher than tier 4. Simply because of the role of a monk. Which is (in my mind, which is quite possibly completely different than yours) lightly armored, bare fisted, flying kick launching, melee boss. Where do you fit options outside of combat? Perhaps adding something that about scripts/words/text and the use of them. Adding to the keen minded martial artist?

[drakir_nosslin]

Very impressive. Now I want to make a Paladin, for the first time in my life!

Well done! *subscribes*

[T.G. Oskar]

Sir Oskar, this thread is very nice. The Holy Warrior classes are excellent, but I really appreciate the discussion on the Chassis. It's an enlightening idea, and one I will keep in mind if I ever get into homebrewing. Now, I understand that the Chassis primarily works for Base Classes. Do you think a similar idea could work with Prestige Classes? I'm sure there's some Archtypes there that can be used. Theurges come to mind...

I made a slight mention about it, but a discussion about applying a "Chassis" to Prestige Classes easily becomes complicated. This is because of what a Prestige Class is perceived at: in the very beginning of 3.x, PrCs were considered as ways to develop new classes which could emerge out of old ones: thus, you have the Blackguard which would be thematically similar to the Paladin but accessible from other classes (Fighter, namely; Cleric is a secondary way to enter as well) or the Assassin which was meant to be a class of its own but was thematically TOO similar to the Rogue (except for the spellcasting and the Death Attack). The other use was to facilitate multiclass combinations (Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster, Arcane Archer). A third vision of multiclass was notable; that of enhancing existing classes through specialization (Horizon Walker, Thaumaturge, Red Wizard, Archmage and Hierophant come to mind). The least obvious of them all, and the one that eventually won, was the vision that eventually replaced their idea of how to make classes and that appeared in the DMG II: Prestige Classes as a recollection of abilities that represent X organization or that hold a very specific fluff. By the time you reach Complete Scoundrel, you see the last two have much larger relevance than the early two: classes such as Assassin or Blackguard give way to classes such as Zerth Cenobite and Cyran Avenger (classes with a very HUGE fluff behind them), and classes that enhance others stop being generic and become pretty specific; thus, you see Eldritch Knight and Spellsword, which aren't too tied to fluff, give way to Abjurant Champion (a warrior-mage with specialty in Abjuration magic) or Knight Phantom (a mageknight with the ability to conjure its own mount and fight equally well with swordplay, spellslinging and cavalry, and the special unit of the Aundairian cavalry).

The thing with Prestige Classes is that those four visions are what define what a Prestige Class is, and no two people will reach an agreement that can be seen easily through observation. Some will consider the third idea (PrCs as ways to create specialized builds) the predominant one, and you could build a chassis concept behind it; yet, you'll find others that will find a combination of the second and fourth ideas to predominate (multiclass build enablers and classes that represent X organization or Y church or Z guild).

Applying the concept of a Chassis in its mechanical nature to Prestige Classes seems pretty easy, since you can observe similarities between most successful prestige classes: for example, classes that advance spellcasting fail if they don't offer at least a 66% advancement on already acquired spellcasting, and generally favor denying spellcasting advancement either the first level (to discourage dipping) or at levels where the acquired class abilities are significant enough to replace one whole level of spellcasting ability. Classes that offer 10/10 progression are usually seen as very strong; those with 9/10 or 8/10 are seen as worthwhile if the class abilities are good enough, those with 7/10 really have to offer something spectacular (think what Incantatrices offer), and anything below 6/10ths spellcasting isn't worthwhile, no matter how well organized it is.

Now, applying the concept of Chassis as a fluff concept is much, much harder, because you need to define your idea of what IS a Prestige Class. You could define having four cores to a PrC chassis, and then variants of each core explained separately. That would require considerable effort to nail correctly; I expect most people see the idea of a "chassis" behind the design of base classes as a poor observation in game design, but it's easier to work than the very concept of Prestige Classes. Some people consider PrCs much like AD&D kits (IMO Alternate Class Features work under that concept), enabling builds within that class, but the concept of PrCs is just too broad to nail them into a simple explanation. Same with the rest.


If I may ask, who do you rate above yourself that is still actively making new brews?

Exactly whom...well, I don't consider anyone superior or inferior. There are a few that I watch around. Examples are Doc Roc and the Penny Dreadfuls because we've had collaboration in the past (being one of the people hanging in the Test of Spite thread), and they have surprisingly good ideas but they decided to create an entirely new system. That, and their vision of the Paladin hurt me dearly (I simply couldn't understand their idea behind it, no matter how much I saw it), and I found Warmarked and Sage to be easy to understand and play with from an intuition point of view.

Another one that comes to mind because of the most unusual way is jiriku, because I find him as a sort of rival in terms of homebrewing. It's a combination of "great minds think alike" and a competition between 'brews, if only because our design perspective towards fixes overlaps much like a Venn diagram does, if only on the minimal range.

Aside from these people, I don't have favored homebrewers, not even the big names in this forum. It's not because I resent them or anything; they have their ideas and some of them are great, but an idea may be spectacular and still not enough to attract you. Others are concepts that at first won't interest you but later on they'll lure you, slowly (case in point: Incarnum. First I thought "what a stupid idea", but after seeing it in action I consider it a very interesting, unique concept that wasn't truly advanced).


Its really, really hard to make a monk fix anything higher than tier 4. Simply because of the role of a monk. Which is (in my mind, which is quite possibly completely different than yours) lightly armored, bare fisted, flying kick launching, melee boss. Where do you fit options outside of combat? Perhaps adding something that about scripts/words/text and the use of them. Adding to the keen minded martial artist?

Oh, I do agree. I find it right between a melee warrior with high offensive and defensive capabilities and a skirmisher, but inclined closer to the melee and the survival aspect than on the skirmish. That also makes them different, in concept, from a Ninja; while Ninjas work similar to Rogues in that they favor stealth and movement and precision damage, Monks are the calm on the storm of combat; if you get too close, they will take you down, and if you get in their way, they will take you down as well. The best way to deal with a Monk is get out of the way and don't engage them.

In practice, it's really hard to work with that, and develop concepts that build upon a "Monk" chassis, because the archetype is VERY specific. This is mostly the argument used by those who favor the Swordsage as a method to fulfill the Monk archetype; the Swordsage encompasses a wider range of archetypes, all involving martial superiority and supernatural skill. However, that clashes with the idea behind a Psionically-powered Monk, which is just as effective (if not more) because it deals with both the fluff and the crunch (using your mind as an extension of your body, allowing you to bypass mundane obstacles such as armor, height, distance, physical traits such as breathing, etc.)

Even observing the character themes in Player's Handbook II tells you the problem with the Monk. You could try to unify the idea behind the Eastern (Shaolin) monk and the Western (cloistered) monk, but both ideas are extremely distant. You have to choose either one or the other, and since the latter is fulfilled rather well by the Cloistered Cleric, the former is usually the chosen one. Thus, the archetype is far too specific, and it propitiates having the Monk as a too specific combination of abilities which could be done better through different build combinations. And yet, there are several Monk fixes, some including psionics or maneuvers to the mix, and that is because of a variety of factors (including and not limited to have a class that actually has the name of the archetype you want, or because you're attached to the mechanics introduced by the Monk and slightly supported by the devs).

It IS possible to create a Monk that may reach Tier 3 AND actually have a flavor of its own, but reaching that point is difficult. Of all fixes I've seen (including mine!), the best that reaches utility is actually that of an MMO; namely, Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited. Exactly how you can translate backwards their improvements into the tabletop format is a challenge, but the fact they have enchanted handwraps that work exactly as weapons and enchanted outfits that work exactly as armor; their concept of Philosophies and Ways, and how they deal with the Monk as a combination between skirmisher and martial warrior in parallel and not replacing or being subsumed by the Swordsage shows the possibility, if anything. And heck, it even has stances much like those of Swordsages, but much, much better. That's partly the reason why I feel a bit unsatisfied with my retooling of the Monk, because it has several excellent abilities but it still doesn't compare to the Swordsage.

Guess I should start retooling the Monk based on its DDO counterpart, but I'm not sure if Turbine would actually allow me to pull that off...

[drakir_nosslin]

Just a quick question; is the Justiciar supposed to be as based off CON as the paladin, because right now most of its abilities seem tied to CHA, something that the paladin was earlier, if I have understood the thread correctly?

EDIT: Does a Justiciar that uses a shield also gain a bonus on the auras? The wording on Sanction is a bit unclear.

EDIT2: Can a Justiciar, as a paladin, choose a different basic Verdict instead of improved Verdict?

[Elfstone]

Replied again, in bold.


I wouldn't dare say anyone is better or worse than others, just that some of their products I like more than others. In several cases, I like almost all of their products.

Exactly whom...well, I don't consider anyone superior or inferior. There are a few that I watch around. Examples are Doc Roc and the Penny Dreadfuls because we've had collaboration in the past (being one of the people hanging in the Test of Spite thread), and they have surprisingly good ideas but they decided to create an entirely new system. That, and their vision of the Paladin hurt me dearly (I simply couldn't understand their idea behind it, no matter how much I saw it), and I found Warmarked and Sage to be easy to understand and play with from an intuition point of view.

Another one that comes to mind because of the most unusual way is jiriku, because I find him as a sort of rival in terms of homebrewing. It's a combination of "great minds think alike" and a competition between 'brews, if only because our design perspective towards fixes overlaps much like a Venn diagram does, if only on the minimal range.

At first I didn't think very much of him due to his lack of "pretty" formatting (didn't draw my attention, so I moved on) but after being redirected there by others, I have found most all of his works to be very good.

SFL
Oh, I do agree. I find it right between a melee warrior with high offensive and defensive capabilities and a skirmisher, but inclined closer to the melee and the survival aspect than on the skirmish. That also makes them different, in concept, from a Ninja; while Ninjas work similar to Rogues in that they favor stealth and movement and precision damage, Monks are the calm on the storm of combat; if you get too close, they will take you down, and if you get in their way, they will take you down as well. The best way to deal with a Monk is get out of the way and don't engage them.

In practice, it's really hard to work with that, and develop concepts that build upon a "Monk" chassis, because the archetype is VERY specific. This is mostly the argument used by those who favor the Swordsage as a method to fulfill the Monk archetype; the Swordsage encompasses a wider range of archetypes, all involving martial superiority and supernatural skill. However, that clashes with the idea behind a Psionically-powered Monk, which is just as effective (if not more) because it deals with both the fluff and the crunch (using your mind as an extension of your body, allowing you to bypass mundane obstacles such as armor, height, distance, physical traits such as breathing, etc.)

Even observing the character themes in Player's Handbook II tells you the problem with the Monk. You could try to unify the idea behind the Eastern (Shaolin) monk and the Western (cloistered) monk, but both ideas are extremely distant. You have to choose either one or the other, and since the latter is fulfilled rather well by the Cloistered Cleric, the former is usually the chosen one. Thus, the archetype is far too specific, and it propitiates having the Monk as a too specific combination of abilities which could be done better through different build combinations. And yet, there are several Monk fixes, some including psionics or maneuvers to the mix, and that is because of a variety of factors (including and not limited to have a class that actually has the name of the archetype you want, or because you're attached to the mechanics introduced by the Monk and slightly supported by the devs).

It IS possible to create a Monk that may reach Tier 3 AND actually have a flavor of its own, but reaching that point is difficult. Of all fixes I've seen (including mine!), the best that reaches utility is actually that of an MMO; namely, Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited. Exactly how you can translate backwards their improvements into the tabletop format is a challenge, but the fact they have enchanted handwraps that work exactly as weapons and enchanted outfits that work exactly as armor; their concept of Philosophies and Ways, and how they deal with the Monk as a combination between skirmisher and martial warrior in parallel and not replacing or being subsumed by the Swordsage shows the possibility, if anything. And heck, it even has stances much like those of Swordsages, but much, much better. That's partly the reason why I feel a bit unsatisfied with my retooling of the Monk, because it has several excellent abilities but it still doesn't compare to the Swordsage.

Guess I should start retooling the Monk based on its DDO counterpart, but I'm not sure if Turbine would actually allow me to pull that off...
I, sadly, can not play DDO because I use a mac and have not set up bootcamp yet, so I can't say anything intelligent about the system used on it. However it sounds like what you have said, the solved one of the key problems for monks, which is attack options. If it was me, Id just shoot them an email asking about it. Wouldn't hurt. I doubt they would mind, as you aren't making another MMORPG with their system. Im assuming you plan to keep all of your brews free forever.

[Loki_42]

I just want to say that I think you are an amazing 'brewer T.G.! I first found your work with the re-tooled ranger, and I absolutely loved it, especially your reasonings behind the changes. After that, all your other retools I've looked at have been similarly excellent. I had already decided that next campaign, as a change of pace, I would play a Paladin, and then when I found your fix, it had everything I wanted out of the concept. Thanks for being so consistently excellent, and keep up the good work.

[Popertop]

I'm thinking I might like the option of having (ex)Flight on a paladin, as well as more focus on the relationship between him and his sword.

I think that could be an interesting direction for another "Divine Warrior" class

[T.G. Oskar]

Just a quick question; is the Justiciar supposed to be as based off CON as the paladin, because right now most of its abilities seem tied to CHA, something that the paladin was earlier, if I have understood the thread correctly?

Does a Justiciar that uses a shield also gain a bonus on the auras? The wording on Sanction is a bit unclear.

Can a Justiciar, as a paladin, choose a different basic Verdict instead of improved Verdict?

All three have a similar answer: the Justiciar, alongside the Anarch, still haven't been revised to work alongside the lines of the Paladin and the Blackguard. I'll have to see how to draw something unique from them; the Justiciar having a boost to speed seems a decent idea, since it makes them pursuers, but the ability is based on the earlier flight (which is now an ACF), so it may see a change.

As whether the auras work on CON or CHA, I still haven't decided, but they might probably run off Strength. Justiciars seem like pretty physically inclined much like Blackguards do. Still not sure on that.

On the auras, so far Sanction doesn't have an added quirk. Paladins are basically the only ones thus far having a quirk based on the shield; Blackguards don't have such benefit. Justiciars do have the ability to affect people issued a Verdict, so that might work as a quirk.

Finally, yes, you can. I need to update that line, but the idea is that all divine champions can choose from a tier 1 Smite/Verdict/Entropic Strike or a tier 2 of the same ability at 5th level and beyond, and then from any of the three tiers after level 15th. Since I haven't received a proper analysis on both Justiciar and Anarch, I haven't done many changes to them.


I wouldn't dare say anyone is better or worse than others, just that some of their products I like more than others. In several cases, I like almost all of their products.

Same case on most people. There are a few established names, after all, but it's mostly that; established. That establishment can come from very good fixes or extremely unique and flavorful ideas, but every once in a while they might bomb out or do something that most people won't like.


At first I didn't think very much of him due to his lack of "pretty" formatting (didn't draw my attention, so I moved on) but after being redirected there by others, I have found most all of his works to be very good.

Hmm? Odd; his format is similar to mine (the spoilers hiding designer's notes), except he points out it's notes from him (and are quite brief) while mine are mostly commentaries about the matter. There's a difference in style, however, in that while we tackle the problem in a similar way (trying to keep in tone with the original), he goes with established fixes (blending classes that have a similar trait or ACFs that are popular or builds that are popular) while my proposal usually involves modifying the whole concept. That's why his are "remixes" while mine are "retoolings". It's not semantics, after all.


I, sadly, can not play DDO because I use a mac and have not set up bootcamp yet, so I can't say anything intelligent about the system used on it. However it sounds like what you have said, the solved one of the key problems for monks, which is attack options. If it was me, Id just shoot them an email asking about it. Wouldn't hurt. I doubt they would mind, as you aren't making another MMORPG with their system. Im assuming you plan to keep all of your brews free forever.

Thus far, that's the idea. I can't say they'll be free forever (or that they'll remain at the same place all the time), but seeing this more as a hobby than as an actual job (though what consists a job is mutable at this moment) and since most of the classes are modifications to existing abilities, I would threaten lots of cease & desist letters if I were to publish my material. Though, by the time I have the capability of publishing any kind of material, I might deal with a different system than d20 and possibly a new paradigm.

As for the DDO Monk, there's no strict need to play it and see if it works or not. The class schematics (http://ddowiki.com/page/Monk) are easily accessible online in the same format, and all you'd need to figure out is how to translate all of that into a tabletop format. Being a semi-real-action system, there's a few changes in BAB and ranges that make playing Monks even more interesting that if left as-is on tabletop won't fix anything, but others are quite good (the idea behind the elemental stances, ki finishers and whatnot).

[Elfstone]

Hmm? Odd; his format is similar to mine (the spoilers hiding designer's notes), except he points out it's notes from him (and are quite brief) while mine are mostly commentaries about the matter. There's a difference in style, however, in that while we tackle the problem in a similar way (trying to keep in tone with the original), he goes with established fixes (blending classes that have a similar trait or ACFs that are popular or builds that are popular) while my proposal usually involves modifying the whole concept. That's why his are "remixes" while mine are "retoolings". It's not semantics, after all.

I checked his work shortly after I posted that and it wasn't as I remembered. Its much better.

I remembered something similar to


Bullet one
Bullet 2

for each ability and nothing else, including no table. Perhaps it just didn't load right before.. In anycase, I withdraw that comment.

[Gideon Falcon]

Er... I just noticed that the Blackguard's terrifying smite does not list how long the targets become panicked or shaken. You might want to fix that.

[T.G. Oskar]

Er... I just noticed that the Blackguard's terrifying smite does not list how long the targets become panicked or shaken. You might want to fix that.

Duly noted. And fixed.

So, after working with the base classes (and the Divine Champion Chassis), I decided to expand a bit and work with the Prestige Classes that have a strong thematic tie with Paladins. Each retooling is thought with the idea of providing backwards-compatibility with the Core Paladin class (with some fixes already added into the Project Heretica Paladin) and the Divine Champions with enhanced, flavorful choices.

Thus, Prestige Classes such as the Pious Templar, the Gray Guard, the Hospitaler, the Knight of the Chalice and the Hunter of the Dead have been heavily retooled, retaining the original flavor and expanding even further. The first I intend to present, the Pious Templar, had a very odd concept; it was basically providing the traits of the Paladin to other classes, but based on a deity AND slightly more defensive (I mean, it has Mettle of all things!!). This would have done well for the old Paladin (Mettle, DR, bonus feats, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, advancing smite and faster spellcasting), but not for the PH Paladin; aside from being Paladin++, there was no defining motive behind the Pious Templar other than being a "warrior of his/her god". Thus, I decided to rack it up a bit. Hopefully, that rack-up should be more than enough.

Thus, without further ado, I introduce to you the first of a group of Paladin-related Prestige Class retoolings...


THE PIOUS TEMPLAR

http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/luvbrotha/large/24ee1f005c7de067f9da724585d5c42b.jpg?v=154800
Slaybek Sharptooth. Artist unknown. Original at the official Dungeons & Dragons website (http://community.wizards.com/luvbrotha/go/gallery/item/106442468?pref_tab=photos).

"It doesn't matter what you think I am, cur! You are an infidel! A bloat on the gaze of great Maglubiyet! In great Maglubiyet's name, I fool you so that you don't realize I strike from behind!!" - Grosbek the Sly, bugbear pious templar of Maglubiyet, misleading his opponent before smiting from behind.

Requirements
To qualify to become a pious templar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: The character must have the same alignment as its deity
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks
Feats: Weapon Focus (with deity’s favored weapon)
Special: A character must undertake a quest for the deity, or follow a ritual to be inducted into the religion.

The last requirement needs some explanation. Essentially a fluff requirement, there are several ways to handle this requirement, but the idea is that the character becomes a more integral devotee of his or her faith.

The first way is generally handled by making the prospect undergo a quest, using the actual Quest spell. Of course, it shouldn't be impossible, but something relevant to the faith. Something like defending a stronghold by orders of Moradin for 5 days and 5 nights is a good quest, but something like forcing a 5th level character to beat a Wyrm Red Dragon in Bahamut's name is just ridiculous.

The second can be handled by a simple and easy ritual devised by the DM, but it can also be handled using the organization rules from the Player's Handbook II and the churches from the Complete Champion supplement. Allowing access to the class by joining the organization OR reaching a certain advancement title is a good way to tie the requirement to something of benefit. This also ties with the domain options, something which is of great importance to the Prestige Class.

Class Skills
The pious templar’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Hunh? Why so small a skill list?

It's basically the core Paladin's spell list, except for Knowledge (nobility and royalty) which gets shafted, and Intimidate added in. This should be the base skill list, considering that the domains offered later could add extra skills as class skills (Trickery comes to mind).



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save*
Ref Save*
Will Save*
Special
Spells per Day


1st
+0
+0
+0
+0
Domain, saving grace, smite 1/encounter
-


2nd
+1
+0
+0
+0
Deity's gift
+1 of existing spellcasting ability


3rd
+2
+1
+1
+1
Bonus feat, consecrated/hallowed
+1 of existing spellcasting ability


4th
+3
+1
+1
+1
Mettle/evasion
+1 of existing spellcasting ability


5th
+3
+1
+1
+1
Smite 1/encounter, empowered smite
+1 of existing spellcasting ability


6th
+4
+2
+2
+2
Bonus feat, deity's grace
-


7th
+5
+2
+2
+2
Hallowed/unhallowed
+1 of existing spellcasting ability


8th
+6
+2
+2
+2

+1 of existing spellcasting ability


9th
+6
+3
+3
+3
Bonus feat
+1 of existing spellcasting ability


10th
+7
+3
+3
+3
Deity's promise
-



What? Are you friggin' mad? Medium BAB and all poor saves!?

Well...yeah. I mean, gods of war get full BAB, and probably gods of strength and protection, but why would a god of thievery would provide his followers with full BAB?

You'll notice there are asterisks within the save titles. This ties with saving grace, which is meant to customize the save progression of the class based on the choice of domain. As you'll see, domains are a very important part of the class, and in fact, a way to collapse Divine Champion with Pious Templar, since both have a rather similar trend (one is a more Paladin-like PrC, the other focuses mostly on domains but is rather vanilla otherwise). Living with medium BAB can be reasonable, since you could come from a full BAB class and lose no less than 3 points of BAB, just 1 shy off full BAB. And if you choose the right domain, you can choose to use Divine Power in case the loss of BAB frightens you.

Another thing is the 7/10ths spellcasting ability. Anything less than 6/10ths is really a bad idea, but full spellcasting is just too tempting. 8/10ths or 9/10ths is the ideal, but there are three reasons why there should be 7/10ths. One is the access to domains; I usually consider that whenever a class offers a reasonable expansion on the build's spell list (much more at first level), it should nix one level of spellcasting. The second and third are really Deity's Grace and Deity's Promise, which are two very encompassing abilities that provide the build with very strong staying power, depending on the choices. The three cuts are placed on reasonable places (first level, last level and either 5th or 6th level), and staying on the entire class still allows 9th level spellcasting builds so there's no need to hyperventilate or something (though spontaneous spellcasters might not be so lucky).

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the pious templar.
Aura (Ex): A pious templar manifests an aura corresponding the alignment of her deity. The power of this aura is equal to its character level.

Rather straightforward. Much like the Cleric and the PBAJ Divine Champions, the Pious Templar exudes an aura that pings whenever Detect [Alignment] is used. Of course, being based on the alignment of the templar's deity, that means it could be an aura of Lawful Good or merely an aura of Good (if the deity is Neutral Good). Pious Templars of Neutral deities gain no such benefit, of course.

Domain: A pious templar may choose one domain from those offered by her deity. The pious templar gains the domain’s granted power and gains the ability to prepare domain spells as part of her spell list (see below). A pious templar is treated as a cleric of her class level for purposes of domain-granted powers. A pious templar may not replace this domain for a domain feat.

The main reason why you'd go for Divine Champion is pretty much over (well, that and getting 9th level spells on a 10-level PrC, but you can pull that off with Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord, unless you go for...Divine Champion + Rainbow Servant with a very bizarre reading regarding its spell list? (Equally, Divine Champion + Sand Shaper from Sandstorm. Still, this isn't Divine Champion; this is the Pious Templar, so...

As you'll see later on, the choice of a Pious Templar's domain defines much more than the exclusive spells the Pious Templar can cast and which granted power it acquires. Deity's Gift, Deity's Grace and Deity's Promise depend exclusively on the chosen domain, which opens the possibility for a HUGE amount of different Pious Templars.

Oh, and also...since the idea is that the domain is important, you can't replace the domain. So no easy way to get Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion or Trickery Devotion.

Spells per day: At every level except 1st, 6th and 10th the pious templar advances her spellcasting as if she had gained a level in any one spellcasting class she belonged to before gaining levels in this class. However, she does not gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (such as bonus feats, familiar advancement, increased turning ability and so on; an exception is domain-granted powers as mentioned above). If the pious templar had levels in more than one spellcasting class, she must decide to which class she adds her pious templar class level to determine spells per day and spells known.

If the pious templar had no previous spellcasting ability (neither arcane nor divine; this includes invocations and mysteries but not psionic powers), she gains spellcasting ability equal to that of a 5th level paladin (if good) or 1st level blackguard (if evil), except as follows: the caster level for pious templar spells is equal to her class level, she may not cast spells that oppose her alignment, and her spell list is augmented (see below for more details). A pious templar that casts spells as a Paladin or Blackguard advances her spellcasting at every Pious Templar level, including 1st, 6th and 10th.

Well, I guess that last point requires some explanation.

You see, the last paragraph is meant to provide a Fighter or Barbarian or Monk or Rogue that enters the class with a modicum of spellcasting ability. The paragraph is written under the assumption that you're using the core Paladin spell list (the one that has half caster level and a very limited spell list), thus it makes mention only to the Paladin or the Blackguard (and you may also use the spell lists of the four kinds of Paladins from Unearthed Arcana to figure what would be the spellcasting ability of, say, a Lawful Neutral deity. While full spellcasters and even some half-spellcasters (Ranger, Duskblade, Hexblade/Bez-Kismet) will have stunted spellcastins progression, this being a Paladin-related prestige class they get the full benefit. Thus, while for Clerics and Wizards the class only provides a 7/10ths progression with an expanded spell list, Paladins would get full spellcasting and much better CL by entering the class.

But...this is the Project Heretica thread! What's with the Project Heretica Divine Champions?

In case you're using one of the classes from Project Heretica, the idea is that a non-spellcaster would get spellcasting progression related to one of the four types of Divine Warriors: Paladin (any good), Blackguard (any evil), Justiciar (any lawful) and Anarch (any chaotic). Extreme alignments (such as Lawful Good) get access to two spell lists (Paladin and Justiciar), those with only one alignment (Neutral Good, Chaotic Neutral) gain access only to one spell list (in this case, only Paladin or only Anarch), and Neutral Pious Templars gain access to all four (because they have no such qualms on alignment). They likewise get the same kind of progression (10/10 instead of 7/10).

Smite (Su): Once per encounter as part of an attack action, a pious templar may attempt to smite with one normal melee attack. The pious templar adds her Charisma modifier to the attack roll, if successful, the pious templar deals extra damage equal to her pious templar level, plus levels from any class that grant a smite ability. If the pious templar makes a smite as part of a full attack, she may only use it once per round. A pious templar with the Destruction domain instead gains two uses per encounter of the smite ability (this ability replaces the Destruction domain granted power).

At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, the pious templar may smite one additional time per encounter.

Your basic smite ability. So far, it seems pretty straightforward, but don't get fooled; Empowered Smite grants a rider effect based on the domain you chose, so you get some of the Project Heretica flavor even if going without the other classes. Remember, the PrC is meant to be backwards-compatible, but that doesn't mean it has to hold the same mistakes and troubles.

So, what if you ARE using the Project Heretica classes? Levels in Pious Templar stack with levels in the class to determine smite damage, and each time you gain a new smite attempt you also gain the ability to gain a new smite method or advance an existing one (of course, depending on your level). This might limit you from gaining the third tier of your smites, but you get a unique method of smiting alongside it.

The Destruction domain gains a special treat, which is turning the daily smite attempt into an encounter smite attempt. Chosen carefully, a PBAJ Divine Champion could have more smites per encounter than the base classes, but without the awesome third tier benefits.

Saving Grace (Ex): A pious templar saving throw progression depends on her choice of domain. The pious templar gains good saving throw progressions on the following saves, based on her choice of domain:

Air: Reflex
Animal: Fortitude, Reflex
Chaos: Reflex, Will
Death: Fortitude, Will
Destruction: Fortitude
Earth: Fortitude, Will
Evil: Fortitude, Will
Fire: Reflex
Good: Fortitude, Will
Healing: Fortitude, Will
Knowledge: Will
Law: Fortitude, Will
Luck: Reflex, Will
Magic: Will
Plant: Fortitude, Reflex, Will
Protection: Fortitude, Will
Strength: Fortitude
Travel: Reflex
Trickery: Reflex, Will
War: Fortitude, Reflex
Water: Reflex

Remember I mentioned not to worry about the saving throws? Here's the reason.

Basically, there's no reason why the Pious Templars of the gods of trickery should have so awesome Fortitude saving throws without some effort. However, they SHOULD have better Reflex saving throws because of traps and evasive maneuvers, and good Will saves in order to prevent charms and compulsions from affecting them (not to mention Hold Person and Slow). Thus, while they get poor Fortitude saves, they get great Reflex and Will saves. Apply this line of thought to the rest, and you can figure that you get more than one "build" based on your domain choices. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

Deity’s Gift (Ex or Su): At 2nd level, a pious templar is rewarded for her devotion. She gains a special ability based on the domain she has chosen.

Air: The pious templar gains resistance 10 against electricity attacks
Animal: The pious templar gains the wild empathy ability as an extraordinary ability. She is treated as a druid of her class level for purposes of this ability.
Chaos: The pious templar gains the slippery mind class ability.
Death: The pious templar gains the ability to rebuke undead as a cleric of her class level (plus any levels in classes that grant the rebuke undead ability).
Destruction: The pious templar gains the ability to wound others with a touch. Treat this ability as lay on hands, except the maximum damage is equal to her class level times her Charisma modifier.
Earth: The pious templar gains resistance 10 against acid attacks
Evil: The pious templar deals 2 extra points of damage against good creatures.
Fire: The pious templar gains resistance 10 against fire attacks
Good: The pious templar gains +1 AC against the attacks of evil creatures.
Healing: The pious templar gains the ability to heal herself and others with a touch. Treat as the lay on hands ability, except she may only heal an amount equal to her class level times her Charisma modifier.
Knowledge: The pious templar gains the lore ability. She adds her class level, plus levels in any other class that grants similar abilities (such as the bard’s bardic knowledge or the loremaster’s lore) to the roll.
Law: The pious templar gains the still mind class ability.
Luck: The pious templar gains a +2 luck bonus on a single attack roll, saving throw, skill check or ability check. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 plus her Charisma modifier.
Magic: The pious templar treats her class level, plus any levels in any one divine spellcasting class of her choice, as effective wizard levels for purposes of activating wands and scrolls. This ability replaces the Magic domain granted power. Pious Templars that advance arcane spellcasting apply this benefit to divine spells instead. Pious Templars that use invocations or mysteries apply this benefit to arcane spells as usual.
Plant: The pious templar no longer needs to eat or drink, although she may do so if she desires to.
Protection: The pious templar gains a +2 enhancement bonus to natural armor. Unlike other enhancement bonuses, this bonus stacks with other enhancement bonuses to natural armor.
Strength: The pious templar gains a +3 bonus on Strength checks, and a +1 bonus on melee attack and damage rolls.
Sun: The pious templar gains the ability to turn undead as a cleric of her class level (plus any levels in classes that grant the turn undead ability). This allows her to use the Sun domain granted power.
Travel: The pious templar gains a +5 enhancement bonus to all of her movement types.
Trickery: The pious templar gains the ability to make Use Magic Device checks untrained. If she has ranks in this skill, she gains a +2 competence bonus in this skill.
War: The pious templar gains Weapon Specialization in the deity’s favored weapon.
Water: The pious templar gains resistance 10 against cold attacks.

Deity's Gift is meant to be a pretty "minor" benefit, but exactly how "minor" this benefit is really depends on how you use it. Stuff like energy resistance 10 may not be a real benefit, while something like turn OR rebuke undead might mean a LOT, not to mention the Lay on Hands/reversed LoH ability. Compared to that, other abilities really seem minor: Law, for example, which provides still mind; now, consider it provides still mind, and that there's at least one or two classes that depend on it. Trickery is QUITE the boon, since using UMD without a check can be pretty powerful if having the right way to increase that check to ridiculous levels.

So yes, it's rather unequal. Still, they aren't as strong as what Deity's Grace or Deity's Promise offers, or at least that's the intention. If that's not exactly right in any of the domain chains, feel free to indicate. Just...don't try to buff the remaining lower benefits without considering that they should remain in the lower side of utility, not the highest.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, and every three levels after that, a pious templar gains a bonus feat in addition to those she obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. A pious templar must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a pious templar is considered to have a fighter level equal to her class level (-2 if her remaining levels are in the Fighter class).

Get used to this. Bonus feats are the meat of any martial character, and there's little reason why not to provide them to a purely martial-inclined character. Since the pious templar might have some degree of divine capability (such as turn undead), they also gain access to divine feats, and they also gain access to the very useful domain feats.

That last sentence does require some explanation, though. Most of my class retoolings have the notion that they count their class levels as (x-y) Fighter levels for purposes of qualifying for feats, where x is equal to the class levels and y is a number between 1 and 4. Fighters, naturally, get full levels; Warblades gets class levels -2, and PBAJ Divine Champions get class level -4. Stacking another penalty on top of that would be pretty unfair, so the effective Fighter level of the character would be equal to all class levels which grant such benefit, minus the highest amongst the penalties. Thus, a Fighter 2/Warblade x/Paladin 4/Pious Templar 3 would have an effective Fighter level of 5+x, since the highest penalty amongst all would be that of the Paladin. A Fighter 6/Pious Templar 3 would have an effective Fighter level of 7, on the other hand. A Warblade 6/Pious Templar 3 would also have an effective Fighter level of 7, since both penalties are of equal level.

Why I insist so much on effective Fighter levels? It relates to more than just Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, mind you. MUCH more than that.

Consecrated/Desecrated (Su): At 3rd level, a pious templar shows incredible resolve in defending the holy places of the deity she serves. Whenever she is within 60 ft. of an altar or temple devoted to her deity, she gains a +1 sacred (or profane) bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws, as well as an increase on hit points equal to 1 per character level. Unlike other kinds of temporary hit points, these are not lost first, and are treated as if the pious templar had an increase in Constitution. She gains these benefits if she is within the range of a consecrate (if good) or desecrate (if evil) spell, but only if it is cast by a cleric of the same deity as the pious templar. A neutral, lawful neutral or chaotic neutral pious templar gains the benefits regardless of the spell cast, but only if cast by a cleric of the same deity.

However, if she is within 60 ft. of an altar or temple devoted to a deity of an alignment diametrically opposed to the pious templar’s deity, or if the two deities are opposed (regardless of alignment), she gains a -1 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws; these penalties apply if she is within the range of a consecrate or desecrate spell cast by a deity of opposing alignment or a rival of the pious templar’s deity. A neutral, lawful neutral or chaotic neutral pious templar suffers the penalty regardless of the spell cast, but only when cast by a cleric of a diametrically opposed alignment (neutral pious templars treat lawful good, chaotic good, lawful evil and chaotic evil as diametrically opposed alignments; lawful neutral and chaotic neutral pious templars treat the opposite alignment as diametrically opposed) or by a rival of the pious templar’s deity.

This class feature is independent from the domain choice, and really affects the choice of alignment. Basically, you are bathed on the power of your deity, so you're treated as an undead (or a deathless, if good-aligned) when near the source of power of your deity, which behaves mostly like Consecrate or Desecrate. A Pious Templar with the ability to Consecrate (or Desecrate) an area gets a rather decent buff, actually, even if it's a lowly +1.

Of course, this doesn't come without a penalty. Essentially, while you become more powerful while on the presence of your deity, you become weakened if under the presence of a rival deity. Generally, this only applies to diametrically opposed alignments, but the idea is to work with actual rival deities. It is reasonable to believe that a Pious Templar of Corellon might become weakened if under the presence of an altar to Gruumsh, if only because the power of Gruumsh overwhelms the area. This happens even if both aren't really diametrically opposed (Corellon is good, Gruumsh is evil, but both happen to be chaotic). This is mentioned above, but it gives you a good idea on how to deal with relationships between gods. This would be relevant regarding, say, Pelor and Pholtus which are both good, only one step different, but both are rival deities of the sun. Or, of course, the warring brothers Heironeous and Hextor.

Mettle (Ex): Beginning at 4th level, if a pious templar makes a successful Will or Fortitude save that would normally reduce the save’s effect, she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells with a saving throw entry of “partial” or “half” are affected by this ability, and only for purposes of Will and/or Fortitude saves with these descriptors.

Evasion (Ex): A 4th level pious templar that has chosen the Air, Fire, Luck, Travel, Trickery or Water domains gains the evasion ability instead of mettle. If the pious templar had the evasion ability by means of another class, she gains improved evasion instead.

As usual, the presence of Mettle on retoolings is expected, but I wanted to play with the provided benefit. While I could have worked with Mettle of Fortitude, Mettle of Will and Evasion as three separate abilities and applied all separately, I decided to go with simplicity this time, applying Mettle to all by default and replacing Mettle with Evasion on those which are primarily Reflex inclined. Of course, if already having Evasion, the latter gets Improved Evasion pretty much for free.

Empowered Smite (Su): Beginning at 5th level, whenever a pious templar makes a smite attempt, she also applies the following effect. The effect is determined by the choice of domain of the pious templar. Any effect that allows a saving throw has a DC equal to 10 + the pious templar’s class level + the pious templar’s Strength modifier.

Air: The extra damage from the smite attempt is treated as electricity damage. Creatures weak to electricity or creatures with the earth subtype receive twice the extra damage. Creatures with the air or electricity subtype are not affected by this smite.
Animal: Animals, magical beasts and vermin take non-lethal damage from this smite attack. If the smite succeeds, the creature must make a Will saving throw, or stop attacking the pious templar for the remainder of the encounter.
Chaos: Lawful creatures take double the extra damage. Chaotic creatures are not affected by this smite.
Death: All of the damage from the attack is considered negative energy damage. Undead affected by this smite are healed instead of being damage.
Destruction: The extra damage from the smite attempt is doubled against constructs. If the construct reaches 0 hit points because of this ability, the construct is disintegrated. The pious templar may also use the smite attempt as part of a sunder, or when trying to damage an object; the object is treated as a construct for purposes of this ability (if used on walls or similar objects, only a 5 ft. by 5 ft. by 5 ft. cube is disintegrated)
Earth: The extra damage from the smite attempt is treated as acid damage. Creatures weak to acid or creatures with the air or electricity subtype receive twice the extra damage. Creatures with the earth subtype are not affected by this smite.
Evil: Good creatures take double the extra damage. Evil creatures are not affected by this smite.
Fire: The extra damage from the smite attempt is treated as fire damage. Creatures weak to fire or creatures with the cold or water subtype receive twice the extra damage. Creatures with the fire subtype are not affected by this smite.
Good: Evil creatures take double the extra damage. Good creatures are not affected by this smite.
Healing: When making a smite attempt, you heal an amount of damage to yourself equal to the damage dealt to the creature.
Knowledge: The pious templar adds her Intelligence modifier (if any) to the attack and damage rolls. If you have ranks in the appropriate Knowledge skill and identify the creature with a skill check, you deal extra damage equal to half the ranks you have in the Knowledge skill.
Law: Chaotic creatures take double the extra damage. Lawful creatures are not affected by this smite.
Luck: You may make a smite immediately after a miss on the attack roll. The smite attack is done at the same attack bonus as the missed attack; if successful, the smite deals double the extra damage. This effect may be used whenever a pious templar misses on an attack roll, including attacks of opportunity.
Magic: The pious templar may expend a spell slot as part of the smite attempt. The smite gains a bonus on attack rolls equal to the expended spell slot’s level, and deals an extra amount of damage equal to 1d6 per level of the spel slot expended.
Plant: The pious templar may entangle an enemy with her smite attempt. Treat as an entangle spell, but only the target of the smite is affected, and it lasts for a number of rounds equal to the pious templar’s class level.
Protection: A pious templar may expend a smite attempt to grant an ally a deflection bonus to AC equal to her Charisma modifier, as well as temporary hit points equal to twice her class level for a number of rounds equal to half her class level
Strength: The smite attack deals increased damage. The pious templar is treated as if wielding her weapon with two hands for purposes of this attack, and she deals twice the extra damage. If the pious templar is wielding a two handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon with two hands, her Strength bonus to damage and the extra damage from the smite are instead tripled.
Sun: Undead creatures take double the extra damage.
Travel: The victim of the smite attack must succeed on a Will saving throw or be shunted away 5 feet per class level of the pious templar. Alternatively, she may force a creature to succeed on a Will saving throw or be treated as if under a dimensional anchor spell for a number of rounds equal to half her class level.
Trickery: The victim of the smite attack is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, and the attack deals an extra 1d6 points of damage per three class levels. Creatures immune to critical hits or sneak attacks are immune to this effect.
War: The pious templar may expend a smite attempt as a swift action to grant all attacks done for the round a bonus on attack rolls equal to her Charisma modifier, and extra damage equal to her class level. Alternatively, she adds twice her Charisma modifier and deals twice the amount of damage (weapon damage, extra damage from smite, and any magical enhancement to weapons or feat bonuses but not precision damage) with her smite attack.
Water: The extra damage from the smite attempt is treated as cold damage. Creatures weak to cold or creatures with the fire subtype receive twice the extra damage. Creatures with the cold or water subtype are not affected by this smite.

This is what I meant regarding having an improved smite ability. As you can see, each domain has its smite, which varies from elemental damage to doubled damage on certain types of creatures, to effects such as a bonus to AC and temporary hit points. All smite rider effects activate whenever you use the smite, and stack with existing improvements to smite (thus, an empowered smite from a Pious Templar that chose the Good domain would work as smite evil, except it deals double damage to evil creatures; this would stack with smite evil quite clearly; not so similar with a Paladin/Pious Templar that chooses the Law domain, which would have a Smite Chaos and a Smite Chaotic Evil, but not a Smite Lawful Evil). You can decide to make a normal smite, or a non-modified smite if you're interested. In the case of Project Heretica PBAJ Divine Champions, the two rider effects both apply (thus, a Paladin with the Resounding Smite Evil ability that follows Ehlonna and chooses the Plant domain can apply both the Resounding effect and the Plant domain smite effect with the same smite, or only the Resounding Smite).

Protection works very differently from the others, and I wish to explain a bit further. Protection works as follows: instead of making the smite, you expend the smite and provide the benefit to an ally, much as you'd expend a daily use of turn undead to activate a divine feat.

Deity’s Grace (Su): At 6th level, a pious templar is granted the grace of her chosen deity. Her body shows mild changes given this ability. She gains a special ability based on her chosen domain.

Air: The body of the pious templar is surrounded by a soft breeze, with sparks occasionally showing. The pious templar becomes immune to electricity attacks. Any creature that attacks her takes electricity damage equal to half her class level.
Animal: The eyes of the pious templar become like those of an animal, her skin toughens, and her muscles become lithe and graceful. The pious templar gains a natural armor bonus and a bonus to Reflex saves equal to her Charisma modifier. She also gains low-light vision if she does not already has it. Finally, she manifests a natural weapon of her choice, dealing 1d6 points of damage (if a Medium creature); claws, fangs, horns.
Chaos: The pious templar’s hair, if any, shifts as she walks, and her eyes change color as she blinks. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/lawful and cold iron, where X is equal to half her class level. As well, she is under the constant protection of a protection from law spell.
Death: The pious templar becomes gaunt and pale, almost partially mummified. She adds her class level to any saving throw against death effects, ability damage, ability drain, energy drain or negative energy damage. Any creature that attacks her takes negative energy damage equal to half her class level.
Destruction: The pious templar looks fragile and weak, as if any touch would shatter her. She ignores any kind of damage reduction (except epic) and hardness. As well, she gains DR X/-, where X is equal to half her class level.
Earth: The pious templar’s skin becomes darker, and the texture becomes as if soil. The pious templar becomes immune to acid attacks. Any creature that attacks her takes acid damage equal to half her class level.
Evil: The pious templar manifests small horns, her eyes become fiendish and her skin slightly reddens. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/good, where X is equal to half her class level. As well, she is under the constant protection of a protection from good spell.
Fire: The pious templar emanates heat from her body, which is warm yet not harming to the touch; as well, she no longer perspirates. The pious templar gains immunity to fire attacks. Any creature that attacks her takes fire damage equal to half her class level.
Good: The pious templar’s skin gains a slight metallic tone, and she glistens in the presence of light. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/evil, where X is equal to half her class level. As well, she is under the constant protection of a protection from evil spell.
Healing: The pious templar’s skin toughens and closes even with the weakest wound. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/- and fast healing X, where X is equal to half her class level.
Knowledge: The pious templar gains an air of sagacity, intellect and grace. The pious templar’s Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores increase by 2. She also gains a competence bonus on all Knowledge skills equal to half her class level.
Law: The pious templar’s features rearrange, showing less imperfections; scars are gone, her body looks at her prime and she exudes great beauty. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/chaotic and silver, where X is equal to half her class level. As well, she is under the constant protection of a protection from chaos spell.
Luck: The pious templar gains an aura of good fortune. A number of times per day equal to half her class level plus her Charisma modifier, a pious templar may reroll any attack roll, saving throw, skill check or ability check. She gains a luck bonus on the roll equal to half her class level.
Magic: The pious templar ‘s eyes shine with arcane power, and her magical prowess increases. The pious templar may add one sorcerer/wizard spell to her spell list per spell level she has access to and prepare spells as usual. She must choose only one spell of the same level of spell she has access to (thus, a 6th level pious templar may choose one 0-level cantrip, one 1st level spell, one 2nd level spell and one 3rd level spell). As well, she gains an extra spell slot for each spell level she has access to.
Plant: The pious templar’s skin takes a tone of green, and small root-like fibers emerge from her feet. She gains fast healing X so as long as she has contact to the ground, where X is equal to half her class level. As well, she gains a competence bonus on Hide checks equal to her class level when hiding within vegetation.
Protection: The pious templar’s skin and physique toughen, making her resilient to many attacks. She gains a deflection bonus to AC and a bonus to saves equal to her Charisma modifier.
Strength: The pious templar increases her physical prowess. Her Strength and Constitution scores increase by 4.
Sun: The pious templar shines like the sun, even within the darkness. She manifests an aura of light, which manifests as bright light within 30 ft. and dim light for the remaining 60 ft. Undead within the area of bright light take damage equal to the pious templar’s class level per round if they remain within the area of bright light.
Travel: The pious templar gains the ability to move within places that she might not have been capable of moving. She gains a climb speed and a swim speed equal to 5 feet per two class levels, and a flight speed equal to 5 feet per class level with good maneuverability. She may use this speed or her natural movement speed, whichever is more beneficial (creatures with fly speed gain good maneuverability unless they have good or better maneuverability)
Trickery: The pious templar becomes harder to recognize, and difficult to pin down. She gains a competence bonus on Bluff, Disguise and Hide checks equal to her class level, and she gains partial concealment (miss chance 20%)
War: The pious templar becomes stronger, fitter, and poised. Her Strength, Constitution and Charisma scores increase by 2. Allies within 30 feet gain a morale bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls equal to half her class level.
Water: The pious templar’s skin is always moist, and dew manifests on her during dawn. The pious templar gains immunity to cold attacks. Any creature that attacks her takes cold damage equal to half her class level.

As mentioned, compared to what Deity's Grace offers, Deity's Gift is meant to be minor. Deity's Grace is meant to be a direct alteration of the Pious Templar to allow the character to resemble the elected domain. Much like with Deity's Gift, Deity's Grace is somewhat unequal with each domain; some get very good benefits (notice just how awesome the Healing Divine Grace is), some get not so good benefits, but all get very useful benefits. This further expands how a Pious Templar behaves; a Pious Templar that chooses the Water domain is basically an elemental warrior focusing on cold and water, while a Pious Templar that chooses the Trickery domain works best as a spy or very mild skillmonkey, with the spells to boot.

Hallowed/Unhallowed (Su): At 7th level, a pious templar becomes a symbol of the deity’s faith. She is treated as an altar of her faith, manifesting an aura within 20 feet that provides the benefits of a consecrate (if good) or desecrate (if evil) spell. She thus permanently gains a +1 sacred (or profane) bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and permanent Hit Points equal to her character level. If she is within 60 ft. of an altar, or a place dedicated to her deity, the sacred bonuses to attack and defense temporarily double and she gains a temporary increase in hit points equal to her character level.

The natural progression to the Consecrated/Desecrated class feature, Hallowed/Unhallowed basically provides the benefit of the former class feature permanently AND provides an "aura" of consecration or desecration that benefits certain creatures while affecting others. This feature provides the full benefit of a Consecrate or Desecrate spell, in which casting the spell on a place dedicated to the deity doubles the buffs (or doubles the penalties, though in this case only the bonuses apply) received.

So what if a Pious Templar's aura of consecration/desecration crosses a consecrated/desecrated area? Ideally, what this means is that the Pious Templar's aura and the spell effectively cancel each other's benefits for as long as the interaction lasts, so the Pious Templar loses its benefit but cancels the spell's effect. This overcomes the earlier feature's penalties and also denies enemy necromancers a major boon.

Deity’s Promise (Su): At 10th level, a pious templar is transformed by her deity. The transformation provides several benefits.

Air, Earth, Fire or Water: the pious templar is forevermore treated as an elemental, and gains the subtype related to her chosen domain. Unlike other elementals, she may be revived normally. She gains SR 15 + character level against spells with a descriptor opposed to her acquired subtype (air = earth or acid; earth = air or electricity; fire = cold or water; water = fire), or by creatures from the opposing subtype.
Chaos, Evil, Good or Law: the pious templar is forevermore treated as an outsider, and gains both the native subtype and the subtype related to her chosen domain. She gains SR 15 + character level against spells with a descriptor opposed to her alignment subtype, or cast by creatures of the opposing alignment.
Death: the pious templar is treated as if she was an undead for purposes of immunities, but she retains her Constitution score. She gains SR 15 + class level against positive energy spells.
Plant: the creature is treated as if she was a plant creature for purposes of immunities, but she retains her mental scores. Furthermore, her reach is extended by 5 ft.
Protection: the pious templar is forevermore treated as a construct for purposes of immunities, but she retains her Constitution score. However, healing spells cast on her have only half the effect. Furthermore, she gains SR 10 + character level.
Strength: the pious templar is forevermore treated as a giant, and gains the powerful build racial ability if she does not already has it. Her Strength score increases by 2.
Travel: the pious templar is forevermore treated as an outsider with the native subtype. She never gains the extraplanar subtype if she travels to another alignment, and she never suffers the effects of any plane (be it positive or negative).

Alternatively, she gains a benefit based on her chosen domain.
Animal: The pious templar gains a +2 bonus on Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, natural armor bonuses increase by 2, she gains the scent ability (if she didn’t had it already) and all of her natural attacks (except unarmed strikes, unless the character is a monk) are treated as if one size category larger.
Destruction: The pious templar manifests a weakening aura. Any creature within 30 feet of the pious templar gains a -2 penalty on AC and takes damage equal to half her class level.
Healing: The pious templar manifests a healing aura. Allies within 30 feet of the pious templar gain fast healing equal to half her class level.
Knowledge: The pious templar becomes a repository of knowledge. Whenever she uses her lore (or similar) ability, she is treated as if casting legend lore and analyze dweomer if successful for purposes of which information she may draw.
Luck: The pious templar becomes an entity of pure luck. Once per round, she may reroll the result of an attack roll, saving throw, skill check or ability check. Any ability that grants her luck rerolls may be used on behalf of an ally within 30 feet as an immediate action.
Magic: The pious templar empowers her magical abilities. Her caster level with pious templar spells and spells from any arcane class is equal to her character level.
Sun: The pious templar grants her allies the ability to vanquish the undead. Allies within 30 feet of the pious templar deal extra damage against undead equal to her class level.
Trickery: The pious templar is far more difficult to pin down. She gains total concealment (50% miss chance) and all of her attacks ignore the opponent’s Dexterity modifier to AC.
War: The pious templar gains extraordinary battle prowess. Her base attack bonus equals her character level (up to 20 at character level 20th), and any feat that requires the use of a specific weapon but that may apply to other weapons (such as the Weapon Focus or Improved Critical feats) apply to any weapons she is proficient with. This ability is an extraordinary ability.

The capstone basically transforms you into a different creature, with a much wider variety of options than usual (elementals? constructs!? GIANTS!?!?). Deity's Promise resembles quite a lot Perfect Self, but tied to the choice of domain, and it's meant to be slightly more powerful than Deity's Grace. By the time you reach this level, the templar becomes no less and no more than the exemplar of its chosen domain, something that the Divine Champion PrC would only dream of having (even if the spellcasting is somewhat better since you can cast 9th level spells).

Of course, not all domains force you to transform into a different creature, because such a thing would be difficult to deal with (seriously, you'd expect me to turn you into an animal with the Animal domain capstone?), so ideally they'd gain a feature which is just as good, if not better, than the "type-shifting" capstone abilities. Having a permanent healing aura or a permanent concealment effect definitely has its uses.

[T.G. Oskar]

Pious Templar and domains from outside the Player’s Handbook
The domains mentioned above apply mostly to domains found in the Player’s Handbook . Domain spells from other supplements may be either similar or related to the above-mentioned domains, while others are significantly different. The following is a list of domains that are equivalent to the domains presented in the Player’s Handbook.

Celerity: Travel
Cold: Water
Deathbound: Death
Glory: Sun
Ocean: Water
Planning: Knowledge
Portal: Travel
Renewal: Healing
Spell: Magic
Storm: Air
Undeath: Death
Windstorm: Air

For purposes of mettle and evasion, if the domain’s saving grace class feature increases only Reflex, the pious templar gains evasion; otherwise, it gains mettle. The pious templar also gains evasion if the domain’s saving grace class feature grants Reflex alongside one or both of Fortitude and Will, and the gained abilities include at least one of the following: bonus to Dexterity, bonus to Reflex saves, bonus to initiative checks, bonus to Dexterity-based skill checks or ability checks.

Yes, I'm tackling a HUGE lot of the other domains. In fact, pretty much all of the Spell Compendium domains except the planar domains.

I'll separate the commentary in parts, if only because all three "sections" are distinct and because one HUGE spoiler block might confuse people. This first deals with the domains which already have a degree of substitution, based on the Complete Champion supplement. As you can see, choosing the aforementioned domain grants the Deity's Gift, Deity's Promise, Deity's Grace, Empowered Smite and Saving Grace related to the tied domain, so someone who chooses the Windstorm domain is treated as if it chose the Windstorm domain.

The latter paragraph applies to all domains in particular, given the nature of Evasion. As you might notice, Mettle has prevalence over Evasion; this is intentional. Some domains may be best suited for Evasion but still have the Fortitude or Will as good saves alongside Reflex, so Mettle wouldn't be good for them. Thus, the above-mentioned paragraph details the exceptions that cause the Pious Templar to gain Evasion instead of Mettle even if they have good Fortitude and/or Will saves alongside Reflex.

Each "enabler", so to speak, details something the domain offers as a granted power, or as one of the class features of the Pious Templar itself. For example: the Competition domain grants a competence bonus on Dexterity checks (and with all other ability checks), so they'll most likely gain Evasion even if they have all three good saves. There ARE some exceptions (Dream and Fate, mostly), something I haven't been able to tackle well, but that seem fit to receive Evasion instead of Mettle. A Pious Templar can only gain Evasion OR Mettle, not both abilities, so the last paragraph is important.

The following domains are similar to domains mentioned in the Player’s Handbook, but often deal with a different kind of ability that merits certain changes.

Balance: As Chaos, Evil, Good or Law domain, but replace the following.
Deity’s Gift: Outsiders with the chaos, evil, good or law domains take a -1 penalty on attack rolls
Empowered Smite: Creatures with at least one non-neutral alignment take 1-1/2 times the extra damage. Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil creatures take double damage. Neutral creatures take no damage.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar’s skin shows no difference, but her appearance neither improves nor worsens whenever such situations may arise. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/-, where X is equal to half her class level, against the attacks of any creature that is not neutral. As well, she is under the constant protection of a protection from evil spell, but affects the attacks and spells of chaotic, good or lawful creatures as well.
Deity’s Promise: the pious templar is forevermore treated as an outsider, and gains the native subtype. She gains SR 15 + character level against spells with a chaotic, evil, good or lawful descriptor.

Charm, Domination: as the Magic domain, except the benefits only apply to enchantment spells. Replace the following.
Empowered Smite: The pious templar may decide to deal no damage with her smite attempt. If she does, a successful smite attempt imposes a penalty on Will saving throws equal to half her class level. This penalty stacks with other penalties to Will saving throws, except this one.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar empowers her enchantment abilities. Her caster level with pious templar spells and spells from the enchantment school is equal to her character level. As well, she may affect creatures that are immune to mind-affecting spells, but the latter gain a bonus of +10 to their saving throws.

Community, Family: as the Healing domain. Replace as follows.
Deity’s Gift: Bonus on aid another checks equal to half her class level.
Empowered Smite: Whenever an ally within 30 feet of you has been attacked by an opponent adjacent to the pious templar, she may expend a smite attempt as an immediate action. The pious templar may make one attack against the creature (even if not adjacent to the opponent), with a bonus on attack rolls equal to her Charisma modifier and dealing an amount of extra damage equal to her class level. If the ally’s hit points are less than half her normal amount, the extra damage is doubled; if the enemy’s hit points are lower than 0, the extra damage is quadrupled.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar’s shows no specific physical traits, but her bonds with her allies strengthen. Allies within 30 feet gain a deflection bonus to AC and a bonus on saving throws against charm or compulsion spells, or spells with the fear or mind-affecting descriptor, equal to the pious templar’s Charisma modifier.

Craft, Creation: as the Magic domain, except the benefits only apply to conjuration (creation) spells. Replace the following:
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains a competence bonus on Craft skill checks equal to half her class level, and she treats her class level as an effective wizard level for purposes of activating wands and scrolls with conjuration (creation) spells.
Empowered Smite: By expending a smite attempt, the pious templar heals an amount of damage to any object or construct within 30 feet equal to the extra damage dealt.

Illusion: as the Magic domain, except the benefits only apply to illusion spells. Replace the following.
Empowered Smite: The victim of the smite attack must make a Will saving throw or be denied its Dexterity bonus to AC.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar empowers her illusion abilities. Her caster level with pious templar spells and spells from the illusion school is equal to her character level. As well, she may affect creatures that are immune to mind-affecting spells with her patterns and phantasms, but the latter gain a bonus of +10 to their saving throws.

Liberation: as the Chaos domain. Replace as follows.
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar’s skin becomes slick, and her movements become swifter. She gains a competence bonus on Escape Artist checks, saving throws against compulsion spells and to prevent being held, paralyzed, entangled or slowed.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar is under the constant effect of a mind blank spell and of a freedom of movement spell.

Moon: as the Sun domain, but affects lycanthropes instead of undead.

Mysticism: as the Magic domain, except the spells apply only to divine spells.

Oracle: as the Magic domain, except the benefits apply only to divination spells. Replace as following.
Empowered Smite: The victim of the smite attack is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC. Furthermore, the critical threat range for the smite is increased by 1
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar empowers her divination abilities. Her caster level with pious templar spells and spells from the enchantment school is equal to her character level. As well, she may affect creatures that are immune to scrying spells, but the latter gain a bonus of +10 to their saving throws.

Purification: as the Sun domain, but also affects aberrations. Replace as following.
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar ‘s remains clean and her vestments without stain. The pious templar may add one spell of the abjuration school (from either the cleric or sorcerer/wizard spell lists) to her spell list per spell level she has access to and prepare spells as usual. She must choose only one spell of the same level of spell she has access to (thus, a 6th level pious templar may choose one 0-level cantrip, one 1st level spell, one 2nd level spell and one 3rd level spell). As well, she gains an extra spell slot for each spell level she has access to. This only applies to spells she has acquired through her pious templar levels, not by levels in another class.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar manifests a circle of great purity. Treat as a magic circle against evil spell, except the effect only applies to undead and aberrations.

Tyranny: as the Law and Evil domains, but the benefits apply against good and chaotic creatures.

Drow, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Orc: as the Hatred domain, except the favored enemy is as follows.
Drow: humanoid (elf)
Dwarf: giant, humanoid (goblinoid), humanoid (orc)
Elf: humanoid (elf; drow only), humanoid (gnoll), humanoid (goblinoid), humanoid (orc)
Gnome: giant, humanoid (reptilian; kobold only), humanoid (goblinoid), humanoid (orc)
Halfling: giant, humanoid (goblinoid), humanoid (orc)
Orc: humanoid (dwarves), humanoid (elf)

Cavern: as Hatred, except treat all creatures from the following terrains: hills, mountains, underground. Replace the following.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar alters her physique to better deal with attacks in caverns, or underground. The pious templar gains a burrow speed equal to her land speed, tremorsense up to 30 feet (if she does not already has it), and gains a competence bonus on saving throws against hazards and underground traps equal to her class level.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains blindsight for up to 30 feet, or she adds 30 feet to her blindsight ability. Her tremorsense ability increases by 30 feet. She also gains DR X/adamantine, where X is equal to half her class level.

The above-mentioned domains usually hold only minor differences from other existing PHB domains, so they're easier to handle than the bulk of domains below. Basically, if they shared at least one ability amongst the two (for example, Purification and Sun), only the specified differences applied but the rest would be the same (thus, they get the extra abjuration spells and the unique MCaE effect, but they retain the Empowered Smite benefit of doubled damage to undead and aberrations, as well as the Sun's deity's grace). Others require only a little shift (Sun to Moon, for example), so there's no need to explain in detail what they gain, unlike the ones explained below.

The following domains are different enough to merit their own set of benefits.

Competition
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Reflex and Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar is treated as a size category larger for purposes of wielding weapons and opposed checks that have a size modifier.
Empowered Smite: The smite attack multiplies by 2 per every size category the opponent is larger than the pious templar (remember that two doublings equals a triple, and so forth). If the victim is smaller than the pious templar, the smite has no effect.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar gains a competence bonus on all ability checks, as well as opposed checks, equal to half her class level. This bonus applies to caster level checks to dispel magical effects (via dispel magic) and checks to defeat spell resistance.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar refuses to lose against difficult events. Once per day as a swift or immediate action, a pious templar may reroll an attack roll, saving throw, skill check or ability check. The reroll is done with a bonus on the roll equal to half the pious templar’s class level.

Courage
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar becomes immune to fear, and her aura of courage increases by 30 feet.
Empowered Smite: Extra damage dealt by the pious templar’s smite attack is doubled against creatures that have used any kind of fear ability during the last round. This includes demoralize attempts.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar becomes a bastion of courage upon her allies. The pious templar grants a morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws against fear effects equal to 1 per three class levels (maximum +3 at 10th level). If the pious templar has the inspire courage bardic music ability or similar ability, levels in pious templar stack with levels in a class that provides it to determine the maximum bonus provided by the ability.
Deity’s Promise: The courage of the pious templar manifests outwards. Creatures within her aura of courage are immune to fear effects. As well, the pious templar gains a +2 bonus to Strength, Constitution and Charisma.

Darkness
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Reflex
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains darkvision up to 60 feet (if it doesn’t have it already) and can see even in magical darkness (such as that caused by the darkness spell)
Empowered Smite: The victim of a smite attack must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or be blinded for one round per two class levels. Creatures comprised of light take double damage from the attack.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar manifests an aura of darkness that conquers even the strongest light. She gains concealment (20% miss chance) against all attacks, and the aura affects all creatures within 10 ft. of the pious templar.. A spell with the light descriptor must succeed on a caster level check, with a DC equal to 11 + the pious templar’s character level to suppress the aura of darkness for as long as the pious templar is on the area of the spell (even if it escapes and re-enters the area); otherwise, the aura of darkness cannot be suppressed for the duration of the spell. A spell with the darkness descriptor provides even darker illumination; the pious templar’s concealment increases to 50%.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar becomes one with the darkness. She gains the benefits of the dark creature template (see Tome of Magic, page 161), except she does not apply level adjustment (she effectively has paid it by taking levels in the pious templar prestige class), and her darkvision extends to 120 ft.

Dragon:
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains the Dragontouched and Draconic Heritage feats as bonus feats.
Empowered Smite: The extra damage from the smite attempt is of the same type as the dragon type chosen for her Draconic Heritage feat. By expending a smite attempt, she may release a breath weapon as if a dragon of the same size as her and of the same type as the one she chose for her Draconic Heritage feat, and the breath deals 1d8 points of damage per two class levels (Reflex save half)
Deity’s Grace: The eyes of the pious templar become like those of a dragon, her skin develops minuscule scales, and her muscles become lithe and graceful. The pious templar gains a natural armor bonus and a bonus to Reflex saves equal to her Charisma modifier. She also gains low-light vision and darkvision if she does not already has it. Finally, she manifests a natural weapon of her choice, dealing 1d6 points of damage (if a Medium creature); claws, fangs, tail.
Deity’s Promise: the pious templar is forevermore treated as a dragon, but she keeps her original type and her subtypes. The pious templar gains a +2 bonus on Strength, Constitution and Charisma, natural armor bonuses increase by 2, and the frightful presence of a dragon, except she may only affect creatures equal or lower to her character level, and the saving throw is Charisma-based.

Dream
Saving Grace: Reflex, Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar becomes immune to magic sleep effects. She may still sleep, as usual, but she does not have to; she still must rest for 8 hours if she casts arcane spells and for other abilities or traits that require an 8-hour rest.
Empowered Smite: The victim of a smite attack must succeed on a Will saving throw or fall asleep for one round per two class levels. Treat this effect as a magic sleep effect for purposes of determining immunities.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar gains awareness of her future by means of dreams. She gains an insight bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, saving throws and all Knowledge checks (including, if available, abilities such as bardic knowledge or lore) equal to 1 per three class levels.
If the pious templar has the Dreamtelling feat (from Heroes of Horror), she adds her class level to the Knowledge (the planes) check to identify a dream. If she has the Oneiromancy feat (from Heroes of Horror), she adds her insight bonus to the saving throw DC of any illusion or enhancement spell she casts. If she has the Dream Scion feat (from Secrets of Sarlona), she gains one extra daily use of her dreamtouched state (in addition to those she may already have based on her character level). If she has any dreamtouched feat (from Secrets of Sarlona) that grants an insight bonus, her bonuses granted by the feat and this ability stack.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains a +2 bonus to Wisdom, a bonus on all Knowledge checks equal to half her class level, and she may become incorporeal for 1 round per class level (these rounds need not be consecutive).
If the pious templar has the Oneiromancy feat (from Heroes of Horror), she gains Improved Oneiromancy as a bonus feat; if she already has this feat, she may choose a different bonus feat to which she may qualify. She adds the spells on the list as if they were one level lower to her pious templar spell list (minimum 1st level). Furthermore, she gains the ability to use dream sight (granted by both the Improved Oneiromancy feat and the Dream domain) as a spell-like ability once per day.

Envy
Saving Grace: None. A Pious Templar that chooses this domain gains a +1 bonus on a single ability check at first level, which increases by 1 for every three class levels after the first (up to +4 at 10th level).
Deity’s Gift: the pious templar gains a bonus equal to half her class level (rounded up) on the DC to prevent having any spell cast on her dispelled or suppressed. Thus, if someone attempts to dispel a spell cast by a 6th level cleric on a 3rd level pious templar with the Envy domain’s gift, the saving throw DC to succeed would be 19 (11 plus the caster level of the spell plus 2 for the pious templar’s class level).
Empowered Smite: whenever the pious templar makes a smite, she gains temporary hit points equal to half the damage dealt by the smite. These temporary hit points last for one minute. If she uses this ability and she already has temporary hit points from any other source (such as the aid spell), she may choose between the highest amount of the two and the temporary hit points last for either 1 minute or the duration of the highest temporary hit points, whichever is highest.
Deity’s Grace: If a pious templar chooses to ready a counterspell while using dispel magic or greater dispel magic to null the effects of a beneficial spell (such as divine power or polymorph), she steals the benefits of the spell on a successful dispel check. She may also gain the benefit if she counterspells as usual (by using the same spell, or a spell of one or more levels higher from the same school if using Improved Counterspell).
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar may choose to gain the benefit of a spell cast by another person. A number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier (but no more than once per encounter), whenever a spellcaster casts a beneficial spell on itself or an ally, the pious templar may gain the benefit of the spell as well. The pious templar must be a legal target of the spell (thus, she may not gain the benefit of animal growth unless she somehow counted as an animal), and must have both line of sight and line of effect to the spellcaster. The pious templar may not gain the benefit of a limited wish, wish, miracle or similar spell. The pious templar may choose to gain the benefit from a spell-like ability, psionic power, psi-like ability, invocation or mystery (even as a supernatural ability) instead of a spell, with the same restrictions.

Fate
Saving Grace: Reflex, Will
Deity’s Gift: Whenever the pious templar takes any penalty, the amount of the penalty is reduced to 1 (the penalty may be negated this way). For example, if the pious templar fails her Will saving throw against a fear effect to become shaken, the penalties are reduced by 1 (hence, she only takes a -1 penalty to attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks and saving throws).
Empowered Smite: When the pious templar makes a smite attack, anytime the damage roll ends up on a 1, she may reroll that dice; she uses the new result instead of the old one. This applies to weapon damage (but the pious templar must roll for damage; if the weapon deals 1 point of damage, she does not reroll for damage), weapon special properties (such as flaming or vicious), and added damage dice (such as that from sneak attack.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar negates the effect of a terrible event, but at the expense of karma. Once per encounter, when the pious templar makes a roll of 1 on a d20 (except for skill checks; hence, the effect must be a natural 1 that automatically causes her to fail the action), she may re-roll that dice. She must accept the result of the roll regardless of the results, even if it’s another natural 1. For a number of rounds equal to 11 minus the pious templar’s class level (minimum 1), she gains a -2 penalty on subsequent rolls. For example, if the player of a 6th level pious templar rolls a 1 on an attack roll, the player may roll again, but all attack rolls for the next 5 rounds take a penalty of -2.
Deity’s Promise: If the pious templar has the ability to re-roll any roll (such as by means of having the Luck domain granted power, the deity’s grace re-rolling ability, or the luck feats from Complete Scoundrel), she adds half her class level to the result of that roll.

Force:
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Reflex
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains a +2 deflection bonus to Armor Class.
Empowered Smite: The extra damage from the smite attempt is treated as force damage. Incorporeal creatures and creatures in the Ethereal Plane take double the extra damage.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar’s covers her weaponry and armor with a sheen of force. She adds her armor, shield and natural armor bonuses against touch attacks from incorporeal creatures, and she may attack incorporeal creatures as if she had the ghost touch special ability with her manufactured or natural weapons. Projectile weapons used by the pious templar bestow the benefit on the ammunition.
Deity’s Promise: the pious templar manifests a force field that prevents various threats from affecting her. She adds her armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses against all kinds of touch attacks (not just from incorporeal creatures), and becomes immune to the effects of spells and abilities that require inhaling (such as poisons or gases).

Gluttony
Saving Grace: Fortitude
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains a bite attack as a natural weapon. The bite attack deals damage based on a creature of the pious templar’s size (1d4 for Medium creatures), and is treated as a primary natural attack if she does not already have one. If the pious templar already has a bite attack (or if she gains a bite attack that deals more damage than this one), she is treated as one size larger for purposes of damage.
Empowered Smite: When the pious templar makes a smite attack, she deals 1 point of Constitution damage along with the extra damage from the smite. The pious templar gains temporary hit points equal to her character level, and these last for 1 minute. If she makes a smite attack with her bite, she may decide to deal Constitution damage equal to half her class level instead of smite damage; she thus may heal an amount of hit points equal to 1 for every four class levels times her character level. Thus, a 5th level fighter/7th level pious templar with this ability heals 24 hit points (character level 12th times 2 for her class levels).
Deity’s Grace: Whenever a pious templar is healed of any type of damage, any amount that exceeds her full normal hit points are instead treated as temporary hit points that last for 1 minute.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar is gifted with the ability to gorge herself with food without restraints, and to devour any kind of food…even if it’s still living, armored, and unwilling to be devoured. She gains a +2 bonus to Constitution. Furthermore, a number of times per day equal to her Constitution modifier, the pious templar may swallow a creature whole. Treat as the swallow whole ability, except as follows: the pious templar may swallow a creature of her size category or smaller (quadrupeds or similar creatures are treated as one size category larger for purposes of qualification). Once inside, the opponent is dealt automatic bite damage each round (if the bite is considered a secondary natural attack, the pious templar adds her full Strength modifier to the damage). A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal up to one-eighth the pious templar’s full normal hit points of damage to the gizzard (AC 10 plus either ½ her natural armor bonus or ½ her class level, whichever is higher). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

Greed
Saving Throw: Reflex
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar adds half her class level to all grapple checks, as well as to all the skill checks that appear on her domain granted power. She is also treated as one size category larger when making opposed grapple checks.
Empowered Smite: If the pious templar succeeds on a smite attack against a creature armed with a manufactured weapon, she gains a free disarm attempt. She adds half her class level to the opposed disarm check, and is treated as one size category larger for purposes of the opposed check. If she has one free hand, a successful disarm attempt allows her to grab the disarmed weapon.
Deity’s Grace: Once the pious templar has gained a hold on something, it does not let it go. By expending a smite attempt as a swift action (or two daily uses of turn/rebuke undead, if she has the ability) when making a successful grapple check, the creature ignores supernatural or magical-based means to resist grappling (such as grease on a person, or freedom of movement), and she can neglect a grappled creature’s ability to teleport (as if the creature had dimensional anchor).
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar becomes extremely covetous with a specific benefit, but her fickleness causes her to hoard the most recent benefit and disregard the other. Whenever she receives the benefit of a beneficial spell (such as bless or enlarge person), the duration of the spell becomes permanent on her. She may only retain the benefit of a single spell at any moment, and if she receives the benefit of a new spell, the old one resumes its earlier duration (if any; rounds, minutes or hours spent after she holds the benefit of a spell count against the remaining duration of the spell) and the new spell becomes permanent; thus, if she was holding the benefit of a polymorph spell and she receives the benefit of a bless spell, the polymorph spell’s benefit is no longer held (and resumes its supposed duration; if the spell was supposed to expire during the amount of time she held the spell, the spell immediately expires). Spells that can be dismissed can be affected by this feature (and may be dismissed as usual), but she may not retain the effect of spells that can be discharged (such as protection from energy or stoneskin, which discharge after the target has received a specific amount of damage, or improvisationSC which grants a pool of points and the spell discharges after all have been used or the number of rounds expires, or a spell that can be discharged to gain a better effect), or spells with an instantaneous or permanent duration.

Hatred:
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains the favored enemy class ability, as the ability of a 1st level ranger. If she already has the favored enemy class ability, her levels in pious templar stack with the levels in the class that grants the ability.
Empowered Smite: Any creature that is the favored enemy of the pious templar takes double the extra damage.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar alters her physique to better deal with attacks from her favored enemies. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/-, where X is equal to half her class level against attacks from all of her favored enemies. As well, she gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus to saves against attacks dealt by her favored enemies.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains SR 15 + character level against the spells and spell-like abilities of her favored enemies.

Hunger: as the Gluttony domain.

Inquisition:
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains the favored enemy class ability, as the ability of a 1st level ranger. If she already has the favored enemy class ability, her levels in pious templar stack with the levels in the class that grants the ability. The pious templar may only apply her acquired favored enemy bonus to creatures to which the deity has enmity to.
Empowered Smite: The pious templar adds her Intelligence modifier (if any) to the attack and damage rolls. If the pious templar has ranks in the Knowledge skill that identifies her favored enemy, she deals extra damage equal to half the ranks she has in the Knowledge skill.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar gains preternatural knowledge of her favored enemy. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/-, where X is equal to half her class level against attacks from all of her favored enemies. She gains a +2 bonus to her Intelligence score and a competence bonus on Knowledge checks equal to half her class level when identifying her favored enemy.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains SR 15 + character level against the spells and spell-like abilities of her favored enemies.

Lust
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar becomes immune to all charm effects.
Empowered Smite: When making a smite attack, the pious templar may choose to either charm or weaken her target. The pious templar may transform all damage from the smite into non-lethal damage: if she does so, the target must succeed on a Will saving throw or become charmed for one minute per class level. If the pious templar chooses to deal lethal damage, the target must instead do a Fortitude saving throw or gain a penalty of -2 to Constitution, all saving throws, and to Constitution-based skill checks and ability checks (which stacks with the penalty to Constitution, hence the actual penalty on Con-based checks is equal to -3).
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar becomes seductive and comely, urging those who fall upon her lust to refuse to attack her and become vulnerable to her charms. Any creature with an Intelligence of 3 or higher and a gender opposed to the pious templar’s own takes a -2 penalty on all Will saves and must make a Will saving throw in order to attack her (as if she received the benefit of the sanctuary spell); if the creature succeeds on the saving throw, it may attack the pious templar as usual and is not affected by the aura for 24 hours, or until the pious templar succeeds on a charm or compulsion spell against the creature.
Inquisition:
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains the favored enemy class ability, as the ability of a 1st level ranger. If she already has the favored enemy class ability, her levels in pious templar stack with the levels in the class that grants the ability. The pious templar may only apply her acquired favored enemy bonus to creatures to which the deity has enmity to.
Empowered Smite: The pious templar adds her Intelligence modifier (if any) to the attack and damage rolls. If the pious templar has ranks in the Knowledge skill that identifies her favored enemy, she deals extra damage equal to half the ranks she has in the Knowledge skill.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar gains preternatural knowledge of her favored enemy. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/-, where X is equal to half her class level against attacks from all of her favored enemies. She gains a +2 bonus to her Intelligence score and a competence bonus on Knowledge checks equal to half her class level when identifying her favored enemy.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains SR 15 + character level against the spells and spell-like abilities of her favored enemies. The pious templar becomes extremely seductive, much like a succubus but without the perils and alignment of the fiend. The pious templar gains a +4 to Charisma, the shapechanger subtype, and the minor change shape ability as if it were a changeling (see EBERRON ™ Campaign Setting for rules about minor change shape). As well, she adds half her class level to the saving throw DC of all charm and compulsion spells, regardless of the type of spell. If the pious templar uses her minor change shape ability to transform into a member of the opposite gender, he or she no longer affects members of said gender with his or her deity’s grace class ability, but may affect members of his or her original gender (thus, a male pious templar with the Lust domain that becomes a female no longer can affect other females, but may affect males). The pious templar also adds half her class level as a competence bonus to all Bluff and Diplomacy checks.

Madness
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar becomes immune to confusion, feeblemind and insanity. However, the pious templar must still make a Will saving throw; if she fails, she may not apply her saving grace for the amount of round the spell would have lasted or 24 hours, whichever is lower.
Empowered Smite: When the pious templar makes a smite attack, the target must succeed on a Will saving throw or become confused for a number of rounds equal to half her class level.
Deity’s Grace: What questionable “grace” may be given to a pious templar of a deity with the Madness domain is left to them to ponder, but they gain a particularly brutal ability which affects all those who wish to affect her already shaken mind. Whenever a creature attempts a spell or spell-like ability from the enchantment school, or a psionic power or psi-like ability from the telepathy discipline, the telepathy ability or an ability based off telepathy, or a supernatural ability that has the mind-affecting descriptor and that involves negatively affecting the mind of the pious templar, the creature must also make a save or be affected by the same ability (in the case of a spell such as dominate monster, the pious templar instead wrests control of the spell). If the pious templar succeeds on the save, the effect worsens: the saving throw DC for the effect increases by an amount equal to half her class level. If the creature has immunity to mind-affecting effects (such as having the mind blank ability), the pious templar must make a caster level check using her own caster level or the caster (or manifester) level of the creature that used the ability, whichever is higher; moreover, she gains a bonus on the caster level check equal to half her class level if she succeeds on the saving throw.
Deity’s Promise: The deity of the pious templar twists not only the mind of the pious templar, but also her body. She forevermore becomes an aberration. Furthermore, she gains a +2 bonus on Constitution and either a +2 bonus to Wisdom or Charisma, but she gains a permanent -2 penalty on the ability score she didn’t choose (thus, if she chooses Charisma, she gains a penalty to Wisdom). However, this penalty manifests not only inwards, but outwards: any creature within 30 feet of the pious templar takes the same penalty as her.

Mentalism: as the Mind domain, except as follows:
Empowered Smite: If the pious templar succeeds on her smite, she may elect to forego her smite damage to drain power points from the enemy. She drains an amount of power points from her enemy equal to half the extra damage she would have otherwise dealt (thus, a 6th level pious templar drains 3 power points if she foregoes her extra smite damage). These power points remain for a number of rounds equal to the pious templar’s class level, and then dissipate harmlessly. If the creature has no power points, the pious templar drains no power points but she deals no damage (she still benefits from adding her Charisma modifier to attack).
Deity’s Grace: As the Mind domain deity’s grace class ability, except she may sacrifice a spell and manifest a power from the clairsentience or telepathy psion discipline powers (see the psion class description and psion discipline power lists on Expanded Psionics Handbook). She must make a choice between clairsentience or telepathy (as a psion must decide if becoming a seer or a telepath); once the choice is made, it is permanent and cannot be changed.
Deity’s Promise: As the Mind domain deity’s promise class ability, except she may only manifest a very small amount of powers which depend on the choice of discipline the pious templar made when she gained the deity’s grace class feature:
Clairsentience: 1st—destiny dissonance, precognition; 2nd—clairvoyant sense, object reading, sensitivity to psychic impressions, 3rd—escape detection, fate link, 4th—anchored navigation, remote beacon
Telepathy: 1st—mindlink, psionic charm, 2nd—aversion, brain lock, psionic suggestion, read thoughts, 3rd—crisis of breath, false sensory input, hostile empathic transfer; 4th—psionic dominate, psionic modify memory

Metal
Saving Grace: Fortitude
Deity’s Gift: Whenever the pious templar wears metal armor, it is treated as if it were mithral for all purposes. If the metal armor already is mithral, the benefits of the material are improved by 1 (thus, the armor check penalty is reduced by 1, and the maximum Dexterity penalty increases by 1), but the armor remains as the same category for purposes of movement (as in, it doesn’t lower one step as mithral does).
Empowered Smite: The smite damage is considered to be either adamantine, cold iron or silver for purposes of bypassing damage reduction. As well, if the weapon can already bypass that damage reduction, the damage from the smite doubles.
Deity’s Grace: Metal armor and shields worn by the pious templar becomes even more effective than before, and metal weapons wielded by her are much more lethal. The armor (or shield) bonus provided by a metal armor (or shield) worn by the pious templar increases by 1 for every three class levels. As well, metal armor is treated as if having light fortification (if the weapon has already fortification, increase the benefit by 25%; heavy fortification provides no further benefit). A metal weapon deals damage as if it were one size category larger. As well, any metallic item worn by the pious templar is treated as if it were made of adamantine for purposes of durability and hardness.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar becomes slightly metallic, her body gaining a metallic sheen and manifesting a blend of several metals in hue. The pious templar gains a natural armor bonus equal to half her class level, or increases her existing natural bonus by the same amount; as well, she gains damage reduction X/magic and adamantine, where X is equal to her class level. She is treated as if having light fortification even if she doesn’t wear metal armor. The pious templar also gains a slam attack that deals damage as a natural weapon of a creature of her size (1d6 for Medium creatures), and the slam attack counts as adamantine, cold iron and/or silver for purposes of bypassing damage reduction.

Mind
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains the Hidden Talent feat as a bonus feat.
Empowered Smite: By expending her psionic focus, a pious templar doubles the extra damage dealt by her smite attack.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar awakens a greater amount of psionic potential, and her eyes shine with mystical glow. The pious templar may choose a mantle granted by her deity. She gains the mantle’s granted power, and by expending a spell slot, she may manifest a psionic power from her mantle, as follows:

{TABLE=head]Spell Level|Power Level|Power Points
1st|1st|1
2nd|2nd or lower|3
3rd|3rd or lower|5
4th|4th or lower|7[/TABLE]

If the pious templar has a power point reserve, she may augment her manifested power by expending power points. The pious templar is treated as if having a manifester level equal to her caster level for purposes of augmenting feats from the mantle exclusively. If the power allows a saving throw, use the pious templar’s Charisma modifier.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar fully awakens to her psionic potential acquired through her Hidden Talent feat. She gains a reserve of power points equal to twice her class level, her manifester level for purposes of her Hidden Talent granted psionic power, and to activate power stones and dorjes, is treated as that of a psion or wilder of her class level. Finally, she may manifest powers from her granted mantle as if she knew them, up to 4th level powers.

This list is so MASSIVE, I have to split it in two. I went with roughly half the remaining domains in this post, stopping right at one domain I want to explain a bit in detail: Mind.

You see, the Mind domain is a domain originally appearing at the Expanded Psionics Handbook, where the cleric could gain a modicum of psionic potential. I expanded on this a bit further, tying it nicely to the mantles appearing in Complete Psionic gained by the psionic cleric, the Ardent (come on, don't tell me that the Ardent is basically a Cleric with psychic powers!!).

The deity's grace ability of the Mind domain, on the other hand, can be a bit confusing. Basically, if you have NO psionic ability other than the Hidden Talent trait, you have the exact amount of "power points" to manifest the power, but if you have a higher amount of the resource (such as by being a Kalashtar), you can use that power point reserve to augment the power. Eventually, the Pious Templar gains the ability to manifest her own amount of powers, but only up to 4th level powers (much like the Paladin can only cast up to 4th level spells), breaking a bit with the notion of the Psychic Warrior having up to 6th level powers. The psionic ability they gain is pretty limited, and that is intentional since the Pious Templar is still a divine character.

Mentalism, on the other hand, has a slightly expanded spell list in that they get all the discipline powers of either Clairsentience or Telepathy. While the two disciplines aren't some of the most powerful, the fact that you get more than what you'd get from a single mantle sort of balances this out.

Now, consider that because you get a small modicum of psionic power, you qualify for feats such as Expanded Knowledge and Tap/Don Mantle, so you can expand your psionic potential even further if you desire, at the cost of feat slots.

Another thing that you'll notice is that some of the domains are pretty extravagant, and the powers that it grant can be quite definitely unfair compared to the PHB domains. This is intentional, since most of the domains can't be taken unless you're a Pious Templar of a specific philosophy, given that there are a few domains that aren't easily accessible. Trying to balance each domain to offer a similar yet flavorful degree of power takes a mammoth effort, so it's much better if you guys assist with it by having more than one eye catch up any perceived imbalances and discuss ways to solve them. Do consider that some gifts may seem a bit more overpowering than others, but trying to catch the essence and flavor of each domain is really a difficult task for one person.

[NineThePuma]

You enjoy making reading heavy stuff, huh?

Alright, I'll read Pious Templar in a bit. I thought I'd poke my head in to thank you, though. =3 Your discussion of Chassi(ses?) is helping me with the class I'm working on now. It is ending up with a flavor very similar to the Black Guard, but executes very differently from everything I've ever seen you make. x3 Anyways, will read as soon as I'm done.

[Elfstone]

I like it. Soooo many options with domains. But there are alot more. You plan on providing options on them all? Also, pure genius with the improving saves, never seen anyone do THAT before.

[T.G. Oskar]

I like it. Soooo many options with domains. But there are alot more. You plan on providing options on them all?

Not all domains, but a great deal of them. If I were to deal with the setting-exclusive domains, I'll never have enough time to finish them. Even with the Spell Compendium domains, I had to cut the original document in two in order to make things work out.

Speaking of the other half...
Nobility
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar adds half her class level to all Diplomacy, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) and Sense Motive checks.
Empowered Smite: When a pious templar makes a smite attack, the target must succeed on a Will saving throw or become fascinated for a number of rounds equal to half her class level. Unlike other kinds of fascination, the target does not gain a saving throw for potential threats, nor the effect breaks if the target is aware that it is being targeted, unless the target is attacked and dealt damage. The target is treated as flat-footed while fascinated.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar inspires such presence that people become awed. During the first round of battle, any creature that has line of sight to the pious templar and fails a Will saving throw is considered cowering in awe, becoming unable to act and allowing all of its enemies (the pious templar and her allies) a +2 on all attack rolls. The effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to half the pious templar’s class level, or until the pious templar attacks the creature (in which case the effect ends for that creature only).
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar irradiates an aura of confidence, resolve, and a powerful presence that inspires all of her allies to strive forth. She gains a +2 bonus to her Charisma ability score, and she emits an aura that grants a +2 morale bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saving throws to herself and all allies within 30 ft. Furthermore, any creature that is commanded by magical or supernatural means (such as from the dominate monster spell) by an enemy may make another saving throw (if the ability allows it) to shake off the effect; this benefit does not apply to creatures controlled by the pious templar or by allies.

Pact
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Will
Deity’s Gift: A pious templar gains a bonus equal to half her class level on all Diplomacy checks.
Empowered Smite: When a pious templar smites an enemy, she may swear an oath to defeat that enemy as a free action. The pious templar gains a bonus on her attack rolls and damage rolls equal to her Charisma modifier against the enemy until the end of the encounter, the creature reaches 0 HP, or the creature surrenders. In the case the creature surrenders, if the pious templar accepts the surrender and the enemy then attacks, the enemy is cursed (as if it were the victim of a mark of justice) until it defeats the pious templar. The pious templar chooses the curse that the enemy may suffer from the list of curses in the bestow curse spell description.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar gains the ability to make lesser pacts with her deity, having earned its favor. Once per day, the pious templar may gain the benefit of a stalwart pact or zealot pact spell without expending XP. The pact remains dormant, as usual for the spells, until active, and the effective caster level for the spell is equal to twice the pious templar’s class level.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains the ability to make greater pacts with her deity, having earned its favor. She may gain the benefit of either a renewal pact or death pact spell alongside the pacts she may enable as part of her deity’s grace class feature, but only once per week instead of once per day. In the case of death pact, the pious templar’s loss of Constitution lasts for only one day.

Pestilence
Saving Grace: Fortitude
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar adds half her class level to the saving throw DC of all poisons and diseases.
Empowered Smite: When a pious templar smites an enemy, the target must make a Fortitude saving throw or be automatically infected with an injury disease of her choice. Unlike other diseases, the infection occurs instantly, causing the indicated ability score damage the round after it was infected and recurring damage happens in minutes instead of days. If the target fails its saving throw by a number equal to 10 minus half the pious templar’s class level (minimum of 5), the disease causes damage in rounds instead of minutes or days.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar becomes a focus of infection. If the pious templar is affected by a contact disease and negates it by means of the Pestilence granted domain power, she may hold the disease and infect an enemy with a touch. The disease still requires an incubation time, but time spent within the pious templar count against the time required to incubate: if the disease achieves its incubation time, the target must make a Fortitude save or take damage as indicated.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar mars any instance of beauty she may have had, showing the telltale signs of an infection but otherwise remaining unusually healthy. She gains a +4 bonus to her Constitution ability score, and she unleashes an aura of plague that accelerates the damage of any disease. If a creature is within 30 feet of the pious templar and currently suffers a disease, the creature must make Fortitude saves each minute instead of each day for as long as it remains within her aura. The effect persists even after the creature escapes: the creature needs only to be one full round within range of the pious templar aura to cause a Fortitude save against disease on the next minute, but the creature does not need to make another saving throw afterwards until it spends at least one full round near the pious templar’s aura once the saving throw is made. As well, the pious templar may expend a use of her smite ability to cause all enemies within range of her aura to be automatically infected with an inhalation disease of her choice; the incubation time is calculated in minutes instead of days, however.

Pride
Saving Throw: Will
Deity’s Gift: The domain granted power of the pious templar applies on any natural 1 roll (be it attack roll, saving throw or similar rolls that automatically fail on a result of 1 on a d20). As well, she gains another daily use of her domain granted power.
Empowered Smite: A pious templar that misses on her smite does not lose her smite attempt. If she attempts it again on the next turn and succeeds, she deals twice the extra damage; regardless of the result, she expends the smite attempt.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar does not take failure as an option, and tries to make sure she does not repeat her mistake. Whenever the pious templar fails in executing an action (such as missing on a melee attack, miss chance because of concealment, or her action was otherwise denied because of a failed roll), the next time she attempts the action she gains a bonus equal to her class level on the roll (thus, a 6th level pious templar adds a +6 on the next attack after the one she missed, or she needs a result of 26 on her percentile chance) for that attack; if she succeeds, she adds half her class level to all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks until the end of her next turn; if she fails, she instead gains a penalty on the same rolls equal to half her class level.
Deity’s Promise: Fueled by the power of her deity, the pious templar becomes unable to fail on her goal. She may expend one daily use of her domain granted power as a swift action to treat her next roll as either an automatic success or the maximum result (thus, she may decide to automatically succeed on her next attack, or have her damage roll deal the maximum possible damage). She must make the choice before she makes the roll. As well, she gains another daily use of her domain granted power.

I have to make a special note about this, since IIRC the Pride domain doesn't have a set of daily uses. Just so you know this one is pending a rewrite.

Retribution
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls against creatures that attacked her during the last round, and a +4 bonus on damage rolls when making attacks of opportunity.
Empowered Smite: Extra damage dealt by the smite attack is doubled if the creature attacked the pious templar at any moment during the last round.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar is surrounded by a vindictive aura. The pious templar gains damage reduction X/-, where X is equal to half her class level. At any moment she reduces damage by means of this damage reduction, she returns an amount of equal damage to the attacker.
Deity’s Promise: A number of times per day equal to half her class level plus her Charisma modifier, the pious templar may unleash a terrible backlash against the enemy. The creature must succeed on a Will saving throw (DC equal to 10 + the pious templar’s class level + the pious templar’s Charisma modifier) or take an amount of damage equal to the damage dealt; success reduces the damage to half the amount. The damage dealt is considered divine damage and thus cannot be reduced by damage reduction or resistance to any kind of energy; as well, it ignores regeneration and thus always causes lethal damage.

Rune
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar adds half her class level to the saving throw DC of all spells that contain runes, glyphs or symbols. She also adds half her class level to all Decipher Script checks, and she adds Decipher Script to her list of class skills.
Empowered Smite: When the pious templar makes her smite attack, she may make a magical rune mark on her target. For a number of rounds equal to her class level plus her Wisdom modifier, the pious templar automatically detects the location and position of the target, even if the target is invisible or concealed. This means she ignores any miss chance granted by invisibility or concealment (but not because of being incorporeal).
Deity’s Grace: When casting a spell of her pious templar spell list, she may treat the spell as if automatically affected by the Silent Spell metamagic feat, at no additional cost. However, all of her spells now have a somatic component (even if they didn’t have one in the first place), and this cost may not be waived.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar unlocks the magic of the runes, and she starts to develop mystical glyphs. She gains a +2 bonus to her Intelligence and Wisdom scores. As well, she may prepare spells as runes on her body, but only from her pious templar spell list and the spell must not take more than a standard action. If she chooses to do so, she may activate the spell by touching as a swift action and requires no verbal component, although she still requires to make the somatic component and have the right material component at hand. The runespells are treated as if having a range of personal, and all spells are considered dischargeable.
If using the rules from Races of Destiny, the character is forevermore treated as an illumian for purposes of qualifying for feats and abilities.

Scalykind
Saving Grace: Reflex
Deity’s Gift: The blood of a pious templar becomes mildly cold-blooded.
Empowered Smite: When making a smite attack against humanoids with the reptilian subtype, scaled animals such as snakes or some lizards, creatures with natural armor based on scales, or dragons, she deals double the extra damage.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar develops small scales. She gains a natural armor bonus to Armor Class equal to half her class level or increases her existing natural armor bonus by 3, whichever gives the highest result (do not count enhancement bonuses to natural armor for purposes of determining the highest result).
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar is treated as a reptilian creature, gaining the benefits of one but neglecting some of the weaknesses that may come with it. The pious templar gains a +2 bonus to her Dexterity ability score, a +3 racial bonus to Reflex saves, and she gains a claw attack as a natural weapon that deals the same damage as that of a creature her size (1d4 for Medium creatures; if the creature already has a claw or bite weapon, these are treated as that of a creature one size category larger). A humanoid creature gains the reptilian subtype, while a non-humanoid creature is treated as if it were a humanoid (reptilian) creature for all purposes. This also means they become vulnerable to bane weapons of the same kind, but are not treated as humanoid (reptilians) for purposes of favored enemy bonuses.

Yes, the Deity's Gift for the Scalykind domain makes no sense. The fix I made to it is somehow lost (Notepad T.T), so it's also pending a minor rewrite. Thinking about a permanent Endure Elements effect?

Slime
Saving Grace: Fortitude
Deity’s Gift: The character gains a bonus on Escape Artist checks and opposed grapple checks.
Empowered Smite: The smite attack deals acid damage, and the creature must succeed on a Reflex saving throw or become entangled for a number of rounds equal to half the pious templar’s class level. Each turn in which the creature remains entangled, the creature takes damage equal to half the extra damage of the pious templar’s smite.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar’s body structure becomes flexible and malleable, similar to that of an ooze. The pious templar gains the slight build ability: whenever a pious templar is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), she is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to her. A pious templar is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A pious templar can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a pious templar remain those of a creature of her actual size. The benefits of this ability stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.
If the pious templar already has this ability as a racial trait, the pious templar gains no further benefit.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar’s body becomes that of an ooze; although she still retains a flesh and muscle body and keeps her usual shape, her body loses most of its reflexes. She is forevermore treated as an ooze, gaining the immunities and neglecting other creatures the ability to flank or deal critical hits, but she retains her sight, her mental ability scores and most of her abilities. However, her Dexterity is treated as if it were 1 for purposes of Dexterity bonus to Armor class and Reflex saving throws, and the pious templar loses any evasion ability it may have had (and cannot gain a similar ability). She also no longer bleeds, thus she automatically becomes stable if under 0 HP but over -9 HP and is not affected by abilities that cause her to bleed, but her body is destroyed if she reaches -10 HP.

Sloth
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar adds her class level to all Fortitude saves to prevent fatigue or exhaustion, but if she fails her save, she becomes exhausted even if the ability caused her to be fatigued instead (this also applies to automatic fatigue effects).
Empowered Smite: When a pious templar succeeds on a smite, the creature must make a Will save or become slowed for a number of rounds equal to half the pious templar’s class level; if successful, the creature becomes fatigued instead. This secondary ability does not work on creatures immune to sleep, raging, or similar conditions that allow the creature to remain active. If the creature is under the benefit of a spell that increases its movement (such as expeditious retreat or haste), the pious templar may roll a dispel check (with a bonus equal to twice her pious templar class level, to a maximum of 20) to dispel the effect.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar is rewarded for resting more than she should. If she is affected by a sleep effect, she gains fast healing 1 for every three pious templar class levels for as long as the effect lasts. If the pious templar spends one round doing absolutely nothing (neither moving nor doing actions that would be considered strenuous, although purely mental abilities and defense do not count for this), she is immediately healed by an amount equal to 1d8 per pious templar class level per round she spends doing nothing; she must be facing a creature of a CR equal or greater than her character level in order to gain the benefit.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar induces lethargy in all creatures, but only her allies gain a benefit from said lethargy. All creatures within 30 feet of the pious templar (including allies, but not herself) take a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, AC and Reflex saving throws, but her allies also gain fast healing 1. If she spends the entire round doing nothing, the penalties are instead equal to half her class level but her allies are not affected by the increased penalty (thus, allies only take a penalty of -2 on the aforementioned stats) but their fast healing increases to an amount equal to the same amount of penalty she imposes to other creatures. As well, she may, as a swift action, grant the benefit of her deity’s grace class ability-based healing to an ally within 30 ft.; this action is not considered a strenuous action for purposes of her deity’s grace class ability.

Spider
Saving Grace: Fortitude
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains a bonus on Balance checks equal to half her class level.
Empowered Smite: When she succeeds on a smite, the creature must make a Fortitude save or become poisoned. The poison deals 1d4 points of Strength damage as initial and secondary damage. At 7th level, the poison damage increases to 1d6 Strength damage, and at 10th level the poison damage also causes unconsciousness for a number of rounds equal to half the pious templar’s class level.
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains extraordinary stability and balance, and the ability to climb as well as spiders do.The pious templar gains a climb speed equal to her base land speed. If she casts spider climb, the climb speed granted by the spell is equal to 20 + her base land speed. She may also move upon webs (either those created by spiders, or those created by the web spell), naturally or magically overgrown terrain (such as that from a entangle spell) without difficulty if she succeeds on her Reflex save. She also gains a bonus equal to half her class level on all Reflex saves to prevent becoming entangled or prone, as well as on her opposed checks against bull rush and trip (but only when a creature executes them, not when the pious templar executes the abilities)
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains some of the properties of spiders, resembling a drider in appearance but with several unique benefits. Unlike the actual drider, this transformation is actually beneficial to her as she can resume her appearance at will. The pious templar is forevermore treated as an aberration, gains a +2 natural armor bonus (or increases her existing natural armor bonus by that amount), and gains a +2 bonus to either her Wisdom or her Charisma ability scores. As well, once per day, she may transform the lower half of her body into a spiderlike shape, granting her a +4 bonus on Strength and Constitution scores, her natural armor bonus (or increment to natural armor bonus) is now equal to half her class level, her size increases to one category larger (up to Huge size; if a creature is Huge or larger, it remains the same size but gains a further +2 to Strength), and gains the ability to spin a web (as a monstrous spider of her size category) a number of rounds per day equal to 1+half her class level. The transformation lasts for a number of rounds equal to her class level.

Suffering
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar becomes immune to any effect that relates to pain (such as the effect from a symbol of pain spell)
Empowered Smite: If a pious templar succeeds on her smite, the target must make a Fortitude save or take a penalty equal to half her class level on attack rolls and all saving throws for a number of rounds equal to half her class level. If the save fails by 5 or more, the creature is nauseated instead, but the penalties for being nauseated are instead equal to half the pious templar’s class level, and creatures immune to nausea are not immune to this ability.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar causes pain and suffering to those who surround her with hostile intentions. Any enemy within 30 ft. takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks. The first time the enemy enters in contact with the pious templar, it must make a Will saving throw; if successful, the creature is immune to the painful effects of the pious templar for the next 24 hours; otherwise, the creature receives the effects of the penalty for as long as it remains on the aura regardless of how many times it reenters.
Deity’s Promise: The pain and the suffering of the pious templar is magnified outwards. All enemies within 30 ft. of the pious templar’s deity’s grace class ability that are currently suffering from penalty effects take an amount of hit point damage equal to half her class level. As well, when the pious templar is dealt a melee attack (or a ranged attack within 30 ft.), the attacker must make a Will saving throw or become nauseated for 1 round (or until the start of the pious templar’s next turn).

Summoner
Saving Grace: Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains Augment Summoning as a bonus feat. If she already has this feat, she may choose a bonus feat from those in which she meets the prerequisites.
Empowered Smite: The pious templar deals double damage to creatures that are currently commanding a summoned creature, or that are exerting their mental influence over others (such as a spellcaster using dominate monster).
Alternatively, she may choose to deal no damage with the smite against creatures that would otherwise take double damage from her smite or that are currently summoned, under a charm or compulsion effect. Summoners or controllers (those that are currently controlling another creature) must make a Concentration check (with a saving throw DC equal to 13 + the pious templar’s character level + the pious templar’s Charisma modifier) or lose control over their summoned monsters or controlled creatures; in the case of a pious templar using her smite ability on a summoned or controlled creature and choosing to deal no damage, the summoner or controller must make a Concentration check or have their control over the monster wrested from them.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar has some protection over summoned monsters, which can extend for a short distance. The pious templar is treated as if having a magic circle against evil spell cast upon her, except the area of effect is doubled (20 ft. radius instead of 10 ft. radius), the deflection and resistance bonuses are instead equal to half her class level, and the bonuses only apply against summoned monsters (attempts to resist mental control as per the spell apply to all creatures, as usual) while inside the area of effect or if the summoned monster uses a ranged effect.
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains the service of a loyal creature which is stronger than the norm for the race she has chosen. She may choose any one creature from those on the lists of summon monster I through summon monster IV, but the summoned creature must be at least within two steps of the pious templar’s alignment. The pious templar gains the ability to summon the creature as a standard action for a number of hours equal to her character level per day, and this duration can be divided between multiple uses. The creature is forever bound to the pious templar, and progresses according to the following table:

{TABLE=head]Character Level|Bonus HD|Deflection Adj.|Str/Con Adj.|Special
1st–4th|+2|+1|+0|Empathic link, share spells
5th–8th|+4|+2|+2|Devotion, speak with master
9th–12th|+6|+4|+4|Mettle/Evasion
13th–16th|+8|+6|+6|Multiattack
17th–20th|+10|+8|+8|Spell resistance[/TABLE]
Character Level: The pious templar’s effective character level (any class levels, plus racial Hit Dice)
Bonus HD: Extra Hit Dice as appropriate for the creature’s race, type or subtype, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the creature’s base attack and base save bonuses. Refer to the Monster Manual for purposes of determining how an increase in Hit Dice affects the creature, including base attack bonus, saving throws, size and abilities. A creature gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.
Deflection Adj.: The creature gains a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to the amount stated here. If the creature already has a deflection bonus to AC, it adds this bonus to the score
Str/Con Adj.: Add this value to the creature’s Strength and Constitution scores. This stacks with the Augment Summoning feat and any bonus to ability scores
Empathic Link (Su): The bind between the pious templar and her bound creature allows each of them to hold a potent link to each other for up to one mile. A pious templar can issue mental commands to the creature as a free action; if the creature’s intelligence is low, the creature will attempt to obey the command to the best of its ability (thus, it will understand a command to attack a certain creature, but it may not understand a command to attack with a specific ability for example). If the creature is reasonably intelligent (for example, an outsider), the creature will be capable of fully understanding the command if the creature understands the pious templar’s language; even then, a creature may not fully obey the given command. The pious templar and the creature may communicate their thoughts, but they can only relay emotional content.
Share Spells: At the pious templar’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect the creature. The creature must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.
If the spell or effect has duration other than instantaneous, it remains affecting the creature until it is dispelled, dismissed, or banished. Additionally, the pious templar may cast a spell with a target of "You" on her bound creature (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself.
A pious templar and her bound creature can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of its type.
Devotion (Ex): The creature gains a +4 morale bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects.
Speak with Master (Ex): If the creature does not speak, does not speak the pious templar’s known languages, or understand (but not speak) any of the pious templar’s languages, she may communicate with it verbally as if having a common language. Other creatures cannot understand this communication except for magical means. If the creature can speak and understand a pious templar’s language, it automatically understands all of her languages; equally, the pious templar understands any of the languages her bound creature can speak. This effect only works with her bound creature.
Mettle/Evasion (Ex): If the creature’s highest base saving throw is either Fortitude and/or Will, the creature gains the mettle ability. If the creature’s highest base saving throw is Reflex, then the creature gains the evasion ability. If the creature has all base saving throws high, or Reflex plus either Fortitude or Will, the creature gains either mettle or evasion treating the highest of the saves including modifiers. If the creature’s saves (with modifiers) are equal, choose either of the two options. Once chosen, it is permanent (even if the creature’s saving throws change somehow)
If a creature already has evasion or mettle, it acquires the opposite ability as well.
Multiattack: The creature is treated as if having the Multiattack feat if it three or more natural weapons. If the creature already has Multiattack or has less than three natural weapons, it gains an extra attack with its primary weapon, but at a -5.
Spell Resistance (Ex): The creature gains spell resistance equal to 10 plus the pious templar’s effective character level. If a creature already has spell resistance, it uses the better of the two.

For monsters of a list higher than summon monster I, the pious templar takes a penalty to its effective character level for purposes of determining the creature’s abilities: -2 for summon monster II, -4 for summon monster III, -6 for summon monster IV.

Time
Saving Grace: Reflex
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains the uncanny dodge class ability. If she already has uncanny dodge, she gains improved uncanny dodge, and her pious templar levels stack with levels in any class that grants improved uncanny dodge to determine how many levels of rogue a character must have to flank her.
Empowered Smite: Whenever a pious templar succeeds on a smite, the creature must make a Will saving throw or remain helpless for a number of rounds equal to half the pious templar’s class level. However, while the creature is helpless, it is treated as if under the effect of a temporal stasis spell.
Deity’s Grace: The pious templar blurs time within her, making her allies unusually swift and reactive. She grants a dodge bonus to Armor Class and Reflex saves equal to half her class level. As well, she grants a bonus on initiative checks to herself and her allies equal to her Charisma modifier (if any).
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar receives the greatest of benefits; escape from traps in time. She no longer ages (although when her time is up, she still dies of natural causes), her maximum age increases by 50%, and she is immune to time-related effects if these are harmful to the pious templar (such as temporal stasis and time stop). As well, for a number of rounds equal to her class level, she may treat herself as if under the effect of a haste spell as a swift action: if she sacrifices two rounds of this ability, she gains an extra move action this round; if she sacrifices three rounds of this ability, she gains one extra standard action that round, and if she sacrifices five rounds of this ability, she gains an extra full round action this round.

Trade

By the moment I dealt with the last few domains, I had no ideas for this one. Any ideas on how to tackle them?

Wealth: as the Greed domain, except as follows:
Deity’s Promise: The pious templar gains the ability to extort the benefit of a spell further, at the expense of duration. Whenever a pious templar casts a spell that provides a bonus to attack rolls, AC, saves, skill checks or ability scores, she may increase the benefit of this bonus by 2 (thus, a bull’s strength spell offers a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength), but the spell’s duration is reduced as if the spell’s caster level had been reduced by an amount equal to the spell’s level +2. A pious templar may not apply this benefit to a spell if the effective reduction to caster level for purposes of duration would cause the her to be unable to cast the spell (for example, if a 10th level pious templar casts a 4th level spell, she may not apply this benefit because the effective reduction to caster level for purposes of duration would be of 6, while her caster level would be 4; hence, she would be unable to cast the spell if her caster level was actually reduced ot that amount.)

Wrath
Saving Grace: Fortitude, Will
Deity’s Gift: The pious templar gains the ability to rage as a barbarian once per day. If the pious templar already has the ability to rage from class levels (such as those from barbarian), levels in pious templar stack with levels in that class to determine the daily uses of this ability instead.
Empowered Smite: When raging (either by means of the barbarian’s rage ability, the rage spell, or the deity’s gift class ability from the Wrath domain) or using a similar ability (such as frenzy), the pious templar’s extra damage from smite deals 1-1/2 times the damage it would otherwise deal. The extra damage from smite is instead doubled if using a two-handed weapon.
Deity’s Grace: When raging (either by means of the barbarian’s rage ability, the rage spell, or the deity’s gift class ability from the Wrath domain) or using a similar ability (such as frenzy), the bonuses provided by the effect increase by 1-1/2 times: for example, a barbarian’s rage would grant a +6 to Strength and Constitution and a +3 morale bonus to saves. If the pious templar already has the ability to rage from class levels (such as those from barbarian), levels in pious templar stack with levels in that class to determine the bonuses granted by this ability instead (such as when the barbarian gets greater rage or mighty rage). A pious templar that doesn’t have levels in a class that provides rage (and thus may only rage once per day by means of the deity’s gift class ability from the Wrath domain) gains an extra use of rage per day.
Deity’s Promise: When raging (either by means of the barbarian’s rage ability, the rage spell, or the deity’s gift class ability from the Wrath domain) or using a similar ability (such as frenzy), the pious templar retains its ability to cast spells from the pious templar spell list. Restrictions on spellcasting from other classes still applies.

[Elfstone]

I like them.

Minor formatting nitpick, there is no space between the lust and inquisition blocks. Also, perhaps making the metal domain powers more customizable? Different types of metals? Addamintine and the like?

[Burnheart]

This is very nice work, i'm useing your Blackguard in a game right now with the Valient Steed ACF and loving it but one just thing, it doesn't say if your mount appears with a saddle and such when you summon it or if you need to carry one around for it, i assume it does but i'd like a bit of clarity if thats alright.

[Cieyrin]

Hmm, Pious Templar is definitely much improved, though there are certainly faux pas here and there. Animal and Dragon's Grace with natural attacks is slightly strange, in that you have the choice of multiple attacks (claws) vs. a single of the others, so I'm not sure of the point there.

As mentioned, Inquisition got posted twice, before and in the middle of Lust. I also think it should be a tad more LGBT friendly in how it works but that's just me.

Craft and Creation have full CL boosting like Magic, unlike Illusion, Charm, Domination and the other Magic knock-offs, which I'm not sure was the intention.

I really like Dream and Metal, especially the support for Dreamtouched feats and whatnot. I do wonder how Metal would work with a Warforged Pious Templar, though...

There's probably a couple others that I missed or got bogged down on in my mind from making my way through the PrC and supporting materials, so I may have further comments later. Good work as usual. Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will. :smallsmile:

[T.G. Oskar]

Hmm, Pious Templar is definitely much improved, though there are certainly faux pas here and there. Animal and Dragon's Grace with natural attacks is slightly strange, in that you have the choice of multiple attacks (claws) vs. a single of the others, so I'm not sure of the point there.

It's probably the total damage of the weapon compared to the others. Bites and tails should be usually more powerful than claws, as usual (bite and tail usually are one or two steps ahead of claws). The idea is that you can attack with two claws but you need your hands free, in comparison with a bite or a tail slam attack which you can use as part of a full attack action with manufactured weapons (if my memory recalls correctly), although you might need Multiattack to lessen the penalty; if not, the idea is that you could use one claw, one bite or one tail slap as part of a full attack routine (an exception to the rule, hence invoking the "specific trumps general"). I'll probably lower the claw damage by one step to compensate, or make the bite and tail slap attacks deal 1d8 while the claws remain 1d6.


As mentioned, Inquisition got posted twice, before and in the middle of Lust. I also think it should be a tad more LGBT friendly in how it works but that's just me.

Not sure how that happened, quite probably I highlighted Deity's Promise for the Lust domain and pasted the Inquisition domain info once again.

As for the Lust domain's Promise, it's pretty straightforward so as to indicate the base effect: creatures of the opposite sex are affected, which is a bit more "kosher" to explain. Without going into deeper conversation, you could rule that it's not based on biological sex, but on gender identity or sexual orientation, which should make it friendlier to characters with a LGBT theme. That's as much as I'd like to speak without having the thread closed without posting the remaining PrCs and whatever I decide to add to the thread (it's my biggest thus far!)


Craft and Creation have full CL boosting like Magic, unlike Illusion, Charm, Domination and the other Magic knock-offs, which I'm not sure was the intention.

I'll have to read that pretty closely. I still have half the domains unposted (by the moment I write the post, anyways) and my books are currently unavailable (since I'm going to play in a few hours after this post is made). Perhaps some aid could be placed, since the idea is that Magic replaces "1/2 cleric level" with "Pious Templar level + divine spellcasting class level", so a Pious Templar of Magic with levels in Paladin would have the sum of both classes as effective arcane spellcasting levels for this purpose (thus, it could use wands or scrolls as a wizard or sorcerer of its class level, so as long as it doesn't multiclass into another class or PrC).


I really like Dream and Metal, especially the support for Dreamtouched feats and whatnot. I do wonder how Metal would work with a Warforged Pious Templar, though...

Well, I'm a sucker for poorly-supported material (I mean, I use the ki mechanics A LOT), so it's natural to work with Dreamtouched feats as it really fits (no pun intended) the feel of the class. In fact, it also works well with the Oneiromancy feats from Heroes of Horror, so I tackled quite a lot of dream-related feats. It would be wonderful for a Kalashtar or Inspired Pious Templar.

As for Warforged and the Metal domain...hmm, interesting conundrum. Feels like an ACF is in order! It could be a tad abusive, though. Will work on it once I post the remaining domains.

[T.G. Oskar]

So, for the first time in my life, I've managed to find a group (even if only temporary) that has experience enough to allow me to use my playtest. Amongst a few other things, this has managed me to gain the ability to playtest the Project Heretica Paladin from low levels.

The results were as follows:
Beginning as a 3rd level DMPC, the playtest Paladin has fought in a few battles. These have been, in succession: 4 Inspired Lurks, 3 Dolgrims that tried to bomb a lightning rail down, a group composed of a 4th level Shifter Ranger (using the Retooled Ranger), two 2nd level Experts/2nd level Rangers (using the Retooled Ranger as well) and two brown bears (yes, you heard that right), and a group comprised of two 3rd level Fighters, two 3rd level Rangers and one 3rd level Warblade. So in total, five battles.

The playtest Paladin has the following stats:
Starting level: 3rd, current level 4th
Starting HP: 31, current HP 40
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 15 (using elite array)
Weaponry: Masterwork battleaxe, 5 javelins
Armor: +1 Full Plate (+9 AC), Tower Shield (+4, +5 with Shield Specialization)
Feats: Least Mark of Sentinel (protection from arrows), Shield Specialization, Shieldmate (from Miniatures Handbook), plus Diehard as a Paladin bonus feat.
Skills: Heal +7, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +8, Knowledge (religion) +8, Sense Motive +7
Abilities: Smite Evil (stunning, Will DC 12), Divine Aura (devotion, +2 morale bonus to AC and Reflex saves, take 4 points of damage with each melee attack)
Spells: 0--Cure Minor Wounds, Guidance, Resistance

He travels with a two-man party consisting of:
1) A Kender Bard whom started at 4th level (yes, a kender) which is moderately optimized. He has Hide checks off the roof, grants a +3 with his Inspire Courage (not Dragonfire Inspiration, tho), and has reasonable spells such as Alter Self, Grease and Glitterdust (which he uses quite often). He uses a special weapon that works as a melee weapon (2d4 points of damage), a ranged weapon (1d4) and an instrument, which appears in a 3rd party sourcebook for Kenders.

2) A Half-Giant Fighter starting at 4th level. He's quite the damage dealer, using a large Fullblade (dealing at least 3d8 points of damage), alongside a large Strength bonus (20 when starting, using 32 pb), Power Attack, and the odd Weapon Focus feat. He can dish a respectable 3d8+8 by himself, with a +6 bonus when using Power Attack. He's also quite fond of using Noxious Smokesticks, Alchemists' Fires and Oils...

So, all battles, in order:
1) The Fighter, being...well, the damage dealer, got off to a nice start with one-hitting most of the group (at least two of them). The Paladin started with a decent charge that dealt some low damage, then at his second turn he defeated one of the group by using his smite (and with the failed save, the enemy would have been stunned for 1 round). He finished a second enemy using his Javelin.

2) The Dolgrims tried their very best to affect the Fighter (which is, once again, the damage dealer of the group) but their tentacle attacks and grappling attempts were thwarted by the Paladin's aura. They tried their darndest to deal with the Paladin as well, to no avail; the song from the bard and the sheer damage potential of the Paladin saved the day, but it was his aura which saved them from a few hits.

3) The group was more of a challenge, if only because of the bears being brown bears (+11 to attack rolls was quite scary). The Expert/Ranger duo were specialized in capture, so they had free Improved Trip and they used it quite a lot with Whips. They managed to drop the Paladin at least once (and the Bard, which used Alter Self to morph into a Crucian for 26 AC which was further pumped by the Paladin's aura). A bear held the Fighter for the best part of the battle, and was downed despite the Paladin's aura; on the other hand, even after surviving three hits from the bear, the Paladin was still standing. He managed to, alongside a well-timed combination of a Grease spell alongside a noxious smokestick against one of the bears, and timely intervention by a friendly group of crossbowmen, the group got the upper hand, though it was quite close to a TPK. The Paladin had about 4 HP remaining afterwards, so it HURT. He also landed one smite (after failing his first attempt), so he got someone stunned (finally!!) for 1 round.

4) Quite the contrary, the other group was a joke. The Paladin's very decent AC bonus and aura prevented the other group from attacking, which is reasonable considering they were 3rd level characters. The Warblade was the last to fall, after failing a Disarming Strike in order to disarm the Half-Giant and then pushed into taking an attack of opportunity from the Paladin into submission (but not before taking a 30-something hit from the Fighter).

So, from this, I can figure that it's not better OR worse than the average Paladin by that level, even missing some key traits such as immunity to fear or disease, Cha to saves or even lay on hands. The aura was an immense benefit which made some almost-hits into misses, coupled with the Shieldmate +2 AC bonus whenever they were in range. Spellcasting was done only once (a Guidance spell to aid the Fighter), and most of its use was out of battle where the spell was improved by a Healing Hymn from the Bard (so a Cure Minor Wounds healed 9 points of damage, which is pretty much what you'd get from Lay on Hands by that level). He finally got to 4th level, so he finally gets Turn Undead and 1st level spells (at his full CL).

I must admit, there are other things that I playtested as well, which is why you see something like Shieldmate on the Paladin and Weapon Focus (fullblade) on the Fighter. The Paladin is not the only thing I'm playtesting, but based on the results, the group can withstand battles of their CR or one lower (comprised of at least 5 people) with surprising ease. Amongst the changes:
Shieldmate has a 10 ft. range, and adds at least 2 points of the user's shield bonus to AC. That increases later. Thus, whenever they were at 10 ft., they got a +4 bonus to their AC because of the Shieldmate/Aura of Devotion synergy.
There are some changes related to weapons. The Paladin could use his strength (instead of his Dexterity) on attack rolls when using thrown weapons, so he attacked with the same bonus whether he used his battleaxe or his javelin.
Disarm, Trip and Feint were used a bit more, and are very similar to Pathfinder's versions of the maneuvers (BAB + Strength OR Dexterity, no CMD but opposed attack rolls instead, Feint is BAB + Str OR Dex vs. Sense Motive roll). This allowed the Paladin to be tripped (with a BAB of +3, plus the Str modifier, Imp. Trip bonus AND whip, they got a solid +11 to trip anyone).
Shield Specialization is radically different, in that it provides more than a +1 to AC. Part of what offers is damage reduction, which was very useful. One of the reasons why the Paladin survived was because of this. I might need to nerf the bonus, though, because DR 4/- at 3rd level is apparently too much.
Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are feats that increase in potential as levels progress, with the first such increment at 6th level. It also grants the bonus to a wide variety of weapons based on groups (mostly those from Unearthed Arcana), so the benefit is pretty wide. The Paladin may eventually gain the same benefit.
Combat Expertise works exactly like Power Attack, and the earlier bonus is what fighting defensively is now. With a BAB of +3, the Bard could easily boost his AC (alongside his Crucian NA bonus) to 31, effectively having more AC than the Paladin OR the Fighter. Since the Fighter also uses heavy armor (a full plate as well, though not magical), the Paladin and the Fighter had the same AC, so basically it was a matter of defining whom to hit, and both had good reasons why to be hit (high HP) and why not (high damage or DR)
All characters gain 2 points to their ability scores every four levels (instead of one), which they can split between two scores or apply directly to one. The Bard now has a Dex of 16, the Fighter has a whopping 22 STR, and the Paladin raised his Strength and Charisma to 14 and 16, respectively (thus increasing damage, smite evil attack bonus AND save DC, spell slots and spell save DC whenever it applies).

The Paladin is now 4th level, so he can apply Turn Undead now (and apply FOR Divine feats) and cast 1st level spells (which I've yet to pick, albeit Protection from Evil is definitely one of the filled spots). So far, he collaborates a lot within the group, which is something I wanted to work with, and it provided a lot of chances to playtest stuff. Most notably, it allowed me to playtest another class (the Retooled Ranger), which was so good that the Bard decided to dip into the class to fit his actual intention for the character (using darts and other such weapons which could be hidden within equipment, plus he wants a frickin' animal so...). All in all, I found some of my homebrew to be rather balanced so far (except for a few things, namely Shield Specialization being quite too good and probably deserving a nerf), and most of the stuff that's overtly powerful was already present (such as the Half-Giant Fighter using a Large Fullblade and dealing oodles of damage), so the Paladin's damage potential was overshadowed by things that actually exist within game and not part of my 'brew specifically.

So, comments on the results? I wish to see the Paladin from level 6th onwards, because that's the moment when Wizards start to shine and I want to see how the Paladin responds to that (and specifically, to see Improved Smite and Divine Punishment in action).

[Cieyrin]

Nice to see you getting some firsthand playtest data. Looks like you'll need some tweaking yet but hey, that's what you were doing it for. Also, look forward to feat retoolings. :smallsmile:

Also, Kender Bard? Sweet! I don't suppose the 3rd party supplement was the Kencyclopedia and s/he was using a hachak? :smallwink:

[T.G. Oskar]

Also, Kender Bard? Sweet! I don't suppose the 3rd party supplement was the Kencyclopedia and s/he was using a hachak? :smallwink:

Sithak (which means yes, using the Kencyclopedia). And it's a he. Actually, he managed to introduce the sithak to the world of Eberron, from which he came in an odd, extremely odd (I'd dare say plane-spanning odd) manner. Let's just say the Age of Dreams is pretty close on Eberron, and that it relates to one specific moment in Silvanesti history.

Can you imagine a 40-something old man that perfectly captures the essence of what a kender is? I mean, just as much as a 2-year (close to 3-year) old toddler would, but with the actual smarts for it.

And yes, some tweaking is to be done, but I find the division between Strength (for smite DC), Constitution (for aura) and Charisma (for the rest) is actually balanced enough. I went a bit conservative with the character since I don't want him to outshine the party (else I'd have scavenged for proper feats at 1st level, not to mention using 32-point buy which would have net +3 on at least 3 stats, with a +4 increase on one of them at 4th).

Finally, regarding the feat revisions...ever noticed how much I tend to use the "effective Fighter level" term on most melee-inclined retoolings?

[T.G. Oskar]

Another day, another poke at retooled material playtesting!

Today the (small) group comprised of the Bard/Retooled Ranger and the Half-Giant Fighter with the Dragonslayer (yes, that one, but still not awakened ;); it'll be a weapon of legacy, BTW), alongside the DMPC Paladin meeting yet another DMPC, this time one based on the PC of a player whom no longer plays with the group. Since that PC was playing a Warmage, it was the perfect time to test the Warmage retooling, so I made a quick raise to level 4.

We only had two fights today, consisting of a fight with five 4th level retooled Lurk(er)s (oh snap!) which were dispatched easily but managed to land a few debuffs (Disable, Entangling Ectoplasm). Being Inspired, I expect them to become recurring enemies during this small campaign, which is excellent for my needs since it will playtest something that hasn't been released yet. So far, they did well with minimal effort, standing one hit or two from the half-giant Fighter (which deals about 3d8+12 points of damage per blow without Power Attack; curse that Large fullblade!!!) and somewhat disabling the Paladin (not, because of Diehard!).

The second battle was against a 6th level Warmage and three 6th level Fighters. The Paladin worked rather well this time, stopping a charge against the warmage lady dead in its tracks with a well-timed smite (as an attack of opportunity, actually). Since a stunning smite causes daze on a successful save, the fact that he could be stopped using that is kind of a dream come true for a tank; he can actually pull off some degree of control! With two smites per day at 5th level, that means he could easily stop two people for at least 1 round while the others lay the smack down. In other terms, I finally remembered to provide the struck enemies with the damage redirect, which meant a pretty dangerous hit from one of the enemies (18 damage) was reduced slightly. Using Aid on the warmage while at that worked, since it provided her with a decent 7 temporary hit points that soaked even more damage.

So, lessons today?
The Paladin's smite should, and for all purposes is, excellent to serve as a deterrent when making attacks of opportunity. I may need to boost blinding and resounding to keep on board, since that makes stunning all the more powerful.
Shieldmate at 10 ft. + aura of Devotion makes all allies even more resilient. That +4 to AC at 10 feet can be devastating, making for interesting flanking set-ups if done correctly.
Aid as a 1st level spell is magnificent. Certainly, used as a cleric might not be so useful, but as a Paladin it adds the extra oomph! you're looking for.
Soaking damage (so far 4 points per round) doesn't dent the Paladin that much, but it can be a lifesaver. It's the difference, sort of, between being on 2/3 HP and 1/2 HP.

Again: comments? Questions? You might realize that elite array used to playtest a class might deliver some low numbers; I'd be interested in seeing a playtest with 28 or 32 point buy, which should be more interesting, but so far the Paladin using an unconventional weapon (battle axe) is serviceable, yet not overwhelming.

He also got to level 5, and he has improved smiting along the way. So...next few levels should be interesting. Having (extraofficially) the first effective Fighter level means some of his feats might work differently, based on the feat retools.

News on the Warmage playtest on the proper thread.

[Eurus]

I'm not sure if I quite like the idea of a no-save-just-suck effect as early as level 1 (and at level 5 it becomes "lose" rather than "suck")...

At higher levels, I can understand that effects like that are not uncommon. Enervate, Fleshshiver, the Holy Word line... I personally dislike the latter two as an example of bad game design where you require really pretty niche defenses just to not immediately lose to an effect, but I can accept that there may be differences of opinion there.

But I feel like this is too early, for what it is. Firstly, I would almost never use any other smite effect; Stunning at 1st, Improved Stunning at 5th, every time. Resounding and Blinding have entertaining debuffs, but even a creature who fails their save against one of those is still able to survive and continue fighting, or at least run away for the moment.

Being stunned for a single round means that it's entirely possible (even likely, if the party is paying attention and makes sure to be close enough) that the unfortunate victim finds himself the victim of a coup-de-gras or two by the time he wakes up. Being dazed is less directly lethal, but still leaves the problem of wrecking action economy when one attack from one PC is capable of shutting down a single enemy -- it's already difficult to design challenging encounters that don't involve great numbers of mooks, this exacerbates that problem.

When you get to level 5, this becomes a larger problem, since an enemy who succeeds on their save is still vulnerable to the nearly-guaranteed kill that comes with being considered helpless, but I'd say it's an even worse issue at level six. That's when the duration bumps up to two rounds. Suddenly you can hit an enemy, stun them, and then execute them next round even by yourself -- and the only way they can avoid this is with either massively boosted AC, or stun immunity. Again, I think that "you must have this immunity to survive" is not exactly fun. As for the matter of AC, I feel like any enemy with high enough armor to have a good chance of avoiding the first attack from a full-BAB character with access to plenty of buffs who also gets to add 3-5 to the attack from Charisma is probably going to simply be too hard for anyone in the party to hit.

It's possible that I'm overthinking this, in some way. But a low-level character with the ability to eliminate an enemy from a fight altogether with one attack roll (from a character who is quite good at attack rolls anyway) seems like an issue.

I did look at the playtest, where it seemed like that wasn't too much of a problem. I suspect that use of the elite array played at least some part here, since 13 strength is really quite low for a physical combatant and charisma isn't too much higher -- a paladin with a 16 strength and 14 charisma would attack at +7 and smite for an extra +2, pretty good odds with slightly improved stats.

Since I don't like to offer critique without also volunteering solutions (hopefully not being too presumptuous), one possibility might be to make it so that a target who successfully saves is only dazed for one round even if it's an improved smite. That's still an excellent deterrent and honestly pretty scary, but at least it's not a flat-out fight ender. The devastating smite effect could increase this to a 1-round stun on a successful save, since freedom of movement and stun immunity are more common by then.

Honestly though, part of me feels like stunning simply shouldn't be a basic smite, perhaps limited to paladins of 5th level or higher automatically just because it stands out from the crowd so much. Like I said, it's the one smite that actually knocks out its victim rather than simply weakening them.

Really, I like the rest of the class at a glance. But that stun, it draws my gaze like a black hole and I can't look away. A player is asking to use this class in a game I plan to DM (a modified version of Age of Worms, I'll let you know how it goes if it takes off), but I feel like I would need a good argument for that stun first.


EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention. Battle Blessing = probably not compatible with this version of the paladin. I love that feat for giving normal paladins a little bit of catch-up with the big boys in the form of swift action buff spells, but I shiver to think of what this guy would do with it.

[Cieyrin]

Stunned (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned) is not helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless). You can't coup a stunned target.

While you can paralyze at 5th, Clerics and Bards have had Hold Person since 3rd and 4th level, so couping off of paralysis isn't anything new. Yeah, they have to make a save but so does the smite. I don't think Stunning Smite is gonna make the casters green with envy any time soon.

[Eurus]

Stunned (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned) is not helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless). You can't coup a stunned target.

While you can paralyze at 5th, Clerics and Bards have had Hold Person since 3rd and 4th level, so couping off of paralysis isn't anything new. Yeah, they have to make a save but so does the smite. I don't think Stunning Smite is gonna make the casters green with envy any time soon.

Well I'll be. I don't know how I got mistaken on that, I could have sworn stunning made the target helpless -- I always thought that was the major perk of stun vs. daze.

The point that I was trying to make is that the save doesn't even matter that much. Even if the target succeeds on their save, they're still disabled. Maybe they tough it out a round, and are fine, but two or three rounds is still almost certainly enough to remove them from the equation.

[Cieyrin]

I always thought that was the major perk of stun vs. daze.

The major perk is they lose Dex, suck an additional -2 against AC and (the thing most people forget) they drop what they're holding. Disarm? Feh, let me knock him one to the head, he'll let go. :smallamused:


The point that I was trying to make is that the save doesn't even matter that much. Even if the target succeeds on their save, they're still disabled. Maybe they tough it out a round, and are fine, but two or three rounds is still almost certainly enough to remove them from the equation.

It's still plenty powerful, yes, but there's plenty of other ways to disable that hits more than one guy (Glitterdust? Slow? Solid Fog? :smallwink:).

[T.G. Oskar]

Eurus, while you have a point regarding how Stunning Smite is apparently more powerful than the rest, I do have to concede that the rider effect is not much compared to, well, spellcasting.

Consider, for example, the Stunning Fist feat (which is meant to be used by a monk). Technically, Stunning Smite is effectively an attack with extra damage that uses the Paladin's strength to cause smite much as the Stunning Fist uses the Monk's wisdom (since they're probably the few that might get it early on and for free), but it has both an AC component and a save component; the immunity component is ignored (Undead and Constructs shouldn't be affected, yet they do; that's the point). That, and the daze on a successful save which isn't really bad.

Ideally, both Blinding Smite and Stunning Smite work to hinder melee combatants, with Blinding reducing their effectiveness in combat while Stunning temporarily takes them out. If blinding had an effect where you remained blind nonetheless for 1 round, then Blinding would be pretty useful, but as it stands Stunning is king. Resounding should have its utility as an AoE special attack, but it doesn't become AoE proper until 5th level. So, I can understand the concern since there's no reason why NOT to take any other smite unless you want to be a good charger (in which you take Charging Smite) or want to use ranged weapons with your smite (in which you take Ranged Smite alongside Stunning Smite and you smack them from the distance).

For what it's worth, Stunning Smite is very effective on what a tank should do: preventing enemies from reaching the casters. Blinding does as well, but at a lesser degree; as Eurus mentions, at least the character can move. Resounding does roughly the opposite; if the enemy falls prone, then it wastes a move action to stand up, so it effectively loses part of its turn unless it has a way to stand up as a swift action or faster. I *was* thinking about making daze (and eventual stun) a 1-round effect, since you effectively resisted the smite; the idea was basically to stun an enemy at an increased interval based on paladin level, but the "lose" condition would be a much reduced effect (Blinding has a similar conception, but strengthened). Since the base effect can be achieved pretty easily AND it has two limiting factors (it has to hit, and then it has to fail the save for the worse effect), it's not something I'd remove. I DO plan, though, to make Stun based on Fortitude and Blind based on Will in order to play with the weaknesses of the intended creatures (Blind for melee, Stun for casters).

Note: the 2nd Tier of Stunning Smite IS rather deadly, but nothing like Hold Person (the Paladin can paralyze the creature for up to 5 rounds at 20th level), while Hold Person can do it for more rounds AND at a distance, and by level 9 or so the effect applies to just about anyone with a slightly better save, but by that level melee already needs something nice.

Thus, having said this, and based on the playtest data, I figure that Stunning Smite could have a clarification, but still remain as-is. A successful save's effect only lasts for 1 round, while the other lasts for the established rounds. This allows Stunning Smite to be used as a deterrent for enemy movement (the actual intention, akin to Combat Reflexes + Stand Still + reach weapon) but make the successful save a lot more interesting. As well, I might consider shifting Fortitude and Will to make Blinding a much more interesting option for anti-melee deterrent (since blindness also effectively takes the enemy out of combat). In simpler terms:

Blinding: Will save or blinded for 1 round/5 paladin levels (round up), dazzle on successful save
Tier 2: Will save or perma-blinded; blinded for 1 round/5 paladin levels on successful save (comparable to Blindness spell; contrast Fear spell)
Stunning: Fortitude save or stunned for 1 round/5 paladin levels (round up), daze for 1 round on successful save
Tier 2: Fortitude save or paralyzed for 1 round/5 paladin levels (round up); stunned for 1 round on successful save (comparable to Hold Person; contrast Fear spell)

Since the Paladin won't have too many smites and they only affect one creature (unlike, say, Sound Burst which has a chance of affecting creatures on area, or similar spells), it's likely that you'll see it on many encounters but not as a pure lockdown (one that might be successful, though, to handle a strong enemy OR setting up terrain for a stronger attacker to finish the enemy in one hit). As Cieyrin says, it won't make casters green with envy since Grease does more than the smite would from level 1 (on an area and with the Balance check that threatens to slip the enemy and hold its movement), then Web/Glitterdust (which affects much more people). It won't also affect martial adepts, since Warblades will easily pound enemies with Sapphire Nightmare Blade/Mountain Hammer alongside Punishing Stance, Swordsages will probably use Burning Blade and/or Clinging Shadow Strike, Mountain Hammer (as well) and eventually Flashing Sun, Rabid Wolf Strike, Drain Vitality, Emerald Razor and the Assassin's Stance; Crusaders will set up for Thicket of Blades, Foehammer, Mountain Hammer (as well!), Battle Leader's Charge, Tactical Strike... So, if it doesn't affect either martial adepts OR spellcasters (and not even classical warriors, since the Fighter and the Barbarian do rather well with two-handed weapons applying Power Attack while the Paladin does the hard work of piddling the AC), it shouldn't be cause for concern (and daze doesn't reduce the enemy's AC, so...) It DOES introduce, however, an element currently missing on the normal paladin which is the lack of disabling options.

As a final point: any non-evil creature is unaffected, so the Paladin definitely could use a better weapon. It's not like the Paladin is the beat-all-end-all of martial characters now, since being merely Neutral OR Good (animals, for example, cannot be smitten, nor constructs for that regard unless you have a way to decouple the smite from the alignment). So it's rather easy to resist, actually.

[NineThePuma]

Charging Smite is stilled locked into hitting Evil.


Out of curiosity, if I wanted to replace spell casting, which of the Main 3 initiators would you recommend having your Divine Champions emulate (in terms of maneuvers known/readied/stances and refreshing mechanic), and what disciplines (of the core 9) would you recommend each having?

[T.G. Oskar]

Charging Smite is stilled locked into hitting Evil.

Not anymore. Thanks for the constant reminder, tho. It was really a change of about three words or something; it should be fixed now.


Out of curiosity, if I wanted to replace spell casting, which of the Main 3 initiators would you recommend having your Divine Champions emulate (in terms of maneuvers known/readied/stances and refreshing mechanic), and what disciplines (of the core 9) would you recommend each having?

None.

It's very simple; if I were to add martial maneuvers, the retooled Paladin would take the Crusader and make it worthless. I already oppose that idea on the inverse (the Crusader flat replacing the Paladin), so it makes little sense that I support that type of exchange. Specifically on spellcasting, which I place (alongside the smite, the mount, and now the auras) as what differs a Paladin from the Crusader.

Having said that, there's an attempt to add something that added Paladins the flavor of Crusaders through ACFs. It was meant to replace the original, but it shouldn't be so difficult to properly replace. Check under "Complete Martial" and "Alternate Class Features" for the exchanges, which essentially replace the smite AND the mount; in order to make them Project Heretica compatible, the stances replace Standing Before Adversity and the maneuvers replace the smite tiers.

And now, for something completely different...

--



THE KNIGHT HOSPITALLER

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff312/Osky-kun/knight-1.jpg?t=1310900450
Image unknown. Original at the Firefighter and Paramedic Stories blog (http://firefighterparamedicstories.blogspot.com/2010/06/maltese-cross.html).

"Pro Fide, Pro Utilitate Hominum" (For the Faithful, and for Service of Men) - Former motto of the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St. John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta, the real life order of Knights Hospitaller.

Requirements
To qualify to become a knight hospitaller, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any good, any non-chaotic
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Diplomacy 4 ranks, Heal 8 ranks
Feats: Self-Sufficient
Special: Must be able to cast one conjuration (healing) divine spell, or use a Devoted Spirit maneuver that restores hit point damage.

Yes, Self-Sufficient. Any problem with that?

Wh...you mean it sucks? I had the distinctive impression that it was rather awesome, granting a +1 bonus on the skill plus 1 for every five ranks on the skill starting from the first four, so by 16th level you'd have a +5 bonus, PLUS you'd gain a bonus on hit points healed while resting...

Wait, that's Survivalist, not Self-Sufficient. And that's not yet released... Oh well, feats coming soon!

In any case, the requirements are meant to be a bit harsh, but fair. The Knight Hospitaller is essentially a revamped Hospitaler PrC, which means it needs some focus on healing. The ranks are easy to achieve and so does the BAB and special requirement, so it needed something that few people would dare to take as a "balance". Hence, Self-Sufficient. Or Survivalist.

Do note that you can enter just by taking Martial Study, so it's open to other classes than Paladins or Crusaders.

Class Skills
The knight hospitaller’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Another small list? What's wrong with you, homebrewer!?

Well, it's also a PrC that has the vanilla Paladin skill list, so no need for Spellcraft or Bluff or anything peculiar.

{TABLE=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells per Day
1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Bonus domain (Healing), lay on hands, martial devotion|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Hospitaller’s touch, spontaneous spellcasting (Healing domain)|-
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Bonus feat, devotion of the spirit, hospitaller’s blessing|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Greater lay on hands, hospitaller’s ward (temporary hit points)|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Hospitaller’s resolve (self), lay off afflictions|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Bonus feat, devotion of the spirit, hospitaller’s sacrifice|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Hospitaller’s ward (deflection bonus to AC)|+1 of existing spellcasting ability
8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Hospitaller’s resolve (close), quickened lay on hands|+1 of existing spellcasting ability
9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Bonus feat, extend the healing|+1 of existing spellcasting ability
10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Empowered lay on hands|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability[/TABLE]

I'm sure you're all asking what the heck does that odd "-" has to do with the spellcasting progression. 1st level gets spellcasting progression, so it's kinda odd to lack the second.

There's really good reasons for that. Notice that they get access to a domain right at that moment. Specifically, the Healing domain. Since only divine spellcasters would have an advantage related to that, it would be pretty silly to give it to non-spellcasters, no?

Point is, non-spellcasters get a bonus; they can use it a few times per day, so they get some healing. Paladins and Rangers get a massive boost as they can cast those spells with their spell slots and the spells they can't cast as spell-like abilities. So they get a great use out of it. That, combined with the full BAB they get makes divine spellcasters lose one spellcasting level.

Like that will hurt them. Heck, even Favored Souls will get 9th level spells.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the knight hospitaller.
Weapon Proficiency: A knight hospitaller gains proficiency with all martial weapons if it didn’t had already.

Bonus Domain (Healing): A knight hospitaller gains the Healing domain as a bonus domain. He may gain the domain’s granted power benefit and prepare or cast spells from the domain, as usual. See the rules for extra domains in Complete Divine, page 31 for more information. If the knight hospitaller does not cast spells, he may still apply the domain granted power benefit to spells he casts spontaneously (see the spontaneous spellcasting ability, below). If the knight hospitaller uses Devoted Spirit maneuvers, he gains a special application of the domain’s granted power benefit; he may treat his initiator level as one level higher for purposes of Devoted Spirit strikes that restore hit points based on initiator level.

Oops, forgot to mention they get the domain spell one level earlier. Silly me.

The truth is, of course, that 2nd level is when knights hospitaller (the proper plural, IIRC) get the ability to cast those spells spontaneously. You know, much like what clerics already get. However, while that happens with the first few spells of that level, the latter ones are still rather strong (I mean, the ability to cast Mass Heal spontaneously!?). In order to make a 2 level dip hurtful, that level nixes its spellcasting ability, so they delay their progression in order to gain the ability to spontaneously cast Healing domain spells.

There's little reason why NOT to dunk into the PrC, but YMMV.

Spells per Day: At every level except 2nd, a knight hospitaller gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a knight hospitaller, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

If the knight hospitaller has no levels in a divine spellcasting class, he gains no benefit. If the knight hospitaller’s spellcaster levels are from paladin or ranger, the caster level for those spells is equal to his knight hospitaller class levels plus half their paladin or ranger levels (including 2nd level, unlike other divine spellcasters).

The last note, as usual, is for vanilla Paladins and Rangers that get "half" spellcasting (half CL, half levels, one-eighth effectiveness). They get a slight bonus in that the class progresses their caster level at a 1:1 ratio. If you're using the Project Heretica PBAJ classes, though, disregard this note.

Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 1st level, a knight hospitaller with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (his own or those of others) by touch. Treat this as the Paladin's class ability, except the effective Paladin level for purposes of this ability is equal to the sum of levels in both this class and the Paladin class.

This requires a deeper explanation, if you're using it alongside Project Heretica.

If you were using the vanilla Paladin, you basically would get paladin level x Charisma modifier on the pool, and most of the abilities might make sense. The Project Heretica Paladin gets the ability four levels later, but the effect is a rechargeable pool of healing rather than a static pool of healing; thus, some of the abilities might be a tad too powerful (or pointless). Some of the abilities may be off-limits if you use the Project Heretica Paladin (even if only as an option, or explicitly mentioning you use the upgrade to lay on hands), which will be mentioned on spoilers and as an endnote.

As for Justiciar, you'd instead stack your levels in Knight Hospitaller and Justiciar for their Submission ability. And, now that I noticed something...

By the way: the Dragon Shaman, the Retooled Healer and the Monk (both kosher and Retooled) have similar abilities. The lay on hands benefit of stacking class levels applies to them as well (thus, a Dragon Shaman and a Healer retain their Touch of Vitality and Healing Hands benefits), and the monk gets to heal by touch (using their Wholeness of Body class ability) alongside the specific benefit (but using Wisdom instead of Charisma).

Martial Devotion: Levels in knight hospitaller stack with levels in any one martial adept class to determine his initiator level. To gain the benefit of this ability, the knight hospitaller must know at least one Devoted Spirit maneuver (by means of the crusader class, or through the Martial Study feat) as well as having levels in one martial adept class. You may only progress initiator level or spellcasting, but not both.

Thought I'd make it that easy, no?

Since the idea is that Crusaders could become Knights Hospitaller much like Clerics or Paladins (roughly the same idea with the Defender of Sealtiel), Crusaders get a slight nifty bonus, but no actual progression. Thus, you can use Martial Study to gain new powers as if you had levels in Crusader or Warblade or Swordsage, but not gain spellcasting as well. And, since Crusader has a few maneuvers that depend on initiator level (the healing strike maneuvers, Leading the Charge, Tactics of the Wolf), they get some serious benefit to it.

Hospitaller’s Touch (Su): At 2nd level, a knight hospitaller may use his lay on hands ability to heal from a distance. He may use his lay on hands ability at a range of up to 30 ft.; in the case of using lay on hands to attack undead creatures, he must make a ranged touch attack in order to affect the creature.

This is a rather nice benefit towards those whom use Lay on Hands; they can use it on range now. Permanently. Even on enemies. Note this also applies to Submission if you have it, so that's a very nice gift; even if only within 30 ft., that means you can deliver some serious healing while standing at a proper distance.

Spontaneous Spellcasting (Healing) (Sp): The task of a knight hospitaller is that of a healer, even though it wears heavy armor and wields weapons of war. A knight hospitaller has the gift of healing by touch, but there are times where he must unleash a burst of healing at a moment’s notice. The investiture as a knight hospitaller grants him the ability to cast spells from the Healing domain as if they were spells on his own list, but even those devoid of spellcasting ability are granted the use of abilities that resemble these spells.

At 2nd level, a knight hospitaller may “lose” any prepared spell (or may expend a spell slot) and cast a spell from the Healing domain of the same level or lower. If the knight hospitaller already had an ability to spontaneously cast cure spells (such as that from a cleric), he replaces the ability with this one instead.

If the knight hospitaller does not know how to cast divine spells, he may instead use each of the spells granted by the Healing domain once per day as spell-like abilities. He does not immediately gain access to all the spells: instead, the maximum spell level he has access to at any moment is equal to half his character level (rounded down), plus 1. Thus, a 5th level crusader/2nd level knight hospitaller (and thus, a 7th level character) may use cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure serious wounds and cure critical wounds once per day. The caster level for these spell-like abilities is equal to half his character level, even if the caster level wouldn’t normally allow the knight hospitaller to cast the spell (thus, the same 5th level crusader/2nd level knight hospitaller would have a caster level for all of his acquired spell-like abilities of 3rd, and he may use his CL 3rd to cast cure serious wounds and cure critical wounds even if normally he wouldn’t be allowed, healing 3d8/4d8 + 3 points of damage).

In the case of paladins and rangers whom become knights hospitaller, they may spontaneously cast spells from the Healing domain by using their own prepared spells, but they are also treated as if they didn’t have divine spellcasting ability for the purpose of determining which spells from the Healing domain they may use as spell-like abilities; however, the caster level for said spells is equal to their own caster level. At the moment they gain access to a new spell level, they lose the spell-like ability they had acquired for that specific spell level but they gain the benefit of spontaneous spellcasting, as usual. For example, a 5th level paladin/8th level knight hospitaller may cast up to 3rd level paladin spells. He may “lose” a 1st, 2nd or 3rd level spell slot and cast either cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds or cure serious wounds in their stead, and he may cast cure critical wounds, mass cure light wounds, heal and regenerate once per day, with a caster level for those spells of 12th (even if that would normally impede casting the heal or regenerate spells). If he then gains two more levels of knight hospitaller and becomes a 5th level paladin/10th level knight hospitaller, he becomes capable of casting 4th level spells (if he has enough Wisdom to cast a 4th level spell); thus, he loses the ability to cast cure critical wounds as a spell-like ability, but he may spontaneously cast the spell using his own spell slots, and he also gains the ability to cast mass cure critical wounds once per day. This allows rangers to cast cure spells one level earlier than they normally would.

Rather complex, no? It should be easy.

If you're a Cleric, Archivist, Favored Soul, Spirit Shaman, Druid or (if using the Dragonlance Campaign Setting) Mystic, you get the ability to spontaneously cast spells from the Healing domain. Period.

If you're not a divine spellcaster (a Fighter or Duskblade with Martial Study, or a Crusader), you can cast these spells once per day as spell-like abilities with a caster level equal to half your character level. Simple again, no?

The complexity comes with Paladins and Rangers (you do notice I like to throw them several bones here and there, right?). This applies to the Project Heretica Paladin, the Justiciar, and the Retooled Ranger. By the time you get this ability they're probably casting 1st level spells, so they get the ability to spontaneously expend one of their spell slots and cast Cure Light Wounds based on their caster level. However, until level 8, they can cast Cure Moderate, Cure Serious, Cure Critical and others as spell-like abilities. Come 8th level, they get the ability to cast Cure Moderate Wounds spontaneously, so they no longer get their free 1/day SLA; however, they keep Cure Serious and Cure Critical as SLAs. Come 11th level and 14th level, same thing happens with Cure Serious and Cure Critical. However, they permanently get the ability to cast Mass Cure Light Wounds, Heal, Regenerate, Mass Cure Critical Wounds and Mass Heal as spell-like abilities using their own CL. So, in the end, they get a blend of both. Easier now to the eyes?

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, and every three levels after that, a knight hospitaller gains a bonus feat in addition to those he obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats or the following feats: Augment Healing, Domain Focus (Complete Divine); Healing Devotion, Imbued Healing, Touch of Healing (Complete Champion); Azure Touch (Magic of Incarnum). A knight hospitaller must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a knight hospitaller is considered to have a fighter level equal to his class level (-2 if his remaining levels are in the Fighter class).

Get used to this. Bonus feats are the meat of any martial character, and there's little reason why not to provide them to a purely martial-inclined character. Unlike the pious templar (of which I blatantly stole the explanation), they only get Fighter bonus feats or Healing Devotion, nothing else. That's because not all entry points have access to turn undead, AND they don't get the flexibility of domains. They get access to a much smaller list, though.

That last sentence does require some explanation, though. Most of my class retoolings have the notion that they count their class levels as (x-y) Fighter levels for purposes of qualifying for feats, where x is equal to the class levels and y is a number between 1 and 4. Fighters, naturally, get full levels; Warblades gets class levels -2, and PBAJ Divine Champions get class level -4. Stacking another penalty on top of that would be pretty unfair, so the effective Fighter level of the character would be equal to all class levels which grant such benefit, minus the highest amongst the penalties. Thus, a Fighter 2/Warblade x/Paladin 4/Knight Hospitaller 3 would have an effective Fighter level of 5+x, since the highest penalty amongst all would be that of the Paladin. A Fighter 6/Knight Hospitaller 3 would have an effective Fighter level of 7, on the other hand. A Warblade 6/Knight Hospitaller 3 would also have an effective Fighter level of 7, since both penalties are of equal level.

Why I insist so much on effective Fighter levels? It relates to more than just Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, mind you. MUCH more than that.

Devotion of the Spirit (Ex): At 3rd level, a knight hospitaller that practices the Devoted Spirit martial discipline finds himself rewarded. He gains an additional known maneuver from the Devoted Spirit discipline. At 6th level and again at 9th level, he gains one extra known maneuver from the Devoted Spirit discipline.

At 6th level, his devotion is rewarded one step deeper. He may learn one new stance from the Devoted Spirit discipline, and he may ready one extra maneuver per day.

To gain the benefit of devotion of the spirit, the knight hospitaller must belong to one martial adept class (crusader, warblade or swordsage) and know at least one Devoted Spirit maneuver (either by means of class-based maneuvers known, or by means of the Martial Study feat). A knight hospitaller may only advance martial maneuvers or spellcasting, but not both.

Decided to throw a bone to Crusaders in here. Devoted Spirit is a very nice discipline, and it fits the healing conception very well, so a Crusader gets a very reduced form of martial maneuver progression this way. So I skipped this one as well. But this is quite definitely the last bone (on this PrC)...or maybe not. That's two bones for them already. The rest of the maneuvers, though, have to be taken through Martial Study or Martial Stance.

Hospitaller’s Blessing (Su): At 3rd level, a knight hospitaller increments the potency of any of the healing spells (or maneuvers) he knows. By uttering the right words, pressing on the right points, or even by showing further devotion, he may heal more hit points than he usually can.

When the knight hospitaller casts a spell from the healing subschool of the conjuration school that restores hit points, he may add 1 + his class level, plus 1 point for every five ranks of the Heal skill above 4, to the amount of hit point damage he heals with the spell. Thus, a 5th level paladin/3rd level knight hospitaller with 12 ranks in Heal may add 5 points to the amount of damage he may heal when casting a cure light wounds spell (4 for his three class levels plus the added point, plus 1 for having at least 9 ranks in Heal). This bonus does not apply to other abilities such as lay on hands, but it applies to spontaneous spells from the Healing domain, spell-like abilities from the conjuration (healing) school, and Devoted Spirit strike maneuvers that heal hit point damage (such as crusader’s strike).

Healing, ahoy!

Since this PrC is heavily healing-inclined, it makes sense to provide a small bonus to healing spells much like Project Heretica Paladins do with the Vigor aura. This is based both on their class level AND in Heal ranks, so that those ranks aren't lost. Thus, they get a decent bonus that easily reaches an extra 15 points of healing with each use, which is excellent. This also applies to other abilities, including the Devoted Spirit maneuvers, so you can heal quite a lot with them. Strike of Righteous Vitality will be a slight powerhouse with this, and even the lowly Crusader's Strike will be worthwhile on those with Martial Study. Of course, the Cleric gets even more benefits if they decide to go pure healers.

Greater Lay on Hands (Su): At 4th level, the knight hospitaller is gifted with even greater healing potential. He may heal a larger amount of wounds when laying his hands upon people. The knight hospitaller now adds twice his class level (or two times the sum of his knight hospitaller class levels plus levels in a class that grants lay on hands or a similar ability) times his Charisma modifier when determining the amount of hit points he may heal by using lay on hands (effectively doubling the amount of healing he may provide).

This is one point where the benefit of Lay on Hands from the vanilla Paladin and that of the Project Heretica Paladin differ.

A Paladin 5/Knight Hospitaller 4 with Charisma 20 may heal somewhere along the lines of 90 hit points on a single use. A Project Heretica Paladin 5/Knight Hospitaller 4 will instead heal up to 135 hp. Both are two levels below Heal, but the Project Heretica Paladin will outclass the Heal spell even before it can be cast, if only because of the further benefits to it.

Thus, instead of doubling your class level bonus, those Project Heretica Paladins and Justiciars instead get 10 + their sum of Paladin/Justiciar and Knight Hospitaller class levels, times their Charisma modifier. That's about 5 extra points per Charisma modifier, which is still strong, but not to the degree of doubling class level.

Hospitaller’s Ward (Ex or Su): A knight hospitaller tends to the weary and the wounded, but it is also his oath to protect these people from harm. Since one of the best ways to prevent a terrible wound is to act before it happens, the knight hospitaller may transform part of his healing powers into a protective ability.

At 4th level, a knight hospitaller may either “lose” a prepared spell slot with a conjuration (healing) spell that heals hit point damage or expend a spell slot of a level in which he knows at least one conjuration (healing) spell that heals hit point damage to gain the benefit of hospitaller’s ward. As well, a knight hospitaller may sacrifice a daily use of his Healing domain spell-like abilities, exchange a Healing domain spell slot, or expend a Devoted Spirit maneuver that allows hit point recovery to gain the same benefit (as if you had initiated the strike maneuver). Treat the spell (or maneuver) as usual: the effect has the same area, any dice is rolled as usual, the benefit of hospitaller’s blessing applies as usual, except for two things: first, the spell (or maneuver) only affects allies in the case of an area spell, and second, all the recipients of the spell or effect gain temporary hit points equal to half the amount of hit point damage the spell or effect would have healed (thus, a knight hospitaller expending a heal spell as a 15th level caster would instead provide 75 temporary hit points). These temporary hit points last for a number of minutes equal to the knight hospitaller’s caster level (or initiator level), or the knight hospitaller’s class level plus his Charisma modifier, whichever is higher.

At 7th level, a knight hospitaller may sacrifice any of the spells (or maneuvers) mentioned above, but instead of providing temporary hit points, he may instead provide a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to his Charisma modifier to the target (or targets) of the effect. The bonus to AC lasts only for a number of rounds equal to twice the level of the spell (or maneuver) used.

In layman terms: you can expend a Cure Light Wounds spell and provide half the benefit as temporary hit points, or expend a Crusader's Strike and provide half the healing as temporary hit points alongside the damage dealt to the enemy. At 7th level, you instead provide a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier if you wish. This expands the options of spells such as Mass Cure Light Wounds or maneuvers such as Rallying Strike (if you manage to catch it) into buffing abilities. It's terrible when all your healing efforts go to waste, so this is an excellent way to shield them from harm after your healing has been dispensed.

Hospitaller’s Resolve (Su): At 5th level, a knight hospitaller learns to heal his own wounds, or even to dispense healing, at the very moment he attacks an enemy. He may draw from his pool of healing to restore wounds, as if he were laying his hands on the individual (or on himself), but he does it at a moment’s notice.

As an immediate action as part of a successful melee attack, a knight hospitaller may expend part of his pool of lay on hands on himself. He may expend as much of the pool of lay on hands as he needs, up to his full normal hit point amount. The knight hospitaller may not use his lay on hands ability during the turn in which he activates hospitaller’s resolve (for example, if he activates the ability as part of an attack of opportunity), nor he may use hospitaller’s resolve if he already used lay on hands on the last turn.

At 8th level, the knight hospitaller may instead heal an ally within 30 feet of himself, as if he were using lay on hands on the person. The same restrictions of the ability apply; the knight hospitaller merely extends his healing to an ally instead of healing himself. If the knight hospitaller uses a Devoted Spirit strike maneuver that heals hit point damage (such as crusader’s strike), he may add points from his lay on hands pool to the amount of hit point healed by the maneuver, but only for one ally; thus, he may choose to apply the hospitaller’s resolve bonus when using rallying strike, but he may only apply the benefit to one ally; the rest are healed by the normal amount of hit points the maneuver usually heals.

Oh look, you can now get the effect of the Devoted Spirit healing maneuvers while using your pool of Lay on Hands! Thus, you may no longer need to use your lay on hands by expending a standard action, but rather as part of another action. Crusaders still get the benefit they once got with the healing maneuvers, but this somewhat equals the ground between them and other such classes.

Now, why immediate instead of swift action? Well, immediate means one thing; it can be activated outside your turn, but otherwise it's like a swift action. Now, assume you built a lockdown Crusader and used your feats for Combat Reflexes and Karmic Strike and Stand Still. You use an Attack of Opportunity, but you need to heal someone in case they get to move again. Well, what better idea than to expend part of your healing pool to heal that ally (at least, when you get to 8th level) and stop the enemy dead on its tracks? That means you can effectively heal as an immediate action if you manage to land an attack of opportunity, which definitely prevents an enemy from taking a valuable ally. That's action economy at its best, and takes pretty much any lockdown build up one tier (with a Battle Cleric taking the cake on this).

Lay Off Afflictions (Su): A knight hospitaller doesn’t just heal wounds. His oath towards healing the wounded and soothing the weary extends to other kinds of afflictions. The fatigue of pilgrimage, the corruption stemming from a disease, or the affliction of poison can be healed by the touch of a knight hospitaller.

Beginning at 5th level, the knight hospitaller can choose to spend some of the healing bestowed by lay on hands to remove other harmful conditions affecting the target. To remove each ability, a healer must have a minimum requisite amount of ranks in the Heal skill. This ability only applies to actual uses of lay on hands (or a similar ability that affects allies, but not those that affect only the user), not expenditure of lay on hands healing by means of the hospitaller’s resolve class ability (see above).
5 points: ability damage (10 ranks), daze (8 ranks), fatigue (10 ranks), sicken (10 ranks), slow (10 ranks)
10 points: ability drain (14 ranks), exhaustion (14 ranks), nausea (14 ranks), paralysis (10 ranks), poison (14 ranks), stun (10 ranks)
20 points: blind (12 ranks), deaf (12 ranks), disease (12 ranks), energy drain (14 ranks), petrify (18 ranks)

A knight hospitaller can remove a condition (or more than one condition) and heal damage with the same touch, so as long as he expends the required number of points.

Oh yeah...they also get to heal afflictions. Hooray; now you can be a full healer just by using your lay on hands! Just...not as an immediate action. That would be broken beyond belief.

In any case, you'll notice you need a minimum set of ranks in Heal in order to heal a condition. This is because Heal is definitely underused, when it should have been a very useful skill. I have some love for the underdogs, and in this case Heal is a definite underdog, so it gets some more love...by forcing the knight hospitaller to spend at least ONE skill point on it (and it has at least 1 if your Int is extremely low, but generally between 3-5) on that skill. Which can be quite useful, actually, as a heal between rests.

You'll also notice this is rather similar to the Dragon Shaman and the Retooled Healer's class abilities. This is intentional; this allows both classes to retain some of their power when using their Touch of Vitality or Healing Hands class abilities while getting a plethora of others. In fact, this is exactly the same as the Healing Hands class ability, but expanded to other classes such as Clerics and Paladins.

Hospitaller’s Sacrifice (Su): The life of a knight hospitaller is less than the life of someone wounded or afflicted. When the power to heal the wounds of others and soothe their ailments wanes, the knight hospitaller freely gives of his own life to provide healing.

At 6th level, a knight hospitaller may burn two points of his Constitution as a swift action to recover his pool of lay on hands by an amount equal to his character level. This loss of Constitution is considered ability burn (see Expanded Psionics Handbook) and thus may not be healed magically, psionically, supernaturally, or avoided by any means: it only returns through natural healing. The knight hospitaller may expend as many points of Constitution as he deems fit, but he must always expend two points to add his character level to the lay on hands pool (thus, he may burn four points of Constitution to add twice his character level to the lay on hands pool). A knight hospitaller may not have more points in his pool of lay of hands than his maximum amount restored by means of this ability; the rest of the points must be used immediately (either on himself, or on an ally).

THIS is essentially the ability that conflicts with the Project Heretica Paladin's Lay on Hands.

The original intention was that this would recover the pool once wasted, since while you'd get a lot of new things, you'd get a very short pool. Ability Burn is really brutal, and burning your ability score (and thus hit points and reducing your Fort save) could be quite dangerous. However, the Project Heretica Paladin has none of these issues, so they don't need to use it. Thus, this class feature applies ONLY if you're not using the Project Heretica Paladin until further notice, because it's essentially redundant.

Quickened Lay on Hands (Su): At 8th level, a knight hospitaller may use his lay on hands ability as a swift action instead of a standard action. As usual, he may not use his quickened lay on hands ability if he had already used his hospitaller’s resolve special ability.

A bit late, but in case you still insist on using Lay on Hands via touch (or you don't want to wait for an attack of opportunity to happen), you can use it as a swift action. This means you can heal pretty much whenever you want, which means your healing will expend faster.

Extend the Healing (Su): At 9th level, the knight hospitaller has enough power that he may sacrifice other powers rather than his life to recharge his healing abilities. He may expend a prepared spell or spell slot as a swift action to recover his pool of lay on hands by an amount equal to the spell’s level times his caster level or the maximum amount of healing that the spell would have healed (but the hospitaller’s blessing ability does not apply), whichever is higher; thus, a cure light wounds spell would restore either 13 points (if the character’s caster level is lower than 13) or his caster level, a cure serious wounds spell would restore either 26 points or two times his caster level, and a heal spell may restore either 150 points or six times his caster level. A knight hospitaller may sacrifice his daily uses of his Healing domain spell-like abilities (if he has them) to recharge his lay on hands pool, as well.

In the case of knights hospitaller that can use Devoted Spirit maneuvers, they may not use their maneuvers to recharge their lay on hands healing pool, but if they have a stance that restores hit points (such as Martial Stance or Aura of Triumph), they may apply the bonus towards recharging their lay on hands pool instead.

Again, this conflicts with the Project Heretica Paladin, so it's nixed until further notice if using that method of lay on hands. But if you're using the vanilla method, then by all means go ahead. Monks may or may not apply this benefit (depending on whether they're retooled or not) and Healers have the same situation (whether using the retooled version or not), but Dragon Shamans have carte blanche on using it if only because their version of "lay on hands" isn't like that of the Project Heretica Paladin (unless you choose to replace it, in which case you don't apply this either).

However, unlike Hospitaller's Sacrifice, this allows you to shift your spell-based healing (or stance-based healing) into points you can recharge into your pool, then turn them into the equivalent of a Strike of Righteous Vitality as an immediate action. Thus, it has a lot of tactical utility if you think of it.

Empowered Lay on Hands (Su): At 10th level, a knight hospitaller heals 3 hit points of damage per every 2 points he expends from his daily healing pool. This only applies to the amount of hit points restored by the ability, not to the amount of points that may be expended to heal status effects (see lay off afflictions, above). This ability only applies to actual uses of lay on hands (or a similar ability that affects allies), not expenditure of lay on hands healing by means of the hospitaller’s resolve class ability (see above).

The capstone is quite useful in reducing the amount of lay on hands you have to expend in order to heal someone. A paladin 5/knight hospitaller 10 with Charisma 24 using this ability will heal either a total of 315 (if using the vanilla Paladin's lay on hands) or 262 (if using the Project Heretica Paladin's lay on hands), which is above and beyond what you can get via a Heal spell, with its caveats.

However, due to how the Project Heretica Paladin works, there's a chance the capstone ability may get nixed. Healing up to 262 points of damage (or more if using the aura of vigor, and that depends on the level AND the Charisma modifier) every encounter can be pretty potent, even if the Cleric can turn all his spells into Mass Heals. While some of the abilities get nixed by means of redundancy or altered because of sheer power, this ability is borderline because the non-recharging alternative is already much more powerful (since you can turn a Heal spell into an empowered, quickened Heal spell without the condition healing through Extend the Healing). So, this one is allowed for Project Heretica Paladins until further notice.

--

As usual: comments? Questions? Healing sucks; why bother? This is too powerful because it fixes healing?

As I mentioned, the abilities Greater Lay on Hands, Hospitaller's Sacrifice and Extend the Healing are either altered or off-limits if using the Project Heretica variants, because of the sheer power of their Lay on Hands. Commentary can begin around here.

[NineThePuma]

Thanks for the constant reminder, tho. Sorry, it was something I was reading through and saw was kinda half-way fixed, and while I could easily make the leap of logic that said "bad editing, here's what it said" I know that you like to have things work, so I thought I'd remind you. Sorry if I come off as sorta dickish with pointing it out.

(And I'm only apologizing for what may be complete and utter sincerity because there's the possibility of it being sarcasm, and I respect you too much to not apologize.)




None.

It's very simple; if I were to add martial maneuvers, the retooled Paladin would take the Crusader and make it worthless. I already oppose that idea on the inverse (the Crusader flat replacing the Paladin), so it makes little sense that I support that type of exchange. Specifically on spellcasting, which I place (alongside the smite, the mount, and now the auras) as what differs a Paladin from the Crusader.

Having said that, there's an attempt to add something that added Paladins the flavor of Crusaders through ACFs. It was meant to replace the original, but it shouldn't be so difficult to properly replace. Check under "Complete Martial" and "Alternate Class Features" for the exchanges, which essentially replace the smite AND the mount; in order to make them Project Heretica compatible, the stances replace Standing Before Adversity and the maneuvers replace the smite tiers. No offense, but I'm going to disagree with you there. Mechanics don't matter, it's how you fluff it.

While the Heretica Classes are amazing, to me casting (as it currently exists in the vancian form) should be taken into a dark alley way and shot. I don't want to have a massive argument with you over it (see again: massive respect) but if I play a class and there's casting, I tend to trade my casting away. It's purely a preference thing, and your classes are powerful enough that I could probably just drop casting straight out, but I like to know what you think is appropriate.

[T.G. Oskar]

Sorry, it was something I was reading through and saw was kinda half-way fixed, and while I could easily make the leap of logic that said "bad editing, here's what it said" I know that you like to have things work, so I thought I'd remind you. Sorry if I come off as sorta dickish with pointing it out.

Meh. No worries. I mean, I got several things I've pretty much shelved and haven't taken the same attention as this. It's just that Project Heretica is basically the largest homebrewing project of mine thus far, so I've treated it fairer than the rest. I mean, I still have a fluff-based project based on deities which is largely incomplete, which I intend to finish. That, and the "Complete Martial" set of stuff for martial adepts, of which I've made a new PrC. That, and between looking for a job, DMing twice a week and playtesting on at least one of them, and other stuff, you can expect me to forget about it.


(And I'm only apologizing for what may be complete and utter sincerity because there's the possibility of it being sarcasm, and I respect you too much to not apologize.)

Sarcasm translates badly on the Internet, but that gives me some ideas. Still, I wouldn't be sarcastic regarding one of my projects...


No offense, but I'm going to disagree with you there. Mechanics don't matter, it's how you fluff it.

While the Heretica Classes are amazing, to me casting (as it currently exists in the vancian form) should be taken into a dark alley way and shot. I don't want to have a massive argument with you over it (see again: massive respect) but if I play a class and there's casting, I tend to trade my casting away. It's purely a preference thing, and your classes are powerful enough that I could probably just drop casting straight out, but I like to know what you think is appropriate.

The thing is that, as I mentioned, there's the problem with incompatibility.

Consider the following steps:
First, I plan to make a Paladin rewrite based on all the nice stuff that they're meant to get, but nixing spellcasting entirely. To do so, I either go with Incarnum, Psionics or Martial Maneuvers. Assume, for purposes of discussion, that I go with maneuvers.
Then, I make this fix based on having the smites, the martial maneuvers, the auras and maybe the mount or a reasonable facsimile. However, I need to make something the key of the class. Let's assume, thus, that I choose martial maneuvers.
With this assumption, I need to make the following question: how to make the Paladin unique enough to prevent making the Crusader, a class meant to co-exist with the Paladin, obsolete? Adding too little maneuvers or limited disciplines won't really cut it, and adding exactly the same amount of maneuvers as the Crusader makes the latter obsolete because the auras more than overcome Furious Counterstrike/Steely Resolve. Furthermore, maneuvers are diverse enough so as to make smites obsolete.

The two natural solutions would be as follows:
One, that I effectively make a superior Crusader, and the Crusader class makes no sense as you have everything that the class wanted and more, except for the limitations (and even then, you have the Blackguard, Justiciar and Anarch to solve that). Thus, there's no reason to play a Crusader if you're gonna have a class that is by all means superior, even if alignment-locked.

Two, that you need to balance the Paladin vis-a-vis the Crusader, and that's basically returning to the current concept; no need to homebrew a solution to the Paladin, since the Crusader does all that the Paladin wants and more.

In order to make a solution that remains viable against the four classes that could replace a Paladin (Cleric, Crusader, Soulborn, Divine Mind), the Paladin has to have something that makes it contrast. Going with martial maneuvers threads too much on the Crusader's path, going with Incarnum makes the Soulborn pointless and threading on psionics makes Divine Mind obsolete. Threading on divine magic, however, won't ever make the Cleric obsolete since the Cleric has full spellcasting; of course, this still presents the problem of whether the Paladin has any reason to be played if the Cleric is still present, but that's a problem that's specific to how the Cleric was built, rather than how the Paladin was built. In this case, to make the Paladin viable with spellcasting similar to that of a Cleric, you'd need to boost Paladin spellcasting (which I find a solution that then infringes on the mechanical concept of the Bard even if there's a precedent within Psychic Warrior and even Divine Mind) or nerf Cleric (and that's something that can be done through houseruling rather than homebrewing). The three things that make a Cleric better than a Paladin at everything (Divine Power, heavy armor and shield proficiency, better spellcasting) can be tackled in such a way that Cleric keeps full spellcasting yet the Paladin has a niche in which it can deliver several builds in which the Cleric will have troubles. Two out of the three can be dealt with houserules (light armor or no armor and no heavy shield proficiency for the second; keeping Divine Power and Righteous Might within the War domain for the first), while the third is something that can be dealt with but not to the extent that Cleric becomes pointless to play with.

Trying the same with the Crusader, however, makes one completely incompatible with the other. The core Paladin and the Crusader are meant to coexist, but the only thing the Paladin has that the Crusader lacks is the special mount (and the ACFs that replace it), locked alignment, and its spellcasting. A dip in Cleric and then Ruby Knight Vindicator is basically the final stake on the Paladin as a proper 20-level class, unless you wish to go ubercharger which is the only build that exists properly with Paladin 20 (and even then, Cavalier makes it even more dangerous). The concept of Project Heretica was to make a class that could exist in its own terms against all four of the classes that could replace the Paladin; hence, why the Project Heretica Paladin won't have ACFs related to martial maneuvers, psionics or incarnum (though that doesn't mean Divine Mind can't be retooled, and Soulborn already has been retooled even if it hasn't been released just yet). The aim is that all four Project Heretica classes are comparable in strength and worthiness to a Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator build, though that build hardly can be surpassed (otherwise I'd need something to enable exploiting action economy). The classes hardly get 9th level spells and about 10 maneuvers, 3 stances and 7 readied maneuvers (with a Cleric 9/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 build), but with the auras, the improved smites, the difficulty to kill and whatnot they are comparable in those areas and could hold their niche quite well.

Of course, you can discuss how the purpose of the project still can't be reached (a core Cleric 20 can outmatch all four classes), but I'd like to think I reached a point where the classes are useful enough. I still don't know how the Divine Champion chassis rates on the tiers, but I'd be fine with high Tier 3/low Tier 2 (Tier 1 would be something I'd consider nerfing) or even mere Tier 3. I'd be worried if they end up still Tier 4 since I consider they can do quite a lot with their actions and they can be built for a reasonable amount of situations with their spellcasting.

Largely, and to make my rant shorter: the only reason I don't support martial maneuvers on the Project Heretica classes is because that's tantamount to placing the Crusader on the same conundrum as the Paladin currently is. I could tackle the Divine Mind (though I have no method on how to deal with it, though the auras do exist) and the Soulborn is already tackled with, and both would use the Divine Champion chassis which is the core of Project Heretica (the chassis system itself). Certainly, you could in your table use the Project Heretica Paladin with the Crusader maneuver progression and I couldn't say anything because that's your table (and hence your rules), but do consider that the Crusader's existence would be pretty pointless, and the last thing I want is go too far so as to get the Crusader on the same situation as the Paladin is. You could use a spell point system with the Project Heretica Paladin (which already exists on Dungeons & Dragons Online) or use a non-Vancian spellcasting system, and that would make the Paladin all the more different, but I don't envision the Paladin per se without spellcasting. That's essentially what made me retool the Paladin on first instance, after all; to make the Paladin more useful but keeping the stuff that worked, and in my opinion I couldn't envision a Paladin without spellcasting.

Hopefully that answers your question.

[NineThePuma]

You have addressed my concerns better than I thought possible.


Now to go figure out how to integrate a Mana system or something. :smallamused:

[T.G. Oskar]

Once more: playtest results!

This last session dealt with yet another strong creature; first it was a pair of black bears, this time it was a pair of elephants. I made it so that they were "mastodons" (though I could have used mammoths, although both mammoths and mastodons not only have stats, but are far more powerful than the norm for the group), and they were quite a menace. The paladin did as usual: get part of the damage for the Fighter while the latter...really did nothing.

This was pretty funny. You see, I was trying to convince the Bard player to defuse a battle situation against unfriendly Talenta barbarians mounted on fastieths. The barbarians were asking for food and money ("tribute"), and the bard made a respectable DC 23, which I allowed to boost to 25 when he offered a slight bribe of a few platinum pieces and the promise they would get more food. So the barbarians (four in total) went with three fourths of the group (the warmage decided to remain, since she was pretty tired).

The "mastodons" were pretty vicious, but oddly enough the barbarians went first. So they did what they needed to do, and that was...well, charging. Being 5th level barbarians (used the stats for existing 2nd level barbarians from the module Whispers of the Vampire's Blade but with three levels and having Ride-by Attack as their secondary feature, as well as increased stats and BAB), they weren't much of a challenge...or so I thought.

First, a few sets of changes were done to charge, in which the bonus to attack rolls on a charge also applied to damage rolls if you had at least one level of Fighter or an effective Fighter level (Paladins have an effective Fighter level equal to their class level -4, Barbarians equal to their class level -3), so the barbarians gained a +2 to attack and damage rolls. Second, they used their rage, so that was a +4 to Strength and Constitution, so +2 to attack rolls and damage rolls. Third, they were charging, and that means their bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls doubles because they're using the momentum from the horse, not themselves (and they were going at 100 ft per round on fastieths, so why not?). And finally, they used lances, which doubled all damage.

So, in average, they did a VERY solid amount of damage. The lowest they could do on a charge was 16 points of damage or something along those lines. Elephants have over 101 hp, and they were striking them twice. The group was amazed when I started mentioning "elephant 1 takes about 30 points of damage, the other takes 37".

Then, the mastodons decide to trample the paladin and the fighter. Overrun is a bit different, in that it can be used as a move-equivalent action or as part of a charge, cannot be evaded, and a failed opposed roll (BAB + Strength modifier) turned the opponent prone. Imagine that on a HUGE character, with the charge bonus, and with a trample dealing 2d8 + 15 points of damage. With a 42 on the opposed Strength check, not even the half-giant could compare; they both fell prone, and ate quite a bit of damage. Both elephants ran one character each, so the damage was halved; if I had used the normal attack, the paladin would have been squished like nothing.

Since the paladin was at a position where two attacks of opportunity could end his life (average HP FTL), he decided to pull off a fast one by intimidating the elephant. It was pretty simple; a hearty shout to demoralize the elephant (since they CAN be intimidated). Even with a -8 penalty to the roll, the intimidate WORKED, mostly because taking the Paladin into the lower half of his hit points caused his Standing Before Adversity class feature to turn on, so that gave him a +2 on all Intimidate checks. The half-giant Fighter, not willing to eat an attack roll, decided to follow suit. Meanwhile, the Bard (transformed into an Avariel to gain flight) began to sing...affecting even the barbarians.

So add a +3 to damage, and another charge against the "mastodons"...and they were right at 1/4th of their HP. An attempt to run away caused the barbarians to get yet another attack (this time of opportunity), but even with the lack of doubling they took enough damage to be struck in three blows (each, so it was six blows altogether). So...basically, four 5th level Small barbarians in Medium dinosaurs took down two "mastodons" like nothing, while the wall of meat and the half-giant with the big sheet of metal did absolutely nothing except take damage. The paladin stole 4 points of damage from the Fighter, so...

The second battle was against a pair of Dragonnes (fought at separate instances, with at least one round of difference). This time, the warmage was there, and the creatures went for the biggest guy around (not the one with the carapace or the mage; the one with the large sheet of metal) and pounced on him after making their roar (which I assumed, given that there was no indication regarding that, was a free action to activate). The combination of Shieldmate and the divine aura was magnificent, taking 4 points of damage each time and adding the +4 to AC (and +2 to Reflex saves). Still, the paladin was unfortunately lacking damage, with the warmage dealing much, much more.

So, what did we learned today?
The Paladin NEEDS some extra form of damage, be it Power Attack and some solid Strength or a magic weapon that deals more than 1d8 points of damage or a high crit weapon.
Some initiative would be nice. Going last doesn't allow you to cast spells before letting the enemy get on, so...
Without facing evil creatures, the Paladin isn't any better than any other class if unoptimized. I mean, the only useful feat thus far has been the retooled version of Shieldmate which serves as a small buff.

Finally level 6, and the Paladin has access to Divine Punishment (FINALLY!!!) and two feats, one of them a bonus feat. Since the Paladin needs some help, he'll get Power Attack as his Paladin bonus feat and Improved Smiting as his regular feat. Both are modified as follows:
Power Attack works as always, except effective levels in Fighter provide a "penalty buffer"; basically, you can ignore one point of penalty for every five effective Fighter levels after the 1st; 6th, 11th, 16th...). This allows you to use Power Attack and gain the increased damage without risking attack bonus, but you still need a point of penalty for the benefit to work (so at EFL 6th, you can get two points worth of damage for one point of penalty, three points of damage for two points of penalty, and so on.
Improved Smiting provides a few benefits, including adding Charisma to damage rolls, and specifically to double smite damage when smiting a character of a specified alignment. The other is that you can deal normal smite damage to Neutral creatures (regarding the chosen alignment), so that means the smite works against a greater number of enemies. With the buffs to smite, that means you can have a reliable tactic against a greater number of enemies. Of course, Improved Smiting applies to Smite Evil, so now smite evil deals 12 points of damage against evil creatures and affects normal creatures for 6 points of damage.

So, as usual: comments? Questions? Any other feat you might want to recommend aside from Shield Specialization, Shieldmate (both of which are different from the norm) and Least Mark of Sentinel (more flavor than anything else)? 6th level is a bit important since the Fighter just happens to have reached level 6, so a lot of his feats start to scale up: he deals even more damage than before (Weapon Specialization adds an extra +2 to damage; Power Attack now has a penalty buffer of 1), and the new feats he chose add more defensive qualities (Armor Specialization adds +1 to AC, -1 to Armor Check Penalty, +1 to Max Dex bonus, -5% Arcane Spell Failure and DR 4/-) and a way to strike extra enemies (Cleave, which he can do twice per round instead of merely once), while the Paladin will have some ways to deal extra damage while getting the benefits of the aura rider thanks to the feats.

[Eurus]

The alteration to the Improved Smiting feat is very interesting. Any chance of adding that to the official paladin rework? I know it's traditional for the paladin, but I always hate the idea that a character should be denied significant portions of their abilities against many enemies based on alignment, so any bit of mitigation helps.

(Besides, if they're fighting a paladin, isn't that evil enough to be worth smiting? :smalltongue:)

[ZeronosVega]

T.G. Oskar, I cannot put to words how amazed I am with your work. I have always enjoyed the Paladin Base Class and it's advancements, but there always seemed to have been something missing that I never could figure out. When I get the chance to participate in another 3.5 game, I will be sure to test out some of your classes. It's the least I can do, since I have no experience when it comes to DnD retooling.

However, I would love to ask a favor of sorts: If/When you have the chance, would it be possible for you to address other Paladin Prestige classes such as the Shadowbane Inqisitor or the Bone Knight? Those are two of my favorites and I would love to be able to go into either of those with your retooled classes.

[T.G. Oskar]

The alteration to the Improved Smiting feat is very interesting. Any chance of adding that to the official paladin rework? I know it's traditional for the paladin, but I always hate the idea that a character should be denied significant portions of their abilities against many enemies based on alignment, so any bit of mitigation helps.

(Besides, if they're fighting a paladin, isn't that evil enough to be worth smiting? :smalltongue:)

Thing is, it's not just traditional but defining for the class. The Paladin, as is, fights all kinds of evil; the Blackguard fights the forces of Good and his own, the Justiciar fights all elements of Chaos alongside lawbreakers, and the Anarch doesn't care about whom does it fight, except for the forces of Order which are a particular spine on its proverbial back. However, just about everyone understands the utility of those whom are neutral in regards to their alignment (Good and Evil can use X Neutral as allies or tolerate their existence or attempt to win them to their cause; Law and Chaos don't mind Neutral X so as long as they follow the law/don't push them), and thus there's not much of a need regarding that.

Now, there IS one thing I might do, and that is make yet another ACF where you sacrifice your progression of smites (remember you get the second tier of your smite at 5th level) for the ability to smite neutral creatures, and potentially offer the ability to smite people of your own alignment (and thus open the smite abilities to just about everyone) at 15th level. This allows you to make a choice between smiting everyone or smiting those you oppose the most, but with a wider variety of smites.

Also, remember there's not only Improved Smiting (which should be an option), but Strength of Conviction, which is essentially a feat that allows you to switch your smites but limited to uses per day. Both work well as options (there might be some people who want their smites to work exclusively upon a single alignment), so there's no reason why not to keep this as-is (the ability to smite someone outside your alignment should be a conscious option, after all, since it's the power of your own alignment doing the work), but in case that feat revisions can't be used, this is a saving grace.


T.G. Oskar, I cannot put to words how amazed I am with your work. I have always enjoyed the Paladin Base Class and it's advancements, but there always seemed to have been something missing that I never could figure out. When I get the chance to participate in another 3.5 game, I will be sure to test out some of your classes. It's the least I can do, since I have no experience when it comes to DnD retooling.

However, I would love to ask a favor of sorts: If/When you have the chance, would it be possible for you to address other Paladin Prestige classes such as the Shadowbane Inqisitor or the Bone Knight? Those are two of my favorites and I would love to be able to go into either of those with your retooled classes.

Well...I half-addressed one of them, and the other...

You see, I decided, oddly enough, to keep Shadowbane Inquisitor as-is. The only exchange I did was that last bit of info related to how Shadowbane Inquisitor relates to Paladin levels if you took the Blackguard prestige class, something which, as you might realize, no longer exists (so it gets nixed, since the idea is that a Shadowbane Inquisitor essentially takes the concept of the Paladin and mixes it with "black ops". Might revise it, though, but the thing is that the Shadowbane Stalker, the cleric/rogue counterpart, has very limited spellcasting ability which could also be used for the Paladin (except the abilities are kinda off for them).

Bone Knight, though...that's quite interesting. It has a few things that could be changed (mostly, why have 3/4ths BAB if the class is meant to be a frontliner?), but for the most part it works as intended. It's a difficult class to tackle since it's meant to provide for a necromantic-flavored Paladin in service to an undead-heavy nation. Particularly, the conversions.

Rebuke Undead is pretty straightforward in that regard; you exchange the ability to turn undead with the ability to rebuke undead. Any feat that requires turning undead is no longer active, but you can take feats that require rebuking undead (and there are a few very good ones, actually).

Spellcasting is also pretty straightforward; entering into Bone Knight grants you the ability to cast Cleric spells of the necromancy subschool as usual, but you're still alignment-locked regarding the spells, except for those in the class description (namely Deathwatch, Death Knell and Desecrate; if possible, Consumptive Field would also get in). Paladins that are no longer Good, however, cannot cast certain spells of their own (namely Consecrate and other related spells, including those that might have emerged from the Book of Exalted Deeds that have the [Good] subtype).

The big point to tackle are the remaining abilities. Lay on Hands may be dealt with easily (as the class provides), but the rest is a bit harsh. Essentially, you no longer progress smite abilities, which is reasonable, but the thing is that you may no longer smite, which isn't (because Blackguards DO retain their ability to smite). In this case, they would retain their ability to smite, but those whom chose the Blinding smite class feature no longer have access to it; they, however, may change it to any of the Blackguard's smite choices immediately upon taking 1st level. Since they no longer detect evil on their own, there's no need to deal with that.

How that relates with auras, however, might be a tad odd. Likely, that means Paladins that enter Bone Knight cannot use their auras of Consecration and Vigor any longer, because both are related to positive energy. Thus, Paladins/Bone Knights using those auras may replace them for their Blackguard equivalents (Consecration for Desecration, Vigor for Covetous).

Finally, the bit about Standing Before Adversity and the Skeletal Steed. Namely, the latter ability has to be removed, and mention that your Bone Knight levels stack with Paladin levels for purposes of Standing Before Adversity or Warrior's Wings. In the case of Blade Spirit, the abilities acquired through Bonecraft Weapon essentially add to the bonded weapon's abilities, so this works as follows:
Once you reach Bone Knight 6th, you must replace your bonded weapon with a bonecraft weapon. Until then, your levels in Paladin/Blackguard and Bone Knight don't stack, and you can't summon your bonded weapon (it disappears from your hand)
At level 6, a bonded bonecraft weapon no longer gains the holy weapon special quality, the ability to generate a Protection from Alignment effect, or the minor benefit from bonding (light or light distortion). However, you gain the ability to deal 2d6 points of damage to living creatures, and you create a Protection from Alignment effect that blocks living creatures (but doesn't work against undead).
If the weapon gains sentience (and sapience), the weapon houses one of the spirits of a fallen Karrnathi hero, and thus the special purpose becomes limited to "defend King Kaius" or "ensure Karrnathi supremacy". Special abilities are likewise restricted, and the weapon's alignment becomes Lawful Neutral regardless of the user's actual alignment (which means Anarchs get in trouble)
Finally, at 19th level, you get the Magic Circle against Alignment effect against living creatures (and summoned living creatures may not enter your area), while the weapon gains the Enervating special quality (thus, you deal negative levels on a critical hit).
In the case of Valiant Steed, the changes are minimal: basically, the formed steed gains the skeleton template for free, but any abilities gained through the class stack (meanwhile, you can't summon your steed until Bone Knight 2nd). Users of Divine Spirit, sadly, get the shaft because the divine spirit abandons the Paladin permanently; I might consider allowing the player to retrain that feature for something else. Finally; Death Strike may be used 1 day, plus one more time per day for every use of smite you have.

The reasons why I make a patch and not a full-fledged retool is because Bone Knight, aside from those necessary changes to enable emulation, is a formidable class. It's well-built, rarely sacrificing flavor for power, and granting the character a wide array of abilities related to necromancy and leading undead troops. Thus, I don't see a need to provide any changes except for those I mentioned, since otherwise it'd be the same class (for other methods of entry, such as Fighter/Cleric).

Still, a necromancy-themed Divine Champion? Gives me an idea...lemme get to my workshop!

[T.G. Oskar]

Today is...well, it's really Wednesday where I live, but it WAS Tuesday! And you know what that means!?

It's playtest time! Wait; whaddya mean it's two days early? Oh, bother!

In any case...the Paladin reached 6th level, and had a choice for two feats. After some counseling, the Paladin decided for an offensive option and a healing option: namely, Improved Smiting and Martial Study: Crusader's Strike. I could have gone for two options (Improved Smiting AND Martial Study: Mountain Hammer), but the Paladin has gone mostly through support and damage-taking options, so...

Anyways, he gained a few magic items. I've been fair to him, letting him get as much stuff as he could from his share of gold pieces, and having over 4000 gold pieces meant he could get a few more defensive stuff. Thus, he improved his tower shield into a +1 tower shield and added the Displacement armor property to his +1 full plate. Thus, his shield AC increased to a total of +6 (+4 from shield, +1 enhancement, +1 from Shield Specialization), for a grand total of 25 to his AC. Considering only the Bard has more AC than him (a combination of Dexterity, a Mithral Shirt, and using Alter Self to become a Crucian for that +8 to natural armor, alongside fighting defensively AND the paladin's bonuses to AC he reaches a very solid 33), and that the Fighter only has as much AC as the Paladin ONLY when he receives the two bonuses from him... The 1/day miss chance for 5 rounds makes for a very strong defense.

The first battles were against a group of Ettins plus a Hill Giant. The Paladin assisted by stunning one of the Ettins with a very solid smite attack (1d8 from a battleaxe, +2 from Strength, +3 from the Bard's Song, +3 from Charisma to damage and a very strong +12 from Improved Smiting for a total of 1d8+20, an average of 20 points). The second smite (against the same Ettin) dealt just about the same amount of damage, but it paralyzed the enemy, thus allowing the underlying event (the giants attacked a dwarven caravan and a single Dwarf fighter was the lone survivor) to happen (the dwarf made a coup de grace against the paralyzed giant, thus avenging his comrades). Of course, the 3d8+34 points of damage from the Fighter kinda frustrates the Paladin's damage potential, and the Warmage also doing a serious amount of damage (4d8+10 from a single Scorching Ray, plus an extra 1d6 from a Burning Veil)...

The second battle was against a quartet of Quaraphons. For some reason, I wanted to use them, though the vanilla group and not the brutal Quaraphon Bullies (the ones with Barbarian levels). Fighting against them meant taking immediate sonic damage and deafening, which ended with the Warmage's damage potential taking a plunge (with the Ice Knife spell from Complete Arcane being probably the only safe choice) and the Paladin having a reduced smite dealing only 1d8+14 (because Quaraphons are neutral, but Improved Smiting's revision allows for affecting neutral characters, and Charisma still counts). However, the attempts to hit the group caused Divine Punishment to count, so the Quaraphons took about 6 points of damage from just attempting to hit the Paladin's allies. This was also the first time the group had to face full damage, and having a fraction of that damage transferring to the Paladin was quite a bit of a lifesaver. As usual, the Fighter was the MVP, taking just about all of the Quaraphons (three in the same round, two from a full attack and a third from an attack of opportunity) by himself.

The final...well, I have a houserule of rolling a percentile dice to determine the chances of combat, with 51-100 meaning there's an encounter.

The roll was a 100. So I decided "why not have the group tackle a dragon?" Thus, the group had to face...a White Dragon. Young adult, even.

There were two conditions that made the battle slightly harder. First, the entire place was under heavy snow, with a fraction of the area with no snow (basically a 25x30 area) but otherwise limited movement. Second, the intense cold made all creatures wearing metal armor (essentially everyone) take damage as if Chill Metal was cast on them).

The dragon used the classic tactics; breath, take it to the air and stay there, doing strafing tactics with their bites. I cheated a bit, I must admit; basically the dragon fought like if it had good maneuverability despite its size, so it could basically dive down and back up to prevent the dragon from dying in three blows to the fighter's hits.

In any case, the Paladin and the Warmage took some serious damage (the Warmage went from full to a little bit less than half damage), with the Paladin taking an extra 6 points of damage from the breath (from what he took of his allies). It was right then when I realized the Paladin took more than that amount because, of course, the Paladin was wearing an enchanted shield, thus the Paladin took 6 single/4 area damage. The Paladin was still over half his HP, even though he had few (if no) chances to actually hit. However, it was this ability that saved the Warmage from going into -10 and dying from a latter critical hit from the dragon. So, basically, just by being there, the Paladin saved a life. The Warmage had her time to shine, as well, but that's part of the Warmage thread, not this one. By serving as a healer while the dragon stood overhead, only taking ONE critical attack of opportunity from the Fighter, the Warmage could survive a second breath attack after a timely Resist Energy (Cold). The dragon died after a full attack from the Fighter after he failed to sunder his massive weapon. Really, one of these days I'll have him fight without his Large Fullblade, I tell you...

So, what are the things that need explanation? Well:
The Fighter tried this once, but this is probably what I wanted to see after all: two attacks as a standard action. You see, at level 6, the Fighter gets two attacks, but normally he could use them as part of a full attack. However, as part of the revisions for melee characters, a character with 6 levels of Fighter or an effective Fighter level of 6 may make attacks as if he was using a full attack action as a standard action. Thus, one attack at BAB +6 and another at BAB +1. What as a full round attack action, then? How about two attacks at full BAB? Thus, the Fighter can make two attacks at 6th level and furthermore if he stays straight leveled (take that, Fighter 2 dip!!). The Paladin has an effective Fighter level of 2, thus he doesn't get that benefit up until 10th level.
The reason why the Paladin can absorb more damage is because of how the shield adds to the aura's benefit. The shield has a +1 enhancement bonus, and the Paladin has 14 Con; thus, twice his Con + twice his shield's enhancement bonus equals 6 points of absorbed damage (4 if an area attack). The Paladin NEEDS huge hit points to soak all that damage (hence, Constitution does double duty). Even if the Paladin can't contribute through direct damage, the fact that he offers "damage reduction" via a decent-ranged aura really gives him a very solid spot.
In case I haven't explained yet, Improved Smite allows the Paladin to add his Charisma to damage (in this case a +3), and at the same time double the smite damage against creatures of a specific alignment (in this case, against evil creatures). The thing is that even as the smite attempt deals damage only to evil creatures, Improved Smite opens that damage to neutral creatures (though they only take Cha + smite damage). Thus, the Paladin's offensive capability nearly doubles.
That "effective Fighter level" works for much more than just feats. It also works for iterative attacks, and also should work for potions AND some magic items as well. Thus far, it has been tested with scaling feats and now with melee attacks.

Thus, can we take some info out of this? Sure, here's what:
The Paladin could use some MORE offensive potential, but at level 6 it gets quite a bit of offensive potential through Divine Punishment and TWO feats.
On the other hand, the bonus from magic shields, at least with the aura of Devotion, really serves as a lifesaver. Even if it's merely 6 points right now, the fact that this reduced damage can be stacked alongside other ways to reduce damage to shift threat from the squishies (in this case the Warmage) to the meat-shields really redefines what tanking should be. A Paladin, at level 6, with elite array and few magic items has some difficulties contributing within a fully damage-optimized character. Next time, I'll do it with the same point-buy as the PCs for a much more appropriate gauge.
Poor Reflex hurts Paladins. Real bad. Failing BOTH saves really hurts, and the fact that they can't apply their own aura bonuses hurts them more. I mean, if it could, by level 11 you could add your Con to AC and Reflex, which makes the Paladin even harder to strike. That the Paladin has actually so little AC that he actually IS the path of least resistance...
Divine Punishment isn't overwhelmingly powerful, but definitely: damage adds up. The Paladin NEVER hit the dragon, yet he dealt 18 hit points of damage (out of the 225 it had; maximum HP because one of my players just decided to apply a metagame inference, so they were punished) is quite interesting. If it had only the average amount of hit points, that was 1/8th of the total damage dealt without even hitting. Imagine if the Paladin could actually hit...

The battle against all creatures, plus a very unusual "battle" (it was less of an actual combat and more having the Bard turn an unfriendly, lying Dragon Turtle into a helpful protector of the lake) made the Paladin reach level 7. In this session, the Paladin got:
His masterwork tower shield is now a +1 tower shield
His +1 full plate armor is now a +1 full plate armor of displacement
a Javelin of Lightning
an Eternal Wand of Protection from Evil
a pair of Spellguard Rings (thus, the Paladin can now be on the forefront and ignore the spells from the Warmage)
nearly 4,600 gp

This, plus he finally got Lay on Hands. Also, one extra 1st level spell known, which he has yet to learn. His effective Fighter level is also 3rd, just in case you wish to know.

So: questions? Comments? A good item worth 4,600 gp that's NOT a weapon (unless it's a returning javelin or something)? Do consider he has a Healing Belt and a Cloak of Resistance +1. Also, which 2nd level spells he should get, given that he's about to reach 8th level?

[Cieyrin]

Minor nitpick but Eternal Wands are usually arcane only. Are you waiving that requirement?

Item suggestions I have are Torc of the Titans (MIC 143, 3300 gp), Amulet of Tears (MIC 70, 2300 gp), Upgrade the Cloak to +2 (3000 gp), Helm of the Purple Plume (MIC 111, 4500 gp), Scout's Headband (MIC 132, 3400 gp), Gauntlets of Ogre Power (4000 gp), Quicksilver Boots (MIC 119, 3500 gp), Vanguard Treads (MIC 145, 3100 gp), Rock Boots (MIC 130, 2000 gp), Boots of the Mountain King (MIC 78, 1500 gp), Steadfast Boots (MIC 168, 1400 gp), Armbands of Might (MIC 72, 4100 gp), Greatreach Bracers (MIC 108, 2000 gp), Inquisitor Bracers (MIC 113, 1500 gp), Lesser Energy Assault Crystal (MIC 64, 3000 gp), Lesser Life Drinking Crystal (MIC 64, 1500 gp), Lesser Revelation Crystal (MIC 66, 1000 gp), Crystal of Alacrity (MIC 195, 3500 gp), Lesser Crystal of Glancing Blows (MIC 25, 3000 gp) or a Restful Crystal (MIC 26, 500 gp).

[Othniel Edden]

That hospitalar looks fantastic for a divine gish. full bab, and nine tenths spell casting progression, yes please.

[Hazzardevil]

Oskar, I have a minor nitpick, in the ACF section you say Justicar and Anarch can take blade spirit, but they don't have Stand upon Adversity or Thrive in Pain so they can't take it. Is it intentional that they can't take it and you made an error in saying who can take it or are you trying to come up with a class feature to swap for it?

[T.G. Oskar]

Minor nitpick but Eternal Wands are usually arcane only. Are you waiving that requirement?

Mostly. The only other character that can use it is the Warmage, and she already has it on her spell list, so...


Item suggestions I have are Torc of the Titans (MIC 143, 3300 gp), Amulet of Tears (MIC 70, 2300 gp), Upgrade the Cloak to +2 (3000 gp), Helm of the Purple Plume (MIC 111, 4500 gp), Scout's Headband (MIC 132, 3400 gp), Gauntlets of Ogre Power (4000 gp), Quicksilver Boots (MIC 119, 3500 gp), Vanguard Treads (MIC 145, 3100 gp), Rock Boots (MIC 130, 2000 gp), Boots of the Mountain King (MIC 78, 1500 gp), Steadfast Boots (MIC 168, 1400 gp), Armbands of Might (MIC 72, 4100 gp), Greatreach Bracers (MIC 108, 2000 gp), Inquisitor Bracers (MIC 113, 1500 gp), Lesser Energy Assault Crystal (MIC 64, 3000 gp), Lesser Life Drinking Crystal (MIC 64, 1500 gp), Lesser Revelation Crystal (MIC 66, 1000 gp), Crystal of Alacrity (MIC 195, 3500 gp), Lesser Crystal of Glancing Blows (MIC 25, 3000 gp) or a Restful Crystal (MIC 26, 500 gp).

I considered the Torc of the Titans for a while because the Paladin requires some damage (as well as the Brute Gauntlets), but the melee damage given by the Bard is considerable enough. I have my doubts regarding Gauntlets of Ogre Power since the Paladin is one level away from Bull's Strength. Also considered Armbands of Might but the character requires Power Attack to make it work, which it doesn't have currently.

Of the rest, I might consider the Quicksilver Boots if only because it allows swift action movement whenever necessary. Vanguard Treads are also nice because it provides very useful movement. Of the crystals, none can be used because the Paladin only has a masterwork battleaxe (and hasn't considered exchanging it, oddly enough: mostly because I wish to figure whether I want to try adding a custom Weapon of Legacy with it or merely await for a better weapon).


That hospitalar looks fantastic for a divine gish. full bab, and nine tenths spell casting progression, yes please.

Well, while it does offer such a boon, the Knight Hospitaller is heavily focused into healing, so unless you're not bothered by being a super-healer, there are equally better options (believe it or not!).


Oskar, I have a minor nitpick, in the ACF section you say Justicar and Anarch can take blade spirit, but they don't have Stand upon Adversity or Thrive in Pain so they can't take it. Is it intentional that they can't take it and you made an error in saying who can take it or are you trying to come up with a class feature to swap for it?

The latter. The Justiciar has the Persecution trait at 9th level, and the Anarch has the Random Leap ability at 9th level. Blade Spirit is gained at 4th level, so there's nothing thus far to replace those classes' 4th level ability. Thing is, I haven't decided whether I should replace those special abilities and make something for those classes similar to Stand Upon Adversity/Thrive in Pain, or whether I should just provide 4th level lesser versions of those abilities in order to enable replacements for them. Since I have yet to decide, so far it seems like they can't replace it, but once I figure some way to deal with that, I'll definitely deal with it.

--

In other things...I decided to officially attempt the Project Heretica Paladin with the core 3.5 rules, to see how it works. I used it on a last battle for a player that helped me playtest a lot during summer (the archfamous Half-Giant Fighter), but with a different set of characters.

In this case, the Paladin was a former PC (much like the Warmage, and ironically both were played by the same person), thus I finally have the chance to pull off playtesting with point buy. The Paladin I converted to this retool has the following stats: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16. Because of the houserule I implemented of doubling ability score increases every 4 levels, the Paladin ends up with Strength 16. For feats, the Paladin has Least Mark of Sentinel (Protection from Arrows; originally it had Shield of Faith), Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, and Lesser Mark of Sentinel (Lesser Globe of Invulnerability). The Paladin has a +1 longsword and a +1 full plate, so it has a reasonable +13 bonus to attack rolls and AC 22.

The battle was against a group of Inspired, comprised of four enforcers and a telepath. The remainder of the group was a Gray Elf Wizard and a Warforged Spirit Lion Barbarian (going straight to Frenzied Berserker), so its quite the strong group. Alongside them were a group of three centaurs, which are part of the barbarian's tribe (long story short, the Barbarian wants to make his own tribe/horde). Thus, it wasn't even a challenge: one 8th level Wizard, one 7th level Barbarian, one 6th level Paladin and three 4 HD Centaurs versus a CR 5 Telepath and four CR 4 Lurkers (basically the Lurk, but retooled ;) ).

So, how it went? The Barbarian and the Wizard, as usual, went first (with the Wizard using Nerveskitter to definitely go first). Being wary of crossbowmen (I usually bug him by mentioning they ready a crossbow shot at him before he even casts a spell, and last time such crossbowmen almost took him down), he casted Wind Wall but was scared of using Celerity to take some enemies down. The Barbarian was trying to gauge the situation, so he made a ready action in case someone went nearby. The Lurkers were next, so they decided to disable the Barbarian and his allies by casting Entangling Ectoplasm, which affected two of the Centaurs and the Barbarian (I assumed they auto-augmented the powers, and with 12 PP they had little problem with it; thus, a simple 1st level power neutralized the main battle tactic of the Barbarian (Pounce, of course) and also the centaurs.

The Paladin went next, and figuring the Psion could be dangerous, delivered a solid Charging Smite. Between the 3 points of Strength, the 6 points of smite, and the +1 of the weapon, that was at least 10 points of assured damage; with the roll, it was enough to one-shot the Psion, but I made sure the Psion would survive for another day (11 HP isn't really something I'd recommend, and that's how the Eberron Campaign Setting built the iconic Inspired). The Telepath, of course, tried to protect herself using Concealing Amorpha, but was still at the mercy of the Paladin.

Next turn, the Wizard used a Scorching Ray to attempt taking down two of the Lurkers (bless Psionic Body!), and both were easily hit. The Barbarian, trying to disable a pair of Lurkers instead of slaying them, used one of his "patented" (pending, of course) blend of alchemical items: a Noxious Smokestick mixed with an Alchemist's Fire and an Oil flask. The idea is to throw that weapon against a single enemy, dealing Alchemist's Fire damage, plus turning the oil on AND causing a 20 ft. cloud of noxious smoke; this time, the weapon was thrown away in order to create the smoke cloud in an attempt to nauseate them. Only one of the Lurkers was nauseated, after all, but it was strong enough to delay what I felt was the inevitable. One of the Lurkers drew near the Wizard in an attempt to take him down, but only managed to deliver meager damage; another tried to weaken the Barbarian's great axe (but mostly failed), and another tried to deliver a strike against one of the Centaurs (requiring an Adrenaline Boost to hit). The Paladin threatened to slay the Psion if they didn't lower their weapons, and because they didn't, he made a full attack against her, effectively killing her. The Centaurs drew towards the Lurkers making yet another excellent job (including one critical hit from a Large longsword).

The third round was spent having the Barbarian, even with rage, failing to hit one of the Lurkers with a full attack fueled by Power Attack (couldn't hit an AC of 19, oddly enough), while the Wizard tried to take them down using the Fiery Burst reserve feat (which was weak because he didn't have prepared a higher level Fire spell). The Lurkers, trying to take the Barbarian down, attempted a synchronized flanking strike, using a Lurker Augmentation to daze the barbarian (and Warforged gain no immunity to daze, that as much I checked). The barbarian oddly enough ignored BOTH sneak attacks (damn fortification!) but failed both Will saves (even with rage!), so he was dazed for 6 rounds. The Paladin, watching as how the Barbarian was effectively taken down, made yet another charging smite, which not only provoked some serious damage, but forced a bull rush (and thus, the Centaur was capable of making an attack of opportunity, which killed the second Lurker. The Centaurs mauled the remaining Lurkers, ending the battle.

Thus, what I learned from a different take on the Paladin? Here's what:
Charging Smite is pretty powerful when you use it correctly. Enabling a bull rush against the right character makes for increased damage, which makes this ACF formidable with more melee characters.
Using point-buy for the Paladin really makes a difference. Compare having one stat at 16 to TWO stats at 16, and the slight difference that Strength can do.
The lack of aura of Devotion isn't yet notable, but having characters with lower AC not taking advantage of a bonus to AC really smarts.
Vigor is pretty funny. Unlike Healing Hymn, which only affects healing spells, having Healing Belts heal an extra 8 points of damage further improves the benefit of this very useful item, something I've always poked my players into getting. If the Warblade manages to return, he'll like watching how his Crusader's Strike (gained through Martial Study in preparation for Eternal Blade) heals for more, just because the Paladin is nearby...

I do have bad news, though. My playtests will take a rest for perhaps an entire month, so I have reliably info between levels 3-7, which means I'll need someone who can deliver some extra playtest info. I'll see whether I can integrate Blackguards, Justiciars and Anarchs into the game, in order to fully test all possibilities. It's a shame I couldn't test the mount ACF, but I'll see when I have the chance. Thus, there are no questions or comments for a good while, except a request for more playtesting. I really feel comfortable with the project if only because the retool has resulted with a significantly boosted class, but I'd feel a bit more comfortable playtesting it with a Wizard and a Barbarian optimized for battle (and probably a Warblade as well, to test how it compares, assists or overwhelms a martial adept).

[Cieyrin]

You can use Least weapon crystals with Masterwork weapons. :smallwink:

Also, I think you have to enchant your weapon to +1 before you can found a Legacy with it.

Nice playtest data, though it's sad to see the project on hold for time being. :smallfrown:

[erikun]

I've only read the first post, but felt it'd be useful to leave a couple of comments for now.

First, the Improved Smite (Stunning) ability at 5th level has the unusual scenario of an opponent under Freedom of Movement is immune to the smite when failing a save, yet end up stunned when succeeding their save. Thus, you have the odd situation of the Paladin attacking an opponent in the hopes that the actually make their saving throw.

Second, you'd need to be an 11th level Paladin or higher for the "paladin level -5 as effective initiator levels" to be of any real use. Otherwise, you'd be better off with just taking half the Paladin level as effective initiator levels.

[Gideon Falcon]

Some thoughts:

The Divine Deterrence ability is a bit awkward. The Caster Level check DC quickly becomes impossible to overcome unless your CL is several levels higher than the Paladin, yet anyone who can overcome it takes no penalty for targeting your friends. Contrast this to the Divine Punishment ability, which automatically damages the attacker, but does not cause the attack to fail.

The Champions might get bonuses to intimidate outright, possibly with an additional skill as per alignment, such as sense motive with Justiciar and Paladin and Bluff with Anarch and Blackguard.

Unyielding Resolve basically grants immunity to nonlethal damage; You don't take any penalties for having, say, infinite nonlethal damage.

What is the exact reason why Detect Evil has been removed?

You might grant Shield Other as an SLA, as well as give a few abilities to help with mobility when armored.

Paladins need immunity to Compulsion. Does it make sense for them to be puppeteered by their enemies?

Possible ACF: Smite uses return to daily, but gain extra uses equal to your charisma modifier. In return, the smite deals 1d6 damage per Paladin level, and possibly grant more smite options.

The abilities that double and triple the damage instead grant a +2 bonus per die,+4 if it would triple, +6 if it would quadruple, and so on.

As an alternative that, one might make the base smite deal 1d4 per level and half the extra damage per die from doubling and tripling and such.

[T.G. Oskar]

Some thoughts:

The Divine Deterrence ability is a bit awkward. The Caster Level check DC quickly becomes impossible to overcome unless your CL is several levels higher than the Paladin, yet anyone who can overcome it takes no penalty for targeting your friends. Contrast this to the Divine Punishment ability, which automatically damages the attacker, but does not cause the attack to fail.

This is a bit hard to tackle, but here goes:
Deterrence is intentionally hard to bypass by design; while Divine Punishment effectively punishes the attacker, Divine Deterrence stops outright the offending enemy's spell. Originally it was a Concentration check, which was too easy to bypass, so I went for other options. Eventually, I went for caster level check because it was the hardest to improve, and because it essentially meant a more offensive method of spell resistance as an aura provided to all allies. Because of how it's meant to work (as an aura-wide spell resistance for allies that has a kicker effect), whenever it's bypassed, the effect works completely. That's the measure to reduce its overall power.

The reason I mention it's hard to tackle is because there's an equally valid argument for adding the same methodology of Divine Punishment of delivering damage regardless of whether the enemy bypasses the "spell resistance" or not.

Then again...not sure if my original intention was to deliver damage regardless of whether the main effect succeeds or not. I mean, a simple coma placed on the description effectively changes everything. In fact, checking the original description (which I have saved on my notes) supports that idea: the spellcaster takes damage regardless of the success of the action (but takes less damage).


The Champions might get bonuses to intimidate outright, possibly with an additional skill as per alignment, such as sense motive with Justiciar and Paladin and Bluff with Anarch and Blackguard.

The first level of Strive Unto Adversity is merely a flavor bonus. Actual skill bonuses based on the progression of a class are better suited for Prestige Classes, which may make far better use from it than a regular class. Intimidate is a strong skill if used correctly (such as Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered), so giving it a straight bonus will make it outright brutal; a situational bonus seems better at 4th level.

Though, it gives me ideas on how to deal with the Justiciar and the Anarch. At least with the Anarch and Bluff, that is.


Unyielding Resolve basically grants immunity to nonlethal damage; You don't take any penalties for having, say, infinite nonlethal damage.

This one doesn't seem that clear. You mean whether Unyielding Resolve no longer gives you penalties for having (aleph-null) non-lethal damage or that taking absurd amounts of non-lethal damage gives you no penalties?

If it's the former, do note that a straight reading still makes the Paladin go unconscious (the ability negates being disabled because of negative lethal damage and staggered) for excess of non-lethal damage. Which relates to the latter; a large amount of nonlethal damage places you at considerable risk of a coup-de-grace, quite probably the worst penalty of them all.


What is the exact reason why Detect Evil has been removed?

It functions better as a Paladin spell rather than a spell-like ability. The flavor is excellent (it allows you to sense evil intent, which was the original idea of the Paladin), but if what I've read of some DMs protesting about it is right, not everyone appreciates it. The indiscriminate use of Detect Evil was what built the vision of the Paladin as a smiter rather than a champion of good (because pinging as evil while using the ability often served as an excuse to smite), and also served to ruin carefully constructed villains and made Sense Motive a bit pointless except to avoid lies (and after that, you have Discern Lies and Zone of Truth to counteract all except Glibness). Thus, while a skill with great flavor, it caused a bit more harm than good. Existing as a spell still allows the Paladin access to it if necessary (as well as Detect Chaos), but limits it to the Paladin's spell slots, so it's slightly more balanced than the norm. Thus, Merciful (and the Justiciar's mirror ability) take the job of Detect Evil as a class feature.


You might grant Shield Other as an SLA, as well as give a few abilities to help with mobility when armored.

Shield Other (and the area version of it, Glory of the Martyr) are Paladin spells, so it's mostly the same as Detect Evil; furthermore, considering how the abilities are organized, it'd be hard to add any new ability (every level, as far as I can recall, has a special ability that can either stand on its own or has a set of abilities that are strong enough in their own right).

As for issues of mobility...while a reasonable suggestion, it suffers the same problem as the above ability; while the Paladin doesn't have a proper increase in speed by means of a spell (unless you consider Footsteps of the Divine), the way the abilities are organized doesn't allow for a series of abilities to be added in order to deal with the mobility issues, some of which can be dealt with using Mithral armor.


Paladins need immunity to Compulsion. Does it make sense for them to be puppeteered by their enemies?

This issue is quite similar to the reasons why I was convinced to drop the immunities on the Paladin. Essentially: the Paladin has ways to get his saves unusually high, so topping that with immunities (and specifically situational immunities) doesn't allow them to use their forte. That, and remember that Protection from Evil (a single 1st level spell) can block the same compulsions that worry you, not to mention Magic Circle against Evil doing the same for your party (in close distance). So Paladins technically have immunities to compulsions, and a high resistance to them on the other hand. Granting them immunities to compulsion, no matter how reasonable the idea is, paves the way to return them their old immunities to fear and diseases, which largely reduces their need for a strong Will save, something they already have. Also, the Paladin as-is can be pretty hard to beat, so it needs a "chink in the armor", so to speak. I just don't see why I should add it when there are options to deal with it, the most important being improving your saves on the first place (the last line of defense for compulsions).


Possible ACF: Smite uses return to daily, but gain extra uses equal to your charisma modifier. In return, the smite deals 1d6 damage per Paladin level, and possibly grant more smite options.

The abilities that double and triple the damage instead grant a +2 bonus per die,+4 if it would triple, +6 if it would quadruple, and so on.

As an alternative that, one might make the base smite deal 1d4 per level and half the extra damage per die from doubling and tripling and such.

Some people have given me that idea several times, but I seem to have an aversion regarding seeing that amount of damage on a smite. Can't fully explain why, but maybe it's the repulsion of watching how the Paladin often becomes a form of "burst DPS" what really shuns me from those options (a reason why, despite currently being the best option for a Paladin, I can't seem to stomach the Ubercharger, even if I delivered the options for one to be created). Smite as an encounter ability makes the rider effects stand out; if you return the effects to daily, no amount of damage can compensate for the loss of actual defusing potential, since you'll have slightly more uses per day (equal to your Charisma modifier) but you'll seek to save them for important moments unless the DM delivers less but more dangerous battles. The way smite works allows it to be used as part of an attack of opportunity and even as part of a full attack action (at any part of the attack, so it can be used as your second or third attack if necessary), and it leads the Paladin into reinforcing his regular attacks rather than his smites (I mean, if the Paladin was a Half-Giant wearing a Fullblade, that smite would finish battles in a single stroke; likewise a Paladin with a Greatsword and 18+ Strength; the reason why the Paladin deals so little damage is because his Strength is low and because he uses a one-handed weapon).

Now, being an ACF might probably work (I can see it working better that way), but there lies the problem of exactly how that "concentrated Smite" would work. Would it be the same as the traditional Smite (daily uses, part of a standard action only) except for the increased damage and the rider effects, or would it work as the current smite except for the daily uses (hence, working as a modifier to a single attack per round)? What exactly would be those other rider effects to justify having the smite return to a daily basis? The idea of providing increasing gains to the Smites (and the further modification of expanding the choices of smiting) was meant to make the ability more useful than it currently is (because raw damage really doesn't cut it considering the alignment restriction), and even then it still requires encounter uses for the entire ability to be useful.

There's the idea of what a daily class ability should be, as well. No matter the amount of damage you deal, a daily class ability should be as powerful, if not more, than Rage or a spell. If it's as powerful as Rage, then the mentioned uses would be justified; if it's as powerful as a spell, 1~5+Cha mod uses might not suffice, since you'd be limited by day; with a good Charisma, that means one use per encounter, but at 5th level that becomes six uses per four encounters instead of the current two uses per encounter (8 uses per four encounters, and more based on the amount of encounters per day). As I mentioned on the commentary to Smite Evil, while I don't agree on calling such ability as "smite", the idea that Paizo used for their Paladin really DOES fit what a daily ability should be, if only because the effect lasts for the length of the encounter or up until the enemy is defeated. It just doesn't work as a smite, rather than as a "mark".

I MIGHT consider making that improved smite so as long as I get a good pitch for it; basically, a further explained idea on how that concentrated Smite would work aside from the pitch of "more damage, less uses". As you mentioned, the rider effects would have to be different (probably more powerful) or you'll end up with a weapon-based Evocation-like effect, which on the grand scale of things really doesn't justify a daily restriction. Consider the reserve feats or Eldritch Blast, which deal a fraction of the effect AND have a rider effect sometimes (Eldritch Blast, mostly) and they're at-will abilities, and you might figure why the idea needs a better pitch.

[T.G. Oskar]

Nor rain, nor wind, nor lightning, nor atmospherical conditions called Emily can stop me from delivering an unexpected bout of playtesting! Thus, the Paladin can act once again, and if the stars are right, there may be one more bout of playtesting before summer's over.

So, what did we did today?

The first of the battles was a DM's special...and I decided to make a naval battle, using the Stormwrack rules. I will admit, while I need to read a bit more of it, it's hard to make sense of the Shipwreck rules. For starters, I had to improvise the durability of a House Lyrandar elemental galleon, which I equated to that of a galley. Then, I had to figure out the idea about sections and stuff, which I managed to figure out later on. The other boat (a caravel) held over 100 skeletons, all of them 7th level rogues with extremely poor weaponry (only a scimitar and a chain shirt, of course) which were attempting to board the elemental galleon. The warmage was the MVP of the match in here, where a single Fireball spell took several of the skeletons in a single blast (yes, the same skeleton rogues) with a single burst.

However, of the 100 rogues, only about 30 survived, and of those only 26 boarded the galleon. The Fighter, now deprived of his Fullblade, had to fight with a warhammer but still managed to deal several bits of damage, given how damage reduction was working. The Bard began to sing, and used Cure Moderate Wounds offensively. The skeletons were fighting under concealment. So, what did our Paladin chose to do?

Well, he tried Turn Undead, of course. That, and also...well, he attempted something odd. Real odd.

Regarding Turn Undead, from the first 6 skeletons who climbed the galleon, the Paladin could only affect one. This is mostly a problem from the ability itself, not the class; however, the Paladin was pretty close to affect two skeletons with the same use. The second attempt wasn't successful, with the attempt unable to affect the undead by 1 hit dice.

As for the odd thing...well, the Paladin uses a Tower Shield as a defensive tool, so I decided to attempt something I saw on DDO and something he's not meant to do: use the Tower Shield as a 2-handed weapon by applying a shield bash. I ruled the weapon dealt 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage, and that it had to be used with two hands (thus, it can't be used with a weapon, but it can be used without one), but that it allowed adding 1.5 times his Strength modifier (14 at the moment). Since he only has a battleaxe as a weapon, that was a rather nice way to deal with a two-handed offensive variant (despite the attack penalty), and alongside a smite attempt made for a reasonable way to deal quite a bit of damage. Still, it was the Divine Punishment which really made the day for everyone, dealing several points of damage alongside the Shieldmate/aura of Devotion tactic that essentially caused the otherwise challenging battle to be a veritable joke (I mean, the Paladin was the only one that took damage, and that was because of stealing that damage from the Fighter!!). He also supported the Warmage by buffing her with Shield of Faith, since the skeletons were getting near her. With a smite and a Lay on Hands, the Paladin could slay about two undead, while the Fighter once again obliterated the skeletons with a judicious use of full attacks and Cleave.

The second battle was a duo of Kuo-Toa monks with a Kuo-Toa cleric. The monks, of course, were the way to playtest the newest, as of yet unreleased version of the retooled Monk. The build already had Wis 20, so having those unarmed strikes hit with a +12 bonus to attack rolls and 1d8+6 to damage rolls (Wis to attack and damage rolls, plus an effective enhancement bonus of +1 to the same rolls). Thus, to hit the Fighter (which without the Paladin's formidable AC bonus), the Monk had to roll a 10. Yes, a 10. Oh, and because they had blindsense and the ability to have temporary blindsight (which they applied before attacking), they feared no miss chances due to the concealment). The only reason why they were slain was because of having 4 levels in Monk, compared to the 7 levels of the Paladin and the Monk. Of course, I really wanted to test the Monk in that one, so the Paladin mostly provided the same bonus (and failed on his only smite attempt, but made his first full attack bonus!! ...Though he failed on both rolls; blame my rolls and the rather high AC of the Monks for that). The Kuo-Toa cleric had terrible spells chosen (well, it HAD Bestow Curse and Divine Power, but the feats were quite odd AND the rest of the spells were pretty off), but his unique aura allowed the monks to gain extra bonuses to attack and damage rolls, and allowing them cheap shots if they died. Maybe it's because no monsters really buff off before battle (the Kuo-Toa monks had a potion of Shield of Faith +3 that would have granted them a +3 to AC, though as I could see they needed also Mage Armor AND Shield potions to work effectively). The Fighter had VERY lucky rolls, between 15 to 19, with which he passed all DC 18 Will saving throws that prevented him from being stunned or cursed (and I REALLY wanted to curse him...) Also, I could test the Damage Reduction alteration, which reduced considerably the damage taken by them from the Fighter.

So, what could we learn today?
Turn Undead definitely sucks around these levels, mostly because the Paladin could only affect a fraction of the skeletons even with the lucky turning check. Turn Undead NEEDS to be fixed.
Lay on Hands can be pretty brutal against undead creatures. 39 points may not seem as much; 65 on a single blow does, however. Unfortunately, this wasn't a single undead, but many; thus, while the Paladin could take about two undead creatures with a divided pool of Lay on Hands, not exactly over 20.

The uncanny defeat of 26 CR 7 skeletons caused the Paladin to gain one level, so the Paladin is level 8 now. This not only opens Mettle (which may see some use now), but also opens 2nd level spells. I decided to add 2 points to Strength (remember that one of my houserules is providing 2 points worth of ability score increases), and the ability to cast Air Walk and Resist Energy. Alongside with Haste, the ability to have the way to attack in the air (or provide the Fighter with such) will definitely assist the group further. By the way, the chosen item was an Unicorn Pendant, so the Paladin can cast Neutralize Poison if necessary and treat himself as a character of 4 points of Charisma higher for purposes of Lay on Hands.

Some extra changes and houserules I need to mention:
I think I mentioned the standard attack action and full attack action changes, in which a standard attack action allows you to use your iteratives so as long as you have the right amount of levels in Fighter or effective Fighter levels. A full attack action does what it usually does, but all attack are treated as if having the highest attack bonus.
Cleave can be used once per round, plus one more time per round based on effective Fighter levels. That means the Fighter could make two cleave attempts on the same round. Great Cleave still exists, but the benefit is strikingly different (think War Mind...)
Charge not only provides a bonus to attack rolls when you have Fighter levels; you also add the bonus to damage rolls. Also, the bonus increases based on effective Fighter levels; the Fighter gains a+4 to attack and damage rolls with a single charge attempt.
Feint is now a move action, and is a different opposed roll.

So, as usual: comments? Questions?

I need to clear something about the changes to feint. Basically, feint can be used as a move action (so you can move and then attack), and a successful feint causes you to become flat-footed for one round (instead of a single attack). However, I found a bit of problems with how feint is organized currently; basically, the opposed roll is based on the offender's attack bonus against the defender's Sense Motive check. The two times the Fighter tried to feint the enemy, it ALWAYS succeeded, because using his attack bonus meant he used the bonus from Weapon Focus, the enhancement bonus of his weapon, and the bonus from Inspire Courage, so he had a +6 on top of his huge BAB and Strength bonus. The Fighter used Feint and Sunder (on the unarmed strikes of the Monks) to attempt to disable them and deal them damage on the same time, which he managed to use as a brutal tactic (excellent because the Fighter IS using Feint and Sunder, but he found a way to deal an attack vs AC 10 pretty much).

Thus, I want to work a bit with how Feint and Sunder works. Lemme explain a bit on how the houserules work:
Feint: feinting in battle is visually appealing, but evidently frustrating. There is not much reason to feint in battle, since it requires a standard action and it only allows to ignore the opponent's Dexterity modifier to Armor Class for one attack. Feint, thus, should be made more attractive, while at the same time useful for the common warrior.
First, a feint takes only a move action; it is, after all, a moving gesture to mislead the opponent. Thus, it allows the character to attack afterwards (and allows martial characters to take advantage of their iteratives!).
Second, the opposed roll changes: the feinting character must make an attack roll, and the opposing character must succeed on a Sense Motive check; if the feint succeeds, the creature is flat-footed for one round. This effect should make Sense Motive a more important skill, and allows the warrior to depend less on Bluff.
The problem lies when the attack bonus of the offender is a +17, and the Sense Motive bonus is a +10. The +17 is without the bonuses provided by Inspire Courage but does apply the bonus from Weapon Focus and the weapon's enhancement bonus. The attack bonus can scale just as quick as the Sense Motive check, forcing you in many ways to have Sense Motive maxed out, and if you don't have Sense Motive, you're screwed.

I still want to use the "attack bonus vs. Sense Motive" idea, but a bit less intensive; thus, I intended to make it BAB + a specific modifier (probably Dex or Int?) vs. Sense Motive check. However, it still holds the same problems, except this time maxing Sense Motive is much easier. An alternative is sought after, one that doesn't rely on Bluff but that doesn't rely on AC either. It should be something that makes sense in terms of how a warrior may use a feint, since even the heaviest armored character has the skill to pull off a feint, and if based on BAB, the Fighter will try to pull off a feint for the Rogue to deliver sneak attacks freely.

Sunder: the misunderstood ability, because nobody wants their weaponry broken. It is time-consuming, and it destroys the most valuable asset to an adventurer: their loot. Thus, how can sunder be made more effective? Enter the replacement for actually breaking the weapon: disabling it.
Sunder works a bit different than usual: you make an attack (just as if you were making an attack, hence you don’t provoke attacks of opportunity), but instead of attacking the character, you attack one part of its equipment. The attack is considered a touch attack (you’re not damaging the character but its equipment), and thus only the Dexterity bonus to Armor Class and other non-armor, non-shield, non-natural armor bonuses to AC apply. Then, the character deals damage, which is reduced by the item’s hardness, and the amount of damage not ignored by hardness goes to the hit points of the item. If the item’s hit points reach zero, the item is disabled.
So…disabled? That means the item cannot be used until it is repaired. Technically, it is “broken” but not to the point of “destroyed”. A weapon cannot deal damage, armor cannot protect, a shield is too worn to provide a bonus to AC, and so forth. Unlike the original sunder, this also applies to natural attacks: if the sunder attempt succeeds, the creature takes damage as normal and may not use the natural weapon for 1d4 rounds. It can also be used to reduce natural armor: the weapon damage (and enhancement bonuses) applies to the creature’s natural armor bonus (as a penalty) and the Strength bonus (or Dexterity bonus, along any other bonuses to damage) apply to the creature, and the natural armor is reduced in potency by 1d4 rounds. Once a sunder attempt succeeds against a natural weapon or natural armor bonus, it may not be attempted again until the penalty wears off (any attempts to sunder the creature result in normal damage in that case). For natural weapons and natural armor, the sunder attempt is a normal attack roll, not a touch attack roll. Sunder can be done as a replacement for a melee attack (either as part of an iterative attack or as part of a full attack action). Creatures cannot make sunder attempts with natural weapons (except for monks, who may sunder with their unarmed strikes).
One thing I forgot to mention to my player was that he needed to pull off an actual attack roll instead of a touch attack, so it's my bad. I pre-empted myself on that.
However, dealing with unarmed strikes brought a slight problem. Unarmed strikes are treated as both manufactured and natural weapons in the case of Monks, but a Monk may do an unarmed strike with anything. How to make this reasonable, in case you want to use Sunder to halt a Monk's unarmed strike, or the unarmed strike of an unarmed Swordsage? Also, I decided to make sunder against natural attacks to be better, so I made attacking natural attacks deliver normal damage and disable the weapon, which I saw was a bit excessive. Mind telling me ideas on how to expand sunder to allow disabling natural weapons and armor but not make it an exploit?

[drakir_nosslin]

Unless stated otherwise, a paladin deals an amount of extra damage equal to her paladin level. As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + half the paladin’s class level + the paladin’s Strength modifier. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, smite evil has no effect but the ability is not used for the day.


Copypasta? Or did I miss something?

[T.G. Oskar]

Copypasta? Or did I miss something?

Probably not, since that tidbit wasn't on the original smite. Then again, it just might. Good to see that there are things I need to fix.

Speaking of which: the final results for the summer season playtesting are here, and...much to my dismay, the Paladin seemingly fails to deliver. Sure, the Paladin was a bit back regarding its stats (both the Fighter and the Bard, as well as the Warmage DMPC were using 32 point buy, while the Paladin was using elite array), but the stuff the Paladin could do for the moment was less than inspiring. The only thing that really, really saves the day is the Stunning Smite, which is extremely useful when correctly applied. Examples are as follows:

The first battle, against a giant squid, was far too little of a challenge. The Warmage basically ended the bout with one spell (Lightning Bolt with her Warmage Edge), and the Bard cheap-shotted the critter with a shot from hiding (since the little fella has Sneak Attack from a few levels in Rogue). Thus, little can be said about that one.

The second battle was against a pair of 5th level rogues alongside a 5th level Fighter boarding the ship. The enemies were at one ship, the party at another, and the chasm in-between was of 30 feet. The Paladin, finally able to cast 2nd level spells, prepared by using Air Walk and take benefit of the difference, but of course the boarders decided to lurch ahead using ropes to assist their Jump checks (I didn't roll for them, so I assumed they moved automatically using them). This obviated the need for Air Walk, since they were already there, so the Paladin moved and attacked one of the duo, assisted by the Bard's song. For the first time in the entire campaign, the Paladin FINALLY pulled off a successful critical hit, which with the battleaxe's x3 crit multiplier meant he finally did reasonable damage. This, of course, is pointless because the Fighter already can pull off that damage without criticals. The Fighter made little work of the other two, and the Warmage was really focused on taking the ship down, so there were no more boarders moving around.

The third battle, the "boss" battle of the campaign thus far, was against a group of Inspired lurk(er)s, Psychic Warriors and a single 8th level psion (the group is already 8th level, and the rest of the enemies were 6th level). The group decided to await until everyone could move in order to strike, so the Paladin used Magic Weapon to make his axe work better (at least add 1 point of damage, gee whiz...), and then wait until anyone got near. This wasn't so crucial as the Warmage was played as it should, and basically held all enemies at bay, with those few that escaped getting slaughtered by the Fighter. The Paladin, of course, aware that one of the Psychic Warriors had escaped the Warmage's spells, moved into that direction and intercepted him in case he got to move and attack, delivering a failed smite attempt (partly because my rolls when using the NPCs are abysmal). The Warmage made short work of that enemy, with a well-landed Orb of Electricity. The Paladin then moved around the Warmage's Stinking Cloud, and readied an action with a javelin to strike the nauseated Psion in case it made any movement. The Fighter basically ended the Psion anyways...

...or so they thought, because the Psion had a trick up its sleeve. Since it was going to be the last battle and the Fighter held an item of legacy which forced the wielder to "slay a quori with a Challenge Rating equal to his level or higher" (and not just any quori, an Inspired "apostle", since the character is molded to be Guts from Berserk but on Eberron and using the Quori as if the demons, with himself as a half-giant), the Psion became an incarnated Quori (the real boss battle of the session). The Quori began its turn by dealing Wisdom damage to the Fighter and dazing him for 5 rounds, almost taking him out of battle. Thus, the Warmage, the Bard and the Paladin had to deal short work out of it, and of course this was the moment in which Stunning Smite shone. The extra damage (of which part of it was returned because of the Quori's innate empathic feedback ability) wasn't much, but the stunning attempt was just enough to allow the Bard to daze him using a Pearl of Brain Lock they acquired long ago (as actual random loot, actually!) for three rounds. Thus, the remaining rounds were played trying to soften the Quori enough for the Fighter to deliver the last strike when he woke up, and since the Fighter could kill him in one blow, I decided to make it special with the Paladin "channeling" his remaining smite through his weapon, just for the cinematics (not the mechanics of movement; the cinema feel).

Still, although the Fighter IS optimized for heavy damage, I feel quite disappointed by the Paladin's damage output. I'm quite sure that if he had a Greatsword he could deal quite a lot more damage, even with Strength 16 (that's about 4 extra points, quite distant from the Fighter's +15 to damage), but everything would have added up more and more. With Power Attack, the Fighter can deal up to 33 points of damage on a single blow, while the Paladin can only deal similar damage through double the smite damage through Improved Smite (which has been altered, actually). That's the only quibble I have, because otherwise the Paladin has been quite effective on tanking (soaking up the damage of others, providing a sizeable bonus to AC enough to equal the Paladin's conservative 25 AC, and even adding to the Reflex saves), and the Paladin could use some more damage.

Aside from that startling realization (which should have been obvious), I find the Paladin could use a bit more buffing. Thus far, it can do the tanking job well (through soaking the damage of others and using attacks of opportunity to halt enemies on their tracks) and healing outside of combat (and in the case of INSIDE combat, the Paladin's lay on hands is quite formidable), but nothing about the damage output. The spells are a nice touch, but the battles thus far haven't help the buffing; the Warmage can do well with her buffing because Haste is really meant to take the first round of combat and the Bard's Inspire Courage song as well, but the Paladin can't afford to start combat by casting Magic Weapon or Shield of Faith, instead having to cast them at the beginning of a dungeon or so. I recognize that through playstyle, because I tend to incline towards one battle per one-two days, instead of dungeon delving (this party hasn't really been taken into an actual dungeon since the beginning of the session, so it's natural to see the party going nova most of the time). Furthermore, the rest of the party has had more magic items than the Paladin; he had a +1 full plate armor and a masterwork tower shield when he began, and through the campaign he improved it into a +1 full plate of displacement and a +1 tower shield respectively. He also gained through the campaign a healing belt, two scrolls, a cloak of resistance +1, a bronze spellguard ring (which he gained from the Warmage), a unicorn pendant, and from the last battle a greatreach bracers, while the Warmage has seven magic items (amongst them three of the seven items from the Seven Veils set), the Fighter already has a gauntlets of ogre power, a +1 fullblade (which is gonna turn now into a weapon of legacy) and greatreach bracers from the midst of the campaign, and the Bard has just as many items (arcanist's gloves, vest of resistance, boots of dragon striding, a healing belt, an efficient quiver, a bag of holding, a periapt of Wisdom +2 with a +7 competence bonus to Perform checks) as the Warmage, without counting what they got right now. Thus, while I can consider the weight of the magic items, I can't really shake off the little damage he deals, and this will by extension reflect on the rest of the Divine Champions.

Thus, I have a proposal to make: the best way is to add an extra bit of damage right from the start, where it matters the most, and of course that means I'm gonna add Charisma to damage. However, I'll limit its application: the Charisma damage will apply ONLY if you wear a shield, so that the Paladin deals reasonable damage both WITH a shield or without (with the shield adding more AC and improving the auras, while the two-handed weapon serving as a way to deal slightly more damage). That, or adding Constitution; this allows the Paladin to focus on Cha as primary, allowing two-handed weapon users to focus on Strength while shield users focus on Constitution. The latter allows the Paladin to apply both secondary stats to its damage, while keeping the main stat as an optional that can be applied through either smite (as someone here pointed out) or through feats (Divine Might, for example). I'll plan to make this as follows:

Protector's Might (Ex): A (1st/2nd/3rd) level paladin may add her (Constitution/Charisma) modifier to all damage rolls when wielding a shield. If she wields a tower shield, she may add the modifier to her attack rolls as well.

1st-3rd is the right moment where the ability must appear, since the Paladin has to deal as much damage as fast as possible. Charisma or Constitution is explained above; Charisma is the better score, while Constitution is the score best fit for a shield-using Paladin, since it also improves the auras, which are further improved by the use of a magic shield. The tower shield bit is part of my reasoning; the Paladin had a reasonable to-hit bonus equal to his BAB + his Strength modifier + 1 from the masterwork battleaxe, but had the -2 penalty from the tower shield. This, while reasonable, caused lots of failures because my rolls often were lower than 10 (and at times, lower than 5), so the Paladin could hit once whereas the Fighter could hit twice, EVEN with the smite bonus. I could simply add Cha/Con to attack rolls from the beginning, but there are ways to make the attack bonus increase faster; this is mostly to reduce the penalties from wielding a tower shield and possibly wielding a Large one-handed weapon via Monkey Grip.

Ideally, this should allow the Paladin (and by definition, some of the other Divine Champions) to work better if they choose to use a shield, while allowing Paladins that wish to have better Strength to exploit it as natural. This also allows taking advantages to any effect that increases Strength, such as magic items (Gauntlets of Ogre Power or Belts of Giant's Strength) or spells (Bull's Strength). There's a proposal I attempt to work with Power Attack in that when you reach an effective Fighter level of 6 you permanently increase your Strength damage by 1.5 if you use a one-handed weapon, and double your Strength damage (instead of 1.5) when wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon in two hands. Since Power Attack is the "two-hander" classic feat and a way to deal more damage, I figured it was the best feat to apply this bonus as currently stands.

Aside from that: questions? Comments? It'll be some time before I can test the changes, but I really want to solve (if only somewhat) the damage problem of the Paladin as it stands, so that it may contribute more to combat than it already does (since being a standing bonus to AC and sucking up the damage really worked a lot, since even standing there doing nothing made him useful). I'm tempted to reduce the effective Fighter level of the Paladin to 3, since most of the feat fixes I've planned usually work at an effective Fighter level of 6th, which means the Paladin has to wait until 10th level to take advantage of them. This won't hurt the Fighter a bit, since he still can get the bonuses from level 6, but it affects those classes that are half-casters a lot because they need to wait until half of their careers to have that utility apply.

[T.G. Oskar]

So yeah, I decided to do a major clean-up and do some more modifications. This is what I did:

Added my suggestion of allowing shield-using Paladins their Charisma modifier to damage rolls, and attack rolls if using tower shields.
Refined the vocabulary regarding Paladin/martial adept multiclassing.
Added weapon-based benefits to the Blackguard's auras. Thus, a Blackguard wielding a two-handed weapon makes its auras far more dangerous.
Extended the modifications of the Paladin's smites and auras to all divine champions. All smite DCs are based on Strength modifier, all aura bonuses depend on Strength, Constitution or Charisma (leaving Anarch unchanged)
Translated the Pathfinder Paladin's "Smite Evil" into an ACF. It now works like a mark, sorta like the Paladin's Divine Challenge but offensively.
Minor fixes to organization.

I still have a few PrCs to post up, and I'm working on making a retool to the Holy Avenger (and some weapons that haven't appeared since AD&D 2nd Edition, not to mention some suits of armor).

[Ernir]

I have exactly one serious problem with the class. The stunning version of the Smite is just way too powerful.

At first level, enforcing a save vs. 1-round stun is pretty good - normally something that'd be reserved for a 2nd level spell, but whatever. Things are probably dying in one hit or so anyway.
It also bypasses undead immunity to stun. That's kind of unique, but whatever, undead are so annoying with their immunities anyway.
It also dazes on a successful save. This is where I went "WHAT!?!?". :smalleek:
Dazing someone without a saving throw (or in this case, on a failed saving throw) shouldn't be a first-level effect. It's in line with spells like Stun Ray, which is one of the better 7th level spells. As any optimizer will tell you, stun and daze are just about the worst conditions that can be inflicted upon a creature, and you're offering one of them regardless of the outcome of the saving throw... at first level. This isn't good.

The fifth level upgrade allows you to paralyze the creature on a failed saving throw, and stun it on a successful one. Pretty much the same, only now there's also the option of killing you via an ally's CdG if you fail the save.

At Paladin levels 6th, 11th, and so on, the duration increases. While one round of not doing anything is likely to cost you a battle, more than one round increases the chance exponentially (and this is not just a figure of speech). Still with no meaningful save. I do not know of a single ability in all of WotC D&D that, on a successful save, renders you stunned for more than one round. This begins at ECL 6.

The 15th level upgrade kills FoM as a defense against the paralysis, and allows the Smite to fail on a successful save. Oh, well.



I'm sorry if I come off as nonconstructive here, but it really looks like you vastly underestimated the value of action denial without regard for saving throw results.:smallfrown:

If you want to keep the possibility of Smite stunning, I'd suggest something like this instead:
Level 1: On a hit, save vs. stun. Undead are dazed instead. Save negates.
Level 5: On a hit, save vs. stun and paralysis (one save vs. both conditions. They overlap in action denial, but are different with respect to immunities and the magnitude of suck). Undead are dazed instead. Save negates.
Level 15: As the 5th level ability, but a successful save only reduces the duration of the conditions to one round, rather than negating them.
The duration (levels 1-5 one round, levels 6-10 two rounds, and so on) is probably fine if the saving throw results are meaningful.

[Cogidubnus]

I really like this. Might I ask you to spoiler the pictures though, it makes reading the text kinda hard when it's stretched to the width of the pictures.

I also approve of allowing shield-wielders to get bonuses, largely because sword-and-board is so unloved by DnD rules anyway.

A couple of things about the Justiciar. Firstly, the text doesn't actually say they only pick one Verdict, whereas the Paladin's does, so I assume the Justiciar ought to as well. Secondly, it might be helpful to define what you mean by "proven guilty" when using Verdicts. I mean, if I'm using one in Sharn in Eberron, a criminal can only be legally proven guilty if the Watch refer their case to a judge who then passes them on to trial by a 9-man jury, none of which is conducive to fast encounters xD judged guilty by the Justiciar might serve, with a note saying that the DM and player need to negotiate what this constitutes.

Ed: Oh, and one other thing. Outsider type and DR 10/Epic and opposite alignment as capstone abilities isn't very awe-inspiring. Totally defensive abilities rarely are. Another favourite paladin of mine, Gorgondantess' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160730), allows you to Smite all enemies and doubles your Smite against Evil enemies as a 20th-level ability, and that's with Smite adding Charisma bonus to attack rolls and Paladin level to damage on every attack against Evil creatures. Increasing all damage and penalties to opponents of opposite alignment and widening abilities to affect Neutral targets too would be nice.

Ed 2: Another thing about the Justiciar. Is it a prepared or a spontaneous caster, the text says two different things. I think spontaneous would be better.

[T.G. Oskar]

I have exactly one serious problem with the class. The stunning version of the Smite is just way too powerful.

At first level, enforcing a save vs. 1-round stun is pretty good - normally something that'd be reserved for a 2nd level spell, but whatever. Things are probably dying in one hit or so anyway.
It also bypasses undead immunity to stun. That's kind of unique, but whatever, undead are so annoying with their immunities anyway.
It also dazes on a successful save. This is where I went "WHAT!?!?". :smalleek:
Dazing someone without a saving throw (or in this case, on a failed saving throw) shouldn't be a first-level effect. It's in line with spells like Stun Ray, which is one of the better 7th level spells. As any optimizer will tell you, stun and daze are just about the worst conditions that can be inflicted upon a creature, and you're offering one of them regardless of the outcome of the saving throw... at first level. This isn't good.

The fifth level upgrade allows you to paralyze the creature on a failed saving throw, and stun it on a successful one. Pretty much the same, only now there's also the option of killing you via an ally's CdG if you fail the save.

At Paladin levels 6th, 11th, and so on, the duration increases. While one round of not doing anything is likely to cost you a battle, more than one round increases the chance exponentially (and this is not just a figure of speech). Still with no meaningful save. I do not know of a single ability in all of WotC D&D that, on a successful save, renders you stunned for more than one round. This begins at ECL 6.

The 15th level upgrade kills FoM as a defense against the paralysis, and allows the Smite to fail on a successful save. Oh, well.

I'm sorry if I come off as nonconstructive here, but it really looks like you vastly underestimated the value of action denial without regard for saving throw results.:smallfrown:

Oh, no; it's not like that. Any critique is constructive, and you didn't meant for it to be insulting. Still; I did consider the pros and cons of adding a rider effect with a lessened form of the main effect on a successful save.

Stunning Smite is essentially an improved form of Stunning Fist, an ability that a 1st level Monk has. It has three essential improvements over this ability: Cha to attack rolls makes the chances of landing the attack better (while the Monk depends on having a high attack roll to land it), the extra damage (between 1-5 points of damage at the first levels), and the daze-on-success effect (the issue in question). Of all three, the one that makes Stunning Smite far better than a Monk (or an unarmed combatant such as an Unarmed Swordsage) with Stunning Fist is the daze-on-success effect; the extra damage is not noticeable (perhaps at the first two levels, but right at the third the damage doesn't add up as much as using Power Attack with a two handed weapon), and the bonus to attack depends on having a secondary save high (which is a boon, but something the Monk should have had in order to reduce some of its MAD). We're speaking about two classes which have a history of MAD, although this form of the Paladin has a lesser degree of it (since the idea is that you could work well with two stats, while getting a solid benefit with the third).

Stunning Fist is considered to be universally weak, because of three things: first, it requires an attack roll. Second, it requires a saving throw. Third, if you're immune to stun, you're immune to the main effect. Too many hurdles for a 1-round stun have far too many cons outweighing the pros (essentially stopping an enemy dead for 1 round). Stunning Smite has ONE con that replaces one of those mentioned above; it requires the enemy to be evil in order to be affected. This merely alters the amount of enemies it can be affected (it adds undead, which are quite numerous at low levels) but it removes others (animals, for example, which are also quite numerous). If I were to remove the only advantage that Stunning Smite has over Stunning Fist, the smite would be by deference as weak as the feat because of comparison and contrast. But, let's keep your suggestion floating around.

At 5th level, Stunning Smite quite definitely leaves Stunning Fist in the dust. The monk can't do as much damage (or hit as well) as the Paladin, the stun turns into paralysis, and the "daze-on-success" turns into "stun-on-success". That much we can agree upon. But, by that level, spellcasters already have their save-or-dies around: Web, Stinking Cloud (nausea is just as bad as stun or daze, and has less penalties) and Hold Person (only works on humanoids, but otherwise it's only a saving throw). Adding Spell Compendium you can get stuff like Earthen Grasp, Ray of Dizziness and Nauseating Breath. All have their pros and cons, but generally their pros outweigh their cons: for example; Web doesn't stop your actions but causes a chance to interrupt your spells, Stinking Cloud can be evaded by succeeding on the save and moving around but blocks your line of sight, Ray of Dizziness only allows one action but only requires a ranged touch attack, Nauseating Breath is weaker than Stinking Cloud but affects an area just as large. The paladin is still limited to one evil creature, still requires to make its attack roll and hit (thus allowing miss chances to ignore this entirely), and if you fail you get stunned but immunity to stun applies (so you NEED the undead or evil construct to fail on their save or else they don't suffer the effect). The pros yet again outweigh the cons. Also; consider that while the earlier effect allows you to get stunned for 1 round for every five class levels if you fail the save just as the Tier 2 ability allows you to get paralyzed for the same range of rounds, the first ability counts as "rounded up" while the latter by RAW counts as "rounded down" (so a creature can only be paralyzed for 1 round). Furthermore, if the creature is somehow stunned by the successful save, it is only stunned for 1 round (not stunned for 1 round/5 class levels, rounded up; that as much I made sure on the playtest). It IS a vast improvement over the closest thing a martial character can do, but not as much as what a spellcaster can do.

At 15th level, all bets are meant to go off. Just as every optimizer can tell you that a stun fail/daze success is a bad idea, every optimizer can tell you that a ring of Freedom of Movement costs 40k gp, one-fifth of the WBL suggested by the books for a 15th level character (and probably accessible from earlier on). Freedom of Movement comes online at 9th level, so the Paladin retains all that power up until 10th level, and then the high AC, the high Fort saves and the chances of Freedom of Movement appearing reduce the benefit of the smite to what it was before: merely a damage increaser. That's 5-6 levels before the Paladin gets its comeback by ignoring the most common immunity and the most specific immunity. The Paladin NEEDS this to make their effect worthwhile, since Freedom of Movement bypasses daze, stun AND paralysis, so by 9th level a stunner's effectiveness drops staggeringly. I mean, it's at 10th level, when the casters get Freedom of Movement and the saves are high enough that the unarmed combatant "catches" up with Freezing the Lifeblood, which is hilariously limited; Monks "catch up" at 14th level, and few are crazy enough to take Monk all the level to 14th. Unarmed Swordsages won't have enough slots to take Freezing the Lifeblood up to 14th level and use them with their maneuvers; they don't care since they get Hand of Death as a 4th level maneuver, Shadow Noose delivers a weak stun effect but causes very strong damage, and White Raven Hammer auto-stuns and deals much more damage. All of those abilities are ignored through Freedom of Movement, so there MUST be something to ignore that immunity, because of ALL the abilities that effectively takes down.

Still, I can admit that it's TOO powerful. Or better yet; it's not working as intended. Blinding just as much; Blinding was meant to be an undead-slayer but also a deterrent against melee combatants, while the Stunning Smite was better for spellcasters because it halts them completely. Switching their saves wasn't really the best move. So, having said that, and with a need to fix the description...


If you want to keep the possibility of Smite stunning, I'd suggest something like this instead:
Level 1: On a hit, save vs. stun. Undead are dazed instead. Save negates.
Level 5: On a hit, save vs. stun and paralysis (one save vs. both conditions. They overlap in action denial, but are different with respect to immunities and the magnitude of suck). Undead are dazed instead. Save negates.
Level 15: As the 5th level ability, but a successful save only reduces the duration of the conditions to one round, rather than negating them.
The duration (levels 1-5 one round, levels 6-10 two rounds, and so on) is probably fine if the saving throw results are meaningful.

For starters, I'd switch Blinding Smite/Stunning Smite saves. Stun is now a Fort save, Blind is now a Will save (makes it a bit more distinctive). Thus, warriors can now block off stun.
Tier 1 (Level 1 effect): On a hit (first barrier), save vs. stun (second barrier). Undead are dazed. Save forces a Fort save vs. daze (third barrier). This causes three rolls (annoying, yes) but keeps the daze effect.
Tier 2 (Level 5 effect): On a hit (first barrier), save vs. paralysis (only one save). Undead and constructs are treated like stunned instead (the idea is to affect constructs as well, which have the same annoying penalties, in case those constructs are evil; the Retriever will be an annoying enemy for the Stunning Smite Paladin). Save causes a stun for 1 round (or maybe daze?), immunities apply.
Tier 3: Ignore/suppress Freedom of Movement and immunity to paralysis (this is annoying and I refuse to change it so as long as Freedom of Movement retains all its potential, regardless of the suggestions, because the last thing I'd hate is to have a worthless ability at 9th level because a spell blocks it out). Save causes stun for 1 round, immunities apply (this time it MUST be stun, no exceptions).

I could make a change for the Tier 3 ability, but I really need to make sure it's fair. I do consider a few spells have to be altered (Mind Blank, Protection from Evil, Freedom of Movement and Knock) so that they serve as "spell resistances" against the specified effects (and Knock as if an Open Lock roll with a benefit equal to your caster level), but I have to counter that annoying immunity because otherwise it makes little sense to progress Stunning Smite beyond 5th level (better go for Blinding or Resounding which get much more powerful).

While it would be easy to deal with Freedom of Movement as a specific action (a clause in which the paladin must roll a modified level check vs the Freedom of Movement effect in order to suppress it), immunity to paralysis will spell the doom of the ability, and while slightly scarcer, it is an immunity that will be annoying (specifically for Undead). The 15th level ability is already fighting against maneuvers that can easily outperform its utility (example: Ancient Mountain Hammer, with its average of 42 points of extra damage which can't be ignored by DR, or Rabid Bear Strike, or War Leader's Charge, or Castigating Strike...), so it needs to be competitive if anything else, but still something quite unlike a maneuver, so that it may be used more than once. I could consider the ideas, but if I end up with something that can be eventually blocked by a single spell or a simple immunity, then I wouldn't choose to gain the final Tier 3 ability when I could simply change it to the Tier 3 ability of the Blinding Smite (a disruption effect with scaling DC AND available to any used weapon) or Resounding Smite (Castigating Strike + Earthstrike Quake that bypasses normal Evasion and affects those with Improved Evasion, plus confusion). At least in the playtests Stunning Smite (which IS the type of smite the paladin is using) isn't as powerful as...well, the damage output of the Half-Giant Fighter or the Warmage with her Warmage Edge. The daze (now stun) is essentially the one way in which he can contribute with his allies.

I'd like to see the response to that, because while daze and stun ARE powerful abilities, nerfing it too much will make the Stun ability pointless except for the first few levels, something that's quite definitely NOT the intention.


I really like this. Might I ask you to spoiler the pictures though, it makes reading the text kinda hard when it's stretched to the width of the pictures.

I also approve of allowing shield-wielders to get bonuses, largely because sword-and-board is so unloved by DnD rules anyway.

A couple of things about the Justiciar. Firstly, the text doesn't actually say they only pick one Verdict, whereas the Paladin's does, so I assume the Justiciar ought to as well. Secondly, it might be helpful to define what you mean by "proven guilty" when using Verdicts. I mean, if I'm using one in Sharn in Eberron, a criminal can only be legally proven guilty if the Watch refer their case to a judge who then passes them on to trial by a 9-man jury, none of which is conducive to fast encounters xD judged guilty by the Justiciar might serve, with a note saying that the DM and player need to negotiate what this constitutes.

It should be as the rest: they choose one Verdict at 1st level, then either choose another Verdict at 5th level or improve their existing one, then they choose another Verdict at 10th, 15th and 20th levels, with the ability to improve a Tier 1 Verdict to a Tier 2 Verdict (and at 15th level, a Tier 2 Verdict to a Tier 3 Verdict).

Given that the Justiciar has no special ability to gauge if someone's a criminal, the Justiciar makes a blind Verdict within a city. Essentially, it is the decision of the DM whether the creature is affected or not; if not, the Justiciar does not lose the use of its Verdict. Ways to check on that would be to make a Gather Information check or essentially witness the crime in progress, even if the law wouldn't essentially prove him guilty (you ARE the law, hence you prove him guilty; you override the law in that one, but you're submit to it, so your Verdict would take effect, but you'd still have to take it to the law. Hence, the non-lethal damage trait). The main difference is that while a guard may be doubted, if YOU as the Justiciar claim the creature has committed a crime because you witnessed it violating a law and your Verdict struck true, the magistrates will have a supernatural reason to agree (the forces of Law themselves judged the criminal guilty). The moral alignment of the Justiciar may apply, as well as how much the Justiciar knows of the law; if he sees someone steal food, uses his Verdict and senses that it has failed (because the creature wasn't immobilized or doesn't feel physical pain), then the Justiciar may realize the creature did no wrong within that area, but may feel that violated something he or she feels should be within any codex of law.

Still: the note has been noted (pun and redundancy intended). This should be a pretty clear explanation on how to work with someone being guilty.


Ed: Oh, and one other thing. Outsider type and DR 10/Epic and opposite alignment as capstone abilities isn't very awe-inspiring. Totally defensive abilities rarely are. Another favourite paladin of mine, Gorgondantess' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160730), allows you to Smite all enemies and doubles your Smite against Evil enemies as a 20th-level ability, and that's with Smite adding Charisma bonus to attack rolls and Paladin level to damage on every attack against Evil creatures. Increasing all damage and penalties to opponents of opposite alignment and widening abilities to affect Neutral targets too would be nice.

Doubling smite damage at 20th level isn't truly inspiring, much less widening abilities to affect Neutral targets, if you can do it with a feat. I've considered improving a feat to do so (Improved Smiting, which I'm playtesting its effects currently). I've also considered widening the effects of the Smite to Neutral characters (based on the class) as a smite ACF. Making it an automatic 20th level ability seems just as weak as providing DR 10/epic and alignment. It's mostly a gift since by the moment you reach 20th level you're essentially super-resilient to everything (I mean, Unyielding Resolve alone makes for a brutal capstone, because it augments the negative hit point range thus essentially providing you with more HP; the final ability of Stand upon Adversity is also a formidable capstone). The reason why I say that's uninspiring is because while you can get DR pretty easily, you can rarely get Epic DR that also stacks with another alignment; meanwhile, a critical hit already doubles your Smite, and the adjustment to Improved Smite also doubles your Smite damage, so I'm essentially offering you the capstone as a feat. I couldn't do that with the current capstone.

As a final point: DR as it currently stands isn't surprising. As I envision DR, Paladins get a 50% reduction on their physical damage unless the damage comes from an epic weapon of an evil alignment; likewise with the rest of the Divine Champions. That makes DR all the more powerful, as it should be, and just gaining access to native Outsider with a specified alignment even more (since you could effectively get a new spell slot via feat and choose a spell that requires you to be a good outsider to pull that off, makes you immune to spells such as Charm, Dominate or Hold Person, completely alters the effect of bane weapons and other minor but flavorful benefits).

[Cogidubnus]

Ok. I think, by reading your text, that you rule that DR of the same type stacks?


while you can get DR pretty easily, you can rarely get Epic DR that also stacks with another alignment;

Which is not how I read the rules, I read it as being only one source of DR. That would make for a very different level of power with the DR.

You also didn't explain about what sort of caster the Justiciar is.

[T.G. Oskar]

Ok. I think, by reading your text, that you rule that DR of the same type stacks?

Which is not how I read the rules, I read it as being only one source of DR. That would make for a very different level of power with the DR.

Not really. What I meant there was that it's hard to find one source of DR that requires both an Epic weapon and a weapon of a specified alignment that is gained via a class feature. You can get DR that gets turned off via Magic, or via a specific alignment, but getting Epic DR is pretty rare unless you're of a race that allows it, since no Epic Prestige Class grants that. Even dragons, which after CR 21st are considered epic creatures, don't get Epic DR. Having one that also requires a specific alignment (hence, DR X/Epic and alignment) is even rarer, much rarer than a feat that allows affecting any creature (Strength of Conviction) and a way to double the smite damage (18-20 crit range + keen/Imp. Critical). Perhaps I wrote it in a way that made it look like I ruled DR stacked, which isn't the case.

The ruling I DO, though, is that DR reduces damage based by percentage. Someone with DR 1 would reduce the first 5% of damage dealt, up to a minimum of 1 point (thus, someone who deals 5 points of damage gets 1 point off through DR, while someone who does 40 gets 2 points reduced). For every point of DR, the character reduces 5% (up to a maximum of 95%), and the minimum damage reduction would be based on the amount of DR itself. Thus, a character with DR 10/epic and evil would reduce 50% of the damage taken by a weapon (10 x 5% = 50%), with a minimum of 10 points, unless the weapon has an enhancement bonus of +6 and is evil-aligned. Having that degree of damage reduction makes the capstone quite powerful, since only a few creatures have a weapon of that magnitude to bypass that protection, and any other attack gets half its total shafted. Outsider is merely icing on the cake.

However, it IS a weak capstone with the current rules of DR. It IS the trend on many other places, though, and the capstone has to be such that it prepares you for Epic levels, so twice your damage and affecting everyone doesn't seem like something you'd like to wait until Epic for; you'd want it earlier on. DR is something that wastes its power much later on, but changing your type not so much (IF you have a way to get Alter Self, that is).


You also didn't explain about what sort of caster the Justiciar is.

That is because I saw the second edit right after I posted the response. Justiciar is meant to be a spontaneous spellcaster, and as such it learns the spells rather than having to prepare them. All divine champions do, so it's really something I apparently didn't dealt with. Notice that's a problem with the Blackguard and the Anarch as well, because of how they're organized; I made the Paladin on one document, then the other three on a separate document, and thus they were pasted differently. However, by noticing how the Paladin (the base class, so to speak) is written, and the discussion about the Divine Champion chassis:

There are a few traits that you can extrapolate from the "Divine Warrior" chassis:
Limited, yet substantial, amount of spellcasting. Their spellcasting ability is spontaneous and increased from the original Paladin.


Emphasis mine.

Thanks for pointing that out, though. The documents are huge (the Blackguard and the Justiciar alone, with the commentary, exceed the 50,000 word mark), so I could use some help on proofreading. It seems that people mostly notice the Paladin and forget that there are currently 4 classes and 2 PrCs, plus a page for ACFs and a page that deals with the nature of the homebrew itself comprising the page (which is odd, because there's a title page...), so the rest of the classes get little proofreading.

[Fable Wright]

Hm... could you give some ACFs for the normal Paladin/Blackguard chassis to make them more awesome, but not necessarily as overwhelming as this? With spellcasting, usually two or more class features per level, it can be a bit of a turn-off for some DMs, making some players who want to try it out unable to. However, a halfway point between normal paladin and this through ACFs would make it more palatable to restrictive DMs.

[Lord_Gareth]

I'd actually like to see a real class feature on level 1 of the standard paladin, since the nonlethal damage thing is absolutely worthless in the rocket-powered swingfest that is L1 combat.

[Cogidubnus]

Thanks for clarification on the spellcasting, I assumed it must be spontaneous but thought I'd check. It's virtually impossible to keep that much text error-free, I'm well aware. Thanks for answering my queries.

[T.G. Oskar]

Hm... could you give some ACFs for the normal Paladin/Blackguard chassis to make them more awesome, but not necessarily as overwhelming as this? With spellcasting, usually two or more class features per level, it can be a bit of a turn-off for some DMs, making some players who want to try it out unable to. However, a halfway point between normal paladin and this through ACFs would make it more palatable to restrictive DMs.

Well, I *was* thinking about hotfixes for the Paladin class without making it overwhelming, but the whole idea of the project was to retool the class from the ground up.

I generally support the following ideas, though:
Full CL. No nonsense about 1/2 CL after 4th level, or class level -3 CL. The former is extremely punishing, the latter is basically asking for a feat tax. Expanding the spell list is purely optional.
Smites per encounter instead of per day. That should make them a bit more useful. Of course, that would require a method to make the smites a bit more powerful, in order to make them awesome.
Replace uses of Remove Disease for bonus Fighter feats, divine feats or domain feats. Then, return Remove Disease into the Paladin spellcasting.
Add Intimidate to the list of class skills. Intimidate is a strong tool that the Paladin could use, and a Paladin could be intimidating without being overtly evil.

That should do something to solve a few of the issues without really delving over the Paladin class itself, in case someone's too intimidated by the class. Basically, it makes the Paladin a bit closer to a part Fighter/part Cleric class, but with the chance of adding the ACFs that already exist (Charging Smite, Divine Spirit, Underdark Knight) to modify the class. In fact, that was basically the addendum to the Project, except do consider that the Project still has a few things to show (such as the other PrCs). It's as much an addendum to the project as the chassis discussion, except the chassis discussion was, IMO, essential to the project itself.


I'd actually like to see a real class feature on level 1 of the standard paladin, since the nonlethal damage thing is absolutely worthless in the rocket-powered swingfest that is L1 combat.

Hmm. Sense Motive: 1d20+2.

Was it good enough, or not? That was sarcasm, wasn't it?

In any case, isn't smite sufficient for the "rocket-powered swingfest"? Non-lethal damage done automatically is basically a fluff feature, but the class already gets smite, which is essentially THE method of damage dealing (even if it's only 1 point of damage + rider effect at the moment). A paladin wielding a greatsword with Str 16 will deal just as much damage, if not more, than the orc wielding a greatsword with Str 16; what's better, the Paladin could then use Power Attack and deal exactly the same damage as an orc, but with Charisma to attack rolls as a bonus. Hardly any loss. Then, it's off to base Power Attacks.

If you refer to shield-users, they get a little behind at 1st level, but they got their shields where it matters the most. At 2nd level, when the AC doesn't increase but the attack bonus does, then the Paladin gets to add its Charisma, and thus it does a reasonable amount of damage (Strength + Charisma) but keeps the same better AC. Since you now draw from two factors (Strength AND Charisma) for your damage, you can increase your damage potential per hit even further. Then, add stuff like Agile Shield Fighter and enjoy your two-five hits with Str+Cha to damage, plus a smite whenever it's needed the most.

[NineThePuma]

To add some perspective to Gareth's request, Gareth (and I, for that matter) are (or was, in my case) participating in a low level arena scenario, starting from level 1. Your classes tend to lack anything to make them big and scary at level 1, or worse, they don't shine until later levels. This is less a problem of your classes, but the circumstances mean that any class that really comes into its own at level 3+ aren't options.

I'll be posting my experiences (with the Bez-Kismet) in the appropriate thread, but I was hoping that you'd be able to get some insight into Gareth's request by knowing the circumstances that prompt it.

(As an aside, your Ninja has Ki Pool... and then nothing to spend its Ki on at level 1. I can't really help but think this is an issue.)

[Lord_Gareth]

Not just that, but if you whiffsmite (an incredible probability) you lose it for the encounter and become a fighter with no bonus feat. But more than anything, making the nonlethal thing a class feature meant to take up a slot at first level is incredibly underwhelming. Justicar has the same problem, except they can pick up lethal damage on whips as at least a bone to whip-builds.

In fact, the first five levels of ALL of these classes are chock full of passive abilities that are really uninteresting to play around with. Like, seriously, the 0-level spells do precisely nothing for those levels and your combat options are, essentially, "Charge" and "Rapid Shot". This desperately needs mixing up.

[T.G. Oskar]

To add some perspective to Gareth's request, Gareth (and I, for that matter) are (or was, in my case) participating in a low level arena scenario, starting from level 1. Your classes tend to lack anything to make them big and scary at level 1, or worse, they don't shine until later levels. This is less a problem of your classes, but the circumstances mean that any class that really comes into its own at level 3+ aren't options.


Not just that, but if you whiffsmite (an incredible probability) you lose it for the encounter and become a fighter with no bonus feat. But more than anything, making the nonlethal thing a class feature meant to take up a slot at first level is incredibly underwhelming. Justicar has the same problem, except they can pick up lethal damage on whips as at least a bone to whip-builds.

In fact, the first five levels of ALL of these classes are chock full of passive abilities that are really uninteresting to play around with. Like, seriously, the 0-level spells do precisely nothing for those levels and your combat options are, essentially, "Charge" and "Rapid Shot". This desperately needs mixing up.

That was the answer I was looking for. The exact range and scope of the problem, because I had a hint of the same problem but was playing with a modified set of rules.

However, I have a few issues with this. What exactly seems to be the problem; the damage, or the options? The Paladin has options inside combat, more than just charging or smiting; they have the same options as every other martial combatant, as well as the ability to intimidate just as well if not better than other classes (because of the Charisma focus). Blackguards and Anarchs can also feint just as well.

Now, I think I have the issue pegged down, and I believe it relies with the options Crusaders and Psychic Warriors (a few of the Tier 3 classes) get. Going for maneuvers wasn't my intention; after all, the idea was that the Paladin could exist on its own without having to stack maneuvers on top of them. Martial Study works well in case they want to get some of that power and flexibility, and while they get not as many feat slots, they DO get more feat slots than the average paladin (or cleric, barbarian, swashbuckler, and even the crusader itself). If it's for the spells, while I can work a reduction on when spells come online (sorta like what Pathfinder does with them), but I still have my reserves on expanding their spell list up to 6th level (it makes Bardic spellcasting, one of the few unique traits of Bards, a complete joke) or 5th level (same, but with Duskblades). Furthermore, giving them the ability to cast their 1st level spells at 1st level will interfere with Clerics, as they gain the ability to cast a great deal of cleric spells and some spells earlier than the norm. I *could* reduce their spell accessibility one level (so they gain 1st level spells at 3rd level, 2nd level spells at 7th, and so on), but not go too far.

As for the Smite, I recognize I missed that point where failing an attack doesn't expend your smite attempt. That should allow the Paladin a bit more power, as it would ensure its most important ability eventually lands. The rest is mostly build schematics (I find odd that a Paladin can't get enough attack bonus, even when stacking Strength and Charisma, to land a hit less than 50% of the time unless the dice roll below the average or the technique is pathetic). Damage definitely needs to be boosted a bit (I was considering 5+Paladin level extra damage, which would be significative), but between that and the ability to retain the smite on a failed attack roll, it should do well enough. I figure the issue is not "once a Paladin spends its smite, it becomes a Fighter without bonus feats"; it's rather "once a Paladin spends its smite, it becomes a Crusader without maneuvers" (they don't get the +1 to attack and damage rolls, but they do get the passive bonuses floating around).

Another choice would be to provide an extra bonus feat at 2nd level, keeping the progression of bonus feats intact, since apparently Diehard isn't enough of a bonus feat. That should expand the provided offensive choices, or give extra defensive choices (and since domain feats are open to selection, it grants stuff such as Travel Devotion or Trickery Devotion for Anarchs or Animal Devotion for those worshippers of Ehlonna).

Having offered that, I'd still like to see how more "offensive options" can be added without ending with 1st level spells at any moment lower than 3rd level or pseudomaneuvers (aside from Smite, which is a pseudomaneuver but one that stacks with level). I believe that the three modifications (bonus feat and Protector's Might at 2nd, Smite unexpended on a failed attack roll, lower accessibility to 1st and 2nd level spells by one level) should increase the offensive potential of the Paladin without having to resort to any more complex solutions.

[Groverfield]

It should be noted that paladins shouldn't be banned from necromancy, just most necromancy... as you'll note that you already have Death Ward on the spell list, plus the aura of courage (as not being a simple immunity) would likely now sport necromancy as a descriptor. Note Speak With The Dead might be befitting to add to the list, though by the time you could cast it, it would be a simple trick for any and all main casters

[T.G. Oskar]

It should be noted that paladins shouldn't be banned from necromancy, just most necromancy... as you'll note that you already have Death Ward on the spell list, plus the aura of courage (as not being a simple immunity) would likely now sport necromancy as a descriptor. Note Speak With The Dead might be befitting to add to the list, though by the time you could cast it, it would be a simple trick for any and all main casters

Well, the thing is that the few necromantic spells the Paladin can cast are easily placed on the Paladin spell list. Death Ward, being on the Paladin spell list, remains as it was originally on the spell list; likewise for Mark of Justice (being a ritualistic method of Bestow Curse). However, that was to make a blanket coverage of the few spells that would be odd for Paladins to have, such as:

The Inflict Wounds line. Paladins do get a few attack spells this time such as Searing Light and Holy Smite, so they're not entirely removed from damage dealing spells, but the Inflict line of spells tends to have a strong evil flavor (if not entirely evil).
Spells with the Evil, Death or Fear descriptor. Evil, of course, requires little explanation as to why not (Paladins are meant to be the GOOD guys...). Death, likewise, contains a few spells that are generally a bit nefarious, as they essentially end the life of an individual immediately, instead of providing a due chance at redemption. Fear spells, on the other hand, prey on the insecurities and the, well, fears of the targets, which would likewise seem wrong; a Paladin's resolve may shaken and even cause people to cower, but that's because they recognize the Paladin for what he or she is (and thus, it is their conscience causing them fear), but not deliberately causing them unwanted fear. Of course, you could give a proper explanation as to why a Paladin could get Death or Fear spells, but to retain flavor, it's better to keep them out.
Between the Death, Fear and Evil spells, you can group the entirety of the spells of the school. The only other few would be spells that cause status effects (fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage/drain), which are likewise shunned by Paladins. Those that remain, though, are fair play as they're a more "positive" form of Necromancy, such as the ability to speak with the dead, or preserve their corpses for proper burial or resurrection, and so forth.


Still, good point on the Speak with Dead addition. I would also add Gentle Repose, as the effect is quite positive (you preserve the corpse, something that could be done as a form of respect to the fallen creature). I'd appreciate a list of which spells could fit that theme of "positive" necromancy, aside from the Necromancy spells the Paladin can already cast (which are essentially added in automatically), to see if they can be added and thus expand the spell list even further. This would serve as an expanded spell list covering stuff from Spell Compendium and latter splats, which may contain spells that aren't on the Paladin spell list but are still appropriate to consider.

I'm also considering allowing them access to the Sanctified spell list, but you still have to learn the spell you desire in order to use it. The sanctified spell list from BoED adds quite a bit of power to the Paladin, including a few needed attack spells (Lantern Light and Hammer of Retribution come to mind; I think there was a third one as well). Of course, that would be an optional rule, as most of the BoED has to be taken with a grain of salt because of the stringent requirements to use any of the material (basically, being far too good for the average adventurer).

[Groverfield]

The big one that I use as my usual "Necromancy is not evil" argument is a 6th level cleric/sorcerer/wizard spell "Undeath to death," which is one of those auto-kill spells, but works only on undead. Hard to explain any evil character resorting to this other than "emergency button incase my minions turn on me," and then even it's more of a sensible and self-preservation spell than an evil means to an end.

Arguably the necromancy spells focused on outright weakening opponents without negative energy or negative levels would be "untainted" necromancy, as it focuses on defeating enemies without killing them, but only if the effects are not permanent (so curses are ruled out.) Specifically noting Touch of Fatigue, Disrupt Undead, Ray of Enfeeblement (which cannot be used to kill, but can drop STR to 1 minimum,) but those are arcane spells, so they don't matter. I've also heard good arguments for inflict to not be anywhere near as evil as people assume.

From Core, the only one of such I'd say you want to add would be Speak with Dead and Gentle Riposte, as you suggested. All of the others that I was thinking of are either arcane, aren't Necromancy as I'd thought, or wouldn't be Paladin flavor outright. I've got a few projects to work on of my own at the moment, so it would be nice if someone else at least did a bit from the spell compendium.

[T.G. Oskar]

The big one that I use as my usual "Necromancy is not evil" argument is a 6th level cleric/sorcerer/wizard spell "Undeath to death," which is one of those auto-kill spells, but works only on undead. Hard to explain any evil character resorting to this other than "emergency button incase my minions turn on me," and then even it's more of a sensible and self-preservation spell than an evil means to an end.

Arguably the necromancy spells focused on outright weakening opponents without negative energy or negative levels would be "untainted" necromancy, as it focuses on defeating enemies without killing them, but only if the effects are not permanent (so curses are ruled out.) Specifically noting Touch of Fatigue, Disrupt Undead, Ray of Enfeeblement (which cannot be used to kill, but can drop STR to 1 minimum,) but those are arcane spells, so they don't matter. I've also heard good arguments for inflict to not be anywhere near as evil as people assume.

From Core, the only one of such I'd say you want to add would be Speak with Dead and Gentle Riposte, as you suggested. All of the others that I was thinking of are either arcane, aren't Necromancy as I'd thought, or wouldn't be Paladin flavor outright. I've got a few projects to work on of my own at the moment, so it would be nice if someone else at least did a bit from the spell compendium.

Well, I'm not closed to adding arcane spells (after all, the Paladin has Heroism and Good Hope in its class list, and that is an arcane spell), so Disrupt Undead could definitely count. I'm a bit iffy on Ray of Enfeeblement (it's a penalty, but as you mentioned it's not really a lethal penalty, it can make stronger enemies a bit less powerful and the Paladin has good BAB so there's a good chance it hits even with low Dex) and any spell in the fatigue line (including Touch of Fatigue), but there's little reason why it shouldn't appear. It would be perfect for a Blackguard, though, who does take advantage of causing enemies fatigue or outright delivering serious penalties, and I could see a Justiciar using them as well (Touch of Fatigue means they can't run, which makes them better for capture).

I don't mind "positive" or untainted Necromancy spells from the arcane spell list, but they should fit the theme of the Paladin. I could certainly see Halt Undead as part of the list as well, since it fits somewhat the same rationale as Undeath to Death (at best, an evil necromancer will use it to gather new people, but it is best used as an offensive spell against undead minions), and its between the sweet spot of spells (0-5, with level 5 spells counting as level 4 spells).

[T.G. Oskar]

Oh yeah, just a wee bit of a heads-up:

One thing I wanted to consider was that to increase the smite damage. Adding just 1 point of damage seems a bit weak. I made a tentative increase to 5+divine champion level, but that might be a bit strong at that level. Should I keep it at 5+class level, or lower it a bit to 3+class level? Smite needs a bit of a damage boost at lower levels. but a reasonable boost, which scales properly.

[T.G. Oskar]

Apparently I could manage to get another day of play, after two weeks when I couldn't because of hurricane (then tropical storm) Irene, and then because of problems with the power supply. This, of course, allowed me to test the changes to the Paladin, particularly offensively.

...Sadly enough, still not enough. The Fighter grossly outdamages him, but I blame that on the massive sheet of metal that weights 46 lbs. he wields (a Large Fullblade).

Basically, today was the "Night of Criticals". Of the few battles we had today, the Fighter did three successful critical hits out of four critical hits on all 8 attack rolls he had to do. All I can mention is that 120 points of damage through a critical is so not fair. Way too not fair.

The first battle was against four Huge monstrous crabs. The Paladin definitely continued with his missing hits even with a solid +17 maximum attack roll, if only because my attack rolls are abysmal. I believe the Paladin never rolled over 10. The one hit he managed to land was with the smite, which actually paralyzed the enemy in a single hit (too bad there was no coup de grace, tho). Going full Power Attack wasn't really a good idea, which could have added to the damage.

The next, of course, is the first time I send the group through an honest to goodness dungeon. The group was sent to find Cannith excoriates which are selling firearms (the group already has a cannon stored on their ship ready to give to their patron, but they're seeking the blueprints for the smaller handcannons), and are entering one of the few secret factories they have spread through the Lhazaar Principalities. Whether they find a blueprint or have to look on another place depends on luck. Though the idea is that the blueprints are divided in three parts, and are a bit more complex than they thought, so they need to cross three dungeons).
The second battle of the day was against three Destrachans. They made a combined sonic attack that everyone except the Paladin could pass, which with the Devotion aura took the Paladin right below the half HP mark (as he reduced all allies' sonic damage, with the Bard/Ranger/Rogue taking absolutely no damage thanks to Evasion). A chance to find if the Paladin could work much better was ruined by the double-kill from the Fighter with his damage overload (and his two criticals, mind you). It really hurts when the Fighter deals enough damage to cover twice the creatures' HP and then more.

The third battle, on the other hand, was just for the Warmage and the Warmage alone, as they faced a Black Pudding. Of course, the idea was to see if the Fighter was crazy enough to use his prized weapon on the ooze, which he didn't. Of course, the only thing the Paladin could use was his one and only Javelin of Lightning, which he reserved as the Warmage made short work of the pudding through a judicious use of Wall of Ice.

So, anything new with this? Well:
No Power Attack until the Paladin has several points of attack bonus, or I get a better d20 (accepting donations of better, charged d20s or throwing techniques). With the Bard's song, the Paladin reached a very GOOD +17 attack bonus, which with the Haste bonus increased swiftly to +18, and he managed to land only ONE hit, becuase the attack rolls never went over 10, and usually were way below the required AC of 22. The one hit he managed to land was a smite.
Yet, the damage was quite interesting. Of course, it's Improved Smite that did the work, but the Paladin finally did a respectable 35 points of damage (the maximum damage he could deal without Power Attack) on his one successful attack. Certainly that's because he should already have a +2 weapon. Being currently on a dungeon, the Warmage used a Greater Magic Weapon spell on him, so he finally has a (temporary) magic weapon.
Vigor is formidable. With Cure Minor Wounds he could heal 15 points of damage per casting, and 2d8+14 through a Healing Belt. The group barely required HPs, but the Vigor bonus plus the few healing abilities the Paladin has make him a superb healer. I think I should do something regarding Lay on Hands, though, since he could easily stack the bonus really fast.
The Paladin having Air Walk helped quite a lot, as he could cross through pits like nothing. The Fighter had to rely on jumping while the Paladin crossed with little trouble. Having Air Walk as a 2nd level spell for the Paladin and staying only 1-5 feet upwards really changes how he fights. He should get a way to cast spells swiftly other than Battle Blessing, because a swift-action Air Walk could help him float over the Warmage's webs and tentacles.

Fortunately, the group is planning to reunite at least twice per month, which is great, and the next few areas will be dungeons, so that means I can use lower CR monsters and several battles, which helps to test their endurance. The combination of Devotion and Vigor for the auras is helping a lot, as the Paladin absorbs quite a deal of the damage and then use his own resources to heal himself, further improving the distribution of damage.

I'll have to attempt next time leaving the Paladin's rolls to the players, if only because of the abysmal rolls. I find that most of the data I can gather is being contaminated by having such low rolls, so whatever contribution he could provide to the party is getting cut by the below-average rolls. Considering that while I constantly roll under 10 my players more often than not roll OVER 15, there seems to be a problem somewhere beyond the raw stats.

Hopefully the three dungeons should help quite a bit to test the Paladin's endurance. The Bard and the Warmage have expended far more things than the Fighter and the Paladin, but there are still a few battles forward, and I'll seek to find ways in which I can distract the Fighter in order to deal as little damage as possible.

As a few last comments: one, unlike what I heard before, Battle Blessing isn't really an overpowering feat choice on certain campaigns (mostly if you nova a lot, which may not give you the chance to use the Paladin's spells), and definitely I need to nerf a revision to Improved Critical a bit. About that latter point: increasing the critical damage multiplier is really a bad idea, at least as early as 8th level and specifically with a character optimized for battle.

[T.G. Oskar]

No game this week, too little activity...well, let's spice this up a bit, shall we?

Originally, I had no intention to change the Gray Guard. As far as I could see it, it worked right as intended; a Paladin that would do questionable acts in the name of good, while retaining a personal measure of honor to retain his ordinance. However, after watching a bit closer all the changes, I started to realize the Gray Guard as written wouldn't do. Furthermore, the term "Gray Guard" could work well for a Blackguard that acted within a mantle of honor and righteousness to commit evil acts as the inverse of the Paladin-oriented Gray Guard, so it gave options to expand. And finally, the idea that aside from the expansion of traits with the smite and lay on hands, the Gray Guard actually missed a few things. I distinctively realized this when I finished working on the Knight Hospitaller, as the Gray Guard's existing incarnation felt lacking after the extensive retooling of the "healer-type" PrC.

Thus, I made a few changes to the Gray Guard. Hope they are effective and liked by everybody.

--


GRAY GUARD

"Certainly, milord. The resistance has been dealt with, cleanly and efficiently. There shall be no opposition to your plans." -- Dalko Shavar, commander of the 3rd Legion of the Damned and leader of the Kaellesian Resistance Front, reporting to the Dread Emperor Nhavarash of the mock-battle in southern Kaelles.

Hit Die: d12.

Requirements
To qualify to become a gray guard, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any good or any evil
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Sense Motive 8 ranks
Special: Smite evil or smite good class ability
Special: Divine aura or fiendish aura class ability
Special: Lay on hands or vampiric touch class ability

As you can see, only a paladin or a blackguard can enter the class, and specifically only one from Project Heretica.

In case you wish to use the modified Gray Guard but NOT the Project Heretica classes, you'll only need to qualify for the smite evil/smite good ability, and the divine grace/dark blessing class featurem as well as the alignment, BAB and skills requirements. It has a bit more requirements than the original, though.

Class Skills
The gray guard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Riddle me this: if the class exists on a sourcebook that glorifies the acquisition of skills, why does the class lack a decent amount of skill points? 4+Int should be more than enough; it should cover for at least three skills if you lack Int, but you might have enough Intelligence to make up for it.

Furthermore, the skill list is kinda lacking. It has quite a few good skills (Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Sense Motive) but few others. This version adds Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (religion) (odd that it can't advance the required entry skill...), Perform and Profession. That's a huge list of skills, and some pretty good ones. It does lack Handle Animal, though, because you're a lieutenant and you let the lackeys handle the beasts.

{TABLE=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting
1st|+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Gray touch, indiscriminating smite (similar alignment), tarnished aura|-
2nd|+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Cloak the true self, shadow spellcasting|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
3rd|+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Alignment uncertainty (Undetectable Alignment), bonus feat|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
4th|+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Indiscriminating smite (lawful or chaotic), unaligned spellcasting|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
5th|+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Alignment uncertainty (aligned items)|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
6th|+6|
+5|
+2|
+5|Bonus feat, mettle|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
7th|+7|
+5|
+2|
+5|Alignment uncertainty (aligned spells), indiscriminating smite (all)|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
8th|+8|
+6|
+2|
+6||+1 of existing divine spellcasting
9th|+9|
+6|
+3|
+6|Alignment uncertainty (positive or negative energy), bonus feat|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
10th|+10|
+7|
+3|
+7|Mask the true self, undying|+1 of existing divine spellcasting[/TABLE]

Class Features
The following are class features of the gray guard
Gray Touch (Su): Before becoming a member of the order, a gray guard acquired the ability to heal the wounds of others by touch, or to drain the vitality of his enemies. The order’s practices blend both disciplines into a single whole, allowing the gray guard to use his healing energy (or capability to drain vitality) in a strikingly different way. Upon entering the class, a good-aligned gray guard (and thus, a character that can use lay on hands) may choose to use his power offensively or to drain the vitality of his enemies, and an evil-aligned gray guard (and thus, a character that can use vampiric touch) may choose to use his power to heal wounds or to deal damage without healing itself. However, despite these new powers, most gray guards still have reserves to as to whom they will apply these powers into.
A good-aligned gray guard may spend points of his lay on hands ability to instead deal damage to opponents, on a 1 by 1 point basis. Alternatively, he may spend 10 points of his daily allotment to drain the vitality of enemies, as if using a vampiric touch spell, with a caster level of 1 plus 1 per every 6 points spent over the minimum amount (to a total of 54 points for caster level 10th). He may only harm or drain the vitality of evil enemies, but he may use his lay on hands ability on any creature. If using the vampiric touch effect, the Paladin may not recover the expended points from his pool until the next day (instead of at the beginning of the encounter, as usual).
An evil-aligned gray-guard may spend a daily use of his vampiric touch ability to either heal himself or inflict damage to a creature equal to 1d6 points per two class levels of the blackguard. He may only harm good-aligned living creatures or heal undead creatures when expending the daily use of his vampiric touch ability to inflict damage, and this damage is treated as negative energy damage.

Since you need the Lay on Hands (or Vampiric Touch) ability to use it, this essentially adds some offensive power to the Paladin and some resilience to the blackguard.

The calculation for the exact amount of points of Lay on Hands should be pretty simple: for every 6 points you spend, your caster level increases by 1 (thus, 1 CL/6 points, and 9x6 equals 54, so you need 54 points to reach 10th level), so the expenditure of the healing pool has diminishing returns. This limits the uses of vampiric touch, since the way the Paladin recovers his healing pool would have made it far more powerful than that of the blackguard.

Indiscriminating Smite (Su): A gray guard has the power to smite his enemies and the enemies of his faith, but he knows that at times, it is best to use that incredible power on people that could be considered allies. A gray guard still holds a measure of his own faith and his own alignment around, but he learns to disassociate that from his smiting ability.
A gray guard stacks his levels in gray guard and the level that granted the smite ability for purposes of determining extra damage or the saving throw DC of his smite, but not to determine the progression of his smite (such as improved smite or devastating smite).
At 1st level, a good-aligned gray guard may smite good creatures as if they were evil creatures, but he deals only non-lethal damage. An evil-aligned gray guard may smite evil creatures as if they were good creatures. Lawful evil characters deal non-lethal damage to lawful evil creatures if they decide to use this ability against them.
At 4th level, a gray guard may smite creatures that are of either lawful or chaotic alignment, regardless of his own alignment, as if they were creatures of his opposed alignment. Lawful evil-aligned gray guards deal non-lethal damage to non-evil creatures that are also lawful. If the creature is of its extreme opposite alignment (for example, if a lawful good gray guard smites a chaotic evil character), the extra damage dealt by the smite is doubled.
At 7th level, a gray guard may smite any creature, regardless of alignment. As well, if it so decides, it may ignore the restrictions on lethal damage; thus, a lawful good gray guard may smite another lawful good creature and deal lethal damage. If the gray guard uses his smite ability as intended (for example, a good gray guard using smite evil against evil creatures), the extra damage dealt by the smite is doubled, and if the gray guard uses his smite ability against creatures of his extreme opposed alignment (for example, a lawful good gray guard using smite evil against a chaotic evil creature), the extra damage is instead tripled.

The idea behind Indiscriminating Smite is not only the ability to open smiting to any creature, but also to reinforce a bit the goal of the PrC; while you're doing dubious acts in pursuit of your goals (ends justifying the means), you still have a clear goal and those who oppose it must fall. Thus, while you can expand your smiting in order to deal damage to creatures of your own alignment, if you face someone of the opposite alignment, you strike with greater force and thus you deal twice or thrice the damage.

Now, while you still can advance the damage and the DC of your smite, you can't advance the tier to which your smite belongs to.judging by the earliest entry point (7th level), that means you have access to, at most, Tier 2nd smite traits. 10th level, the proper entry point, allows at least a Tier 2nd smite and a Tier 1st secondary smite, but still gets no further advancement. The idea is twofold; the first is to keep the main benefit of the divine champions in the class chassis themselves, so that you lose something while acquiring something else, and the other is that Indiscriminating Smite exists as a sort of smite-tier of its own (the 1st tier allows you to strike your own alignment, the 2nd tier allows striking lawful or chaotic creatures and doubles the damage to extremely opposed alignment, the 3rd tier allows you to smite anything and triples the damage against your opposed alignment). Thus, advancing the rider effects of the smites would have been far too much.

Tarnished Aura (Su): A gray guard is bestowed an aura of divinity by his deity, or by a representative of the powers and alignment he serves. As he delves into the philosophy of the gray guard order, he learns to manifest auras of traits questionable to his own, manifested by tapping into the very essence that comprises the power of those auras and using them for purposes opposed of their own. Thus, their aura potential weakens, but they gain greater flexibility on their choices.
Half of the levels in gray guard (rounded up) stack with levels in either paladin or blackguard to determine the accessibility and range of his auras (thus, a 7th level paladin/4th level gray guard is treated as if having 9 levels of paladin, increasing the range of his divine aura by 15 feet and granting a new aura). When the gray guard gains a new aura, he may choose from either the list of divine auras given to the paladin or the fiendish auras given to the blackguard, but his effective Charisma to determine the benefit of these auras is reduced by 4.

...while they don't advance their smites, they retain advancing their auras. Gray Guards, if you notice, mostly work in positions of relative importance (as the Dragon, for example, or the nefarious advisor of the good king), and thus they gain some advancement of their auras.

Regarding Divine Punishment/Divine Deterrence and Necrotic Punishment/Fiendish Absorption: while you advance the abilities if you have them, you can't gain the latter (either Divine Deterrence or Fiendish Absorption) unless you return to the class. The traits of the "super-auras" you already possess stacks up as indicated above; you simply can't gain the other "super-aura" just as easily, even if you would already have the effective class level to acquire it, unless you have the actual class levels for it.

Cloak the True Self (Ex): At 2nd level, the gray guard learns the tactics to fool people into believing him a great hero, or to fool villains into thinking in him as the perfect lieutenant. He gains a bonus equal to half his class level in Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate and Sense Motive checks.

Simple yet useful bonus. At 10th level, that's a +5 to Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate and Sense Motive. Why not Diplomacy? Well, that's in order to prevent Diplomancy, and because a diplomat may not be always honest, but it attempts to do so, which goes a bit counter to cloaking your true intentions (which is closer to Bluff). In any case, it's because adding more bonuses to Diplomacy can be pretty painful, while Bluff can be controlled somewhat (and the more Intimidate, the better).

Shadow Spellcasting (Sp): At 2nd level, the gray guard learns to befriend the shadows, thus allowing him to use the light to his benefit or embrace the darkness to deliver grim justice. A paladin that reaches this level may cast spells with the darkness descriptor, while a blackguard that reaches this level may cast spells with the light descriptor. As well, he adds the following spells to his spell list, regardless of whether he was a paladin or a blackguard:
1st —blur, misdirection, silent image
2nd—invisibility, minor image
3rd—major image, mirror image
4th—false vision, persistent image, shadow evocation
If using mysteries (see Shadow Magic, in the Tome of Magic supplement), the gray guard may instead replace any spell from the list presented above with a mystery of the same level or lower. He casts this mystery as if it were a divine spell (thus, he may cast it on armor without any chance of spell failure). If he chooses a mystery of a lower level to be applied as if it were a higher level (thus, if he, for example, replaces false vision for the flesh fails 2nd level mystery), he treats the spell as if heightened to that level (thus, he treats the flesh fails 2nd level mystery as a 4th level divine spell). He must make this choice at the moment he gains access (if he does) to spells of the indicated level; once the choice is made, it is permanent and may not be changed.

In order to assist the grim work of the Gray Guard (good or bad), the PrC grants access to a small, but considerably GOOD spell list. Just Blur, Mirror Image and even Shadow Evocation are good enough; if you're savvy enough you can make excellent work of the Image spells as well, and the rest are just icing in the cake.

However, there's just ONE more bone thrown around. Essentially, you can tweak your acquired spells so that you can get mysteries instead. Thus, the spells acquired potentially increase in power, providing even more boons to the class. You can only get up to 4th level mysteries (if you choose to replace any of the indicated spells) Being spontaneous spellcasters, this is a HUGE increase in the flexibility of the character, and a solid boost in power (or defense, mostly), especially if you're an expert at using mysteries. The fact that you can use a 1st level mystery as a 4th level spell and add your Charisma instead of your Intelligence makes the mystery a bit more attractive.

Alignment Uncertainty (Su): A gray guard is sure of his own alignment. A good gray guard serves justice, while an evil gray guard serves only himself. However, the principles of the order of the gray guards indicate that good does not necessarily has to be innocent, nor that evil cannot hide upon a mask of mercy and altruism; only the intention of the individual matters. Thus, while a gray guard is certain of his own beliefs, it is the world that cannot be certain of his intentions. This serves the gray guard, as it fits the nature of his work.
At 3rd level, a gray guard is under the effect of a permanent undetectable alignment spell with a caster level equal to the gray guard’s character level. The gray guard may suppress the effect of this ability or reactivate it as a swift action.
At 5th level, so as long as he has the benefit of undetectable alignment active, the gray guard may use items meant for creatures of his opposite alignment (evil items if good, good items if evil) without gaining negative levels. As well, if an item affects only creatures of the alignment opposite of the gray guard, the gray guard may ignore the effect of the spell.
At 7th level, so as long as he has the benefit of undetectable alignment active, the gray guard is treated as a creature of his own alignment and/or the alignment opposed to his (good and evil only) to determine the effects of a spell if it benefits him, and may ignore the effects if it affects him negatively. Thus, a good gray guard ignores the effects of an unholy blight spell and ignores the deflection bonus and damage reduction provided by a protection against good spell when attacking a creature protected by it.
At 9th level, so as long as he has the benefit of undetectable alignment active, the gray guard is treated as both a living creature and as an undead for purposes of determining the effects of a spell or ability whenever it benefits them. Thus, a good-aligned gray guard heals when affected by an inflict critical wounds spell, but does not take penalties if under a consecrated area.

A clever way to grant a few immunities and benefits at the same time. If you're gonna infiltrate into the lair of the villain, the last thing you want is to have your cover blown. Hence, you gain a permanent Undetectable Alignment effect, so that while it'll be hard to pin down your actual alignment, you can certainly bluff them that you're hardcore, baby-eating evil (or saintly good and smelling of roses, if you're a blackguard).

The 5th level and 7th level benefits are extremely good, as well. Essentially, you can use an unholy weapon with little to no problem, and then change into your holy weapon when necessary. Or, gain the benefit of a Book of Vile Darkness while secretly serving Heironeous.

However, the one ability you'll be barking me madly against is the 9th level ability. Basically, you are treated as an undead while being good, and you can heal from Inflict spells as if you were one, as well as probably taking benefits from being on a desecrated area or, worse, using a Profane weapon without penalty (or having Undead Torch cast upon you). This is excellent if you're on the higher echelons of minion-hood, where you're the commander of the legions of the damned under the command of a brutal demilich, and all of a sudden you politely ask the dying paladin to use the Holy Avenger he was wielding and betray the evil overlord in the midst of the battle, all while giving him the finger with your shield-hand. It's a great boon if you're serving an undead overlord, and this allows you to fight fairly on places where the other would have the advantage (such as...I dunno, the Negative Energy Plane?). This also implies quasi-immunity to energy drain, because most of the spells that drain levels provide temporary HP to the undead, which means you actually gain temporary hit points while neglecting the loss of levels.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, and every three levels after that, a gray guard gains a bonus feat in addition to those he obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. A gray guard must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a gray guard is considered to have a fighter level equal to his class level, plus his effective fighter levels from paladin or blackguard, plus any other effective fighter levels.

The Gray Guard is first and foremost a warrior, so they need bonus feats. They actually get bonus feats a bit faster, and may even get an extra bonus feat on the way to 10th level if timed correctly).

Regarding the effective Fighter levels; if you're a Gray Guard coming from a straight Paladin, you'd essentially have the same EFL as a Paladin of the same level, since the lowest possible amount of effective Fighter levels you can get from classes that advance Fighter levels is 16 (of course, if ALL classes advance Fighter levels). Right now, this may only work for feats such as Weapon Specialization and whatnot, but if you've followed the playtest bulletins, I've been testing a revision of feats that include advancing feat benefits and extra benefits from feats based on your effective Fighter level. This is why you'll be seeing this a lot whenever a martial class has effective Fighter levels. At the very least, you get 2-4 extra points of damage from two more feats.

Unaligned Spellcasting (Sp): At 4th level, a gray guard learns to tap even further into the powers of the alignment opposing his own, becoming capable of using spells that were formerly restricted to him. Although this bears the chance of tainting the good heart, or redeeming the evil heart, the gray guard seeks to advance his ends even if the spell is hideous to behold. A good-aligned gray guard becomes capable of casting evil spells and spells of the necromancy descriptor (except for spells that create undead), while an evil-aligned gray guard becomes capable of casting good spells.

Yep, even more benefits. Basically, the Paladin gains the ability to cast Death Knell while the Blackguard gains the ability to cast...well, I dunno, something good. Let's say Magic Circle against Evil just in case.

However, there are TWO clear restrictions. A Blackguard/Gray Guard with the Intuition ACF may NEVER cast Sanctified spells (remember that you can prepare spells through that ACF, hence you would qualify, except that sanctified spells require you to be more than good, and actually EXALTED), and a Paladin/Gray Guard may never cast Vile spells. Other spells with alignments are fair game.

Mettle (Ex): At 6th level, a gray guard gains the mettle ability. If he has already the mettle ability, he gains improved mettle instead.

Obviously, if you have Lay on Hands, you DEFINITELY have mettle, so you'll be getting Improved Mettle. However, in case you get Lay on Hands through a distinctively different mean, you can get mettle as usual.

Undying (Ex): At 10th level, a gray guard becomes capable of fighting even when his forces fail him, beyond where others could stand. A gray guard is never considered disabled or staggered, even if he has less than 0 hit points or his nonlethal damage exceeds his current hit point total. Furthermore, he may continue to fight even if he has less than -10 hit points, but only to an amount of negative hit points equal to 10 plus half his character level plus his Constitution modifier. Instant death effects and attacks that destroy the body still affect the gray guard if successful.

Yep, at 10th level, the Gray Guard gets what the Paladin could have gained 2 levels before (or the Blackguard, mind you). The ability makes sense in various ways, mostly the idea that you're relentless in your pursuit of justice (or injustice) and that you're the kind of lieutenant (or marshal) that is really tough to kill. But, what if you get betrayed and struck almost to death? Well, you can prove them wrong, resisting the blow and surviving for another day. Nothing says "evil son of..." than a person that refuses to die, and this is excellent for that.

Mask the True Self (Su): At 10th level, a gray guard learns to fool the most discriminating of the creatures; the very outsiders aligned to good and evil. He transcends beyond good and evil, and learns an ability to assume the identity of those outsiders reliably enough to hide in their very domains until the time is ripe for attacking. The gray guard is forevermore treated as a native outsider (unless he is already treated as one), and gains the shapechanger subtype and the alignment subtype related to his own (good for good creatures, or evil for evil creatures).
As well, he may assume the shape (but not the intrinsic physical characteristics) of outsiders in order to blend with them. Treat this as if using the alter self spell, except the gray guard only assumes the shape and general traits of an angel, an archon, a guardinal, an eladrin, a devil (baatezu or otherwise), a yugoloth, or a demon (be it tanar’ri, loumara, obyrith or otherwise) and may assume the form of a creature whose hit dice is equal or lower than that of the gray guard. He is treated as native to the plane of the outsider type he assumes the shape of and replaces his alignment subtype for the racial and alignment subtypes of the outsider (thus, if a lawful good gray guard assumes the form of an erinyes, he gains the lawful, evil and baatezu subtypes, temporarily suppresses his own good subtype, and is treated as a native of the Nine Hells and of the Material Plane). However, he does not gain the physical abilities of the form, such as the creatures ability scores, movement types, senses, natural attacks or extraordinary special qualities unless he has them already. The gray guard may not assume the form of a creature of two sizes larger or smaller than its own, but it gains the benefits of increased (or decreased) size.

The capstone allows you to fool even the outsiders themselves. Basically, it's similar as what a Paladin (or Blackguard) would get at 20th level, except that they get a nifty Alter Self-esque ability to assume the form of a lower demon and infiltrate in the echelons of the Lower (or Upper) Planes without being caught. However, you don't get the benefits from transforming (aside from the size increase, since that is essentially a question of the actual size you assume). Thus, a female human paladin trying to fool a male overlord may assume the form of a succubus, but she cannot use the racial traits of the creature (she can, though, fool the overlord into believing that her true form is her disguised form and viceversa, and use her spells to further deception). This is mostly so that you may not use the form as an actual combat benefit (unless you assume a creature of a size larger or shorter), but rather keep it for deceptive purposes.

--

Besides this, I want to make a few other comments. There are two more PrCs after this one (Hunter of the Dead and Knight of the Chalice) that have been retooled, and afterwards there are two things I'd like to add to bring the project to a concluded state. These two things are:

Magic Items for Divine Champions

This includes retooled versions of the Holy Avenger and other weapons from earlier versions of D&D, which are far more powerful than the norm. Each has a special series of traits that make them different, and far more powerful, than the typical Avenger. There is also a series of armor suits that scale just like the Avengers (and that originally appeared in Dragon magazine), and perhaps one or two extra items. The last item may probably be the shield of Prator/shield of the sun, the artifact shield that grants Paladin spellcasting and other benefits.

"But all I want is to play a Paladin, not a new class! This retooling is too much! I want a fix, not a total remake!"

Basically, this is an addendum for those people who want to play the Paladin, the Blackguard, and the PrCs with as few changes as possible. These are fixes that I believe are good enough, without really delving into actual homebrewing, that should bring the Paladin one step closer to Tier 3/4 without going in-depth. These include slight modifications to the Paladin class, the Blackguard and Holy Liberator PrCs, other paladin-related PrCs, and even the Prestige Paladin PrC (in case you believe the Paladin class should have been a PrC in the first place). These modifications are to be presented in a modular way, in which you may patch the original classes at your discretion, with explanations of why this should be done, and even modifications done to the Divine Champions retrofit to their 3.5 incarnations. The main idea is that people get intimidated with my work, so I present a "lite" alternative that introduces the advancements of Project Heretica to those who wouldn't otherwise use the 'brewed classes because they are allergic to homebrewing.

TL;DR - the "backwards compatibility" mode of Project Heretica.

Afterwards, I intend to keep the thread active in case you want to see other PrCs modified, as well as requests for unique homebrew related to the Divine Champions (such as new feats, new ACFs or new items). The Project will be essentially concluded, but it may still be modified if an ability is too weak, too strong, or too confusing.

Having said that; questions? Comments? Should I make the addendum out of order for the benefit of everyone, or keep the order as mentioned? Remember that each part of Project Heretica can be accessed through the front page, so it CAN be slightly out of order.

[Cieyrin]

Hmm, a Grey Guard who is actually grey from both directions; nifty. Since your retool doesn't really involve codes that the original Grey Guard was to loosen, it's neat to see a suitable replacement that has the spirit and has power to go with it.

Also looking forward to the Holy Avenger, as well as possibly the Sunblade, among other things. While many of us just use the EtCR version for a cheap heavy finesse weapon, seeing it properly strong for its price would also be good.

[T.G. Oskar]

Hmm, a Grey Guard who is actually grey from both directions; nifty. Since your retool doesn't really involve codes that the original Grey Guard was to loosen, it's neat to see a suitable replacement that has the spirit and has power to go with it.

That wasn't the original intention, but the more I saw the Gray Guard, the more I noticed that what it had originally wasn't enough to keep it as intended, so it was fit for a change. Thus, I went with the "gray in both ways", where you could be the Paladin in tarnished armor that worked for the enemy to undermine them, or the Blackguard that leads the armies of Light as if it were its own personal army.


Also looking forward to the Holy Avenger, as well as possibly the Sunblade, among other things. While many of us just use the EtCR version for a cheap heavy finesse weapon, seeing it properly strong for its price would also be good.

The Holy Avenger (or rather, the Divine Avenger) is pretty interesting. To explain the differences:

Holy Avenger can be either a +2 cold iron longsword or a +5 holy cold iron longsword. The Divine Avenger starts as a regular weapon, but in the hands of a divine champion is a holy/unholy/axiomatic/anarchic metalline weapon (not necessarily a longsword) with a scaling enhancement bonus.
Both weapons have the Magic Circle effect, but the revised one has a MC effect based on its alignment.
The Holy Avenger has the Greater Dispel Magic at will; the Divine Avenger doesn't. There's another Avenger weapon that has it, though (one meant for witch slayers).
The Holy Avenger can be used only by the Paladin; the Divine Avenger can be used by all divine champions.
The Holy Avenger is extremely expensive (over 120,000 gp). The Divine Avenger has less than half that price (only 57,600 gp), but isn't meant to be bought OR sold.
The Holy Avenger has a maximum enhancement bonus of +5. At epic levels, the Divine Avenger becomes likewise an epic weapon (+6 or higher).

That's not the only Avenger, but it's the basic one.

As for the Sun Blade, I actually missed that one, but if done using the avenger rules, it might be a bit more expensive and perhaps a bit more powerful than the norm. I'm not sure if I should make it an Avenger weapon or if I just should make it slightly better but focused on the same price.

--

Anyways, due to one of my players having no classes at college (a local event that happened over 120-150 years ago that the college celebrates as a holiday), we managed to play once more.

This time, I made a slight change. That player, whom plays the Fighter, made the attack rolls for the Paladin I use as a DMPC, while I made the attack rolls for his Fighter. Everything else (saving throws, skill checks, damage rolls) were done by the respective players (the Fighter's player for the Fighter, I for the Paladin DMPC). We had only two battles (and two nice puzzles), but I got some nice data.

The first battle really didn't deliver decent data, as it was part of the DMG II compound traps (a CR 7 fire summoning trap), but the Fighter was slightly less lethal than before, as the attack rolls were predictably low (one hit and one miss) but he still managed to make a one-hit kill.

The second battle, however, delivered nice results. The group was resting on a refreshment stand (a puzzle on its own), and they had to pay the tab...fighting a flesh golem. The Fighter, believing he could make a decent hit, rushed towards the golem and failed his two attacks, because he decided to lower his BAB through Power Attack (as befitting his usual tactic). The Paladin, however, did a surprising amount of damage as the Fighter's player rolled one of his usual 20s for the Paladin.

The nice result I saw was because of the end result. For starters, the Paladin also used Power Attack, and had the Bard's Inspire Courage bonus on his attack. With his bonus to Charisma, a temporary +2 enhancement bonus on his weapon (thanks to the Warmage's Greater Magic Weapon spell; remember I'm using the Retooled Warmage as a playtest), and even with his expenditure of full BAB he had a +14 on his attack bonus; that means he needed only a 4 on the roll to hit. However, having the 20 AND the Power Attack damage bonus (plus Charisma AND the song AND the enhancement bonus) on a charge (which is ruled to add its attack bonus to its damage after a few effective Fighter levels), he had +21 to damage (without the smite). He rolled maximum damage, so he did a solid 29 points of damage with a battleaxe. If the golem wasn't immune to critical hits, the Paladin would have dealt 87 points of damage on a single hit. Even with the rules on damage reduction (the flesh golem has a DR 4/adamantine, which reduces up to 20% of the maximum damage with a minimum of 4 points), it would have dealt almost 70 points of damage on a single blow. The Paladin that could barely hit the broad side of a barn was merely at 1 HP from finishing the flesh golem (the golem was softened first by a solid Ray of Deanimation from the Warmage, whom gained it through Advanced Learning). The Fighter finished the golem (as usual), but he had to resort to use Power Attack partially in order to succeed on a hit.

There was a third battle, of course, but I expected them to be scared to death; I would have been surprised if the group didn't surrender against 10 iron golems and a chamber that filled with water. The Fighter was a bit worried when his attack of opportunity (using his weapon of legacy) failed against an AC of 30 because he couldn't make the roll on his own. Of course, I made it so that they simply couldn't win the battle (I mean, TEN iron golems, AND the chamber was filling with water?), so I couldn't get more data on a high AC, high DR character.

So, what data can we gather from that?
I can be a sick DM at times. However, it would have been fun to see if they could fight well against an Iron Golem, which has a CR of 4 higher than the entire group.
When the Fighter doesn't have the devil's luck with his rolls, his damage potential reduces considerably. Even with Improved Critical making his fullblade threaten a crit at a range of 17-20, having generally low rolls can be a devastating blow to his damage potential.
Conversely, this was the first time the Paladin did respectable damage WITHOUT his smite. Adding his smite damage (thanks to Improved Smite, he could smite the golem), he would have added between 14-17 extra points of damage, which could have on a lucky crit dealt nearly 135 points of damage. That he could do a respectable 24 (after damage reduction applied) to an enemy with DR and immunity to crits, knowing he has enough attack bonus to bypass the creature's AC, makes a difference.
The delay of Divine Grace hurts a lot. A typical Paladin wouldn't have had troubles crossing the fire summoning trap (which had a series of seven flame torrents) because of the added Charisma to saves. The low Dex of the Paladin (Dex 9) combined with his poor base Reflex saves made him miss quite a bit of the saves. If it weren't because of the Mass Resist Energy spell used by the Warmage, he would have taken quite a bit of damage.
I definitely need to plan a better dungeon. While I (and apparently my players) loved the puzzles presented, there were far too little battles to really make a difference.

Currently, the group is going to check one last dungeon before making a lengthy travel through sea into Sharn, having partly completed their mission. The group has found some crafters that make firearms (and saw the firearms in action), and are taking them away from their employers (after a nasty reality check in which the Paladin, with permission of the players, made an extremely harsh remark against the crafters). What I plan is that the dungeon has several battles (at least 3-4 battles per actual game day) and lasts long enough to drain the resources of the party long enough. The Paladin wasted only four of his 10 spells (2 Cure Minor Wounds, 1 Shield of Faith, 1 Air Walk) and the Warmage only consumed 11 of her 38 daily spells (with Prying Eyes, Greater Magic Weapon, Mass Resist Energy, Telepathic Bond and Keen Edge as buffs and various attack spells), so on a single dungeon with around four total battles the group wasn't really challenged enough (they used only 30%-40% of their spells, hardly a noticeable expenditure of spells). The Paladin also lacked what few other options he could use (Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered, Crusader's Strike) because of the creatures attacked (mostly constructs), but he finally made good use of Power Attack.

Thus, the few petitions I make are as follows: know of any good subterranean vault dungeon that could challenge my party reasonably? I'd like to have about 6-10 total battles, with a total of 3-4 battles per day so that the party is reasonably challenged, as well as a few traps (and maybe one or two puzzles), but mostly so that the party has to depend again on long buffs (those that last more than 10 minutes per caster level). I'd also need to find a good feat for the Paladin for 10th level, and what secondary smite option would be nice to use (Resounding? Blinding? Charging?).

[Cieyrin]

Resounding sounds like good fun to me. Not sure on the feat as I don't know what you have besides Power Attack, Imperious Command and I assume Martial Maneuver(Crusader's Strike). I've always been a fan of Combat Brute, as well as Intimidating Strike is kinda neat. Awesome Smite could be all kinds of amazing, as could Smiting Power and Strength of Conviction. If you want to pursue Initiating, Devoted Bulwark and Faith Unswerving could also be good paths.

[T.G. Oskar]

Resounding sounds like good fun to me. Not sure on the feat as I don't know what you have besides Power Attack, Imperious Command and I assume Martial Maneuver(Crusader's Strike). I've always been a fan of Combat Brute, as well as Intimidating Strike is kinda neat. Awesome Smite could be all kinds of amazing, as could Smiting Power and Strength of Conviction. If you want to pursue Initiating, Devoted Bulwark and Faith Unswerving could also be good paths.

What I got for the DMPC, as well as the alterations currently applied (since I'm also testing for changes to feats):
Least Dragonmark of Sentinel - this one is mostly for flavor, since the character is meant to be a mid-ranking officer of House Deneith. No changes.
Shield Specialization (Tower Shield) - since the character uses a tower shield, to increase its effectiveness (and also for eventual Shield Ward). The feat now grants an increase to max Dex penalty, lowered armor check penalty and armor spell failure. At 10th level it also provides DR.
Shieldmate - changed into a small buff that grants a +2 shield bonus to AC to all allies within 10 ft. At 10th level it should grant a +3 bonus to AC instead. The Paladin doesn't share that benefit (because he's using the shield, after all).
Martial Study (Crusader's Strike) - in case they need a bit of healing in a pinch. So far it hasn't been needed because battles end quite easily.
Power Attack - when I made the change that granted Divine Champions a bonus feat at 2nd level, I added this. At 10th level it allows adding 1.5 times your Strength bonus on each attack.
Improved Smiting - changed so that it allows smiting neutral creatures, as well as doubling the effect of the smite when striking evil creatures.
Imperious Command - no change.

As for the choice of feats, I'm currently looking for ways to deal a bit extra damage and/or expand the options on combat (or outside of it). The dabbling in initiation was mostly to spice things up a bit, but that would be as most I'd dabble in, since I'd need another Martial Study and Devoted Bulwark for Faith Unswerving (though the tricks aren't so bad). Combat Brute requires Improved Sunder, which means not until 12th level. Given the changes to Improved Smite and what I usually launch at my players (Good characters are usually defused through Diplomacy), Strength of Conviction isn't necessary. As for the rest...

Improved Sunder could be a nice choice, but I need to deal with some issues regarding the maneuver. When the Fighter tested for me some of the changes, it wasn't really pretty what happened (the Fighter tried to sunder the unarmed strike of a kuo-toa monk, and it...ended up as a touch attack that dealt damage, so it wasn't really pretty). I would oddly consider it, since the Paladin can make full attacks as standard actions (as well as the Fighter), so he could make a sunder and then make a secondary attack.

Smiting Power is also interesting, considering the changes to overrun. However, there's a slight problem with how smite and overrun would blend: overrun is no longer a standard action, but an action you can make as part of your movement, or part of a charge; meanwhile, smite is activated as part of any melee attack but only once per round.

Seeing how things are going, I'll probably use Awesome Smite. Even though the effect only works when smiting, the increased chances of smiting make it appropriate (especially Overwhelming Smite). It would also work well with Resounding, though not sure how it would work with Tier 2 of the Resounding Smite (if I manage ever to get to that level). I would have gone with Agile Shield Fighter if it weren't because I'm using a tower shield, since the changes to Improved Shield Bash and Agile Shield Fighter make it more than worthwhile (and would have made for a superb shield build).

[T.G. Oskar]

Barring any problems with my health, or unexpected changes, my players and I should have another game on Saturday, and soon we'll have 10th level (and something I wanted to see; the improvements to some of the Paladin's feats). I'll make a slight change on its spellcasting (because they can change spells 1/week, I'll exchange a spell I rarely use from his 1st level spells into either Deafening Clang or Divine Sacrifice, quite probably the former because it's a swift action spell).

Also, because one of my players asked for it (the Fighter, actually); 10th level feat will be Battle Blessing. And eagerly awaiting for 11th level; I spoke with my Fighter player about the 3rd level spells he'll probably choose and he was kinda fuming. Girallon's Blessing FTW!

But, I'm not speaking about this. It's been a bit long since I posted another PrC, and with the Gray Guard released, next in line is...


THE HUNTER OF THE DEAD
(No pic yet, but tempted to add either the guy from the cover of Complete Warrior or Hugh Jackman as Van Helsing)

"In the name of the Bright One, may those bodies defiled into cruel service return to their home in the land! Let those impure souls face the wrath of the Sun!" --typical prayer uttered by the Scarred Knights of the Rising Dawn, an order of hunters of the dead following Pelor, the god of the sun.

Hit Die: d10.

Requirements
To qualify to become a hunter of the dead, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any non-evil
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks
Feats: Track
Special: Able to turn undead
Special: The character must have had a level or ability score drained by an undead creature of Challenge Rating equal to the character’s level -2 or higher. The level loss or ability score loss can be later offset by magic.

Bit demanding requirements, no?

The Track feat requirement is mostly flavor, but there's an ability that does grant you better tracking of undead, and a hunter of the dead should be able to masterfully pursue his or her undying quarry, no? The Knowledge (religion) requirement is a bit more stringent, raised three points higher. Otherwise, this is exactly the same set of requirements as the original Hunter of the Dead. Yet, they look quite a lot, no?

Class Skills
The hunter of the dead class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis) and Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

One of the things that the Hunter of the Dead lacked was a real skill set that reinforced its hunting skills. Gather Information is a necessity to, well, gather clues about where undead may be located, and then find the right track. Survival is meant to allow you to track better (albeit it won't be too necessary, it will be useful for most other tracking necessities), Listen and Spot to tag the quarry, and Intimidate...just for kicks. Oh, and Search to...well, look out for clues and traps. Quite a complete skill list, a nice upgrade from the original.

{TABLE=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|
Fort Save|
Ref Save|
Will Save|Special|Spells per Day
1st|+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Detect undead, hunter spells, smite undead 1/encounter, turn undead|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
2nd|+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Favored enemy (undead) +2, spurn death's touch|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
3rd|+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Improved turning +1, track undead|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
4th|+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Lesser restoration|See text
5th|+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Favored enemy (undead) +4, improved smite undead, smite undead 2/encounter|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
6th|+6|
+5|
+2|
+5|Improved turning +2, seal of bodily purity|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
7th|+7|
+5|
+2|
+5|Restoration|See text
8th|+8|
+6|
+2|
+6|Favored enemy (undead) +6|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
9th|+9|
+6|
+3|
+6|Greater smite undead, improved turning +3|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
10th|+10|
+7|
+3|
+7|Death ward, greater restoration, smite undead 3/encounter|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text[/TABLE]

As you'll notice, the Hunter of the Dead combines stuff from the Paladin and the Ranger, allowing you to deal insurmountable amounts of damage to them.

Some of the main changes, which will be explained later in detail, are the replacement of the fixed spellcasting ability of the PrC to a spellcasting ability increase, with a twist. The class offers better Will saves, and a 8/10ths progression which is considerate enough (could easily be a 7/10ths progression because having Greater Restoration as a spell-like ability really abuses). It loses Positive Energy Burst, though, which was one of the nicest abilities they could have. Then again, that 8th level seems a bit too empty...

Class Features
The following are class features of the hunter of the dead
Spells per Day: At every level except 4th and 7th, a hunter of the dead gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a hunter of the dead, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day. If the hunter of the dead has levels in paladin or ranger, the caster level for those spells is equal to his hunter of the dead class levels plus half his paladin or ranger levels (including 4th and 7th level, unlike other divine spellcasters).
If the hunter of the dead has no levels in a divine spellcasting class, he is treated as having the spellcasting ability of a 5th level paladin. The caster level for spells casted by the hunter of the dead by means of the class is equal to his class level.

Note: if using the Paladin (or the Paladin variants) from Project Heretica, ignore the mention of half caster level for these classes; such Paladins progress their caster level every class level.

As you can see, the class is meant for not only Paladins, but Rangers, Clerics, and even the oddball Fighter that somehow got the ability to turn undead. There are a few ways to acquire it and still be unable to cast spells, so there's a safety measure for that (hence, why it doesn't require you to cast spells).

If you have no spellcasting ability, you get the ability to cast as a 5th level Paladin. This is left ambiguous, in case you don't wish to use the Project Heretica classes, but what it DOES mean is that you'll be able to cast 1st level spells right from the get-go. If you learn how to cast spells that way, then that means all your classes grant spellcasting ability, essentially leaving you with the ability to cast as a 14th level paladin right at the end. Thus, if a Fighter enters Hunter of the Dead after acquiring the ability to turn undead, the Fighter gains free spellcasting ability, so as long as it has the right amount of Charisma (or Wisdom, if you consider the core Paladin). Other classes, including Paladins themselves, progress at 8/10ths of their usual.

As for the little quip, what it means is that Paladins and Rangers get full caster level if they are based on the retooled versions, or full class level + half their class levels if using Core. Thus, a 10th level Paladin/10th level Hunter of the Dead would have a caster level of 20 (if using Project Heretica) or 15 (if using Core). Hence, ignore the quip about half-caster levels.

Detect Undead (Su): A hunter of the dead gains the ability to use detect undead at will as if casting the spell of the same name, except he may activate this ability as a swift action.

While the Project Heretica Paladin loses the ability to sense evil, the Hunter of the Dead DOES need the ability to sense the undead when they get near. Hence, being a prestige class, this minor ability is allowed. Making it a swift action causes the Hunter of the Dead to utter that ominous message; "...they're getting closer...", and everyone suddenly jumps into combat. It makes the ability far more useful than usual.

Hunter Spells (Sp): A hunter of the dead adds the following spells to a single spell list of his choice when taking the first level in the class. The spells are treated as divine spells, using the same ability score modifier, spell slots and caster level as the divine spellcasting class which the hunter of the dead possessed. If the hunter of the dead has any of the spells on his spell list, reduce the spell to the lowest spell level amongst the two per each instance of repeated spell.
1st—bless water, chill touch, cure light wounds, hide from undead, magic weapon, remove fear
2nd—aid, bull’s strength, cure moderate wounds, continual flame, darkvision, eagle’s splendor, owl’s wisdom, remove paralysis
3rd—cure serious wounds, daylight, halt undead, protection from elements, remove disease, searing light, speak with dead
4th—cure critical wounds, death ward, disrupting weapon, freedom of movement

Wow, the Hunter of the Dead gets all those free spells? Dang!

Ironically enough, the Hunter of the Dead GETS all these spells on their original spell lists. Well, most of them, that is (they don't get Aid, nor Bless Water, nor Chill Touch...you get the idea). If you're a Hunter of the Dead that lacked spellcasting ability, you get to add all these spells for free alongside the spells the Paladin gets. Some, of course, are repeated (Paladins get four of the seven free 1st level spells, four of the eight free 2nd level spells at their level and one more at a higher level, and so on), but in case the repeated spell is of a lower level, they get access to it earlier.

As you can see, this benefits Paladins and Rangers more than Clerics, since they get a huge boost to their spell list with magic designed to fight against the undead (such as Disrupting Weapon, or Searing Light). They also get healing spells slightly faster and access to Cure Critical Wounds, both of which lack them.

Project Heretica Paladins get something different. Notice that it says "they are added to the spell list", not added to YOUR spell list. That means Paladins can choose from these spells, most of which are already available to them, and learn them as usual for their spells (thus, they get all Paladin spells, all the Cleric spells available to them, plus the Hunter of the Dead spells they're lacking). Adding all those spells for free would be useful at first, but a tad abusive in the end, once they reach 11th level or so in terms of spellcasting). That also applies to Hunters of the Dead basing their spellcasting from Project Heretica Paladins, because they get the same kind of spellcasting ability. Those Project Heretica Paladins that use the Serenity/Intuition ACF, however, get these spells on their spell list, and they can prepare them as usual; a minor, yet considerable, benefit.

Smite Undead (Su): Once per encounter as part of an attack action, a hunter of the dead may attempt to smite an undead creature with one normal melee attack. The hunter of the dead adds his Wisdom or Charisma modifier to the attack roll (whichever is higher); if successful, the hunter of the dead deals extra damage and causes a special effect. Unlike similar smiting abilities (such as the paladin’s smite evil or the justiciar’s verdict), the special effects caused from smiting undead creatures are fixed and they may not be changed. If the hunter of the dead makes a smite as part of a full attack, he may only use it once per round. At 5th level and again at 10th level, a hunter of the dead gains an extra use of smite undead per encounter.
Unless stated otherwise, a hunter of the dead deals an amount of extra damage equal to his class level, plus levels in another class that grants a smiting ability (such as the paladin’s smite evil ability). As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + the hunter of the dead class level + the hunter of the dead’s Charisma modifier. Furthermore, when smiting an incorporeal undead creature, the attack is treated as if it a ghost touch weapon was used. If the hunter of the dead accidentally smites any other creature besides an undead, smite undead has no effect but the ability is not used for the day.
If the hunter of the dead has levels in paladin and chose blinding for his smite evil’s special effect, levels in hunter of the dead stack with levels in paladin in order to determine the effects of the spell. Uses of smite undead stack with uses of other smite abilities (such as smite evil, verdict or entropic strike) to determine encounter uses of the smite abilities (thus, a 5th level paladin/1st level hunter of the dead has three daily uses of either smite evil or smite undead per encounter).

Question! Can a hunter of the dead smite evil AND smite undead at the same time?

Well...of course not! You either smite the undead, or smite them for being evil, but not both!

Having said that, notice that the smite undead ability is based on either Wisdom OR Charisma. This is for the few Clerics that want to use their smite properly, without having to depend that much on Charisma.

Another thing that you'll notice is that it's based on the Project Heretica Paladin's Smite Evil, which means you can use it in any melee attack, not just as a standard action. This is crucial, because that means you can smite just about any time...well, most of the times, that is. Once per round, of course, but that doesn't mean you can smite the undead creature as an attack of opportunity, no? Damage, of course, will be weak, but it'll increase reasonably.

Turn Undead (Su): A hunter of the dead adds his class levels to his effective cleric level for purposes related to turning undead.

Pretty simple; turn undead progresses as usual. So it either struggles as usual, or sucks as usual. Well, maybe later on it won't suck as usual...

Favored Enemy (Undead) (Ex): At 2nd level and every three levels afterwards, the hunter of the dead studies in detail the behavior and weaknesses of all undead creatures. He gains the favored enemy class ability as that of a ranger, except it only applies to undead creatures. If the hunter of the dead already has undead as a favored enemy, the bonuses granted by this class stack (thus, a 5th level ranger/1st level cleric/2nd level hunter of the dead who has chosen undead as his favored enemy gains a +4 or +6 bonus, depending on whether he added the +2 bonus increase to undead or not).

This is the bone I throw to rangers. They get favored enemy against undead creatures, because it makes a lot of sense.

Note that the quip is writted with the core Ranger on mind. The Retooled Ranger has a different method of gaining Favored Enemy, which allows an increasing bonus on up to five creatures, except that you don't have to add that silly floating bonus (all creatures get the same bonus), and the bonuses apply to different things. The increased bonus does mean something; the Retooled Ranger can gain an unthinkable +12 bonus against undead, while still having a +6 on at least two or three other creatures if it goes Ranger 10/Hunter of the Dead 10. The core Ranger/Hunter of the Dead wouldn't get that same bonus.

One thing I have to mention when dealing with the Retooled Ranger is their eventual ability to replace their favored enemies. In that case, the bonus provided by the prestige class is independent from the bonus provided by the base class itself. That means, of course, if you change your favored enemies as means of a class feature, you still get the favored enemy (undead) bonuses from this class, but you can't alter the favored enemy bonuses from this prestige class as you would from the others.

In simpler terms: assume that the Retooled Ranger chose undead as his favored enemy, and then enters Hunter of the Dead. He probably starts with a +4 bonus with undead and one other creature (as it works for the Retooled Ranger), and by the time it ends with Hunter of the Dead, he'll have a +10 bonus. If he progresses all other levels on Ranger, he'll gain a +6 bonus on THREE creatures, one of which is undead, hence he'll have a +12 bonus. The Ranger also gains the ability to exchange his favored enemies temporarily. If the Ranger were to exchange his favored enemy (undead) bonus from means of the class for, say, favored enemy (dragons), he'll still have the +6 from favored enemy (undead) and gain the bonus when dealing against dragons, but he won't have a +12 bonus on dragons because he can't change the favored enemy (undead) bonuses acquired from Hunter of the Dead.

Clear enough? I don't want people stating that you can gain infinite Favored Enemy bonuses by RAW because of a flimsy interpretation...

Spurn Death’s Touch (Ex): A hunter of the dead of 2nd level or higher adds his Charisma modifier (if positive) to all saving throws against spells and effects used by undead. This ability stacks with any bonus to saving throws that adds the character’s Charisma modifier (such as the paladin’s divine grace ability).

Unlike Smite Undead, this ability is Charisma-exclusive. However, if you want a decent Turn Undead, you'll need Charisma, so it makes some sense.

Improved Turning (Su): At 3rd level, and every three levels afterwards, the turning ability of a hunter of the dead becomes stronger. The hunter of the dead’s effective cleric level for purposes of turning increases by 1.

As you can notice, the Hunter of the Dead gains an improvement to its turning ability. This means Paladins eventually equal regular clerics in their ability to turn undead, while pure clerics exceed the norm. A Paladin could exceed a regular cleric if he or she uses the Seek Eternal Rest spell, and there are other bonuses to make Turn Undead more useful than before.

Undead Tracking (Su): At 3rd level, the hunter of the dead is used to the lingering aura of necromancy left by the undead, as well as the foul smell and the indelible stain of blood they leave at their wake. Whenever the undead roam, the hunter of the dead certainly will follow suit.
A hunter of the dead gains a bonus on Knowledge (religion) checks, as well as Survival checks to track undead creatures equal to half his class level. Furthermore, the hunter of the dead may replace the Survival check to track a creature by a Knowledge (religion) check instead, if the latter is higher. A hunter of the dead that fails his Knowledge (religion) may attempt a Survival check with the same tracking action.

If you're tracking undead, you could use the tracks left by the creature, or use particular quips of knowledge related to the creature itself. For example, you may figure that if a vampire requires sleeping in its native soil, you can make a Knowledge (religion) check to pick up hunches, or perhaps make sense of certain emanations of energy or dropped religious objects and reclaim the track. The ability to instantly make a Survival check if you fail the Knowledge (religion) check makes you a superior tracker, since you could easily keep both abilities as high as possible and use them in tandem. While essentially a minor benefit, it'll be extremely difficult for the DM to actually make an undead enemy evade party persecution.

Lesser Restoration (Sp): At 4th level, a hunter of the dead may expend a daily use of his turn undead ability to cast lesser restoration, as a cleric with a caster level equal to his effective cleric level for purposes of turning undead. The hunter of the dead restores one extra point of ability damage if healing such damage dealt by an undead creature.

At this level, Lesser Restoration may seem like a bit weak, so why not make it a bit more powerful? It's a spell-like ability and you get to heal a bit more if you're dealing with undead creatures (1d4+1, so you'll always heal at least 2 points), essentially for free. Plus, it'll be insanely hard to dispel or nullify.

Improved Smite Undead (Su): At 5th level, the ability of the hunter of the dead to smite undead creatures improves. The smite deals double damage against undead creatures, and if the target undead creature fails a Fortitude save (see Smite Undead for the saving throw DC), it cowers as if it had been turned successfully for 1d4 rounds.

Pretty nasty, no? Cowering for 1d4 rounds effectively takes any undead out of combat, and with the extra damage, you can deal just as much as a regular paladin would while smiting evil (or more, if you're an actual paladin)

Seal of Bodily Purity (Su): At 6th level, whenever a hunter of the dead slays a creature, it imbues the body with a divine seal that protects the corpse from reanimation. This ability is always active, and the seal requires no special activation, but the creature must be reduced to 0 HP or more. The seal remains for a number of days equal to the hunter of the dead class level, and cannot be removed by any means except for break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, wish or similar abilities. If a creature’s corpse sealed by this ability is reanimated by any means as an undead creature (such as by using the animate dead spell, or by being slain by a shadow, a bodak or similar creature), the corpse is immediately and utterly destroyed, spoiling the effect.
A hunter of the dead may place the seal on a living creature, but the effects are normally painful and the creature must be willing. The hunter of the dead may imbue a creature with the seal by etching a mark on the creature’s body representing the seal with a sharp weapon (piercing or slashing), which deals at least 10 points of lethal damage (as the seal has to be carved unto the skin); the creature may be healed afterwards and still retain the effect of the seal for up to a number of days equal to the hunter of the dead class level. Unlike the normal version of the seal, the seal inscribed upon a living creature instead treats the corpse as if under a gentle repose spell for the duration of the seal and merely prevents the creature from being reanimated (instead of destroying the body), but cannot be reformed once the sealed creature perishes. The ritual takes one minute to complete, and may be used as many times per day as the hunter desires.

Very similar, if acquired later, to the True Death ability of the original Hunter of the Dead, this ability allows you to prevent the rise of new undead creatures the Hunter kills. This works even better than the True Death ability, as instead of preventing undead from reanimating, it prevents a creature from becoming undead in the first place!

Note that, as this works with living creatures as well, your party can be protected from respawning as undead for quite some time, and the damage dealt is eventually insignificant. Since it allows the ally to act as if under a Gentle Repose spell, that means the body is also preserved fresh, in case they need a resurrection later on. Very useful ability, if you tell me.

Restoration (Sp): At 7th level, a hunter of the dead gains the ability to use the restoration spell three times per day as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to the his effective cleric level for turning undead. Once the three uses per day are used, the hunter of the dead may use it one more time per day by expending two daily uses of his turn undead ability.

Having Restoration for free, as a spell like ability, without the material component requirement, is a godsend. You'll probably no longer use the Lesser Restoration ability ever, but you'll consume your uses of Turn Undead real fast. Thus, all Hunters of the Dead gain three freebie uses without expending their uses of Turn Undead, making the ability even more useful.

Greater Smite Undead (Su): At 9th level, the ability of a hunter of the dead to smite undead creatures reaches a stumbling conclusion. If the undead creature fails its Fortitude saving throw against the smite, it is immediately destroyed; a creature’s turn resistance applies as a bonus on the creature’s Fortitude save in this case. If the save fails, the creature merely cowers for 1d4 rounds.

Can you say "disrupting smite"? Yes, yes you can. This is the ultimate weapon against undead, because just a single use takes the worst undead out of commission. The nasty lich guy? Cowering or destroyed. The nasty dragon zombie, ridden by a fell death knight? Cowering or destroyed, and you can make sure the death knight is next. Vecna? ...Erm, maybe not, but if you can make Vecna cower for 1d4 rounds, you are epic beyond belief.

Did I mention Vecna is treated as an undead god? Mwahaha!!

Death Ward (Su): At 10th level, the hunter of the dead is immune to effects that would otherwise slay him. He is treated as if under the effect of a permanent death ward spell with a caster level equal to the hunter of the dead effective cleric level to turn undead or his character level, whichever is higher.

The original Hunter of the Dead had a similar ability that made you immune to energy drain; while good, it was seriously weak. This is a true, fitting capstone; immunity to negative energy, ability drain, ability damage, energy drain and instant death effects makes you utterly relentless (and necromancy powerless against you...well, to an extent).

Greater Restoration (Sp): At 10th level, a hunter of the dead gains the ability to use the greater restoration spell three times per day as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to the his effective cleric level for turning undead. Once the three uses per day are used, the hunter of the dead may use it one more time per day by expending three daily uses of his turn undead ability.

Hunter of the Dead will probably pass in history as the only retooled PrC with two capstones. Having permanent Death Ward is great, but having the ability to cast Greater Restoration (one of the best healing spells round for non-HP healing), three times per day for free (and then using daily uses of TU)? The only thing that is lamentable is that Greater Restoration has an experience cost, so you can't get that requirement away from you. But hey, otherwise you can restore negative levels for free! Even clerics are gonna love this capstone!

So, as usual: comments? Questions? I wanna make a movie with a character as awesome as this hunter of the dead? Bubba-Hotep was a better hunter than this one?

Thus far, all we're left with is Knight of the Chalice, the improved items for divine champions, and the other addendum. I'm also planning to alter Stunning Smite a bit, lower it down in terms of power, which will come soon enough.

[T.G. Oskar]

Bit of a heads up: after some consideration, I decided to nerf Stunning Smite at the first two tiers. This is how it works now, to make it easier:

Stunning (Tier 1): Will save or stunned for 1 round. Undead are affected by this ability; constructs are not.
Stunning (Tier 2): Will save or paralyzed for 1 round. Undead are affected by this ability; constructs are not. Characters with Freedom of Movement unaffected.
Stunning (Tier 3): Ignore Freedom of Movement and immunity to stunning/paralysis; failed save causes stun for 1 round.

The idea is as follows: Tier 1 Stunning is now comparable to Stunning Fist (requires hitting, blocked by a Fortitude save). A paladin will have more uses, but only one use per encounter, while the monk will eventually have more uses.

Tier 2 Stunning is still quite powerful for 5th level, but only for a short while, and a successful save nulls the effect, so it's pretty close to what Monks would get a few levels afterwards with Freezing the Lifeblood, or what Clerics get early on with Hold Person. Note that Ghouls and Ghasts get paralysis earlier than a Paladin would, and lasting longer than 1 round. The very odd Rast does paralysis on a cone range, and has better abilities roughly at the same moment the Paladin gets this ability. So I expect no excuses on whether the ability is still too strong. Undead and Constructs are treated as dazed instead,

Tier 3, however, holds a great deal of its power. By this level paralysis is something of the past (thanks in no means by immunities and Freedom of Movement), yet there are lots of spells and abilities that cause damage AND status effects regardless of the saving throw, so it's reasonable that a failed saving throw enables stunning. It's still for 1 round, which means it won't last enough.

Now, is this still TOO much for the Stunning Smite (arguably the only smite method that has caused too many problems), or is it balanced enough? I might attempt to dumb it down a bit more, BUT not enough to make it pointless. Daze is only managed once, and it remains firmly within stunning and paralysis, which have several creatures immune to.

[Cieyrin]

New Stunning Smite looks fine to me. Speaking of Smites, is the Hunter of the Dead's first tier supposed to have a secondary effect or does it just do damage? Also, you make the attack bonus Wis or Cha, I find it odd that the save also doesn't have that choice but perhaps that's just me.

[T.G. Oskar]

New Stunning Smite looks fine to me. Speaking of Smites, is the Hunter of the Dead's first tier supposed to have a secondary effect or does it just do damage?

Mostly damage, though you get a free Ghost Touch effect with incorporeal undead (thus, you ignore their miss chances because of incorporeality). So it gets its own tier effect.


Also, you make the attack bonus Wis or Cha, I find it odd that the save also doesn't have that choice but perhaps that's just me.

Well, as I mentioned, you still need a wee bit of Charisma for Turn Undead (both the turning checks and the turning damage), so it wasn't really much of a concern. However, I have that in mind, and I'm not really sure whether I'd keep it as is or make a change much like the Smite does. There are two classes which are expected to have higher Wis than Cha, with the Paladin being the inverse effect, so this might get a change (even if it implies adding Wisdom twice).

--

Having said that, I got to play with my friends once more, and this time it was a bit special. The Bard had some issues as how he couldn't contribute more than just singing (and outside of battle, but he wanted to contribute a bit more INSIDE of battle), so I spoke with him as he made me a lot of questions regarding DDO (another thing we share). Since he's now learning the ropes of optimization, I made him the rare offer of rebuilding his character from the ground up, not based off the PHB II retraining rules but keeping something from them (basically the rebuild quests). The Fighter expressed his concerns about doing nothing more than damage, and had to swallow the hard pill that the Fighter had no remedy (even if he's the top damage dealer, the fact that he failed a Will save against a Death Urge traumatized him a bit), so he decided to rebuild as well. Since the Paladin would have been left behind, the Fighter player decided that he should get a boost just because of being half-way there, so he'd be rebuilt with the same abilities but with 32-point buy, and he'd get a decent magic weapon now.

The session was spent on each character's individual rebuild quest. As a special mission for them, I would allow them to control the Paladin DMPC's actions in combat. The Bard's rebuild quest was hilariously easy: basically, he met Tasselhoff in a dream and reunited with his long-lost bear friend (which showed an unusual depth of intellect, beyond the norm for an animal, but that doesn't mean the bear was awakened), and realized the main threats of the campaign (the Quori conquering Khorvaire, the Demon in the Flame breaking free of its prison, the defeat of the Gatekeepers and the resurgence of the Daelkyr, and the Lord of Blades) through a prophetic dream. His rebuild quest was simple as we started late and I had nothing to face him (and he prefers roleplaying), so he had the choice to return to Krynn or help the Gatekeepers but at the cost of forever remaining on Eberron. His reward was the total rebuild, with a new focus of entering Fochlucan Lyrist with a Bard basis (he already had the levels in Rogue, and he was mostly interested in the bardic abilities over being a Druid; the latter is just icing in the cake, and his "animal companion" progresses independently from the Druid class thanks to Wild Cohort). The Fighter's rebuild quest was a bit more combat-focused, with the Fighter having round 2 with his fated nemesis. This time, the Fighter was nearly handed his buttocks to him (his nemesis was fully buffed), and it was a mid-combat upgrade (replacing 2 levels in Fighter with 2 levels in Warblade) that gave him the win (after a fisticuff fight between the two, with both of the warrior's weapons disabled). The Fighter (because he considers himself still one) will test a PrC retool of mine, but he was constantly cursing that I led him into a trap that was so good he had to make various changes (such as changing his alignment from Chaotic to Lawful, his levels in Fighter, and rearranging his skills into something different).

However, what I wish to explain in detail was the Paladin's rebuild quest, which I feared he wouldn't succeed. The reason is manifold; for the first time the Paladin would have a solo battle (all this time the Paladin had his allies to bail him out), he would be used by my players, and I would finally test the Blackguard in combat. You see, his rebuild quest was basically his test of faith, and was literally ripped off Final Fantasy IV's Mount of Ordeals; with a mirror at his front, he was confronted by evil into realizing he was weak and unable to contribute unless he fell. The Paladin riposted in many ways, having a psychological battle in which I used my pals to figure out which were his down moments (where he acted less than heroic) and his up moments (where he acted as a paragon of Law and Good). Then, he was confronted with his three main fears: that he was envious of his Fighter friend for his fighting capabilities, that he was too weak to protect those he admired (using the Warmage as an example) and that his travels were nothing more than a bid for fame and fortune instead of fighting for justice (using the Bard for that); there was a moment when Evil mentioned his flaw, how the Paladin thought of it, how would the Paladin be better off if he fell and became evil, and the Paladin's response of why he should remain good.

And, because it was a cliche-storm in the coming, I did what every single Paladin must prove himself for: facing his dark side. Which, quite conveniently, was a Blackguard with his same stats, similar equipment, but the opposite focus (the Paladin is focused on protecting his allies, the Blackguard was designed to focus on offensive). With many feats shared (Power Attack, Improved Smite) and the opposites of the Paladin's abilities (Weakening Smite for Stunning Smite, Covetous and Cruelty Auras for Devotion and Vigor Auras, Stand upon Adversity vs. Thrive upon Pain), this was the battle in which I would draw a great deal of data. And of course, to prevent having my players bored, I made them control my Paladin while I controlled his Blackguard/evil twin. Did I mentioned his evil twin was a Vasharan?

There was one catch, though; I would test something else, and that was the fix I made to the Holy Avenger. Thus, while the Paladin used nothing else but a masterwork battleaxe, the Blackguard was sporting a +2 unholy metalline greataxe that emitted a Magic Circle against Good effect as a 9th level caster. The weapon grows with its wielder, so it eventually will become a +5 weapon at the right moment, and then become an epic weapon eventually.

The fight began, and the Paladin won initiative (for one of the few moments he did). The first two rounds were spent buffing: the Paladin used Shield of Faith and Magic Weapon, the Blackguard used Divine Favor and Divine Sacrifice. The Blackguard drew first blood by using Aura of Cruelty, which dealt a decent 6 points of damage. The third round was spent as both divine champions used Dispel Magic against each other, with the Paladin dispelling both buffs while the Blackguard could only dispel Shield of Faith. They also drew near enough, so that they could engage in combat.

Fourth round began with the Paladin taking the offensive right from the onset (this coming from the Fighter player, who likes offensive). He made a full attack, with the second attack being Smite Evil; both attacks hit (with full Power Attack), which dropped the Blackguard right into near-submission (from 82 hit points to 11!), thanks in no part to the 51 points of damage from the smite (because Improved Smite doubles the extra smite damage). The Blackguard riposted by making the same thing, lowering the paladin's hit points by below half, except the Blackguard didn't use Power Attack; the combination of the unholy weapon, the smite (whose also dealt double damage because of Improved Smite), and the greataxe damage, took the Paladin below half of his hit points (but JUST enough to prevent maximum damage). Both gentlemen succeeded on their saves, so no bad effects (and with Stunning Smite nerfed, the Blackguard couldn't be dazed). This meant Stand upon Adversity and Thrive upon Pain both activated, with the Paladin getting the temporary hit points while the Blackguard began with extra damage.

Fifth round was spent with the Paladin missing his attacks (the first normal attack and the second smite attack), while the Blackguard riposted using the Vampiric Touch SLA, recovering just enough HP to equal the Paladin (while dealing damage to the latter). Sixth round also began with the Paladin failing, while the Blackguard used his Anklet of Translocation and Ray of Exhaustion. Luckily the Paladin made his save and with Mettle, the ray had NO effect whatsoever.

At the seventh round, I suggested the group used the Paladin's Javelin of Lightning, which could deal the Blackguard some damage. The Fighter, being of one track mind, decided that he would give melee one more shot. This time, however, he charged, activating smite along the way (remember smite can be activated as part of a melee attack, not as a standard action). This time, the Paladin expended a 2nd level spell slot for a 1st level spell, namely Deafening Clang (so all of his attacks dealt an extra 1d6 points of sonic damage and deafening). Finally, the Paladin dealt another hit, once again exceeding the 50 point mark, but that was just enough; the Blackguard had less than 35 HP, so it was an instant kill. Cinematics aside, the blackguard lost his nifty avenger weapon, while the Paladin got his own. Since he already dealt a lot of damage, adding an extra 2d6 on the long run wouldn't mean so much (BTW, the Paladin dealt 8 extra damage). After a grueling battle, the Paladin proved his worth and emerged victorious, with the Fighter once again stating his pride that the divine champion was finally doing the damage he deserved. Thus, he proved himself worthy of his rebuilding: 32-point buy stat retooling, and a magic weapon that progresses with his own.

Of course, I was highly satisfied with the results. Quite satisfied. Here are the highlights of the Paladin:
While taking a while, the Paladin constantly dealt damage over the 50 HP mark with the smite, and 30 HP commonly.
Having smite not be expended on a failed attack roll proved extremely worthwhile. Otherwise, the Paladin would have only succeeded on a single smite attempt.
While cheating to an extent, the Paladin showed some synergy with his abilities. Although failed, the Aura of Vigor coupled with Crusader's Strike would have healed the Paladin for quite a lot (at least 17 points of damage, a maximum of 22 give or take). Deafening Clang + Smite Evil (stunning) + Power Attack dealt quite a bit of damage, from differing sources, and the 2d6 from holy almost broke the 60 HP mark.
Dispel Magic at early levels is not really broken, but can be a lifesaver. Had the Paladin and the Blackguard rushed into combat instead of using Dispel Magic on their respective opponents, the Paladin would have had a +3 to AC, but the Blackguard would have had a +3 to attack and damage rolls, and deal 5d6 on his first attack.
The Paladin still didn't use most of his magic items, which meant he won the battle by means of his class abilities, at a reduced set of ability scores. He could have used his javelin, teleport 10 ft., use his healing belt with extra healing, attack from a distance, and so on.
The Displacement special quality is a true lifesaver. The Blackguard missed most of his attacks because of not reaching the Paladin's AC, but the one hit that WOULD have succeeded was denied because of the miss chance. Blurring might be better in the long run (because of the multiple uses), but a 50% miss chance in a duel was a definite lifesaver.
It's a shame that I couldn't get to use Imperious Command, because I would have loved to see the reaction on the Blackguard.

Meanwhile, here are the highlights on the evil twin, the Blackguard:
Without using Power Attack, the Blackguard easily dealt damage over the 50 HP mark. Using a two-handed weapon, the Blackguard could deal as much damage with a smite than the Paladin could while using Power Attack; had the latter also appeared, the Blackguard would have probably one-shotted the Paladin easily.
Having smite not be expended on a failed attack roll proved extremely worthwhile. While the Blackguard had the chance to apply the smite on a single roll,
Aura of Cruelty was just annoying. Just mentioning my players "the Paladin takes 6 points of damage" was puzzling for them. The Paladin began with less HP than the Blackguard because of it. Also, Strength x 1.5 as damage is definitely brutal, but oddly fair. Maybe with a Strength of 22 or higher can Aura of Cruelty be considered abusive.
With Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Exhaustion, the Blackguard could have definitely annihilated the Paladin. Had the Blackguard fought differently in the first place, the Paladin would have had no chance. Still, Divine Favor + Divine Sacrifice was no slouch either.
Vampiric Touch is great. While the total amount of healing was 21 points, it was enough to make the Blackguard go from near-dead to moderately well, and an extra shot would have been deadly for the Paladin.
Unlike the Paladin, the Blackguard made good use of his items. Anklet of Translocation to create distance between the duelists and Vampiric Torc as an attempt to recover hit points from the damage (despite failing the attempt) gave spice to the duel, but weren't necessary on their own.
The Blackguard has many ways to debuff his opponents and restore HP while dealing damage, which can make the class a fitting boss battle with little effort. Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion and the Weakening Smite could have easily taken a very strong man into the units, and a low-strength character into the floor and ready to be dispatched. Meanwhile, the Vampiric Torc, Vampiric Touch and the Aura of Covetous supplied some offensive support and mostly healing from different sources, reinforcing the Blackguard's stamina.

As a reward, the Paladin now has a +2 holy metalline battleaxe which emits a Magic Circle against Evil (thus, he basically acquired his Divine Avenger, which was his masterwork battleaxe in the first place), a boost into 32-point buy range, and Action Points to equal the group. Thus, he now boasts a Strength of 16, a Constitution of 18 and a Charisma of 18 without stat-enhancing items, alongside an Intelligence of 10. The battle was enough to raise the Paladin a level, which granted the following abilities (most of which were suggestions given by you guys):
Smite Evil 3 times per encounter, and Resounding Smite as a secondary smite method.
An effective Fighter level of 6th, which means improvements to Power Attack, Shield Specialization and Shieldmate.
Power Attack now allows the Paladin to add 1.5 times his Strength to damage while wielding a one handed weapon, meaning he adds at least 4 points of damage from his Strength, which coupled with his Charisma he deals at least 8 points on average. He also gets a "buffer" of +1 on his attack rolls when he lowers his BAB by 2, so he'll miss less.
Shield Specialization grants the Paladin DR 2/- by means of his tower shield, so he can reduce 10% of all damage he receives, to a minimum of 2 points.
Shieldmate grants his allies a +3 shield bonus to Armor Class while within 10 ft., which with the +2 deflection bonus to AC from Magic Circle against Evil means they get a net +5 bonus to AC, +9 if you factor the Aura of Devotion bonus.
A bonus feat, which is Awesome Smite
A new spell known, which is obviously Bull's Strength.

I started to notice this early on, but I notice the 10th level of Paladin really turns the tables around. The Paladin gets a good variety in spells and smites, and a great amount of feats to make a definite build. The effect is slightly magnified when you consider the table uses a form of scaling feats based on the character's effective Fighter level, which is why Power Attack, Shield Specialization and Shieldmate have these newer abilities, meaning the Paladin gets even more from reaching 10th level. 11th level will once again turn the tables around with the addition of 3rd level spells, which are mostly decided (Girallon's Arms, yum!), alongside the long-awaited Divine Grace ability.

So: questions? Comments? I definitely feel comfortable with this turn of events, given that I was feeling frustrated with the Paladin dealing so little damage and nearly contributing nothing, but with some extra effort and focus it started to shine a bit. I would have loved to see more of the Paladin's abilities get used (the Intimidate, for example) but what I saw was great enough (Dispel Magic, Deafening Clang, the smite nerf not disrupting the game but reinforcing it), and I know that more levels will involve even more data available, now that some of my concerns were resolved and done in agreement with the players (the lack of a magic weapon, the ability scores and the odd weapon selection). The Paladin still needs some more data recollecting, now that the Fighter will become a brutal menace (martial maneuvers plus testing a retooled PrC of my own), so it's an entirely new ballgame now.

[T.G. Oskar]

Sorry for the double post, but otherwise it wouldn't reveal the update.

Just as an addendum: the Paladin also got five +1 returning javelins (his old javelins magically turned into those), so he has some sort of decent ranged choice.

The Fighter player is planning to make a retooling of the class with me, but I plain explained to him that I plan to demote the Fighter class into the Warrior NPC and make the Warblade the official Fighter class. He sorta agrees, but he's still going with revamping the Fighter, so wish him luck. He's kinda new at the homebrewing thing. In the meanwhile, I decided to allow him to use some of the stuff from the Pathfinder Fighter, such as Bravery, Armor and Weapon Training (with the bonus from CMB turned into a bonus on opposed checks instead), keeping the 4+Int skill points per level and the expanded spell list (which has, amongst other things, Sense Motive as a "defensive" and social skill). We'll see how that works, and what ideas can he bring to the game.

The Bard is going Fochlucan Lyrist (I think I mentioned that), while the Fighter is gonna playtest a retooled Complete Warrior PrC. The only clue is hidden within my username; kudos to whom gets it. And it's a combination of two classes.

[NineThePuma]

Knight protector?

[Elfstone]

That or Purple Dragon Knight. I thought the Protecter was to defensive, so I looked for the only other PrC with elements from two classes (Bard and knight).

[Elfstone]

Adding links to the two new classes from the OP would be nice.

Also, a few abilities headings in the knight-hospitaller need to be bolded.

Just stuff I noticed when rereading the thread.

EDIT:
And the justicar has the bonus feat ability listed twice.. Once at 2nd and again at 6th.. Why?

[TravelLog]

I'll wager on Thayan Knight.

[T.G. Oskar]

Knight protector?


That or Purple Dragon Knight. I thought the Protecter was to defensive, so I looked for the only other PrC with elements from two classes (Bard and knight).


I'll wager on Thayan Knight.

Nope, nope and nope.

I mentioned a few clues, which were pretty vague. I'll expand on them and clarify others.
The first clue is being a PrC from Complete Warrior. That's pretty easy.
The second needs to be clarified quite a bit. The PrC itself isn't a combination of two classes; the retooling ends up being a combination of two PrCs, though.
Third, that the clue was on my username. That's the most vague of them all, but it's also a topic on the Gaming forum...actually a topic AND a Let's Play.

It was odd to see Knight Protector, because the Fighter's player would probably go Frenzied Berserker rather than Knight Protector (no, it's not Frenzied Berserker by the way...) The PrC he chose was to improve his combat skills furthermore while allowing him to diversify a bit.


Adding links to the two new classes from the OP would be nice.

Also, a few abilities headings in the knight-hospitaller need to be bolded.

Just stuff I noticed when rereading the thread.

EDIT:
And the justicar has the bonus feat ability listed twice.. Once at 2nd and again at 6th.. Why?

Thanks for the heads-up.

As for the bonus feat ability listed "twice", it's working as intended. All divine champions get feats at 2nd level and every 4 class levels afterwards. Thus, they get a free bonus feat at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th and 18th levels.

In the case of the anarch, though, it was because when I made the change, I apparently copied it instead of cutting and pasting. The idea was moving feats earlier because of issues with lack of offensive options at the earliest levels. That'll be fixed as well.

[NineThePuma]

KP was released in 3.5 as Knight Protector of The Great/Grand Order, iirc. Hence why I asked.

[Cieyrin]

Nope, nope and nope.

I mentioned a few clues, which were pretty vague. I'll expand on them and clarify others.
The first clue is being a PrC from Complete Warrior. That's pretty easy.
The second needs to be clarified quite a bit. The PrC itself isn't a combination of two classes; the retooling ends up being a combination of two PrCs, though.
Third, that the clue was on my username. That's the most vague of them all, but it's also a topic on the Gaming forum...actually a topic AND a Let's Play.

It was odd to see Knight Protector, because the Fighter's player would probably go Frenzied Berserker rather than Knight Protector (no, it's not Frenzied Berserker by the way...) The PrC he chose was to improve his combat skills furthermore while allowing him to diversify a bit.

That third clue suddenly crystalized for me, as I'm following that LP, which leads me to posit that it's Knight of the Chalice.

[T.G. Oskar]

That third clue suddenly crystalized for me, as I'm following that LP, which leads me to posit that it's Knight of the Chalice.

You're on the right track, but how exactly did you end up with Knight of the Chalice? I dunno how that relates with Orland(ea)u, after all.

[Cieyrin]

You're on the right track, but how exactly did you end up with Knight of the Chalice? I dunno how that relates with Orland(ea)u, after all.

I thought FFT and my thoughts immediately descended onto your rewrite of Hexblade. Since you said new class, I thought of the opposite of Hexblade, making me think of Agrias and thus Knight of the Chalice. Though, since you gave me a specific name, I now see I should have stuck with my initial instinct of Kensai.

[TravelLog]

Kensai hmm? Looking forward to seeing it. I recently did my own take on the Kensei (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12041518#post12041518), based on Musashi's Go Rin No Sho, so I'm interested to see where you take it!

[T.G. Oskar]

The good thing is that I'll have a chance to test how it works, specifically how it works in high-level play. The Fighter player loves doing absurd amounts of damage per hit, but felt like missing some versatility so his rebuild quest made him take a few levels in Warblade in order to get the necessary maneuvers and the recovery rate.

The Sword Saint (which is the literal translation of "kensei", hence the clue being in my name as the class Orland[ea]u belongs to is actually Sword Saint and he was also the inspiration for the class) blends Kensei with...Master of Nine. Thus, it was turned into a proper ToB class, with the fluff of being a consummate master in all sword schools (including homebrewed disciplines), but at the same time a specialist with a specific weapon. While they no longer can enchant their weapon to their own needs (they get a pseudo-enhancement), they still are extremely powerful with their signature weapon (perhaps a bit too powerful: competence bonus on attack and damage rolls, shifting weapon special qualities based on the stance you assume, and eventually the ability to turn any weapon you wield into a likeness of your signature weapon), they progress maneuvers like a Swordsage, gain Dual Boost AND Dual Stance (but with the requirement of wielding a specific weapon), has Withstand, Instill and Power Surge turned into maneuver-consuming class features (counter, stance and boost respectively), and much more. It's the realization of what Reshar would be if he was given levels, since he's meant to be a master of all nine schools and while he reunited all Nine Swords, he seems to always use the same weapon; given what the kensei is meant to represent, it makes sense he literally becomes a "sword saint".

Of course, that degree of playtesting will allow me to see if it needs a few nerfs or if it works as intended, although it IS a very potent class IMO. I have no regrets to know the Half-Giant Fighter will choose Fullblades as his signature weapons (though only HIS weapon will be Large-sized...), and given his actual damage output, he'll just go insane with sheer damage. That he can do that mostly unbuffed (he does has the Bard's songs and the Paladin's auras affecting him, plus the Warmage's Haste spell which will no longer apply as I'm gonna retire the character in favor of playtesting another class) means the class is really a brutal upgrade to his fighting abilities, though his choice of powers will make him a bit more of a team player (he has Leading the Attack, after all, and with Instill he'll grant the Bard better BAB and perhaps better Fort saves), so he'll do fine.

That, and he's just drooling for Weapon Supremacy. For a good reason, tho: the feat got boosted real good, going all over the top.

[Cieyrin]

My only question about the Kensei (which was different than I was expecting, certainly, as I think we were all thinking of combining base classes, not taking the original prestige class and absorbing another prestige class) is how one consumes a stance for Instill? Stances are never expended by any stretch of the term. Did you mean Boosts?

[NineThePuma]

All I can think of is something along the lines of "Karen? Is that you?" but yeah.

Dare I ask what you're playtesting?

[T.G. Oskar]

My only question about the Kensei (which was different than I was expecting, certainly, as I think we were all thinking of combining base classes, not taking the original prestige class and absorbing another prestige class) is how one consumes a stance for Instill? Stances are never expended by any stretch of the term. Did you mean Boosts?

It's not really "expending" the stance more than "foregoing its normal benefit". It works exactly as Mountain Fortress Stance or Eye of the Storm, which work as if you had gained new stances but build upon existing ones. Instill works based off any stance (it's like if you had gained a new stance overall, but builds upon the general idea of a stance; if I had to give it a restriction, it'd definitely be White Raven tho). It doesn't work as the Kensai's Instill ability either, because you get a "fixed" penalty (more like a penalty based on your class level) but everyone gains the benefit as if you had expended all of your BAB and saves. Thus, a Sword Saint can make all allies superb fighting machines, especially if they wield the Saint's signature weapon.


All I can think of is something along the lines of "Karen? Is that you?" but yeah.

Dare I ask what you're playtesting?

Many things. For starters, some feats that I've been working with (going with the idea of stacking feats, but instead of BAB or self-stacking I go for effective Fighter levels, to make taking Fighter more effective AND the reason why I add up all of those "effective Fighter levels" notations). And...their new companion is a Shugenja. Specifically, a Lawful Evil Water-specialized Hobgoblin Shugenja, built up as a PC in terms of stats but as an NPC for everything else. Water Shugenja aren't so bad, though, as they get all cold attack spells aside from healing, and their spell list is MUCH larger. Not to mention all other stuff (how orders work, the addition of ki, their fetish with scrolls and whatnot). Oh, and the Avenger weapons; the Paladin is using one now, as I mentioned, which automatically grants him a +2 Holy Metalline Battleaxe with a Magic Circle against Evil effect, which will become a +3 weapon at 12th level. Then there's Alchemical Grenades, which take the alchemical weapons and make them much better.

Really, I'm playtesting a lot of stuff, and that's not even the tip of the iceberg. I'm gonna see if I can make some tests with another group of NPCs: an Archivist/Wizard with retooled Mystic Theurge, retooled Warlock/retooled Sorcerer with Eldritch Theurge, and a Changeling Factotum going into Chameleon with levels in Rogue and that dabbles in Incarnum, binding, truenaming and maneuvers, or her Factotum/Binder twin brother that does almost exactly the same thing except he's evil and serves The Mockery. Still not enough stuff.

[NineThePuma]

Heh... Hobgoblins. :3

I look forward to seeing more from the Ki-tools. Honestly, most of your work isnimpressive, and I guess I'll sit back and wait to see the next batch of material.

[Elfstone]

That's awesome. Although that's not the Kensai I was expecting I look forward to it. When should we expect it on the boards?

Having tested the theurge I have found it to be very nice and I recommend it to everyone. (Admittedly I play it as a level 12 gestalt caster using the retooled warmage//wizard/cleric/retooled theurge, leaving me with a huge number of spells and tremendous boosts to almost all of my spells. using The Tome by frank and k adds some awesome spell casting feats as well. In general it's one of my favorite pc's. He should be getting some combat testing soon.)

Anyway, I would love to see the spellthief get some love in the retooling department. Have you ever considered it?

[T.G. Oskar]

That's awesome. Although that's not the Kensai I was expecting I look forward to it. When should we expect it on the boards?

Not entirely sure when, since the last presentation was a group of prestige classes and before that was a class (alongside a companion PrC), and I have a lot of stuff to present. I'm itching for a base class this month, inclining towards the retooled Soulborn or the retooled Dragon Shaman (and the latter I promised I'd show already to someone through PMs), so it'll take some time and also some playtesting.

Fortunately, that's what my group and I did today, so here's the results:

For starters, I think I deserve an achievement, even if minor: I managed to finish a session (and the end of a long campaign arc) while having remnants of the flu and some indigestion. Took somewhere between 6-8 hours of play, so it was quite a good session.

We only had one fight, and it was sort of an introduction: the group made a three-month trip from the Lhazaar Principalities into Trolanport, where they'd meet with their patron, deliver the "goods", and basically turn rich (their patron promised around 50% of the earnings of the items they procured for him, divided equally between all members). It'll take a game year for that to happen (or earlier!), but firearms will finally reach Khorvaire!

The battle was meant to introduce the Hobgoblin Shugenja, which has also been retooled and which I wanted to playtest. This also meant the last participation of the female Gray Elf Warmage, which departed the group in pursuit of her mission. The Shugenja was pursued by four Spectres (fluffed as hobgoblin spirits), and the group decided to help her. The group spent about half a minute buffing: imbuing the Bard's sithak with Greater Magic Weapon, applying Mass Fire Shield, the Paladin applying Shield of Faith to himself and the Fighter...I mean, the Sword Saint, and finally having the Warmage use Teleport to move the party 100 ft. into the coast from the boat.

The battle started with the Fighter/Sword Saint charging through one of the Specters and using White Raven Tactics to give the Paladin the next turn; his charge failed because of incorporealness (except for the Psychokinetic Burst die, which being force damage bypassed etherealness, so he did some minor damage). The Paladin then decided to use TURN UNDEAD!!!!! on two of the specters, failing miserably (low turning check, alas). The Specters went next, whiffing most of the group except for the Sword Saint and the Shugenja, the latter suffering negative levels (the Fighter/Sword Saint should have also suffered negative levels, but he would have ignored them BY CROM!!! by the sheer power of his newfound badassery). The Warmage went next, using Arc of Lightning with her Warmage Edge to essentially finish two of the specters on her own (by failing their Reflex saves AND their miss chances). The Shugenja went dead last, casting Ice Storm to attempt to damage the Specters, but both passed their checks, sadly, so no damage for them.

Next turn, the Fighter/Sword Saint went again, this time going with Burning Brand and a full attack; once again, he whiffed on both, but Psychokinetic Burst still delivered. The Paladin went with his attacks on the Specter that hit the Shugenja, and missed the first one...but luckily, and realizing I had chosen that feat for 10th level, decided to pull off a Smite. I only added 2 points to Power Attack, but that was enough to enable Awesome Smite, and thus use Seeking Smite. The Specter went from over its HP limit to less than 1/3rd that amount in a single blow! The Warmage finished the battle in no time with a divided Magic Missile Barrage, which with her Warmage Edge meant she didn't have to roll for anything (the damage alone took both to 0 HP, so they got destroyed. Big time).

So, despite being a short battle that lasted nearly nothing, what can we learn from this?
Awesome Smite is...well, awesome! Although the Paladin didn't use full Power Attack, the fact that he could deal a solid hit AND threaten to daze the Specter (because of how Stunning Smite is currently written) was a big boon.
The Warmage stopped being just decent and entered into frickin' ridiculous status. Hence, after this battle, she "retired" from adventuring. Really, she basically finished the battle by herself.
Displacement against Specters are a lifesaver. Even if they have Blind-Fight (these ones didn't, mostly because I didn't want for them to suddenly drain the party into nothingness), a 50% chance even for a minute is definitely not something to laugh at.
Turn Undead, as usual, sucks. It's too bad I'm hesitating on Divine Might, because adding three times Charisma to attack (when smiting and wielding a shield) and twice to damage (when wielding a shield) seems a tad ridiculous.
With three uses of Smite per encounter, now it's the time to see the Paladin use more smites. The 5+Paladin level damage increase is also a very decent move, if only because it allowed the Paladin to deal decent damage without going overboard, and the rider effect compensates for the lack of damage.
The Devotion Aura really shone over here. A +4 to AC that applies to touch attacks can be a lifesaver, especially with the low rolls and the low to-hit.
The retooling for the Holy Avenger is pretty helpful as well. A +2 weapon with holy was a heaven-sent weapon.

The introduction to the Shugenja ended with a sour note (the Bard first handled her ritual dagger which nearly gets him killed, then handled her ofudas, and finally her spell component pouch), so the Bard has a future enemy whom is supposed to be their next "ally". Not to mention how I'm leading my Bard player into going (sorta shoehorned him into the Gatekeepers, whereas the Hobgoblin Shugenja is an aberration huntress) and how the group will meet paths with her again. Oh, and I cheated the Bard player of his bear once again. Not intended, tho.

After reaching Zilargo, the party made official their bonds by creating their own guild (sponsored by their patron, of course), called the "Alliance for Future Endeavors", whose mission is to "congregate the different adventurers for the pursuit of a common good" (shorthand for having more DMPCs for me to playtest stuff and alternate characters played by them running around the campaign). The Bard player will finish his initiation as a Druid before turning into a Fochlucan (Druidic?) Lyrist, and will probably meet the Shugenja once again. Meanwhile, the party has already three missions: one to get a MacGuffin from an old fortification in the border between Breland and Darguun, another to seek over the maiden voyage of an ultra-fast airship (aka, Voyage of the Golden Dragon for 10th level characters), or a trip to Xen'drik. Their rewards if they succeed with flying honors? A stronghold, an airship of their own, and...I dunno, but the last thing should be awesome as well.

So: questions? Comments? Knight of the Chalice should be the next PrC to be presented, then the new Avengers and Armor Suits of Virtue, and the last appendix. I'll also miss the Warmage, but I've noticed she IS pretty powerful by the level they're playing at (something quite odd, actually).

[NineThePuma]

You're not gonna nerf the warmage just cause it's awesome, are you?

(Also: YAY, Dragon shaman!)

[Elfstone]

When you said Avengers it took me a minute to realize you weren't going to make a Thor/Norse warrior class.

Also, Dragon shaman first! No one give it any love. The soulborn has had some attention, but not alot. Save for Frank and K's Soulborn, I haven't seen anything really good for it.

[T.G. Oskar]

Alright, so it seems the Dragon Shaman will be the next class to be presented! It IS an odd class to play with (it breaks in a way with the concept of "a class should provide way for lots of archetypes"), but it should play pretty nicely. It has some basis on the Retooled Marshal, and by the end you should have some time playing as a dragon. Or pretty much that trait. So, expect the Wyrmlord soon enough.

(That said; this thread seems to be my extra-official blog for current retools. Should I get a blog where all my retools are available?)

However, the question I want to ask to you is this.

With the Paladin working pretty well (at the moment; I need some further testing from earlier levels using different builds and how do the new tweaks work around), the Zealot (aka the retooled Soulborn) looming on the horizon and the Crusader keeping its traditional feel, it's time to work on the fourth member of the Quartet of Champions: the Divine Mind!

Except, I'm at a bit of a conundrum. You see: when I decided to work on the Swashbuckler, the idea of the Daring Outlaw was so potent, I had to scratch making the class its own, and rather work with a different idea. Now, I'm not a fan of Pathfinder, but between their archetypes and the variants from Unearthed Arcana, I found a decent way to take some classes and make them a bit more useful. That doesn't mean I will suddenly reconsider the Paladin as a PrC OR as a Cleric archetype/variant (in fact, the Cleric needs a reverse retooling, probably aimed at Cloistered Cleric, BUT that won't be any time soon. Sorry guys), but it does fit well with other classes: namely, the Swashbuckler, the Scout, and the Soulknife.

Thus, since I figured that adapting the Divine Mind into a divine champion chassis would require only minimal changes, I aimed at making a variant of the Project Heretica Paladin that could use psionic powers. The variant would have a very flavorful and somewhat ironic name (the Kshatrya, as per the warrior caste of the Hindi), and would do for psionics what the Paladin did for divine magic (hence, the irony).

Then, I started with the very first thing: working with the smites. Then I realized: just by the smites alone, the concept COULD work as a variant of its own. Since I already made a prospective Soulknife class and I found that a variant could be better, I got into thinking...

...hence, the question. Would you like to see the Kshatrya as a variant/archetype for the Divine Champion (aka, the Paladin, the Blackguard, the Anarch, the Justiciar, and the chassis all four classes share), or as a class standing on its own? There would be some differences (namely on the amount of powers the Kshatrya would manifest), but the amount of changes between the Paladin and the Kshatrya would fulfill both roles quite well. If you choose to make the Kshatrya a Paladin variant/archetype, it would be presented on this thread with its own link (separate from the alternate class features, which I personally prefer a bit more than variants, but I've started to see the worth of the latter). If the Kshatrya would become its own class, it would also have its own thread, but it would have a lot of similarities with the chassis of the Divine Champion, which is also shared to an extent by the Bez-Kismet and the Zealot (which is yet unreleased).

So: class, or variant/archetype? I'll expect a few answers before I post the Knight of the Chalice PrC, or at most before I post the Avengers.

[TravelLog]

Personally, I'd like to see it as a class on its own, as the flavor and feel is different enough that it might feel forced as an archetype.

[Elfstone]

Yes. Yes you need a blog with all your classes.

Yay Dragon Shaman!

I like that archtype. It needs its own class. You could make it a varient, but I'd suggest just going for it all on its own.

[T.G. Oskar]

So I finished both the variant/archetype version and the full class version of the Kshatrya, and I feel inclined to go for the class. The end result was pretty distinctive, much unlike the Scout or the Swashbuckler if only because I needed to replace many divine-granted abilities with equal flavor psionic variants. Flavor could use a revision, though, since I'm basically pulling off what history and fantasy has done with the Paladin (making the Paladin a holy warrior instead of the palace guard), but trying to keep some of the traits of the actual Kshatrya.

As it stands, the Kshatrya as a variant/archetype is slightly stronger than the class version as it has more powers known, and it retains a great deal of the class abilities of divine champions. On the other hand, the class version of the Kshatrya draws not only from the Divine Mind, but from Dreamscarred Press' Halo Knight, and it has far more creative uses of power points and psionic focus than the actual class. I'll take some of the abilities of the class and switch them over to the variant to equate each other, but I'm still expecting for more responses, particularly with the idea of how can I make a class that allows for different builds instead of a build disguised as a class (a reason why I'm turning the Scout and the Swashbuckler into archetypes, and why the Soulknife may end up not as a class but as an archetype as well). I'll expect to have a definite response right at the moment I post the Knight of the Chalice.

Since I'd feel bad just to have a "heads-up" with no material related to the Project, here's an example of the forecoming Avenger weapons. Particularly, this is the Avenger weapon that the Paladin DMPC in my Eberron campaign is using:

DIVINE AVENGER
Price (Item Level): 57,910 gp
Body Slot: -- (held)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration [chaotic, evil, good or lawful]
Activation: -
Weight: 6 lbs.

This axe, designed for battle, has two arrowhead-shaped protrusions parallel to each other and pointing at opposite directions, with the symbol of the Silver Flame etched in each arrowhead. The tip of the axe head has a smaller version of the Flame's holy symbol. The blade of the axe shifts in color and texture with each moment, and the entire head of the axe glows with silvery flame-like wisps.

When wielded by a paladin, the divine avenger is treated as a holy metalline battleaxe of an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels (rounded up, currently +3), emitting a magic circle against evil effect.

Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law; creator must be an outsider with the chaotic, evil, good or lawful descriptor.
Cost to Create: 28,800 + 310 gp + 2304 XP

As you can see, it's not extremely powerful, but it's extremely useful. Don't worry much about the cost; it's not meant to be built, but it has an equivalent cost just in case you need to build one...IF you're an outsider with the aforementioned descriptors. The Paladin gained it by defeating his dark side (the "evil" version of him wielding a Greataxe version if this same weapon, except being a +3 unholy metalline greataxe emitting a magic circle against good effect).

The actual version of the Divine Avenger is a bit more mutable (it can be used with a great deal of weapons, and it applies to all four divine champions equally). Ideally, there should be a version for the Kshatrya and the Zealot, but that'll be unique for them. Note, though, that this ISN'T the only version of the Holy Avenger (and hence not the only Avenger weapon); the others are returns from 2nd Edition which are actually more powerful.

Oh, and it's quite a headache to determine the cost of the weapon. Pretty painful, if you ask me, so some changes are in order.

[Elfstone]

You know, I was literally checking this thread to ask you for the stats. Swordsaged I suppose. However this is faster. Thanks for the stats. I was just getting ready to use one of the evil version for a BBEG.

The Kshyahtrya won't have an ToB right? For some reason I kept thinking it would.

[T.G. Oskar]

You know, I was literally checking this thread to ask you for the stats. Swordsaged I suppose. However this is faster. Thanks for the stats. I was just getting ready to use one of the evil version for a BBEG.

The evil version should be an Unholy Metalline [weapon] with an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every 4 class levels and emitting a Magic Circle against Good effect. Now, not ALL weapons are fit to be Avenger weapons, so you should keep it best towards melee martial weapons.


The Kshyahtrya won't have an ToB right? For some reason I kept thinking it would.

Nope. A Kshatrya with maneuvers would basically be a Crusader with Hidden Talent. Much as the Paladin is meant to exist as the partial caster form of the Divine Champion, the Crusader is meant to be the martial form of the Divine Champion, the Zealot be the incarnum form of the Divine Champion, and the Kshatrya would be the psionic form of the Divine Champion. The Paladin, the Blackguard, the Anarch, the Justiciar, the Zealot and the Kshatrya all share the same chassis, whereas the Crusader has its own chassis (no need to change it, actually).

--

That said, I'll post the Wyrmlord (the retooled version of the Dragon Shaman) before this week ends (hopefully), but I got something to discuss with you guys.

One of the things I always wanted to do was to recollect all Paladin spells from all possible sources into a single list, as a sort of cheat sheet which would have indicators of which spells you shouldn't take, which to take occasionally, which to keep as a scroll or through a wand, and which spells actually should be on the spell slots (or known spells, in the case of the Project Heretica version). I did most of the work for the Core Paladin, taking from many sources, which should be helpful for when I play in a game that only allows the core Paladin. I decided the Project Heretica version should have something similar as well.

I'm nowhere near finished with the Project Heretica version, but one thing is for certain: I had to make some changes to spells. Some are definitely needed, some are nifty gifts. For example:

I originally set Dispel Magic as a 1st level Paladin spell, because they got spells at 4th level. With the changes in the level in which Paladins get 1st level spells, I figured that Dispel Magic at 3rd level was a tad TOO powerful, even if only once per day, if only because a high enough Charisma score allowed it to become two, or even three, times per round. Thus, it's now a 2nd level spell, which means you can gain access from it right from 7th level (because 2nd level spells are also acquired earlier). Greater Dispel Magic will remain as a 3rd level spell, though, because by that level you NEED it.
On the other hand, Shield Other is a spell that needed a reduction. Thus, the Paladin will get Shield Other as a 1st level spell. This is crucial, since you can start protecting allies right from 3rd level, even if only once per day, by redistributing damage. Shield Other can be combined pretty well with the Devotion aura, which is basically a large-scale version. I have my doubts over whether Glory of the Martyr should remain as a 4th level spell, given that Paladins are the ONLY people that use that magnificent spell.

There'll be a few other changes that might happen as part of the recompilation of spells from all possible sources (given that the Cleric has a LOT of spells, and the Paladin has access to them up to 4th level, with a few exceptions), which might not be present now, but I feel that the small list of spells from the 3rd post might need a bit of revision. This is important, because one of the things I'll plan for the Appendix is providing patches to the core Paladin for those of you who don't want to use ALL of Project Heretica (hopefully giving even more love to Paladin homebrewing!), and one of the things I plan to do is to revamp the spell list, so I need to get that set before I reach the Appendix (which should be pretty soon, actually).

Thus, I ask of you: which spells from the Cleric or Paladin list could merit a spell level increase or decrease? Also, which spells might be added to the Paladin to reinforce its themes? For example, one of the stuff I figured would support the Paladin immensely was to give it the Heroics spell (from Spell Compendium): after all, the Paladin is the epitome of Heroism, so it makes little sense not to have a spell like that. The bonus of having a floating feat based off your spell slots screams of cleverness. As well, I'll plan to add War Cry (from Spell Compendium as well) to the list, because a swift action morale bonus when charging just screams as something a Paladin would do (and the fear effect is rather nice as well). These are examples of spells that the Paladin could definitely use, which don't exist on their spell list nor on the Cleric spell list (one is from Bard, the other from the Sorcerer/Wizard list!); spells that evoke the Paladin feel.

Currently I'm working the list as a personal pet project, and I might not provide a link to its use because of the contents. I might make a few changes and then link it to Google Docs if you guys want to see it, but you'll have to wait until I finish. However, I could use your help on hammering the few chinks on the Paladin spell list. Adding the list of spells the Cleric has as a primary patch is formidable: for example, Shield of Faith was a definitely needed spell to reinforce AC; Air Walk deals pretty well with the lack of innate flight capabilities of the Paladin lacking a flying mount; Inhibit and Command play VERY WELL with battlefield control, to an extent, allowing the Paladin to manage the brutes while taking advantage of his defenses and potential for AoO, etc. However, there are a few spells that really don't make much sense for the Paladin to have, even if they're nice: Foundation of Stone is alright because it grants AC and bonuses against bull rush and trip; on the other hand, you get stuff like Moon Lust and Cold Fire which are odd even for the Cleric to have, and stuff like Updraft, Snowshoes or Wings of the Sea (all from Spell Compendium) working excellently for the Paladin but somewhat odd for them to cast. Creating an extensive spell list would be a nightmare, hence the idea of using the Cleric spell list as a base, and then directly patching that (it is infinitely easier to pull off, and it takes advantage of many more books), but now's the time for some refinements.

And of course, that's where you come in.

[Dust]

My group's starting up a 3.5 game where I'll be playing Oskar's paladin. I'm quite excited to say the least, and I'll let you know how it goes.

(Fifty bucks says I'll be wishing I had wings by the end of the second game session. :smallwink:)

[Elfstone]

Thats a daunting task... So you want our help with what exactly? Choosing spells that work? How would we know what you had already seen or chosen? Perhaps I read wrong, but im slightly confused as to what you need help with, you say the list would be private but you need help refining it? I understand the concept(its an impressive one) just not the execution.

[T.G. Oskar]

My group's starting up a 3.5 game where I'll be playing Oskar's paladin. I'm quite excited to say the least, and I'll let you know how it goes.

(Fifty bucks says I'll be wishing I had wings by the end of the second game session. :smallwink:)

Remember that Paladins get access to Air Walk at the same time Clerics do, and they can also get a flying mount (and Phantom Steed later on if they don't want the mount), so you might not need the wings. Perhaps some extra speed, though.


Thats a daunting task... So you want our help with what exactly? Choosing spells that work? How would we know what you had already seen or chosen? Perhaps I read wrong, but im slightly confused as to what you need help with, you say the list would be private but you need help refining it? I understand the concept(its an impressive one) just not the execution.

I guess I was a bit vague, ironically. What I need is some brainstorming in order to refine the Paladin spell list a bit. You don't need to make an exhaustive description of why X spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list should be on the Paladin spell list, but if, after a once-over read, you figure "hey, this could be a Paladin spell list", then you could suggest that. Or, watching a spell on the Cleric spell list, you figure "hey, the Paladin could cast this at a lower level!", you can suggest that. It doesn't have, once again, to be well thought: all I need is some suggestions, which I could consider.

Another thing you can help on brainstorming is what kinds of spells you think don't fit the Paladin. For example, since I see the Paladin as a divine warrior and not an ordained priest, I figure Consecrate should be off-limits to them (because that's the thing you expect a priest to do, not a Paladin). Stuff like Stone Shape or Repel Vermin are akin to miracles, which you'd expect from people with a stronger divine connection, not from the strong arm of the faith. Just suggestions of "this looks fine, this doesn't" are enough; I don't expect you to figure out what I've done already.

[T.G. Oskar]

So: trying to keep up with stuff that I might have left a bit abandoned...let's spice things up with Knight of the Chalice, shall we?

The Knight of the Chalice, much like the Hunter of the Dead, is a PrC following a very specific archetype. Whereas the Hunter of the Dead goes for...well, the undead, the Knight of the Chalice is a demon hunter first and foremost. However, one of the things I love about the Knight of the Chalice is the fluff behind it, particularly the twist about what is the Chalice, as presented in the Player's Handbook II.

However, unlike the Hunter of the Dead, the Knight of the Chalice was mechanically useful. Although limited in terms of spellcasting, one of the key points the class had is Fiendslaying, which if you fought evil outsiders is definitely a brutal mechanic. Adding 4d6 points of damage per hit is quite nice, particularly if you have a way to pounce on your enemies. Censure Demons is pretty weak, I must admit, but it's not so bad against fodder fiends (imps, lemures, quasits, nupperibo and others). Speaking about the spellcasting: the class has some definite gems, holding a spell list with spells that could really power up the Paladin (stuff like Sound Burst at 2nd level and Searing Light at 3rd might not be that brutal, but SM I/II/III at 1st/2nd/3rd level, Magic Vestment at 3rd, Holy Smite and Lesser Planar Ally at 4th do make for interesting additions). The capstone wasn't so bad either, granting a 1/day limited use of an 8th level cleric spell (Holy Aura).

However, this is an example of a PrC that, while good, becomes weak when you compare it to the might of Project Heretica (or the nice things that the retoolings add, if you still consider the Paladin needs a bit more muscle). To do so, I went with the revisions of Hunter of the Dead, blended them with the chassis of the original PrC (as I usually do), and here's the result.

Thus, without further ado, I introduce to you the new and improved...

KNIGHT OF THE CHALICE
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff312/Osky-kun/mtg_11-1.jpg
Knight of the Reliquary, by Michael Komarck. Art for the Magic: the Gathering TCG, Conflux expansion. Copyright 2008 Wizards of the Coast

"Farewell, all. I will not return here, but in two conditions. I shall return victorious, or I shall return in mortuary shrouds, but I shall not return in shame..." - Words of the departing Knights of the Chalice as they seek to fulfill their final missions in the Lower Planes.

Requirements
To qualify to become a knight of the chalice, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any good
Base Attack Bonus: +8
Skills: Knowledge (the planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks
Special: Must have an aura of good of a 5th level cleric
Special: Has evil outsiders as a favored enemy, or has slain an evil outsider of Challenge Rating 8 or higher.

As you can see, the prerequisites make only the most pure of heart enter the class. However, technically you're not limited to clerics or paladins, since if you have at least one Exalted feat, you get the aura of good as if you were a cleric of your character level.

However, the prerequisites are intentionally harsh. A pure Cleric could enter only if it had one or two levels in Fighter, whereas a Paladin could enter right after 9th level. Rangers have it harder, but Education comes to the rescue. Other classes will have it pretty difficult, given the need for two rare skills and the unusual prerequisites.

These, of course, are essentially the original prerequisites of the PrC, but with one difference: no need to cast spells. The reason is pretty obvious: the class grants spellcasting of its own, and if you're gonna drop some of your spells for KotC spells, then you might as well drop the requirement in any case. However, to influence the three main classes that could enter (Clerics, Rangers and Paladins), the two other requisites are enabled.

Class Skills
The knight of the chalice class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) and Spot (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

The class skill list is intentionally small, but it adds Listen and Spot so you can have a very solid set of perception skills (or reinforce those you already have). Knowledge (religion) is also added, because it makes little sense to require it as a prerequisite but not have it as part of your skill list.

Hit Dice: d10
{TABLE=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells per Day
1st|+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Fiendslaying +1/+1d6, protection from evil|-
2nd|+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Censure fiends, smite evil outsider|+1 of existing divine spellcasting class/see text
3rd|+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Courage of the heavens (fear)|+1 of existing divine spellcasting class/see text
4th|+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Consecrated casting +2, fiendslaying +2/+2d6|+1 of existing divine spellcasting class/see text
5th|+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Magic circle against evil|-
6th|+6|
+5|
+2|
+5|Courage of the heavens (enchantments), improved smite evil outsider|+1 of existing divine spellcasting class/see text
7th|+7|
+5|
+2|
+5|Fiendslaying +3/+3d6|+1 of existing divine spellcasting class/see text
8th|+8|
+6|
+2|
+6|Consecrated casting +4|+1 of existing divine spellcasting class/see text
9th|+9|
+6|
+3|
+6|Courage of the heavens (radius)|+1 of existing divine spellcasting class/see text
10th|+10|
+7|
+3|
+7|Fiendslaying +4/+4d6, holy aura, wrack evil outsider|-[/TABLE]

A pretty solid chassis, 7/10ths spellcasting so as to limit spellcasting a bit, but the exchanges you give (basically a permanent protective aura) are more than worth it.

D10 means paladins lose on a bit of their meaty hit points, but Clerics and Rangers get a solid boost in that area.

Class Features
The following are class features of the knight of the chalice
Fiendslaying (Ex): The training endured by knights of the Chalice to face evil outsiders manifests in this peculiar ability. Starting from 1st level, a knight of the Chalice gains a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls against evil outsiders, and deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on a successful hit. Furthermore, she also has a +1 competence bonus on all Bluff, Intimidate, Listen, Knowledge (the planes), Sense Motive, Spot and Survival skill checks, a +1 competence bonus on all saving throws against attacks by evil outsiders, and a +1 competence bonus on all opposed ability checks made against evil outsiders. Every three levels after the first (4th, 7th, 10th), the competence bonus on attack rolls, specified skill checks, saving throws and opposed ability checks increases by 1, and the damage increases by 1d6.

Take note: the ability has received a superb improvement from the original. While the bonus to attack and damage rolls remains the same, the knight gains more skills to apply the bonus at, and adds the bonus to ALL of his saving throws (not just Will), making the class the ultimate fiend hunter. The main difference is that the ability was spread out a bit, to follow a nifty mathematical pattern: every three levels after the first one, which makes the last part of Fiendslaying accessible at the final level.

Protection against Evil (Su): A knight of the Chalice is permanently protected by an aura that duplicates the protection from evil spell, as cast by a cleric of the knight’s class level (plus the level of the knight of the Chalice’s aura of good, up to the knight’s character level). The bonuses granted by the ability deal only with evil outsiders, however.

This, however, is pretty new. Right from 1st level, the knight of the Chalice is immune to possessions, summoned creatures, and gains a decent bonus to AC and saves, which technically can't be dispelled. If it somehow can be dispelled, the CL is pretty decent (those who enter via Exalted feats use their character level as their CL). It works only on evil outsiders, but you ARE specializing in those enemies, no?

Spells per Day: Beginning at 2nd level, every level (except 5th and 10th level) a knight of the Chalice gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If the knight of the Chalice had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming one, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day. If the knight of the Chalice has levels in paladin or ranger, the caster level for those spells is equal to his knight of the Chalice class levels plus half his paladin or ranger levels (including 1st, 5th and 10th level, unlike other divine spellcasters).
If the knight of the Chalice has no levels in a divine spellcasting class, he is treated as having the spellcasting ability of a 4th level paladin. The caster level for spells casted by the hunter of the dead by means of the class is equal to his class level.

As with the hunter of the dead, if you're using the Project Heretica paladin, their CL progresses based on their class level so their progression is the same as any cleric. This also applies to users of the Retooled Ranger, as well as any Paladin/Ranger revision that grants full CL (which means those who use the Pathfinder Paladin add all their KotC levels). This is just a small addendum.

Unlike the Hunter of the Dead, which has a small list of spells you could add, the Knight of the Chalice works well with the vanilla Paladin list...which, of course, should be based on the Project Heretica list. If you're using the core Paladin or the Pathfinder Paladin, make sure you consider raiding the original KotC spell list and add those spells that are missing. Actually, raid the list for the Rangers that decide to enter as well.

Otherwise, this is mostly the same trick I used with the Hunter of the Dead; since both classes are strongly themed for Paladins (and Rangers, actually), their spell list could be served better by granting them an existing progression, much like what the Lyric Thaumaturge did with the Bard or the Stalker of Kharash did with the Ranger. You'll be capable of casting 4th level spells at the final level, with a few limitations, but the class skills will definitely carry you up.

Censure Fiends (Su): A potent weapon given to knights of the Chalice is the ability to censure evil outsiders in the same way a cleric or paladin can turn undead creatures. The knight of the Chalice does not manipulate positive energy for this purpose, but rather the very essence of the planes of Good; however, the ability to censure fiends manifests in a very similar way, to the extent that warriors of good who channel such powers become adept at channeling divine essence to censure fiends in almost equal regard to the ability to turn undead (or a similar ability).
Whenever a knight of the Chalice uses this ability, treat as if using turn undead, but except as follows: a knight of the Chalice does not need to roll turning damage to affect evil outsiders, instead forcing all affected evil outsiders to succeed on a Will saving throw (DC equal to 10 + the knight of the Chalice class level + the knight of the Chalice Charisma modifier) or be stunned for a number of rounds equal to half the knight’s class level. If the evil outsider has fewer Hit Dice than twice the knight of the Chalice’s effective cleric level, the creature is banished (instead of stunned) on a failed Will save, and stunned on a success. A knight of the Chalice may use this ability a number of rounds equal to 3 + the knight’s Charisma modifier. Censure fiends is treated as if it were turn undead for purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes that require this ability.
If a knight of the Chalice has levels in a class that grants turn undead, censure outsiders or a similar ability, levels in that class stack for purposes of determining the knight’s effective cleric level for this ability. A knight of the Chalice that has levels in a class that grants turn undead, censure outsiders or a similar ability does not gain uses of censure fiends, but it gains three extra daily uses of its turn undead ability, and may expend a daily use of its turn undead ability to censure fiends instead.

The original PrC's Censure Fiends ability was pretty poor, even if most evil outsiders had low HD for their CR. Limited to a +10 bonus to their "turning" checks, and being somewhat different from Turn Undead while existing in the same book that brought over Divine feats, this ability had to be improved vastly. Now, it's basically a different application of energy channeling, which affects fiends instead of undead (or as well as undead, if you have turn undead). As well, since it mentions it is considered as turn undead, you can use Divine feats with it (and qualify for them), which makes this resource even more useful when you're not facing evil outsiders. Paladins still get a weaker level than Clerics would, but they're best suited with their own brand of damage.

Smite Evil Outsider (Su): Once per encounter as part of an attack action, a knight of the Chalice may attempt to smite an evil outsider with one normal melee attack. The knight of the Chalice adds his Charisma modifier to the attack roll; if successful, the knight of the Chalice deals extra damage and causes a special effect. Unlike other forms of smite, the enhancements to smite evil outsider are fixed and they may not be changed. If the knight of the Chalice makes a smite as part of a full attack, he may only use it once per round. At 6th level and again at 10th level, a knight of the Chalice gains an extra use of smite evil outsider per encounter.
Unless stated otherwise, a knight of the Chalice deals an amount of extra damage equal to his class level, plus levels in another class that grants a smiting ability (such as the paladin’s smite evil ability). As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + the knight of the Chalice’s class level + the knight of the Chalice’s Charisma modifier. Furthermore, when smiting an evil outsider, the attack is treated as if the weapon was good-aligned. If the knight of the Chalice accidentally smites any other creature besides evil outsiders, smite evil outsider has no effect but the ability is not used for the day.
If the knight of the Chalice has levels in paladin and chose stunning for his smite evil’s special effect (or justiciar and chose the incapacitating verdict), levels in knight of the Chalice stack with levels in paladin (or justiciar) in order to determine the damage of the smite. Uses of smite evil outsider stack with uses of other smite abilities (such as smite evil, verdict or entropic strike) to determine encounter uses (thus, a 8th level paladin/2nd level knight of the Chalice has three daily uses of either smite evil or smite evil outsider per encounter).

Of course, if you're a Paladin, you're more eager to use your smite than your Turn Undead, so they also get an improvement. This improvement is different from that of the Hunter of the Dead, which is gained right from 1st level, because you have to factor the extra damage from Fiendslaying. You'll notice that Smite Evil Outsider has its own tier of rider-effect progressions, much like the Project Heretica Paladin, which replace those you'd get from staying in the Paladin class.

As you can see, what I did with Smite in order to make the original class relevant was to make the rider effects exclusive to class progression, but with the ability to get new and unique progressions if you entered different classes. In the case of Hunter of the Dead, they got undead-specific smites, while Knights of the Chalice gain fiend-specific smites and Gray Guards unlock their smite potential to differing alignments. Pious Templar, of course, has its domain-based smites. This makes the Smite ability far more dynamic than the original version, one which I least expect other people to draw inspiration upon, as I find it the best way to make the ability respectable without having to resort to maneuvers.

Courage of the Heavens (Su): A 3rd level knight of the Chalice is immune to any and all fear effects cast or created by evil outsiders. If the knight of the Chalice is already immune to fear, this ability has no effect; however, if the knight of the Chalice grants a bonus to saves vs. fear effects by means of an aura (such as the paladin’s divine aura of courage, the aura of courage granted by the Courage domain, or the marshal’s auras), the bonus granted increases by 4 when facing evil outsiders.
At 6th level, the knight of the Chalice is immune to any and all enchantment spells and effects cast by evil outsiders, including charms, compulsions and other non-illusory mind-affecting effects. If the knight of the Chalice is already immune to enchantments or mind-affecting effects, this ability has no effect; however, if the knight of the Chalice grants a bonus to saves vs. enchantments or mind-affecting spells or effects, the bonus granted increases by 4 when facing evil outsiders.
At 9th level, these immunities extend to all allies within 30 ft. of the knight of the Chalice. Allies must be capable of seeing and hearing the knight of the Chalice to gain the benefit of this ability.

This ability is delayed one level, but the effects are improved. So as to provide allies with a degree of resolve against fear and enchantments of fiends, existing auras are greatly improved.

The original Knight of the Chalice provided his allies with immunities at 8th level, but the range was a tad too small (20 ft.) With the delay, it was justifiable to extend the range of that "aura" to 30 ft., which while still pretty small, it allows for better positioning.

Consecrated Casting (Ex): At 4th level, a knight of the Chalice pours his grim conviction in the battle against evil outsiders that spells cast by them are more difficult to resist by fiends. When casting any spell (including spell-like abilities), the knight of the Chalice gains a +2 on the caster level check to bypass the spell resistance of evil outsiders and the spell’s saving throw DC increases by 2 against the same enemies. At 8th level, these bonuses increase by 2, for a total of 4.

As you can see, this is yet another ability taken from the PrC and improved as needed. You may be noticing right now that I didn't have to take a lot of effort retooling this PrC, as the class itself is VERY good on a fiendslaying campaign, with all of the abilities being extremely useful. The main benefit is that, with an empty 8th level, the chance presented to double the bonus of this ability. This means even a noble paladin can wrack havoc with its spellcasting: stuff like Holy Smite gets a +4 to the save DC, which means the enemy WILL get blinded pretty easily, or Dispel Evil will definitely banish the evil outsider.

Magic Circle against Evil (Su): At 5th level, the radius of the protective aura of the knight of the Chalice increases in size. The knight of the Chalice is treated as if under the permanent effect of a magic circle against evil spell cast by a cleric of the knight’s class level (plus the level of the knight of the Chalice’s aura of good, up to the knight’s character level). The bonuses granted by the ability deal only with evil outsiders, however.

While the Knight of the Chalice is a formidable opponent on his own, it's pretty obvious that allies are a potent resource to have in the fight against evil. Thus, their protective aura improves, and now nearby allies have nothing to fear from summoned monsters or possession as long as they're near the knight. This is particularly powerful against Fiends of Possession, which can be a deadly temptation.

Improved Smite Evil Outsider (Su): At 6th level, a knight of the Chalice delivers greater divine power through his smites when facing evil outsiders. The smite deals double damage against evil outsiders, and if the evil outsider fails a Fortitude saving throw against the smite attack, it becomes stunned for 1d4 rounds. The saving throw DC for the stunning attempt includes the competence bonus granted by the fiendslaying class ability.

Notice why I made the stacking effect of Smite Evil/Evil Outsider apply only to the Smite (or Verdict) related to stunning? The stunning ability of the knight of the Chalice is slightly more powerful, as being stunned for up to 4 rounds can be easily devastating. Note, of course, that the stunning effect is a variable effect, so you can qualify for Empower Supernatural Ability and make the deadliest fiend you find during the day a meek if the fool fails its save. The bonus of Fiendslaying certainly will help on this one.

Holy Aura (Su): At 10th level, the knight of the Chalice becomes purified by the forces of good, improving his defensive abilities against these creatures. The knight of the Chalice is treated as if under the effect of a holy aura spell cast by a cleric of the knight’s class level (plus the level of the knight of the Chalice’s aura of good, up to the knight’s character level), with the following exceptions: only the knight of the Chalice gains the benefit of holy aura, the benefits affect only evil outsiders (the +4 deflection bonus to AC and the +4 resistance bonus to saves protects only against evil outsiders, and only evil outsiders may be blinded by this ability). The spell resistance against the spells of evil outsiders is equal to 10 + the knight of the Chalice’s character level, and the saving throw against the blinding effect is equal to 10 + the knight of the Chalice’s class level + the knight of the Chalice’s Charisma modifier.

Sure, having Holy Aura 1/day was pretty amazing for a capstone...when compared to the capstones of other PrCs when Complete Warrior was released. After seeing the PrCs in other places, this kind of capstone started to seem bad.

However, from 1/day to "always active" is a HUGE jump. Note, of course, that the ability has enough limitations to make it justifiable. For starters, it only applies against evil outsiders, which is just one (reasonably large) part of the chain of evil creatures. Second, it only affects you, so you're not granting all allies loads of bonuses just by standing around you (they still get the bonuses from Magic Circle against Evil, tho). Third, if you're a cleric or divine spellcaster that has reached 8th level, chances are you HAVE Holy Aura and are willing to use it. Thus, it's no biggie to extend the duration to "as long as you really please".

Wrack Evil Outsider (Su): At 10th level, the ability of the knight of the Chalice to smite evil outsiders disrupts the evil essence that comprises them, potentially annihilating them instantly. If the evil outsider fails its Fortitude saving throw against the smite, it is immediately destroyed; the knight of the Chalice adds the competence bonus of his fiendslaying ability to the saving throw DC. If the save fails, the creature is instead stunned for 1d4 rounds.

However, when coupled with a second capstone like this one...no wonder I had to ditch the last spellcasting ability.

Wrack Evil Outsider is essentially the third tier of the Smite Evil Outsider ability, and there's no more fitting capstone than the ability to potentially annihilate your worst enemies. This isn't "go to Nine Hells/Abyss and reform", this is "bye bye sucker!" levels of destruction. Every time you succeed on wracking an evil outsider, the creature is irredemably dead, which makes you the ultimate warrior against the forces of evil in the Lower Planes. A well-prepared group of Knights of the Chalice will, in no short time, end the Blood War so as long as they survive.

And if you somehow fail that buffed save? Well, having the enemy be stunned for 1d4 rounds will make sure the fiend will regret meeting you again. Now, don't tell me this is too powerful for an 18th level character; this is just dandy for them, particularly for Paladins which can use this ability more times per encounter than they can handle.

ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Knights of Dispater
The Chalice holds a great secret; their stalwart opposition against evil outsiders is a secret mission to rescue the Chalice, the name given to the daughter of the Archpaladin, Heironeous. Well aware of what might happen, a similar order has appeared, serving a very nefarious purpose; to slay all good outsiders, but specifically to halt the advance of the knights of the Chalice. Supported by the fiendish forces of the archdevil Dispater and the fell church of Hextor, the knights of Dispater are a blight upon the Upper Planes
Level: 1st
Replaces: None (exchanges all abilities)
Prerequisite: Lawful evil, must have an aura of evil as a 5th level cleric (or the Disciple of Darkness feat), must have good outsiders as a favored enemy or must have slain a good outsider with a Challenge Rating of 8 or higher.
Benefit: Abilities that affect evil outsiders now affect good outsiders instead, and abilities that protect against the attacks of evil outsiders now protect against good outsiders instead.. Thus, “angelslaying” grants a competence bonus against good outsiders, “censure celestials” affects good outsiders, the knight gains protection from good and similar abilities, and so forth. Courage of the Nine Hells protects against the fear and mind-affecting spells and effects of good outsiders, as well.

Remember I mentioned I loved the fluff given in the PHB II about the Chalice organization? A demigoddess being trapped in the city of Dis, guarded by the ruler of the Second Hell, Dispater, and held there by none other than Heironeous' half-brother Hextor... This SCREAMS for epic adventuring.

However, it's very clear that the Knight of the Chalice was built as a generic "fiend-hunter" PrC, albeit a very good one. Thus, it's no biggie to change the priorities of some abilities and create the equally deadly Knights of Dispater, which are devoted to stop any good outsider from rescuing the demigoddess (or else, there would be no need for mortal knights to risk their mortal lives against a brutal enemy such as the Lord of the Second, no?)

While good outsiders are rare, the existence of this ACF is more than enough to justify why it's so dangerous for good outsiders to fall in; a mortal that can easily slay them even in their own turf (erasing them from existence if necessary) is a powerful tool for these celestials to recruit mortal men. The climactic battles between knights of the Chalice and knights of Dispater should make for a spicy fiendslaying campaign, particularly if one of them is a traitor to the order (or if a former Knight of Dispater has been "touched" by the goddess and decides to turn a new leaf).

What, you thought I was just a min-max junkie? Of course not; I love fluff. I just...can't have it (nor crunch) for a good while, at least during the time I wrote this...

So, as usual: questions? Comments? Epic fiendslayers, or just short of imp-beaters? I plan to work one more Paladin-related PrC, but I'll probably do it out of order. Next stop: Avengers and Armor Suits of Virtue!

[NineThePuma]

In the spellcasting section, your copy pasta is undercooked. You refer to the Hunter of the Dead.


If the knight of the Chalice has no levels in a divine spellcasting class, he is treated as having the spellcasting ability of a 4th level paladin. The caster level for spells casted by the hunter of the dead by means of the class is equal to his class level.

I'll add more little things as I come across them.

EDIT: also, the Aura of Good special requirement is really really weird. It practically DEMANDS a dip into Cleric or Paladin, and the class offers basically nothing to Rangers. The original didn't offer anything to Rangers either, and didn't require the class.

[Cieyrin]

EDIT: also, the Aura of Good special requirement is really really weird. It practically DEMANDS a dip into Cleric or Paladin, and the class offers basically nothing to Rangers. The original didn't offer anything to Rangers either, and didn't require the class.

...or you take an Exalted feat, like Nemesis, which fits perfectly for a Ranger/Knight of the Chalice. Oskar pointed out Exalted feats in his notes section for the prereqs.

Also, Oskar, your table code lost a | between BAB and Fort, which screwed up your distribution of abilities.

[NineThePuma]

...or you take an Exalted feat, like Nemesis, which fits perfectly for a Ranger/Knight of the Chalice. Oskar pointed out Exalted feats in his notes section for the prereqs.

... *head desk* Not everyone USES book of exalted deeds, for one. I know a lot of DMs who are open to home brew that refuse to use it.

For two, not everyone is necessarily familiar with every single type of feat and what their effects are. ^^;;;

[Cieyrin]

... *head desk* Not everyone USES book of exalted deeds, for one. I know a lot of DMs who are open to home brew that refuse to use it.

For two, not everyone is necessarily familiar with every single type of feat and what their effects are. ^^;;;

I'm just saying its an alternative that works and Oskar explicitly mentions it in the notes about it, so I don't think it's that big a deal.

Also, kudos, Oskar, for a class that finally advances Censure Spirits, Spirit Shamans don't get enough love.

[Cieyrin]

What does this line of Smite Evil Outsider mean? "Unlike similar evil outsiders are fixed and they may not be changed."

[T.G. Oskar]

What does this line of Smite Evil Outsider mean? "Unlike similar evil outsiders are fixed and they may not be changed."

What I meant was that, unlike the Paladin's (and Blackguard's) smiting method, you can't change your choices; they are fixed in that regard. Thus, while a Paladin can choose to make a stunning, resounding, or blinding smite, the knight of the Chalice is limited to smite evil outsiders only (with the enhancements as given).

It should be fixed now.

Speaking of which: I'll attempt to make a swift DL and UL to Google Docs in order to see if I can copy the info from the Avenger and Armor Suits document. My computer is almost about to kick the bucket and it's barely functioning, but it doesn't allow me to check on Word, which really sucks. Google Docs, on the other hand, works like a charm, so I might post that in the following days.

[T.G. Oskar]

THE AVENGERS
Quite definitely not named for a group of powerful heroes of differing traits, the following weapons are unique and exclusive to Paladins (whether the original version or those from Project Heretica), and some are made exclusively for Blackguards (both original version and Project Heretica version), Justiciars or Anarchs. All weapons share the following traits:

The weapon can be of any type, although the following are the traditional forms of the weapons: longsword, battleaxe, warhammer, bastard sword, greatsword, greataxe, maul, longspear, lance, ranseur, guisarme, glaive, heavy flail, heavy mace, dwarven waraxe, dwarven urgrosh, halberd. Other weapons that qualify are the executioner's mace, warmace, lucerne hammer, mercurial longsword, gyrspike, dwarven warpike, duom, goliath greathammer, longaxe, heavy poleaxe and ramhammer. In rare occasions, a paladin may receive a ranged avenger weapon, typically a longbow, composite longbow, light crossbow, heavy crossbow or great crossbow. All weapons are described as if using a longsword; replace it for the desired weapon (including the material composition, if desired) when granting the weapon to a player.
The weapon has a magical enhancement bonus of +1 regardless of the user. Only a paladin (or a blackguard, a justiciar or an anarch) may unleash the full power of the weapon, generally improving it to its maximum capability. A character may attempt to emulate the paladin status, but to do so it must succeed on a DC 25 Use Magic Device check, and the effective Divine Champion level for the character is equal to its Use Magic Device check minus 25.
Although indicated on the weapon description, the weapon's enhancement bonus increases based on the class level of the user. As a general rule, the weapon gains an enhancement bonus as if a greater magic weapon spell had been cast by a cleric of the character's class level (thus, an 8th level paladin wielding a divine avenger treats the weapon as a +2 weapon, while a 13th level paladin treats it as a +3 weapon). Unlike the greater magic weapon spell, the enhancement bonus of the weapon keeps increasing after 20th level (thus, a 24th level paladin treats the weapon as a +6 weapon and hence an epic weapon).
If a weapon is meant for a character of a specific alignment, the weapon grants a negative level to its wielder. An avenger weapon meant for all divine champions has no such penalty.
Although the weapon is given a price, item level and construction method, an avenger is never built; instead, it is always given as a gift for a deserving divine champion by a powerful representative of its alignment (for example, a paladin could receive a divine avenger through a sword archon or a planetar). In rare occasions, the weapon may be found as part of a treasure, likely an avenger used by a slain champion; in that case, the weapon does not grant the divine champion its abilities until it proves its worth. In vastly rarer occasions, the weapon may be already part of the divine champion, but it does not show its power until a critical moment. In the latter two cases, it is better to use the rules for an item of legacy (see the Weapons of Legacy supplement for more details).
Although not mentioned, each weapon has a degree of intellect, but are not intelligent weapons. In rare occasions (1% if rolling randomly) the weapon has full intellect (likely a found avenger that houses the soul of a powerful slain divine champion whom decided to remain upon the weapon to prevent his fate from befalling others). The limited sapience of the avenger weapon allows it to restrain its abilities if a divine champion has not been found worthy of using it, and when the champion has regained worthiness. An avenger with full intellect usually has a restricted alignment and the usual purpose of advancing the cause of his alignment (unless the wielder had a specific goal in mind).
All avengers, unless otherwise indicated, emit a magic circle of the same alignment as the wielder, as if cast by a cleric of a caster level equal to the character's level (not class level).

As mentioned almost a week ago, this is the reinterpretation of the Holy Avenger weapon of the Paladin, plus a few gems from older editions (kudos if you can identify where I drew those weapons from; rest assured, I will give them in time).

As you can see, the concept of the "avenger" weapon is to grant the Paladin player a weapon pretty much tailor-made to their needs. While the original Holy Avenger is pretty cool (cold iron, +5 Holy, MCaE plus a targeted Greater Dispel Magic at will effect), I find it hauntingly limited. I mean, it's only a longsword, so it's a bit frustrating if you have a character that, say, wields an axe (because it's a dwarf) or a spear (because it wants to make a tripper build). Thus, the "Avenger" is not a sword per se, but a weapon built to meet the traditional "knightly" weapons. The sole exception is the rare (and I MEAN it, rare!) ranged Avengers in case you're using an Elf, because not all Paladins will focus on melee weapons.

Another concept I wanted to introduce was how the weapon grew with the user. One of the core troubles with many weapons is that they don't remain for long in the hands of the characters, because you'll eventually find a better weapon. Sure, Sharprazor may be a weapon forged in the times of the Hundred-Year War, the personal weapon of the fabled commander Hendrik the Haverdasher, and that slew the fearsome orc warlord Ghraz'hak the Bloodthirster, but all the thing a player will see is "it's a +2 sword", so the history is lost whenever a +3 sword is found, even if it was forged ten days ago by the party wizard and has no history whatsoever.

Now, that means each and every one of the weapons could easily be a weapon of legacy, and by all means, I support heartily that idea, but if you don't have that supplement or feel that the losses won't overcome the strengths, then you should have a choice. Dropping that marvelous silver longsword gifted by an avatar of the divine champion's deity because a +6 Holy Power Longsword of Evil Outsider Dread was found in the next treasure chest leaves a lot to be desired, particularly since one weapon was produced randomly and the other was effectively a gift from your frickin' god, darn it!!

However, you will also notice that the weapons cater to the over degrees of power. They are no joke; they ARE powerful. Most of these weapons would effectively be a +6~+9 weapon with no less and no more than a +5 enhancement bonus, and each of the abilities are catering to a specific purpose. The divine avenger is the simplest of them all, but it's by all means an all-purpose evil-smiting weapon (metalline plus holy means you effectively bypass all damage reduction). Other weapons are the bane of all undead, or formidable against spellcasters: this is intentional.

Also important to know is that the requirements to make one are very strict. For all means, a DM is welcome to expressively forbid the forging of such weapons unless the story itself requires it. The guidelines above are meant for the DM to have control of these weapons, because just the simplest iteration of them in the hands of a Paladin becomes a potent tool to break the game of any DM (save a sadistic one, whom won't allow them in the game in any case). This should be the weapon that EVERY Paladin should strive for, one that exists as the reward for the most epic quest you could ever imagine, the weapon that will write that Paladin's name in legend. Of course, it can also be the foul weapon that begins the reign of darkness of any epic Blackguard, or the weapon that founds the legacy of a legendary Justiciar. By all means, it's not mere loot for a weapon: it is a plot device, and as a plot device, the DM is the final arbiter of this decision.

Oh, and you'll see they're "cheap", so to speak. You wouldn't believe how I ended up with those costs...

As a final note, the format I use is that of the Magic Item Compendium, mostly because I like the format and because it's oddly easy to read and interpret. Much easier to the eyes than the original, or the DMGII formats.

DIVINE AVENGER
Price (Item Level): 57,600 + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (weapon)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration [chaotic, evil, good or lawful]
Activation: -
Weight: as weapon
This sword is beautifully decorated with a cross-guard pommel holding a thick cross and four rubies set in a square formation. The blade is blessed and shines upon wielding. When wielded by other hands, the weapon shifts into a black blade with fell spiritual flames, an iron-like blade with a ruby red light, or a blade with a shimmering rainbow aura.

When wielded by a paladin, a blackguard, a justiciar or an anarch, a divine avenger is treated as a metalline longsword of an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels, having the axiomatic (if a justiciar), anarchic (if an anarch), holy (if a paladin) or unholy (if a blackguard) weapon property and emitting a magic circle effect of the same alignment as the weapon property (thus, an 8th level paladin wielding a divine avenger treats the weapon as a +2 holy metalline longsword).
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law; creator must be an outsider with the chaotic, evil, good or lawful descriptor.
Cost to Create: 28,800 + weapon cost + 2304 XP

As you'll notice, the divine avenger is your generic holy (or unholy) weapon, suitable for many purposes. While the mention of the Magic Circle effect is redundant, this weapon will see a lot of use given that it functions against a great deal of enemies.

You'll also notice that it's nerfed compared to the true Holy Avenger, because it loses the Greater Dispel Magic effect. This is because such an item is best left with the spellcaster-bane specific weapon, which you'll see below.

DIVINE PURIFIER
Price (Item Level): 127,500 + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (weapon)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); evocation and transmutation
Activation: --
Weight: as weapon
The sword has a pommel with a simple disk design, which changes into that of the wielder's deity's holy symbol. The sword's blade flickers in and out of existence, as if existing on two places at the same time, and glows brightly with white light.

A divine purifier can only be wielded by a paladin. When a character of that class wields it, a divine purifier is treated as a sacred ghost touch longsword of undead bane of an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels, and emits a magic circle against evil effect, except it applies only to undead. A paladin wielding this weapon may use it as its holy symbol for purposes of turn undead and divine focus, and may turn undead (if it has the feature) as a cleric of his class level (instead of his class level -3). If the wielder were to deal a critical hit by means of a natural 20 on the attack roll (and confirms said roll) against an undead creature, the target must succeed on a Will saving throw (equal to 10 + the paladin's effective level for turning undead + the paladin's Charisma modifier) or be destroyed instantly; else, it takes critical damage (even if it otherwise wouldn't; this is an exception to the rule, and such effect does not allow the paladin to deal precision damage, such as sneak attack damage).
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, ability to turn undead, disrupting weapon, hallow; creator must be a cleric of a deity with the Sun or Glory domain, or a good outsider following such deity.
Cost to Create: 63,750 + weapon cost + 5100 xp

The Divine Purifier is the undead-bane specific weapon, and it shows. Sacred is basically like Holy, except it works only against undead and evil creatures (and you don't get Holy Burst, sadly), Ghost Touch for those pesky incorporeal undead, and Undead Bane just to hammer that down. Because Paladins are bad at turning undead, the weapon grants a mild bonus when using this ability, which may stack with other such traits in order to make you a superior undead hunter.

The key ability, of course, is the ability to destroy any undead on a critical hit, based on a brutally high saving throw (this is intentional, in case an undead hunter takes levels in a class that doesn't advance turning), targetting a saving throw that undead typically are strong at (typically; regular zombies and skeletons lack said willpower). This is roughly the same effect as a vorpal weapon, except more limited but potentially devastating nonetheless (since it also allows critical hits, but not sneak attack damage). Any DM is welcome to arbitrarily turn off this property if it feels a BBEG is threatened because of it, or you may consider this a positive energy effect and thus blocked by spells and effects that protect from positive energy.

DIVINE PROTECTOR
Price (Item Level): 64,260 + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (weapon)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration, divination and evocation
Activation: -- and full round (command)
Weight: as weapon
The sword is furnished with powerful protective runes on its hilt and blade. The blade is slightly hollowed, and when swung, a slight noise as that of a blaring siren echoes.

When wielded by a paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar, a divine protector is treated as a defending stunning longsword of warning of an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels, and emits a magic circle effect based on the wielder's class (thus, a paladin emits a magic circle against evil effect). The weapon constantly scours the area with the effect of a detect evil spell, except on a 60 ft. radius; the wielder can hear a soft hum whenever a creature is nearby, and by pointing the weapon at a creature it may determine if it's of the opposite alignment (for example, a paladin may determine if the creature pointed is evil or not).

If a creature attempts to ambush the wielder (or his allies, if within the magic circle radius), or surprise the party while asleep, the weapon emits a loud alarm that only the paladin can listen; as a free action, he may choose to allow all allies within the radius of the magic circle to listen to the same hum as well. In the case of an ambush or a surprise attack, the paladin may act on the surprise round (and any allies alerted by the alarm effect) and gains the bonus on initiative checks from the weapon even if it's not drawn.

As well, as a full-round action, the wielder may elect to swing his weapon over his head. If he does so, all creatures within 60 ft. of him of an alignment opposing his hear a blaring siren, taking 1d8 points of sonic damage and becoming stunned for 1 round unless they succeed on a Will saving throw (DC 12 + the wielder's Charisma modifier); the creatures are also deafened for 1d4 rounds as the siren echoes. The wielder may remain using this ability every turn, each time dealing the sonic damage, forcing a new Will save versus the stunning effect, and increasing the amount of rounds a creature is deafened by 1 round.
Prerequisites: Cast Magic Arms and Armor, alarm, detect chaos/evil/good/law, magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law, sound burst; creator must be a cleric of a deity with the Protection domain or an outsider with the chaotic, evil, good or lawful descriptor that follows such a deity.
Cost to Create: 31,130 gp + weapon cost + 2570 xp

Oddly underpriced for what it does; you're welcome to check the price for it, but I based it on having the caster level for each individual effect to be added as their minimal, instead of basing all effects at the caster level of the weapon. You may chastise me on that one, but recall that this weapon is not built or bought, but given or found.

This weapon is the tank-friendly and sentinel-friendly avenger weapon, and it shows. Warning pretty much makes sure you go first, while defending increases your defense and stunning makes every critical be a threat. The Detect Evil effect is permanent but also passive, and properly identifying WHO is evil requires making an action that most people would consider a threat to their lives. So be careful where you point that sword, sir knight...

Now, the main effect of the weapon is that you can make a Sound Burst effect at will as a full-round action by swinging your sword, dealing exactly as much damage as a Sound Burst would, but with the added effect of deafening the opponents (and also twice the area of effect). The main benefit is the ability to stun opponents each round (so as long as they fail their Will saves and you keep swinging that weapon), which serves as a very potent crowd-controlling tool.

INVIGORATOR
Price (Item Level): 61,200 gp + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (as weapon)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); conjuration
Activation: --
Weight: as weapon
The hilt of the weapon is comprised of two hand effigies wrapping the ricasso of the blade, a jade gem incrusted on the center of the hilt, a cruciform guard comprised of two wings, and a grip comprised of two twirled serpents whose heads always point to the right. The blade is entrusted with runes that strengthen healing magic.

An invigorator can only be wielded by a paladin, a good-aligned justiciar or a good-aligned anarch. When a character of this class wields it, an invigorator is treated as if a merciful longsword of an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels. When striking an undead creature, all of the weapon's damage is instead lethal damage (including the 1d6 points of damage from the merciful property). If the wielder has the lay on hands, submission or luck of the draw class features and uses it to heal a creature, it heals 50% extra hit points with it; in the case of lay on hands and submission (when used to heal), the wielder heals 3 points for every two points expended.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, heal; creator must be a cleric of a deity with the Healing domain or a good outsider that follows such deity.
Cost to Create: 30, 600 + weapon cost + 2448 XP

A very simple, yet useful weapon, the Invigorator is meant for those characters that want to boost their healing. It is, with the Divine Avenger, a very user-friendly weapon for both players and DMs, since the only two traits that it gets are the merciful property and the empowered LoH/healing submission/healing luck of the draw. This is a very nice weapon for the aspiring Knight Hospitaller, or the Paladin that wants to improve their healing.

As an addendum: believe it or not, it's almost taken straight from its original incarnation.

HALLOWED REDEEMER
Price (Item Level): 78,900 + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (weapon)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration
Activation: --
Weight: as weapon
The sword's blade is adorned with powerful runes of holiness and strength. The weapon itself is fearsome, a combination of dull black and glistening silver, with a simple yet menacing look.

When wielded by a paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar, the hallowed redeemer (the typical name, although other names may be given; for example, blackguards call these weapons unhallowed despoilers, justiciars call them lawgivers and anarchs call them chaosbringers) is a longsword of outsider bane of an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels. In the hands of a paladin, the weapon gains the sacred burst weapon property, the weapon is the bane of evil outsiders, and projects a magic circle against evil effect; on a blackguard, it gains the profane burst weapon property (except it causes no Constitution damage to the blackguard), becomes the bane of good outsiders, and projects a magic circle against good effect. In the hands of a justiciar, the weapon is treated as if it had the authoritative burst property (see below for the description), becomes the bane of chaotic outsiders, and projects a magic circle against chaos effect; on an anarch, the weapon is treated as if it had the entropic burst property (see below for the description), becomes the bane of lawful outsiders, and projects a magic circle against law effect. When an outsider of a subtype opposing that of the weapon (such as an evil outsider opposing a paladin wielding this weapon) enters the magic circle area of effect, it must succeed on a saving throw (DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the wielder's class level + the wielder's Charisma modifier) or become panicked, as if suffering the effects of a fear spell; a successful save still causes the outsider to become shaken.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, dispel chaos/evil/good/law, magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law, creator must be an outsider with the chaotic, evil, good or lawful subtype.
Cost to Create: 39,450 + weapon cost + 3156 XP

This is the outsider-bane specific weapon, and it shows. Sacred Burst and Profane Burst are easy to justify, but when I went for the lawful and chaotic versions, I had to make a slight translation. These are gifts to you guys; see right around the end of this post.

While the 4d6 (and possibly more) points of damage can be a real threat in the hands of the right individual, the true potential of the weapon is how the Magic Circle effect causes a brutal condition such as panic. Since the effect scales with your class level, multiclassing hurts like nobody's business, but if you remain pure-classed, you'll eventually see outsiders fleeing and cowering as you step, making this weapon a handy tool when attempting to travel through the Upper or Lower Planes (or Mechanus, Limbo, and similar places).

OCCULTSLAYER
Price (Item Level): 146,850 + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (weapon)
Caster Level: 18th
Aura: strong (DC 24); abjuration
Activation: -- and standard (command)
Weight: as weapon
This weapon has a blade intricately etched with a passage detailing a trial against a wielder of occult magic. It is adorned with powerful protective runes.

In the hands of a paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar, the occultslayer (also known as the mage-eater) is a magebane longsword of impedance with an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels. The weapon grants spell resistance equal to 10 plus the wielder's character level (including racial Hit Dice) against the spells of creatures of an alignment opposing the wielder's; if the wielder already has spell resistance, the wielder emits an aura that disrupts the spells of casters of the opposite alignment. Treat this aura as the effect of a globe of invulnerability, except that the spellcaster may not cast spells while within the area of effect of the aura unless it succeeds on a caster level check (against a DC equal to 10 plus the wielder's character level, including racial Hit Dice). A spellcaster is aware of this effect once it enters the aura emitted by the weapon. This also affects psychic powers, spell-like abilities, psi-like abilities, invocations, and mysteries, but not supernatural abilities (with one exception: a creature binding a vestige loses access to such powers for as long as it remains within the aura's range). Finally, the wielder may use greater dispel magic at will, as follows; the wielder of this weapon may use the targeted version of the spell (as a spellcaster of its character level, including racial Hit Dice), or ready an action to counterspell, but if using the area version of the spell, the spell resistance (or the aura of spell disruption) becomes inactive for 1d4 rounds.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, antimagic field, dispel chaos/evil/good/law; creator must be a cleric of a deity with the Magic domain or an outsider with the chaotic, good, evil or lawful descriptor that follows such deity.
Cost to Create: 73,425 + weapon cost +5874 XP

Hoo boy, now THIS is a weapon! Excuses for all fans of full spellcasters, but I have my issues with Wizards rewriting reality and thus I built this baby for them.

As you can see, while Divine Purifier is pretty potent, this one is blatantly broken, even to my standards. It is the spellcaster-bane specific weapon, and it's meant to make spellcasters of the opposite alignment cream their pants.

But, if I were to tell you this is based on an older version of the Holy Avenger, would you believe me? Believe it or not, the Globe of Invulnerability effect was part of the very first iteration of the Holy Avenger, right at 1st Edition. I kid you not: the Holy Avenger originally was a cold iron, +5 holy longsword with the spell resistance and globe of invulnerability effects. I just added the recent version's Greater Dispel Magic effect at will just for shucks, and also made it work against psionics, invocations, mysteries and to an extent vestiges. Only Truenaming and Maneuvers can pass through, but one is broken in the unworkable way (sorry, Zaq!) and the other is fair enough (I can't believe it's not Magic!). Aside from that, yes, I want those evil viziers to squirm when I draw Occultslayer, because of the years of utter frustration at treating me like a wuss!!

Oh, and as you may have noticed, the spell resistance and spell-disruption effects are based on character level, not class level. There's a huge difference...

SUNBLADE
Price (Item Level): 62,335 gp (18th)
Body Slot: - (weapon)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22) evocation
Activation: - and standard (command)
Weight: as short sword (or handaxe)
The blade is forged of alchemically treated silver, but glistens as if made of blown glass. The intricate hilt and guard resembling the emblem of the sun god are made of fine mithral. The blade emits a soothing white light, as if a shard of sunlight was stored inside, and despite its size, it feels unusually light.

The sunblade is a bastard sword which feels in the hands of a good-aligned wielder as a short sword, but in rare occasions is a dwarven waraxe that has the feel and weight of a handaxe. The sunblade, thus, is a +1 silvered bastard sword in the hands of any creature (but can be wielded by anyone proficient with a short sword), although good-aligned creatures treat it as a +2 silvered bastard sword of undead bane with the feel and weight of a short sword. Regardless of its wielder, it emits bright light in a 20 ft. radius and dim light 20 ft. beyond. Because of its special properties, a sunblade can be treated as either a bastard sword or a short sword (in the hands of a good creature) for purposes of feats and abilities that require it; as well, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization applies to the sunblade if applying to short swords or bastard swords.

In the hands of a paladin, the weapon is treated as a holy silvered bastard sword of undead bane with an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels of the paladin, to a minimum of +2. When attacking a creature of the Negative Energy Plane or an undead creature, the weapon deals double damage (except for the holy and undead bane extra damage dice), which triples in the case of a critical hit. This weapon allows dealing critical hits (and sneak attacks, if applicable) to undead creatures as if they were living.

Regardless of the class, a good creature may swing the weapon once per encounter while uttering a command word. The sunblade then emits a bright yellow radiance that acts as if full daylight (thus affecting creatures with sensitivity to light, and potentially destroying vampires and other creatures annihilated by sunlight). The range begins at 10 ft., and extends each round the wielder swings the weapon (by expending a standard action) until it reaches a maximum radius of 60 ft. Once the wielder stops swinging the blade, the radiance becomes a dim glow that persists for one minute before fading out.

Lore: The sunblade is based on an ancient weapon forged by clerics of Pelor to take the battle against the undead. The original Sunsword is now lost, though some people speak that it is trapped on a plane, awaiting for someone to bond with it and wield it to vanquish the dread ruler of a forgotten land.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, daylight; creator must be good.
Cost to Create: 31,335 gp, 2480 xp

Thought I'd forget about the Sun Blade, right? Well, I haven't, and here it is in all its avenging glory!

Essentially, the Sun Blade is another undead-bane specific weapon, but this one is a bit more specific, since it affects most evil creatures rather than just undead (or creatures of the Negative Energy Plane, which tend to be evil). However, the Sun Blade now exists in an axe form, for those rare warriors who want to dual-wield dwarven waraxes as if they were handaxes; this effect may "bleed" into other weapons that have the kind of "versatility" that bastard swords and dwarven waraxes have. Aside from those main changes, the weapon retains most of its nice traits, such as the reduced weight and the swinging effect, which has been upgraded from a 1/day to a 1/encounter effect.

BLOODFEAST
Price (Item Level): 87,300 + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (weapon)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); necromancy
Activation: -- and free (command)
Weight: as weapon
The sword is made of rusted iron, with a blood red color. The hilt is decorated with a single ruby and small hematites surrounding it, and the blade has wicked barbs and grooves that lead directly to the weapon.

A bloodfeast may only be wielded by a blackguard. When a character of that class wields it, it is treated as a vampiric bloodfeeding bloodstone longsword with an effective enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four class levels. If a vampiric touch spell (or spell-like ability, in the case of the blackguard) is stored on the weapon and the weapon has at least 3 blood points, the wielder may choose to expend all points in order to maximize the damage of the spell (as per the Maximize Spell feat) instead of empowering it. If the weapon has stored at least 8 blood points, the spell is first maximized, then empowered. When using blood points in this way, the weapon does not deal the extra damage from the bloodfeeding property.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, vampiric touch; creator must be a vampire that follows a deity with the Death domain or an evil outsider that follows said deity.
Cost to Create: 43,650 + weapon cost + 3492 XP

A weapon tailor-made for blackguards, Bloodfeast has a definite theme behind it: a blood-sucking blade that uses the devoured fluid to empower itself in a variety of ways. Against living creatures, this weapon can be a definite powerhouse, because of the "blood points" and the ability to empower, maximize, and even intensify Vampiric Touch spells, allowing the blackguard a healthy amount of temporary hit points whenever needed, just by placing one of the blackguard's vampiric touches in the weapon.

WRAITHBLADE
Price (Item Level): 97,740 + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (weapon)
Caster Level: 17th
Aura: strong (15th); necromancy
Activation: -- and standard (command)
Weight: as weapon
The sword is surrounded with an aura of shadows that distort its form, but a distinctive red glow on the center of its hilt, likely a gem, hints to its unholy power.

A wraithblade may only be wielded by a blackguard. When a character of that class wields it, it is treated as a souldrinking longsword of ghost touch with an effective enhancement bonus of 1 for every four class levels. A blackguard wielding this weapon may use it as its unholy symbol for purposes of rebuke undead and divine focus, and may rebuke undead (if it has the feature) as a cleric of its class level (instead of its class level -3). By speaking the command word, the wielder may become incorporeal for 1 round; by spending daily uses of rebuke undead while activating this feature, the wielder may extend the incorporeal state by 2 rounds per expended use. While incorporeal, the wielder appears as if a wraith.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, ability to rebuke undead, energy drain, ethereal jaunt; creator must be a wraith that follows a deity with the Death or Necromancy domain, or an outsider necromancer with the evil descriptor.
Cost to Create: 48,870 + weapon cost + 3910 xp

Another blackguard-specific weapon, this one is a spirit blade that causes negative levels with each critical hit, and grants the user the ability to become incorporeal. Much like Bloodfeast is the dark counterpart to Invigorator, Wraithblade is the counterpart to Divine Purifier, granting the ability to manipulate the undead in the same way a cleric of any deity would, making this weapon twice as more useful than the norm.

However, in case that you feel those daily uses of rebuke undead could be used for something else, you can become incorporeal for a few rounds by burning these uses, and since the weapon has the ghost touch enhancement, you can make attacks with it without problem, with all the benefits (including the negative levels!!). Land a lot of critical hits, and you may end up with a loyal shadow or wraith under your control...

JUDGEMENT BLADE
Price (Item Level): 124,800 + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (held)
Caster Level: 18th
Aura: strong (DC 24);
Activation: -- and standard (command)
Weight: as weapon
The weapon is a dull gray color, regardless of the material forged. The hilt has the symbol of the wielder's deity on a disk, or the judicial symbol of its country.

A judgement blade may only be wielded by a justiciar. When a character of that class wields it, it is treated as an axiomatic longsword with an effective enhancement bonus of 1 for every four class levels. A justiciar wielding this weapon may use it as its holy symbol for purposes of his censure/rebuke outsider ability and divine focus; furthermore, he may add the weapon's enhancement bonus to any verdict done at a distance (instead of through a melee or ranged attack). A justiciar that chose the third tier of the deterrent verdict also adds the doom burst special quality, one that chose the third tier of the incapacitating verdict adds the paralyzing burst quality instead, and one that chose the third tier of the retributive verdict adds the implacable special quality.

Furthermore, by pointing the weapon upon a creature and concentrating as a standard action on a specific crime, the weapon shows the justiciar whether the creature is guilty or not. A justiciar may also expend a use of its verdict ability as a swift action while pointing the weapon upon the creature and loudly speaking the nature of its crime; if the creature was guilty of the crime, the weapon's enhancement bonus increases by 2 and deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the specified creature. If the creature is not guilty of the aforementioned crime, the justiciar takes a -2 penalty to all attack rolls and damage rolls until the end of the encounter and for 1 minute afterward (if not in a combat encounter, one minute after leaving the creature's presence).
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, detect chaos, order's wrath, hold person or scare or vampiric touch; creator must be an inevitable or lawful outsider that follows a deity with the Law or Inquisition domain.
Cost to Create: 62,400 + weapon cost + 4992 xp

And for justiciars, here's a weapon tailor-made for their law enforcing needs. Judgment Blade not only serves as a counterpart to Divine Purifier, but it also has its own specific benefits, such as an extra effect based on the justiciar's choice of verdict, as well as a trait that grants a very specific kind of bane effect on a creature if it's guilty of a crime. Not only does it make the work of the justiciar far easier, it makes for a bounty hunter's ideal weapon, and the justiciar works phenomenally well in that line. Quite definitely an awesome weapon for an awesome class.

NEW WEAPON SPECIAL QUALITIES
AUTHORITATIVE
Price (Item Level): +1 bonus
Property: Weapon
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: moderate (DC 18); transmutation
Activation: standard (command)
This weapon is made of far too precise measurements, intricate to the last detail. A runic phrase describing a law of the land runs alongs its blade or haft.

By speaking the appropriate command word, you can sheathe an authoritative weapon in an energy aura of order. A fey that touches this weapon takes 1 point of Charisma for each round that it holds the weapon while the effect is activated, This effect lasts until you speak another command word to end it. A cold iron weapon enchanted with this trait does not need to pay the 2000 gp cost to enchant the weapon with this trait.
While activated, an authoritative weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of damage to any fey (or 2d6 points against a chaotic outsider) on a successful hit. Also, it is treated as lawful-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, axiomatic weapon (SpC 22)
Cost to Create: varies

AUTHORITATIVE BURST [SYNERGY]
Price (Item Level): +1 bonus
Property: Weapon
Caster Level: 12th
Aura: strong (DC 21); transmutation
Activation: standard (command) and --
Synergy Prerequisite: Authoritative
This weapon is made of perfect measurements, adorned with jewels fit for a king. Runic phrases describing the laws of the land run along its blade or haft and glow when its wielded.

An authoritative burst weapon functions as an authoritative weapon (see above).

In addition, the weapon explodes with lawful energy on a successful critical hit, dealing extra damage as set out on the table below. (This effect activates even if the target is not normally subject to extra damage from critical hits.) An authoritative burst weapon deals even more damage to chaotic outsiders on a successful critical hit. This burst does not harm you or any other creature other than the target; if you are a fey, though, you take 1d4 points of Charisma damage. This is a continuous effect and requires no activation. Even if the weapon has not been activated to deal extra damage because of the authoritative property, the weapon still deals its extra damage on a successful critical hit.

{TABLE=head]Critical Multiplier|Extra Damage|Chaotic Outsider Extra Damage
x2|1d10|2d10
x3|2d10|4d10
x4|3d10|6d10[/TABLE]

Projectile weapons bestow this property upon their ammunition.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, axiomatic storm (SpC 22)
Cost to Create: varies

ENTROPIC
Price (Item Level): +1 bonus
Property: Weapon
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: moderate (DC 18); transmutation
Activation: standard (command)
The weapon seems unusually frail, as it would break on any second, but is supernaturally resilient. A runic phrase detailing incomprehensible babble run alongside its blade or haft, but if understood, it details a daring act of violation of order.

By speaking the appropriate command word, you can sheathe an entropic weapon in an energy aura of chaos. A construct that touches this weapon takes 5 points of damage for each round that it holds the weapon while the effect is activated, This effect lasts until you speak another command word to end it.

While activated, an entropic weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of damage to any construct (or 2d6 points against a lawful outsider) on a successful hit. Also, it is treated as chaotic-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, inflict light damage
Cost to Create: varies

ENTROPIC BURST [SYNERGY]
Price (Item Level): +1 bonus
Property: Weapon
Caster Level: 12th
Aura: strong (DC 21); transmutation
Activation: standard (command) and --
Synergy Prerequisite: Entropic
The weapon not only seems frail and ready to break at any moment, but its form is unlike any other, as if the weapon was warped by mistreatment. Runic phrases detailing incomprehensible babble run alongside its blade or haft, but if understood, it would detail countless acts detailing violations of order.

An entropic burst weapon functions as an entropic weapon (see above).

In addition, the weapon explodes with chaotic energy on a successful critical hit, dealing extra damage as set out on the table below. (This effect activates even if the target is not normally subject to extra damage from critical hits.) An entropic burst weapon deals even more damage to lawful outsiders on a successful critical hit. This burst does not harm you or any other creature other than the target; if you are a construct, though, you take 10 points of damage and become stunned for 1 round. This is a continuous effect and requires no activation. Even if the weapon has not been activated to deal extra damage because of the entropic property, the weapon still deals its extra damage on a successful critical hit.

{TABLE=head]Critical Multiplier|Extra Damage|Lawful Outsider Extra Damage
x2|1d10|2d10
x3|2d10|4d10
x4|3d10|6d10[/TABLE]

Projectile weapons bestow this property upon their ammunition.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, inflict critical damage
Cost to Create: varies

This is probably one of the easiest pieces of work I've done, because it's basically translating Sacred and Profane to Law and Chaos. So there's little else to say except how to tweak the little problems in translation.

Entropic was pretty easy, working with constructs (entropy involves everything going to a state of chaos and decay, including constructs) and since the effect had to resemble the Cure X and Inflict X Wounds spells, Inflict X Damage was chosen instead. Not much problems here.

Authoritative, on the other hand, was much tougher. First, the name had to represent something lawful without implying good; hence, the term "authority" works like a charm. Second was how to justify the effect while resembling the Cure/Inflict line of spells. It would have been fair to consider the Repair X line, but it made little sense, since you don't use that to harm fey. Hence, I went towards the little trick of purely lawful spells, which makes far more sense.

Ideally, these should be balanced towards the Sacred and Profane traits, so they shouldn't cause any trouble. Even if you don't want to use the new Avengers, consider using this. Any bit of my work can be used, it doesn't have to be used completely.

ARTIFACT: THE SUNSWORD
Price (Item Level): - (major artifact)
Body Slot: - (weapon)
Caster Level: 20th
Aura: overwhelming (DC 25) evocation
Activation: - and standard (command)
Weight: as short sword
This magnificent weapon is made of a rare, alchemically treated combination of silver and glassteel, making the weapon unusually light and resilient. The hilt is made of pure gold and has the effigy of the sun god, Pelor, while the hilt is made of the finest mithral and platinum man has ever seen. The sword shines with the brightness of daylight, and its blade has an ancient inscription, which reads "I shall vanquish all darkness".

The Sunsword is a +5 holy keen sacred burst bastard sword of evil bane, that deals damage as if wielding the weapon with two hands but can be wielded in one hand with the same finesse as a short sword. In the hands of an epic level character, the weapon's enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every four character levels after the 20th (+6 at 24th level, +7 at 28th level, and so forth). The Sunsword bypasses damage reduction of creatures as if it were a magic (or epic) silvered weapon, but the weapon takes no penalty to damage rolls. The Sunsword emits bright light to a distance of 40 ft., with dim light radiance 40 ft. beyond. An evil character attempting to wield the sword gains five negative levels, and any undead creature touching the hilt is immediately destroyed (no saving throw). Against undead creatures, or creatures from the Negative Energy Plane, the weapon deals double damage (including the extra damage from holy, sacred burst and evil bane) and allows to land critical hits regardless of immunity (but not fortification).

At will, the wielder of the sword may swing it around, while uttering the command word. The Sunsword then emits a bright yellow radiance that acts as if using the sunburst spell cast by a 20th level cleric, except the effect is not instantaneous and creatures take damage every round the weapon is swung. The range begins at 10 ft., and extends each round the wielder swings the weapon (by expending a standard action) until it reaches a maximum radius of 60 ft. Once the wielder stops swinging the blade, the radiance becomes a dim glow that persists for one minute before fading out.

Lore: The Sunsword was forged in the land of Barovia to become the weapon of Light against the darkness of the realm. The weapon was forged by the high priest of Pelor, assisted by none other than Pelor himself, to vanquish evil where it stood. Its last location was rumored to be the fabled castle Ravenloft, where the count Strahd von Zarovich attempted to destroy it. Only the brave efforts of the assistant of the wizard that sought to destroy it on Strahd's behalf, but only the blade has been found. With a duplicate hilt, the weapon acts as if a sun blade for the individual that performs the bonding, but if the original hilt is to be found, its powers would be awakened again.

Destroying the Sunsword requires separating the blade and the hilt, and then destroying both weapons at the same exact time. If the blade or the hilt is destroyed but the other remains intact, a replacement blade or hilt and the reassembling of the weapon would form a sun blade, which with time would reform the Sunsword again once more. However, this may only happen if the blade OR the hilt are destroyed; if both exist, this effect does not work.

It is said that, if the blade and the hilt are separated, exact duplicates of both are formed, and cross-reassembled at the Grand Cathedral of Pelor (the real hilt with the duplicate blade, and viceversa), the Sunsword could be duplicated, so as long as the weapons are kept in the same place for one year.

Special: Evil bane acts like any bane weapon, except it provides its effect against any creature of evil alignment, or with the evil subtype.

Paladins gain special properties while wielding the Sunsword. The weapon gains the metalline property, may be used as their holy symbol for purposes of spells and turn undead, and their effective cleric level for purposes of turn undead becomes equal to their class level, instead of their class level -3. Paladins that worship Pelor add the heavenly burst special quality to the weapon and may perform a greater turning once per day (as if they had the Sun domain) while wielding their weapon.

And, as the piéce de resistance, a Sunsword that really makes it worthwhile to travel to Ravenloft to!!! While the Sun Blade is fine on its own, the SUNSWORD!!! should be more spectacular than it is. Unfortunately, if you've seen Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, you know that's not the case. This weapon should be a prized artifact, something that should feel you can break the game with. If Divine Purifier almost feels like cheating, this is pretty much so. Now, don't tell me "nerf the Sunsword!!", alright?

[T.G. Oskar]

THE ARMOR SUITS OF VIRTUE
Much like the Avenger weapons mentioned above, the following weapons are unique and exclusive to Paladins (whether the original version or those from Project Heretica), and some are made exclusively for Blackguards (both original version and Project Heretica version), Justiciars or Anarchs. All suits of armor share the following traits:


The suit of armor can only be made of the following types: scale mail, chain mail, breastplate, splint mail, banded mail, half-plate, full plate. Occasionally, an armor suit of virtue may assume the form of a chain shirt, but not any other kind of light armor. The armor may be forged of mithral or adamantine in very rare occasions, providing the usual benefits. All suits of armor are described as if using a full plate; replace it for the desired armor type (including the material composition, if desired) when granting the suit of armor to a player.
The suit of armor has a magical enhancement bonus of +1 regardless of the user. Only a paladin (or a blackguard, a justiciar or an anarch) may unleash the full power of the suit of armor, generally improving it to its maximum capability. A character may attempt to emulate the paladin status, but to do so it must succeed on a DC 25 Use Magic Device check, and the effective Divine Champion level for the character is equal to its Use Magic Device check minus 25.
Although indicated on the armor description, the armor suit's enhancement bonus increases based on the class level of the user. As a general rule, the armor gains an enhancement bonus as if a magic vestment spell had been cast by a cleric of the character's class level (thus, an 8th level paladin wearing a full plate of righteous endeavor treats the suit of armor as a +2 armor, while a 13th level paladin treats it as a +3 armor). Unlike the magic vestment spell, the enhancement bonus of the armor keeps increasing after 20th level (thus, a 24th level paladin treats the suit of armor as a +6 armor).
Unless indicated, an armor suit of virtue does not possess armor spikes. If they do, they are enchanted separately, although the wearer may exchange part of the enhancement bonus to AC into the armor spikes.
If a suit of armor is meant for a character of a specific alignment, the armor grants a negative level to its wielder. An armor suit of virtue meant for all divine champions has no such penalty.
Although the armor is given a price, item level and construction method, an armor suit of virtue is never crafted; instead, it is always given as a gift for a deserving divine champion by a powerful representative of its alignment (for example, a paladin could receive a full plate of righteous endeavor through a warden archon or a ursinal guardinal). In rare occasions, the suit of armor may be found as part of a treasure, likely an armor suit of virtue worn by a slain champion; in that case, the armor does not grant the divine champion its abilities until it proves its worth. In vastly rarer occasions, the armor suit may be already part of the divine champion (such as being inherited, or secretly refurbished and improved by a deity or outsider), but it does not show its power until a critical moment. In the latter two cases, it is better to use the rules for an item of legacy (see the Weapons of Legacy supplement for more details).
Although not mentioned, each suit of armor has a degree of intellect, but are not intelligent suits of armor. In rare occasions (a roll of 1% if using random determination) the suit of armor has full intellect (likely a found armor suit of virtue that houses the soul of a powerful slain divine champion whom decided to remain upon the weapon to prevent his fate from befalling others). The limited sapience of the armor suit of virtue allows it to restrain its abilities if a divine champion has not been found worthy of using it, and when the champion has regained worthiness. An armor suit of virtue with full intellect usually has a restricted alignment and the usual purpose of advancing the cause of his alignment (unless the wielder had a specific goal in mind).


In the case of a paladin wielding both an avenger weapon and an armor suit of virtue, both create a synergistic effect:


If the avenger and the armor suit of virtue are meant for different duties (such as a divine avenger and a Hellshield armor suit), the magic circle effect of the weapon doubles in potency (providing a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus to saving throws).
If the avenger and the armor suit of virtue are meant for the same duty, the two gain a further synergistic effect. Examples of same-duty items include:

a divine avenger and an armor of righteous endeavor
a divine purifier and a Truedeath armor
a hallowed redeemer and a Hellshield armor
an occultslayer and a Spellcease armor

If the avenger and the armor suit of virtue are both fully intelligent but are meant for different duties (such as an intelligent divine protector and an intelligent Drachensgaard armor), the items won't influence their user unless one quest conflicts with the duty of another (such as, for example, in the case of defending a town from a dragon assault or attacking the dragon on its lair); in this case, if one item influences over another, the other item becomes inactive until the duty is complete (if the user overcomes both influences, nothing happens unless the wielder shirks its duties). In the case of intelligent items with the same duty, the wielder gains a -4 penalty to the Will save to overcome the influence as both items act in unison.


The counterpart to the Avenger weapons, the Armor Suits of Virtue are meant to provide the ultimate in protection to their wearer, which of course must belong to one of the divine champion classes. Most of what I've said with the Avenger weapons applies here, so make sure you give it a watch.

The main difference, of course, is that while the weapon special qualities are awesome, the armor special qualities suffer quite a bit. Those on the DMG are pretty lackluster (IMO, at least), and its pretty hard to craft a proper suit of armor aside from a few choice enhancements (Healing, Blurring/Greater Blurring/Displacement, BoED's Soulfire, Heavy Fortification). Thus, you'll see that many of the enhancements are not accounted for as part of the enhancement bonus cost, but rather as part of a spell effect.

Oh, just like with the Avenger weapons, the Armor Suits of Virtue are also based on armor presented elsewhere, but this time not as part of D&D history but as part of semi-official supplements. Their history was really awesome, so I had to translate them. At least one will be VERY familiar to you guys.

ARMOR OF RIGHTEOUS ENDEAVOR
Price (Item Level): 61,500 + armor cost
Body Slot: Body
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); transmutation
Activation: --
Weight: as armor
This full plate has its chest blazoned with the symbol of the user's deity. When worn, the armor shines with light of its own accord, magnified by the glistening reflection of external light. Worn by different people, the armor changes form to represent their inner selves.

When wielded by a paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar, an armor of righteous endeavor (its most common name, but usually known as the armor of vices, or a judge's armor-coat) has an enhancement bonus of +1 for every four character levels. Furthermore, the armor grants damage reduction against attacks based on the user's character level:
{TABLE=head]Character Level|Damage Reduction**
1st to 9th|1/alignment
10th to 12th|3/alignment
13th to 15th|6/magic and alignment
16th to 20th|9/magic and alignment
21st+|10/epic and alignment*[/TABLE]
*: "alignment refers here to the alignment opposed to that of the wielder. For example, a paladin gains damage reduction against all attacks except those of evil weapons.
**: if wielded by a character with 20 levels in a divine champion class, it increases the wielder's existing damage reduction by means of class by 5, up to a maximum DR of 20.

If wielded by a divine champion that also has a divine avenger, the armor also grants a bonus on all saving throws against spells and abilities of an alignment opposed to that of the wielder (such as evil spells or a supernatural ability used by an evil character, for example, in the case of a paladin) equal to the armor's enhancement bonus. This is in addition to the double-power magic circle effect.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, resistance, righteous might; creator must be an outsider with the chaotic, evil, good or lawful subtype.
Cost to Create: 30,750 gp + armor cost + 2460 xp

Just like the Divine Avenger is the vanilla Avenger, this is the Vanilla Armor Suit of Virtue. The armor protects from the basics, granting DR against everything except certain weapons (meaning you're protected from quite a bit of stuff) and the bonus to saves if you happen to hold the Divine Avenger. It should be pretty basic protection, coupled with a shield for maximum effectiveness.

DRACHENSGAARD
Price (Item Level): 142,000 + weapon cost
Body Slot: Body
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: Strong (DC 22); abjuration and transmutation
Activation: -- and swift (command)
Weight: as armor
The armor is crafted of metal plates with incrusted dragon scales, coated with a metallic sheen or thick paint, over a layer of dragon hide. The armor is neither oppressively heavy nor unusually light, but offers superb protection against attacks. When worn, one can feel the power of a dragon surging forth.

When worn by a paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar, Drachensgaard is treated as a dragonhide full plate with an effective enhancement bonus of +1 for every four class levels. Drachensgaard is forged against a specific kind of true dragon in mind, but works equally well against all kinds of dragons. The armor grants the following traits against all dragons in particular:


Immunity to the dragon's frightful presence ability
Resistance 10 against fire, cold, electricity and acid attacks. This applies to attacks from non-dragons, as well.
The evasion class ability, but only against the breath weapon and tail sweep attack of dragons, as well as any spell that forces a Reflex save cast by a dragon.


Against the specified kind of true dragon, Drachensgaard provides the following benefits:


The effective enhancement bonus of the armor increases by 2
Damage reduction 10 against the dragon's attacks
Spell resistance against the dragon's spells equal to 15 + the wielder's character level.
+8 bonus on saving throws against the spells and spell-like abilities of the dragon.


Once per day, the wielder of the weapon can activate the full powers of the Drachensgaard when fighting an opponent of the dragon type. Once active, the armor grants the following benefits to the wielder for up to one minute:


A +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Constitution and Charisma
A +2 enhancement bonus to natural armor, plus 1 for every three character levels after the 3rd. This stacks with any existing natural armor bonus, but not with an enhancement bonus to natural armor.
A fly speed of 60 ft. with perfect maneuverability.
Immunity to magic sleep and paralysis effects.
Two claw attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage.
Once per transformation, a breath weapon that deals 1d6 points of damage per two character levels. The breath weapon depends on the armor's color or hue (for example, a Drachensgaard with golden scales duplicates the effect of a gold dragon's cone of fire, while a Drachensgaard with black scales duplicates the effect of a black dragon's line of acid).


When first worn, the armor indicates the type of dragon against which it is most efficient, usually in Draconic but understandable to the wielder regardless of language (for example, a Drachensgaard made to face red dragons will indicate its purpose, most likely through a message such as "death to the crimson ones!" or "slay the proud head of Tiamat's own!"). Usually, a Drachensgaard is painted with a color (or hue) of an opposite dragon type; thus, a Drachensgaard with a metallic hue is best against one type of chromatic dragon, while a suit of red or black color is best against a type of metallic dragon.

Lore: The first Drachensgaard was created by a draconic cleric of Bahamut and given to a non-draconic champion and dragonslayer. The armor was forged from the scales of a great wyrm red dragon slain after a difficult battle, with the dragonslayer being the only survivor. The creator, a gold dragon itself, bathed the scales in molten gold and provided the armor with powerful protective magic in order to ward off other followers of Bahamut and fellow metallic dragons of the dragonslayer's quest, and to warn the children of Tiamat of the power of such armor. After a fell trap by a follower of Tiamat, the original Drachensgaard was kept as a prize by Tiamat herself, and now suits of armor of both types exist, given only to the most powerful dragonslayers.

Special: A Drachensgaard may be altered to become more effective against another type of dragon in particular. To do so, a ritual must be made by collecting enough dragon hide to create a full plate armor for a character of the same size as the wielder, dragon scales from a great wyrm dragon of the type the wielder wants the armor to be most effective against, and no less than 1,000 gp from the treasure horde of slain dragons. The wielder must then seek a dragon and spend at least 24 uninterrupted hours in prayer and meditation as the dragon provides its power. At the end, the armor changes its effectiveness and becomes adorned with the color of the dragon that sponsored the ritual. This ritual may not be done more than once per month.

As well, there are some suits of Drachensgaard armor that have scales of the color of gems. These are most effective against a type of gem dragon, and thus grant power resistance and a +8 bonus against the powers and psi-like abilities of gem dragons.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, draconic might (SC 72) or polymorph, protection from spells, resist energy; creator must be a dragon or outsider that follows Bahamut or Tiamat.
Cost to Create: 71,000 gp + weapon cost + 5700 xp

Fluffy yet effective, the Drachensgaard is meant to assist in the battle against the most notorious monster in the game: the eponymous dragon. The original incarnation was pretty weak, almost hilariously so (a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against dragon's breath weapons? A bonus on Climb checks?). Thus, the armor needed some buffing.

As you can see, it has three "modes", each more powerful than the one below. The first is the normal mode, which provides a modicum of protection against dragons. The second is the hunter mode, which grants superior protection against the type of dragon it's best suited for. Finally, the "half-dragon" mode is meant to grant the wielder the upper ground (so to speak) in the battle against dragons. If using the "half-dragon" mode against the type of dragon the armor is best suited for, you're in for two steps below invulnerability.

HELLSHIELD
Price (Item Level): 124,000 + armor cost
Body Slot: Body
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration and transmutation
Activation: -- and swift (command)
Weight: as armor
The armor is comprised of several plates that have etched images regarding to the war between good and evil. The images show bodies of felled fiends vanquished by the image of a sun, struck by heavenly lightning, or even pierced by a blade from the heavens, indicating the definite victory of the forces of good.

The Hellshield armor may only be worn by a paladin or a justiciar of lawful good alignment. Worn by this divine champion, Hellshield has an enhancement bonus of +1 for every four character levels. The armor also contains the following properties:


The ability to resist elemental and alignment traits of the Lower Planes. Furthermore, the wearer is constantly under the benefit of an endure elements effect for as long as it stays on the Lower Planes.
Resistance 20 to fire, cold and acid attacks.
A constant discern lies effect while wielding the armor. In the case of a spell or effect that would bypass this trait, the effective caster level for this ability is equal to the wearer's character level.
Spell resistance 15 + character level against spells and abilities of evil outsiders. This also includes psionic powers and psi-like abilities, if applicable.


Once per day, the wearer of this armor may unleash the full power of Hellshield. When active, the wearer gains the following abilities for 1 minute:


A +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Constitution, Wisdom and Charisma
Temporary hit points equal to 5 plus the wielder's character level.
A fly speed of 60 ft, with perfect maneuverability.
Damage reduction 10/magic and evil. If the wielder's character level exceeds 20, it is instead DR 10/epic and evil. In the case of a 20th level paladin with damage reduction as a class feature, the damage reduction increases by 5, to a total of 20.
Immunity to fire, cold and acid attacks.
Any melee attack (whether with a natural or manufactured weapon) is treated as magic and good aligned for purposes of bypassing damage reduction. If the wearer's character level exceeds 20, the attack is also treated as if using an epic weapon.


The benefit of Hellshield may be activated only as a swift action, with one exception. If the wearer of this armor falls to 0 hit points or less because of an attack of an evil outsider, he or she may activate the full benefit of this armor as an immediate action in response to the attack. This implies that the wearer may bear the brunt of the attack and remain conscious and alive for the duration of the benefit, thus potentially ignoring a fatal attack, so as long as the wielder has more than 0 hit points remaining after the attack has been resolved.

If Hellshield is wielded by a paladin that also wields a hallowed redeemer, the latter gains the benefit of the evil outsider bane special property. This is in addition to the double-strength magic circle against evil effect.

Lore: It is said that the first Hellshield was the suit of armor worn by one of the first Knights of the Chalice, blessed by the herald of Heironeous himself to bear the brunt of traveling through the Lower Planes and taking the battle to their own ground. The first Hellshield was lost nearly a millenia ago, its whereabouts unknown. Some say that the original wielder of the suit of armor was vanquished after a brutal assault, his last words to Heironeous being "I have seen...the Chalice...". Since then, the members of the Order of the Chalice grant Hellshield as a parting gift for those high-ranking members who dare to undertake the quest of the fallen knight-brother, as none has ever returned alive after departing.

Special: a twisted version of the Hellshield, known as the Heaven's Sin, can only be worn by blackguards and justiciars of lawful evil alignment. The armor has the following traits:


The ability to resist elemental and alignment traits of the Upper Planes. Furthermore, the wearer is constantly under the benefit of an endure elements effect for as long as it stays on the Lower Planes.
Resistance 20 to fire, cold and electricity attacks.
A constant glibness effect while wielding the armor, as if cast by a bard of the wearer's character level.
Spell resistance 15 + character level against spells and abilities of good outsiders. This also includes psionic powers and psi-like abilities, if applicable.


Once per day, the wearer of this armor may unleash the full power of Heaven's Sin. When active, the wearer gains the following abilities for 1 minute:


A +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Constitution, Wisdom and Charisma
Temporary hit points equal to 5 plus the wielder's character level.
A fly speed of 60 ft, with perfect maneuverability.
Damage reduction 10/magic and good. If the wielder's character level exceeds 20, it is instead DR 10/epic and good. In the case of a 20th level blackguard (or justiciar) with damage reduction as a class feature, the damage reduction increases by 5, to a total of 20.
Immunity to fire, cold and electricity attacks.
Any melee attack (whether with a natural or manufactured weapon) is treated as magic and evil aligned for purposes of bypassing damage reduction. If the wearer's character level exceeds 20, the attack is also treated as if using an epic weapon.


In all other regards, it behaves as a Hellshield, except it only benefits evil divine champions. The benefit of Heaven's Sin when combined with an unholy despoiler grants the weapon the good outsider bane special quality, however.

No similar armor exists for anarchs, nor for justiciar of lawful neutral alignment.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, discern lies or glibness, endure elements, protection from energy, visage of the deity (SC 230) or polymorph; creator must be an outsider with the good or evil subtype that follows a deity with the War domain and the Good or Evil domains.
Cost to Create: 62,250 gp + armor cost + 4980 xp

The suit of armor meant to fight evil (or good) outsiders in their own turf, both Hellshield and Heaven's Sin are meant to provide great protection when fighting on the Lower (or Upper) Planes. The protection provided is pretty standard, with AC, energy resistance and SR against the pesky spells and SLAs of outsiders, plus protection from the harsh environment (to an extent) and mental protection against lies (or the ability to lie with great skill). Much like the Drachensgaard, it also has a "super mode" you can activate that grants you many of the traits of a celestial (or fiend), plus the double-strength Magic Circle effect which grants even MORE protection.

Also, is it pretty obvious I dig the Chalice fluff? It's pretty awesome, particularly that Shyamalan-esque twist. I would have hoped the writers did something with the Knights of the Chalice; else, I'll have to make an adventure of my own...

HUMILIANTHIR
Price (Item Level): 134,100 + armor cost (armor), 117,750 + double armor cost (barding)
Body Slot: Body (also barding)
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); divination and transmutation
Activation: -- and swift (command)
Weight: as armor (or barding)
This armor is comprised of a suit of armor fit for riding, as well as a barding for the rider's mount. The suit of armor has details regarding horses and pegasi on its chest plate, while the barding has the image of a mount and rider striding forth.

When worn by a paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar, Humilianthir acts as a linked feathered full plate of nimbleness and mobility (see the feathered special quality in Arms and Equipment Guide, page 93) with an effective enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four character levels. Humilianthir has a companion barding that acts as a linked full plate barding of easy travel with an enhancement bonus equal to 1 for every four character levels of the mount's master when worn by a divine champion's special mount, but the mount's master must be wielding the armor in order for the mount to take benefit of its own armor. Despite its weight, a flying mount wielding Humilianthir is capable of flight if the barding is treated as medium or heavy armor, but it still takes speed penalties. A non-flying mount may gain the benefit of its master's flight ability by means of the feathered special quality as long as he or she rides it.

When both parts of the armor are worn, the wielders may expend their daily uses of their linked special quality in a unique way. As a swift action, the divine champion may expend one of the daily uses of its linked armor in order to teleport into the mount's saddle, as if a greater teleport spell had been cast, with the following restrictions:


The mount and the rider must be within 500 feet of each other.
The mount and the rider must be within line of sight of each other. If the rider (or the mount, in the case of the latter being intelligent) uses the linked property of the armor (or the barding), they are treated as seeing each other for purposes of this ability.
The rider may only teleport into the mount's saddle (or back), not away from it.
Spells that restrict teleportation, such as a dimensional anchor or dimensional lock, restrict the teleportation in case the mount or the rider are affected by them.
If the mount is intelligent, it may activate a daily use of its own linked barding to duplicate the same effect; alternatively, the mount may elect to warp into its master's side. A mount must have an Intelligence score of 8 or more to use either the linked barding special property or the teleportation property, but may not use it unless it senses its master is in danger or the divine champion expresses need for it.


Lore: Humilianthir is an ancient Elven term, loosely translated into "the bond between mount and master". The original was a suit of leather armor and leather barding, created by an elven sorceress for her brother, a rare paladin of Corellon Larethian, and his mount. The elven warrior, sir Caldeth, became a powerful defender of the elven lands and a brave warrior alongside his brave steed, Silverhooves, because of his skill at mounted combat. The original pair of armor and barding that comprise Humilianthir are prized treasures of the elven civilization, and have since been duplicated by other mounted knights, given to those who have a supernatural bond with their trusty steeds.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cat's grace, fly (armor), bear's endurance (barding), telepathic bond, greater teleport (both); crafter must be an elf or outsider that follows a deity with the Travel domain.
Cost to Create: 67,050 + armor cost + 5364 xp (armor); 58,875 + double armor cost + 4710 xp (barding)

See the part of the lore? It's taken verbatim from the place I found Humilianthir in the first place. It's literally a set of leather armor and leather barding meant for a paladin and its special mount.

I always heard, and I found out afterwards by reading 1st Edition books, that Paladins ALWAYS seek for the best type of armor in terms of construction, regardless of their magical properties. Thus, if a full plate was found, it was considered more valuable to the Paladin than a +5 Magic-Eater Half-Plate of Greater Blurrying because the full plate, normally, would grant better protection.

So...why, again, was Humilianthir a set of leather equipment for a Paladin? Really beats me.

The teleportation aspect, though, is something I'm proud of, because it uses an existing trait of the item and turns it into something else. Turning uses of the Linked armor property into uses of teleportation was a clever twist to the main effect of the original Humilianthir (which was a 1/day teleport into the mount's saddle), which reinforces quite a bit the unique properties of the armor (and the barding) by allowing tactical retreats and swift re-mounting. Suitable for mounted combat, no? Plus, you get flight as well, so you don't have to worry about aerial enemies!

PRAESIDIUM LUMINATA
Price (Item Level): 160,200 + armor cost
Body Slot: Body
Caster Level: 18th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration, divination and evocation
Activation: -- and swift (command)
Weight: as armor
The armor seems plain, with no ostentatious decorations, but it shines with a light of its own. A small buckle on the belt with a holy symbol that seems to change into that of the wearer serves as the one sole decoration and proof of magical trait.

Praesidium Luminata may only be worn by a paladin or a justiciar of lawful good alignment. When worn by one of these divine champions, Praesidium Luminata acts as a called full plate of daylight with an enhancement bonus of +1 for every four character levels. The armor gains the following properties when its daylight ability is active:


All good allies within the area of bright light of the divine champion add half the armor's enhancement bonus (round up) as a morale bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls, while evil creatures in the same range take a penalty to the same rolls instead.
The light is bright enough to affect creatures with light sensitivity, but is not considered as natural sunlight for purposes of weaknesses related to them (such as a vampire's weakness to sunlight). Creatures with such sensibility are affected as normal.
Shapeshifters within the area of the bright light have an image of their true selves superposed upon their own for as long as they are within the area of the light. The shapeshifter is not aware of the juxtaposition of its true self, but may be aware by the reactions of others. The image is superposed for as long as they remain within the area of bright light, and for one minute afterwards within the area of dim illumination (if they are outside of both areas, the image no longer appears).


While the aura of light is active, a divine champion may temporarily augment the potency of the illumination as a standard action. Until the beginning of the wearer's next turn, the armor emits a blinding light, duplicating the effect of a sunburst spell on all evil creatures with a caster level equal to the wearer's character level. The save DC for the partial effect is equal to 10 + half the wearer's character level + the wearer's Charisma modifier. Using this ability reduces the duration of the daylight ability for one minute; if the duration of the aura of light is of less than one minute, the sunburst effect activates but the aura is extinguished at the end of the wearer's current turn (instead of the next turn).

Lore: Praesidium Luminata, whose name means "safeguard(ing) of the light" in a rare ancient dialect that combines traits of Common, Draconic and Celestial, was given as a gift by a priest of Pelor to a paladin of Heironeous after an outstanding defense of an outpost against the minions of Hextor. The armor swells with the power of the sun, and originally held none of the traits of detecting shapeshifting. How this trait came to exist within the copies of Praesidium Luminata is unknown, but it is said that it represents the power the moon has over some shapechangers, such as lycanthropes.

In the EBERRON Campaign Setting, the first suit known as Praesidium Luminata was a majestic piece of armor worn by a paladin of Dol Arrah, until it fell into the hands of a crusader of the Silver Flame during the crusade against the lycanthropes. The armor was blessed by a mysterious individual which granted it the ability to reveal the true form of those that touched the light. Ironically, he was unaware that his fight against the lycanthropes had turned him into a lycanthrope himself, and he was slain by his own men after the armor revealed his true form. Some claim that the armor is thus tainted by the enigmatic Traveler, but the Purified claim that as a traveler's tale and keep the original hidden from the eyes of the faithful, as a relic of the great Crusade.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, heroism, sunburst, true seeing; creator must be an outsider with the good subtype that follows a deity with the Glory or Sun domains.
Cost to Create: 80,100 gp + armor cost + 6408 xp

A multiple purpose suit of armor, the Praesidium Luminata definitely works wonders against many creatures, such as light-sensitive enemies, undead and shapechangers. Heck, just gaining a +2 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls just by wearing the armor helps, but providing the same as a penalty to your enemies?

But, I know that's not the whole shebang that's gonna get you "what the heck did ya smoke!?" It's definitely gonna be the Sunburst effect, because if you calculate how many uses you get out of it, you get...well, between 1 to 30 uses out of it. Yes, that's pretty amazing if you think about it, but the worst is that you use your character level for its caster level (and the saving throw is pretty high as well, so few chances of a partial effect). Sunburst is not that amazing normally, but against undead, it's almost a death sentence, and two rounds worth of 25d6 points of damage at 25th level is really hilarious.

Of course, I got inspired on what I did with Humilianthir, and since the original is sorta meh (it offers the morale bonus to attack, the penalty to attack against enemies, the revealing effect of the light, amongst others), but it has something this one lacks, and that's the ability to reveal invisible creatures. So, it loses something REAL nice, and instead you get something broken? Ain't I a schtinkah? (Excuses to Warner Bros. for doing such a bad mimic of Bugs).

SPELLCEASE
Price (Item Level): 157,000 + armor cost
Body Slot: Body
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration
Activation: --
Weight: as armor
The breast plate on this armor has a set of five purple gems shaped like a V. Runic phrases etched in the armor serve as wards against fell magic.

When worn by a paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar, Spellcease works as a magic-eating full plate of spell resistance with an enhancement bonus equal to +1 for every four character levels. The armor grants spell resistance equal to 5 + the wearer's character level against all spells, except those with the "harmless" descriptor on their saving throw or spell resistance.

Even if the wearer fails its saving throw against the spell (if any) and the spell bypasses the armor's spell resistance, if the spell has an alignment descriptor opposed to that of the wearer or is cast by a creature of the opposite alignment to that of the wearer's divine champion class, the spell is absorbed without ill effect. Once it is first worn, the armor absorbs a quantity of spells equal to 5d4+30 spell levels; each time the armor absorbs one-fifth of the specified amount, one of the gems turns black and inert. Once all five gems turn inert (and thus, all spell levels have been absorbed), the armor loses its capability to absorb any more spells.

Recharging the gems is extremely dangerous. As a full-round action, the wearer of this armor may purge the weapon of any absorbed magic it has, but the wearer takes damage as a result; for every spell level the wearer purges, it takes 1d6 points of damage (to a maximum of 50d6 if the armor manages to absorb 50 spell levels). If the armor absorbed its maximum amount (between 35 to 50 spell levels, based on the result of the roll) and the wearer purges the spell energy at once, the amount of spells absorbed may be rerolled; else, the wearer may only absorb up to the specified amount. This damage may not be resisted by any means, and the wearer must purge all spell energy absorbed at once. The damage is done even if the spell had other effects (for example, an absorbed disintegrate spell and an absorbed flesh to stone spell do not deal their usual effects, instead dealing the aforementioned damage).

If the wearer of this armor wields an Occultslayer weapon, whenever the divine champion attempts to counterspell using the greater dispel magic effect of the weapon, the spell is reflected back to the caster instead of merely counterspelling. This effect works only once per round, and disables the aura of spell disruption of the Occultslayer for 1d4 rounds as if the wielder had used the area version of greater dispel magic.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, spell resistance, spell turning; creator must be an outsider that follows a deity with the Magic or Protection domain.
Cost to Create: 78,500 gp + armor cost + 6280 xp

If Occultslayer was meant to be THE weapon against spellcasters, this is THE armor against them. Spell resistance is mostly a joke, especially one like that, but the spell absorption effect really makes this armor a menace. Twinned, Split Ray, Empowered, Maximized Enervation? No worries; that's about 6 spell levels absorbed, so you can withstand what could be a potentially lethal combination (though, it can be more if the Wizard isn't using metamagic reducers).

The trick, of course, is to know when and how to discharge. 50d6 can be a lethal amount of damage, more if it's taken at once. With an average of 175 and a full amount of 300, very few characters may withstand such an onslaught of damage coming at them. Discharging, say, 5 or 10 spell levels while you're resting might not be a hassle, but discharging 35 to 50 spell levels isn't as so. Thus, if you accept the gamble, you can have a chance to absorb MORE spell levels (and thus get greater protection) or less spell levels (and a more manageable range of damage).

Oh, and the Spell Turning effect if you combine Occultslayer and Spellcease? Yes, I am angry at spellcasters. Grr.

TRUEDEATH
Price (Item Level): 102,000 + armor cost
Body Slot: Body
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration and transmutation
Activation: -- and full round
Weight: as armor
This suit of armor is adorned with holy sigils that ward against the undead and their powers. The symbol of a deity of light is proudly embedded in the armor's chest piece. The armor is coated with a film of dew, which is blessed by the power of the armor.

Truedeath may only be worn by a paladin. If worn by one, Truedeath acts like a soulfire full plate of ghost ward with an effective enhancement bonus of +1 for every four character levels. Unlike the typical ghost ward effect, the wearer may add all of its armor bonus to AC against incorporeal touch attacks, not just the armor's enhancement bonus.

Each time an undead creature makes a successful attack against the wearer of Truedeath, the creature takes 2d4 points of damage from the coating of holy water that exudes from the armor. As a full round action, the wearer of the armor may elect to gather all of the holy water drops from the armor and launch it as a splash weapon, acting exactly as a flask of holy water except the wearer adds his character level to the damage dealt to the main target, and half damage to undead within 5 ft. This effect only affects undead creatures, not evil outsiders (as would be usual for a flask of holy water). After doing so, the wearer of the armor loses the coating of holy water dew until it recharges (which takes one minute).

If the wearer of Truedeath is slain, the armor prevents the wearer from spawning into an undead creature by any means. This effect works for as long as the armor is worn over the corpse, and for an amount of days equal to the wearer's character level; if the wearer is then affected by such an effect, the corpse is immediately destroyed.

If the wearer of Truedeath wields a divine purifier, the retaliation damage is instead equal to the paladin's turning damage, and the wearer needs only to expend a daily use of turn undead to immediately renew the holy water coating on the armor as a free action. This is in addition to the double-strength magic circle effect that works only against undead creatures.

Lore: The origin of Truedeath is uncertain, but some loremasters relate its creation to one of the few orders that harbor a significant number of hunters of the dead, the church of Pelor, and a sacred font of holy water. Legend states that the first suits of Truedeath were forged for the most skilled hunters, and that their powers emerge from a secret font that harbors holy water, hidden in one of the many churches of Pelor (or a suitable deity with the Sun domain; in the EBERRON Campaign Setting, the font is located in Flamekeep hidden from the eyes of the Purified). It is said that all copies of the suit are linked to the font, and if the font were to be drained of its water or destroyed, all copies would lose such power. The waterfont, known only as the "font of St. Michael" (in honor of one of the greatest hunters the order has ever had), is said to bless and purify any water placed upon it, and that bathing in the waters restores youth. Truth is, legend states that the original font was destroyed and remade, and that there is more than one font, which ensures the power of Truedeath remains intact.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bless water, death ward, mage armor, spawn screen (SC 197), turn undead; creator must be a cleric of Pelor (Lathander or Re-Horakhty on Forgotten Realms, Dol Arrah or the Silver Flame on EBERRON) or an outsider that follows a deity with the Sun or Glory domains.
Cost to Create: 51,000 gp + armor cost + 4080 xp

The armor against those pesky undead creatures, Truedeath is definitely one armor you'll want to wear. It has the combination of what's possibly the two best armor enhancements around: a permanent Death Ward effect and extra AC to touch, which is doubly formidable! But, the retaliation effect against undead creatures places it firmly in the hands of undead hunters, probably Hunters of the Dead which might like the superb protection provided by the armor.

ARMOR OF THE DREAD EMPEROR
Price (Item Level): 30,000 + armor cost
Body Slot: Body
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: strong (DC 22); abjuration and necromancy
Activation: -- and standard (command)
Weight: as armor
This armor is designed with intricate motives, fit for royalty, but twisted beyond belief. The golden color of the armor has been tarnished into a sinister black. The armor has chains on its waist and vambraces, although the links are broken from whatever was on the other end.

Only a blackguard may wear the armor of the dread emperor. If a blackguard wears it, the armor of the dread emperor is treated as a fearsome full plate with an effective enhancement bonus of +1 for every four class levels. The armor of the dread emperor grants a +4 bonus to the saving throw DC of any compulsion. By sacrificing one of the daily uses of the fearsome armor property, the wielder may use dominate monster as a spellcaster with a caster level equal to the wearer's character level (with a save DC equal to 14 + half the wearer's blackguard level + half the wearer's Charisma modifier; the +4 bonus from compulsions is already added).

The true power of the armor of the dread emperor manifests only when a creature is marked or compelled by the wearer. By making an arcane mark (if the wearer has access to it), etching a physical mark on a helpless or willing target (which deals 1 point of damage), or successfully compelled to act at the whim of the wearer (such as by using the dominate monster spell-like ability from the armor), one of the chains begins to shine and forms a spectral chain to the target so as long as it remains within the fiendish aura of the blackguard. Each time the wearer of the armor takes hit point damage (not ability damage), the damage is divided equally between all creatures.

The armor of the dread emperor has a synergistic effect based on the fiendish aura active by the blackguard. If the blackguard has one of the following auras active, the armor of the dread emperor grants the following benefits:
Cowardice: the blackguard shifts all damage to the "chained" creatures and takes no damage himself.
Cruelty: for every five points of damage the wearer of this armor takes (after reductions) during the end of the blackguard's current turn and the beginning of the next one, all creatures within the area take 1 point of damage from the aura.
Vengeance: once per round, the blackguard ignores the damage it would otherwise take from the split total damage from one attack (thus, while the other creatures take their share of the damage, the blackguard takes none). The damage is instead added to the retributive damage from the aura.

Lore: This armor belonged to a mysterious individual called the Dread Emperor. A master of the arcane arts that hid his appearance upon an armor gilded with gold, the Dread Emperor made his claim as the absolute ruler of the world. The armor was made specifically by him, for him; thus, it fit in such a way he could use his magic with little problem. Occasionally, he was surrounded by children that he held bound by chains flowing from his waist and vambraces, which he used to draw power from and divide the damage he could take, without care for the results. The legend of the Dread Emperor, however, was cut short; while the forces of good attempted to slay him but hesitated to harm the children, the forces of evil did not, and thus he was slain by another prospective overlord of the world. The current incarnations of the armor of the dread emperor are based on the modifications done by its new owner.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fear, shield other; creator must be a blackguard.
Cost to Create: 15,000 gp + armor cost + 1200 xp

Since blackguards lacked their unique armor suit, I arranged to give them something that already existed within D&D. Delving through the pages of the Book of Vile Darkness without attempting to lose my sanity, I remembered the Armor of the Dread Emperor, which with the Belt and the Ring of the Dread Emperor a spellcaster could essentially fuel their spellcasting by killing kids. While not as extreme in that regard, I figured it was the right armor for the aspiring blackguard who wants to become an evil overlord, and fit for a BBEG to wear.

The suit of armor reunites two of the things I like most about retooling these items: first, the modification of an existing trait by granting a new use to a special quality that might not see much use, and the synergy with the class that's meant to wear it. For the first, the fearsome special quality is cool but up to a point, and then it becomes weak; the latter makes the already devastating fiendish auras even more dangerous, particularly cruelty which further adds to the damage over time, and vengeance which ensures you deal a brutal hit.

As always: questions? Comments? Yay, awesome weapons for Pallies and Co.? OMG, you're worse than Blizzard delivering loot to power-hungry gamers!?!?!? Somewhere in the middle?

By the way: if you were figuring the cost of a Holy Avenger, it's hilariously low for what it's supposed to be. And I mean the original Holy Avenger, not the Divine Avenger. The Holy Avenger costs a whopping 120,630 gp, but when you calculate the costs, the weapon should really cost...400,000 gp.

No. Seriously. I kid you not. Wanna see?

First, count the cost of enchanting an 8th level spell at caster level 18th. That's 8x18x2000 (it's use-activated), so that's 288,000 gp. Add to that the 98,000 gp that costs making a +5 holy weapon, and that adds up to 386,000 gp. But wait! It's a cold iron longsword, so every +1 costs an additional 2000 gp, and since it's an effective +7 weapon, that costs up to 14,000 gp, for a grand total of 400,000 gp. Make the calculations on your own.

Now, if you multiply that by .30 (which is reducing the cost up to 30%), you end up with exactly 120,000 gp, with which the remaining costs of the weapon (315 for a masterwork longsword, doubled because of cold iron), that makes a grand total of 120,630 gp.

All calculations are based following that, except for the weapon properties (based off Sacred and Sacred Burst, as well as Profane), and the Sunsword which is a frickin' artifact. Just in case you figure "it's too high". You might take me because of something else, but consider that you need to multiply the entire result (sans the weapon cost) by .30 in order to get the actual result. You can help on that, if you may.

[NineThePuma]

Going to sit down and read through this (probably while on the bus to campus), but I'm curious to know if we're ever going to get the "fifth" Divine Champion you mentioned a while back?

The Incarnum one? Or did you post it already, and I forgot, which is entirely possible. :smallredface:

[Cieyrin]

Going to sit down and read through this (probably while on the bus to campus), but I'm curious to know if we're ever going to get the "fifth" Divine Champion you mentioned a while back?

The Incarnum one? Or did you post it already, and I forgot, which is entirely possible. :smallredface:

It's not shown up yet, at least as far as I'm aware. Neither it or the Divine Mind redux have been posted.

Read through the Avengers. I likes what I see, especially with the Sunblade having tiers of power that still makes it useful for nonpaladins but more so with paladins. I also must say I like the Sunsword, makes me think much of how the Sommerswerd should be in D&D, since the Kai Lords are basically Ranger Paladins. Good stuff! :smallbiggrin:

[T.G. Oskar]

Posted the Armor Suits of Virtue for all of you guys to see. That only leaves...the addendum of Paladin-lite, but I'm thinking of making that addendum a separate post. It would be similar to what Cipher's proposal of making a "Paladin-lite" and then making what he wanted to do (Knight Eternal), while cross-linking both in order to cater to both sides (those who want a minor fix, those who want a more comprehensive fix).

There's also the need to add the Knight of the Middle Circle, from the Defenders of the Faith 3.0 splat, which I somehow forgot to add. That should complete a great deal of the Project Heretica material.

That said, I was also thinking whether I should export this to, say...I dunno, BG? I'm honestly intimidated by the discussions there, so I'd feel a bit bad if my 'brewing skills were not up to task.


Going to sit down and read through this (probably while on the bus to campus), but I'm curious to know if we're ever going to get the "fifth" Divine Champion you mentioned a while back?

The Incarnum one? Or did you post it already, and I forgot, which is entirely possible. :smallredface:


It's not shown up yet, at least as far as I'm aware. Neither it or the Divine Mind redux have been posted.

Oh, certainly not. I'm not sure when I'll post them, but the Zealot and the Kshatrya are to be posted on separate threads.


Read through the Avengers. I likes what I see, especially with the Sunblade having tiers of power that still makes it useful for nonpaladins but more so with paladins. I also must say I like the Sunsword, makes me think much of how the Sommerswerd should be in D&D, since the Kai Lords are basically Ranger Paladins. Good stuff! :smallbiggrin:

Heh heh.

I definitely need to read a bit more about that weapon, though I'd love to see 3.5 interpretations of the Swords of Power. It all depends on how you make their stories really come alive, considering that you need to balance the roleplay aspect (the rich story behind its creation) with the mechanical aspect (that it has to remain relevant throughout the course of the character's career).

[dawnsolara]

That said, I was also thinking whether I should export this to, say...I dunno, BG? I'm honestly intimidated by the discussions there, so I'd feel a bit bad if my 'brewing skills were not up to task.

BG is now minmaxboards (minmaxboards . com / index . php but remove the spaces) because their boards were inundated by spammers, I believe. But please post your stuff over there - they're friendly and fun, and would have valuable input on your project, too. More eyes are always good for a project like this. Don't be intimidated!

[Cieyrin]

Having read the Armor Suits (I remember that Dragon article :smallwink:), I've noticed that Anarchs are kinda neglected, as the weapons and armor they can use are the ones all the other Divine Champions get. Maybe I'm just a fan of ye olde Paladins of Freedom and Majesty's Warriors of Discord, the opposites to the Paladins, but we need some divine scythe wielder gear, stat! :smallbiggrin:

[Elfstone]

I have been waiting soooo long for the divine items! Although for the armor I think you had some bad copy pasta because the price has weapon price instead of armor price added to it.(only for the Drachenguard). I like the Pseudo latin names for some of the items. All of them seem to work fine and complement the classes that use them nicely. Can't wait for the fifth class.

[NineThePuma]

Anarchs get pwned and don't get much support, but you knew that already.

[moghue]

I will tell you now, this is by far the best and most well thought out retooling of any core class I have seen yet and I have been watching for months. I would like to give credit where credit is due.

[T.G. Oskar]

Having read the Armor Suits (I remember that Dragon article :smallwink:), I've noticed that Anarchs are kinda neglected, as the weapons and armor they can use are the ones all the other Divine Champions get. Maybe I'm just a fan of ye olde Paladins of Freedom and Majesty's Warriors of Discord, the opposites to the Paladins, but we need some divine scythe wielder gear, stat! :smallbiggrin:


Anarchs get pwned and don't get much support, but you knew that already.

Yes, I am well aware that Anarchs lack support, but you may figure it's because I seem to be a bit off on what they could provide. I don't want to fall into the idea of randomness, but I want something that's considerably and iconically chaotic. The only ideas I have on my mind relate to weapons that improve buffing, or related to fortune (but that lies on the path of randomness), though I might have to raid the splats for purposes of entropy. Slaadskin armor and maybe a sword that contains the power of all elements could be pretty interesting, but I need to refine a bit more the ideas in order to make something worthwhile for potential Anarch builds. I only find "leader of the rebellion" and "wandering warrior" as the typical Anarch archetypes, aside from the archetypes proper to Divine Champions, which sorta limits me compared to Paladins (undead hunters, demon hunters, noble knights, holy warriors and bodyguards), Blackguards (The Dragon or the Big Bad, unholy warrior, leader of the undead, black knight and scheming noble, etc) and Justiciars (bounty hunter, warrior of law, judge-jury-&-executioner), from which I drew inspiration to make the weapons.

Rest assured: if I develop something for Anarchs, it'll have its own post, because the other two posts are full. How's that for a compromise?

[NineThePuma]

Well, in thinking, yeah, it's hard to imagine something other than the obvious "Rebel" and "Wandering Warrior" because part of the problem that arises is a tendency to focus more on the moral implications of the chaotic alignment. An Anarch who overthrows governments because it happens to be a government and an Anarch who frees slaves because no one should have their lives dictated for them are both possibilities. I could see Anarchs playing well with Bez-Kismet (and, in fact, contemplated playing a Gestalt Anarch/Bez-Kismet who was almost entirely in a Rage Against Fate at one point) so maybe looking more into "Casting off Fate" than anything else?

[absolmorph]

What about manipulating the chaos to better suit their purposes? Rolling twice on things could be a nice way to give Anarchs some shiny items to call their own.

[Cieyrin]

So we have Rebel Anarchs and Wanderer Anarchs. What about a War Mongerer, one who seeks to create conflict not for a goal but to generate chaos? (I've been watching Babylon 5 lately, makes me think of the Shadows :smallredface:) Or one who fights explicitly for Freedom, not against a specific government but for everything or is that still a Rebel?

[T.G. Oskar]

So we have Rebel Anarchs and Wanderer Anarchs. What about a War Mongerer, one who seeks to create conflict not for a goal but to generate chaos? (I've been watching Babylon 5 lately, makes me think of the Shadows :smallredface:) Or one who fights explicitly for Freedom, not against a specific government but for everything or is that still a Rebel?

*facepalm*

You know, you mention the "War Monger", and I was reminded of this guy (http://srwog.velv.net/og_char/vindel.html), whose belief was that only a world of constant war would allow humanity to survive. That definitely is the mark of an evil Anarch, since a world of constant war is a world of chaos and destruction. In fact, his theme song is called CHAOS, for goodness sakes!!

So, I guess we can add "War Monger" to the list of Anarch archetypes...

EDIT: Oh, I decided to provide you guys with a small gift: a homebrewed spell for clerics and paladins, but region-locked.

The paladin will see some action on the next mission, since I convinced my players to detour using a side mission. Unlike the traditional missions with the half-giant Fighter and the kender Bard (which are now a Fighter/Warblade/Sword Saint and Bard/Druid/Rogue/Fochlucan Lyrist respectively), this one will truly put the retool to the test.

My players will play Tier 1 classes. Namely, a warforged Artificer and a Dreamsight shifter Druid. There will also be an Archivist/Wizard which is using the retooled version of the Mystic Theurge, and already has 3rd level casting on both sides while being 7th level (still one spell level behind, but not for too much), so that'll be the sanity spot. Oh, and a changeling Factotum with levels in Binder who may or may not be inscrutably evil...or an old friend of the Mystic Theurge. Ooooh, the chances...!!!

In any case, this spell was designed in-game for the Paladin, who wished to have some extra offensive power. It is based off the Ice Axe spell from Spell Compendium, and it can be used by regular Paladins...so as long as they live in Eberron and follow the Silver Flame:

ARCHIBALD'S AXE OF THE SILVER FLAME
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Cleric 3, Paladin 3 (Silver Flame)
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Battleaxe-shaped weapon of silver flames
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

After casting the spell and motioning to light in flames, the torch fully burns, but is not consumed, by flames of silver. The flames form into the shape of an axe, with its head forming the holy symbol of the Silver Flame.

This spell behaves exactly like the ice axe spell (see Spell Compendium page 118) but with the following changes.

The axe deals 2d12 points of damage +1 point per two caster levels (maximum of +10) with a successful hit; half the damage is fire damage and the other half results directly from the divine power of the Silver Flame, thus ignoring resistance to fire.

Lore: This spell was constructed in the 5th of Nym of the year 999 YK by Archibald Brittlebeard, an adventurer hunting for ancient magic scrolls of the Ages of the Giants and the Dragons, by request of sir Adelbert d'Deneith, paladin of the Silver Flame and scion of House Deneith. The spell was designed to mimic the favored weapon of the paladin, a battle axe. This spell was sent, as an offering, to the authorities of the Silver Flame to wield as a weapon against the enemies of the church.

Special: Only clerics, paladins and archivists (see Heroes of Horror) that have the Silver Flame (or any of its manifestations) as a deity may use this spell.

Material Component: 25 gp worth of silverburn powder (see Faiths of Eberron page 153 for more details) and a torch, which consumes at the end of the spell's duration.

The spell was a need for paladins to have a proper spell that covered three things: first, that Paladins need some solid offensive; second, to cover 3rd level spells which are usually crappy; and third, to cover for the apparent inclination of paladins to swords (i.e: original Holy Avenger). Ice Axe is a pretty nifty spell, which while ignoring Strength modifier to damage is otherwise treated as a magic weapon that deals magic damage (and all of the same type), but most specifically providing melee touch attacks with a weapon. Strength may be an issue, but not necessarily Power Attack (it IS a battle-axe shaped weapon, after all, and battleaxes are one-handed weapons...), or Smite, or other bonuses to damage. Thus, while Clerics will undoubtedly have it, Paladins can definitely make proper use out of it, even the core, vanilla version of it.

Game-wise, Archibald (the Mystic Theurge I was speaking you about) crafted the spell for Adelbert (my DMPC paladin whom has served as the testbed for the retool itself) as a personal petition, as a way to express his faith but feeling a bit down that he has no particular legacy (you see, the half-giant Fighter made a few new alchemical items, and the Bard sold the rights to sell one of the Kender weapons from Dragonlance, and they're reaping the spoils...), and because he needed that extra "punch" while making sure that he could deal a serious amount of damage.

The nifty trait is that I simply made a slight alteration by treating the spell as if it were Flame Strike damage. This is because, being the Silver Flame, limiting the spell only to fire damage would have made many of the evil outsiders they face unable to take full damage. 2d12 is nothing to sneeze about, especially as full attack damage (which means a Paladin could land reliably well four hits, because of the melee touch nature of the spell, dealing somewhere around 8d12+40 at 20th level, or 8d12+20 if using core vanilla version), and even more if Haste comes in play.

[Cieyrin]

Nice spell, there. I can just imagine throwing the silverburn powder into the torch for it to suddenly flame up and consume the torch to generate the axe. Neat imagery to boot.

[T.G. Oskar]

I seem to always find new stuff to add.

Per request, there's at least two new Avengers, both of which can be used by Anarchs, and at least ONE that's Anarch-exclusive. I might place an Anarch-exclusive Armor Suit of Virtue as well, but whenever I get the inspiration.

EXECUTIONER
Price (Item Level): 103,200 gp + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (held)
Caster Level: 18th
Aura: strong (DC 24); necromancy and transmutation
Activation: -- and swift (command)
Weight: as weapon
The weapon is crude and brutal looking, its blade looking impossibly sharp and stained with fresh blood. When swung, the blade moves through the air with unusual ease, as if it cut air itself.
An executioner may only be wielded by a blackguard or an evil-aligned anarch. When a character of that class wields it, it is treated as a keen vicious maiming longsword with an effective enhancement bonus of 1 for every four class levels (bludgeoning weapons gain the impact property instead).

By spending an encounter use of smite good or entropic strike as a swift action, the next attack done with the executioner has its critical threat range and critical multiplier increased by 1. The increase to the critical threat range applies after the increase by means of the keen weapon property and stacks with it. The increase to the critical multiplier affects the extra damage from the maiming weapon property as well. If the roll results a natural 20, the weapon is treated as if it had the vorpal property. If the attack misses, the smite good or entropic strike use is not wasted (as if using the smite, except the wielder does not gain any other benefit from the ability such as the bonus to attack rolls, extra damage, or imposed effects).

If the blackguard or the anarch has a feat, magic item or class feature that grants a bonus to the critical threat confirmation roll, this bonus is also added to the damage on a successful critical hit, but after the calculations are made.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, circle of death, keen edge, enervation; creator must be a chaotic evil outsider that follows a deity with the Death or Destruction domains.
Cost to Create: 51600 gp + weapon cost + 4128 xp

This weapon, simply put, is a bargain for what it provides. For starters, it's a weapon with the keen (or impact), maiming and vicious properties: just keen and maiming with the right weapon can be a deadly combination. With the scaling enhancement bonus added, you can have a weapon that deals a pretty decent amount of damage quite reliably.

However, the true power of this weapon happens when you sacrifice smite good or entropic strike. As you can see, the power of this smiting ability directly enhances the weapon but does not look for alignment, so it can be used on anybody. On a weapon such as a greatsword, this means you get a 16-20 critical threat (19-20 base, 17-20 with keen, plus one to the critical threat range after keen so that's 16-20) and a x3 on the multiplier, with the maiming property dealing an extra 2d6 points of damage on top. While keen and maiming doesn't stack with critical threat auto-confirming abilities, you have a pretty good chance to land a hit that effectively slays the enemy in one blow. If you happen to roll a natural 20, then the weapon instantly slays the opponent.

The last ability (extra damage with stuff like Power Critical) is minor by comparison, given that it doesn't stack with the critical threat multiplier, but it makes these choices slightly more useful than they usually are (which is next to none). All in all, the weapon is pretty simple in its construction, meant to deliver pretty solid hits with nearly each blow, and more if you aim for extra success on critical hits.

DISCORDANCE
Price (Item Level): 102,000 gp + weapon cost
Body Slot: -- (held)
Caster Level: 20th
Aura: strong (DC 25th); divination, evocation and transmutation
Activation: -- and immediate (command)
Weight: as weapon
The sword seems to be done poorly, but only at a glance; it is oddly balanced, but it holds warps and rare spots of all the colors of the rainbow upon it. The blade of the weapon seems to shift materials at random, and gems incrusted on both its guard and pommel shift colors, but reflect light as if they were clear, forming rainbows.
Discordance can only be used by an anarch. In the hands of one, Discordance acts as an anarchic metalline morphing longsword of prismatic burst with an effective enhancement bonus of 1 for every four class levels. The morphing property of the weapon applies as an immediate action (instead of standard) as part of attacking a creature. An anarch wielding this weapon may use it as its holy symbol for purposes of her disable construct ability and divine focus.

Whenever an anarch rolls a natural 5 on a damage roll, reroll the result and add 5 points of damage. If the 5 appears on a single die, reroll only the die. The effect is cumulative.

Discordance automatically detects any lawful creature within a 60 ft. radius as a standard action, which causes the weapon to shine with all the colors of the rainbow. If an anarch faces a lawful creature, the weapon deals an extra 2 points of fire damage to the creature (and other hostile lawful creatures within 60 ft.) and shines with a red color. The effect of the weapon changes in subsequent rounds:
2nd round: the weapon’s shine turns orange and the weapon deals 4 extra points of acid damage instead of the fire damage
3rd round: the weapon’s shine turns yellow and the weapon deals an extra 8 points of electricity damage instead of the acid damage
4th round: the weapon’s shine turns green and the weapon deals 1 point of Constitution damage instead of the acid damage. The ability damage is negated if the creature is immune to poison
5th round: the weapon’s shine turns blue and the weapon imposes a -4 penalty to Dexterity (minimum 1) instead of the Constitution damage. The penalty to Dexterity is negated if the creature is immune to petrifaction.
6th round: the weapon’s shine turns indigo and the weapon causes the confusion effect for 1d5 rounds instead of the penalty to Dexterity.
7th round: the weapon’s shine turns violet and the weapon displaces part of the creature’s body, dealing an extra 2d6 points of damage instead of the confusion effect.
8th round: the weapon shines with all the colors of the rainbow. Roll 1d8 and apply the result as if the weapon was on the round indicated by the result (for example, a result of 4 would cause the Constitution damage). A roll of 8 allows the wielder of the weapon to roll twice (rerolling any further results of 8) or choose which effect to apply.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, chaos hammer, detect law, fabricate, lucky streak (CSc 100), prismatic spray; creator must be a chaotic outsider that follows a deity with the Chaos and Luck domain, or that has access to the Limbo domain (SC 284)
Cost to Create: 51,000 gp + weapon cost + 4080 xp

And here it is, the Anarch-exclusive weapon, which has some reliance on luck but otherwise it's pretty random. Discordance only loosely bases on Discordianism, except if violent instead of comedic.

Being a morphic and metalline weapon, this is one of the few weapons who can bypass just about every single damage reduction sans alignments and DR X/-. With the ability to turn into a bludgeoning, piercing or slashing weapon at the whim of the wielder, Discordance won't ever be the same weapon. The ability to unleash an attack as powerful as Prismatic Spray on a critical hit means you can attempt to crit-fish whenever necessary for a strong effect.

The ability to reroll the results that end in 5 is a reference to the Law of Fives, where you'll always see a five anywhere. Here, the effect becomes a bit more destructive because if for some reason you roll a 5 on average, you'll rack up the damage real fast. This makes the falchion, the guisarme, the ranseur and the scythe particularly brutal options, since you might roll a 5 more often than usual, so the damage will probably skyrocket. Likewise, any weapon with more than one dice over 6 will have a strong chance of rerolling the damage, thus furthering the damage you deal. While I didn't want to add the element of randomness as a key aspect of the weapon, I definitely had to add this reference, because of it's inherent hilarity.

However, the key aspect of Discordance is that it's an anti-order weapon. It is a weapon of pure Chaos; thus, against lawful creatures, the weapon unleashes it's true power, which is basically...a washed-down Prismatic Spray effect. As you can see, it takes 8 rounds to unleash its full power, so you might not see the weapon's full power in effect, but the first few effects aren't so bad (fire, electricity or acid damage which doubles the earlier damage dealt and, since it's static damage, it should stack with any multiplier), and if things get rough Con damage with each hit (essentially a pseudo-Wounding weapon) should do the trick. After 8 rounds, the randomness effect kicks in, and the chance for a roll of 8 for double the fun suddenly makes the weapon a bit more dangerous (particularly if you roll 4 and 7 constantly, as you'll have a weapon that deals 2d6 HP + 1 Con points of damage with each hit). It fits really well with the Prismatic Burst special quality, and makes the weapon quite a bit more reliable than usual. I believe that, even with the randomness factor kicking in, Discordance is a relatively potent weapon for Anarchs.

The one thing I had to break my head is on how to make it costlier. You see, compared to weapons such as Hallowed Purifier, Wraithblade or the Sun Blade, Discordance is pretty cheap for its cost, even if it's the weapon with the highest caster level amongst the Avengers. Prismatic Burst is really a bargain at 30k gp, particularly since it doesn't add to your base enhancement bonus and thus it can be added to a +10 weapon pre-epic.

[Cieyrin]

Nice weapons, though Discordance's confusion effect calls for a d5, causing me confusion. :smalltongue: I'm assuming you meant d6, though with the Rule of 5 in effect, I'm not sure.

[T.G. Oskar]

Nice weapons, though Discordance's confusion effect calls for a d5, causing me confusion. :smalltongue: I'm assuming you meant d6, though with the Rule of 5 in effect, I'm not sure.

It's another reference to the Rule of 5. Who says you have to limit yourself to the typical interpretations of the dice when you're playing an Anarch anyways? That makes it doubly interesting, particularly since it can last for a reasonable amount of rounds (3 rounds on average, up to 5 rounds).

[absolmorph]

What happens on the 9th round?

[Cieyrin]

What happens on the 9th round?

I think once it hits round 8 and beyond, it randomizes, as it's fully powered.

[T.G. Oskar]

I think once it hits round 8 and beyond, it randomizes, as it's fully powered.

Exactly as mentioned. Discordance really doesn't power up, but rather has an element of compiling all parts of a low-power prismatic X effect, until at the 8th round you essentially have a random effect with each swing. It doesn't cycle, however, starting from the beginning, so it remains "fully powered" or fully "compiled" from 9th round and thereafter.

--

In any case, I mentioned last time that my campaign would mark the reappearance of the Project Heretica Paladin, and this time, my players were changing their characters for a short side story with new characters.

While the "main group" (technically the Paladin is part of the main group, but he was "settling stuff" because I wanted to introduce a DMPC which is another playtest) has the Bard becoming a "Sylvan" Lyrist (a Fochlucan Lyrist, but Fochlucan doesn't exist in Eberron) and facing a one-minute battle against beholderkin, the Paladin got a side mission involving some adamantine mines. This is a great chance for my players to get adamantine items (and an excuse for my DMPC to have adamantine plate armor, mind you), and test some new characters.

The Bard player settled for a blaster-focused Shifter Druid, who's going for the "bear with a bear companion riding a bear" theme, but with Arcs of Lightning and Flame Strikes ahoy. Meanwhile, the Fighter player settled for an Artificer, since he's thinking about leaving that character as the guild's main craftsman (they have an official adventurer's guild now, by the way). This Warforged Artificer has an advanced Iron Defender as a pet, since the Fighter player got interested in Artificers given how they're presented in DDO. I settled for the Paladin, another NPC (a Dwarven Archivist/Wizard/Retooled Mystic Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133933)), and a little surprise for them: much like in the other party, a Changeling Factotum with levels in Binder and Rogue. Thing is, the players (and the Pally's party, by the way) figured there's an imposter upon them, and the Paladin is openly distrusting their Changeling party member, but so as long as the "impostor" (or the real deal, that's the beauty of it) doesn't backstab the party or something like that, he's fine with it. Because of the relaxed restrictions of the code, the Paladin can collaborate with someone who may or may not be quite evil, although he might just be collaborating with the old friend of the Theurge and the real deal. The impostor will be decided randomly, in order to keep the suspense even on my side.
The day was spent with only two battles, while they tested their new characters. The first battle was against a pair of Totem Giants, giants who use incarnum and fly into rages, as they were flanking the Druid and his bear companion (whom, because of being a reincarnated ancestor, has the trait of a single Incarnum feat instead of the usual feats). The Druid, a member of the Greensingers, started by a very unusual casting of Charm Monster, which essentially simplified the battle somewhat by disabling one of the giants (though the newcoming party of the Paladin, the Artificer, the Factotum and the Theurge were fair play, as they met the Druid at that moment). The Druid's animal companion did most of the work, but the Paladin had a pretty awesome moment as he simply walked through the battlefield to reach the Druid (who was about to die from the non-charmed Giant) and ignored both attacks of opportunity (through a combination of decent AC and Displacement), before striking at the enemy with a smite (which, because of a change to Improved Smite, can deal normal smite damage to neutral creatures). The giant wasn't stunned, but between the Paladin and the bear, one of the giants was essentially busted. Because of the defeat, the battle was finished, although some deals had to be dealt. This was the second moment of awesome for the Paladin: without his trusty axe and his shield, and using the Artificer as a translator, he convinced the giant that killing him in vengeance would be akin to imitating what he himself had done, thus preventing an untimely death. Of course, that was a bit of an ego trip, but the players were very amused (and impressed) by the roleplaying, making that a memorable moment. We joked that, with the Fighter on a different mission, the Paladin could finally show what he's made of.

The second battle was against four Spectres (most generally below the party's range), which was a pretty easy battle despite the lack of the usual heavy hitter. On this battle, the Druid was the MVP of the match, even though his animal companion was out of the battle (because of the spectres' ability to panic any animal), because of his use of Lightning Arc. The group fought cohesively, with the Paladin and the Artificer dealing heavy hits to the enemy (the Pally through Awesome Smite, the Artificer by enchanting his repeating crossbow with Ghost Touch), while the Theurge essentially flunking his spell (a natural 1 with a Spiritual Weapon spell, which I ruled that dissolved as swiftly as it was made) and the Factotum couldn't really collaborate as she would have wanted to, though she landed a few hits.

It was a short day as we took a bit of time doing some preparations, but here's the outcome of the day:
Sometimes, when there are few players and they've had their own moments to shine, a DMPC should shine as well. It's not an excuse to overwhelm, but a DMPC with moments where it can shine without overwhelming the players make for a memorable experience. Unlike before, he's getting a bit proactive, which is good as he's the only melee combatant aside from the Druid's animal companion.
One thing to notice is that the Paladin does pretty well on dungeons, but not so spectacularly on random encounters. While on a dungeon, the Paladin can buff himself pretty well, so he can do slightly more than usual, but whenever taken by surprise, the Paladin still relies on smiting and having a good defense, which makes Battle Blessing quite useful in these situations. Though, to his point, his choices in battle have changed slightly, what with the choice of smiting, Deafening Clang, Divine Sacrifice and the changes to feats.
Another thing to point is how the dynamic changes wildly over the lack of excessive damage. The battle against the Totem Giants, which was of the same CR as the Paladin and slightly over the other characters, took mostly two turns, and while slightly difficult, it was not overwhelming. However, it was surprising to see the Druid (and his animal companion) nearing Death's door (because of the circumstances), but the others were barely harmed.


I'm still unsure when I'll have the next session, but the next session will involve a small dungeon with encounters rounding CR of 6 to 10, with a chance of CR 11 or 12 if necessary. I'll expect to grind them with lots of battles while they traverse the dungeon to recollect better data.

In any case, I should finish the Anarch's armor suit, but there's only one thing to essentially "close" this thread, and that's the material that allows bits and pieces of Project Heretica to those who don't want a full rewrite to the Paladin, but only a fix. I intend to make it a separate thread, with links between the two sides, so that people who are interested only in the Pally "patch" don't have to drudge over the full rewrite, though my interest is to make this my official "view" of the Paladin. It's pretty close to what I did with the retoolings of the Monk, where the first attempt exists as a "Monk lite" while the other is an extensive retooling with which I'm a bit more comfortable. Do you consider this the best way to handle it, or would you be interested in clumping this appendix to this thread instead?

[T.G. Oskar]

After a good month without playing (well, more like a month and a week or so), time for a week of double play!

So, my players (testing the Artificer and the Druid) entered the abandoned mine, which means a dungeon instance, which draws the kind of data I want for playtesting, as it involves various encounters in a single day. So far, we've had two combat encounters and one non-combat encounter, but since the day hasn't officially finished (and I want at least two more encounters during the same day before I let them rest), this turns into an excellent opportunity.

The first battle was against a Plague Spewer, essentially a HUGE undead that spews rat swarms and hits with plague (MMIII). Being the paladin the frontman, and with a good 100+ HP, it was an excellent way to test the entire group. The Artificer was already prepared with an Undead Bane repeating heavy crossbow with a Shocking enhancement, so he could deal quite a bit of damage, and the Druid had turned into a brown bear alongside his brown bear, which meant that the Paladin would have been overshadowed.

Quite the contrary, the Paladin was the hero of that particular fight. If I mention that on one round he did almost half the amount of the undead's HP worth of damage, would you believe it? Well, he pulled that off, and particularly because of smiting. Surprisingly, although he survived being hit by the rat swarm, he got hit and actually suffered disease from the plague spewer's attack (remember, the Paladin no longer has auto-immunities). Had it not been by the opportune application of the Artificer's Spell Storing Item infusion duplicating Remove Disease, he would have had to wait until next day and potentially suffer ability damage (damn low rolls, despite his respectable +12 Fort!!). All in all, the Paladin and the Artificer did most of the damage, and the Paladin soaked a bit of the damage taken by the Artificer's iron defender homunculus.

The second battle was against a Mimic (advanced to 11 HD) and a Phasm, which had a special ability to assume a single Huge form (conveniently, being on a burial ground for Giants, it assumed the form of a Cloud Giant). In this case, the Druid used the Arc Lightning spell to deal most of the damage, while the Artificer landed a lucky crit on the Mimic. In this case, the Paladin relied on his tried-and-true strategy of providing his excellent defensive aura and soaking most of the damage, so no one really suffered a lot of damage anyways. He used Bull's Strength and a javelin, though, so he contributed to the damage. Oddly enough, even though all enemies did melee attacks, the retributive damage from Divine Punishment applied only once.

So, what can be drawn from this?
10th level is very nice in terms of damage potential, especially when sources of damage overflow are absent. Battles didn't last more than 3 rounds at most, and even then the Paladin did the singlemost amount of damage in the day, reaching nearly 50 points in a single non-crit blow, without using Power Attack at all.
While his other contributions were pretty small (he aced a Diplomacy check to convince some "miners" to assist him on exploring the mine, he barely lost resources. He only wasted a single spell, while the Druid has almost all of his 2nd and 3rd level spells out, the Artificer used a good deal of 1st and 3rd level slots, and the Mystic Theurge has only used about three spells overall but hasn't done that much.
Positioning can be a trouble, particularly if you go last. Movement speed, likewise. Particularly if, because of the circumstances, you're left at the back of the battle (surprise back attack, yay!!) Otherwise, the Paladin could have contributed a bit more with the second battle, since he could only move 20 ft. while the enemies were over 60 ft. away.

Since the Holy Week is nearby, that means there will be another game next week (over here, Holy Week is given free, or at least between Thursday to Sunday, much like Spring Break), so there's a few more chances of rectifying, but this is good enough as the party overall hasn't wasted more than 50% of its resources just yet, so no need to rest.

Also, having a new computer (though a particularly small-screened one), that means I can retake the work I was stripped from for about two whole weeks, which combined with the inability to do much with the old laptop, means I should go ahead with many of the things I promised. Not sure what else to post, though, so if you have any ideas on what I should post this month...

[T.G. Oskar]

Finally, after some time, it's Summer! Which means we'll be playing possibly twice or three times per week!

This time, the party (currently with the Paladin, a Druid with a bear animal companion, an Artificer with an Iron Defender homunculus, and a Cleric/Dragonfire Adept/Dragonfire Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8082741&postcount=2) whom I'm playtesting as well), now formed into a guild (with my player's primary characters, the Fighter/Warblade/Kensai retool [Sword Saint], the Bard/Rogue/Druid/Sylvan [Fochlucan] Lyrist and a few NPCs which are currently on a "site defense" mission) have decided to clear an abandoned fort chock-full of Warforged devoted to the Lord of Blades. To do so, the Paladin was given a small set of followers (10 1st level Fighters) to lead, as part of a garrison to defend the fort once reclaimed.

The reason I needed to mention this was because this was the first time the Devotion aura really made a change. A shocking use of Unholy Blight striking 13 creatures and potentially one-shotting most NPCs was no worse than two downs. Definitely, absorbing 48 hit points worth of damage from all targets (damage from the other 12 targets, as he passed the Will save to halve damage, which was negated by means of Mettle) definitely saved the 1st level soldiers from an untimely death (from a 8th level Unholy Blight, by the way, used through a wand by a 5th level Cleric). Just to mention: all (save 1 soldier, which rolled high enough and was in the area of Magic Circle against Evil) of the 1st level Fighters, as well as some of the 1st level Scouts following the party, failed the Will save, and all of them took 10 points of damage (instead of 14), which made the Fighters survive with 1 hit point. Considering that they had a pretty high AC, and that aside from the Cleric and a 5th level Warblade the rest were pretty weak (1st-3rd level Warriors and 3rd level Fighters), so they had enough AC to auto-succeed, due to the huge bonus from Devotion.

Next session will have a boss battle against four 7th level Warforged, comprised mostly of strong classes (Warblade, Artificer, a Warforged Scout Rogue, plus the retooled Warmage and the enemy Artificer's Iron Defender), but with some pre-buffing before. I expect this to be an easy battle (4 vs. 5, or rather 5 vs. 7), but it should be pretty fun considering the small combat area.

[T.G. Oskar]

Alright, now for some REAL news (and not updates about my playtesting, which nobody really seems to care apparently)...

I've posted a version of the Project Heretica Paladin on the good Dungeons & Dragons wiki (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Paladin,_Project_Heretica_(3.5e_Class)) (not the other one, which I refuse to post at), which has none of the comments and has links to all necessary information. If you wish to help on clarity editing (such as posting some links) and whatnot, please inform it within the discussion section. The version presented there is the most recent one, and any changes I personally do will appear both here and on the link.

I'll see when I post the rest of the material around, as well as the whole bulk of the retools.

[T.G. Oskar]

After some discussion regarding the Paladin in its wiki format, I've been suggested a series of boosts to the class. I'd like to gather ideas here (as well as there, and there's good ideas indeed) for what I should do, as it'll involve some changes both there and here (and thus, to all of the PBAJ).

Here's the ideas exposed:
Reworking Resounding Smite from scratch. The suggested ideas are making it AoE right from the beginning (which is nice), adding deafening (which is good), and sundering equipment (heck no!!). ideas on how this can scale through all three tiers?
Damage Reduction from Standing Before Adversity applies since 4th level, and scales (DR 5 at 4th, DR 10 at 9th, DR 15 at 14th), and turn it into untyped. I feel half-tempted to make it DR = level +1. This makes 14th level lack an appropriate boost, as DR was tbe feature at that level. What should replace 14th level?
Apparently, the damage dealt by Divine Punishment is too little, and doesn't make people start hitting the Paladin and stop hitting its allies. Suggestions were made to impose a penalty on attack rolls and/or increase the damage dealt. I agree partly with this, as while damage is sound enough, it's not what makes people hit the Paladin (it's the Aura of Devotion's bonus to AC that does, usually). There was also a suggestion to make DP apply earlier (actually, at 1st level...), which I'm reticent at.
Return Divine Grace to 2nd level. I'm ambivalent to it, because it makes 2nd level WAY too attractive and loaded (basically, you get Charisma to damage AND saves at 2nd level), and makes 11th level lack something. I've agreed to lower it a few levels (namely 7th or 8th, as Lay on Hands and Mettle are pretty lonely), though. Thus; what ability should the Paladin have at 11th level, given that Divine Grace at 11th level is no longer viable?
Boost Aura of Retribution's damage. I might return it to "damage equal to damage dealt or 5 times your Constitution modifier", with the shield bonus adding to damage (as per "5 + enchantment bonus x Con").

There's also some changes that will appear here soon:
Turn Undead is now as potent as that of a Cleric, but the Paladin has less uses per day (up to their Charisma modifier). This makes it useful at all levels (alongside the spells that boost it), and it'll have enough uses thanks to Charisma being an important stat for the Paladin.
Boost their spell save DC. The proposal thus far is 10 + half the paladin's level + the paladin's Charisma modifier (same as Smites). Agree, disagree?
The multiclass restriction is gone.

So: questions? Comments?

[dawnsolara]

Return Divine Grace to 2nd level. I'm ambivalent to it, because it makes 2nd level WAY too attractive and loaded (basically, you get Charisma to damage AND saves at 2nd level), and makes 11th level lack something. I've agreed to lower it a few levels (namely 7th or 8th, as Lay on Hands and Mettle are pretty lonely), though. Thus; what ability should the Paladin have at 11th level, given that Divine Grace at 11th level is no longer viable?

You could give them "Improved Mettle" at level 11, just like there's an improved evasion.

[THEChanger]

You could give them "Improved Mettle" at level 11, just like there's an improved evasion.

The Paladin already gets Improved Mettle at Level 13.

[dawnsolara]

The Paladin already gets Improved Mettle at Level 13.

Yeah . . . maybe I shouldn't make suggestions for classes while tired.

[Cieyrin]

Minor nitpick before I go on: Blinding Smite's damage increase against light sensitives doesn't mesh with the current standard of 5+ Pally level, as it currently replaces that damage, so you actually do less at lower levels (2 vs. 6 at 1st and only bypassing once you get past 5th, where they meet up and your Improved version may kick in).

Now, for the suggested changes
- Re: Resounding Smite: I kinda like it as-is but if others aren't, I suppose I support the first 2 tiers, though expanding the holy explosion to full smite damage with the same save may be in order for tier 2/3. Tacking on deafness and sicken would as well, methinks.
- Re: Damage Reduction: I'd scale directly with level instead of in steps. For 14th level, I'd suggest having a floating spell slot for on the fly casting. Call it Divine Inspiration, for sometimes, you really need it. By floating, I mean able to choose from the entire list, not just the spells known currently be a specific paladin. Call it 1/day or Cha/day, up to 1/encounter, something like that.
- Re: Divine Punishment: It doesn't need moving. I'd apply 5+1/2 Pally level + Str mod, like with smites, for alleviating the issue.
- Re: Divine Grace: If it really needs moving, 8th is a good spot, as 7th opens up 2nd level Pally spells, an important milestone. For 11th, the ability to step into harm's way for an ally, enhanced by using a shield, wouldn't be bad.
- Re: Aura of Retribution: 5 is definitely the magic number and I agree.

As for turning and spells, I think they're good as-is. As said, paladins are the militant arm of their faith, their ability to turn being not as great as a cleric of equal level only makes sense, since they're also trained in applying strength of arm alongside strength of faith, so having a balance between the two works best in my thoughts. As for the save DCs, I don't think Pallys really need it, as the spell selection is aimed more at buffing and less against blasting, which the save DCs would be needed for.

[T.G. Oskar]

Minor nitpick before I go on: Blinding Smite's damage increase against light sensitives doesn't mesh with the current standard of 5+ Pally level, as it currently replaces that damage, so you actually do less at lower levels (2 vs. 6 at 1st and only bypassing once you get past 5th, where they meet up and your Improved version may kick in).

Can't believe I didn't notice up until now. Will change (on both places) now.


Now, for the suggested changes
- Re: Resounding Smite: I kinda like it as-is but if others aren't, I suppose I support the first 2 tiers, though expanding the holy explosion to full smite damage with the same save may be in order for tier 2/3. Tacking on deafness and sicken would as well, methinks.
- Re: Damage Reduction: I'd scale directly with level instead of in steps. For 14th level, I'd suggest having a floating spell slot for on the fly casting. Call it Divine Inspiration, for sometimes, you really need it. By floating, I mean able to choose from the entire list, not just the spells known currently be a specific paladin. Call it 1/day or Cha/day, up to 1/encounter, something like that.
- Re: Divine Punishment: It doesn't need moving. I'd apply 5+1/2 Pally level + Str mod, like with smites, for alleviating the issue.
- Re: Divine Grace: If it really needs moving, 8th is a good spot, as 7th opens up 2nd level Pally spells, an important milestone. For 11th, the ability to step into harm's way for an ally, enhanced by using a shield, wouldn't be bad.
- Re: Aura of Retribution: 5 is definitely the magic number and I agree.

Resounding will need a bit of work, but I at least agree about the idea of making it AoE right from the beginning. The logistics will be what's needed. I still want the idea of knockback (and prone), or deafening and sonic damage, but at least I got a better idea out of it now.
Decided to do that as of the moment. As for a 14th level ability, I decided for "not failing saves on a natural 1"; it gives the vibe of getting an unnatural amount of resolve, and it makes every point worth it.
I thought as much, and I was intending to leave it on that level. I settled for a penalty to attack rolls based on the Paladin's Strength modifier, to make the ability weigh more (sorta like Iron Guard's Glare, but temporary and adding damage)/
I also agree on 8th level, falling right in with Mettle. However, the "Cover-like" ability for 11th level seems a bit too weak for that level range. I'd feel tempted to grant the Paladin free access to Battle Blessing at that level... Any other ideas that might seem fitting for, say, fighting a whole army alone or something?


As for turning and spells, I think they're good as-is. As said, paladins are the militant arm of their faith, their ability to turn being not as great as a cleric of equal level only makes sense, since they're also trained in applying strength of arm alongside strength of faith, so having a balance between the two works best in my thoughts. As for the save DCs, I don't think Pallys really need it, as the spell selection is aimed more at buffing and less against blasting, which the save DCs would be needed for.

I would agree with it, were it not because the inherent problem with Turning. I could introduce a change in the mechanics, but if going with the mechanics as presented on the SRD, the Paladin will need every point it can get, and with this it can, at least, equal the Cleric in terms of potential. However, less uses mean that Turning will be preferably a Cleric trait, as the Cleric might get more uses per day.

Regarding the spell save DCs, the counter-argument for it would be that the Paladin draws heavily from the Cleric spell list, which contains a good number of spells with save DCs. If the intention with the Paladin was to buff instead of having spells with save DCs, I would have had to remove those spells with save DCs (unless they also provided a buff, such as Dispel Evil/Chaos), which defeats the point of expanding the spell list. Because of this, and because the Paladin never gets spells higher than 5th level, those spells that require save DCs should be reasonably useful. It's a clear argument, particularly as the effect of a 2nd level spell by 8th level, or a 3rd level spell by 11th, won't be as much, so it induces to many "traps" scattered all around. Certainly boosting the save DCs makes stuff like Sound Burst a bit more powerful (with a higher DC, that means you get to stun a few people), but the overall effect isn't the same as a 4th level spell. And, because of the small amount of spell slots, that means you'll be competing between buffing spells and spells that cause effects, so you can choose only buffing spells, go a bit closer to damage, or balance it out. So, boosting save DCs is necessary to make the paladin spell list stand out, but since it's based on the paladin's level, it only becomes a big concern with a character whose Paladin level = character level.

[toapat]

One of the major problems i have with any rewrite that happens with a class that gives the class a plethora* of abilities, the more potential people see in it, the more they want to adjust it to the way they want it, and to do something they want.

*A measure of legth, too long for a reasonable character sheet.

Build it the way you want it Oskar. I regret budging on my Marine class.

[T.G. Oskar]

One of the major problems i have with any rewrite that happens with a class that gives the class a plethora* of abilities, the more potential people see in it, the more they want to adjust it to the way they want it, and to do something they want.

*A measure of legth, too long for a reasonable character sheet.

Build it the way you want it Oskar. I regret budging on my Marine class.

I don't make changes ever so slightly. One thing is to refine the concept, another one is to mold it to the likes of others.

When I ask for opinions and post it everywhere I can, I get a load of insight that might be missing. Right now, I found the first few levels were a bit of a hassle, because the Paladin relied mostly on melee attacks and their smites. This isn't theoretical; it's based on playtesting, against a damage-optimized Fighter and a Bard, with a switch-hitter as a fourth man (or woman, essentially). I gauged (correctly) that the Paladin would reach its full potential at 11th level, right after getting 3rd level spells and Divine Grace. Now, I didn't do this thinking of a highly optimized character, but one that used Elite Array (and Middle Age bonuses/penalties), and an unusual method of fighting which wasn't really optimized (Battleaxe and Tower Shield, Javelins for long range damage, but using Stunning Smite and Aura of Devotion which are some of the best abilities there). The current changes reinforce the class as a whole, but specifically reinforce the first few levels so that the Paladin can contribute far from effectively, but not to the degree of being a one-man army without any effort. I couldn't have gotten that just from one source.

That said: I don't just mindlessly agree with what people say. I attempt to debate the reasons, and if I don't find the idea alluring, I don't do it. If I find the idea alluring, I agree to it, and if I find it can be added through modifications, I do so. It's basically doing it the way I want to, but taking into consideration the ideas of others. While I agree that the Paladin is somewhat weak at the first few levels (hence, why I added stuff like Protector's Might to reinforce sword & board and the bonus feat at 2nd level, and now with spell save DCs based on class level meaning that the few 1st level spells with save DCs will remain effective at all levels), I don't like front-loading the class too heavily, hence why I don't agree with other things (such as Aura of Devotion at 1st level, or returning Divine Grace at 2nd level). I find that line of thought a much more rewarding method of homebrewing than just keeping things as I like them or just adding everything people tell me without having thought of the repercussions before.

Thanks for the concern, though.

[toapat]

I think one of the real problems with Paladin is that even in the SRD, they are a frontloaded class with three really late milestones. One of the challenges is making a Paladin a class with more then 9 levels and 11 undead ones, and not lumping the first 6 with abilities.

Anyway, Comments: One thing i noticed when making a Paladin rebuild, was that if you kill wisdom for Charisma, you yield a class that is a little too good with charisma (even if you dont add more spell levels and make a number of abilities based off of Str). Personally im not entirely sure about this, but i believe that a change of the attribute for bonus spells from Cha to Str would alleviate the problem.

Divine Deterrence has no AoE, clearly unintentional, but that is how it is RAW.

Hero of Legend: Outsiderhood is cheesy, and it doesnt contribute to the feel of paladin. Not only that, but it is underwhelming. A paragon of good may be what a paladin, but having them become outsiders comes with the same cheese as the PHB paladin code.

Removal of the Mount: I can see why, although isnt one of the common complaints of DnD that you dungeoncrawl throught 30' Tall corridors 3 miles underground?. The other problem is that as standard, the Mount, being a Horse, gives you little reason to get off it to fight. Its a powerful feature because of how mounted combat works, but its a double edge in that the mount is completely worthless without you sitting on it, why i would wait 3 levels for a Griffin ala Defenders of the Faith, a mount that although still gigantic, is able to at least effectively fight.

(Long commentary about how PF paladin isnt a paladin)

Also: the Marine was a bit also getting too much into the idea and forgetting balance

[T.G. Oskar]

Almost two months late, but here goes. Apologies for the tardiness.


I think one of the real problems with Paladin is that even in the SRD, they are a frontloaded class with three really late milestones. One of the challenges is making a Paladin a class with more then 9 levels and 11 undead ones, and not lumping the first 6 with abilities.

It's less about frontloading and more about "no reason to stay" (the milestones don't help a lot). I've heard people mentioning the importance of a class in the first 5-6 levels (the levels where most people tend to play anyways, a reason why E6 exists in the first place), so a back-loaded class is a really bad idea (since you're trudging through dirt to get to the good stuff, when at those early levels you really needed those abilities). Indeed, it's a challenge to rework a Paladin, but those first 6 abilities have to be carefully considered. At most, the first 6 levels should define the key aspects of the class and the other 14 address each tier of play (if you wish to call it that way), with levels 6-10 addressing less grittier conflict (Heroic conflict), levels 11-15 addressing worldwide conflicts, and levels 16-20 addressing conflicts beyond the grasp of mortal men.


Anyway, Comments: One thing i noticed when making a Paladin rebuild, was that if you kill wisdom for Charisma, you yield a class that is a little too good with charisma (even if you dont add more spell levels and make a number of abilities based off of Str). Personally im not entirely sure about this, but i believe that a change of the attribute for bonus spells from Cha to Str would alleviate the problem.

It's...partly the point. The idea was to have ONE good stat (Charisma) and two equally competing stats (Strength and Constitution) with enough consideration as to have one stat being secondary and the other tertiary. Protector's Might and the auras make Strength less of a necessity, whereas Smite DCs and the power of Divine Punishment/Deterrence, plus a d12 Hit Die, good Fort and Divine Grace make Constitution less of a necessity and reinforces the idea of Strength. That doesn't mean you'll neglect it, but if you were to have, say, three scores (those being 18, 16 and 14), you'll want the best score on your primary score, the second best on your secondary, and so on.

Basing bonus spells out of Strength is...bizarre, to say the least. I have no idea how Illumians can pull it off, because it makes little sense. I say "little" because there must be some sense to use your physical might as a conduit for extra spells, but use your force of personality for spellcasting altogether; yet, that amount of sense is pretty small to say the least.


Divine Deterrence has no AoE, clearly unintentional, but that is how it is RAW.

Technically it's the same area of effect as an aura, even if you drop off the aura when using it. Good catch, tho.


Hero of Legend: Outsiderhood is cheesy, and it doesnt contribute to the feel of paladin. Not only that, but it is underwhelming. A paragon of good may be what a paladin, but having them become outsiders comes with the same cheese as the PHB paladin code.

I'd beg to differ, but I can see where this is going. Becoming an Outsider at very high levels offers very little (immunity to Charm/Dominate Person but the inability to use Enlarge Person, proficiency with all Martial weapons which you have already, and probably Darkvision, about 19 levels late), but it can contribute to the feel: it's the closest thing to becoming the exemplar of what you preach. I don't get that about turning into an outsider being the same cheese, unless you refer to "it stinks the same", in which I mention that the code is not really that stink-worthy (it's the people that wish to exploit it for purposes other than roleplaying that do, which is why I emphasized the idea of making the code an entirely roleplayed thing, not mechanically enforced). If, by the other hand, you refer to having the intricate connection (sure, you're a paragon of good; you also have the responsibilities and restrictions that come with it) with the code, well...remember that such a thing is, once again, best dealt with through roleplay.

Becoming an outsider isn't really underwhelming, though; it is somewhat underwhelming mechanically, but not in terms of roleplay. Becoming an outsider is not just turning into a paragon of what you believe, but it brings the idea of transcendence from the mortal coil. The paladin is above and beyond a mortal, but s/he has earned that; tagging a special code to keep that is expected, but exploitable. The Saint template has the same things: turns you into an outsider with a load of good stuff, but the restrictions are just so oppressive it's just waiting to be exploited. Being a Paladin is already harsh in Core; imagine tagging a template that has a "one strike, you lose all of this FOREVER" thing to it.


Removal of the Mount: I can see why, although isnt one of the common complaints of DnD that you dungeoncrawl throught 30' Tall corridors 3 miles underground?. The other problem is that as standard, the Mount, being a Horse, gives you little reason to get off it to fight. Its a powerful feature because of how mounted combat works, but its a double edge in that the mount is completely worthless without you sitting on it, why i would wait 3 levels for a Griffin ala Defenders of the Faith, a mount that although still gigantic, is able to at least effectively fight.

That's just one of the many complaints which promoted its removal (or at least, its transformation into an ACF). The big one, however, is that it's an ability that simply got tagged on because it represents a very specific archetype, without realizing that the paradigm of said archetype has changed.

In layman terms: not every Paladin HAS to have a mount, and kinda drags you into making that ability useful. Were the Paladin to actually make the mount useful, it would have at least given bonus feats that had Mounted Combat or...I dunno, give Mounted Combat as a bonus feat!? However, if you didn't want to use the Mount for combat and just wanted to go bare-foot, you were losing on what was essentially the best attribute of the Paladin. Later on, you got Charging Smite and Underdark Hunter and Divine Spirit replacing those, but they covered the second half of 3.5's run to pull that off.

Going earlier in the thread, it's much like giving the Paladin wings: it does not cover what most people envision of the Paladin. Already there are people who won't use my work because it's not what they envision (some envision the Crusader as the one and ONLY fix for the Paladin, others use PF, others use different fixes that fit their idea better), so alienating them will cause some trouble. Removing the mount was easier than keeping it, because you'll be capable of finding a mount eventually (just not one that's really powerful), but you also get something for when you get outside of battle AND that applies when you're mounted.


(Long commentary about how PF paladin isnt a paladin)


I'm more than willing to listen to it. Aside from the Smite not being a smite (as I've said, if you're going to smite, I want to see the Lightning of the Gods frickin' smite my opponent, some sort of huge, satisfying BOOOM!!!!, not a "tag, you're it" kind of thing), the rest keeps pretty close to what the 3.5 Paladin was. It gets a slightly better Lay on Hands (which can be used to power Turn Undead), keeps Divine Grace, Aura of Courage and Divine Health, and it retains its spellcasting (just gets one level earlier for purposes of 1st and 2nd level spells). It also retains the mount but offers a core replacement. So I don't see how it can't be a Paladin; I can see how it doesn't satisfy my needs, even if it's much better than what they did to other classes (poor Barbarian and Bard).

[T.G. Oskar]

"The Pally needs help, but I'm scared of homebrew!"

...well, while not exactly explained like that, this is by large the most popular excuse that I've heard regarding any bit of homebrew, whether it's for the Paladin or not.

Let's face it: while I'm more than satisfied by Project Heretica, it won't be everyone's go-to choice for their tables. Some are adamantly convinced WotC made a stealth change by making the Crusader. I can tell you this: in a few weeks from now, Wizards of the Coast will relaunch the Core Rulebooks with added errata. If I see the "Paladin" entry replaced with the Crusader, I will gracefully accept defeat; however, if I see the entry I see on the SRD essentially intact (barring the Errata; aka, if I see Smite Evil and Divine Grace and Spellcasting and the Mount), I will feel truly free to gloat that the Crusader is a great class, but it's NOT the Paladin as WotC envisions it.

Doubly so if the Monk remains as-is.

Some others feel there's nothing wrong with the Paladin, going so far as to decry the Tier System (and any other form of gauging balance points, such as the rightmost Dungeons & Dragons Wiki (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Main_Page) method of balance points (Low/Monk, Moderate/Fighter, High/Rogue, Very High/Wizard) as irrelevant or flawed, and that a Fighter is a perfectly balanced class (and thus, so does the Paladin; the Monk, on the other hand, is unbalanced because it's chock-full of options). Trying to illustrate the point that Wizards, Clerics, Druids and Artificers are better equipped to solve many problems may (and sometimes WILL) be responded with scorn.

Those earlier two cases, well...I don't want to say they're hopeless (everyone's entitled to their opinion; it's a problem when opinion is tried to be used as fact), but there's little I can do to change their minds. It's one reason why I tend to be helpful instead of "here's a much, much better fix for the Paladin; use it and solve all your problems, such as obesity, diabetes and lack of money, not to mention lack of popularity!"

However, there's a group that feels uncomfortable with how the Paladin is presented, but is scared of large homebrew projects. A fully retooled class is akin, to these people, like going through a mad science experiment. If they see far too many changes to the class, they...essentially freeze up and say "no, I don't allow it on my table/I won't use it on my sheet".

Oddly enough, if it's the creator of the class, and it remains short and sweet, people are willing to listen. Examples of this are the Hexblade, the Shadowcaster fix by Mike Mearls, and to an extent the 10-level Invisible Blade by Kolja Raven-Liquette. Some people don't want complete retoolings, but prefer patches, small fixes to the class, instead. If it feels like the old class but works better...well, it's what I want!

Sadly, I'm not the creator of the Paladin class. I wish I could; I wish I was right there on the list of people that made the 3.X version of the rules such as Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Jonathan Tweet and others (ironically, none of them work for WotC anymore, save for Cook's brief stint and eventual departure because of...Mike Mearls). BUT, I can offer a patch that some people might be willing to work with.

In fact, I can offer at least two. And one for the Blackguard, for good measure.

1) The very small Paladin fix

The first version is almost essentially indistinguishable to the core 3.5 Paladin, except for some of the most popular recommendations given out there. This should feel exactly as the Paladin does, but working at least 25% better. It'll be spoilered to reduce space, but it should be otherwise remarkably similar:


Alignment: Lawful Good
Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills: The paladin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) ×4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
+1

+2

0

+0
Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/encounter
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2

+3

0

+0
Divine grace, lay on hands
-
-
-
-


3rd
+3

+3

+1

+1
Aura of courage, bonus feat, divine health
-
-
-
-


4th
+4

+4

+1

+1
Turn undead
0
-
-
-


5th
+5

+4

+1

+1
Smite evil 2/encounter, special mount
0
-
-
-


6th
+6/+1

+5

+2

+2
Bonus Feat
1
-
-
-


7th
+7/+2

+5

+2

+2

1
-
-
-


8th
+8/+3

+6

+2

+2

1
0
-
-


9th
+9/+4

+6

+3

+3
Bonus feat
1
0
-
-


10th
+10/+5

+7

+3

+3
Smite evil 3/encounter
1
1
-
-


11th
+11/+6/+1

+7

+3

+3

1
1
0
-


12th
+12/+7/+2

+8

+4

+4
Bonus feat
1
1
1
-


13th
+13/+8/+3

+8

+4

+4

1
1
1
-


14th
+14/+9/+4

+9

+4

+4

2
1
1
0


15th
+15/+10/+5

+9

+5

+4
Bonus feat, smite evil 4/encounter
2
1
1
1


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1

+10

+5

+5

2
2
1
1


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2

+10

+5

+5

2
2
2
1


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3

+11

+6

+6
Bonus Feat
3
2
2
1


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4

+11

+6

+6

3
3
3
2


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5

+12

+6

+6
Smite evil 5/encounter
3
3
3
3



Smite Evil: Now usable per encounter instead of per day.

Bonus Feats: One at 3rd level, and every three levels afterwards. Choose from Fighter bonus feats, divine feats (after 6th level) or domain feats (after 6th level). Replaces Remove Disease.

Spellcasting: A paladin's caster level is equal to its class level minus 3. Paladin uses Charisma instead of Wisdom for spellcasting (save DC, bonus spells, etc.)

Added spells:
1st -- entropic shield, remove fear, sanctuary, shield of faith
2nd -- aid, bear's endurance, calm emotions, cure moderate wounds (from 3rd level), status
3rd -- cure serious wounds (from 4th level), magic vestment, protection from energy, remove disease
4th -- cure critical wounds, disrupting weapon, righteous might

Now, as you can see, it's slightly more powerful (I mean, it incorporates some stuff from Pathfinder!), but not THAT much. The feats are there because they're part Fighter, and they get only a few more spells. Nothing earth-shattering like Air Walk or Find Traps. They get a few healing spells earlier, but no biggie. Really; this is pretty lax for a fix, and the only reason it's on a table is because it looks neat. But, aside from the feats (and that it says "per encounter" instead of "per day"), it's basically the same table from the SRD. If you don't agree with this and feel this fix makes it too powerful...I have no idea what you're smoking, but I don't want that! Then again, I don't smoke. I abstain from tobacco, alcohol and other stuff.

2) The moderate Paladin fix

Now this fix is a bit more extensive, because it changes even MORE of the stuff. It'll look a lot like the Pathfinder Paladin for many reasons; it's not the PF Paladin, but it darn looks just like it!


Alignment: Lawful Good or Neutral Good
Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills: The paladin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ×4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


1st
+1

+2

0

+2
Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/encounter
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2

+3

0

+3
Divine grace, lay on hands
-
-
-
-


3rd
+3

+3

+1

+3
Aura of courage, bonus feat, divine health
-
-
-
-


4th
+4

+4

+1

+4
Turn undead
1
-
-
-


5th
+5

+4

+1

+4
Divine bond, smite evil 2/encounter
1
-
-
-


6th
+6/+1

+5

+2

+5
Bonus Feat
2
-
-
-


7th
+7/+2

+5

+2

+5

2
-
-
-


8th
+8/+3

+6

+2

+6
Aura of resolve
2
1
-
-


9th
+9/+4

+6

+3

+6
Bonus feat
2
1
-
-


10th
+10/+5

+7

+3

+7
Smite evil 3/encounter
2
2
-
-


11th
+11/+6/+1

+7

+3

+7

2
2
1
-


12th
+12/+7/+2

+8

+4

+8
Bonus feat
2
2
2
-


13th
+13/+8/+3

+8

+4

+8
Aura of righteousness
2
2
2
-


14th
+14/+9/+4

+9

+4

+9

3
2
2
1


15th
+15/+10/+5

+9

+5

+9
Bonus feat, smite evil 4/encounter
3
2
2
2


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1

+10

+5

+10

3
3
2
2


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2

+10

+5

+10

3
3
3
2


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3

+11

+6

+11
Bonus Feat
4
3
3
2


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4

+11

+6

+11

4
4
4
3


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5

+12

+6

+12
Smite evil 5/encounter
4
4
4
4



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins gain proficiency with tower shields

Smite Evil: Now usable per encounter instead of per day. A paladin deals extra smite damage equal to 5 plus her class level.

Mark Evil (ACF): as Pathfinder Paladin Smite Evil, usable 1/day + 1/5 paladin levels, replaces Smite Evil.

Aura of Courage: The range of a paladin's aura of courage increases by 10 ft. for every five class levels above 3rd.

Lay on Hands: A paladin's daily allotment of healing is equal to 5 plus her class level times her Charisma modifier.

Bonus Feats: One at 3rd level, and every three levels afterwards. Choose from Fighter bonus feats, divine feats (after 6th level) or domain feats (after 6th level). Replaces Remove Disease.

Spellcasting: A paladin's caster level is equal to its class level minus 3. Paladin uses Charisma instead of Wisdom for spellcasting (save DC, bonus spells, etc.)

Added spells:
1st -- aid, entropic shield, remove fear, sanctuary, shield of faith
2nd -- bear's endurance, calm emotions, cure moderate wounds (from 3rd level), dispel magic (from 3rd level), find traps, heroism, sound burst, spiritual weapon, status
3rd -- air walk, cure serious wounds (from 4th level), good hope, greater magic weapon (from 4th level), invisibility purge, magic vestment, protection from energy, remove disease, searing light, water breathing
4th -- cure critical wounds, dimensional anchor, disrupting weapon, holy smite, righteous might, spell resistance, true seeing

Turn Undead: A paladin turns undead as a cleric of its class level.

Divine Bond: As the Pathfinder Paladin's divine bond. ACFs that replace special mount replace this ability instead.

Aura of Resolve: A paladin is immune to charm effects. Allies within range of aura of courage gain a +4 morale bonus on saves vs. charm effects.

Aura of Righteousness: A paladin gains damage reduction 10/evil and immunity to compulsion spells. Allies within range of aura of courage gain a +4 morale bonus on saves vs. compulsion effects.

Now this feels like a proper fix (the other one feels like a half-hearted patch), since it adds more stuff, makes other stuff better, and addresses some of the class' problems. The spells are much, MUCH better, and both smite evil and lay on hands feel like real menaces now. You can change your mount for a holy-esque sword. You get more feats, AND you can be Neutral Good now. You don't get the Mercies, of course, but you can essentially smite to your leisure and get Divine Feats galore. You also miss on two of the PF Paladin auras (Justice because you don't grant everyone the ability to smite evil, and Faith because...well, that's what Bless Weapon is for anyways! Or a Holy Avenger, of course), but the remaining auras are MUCH better than in any incarnation. If you feel this is too much, refer to the above patch. If you feel this is still too little, then refer to below.

3) The Heavy Paladin Fix

Refer to the first page, second post. That's your heavy Paladin fix there. A heavy Paladin fix IS essentially a complete retool, which is the whole purpose of this thread after all. I support the heavy Paladin fix, by the way; this is for the benefit of those who want less intensive fixes.

[T.G. Oskar]

4) The Prestige Paladin fix

The following is if you believe that the Paladin works best as a Prestige Class and not as a class. As it stands, the Prestige Paladin is truly underwhelming, only worthwhile to get Paladin stuff for 3 levels and then drop it like it's hot, while getting that nifty Cleric spellcasting (or Favored Soul, that is). I like it as a class, but if you swing towards a PrC, this is the fix for you.

Requirements
To qualify to become a paladin, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Lawful or neutral good
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Feats: at least two of the following: Improved Shield Bash, Improved Sunder, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization
Spellcasting: Able to cast 1st level divine spells, able to cast protection from evil as a divine spell

Class Skills
The paladin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Spells per Day


1st
+1

+2

+0

+2
Detect evil, smite evil 1/encounter, turn undead
-


2nd
+2

+3

+0

+3
Divine grace, lay on hands, special mount
+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


3rd
+3

+3

+1

+3
Aura of courage, divine health
+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


4th
+4

+4

+1

+4
Bonus feat
-


5th
+5

+4

+1

+4
Smite evil 2/encounter
+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


6th
+6

+5

+2

+5

+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


7th
+7

+5

+2

+5
Bonus feat
-


8th
+8

+6

+2

+6

+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


9th
+9

+6

+3

+6

+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


10th
+10

+7

+3

+7
Bonus feat, smite evil 3/encounter
-


11th
+11

+7

+3

+7

+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


12th
+12

+8

+4

+8

+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


13th
+13

+8

+4

+8
Bonus feat
-


14th
+14

+9

+4

+9

+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability


15th
+15

+9

+5

+9
Smite evil 4/encounter
+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A paladin grants proficiency with tower shields.

Spellcasting: At every level except 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th and 13th, the Paladin advances spellcasting as if it gained a level in a divine spellcasting class it belonged previously. She gains spells per day (and spells known), and an increase in caster level as if she had gained a level in the class, but not any other benefit. She may cast spells from her base spell list or the Paladin spell list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm); if a spell appears a level or two earlier, the paladin may cast it at that level, unless the spell allows a save DC. At 10th level and again at 13th level, the paladin gains an increase in caster level but not on spellcasting ability. Battle Blessing explicitly works with spells cast by a paladin, but only up to 4th level.

Smite Evil: Once per encounter, a paladin may smite evil. A paladin adds her Charisma to attack rolls and deals extra damage equal to 5 plus her class level. If the paladin has a smiting ability from another class(such as that from the Destruction domain), levels in that class stack for purposes of determining smite damage. A paladin gains an extra use of smite evil every five class levels.

Turn Undead: A paladin gains the ability to turn undead as a cleric of its class level; levels in cleric stack with levels in paladin to determine turning ability.

Lay on Hands: A paladin may heal herself or others by touch, up to a number of hit points equal to 5 plus her class level times her Charisma modifier.

Special Mount: A paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent mount. Her mount progresses as per the Paladin's special mount, but she counts as a paladin of three levels higher than the norm. The mount also gain the celestial template for free.

Bonus Feats: A paladin gains a bonus feat at 4th level and every three levels after 4th. She may choose from Fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. She must meet the prerequisites for the feats, as usual.

Because the PrC version of the Paladin has the benefit of other classes' abilities, it's not as important to really buff it as it would with a class. It does have some clarifications (Battle Blessing!), but otherwise it's not necessarily a powerhouse. It's better than the original, of course, because it has slightly better spellcasting ability (8/13 spellcasting, which is roughly equivalent to 6/10ths spellcasting, a minor boost from that sorry excuse for half-spellcasting). The levels that don't grant spellcasting levels instead grant feats, which can be expended on divine or domain feats, which is very nice indeed.

Bonus) The Blackguard fix

Because Project Heretica is "not just a Paladin retooling" (as I've more than shown off), it's natural to consider that the Blackguard may just have the same treatment as the Paladin. And, considering that the Blackguard IS already a PrC, it essentially should have the same treatment as the Prestige Paladin. It's more of a bonus than anything else, so...

Requirements
To qualify to become a blackguard, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any evil
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Intimidate 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks
Feats: at least one of the following: Improved Sunder, Mounted Combat, Power Attack
Special: Must have made contact with an evil outsider

Class Skills
The blackguard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sleight of Hand (Dex)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Spells per Day


1st
+1

+2

+0

+2
Aura of evil, detect good, smite good 1/encounter
As paladin


2nd
+2

+3

+0

+3
Dark blessing, wounding touch
As paladin


3rd
+3

+3

+1

+3
Aura of despair, combat talent, poison mastery
As paladin


4th
+4

+4

+1

+4
Rebuke undead
As paladin


5th
+5

+4

+1

+4
Fiendish servant, smite good 2/encounter
As paladin


6th
+6

+5

+2

+5
Combat talent
As paladin


7th
+7

+5

+2

+5

As paladin


8th
+8

+6

+2

+6

As paladin


9th
+9

+6

+3

+6
Combat talent
As paladin


10th
+10

+7

+3

+7
Smite good 3/encounter
As paladin


11th
+11

+7

+3

+7

As paladin


12th
+12

+8

+4

+8
Combat talent
As paladin


13th
+13

+8

+4

+8

As paladin


14th
+14

+9

+4

+9

As paladin


15th
+15

+9

+5

+9
Combat talent, smite good 4/encounter
As paladin



Spellcasting: A blackguard advances spellcasting as if per a paladin, with the following exceptions: the list of spells a blackguard may cast are presented below. A blackguard with no levels in paladin casts spells as a paladin of a level equal to his class level +3.

1st -- bane, cause fear, corrupt weapon**, cure light wounds, deathwatch, detect magic, detect poison, doom, divine favor, endure elements, entropic shield, inflict light wounds, magic weapon, obscuring mist, protection from good, ray of enfeeblement, resistance, summon monster I*.

2nd -- aid, blindness/deafness, bull’s strength, command undead, cure moderate wounds, darkness, death knell, dispel magic, eagle’s splendor, enthrall, inflict moderate wounds, invisibility, shatter, summon monster II*.

3rd -- animate dead, bestow curse, contagion, crushing despair, cure serious wounds, deeper darkness, greater magic weapon, inflict serious wounds, magic circle against good, magic vestment, protection from energy, rage, summon monster III*, vampiric touch.

4th -- cure critical wounds, enervation, fear, freedom of movement, greater dispel magic, greater invisibility, inflict critical wounds, lesser planar ally, poison, righteous might, slay living, spell resistance, summon monster IV*, unholy sword**.

*: Evil creatures only
**: As bless weapon and holy sword, but replace all instances of "good" with "evil", "holy" with "unholy" and viceversa.

Aura of Good: The power of a blackguard's aura of good is equal to his character level.

Detect Good: A blackguard may detect good at will as a cleric of his character level.

Smite Good: Once per encounter, a blackguard may smite good. A blackguard adds his Charisma to attack rolls and deals extra damage equal to 5 plus his class level. The blackguard gains an extra use of smite good every five class levels.

Dark Blessing: The blackguard adds his Charisma modifier to all saving throws.

Wounding Touch: A blackguard may cause damage on others by touch, up to a number of hit points equal to 5 plus his class level times her Charisma modifier. The blackguard may heal undead through these means. A blackguard cannot affect creatures immune to negative energy damage by these means.

Aura of Despair (Su): A blackguard imposes a -2 penalty on all saving throws on all enemies within 10 ft.

Combat Talent: A blackguard gains a bonus feat at 3rd level. He may choose from Fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. She must meet the prerequisites for the feats, as usual. Alternatively, he gains the ability to sneak attack as a rogue, dealing an extra 1d6 points of damage with each attack. Every three class levels after the 3rd, the blackguard may choose to gain a new bonus feat or advance sneak attack.

Poison Mastery: The blackguard is immune to all poisons, magical or otherwise. Furthermore, he may apply a poison to a weapon as a swift action.

Rebuke Undead: A 4th level blackguard gains the ability to rebuke undead as a cleric of its class level plus 3; levels in cleric stack with levels in blackguard to determine rebuking ability.

Fiendish Servant: A blackguard gains the service of a fiendish creature. This creature must be one of the following: bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven or toad. The creature gains the fiendish template and gains abilities based on this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm#theBlackguardsFiendishServant).

Fallen Paladins
If the blackguard had levels in the paladin class and fell (thus becoming an ex-paladin), he gains further benefits based on how many levels he had:

1-2 levels: Reclaim uses of smite evil as smite good. Stack fallen paladin levels with blackguard levels for damage. Reclaim spellcasting ability; stack fallen paladin levels with blackguard levels for purposes of spellcasting ability.
3-4 levels: Use wounding touch to heal wounds (as if undead). Stack fallen paladin levels for purposes of determining wounding touch daily allotment.
5-6 levels: Stack fallen paladin levels with blackguard levels for purposes of rebuke undead.
7-9 levels: Regain immunity to fear, disease. Stack fallen paladin levels with blackguard levels for fiendish servant bonuses.
10+ levels: May corrupt holy avenger (turn into +5 unholy cold iron longsword, constant magic circle against good, targeted greater dispel magic at-will, SR 5+character level).
As you can see, the blackguard is pretty powerful all on its own. It's easier to access, has better skills, a choice between more feats or sneak attack, and more. The spell list is further improved. Also, its synergy with (ex-)paladin(s) is far, far better than before. The blackguard also gains immunity to all poisons. It's definitely less of a minion and more of a challenge. It's pretty, pretty close to a full retool, but as you may know, the full retool is on the third post of this thread (and is a class proper, plus it can kick this guy's booty brutally, even with the extra sneak attack tacked in).

--

So, questions? Comments? A fitting appendix to a wonderful thread? A bad joke that needs to be scratched away? Note that this isn't me backing off; this is an option for those who are scared of the complexity of the Project Heretica classes but want to see the Paladin (and Blackguard) mean something other than "2 levels for Divine Grace, 4 for Turn/Rebuke Undead".

[Pakis54]

i signed in for the 1st time just to write that i absolutely love your idea in the paladin class...i dont like at all the way u implemented it!!

i am pretty sure no god would choose a 0 lvl commoner to become his 1st lvl divine champion/emmesary/watch dog/.... whatever u like u may put here, without having proven his self even once not just in battle but at least tested his heart against the evil of this world....so having said that i am 100% sure paladin should be something like a prestige.what i mean is...prestige classes have 10 lvl max (for non epic situations anyways) while i do strongly believe paladin should have a 20 lvl progression but i also believe that someone to fullfil that role of a true paladin should have some "normal" prerequisites to become one!!
i cant for example believe that a god with 40+ wisdom would chose the 1st noble,kind hearted 15 year old and say...ok this guy is gonna travel the world and fight for me!!! unless in extreme cases of course,someone should prove his worth to his noble cause...otherwise every cleric following heironeus in this world should be a paladin!!not even a fighter lvl needed since they get wpn focus from their domain!!!

well i could continue for a while but not even sure if this topic is active...i just found this threat trying to find ideas for a paladin and i really liked the idea u had of him in most cases...especially ur idea about removing immunity to fear which had never crossed my mind!! :smallsmile:

[Lord_Gareth]

Oskar, the dead levels on these PrCs offend me. Could you not simply shorten the progression and thus eliminate such levels?

[T.G. Oskar]

Oskar, the dead levels on these PrCs offend me. Could you not simply shorten the progression and thus eliminate such levels?

I could, but...there's a pretty obvious (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) reason why it happens as such. Since they're not a fully fledged retooling of the Prestige Paladin, but rather a minor retooling, I declined for further changes. If I were to change it more and more, it would run counter to the intention of these minor fixes (make them simpler so that people don't run away from them).

There IS a good reason (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm) (irony intended) why the opposite can be true, though, but that doesn't ensure it'll lack dead levels due to compression. There's a chance it might happen (accelerating smites to 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th, then shifting bonus feats to cover uneven levels), but if not done correctly, you risk people saying "too much changes, I won't allow it". It's already a gamble to offer alternatives to my main attempt to properly deal with the Paladin, so the reward should better be worth the risk.


i signed in for the 1st time just to write that i absolutely love your idea in the paladin class...i dont like at all the way u implemented it!!

i am pretty sure no god would choose a 0 lvl commoner to become his 1st lvl divine champion/emmesary/watch dog/.... whatever u like u may put here, without having proven his self even once not just in battle but at least tested his heart against the evil of this world....so having said that i am 100% sure paladin should be something like a prestige.what i mean is...prestige classes have 10 lvl max (for non epic situations anyways) while i do strongly believe paladin should have a 20 lvl progression but i also believe that someone to fullfil that role of a true paladin should have some "normal" prerequisites to become one!!
i cant for example believe that a god with 40+ wisdom would chose the 1st noble,kind hearted 15 year old and say...ok this guy is gonna travel the world and fight for me!!! unless in extreme cases of course,someone should prove his worth to his noble cause...otherwise every cleric following heironeus in this world should be a paladin!!not even a fighter lvl needed since they get wpn focus from their domain!!!

well i could continue for a while but not even sure if this topic is active...i just found this threat trying to find ideas for a paladin and i really liked the idea u had of him in most cases...especially ur idea about removing immunity to fear which had never crossed my mind!! :smallsmile:

Actually...why a 15 year old guy can't be a Paladin, but it can become a Cleric? The fluff suggests that the Paladin begins training as a youth, becoming a page to a senior knight, then its squire, and finally earning its spurs and armor through the investiture ceremony that turns him (or her) into a Paladin.

Second: a Paladin doesn't necessarily HAS to follow a god, unless it's Krynn or Faerun. Paladins are champions of Good, not champions of god(s); therefore, you can be an agnostic Paladin (follows no god, but believes in an inherent form of divinity that grants him or her its powers) or a Paladin devoted to good but that refuses all gods (drawing its powers from Mt. Celestia itself, for example).

Third, I don't have it quite clear what's the problem. It's my hunch that you only read a few bits of the material and found some troubles with it. I'll err on the side of wrong for this one, but the proper retool is how I envision the class; the appendix deals with alternatives for those who don't like seeing way too many changes to the class and are comfortable with some minor fixes. The Prestige Paladin fell on that set of alternatives, which would work fine as you intend (a character that has to fulfill some obligations before becoming a proper Paladin, a servant of its deity or a warrior blessed by Good to face Evil). Now, if you find that a PrC with 15 levels is somehow wrong, not only the original Prestige Paladin has 15 levels worth of abilities (well, sort of), but there are other PrCs that exceed 10 levels pre-Epic (Necrocarnate and True Necromancer, for example), even if they're rare and spread out. I'm in the middle of getting convinced to collapse the class to 10 levels so that it looks kosher, but I need to get a solid reason why that should happen from people that might be scared of the many changes done by heavy retooling and want something "light" but not "look at Tome of Battle and play a Crusader; there's your Paladin".

[Pakis54]

Thx for answering me man..hope ur not offended by the way i said things in my post!!




The fluff suggests that the Paladin begins training as a youth, becoming a page to a senior knight, then its squire, and finally earning its spurs and armor through the investiture ceremony that turns him (or her) into a Paladin.


This is one of the ways of becoming a paladin,i believe....though i believe its more of a way to become a knight than a true paladin!! The difference beeing,in my eyes at least, that a knight is more a lawful guy while a paladin tends more to the good side of the balance rather in the law-chaos axis!!

I will answer 1st ur 2nd thing: "a Paladin doesn't necessarily HAS to follow a god"! i agree, generally a "greater power" is grnating him/her with the powers she posses i used gods as a way to over simplify things cause really i didnt wanted to write a whole composition which no one would see cause i didnt know if the topic was active!! :smallbiggrin:
Now what i believe that a paladin is a a Divine champion/holy champ of some greater GOOD power And from inside him comes a great sense of order and "obligation" to the world into doing the good,he feels he has to do things the "right" way....so he is Lawful too! he is a Lawful champ of Good.not just champ of good!!


So "why cant a 15 yr old become a paladin?" i am not saying it cant happen...i am saying that from the 50 or 100 cases of paladins...only 2-5 people would be chosen as paladins at such a tender age!!!
And the reason why i say this is that the world (whichever that might be) is a cruel,hard....evil world! (or at least thats the grim i like to put in my worlds so the good actions of the few really get a good praise and approval from society and give a certain satisfaction to my players)
So since the world is all that bad and this is talking in general there are of course exceptions i dont wannt be absolute....a 15 yr old has not yet gone out there....seen or better felt, true evil with his eyes...most importantly...cause he has always been considered to be a "kid" no one would have ever tried to "take him to the dark side" or bribe him with power over people...generally hasnt proven his heart to the world!! i hope u understand what i am trying to say!!!

i think we both agree that to be a true paladin there has to participate one way or the other in some kind of ritual,apocalypse or something divine so he may take those divine powers! cause anyone could be a LG fighter or cleric or combination of those two and be considered by the whole world a paladin,and everyone calling him a paladin but beeing called a paladin and really beeing one has a difference!!
So this guy who became a paladin had someone/something up there who took notice of him....in the age of 15 how many gods would actually care to take notice of u when there are hundreads of other pple adventuring and doing good with experience in battle and proving everyday that they can actually can do it?? its not impossible but i am saying in most cases there are others before you!!
And what i wanted to say when i said about gods having 40+ wisdom is that the paladin is a road for those very few and no god or greater power would want to see his paladin turn into a blackguard/antipaladin tomorrow....someone he chose and gave him his powers turn against him when the next guy tells him "i will offer u this......" u can put whatever u like between the dots!! thats why i am saying he should prove in most cases his worth against the sinister foes...and not just against simple minded goblins and kobolts!!which ur obviously gonna fight at 1st lvls!!

about ur 3rd comment...i read the pladin alone and just the 1st 2-3 pages of comments in which u had added other classes like the blackguard so i dont really know the whole context of what has been said (but u cant blame a man when u write so much lol-but anyways i was looking for a new idea for a paldin really)

now about not feeling good with major changes i thought i gave the impression of the contrary having said about a special prestige with 20 classes instead of the typical 10 u would find in most cases!!! anyways thats not my problem at all...i find all the prestige classes i found the same and exact thing the normal class has just stuffed in 10 lvls rather than in 20 lvls which the Phb has and was utter BS in 99% of the cases while urs had new fresh ideas and not just a recycling of the same all crap and thats why i commented here!

Now why i believe the class should be prestige is cause i believe someone to fullfil the role of a paladin should have somethings as requirements....for example i believe a paladin should have a good wisdom! in most cases we see people playing the lawful stupid paladin! i have for example even seen guys trying to play a paladin and trying to convince a skeleton to not attack them!!!!!!! since the paladin is a leader he must not make hasty and stupid desicions cause in most cases its not just his own life at stake which he might want to throw away but since the whole party is following (not forgetting the cohorts etc etc) he cant make stupid decisions and put their live in front of certain death! he should have some certain experience to lead people,to listen what others have to say and not act hasty to realize whats going on around him and not run into traps..all those things i believe come from a good if not high wisdom score...and thats yet another reason why i believe a 15yr old cant still be a paladin...how can he lead other pple when he does not have the exp for that?!! and we want people to respect him of course not follow him just cause he shines on his way to their doom!!!
also...he should be able to interact in a good way with people....he dont want him swearing all the time in inapropriate situations...a dimploacy even if not that good i believe is a necessity and same goes for knowledge nobility(its not only to see if u know that king or the other paladin) but also in showing respect to people greater than him in a matter or ranks,experience,age etc etc...also,i believe a paladin should be able to treat his wounded frnds and companions a small rank in healing checks would only benefit him...he cant let them die when they are injured...he is the one who took him...his feeling of responsibility towards them makes him learn few things about healing methods,and of course for himself if he is travels alone,he cant always depend on the gods mercifulness!! moreover a knowledge of even the most basics in religions is smthg a paladin should have so he can distinguish the followers of good and evil gods their markings their teachings and of course what is that greater power who granted him those powers!!! in the end it might sound the same as good wisdom but i believe he should have an indomitable will,iron will or whatever will bonus so he can be considered someone who does not change his mind easily or runs away from problems only cause he doesnt like the way they sound...he must have that integrity and even maybe stubborness to not back off when facing an evildoer!! sorry for the huge comment...hope u understand what i am trying to say and sorry for my english!! peace!

[Popertop]

he should have some certain experience to lead people,to listen what others have to say and not act hasty to realize whats going on around him and not run into traps..all those things i believe come from a good if not high wisdom score...and thats yet another reason why i believe a 15yr old cant still be a paladin...how can he lead other pple when he does not have the exp for that?!!


.... also...he should be able to interact in a good way with people....

If I remember correctly, in the older editions the Paladin was a prestige class, and you needed to have 17 (!) Cha in some cases in order to take it.

So I can see the design choice you are agreeing with here.

Well said.

[NineThePuma]

That might be true of 1E, but 2E AD&D the paladin could be taken at base... but required some high scores in order to even take it. My PHB for that edition is not in reach, but I can go grab it if you need me to.

It's worth noting that every "Fighter" type class (Warrior/Ranger/Paladin) all basically got Leadership free at 9th level in the prior edition.

Also, none of them could cast spells, so yeah.

[T.G. Oskar]

This is one of the ways of becoming a paladin,i believe....though i believe its more of a way to become a knight than a true paladin!! The difference beeing,in my eyes at least, that a knight is more a lawful guy while a paladin tends more to the good side of the balance rather in the law-chaos axis!!

True, but here's the deal: the Paladin, as envisioned right from 1st Edition, had the feel of a knight. The way in which you became a paladin was essentially the knight's investiture rites.

Recall that the inspiration for the Paladin right from 1st Edition was that of Charlemagne's Paladins (particularly those from Three Hearts and Three Lions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hearts_and_Three_Lions)), based on the chansons de geste dealing with Roland and the Twelve Peers. Another inspiration, of course, is the Knights of the Round Table.


I will answer 1st ur 2nd thing: "a Paladin doesn't necessarily HAS to follow a god"! i agree, generally a "greater power" is grnating him/her with the powers she posses i used gods as a way to over simplify things cause really i didnt wanted to write a whole composition which no one would see cause i didnt know if the topic was active!! :smallbiggrin:
Now what i believe that a paladin is a a Divine champion/holy champ of some greater GOOD power And from inside him comes a great sense of order and "obligation" to the world into doing the good,he feels he has to do things the "right" way....so he is Lawful too! he is a Lawful champ of Good.not just champ of good!!

That's something I decided to change, if only a bit. Paladins still have that Lawful bent, but I relaxed that feel because doing things the "right" way *CAN* be pretty subjective. One's vision of right and wrong WILL differ from the other, and both may aspire to the same goal.

Now, the perception of the Paladin has changed greatly from one edition to another. I also feel that the Paladin is a Divine Champion (the reason why I consider the skeleton of abilities the Project Heretica Paladin an example of the "Divine Champion" chassis), with some of the trappings of a classical knight interwoven within; the Paladin is the Champion, whereas the Cleric is the Voice and the conduit of Power (and the Favored Soul is just a lucky guy who gets to be the god's favorite). Part of that change is how many other games have envisioned Paladins; they have removed the knightly trappings to a point and infused divine power up the wazoo, and the end result is less "noble knight" and more "divine champion". This isn't inherently bad.

What's bad is when you take the "divine" side to its "logical" conclusion. The manifestation of divinity does not necessarily HAS to involve a deity. D&D involves the pursuit of divinity through a philosophy, rather than a physical being; whereas in 1st and 2nd Edition this wasn't the case, 3rd Edition ran with the idea and somewhat promoted it. The Druid is no less divine (as it uses "DIVINE" magic) than a Cleric, but a Druid doesn't have to follow a god. It follows nature, which provides that power. The Paladin, likewise, follows a deity of good, the philosophy of good, or gains power from the paragons of Good.

As for whether it HAS to be Lawful...you can expect the paragons of Good to trust someone that's disciplined, but sometimes that doesn't need to be the case. The idea of "Lawful Stupidity" stems from the idea of someone who follows the way of Law far more than it follows the way of Good; when the "right" thing to do conflicts with the Good thing to do, and you insist on the "right" thing even if it's morally ambiguous. If you HAVE to be equally Lawful as you are Good, you'll end up unable to act in that way, which leads to inaction through negligence, which can be far worse than doing something wrong.


So "why cant a 15 yr old become a paladin?" i am not saying it cant happen...i am saying that from the 50 or 100 cases of paladins...only 2-5 people would be chosen as paladins at such a tender age!!!
And the reason why i say this is that the world (whichever that might be) is a cruel,hard....evil world! (or at least thats the grim i like to put in my worlds so the good actions of the few really get a good praise and approval from society and give a certain satisfaction to my players)
So since the world is all that bad and this is talking in general there are of course exceptions i dont wannt be absolute....a 15 yr old has not yet gone out there....seen or better felt, true evil with his eyes...most importantly...cause he has always been considered to be a "kid" no one would have ever tried to "take him to the dark side" or bribe him with power over people...generally hasnt proven his heart to the world!! i hope u understand what i am trying to say!!!

i think we both agree that to be a true paladin there has to participate one way or the other in some kind of ritual,apocalypse or something divine so he may take those divine powers! cause anyone could be a LG fighter or cleric or combination of those two and be considered by the whole world a paladin,and everyone calling him a paladin but beeing called a paladin and really beeing one has a difference!!
So this guy who became a paladin had someone/something up there who took notice of him....in the age of 15 how many gods would actually care to take notice of u when there are hundreads of other pple adventuring and doing good with experience in battle and proving everyday that they can actually can do it?? its not impossible but i am saying in most cases there are others before you!!

Reading this, and the next paragraph, points me to a slight little thing. I have the impression you're falling into Stormwind Fallacy, though not as clear as it may seem. I might be wrong, and I'll err on my judgment being wrong, but you're placing far too much importance on the roleplaying aspect and trying to steer the mechanics to fit that aspect: the powers HAVE to be earned after a test that proves your worth, but this test has to be roleplayed. The character HAS to be both Lawful and Good, instead of being devoted to Good but having some wiggle room between Law (without truly falling into Chaos). The Paladin can't be a youth (or at least, starting his adulthood) because it hasn't yet tested himself.

For starters, the Paladin's fluff states that the prospective individual is chosen from his youth; if you decided, on character creation, that you wanted to have a level in Paladin, is because the gods, or the paragons of Good, deemed that you were worthy in word and deed (incidently, why you have to start as Lawful Good; in my case, Neutral Good is allowed as well). This is part of your backstory, as implied by the developers; you have, somehow, proven yourself to be a worthy Paladin. From what I see, you have a different vision of how a Paladin becomes worthwhile; it has to prove himself (or herself) in adventure, rather than through some minor deed. That's admirable, but it's something that you as a DM, or perhaps as a request for your DM as a player, must work. It's your opinion on how a Paladin has to earn its spurs, which isn't the same belief as others might. To make it better: more than proving you have the right to become a Paladin, I believe that you have to prove you can REMAIN a Paladin. Part of the reason I removed the severe "revocation of power" penalty from the Paladin is because it didn't fulfill its function, which is something that should be dealt almost exclusively through roleplaying. If you're roleplaying a Paladin wrong, it shouldn't be because you're trying to dodge a mechanical penalty, but because you're playing the Paladin wrong; however, if you're at least struggling, you should have some room for mistakes. Otherwise, no one would be capable of becoming a Paladin, because the restrictions would be so strict, no one would meet them. Think of Roy when he gets audited on Celestia; that's how I envision the paragons of Good watching whenever someone fits to be a Paladin. If they strive, even if they fail, to be Good in word and deed, they're fit to become Paladins, because their quest will be one filled with strife, and failure.


And what i wanted to say when i said about gods having 40+ wisdom is that the paladin is a road for those very few and no god or greater power would want to see his paladin turn into a blackguard/antipaladin tomorrow....someone he chose and gave him his powers turn against him when the next guy tells him "i will offer u this......" u can put whatever u like between the dots!! thats why i am saying he should prove in most cases his worth against the sinister foes...and not just against simple minded goblins and kobolts!!which ur obviously gonna fight at 1st lvls!!

That last sentence deals with another concern: in my opinion, no evil is too small to be considered worthless.

Sure, no god, nor greater power, wishes for its champion to fall into Darkness. No god, or greater power, at least in D&D, is perfect to prevent that; otherwise, knowing that every mortal has the chance, and the choice, to follow Good or Evil (some more than others, particularly humans) and that said mortal has the chance to taste absolute Good and then fall, no god or greater power would grant the mantle of the Paladin to ANYONE save for their own angels (and even then, you see fallen angels around). They can choose a few that will be hardened enough to resist temptation, but it's not perfect. You have to also consider the nature of that offer; if the offer is pointless and you choose it, you did it because you wanted. But what about the conflict; when both choices are of equal value, and right (or wrong) are meaningless? When there's no third choice, or when time or circumstances prevent you from making a third choice? Will the paragons of Good lay down their banhammer to the Paladin because circumstances go against it?

Don't tell me "that's what Atonement is for", because that's not the answer. Someone who'll obviously choose the "right" answer leads to a boring story. When someone, conflicted between the choice of its lifetime or standing up for his beliefs, chooses his beliefs and surpasses its weakness of will, it creates an astounding tale. It's not the same when you have someone that you know that'll choose "no" when a fiend grants him power, than when you know that someone will choose "yes" and you suddenly hear that "I don't, and I won't" that leaves everyone speechless. It doesn't have the same weight. The former is your impression of Paladinhood; rigid, inflexible, hardened and tested. The latter is what happens when someone who's "unfit" to be a Paladin proves his mettle, and proves why he's really fit to be one. The former doesn't require a Wisdom of 40+; the latter requires an understanding of the individual that transcends a mere ability score.

To make it short: no evil, nor evil act, nor good, nor good act, is too small to be worthless. When a 1st level Paladin, yet untested on the world, finishes a small warband of orcs, it might not have shifted the weight of Good and Evil towards Good, but it made a small step, and probably helped a community that needed it. Knowing that someone devoted to good did it, and not someone who did it for glory or following the whims of a deity, matters to that community just as much. It's, once again, something best dealt with roleplaying, which is the core of your concerns.

now about not feeling good with major changes i thought i gave the impression of the contrary having said about a special prestige with 20 classes instead of the typical 10 u would find in most cases!!! anyways thats not my problem at all...i find all the prestige classes i found the same and exact thing the normal class has just stuffed in 10 lvls rather than in 20 lvls which the Phb has and was utter BS in 99% of the cases while urs had new fresh ideas and not just a recycling of the same all crap and thats why i commented here!


Now why i believe the class should be prestige is cause i believe someone to fullfil the role of a paladin should have somethings as requirements....for example i believe a paladin should have a good wisdom! in most cases we see people playing the lawful stupid paladin! i have for example even seen guys trying to play a paladin and trying to convince a skeleton to not attack them!!!!!!! since the paladin is a leader he must not make hasty and stupid desicions cause in most cases its not just his own life at stake which he might want to throw away but since the whole party is following (not forgetting the cohorts etc etc) he cant make stupid decisions and put their live in front of certain death! he should have some certain experience to lead people,to listen what others have to say and not act hasty to realize whats going on around him and not run into traps..all those things i believe come from a good if not high wisdom score...and thats yet another reason why i believe a 15yr old cant still be a paladin...how can he lead other pple when he does not have the exp for that?!! and we want people to respect him of course not follow him just cause he shines on his way to their doom!!!
also...he should be able to interact in a good way with people....he dont want him swearing all the time in inapropriate situations...a dimploacy even if not that good i believe is a necessity and same goes for knowledge nobility(its not only to see if u know that king or the other paladin) but also in showing respect to people greater than him in a matter or ranks,experience,age etc etc...also,i believe a paladin should be able to treat his wounded frnds and companions a small rank in healing checks would only benefit him...he cant let them die when they are injured...he is the one who took him...his feeling of responsibility towards them makes him learn few things about healing methods,and of course for himself if he is travels alone,he cant always depend on the gods mercifulness!! moreover a knowledge of even the most basics in religions is smthg a paladin should have so he can distinguish the followers of good and evil gods their markings their teachings and of course what is that greater power who granted him those powers!!! in the end it might sound the same as good wisdom but i believe he should have an indomitable will,iron will or whatever will bonus so he can be considered someone who does not change his mind easily or runs away from problems only cause he doesnt like the way they sound...he must have that integrity and even maybe stubborness to not back off when facing an evildoer!!

To finish this off, my belief on what should be a Paladin is on the first page. The appendix is for those who don't like such a heavy change, and have a distinct way of seeing a Paladin...which is exactly what you seek. The Prestige Paladin minor fix is, as stated, minor because it's not what I really wanted to focus upon, but as an answer to people who, like you, prefer the Paladin to be something earned, not something given. However, a great deal of your argument was heavily rooted on solutions that could be dealt with roleplaying, and which don't need a mechanical change at all, or as few mechanical changes as possible. You could make use of the Prestige Paladin, perhaps just the first 10 levels, and change the requirements so that they fit your vision of what a Paladin MUST be.

I could say, and it would be correct, that I did the fixes in the appendix essentially half-hearted, if only because I'm satisfied with my solution (the one at the first page of the thread), and I did it so that it would be a starting point. That doesn't mean it can't be refined, but if I want to refine it, it has to appeal to more than one person.

Part of the changes were to deal with mechanical concerns that more people than you have mentioned. The lack of mention to Wisdom comes from the idea that Paladins require far too many ability scores to be effective; the dreaded Multiple Ability Dependency, or MAD. Paladins need good scores in Strength (because they're martial characters), Constitution (because they're martial characters and intend to draw all hate towards themselves) and Charisma (which fuels many of its powers), and there are a lack of synergies between the three that require each to have equal importance. Wisdom in order to have a good amount of spells and perhaps some decent Will saves but nothing else just adds to the problem; hence, I removed the need for Wisdom. The concerns you state are mostly roleplaying ones; Paladins played unwisely doesn't involve the ability score, but the player's motivations; the lack of a strong will to resist compulsions is a mechanical concern, but best solved in a different way. One important concern is that "a leader is wise", but also "a leader is experienced"; experience SHOULD imply a deeper amount of Wisdom, but sometimes you can be aloof, distracted, and yet someone with a solid perspective on what things have to be done (or not), even if in others the character is a complete dunce. The mechanics of D&D weren't made to exemplify that; they're abstractions, which really cannot represent the actual Wisdom or Intelligence of the player, which may be higher (or lower) than what they have written. As proven with the problem of the Code, trying to bind mechanics to roleplay in an extremely deep extent can only lead into trouble. The big problem is that, as with most games with a strong simulationist bent, D&D has a rigid set of rules that don't favor choices that HAVE to be explained through roleplaying, even if the game IS a roleplaying one, as the idea of the game is overcoming challenges to become stronger and more powerful, in order to overcome tougher challenges. This requires (note how I used "imply" and "require") a minor degree of optimization, which requires to suspend the notion that all choices have to have some roleplaying explanation, because otherwise you may be unfit to solve some of the challenges (and hence find the problems with the Monk, the Paladin, and most classes at Tier 5 and so on).

Again, to shorten this: sometimes, it's best to think of the mechanics instead of roleplaying. That doesn't mean roleplaying isn't important; however, bad mechanical choices will lead to less chances to exploit your roleplaying, which is not good.


about ur 3rd comment...i read the pladin alone and just the 1st 2-3 pages of comments in which u had added other classes like the blackguard so i dont really know the whole context of what has been said (but u cant blame a man when u write so much lol-but anyways i was looking for a new idea for a paldin really)

Well, this is a pretty large thread, so undoubtedly you'll find yourself ending up with "TL;DR" and getting the itch to post whatever problems you have. However, that's the reason why I have a first page with the table of contents (with all the stuff you need to see) and why the appendix has that title; it's shorthand for what you might be looking for, but didn't find on the first page.


sorry for the huge comment...hope u understand what i am trying to say and sorry for my english!! peace!

Sir, I will admit three things.

First, I thrive on huge comments. I dissect them carefully and study every bit, even if at times I might seem to give it a light read.

Second, I like huge comments, because the larger the comment, the larger the response will be, and the more elaborate the answer.

Third, English is not my native language. I don't expect you to speak perfect English; I don't consider myself a native speaker (but pretty darn close). If you have any comments you feel you can speak on your native language, and that language happens to be Spanish, you can PM me and I can explain better. If it's another language, then we'll have to struggle with the English. Now, if your native language IS English...well...I'd like to say you have an excuse but that might not be possible. I incline that English is not your native language, but it was less "a mess to understand" and more "a mouthful" (as in, just speaking your mind out instead of going slowly with it), which makes it easier to understand than "a mess". So don't feel bad by it.


If I remember correctly, in the older editions the Paladin was a prestige class, and you needed to have 17 (!) Cha in some cases in order to take it.

So I can see the design choice you are agreeing with here.

Well said.


That might be true of 1E, but 2E AD&D the paladin could be taken at base... but required some high scores in order to even take it. My PHB for that edition is not in reach, but I can go grab it if you need me to.

It's worth noting that every "Fighter" type class (Warrior/Ranger/Paladin) all basically got Leadership free at 9th level in the prior edition.

Also, none of them could cast spells, so yeah.

Time to clear things out! I love when this theme comes out.

If going with Basic D&D (OD&D) and the Rules Cyclopedia, the Paladin technically was a "prestige" class of the Fighter. The Paladin was, in essence, a 9th level Fighter of Lawful alignment that refused to hold a land, and instead decided to travel the world.

If going with AD&D 1st Edition, the Paladin was a base class, or to be a bit stricter, an alternate class (or, if going through Pathfinder terms, archetype) of the Fighter. The Paladin had minimum requirements in 5(!) ability scores. The Unearthed Arcana supplement shifted the sub-class of Paladin (again, alternate class or archetype) from Fighter to Cavalier.

If going with AD&D 2nd Edition, the Paladin was exactly the same as with AD&D 1st Edition, except that the Paladin could be considered more of a base class rather than an alternate, as it belonged to the set of Fighter classes but the Fighter class proper was its own class.

But, if one thing they ALL have, is that they could cast spells. Right from Rules Cyclopedia, they could cast spells as a cleric of one-third its level (thus, a 9th level Paladin could cast spells as a 3rd level Cleric). From AD&D 1st Edition and afterwards, they cast spells using their own table. 3rd Edition grants them spells five levels earlier, but slows their progression to a snail's pace.

Recall that the first proper "prestige" class in existence was the Bard, as it required you to have levels in three classes (Fighter, Thief and Druid), and replaced your Druid levels with Bard levels as well as keeping all the stuff from Fighter and Thief (what eventually the Fochlucan Lyrist made). Paladins as Prestige Classes exist mostly on Wizardry games, where you couldn't make a Lord character at character creation unless you had real good scores, and instead relied on changing classes after a while (and even then, since you could become a Lord if you had 30 bonus points or so, it's not really a prestige class but a class proper). So, there weren't any "prestige" Paladins roaming around.

But, since you're piqued by the "prestige" version of the Paladin, I ask of you: would you like a prestigious version of the Project Heretica Paladin? Do you find the existing fix to the Prestige Paladin decent enough (aside from Gareth, who mentioned his discontent for the dead levels), or do you find it could have a slight boost? Recall, for the last one, that it should be friendly enough for skeptic DMs to consider usable, instead of anathema.

[NineThePuma]

My apologies for the misinformation about inability to cast spells. I think it slipped my mind because the Paladin (as written in 2e) did not interest me very much.

Also, as a random aside, while we have your attention, Oskar.

Do you have any plans to revisit your Ki-Chassis classes, particularly the Ninja? Like any older work, it ages, and I feel like you could give it more justice now than you did back then. =X

[T.G. Oskar]

Also, as a random aside, while we have your attention, Oskar.

Do you have any plans to revisit your Ki-Chassis classes, particularly the Ninja? Like any older work, it ages, and I feel like you could give it more justice now than you did back then. =X

Well, as you know, the Monk had an extensive revision, the likes of which I'm fully satisfied. The Samurai and the Ninja are, indeed, overdue for a revision, but I haven't had the inspiration for it. I know the Samurai is at least solid given the amount of playtesting given by Arguskos, but the Ninja feels much like the Monk did (more of a build, though the large amount of skills and skill points was a saving grace).

I've always felt tempted to make the Ninja similar to that of Naruto, but it wouldn't have made justice at all. I got a lingering wisp around that led me to think that I could make some of the ki-based skill boosts work in a similar way to the (300% more complex) Monk's Way of the Beasts, but I would have to work other class abilities to justify it.

As for the Samurai...I really wanted the class to have its own weight, without having to rely on maneuvers. Unlike the Monk or the Ninja, the Samurai never felt like a build, if only because the combat styles made the class quite distinct. However, it feels like it could have something else to contribute at. Yet, whenever I think what else to add, it always ends up with maneuvers. Something as having a pool of general maneuvers (Stone Dragon, perhaps White Raven) and then a specific discipline for each combat style (Kenjutsu = Iron Heart or Diamond Mind, the other becoming part of the general maneuvers; Kyujutsu = Falling Rain, the homebrew ranged discipline, Nitoujutsu = Tiger Claw?; Seigan = no idea; Jujutsu = Setting Sun), but it would end up no different from a Warblade with a focus on Wisdom instead of Intelligence (and proficiency with ranged weapons). If I can pull something that depends on no maneuvers, I'll definitely jump on it; however, so as long as anything seems even close to a maneuver, I have to decline. Samurai was already hard to work with, so I have to make justice if I'm to improve it.

[NineThePuma]

Ninja is more important to me than samurai in this case, as you've managed to handle the "Fighter" the "White Mage" and the "Black Mage" 'archtypes' so to speak fairly well over the course of your career as a home brewer. The rogueish skill monkey stuff though is sorely laking in your portfolio.

[Pakis54]

well 1st of all i am sorry but i am greek!! :smallsmile:
but we have something in common..bad economies lol :p

i am also not familiar with 1st or 2nd and had just 1yr exp in 3rd edition but something like 8 yrs exp in 3.5 and now pathfinder i am also not used to some acronyms but i pretty much got the idea of what ur saying...i think!!

About the Lawfull thing...i know this could just get is in a huuge (even more than what we already have anyways) conversation about AL and i am not sure its gonna serve anyhting and i can respect the fact u have different opinion than mine in what you like,in the end its your paladin but i wanna say about this:
"As for whether it HAS to be Lawful...you can expect the paragons of Good to trust someone that's disciplined, but sometimes that doesn't need to be the case. The idea of "Lawful Stupidity" stems from the idea of someone who follows the way of Law far more than it follows the way of Good; when the "right" thing to do conflicts with the Good thing to do, and you insist on the "right" thing even if it's morally ambiguous. If you HAVE to be equally Lawful as you are Good, you'll end up unable to act in that way, which leads to inaction through negligence, which can be far worse than doing something wrong."

if u follow this you are more of a Divine champ like u put it than a Knight...a knight is someone who obeys the rules no matter what!!
About the fact that people who tend to follow more the Lawful axis than the Good one i believe its mostly cause they dont read "behind the lines" they dont get the essence of what is beeing said and just fallow the "rules" blindly!! i think a good GM should point out to them what the real meaning of the law is and also they should on their own dwell more in both their AL and code of conduct!

Lawful Good
A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. He combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. He tells the truth, keeps his word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.


Lawful good is the best alignment you can be because it combines honor and compassion.

Lawful good can be a dangerous alignment when it restricts freedom and criminalizes self-interest.

While strict in their prosecution of law and order, characters of lawful good alignment follow these precepts to improve the common weal. Certain freedoms must, of course, be sacrificed in order to bring order; but truth is of highest value, and life and beauty of great importance. The benefits of this society are to be brought to all. Creatures of lawful good alignment view the cosmos with varying degrees of lawfulness or desire for good. The are convinced that order and law are absolutely necessary to assure good, and that good is best defined as whatever brings the most benefit to the greater number of decent, thinking creatures and the least woe to the rest. (1)

Characters of this alignment believe that an orderly, strong society with a well-organized government can work to make life better for the majority of the people. To ensure the quality of life, laws must be created and obeyed. When people respect the laws and try to help one another, society as a whole prospers. These characters strive for those things that will bring the greatest benefit to the most people and cause the least harm. (2)


These characters have a strong moral character. Truth, honor, and the welfare of others is all-important. They are convinced that order and laws are absolutely necessary to assure that goodness prevails. Lawful good beings will not want to lie or cheat anyone, good or evil. They will not stand for treachery and will not let obviously dishonorable people use their own honor against them, if they can help it. They will obey the laws and customs of the area that they are in, but will attempt to find legal loopholes to disobey a law which is clearly evil or unjust. (3)


Lawful good characters are group and order oriented, and will cooperate with authority in all cases to promote the common weal. Not all lawful good beings view the cosmos with an equal desire for lawfulness and goodness, so there is no such thing as a perfectly balanced "lawful good" attitude (nor a perfectly balanced attitude for any other alignment, for that matter). In general, however, a lawful good character promotes the ideals and rights of the majority over those of the individual (and this includes himself as well as others) and upholds the rights of the weak and oppressed members of society, who should be allowed to reap society's benefits with equanimity. The lawful good being feels this is the best way that all members of society can enjoy the rights of existence together. Life is important to the lawful good being, but life is not exclusive of order, and vice versa. (4)


Lawful good can appear to be a difficult alignment to uphold, but it must be remembered that lawful good characters are not necessarily naive or unrealistic. At the heart of a lawful good alignment is the belief in a system of laws that promotes the welfare of all members of a society, ensures their safety, and guarantees justice. So long as the laws are just and applied fairly to all people, it doesn't matter to the lawful good character whether they originate from a democracy or a dictator. Though all lawful good systems adhere to the same general principles, specific laws may be different. One society may allow a wife to have two husbands, another may enforce strict monogamy. Gambling may be tolerated in one system, forbidden in another. A lawful good character respects the laws of other lawful good cultures and will not seek to impose his own values on their citizens. (5)


However, a lawful good character will not honor a law that runs contrary to his alignment. A government may believe that unregulated gambling provides a harmless diversion, but a lawful good character may determine that the policy has resulted in devastating poverty and despair. In this character's mind, the government is guilty of a lawless act by promoting an exploitative and destructive enterprise. In response, he may encourage citizens to refrain from gambling, or he may work to change the law. Particularly abhorrent practices, such as slavery and torture, may force the lawful good character to take direct action. It doesn't matter if these practices are culturally acceptable or sanctioned by well-meaning officials. The lawful good character's sense of justice compels him to intervene and alleviate as much suffering as he can. Note, though, that time constraints, inadequate resources, and other commitments may limit his involvement. While a lawful good character might wish for a cultural revolution in a society that tolerates cannibalism, he may have to content himself with rescuing a few victims before circumstances force him to leave the area. (6)


When will a lawful good character take a life? A lawful good being kills whenever necessary to promote the greater good, or to protect himself, his companions, or anyone whom he's vowed to defend. In times of war, he strikes down the enemies of his nation. He does not interfere with a legal execution, so long as the punishment fits the crime. Otherwise, a lawful good character avoids killing whenever possible. He does not kill a person who is merely suspected of a crime, nor does this character necessarily kill someone he perceives to be a threat unless he has tangible evidence or certain knowledge of evildoing. He never kills for treasure or personal gain. He never knowingly kills an innocent being. (7)


A lawful good character will keep his word if he gives it and will never lie. He will never attack an unarmed foe and will never harm an innocent. He will not use torture to extract information or for pleasure. He will never kill for pleasure, only in self-defense or in the defense of others. A lawful good character will never use poison. He will help those in need and he prefers to work with others. He responds well to higher authority, is trustful of organizations, and will always follow the law. He will never betray a family member, comrade, or friend (though he will attempt to bring an immoral or law-breaking friend to justice, in order to rehabilitate that person). Lawful good characters respect the concepts of self-discipline and honor. (7)


Here are some possible adjectives describing lawful good characters: friendly, courteous, sensitive to the feelings of others, scrupulous, honorable, trustworthy, reliable, helpful, loyal, and respectful of "life, love, and the pursuit of happiness."

The Ten Lawful Good Commandments

A list of Ten Commandments for a lawful good religion may look like this:

1. You shall not lie.
2. You shall not harm the innocent.
3. You shall not murder.
4. You shall help the needy.
5. You shall honor legitimate authority that promotes goodness.
6. You shall follow the law.
7. You shall not betray others.
8. You shall bring criminals and evil-doers to justice.
9. You shall not steal.
10. You shall seek unlimited good for others and unlimited order in society.

Ten Lawful Good Sins

Likewise, a lawful good religion may list the following as sins. This list is given in the order of least severe infraction to most severe.



1. Failing to show respect to lawful good churches, governments, and/or beings.
2. Failing to speak out against corruption, sin, greed, pride, etc.
3. Being motivated by pride, avarice, gluttony, or some other sinful impulse.
4. Theft, robbery, or willful vandalism.
5. Causing harm to a pious or virtuous being.
6. Failing to assist or aid good beings when in need.
7. Blasphemous or heretical acts.
8. Allowing a crime or major act of evil to go unpunished.
9. The murder of an innocent.
10. Aiding the servants of Chaos and Evil.

Lawful Good and Society

A lawful good being...
Respects the authority figures in his family and obeys their mandates.
Values lifelong commitment to a romantic partner.
Obeys all personal contracts.
Respects the laws and authority figures of the community and nation.
Considers public service in a leadership role an honor.
Supports the legal procedures of the nation, without regard to their own discomfort.
Seeks secure employment, believing hard work will pay off in the end.
Will not want to disappoint his family.
Will support their family even if it means personal discomfort.
Will never betray a friend and enjoys having close friends.
Considers the needs of the community in personal life.
Will give his life in defense of his community.
Will take actions to aid others during times of crisis, even if unprofitable to do so.
Believes everyone should be treated fairly and kindly.
Feels guilt when he commits a wrongdoing and will seek to right his wrong.
Uses wealth to help others who are less fortunate.


A community with a lawful good government usually has a codified set of laws, and most people willingly obey those laws. In a lawful good society, the people are generally honest, law-abiding, and helpful. They mean well (at least most of them do). They respect the law. As a rule, people don't walk around wearing armor and carrying weapons. Those who do are viewed with suspicion or as trouble-makers. Some societies tend to dislike adventurers, since they often bring trouble.

The Philosophy of Lawful Good

Lawful good is the philosophy that goodness is best achieved through law and order. It is a philosophy of altruistic collectivism. This philosophy holds that people should behave altruistically and put the needs of the group ahead of individual desires. Lawful good can also be associated with rule utilitarianism and ethical altruism.

Lawful good philosophers generally maintain that there is metaphysical order in the multiverse and thus may support doctrines of hard determinism, predeterminism, fatalism, predestination, and/or necessitarianism. They may believe in fate or destiny. They tend to be moral objectivists, holding that values exist in the external world independently of and external to our comprehension of them; that they can be found and known; and that they must be used as principles for human judgments and conduct.

The ideal government for this alignment is an authoritarian state with codified laws supporting a social order in which altruism is rewarded and radical egoism is punished. Lawful good beings want the power of the state to be used for the benefit of all. Rehabilitative justice is used to reform criminals and evil-doers.

i believe that if someone really gets this and realizes a Lawful guy not just a paladin is something like what happens in in the militia for those that have served...you put rules in your daily life and live by them...u have priorities....saving someones life is more important than lying for example...so the rules are important...but they come with some prioroty accoridng to their significance...(by the way the numbers in the sins for example dont go from most important to less important they are random) maybe a paladin is more strict to that and maybe not....this has also to be with the general idea his has....with his deity's commands,holy bible..whatever!!!

i have no idea what "Stormwind Fallacy" is and google didnt really help me but ya ur right that i would preffer to see the person in game get the class rathen than just say out of game...u managed it...cause u had this great backround and then find out the hard way that the player is not capable of actually playing that character..which will probbaly result in the end of having a fallen paladin and maybe a blackguard which is the most usual route in such occasions!! i dont wanna be absolute on this though but most of the times i think people just say "whatever" or "we have atonment" which is sooooo often used like panacea (and thats of course the Dm's fault),on this forum actually a guy wrote "i will have an atonment scroll on me and use it if i fall from paladinhood" and no one said a thing and i was like WTF???

in the end what i wanna say is...if u really try to play the class...i think you will be greately rewarded and the differences in what is Lawfull and what is not wont seem so great!and since this is more or less a pact between the player and the dm that i am gonna play this way (which actually benefits the dm) he should help and pay more attention his paladin and the difference that occur mostly cause of the very abstact and bad imo AL system!

" If you're roleplaying a Paladin wrong, it shouldn't be because you're trying to dodge a mechanical penalty, but because you're playing the Paladin wrong; however, if you're at least struggling, you should have some room for mistakes. Otherwise, no one would be capable of becoming a Paladin, because the restrictions would be so strict, no one would meet them. Think of Roy when he gets audited on Celestia; that's how I envision the paragons of Good watching whenever someone fits to be a Paladin. If they strive, even if they fail, to be Good in word and deed, they're fit to become Paladins, because their quest will be one filled with strife, and failure."

+100 here!!!

about this:
"Sure, no god, nor greater power, wishes for its champion to fall into Darkness. No god, or greater power, at least in D&D, is perfect to prevent that; otherwise, knowing that every mortal has the chance, and the choice, to follow Good or Evil (some more than others, particularly humans) and that said mortal has the chance to taste absolute Good and then fall, no god or greater power would grant the mantle of the Paladin to ANYONE save for their own angels (and even then, you see fallen angels around). They can choose a few that will be hardened enough to resist temptation, but it's not perfect. You have to also consider the nature of that offer; if the offer is pointless and you choose it, you did it because you wanted. But what about the conflict; when both choices are of equal value, and right (or wrong) are meaningless? When there's no third choice, or when time or circumstances prevent you from making a third choice? Will the paragons of Good lay down their banhammer to the Paladin because circumstances go against it?
"

sure no one is perfect (in the end even gods are roleplayed by a human) i am just saying they could and should be more cautious in their choices thats all!! i think i gave a bad example when talking about goblins and kobolts! they are of course evil! and maybe i am wrong in comparing pelor's goodness with how much of a big evil a goblin is!!

and maybe i do think of roleplaying to be of huge importance in comparsion to the mechanics i guess its how i work most of the time :p

[T.G. Oskar]

Seasons' Greetings to all of you people!!

So...it's 15 days before Christmas, and it'd be bad not to give a gift to all of you, at least one related to this HUUUUGE project, no?

I was planning for a "Twelve Days of Christmas" thing, but it'd be difficult to provide twelve new/unreleased bits of homebrew, one for each day. I believe I have enough material, of course, but the difficulty consists on something else, namely posting each bit of content, and what would be fitting for each day (and that includes any playing days, of course).

However, one thing I can do is provide new material for the Project. You might wonder "well, what else?" I have classes, PrCs, and even equipment.

How about spells?

Since most of these spells are exclusive to the four classes presented here, I deem it fit that they're presented as part of the Project, rather than devote a new thread. Most of these spells require a shield as a focus, and complement all classes. Spending 12 different posts to present one spell per day would be creative, but excessive; ergo, the compromise is that I post the spells during Christmas.

Also, I should post the Justiciar and the Anarch on the good and proper D&D Wiki any time soon, and I need to figure what gift should I give you guys (in terms of homebrew, of course) from the Magi.

That'd be all. It's essentially a glorified *bump*, but one that promises to deliver future material.

If you're curious: two spells are retooled, the other are brand new, save for one which covers a spell Wizards get that Clerics don't (unless by means of domains). I'll leave that as discussion until Christmas.

[T.G. Oskar]

Merry Christmas, everyone! Let's see what Santa has left you on the...

Hunh? Whaddya mean Christmas is over? What about the Epiphany? The 8 days after, giving thanks to the Magi? The two weeks of further celebration? The feastdays reminiscing St. Sebastian? February 2nd?

Well, since most of you have finished their Christmas celebrations, let's see what Santa left on the...

Stockings are empty! Why, jollly fat old elf, why!?

Oh, wait...the Magi left you gifts all! And, fittingly, they left a wealth of knowledge...regarding spells for Divine Champions! Hooray!

Oh, one of them left me a note, mentioning that he was a bit unhappy that some spells were too weak, so they researched some improvements to them. So, here they are:

GLORY OF THE MARTYR
Abjuration/Conjuration (healing) [Good]
Level: Anarch 4, Justiciar 4, Paladin 4
Components: V, S, F, DF
Target: One creature/level

This spell acts as shield other, except as mentioned above and as follows. All affected subjects gain a +1 sacred bonus to Armor Class and all saving throws per three caster levels. If you die while the spell is in effect, all creatures immediately heal 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels.

Focus: A platinum ring (worth at least 50 gp each) worn by you and each of the warded creatures.

GLORY OF THE MARTYR, LESSER
Abjuration/Conjuration (healing) [Good]
Level: Anarch 2, Justiciar 2, Paladin 2
Components: V, S, F, DF

With a brief, yet sublime prayer on the nature of martyrdom, the caster imbues the ring with a pale light. Once the rings are donned, wisps of light bind to the caster as ethereal wings of light manifest and cover the ward.

This spell acts as shield other, except as mentioned above and as follows. The warded subject gain a +1 sacred bonus to Armor Class and all saving throws per three caster levels. If you die while the spell is in effect, all creatures immediately heal 4d8 points of damage plus 1 per caster level.

These are two of the spells changed, and if you can't use the main version, the lesser version is fair play.

Glory of the Martyr is one of the best spells, IMO, available on Book of Exalted Deeds that was never ported into latter games. The spell was, in essence, an area of effect version of Shield Other, down to the deflection bonuses to AC and resistance bonuses to saving throws, except that if the caster died, there was also a healing effect. Being a high level Paladin spell, the idea is to make it truly worthwhile, so something had to be done.

The first thing I did was to boost Shield Other so that the bonus scaled. Doing that, Glory of the Martyr shifts the deflection and resistance bonuses into sacred bonuses, meaning they stack with many other bonuses to AC and saving throws. Finally, the healing effect bound to the spell was vastly improved, because something along the lines of a Mass Cure Light Wounds spell isn't exactly fair. Lesser Glory of the Martyr grants the equivalent of a Cure Critical Wounds spell, but since it's a 2nd level spell, it's quite potent nonetheless.

HOLY SHIELD
Abjuration/Transmutation [Good]
Level: Paladin 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Touch
Target: Shield touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Waving the hand upon its surface, the shield begins to shine with a bright light, pulsating brighter and dimmer as if it was a heartbeat. Less than an inch from the shield’s surface, the sigil of the caster’s faith shines.

This spell allows you to channel holy power into any shield you choose. The shield acts as a +5 shield of spell resistance (providing a spell resistance equal to 15 + caster level); if used to shield bash, the shield acts as if a +5 holy weapon (gaining a +5 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls and dealing an extra 2d6 points of damage against evil creatures). Any evil creature making a successful non-reach melee attack against you takes 2d6 points of damage from a surge of holy power. While wielding the shield, you are always considered as if brandishing your holy symbol. The spell is automatically canceled 1 round after the shield leaves your hand. You cannot have more than one holy shield at a time.

If this spell is cast on a magic shield, the powers of the spell supersede any that the shield normally has, rendering the normal enhancement bonus and powers of the weapon inoperative for the duration of the spell. This spell is not cumulative with shield of warding (see Spell Compendium for details on the spell) or any spell that might modify the shield in any way.

If your character level exceeds 20th, this spell imbues the shield with an enhancement bonus of +6, plus 1 for every two caster levels over 12th. If you hold a weapon enhanced with the holy sword spell and a shield enhanced by the holy shield spell at the same time, the two spells have a synergy effect: so as long as you wield both weapons, any evil creature that makes a non-reach melee attack against an ally within your magic circle against evil takes 2d6 points of damage (as if attacking you), and you deal this damage against any melee attack against you, so as long as the enemy is within range of the magic circle against evil effect.

This spell does not work on artifacts.

Note: the caster level enhancement assumes the paladin’s caster level is equal to half its class level. If the paladin has a caster level based on other means (such as equal to its class level, or equal to its class level -3), the enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every three caster levels after the 21st.

One of the new spells, and as you may expect, it makes reference to one of the spells that got a change.

The question behind this was as follows: if Paladins could get a temporary magic sword, why not get a suitable temporary magic shield? Thus, based on the specifics of Holy Sword, a shield variant was added.

As you can notice, the spell provides you with a shield that grants spell resistance (which may be a bit redundant with the existing ones from the Project Heretica Divine Champions, but not to the vanilla 3.5 or PF Paladin), that also provides a bonus to attack and damage when used as a weapon, AND provides retributive damage. This is a big thing I want to emphasize, because it adds to the total damage a character can provide, particularly (as you'll see with latter spells) if the damage is pretty much inevitable.

Since it's based off Holy Sword, it's natural that a synergy effect exists between both spells. As mentioned before, the best form of retributive damage is the one that's pretty much inevitable. A Magic Circle against Evil effect has a decent range (10 ft.), so if positioned correctly, enemies that attack your allies will still get damaged, thus making the Divine Champions deal damage even when it's not their turn (and particularly hurting those that land multiple hits).

HOLY SWORD
Evocation [Good]
Level: Pal 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Touch
Target: Melee weapon touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Kneeling, thrusting the sword upon the ground, the caster chants a small prayer to the forces of Good to imbue it with holy power. As the chant ends, the sword begins to glow with bright light, and an aura of goodness projects from the sword outwards.

This spell allows you to channel holy power into your sword, or any other melee weapon you choose. The weapon acts as a +5 holy weapon (+5 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls, extra 2d6 damage against evil opponents). It also emits a magic circle against evil effect (as the spell). If the magic circle ends, the sword creates a new one on your turn as a free action. The spell is automatically canceled 1 round after the weapon leaves your hand. You cannot have more than one holy sword at a time.

If this spell is cast on a magic weapon, the powers of the spell supersede any that the weapon normally has, rendering the normal enhancement bonus and powers of the weapon inoperative for the duration of the spell. This spell is not cumulative with bless weapon or any other spell that might modify the weapon in any way.

If your character level exceeds 20th, this spell imbues the weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6, plus 1 for every two caster levels over 12th. At caster level 15th, the holy enchantment becomes holy power.

This spell does not work on artifacts.

Note: A masterwork weapon’s bonus to attack does not stack with an enhancement bonus to attack. The caster level enhancement assumes the paladin’s caster level is equal to half its class level. If the paladin has a caster level based on other means (such as equal to its class level, or equal to its class level -3), the enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every three caster levels after the 21st. Likewise, the paladin gains the holy power upgrade to the weapon at caster level 30th.

And yeah: Holy Sword was upgraded.

The first, and most notable boost, is that the spell is now cast as a swift action, almost duplicating the use of this spell. Since it works on any weapon equipped, you have the capability of starting the battle with a magic weapon, even if you're only limited to a mundane weapon.

The second bit is that the spell improves beyond Epic levels. It's great that at level 14 you have a +5 holy weapon, but not the same after 21st level. However, having a +9 weapon of holy power as a swift action IS worthwhile at 30th level.

PRISMATIC SWORD
Evocation/Transmutation
Level: Anarch 4, Duskblade 4, Sorcerer/Wizard 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Melee weapon touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

Brandishing and presenting the sword, the caster utters the words of the spell’s incantation. The sword begins to shine with the colors of the rainbow, gaining a crystalline sheen that alternates stripes of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet.

This spell allows you to channel magic power into a melee weapon, temporarily imbuing it with the power of spells such as prismatic sphere and prismatic wall. The weapon gains a +5 enhancement bonus (plus 1 for every three caster levels after the 18th). Any time the wielder makes the first successful attack against a creature of 8 HD or lower, the target becomes blinded for 2d4 rounds (no save).

Once per round, the wielder of the enchanted weapon may unleash a burst of blinding energy against a creature attacked by it as a swift action. If the wielder of the weapon succeeds on the attack, the target is affected as if struck by a beam from the prismatic spray spell: roll a d8 and determine the result on the table. If the die result is 1, 2 or 3, the target is automatically affected by the damage, requiring no save.

While the weapon is enchanted, the wielder also gains several properties. The wielder is immune to any cone of cold, gust of wind, disintegrate or magic missile spell cast upon it, but only once per each individual spell per round, and this results in the spell temporarily losing its effects until the beginning of the wielder’s next turn. The wielder can also dispel any daylight spell (and specifically daylight) in effect within the area. However, any dispel magic (and specifically dispel magic) automatically ends the effect; any other dispelling effect automatically fails.

Hey look, this spell snuck into the spell lists of Duskblades, Wizards and Sorcerers! You may be probably bashing me now because it's not an Anarch-exclusive spell, but hey, it's a pretty solid bone I threw them.

So, basically, this is a unique version of Holy Sword, except the effect is much, much different. It's based on Prismatic Bow from Spell Compendium, with the main difference that it can be used every round, for a large amount of rounds (at least for a minute, to be exact). The reason why it's pretty much tailor-made for the Anarch is evident: the random effect of Prismatic Spray, which is somewhat less powerful than Prismatic Wall but nonetheless pretty potent (you can kill instantly with poison, petrify or banish) or deal a large amount of damage (80 points of electricity damage, no save, no SR). You're essentially leaving to the RNGs whether the enemy will survive or die brutally.

Since the Prismatic effect is sustained, it gets affected by a variety of spells, much like the Prismatic Wall; the main difference is that you don't lose a fraction of the effects when the right spell affects you. You also get protection against Disintegrate (and Cone of Cold and Magic Missile, but the last one is easy to block), which is pretty nice as well.

SHIELD OF REFLECTION
Abjuration
Level: Anarch 4, Blackguard 4, Cleric 7, Justiciar 4, Paladin 4
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Until expended or 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

Upon finishing the incantation of the spell, the shield takes on a reflective sheen, with divine runes floating an inch from it. Whenever a spell is cast, the divine runes react and the reflective sheen expands to cover the caster’s body, taking the shape of a globe.

This spell enchants the caster’s shield so that it reflects spells cast upon the target. The spell duplicates the effect of spell turning, except the caster must wield a shield for the duration. If the caster is the target of a spell with the [harmless] descriptor, it may choose to negate the effect of this spell and allow the other spell to affect it. As well, if the attacker succeeds on a touch spell, but would fail otherwise if adding the AC from the shield, the attacker is considered to have touched the shield, allowing the caster to reflect the touch spell.

This spell is not cumulative with shield of warding (see Spell Compendium for details on the spell) or any spell that might modify the weapon in any way.

Focus: A light, heavy or tower shield, which must be worn for the duration of the spell.

This is the first of a series of spells (including the next four that follow) that involve damage redirection in one way or another, but this one is the strongest of them all. In essence, you get the Spell Turning effect but improved, as it affects touch spells too (it still doesn't affect AoE spells, though) and it discerns between buffs and dangerous spells. Clerics get it roughly at the same moment (in fact, one level HIGHER) that the Divine Champions get the spell, so they don't get special predilection.

SHIELD OF RETRIBUTION
Abjuration
Level: Anarch 2, Blackguard 2, Justiciar 2, Paladin 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: Yes (see text)

The caster puts his shield forward, uttering the incantation while putting its hand behind the shield. With the incantation complete, the shield glows with a dim light and a soft hum, which turn into a bright flash and a loud clang when the wielder is struck.

This spell enchants the caster’s shield so that it returns part of the damage dealt to it. Whenever the caster takes successful damage from a melee attack, half of the damage taken by the caster is dealt to the attacker. The damage comes from divine origin and cannot be reduced by means of damage reduction or energy resistance, but creatures with spell resistance ignore the attack if the caster does not succeed on its spell resistance check.

If this spell and either shield other or glory of the martyr are active at the same time, the spell creates a synergistic effect. Whenever the caster absorbs damage from a melee attack done to one of its wards, it returns half of the damage received (effectively one quarter of the damage dealt by the attacker).

This spell is not cumulative with shield of warding (see Spell Compendium for details on the spell) or any spell that might modify the shield in any way.

Focus: A light, heavy or tower shield, which must be worn for the duration of the spell.

Special: If using the Project Heretica classes, this spell creates a synergy effect with the divine champion’s auras. A Paladin, Blackguard or Justiciar emitting its Aura (or Sanction) of Retribution returns damage equal to half the damage dealt plus the amount of damage dealt by the aura or the total amount of damage, whichever is lower; spell resistance only affects the damage from the spell. A Paladin emitting an Aura of Devotion returns the damage taken by it from any successful melee attack done to a protected ally.

SHIELD OF RETRIBUTION, GREATER
Abjuration
Level: Anarch 3, Blackguard 3, Justiciar 3, Paladin 3

This spell works like shield of retribution, except that the spell also returns damage from ranged attacks.

SHIELD OF RETRIBUTION, LESSER
Abjuration
Level: Anarch 1, Blackguard 1, Justiciar 1, Paladin 1
Duration: 1 min./level
Spell Resistance: No

This spell works like shield of retribution, except that the damage dealt is the equivalent of a shield bash attack. Roll for damage as usual for a shield bash. The caster retains its shield bonus to Armor Class, however.

The three are essentially the same spell, but in a lesser and greater version. The lesser version of the spell counters the attack with a shield bash, which can be either weak or pretty powerful (depending on how you modify the equipped shield). The normal version returns a specific amount of damage (half of the received damage), but this damage is non-typed and thus can't be resisted. The greater version also applies against ranged attacks, and doesn't specify which kind (so as long as they aren't ranged touch attacks), so it can return damage from, say, a ballista. The lesser version comes as early as 3rd level, and the normal version covers a spell level that's usually weak for vanilla 3.5 Paladins, so it's a set of win-win spells.

Being designed for the Divine Champion as well, they get a very nice synergy effect with the auras, where the damage is further multiplied if you activate the Aura of Retribution, or the Aura of Deflection (because those two auras deal with damage redirection). I'll see if I can work other spells that buff Aura of Consecration, Aura of Courage and Aura of Vigor (for the Paladin), Aura of Cowardice, Aura of Covetous, Aura of Desecration, Aura of Vengeance (for the Blackguard), the other Sanctions (for the Justiciar) and the Auras of Happenstance, Disturbance, Ennui, Rowdiness and Unpredictability (for the Anarchs).

SHIELD OF VENGEANCE
Abjuration/Evocation
Level: Anarch 4, Blackguard 4, Justiciar 4, Paladin 4
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes (see text)

Upon finishing the prayer, the shield shines with a brilliant glow, with a burst of divine energy expanding outwards. Enemies within the area feel threatened, their every aggression returned with a feeling of menace.

This spell enchants the caster’s shield so that it shifts the aggression from the attack against all enemies in area. Whenever the caster takes successful damage from a melee attack, all of the damage taken by the caster is equally distributed amongst all enemies within a 15 ft. radius of the caster. Divide the damage by the number of enemy targets within area (round down to the nearest number); this determines the amount of damage dealt by the spell. The damage can be negated by a successful Fortitude save. This damage comes from divine origin and thus is not reduced by means of damage reduction or energy resistance, but creatures with spell resistance ignore the attack if the caster does not succeed on its spell resistance check.

This spell is not cumulative with shield of warding (see Spell Compendium for details on the spell) or any spell that might modify the shield in any way.

Focus: A light, heavy or tower shield, which must be worn for the duration of the spell.

Special: If using the Project Heretica classes, this spell creates a synergy effect with the divine champion’s auras. A Paladin, Blackguard or Justiciar emitting its Aura (or Sanction) of Retribution deals an additional amount of damage equal to the amount normally returned, regardless of the result of the Fortitude save. A Blackguard emitting its Aura of Cruelty deals damage to all creatures affected whenever attacked, regardless of the result of the Fortitude save.

Yep, this is like the other three spells, but turned into an AoE source of damage. This almost invites a lack of damage reduction or damage mitigation effects, so that you may get even more damage to redistribute. It also invites you to take damage, but since you get a large deal of hit points and healing abilities, it should be enough.

SHIELD OTHER
Abjuration
Level: Anarch 1, Blackguard 2, Cleric 2, Justiciar 1, Paladin 1, Protection 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

As the incantation is finished, the two rings glow with a pale light, a wisp binding both. Once the rings are worn, an ethereal shield projects from each ring, the wisp becoming a bond of pale light.

This spell wards the subject and creates a mystic connection between you and the subject so that some of its wounds are transferred to you. The subject gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC and a +1 resistance bonus on saves for every three caster levels.. Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including that dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. If the subject suffers a reduction of hit points from a lowered Constitution score, the reduction is not split with you because it is not hit point damage. When the spell ends, subsequent damage is no longer divided between the subject and you, but damage already split is not reassigned to the subject.

If you and the subject of the spell move out of range of each other, the spell ends.

Focus: A pair of platinum rings (worth at least 50 gp each) worn by both you and the warded creature.

Special: If using the Project Heretica classes, this spell creates a synergy effect with the divine champion’s auras. The damage reduction from the spell stacks with that of the Paladin’s Aura of Devotion, and if the Paladin or Justiciar emits its Aura (or Sanction) of Retribution, the effect activates if the attacker hits either the caster or its ward. A Justiciar using its Sanction of Interdiction deflects damage twice (the damage taken by the caster and that taken by its ward).

The last modified spell is, of course, the spell that pretty much promoted all these new spells and changes: Shield Other.

As a 2nd level spell, Shield Other is one of the best spells a Paladin can get. Lasts for hours, provides a moderate bonus, and most important of all, spreads the damage between two people, improving survival of both sides against single solid attacks.

The drawbacks? It only provides a piddling bonus (let's face it: what protection is offered by a single +1 deflection bonus to AC and a +1 resistance bonus to saves if you probably, by 8th level, already have a cloak of resistance and a ring of protection?), and in the case of Paladins, it's gained a wee bit too late (8th level minimum) and with a piss-poor CL.

So, while the class itself boosts Shield Other, it's important to notice that the effect still remains kinda weak. Thus, as a minor boost, the spell now provides a boosted amount of deflection AND resistance, making it a composite buff (extra AC, better saving throws and the main protective effect). As well, in order to make it very useful, it's now turned into a 1st level spell for all Divine Champion classes, making the spell available to them as early as 3rd level. This is a superb boost, considering that you can start protecting people from low levels, and right at the moment where you have access to the auras, which means you get synergy right from the get-go.

UNHOLY SHIELD
Abjuration/Transmutation [Evil]
Level: Blackguard 4

This spell works exactly as the holy shield spell, except the shield acts as a +5 unholy shield when used for a shield bash, and if you are attacked by a creature with a non-reach melee attack, you deal 2d6 points of negative energy damage.

UNHOLY SWORD
Evocation [Evil]
Level: Blackguard 4

This spell works exactly as the holy sword spell, except the weapon becomes a +5 unholy weapon, and the weapon projects a magic circle against good.

And, finally, evil versions of Holy Sword and Holy Shield. Unholy Shield's retributive damage doesn't help against undead creatures, but affects a wider variety of alignments (as in, ALL alignments). It's weird that there are no equivalents to Holy Sword aside from Lawful Sword, so this should be fair to Blackguards.

[Cieyrin]

Interesting, I approve. The only thing I see mentioned but unseen is Lawful Sword, which could probably use the buff of Holy Sword, unless you wanted to make it opposite the Anarch's Prismatic Sword. Which could be neat but I'm not sure how to opposite colors.

[T.G. Oskar]

Interesting, I approve. The only thing I see mentioned but unseen is Lawful Sword, which could probably use the buff of Holy Sword, unless you wanted to make it opposite the Anarch's Prismatic Sword. Which could be neat but I'm not sure how to opposite colors.

Well, I'll have to check it up again, but the intention is that Lawful Sword is basically the equivalent to Holy Sword, and there should be a Lawful Shield as well (or something along the lines for Justiciar). In fact, Justiciar and Anarchs should have exclusive spells of their own.

--

That said, I believe it's time to address something. I rarely do this, but I feel this has gone a wee bit too far. In fact, this goes directly to one poster, and it's mostly a clarification of a position said poster has assumed in various other Paladin 'brew threads, when I've invited discussion here.

toapat, you've mentioned that the Paladin as presented in Project Heretica suffers of a specific problem, and that is shoehorning the class into tanking and specifically sword & board. I've mentioned this twice: if you have such concerns about my work, please, mention it here. I'm always eager to answer and deal with any comment. In fact, I recall about 5-7 months ago doing exactly that with you, and nowhere do I see that complaint about shoe-horning. It leads me to think that, during those few months, your perception about the Paladin has changed. That's completely fair.

However...several times I've seen how you've started decrying the work of others, because they don't seem to comply to a specific design. Now, if I were to say I haven't done so, that'd be relying on my memory and it can betray me, so I won't say I haven't done so before (nor that I will, because I'll never know when I will); however, I find it a bit distasteful to give examples of particular 'brews that you find lacking and short of that perfect design you seek for the Paladin (or any other class, by the way). There's a proper way to mention it: remove the specific examples, turn them a bit more generalized, and you'll aid people who wish to do work on the Paladin while respecting the work that has come before. This is important because you never know when that 'brewer will do a change. jiriku's work on the Monk is respected because of its simplicity, and even if I don't agree with his philosophy, I don't take to bash him because he's popular or anything, and I've even posted on his thread to further the discussion and perhaps point things he might have missed. So far, I've seen that attitude in three threads, and people have pointed this out politely.

Now, to the concern proper: shoehorning.

Perhaps I might have my vices, but I don't find the class completely inclined to tanking and/or sword 'n board. Sure, it does that very well: that's the intention of the class, because I perceive the Paladin as a tank first and foremost, and particularly one that does a rare form of tanking (namely, damage redirection: think Shield Other, Glory of the Martyr, Empathic Feedback, Share Pain, the Amulet of Retribution, and other such effects). However, I find the class does other things well: a Strength-focused Paladin will have very dangerous smite effects and will naturally incline towards a two-hander, which can compensate what you'd otherwise get from Charisma (particularly if you add spells to boot), and the retributive forms of damage (Divine Punishment, Divine Deterrence, aura of Retribution) make for a very solid damage dealer when Strength is emphasized. Shields improve the effects of auras; note that as a complement and not as a necessary thing to have. Note also that the class still has Turn Undead (which is neither a tanking ability nor requires a shield), which is slightly better as the Paladin has better Charisma and its power is equal to that of a Cleric, and it still has Lay on Hands (which is definitely one of the best methods of healing, since while it lacks range and speed, it more than compensates in sheer amount of healing potential). Of the switchable auras, only one or two (Devotion and Retribution) could count as "tanking" feats, since Vigor buffs healing (explain how healing is a part of tanking, other than "it improves survival", because that means there's no healer class, but rather a "heal-tank"), Consecration is the go-to aura when fighting against undead and evil creatures, and Courage provides a nicer bonus to those under a fear effect, but it only offers moderate protection from fear.

One of the things I've heard you mention a lot is how people seem to underestimate Paladin spellcasting. I dunno, but the focus of Divine Champion spellcasting in Project Heretica takes advantage of those few awesome spells Paladins get, and modifies that list a bit further. If that STILL underestimates the spellcasting potential of the Paladin (which is limited at best, given that it doesn't improve as it should until you reach 14th level (in 3.5; PF makes it a bit more useful at 11th/12th level but lacks the spells from the Spell Compendium). Adding the Cleric spell list to the Paladin spell list is, IMO, a very elegant method to improve Paladin spellcasting. Perhaps it could be improved a bit more, adding more spell slots at earlier levels (removing the 0 spells at earlier levels); there are ways to handle it without improving the amount of spell slots to Duskblade or Bard degrees. I reckon we agree on that part. Now, if their spellcasting is pretty good (the only thing that could be perceived as a nerf is the switch from prepared to spontaneous), which by itself could be enough to improve the class one tier, why you still consider it a (high) Tier 5 that shoehorns you into tanking, exactly? One thing I don't agree with you is how you feel that they need to have Sword of the Arcane Order and Battle Blessing from the get-go, when the solution could lie elsewhere (such as, say, making full spellcasters' casting times slower?).

Another thing I've noticed is that your critique focuses exclusively on the Paladin class: indeed, while I've mentioned repetitively that the Project encompasses much more than the Paladin retooling, pretty much everybody (save a few: Cieyrin comes to mind, and so does Gareth, Grod and Nine) just focuses on the Paladin and ignores the Blackguard, the Anarch, the Justiciar, the ACFs, the spells, the Holy Avengers, the Armor Suits of Virtue, the PrCs and the lesser attempts to provide patches and fixes that don't involve a full retooling. Considering all four use the same chassis, it wouldn't be easy to collapse all four of the PBAJ classes into a single one, ignore alignment requirements and choose exactly what you wish to play. Is the Blackguard focused exclusively on tanking and shoehorned into sword 'n board? Is the Justiciar? Is the Anarch? If you remove Standing Before Adversity for Divine Spirit, does it stop being less of a tank and more of a buffer? If you replace SBA for the Mount, does the class stop being a tank? Many of the times I've seen your fixes, they always include Divine Spirit, so I know very well you prefer that as a class feature: the Project Heretica Paladin doesn't include it as an actual class feature, but it allows you to replace another. Sword of the Arcane Order and Battle Blessing are available to the Paladin.

But then again, I can't deliver the proper answer unless you explain in clearer terms what exactly you feel is the problem; exactly how the Project Heretica Paladin (or indeed, the project as a whole) does not follow (I'd say "how it violates") the design paradigm you ascribe to. I'm always open to discussion, because I always find that the product could be improved. Right now, I'm satisfied. I recall you mentioned, and I'll quote you directly:


Build it the way you want it Oskar.

...and I recall I mentioned I was right at the middle: always accepting ideas, but building it the way I liked it. I've always tried to help people in that way: respecting their work as much as I can, being a bit harsh at times but trying always to think outside the box and provide ideas on how to buff their already-existing proposals without making them blatant copies of mine. Some have taken a lot of ideas from my work, and I like that (so as long as they mention it), just as I'm sure people are appalled when their work is used as basis for those of others, or that find inspiration in their work to make their own. I don't think people find it inspiring when (and this is mostly how I perceive all of this) you speak of the flaws of others behind them, without at least trying to speak that with them directly. I believe I'm entitled to defend my work to the last, because otherwise I wouldn't post my work for others to critique.

Now, I'd like this rant to end in a positive manner. Reporting your posts would be disrespectful to your opinion, so I've refrained from doing so because I find that there's a thread and a topic to handle that (and also, because despite the disagreements, I find it's reasonable advice, so it'd be unfair to ask a mod to erase what's basically advice peppered with some bias). I've taken the initiative to speak about this, so I'd like to see how these 5-7 months have changed your perception, the basis of that design paradigm that you find is important for any and all Paladin 'brews that you find most of the prolific 'brewers have missed, and thus should be avoided (I mean, you mentioned Seerow's version, which was done in conjunction with OW4 several years ago, and its one of the best known fixes), and how applying it can improve my work. Otherwise, your statements will sound less authoritative and will adopt a tone of "holier-than-thou" that might annoy others.

[GunbladeKnight]

I love your classes (even if I would make my own minor tweaks on them), and usually point to yours first when suggesting homebrews/fixes, and your Paladin and subsequent ones are no exception.

One thing I can suggest is the aligned strike ability from the Knight of the Sacred Seal in the ToM. It would go well around level 7 or 8, but probably not any higher than 12.

[toapat]

*snip*

I try to stay away from giving a specific role to a class if it isnt intended to be, The paladin i wrote to specifically be Fold Wizard in Half was, well, To fold Wizards in half. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256612) I dont believe i actually put mechanical support into paladin itself for a specific combat style, but i will say, the Anti-Spellcaster Warcraft original style fluff paladin was bad. There were ideas behind it, but not the implementation. I Acknowledge that there were problems of too many things going on in that class, and so i quickly replaced it with a more recent brew, which i will cover in the next paragraph.

I have admitted several times in the past few weeks that i, personally, am extremely bad on the end of making paladin spellcasting relevant. Ive known fully well since before my last homebrew that SotAO has been a longterm copout ive been using (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14104896&postcount=1). The good paladin spells, which there is at least a reasonable handful of, are extremely good, and typically people dont realize that as Printed (If they even know the spell exists), Glory of the Martyr is actually a 7-8th level spell. Divine Sacrifice may be 3rd level.

The reason my criticism doesnt extend to the other classes, is simply i havent read your other classes. The criticsim for your Paladin is specifically that you mechanically put support behind a specific combat style, which, while i do not entirely agree with the logic of JaronK, i get certain logic, such as that that puts knight and healer at Tier 5: if a class contains significant mechanical support is of one specific sub-mechanic, then there is a problem. I may be overestimating the actual weight of those mechanics though.

As i had attempted to say at the top, apparently in a different sleep depraved state, i think adding a huge number of abilities is actually, in a way, a trap people dont actually realize they write themselves into when homebrewing. I certainly did with both Templar attempt 2+ Warcraft Paladin.

[T.G. Oskar]

I have admitted several times in the past few weeks that i, personally, am extremely bad on the end of making paladin spellcasting relevant. Ive known fully well since before my last homebrew that SotAO has been a longterm copout ive been using (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14104896&postcount=1). The good paladin spells, which there is at least a reasonable handful of, are extremely good, and typically people dont realize that as Printed (If they even know the spell exists), Glory of the Martyr is actually a 7-8th level spell. Divine Sacrifice may be 3rd level.

I've seen a lot of mention about Glory of the Martyr being a 7th-8th level spell, but to be quite frank, it doesn't reach any more than 6th level. I'm dead serious about it.

Note the effects: basically, you get the effect of Shield Other en masse, which often implies a spell 3-4 levels higher (for example: Bear's Endurance is a 2nd level spell, Mass Bear's Endurance is a 6th level spell; likewise, Conviction from Spell Compendium is a 1st level spell, whereas Mass Conviction is a 4th level spell). In fact, one of the earliest Mass spells (Mass Aid) is only two levels higher. The other effect is basically a Mass Cure Light Wounds spell in case the character dies, which is a 5th level spell effect placed as a contingency.

Had a Cleric gained access to Glory of the Martyr, the spell would have been of higher level, but nowhere near 7th or 8th level. At most, the spell would have been 6th level, as it's the normal ballpark for a mass spell based off a 2nd level spell, and how you have a 5th level spell placed in Contingency (which is by itself a 6th level spell). So that's two 6th level spells (or at least, one 6th level equivalent spell and an actual 6th level spell) plus a 5th level spell. Compare it to Holy Aura, which grants the effect of a double-strength Magic Circle against Evil PLUS spell resistance PLUS a retributive effect.

The notion you introduce is true, but exaggerate at best: 1st level Paladin spells are often equal to 1st level Cleric spells and perhaps a 2nd level spell, 2nd level Paladin spells compare to 2nd-3rd level Cleric spells, 3rd level Paladin spells compare to 3rd-5th level Paladin spells, and 4th level Paladin spells compare to 4th-6th level Paladin spells. However, that's not exactly the best way to handle it: instead, attempt to handle the spell on a per-spell basis. This is a reason why Dispel Magic is best considered a 1st-2nd level Paladin spell: because Paladins get 1st level spells at 3rd-4th level, and 2nd level spells at 7th-8th, which is where Dispel Magic becomes effective. Give it at spell level 3rd and it becomes useless (because your dispel check is limited to a +10 bonus, while a spellcaster of equal level already has a CL of 11th). Thus, Dispel Magic sucks as a 3rd level Paladin spell, has little worth as a 2nd level spell (it's worthwhile for at least 3 levels), and works well as a 1st level spell. It's a 3rd level Cleric spell, just to notice, whereas using your approximations, Dispel Magic should only be a 2nd level Paladin spell. Likewise, the Aid spell doesn't work well as a 2nd level Paladin spell, as its effect stops being relevant at around 5th level or so, which is still two levels behind when Paladin gets 2nd level spells. Note that the fix used by many people involve lowering the acquisition of spells a few levels earlier, and granting them higher level spells where they can get access to 6th and 7th level spells.

Thing is: the few spells that Paladins get that are pretty relevant? Gained at 14th level, and of those, you get only a bare few. So that means 13 levels of spellcasting without inherent worth, if you're going with the basic 3.5/PF paladin spellcasting, because many of the spells you treat as gems are often 3rd/4th level. Not everybody will notice this because by that level, the Paladin is focusing on something else or you retire the character for something better (such as, say, getting levels of Cleric and then dipping Prestige Paladin for the few rockin' spells that Paladins get, then get into ANOTHER PrC which grants increased spellcasting ability and features you might like, such as Ruby Knight Vindicator, Ordained Champion, Fist of Raziel and others).


The reason my criticism doesnt extend to the other classes, is simply i havent read your other classes. The criticsim for your Paladin is specifically that you mechanically put support behind a specific combat style, which, while i do not entirely agree with the logic of JaronK, i get certain logic, such as that that puts knight and healer at Tier 5: if a class contains significant mechanical support is of one specific sub-mechanic, then there is a problem. I may be overestimating the actual weight of those mechanics though.

Here's my main point of conflict. Exactly WHY you reach this conclusion? I'd like to see the steps that make you think my character's too focused on a "sub-mechanic", without considering that tanking might be a viable primary mechanic, that damage redirection as a method of tanking is a viable mechanic at all, or that there's several other things aside from tanking that the Paladin can do and that it can do well, which should be the hallmark of tier 3.

Then again, not everybody agrees with Jaron's proposal. I'd probably accept it if someone who wasn't familiar with my class would run it through a Same Game Test (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Dungeons_and_Dragons_Wiki:The_Same_Game_Test) and see if it fulfills the requirements for High category, but running it with several different builds. Since "High" category roughly corresponds to tier 3, that'd be a fair comparison. If we're going for a forum-approved Tier arbiter (such as Morph), the Paladin falls right around borderline Tier 3-4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13355459&postcount=4), which is less than the target Tier I want it to, but higher than the base. Just fiddling with the spell list and spell slots should aim it towards Tier 4, IMO.

As I've seen it, the amount of bias behind your opinion (which is something natural, or else it wouldn't be an opinion at all) lacks enough data that could make it an informed opinion. Were it a bit more informed, it could be sustained (no less of an opinion, but one that could be defended); right now, your opinion seems a bit too heavy-handed and arbitrary, and it's starting to cause conflict, particularly when you're using the same examples over and over, and the vague (at least, how I perceive it) answer when reasoning is sought at. If, for example, you were to explain why tanking is a poor mechanic (with support behind that statement), that could be a good starting point: in that way, there could be a few points in which we might agree (or perhaps points where we agree, but for one reason or another we may seem to disagree), and that could serve as further support for any of the positions.

[toapat]

Exactly WHY you reach this conclusion?

the Divine Aura and the Protector's Might class features both give incentive to use a shield over other strategies. They also come at level 2+3 respectively

asto no low level paladin spells worth using: Divine Sacrifice and Rhino rush are level 1. I can also see the practical purpose of Silverbeard, Angel Skin, like Holy Sword, would be great if it had a duration better then Round/Level (or paladin had better caster level).

Revenance deserves an honorable mention amoung paladin spells because is also a 4th level cleric spell.

[T.G. Oskar]

the Divine Aura and the Protector's Might class features both give incentive to use a shield over other strategies. They also come at level 2+3 respectively

Just a slight question: does a buckler count as a shield? If so, the most effective way to work a Paladin is to get the best two-handed weapon around, wield a buckler, and eat the -1 to attack rolls while adding Cha to damage (plus 1.5 times your Strength) AND get the buckler's enhancement bonus to benefit all auras, and still get the best benefit from Power Attack. Wielding a buckler certainly doesn't count as "sword 'n board", and in fact many of the things that boost shields require shield bashes, WHICH cannot be done with bucklers. I don't see how that exactly promotes S'nB or tanking, particularly since a buckler nets you all the benefits of both 2H Fighting and the stuff that should be limited to Sword 'n Boarders. In fact, this wasn't intentional, as the idea was to promote wielding shields (instead of using Animated Shields), but given that bucklers are shields nonetheless, they are fair play. Bucklers aren't fit for sword 'n board because most of the feats that require shields often require making a shield bash, which is impossible when wielding a buckler (or a tower shield).


asto no low level paladin spells worth using: Divine Sacrifice and Rhino rush are level 1. I can also see the practical purpose of Silverbeard, Angel Skin, like Holy Sword, would be great if it had a duration better then Round/Level (or paladin had better caster level).

Revenance deserves an honorable mention amoung paladin spells because is also a 4th level cleric spell.

That's too small a list.

1st: Deafening Clang (gets better the higher your attack bonus, the more attacks per round you get and the better chances to make full attacks), Divine Favor (a +3 to damage might be weak, but a +3 to attack rolls can compensate for the loss from Power Attack), Divine Sacrifice (much like Deafening Clang, except you sacrifice HP for damage), Lesser Restoration, Protection from Evil (best defense against mind-affecting effects).
2nd: Flame of Faith (it's Flaming Burst, so against enemies resistant to fire it's worthless, but against creatures vulnerable to cold, or if wielding a keen scimitar, you net quite a bit of damage), Resist Energy, Shield of Warding (requires a shield, but nets you a better sacred bonus to AC than Silverbeard), Shield Other, Strength of Stone (lasts for 1 round, but it's a +8 bonus to Strength; awesome for wands)
3rd: Find the Gap (the first attack is a touch attack, which is the perfect way to spend all your BAB on Power Attack and then get Leap Attack), Greater Magic Weapon (lasts for quite some time), Holy Storm (requires a vial of holy water, but it's an area of effect spell that deals decent damage per round), Righteous Fury (sacred bonus to Strength for minutes/level)

That goes without mentioning 4th level spells, or spells other than those in the PHB and the Spell Compendium (such as, say, Mark of Doom against hydras and people that do multiple attacks, which is on the PHB II). And that's just going for spells on the 3.5 Paladin spell list.

I didn't made the improvement to the Paladin's spell list without knowing my stuff. I took pretty much all spells the Paladin has access to naturally and gauged them in terms of how useful they are (not very useful, mildly useful, better as a wand or scroll, must-have on your slots), and I'd love to expand upon that, but that doesn't mean I haven't done my research on Paladin spellcasting before working on how the spells should be adjusted. When I mention how low-level spells aren't as useful as higher-level ones, it's because the proportion of good spells to not-as-useful spells is much lower at earlier levels than at higher ones, so you'll tend to prepare the same spells more often than not.

[toapat]

That's too small a list.

Buckler: Yes.

Although going back and checking, unless you explicitly left it so, you cant smite with archery. (*long archery commentary not relevant to this topic*)

What i Listed: I was going off of paladin exclusives, otherwise i would have noted Holy Storm, Axiomatic storm, pretty much every buff at level 1, and would have some mentions at 2nd level.
Note: Silverbeard (AC bonus) can stack with Shield of Warding (Reflex saves). I may be looking at different instances of the spells from you though.

as i said, i was lazy in including SotAO as a class feature, and i really should at some point do the work to even the field between paladin spells for mine

Edit: Really, i only ever considered SotAO for haste and Celerity.

[T.G. Oskar]

Although going back and checking, unless you explicitly left it so, you cant smite with archery. (*long archery commentary not relevant to this topic*)

Yes and no.

Yes: it's not part of the main Smite Evil/Smite Good/Verdict/Entropic Strike ability.

No: it's part of the Ranged Smite ACF, which can replace one of the selections you can make at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th levels.


ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURE: Ranged Smite
The power of a divine warrior's faith usually manifests through their weapon. Some divine warriors' smiting abilities aren't as strong or varied, but they have a better weapon at their arsenal; range.
Level: Paladin, blackguard, anarch or justiciar 5th, 10th, 15th or 20th
Replaces: Smite evil, smite good, verdict or entropic strike (see below)
Benefit: At 5th level, or at any level you may choose a new smite ability, you may instead choose to learn how to extend the range of your known smite abilities.

When choosing this option, you gain the ability to make smites with any thrown or projectile weapon. The smite is treated by all means as if it were a normal smite, except the range increases to the range of the weapon. In the case of thrown weapons, you may throw your weapon up to a distance equal to the range of your divine aura, fiendish aura, sanction or entropic aura, but only when making the smite.

At 15th level, you may choose to improve your ranged smites. You can make a ranged smite with your melee weapon, but only up to a distance equal to the range of your aura. When using your melee weapon to make the attack, you deal damage as if the enemy was within reach of your weapon, but you don't add any extra damage from your weapon special qualities (except for the weapon's enhancement bonus).

Relevant parts bolded AND italized (those that are merely bolded are part of the format).

Since all Divine Champions could take advantage of it, and since Smite Evil is nonetheless identical to its 3.5 counterpart, there's three ways to deal with it (ACF, feat, racial substitution level).


What i Listed: I was going off of paladin exclusives, otherwise i would have noted Holy Storm, Axiomatic storm, pretty much every buff at level 1, and would have some mentions at 2nd level.
Note: Silverbeard (AC bonus) can stack with Shield of Warding (Reflex saves). I may be looking at different instances of the spells from you though.

as i said, i was lazy in including SotAO as a class feature, and i really should at some point do the work to even the field between paladin spells for mine

Edit: Really, i only ever considered SotAO for haste and Celerity.

Deafening Clang is Paladin-exclusive. It's also innately swift, so no need for Battle Blessing on that one. Likewise for Strength of Stone. Both are very nice spells to have, though much better if you find them as wands (or, in the rare case, if you build them as wands).

Silverbeard and Shield of Warding doesn't stack, if using the Spell Compendium versions. Both Silverbeard and Shield of Warding offer sacred bonuses to AC, which means they overlap: by the time Shield of Warding offers a +2 sacred bonus, it eclipses the effect of Silverbeard.

Also: if you really considered SotAO for Haste and Celerity, you've missed on the wealth of spells you can acquire by those means. Enlarge Person is a formidable spell, particularly more since you innately don't get Righteous Might (it's one of the main additions of 'brewers when altering spell lists). Glitterdust/Stinking Cloud/Web remain useful at high levels, and so does Evard's Black Tentacles (it's a 4th level spell), particularly if you increase the Paladin's CL. However, it's best to keep it as an option than add it innately, because it's harder for Paladins to exploit it as the Mystic Ranger does, and further pushes for a "Mystic Paladin" variant which is one of the most common fixes around.

[toapat]

Also: if you really considered SotAO for Haste and Celerity, you've missed on the wealth of spells you can acquire by those means. Enlarge Person is a formidable spell, particularly more since you innately don't get Righteous Might (it's one of the main additions of 'brewers when altering spell lists). Glitterdust/Stinking Cloud/Web remain useful at high levels, and so does Evard's Black Tentacles (it's a 4th level spell), particularly if you increase the Paladin's CL. However, it's best to keep it as an option than add it innately, because it's harder for Paladins to exploit it as the Mystic Ranger does, and further pushes for a "Mystic Paladin" variant which is one of the most common fixes around.

1: Fair enough

2: I was using a website we cant link to for references, the version of both those spells on there are non-conflicting, as i said, probably looking at different versions. which i guess we were.

3: personal bias, yes i knew about some of the other buffs. I think save or Sucks really fall outside of the realm of realistic application of paladin spells.

[T.G. Oskar]

Just so you know, being the project to which I've devoted most of my effort, I still produce a lot for it, even when I'm working on other projects.

Take this, for example. I've been going through an extensive review of all SRD Magic items (including those from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, even if they overlap with the Magic Item Compendium, but no magic items from the MIC proper), and I'm right at the rings (after dealing with the weapons, armor, shields, and most of the clothing-based wondrous items, including placing Ioun Stones separately). The Ring of Friend Shield was kind of weird: it was sold in pairs, and the whole effort was to allow two people to cast Shield Other on themselves. The benefits include no limit on duration and range, which is phenomenal, but they felt...bland. They were one of the items that were extensively retooled, and that ring became this little baby (as usual, MIC format):

RING OF THE BODYGUARD
Price (Item Level): 40,000 gp (17th)
Body Slot: Ring
Caster Level: 10th
Aura: Moderate (DC 20); abjuration
Activation: -- and standard (command)
Weight: --
This thick platinum band has protective glyphs around the edges, which spell the phrase “united, we stand undying”. A red ruby and some small diamonds among the rim seem lifeless, but shine in presence of certain rings.
The ring of the bodyguard, on its own, provides no protection and may seem even useless. However, in the presence of other rings of the bodyguard (or a ring enchanted with the shield other spell), its gems shine, resonating with the spell’s power. To unlock its powers, the wearer of a ring of the bodyguard must attune with another, generally by having the rings in close contact (usually for 24 hours, in a bag). Once a ring is attuned, it remains attuned to all other rings until the same ritual is made. Removing a ring’s attunement requires having the ring be unworn for at least 24 hours, upon which the contact with all other rings are lost; if the ring is worn by a dead creature, it is treated as unworn for this same purpose.

Once attuned, the wearer of a ring of the bodyguard gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC and a +1 resistance bonus to saving throws; these effects are always active until the ring is no longer attuned. Furthermore, as a standard action, the wearer of a ring of the bodyguard may choose to take half of the damage of another creature wearing a ring attuned to the wearer’s own, as per the shield other spell but with no effect on its duration and with no limit on range (so as long as they’re on the same plane). This effect can be activated or deactivated as an immediate action if one of the attuned ringwearer’s hit points fall under half of its maximum amount. Once this ability is active, other wearers of attuned rings cannot affect the wearer or its warden.

This ring, if used as a focus for the shield other or glory of the martyr (BoED; also, see above), provides greater properties. The wearer’s bonus on deflection and resistance bonuses increases by 1 for each character beside itself under the effect of these spells, and the wearer may choose to absorb all the damage from the attack, instead of merely half the damage. If two or more rings of the bodyguard are attuned by these means, the wearer can use any healing effect with a range of touch on any creature, regardless of its range (so as long as they’re on the same plane).

Special: Because of its affinity towards protection, attempting to improve the ring's deflection bonus to AC or resistance bonus to saving throws costs only half the usual fee (in both gold and experience). Thus, improving the deflection bonus to AC of the ring of the bodyguard from a +1 to a +2 would cost 3,000 gp (if done by an NPC crafter; if done by the wearer or a PC crafter, the cost is instead 1,500 gp) instead of 6,000 gp (the difference between 2,000 gp and 8,000 gp).

Note: if the wearer is a paladin using the Project Heretica variant, the ring of the bodyguard gains a further benefit so as long as the wearer projects an aura of devotion or aura of retribution. If the wearer projects an aura of devotion, the wearer absorbs an amount of damage equal to half the damage taken by the warded creature plus the amount normally absorbed by its aura of devotion, regardless of the distance, when the wearer activates the ring’s shield other ability. If the wearer projects an aura of retribution, the warded creature is treated as the wearer for purposes of activating the retributive effect, regardless of the distance (in effect, the warded creature is treated as if projecting an aura of retribution, as if it were the wearer). This effect also works with the justiciar’s interdiction and retribution sanctions, applying the effects of the auras of devotion and retribution, respectively.

Prerequisites: Forge Ring; shield other or the aura of devotion class feature
Cost to Create: 20,000 gp, 1600 xp

As you can see, it provides the same effect of a ring of force shield, except that you get a permanent deflection bonus to AC and resistance bonus to saving throws if the ring's attuned (thus, you can save the shoulder and torso slots for other things). The Shield Other effect was left pretty much as-is, with no changes whatsoever; however, I decided to allow the rings to be used as the focus for the actual Shield Other (or Glory of the Martyr) spells, this further improving the bonus. The effect may not seem that much when dealing with, say, the improved versions of Shield Other I placed above, but it works wonders with the basic Shield Other spell. With attuned rings, the effect becomes even better, because it makes healing useful; a cleric can heal a paladin taking damage for it from a mile away, without problems.

There's another slight spoiler up there, and that's the affinity-based reductions. As you can see, the ring of the bodyguard has a strong affinity to protection spells, so improving their deflection or resistance bonuses becomes much, much easier, because the cost is essentially halved. Thus, you can make the ring provide a +5 deflection bonus to AC and a +5 resistance bonus to all saving throws for less cost that it would take to equip a ring of protection and a cloak of resistance of the same kind.

Because of the many improvements, the cost is more than one-and-a-half times higher than a base ring of friend shield, but because those were always sold (or found) in pairs, that means they get somewhat less expensive than the normal ones. I gauged the cost by determining the base cost of a permanent command-based item (level 2 spell x CL 10th x 1,800 gp), added half the cost of +1 deflection bonus to AC (1,000 gp) and +1 resistance bonus to all saves (+500 gp), and the rest was just to drive it into a nice multiple of 10, if we divided by a 1000 first. As it stands, it won't appear until much, MUCH later in the game, but when it does, you'll make sure to boost it and give it to all your allies, hopefully.

Oh yeah, and...of course, Paladins and Justiciars gain some serious benefit from it, mostly from their auras. Mostly the reason I posted it here.

So: questions? Comments? Better, or worse? The Price is Right, something Bunko would definitely recommend, or way too expensive for what it provides? Personally, I find the crafting rules in the DMG a bit too heavy-handed, and definitely not to my liking: I personally hate the idea that only spellcasters are allowed to create magic items, that dwarves can't do so unless they're a specific race (Midgard Dwarf) or part of a specific PrC (Ironsoul Forgemaster), and that even then, when you have a way to access Craft Magic Arms and Armor or a similar trait, you STILL have to depend on a spellcaster to enchant it. The residuum thing from 4e was nice, but it was digested so much that it makes no sense; why not, say, make it so that you got stuff like, say, animal fangs, or the blood of a fiend, and apply the residuum abstraction to that fluff as part of your treasure allotment? It could even replace XP when crafting, though not exactly gold, and it would allow anyone to craft. Then again, with the way professions are handled in D&D...

[AttilaTheGeek]

I really like it! One nitpick, though:


Lay on Hands (Su): At 7th level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Once per encounter, the Paladin may heal an amount of damage equal to 5 plus her class level times her Charisma modifier (minimum of 1)

Does this mean (5 + class) * CHA, or 5+ (class * CHA)? For example, if I have a 10th-level paladin with a Charisma modifier of +6, does Lay on Hands heal for (5+10)*6 = 90 hit points, or 5+(10*6) = 65 hit points? As the Charisma modifier increases, it makes a big difference.

If it's the first, more powerful option, I'd reword it to to either "her Charisma modifier times 5 plus her class level" or "her Charisma modifier times five plus her Charisma modifier times her class level" if you want to be super unambiguous. If it's the second, then I'd leave it as is with the stipulation "Her Charisma modifier is not multiplied by five."

[T.G. Oskar]

I really like it! One nitpick, though:

Does this mean (5 + class) * CHA, or 5+ (class * CHA)? For example, if I have a 10th-level paladin with a Charisma modifier of +6, does Lay on Hands heal for (5+10)*6 = 90 hit points, or 5+(10*6) = 65 hit points? As the Charisma modifier increases, it makes a big difference.

If it's the first, more powerful option, I'd reword it to to either "her Charisma modifier times 5 plus her class level" or "her Charisma modifier times five plus her Charisma modifier times her class level" if you want to be super unambiguous. If it's the second, then I'd leave it as is with the stipulation "Her Charisma modifier is not multiplied by five."

It's the first interpretation. Thing is, order of operations is somewhat hard to describe in words.

The best way to express the result unambiguously, without too much wording, would be "the Paladin may heal an amount of damage equal to 5 plus her class level. multiplied by her Charisma modifier", as it suggests the player must first calculate the sum of five plus its class level, and then multiply the result by the Charisma modifier.

Also: the first interpretation generally has wider boundaries than the second.

The first table relates to the first interpretation:


Charisma/Level
+1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7

+n


7th
12
24
36
48
60
72
84

(12 x n)


10th
15
30
45
60
75
90
105

(15 x n)


13th
18
36
54
72
90
72
126

(18 x n)


16th
21
42
63
84
105
126
147

(21 x n)


19th
24
48
72
96
120
144
168

(24 x n)



...while the second table details the second interpreation


Charisma/Level
+1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7

+n


7th
35
42
49
56
63
70
77

7 x(5+n)


10th
50
60
70
80
90
100
110

10 x(5+n)


13th
65
78
91
104
117
130
143

13 x(5+n)


16th
80
96
112
128
114
160
176

16 x(5+n)


19th
95
114
133
152
171
190
209

19 x(5+n)



As you can see, both interpretations increase linearly. The first grows better as more Charisma is applied, whereas the second gets better just by gaining more levels. The first interpretation, on the other hand has lower beginning and end numbers than the second one, and to have the first interpretation give consistently better numbers than the second, Charisma has to grow almost equally to class levels (roughly 2 points of Charisma for every 3 class levels, based on the tendencies).

That said, there IS a strong argument for the second interpretation, which has higher boundaries than the first and seems less volatile to Charisma increases than the first one, and is pretty consistent with Heal. On the other hand, that interpretation can, with a +6 to Charisma, represent basically half of a Heal spell usable per encounter, which can be spread to various allies.

[GunbladeKnight]

Actually, the easiest way to word it as to avoid confusion is "her charisma modifier times the sum of 5 plus her class levels".

I also noticed you didn't specify an action type for Lay on Hands or Divine Deterrence in your paladin. Lay on Hands seems like it would be a standard since it requires a melee touch attack. Divine Deterrence I can see as an immediate. Also, is Divine Deterrence an instantaneous effect (meaning only useful against a single spell), or does it last until the end of the normal aura's duration?

[T.G. Oskar]

Actually, the easiest way to word it as to avoid confusion is "her charisma modifier times the sum of 5 plus her class levels".

Hmm...that, too. Good way to point it out. Thing is, I'll have to see whether it's better to use Attila's alternative interpretation, as the lower and upper boundaries are better, yet they're tighter than the current one.


I also noticed you didn't specify an action type for Lay on Hands or Divine Deterrence in your paladin. Lay on Hands seems like it would be a standard since it requires a melee touch attack. Divine Deterrence I can see as an immediate. Also, is Divine Deterrence an instantaneous effect (meaning only useful against a single spell), or does it last until the end of the normal aura's duration?

Lay on Hands is a standard action, as usual. It's odd I didn't mention it.

Divine Deterrence, on the other hand, is continuous. It doesn't affect just one spell; it affects ALL spells cast within the aura, so as long as they're done by opponents; it's mostly the reason why you drop the basic effect of your aura. If it was just an immediate action against one spell, it would be pretty ineffective; the idea was that Divine Deterrence would be one of the many auras you could choose from, but for what it offers, it would be a must-have. Thus, I decided to give it for free, mostly because the worst enemies in game (and to an extent, some of the worst evil opponents the Paladin will face) are spellcasters. Mixing melee and spell makes the Paladin consider which effect to apply, particularly if both hit hard.

[T.G. Oskar]

Alright, gentlemen: it's been more than a year since I've posted anything in here, but the changes in the forums means all the tables went haywire. For what it's worth, I'll attempt to make fixing the tables here priority over everything else, though it'll take some time.

That said, you may have noticed from my sig that I made a comprehensive guide to the Pathfinder Paladin. Now, normally I don't like to do shameless self-promotion, but I do it now because of one reason: it gave me deep insight on how the Pathfinder Paladin works (and by extension, the Antipaladin), with all its nooks and crannies. And, naturally, this has given me something to think regarding the Paladin as-is.

There's another reason why I write this: maybe it's pride or haughtiness, but this is what I consider my Magnum Opus, because I really, REALLY like Paladins. My attempt was to take them to Tier 3/High Balance level, and while for the most part I achieved the latter, the "borderline" rating of the former has me a bit worried. Looking deeply at the Pathfinder Paladin and some extended testing of the Paladin class (the crown jewel, so to speak, of the PBAJ classes), I decided to tweak some things a bit, but I'd like to hear some opinions about it.

Here's the thing: after a while, I agree with others that Divine Grace is gained TOO late. 11th level is way over its head. I still don't like it as a 2nd level class feature, particularly since that level is loaded (and specifically because of Protector's Might, which is a similar class feature), but I've considered reducing it to 8th level, to complement Mettle (that way you get much of what made the 2nd level of Paladin interesting: two great class features). At 8th level it should be right in the mid-level, and would insinuate a natural progression towards adding Charisma to certain class features. Likewise, the way Lay on Hands works in PF, particularly as a self-healing (and thus life-extending) mechanic, while somewhat selfish, is creative. I don't intend returning the class feature to 2nd level as with the 3.5 Paladin, but I do intend to see if it's worthwhile to lower its level a bit. This would leave two "holes" (dead levels) at 7th level and 11th level, even though those are levels where they gain new spell levels (2nd and 3rd, respectively), which would imply new class features. One of the things I plan to do is to reduce a portion of Unyielding Resolve (the extended negative hit point range) to 11th level and keep something at 18th level that's comparable to the Devoted Spirit stance of Immortal Fortitude and the Knight's Loyal Beyond Death class feature.

To put it simply:
Would you agree to reduce Divine Grace to 8th level, alongside Mettle?
Would you agree to reduce the level of Lay on Hands? If true, to which level?
Would you agree to add a caveat to Lay on Hands where it can be used as a swift action on yourself, but at a penalty (I'm thinking not adding the Aura of Vigor benefit)
Would you agree to lower part of the Unyielding Resolve class feature to 11th level, specifically the "extended negative HP range"? Would you agree to lower Unyielding Resolve to 11th level on its entirety, instead?
If you agree to reduce Divine Grace and Unyielding Resolve; what would be a good class feature for 18th level, which would then become a dead level?

Finally, I have another bit of news for Spanish-speakers: as you may know (and if you don't, you'll know now), my native language is Spanish. I'm quite interested in translating the whole of Project Heretica into Spanish (since I figure there's little homebrew work done in Spanish, and there's a lot of Latin Americans who'd love to see good work done in their language), but I'd like to hear of forums that are both homebrew-friendly and have some degree of notoriety as GitP between Spanish-speaking roleplayers. If you know of any, would you mind telling me here or via PM? I'd be thankful.

Finalmente, tengo noticias para miembros del foro que hablan español: como ya deberian saber (y si no, se pueden dar por enterados ahora), mi lenguaje materno es el español. Estoy interesado en traducir todo Project Heretica al español (ya que veo que no existe "homebrew", o que hay muy poco, en español), pero quisiera escuchar de foros (o de páginas en linea) que sean conocidos por su "homebrew" y que tengan un grado de popularidad/notoriedad como Giant in the Playground entre roleros de España y Latinoamerica. Si saben de alguno, ¿serian tan amables de decirme por mensaje privado, o si lo pueden decir en ingles, a traves de este thread? Estaría muy agradecido.

[Temotei]

Alright, gentlemen: it's been more than a year since I've posted anything in here, but the changes in the forums means all the tables went haywire. For what it's worth, I'll attempt to make fixing the tables here priority over everything else, though it'll take some time.

Use this (http://makaze-kanra.tumblr.com/ForumTableConverter). It's super easy.

[T.G. Oskar]

Use this (http://makaze-kanra.tumblr.com/ForumTableConverter). It's super easy.

Oh, I use that shortcut, but it still takes a bit of time. Sometimes you have to check the table crosses correctly (I've seen the table break once or twice after transferring), and sometimes the added code requires fixing the post so that it follows the 50k character limit.

That said: kinda bummed to see no response. Also, I have curiosity over how the Project Heretica Paladin stands out to the PF Paladin when fighting side to side. Just as a cursory glance (and you can also chalk it up to designing pride), but I bet my chips on mine: perhaps at 1st level the PF Paladin pushes through, but by 15th level there's no way the PF Paladin can outdo what the Project Heretica Paladin does. But that's just me.

Care to prove me wrong? That'd be great to further refine the class, and also help in considering the changes I'm proposing a bit further.

[toapat]

That said: kinda bummed to see no response. Also, I have curiosity over how the Project Heretica Paladin stands out to the PF Paladin when fighting side to side. Just as a cursory glance (and you can also chalk it up to designing pride), but I bet my chips on mine: perhaps at 1st level the PF Paladin pushes through, but by 15th level there's no way the PF Paladin can outdo what the Project Heretica Paladin does. But that's just me.

Well, thats no bet. the PF paladin only has some problem areas shored up and a wholly reworked LoH that is a good class feature for the weight it is given (maybe even too good for its weight in PF). Its just that, Your paladin sorta suffers from the same problem as the PF paladin. Unlike the base 3.5 paladin it doesnt get buffs for simply having another splatbook thrown at it. even prestieging out isnt that good because so many class features are in this paladin. Is that a good thing? yes and no. the major sign of failure of design is when a class doesnt have any reason to go all 20 levels. But another failure is when you cant justify prestieging out. For the 3.5 paladin, id PrC out unless i wanted Divine spirit in which case i would dump a mountain of ACFs into the build to justify going 20 paladin. For the PF paladin if there was the option id never go past lvl 4 with it, and with my paladin i would give a bit more thought to how exactly i want the build to turn out*, but still PrC out most of the time. With Your paladin? I would typically go all 20.


*Assuming i fix the spellcasting, currently its probably 70% stay/30% leave

[NineThePuma]

That said: kinda bummed to see no response.

I am still absolutely in love with your 'brew, but at the moment my love for 3.5 has essentially died off.

[tarkisflux]

Here's the thing: after a while, I agree with others that Divine Grace is gained TOO late. 11th level is way over its head. I still don't like it as a 2nd level class feature, particularly since that level is loaded (and specifically because of Protector's Might, which is a similar class feature), but I've considered reducing it to 8th level, to complement Mettle (that way you get much of what made the 2nd level of Paladin interesting: two great class features). At 8th level it should be right in the mid-level, and would insinuate a natural progression towards adding Charisma to certain class features. Likewise, the way Lay on Hands works in PF, particularly as a self-healing (and thus life-extending) mechanic, while somewhat selfish, is creative. I don't intend returning the class feature to 2nd level as with the 3.5 Paladin, but I do intend to see if it's worthwhile to lower its level a bit. This would leave two "holes" (dead levels) at 7th level and 11th level, even though those are levels where they gain new spell levels (2nd and 3rd, respectively), which would imply new class features. One of the things I plan to do is to reduce a portion of Unyielding Resolve (the extended negative hit point range) to 11th level and keep something at 18th level that's comparable to the Devoted Spirit stance of Immortal Fortitude and the Knight's Loyal Beyond Death class feature.

To put it simply:

Would you agree to reduce Divine Grace to 8th level, alongside Mettle?
Would you agree to reduce the level of Lay on Hands? If true, to which level?
Would you agree to add a caveat to Lay on Hands where it can be used as a swift action on yourself, but at a penalty (I'm thinking not adding the Aura of Vigor benefit)
Would you agree to lower part of the Unyielding Resolve class feature to 11th level, specifically the "extended negative HP range"? Would you agree to lower Unyielding Resolve to 11th level on its entirety, instead?
If you agree to reduce Divine Grace and Unyielding Resolve; what would be a good class feature for 18th level, which would then become a dead level?


Divine Grace as an 8 should be fine, it's well past the point where you're just dipping the class for a save boost. It's probably not bad at 4 or anytime after really. In case you're interested in reworking or splitting it up a bit, I'm including some suggestions from a different conversation in the spoiler. Just ignore them if you're happy with it though.
At low levels you could do a straight "use your Cha mod or the standard save mod, whichever is higher" style replacement, and at higher levels you could do a "up to Cha mod times per day you may declare one of your failed saving throws to instead be a success". It's the same sort of doesn't fail saves class feature, but with reduced save disparities and a more active and interventionist success mechanic at higher levels.

LoH using a swift for yourself seems very reasonable. If you also wanted to drop its level, 4 seems like a good fit because of turn undead (as they both have undead related features). I'm not sure that you need to exclude it from the vigor aura though. You're trying to hit T3 more cleanly, so granting them a minor boost like this (in addition to the access boost) doesn't seem like a problem. You could update vigor so it doubled healing up to the level + con mod limit instead of simply adding that on, if you were worried about it (which also changes its interactions with cure minor and might allow time limited stacking with regen and fast healing).

I think dropping unyielding resolve in its entirety to level 11 is fine for the indicated balance goals. The hole at 18 could be patched with a death or disintegration thing, where those effects simply take you to -10 on a failed save. It's unlikely to come up though, because improved mettle, so something else might be more useful.