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Sacrieur
2011-04-03, 01:45 AM
Blademaster
- taste my blade -

http://yusa.imouto.org/sample/a1fbcaffef8c83608300a7dd209aabba/moe%20106601%20sample.jpg

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[Rules only, fluff will be developed later.]

Game Rule Information

Alignment
Any.

Hit Die
d10.

Class Skills
The blademasterís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level
(2 + Int modifier) ◊ 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
2 + Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+0|Special weapon, weapon proficiency, weapon focus

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+0|2 bonus feats

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+1|+2 Str, weapon specialization

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+1|2 bonus feats

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+1|bonus feat, weapon finesse mastery

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+2|+2 Dex, tenser's transformation 1/day

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+5|
+2|2 bonus feats, greater weapon focus

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+2|2 bonus feats, greater weapon specialization

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+6|
+3|+3 Str

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+7|
+3|Bonus feat, focused combat

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+7|
+3|2 bonus feats

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+8|
+4|+3 Dex, tenser's transformation 2/day

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+8|
+4|2 bonus feats

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+9|
+4|2 bonus feats

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+9|
+5|+4 Str

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+10|
+5|2 bonus feats

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+5|2 bonus feats

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+6|+4 Dex, tenser's transformation 3/day

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+6|2 bonus feats

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+6|Blade mastery, combat dance[/table]


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the blademaster.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Blademasters are proficient with simple weapons, one martial or exotic bladed weapon of their choice, and with light and medium armor. They are not proficient with any shields.

Favored Weapon
At 1st level, the blademaster may select one martial or exotic bladed weapon of her choice. This will be the type of weapon relentlessly trained in. Any feats she selects from the list of blademaster bonus feats only apply while wielding her favored weapon.

Weapon Focus
At 1st level, the blademaster receives weapon focus in her favored weapon.

Action Points
A blademaster receives a number of action points equal to 2 ◊ [class level + Wis modifier]. Action points are only regenerated after 6 hours of uninterrupted sleep.

Relentless Training
At 3rd level, the blademaster receives a +2 bonus to Str. At 6th level, the blademaster receives a +2 bonus to Dex. This bonus is an acquired bonus gained due to the blademaster's regular and strenuous training. These bonuses act exactly like ability score increases from normal level progression. The blademaster receives an additional +3 and +4 at later levels.

Bonus Feats
At 2nd level, the blademaster gets two combat-oriented bonus feats. This continues at 4th level and every one, then two levels thereafter in a repeating process (7th, 8th, 11th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th, and 19th). At levels 5 and 10 the blademaster only receives a single bonus feat. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as blademaster bonus feats. A blademaster must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums, but need not meet class requirements.

These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A blademaster is not limited to the list of blademaster bonus feats when choosing these feats.

Weapon Finesse Mastery (Ex)
At 5th level, the blademaster may add her Dex modifier as well as her Str modifier to all of her melee attack rolls with her favored weapon.

Tenser's Transformation (Ex)
At 6th level, the blademaster develops the ability to reach a heightened awareness during battle, as if using the spell tenser's transformation. This lasts for a number of rounds equal to her blademaster class level, or she may end it as a free action. Additionally, the blademaster's base attack bonus does not change while using this ability. She may use this 2/day at level 12, and 3/day at level 18.

Focused Combat (Ex)
At 10th level, and while in combat, the blademaster gains a +4 circumstance bonus to AC, freedom of movement (as the spell), and uncanny dodge.

Blade Mastery (Ex)
At 20th level, the blademaster may add twice her Str and Dex bonuses to hit, and twice her Str modifier to damage while wielding her favored weapon (three times if wielding it with two hands).

Dancing Blade (Ex)
At 20th level, and while in combat, the blademaster receives a +6 circumstance bonus to AC and blur (as the spell, except that the miss chance is 50%), while wielding her favored weapon.

Blademaster Bonus Feat List
All fighter bonus feats and any feats listed in this thread.


New Feats


Weapon Defense

Prerequisites
Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, base attack bonus +9.

Benefit
Select a melee weapon you have greater weapon focus and greater weapon specialization in. While wielding this melee weapon without a shield, you may use your weapon as a shield. Light and one-handed melee weapons grant a +1 shield bonus to AC. One-handed melee weapons wielded with two hands and heavy melee weapons grant a +2 shield bonus to AC. Heavy melee weapons wielded with two hands grant a +4 shield bonus to AC. Feats that would normally apply to shields do not apply to this bonus.

Special
Special materials do not affect this AC bonus.


Supreme Cleave

Prerequisites
Str 15, Great Cleave, Supreme Power Attack, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit
This feat works like Great Cleave, except that you may make a 5 foot step after a cleave once per round.


Supreme Power Attack

Prerequisites
Str 15, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit
This feat works like Power Attack, except that you add 2 damage for every -1 penalty for your attack.

Special
If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add three times the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You canít add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)

Sacrieur
2011-04-03, 02:09 AM
Action Points
While the blademaster is impressive in raw power and strength, it is not the extent of her training. Action points (AP) represent her finesse, grace, and power with various techniques. These points function much like power points, save for there is no manifester level.

Techniques
Action points are spent using techniques as a swift action. Activating more than one technique requires more time.

{table=head]Number|Duration
1|Swift Action
2|Standard Action
3|Full-round Action[/table]

Types
There are three different types of attacks, similar to maneuvers found in the ToB.


Boost: These techniques target the blademaster, and increase her abilities for a short duration. They are activated independently of anything else.


Strike: Functioning as different types of attacks, strikes allow the blademaster to perform near superhuman-like abilities. These stack on top of regular attacks, and most require a successful hit. Strikes do not follow typical technique activation, and may continue to be activated so long as you have attacks left to make. Increasing the number of attacks you receive per round increases the number of strikes you may make.


Special: These types of techniques vary and are unique. Many duplicate what spellcasters may do with magic with extraordinary or creative uses of the blademaster's weapon.


Technique List



a
AP Cost:
Type:

Description




Power Break
AP Cost: 1
Type: Strike

Description
The blademaster learns to put her entire body into a single swing. On a successful attack, the target is pushed back 5 feet. In addition, her weapon is treated as magical for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.


Shadow Step
AP Cost: 2
Type: Boost

Description
The blademaster moves with such blinding speed that opponents can hardly react. Her movements speed doubles, and she may move through threatened squares without provoking an attack of opportunity. This behaves as charge, and she may only move in a straight line.

Special
A blademaster may charge and bull rush an opponent while using Shadow Step. Her result is multiplied by 1.5 (rounded down).


Flash Step
AP Cost: 4
Type: Boost

Description
The blademaster learns to move so fast she becomes invisible for brief periods. This functions as Shadow Step, except that she may pass through occupied foes squares without provoking an attack of opportunity. She may not end her movement in a square which is all ready occupied. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. This behaves as charge, and she may only move in a straight line.

Special
A blademaster may charge and bull rush an opponent while using Flash Step. Her result is multiplied by 2.


Skullcrusher
AP Cost: 2
Type: Strike

Description
The blademaster jumps straight up into the air and delivers a devastating downward attack. The blademaster rolls a high jump check, for every foot above the ground the blademaster reaches, she deals 1d6 extra damage. Additionally, the target must make a strength check with DC equal to 10 + height in feet the blademaster jumped or fall prone.

Special
If the target is in the air, the blademaster deals 1d6 for every foot above how high the target is. Additionally, the target comes crashing down to the ground. Falling damage is taken as 1d6 per 1 foot fallen. If the target has fly or similar ability, falling damage is taken as 1d6 per 5 feet fallen.


Upward Slash
AP Cost: 2
Type: Strike

Description
The blademaster strikes upward with the blunt of her weapon with enough force to lift the target off of the ground. The blademaster rolls a strength check with DC equal to the target's weight (rounded up to the nearest 10) divided by 10. The target rises in the air 1 ft. plus 1 ft. per 2 points exceeding the strength check.

Special
While in the air the opponent is treated as flatfooted for all purposes. At the end of the blademaster's turn, the target falls back to the ground and must make a reflex save with DC equal to 10 + feet fallen or become prone.


Shatter
AP Cost: 3
Type: Strike

Description
In a display of brute force, the blademaster can make even metal object appear brittle. While making a sunder attempt, a blademaster may shatter (as the spell) the targeted object on a successful hit.


Wind Slash
AP Cost: 2
Type: Area of Effect

Description
A blademaster may swing her sword with such force that she can create incredible blasts of wind. If she swings her sword in an area in front of her where there is nothing but air, she creates a gust of wind, as the spell.


Forcing Blows
AP Cost: 1
Type: Special

Description
While making a full attack, the blademaster makes her regular attack, and then, if she succeeds, may make a bull rush check against the target. If she succeeds, the target is pushed back 5 feet. The blademaster may then make a 5 foot step into the square the target occupied and continue making attacks and bull rush attempts until she runs out of attacks. If the blademaster misses an attack, the effect is ended.

nyarlathotep
2011-04-03, 02:42 AM
The problem is that this invalidates other melee classes not by presenting new and interesting ways to fight (like tome of battle) but simply by making the numbers huge. This class's special abilities don't make it any higher than the barbarian at most tier 4 because all you're doing is making it have ludicrous damage output and giving them more fighter bonus feats from a more restricted list.

Higher tiers are higher because they have more options and can deal with more than just 1 sort of situation. This class cannot fly, cannot deal ability damage to things that are resistant to physical damage, it cannot resist magical enchantments with anything more than its base save, and it cannot change the terrain around it; that is why warblade is tier 3 and this class is tier 4. This class is simply put nothing more than a fighter replacement.

Tacitus
2011-04-03, 02:57 AM
Favored Weapon
At 1st level, the blademaster may select a single melee slashing weapon. This will be the type of weapon relentlessly trained in. Any feats she selects from the list of blademaster bonus feats only apply while wielding her favored weapon.

So only slashing weapons, not merely any bladed weapon? Rapiers, shortswords, etc. Eh, okay, but see anything that has DR overcome by one of the other basic physical types and you're going to suffer.


Weapon Proficiency & Focus
At 1st level, the blademaster receives weapon proficiency and focus in her favored weapon. The weapon may be exotic.

Weapon proficiency should be in the weapon proficiencies. ie, 'A blademaster is proficient with simple weapons, one martial or exotic bladed weapon of their choice, and ...'


Bonus Attributes
At 3rd level, the blademaster receives a +2 bonus to Str. At 6th level, the blademaster receives a +2 bonus to Dex. This bonus is an inherent bonus gained due to the blademaster's regular and strenuous training. Unlike other
inherent bonuses, these bonuses stack with other inherent bonuses. The blademaster receives an additional +3 and +4 at later levels.

Just call them something else. Plus, you're not doing anyone very many favors, because Inherent can never go past +5.
Also, it says an additional +3 and +4 at later levels. Does this mean +4 Inherent total per each, or +2, then +5, and then it ends up at +9? Your wording is confusing.


Bonus Feats
At 2nd level, the blademaster gets two combat-oriented bonus feats. This continues at 4th level and every one, then two levels thereafter in a repeating process (7th, 8th, 11th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th, and 19th). At levels 5 and 10 the blademaster only receives a single bonus feat. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as blademaster bonus feats. A blademaster must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums, but need not meet class requirements.

These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A blademaster is not limited to the list of blademaster bonus feats when choosing these feats.

Bonus feats are not class features, even if you give, what, 22 of them? This is boring, and I'd rather play a Heroic Fighter than a blademaster.


Weapon Finesse Mastery (Ex)
At 5th level, the blademaster may add her Dex modifier as well as her Str modifier to all of her melee attack rolls with her favored weapon.

Kay, so you can now power attack for full without worry. I'd rather see Dex to damage instead of attack. But then again, with that huge pile of feats Martial Study, Martial Stance, and Shadow Blade are obvious choices.


Tenser's Transformation (Ex)
At 6th level, the blademaster develops the ability to reach a heightened awareness during battle, as if using the spell tenser's transformation. This lasts for a number of rounds equal to her blademaster class level, or she may end it as a free action. Additionally, the blademaster's base attack bonus does not change while using this ability. After using this ability, the blademaster becomes fatigued for the duration of the encounter. She may use this 2/week at level 12, and 3/week at level 18.

Per week? Okay, so you get enhancement bonuses to stat you probably already have enhancement bonuses to and you get some natural armor and fortitude. Uh, a highly forgettable ability.


Focused Combat (Ex)
At 10th level, and while in combat, the blademaster gains a +4 circumstance bonus to AC, fast movement, and uncanny dodge.

Fast Movement equal to what? As a monk of your level? As a barbarian? As a walrus? Again, fairly forgettable.


Blade Mastery (Ex)
At 20th level, the blademaster may add twice her Str and Dex bonuses to hit, and twice her Str modifier to damage while wielding her favored weapon (three times if wielding it with two hands).

So, you can REALLY power attack for no penalty. Don't even need Shock Trooper to power attack people into the ground with this one. Assuming non-elite array, 2 stat points each, the intention of only +4 Inherent, and in Transformation, thats +20 to hit from ability mods.


Dancing Blade (Ex)
At 20th level, and while in combat, the blademaster receives a +4 circumstance bonus to AC and freedom of movement, as the spell, while wielding her favored weapon.

So they receive a +4 circumstance bonus that doesn't stack with the previous one? Awesome, I guess. Freedom of Movement is nice, but a little late.


Blademaster Bonus Feat List
Blind Fight, cleave, combat expertise, combat reflexes, dodge, improved bull rush, improved critical (favored weapon), improved disarm, improved initiative, improved feint, improved overrun, improved sunder, improved trip, great cleave, greater weapon focus (favored weapon), grater weapon specialization (favored weapon), mobility, quick draw, power attack, power critical, slashing fury, spring attack, supreme cleave, supreme power attack, supreme weapon focus (favored weapon), supreme weapon specialization (favored weapon), weapon mastery (favored weapon), weapon supremacy (favored weapon), and whirlwind attack.

Aside from spelling errors I'm too tired to point out, no comment.


Supreme Cleave

Prerequisites
Str 15, Great Cleave, Supreme Power Attack, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit
This feat works like Great Cleave, except that you may make a 5 foot step after a cleave once per round.

Turned a PrC class feature into a feat. 'kay, whatever.



Supreme Power Attack

Prerequisites
Str 15, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit
This feat works like Power Attack, except that you add 2 damage for every -1 penalty for your attack.

And how does this interact with two handers?



Supreme Weapon Focus

Prerequisites
Greater Weapon Focus with the selected weapon, base attack bonus +12

Benefit
You gain a +2 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon. This bonus stacks with other bonuses on attack rolls, including the one from Greater Weapon Focus.

Theres a feat for that, melee weapon mastery, and it adds to damage as well. Does something else I can't remember off the top of my head as well.


Supreme Weapon Specialization

Prerequisites
Greater Weapon Specialization with the selected weapon, base attack bonus +12

Benefit
You gain a +4 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon. This bonus stacks with other bonuses on attack rolls, including the one from Greater Weapon Specialization.

And I'm pretty sure that epic feats do about the same as these two. Which isn't saying much, as most epic feats are garbage, but still.

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||

In the end its a boring, boring one trick pony that even a paladin laughs at. Hell, the Samurai could probably beat one up.
Aside from making specific comments, I second what the guy above me said.

Sacrieur
2011-04-03, 03:46 AM
The problem is that this invalidates other melee classes not by presenting new and interesting ways to fight (like tome of battle) but simply by making the numbers huge. This class's special abilities don't make it any higher than the barbarian at most tier 4 because all you're doing is making it have ludicrous damage output and giving them more fighter bonus feats from a more restricted list.

Higher tiers are higher because they have more options and can deal with more than just 1 sort of situation. This class cannot fly, cannot deal ability damage to things that are resistant to physical damage, it cannot resist magical enchantments with anything more than its base save, and it cannot change the terrain around it; that is why warblade is tier 3 and this class is tier 4. This class is simply put nothing more than a fighter replacement.

How dare I increase the damage output of a mundane class to something a wizard could do with a flick of his wrist *gasp*

Good sir, suppose I have a 10th level blademaster with 22 str and 18 dex. I am using a fullblade. Here's a list of selected feats:

Weapon Prof (fullblade)
Weapon Focus (fullblade) +1 hit
Cleave
Power Attack
Greater Weapon Prof (fullblade)
Greater Weapon Focus (fullblade) +1 hit
Great Cleave
Supreme Power Attack
Weapon Specialization (fullblade) +2 dmg
Greater Weapon Specialization (fullblade) +2 dmg
Dodge
Mobility

I get +10/+5 BAB. So let's add up the rest. With my feats that's +12/+7. Now for abilities, I get +6 from str and +4 from dex. That's +22/+17. And that's it.

Now let's add up damage. 2d8 + 9 (str) + 4 (feats) = 2d8 +13. And then whatever I pile out of it from power attack. Assuming I pour all +10 into the first and +5 into the second. That's 2d8 + 33 / 2d8 + 23. Supposing I hit both times and roll max damage that's a total of 16 + 33 + 16 + 23 = 88 dmg max.

She gets a nice +4 to her AC at level 10. +4 from dex. +4 light armor. This is +12 armor to her AC. That's 22 AC. And I would say this is even a little low.

Why does everyone hate on barbarians so much? I find them fun to play. Sorry for making a class that's pure hack n slash, but you know me, always going against the grain. For something like my Arcane Khaos or Sakrier, fine. Tier 3 is a good aiming spot there, but for this? Really how far can I take this before it stops being about slashy slashy and starts being about carefully calculating maneuvers and stances?

I've played the ToB classes plenty. And while I appreciate their versatility, I am finding that I'm continuously bogged down with planning my next maneuver, stance, and analyzing the battlefield. Not really liking that, it kinda destroys my roleplaying mindset and turns the game into my math homework. I'm a math major, I get enough of that already.

---

Now here's a serious concern for the class: maneuverability. I was afraid the class didn't have enough maneuverability on the battlefield. I'll perhaps steal some ToB stuff and put them in a different form for use by our beloved blademaster.

---


In the end its a boring, boring one trick pony that even a paladin laughs at. Hell, the Samurai could probably beat one up.
Aside from making specific comments, I second what the guy above me said.

Woah, a samurai? The hell are you smoking.


-----

It may seem like I'm kicking and screaming, but I really do listen to you guys and value your advice. Changes along what's been suggested are coming shortly.

Sacrieur
2011-04-03, 04:22 AM
[SPOILER]
So only slashing weapons, not merely any bladed weapon? Rapiers, shortswords, etc. Eh, okay, but see anything that has DR overcome by one of the other basic physical types and you're going to suffer.

Edited.




Weapon proficiency should be in the weapon proficiencies. ie, 'A blademaster is proficient with simple weapons, one martial or exotic bladed weapon of their choice, and ...'

Changed.



Just call them something else. Plus, you're not doing anyone very many favors, because Inherent can never go past +5.
Also, it says an additional +3 and +4 at later levels. Does this mean +4 Inherent total per each, or +2, then +5, and then it ends up at +9? Your wording is confusing.

Called them acquired bonuses. Wording still needs work.




Bonus feats are not class features, even if you give, what, 22 of them? This is boring, and I'd rather play a Heroic Fighter than a blademaster.

In the SRD bonus feats are listed under the class features, but I'll put them at the end.



Kay, so you can now power attack for full without worry. I'd rather see Dex to damage instead of attack. But then again, with that huge pile of feats Martial Study, Martial Stance, and Shadow Blade are obvious choices.

May be added to bonus feat list.



Per week? Okay, so you get enhancement bonuses to stat you probably already have enhancement bonuses to and you get some natural armor and fortitude. Uh, a highly forgettable ability.

Per day, no longer fatigued.



Fast Movement equal to what? As a monk of your level? As a barbarian? As a walrus? Again, fairly forgettable.

Removed, replaced with freedom of movement.


So, you can REALLY power attack for no penalty. Don't even need Shock Trooper to power attack people into the ground with this one. Assuming non-elite array, 2 stat points each, the intention of only +4 Inherent, and in Transformation, thats +20 to hit from ability mods.

Doing good as far as hitting. That's a good sign.



So they receive a +4 circumstance bonus that doesn't stack with the previous one? Awesome, I guess. Freedom of Movement is nice, but a little late.

Circumstance bonuses stack with other circumstance bonuses unless they come from the same source. These don't, so they stack. The later AC bonus was increased to +6. Freedom of movement was replaced with blur, with 50% miss. It doesn't seem to fit, but for now it is more of a place holder. New effect will be added soon.



Aside from spelling errors I'm too tired to point out, no comment

It is late =P



Turned a PrC class feature into a feat. 'kay, whatever.

Had to be done since I couldn't call it a feat if it wasn't actually a feat.



And how does this interact with two handers?

Fixed. Provides 3x bonus.



Theres a feat for that, melee weapon mastery, and it adds to damage as well. Does something else I can't remember off the top of my head as well.

They all stack with one another. You can grab both to get a bigger bonus.



And I'm pretty sure that epic feats do about the same as these two. Which isn't saying much, as most epic feats are garbage, but still.

Perhaps I'll make them more powerful.



In the end its a boring, boring one trick pony that even a paladin laughs at. Hell, the Samurai could probably beat one up.

Not really a one-trick pony if it is effective in most combat situations, and not against a particular type of foe.

Dumbledore lives
2011-04-03, 04:40 AM
How dare I increase the damage output of a mundane class to something a wizard could do with a flick of his wrist *gasp*

Good sir, suppose I have a 10th level blademaster with 22 str and 18 dex. I am using a fullblade. Here's a list of selected feats:

Weapon Prof (fullblade)
Weapon Focus (fullblade) +1 hit
Cleave
Power Attack
Greater Weapon Prof (fullblade)
Greater Weapon Focus (fullblade) +1 hit
Great Cleave
Supreme Power Attack
Weapon Specialization (fullblade) +2 dmg
Greater Weapon Specialization (fullblade) +2 dmg
Dodge
Mobility

I get +10/+5 BAB. So let's add up the rest. With my feats that's +12/+7. Now for abilities, I get +6 from str and +4 from dex. That's +22/+17. And that's it.

Now let's add up damage. 2d8 + 9 (str) + 4 (feats) = 2d8 +13. And then whatever I pile out of it from power attack. Assuming I pour all +10 into the first and +5 into the second. That's 2d8 + 33 / 2d8 + 23. Supposing I hit both times and roll max damage that's a total of 16 + 33 + 16 + 23 = 88 dmg max.

She gets a nice +4 to her AC at level 10. +4 from dex. +4 light armor. This is +12 armor to her AC. That's 22 AC. And I would say this is even a little low.



I think what the problem is is not the damage, or the to hit, but the fact that it gets nothing but bigger numbers. It gets what, 22 feats, that is a huge amount, but all it does is add a few numbers, that is all the feat list allows, and that is not what feats should be about.

You could add all the tactical feats from the complete books, stuff like shock trooper, which allow additional options, at least it's something. See what it needs is something unique, something to set it apart from all the others with bonus feats, and bigger numbers.

I know you don't like maneuvers, but that is what the class needs. That or something similar.

Sacrieur
2011-04-03, 04:44 AM
I think what the problem is is not the damage, or the to hit, but the fact that it gets nothing but bigger numbers. It gets what, 22 feats, that is a huge amount, but all it does is add a few numbers, that is all the feat list allows, and that is not what feats should be about.

You could add all the tactical feats from the complete books, stuff like shock trooper, which allow additional options, at least it's something. See what it needs is something unique, something to set it apart from all the others with bonus feats, and bigger numbers.

I know you don't like maneuvers, but that is what the class needs. That or something similar.

This has actually been my exact line of thought. I am thinking up a way to include something similar without bogging down the class like it does with the ToB classes.

Right now my throughts are. Spells are to psionics as maneuvers and stances are to _____. Just up to me to fill in the blank.

nyarlathotep
2011-04-03, 01:34 PM
How dare I increase the damage output of a mundane class to something a wizard could do with a flick of his wrist *gasp*

Wizards aren't good because of higher damage output. When I say this doesn't bring anything more to the table than a barbarian that is not bashing barbarian they are good at what they do dealing damage, the problem is that they do nothing else.



Good sir, suppose I have a 10th level blademaster with 22 str and 18 dex. I am using a fullblade. Here's a list of selected feats:

Weapon Prof (fullblade)
Weapon Focus (fullblade) +1 hit
Cleave
Power Attack
Greater Weapon Prof (fullblade)
Greater Weapon Focus (fullblade) +1 hit
Great Cleave
Supreme Power Attack
Weapon Specialization (fullblade) +2 dmg
Greater Weapon Specialization (fullblade) +2 dmg
Dodge
Mobility

I get +10/+5 BAB. So let's add up the rest. With my feats that's +12/+7. Now for abilities, I get +6 from str and +4 from dex. That's +22/+17. And that's it.

Now let's add up damage. 2d8 + 9 (str) + 4 (feats) = 2d8 +13. And then whatever I pile out of it from power attack. Assuming I pour all +10 into the first and +5 into the second. That's 2d8 + 33 / 2d8 + 23. Supposing I hit both times and roll max damage that's a total of 16 + 33 + 16 + 23 = 88 dmg max.

First off power attack is determined at the beginning of each round not for each attack so you'd have the same bonus for both. Second because you're wielding a two handed weapon you could go up to +20 damage. Third those are some pretty terrible feats for demonstrating the effectiveness of a class.



Why does everyone hate on barbarians so much? I find them fun to play. Sorry for making a class that's pure hack n slash, but you know me, always going against the grain. For something like my Arcane Khaos or Sakrier, fine. Tier 3 is a good aiming spot there, but for this? Really how far can I take this before it stops being about slashy slashy and starts being about carefully calculating maneuvers and stances?

I've played the ToB classes plenty. And while I appreciate their versatility, I am finding that I'm continuously bogged down with planning my next maneuver, stance, and analyzing the battlefield. Not really liking that, it kinda destroys my roleplaying mindset and turns the game into my math homework. I'm a math major, I get enough of that already.

If all you want to do is attack over and over again that's fine, but the problem melee has isn't that it can't dealing damage when attacking that problem is that that's all they can do. Simply making the numbers bigger doesn't fix that.



Now here's a serious concern for the class: maneuverability. I was afraid the class didn't have enough maneuverability on the battlefield. I'll perhaps steal some ToB stuff and put them in a different form for use by our beloved blademaster.


This is a move in the right direction. Giving them a few of the important buffs, freedom of movement and such would help, perhaps something to let them fly. Additionally this class realyl should get pounce at a fairly low level as it removes a lot of the problems with high level melee and fits the flavor rather well. Also Please please get rid of some of the bonus feat they really aren't helping and really push this as a dip class.



Woah, a samurai? The hell are you smoking.


He's just being facetious.

Sacrieur
2011-04-03, 01:37 PM
Wizards aren't good because of higher damage output. When I say this doesn't bring anything more to the table than a barbarian that is not bashing barbarian they are good at what they do dealing damage, the problem is that they do nothing else.

First off power attack is determined at the beginning of each round not for each attack so you'd have the same bonus for both. Second because you're wielding a two handed weapon you could go up to +20 damage. Third those are some pretty terrible feats for demonstrating the effectiveness of a class.

If all you want to do is attack over and over again that's fine, but the problem melee has isn't that it can't dealing damage when attacking that problem is that that's all they can do. Simply making the numbers bigger doesn't fix that.

This is a move in the right direction. Giving them a few of the important buffs, freedom of movement and such would help, perhaps something to let them fly. Additionally this class realyl should get pounce at a fairly low level as it removes a lot of the problems with high level melee and fits the flavor rather well. Also Please please get rid of some of the bonus feat they really aren't helping and really push this as a dip class.

Agreed.

---

Okay, I am having fun with this. And I am really excited at this development.

Instead of falling for the ToB's boring calculating nonsense, I made an entirely new system designed to capture the essence of the class. I was tired of, "oh this gives bonus to AC, and this to your DR/-, and this to your SR/-, and this to your attack, and you can heal X." I decided to make moves that actually do something extraordinary

Now here's the best part, I want them to be chained together. In another word, you can make combo attacks with varying results. Such as launching an opponent into the air with Upward Slash and then using Skullcrusher to smash them into the ground. This is where the fun begins. Suddenly it opens several opportunities and some incredible battlefield control options. Expect a lot more. AP adjustments may be needed, and I need to add some more rule information, but I really think I'm onto something here.

Additionally, expect to see more things like gust of wind. With this combat remains slashy slashy. ^_^

SUGGESTIONS FOR TECHNIQUES ARE WELCOME (hell, make your own even).

chrisrawr
2011-04-03, 11:15 PM
He's the master of blades right? Give him boomerang-like abilities with his bladed weapons. Give him a class feature that creates a sonic boom when he criticals, deafening opponents within a certain range. Give him a ranged air-blade attack. Make all these feats, so that people choosing the class get to pick. Make lots of them. Ignore hardness, sunder items when you deal damage to opponents, parrying...

I like anything that tries to put fighter-types 'up there'. Access to lots of interesting feats helps do this :3

Sacrieur
2011-04-03, 11:38 PM
He's the master of blades right? Give him boomerang-like abilities with his bladed weapons. Give him a class feature that creates a sonic boom when he criticals, deafening opponents within a certain range. Give him a ranged air-blade attack. Make all these feats, so that people choosing the class get to pick. Make lots of them. Ignore hardness, sunder items when you deal damage to opponents, parrying...

I like anything that tries to put fighter-types 'up there'. Access to lots of interesting feats helps do this :3

I do intend to add lots more feats. I just haven't gotten around to it. I've been mostly consumed with techniques. Which are just a whole bunch of fun by themselves.