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Senator Cybus
2011-04-07, 05:33 PM
I'm completely new to 4th edition, I've got a game starting this Saturday and I've agreed to play a Tiefling fighter (originally I was planning on playing a wizard, but the group needs another melee guy) - does anyone have any tips on building it?

I'm liking the look of the Tempest fighter (dual wielding is kewl!!! :smallbiggrin:), but is there any way to use the Tiefling bonus to INT and CHA to make an effective fighter, or am I better off just diverting points from those attributes, and topping them up with the bonuses later on? Like I say, total newb, any advice gratefully received. :smallsmile:

Cartigan
2011-04-07, 05:37 PM
The problem is what kind of melee guy does your party need. 4th edition isn't split between casters and melee, it is split between controllers, healers, defenders, and strikers. They can all be melee but presumably they are talking a striker or defender and they do different things.

Senator Cybus
2011-04-07, 05:40 PM
Oops, my bad; the group wants a defender, someone to divert attention from the spellcasters.

mobdrazhar
2011-04-07, 06:58 PM
i don't think there are any int or cha builds for fighters as they are all keyed off Wis, Str and Con, however paladins use Cha and are decent defenders and can keep themselves up with lay on hands. Also Swordmage is an Int based Defender and like the Wizard is an Arcane class.

hoff
2011-04-07, 07:23 PM
This article dragon "errata" to the players handbook allows for thieflings to get +2 CHA and either +2 CON OR +2 INT:

http://wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drag/201103abilities

If your DM allows, getting +2 CHA and +2 CON could help with your build.

Sir_Mopalot
2011-04-07, 09:41 PM
Alternatively, play a Knight (an Essentials Fighter build) and take Melee Training (Charisma) or Melee Training (Intelligence). You'll still have some issues from having low strength, but since essentials fighters focus on their Melee Basic Attacks, you can build a worthwhile one with any set of attributes.

MrSinister
2011-04-07, 10:24 PM
If your heart is not totally set on fighter, check out the Swordmage, especially the shielding build. If you are anything of a team player, that guy (INT-based defender) is very satisfying. Nothing like using the shielding ability as a big "NO!" button to damage.

Also, Eladrin Assault Swordmage = Deadpool, FYI...

Lord Ascapelion
2011-04-07, 11:41 PM
1. Tieflings get a choice between CON or INT. Obviously, go with CON.

2. Player's Handbook Races: Tieflings is gold. Part of the reason why the race is so good is because of this book and they canceled the rest of them due to low sales (aside from the Dragonborn one.) There are plenty of feats that enable Tiefling fighter builds. Also check the Martial Power books.

3. Probably a better option: Go with Paladin. CHA and CON boosts are perfect for a Paladin and the feat/Paragon Path support is top notch. It's still in the Defender category and you're getting the most out of your skill bonuses. And the feat support is phenomenal, with a feat letting you use CHA instead of STR for melee basic attacks (absolutely essential for a defender!) and granting you a better racial power to boot! The feats for fighter are still good, including Tail Trip, which lets you knock enemies prone off opportunity attacks, but Paladin will probably get you a little more mileage.

All up to you- have fun!

Sinon
2011-04-07, 11:59 PM
Yes, if you wanted to be a spellcaster and tiefling and the party needs a defender, swordmage is the way to go.

Very fun class. The shielding version is very effective in protecting your allies from harm, and the tactics arenít hard to master (4e is much more a tactical game.)

DragonBaneDM
2011-04-08, 12:57 AM
You want to be dealing Fire damage. Tieflings have great feat support for that.

The easiest way for this to happen is to come into the possession of a Flaming Weapon, a very simple magic item, that I'm sure your DM will hand out to your party sooner or later, especially if you tell him you're interested in it. "Wish list" items are cool like that.

Will post more on this later. Kind of sleepy right now, but if anyone knows all the cool Tiefling Fire-feats, go ahead and tell him!

Daftendirekt
2011-04-08, 01:46 AM
If you can do a race besides Tiefling, maybe do a Half-Orc, a Goliath, or a Longtooth Shifter. They're all pretty solid fighter races.

Kurald Galain
2011-04-08, 04:38 AM
I'm liking the look of the Tempest fighter (dual wielding is kewl!!! :smallbiggrin:),
That should be easy enough. Just put 18 in strength and 14 in dex, and you have all the makings of a good fighter. The constitution bonus is a free healing surge; the int and cha won't do anything for you but that's not a big deal. Do look up some good racial feats in the PHB Races Tiefling book, or in either Martial Power book.

Also, note that the Tiefling's racial power got heavy errata, although neither version is particularly powerful for a fighter.

evirus
2011-04-08, 09:16 AM
I agree with the Paladin folk.

Not only will you fulfill your defender role and have your Cha/Con synergy, but you will also have an interesting combo (infernal spawn as a Holy hero).

Are you willing to build a Paladin or are you taken by Fighter for a specific reason?

Also, a tempest fighter may not make the "best" defender depending on your party mix. Can you tell us what the rest of your party consists of?

gurban
2011-04-08, 04:50 PM
That should be easy enough. Just put 18 in strength and 14 in dex, and you have all the makings of a good fighter. The constitution bonus is a free healing surge; the int and cha won't do anything for you but that's not a big deal. Do look up some good racial feats in the PHB Races Tiefling book, or in either Martial Power book.

Also, note that the Tiefling's racial power got heavy errata, although neither version is particularly powerful for a fighter.

Put that 14 in INT. With the racial bonuses, pumped to 16. You can use DEX or INT as a bonus to AC and REF when wearing light armor.

Kurald Galain
2011-04-08, 05:32 PM
Put that 14 in INT. With the racial bonuses, pumped to 16. You can use DEX or INT as a bonus to AC and REF when wearing light armor.

Sure, that could also work. I was aiming for dexterity to help with certain feats and powers, and just wearing heavy armor.

MeeposFire
2011-04-08, 06:16 PM
Picking up on the knight idea you could go knight and pick up a paladin multiclass feat (soldier of faith is probably best for its extra mark) and then the feat in dragon that makes your MBA based off of cha and changes your racial power into a burst 2 or 3 mass divine sanction. Adds to your defenderness at range and has awesome ability score synergy. Put your alternate stat into con and you are good to go even into post racial 20 area.

1st level knight

feat-melee training cha (retrained to paladin multiclass feat at level 2)

2nd level add that paladin feat for the cha MBA and mass divine sanction.

You could also go paladin and have some good results too.

Senator Cybus
2011-04-08, 09:00 PM
Are you willing to build a Paladin or are you taken by Fighter for a specific reason?

The party needs a defender, but there's no real reason that it has to be a fighter.


Also, a tempest fighter may not make the "best" defender depending on your party mix. Can you tell us what the rest of your party consists of?

Warlock
Elf Ranger (Archer Ranger)
Wizard
Dwarf Fighter (Guardian fighter)

That's all the details I can provide at the moment, unfortunately.


Thanks to everyone who's chipped in with advice! :smallsmile:

Drglenn
2011-04-08, 09:36 PM
Looks like you need a leader more than anything, bard or warlord would be best choice for tiefling AFAIK

At the moment as soon as things start to go wrong they'll go terribly, one party member will eventually fall unconcious, not be able to get back up and suddenly you're one party member short, this quickly leads to a TPK. With a leader around you can throw healing at members who are getting too low on HP and the battle will be swung back in your favour. Also leaders use many buffs to increase the effectiveness of the party in general.

Both can be melee built. Bards spur the rest of the party on through magical music/poetry/whatever, Warlords help the party by shouting at them, telling them when to attack (i.e. granting attacks), how to attack (granting bonuses to attacks) and where to move (granting free movement).

evirus
2011-04-08, 09:37 PM
No leader? You sure they don't need a melee leader for heals? If that is your party make up and you are certain that they want a defender, take a paladin. He has minor off healing and as a group you will need it.

However I -strongly- recomend a melee leader.

MeeposFire
2011-04-08, 10:01 PM
Warlords, bards, and artificers make for good leaders for you.

Bard with the paladin multiclass feat can make excellent off defenders for the same reasons I mentioned for the knight above. Do the same basic set up so you have cha based MBAs, a close burst mass divine sanction, and other marking stuff. Go valor based and you shall be good to go. Very thematic and well rounded.

Lord Ascapelion
2011-04-08, 10:24 PM
Yeah, Leader, I'd say, is the one class that I consider to be absolutely *essential.* You'll ultimately have the most fun playing with the class you want to play with, but I suggest going Leader. Warlord has the martial flavor, if you're still keen on going that route, but Bard matches your stats better (for both builds.) Artificer works, too.

Daftendirekt
2011-04-08, 11:32 PM
Half-Elf Valorous Bard MCed into a defender could off-tank quite well while doing very well at its leaderishness.

Also, take the War Chanter PP.

MeeposFire
2011-04-08, 11:36 PM
Half-Elf Valorous Bard MCed into a defender could off-tank quite well while doing very well at its leaderishness.

Also, take the War Chanter PP.

In this case tiefling works as well or better than half elf due to the racial feats and quicker access to full cha based mbas and some interesting defender powers.

Though I 100% agree with your class and paragon path advice.

Daftendirekt
2011-04-08, 11:42 PM
quicker access to full cha based mbas

How so with this?

WickerNipple
2011-04-08, 11:52 PM
I was totally prepared to present my genius on Tiefling defender options til, wait, what, no Leader???

Tiefling Resourceful Warlord / Infernal Strategist / Warmaster.

Never look back.

MeeposFire
2011-04-09, 01:37 AM
How so with this?

Wrath of the Crimson Legion (D381). It gives you cha based melee basic attacks (with full damage bonus) and it replaces your racial power with close burst 5(!) mass divine sanctioning power called paladins wrath.

So you get better melee training at level 2 (1st level you will need melee training but you trade it out at 2nd level for a paladins multiclass feat, probably soldier of faith, and pick up WotCL at level 2 which is 9 levels better than the half elf) and get a power that makes you a defender for a bit (longer if you decide to use soldier of faith and use divine challenge in another round).

Just so you know your idea is still good as eldritch strike or virtuous strike can lead to some awesome combos though they come later and they probably not as defender oriented as a close burst mass marking power you get as the tiefling. I just think the tiefling is better mostly because the OP mentioned wanting a tiefling and I like holding to that and this feat makes that combo very good.

Kurald Galain
2011-04-09, 02:36 AM
Warlock
Elf Ranger (Archer Ranger)
Wizard
Dwarf Fighter (Guardian fighter)
Just echoing what everybody above already said, this party doesn't need a defender. Heck, it already has a fighter even. The leader is the most important role to have in any party, and tieflings make pretty decent warlords. Order people around for fun and profit :)

ELC
2011-04-09, 09:21 AM
Off-topic: Melee Training was errata'd to give only half of the bonus. I would advise against using a feat for it unless you need to.

On-topic: I concur that your party needs a leader. My preference for a Tiefling is a Resourceful Warlord into Infernal Strategist.