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Nanoblack
2011-05-06, 10:24 PM
BOOM
So this is back up and running. I have some new ideas for class features and a much better grasp of what I want from this class. So stick around, have a seat. Maybe get yourself a tasty beverage. :smallamused:

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/304/3/0/301820790fd6396c6e4f2e3c48fc2eab-d31vsi9.jpg

The Sanguinary


Hit Die
d12.

Class Skills
The Sanguinary's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (con), Craft (int), Disguise (cha), Gather Information (cha), Heal (wis), Intimidate (cha), Knowledge (arcana) (int), Knowledge (local) (int), Profession (wis), and Spellcraft (int).

Skill Points at 1st Level
(4 + Int modifier) ◊4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
4 + Int modifier.


{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1|+0|+2|+0|+2|Beckon Blood 1d10
2|+1|+3|+0|+3| Pull of the Pulse
3|+2|+3|+1|+3|Beckon Blood 2d10
4|+3|+4|+1|+4| Sanguine Companion
5|+3|+4|+1|+4|Beckon Blood 3d10
6|+4|+5|+2|+5|
7|+5|+5|+2|+5|Beckon Blood 4d10
8|+6/+1|+6|+2|+6|
9|+6/+1|+6|+3|+6|Beckon Blood 5d10
10|+7/+2|+7|+3|+7|Ensanguinate
11|+8/+3/+1|+7|+3|+7|Beckon Blood 6d10
12|+9/+4/+1|+8|+4|+8|
13|+9/+4/+2|+8|+4|+8|Beckon Blood 7d10
14|+10/+5/+2|+9|+4|+9|
15|+11/+6/+3|+9|+5|+9|Beckon Blood 8d10
16|+12/+7/+3|+10|+5|+10|
17|+12/+7/+4|+10|+5|+10|Beckon Blood 9d10
18|+13/+8/+4|+11|+6|+11|
19|+14/+9/+5|+11|+6|+11|Beckon Blood 10d10
20|+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|[/table]

Beckon Blood: The first sign of a fledgling Sanguinary is their abillity to steal the vitality of their enemies. As a standard action the Sanguinary may make a melee touch attack against an opponent with blood. If it hits, the Sanguinary deals 1d10 points of untyped damage then heals and amount equal to the Sanguinary's class level. This damage increases by 1d10 every other level afterwards.

Pull of the Pulse: As the Sanguinary opens the veins of his enemies, his body reflexively takes in their crimson tribute. At 2nd level, the sanguinary gains an aura out to 5ft per class level that passively takes the vitality of his enemies while simultaneously healing himself. Each enemy who has taken piercing or slashing damage within this aura begins bleeding for one point of damage per round and the Sanguinary gains fast healing equal to the number of enemies being damaged by this effect (Max fast healing= 1/2 class level, min 1)

Sanguine Companion:Sanguinaries may first summon their sanguine companion at 3rd level; it is the equivalent of a medium water elemental, save that it looks like a vaguely humanoid-shaped mass of roiling blood.

Ensanguinate: Eventually not even the bloodless can escape the wrath of a determined Sanguinary. At 10th level, as a full-round action, the Sanguinary can invest a large portion of its vitae into an otherwise nonliving (but animate) creature. In doing so, the Sanguinary ties the blood invested to the animating force of the creature, thereby making it vulnerable to (albeit at half strength) to the sanguinary's abilities.

Hemophage: When a sanguinary reaches level, it teaches the blood of its enemies that once exposed, it can never hide again. When using one of its class features, a sanguinary may choose to take [X AMOUNT] of damage to infuse the creatures blood with a supernatural hemophage. Creatures affected have their fast healing and regeneration reduced by [X AMOUNT] and heal only half from magical sources for [1 ROUND/Class LVL?]. If a target with regeneration has it's regeneration reduced to 0, they effectively lose the ability until the hemophage duration is over. In addition, any effect that causes bleeding damage to occur may have it's effect extended to the duration of the hemophage.

Sip from the Vein: A Sanguinary can suck blood from a living victim by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the Sanguinary gains 5+Con Modifier temporary hit points.

Bloodhunt: A Sanguinary of can hear the lifeforce pulsing through a creatures veins. He is aware of all living creatures with blood running through their bodies within thirty feet of him; this does not necessarily mean he knows their exact location. He just knows that they are there, how many there are, and what their size category is. In addition, the Sanguinary gains an innate ability to hunt down a creature who has taken CON damage from the Sanguinary's Sip from the Vein ability. This effectively functions as locate creature, but with unlimited range and lasts for 1 hour (minutes? days?) per level..

At [BLANK] level, he knows exactly what type a creature is simply by looking at it.

At [BLANK] level, he is treated as having the favored enemy class feature (As a first level ranger) against any creature he has sampled the blood of.

[B]Blood for Blood: The viscera of a Sanguinary knows its place and lashes out at foes when disturbed by anything other than the will of the Sanguinary himself. A Sanguinary may activate this ability as a free action on its turn and it stays activated until another free action is taken to deactivate it. When hit by an enemy's natural attack or manufactured non-reach weapon results in a spray of blood that deals 1d6 points of untyped damage


__________________________________________________ ___________

Sanguine Companion
Not too motivated to type all of this out :smallamused:

EDIT: Companion text is in progress!

My thoughts: Class Features
Warning! I like to ramble.

First off, one of my goals with this class is to use some underused dice for damage (d10's d12's), and another is to possibly find a way to ditch the trend of using a standard action to do everything... meaning move actions for class features perhaps.

Beckon Blood: I would really like for this ability to be the fallback nuke. This should be what the class uses to replenish hp in order to keep up with the costs of its other features. So in other words, I want it to deal decent damage, but I want there to be alternatives for more powerful/flexible abilities. I would still like to use a die size other than d6.

[B]Pull of the pulse: I think the scaling on this should be fine, but am open to suggestions to keep it in line with the rest of the class.

Sip from the Vein: More or less like a vampire, but I want to tie this in with some utility abilities. Extremely long distance tracking (ala locate person), maybe a "status" effect, that sort of thing. As always, suggestions are welcome.

Ensanguinate: This ability keeps this class from having rogue syndrome when around undead and constructs. Not entirely sure if adding a clause to include plants as well would be worth the effort. The cost for activation should be per HD of the target creature, but how many? 2? 3? More? Was also considering making this ability reduce immunity to critical hits so the party can benefit as well. Fluff it as flooding the body with blood and connecting it to the creatures lifeforce. Good?

Hemophage: I personally think D&D doesn't have nearly enough effects that reduce healing (likely because in-combat healing isn't quite as effective as killing stuff). I'm not too sure about the duration, though extending it might mean increasing the viability of hit and run tactics a little too much and make retreating pointless if you just bleed out a few rounds later. Cost of 1 per point of regen sounds good or should I separate the costs for fast healing and regeneration?

Bloodhunt: Very wordy, but I got the gist of it out. Most of this was taken from the Sanguimancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167125), but I'm not sure about the ordering of the abilities. Any tips?

Coagulate: [NOT ADDED YET] Something along the lines of turning into blood and being able to squeeze through cracks. Would behave like gaseous form except you would occupy a 10ft square which is treated as rough terrain for movement and possibly able to activate some class features like and AOE beckon blood.

Blood for Blood: I think this one is a prime candidate for an alternate die size. Perhaps increase damage I take by a flat amount to add additional dice to this?


My Thoughts: Companion
I've decided on scaling similar to a wizards familiar which should give it tons of HP considering the classes CON focused nature. I want to avoid exp loss if the companion dies, but want to keep people from abusing these things as trapspringers. I also have some ideas for abilities for it to gain as it progresses. Some examples are:

Vascular Mount/Infusion: The blood comapnion may enter the bloodstream of another (unwilling targets require a pin) where it may affect it's host in several ways-

Shield Other
Bulls Strength, Cats Grace, Bears Endurance (Only one may be active at a time)
Flight
Corpse animation
Size increases
Maybe healing based on temporary HP?

And the inverse of these could apply for enemies. I could also make several companion trees and have one for offence/defense/utility.


So what do you think, and what can I do to improve on this thing? What are some abilities this class should have? How can I improve what I have already?

Nanoblack
2011-05-06, 10:25 PM
Reserved because it makes me feel important.

ForzaFiori
2011-05-06, 11:47 PM
On the companion: Personally, I feel that some sort of scaling HP would work best, so that it can be at least somewhat useful in combat. However, allowing it to become larger elementals would work the same way.

to keep people from using it as a trapspringer, You could perhaps make it take a day or so to reform, perhaps fluff it by saying that it takes time to gather the needed blood

Codemus
2011-05-07, 01:52 AM
Okay, this looks pretty cool. I found a few errors in your spelling, but it's no big deal.
So, need some help huh? Lets see.. Oh, you need to add in the classes weapon and armor proficiencies.

And on the abilities:


Beckon Blood: The first sign of a fledgling Sanguinite is their ability to steal the vitality of their enemies. As a standard action the Sanguinite may make a melee touch attack against an opponent with blood. If it hits, the Sanguinite deals 1d6 points of untyped damage then heals an amount equal to the Sanguinites class level. This damage increases by 1d6 every other level.

Looks pretty good. As is? Maybe a little underpowered. Yeah, you gain HP off of it, but it's a touch attack for a class that so far has little else. So this is suppose to be the mainline attack for the Sanguinite?

Anyway, you mentioned wanting to use different dice. Perhaps the progression could go like this.

1st - 3rd: 1d6
4th - 7th: 1d8
8th - 11th: 1d10
12th - 15th: 1d12
15th - 18th: 2d8
19th - 20th: 2d12

Might not be the best progression there. Maybe something more mathematically even through the levels would probably be better fitting. *shrug*

The amount of hp returned can stay the same, the Sanguinite's character level. Maybe there could be a feat thrown in to add Con modifier to it? Or perhaps at around 10th level, Con mod is added, and at 20th double Con mod? Just throwing that out there. Another possibility would be allowing this ability to be used at range somehow.


Sanguine Singularity: As the Sanguinite opens the veins of his enemies; his body reflexively takes in their crimson tribute. At level, the Sanguinite gains an aura out to 5ft per class level that passively takes the vitality of his enemies while simultaneously healing himself. Each enemy who has taken piercing or slashing damage within this aura begins bleeding for one point of damage per round and the Sanguinite gains fast healing equal to the number of enemies being damaged by this effect( Max fast healing= 1/2 class level)

Perhaps this can be renamed something like 'Blood Flow' or 'Vital Grasp'. Not sure what else to name it. Since currently the class has little to work with, and you already have a range cap in it and healing cap, it seems fine to hand this out in the first few levels.

It has some pretty steep drawbacks, but it works. I mean the whole 'has to have blood' and 'have an open wound' things. Those might be rare, depending on campaign. Looks fine overall.


[B]Sanguine Companion:Sanguimancers may first summon their sanguine companion at fifth level; it is the equivalent of a medium water elemental, save that it looks like a vaguely humanoid-shaped mass of roiling blood.

Yeah, this needs more ruling. Sanguimancers? Sanguinite sounds better to me. Perhaps start it out as Diminutive, and give it modified familiar traits. Also, it could upsize as you (and thereby it) gain levels. Something like up to Tiny at 10th, Small at 15th, and Medium/Large at 20th?


Blood Drain: More or less like a vampire, but I want to tie this in with some tracking abilities. Good healing if directly nursing from the vein, and being able to track the target by blood once such a connection is made, though that last part is likely going to be a separate ability.

So it would be like:


Blood Drain (Ex): A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.

So it would require a grapple. Hmm... but it drains constitution? Nifty. Only 5 temp hp? Maybe make it 5 + Con mod temp hp, and up the drain damage to 1d6, since you have to wrestle your target.

The rest of that tracking stuff could just as easily be their own abilities, instead of being attached to blood drain. Just saying.

EDIT:

Oh, one more idea. Maybe throw in some Damage Reduction? Maybe something similar to the barbarians DR progression, but defeated by bludgeoning? Due to the class controlling blood but not bones would be the fluff reason behind that.

Nanoblack
2011-05-07, 08:47 AM
Okay, this looks pretty cool. I found a few errors in your spelling, but it's no big deal. Fixed the ones I found...
So, need some help huh? Lets see.. Oh, you need to add in the classes weapon and armor proficiencies.

And on the abilities:


Looks pretty good. As is? Maybe a little underpowered. Yeah, you gain HP off of it, but it's a touch attack for a class that so far has little else. So this is suppose to be the mainline attack for the Sanguinite?

I wanted to keep this ability in line with eldritch blast, but I assumed the healing would up its usefulness so I dropped the damage a bit.

Anyway, you mentioned wanting to use different dice. Perhaps the progression could go like this.
Might not be the best progression there. Maybe something more mathematically even through the levels would probably be better fitting. *shrug*
The amount of hp returned can stay the same, the Sanguinite's character level. Maybe there could be a feat thrown in to add Con modifier to it? Or perhaps at around 10th level, Con mod is added, and at 20th double Con mod? Just throwing that out there. Another possibility would be allowing this ability to be used at range somehow.

That was actually something I had in the works, but I'm afraid of handing out too much damage. What I had in mind was Either including a blood whip that can penetrate armor as well as giving reach. If I did that, I think I might actually just increase the base die size used for the melee touch version to d10.

Perhaps this can be renamed something like 'Blood Flow' or 'Vital Grasp'. Not sure what else to name it. Since currently the class has little to work with, and you already have a range cap in it and healing cap, it seems fine to hand this out in the first few levels.
It has some pretty steep drawbacks, but it works. I mean the whole 'has to have blood' and 'have an open wound' things. Those might be rare, depending on campaign. Looks fine overall.

How does "Tides of Blood" sound? I don't like the "slashing or piercing designation, but just leaving a vague requirement that something must be bleeding is just asking for some rules-lawyer to pick a fight.Would it be too much to increase the bleeding damage to like 1/4 lvl?

Yeah, this needs more ruling. Sanguimancers? Sanguinite sounds better to me. Perhaps start it out as Diminutive, and give it modified familiar traits. Also, it could upsize as you (and thereby it) gain levels. Something like up to Tiny at 10th, Small at 15th, and Medium/Large at 20th?

As is the trend with many of my posts, this one was made just before bed last night and I had been reading other blood related homebrews from these boards. I'd prefer to have an original name if possible... force of habit. I think your size progression might be a little low, but the largest I want to go is huge. I would like to give it the malleable form ability and maybe engulf as an offensive option, but once again I feel like I'm adding too much.


So it would require a grapple. Hmm... but it drains constitution? Nifty. Only 5 temp hp? Maybe make it 5 + Con mod temp hp, and up the drain damage to 1d6, since you have to wrestle your target.
The rest of that tracking stuff could just as easily be their own abilities, instead of being attached to blood drain. Just saying.

I added the blood drain and a preliminary tracking ability. Needs work though.

EDIT:
Oh, one more idea. Maybe throw in some Damage Reduction? Maybe something similar to the barbarians DR progression, but defeated by bludgeoning? Due to the class controlling blood but not bones would be the fluff reason behind that.

I do intend to add in an ability that damages those who attack the Sanguinary, but damage reduction seems kind of redundant with all of the healing this class has.

Answers in bold

Tacitus
2011-05-07, 10:26 AM
I only have thoughts on Beckon Blood as yet, but I will probably be back through again and again as this takes shape. If any of my comments were addressed already I apologize, I'm not entirely awake.

Well, as its a melee touch attack its somewhat less useful than Eldritch blast, and unless you intend to add in the equivalents of Shapes and Essences for more versatility then the healing makes up for the lack of versatility that the warlock's blast has.

If you don't want to toss in class features to boost the damage die (like at 10 and then again at 20 it goes to d8 and then d10) then why not add a feat chain to increase the size of the damage dice? Rogues have a d6->d8 feat somewhere, so why shouldn't this have the same?

Also, consider allowing Beckon blood to be used with a weapon.

Given that your main class feature, Beckon Blood, has the main benefit of healing you, I take it that later abilities will be using up your own HP for fun stuff? Seems a common enough thing with this type of character archetype, but again, I didn't look into things too heavily. >.<

Welknair
2011-05-07, 10:33 AM
Why does the table not include the rest of the class features? :smallconfused:

DracoDei
2011-05-07, 10:43 AM
Why does the table not include the rest of the class features? :smallconfused:
I think it is because he hasn't decided what levels to put them at yet.

Nanoblack
2011-05-07, 10:45 AM
Why does the table not include the rest of the class features? :smallconfused:

Mainly because I am currently undecided on where to place them. :smallannoyed:

EDIT: Draco'd

Welknair
2011-05-07, 11:38 AM
Mainly because I am currently undecided on where to place them. :smallannoyed:

EDIT: Draco'd

Ah. Well, 'sides from that, looks good. It's also the first d12, 3/4 BAB class that I've seen.

Codemus
2011-05-07, 01:33 PM
I wanted to keep this ability in line with eldritch blast, but I assumed the healing would up its usefulness so I dropped the damage a bit.

Yeah, can't go too far wrong with that. What Tacitus said struck me as really good. Keep the progression like it is, and allow it to be used with a melee attack too. Perhaps something like: As a standard action, make a melee touch attack, or a single attack with a weapon. Then up it to allow a full attack as they level? Well, that may be pushing it.

That was actually something I had in the works, but I'm afraid of handing out too much damage. What I had in mind was Either including a blood whip that can penetrate armor as well as giving reach. If I did that, I think I might actually just increase the base die size used for the melee touch version to d10.

Huh, you could model it like the whip like the Pyrokinetic gets. It has the flavor of a whip, but it acts like a melee touch ray. Kinda weird like that. And yeah, the melee one would have to improve to compete with the whip.

How does "Tides of Blood" sound? I don't like the "slashing or piercing designation, but just leaving a vague requirement that something must be bleeding is just asking for some rules-lawyer to pick a fight.Would it be too much to increase the bleeding damage to like 1/4 lvl?

Well, as it is, the damage it pitiful. One extra point? 1/4th level sounds like a good idea to me. Not too much, and it gets some progression at least.

As is the trend with many of my posts, this one was made just before bed last night and I had been reading other blood related homebrews from these boards. I'd prefer to have an original name if possible... force of habit. I think your size progression might be a little low, but the largest I want to go is huge. I would like to give it the malleable form ability and maybe engulf as an offensive option, but once again I feel like I'm adding too much.

What is the malleable form from? Engulf could work, but maybe you should drop some water elemental abilities to add those two in. Most likely, you should drop Water Mastery and Vortex. Maybe you could even add a third extra ability and throw in a vulnerability to water/cold attacks? Cause blood dilutes in water and can freeze like any other liquid.

I added the blood drain and a preliminary tracking ability. Needs work though.

Cool. I'll look 'em over when I get back from mothers day shoping.

I do intend to add in an ability that damages those who attack the Sanguinary, but damage reduction seems kind of redundant with all of the healing this class has.

Eh, I just thought it was a little flavorful. It dosen't even have to be good DR. Maybe just DR against non-lethal? That damaging thing sounds pretty cool.


My answers in green.

Oh, and I had another idea. Why not give the ability to shape a blade out of blood? Something like the Shadowsmith has from Tome of Magic maybe.

EDIT: I forgot. Yeah, Tides of Blood sounds fine.

Codemus
2011-05-07, 04:17 PM
I don't like to double post, but I don't remember the character limit for posts, so I'll just throw in another.


EDIT:Renamed to "Pull of the Pulse"

I like it. It has pizzaz.


Ensanguinate: This ability keeps this class from having rogue syndrome when around undead and constructs. Not entirely sure if adding a clause to include plants as well would be worth the effort. I was also thinking of having this deal a tiny bit of CON damage to perform. Was also considering making this ability useful to more that just the Sanguinary by having it reduce immunity to critical hits.

Hm... Con damage to do it huh? What about double character level damage, untyped and unavoidable? Maybe triple character level instead, since the class has hp gain abilities. Reducing immunity to crits could be intresting. How would it be implemented? Droping it by 25% each time?


Hemoplague: I know the name doesn't really fit the effect... I personally think D&D doesn't have nearly enough effects that reduce healing (likely because in-combat healing isn't quite as effective as killing stuff). I'm not too sure about the duration, though extending it might mean increasing the viability of hit and run tactics a little too much and make retreating pointless if you just bleed out a few round later.

Another name could be 'Hemophage'. Duration could be... 1/round a class level + Con mod? Also, maybe to balance the longer duration make it usable only a few times a day. As to the problem with hit and run tactics, I don't see that being too much of a big deal. The way I see it, this won't enable hit and run nearly as badly as wizards and their spells (looking at you solid fog).


My Thoughts: Companion
This is another problem area of mine where I can't trust my opinion on what's balanced. Is a water elemental a good foundation? Should it have HP independent of the Sanguinary (Animal companion) or based off of it's masters total (wizards familiar)? I want to avoid exp loss if the companion dies, but want to keep people from abusing these things as trapspringers. I also have some ideas for abilities for it to gain as it progresses. Some examples are:

I think water elemental is a very good foundation. Thematic in the very least. I also think tying its hp to its masters would work well.

Perhaps, to avoid too much abuse, you could mimic the Eidolon from the Summoner class in Pathfinder. Not itís evolution points or whatsits, but how itís summoned and itís special nature (being a summoned creature but not vulnerable to dispel and other stuff).


Vascular Mount:(Needs better name) The blood comapnion may enter the bloodstream of another (unwilling targets require a pin) where it may affect it's host in several ways-

Shield Other
Bulls Strength, Cats Grace, Bears Endurance (Only one may be active at a time)
Flight
And the inverse of these could apply for enemies.


Looks cool. I dunno about flight, but it seems alright otherwise.

Nanoblack
2011-05-07, 05:13 PM
I don't like to double post, but I don't remember the character limit for posts, so I'll just throw in another.



I like it. It has pizzaz.

It just suddenly came to me :smallbiggrin:

Hm... Con damage to do it huh? What about double character level damage, untyped and unavoidable? Maybe triple character level instead, since the class has hp gain abilities. Reducing immunity to crits could be intresting. How would it be implemented? Droping it by 25% each time?

Something like that, but even though it is a full round action, I'm still leaning toward Con damage for the ability cost. Double class level sounds reasonable though.

Another name could be 'Hemophage'. Duration could be... 1/round a class level + Con mod? Also, maybe to balance the longer duration make it usable only a few times a day. As to the problem with hit and run tactics, I don't see that being too much of a big deal. The way I see it, this won't enable hit and run nearly as badly as wizards and their spells (looking at you solid fog).

Hemophage? Damn fine suggestion!

I think water elemental is a very good foundation. Thematic in the very least. I also think tying its hp to its masters would work well.

Perhaps, to avoid too much abuse, you could mimic the Eidolon from the Summoner class in Pathfinder. Not itís evolution points or whatsits, but how itís summoned and itís special nature (being a summoned creature but not vulnerable to dispel and other stuff).

I hadn't even considered banishment as an issue... Maybe I could include a clause stating thats spells of that sort could only effect the companion if they would also effect the master.

Looks cool. I dunno about flight, but it seems alright otherwise.

To address an earlier question: Both Malleable form and engulf are abilities of the waterveiled assassin from the MMIV. Malleable form basically states that the creatures body acts like a fluid (eg. can flow through cracks and other small spaces. Engulf is common enough to not warrant an explanation.

Also, while on the subject of the sanguine companion, I'm definitely going to strip off the water elemental abilities (should it keep DR?) and am going to give it a small amount of fast healing. All of the special companion abilities (which should be getting their own table soon) it gets are going to cost it hp.

On the subject of beckon blood and weapons: The class definitely needs some way to deal with ranged foes but I really do not want to just tack on another DEAL X DAMAGE ability. What could I add that would fit thematically but not be cliche?

Codemus
2011-05-07, 06:17 PM
To address an earlier question: Both Malleable form and engulf are abilities of the waterveiled assassin from the MMIV. Malleable form basically states that the creatures body acts like a fluid (eg. can flow through cracks and other small spaces. Engulf is common enough to not warrant an explanation.

Also, while on the subject of the sanguine companion, I'm definitely going to strip off the water elemental abilities (should it keep DR?) and am going to give it a small amount of fast healing. All of the special companion abilities (which should be getting their own table soon) it gets are going to cost it hp.

On the subject of beckon blood and weapons: The class definitely needs some way to deal with ranged foes but I really do not want to just tack on another DEAL X DAMAGE ability. What could I add that would fit thematically but not be cliche?

Ah, okay, found it. Yeah, looks pretty cool. Also from MMIV is the Bloodhulk, which could fit as a summonable capstone feature or something. Or maybe a feature where the Sanguinary could make one or something. Could tie it in as a companion ability, like it puppets a dead body.

DR on it seems fine, as only large size and up has the DR anyway, and it only comes in DR 5/- and DR 10/- flavors. Depending on how big it can get it might never get the DR 10 anyway.

Not sure on Beckon Blood and weapons thing. The whip thing seems like a good idea. Just manifest a whip made out of blood, has the stat line of a normal whip, but lets you use Beckon Blood with it? Reach helps only slightly, but better than melee touch I guess.

Nanoblack
2011-05-07, 09:07 PM
After looking through some spells for inspiration, I think I might have an idea for a ranged attack that's plenty blasty.

Hemorrhage: One of the most devastating abilities of the Sanguinary comes at quite the cost to themselves. When activating this ability (an attack action), the Sanguinary may pay hp in multiples of 3(minimum=3, maximum=3 times class level). This ability requires a ranged touch attack to hit and has a range of 20ft/3hp paid and deals 1d6(d8?) points of damage per 3 hp paid.

This ability is further improved as more vitae is sacrificed to empower it. A hemorrhage empowered to 5d6 or higher forces a target affected to make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 lvl+ con mod) or be nauseated for 1 round.

Empowered to 10d6 or higher requires a standard action to activate and turns this ability into a 5ft wide and 5ft high line that allows those effected (except for the initial target) a reflex save (same DC as nausea) for half damage.

Finally, empowered to 15d6 or higher requires a full round action to activate and causes the line to end in a 20ft burst centered on the initial target and renders any killed by the effect a bloody smear unfit as a target for spells such as raise dead.

In addition, I was thinking on the capstone and I think I'm going to go with Sanguine Singularity. It's going to have a duration of 1 round per class level that can be broken up into 1 round increments and shall empower existing class features with nifty new abilities. (For instance: Using hemorrhage while your singularity is active allows you to teleport to an adjacent square to the target (even if there's nothing left of him).

Thoughts?

Codemus
2011-05-07, 10:05 PM
*snip*
Thoughts?

Wow, really neat.

So lets see, the more health you pay, the more bang for your buck. At 20th level, to blast full bore would cost you 60Hp, to get a 400 ft line that ends in a 20 ft burst, dealing 20d6 untyped damage and utterly destroying the bodies of anything it kills. That looks pretty good. Your Pull of the Pulse would at max be giving you Fast Healing 10 by that point, so it would take six rounds to recover what you lost on that alone. Beckon Blood would be returning 20 Hp back per use, so it would take only three rounds to get it back, but your in melee range at that point. (This all barring outside sources of healing of course.)

Both combined would only take two rounds to heal it back to full (assuming maximum bleeding on nearby enemies). But then you are completely surrounded by enemies looking to gut you. Looks good. Does cause friendly fire if it's reved up too much, but I like that. Puts the fear of the gods in them.


In addition, I was thinking on the capstone and I think I'm going to go with Sanguine Singularity. It's going to have a duration of 1 round per class level that can be broken up into 1 round increments and shall empower existing class features with nifty new abilities. (For instance: Using hemorrhage while your singularity is active allows you to teleport to an adjacent square to the target (even if there's nothing left of him).

Sounds cool. So the character would have 20 rounds worth of Sanguine Singularity to work with (more if they go into epic)? I think that would work out alright.

I just remembered that in Complete Arcane (or was it Mage?) there was a Blood Mage prestige class or something. Could be it's worth looking over for insight.

TechnOkami
2011-05-07, 11:40 PM
Just to say, I'm still working on my own Blood Mage class. Just school and shtuff's been getting in the way, but slowly it's coming togetherish.

Codemus
2011-05-09, 06:55 PM
So hows it going? Got anything new worked up?

Nanoblack
2011-05-09, 07:00 PM
I've been adding little bits and pieces to the "My Thoughts" section and improving on my formatting and spelling a bit. Nothing really large enough to require a new post however. I plan on posting all of the fluff all at once so there's that.

In any case, I'm always open to suggestions.

Blackfish
2011-05-09, 10:16 PM
This looks like a very cool class, so I'll be tracking the progress.

I've never made or critiqued homebrew before, but it seems like most of the blood comes from enemies. In tight spots, I think an ability which lets you sacrifice your own vitality (damage, damage that cannot be healed by Pull of the Pulse, or Con damage) for emergency buffs might be nice. Perhaps a bonus to the DCs of spells/spell-like abilities/supernatural abilities for each X Con damage you take as a swift action, or a bonus to speed or AC or something. Mostly I'm suggesting this because I would like to gestalt it with a spellcaster and improve the power of my spells with my blood, like a good maleficar.

Nanoblack
2011-05-10, 10:39 AM
Well I've really been trying not to load this class down with too many self damaging abilities. Most of the class features are very close range and the one that isn't costs hp. This means the Sanguinary will be in range for most enemies and thus, even though he has plenty if healing, he needs to be able to get through combat while taking plenty of damage from enemies.

Also, adding any kind of buff for spellcasting would be silly. This class has almost no relation to traditional casters.

Nanoblack
2012-04-25, 09:23 PM
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRR79JjRBPGAm7RLcfYrpKBjWpp-sIzXYMmIiUcSUZlaSqc6UVM3g

Yep, I'm necro-ing my own thread, but this thing had some potential that I'd hate to see go to waste. So everyone, PEACH with impunity! (Keeping in mind this is still WIP.

Codemus
2012-04-26, 01:56 PM
BOOM
So this is back up and running. I have some new ideas for class features and a much better grasp of what I want from this class. So stick around, have a seat. Maybe get yourself a tasty beverage. :smallamused:

Hey, working on this again huh? Its been quite a while. Well, I would still like to help in any way I can.

And in that capacity, here are some ideas.


Pull of the Pulse: As the Sanguinary opens the veins of his enemies, his body reflexively takes in their crimson tribute. At 2nd level, the sanguinary gains an aura out to 5ft per class level that passively takes the vitality of his enemies while simultaneously healing himself. Each enemy who has taken piercing or slashing damage within this aura begins bleeding for one point of damage per round and the Sanguinary gains fast healing equal to the number of enemies being damaged by this effect (Max fast healing= 1/2 class level, min 1)

About the bolded section, what about adding in "Each enemy who has taken piercing damage, slashing damage, or has taken damage from Beckon Blood while within this aura"? This whould allow the Sanguinary to easily trigger the aura. However, one things does need to be addressed. Specificaly, what about creatures with fast healing/regen/healing spells? Would they close the wound, ending the drain the aura causes, or carry on reguardless?


Coagulate: [NOT ADDED YET] Something along the lines of turning into blood and being able to squeeze through cracks. Would behave like gaseous form except you would occupy a 10ft square which is treated as rough terrain for movement and possibly able to activate some class features like and AOE beckon blood.

This could be easily done, and would be pretty cool. The Sanguinary just exploding into a pool of blood (or it could be exactly as gaseious form, just as a red mist) is sure to catch some people of guard as well. :smallbiggrin:


Blood for Blood: I think this one is a prime candidate for an alternate die size. Perhaps increase damage I take by a flat amount to add additional dice to this?

Perhaps increase the damage this does as you loose health? Something like.. at 4/4 health - 1d6 damage, 3/4 health - 2d6, 2/4 health- 1d8, and 1/4 health 2d8? If you take massive damage (enough to cut straight to 1/4th or even death), just skip to the opponent taking 2d8.

Though that might be too much to keep up with. A simpler form would be 1d6 until half health, then 1d8 from there.

Nanoblack
2012-04-26, 05:29 PM
Hey, working on this again huh? Its been quite a while. Well, I would still like to help in any way I can.

I was hoping to see you in this thread again. You've been a massive help in bouncing ideas around.

And in that capacity, here are some ideas.



About the bolded section, what about adding in "Each enemy who has taken piercing damage, slashing damage, or has taken damage from Beckon Blood while within this aura"? This whould allow the Sanguinary to easily trigger the aura. However, one things does need to be addressed. Specificaly, what about creatures with fast healing/regen/healing spells? Would they close the wound, ending the drain the aura causes, or carry on reguardless?

Fast healing and regen would close the wounds, BUT with the addition of hemophage you can still utilize this ability against creatures with either of those.


This could be easily done, and would be pretty cool. The Sanguinary just exploding into a pool of blood (or it could be exactly as gaseious form, just as a red mist) is sure to catch some people of guard as well. :smallbiggrin:

I think you might be right about the blood mist... maybe give it swarm damage equal to a half strength beckon blood? I had hopes that this wouldn't just be an ability that you just turn on and run into a crowd though. A solution to that would be to give it at level 7 and have it deal 1/4 BB damage, but I fear that may be nerfing it a bit much.

Perhaps increase the damage this does as you loose health? Something like.. at 4/4 health - 1d6 damage, 3/4 health - 2d6, 2/4 health- 1d8, and 1/4 health 2d8? If you take massive damage (enough to cut straight to 1/4th or even death), just skip to the opponent taking 2d8.

Though that might be too much to keep up with. A simpler form would be 1d6 until half health, then 1d8 from there.

And this is why I like you; what a font of golden ideas. :smallbiggrin: I think precalculating what 1/4 your hp is shouldn't be too much bookkeeping. I could also just give it flat damage to prevent combat from slowing down.



Answers in bold, as usual.

Codemus
2012-04-26, 06:24 PM
I was hoping to see you in this thread again. You've been a massive help in bouncing ideas around.

Why thank you. I aim to please.


Fast healing and regen would close the wounds, BUT with the addition of hemophage you can still utilize this ability against creatures with either of those.

Ah, you are correct. My proposed change is unnecessary then.


I think you might be right about the blood mist... maybe give it swarm damage equal to a half strength beckon blood? I had hopes that this wouldn't just be an ability that you just turn on and run into a crowd though. A solution to that would be to give it at level 7 and have it deal 1/4 BB damage, but I fear that may be nerfing it a bit much.

Hmm... well, perhaps you should stick with the liquid rather than vapor after all. I have an idea, but I gotta look over the MM for this one. I'll get back to you on it.


And this is why I like you; what a font of golden ideas. I think precalculating what 1/4 your hp is shouldn't be too much bookkeeping. I could also just give it flat damage to prevent combat from slowing down.

Why thank you. That flat damage idea gave me an idea. How about an honest to goodness damage reflection? Say... 50% of damage taken is reflected back at the attacker?

Nanoblack
2012-04-26, 10:07 PM
Why thank you. That flat damage idea gave me an idea. How about an honest to goodness damage reflection? Say... 50% of damage taken is reflected back at the attacker?

That I'm not too sure about. It certainly makes sense, but given all of the healing and damaging abilities already, I don't think damage reflection is an appropriate mechanic for this class. If I were to look into damage mitigation, it'd likely be in the form of temporary hitpoints.

Codemus
2012-04-27, 11:28 AM
Ah, sorry, I misspoke. I didn't mean to say the Sanguinite should only take half damage, I meant that he takes the full brunt of the attack, but half the damage he takes his attacker suffers as well.

An example being: An Ogre wallops a sanquinite for 20 damage! Sanguinite takes 20 damage, but due to his Blood for Blood ability, the ogre recieves 10 damage.

Nanoblack
2012-04-28, 10:56 AM
Ah, sorry, I misspoke. I didn't mean to say the Sanguinite should only take half damage, I meant that he takes the full brunt of the attack, but half the damage he takes his attacker suffers as well.

An example being: An Ogre wallops a sanquinite for 20 damage! Sanguinite takes 20 damage, but due to his Blood for Blood ability, the ogre recieves 10 damage.

I could see something like that, maybe require a move action to activate it each round so it doesn't get too crazy.