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Mystic Muse
2011-05-15, 01:56 PM
Questions I expect to come up


Q: What balance point are you looking for?
A: Unless I specifically say otherwise, tier 3 or 4

Q: Hey! You did Class X or Request Y before my request when I asked first! Why is that?
A: This thread doesn't work on a First-come First-Serve basis. I tend to make monsters into classes that are either easy to make, or look fun to make. I'm only one person, so I have to do what I like, lest I get burnt out.

Q: How Exactly do these work?
A: These work exactly like normal classes, except they also count as your race. You can't be a human Silver Dragon, or an Orc Drakkensteed. The exception is templates.

Q: How can I make sure my request will be done quickly?
A: The easiest way to make sure your monster gets done is to follow these guidelines.
1. Choose a monster that's a CR of less than 10, and generally 3 or higher. The creature's CR affects the total number of levels it will get, with the amount being equal to the creature's CR. The exception is that I don't have classes that progress past level 20, other than features that scale past that point.
2. Do not request undead, Constructs, Oozes, or plants. The immunities these get as a natural part of their creature type makes them hard to balance, and therefore hard to make.
3. Don't choose monsters that get very few features but are still High CR. My best example at the moment would probably be the Purple Wurm. It would be a level 12 class, but it only gives 5 abilities that I could turn into features. 9 if you count the growths and the initial purple wurm body feature. Given my preference of giving each class two features per level, that means I have to create 15 abilities from scratch.
4. Don't choose unique beings. As fun as it would be to play Illurien, or a demon lord or Arch-devil or similar, they're a can of worms waiting to be opened, and pretty much all High CR. The one exception to this would be that I may revisit Illurien one day.
5. Don't choose creatures from media that don't have D&D analogues. Doing this means I have to create everything from scratch, including how many levels it has to be.
6. Don't choose monsters that involve Truenaming, Shadowcasting, Manifesting, Maneuvers, Binding, or Incarnum. My knowledge on each of these, let alone how to implement them in monster classes, is fairly limited.


Q: Are there any monsters you won't do period?
A: I don't expect this question to be asked, but I figure I should point it out anyway. There are some monsters I simply won't do, no matter how many people ask. These are not specific monsters, but monsters that revolve around certain traits.
1. Any monster revolving around mind control, or altering a person's mind. This is a personal issue of Squick for me. Either of these are a very, very good way of absolutely killing my enjoyment of something. Since I do these classes because I enjoy making them, I'm not going to make a monster that will by definition make me not enjoy these things.
2. Any monster that interferes with a soul going to its final resting place. This is another issue of personal squick for me. This doesn't mean I won't do a monster potentially capable of changing a being's final resting place such as demons corrupting other beings, but it has to be that being's personal choice.

Q: If I wanted to start making monster classes of my own, could you help me out?
A: I would do my best, whether that consisted of simply showing you how it should be done (In my opinion), or even giving you advice on specific monsters you wanted to create.

Q: Can I contact you outside of this thread?
A: Yes. My AIM address is soulbanish, my Skype Address is Soft_Serve_Smoothie_ and my MSN address is SoftServeSmoothie@yahoo.com. If you contact me, please tell me your account name so I know who I'm talking to. Additionally, while you can talk to me about monster classes, critique really needs to go in this thread, not in IM Programs where nobody else can see it. However, requests can be done through IM if you'd really prefer that.



Monster classes in this thread by alphabetical order.
Monster classes

Canoloth Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12810401&postcount=257)

Clockwork Horror Monster classes. All four in one post. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13162641&postcount=270)

Drakkensteed Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12125501&postcount=154)

Earth Pony Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14406344&postcount=378)

Erinyes Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13462523&postcount=325)

Illurien of the Myriad Glimpses Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12305347&postcount=222)

Kulumar Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11984170&postcount=130)

Lillend Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14209106&postcount=350)

Mezzoloth Monster class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12816282&postcount=260)

Muckdweller (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12998323&postcount=266)

Nightmare Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12273708&postcount=171)

Pegasus Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11984285&postcount=131)

Praetor of Unity Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13686805&postcount=335)

Pyroclastic Dragon Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11484443&postcount=111)

Scarecrow Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12005524&postcount=2)

Silver Dragon Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10996288&postcount=3)

Slaad, Blue Monster class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12632052&postcount=235)

Styx Dragon Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12998402&postcount=267)

Succubus Monster Class. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11817991&postcount=118)

Unicorn Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12191883&postcount=157)

Various Half-dragon type creatures template monster class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12457564&postcount=231)

Werebear Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12261367&postcount=168)

Weretiger Monster Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12024652&postcount=132)


Feats

Monster Class Feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11969459&postcount=119)

Current requests



I have a request: an ectoplasmic dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20040123a) from the mind's eye updates.





CR 4 - Ekolid (FC1 p38)
CR 10 - Draudnu (MMV p24), Laghathti (Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060620a&page=1))
CR 14 - Verkia (Dragon 357 p31)
CR 15 - Sibrex (FCI p53)
CR 16 - Uzollru (Draon 349 p41)
CR 16 - Uzollru (Draon 349 p41)
Obyrith Demon Lords - FCI


Um, if your still looking for possible ideas,

Erinyes

Lillend




Sharn are from the following:
3.0: Monsters of Faerun
3.5: Anauroch: Empire of the Shade

Phaerimm are from the following:
3.0: Monsters of Faerun
3.5: Lost Empires of Faerun

And lol. It says you don't work well with robots.


Are ye taking request's still?
If so then I request: Tartearian dragon or Verkia.(Gotta love giant evil monster demon dinos:smallbiggrin:)


this (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/dragonhorse.html). Sky-living mist horses: a sadly little used fantasy archtype.:smalltongue:

Pyromancer999
2011-05-15, 02:41 PM
Just a suggestion:

In MM5, there's a template for Xorvintal Dragons, who are, as you seem to want, dragons who are scary simply because they're dragons. You may want to take a look and see if you want to incorporate Xorvintal abilities.

Otherwise, I think this class should be fine, although I'm not sure sure about some of the added in parts, like the healing, even though they do sort of make sense. Still, it'd be nice to see some more emphasis on the Silver Dragon's role as the Air/Storm Dragon of the Metallics, if you're going to add in things.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-15, 02:42 PM
Silver Dragon







Description & Details:A silver dragon in its true form can be recognized by the smooth, shiny plate that forms its face. The dragon has a frill that rises high over its head and continues down the neck and back to the tip of the tail. Long spines with dark tips support the frill. The dragon also has ear frills with similar spines. It has two smooth, shiny horns, also with dark tips. A silver dragon has a beaklike nose and a strong chin with a dangling frill that some observers say looks like a goatee. A silver wyrmling’s scales are blue-gray with silver highlights. As the dragon advances, its color slowly brightens until the individual scales are scarcely visible. From a distance, these dragons look as if they have been sculpted from pure metal. As a silver dragon advances, its pupils fade until the strongest have eyes that resemble orbs of mercury. A silver dragon carries the scent of rain about it.

Adventures: Silver Dragons will adventure for many reasons. Most often they'll do so to help defend innocents, or to stamp out a source of evil that has grown far too great to ignore. However, like all dragons, Silver Dragons do enjoy treasure, and will adventure to find valuables like long lost treasures.

Alignment: Though usually lawful and good, silver dragons have no great love for hierarchies and formal authority. They believe that living a moral life involves doing good deeds and taking no actions that bring undeserved harm to other beings. Actions that cause no harm are not their business. Silver dragons are hardly pacifists, however, and they are quick to battle other beings who would do evil or harm the innocent. They usually do not take it upon themselves to root out evil. Silver dragons find that, in time, evil tends to make itself felt almost everywhere, and they seek to stamp it out whenever it appears in their vicinity. Should they discover widespread evil looming over the land, however, they are both willing and able to locate its source and tackle it there.

Religion: Most Silver Dragons will serve gods of the Draconic pantheon. Those few who deign to break from this tradition will worship gods with similar ideals to their own.

Ecology/Background: Silver dragons prefer aerial lairs on secluded mountain peaks or amid the clouds themselves. A cloud lair always has an enchanted area with a solid floor for laying eggs and storing treasure. mountain lairs occasionally bring with them the threat of Red Dragons due to their similar nesting habits.

Silver dragons may also dwell in towns or in dungeons. When doing so, they typically take a humanoid form and blend in with the rest of the population. They always situate themselves near one or more open areas where they have space to assume their true forms when necessary.

Other Classes: Like Paladins, Silver Dragons will rarely adventure with somebody who constantly breaks their own code of ethics. If they adventure with somebody who does, it is usually because they think the person can be redeemed, or because it serves a greater good.

Favored Class: Any.


Additionally, the DM and player are encouraged to collaborate on why the dragon advances the way it does. A common explanation is that the dragon is simply a mutant, and grows through power rather than age.

Class


HD:d12
{TABLE=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1| +2| +0| +2| Silver Dragon Body, Hoard, Alternate Form, Encrusted Hide +2
2| +2| +3| +0| +3| Keen Senses, Blizzard Breath
3| +3| +3| +1| +3| Blindsense, Cloudwalking, Draconic Roar, Encrusted hide +3
4| +4| +4| +1| +4| Silver Dragon SLAs, Silver Ingenuity, Silver Resistances
5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Detect Evil, Paralyzing Breath, Encrusted Hide +4
6| +6| +5| +2| +5| Wings, Claws, +1 strength
7| +7| +5| +2| +5| Boon of Bahamut, Sleet Storm,
8| +8| +6| +2| +6| Domain, Tiring Breath, Silver Sight +1 Charisma
9| +9| +6| +3| +6| Improved Alternate Form, Ice Storm,
10| +10| +7| +3| +7|Growth, Freezing Breath, +1 Constitution
11| +11| +7| +3| +7| Tail Slap, Gale-force Breath, Wing Attack, +1 Strength,
12| +12| +8| +4| +8| Arcane Skin, Iron Scales, Silver Speed
13| +13| +8| +4| +8| Control Water, Control Winds, +1 Charisma
14| +14| +9| +4| +9| Lightning Breath, Greater Paralyzing Breath, +1 Constitution
15| +15| +9| +5| +9| Frightful Presence, Growth, Crush, +1 Strength
16| +16| +10| +5|+10| Reverse Gravity, Protective Aura, +1 Charisma
17| +17| +10| +5|+10| Control Weather, Stasis Breath
18| +18| +11| +6|+11| Domain, Silver Immunities, +1 Constitution
19| +19| +11| +6|+11| Whirlwind, Lightning Storm Breath,
20| +20| +12| +6|+12| Perfected Alternate Form, Bahamut's Grace, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma

[/TABLE]
4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, Disguise, Jump, spot, listen, search, appraise, bluff, intimidate, Knowledge(all skills, taken individually), Use Magic Device.

Proficiencies: a Silver Dragon isn't proficient with any armor or weapons, besides her own natural weapons.


Features:
Silver Dragon Body (Ex): The Silver Dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, a bite attack for 1d8+strength modifier damage, medium size, resistance to cold equal to her Hit dice, and a base land speed of 40 feet. She has wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now. Her claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for somatic components of spell casting or anything else a human hand could do.

The Silver Dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to her Constitution modifier. Whenever she grows one size category, her natural armor increases by a further 1.

The Silver Dragon has vulnerability to fire.

Hoard (Su): Many wonder at the reason for a dragon's hoard. Many suspects it's because dragons are greedy, but what about the good ones? While good is still susceptible to greed, it seems suspicious that all dragons tend to have hoards, regardless of type.

The truth is, a dragon draws power from its hoard. Just as a knight become more powerful with a +5 sword than the rusted pitted one he found in a shed out back, dragons become more powerful with the more wealth they accumulate. It can be used in many ways depending on the type of item it is.


Gold: Gold can be used to gain the benefits of any item equal to half the amount put towards it. So, it would cost 50,000 GP to gain the benefits of a ring of evasion instead of 25,000. However, the benefit is that the gold can be un-attuned from specific benefits, go back to the hoard's total, and be re-attuned to a new benefit of some sort. The benefits of this are treated as if the dragon were actually wearing the item, so you can't attune to a piece of armor in your hoard, actually be wearing armor, and gain the benefits of both for example. Additionally, this cannot be used to gain expendable items such as wands or scrolls.
Weapons: The Dragon can gain the benefits of weapons in its hoard. With each weapon, the dragon chooses one of its own natural weapons, or a pair of natural weapons (Such as claws or wings) the natural weapon gains the benefits of the manufactured weapon for as long as the dragon is attuned to it. This includes the benefits of any material the weapon is made out of, such as adamantine.
Armor: A dragon attuned to a piece of armor is treated as if it were wearing the armor. The armor does not have to be the same size as the dragon.
clothing: Items such as necklaces, rings, boots and such are treated as if the dragon were wearing them. Most dragons prefer not to wear them, since a dragon with a crown and a cape looks silly.

Un-attuning an item is a free action. Attuning to items in your hoard can only be done during rest, and takes 8 hours.

However, despite being the Dragon's greatest strength, the hoard is also its greatest weakness. A dragon must designate specific spots as belong to its hoard, and if the items are taken out of the hoard, the dragon no longer has the benefits of the item. This is the reason why many dragons guard their hoards with their very lives, or set up dozens of traps for interlopers.

There are other benefits to attuning to an item instead of simply wearing it of course. Attuned items cannot be sundered, except by finding that item in the hoard and sundering it. While the benefits from attunement go away in an antimagic field, they come back once the dragon has left said field. While Disjunction will break the attunement on items, it will not actually destroy the items the dragon is attuned to, and the dragon can re-attune itself to the items during its next 8 hour rest.

Additionally, the previous items can be attuned to mundane items it has. An adamantine Greatsword can be attuned to an adamantine warhammer, as long as there are no conflicting enhancements, and the warhammer will gain the benefits of the enhancements, and any special materials the weapon is made out of. This also applies to other mundane items. You cannot have the same weapon attuned to a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon at the same time.

Lastly, hoards cannot be chosen willy nilly. Designating an area as your hoard requires you to spend 8 hours at the place to be considered your hoard. Choosing a place as your hoard is an ancient magic and cannot be disturbed, or it has to be redone. A player is allowed to choose to have a specific spot as their hoard before the campaign begins.

Alternate Form (Su): A Silver Dragon can assume any humanoid form of Medium size or smaller as a standard action 1/day for each HD she has. She can remain in her humanoid form until she chooses to assume a new one or return to her natural form. She cannot choose a form with more Hit dice than she has.

Encrusted hide (Ex):
Dragons simply love sleeping in their hoards when they have the opportunity. This tends to make things like gold and jewels stick within their hide, granting them additional armor. The Dragon gets a +2 armor bonus to armor class, and gains an additional +1 to this figure at level 3 and 5 for a total of a +4 armor bonus.

Keen Senses (Ex): At level 2 the Silver Dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. She also has darkvision out to 120 feet.

Blizzard Breath (Su): At level 2 the Silver Dragon gains a breath weapon that she can use once every 1d4 rounds.* The Breath weapon is a 30 foot cone that deals 1d6 cold damage/HD with a reflex save DC 10+Half HD+Constitution modifier for half damage. The range of the cone increases by 5 feet per HD.

Blindsense (Ex):At level 3 the Silver Dragon gains blindsense as the normal ability, range 60 feet.

Cloudwalking (Su): At level 3 the Silver Dragon can tread on clouds or fog as though on solid ground. The ability functions continuously but can be negated or resumed at will.


Draconic Roar (Ex): At level 3, even a Dragon's roar is a threatening weapon. As a Swift action the Silver Dragon can emit an astounding roar. Doing so deals half her breath weapon damage in Sonic damage. A successful Fortitude save (DC 10+ Half HD+ Constitution modifier) negates the damage. Once a Silver Dragon uses her Draconic roar she can't use it again until after she uses her breath weapon. The Roar affects all creatures within 30 feet. Dragons are immune to the effects of the Draconic Roar ability.

Silver Ingenuity (Ex): At level 4 the Silver Dragon gains 4 additional skill points, and gains 1 additional skill point for every HD she has after the first, and every HD she acquires thereafter.


Silver Dragon SLAs (Su): The Silver Dragon gains a number of spell like abilities, starting at level 4

At level 4 she can use Fog Cloud 1/day per 2 HD.

At level 7 she can use Sleet Storm 1/day per 3 HD

At level 9 she can use Ice Storm 1/day per 3 HD

At level 10, any SR:Yes spells she has from this class, whether they be from the domains or from SLAs, are changed to SR:No. This applies to those she has now, and those gained in the future due to this class.

At level 13 she can use Control Winds and Control Water 1/day per 5 HD each

At level 16 she can use Reverse Gravity 1/day per 5 HD

at level 17 she can use Control Weather 1/day per 6 HD

At level 19 she can use Whirlwind 1/day per 7 HD

Silver Resistances (Ex): At 4th level, the Silver Dragon gains immunity to cold and gains electricity resistance equal to her HD.

Detect Evil (Su): At level 5, the Silver Dragon gains the detect evil ability, usable at will.
At 8 HD, With a fourth round of study, she is able to determine whether the target detects as Evil due to taint, arcane or profane energies (including spells and curses), personality and actions, and/or a subtype.
At 11 HD, she can bypass alignment concealing effects such as undetectable alignment as long as she succeeds on an opposed caster level check
At 14 HD the range of the effect doubles and the number of rounds required to discern information is reduced by 2. This cannot reduce the number of rounds she must concentrate to less than 1
At 17 HD she learns all available information within 1 round and the effect is always on.
At 20 HD, her ability to detect evil has become so innate that not even antimagic can prevent it. Detect Evil becomes an extraordinary ability.


Paralyzing Breath (Su): At 5th level, the Silver Dragon gains another breath weapon, a cone of paralyzing gas which she can use once every 1d4 rounds.* The cone is 45 feet wide and the range increases by another 5 feet for every HD she gains beyond this point. Targets of the breath weapon must succeed on a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2HD+Constitution modifier) or be paralyzed 1 round for each 2HD she possesses.

Wings (Ex): At level 6 the Silver Dragon becomes able to fly at a speed of 10 feet per HD, with poor maneuverability. The wings are still not strong enough to be used as weapon.

Claws (Ex): At level 6, the Silver Dragon's claws are now strong enough to be used as weapons. They are secondary natural weapons that deal 1d6+1/2 strength modifier damage.



Ability Score Increase (Ex): The Silver Dragon's ability scores increase by the shown amount at the following levels.

{table]Level | Bonus gained
6|+1 Strength
8|+1 Charisma
10|+1 Constitution
11|+1 Strength
13|+1 Charisma
14|+1Constitution
15|+1 Strength
16|+1 Charisma
18|+1 Constitution
20|+1 Strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
[/table]
for a total increase of +4 strength, +4 Constitution and +4 Charisma at level 20

Boon of Bahamut (Su): At level 7, the Silver Dragon now possesses the ability to heal the injured. She can heal a number of hit points per day equal to her HD times her charisma modifier. At 10 HD the number is double this amount, at 13 it is triple, and it continues to increase in the same manner (Quadruple, Quintuple, Etc.) Every 3 HD. This is a touch range ability and requires a standard action to use.

Domain (Su): At levels 8 and 18 the Silver Dragon chooses one domain from the following: Air, Good, Protection, and Water. From that point onward, she can cast each spell from that domain once a day as long as she has HD equal to twice the spell's level. Additionally, the Storm and winter domains are also available. The Silver Dragon does not gain the granted power of any domain.


Tiring Breath (Su): At level 8, in addition to her Ice breath weapon's normal abilities, she can add one round to the recharge time to make her breath weapon a tiring breath weapon. All targets who fail their saves are fatigued. At 11 HD they are instead exhausted, and are fatigued even if they make their save as long as the breath weapon still hits. At 14 HD even creatures that would normally be immune are still affected. The breath weapon is considered to have “Hit” if the target does not have evasion or improved evasion when they make their save.



Silver Sight (Ex): At 8th level, inclement weather no longer impairs a Silver Dragon's perception. No form of storm or weather penalizes a dragon's spot, or listen checks any longer. The Dragon can see through storms, including but not limited to, Rainstorms, hailstorms, sandstorms and blizzard's with no impairment, and even tornado force winds cannot impair it's listening.

Improved Alternate Form (Su): At level 9 The Silver Dragon retains the following in any form if she wishes. Additionally, any items worn in their alternate form are absorbed into their dragon form, and they gain the benefits of the items even in Dragon form.

Detect Evil. (Spell Like ability)
Protective Aura (Special quality)
Boon of Bahamut
Bahamut's Grace (Special Quality)
All Breath Weapons and breath weapon modifications
Physical Ability scores of its old form.
Draconic Roar.
Cloudwalking (Special Quality)

Growth (Ex):At level 10 the Silver Dragon may grow a size category (ordinarily to large size).
At level 15 she may grow another size category, (Ordinarily to huge size).
At 23 HD she may grow another size category, (ordinarily to Gargantuan size).
At 26 HD she may grow another size category (Ordinarily to colossal.)
her AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills Change accordingly, but she doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Freezing Breath (Su): At level 10, in addition to the other effects of her blizzard breath, the Silver Dragon can make it a freezing breath weapon. All squares within range of the breath weapon are covered in ice, and all targets of the breath weapon are entangled unless they make their save. The ground is affected as if by a grease spell (save DC 10+1/2HD+Constitution modifier). Using this ability makes the Silver Dragon fatigued. If already fatigued, using the breath weapon makes her exhausted. The effects of the breath can be dispelled as a free action. She can not use this ability if she is exhausted.



Tail Slap (Ex): at level 11 The Silver Dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 +1 and 1/2 strength damage, already taking in account large size. This is a secondary natural weapon.


Wing Attack (Ex): At level 11 the Silver Dragon's wings have developed to the point that they can each be used as secondary natural attacks dealing 1d4+ 1/2 strength modifier damage.

Gale-force Breath (Su): At level 11, in addition to its normal affects, creatures hit by the Silver Dragon's breath weapon may be affected as though struck by wind effects. The force of the effects depends on her HD according to the table below, but she may substitute the effects she would normally have for less intense ones.
{table]HD| Wind Force
5 HD|Severe
10 HD|Windstorm
15 HD|Hurricane
20 HD|Tornado[/table]

However, creatures ignore the above effects unless they are airborne. If a creature is on the ground, they are instead pushed back 1d6x5 feet. The Silver Dragon adds one round to the recharge time of her breath weapon when she uses this ability, and this cannot be combined with other breath effects such as freezing breath. This ability counts as the "Tempest Breath" Meta-breath feat for all other purposes, although she does not need to meet the pre-requisites of that feat to use this ability.

Arcane Skin (Ex):At level 12 the Silver Dragon gains SR equal to her HD+11.

Iron Scales (Ex): At level 12 the Silver Dragon gains DR/magic equal to half her HD.

Silver Speed (Ex): At level 12 the dragon is no longer impeded by storms or the effects thereof. The dragon can move through difficult terrain created by storms, such as deep snow, as if it were not difficult terrain. Additionally, the dragon gains a swim speed of 40 feet. Lastly, the Dragon can fly through even Hurricane force winds unimpeded. At 16 HD, they can even move through Tornado force winds unimpeded.

Lightning Breath (Su): At level 14 the Silver Dragon gains the use of a lightning breath weapon in addition to her others, usable once every 1d4 rounds.* The Lightning breath is a line 180 feet long and the length increases by another 10 feet for every HD the Silver Dragon gains beyond this point. The weapon deals 1d6 electricity damage/HD with a reflex save (DC of 10+half HD+Constitution modifier) for half damage.


Greater Paralyzing breath (Su): At level 14, the Silver Dragon's paralyzing gas changes to a supernatural freezing. Immunity to paralysis no longer applies, the targets do not need to breathe to be affected, and even freedom of movement affects are negated. Targets are still entitled to a fortitude save to negate the effects.

Crush (Ex): At level 15 the Silver Dragon can make a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage base, already taking in account huge size
This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).

A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape.

A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down).

Frightful Presence (Ex):At level 15 this ability takes effect automatically whenever the Silver Dragon attacks, Charges, or flies overhead. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half her HD are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than her. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Protective Aura (Su): The Silver Dragon yearns to protect her allies and innocents against evil. At level 16, any creatures she designates as allies within 5+5 x Charisma modifier feet get a boost to Armor class and all saves equal to ¼ of her HD. The boost to saves stacks with abilities such as Divine grace, and the boost to armor applies against incorporeal and touch attacks. The protective aura of multiple Silver Dragons does not stack, and the dragon can not benefit from her own aura.

Stasis Breath (Su): At level 17, Combining her ice and paralysis breath weapons into a single blast, the Silver Dragon encases her targets, friend or foe, in a prism of arcanely charged ice. Such targets remain encased for 1d3 rounds. An encased target cannot be damaged or targeted by spells or abilities and cannot take actions. If there are any duration-based effects on the target other than the breath weapon, they do not count down for the duration of the breath's effects. her breath weapon range is halved in the doing, and she can choose to not deal damage. The recharge time is changed to 2d4 rounds after using this ability.

Silver Immunity (Ex): At level 18, the Silver Dragon's electricity resistance is changed to electricity immunity.

Lightning Storm Breath (Su): At level 19, the Dragon can now modify her lightning breath weapon. Upon using this modification, the breath weapon range halves, becomes a cone of sorts, and creates a small range lightning storm. Unlike a normal cone however, the Silver Dragon chooses which creatures within the zone are affected. The targets of this weapon take the normal damage and effects associated with the lightning breath unless they make a reflex save with a DC equal to the save DC of its breath weapon. The dragon adds an additional round to the recharge time of its lighting breath weapon after using this modification. Targets can only be affected once per use of this ability.


Perfected Alternate Form (Ex): At 20th level, nothing short of epic magic or the powers of a deity can see the Silver Dragon for what she really is. In addition, Alternate form can now be used as a free action, and she gains a bonus on disguise checks equal to her HD. Lastly, Alternate form and improved alternate form become extraordinary abilities instead of supernatural.

Bahamut's Grace (Su): At 20th level, the Silver Dragon adds a bonus to all her saves and her AC equal to her Charisma modifier. This bonus to AC applies against incorporeal and touch attacks. This does not stack with divine grace, and anything that does not stack with divine grace does not stack with this.

*Other breath weapons are not usable when waiting for a breath weapon to recharge.

Comments and FAQ

1. The dragon does not have age categories.
2. This was intended to be balanced with Tier 3 classes.
3. The reason some of the abilities scale with hit dice so that the dragon's abilities aren't terrible if it decides to multiclass or if the dragon is in a campaign that goes to higher levels than 20.
4. In taking this you also give up your choice of race.
5. You do not have to be the traditional alignment for your race.
6. This is supposed to be playable with just the SRD allowed.
7. You can multi-class out at any level. You are not locked into taking levels from this class.



Changelog



cleared some things about the breath weapon up.

Changed Paralyzing breath and removed the "Hold X" SLAs so that the class isn't bogged down with SLAs, and I tried making the paralysis breath capable of replacing the "Hold X" line of spells.

Changed tiring breath so that it'll even affect things like undead at later levels.

Added fluff and favored class.

made detect evil extraordinary at 20 HD to reflect how innate the ability is supposed to be.

Cleared up what's kept in alternate form.

Added a lot of stuff that makes it more of a storm dragon as a lot of posters have been asking me to do. I gave it an option for the storm and blizzard domains, I removed the sun domain and added the water domain. I gave it storm based SLAs and I even gave it lightning breath. I also tried to make the lightning breath a little more interesting. I also gave it a breath weapon modification that mimics the effects of wind speeds.

Added two more growths in line with the CR that the dragon would normally be that size.

Took out Silver Will since it no longer made sense.

Bumped up Bahamut's Grace to level 20 and bumped down Stasis Breath to level 17.

Changed the ability score boosts to be a total of +4 and made them more consistent.

Added Lightning Storm breath.

Clarified that you don't gain the granted power of whichever domain you choose.

Changed it so that you can't use your other breath weapons while one is recharging.

Bumped up wing attack to level 11 and claws to level 6, so it'll be getting additional melee attacks at a rate more like other melee classes.

Bumped tiring breath up to level 8 since a modification one level after a breath weapon didn't make a lot of sense.

Nerfed all forms of alternate form a bit.

Added Silver Speed.

Added Silver sight.

Removed Paladin casting. It seemed tacked on at best.

Added Use magic device and Search to the skill list and took away spellcraft.

Added Encrusted Hide

Changed it so that it eventually can go through tornado force winds unimpeded.

Did general grammar editing and made pronouns consistent.

Got rid of redundancies in Alternate Form, and added that they keep breath weapons, Physical ability scores, Cloudwalking and Draconic roar.

Standardized its Knowledge skill.

Credit goes to Hyudra and Gorgondantess for helping me before the class went up, Credit to Oslecamo for the original and inspiration, and credit to everybody in this thread who helped to make this class better.

Irbis
2011-05-15, 03:04 PM
Dragons have all good saves, IIRC, plus 6 skill points, while your build has 4.75 skill points. Also, some spellcasting would be nice, even if it functioned like Cleric's domains (one spell known per spell level). Or maybe just give it a Paladin's spellcasting to save yourself the trouble.

Other than that, looks good.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-15, 03:15 PM
Dragons have all good saves, IIRC, plus 6 skill points, while your build has 4.75 skill points. Also, some spellcasting would be nice, even if it functioned like Cleric's domains (one spell known per spell level). Or maybe just give it a Paladin's spellcasting to save yourself the trouble.

While normal dragons do get that, I don't think this class really needs all good saves and 6 skill points a level. Although if anybody else feels the same way, I'll certainly consider it.

I'm not too sure about the spellcasting. I'll take it into consideration though.

Irbis
2011-05-15, 03:39 PM
*shrug* slapping class feature from Tier 5 class on slightly better Warblade doesn't exactly make it Favoured Soul or Sorcerer, sadly.

In fact, Warblade might be better than what you have here, even with Paladin's spellcasting.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-15, 04:25 PM
*shrug* slapping class feature from Tier 5 class on slightly better Warblade doesn't exactly make it Favoured Soul or Sorcerer, sadly.

In fact, Warblade might be better than what you have here, even with Paladin's spellcasting.

I just don't really see any reason for Paladin casting, and I don't know how I'd implement a different form of casting. Maybe it's just me though. I could make the domain ability come in more frequently and expand the list?

Tvtyrant
2011-05-15, 04:29 PM
I will be honest, I don't understand why these builds work this way. Wouldn't it be easier to just create an LA+0 wyrmling race and then have a 19 level paragon class that causes body upgrades every so often? Then instead of it feeling so locked in you can prestige out like anyone else.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-15, 04:30 PM
I will be honest, I don't understand why these builds work this way. Wouldn't it be easier to just create an LA+0 wyrmling race and then have a 19 level paragon class that causes body upgrades every so often? Then instead of it feeling so locked in you can prestige out like anyone else.

You aren't locked in. You can multiclass at any time. I may not have made that clear enough. Added it into the comments section just to be sure.

Tvtyrant
2011-05-15, 04:35 PM
You aren't locked in. You can multiclass at any time. I may not have made that clear enough. Added it into the comments section just to be sure.

What I really mean is that the class and the race are the same thing, which alters the tone of the character. If there were an Orc class then playing an Orc would tend to gravitate towards that instead of barbarian. Yours looks like it works very well mechanically, though it has the wide spread features all dragon types get.

Irbis
2011-05-15, 04:39 PM
I just don't really see any reason for it. Maybe it's just me though.

9th level manoeuvres. When you take 2 full round actions in one turn, kill enemies with a single strike (or take 20d6 damage on save), add +100 damage to every hit, 2d6 Con damage on strikes, etc, are rather good compared to measly +7 Str and other benefits.

Only thing even remotely comparable is breath, which doesn't seem to have recharge/limitations, BTW, which leads to dragon standing still and spamming his breath at enemies... And even that for the secondary effects, not pure damage (as capability of targeting different saves with breath is rather good, though I'm not sure how balanced).

Tvtyrant
2011-05-15, 04:48 PM
9th level manoeuvres. When you take 2 full round actions in one turn, kill enemies with a single strike (or take 20d6 damage on save), add +100 damage to every hit, 2d6 Con damage on strikes, etc, are rather good compared to measly +7 Str and other benefits.

Only thing even remotely comparable is breath, which doesn't seem to have recharge/limitations, BTW, which leads to dragon standing still and spamming his breath at enemies... And even that for the secondary effects, not pure damage (as capability of targeting different saves with breath is rather good, though I'm not sure how balanced).

You have to remember that is qualifies as a dragon for breathe feats, so it does have some options. Fell breathe to take down levels, etc. Its stronger then any of the breathe based classes out there right now (Dragon Shman and Dragon Fire Adept) in its breathe weapon, and it gets EX flight and a large natural attack selection. If you get pounce on it you could do some real melee damage as well.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-15, 04:49 PM
What I really mean is that the class and the race are the same thing, which alters the tone of the character. If there were an Orc class then playing an Orc would tend to gravitate towards that instead of barbarian. Yours looks like it works very well mechanically, though it has the wide spread features all dragon types get. The class still isn't any more locked in than any other is. There's nothing forcing you to take it past level 1.




9th level manoeuvres. When you take 2 full round actions in one turn, kill enemies with a single strike (or take 20d6 damage on save), add +100 damage to every hit, 2d6 Con damage on strikes, etc, are rather good compared to measly +7 Str and other benefits.

Only thing even remotely comparable is breath, which doesn't seem to have recharge/limitations, BTW, which leads to dragon standing still and spamming his breath at enemies... And even that for the secondary effects, not pure damage (as capability of targeting different saves with breath is rather good, though I'm not sure how balanced).

I don't know how I forgot to mention recharge time on the breath weapon. Thanks for pointing that out.

EDIT: Assuming I do put Paladin casting in, which level should it come in at?

Tvtyrant
2011-05-15, 08:58 PM
I would suggest starting the casting at level 8, since that is a relatively dead level and also makes it later then a Paladin gets it.

Zaydos
2011-05-15, 09:09 PM
You'll also want to define which abilities count as racially granted for shapeshifting effects (for example as written either you count them all as racially granted and it loses all its Ex features when it uses Alternate Form or else you count none of them as racially granted which means they're a winged human with claws; while I get the feeling neither of those are intended you should mark which ones are kept and which are not; this is true even for Su abilities due to Shapechange) and should probably cap Alternate Form at HD or else its subject to a lot of Alter Self abuse at truly low levels.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-15, 09:24 PM
You'll also want to define which abilities count as racially granted for shapeshifting effects (for example as written either you count them all as racially granted and it loses all its Ex features when it uses Alternate Form or else you count none of them as racially granted which means they're a winged human with claws; while I get the feeling neither of those are intended you should mark which ones are kept and which are not; this is true even for Su abilities due to Shapechange) and should probably cap Alternate Form at HD or else its subject to a lot of Alter Self abuse at truly low levels.

How would you suggest marking the abilities like that?


I would suggest starting the casting at level 8, since that is a relatively dead level and also makes it later then a Paladin gets it.

Okay.

Zaydos
2011-05-15, 09:28 PM
How would you suggest marking the abilities like that?



Okay.

Not really sure; it's just a difficulty with one of the older dragon classes I've encountered in play (casting shapechange).

For this one (since it can't cast spells) you could just include your other Ex traits in Improved Alternate Form.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-15, 09:36 PM
Not really sure; it's just a difficulty with one of the older dragon classes I've encountered in play (casting shapechange).

Okay. I'll try and think of a way to address that as it does sound like a pretty big problem.

Glimbur
2011-05-16, 12:47 PM
The Whelm spell line from PHB II also models the ability to take people down without killing them; the spells do nonlethal damage. It does require a book besides Core though. I didn't read the rest of the class, so I don't have comments on the rest of it.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-16, 01:10 PM
The Whelm spell line from PHB II also models the ability to take people down without killing them; the spells do nonlethal damage. It does require a book besides Core though. I didn't read the rest of the class, so I don't have comments on the rest of it.

I looked at the whelm line and the spells are kind of underwhelming. Pun totally intended.

Okay, I've added Paladin casting. I will get to the racial abilities thing later.

EDIT: Added Draconic Roar too. Put it at level 3 since it should be an ability you get early.

EDIT2: Clarified what's kept in draconic form and boosted tiring breath a bit.

Stycotl
2011-05-18, 10:38 PM
i will comment primarily on things that i think need fixing, and then on things that i think are very cool. anything i don't comment on is fine as is in my mind.

let's see:

for starters, the first level looks too good. now, i may be underestimating how bad fire vulnerability is, but i don't think it makes up for full BAB, d12 hps, two good saves, the three large-damage natural attacks, a constitution bonus to ac and an alternate form. maybe if you just give cold resistance at this level along with the fire vulnerability, and then give the cold subtype at a later level––that might balance it out better.

silver ingenuity: i'm tempted to say that this is underpowered, and that more skill points are in order. but i'm having a hard time making up my mind, so i'll just mention it for now and see what others have to say.


Silver dragon SLAs Su: ...At level 15 the Silver dragon bypasses both mind affecting immunity and spell resistance with their SLAs. Affected creatures are still entitled to saves

i haven't looked over the spell lists yet, but if there are sufficient mind-affecting spells in the choice of domains, i think that this ability should be extended to their domain spells.


Detect evil Su: At level 5, the Silver dragon gains the detect evil ability, usable at will.
At 8 HD, With a fourth round of study, the Dragon is able to determine whether the target detects as Evil due to Taint, arcane or profane energies (including spells and curses), personality and actions, and/or a subtype.
At 11 HD, you can bypass alignment concealing effects such as undetectable alignment as long as you succeed on an opposed caster level check

particularly smart way to use this ability. i like that a lot.


Tiring Breath Su: ...At 10 HD they are instead exhausted and are fatigued even if they make their save as long as the breath weapon still hits...

except that it is a reflex save––partial, so it always hits (excepting improved evasion). you ought to clarify this.


Trickster Ex: At level 7 the Silver Dragon gains a bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks equal to half its HD.

this doesn't seem all that fitting to me, except for the fact that the dragon has an alternate form and the srd dragon has those as class skills. i'm interested in hearing your reasoning, but it seems like you ought to just make them class skills or something.


Paladin Casting Su: At 8th level the dragon gains access to Paladin spell casting. He starts with having 1 first level spell per day and 0 second level spells per day, gaining additional spells per day based on his Charisma modifier.

i see what you did there! smart way to implement later casting without confusing the hell out of people.


Freezing breath Su: ...Regardless of whether they make the save, as long as they are within the affected area they must continue to make saves or fall if they try to move. A creature can move within the area if they pass a balance check DC 10...

you say they have to keep making saves, but then go on to detail balance checks.

protective aura: cool. i especially like that you didn't make it a morale bonus, screwing over the bard and marshal and possibly others. however, looking at the later bahamut's grace, it doesn't look like a silver dragon can benefit from its own protective aura. is this correct?


Silver Resistances Ex: At level 18, the Silver dragon's acid and electricity resistances are upgraded to immunities.

why? immune to 3/5 of energy forms. i know the srd silver is immune to acid as well as cold, but i don't see a thematic reason for it. i'd just up the resistances gained earlier. resistance 20 is nothing to sneer at, but it's not as uber and final as straight immunity.


Perfected Alternate form Ex: ...and the silver dragon automatically succeeds on any disguise checks to mimic whatever it is it transforms into.

realize that this is a contested check that you are giving an automatic victory to. that's like (in a watered down way) saying that he auto overcomes your will save.


Stasis Breath Su: Combining his two breath weapons into a single blast, the Silver Dragon encases his targets, friendly or enemy, in a prism of arcanely charged ice. Such targets remain encased for 1d3 rounds. An encased target cannot be damaged or targeted by spells or abilities. If there are any duration-based effects on the target, they do not count down for the duration. His breath weapon range is halved in the doing, and he can choose to not deal damage.

is this supposed to keep the targets from being able to do anything also, like hold monster, or is it just to keep them from being affect-able by others? cuz' right now it seems like a pretty cool buff for dire circumstances.

this seems a bit subpar for a capstone, but i'll admit that i don't understand the intent for this ability yet.

***********************

over all, very cool. i like that it didn't offer full sorcerer casting. at first i thought that the SLA list was kind of stunted, but then i realized that the domain spells make up for that.

i do think that the class should offer a few (2 or so) abilities earlier on than 16th level that directly benefit its allies. maybe a [i]shield other[/]–esque ability or something. or some cold resistance or something.

that's all i have for now.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-19, 09:47 AM
for starters, the first level looks too good. now, i may be underestimating how bad fire vulnerability is, but i don't think it makes up for full BAB, d12 hps, two good saves, the three large-damage natural attacks, a constitution bonus to ac and an alternate form. maybe if you just give cold resistance at this level along with the fire vulnerability, and then give the cold subtype at a later level––that might balance it out better.
Okay, I changed it to level 9 and I could change the claw attacks to a slightly later level as well.




i haven't looked over the spell lists yet, but if there are sufficient mind-affecting spells in the choice of domains, i think that this ability should be extended to their domain spells. There actually aren't any mind affecting spells in the domains.




particularly smart way to use this ability. i like that a lot. Thanks.




except that it is a reflex save––partial, so it always hits (excepting improved evasion). you ought to clarify this. The idea was as long as you have evasion or improved evasion you might be able to avoid it, but if you don't avoid it, even if you make your save, you're fatigued.



this doesn't seem all that fitting to me, except for the fact that the dragon has an alternate form and the srd dragon has those as class skills. i'm interested in hearing your reasoning, but it seems like you ought to just make them class skills or something.

One of the things left over from the Oslecamo version. I guess it doesn't particularly matter. I just thought it was fitting. *shrug*



i see what you did there! smart way to implement later casting without confusing the hell out of people. Thanks.


you say they have to keep making saves, but then go on to detail balance checks. I was trying to make it a grease-esque effect, but I guess it didn't come across as clearly as I wanted it to.



protective aura: cool. i especially like that you didn't make it a morale bonus, screwing over the bard and marshal and possibly others. however, looking at the later bahamut's grace, it doesn't look like a silver dragon can benefit from its own protective aura. is this correct? Yes. I didn't think they need another boost on top of Bahamut's Grace so I've now specifically excluded them from their own aura. They can benefit from another Silver Dragon's aura, but not their own, and the auras don't stack.


why? immune to 3/5 of energy forms. i know the srd silver is immune to acid as well as cold, but i don't see a thematic reason for it. i'd just up the resistances gained earlier. resistance 20 is nothing to sneer at, but it's not as uber and final as straight immunity. Another something left over from the Oslecamo version. I've changed it so you don't get cold immunity until level 9, you don't get electricity resistance/immunity at all, and acid resistance doesn't come in until level 9 and doesn't upgrade to immunity until level 18. Vulnerability to fire is also removed at level 18 just as an experiment.




realize that this is a contested check that you are giving an automatic victory to. that's like (in a watered down way) saying that he auto overcomes your will save. I'm aware. This was an idea given to me by another poster who is generally pretty good at balance so I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Remember that this is also a level 20 ability so it should be pretty darn powerful.




is this supposed to keep the targets from being able to do anything also, like hold monster, or is it just to keep them from being affect-able by others? cuz' right now it seems like a pretty cool buff for dire circumstances. It's intended to be Hold monster as well as a way to keep them from being affect-able. The intent is to delay the effects of certain things while also being able to reposition yourselves in a dicey situation.


over all, very cool. i like that it didn't offer full sorcerer casting. at first i thought that the SLA list was kind of stunted, but then i realized that the domain spells make up for that.

i do think that the class should offer a few (2 or so) abilities earlier on than 16th level that directly benefit its allies. maybe a [i]shield other[/]–esque ability or something. or some cold resistance or something.


Hmm. Surrealistik has an interesting Paladin fix that has a bunch of cool auras. I'll see if there's anything on there I could use. With his permission of course.

Stycotl
2011-05-19, 11:48 AM
upon rereading and thinking about it more, i've decided that some of the problems i had with the class in my last critique are specifically tied to flavor and identity. still seems kind of generic dragon instead of silver dragon. i'll explain as i respond to your last post.


Any idea which level? I don't want to make the subtype come so late that it barely matters that they got it, and not so early that it's irrelevant that it didn't come in at first level in the first place.

how about level 4? i was mentioning that silver ingenuity might be underpowered for the level, even with the addition of the SLAs, so maybe give full immunity there and leave silver ingenuity as is.


There actually aren't any mind affecting spells in the domains.

all right. nix that idea then.

although, this is going to be a bit out there, so feel free to point and laugh if you don't like it. i have been thinking that a hold monster[/] breath weapon capstone is kind of redundant with the SLAs. what if you give a few more mind-affecting SLAs at different levels, maybe a [i]charm monster effect, a fear effect, and a couple of other things, and then make the capstone act like an eldritch essence, in that by adding a few rounds to the recharge time, the dragon can apply one of his SLAs to his breath weapon, or something similar. that would give some versatility, not seem right off the bat redundant, and give an interesting use of action economy.


I was trying to make it a grease-esque effect, but I guess it didn't come across as clearly as I wanted it to.

i think that grease is the way to go for this. but i'd clarify the wording so that there is no question.


Yes. I didn't think they need another boost on top of Bahamut's Grace so I specifically excluded them from their own aura. They can benefit from another Silver Dragon's aura, but I didn't want there to be like an entire group of dragons and them all getting +16 to saves and AC on top of Bahamut's grace which is already going to be a fairly good boost.

makes sense.


Another something left over from the Oslecamo version. I'll get rid of electricity resistance/immunity altogether, and just keep the cold/acid immunity. At level 18, you can get resistance 20 to two energy types by spending a measly 56,000 gold, and I think if your enemies are going to be using blasting spells at that level, they're going to be doing enough that resistance 18 isn't going to be that effective.

now, something that has always struck me as odd about the silver dragon is that it gains immunity to acid and not electricity. lord of storms, ruler of the skies, etc, but it is immune to acid, which is generally considered an earth-related element, not an air-related element.


It's intended to be Hold monster as well as a way to keep them from being affect-able.

if you don't go with my other idea up top, i'd clarify this quite a bit. as of now, it states fluffily that it is supposed to keep them static, but it doesn't define what that means except that they can't be affected by others. still sounds like it can take actions and affect others (assuming line of sight and line of effect aren't issues for the action).


Hmm. Surrealistik has an interesting Paladin fix that has a bunch of cool auras. I'll see if there's anything on there I could use. With his permission of course.

sounds good. flavor-wise, this dragon still seems a bit generic, and i think that adding some more protective qualities would go a long ways toward giving it some identity. it is very close though, but just doesn't have that silver dragon shine to it yet that i'm imagining.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-19, 12:04 PM
how about level 4? i was mentioning that silver ingenuity might be underpowered for the level, even with the addition of the SLAs, so maybe give full immunity there and leave silver ingenuity as is. Okay, that works.



although, this is going to be a bit out there, so feel free to point and laugh if you don't like it. i have been thinking that a hold monster[/] breath weapon capstone is kind of redundant with the SLAs. what if you give a few more mind-affecting SLAs at different levels, maybe a [i]charm monster effect, a fear effect, and a couple of other things, and then make the capstone act like an eldritch essence, in that by adding a few rounds to the recharge time, the dragon can apply one of his SLAs to his breath weapon, or something similar. that would give some versatility, not seem right off the bat redundant, and give an interesting use of action economy.

This is an interesting idea. I'll have to think about it, although I think Hold monster and such fit with the Silver Dragon's flavor more than fear or charm effects would. I'll re-read things though before making any sort of final decision.




i think that grease is the way to go for this. but i'd clarify the wording so that there is no question. Okay.





now, something that has always struck me as odd about the silver dragon is that it gains immunity to acid and not electricity. lord of storms, ruler of the skies, etc, but it is immune to acid, which is generally considered an earth-related element, not an air-related element. How about Cold and Electricity immunity while retaining vulnerability to fire?




if you don't go with my other idea up top, i'd clarify this quite a bit. as of now, it states fluffily that it is supposed to keep them static, but it doesn't define what that means except that they can't be affected by others. still sounds like it can take actions and affect others (assuming line of sight and line of effect aren't issues for the action). Ah okay.




sounds good. flavor-wise, this dragon still seems a bit generic, and i think that adding some more protective qualities would go a long ways toward giving it some identity. it is very close though, but just doesn't have that silver dragon shine to it yet that i'm imagining. Okay.

Kyrinthic
2011-05-19, 12:16 PM
Yes, I'm a relative newcomer, but a couple little things I noted (I'll leave the big changes to people with more experience).

silver ingenuity: if you are trying to emulate an 'extra' skill point per level with silver ingenuity you should give 7 skill points to start, to account for the x4 at level 1. 3 extra skill points doesnt mean much in the greater scheme of things, but it makes the math easier if you are taking max level skills.

Stasis Breath:
Should note, just to be safe 'If there are any duration-based effects other than statis breath on the target, they do not count down for the duration'

I know its obviously implied, but may as well make it stated, or some joker will argue that it is an infinite imprisonment as written.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-19, 12:21 PM
silver ingenuity: if you are trying to emulate an 'extra' skill point per level with silver ingenuity you should give 7 skill points to start, to account for the x4 at level 1. 3 extra skill points doesnt mean much in the greater scheme of things, but it makes the math easier if you are taking max level skills. Good point. Changed.


Stasis Breath:
Should note, just to be safe 'If there are any duration-based effects other than statis breath on the target, they do not count down for the duration'

I know its obviously implied, but may as well make it stated, or some joker will argue that it is an infinite imprisonment as written.

Also a good point. Even if it's something that would be really dumb, I want the abilities to be as clear cut as possible so they aren't open to abuse like that.

EDIT: Would a few lightning based SLAs help cement the dragon as a Storm/weather dragon?

Solaris
2011-05-19, 03:25 PM
EDIT: Would a few lightning based SLAs help cement the dragon as a Storm/weather dragon?

I would reduce that in favor of SLAs and abilities that focus on other aspects of a storm, such as the wind and precipitation.

This gives me ideas for a new, cool half-dragon variant. It'd give back the race, and over time the silver half-dragon becomes more powerful and more and more like the silver dragon parent.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-19, 03:43 PM
I would reduce that in favor of SLAs and abilities that focus on other aspects of a storm, such as the wind and precipitation.

This gives me ideas for a new, cool half-dragon variant. It'd give back the race, and over time the silver half-dragon becomes more powerful and more and more like the silver dragon parent.

Okay, here's what I found looking through the spell list in the SRD.
Ice Storm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/iceStorm.htm)
Control Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWater.htm)
Whirlwind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/whirlwind.htm)
Sleet Storm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sleetStorm.htm)

Stycotl
2011-05-19, 05:49 PM
This is an interesting idea. I'll have to think about it, although I think Hold monster and such fit with the Silver Dragon's flavor more than fear or charm effects would. I'll re-read things though before making any sort of final decision.

i agree with you about the flavor there. i just put those in to come up with something, but i don't really know what yet. also, i had mentioned only the mind-affecting effects. but it would be cool if the breath could channel any of its applicable SLAs for a price.


How about Cold and Electricity immunity while retaining vulnerability to fire?

sounds reasonable and flavor-related to me.


EDIT: Would a few lightning based SLAs help cement the dragon as a Storm/weather dragon?


Okay, here's what I found looking through the spell list in the SRD.
Ice Storm
Control Water
Whirlwind
Sleet Storm

yeah. those sound good, especially the whirlwind and ice/sleet storm.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-19, 06:07 PM
i agree with you about the flavor there. i just put those in to come up with something, but i don't really know what yet. also, i had mentioned only the mind-affecting effects. but it would be cool if the breath could channel any of its applicable SLAs for a price. That would be interesting. Something like the option to combine say, Hold person with the breath, and any one target of the breath is affected by it?





yeah. those sound good, especially the whirlwind and ice/sleet storm. Any suggestions on frequency/level gained?

Solaris
2011-05-19, 06:38 PM
That would be interesting. Something like the option to combine say, Hold person with the breath, and any one target of the breath is affected by it?

Or perhaps all targets, and the ability to channel an SLA into a breath weapon is gained about four levels after the class gains the SLA.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-19, 06:58 PM
Or perhaps all targets, and the ability to channel an SLA into a breath weapon is gained about four levels after the class gains the SLA.

Wouldn't that make hold person mass and hold monster mass kind of redundant?

Solaris
2011-05-19, 07:42 PM
Yes, but it's more thematic. Alternatively, we can mine Draconomicon for ideas. Doesn't it have metabreath feats like that?

Mystic Muse
2011-05-19, 08:21 PM
Yes, but it's more thematic. Alternatively, we can mine Draconomicon for ideas. Doesn't it have metabreath feats like that?

Well, I guess I can do that, which would open space up for the other SLAs I was told to add.

EDIT: Okay, I removed the "Hold X" line entirely and just made the Paralyzing breath better. If it needs boosted further, just say so. I also replaced the Sun domain choice with Water since it makes more sense for a storm dragon.

EDIT2: Okay, I think I've put in enough stuff to make it unique, make it a storm dragon, and make it fun. I gave it two new abilities at every level, and some levels even have 3.

Hyudra
2011-05-31, 01:12 PM
In depth critique of things minor and major:
From a flavor standpoint, not a huge fan of the flavor text provided above the class details. I recognize that disconnecting from the standard age = size category to class level = size category is a bit weird, but as is, it kind of jibes with the notion of playing a regular ol' silver dragon. I suggest letting people come up with their own explanations, or offering a few in the flavor text if need be.
Your attacks at level one are kind of overwhelming. As many as a common housecat! Only where the dreaded housecat has size bonuses, you've got full BAB and bigger damage die. So you're full attacking for a potential 24 damage at a point when most foes will have around 10 hp.
Alternate form may be abusable. I'd be hard pressed to name exactly how, but there's a distinct disconnect between CR and HD. I'm sure there's some animal/humanoid forms with low HD but potent racial bonuses/effects.
You've got inconsistent usage of Silver Dragon (capitalized) and silver dragon (no caps). A case sensitive find & replace will fix that.
Draconic Roar - I would say that if you're halving the damage already, it would make more sense to just negate it if the surrounding foes make their Reflex save, as opposed to quartering it if they do.
Just curious what your line of thinking was on the ability scores. They're kind of sporadic until a certain point, where they come in very consistently. What was the aim?
Silver Ingenuity should perhaps be "At level 4 the silver dragon gains 4 additional skill points, and gains 1 additional skill point for every HD it has after the first, and every HD it acquires thereafter." as the current wording of 'applied retroactively' can create awkward situations/vagueness.
Under silver resistances, should be 'gains immunity to cold and electricity resistance...'
Boon of Bahamut needs to state that it's a touch skill and a standard action.
Domain - I'd suggest clarifying to "Chooses one domain from the following:"
Domain - also, I'd clarify to "you do not get the granted power of any chosen domains." - as read, it could be interpreted as referring to the storm domain.
The paladin spellcasting is confusing. Is it retroactive? Maybe refer to it as "spellcasting of a paladin X levels lower than him?"
Minor flavor issue with Improved Alternate Form - is there really any reason for a dragon to not just be in a special form 24/7 for the racial bonuses/features/abilities?
Silver Will is a bit over the top for the level you get it. It's basically mind blank (an 8th level spell) at level 14.
Frightful presence - I'd suggest allowing the Silver Dragon to turn it off.
Protective Aura - A +4 to all saves for all allies at level 16 is pretty major. This, if anything, should be a capstone.
Same issue with Bahamut's Grace. Huge bonus to saves is huge (only here it's a potential +6 to +8)
Lightning Breath - the range thing needs to be clarified. I can't fathom the intention.

Scoring:

Originality: I like the direction that you've taken as far as trying to conceptualize the dragon in a specific role, but worry that you're running in parallel with the paladin. In many respects, it is a better paladin dressed up in a dragon's body. 3/5.

Balance: Some issues with specific abilities (Silver Will, Bahamut's Grace), potential shenanigans with alternate form (improved or otherwise) and with a little too much power at early levels. That said, I do think you're more or less on the right track if you're aiming for a tier 2-3 level. 3/5

Flavor: It fits with what a silver dragon is. Nothing here, beyond the potential for a silver dragon to use an alternate form 24/7, that really jibes with the flavor or would make me raise an eyebrow if I saw a silver dragon use it in a game. 4.5/5

Elegance: Several abilities missing details (such as what action type & range boon of bahamut is) and vagueness or potential misunderstandings in some areas (like Silver Ingenuity and domain. I think the Ex, Su, etc, should be bracketed as it makes reading the ability names a bit mucky, and there's the inconsistent Silver Dragon vs. silver dragon at points in the text. 2.5/5.

Playability: It's actually pretty darn playable as is, which earns a thumbs up, but as mentioned just above, there's vagueness that would lead to DMs having to adjudicate how an ability works on the fly or causing potential misunderstandings and arguments. 3.5/5.
I recommend Kyuubi contact me as changes are made - I have no problem adjusting my scores to reflect adjustments and fixes.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-31, 02:01 PM
From a flavor standpoint, not a huge fan of the flavor text provided above the class details. I recognize that disconnecting from the standard age = size category to class level = size category is a bit weird, but as is, it kind of jibes with the notion of playing a regular ol' silver dragon. I suggest letting people come up with their own explanations, or offering a few in the flavor text if need be.
Okay, that works for me.


Your attacks at level one are kind of overwhelming. As many as a common housecat! Only where the dreaded housecat has size bonuses, you've got full BAB and bigger damage die. So you're full attacking for a potential 24 damage at a point when most foes will have around 10 hp. Good point. I'll move the claw attacks up to a higher level.

Alternate form may be abusable. I'd be hard pressed to name exactly how, but there's a distinct disconnect between CR and HD. I'm sure there's some animal/humanoid forms with low HD but potent racial bonuses/effects. I'm not sure what else to do, other than maybe restricting it to only humanoids.

Draconic Roar - I would say that if you're halving the damage already, it would make more sense to just negate it if the surrounding foes make their Reflex save, as opposed to quartering it if they do.

Okay.


Just curious what your line of thinking was on the ability scores. They're kind of sporadic until a certain point, where they come in very consistently. What was the aim? these are the boosts the original has. I didn't really like the way they worked either but wasn't sure what to do.

Silver Ingenuity should perhaps be "At level 4 the silver dragon gains 4 additional skill points, and gains 1 additional skill point for every HD it has after the first, and every HD it acquires thereafter." as the current wording of 'applied retroactively' can create awkward situations/vagueness. Yeah, good idea.


Boon of Bahamut needs to state that it's a touch skill and a standard action.
Domain - I'd suggest clarifying to "Chooses one domain from the following:"
Domain - also, I'd clarify to "you do not get the granted power of any chosen domains." - as read, it could be interpreted as referring to the storm domain. All good catches.

The paladin spellcasting is confusing. Is it retroactive? Maybe refer to it as "spellcasting of a paladin X levels lower than him?" It's not intended to be retroactive, no.

Minor flavor issue with Improved Alternate Form - is there really any reason for a dragon to not just be in a special form 24/7 for the racial bonuses/features/abilities? I don't know. I'd assume though, that if you're going to be playing a Silver Dragon, you'd want to spend most of your time being a dragon, not a Fleshraker or something.

Silver Will is a bit over the top for the level you get it. It's basically mind blank (an 8th level spell) at level 14. Good point.

EDIT: Actually, since there aren't any mind affecting spells or abilities in the class anymore, it doesn't make sense anyway. I'll take it out and replace it with something else.

Frightful presence - I'd suggest allowing the Silver Dragon to turn it off. Good point.

Protective Aura - A +4 to all saves for all allies at level 16 is pretty major. This, if anything, should be a capstone.
Same issue with Bahamut's Grace. Huge bonus to saves is huge (only here it's a potential +6 to +8) It's the same thing as Divine grace, except it grants a bonus to AC as well, and it comes 15 levels later. Maybe I just don't have as much expertise as I should with high level games, but I think you're overestimating how effective that's going to be.


Lightning Breath - the range thing needs to be clarified. I can't fathom the intention.
It was intended to be able to arc from opponent to opponent so it isn't just a bog standard lightning breath coming into play at a level as late as 19.

Hyudra
2011-05-31, 02:27 PM
Overall, not bad, I can see this being a very satisfactory dragon, with some changes such as the ones I suggested.


It's the same thing as Divine grace, except it grants a bonus to AC as well, and it comes 15 levels later. Maybe I just don't have as much expertise as I should with high level games, but I think you're overestimating how effective that's going to be.

True, except I just realized that you have a +6 Charisma bonus from ability increases and you're far less MAD than an equivalent level paladin for much the same reason (ability increases) so you can afford to pump it some. Also, keep in mind you have SR, so a good # of spells are just going to fizzle against you, and then you're talking an ability granting you an easy +10 bonus on saves (of which you have two good ones) when you account for some extra gold spent on a charisma boosting item or ioun stone.

I like that the class stays relevant due to the bonuses on saves, I think it's necessary for a dragonish feel, but I think it probably needs to be toned down.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-31, 02:33 PM
Overall, not bad, I can see this being a very satisfactory dragon, with some changes such as the ones I suggested.



True, except I just realized that you have a +6 Charisma bonus from ability increases and you're far less MAD than an equivalent level paladin for much the same reason (ability increases) so you can afford to pump it some. Also, keep in mind you have SR, so a good # of spells are just going to fizzle against you, and then you're talking an ability granting you an easy +10 bonus on saves (of which you have two good ones) when you account for some extra gold spent on a charisma boosting item or ioun stone.

Unless you're using a template and start with an 18, you're not going to get a +10 unless you invest almost everything in Charisma unless I'm missing something.

18(base)+6(class)+5(Level boosts)+5(Inherent bonus from tome)+6(Item)

So, yeah, I guess you could get a +10 bonus to saves and AC, but it requires a rather significant investment, and as far as I can tell, can only be done at level 20 without a template or something. Although I may be missing something. I could also drop the boosts down to like +4 because I don't think they need to be as high as they are anyway.

Hyudra
2011-05-31, 04:17 PM
Ok, but getting away from an example of exaggeration, even a +7-8 to all saves for starting with a strong Cha score, getting the +6 from your race and spending a pittance on a moderate cost +cha item is pretty damned amazing. That's a 35-45% lower chance of being affected by a given spell effect, on top of the SR you're packing (and good saves in the two most important attributes).

And you can get away with it because your class packs full BAB and +Str and more attacks in a full attack than an equivalent level fighter-type to keep your melee more than up to date and +Con to keep you durable (while also offering nat armor).

So like I said, it just feels a bit much.

Mystic Muse
2011-05-31, 04:20 PM
Ok, but getting away from an example of exaggeration, even a +7-8 to all saves for starting with a strong Cha score, getting the +6 from your race and spending a pittance on a moderate cost +cha item is pretty damned amazing. That's a 35-45% lower chance of being affected by a given spell effect, on top of the SR you're packing (and good saves in the two most important attributes).

And you can get away with it because your class packs full BAB and +Str and more attacks in a full attack than an equivalent level fighter-type to
keep your melee more than up to date and +Con to keep you durable (while also offering nat armor).

So like I said, it just feels a bit much.

Okay. If you're really sure about this, I'll bump that to 20 while leaving the aura at level 16. While I'm not too sure about Bahamut's grace, I'm almost positive that protective aura isn't as bad as you make it out to be. I'm also decreasing the stat boosts to +4 each since I don't think there's any particular reason they need to be as high as they were.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-08, 12:52 PM
Okay, as this is important to the thread, I should have mentioned it before, and according to Roland here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9726223&postcount=8) it's okay to double post in your own thread as long as you're adding pertinent information rather than bumping the thread, I'd like to bring something up.

I'm trying to get nominations for the thread Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201135) You have to have critiqued the monster in the last two weeks to nominate it, but just saying what you like about the class qualifies.

If you don't think the class is complete, by all means, mention why. I added a bunch of stuff in terms of fluff after looking at Draken's brain in a jar, and I've added the blizzard domain as an option if the group has Frostburn. I've also added a new thing called "Silver Speed" that I though was appropriate.

Trenchfoot
2011-06-08, 04:29 PM
Now this is a pretty powerful homebrew. I think this is what I would expect of a Silver Dragon as they grow, and the paladin features make sense. Getting domain spells is good, as it makes it more than just a Fighter with scales.

I'm not sure about allowing the dragon to 'turn off' frightful presence, as it's a part of being a Big Scary Dragon. Instead, I'd mention something about party members and allies being immune to that effect after working with the Silver Dragon for a certain amount of time. Character and enemies who successfully save against the Frightful Presence once are immune to that same Silver Dragon's Frightful Presence for X amount of time. Something like that.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-08, 11:47 PM
Now this is a pretty powerful homebrew. I think this is what I would expect of a Silver Dragon as they grow, and the paladin features make sense. Getting domain spells is good, as it makes it more than just a Fighter with scales.

I'm not sure about allowing the dragon to 'turn off' frightful presence, as it's a part of being a Big Scary Dragon. Instead, I'd mention something about party members and allies being immune to that effect after working with the Silver Dragon for a certain amount of time. Character and enemies who successfully save against the Frightful Presence once are immune to that same Silver Dragon's Frightful Presence for X amount of time. Something like that.

Hmm. What amount of time seems like a good amount? Naturally if they've adventured with it for a decent period of time they'd be immune, but I don't know what a good period of time would be.

As a side note, I'm still iffy about Paladin casting. I'd prefer to replace that with a slightly more flavorful ability. I had one in mind where things like blizzards, rainstorms and sandstorms don't impede the Silver Dragon's vision. That's sadly kind of a weak ability though, and I could probably add it to some level anyway and not have it be that overpowered or anything.

I really hope the critique for every monster class I do is this thorough. Thanks a lot guys.:smallbiggrin:

However, I can't move on until this class is "Approved" And that requires 3 nominations in that thread, following the rating system they've got up apparently. Just to summarize, on a scale of 1-5, you rank playability, originality, Elegance, Flavor, and Balance.

Benly
2011-06-09, 11:27 AM
I don't think the 1-5 in four categories thing is actually required for nomination. Looking it over, it looks like the nomination method is "after you've given critiques, say 'hey, this thing looks pretty good, I nominate it'." Which is good, because mandating the 1-5 in four categories method would be pretty silly.

Hyudra
2011-06-09, 12:15 PM
I think it makes a lot of sense to have people keep to the five categories, even if it's not absolutely mandated. It ensures that you're not just getting throwaway critiques and that you get a sense of where the flaws are in your work.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-09, 12:17 PM
I think it makes a lot of sense to have people keep to the five categories, even if it's not absolutely mandated. It ensures that you're not just getting throwaway critiques and that you get a sense of where the flaws are in your work.

Yeah, exactly.

Solaris
2011-06-09, 12:51 PM
I'm not sure about allowing the dragon to 'turn off' frightful presence, as it's a part of being a Big Scary Dragon. Instead, I'd mention something about party members and allies being immune to that effect after working with the Silver Dragon for a certain amount of time. Character and enemies who successfully save against the Frightful Presence once are immune to that same Silver Dragon's Frightful Presence for X amount of time. Something like that.

Have it only affect only evil, or more broadly nongood. Less scary than a normal dragon, but he's not a full-blown dragon. Heck, you could even write so that it only affects hostile creatures, not allies.
I'd go with saving against it means you're immune to the presence for 24 hours.

Benly
2011-06-09, 01:01 PM
I think it makes a lot of sense to have people keep to the five categories, even if it's not absolutely mandated. It ensures that you're not just getting throwaway critiques and that you get a sense of where the flaws are in your work.

Well, or that you get throwaway critiques padded with arbitrary meaningless numbers. But hey, don't let me kill the buzz.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-14, 02:22 AM
Idea.

A few other monster classes got an ability where they could eat magic items and gain their benefits. For example, in this case if a dragon ate a mithril fullplate, even if it wasn't built for it, it could gain the benefits of it while in either dragon or human form.

This would also allow the dragon to enchant its natural weapons, although it would have to eat a weapon for each natural weapon it wanted an enchantment on. So it would have to eat three flaming weapons to get the flaming enchantment on its bite and claws, and would have to eat 3 adamantine weapons to get an adamantine bite/claws.

There would also be the limitation that, while you could eat another item to remove the effects of a previous one, you don't get the previous item back. So, if you decided you wanted adamantine full plate instead of mithral, you don't get the mithral full plate back.

Not sure whether this would be exceptionally prone to abuse, or a bad idea. I just think it makes sense for a dragon, and was curious whether it would work.

The items would probably appear on their alternate form so that it made sense the alternate form got the benefits. The items still could not be sold.

Stycotl
2011-06-25, 01:21 PM
Idea.

A few other monster classes got an ability where they could eat magic items and gain their benefits. For example, in this case if a dragon ate a mithril fullplate, even if it wasn't built for it, it could gain the benefits of it while in either dragon or human form.

This would also allow the dragon to enchant its natural weapons, although it would have to eat a weapon for each natural weapon it wanted an enchantment on. So it would have to eat three flaming weapons to get the flaming enchantment on its bite and claws, and would have to eat 3 adamantine weapons to get an adamantine bite/claws.

There would also be the limitation that, while you could eat another item to remove the effects of a previous one, you don't get the previous item back. So, if you decided you wanted adamantine full plate instead of mithral, you don't get the mithral full plate back.

Not sure whether this would be exceptionally prone to abuse, or a bad idea. I just think it makes sense for a dragon, and was curious whether it would work.

The items would probably appear on their alternate form so that it made sense the alternate form got the benefits. The items still could not be sold.

cool idea. there would have to be enhancement bonus limitations dependent upon class level. i'm not so keen on allowing material properties of the item to transfer over, like adamantine weapons and stuff. but if you do allow those, you might need to put level limitations on those too, depending on the kind of material.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-25, 09:50 PM
EDIT: What Draken in the post below me said.

Draken
2011-06-25, 09:51 PM
cool idea. there would have to be enhancement bonus limitations dependent upon class level. i'm not so keen on allowing material properties of the item to transfer over, like adamantine weapons and stuff. but if you do allow those, you might need to put level limitations on those too, depending on the kind of material.

That sounds... Superfluous (level limitations of equipment absorbed). The equipment would be limited by the wealth by level after all.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 01:43 AM
That sounds... Superfluous (level limitations of equipment absorbed). The equipment would be limited by the wealth by level after all.

Maybe put in a note that the DM is allowed to restrict what you can get based on wealth by level? Such as not being allowed to have a +3 bite at level 5 since that would cost 18,000 and the wealth by level of level 5 isn't 18,000.

Draken
2011-06-26, 11:04 AM
Isn't the ability based around cannibalizing magic items to benefit your own attacks? If you are in character creation you can't quite get a 18,000 gp item to cannibalize (you don't have the money) and if the DM sticks an enemy with a +3 weapon against your level 5 party...

Well, it is your loot anyway.

Hyudra
2011-06-26, 12:00 PM
Rather than cannibalizing magic items, why not have it be part of the Dragon's Hoard?

Silver Dragon's Hoard: The Silver Dragon maintains a collection of material wealth and magic items, a sprawl of coin and trinkets that fills a cave or room. Wealth is power, and the Silver Dragon can turn this wealth into personal power. The Silver Dragon can act as though it were wearing a number of magic items with a value up to half of the amount in its hoard. Further, the Silver Dragon can treat itself as though it were wearing or wielding any specific magic item in its hoard. It must get a full night's rest in its hoard at least once a week to retain these benefits.

Etc, etc.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 12:55 PM
Rather than cannibalizing magic items, why not have it be part of the Dragon's Hoard?

Silver Dragon's Hoard: It must get a full night's rest in its hoard at least once a week to retain these benefits.


That seems somewhat limiting. Especially if the dragon doesn't have a way to transport themselves back to their hoard short of walking/flying.

Hyudra
2011-06-26, 01:12 PM
That seems somewhat limiting. Especially if the dragon doesn't have a way to transport themselves back to their hoard short of walking/flying.

I very much agree. I did like it because I figured it was very flavorful and it expanded your options, but I had similar reservations. Just putting it out there for brainstorming, discussion and potentially to serve as the seed for another ability.

Remember, unlike other monsters who got the 'eat magic item to gain its powers', the Silver Dragon is very much capable of picking up and using the majority of magic items. The hoard would just be an option.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 01:35 PM
I very much agree. I did like it because I figured it was very flavorful and it expanded your options, but I had similar reservations. Just putting it out there for brainstorming, discussion and potentially to serve as the seed for another ability.

Remember, unlike other monsters who got the 'eat magic item to gain its powers', the Silver Dragon is very much capable of picking up and using the majority of magic items. The hoard would just be an option.

True, but also remember that the dragon has to divide its resources between what is can use in human form and what it can use in dragon form.

Hyudra
2011-06-26, 01:58 PM
True, but also remember that the dragon has to divide its resources between what is can use in human form and what it can use in dragon form.

Does it? Items resize to fit the wearer and the dragon isn't so reliant on having appropriate sizes or types of magically enhanced weapons on hand for each form.

What kind of differences in items for different forms are you expecting?

Draken
2011-06-26, 02:46 PM
Armor resises, but it doesn't reshape (unless it is Wild or Beasthide armor), dragon and human form would likely need different weapons as well (sword/axe/whatever vs Jaws of the Dragon/Claws of the Ripper, see Draconomicon).

Amulets, boots, gauntlets, bracers, etc... I do believe one source book lists dragons having a couple of different item slots, but I can't find it right now. Probably somewhere in draconomicon.

it is probably best to give the hoard attunement simply the fitting body slots limitations and be done with it. No real need to add dozens of limitations to something that is ultimately governed by WBL.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 02:49 PM
Does it? Items resize to fit the wearer and the dragon isn't so reliant on having appropriate sizes or types of magically enhanced weapons on hand for each form. Well for one, armor wouldn't change to fit the shape of the dragon. The dragon also needs to put some investment in its natural weapons if it wants them to be able to keep up. I'd expect a player to want to at least have decently enchanted magic weapons in their dragon form too. Lets say +3 worth of enhancement per weapon, and adamantine on each one. That's going to cost 126,000 GP. Plus, certain items like gloves or boots would have to be specifically shaped for the dragon.

Benly
2011-06-26, 05:13 PM
So I may be overlooking something obvious, but why not have equipment from human form meld into the dragon form and continue granting its magical bonuses? (Perhaps with restrictions on what slots are available to dragon form, perhaps not.) Even resizing and reshaping equipment runs into the problem that a dragon with a cape and a crown looks kind of silly in ways that a human or elf doesn't.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 05:16 PM
So I may be overlooking something obvious, but why not have equipment from human form meld into the dragon form and continue granting its magical bonuses? (Perhaps with restrictions on what slots are available to dragon form, perhaps not.) Even resizing and reshaping equipment runs into the problem that a dragon with a cape and a crown looks kind of Awesome in ways that a human or elf doesn't.

Fixed that for you. :smallwink:

Personally, the image of a dragon with a crown and a cape looks awesome to me.

Benly
2011-06-26, 05:18 PM
It doesn't say "iconic dragon" to me. If PC silver dragons are all wearing capes and hats and vests and belts, logically all dragons should be running around wearing them.

Hyudra
2011-06-26, 05:27 PM
I'm inclined to agree with Benly.

Zaydos
2011-06-26, 05:31 PM
So I may be overlooking something obvious, but why not have equipment from human form meld into the dragon form and continue granting its magical bonuses? (Perhaps with restrictions on what slots are available to dragon form, perhaps not.) Even resizing and reshaping equipment runs into the problem that a dragon with a cape and a crown looks kind of silly in ways that a human or elf doesn't.


Fixed that for you. :smallwink:

Personally, the image of a dragon with a crown and a cape looks awesome to me.

I have a PC right now that does this. It's been my avatar for a while (I've reverted back to my old one because of SMBGs temporarily). It does look kind of silly, though. Also as per the Draconomicon dragons can use gloves and boots designed for humans, although they do have draconic versions of items for every body slot (mine mainly uses the human versions because he's more concerned with looking silly in his human persona).

I will say that I don't like the idea of playing a dragon that eats magic items. Dragons are hoarders, and it goes against being a dragon to devour items.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 06:54 PM
I have a PC right now that does this. It's been my avatar for a while (I've reverted back to my old one because of SMBGs temporarily). It does look kind of silly, though. Also as per the Draconomicon dragons can use gloves and boots designed for humans, although they do have draconic versions of items for every body slot (mine mainly uses the human versions because he's more concerned with looking silly in his human persona).

I will say that I don't like the idea of playing a dragon that eats magic items. Dragons are hoarders, and it goes against being a dragon to devour items.

True.

Okay, so, you retain the bonuses from magic items other than weapons as long as the item in question was either wielded by you in human form, or is currently in your hoard. Does that work?

Benly
2011-06-26, 06:59 PM
Okay, so, you retain the bonuses from magic items other than weapons as long as the item in question was either wielded by you in human form, or is currently in your hoard. Does that work?

Mainly I'm wondering "why not weapons"? Is there a particular reason not to let the character have, say, a +3 sword in human form that transfers its +3 to her claws in dragon form?

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 07:04 PM
Mainly I'm wondering "why not weapons"? Is there a particular reason not to let the character have, say, a +3 sword in human form that transfers its +3 to her claws in dragon form?

Because I'm unsure how to balance that. I guess one natural weapon gaining the benefits would be fine, but that just seems odd to me, and I don't think the weapon boosting all of its natural weapons seems fair.

Benly
2011-06-26, 08:06 PM
Because I'm unsure how to balance that. I guess one natural weapon gaining the benefits would be fine, but that just seems odd to me, and I don't think the weapon boosting all of its natural weapons seems fair.

Well, it's possible to carry at least two weapons reasonably. Let one boost the bite and the second boost the claws, maybe. I'm not sure it's necessary for them to boost every natural attack at once.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 08:07 PM
Well, it's possible to carry at least two weapons reasonably. Let one boost the bite and the second boost the claws, maybe. I'm not sure it's necessary for them to boost every natural attack at once.

Maybe not, but I know that I personally would like to be able to boost all of my attacks if I were playing a Silver Dragon.

Benly
2011-06-26, 08:29 PM
Maybe not, but I know that I personally would like to be able to boost all of my attacks if I were playing a Silver Dragon.

Well, at that point it's cheaper to do it with a Necklace Of Natural Attacks. My understanding is that part of the concern was that a dragon's player would feel like they needed to have functionally two full kits of equipment to be functional in dragon and human form. What I was going for with that suggestion was to let the dragon retain the benefit of equipment in both forms; enhancing all the natural attacks at once is focusing wealth into the dragon form anyway so a Necklace Of Natural Attacks works fine for that.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 08:36 PM
Well, at that point it's cheaper to do it with a Necklace Of Natural Attacks.

You can't get enchantments or special materials on your natural weapons with that.

Draken
2011-06-26, 08:49 PM
I would recommend not letting the weapons transfer over to natural weapons, it sort of takes away the purpose of items such as the amulet of mighty fists, necklace of natural weapons, jaws of the dragon and claws of the ripper.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-26, 08:57 PM
I would recommend not letting the weapons transfer over to natural weapons, it sort of takes away the purpose of items such as the amulet of mighty fists, necklace of natural weapons, jaws of the dragon and claws of the ripper.

Okay. Other than that, put in alternate form that the rest of the stuff transfers over? Or improved alternate form?

Stycotl
2011-06-26, 09:46 PM
i actually really like hyudra's hoard idea; i've always struggled with the idea of a good dragon's desire to hoard treasure (hence my substantial use of VoP with good dragons), so the idea that they actually gain power from it is insanely cool and gives volumes of support for what is otherwise kind of nonsensical to me.

also, about the earlier comment of letting wealth by level determine things, i don't think that is a good point to balance by. primarily because different DMs run games with different wealth by level ratios, and in some campaigns it will have too much for what i think is appropriate, and in others, too little.

i think it is just as appropriate to put level limitations on what kind of inherent enchantments and bonuses the dragon can imbue itself with as it is to limit the same effects on a kensai or soulblade.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-28, 02:47 PM
Okay, I was talking to a playgrounder, and she said that the dragon should end up having a +8 bonus to strength, not +4, and that it should have a bigger amount of natural armor. Personally, I at least agree with her on the natural armor, and kind of see her point on the strength being higher. what do you guys think about that?

Zaydos
2011-06-28, 02:54 PM
Well they can wear barding so they get +Con higher AC than normal already (although unless they dip a full armor class they're limited to chain shirt), but I might say +1 with each size increase.

As for Strength, I'd have to go closer for a thing based on balance, but I'd say greater strength sounds appropriate fluff-wise.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-28, 03:03 PM
Well they can wear barding so they get +Con higher AC than normal already (although unless they dip a full armor class they're limited to chain shirt), but I might say +1 with each size increase.

They can't even wear chain shirt barding if they don't find some way to get light armor proficiency. Which, yeah they can do, but it can get kind of expensive.

Zaydos
2011-06-28, 03:06 PM
They can't even wear chain shirt barding if they don't find some way to get light armor proficiency. Which, yeah they can do, but it can get kind of expensive.

Mithril, cost gets high there (something like 8000 GP for a huge dragon), there's also an enhancement in MiC that reduces ACP by another 1.

Benly
2011-06-28, 04:52 PM
Well they can wear barding so they get +Con higher AC than normal already (although unless they dip a full armor class they're limited to chain shirt), but I might say +1 with each size increase.

On the other hand, relying on barding brings you back to "your dragon has to be wearing a shirt to be effective". I dunno, if I were to decide "I want to play a dragon" I don't generally have a chain shirt on that mental image.

Hyudra
2011-06-28, 05:24 PM
Mithril, cost gets high there (something like 8000 GP for a huge dragon), there's also an enhancement in MiC that reduces ACP by another 1.

Magic items resize to fit the wearer. So the only extra cost for such is for unusual body shape.

Zaydos
2011-06-28, 08:27 PM
On the other hand, relying on barding brings you back to "your dragon has to be wearing a shirt to be effective". I dunno, if I were to decide "I want to play a dragon" I don't generally have a chain shirt on that mental image.

Problem is once you build it assuming people will play nice things break down. Armor also doesn't look silly (unlike other items).


Magic items resize to fit the wearer. So the only extra cost for such is for unusual body shape.

DMG says clothing and jewelry resizes. Weapons don't (sizing quality), and armor is specified as being sized in the following paragraph in the DMG.

Benly
2011-06-28, 09:12 PM
Problem is once you build it assuming people will play nice things break down. Armor also doesn't look silly (unlike other items).


If you want to give it some teeth, you could have the scales provide a certain amount of armor bonus in addition to their NA bonus, thus not stacking with normal armor unless the player wants to go out of her way to get heavy enough armor to override the inherent armor bonus.

Zaydos
2011-06-28, 09:14 PM
If you want to give it some teeth, you could have the scales provide a certain amount of armor bonus in addition to their NA bonus, thus not stacking with normal armor unless the player wants to go out of her way to get heavy enough armor to override the inherent armor bonus.

Now that I think is a good suggestion (strangely enough harkens back to 2e where natural armor and armor didn't stack, but if you had a natural AC better than that your armor provided it improved your AC by 1).

Mystic Muse
2011-06-28, 09:32 PM
So, what amount of armor bonus?

Zaydos
2011-06-28, 09:42 PM
I'd say make it scaling and eventually be +4 armor and a +5 enhancement bonus to its armor (such as from wearing magic armor) or make enhancement bonuses of magic armor worn in human form apply in dragon form. Actually you could just make it so whatever armor they're wearing in human form carries over as part of their scales in dragon form.

This leaves it (till epic levels and gargantuan size) with an AC of Con higher than a character proficient in and wearing light armor, and Con -4 higher than one with heavy armor. At high levels this means it should have something like +5 to +9 above a light armor character with the same Dex investment, and +1 to +5 above a heavy armor character assuming no Dex investment (this assumes Item of Con +6). These are fairly good numbers.

Note the first suggestion (with enhancement boni) effectively saves them 26100 GP on a +5 mithril chainshirt.

Delivery Ninja
2011-06-29, 01:14 AM
I think that allowing the equipment to 'carry over' between forms once the dragon hits Improved Alternate Form at level 9 would probably be the simplest solution, myself.

Although, then it does seem to come a little late... Would something like that be considered overpowered at level 1? Tibbits already get a similar, if weaker, ability, and since this is both a class and a race at the same time...

Mystic Muse
2011-06-29, 08:44 AM
I think that allowing the equipment to 'carry over' between forms once the dragon hits Improved Alternate Form at level 9 would probably be the simplest solution, myself.

Although, then it does seem to come a little late... Would something like that be considered overpowered at level 1? Tibbits already get a similar, if weaker, ability, and since this is both a class and a race at the same time...

The thing is, I'm also working on other dragons who don't get alternate form, so I'd like a method that work for all of them.

Delivery Ninja
2011-06-29, 12:47 PM
Ah, I see. Good to know you've got more dragons lined up, since I really like what you've done with the Silver one thus far. ^_^

As far as the progression on some sort of inherent armor ability goes, your best bet for coming up with one would probably be to look at pre-existing abilities for clues on how to handle it. The Ancestral Relic feat from Book of Exalted Deeds, for example, might be a good model to base it off of.

I also think you've got a good flavor option for it in the fact that D&D dragons are known for embedding things in their hide. Rather than sacrificing items and gold by eating them or keeping them in a hoard somewhere, it wedges them between its scales and gets an extra layer of magical protection in the bargain. Sort of a 'treasure hoard on the go', as it were. :smalltongue:

Mystic Muse
2011-06-29, 01:06 PM
Ah, I see. Good to know you've got more dragons lined up, since I really like what you've done with the Silver one thus far. ^_^


Thank you. :smallsmile:

Okay, I tried to do something with "Encrusted hide" It ends up as a +11 bonus at level 19, and scales with level rather than HD.

Stycotl
2011-06-29, 01:40 PM
If you want to give it some teeth, you could have the scales provide a certain amount of armor bonus in addition to their NA bonus, thus not stacking with normal armor unless the player wants to go out of her way to get heavy enough armor to override the inherent armor bonus.

great suggestion. and good job implementing it, soft serve.


Improved Alternate Form (Su): At level 9 The Silver Dragon retains the following in any form if she wishes.
Spoiler

Silver Ingenuity
Silver Dragon SLAs
Detect Evil.
Protective Aura
Boon of Bahamut
Domain
Paladin Casting
Bahamut's Grace.


Perfected Alternate Form (Ex): At 20th level, nothing short of epic magic or the powers of a deity can see the Silver Dragon for what she really is. In addition, Alternate form can now be used as a free action, and she gains a bonus on disguise checks equal to her HD. Lastly, Alternate form and improved alternate form become extraordinary abilities instead of supernatural.

ok, this is looking very nice. i want to play a silver dragon sometime now.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-29, 01:46 PM
great suggestion. and good job implementing it, soft serve. Thanks.






ok, this is looking very nice. i want to play a silver dragon sometime now.

Well, hopefully I can get another nomination soon then.

Delivery Ninja
2011-06-29, 02:06 PM
Thank you. :smallsmile:

Okay, I tried to do something with "Encrusted hide" It ends up as a +11 bonus at level 19, and scales with level rather than HD.

Not bad. It might be a good idea to lower the progression to once every three or four levels in exchange for allowing the hide to be magically-enhanced, though.

Since it already gets a Natural Armor bonus at level 1, you could do something along the lines of getting a +1 Armor bonus to AC at 3rd level, and having it increase by one every three levels thereafter. It'd be a +6 total Armor bonus, and with a +5 enhancement bonus it'd be a total of +11 to AC. Same basic end result, albeit at 18 instead of 19, and in exchange for not being completely free, you get to add other useful armor properties on, if you want.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-29, 02:12 PM
Not bad. It might be a good idea to lower the progression to once every three or four levels in exchange for allowing the hide to be magically-enhanced, though.

Since it already gets a Natural Armor bonus at level 1, you could do something along the lines of getting a +1 armored hide at 3rd level, and having it increase by one every three levels thereafter. It'd be a +6 total Armor bonus, and with a +5 enhancement bonus it'd be a total of +11 to AC. Same basic end result, albeit at 18 instead of 19, and in exchange for not being completely free, you get to add other useful armor properties on, if you want.

Well, it can already get enhancement bonuses anyway. Or it will once I get the "Hoard" ability done. Also, it's just an armor bonus which shouldn't be that big of a deal. It doesn't boost touch AC, and a lot of abilities don't even target AC at higher levels.

Zaydos
2011-06-29, 02:21 PM
Well, it can already get enhancement bonuses anyway. Or it will once I get the "Hoard" ability done. Also, it's just an armor bonus which shouldn't be that big of a deal. It doesn't boost touch AC, and a lot of abilities don't even target AC at higher levels.

But most monsters (read not PCs) still actually deal with AC and a large boost to your AC (in this case Con +3 over everyone else's) is still problematic. An Abjurant Champion using Greater Luminous Armor will have comparable (but still lower) AC against melee attacks, and significantly lower against melee. A polymorph using wizard will have a better AC but no one else will even compare (minimum of 8 less which means if the high AC guy is hit on a 10 you are probably not going to be hit at all).

And coupled with the 20th level ability your AC is another 5+ points meaning you cannot be hit at all by most enemies and your saves will have Charisma to them as well which furthers the problem since it gives you high defenses against all types of attacks.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-29, 02:23 PM
But most monsters (read not PCs) still actually deal with AC and a large boost to your AC (in this case Con +3 over everyone else's) is still problematic. An Abjurant Champion using Greater Luminous Armor will have comparable (but still lower) AC against melee attacks, and significantly lower against melee. A polymorph using wizard will have a better AC but no one else will even compare (average of 8+ less which means if the high AC guy is hit on a 10 you are probably not going to be hit at all).

Okay, so +6 as was suggested then or what?

Zaydos
2011-06-29, 02:32 PM
Okay, so +6 as was suggested then or what?

+6 is definitely more reasonable, although I'd still suggest keep it closer in line with light armor since you already have 2 stats (eventually 3) to AC so your AC won't be any worse than an AC focused melee combatant already. Although this also depends on what you're balancing against.

Crusader, Sorcerer, or higher.

A crusader is going to have +13 armor bonus and +3 Dex bonus assuming +5 Mithril Full-Plate.

You'll have a +6 better AC off the bat (assuming 12 starting Con) since you'll both need the HP from an amulet of health anyway. Then you'll have Dex modifier (same or better). So assuming it got +2 and could be enhanced (if it can't be there are other ways to get it enhanced) you'd have the same AC as a crusader who didn't sink feats into better AC. With +4 you have 2 better, or the same as a crusader who uses 2 feats on AC. With +6 you have 4 better and the same as a crusader who uses 3 feats on AC and takes the maneuverability hit of wearing Mechanus Gear Armor/spends a 4th feat on AC. With +8 you have 2 better than a crusader can get. With +10 4 better. With +11 5 better than the guy who sank more than half his feats into AC.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-29, 02:40 PM
+6 is definitely more reasonable, although I'd still suggest keep it closer in line with light armor since you already have 2 stats (eventually 3) to AC so your AC won't be any worse than an AC focused melee combatant already. Although this also depends on what you're balancing against.

Crusader, Sorcerer, or higher.


Trying to balance against Crusader and other tier 3s.

Delivery Ninja
2011-06-29, 03:06 PM
Hmm. Keeping it in line with light armor...

+2 at 3rd level, +3 at 9th, +4 at 15th-18th?

Or, actually, hang on. Zaydos, did your calculations take into account the fact that the size increases decrease AC? If not, the +6 progression should probably be pretty balanced, overall.

Zaydos
2011-06-29, 03:12 PM
Hmm. Keeping it in line with light armor...

+2 at 3rd level, +3 at 9th, +4 at 18th?

Or, actually, hang on. Zaydos, did your calculations take into account the fact that the size increases decrease AC? If not, the +6 progression should probably be pretty balanced, overall.

Yeah. Or more technically whenever it grows a size category its Natural Armor increases by 1 in addition to their Con negating the penalty to regular AC and I simply used Con (which with +4 from level up and +6 item since frontliners get that item by high levels regardless is at minimum a +5 bonus, and probably more).

As a note, though, I'd advice against a scaling non-enhancement bonus or have it reach max at relatively low levels. From a fluff perspective a scaling bonus that doesn't reach max till high levels is awesome (Smaug, Fafnir) but from a crunch it means that your AC will be too low at low levels and too high at high levels because armor bonus is mostly static past 2nd level (best armor possible) and it is the other bonuses (enhancement to armor, enhancement to natural armor, deflection, etc) which scale.

Delivery Ninja
2011-06-29, 03:17 PM
Ah, so maybe starting off with the +2 at level 1, and having it increase at levels 3 and either 5 or 6, then?

Mystic Muse
2011-06-29, 04:00 PM
Okay, lowered it to the equivalent of a chain shirt. That better?

Please remember to nominate the class if you think it's complete enough to play.

Delivery Ninja
2011-06-29, 04:41 PM
Yep. ^_^ Looks perfectly fine to me. And now, in order to make a nomination, I simply need to offer up a critique... Admittedly, I'm not very good at those, though.

Originality: While clearly based off of Oslecamo's original Silver Dragon monster class, this version does an excellent job differentiating itself from its predecessor, occupying a significantly different party role and really finding its own separate identity in the process. 4/5

Balance: Tier 3 was stated as the intended balance level of this class, and it manages to rest solidly at that Tier through all 20 levels of the class, if sometimes on the higher end of Tier 3. 4/5

Flavor: An excellent take on the basic concept of the Silver Dragon, this monster class does away with the generic draconic spellcasting in favor of abilities that emphasize its control over storms, great dislike for injustice and evil, and tendency to walk in disguise amongst 'lesser' races. 5/5

Elegance: Grammar and spelling are excellent, and aside from minor mistakes here and there, the actual rules of the class are laid out clearly and consistently. Layout is good, and the picture used was well-chosen. 4/5

Playability: The class is extremely playable, and looks like it would be an absolute blast to bring to a table. 5/5

I'll probably add in a few extra comments later. For the moment, I've got an appointment to get to.

Irbis
2011-06-29, 05:40 PM
Eh, I don't know why you balance it against chain shirt, seeing dragons evoke picture of very heavy armour, that is, plate. I mean, Warforged can have +8 armor adamantine plating (meaning impassable DR) on level 1, so you should keep plate progression, IMHO. It won't make them Tier 2 anyway.

Mystic Muse
2011-06-29, 05:44 PM
Eh, I don't know why you balance it against chain shirt, seeing dragons evoke picture of very heavy armour, that is, plate. I mean, Warforged can have +8 armor adamantine plating (meaning impassable DR) on level 1, so you should keep plate progression, IMHO. It won't make them Tier 2 anyway.

As others have pointed out, it's because of the natural armor. A +4 Constitution brings that up to the equivalent of plate at level 5 or higher, and it can get higher easy.

Irbis
2011-06-29, 06:07 PM
As others have pointed out, it's because of the natural armor. A +4 Constitution brings that up to the equivalent of plate at level 5 or higher, and it can get higher easy.

Hmm, okay. Still, the original version of the class struck me as rather MAD, so expecting high con might not be a given. Human melee classes had easier time keeping all needed stats high. But you might have a point.

Anyway, to me, dragons are the epitome of creation, not equivalents of guy in a shirt, but I'm not the one writing it :smalltongue:

Zaydos
2011-06-29, 07:00 PM
Hmm, okay. Still, the original version of the class struck me as rather MAD, so expecting high con might not be a given. Human melee classes had easier time keeping all needed stats high. But you might have a point.

Anyway, to me, dragons are the epitome of creation, not equivalents of guy in a shirt, but I'm not the one writing it :smalltongue:

My calculations expected a 12 Con, not a high one and it still was better than heavy armor without heavy feat investiture.

Solaris
2011-06-29, 07:02 PM
Perhaps a bonus that scales based on the value of the hoard. The dragon might, instead of waltzing down to the Magic-Mart, place loot in its hoard to gain bonuses rather like those gained from magic items of equivalent value.

Delivery Ninja
2011-06-29, 10:49 PM
Perhaps a bonus that scales based on the value of the hoard. The dragon might, instead of waltzing down to the Magic-Mart, place loot in its hoard to gain bonuses rather like those gained from magic items of equivalent value.

I believe Soft Serve is already planning something along those lines, actually.


Well, it can already get enhancement bonuses anyway. Or it will once I get the "Hoard" ability done.

Only for the armor, admittedly, but I'm not sure how other items would be handled.

Mystic Muse
2011-07-24, 02:28 AM
Pyroclastic Dragon
(from Draconomicon)




Description & Details: A Pyroclastic Dragon looks like somebody took a volcano, lava and all, and turned it into a dragon. Its hide is made of rock with flowing magma underneath, its wings appear to be made of ash, and the claws and other sharp ends tend to look like they've been made of obsidian. A Pyroclastic Dragon's eyes look as if they've been formed out of magma, and instead of a frill like many dragons, it has a series of stone like plates going down its back.


Religion: Most Pyroclastic Dragons will serve gods of the Draconic pantheon. Those few who deign to break from this tradition will worship gods with similar ideals to their own or the lords of Gehenna.


Ecology/Background: Pyroclastic Dragons are native to the bleak eternity of Gehenna, an endless plane of screaming souls and volcanos. Pyroclastic Dragon lairs are often located inside or near a volcano due to their habit of Swimming in lava, and their love of the heat.

Other Classes: Pyroclastic dragons tend to be quick to act and hot headed. As such, they prefer adventuring with classes like the Barbarian and tend to disdain studious classes like cloistered clerics or wizards.

Favored Class: Barbarian.

HD: d12
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1| +2| +0| +2|Pyroclastic Body, Hoard, Pyroclastic Dragon SLAs, Volcanic scales +2
2| +2| +3| +0| +3| Keen senses, Pyroclastic Breath
3| +3| +3| +1| +3| Blindsense, Sound Burst, Draconic Roar, Volcanic Scales +3
4| +4| +4| +1| +4| Pyrotechnics, Pyroclastic resistances, +10 Speed, +1 Strength
5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Growth, Magma Body, Volcanic Scales +4
6| +6| +5| +2| +5| Claws, wings, Shatter, Strength +1
7| +7| +5| +2| +5| Destruction Breath, See no Evil,
8| +8| +6| +2| +6| Wall of Fire, Improved Sunder Constitution +1
9| +9| +6| +3| +6| Immobile, Volcanic Ash breath, +1 Strength a
10| +10| +7| +3| +7| Shout, Wall of Stone, +10 speed, Charisma +1
11| +11| +7| +3| +7| Wing Attack, Tail Slap, Destruction Body, +1 Strength
12| +12| +8| +4| +8| Growth, Pyroclastic Scales, Frightful presence, Crush,
13| +13| +8| +4| +8| Hear No Evil, Gehenna Sunder, +1 Strength,
14| +14| +9| +4| +9| Power Word Stun, Volcano, +1 Strength
15| +15| +9| +5| +9| Fire Storm, Pyroclastic Magic,
16| +16| +10| +5| +10| Incendiary Cloud, Pyroclastic Assault, +1 Strength
17| +17| +10| +5| +10| Meteor Swarm, Pyroclastic Immunity
18| +18| +11| +6| +11| Growth, Tail Sweep, +1 Strength
19| +19| +11| +6| +11| Earthquake,
20| +20| +12| +6| +12| Magma Body, Vesuvius, +1 Strength, +1 Charisma, +1 Constitution

[/table]

4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, jump, spot, listen, Search, appraise, Diplomacy, intimidate, Knowledge(all skills, taken individually), Use Magic Device


Proficiencies: A Pyroclastic dragon isn't proficient with any armor or weapons, besides Her own natural weapons.

Pyroclastic Body (Ex):The Pyroclastic dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, Bite 1d8+Strength modifier damage, a 40 foot base land speed, a climb and burrow speed equal to ¾ Her land speed each, and medium size. The Pyroclastic dragon has wings but they're too weak to do anything for now. Her claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for anything a human hand could do.

The Pyroclastic dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to 1+Constitution modifier. Whenever the Pyroclastic dragon grows one size category, Her natural armor increases by a further 1.

The Pyroclastic dragon has resistance to fire damage equal to her total hit dice.

Hoard (Su):
Many wonder at the reason for a dragon's hoard. Many suspects it's because dragons are greedy, but what about the good ones? While good is still susceptible to greed, it seems suspicious that all dragons tend to have hoards, regardless of type.

The truth is, a dragon draws power from its hoard. Just as a knight become more powerful with a +5 sword than the rusted pitted one he found in a shed out back, dragons become more powerful with the more wealth they accumulate. It can be used in many ways depending on the type of item it is.


Gold: Gold can be used to gain the benefits of any item equal to half the amount put towards it. So, it would cost 50,000 GP to gain the benefits of a ring of evasion instead of 25,000. However, the benefit is that the gold can be un-attuned from specific benefits, go back to the hoard's total, and be re-attuned to a new benefit of some sort. The benefits of this are treated as if the dragon were actually wearing the item, so you can't attune to a piece of armor in your hoard, actually be wearing armor, and gain the benefits of both for example. Additionally, this cannot be used to gain expendable items such as wands or scrolls.
Weapons: The Dragon can gain the benefits of weapons in its hoard. With each weapon, the dragon chooses one of its own natural weapons, or a pair of natural weapons (Such as claws or wings) the natural weapon gains the benefits of the manufactured weapon for as long as the dragon is attuned to it. This includes the benefits of any material the weapon is made out of, such as adamantine.
Armor: A dragon attuned to a piece of armor is treated as if it were wearing the armor. The armor does not have to be the same size as the dragon.
clothing: Items such as necklaces, rings, boots and such are treated as if the dragon were wearing them. Most dragons prefer not to wear them, since a dragon with a crown and a cape looks silly.

Un-attuning an item is a free action. Attuning to items in your hoard can only be done during rest, and takes 8 hours.

However, despite being the Dragon's greatest strength, the hoard is also its greatest weakness. A dragon must designate specific spots as belong to its hoard, and if the items are taken out of the hoard, the dragon no longer has the benefits of the item. This is the reason why many dragons guard their hoards with their very lives, or set up dozens of traps for interlopers.

There are other benefits to attuning to an item instead of simply wearing it of course. Attuned items cannot be sundered, except by finding that item in the hoard and sundering it. While the benefits from attunement go away in an antimagic field, they come back once the dragon has left said field. While Disjunction will break the attunement on items, it will not actually destroy the items the dragon is attuned to, and the dragon can re-attune itself to the items during its next 8 hour rest.

Additionally, the previous items can be attuned to mundane items it has. An adamantine Greatsword can be attuned to an adamantine warhammer, as long as there are no conflicting enhancements, and the warhammer will gain the benefits of the enhancements, and any special materials the weapon is made out of. This also applies to other mundane items. You cannot have the same weapon attuned to a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon at the same time.

Lastly, hoards cannot be chosen willy nilly. Designating an area as your hoard requires you to spend 8 hours at the place to be considered your hoard. Choosing a place as your hoard is an ancient magic and cannot be disturbed, or it has to be redone. A player is allowed to choose to have a specific spot as their hoard before the campaign begins.




Pyroclastic Dragon SLAs (Su): The Pyroclastic Dragon can use a number of SLAs starting at level 1.

Level 1: Produce Flame 1/day per HD

Level 3: Sound Burst 1/day per HD

Level 6: Pyrotechnics and Shatter 1/day per 2 HD each

Level 8: Wall of Fire 1/day per 2 HD

Level 10:Shout, Wall of Stone, 1/day per 2 HD each. In addition, all SLAs she has now and all SLAs she would gain in the future due to this class change from SR:Yes to SR: No.

Level 14: Power Word, Stun, 1/day per 3 HD

Level 15:Fire Storm, 1/day per 4 HD

Level 16:Incendiary Cloud, 1/day per 5 HD

Level 17:Meteor Swarm, 1/day per 6 HD

level 19: Earthquake 1/day per 7 HD.

Volcanic hide (Ex):
Dragons simply love sleeping in their hoards when they have the opportunity. This tends to make things like gold and jewels stick within their hide, granting them additional armor. The Dragon gets a +2 armor bonus to armor class, and gains an additional +1 to this figure at level 3 and 5 for a total of a +4 armor bonus.

Keen Senses (Ex): At level 2, the Pyroclastic dragon's senses become far stronger. She sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. She also has darkvision out to 120 feet

Pyroclastic Breath (Su): At level 2 the Pyroclastic dragon gains a breath weapon. The breath weapon is a 30 foot cone dealing 1d6 damage/HD, half fire and half sonic damage, with a reflex save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier) for half damage that takes 1d4 rounds to recharge*. The cone increases by 5 feet for every HD she gains from here.

Blindsense (Ex): At level 3 the Pyroclastic dragon gains Blindsense as the normal ability, range 60 feet.


Draconic Roar (Ex): At level 3, even a Dragon's roar is a threatening weapon. As a Swift action the Pyroclastic Dragon can emit an astounding roar. Doing so deals half her breath weapon damage in Sonic damage. A successful Fortitude save (DC 10+ Half HD+ Constitution modifier) negates the damage. Once a Silver Dragon uses her Draconic roar she can't use it again until after she uses one of her breath weapons. The Roar affects all creatures within 30 feet. Dragons are immune to the effects of the Draconic Roar ability.


Speed Increase (Ex): At level 4 and again at level 10 the Pyroclastic dragon gains a +10 foot bonus to Her movement speeds. This bonus applies to movement speeds gained after this point as well.


Pyroclastic Resistances (Ex): At 4th level, the Pyroclastic Dragon gains immunity to fire damage, and resistance to Sonic damage equal to her HD.

Growth (Ex):
At level 5 the Dragon may grow a size category (Ordinarily to large size).
At level 12 she may grow another size category (Ordinarily to huge size).
At level 18 she may grow another size category (Ordinarily to Gargantuan size)
At 22 HD she may grow another size category (Ordinarily to Colossal)

Her AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.


Magma Body (Ex): At 5th level, the dragon's body itself starts to change into magma. She gains light fortification, and a bonus on saves against poison, stun, massive damage, and polymorph effects equal to Her HD.

Wings (Ex): At level 6 the Pyroclastic Dragon becomes able to fly at a speed of 10 feet per HD, with poor maneuverability. The wings are still not strong enough to be used as weapon.

Claws (Ex): At level 6, the Pyroclastic Dragon's claws are now strong enough to be used as weapons. They are secondary natural weapons that deal 1d6+1/2 strength modifier damage.


Ability Score Increase (Ex): The Pyroclastic Dragon's ability scores increase by the shown amount at the following levels.

{table]Level | Bonus gained
4|+1 Strength
6|+1 Strength
8|+1 Constitution
9|+1 Strength
10|+1 Charisma
11|+1 Strength
13|+1 Strength
16|+1 Strength
18|+1 Strength
20|+1 Strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
[/table]
for a total increase of +8 strength, +2 Constitution and +2 Charisma at level 20


Destruction Breath (Su): At level 7, the Pyroclastic dragon gains another breath weapon. The weapon is a 130 foot line usable once every 1d4 rounds*. Creatures hit are reduced to ash unless they succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier,) The line increases by 10 feet per HD.

See No Evil (Ex): - The Pyroclastic Dragon is used to dwelling amid exploding geysers of magma. At 7th level, the middling effects of spells such as Pyrotechnics and Glitterdust can simply be shrugged off. The Pyroclastic Dragon is immune to the Blind status effect. She is still affected normally by lighting conditions and darkness.

Improved Sunder (Ex): at 8th level the Pyroclastic dragon gains the Improved Sunder feat even if she does not meet the prerequisites.

Immobile (Ex): At level 9, the Pyroclastic Dragon is sturdy as a mountain and she cannot be forced to move against her will. Additionally, At 15 HD, the dragon cannot be the subject of any spell that would cause her to change planes or dimensions against her will, and cannot be the subject of any teleport spell against her will.


Volcanic Ash Breath (Suu): At 9th level, the dragon gets a breath weapon modification. By adding 2 rounds to the recharge time of her Pyroclastic breath, she can create a cloud of volcanic ash in the area of her breath weapon. This cloud lasts for three rounds before dispersing. Creatures caught within the blast for one round are sickened if they fail a fortitude save(DC 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier). Creatures caught within the area for two rounds are blinded unless they succeed on another save, and creatures caught within the area for all 3 rounds are nauseated unless they succeed on a third save. Later effects such as being nauseated only apply if the creatures fail their previous saves. The effects of failed saves last for three rounds after the cloud disperses, or the creature gets out of the area, whichever comes first.


Destruction Body (Su): At 11th level the Pyroclastic dragon deals an additional 1d6 fire damage with each successful natural attack. This extra damage increases one die step for every 3 HD gained from here.

Tail Slap (Ex): at level 11 The Pyroclastic Dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 +1 and 1/2 strength modifier damage, already taking in account large size. The tail slap is considered a secondary natural weapon.


Wing Attack (Ex): At level 11 the Pyroclastic Dragon's wings have developed to the point that they can each be used as secondary natural attacks dealing 1d4+ 1/2 strength modifier damage.

Frightful Presence (Ex): at 12th level the dragon gains frightful presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever she attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half her level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than her. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Charisma modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Pyroclastic Scales (Ex): at 12th level the Pyroclastic dragon gains SR equal to Her HD+11 and gains DR/magic and good equal to half Her HD.

Hear No Evil (Ex): Having spent hundreds of years in Gehenna, hearing the constantly exploding volcanoes and the souls screaming and moaning in despair, the Pyroclastic Dragon is practiced in ignoring what she does not wish to hear. At 13th level she may treat herself as being under the effects of a silence spell when such would be beneficial to her.

Gehenna Sunder (Su):: At 13th level, In addition to the Improved Sunder feat, When attempting to sunder an item (Or construct) the Dragon's weapons count as having a shatter effect upon them. The caster level for the effect is equal to the Dragon's HD.


Volcano (Ex): At 14th level the Pyroclastic dragon has sudden bursts of activity. She may take an extra standard or move action on her turn, but after taking it she needs to wait 5 turns before using this ability again. At 20 HD she may instead take an extra full-round action.

Pyroclastic Magic (Su): At 15th level, whenever the Pyroclastic dragon uses an SLA that would deal fire damage, she may have half the damage dealt be sonic. In addition Her caster level for all [Fire] and [Sonic] SLAs increases by 2, and now ignore any Caster level limits on the SLAs.


Pyroclastic Assault (Ex): At 16th level, the Pyroclastic dragon may charge at an enemy even if there's non-worked non-magical ground, earth and/or stone between them, automatically destroying the obstacles. This includes any material through which she can burrow and Stone Walls. The dragon must still find Her opponent’s position through some means.

Pyroclastic Immunity: At level 17, the Pyroclastic Dragon becomes immune to Sonic damage.



Tail sweep (Ex):This special attack allows a dragon of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (or 40 feet for a Colossal dragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the dragon’s space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the dragon. A tail sweep automatically deals 2d6 plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon).

Volcanic body(Ex): At level 20, The Pyroclastic dragon is now fully immune to poison, stun, massive damage, and polymorph effects against Her will and has 100% fortification

Vesuvius (Su): At level 20, the dragon's attacks have developed far past mundane fire and sound. All of the dragon's abilities derived from this class that deal fire or sonic damage ignore immunity or resistance to Sonic and Fire damage, except for the sonic and fire immunity of other Pyroclastic dragons.

* Breath weapons cannot be used while waiting for another breath weapon to recharge.


Comments

1. The dragon does not have age categories.
2. This was intended to be balanced with Tier 3 classes.
3. The reason some of the abilities scale with hit dice so that the dragon's abilities aren't terrible if it decides to multiclass or if the dragon is in a campaign that goes to higher levels than 20.
4. In taking this you also give up your choice of race.
5. You do not have to be the traditional alignment for your race.
6. This is supposed to be playable with just the SRD allowed.
7. You can multi-class out at any level. You are not locked into taking levels from this class.
8. I know this is kind of old news since I just did a dragon, but I had this finished for the contest so I figured I'd post it here as well. Next I'm going to go for a change of pace and do the Frost Worm.
9. The Pyroclastic didn't get an entry nearly as detailed as the Chromatics or Metallics so some of the stuff was made on the spot.


changelog

Change the size category growths to "May"

standardized knowledge skill

Mystic Muse
2011-08-18, 02:37 AM
Alright, here's that hoard ability I promised. Please evaluate and critique honestly.

Many wonder at the reason for a dragon's hoard. Many suspects it's because dragons are greedy, but what about the good ones? While good is still susceptible to greed, it seems suspicious that all dragons tend to have hoards, regardless of type.

The truth is, a dragon draws power from its hoard. Just as a knight become more powerful with a +5 sword than the rusted pitted one he found in a shed out back, dragons become more powerful with the more wealth they accumulate. It can be used in many ways depending on the type of item it is.


Gold: Gold can be used to gain the benefits of any item equal to half the amount put towards it. So, it would cost 50,000 GP to gain the benefits of a ring of evasion instead of 25,000. However, the benefit is that the gold can be un-attuned from specific benefits, go back to the hoard's total, and be re-attuned to a new benefit of some sort. The benefits of this are treated as if the dragon were actually wearing the item, so you can't attune to a piece of armor in your hoard, actually be wearing armor, and gain the benefits of both for example.
Weapons: The Dragon can gain the benefits of weapons in its hoard. With each weapon, the dragon chooses one of its own natural weapons, or a pair of natural weapons (Such as claws or wings) the natural weapon gains the benefits of the manufactured weapon for as long as the dragon is attuned to it. This includes the benefits of any material the weapon is made out of, such as adamantine.
Armor: A dragon attuned to a piece of armor is treated as if it were wearing the armor. The armor does not have to be the same size as the dragon.
clothing: Items such as necklaces, rings, boots and such are treated as if the dragon were wearing them. Most dragons prefer not to wear them, since a dragon with a crown and a cape looks silly.

Un-attuning an item is a free action. Attuning to items in your hoard can only be done during rest, and takes 8 hours.

However, despite being the Dragon's greatest strength, the hoard is also its greatest weakness. A dragon must designate specific spots as belong to its hoard, and if the items are taken out of the hoard, the dragon no longer has the benefits of the item. This is the reason why many dragons guard their hoards with their very lives, or set up dozens of traps for interlopers.

There are other benefits to attuning to an item instead of simply wearing it of course. Attuned items cannot be sundered, except by finding that item in the hoard and sundering it. While the benefits from attunement go away in an antimagic field, they come back once the dragon has left said field. While Disjunction will break the attunement on items, it will not actually destroy the items the dragon is attuned to, and the dragon can re-attune itself to the items during its next 8 hour rest.

Lastly, hoards cannot be chosen willy nilly. Designating an area as your hoard requires you to spend 8 hours at the place to be considered your hoard. Choosing a place as your hoard is an ancient magic and cannot be disturbed, or it has to be redone. A player is allowed to choose to have a specific spot as their hoard before the campaign begins.


Is there any particular monster you guys would like me to do next? It seems you weren't exactly thrilled with the Pyroclastic. :smalltongue:

Lastly, I'm thinking of taking away the "Does not stack with anything else." restriction on Bahamut's grace. By the time you can even get it to stack with things like divine grace, it's likely to be epic levels which are broken in half anyway, or gestalt where I doubt it would be a big deal at level 20.

Stycotl
2011-08-19, 01:43 PM
Alright, here's that hoard ability I promised. Please evaluate and critique honestly.

Many wonder at the reason for a dragon's hoard. Many suspects it's because dragons are greedy, but what about the good ones? While good is still susceptible to greed, it seems suspicious that all dragons tend to have hoards, regardless of type.

The truth is, a dragon draws power from its hoard. Just as a knight become more powerful with a +5 sword than the rusted pitted one he found in a shed out back, dragons become more powerful with the more wealth they accumulate. It can be used in many ways depending on the type of item it is.


Gold: Gold can be used to gain the benefits of any item equal to half the amount put towards it. So, it would cost 50,000 GP to gain the benefits of a ring of evasion instead of 25,000. However, the benefit is that the gold can be un-attuned from specific benefits, go back to the hoard's total, and be re-attuned to a new benefit of some sort. The benefits of this are treated as if the dragon were actually wearing the item, so you can't attune to a piece of armor in your hoard, actually be wearing armor, and gain the benefits of both for example.
Weapons: The Dragon can gain the benefits of weapons in its hoard. With each weapon, the dragon chooses one of its own natural weapons, or a pair of natural weapons (Such as claws or wings) the natural weapon gains the benefits of the manufactured weapon for as long as the dragon is attuned to it. This includes the benefits of any material the weapon is made out of, such as adamantine.
Armor: A dragon attuned to a piece of armor is treated as if it were wearing the armor. The armor does not have to be the same size as the dragon.
clothing: Items such as necklaces, rings, boots and such are treated as if the dragon were wearing them. Most dragons prefer not to wear them, since a dragon with a crown and a cape looks silly.

Un-attuning an item is a free action. Attuning to items in your hoard can only be done during rest, and takes 8 hours.

However, despite being the Dragon's greatest strength, the hoard is also its greatest weakness. A dragon must designate specific spots as belong to its hoard, and if the items are taken out of the hoard, the dragon no longer has the benefits of the item. This is the reason why many dragons guard their hoards with their very lives, or set up dozens of traps for interlopers.

There are other benefits to attuning to an item instead of simply wearing it of course. Attuned items cannot be sundered, except by finding that item in the hoard and sundering it. While the benefits from attunement go away in an antimagic field, they come back once the dragon has left said field. While Disjunction will break the attunement on items, it will not actually destroy the items the dragon is attuned to, and the dragon can re-attune itself to the items during its next 8 hour rest.

Lastly, hoards cannot be chosen willy nilly. Designating an area as your hoard requires you to spend one week* at the place to be considered your hoard. Choosing a place as your hoard is an ancient magic and cannot be disturbed, or it has to be redone. A player is allowed to choose to have a specific spot as their hoard before the campaign begins.


Is there any particular monster you guys would like me to do next? It seems you weren't exactly thrilled with the Pyroclastic. :smalltongue:

Lastly, I'm thinking of taking away the "Does not stack with anything else." restriction on Bahamut's grace. By the time you can even get it to stack with things like divine grace, it's likely to be epic levels which are broken in half anyway, or gestalt where I doubt it would be a big deal at level 20.

*Thinking this may be a little too long.

this is a cool ability. i do think that the 1-week minimum is too long. i don't see why the dragon couldn't conquer a castle and claim it immediately as its lair.

also, as far as the effects and abilities of items go, do the penalties apply? armor check and max dex and stuff?

Mystic Muse
2011-08-19, 03:17 PM
this is a cool ability. i do think that the 1-week minimum is too long. i don't see why the dragon couldn't conquer a castle and claim it immediately as its lair.

also, as far as the effects and abilities of items go, do the penalties apply? armor check and max dex and stuff?

Yeah, they do.

As for the time, I was just trying to prevent a player from choosing like a bag of holding as their hoard or something like that. There doesn't have to be a time limit, I just thought being able to designate a place as your hoard at will is a little abusive.

I changed Bahamut's grace so that, rather than not stacking with anything, it simply doesn't stack with Divine Grace or anything Divine Grace doesn't stack with.

Stycotl
2011-08-19, 05:49 PM
Yeah, they do.

As for the time, I was just trying to prevent a player from choosing like a bag of holding as their hoard or something like that. There doesn't have to be a time limit, I just thought being able to designate a place as your hoard at will is a little abusive.

i was thinking––but forgot to mention––that you should make that require an 8-hour ritual too.


I changed Bahamut's grace so that, rather than not stacking with anything, it simply doesn't stack with Divine Grace or anything Divine Grace doesn't stack with.

sounds good.

Mystic Muse
2011-08-19, 05:57 PM
i was thinking––but forgot to mention––that you should make that require an 8-hour ritual too.


Alright. designating a place as your hoard requires 8 hours. Does it work well enough now to be put in both the classes?

Stycotl
2011-09-10, 01:07 AM
Alright. designating a place as your hoard requires 8 hours. Does it work well enough now to be put in both the classes?

sorry, soft serve. i didn't see the question earlier. by "both," do you mean silver and pyroclastic? it seems good enough to me for that.

Mystic Muse
2011-09-10, 01:28 AM
Warning. Classes are created assuming you only have access to the SRD. This is the only thing I can assume every group using my classes will have access to, and so it is the only thing accounted for.




Succubus (SRD)


Description and details: This creature is Statuesque, stunning, and extraordinarily beautiful, with flawless skin and shining hair. Her form, so tempting, also has an otherworldly side. Large wings unfold from her back, and her eyes glow with sinister desire.

Alignment: In general, Succubi do not have long lasting relationships, and their jobs don't require any particular dedication or rules. They are most likely Chaotic and Evil, but some decide to have their own personal codes, and very very few even decide to join the side of good.

Other Classes: Succubi will adventure with anybody who can help them get their goals completed. What those are tends to vary, and there are even accounts of Succubi turning good and adventuring with Paladins.


Base Class version

Favored Class: A succubus's favored class is bard, due to the bard's amount of enchantment effects, the effect music can have on mortals, and their social skills.

Languages: The Succubus speaks Abyssal and common. She gains additional languages for a positive intelligence modifier as per normal.

Class
HD: d6
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1| +0| +0 |+2| Succubus body, Seductive Dilletante, change shape,
2| +2| +0| +0| +3| Charm Person, Detect Good,+1 Charisma
3| +3| +1| +1| +3| Glide, Tongues, demonic resistance, +1 Charisma
4| +4| +1| +1| +4| Detect Thoughts, Suggestion,+1 Charisma
5| +5| +1| +1| +4| Telepathy, Damage reduction, +1 Charisma
6| +6| +2| +2| +5| Flight, Dimension door, Summon Demon +1 Charisma
7| +7| +2| +2| +5| Succubus, +1 Charisma
[/table]
4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, disguise, Escape artist, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (All skills, taken individually), listen, move silently, search, spot, use rope.

Proficiencies: A succubus is proficient with simple weapons, whips, leather armor, studded leather, and padded armor


Succubus body: The Succubus loses all other racial modifiers and gains outsider traits, medium size, 30 foot base land speed, and two primary claw attacks that deal 1d6+Strength modifier damage. She also has two wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now.

Change Shape (Su): The Succubus can change into any small or medium humanoid 1/day per HD



Seductive Dilettante (Ex): All Succubus levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of Bardic music uses per day, and is treated as being the sum of her bard and succubus levels for the purposes of what bonuses her music provides. So for example, a level 6 bard with 2 levels in Succubus gives a +2 bonus to Inspire courage instead of the +1 she would normally have. She still must reach the requisite number of Bard levels for Abilities such as inspire Heroics or Song of Freedom.

Additionally, her succubus levels stack with Bard levels for abilities such as Bardic Knowledge or Bardic Knack.

If the Succubus does not already have these abilities, she does not gain them.

Charm Person (Su): Starting at second level, the Succubus may cast Charm Person 1/day per HD

Detect Good (Su): Starting at second level, the Succubus may cast Detect Good 1/day per HD.

Charisma Bonus (Ex): The Succubus gains a +1 bonus to Charisma at every level after first, for a total of +6 at level 7.

Glide (Ex): A Succubus can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Succubi glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if a Succubus's maneuverability improves, she can't hover while gliding. A Succubus can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.

If a Succubus becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them.The Succubus descends slowly in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter the actual distance of the fall.

Tongues (Su): Starting at third level, the Succubus has a permanent tongues effect on her as per the spell.

Demonic resistance (Ex): Starting at third level, The Succubus gains Resistance to Cold Equal to her HD.
At 8 HD she gains resistance to fire equal to her HD
At 13 HD she gains resistance to Acid equal to her HD

Detect Thoughts (Su): Starting at fourth level, the Succubus can use detect thoughts 1/day per HD.

Suggestion (Su): Starting at fourth level, The Succubus can use Suggestion 1/day per 2 HD

Telepathy (Su): Starting at fifth level, the Succubus gains telepathy out to 10 feet per HD

Damage Reduction (Ex): Starting at fifth level, the Succubus gains Damage Reduction Cold Iron or good equal to her HD. At 10 HD, this improves to Cold Iron and Good.

Summon Demon (Su): At 6th level, if another Demon is within 25 feet per HD, the Succubus can summon it to an adjacent square. The Target must be willing in order for it to be summoned in this way.

Flight (Ex): Starting at sixth level, the Succubus gains a fly speed of 10 feet per HD at poor Maneuverability.

Dimension Door (Su): Starting at sixth level, the Succubus can use Dimension door as an SLA 1/day per 3 HD.

Succubus (Su): Starting at Seventh level, the Succubus has reached the peak of her race. She is now immune to electricity. The immunities are Extraordinary abilities. Additionally, she gains the use of her energy drain at will. A succubus drains energy from a mortal it lures into some act of passion, or by simply planting a kiss on the victim. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the succubus must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. The succubus’s kiss or embrace bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another kiss from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a Will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) to negate the effect of the suggestion. The DC for the Fortitude Save to remove the negative levels is equal to the will save to prevent the effect of suggestion.

At 10 HD, the Succubus can bypass immunity to mind affecting effects or Energy Drain, but the target receives a +4 bonus to the saves for each. The bonuses are separate and cumulative.

At 15 HD the save bonus lowers to +2 for each effect.

At 20 HD the save bonus disappears entirely.

Lastly, the Succubus's kiss has an additional special ability. If the Succubus manages to kill an opponent with her kiss, she can force the creature's body to rise, becoming a succubus as well. However, the slain creature has first dibs on their body, so most Succubi only use this ability on creatures they know they can deal with once they come back. The affected creature may switch any number of class levels for Succubus levels, but they must switch at least one. The being is raised with complete free will, and the Succubus has no special control over the raised creature

Finally, she may gain the Chaotic and Evil subtypes.





Prestige Class version


Pre-requisites: Cannot be undead.

Special:The one who wishes to gain the template must have Knowledge: The Planes 8 ranks, 4 ranks in any perform Skill, a base charisma score of 14, and be capable of speaking abyssal. The one who wishes to gain the template then must partake in a special ritual Or be killed and raised by another Succubus's kiss.

HD: d6
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1| +0| +0 |+2| Succubus body, Seductive Dilletante, Summon Demon,
2| +2| +0| +0| +3| Charm Person, Detect Good,+1 Charisma
3| +3| +1| +1| +3| Glide, Tongues, demonic resistance, +1 Charisma
4| +4| +1| +1| +4| Detect Thoughts, Suggestion,+1 Charisma
5| +5| +1| +1| +4| Telepathy, Damage reduction, +1 Charisma
6| +6| +2| +2| +5| Flight, Change Shape, +1 Charisma
7| +7| +2| +2| +5| Succubus, Words of Seduction +1 Charisma
[/table]
6 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, disguise, Escape artist, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), listen, move silently, Perform, search, spot, Tumble, Use Magic Device, use rope.

Proficiencies: A succubus gains proficiency with whips.


Succubus body (Ex): The Succubus retains all other racial modifiers from her previous race and gains outsider traits, medium size, 30 foot base land speed, and two primary claw attacks that deal 1d6+Strength modifier damage. She also has two wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now.

Seductive Dilettante (Ex): All Succubus levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of Bardic music uses per day, and is treated as being the sum of her bard and succubus levels for the purposes of what bonuses her music provides. So for example, a level 6 bard with 2 levels in Succubus gives a +2 bonus to Inspire courage instead of the +1 she would normally have. She still must reach the requisite number of Bard levels for Abilities such as inspire Heroics or Song of Freedom.

Additionally, her succubus levels stack with Bard levels for abilities such as Bardic Knowledge or Bardic Knack.

If the Succubus does not already have these abilities, she does not gain them.


Summon Demon (Su): At 1st level, if another Demon is within 25 feet per HD, the Succubus can summon it to an adjacent square. The Target must be willing in order for it to be summoned in this way.


Charm Monster (Su): Starting at second level, the Succubus may cast Charm Monster 1/day per HD

Detect Good (Su): Starting at second level, the Succubus may cast Detect Good At-Will. She may even bypass alignment concealing effects as long as she succeeds on an opposed caster level check, with a caster level equal to her HD.

Charisma Bonus (Ex): The Succubus gains a +1 bonus to Charisma at every level after first, for a total of +6 at level 7.

Glide (Ex): A Succubus can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Succubi glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if a Succubus's maneuverability improves, she can't hover while gliding. A Succubus can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.

If a Succubus becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them.The Succubus descends slowly in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter the actual distance of the fall.

Tongues (Su): Starting at third level, the Succubus has a permanent tongues effect on her as per the spell.

Demonic resistance (Ex): Starting at third level, The Succubus gains Resistance to Cold and fire Equal to her HD.
At 13 HD she gains resistance to Acid equal to her HD

Detect Thoughts (Su): Starting at fourth level, the Succubus can use detect thoughts 1/day per HD.

Suggestion (Su): Starting at fourth level, The Succubus can use Suggestion 1/day per 2 HD

Telepathy (Su): Starting at fifth level, the Succubus gains telepathy out to 10 feet per HD

Damage Reduction (Ex): Starting at fifth level, the Succubus gains Damage Reduction Cold Iron or good equal to her HD. At 10 HD, this improves to Cold Iron and Good.

Flight (Ex): Starting at sixth level, the Succubus gains a fly speed of 120 feet at average maneuverability

Change Shape (Su): At 6th level, The Succubus can change into any small or medium humanoid 1/day per HD

Succubus (Su): Starting at Seventh level, the Succubus has reached the peak of her race. She is now immune to electricity and poison. The immunities are Extraordinary abilities.

The Succubus gains the use of her energy draining kiss at will. A succubus drains energy from a mortal it lures into some act of passion, or by simply planting a kiss on the victim. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the succubus must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. The succubus’s kiss or embrace bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another kiss from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a Will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) to negate the effect of the suggestion. The DC for the Fortitude Save to remove the negative levels is equal to the will save to prevent the effect of suggestion.

At 15 HD it bypasses immunity to mind affecting effects, and energy drain, though affected creatures gain a +4 bonus on their saves against the effects. If the affected creature has immunity to both, the resistance stacks and is +8.
at 18 HD this bonus is reduced to +2, or +4 if it has immunity to both.
at 20 HD, this bonus goes away entirely.


Lastly, the Succubus's kiss has an additional special ability. If the Succubus manages to kill an opponent with her kiss, she can force the creature's body to rise, becoming a succubus as well. However, the slain creature has first dibs on their body, so most Succubi only use this ability on creatures they know they can deal with once they come back. The affected creature may switch any number of class levels for Succubus levels, but they must switch at least one. The being is raised with complete free will, and the Succubus has no special control over the raised creature

Finally, she may gain the Chaotic and Evil subtypes.

Words of Seduction (Su): A bard who has the Words of Seduction ability can use these powerful words to enhance her bardic music
ability as detailed below. When a bard uses the Words of Seduction
in this manner, it is extremely draining, and the bard takes
1d4 points of nonlethal damage for each rank in Perform
required to produce the bardic music effect she is enhancing.
The Words of Seduction double the effect of several bardic
music abilities:
• Inspire Courage: Double the morale bonus on saving throws
against charm and fear and the morale bonus on attack and
weapon damage rolls (+2 at 1st level, +4 at 8th level, +6 at 14th
level, +8 at 20th level).
• Inspire Competence: +4 competence bonus on skill checks.
• Inspire Greatness: Gain 4 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate
number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s
Constitution modifier to these bonus Hit Dice), +4 competence
bonus on attacks, and +2 competence bonus on Fortitude
saves.
• Inspire Heroics: +8 morale bonus on saving throws, +8 dodge
bonus to AC.
For bardic music abilities that require a Perform check (countersong,
fascinate), the Words of Seduction grant the bard a +4
morale bonus on the check. The Words Seduction also bypass any mind affecting immunity their target

Lastly, words of Seduction does not stack with words of creation.



Comments and FAQ

1. This was intended to be balanced with Tier 3 classes
2. The reason the abilities scale with HD is that otherwise the abilities suck once she gets out of the class.
3.In taking this you give up your choice of race. You cannot be a Succubus and a human, or a Succubus and a Minotaur
4. You do not have to be the traditional alignment, even if you do get the subtypes associated with the monster.
5. This is intended to be playable with just the SRD allowed.
6. You can multi-class out at any point. This is not a traditional racial class, so you don't have to go through all 7 levels, you simply have to take the first.


Like I said, it's a Succubus, there's really not much to say about this. Hopefully it will get more people to comment and vote since the purpose is to have classes that are deemed playable, and that's not possible when nobody votes or critiques.

*You have no idea how much I wanted to say "Seventh Heaven" for some incomprehensible reason.

As with pretty much every class I'll ever do, this class does not have an alignment requirement. Why? Simple really, there's no reason a being of sex has to be evil. Granted, it's a demon, but their abilities are more morally questionable than outright evil.

I tried to give it most of the stuff it had in the SRD. There was some stuff I just plain couldn't fit in seven levels though.


Changelog
Added Glide

Removed Dimension Door

Increased Skill points to 6+Int modifier.

Added Balance, All knowledge skills, sleight of hand, Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magic Device and Perform to the Skill list.

Added Words of Seduction

Moved Change Shape to make it not such a great dip.

Changed the Class to a template.

Changed the Kiss to be better at higher levels, and to be able to create more Succubi.

removed the favored class bit.

Changed it so that you may gain the subtypes, since they can screw a character concept over, and short of sources like Savage Species there's no way to remove them.

Changed Detect Good so that it can bypass the alignment concealing effects they're liable to run into at these levels.

Added Summon demon to both Succubi.

Gave the ability to turn killed enemies into Succubi to the base class version.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-04, 05:53 PM
Alright. Two updates. The first is that I'm now taking requests for other monsters to do. If somebody would like, I can post a list of other monsters I planned on creating at some point. Please, just somebody post shpwing that they still give a damn about my project.

The second is, I was looking through some books, and created a few feats based off of others I saw. Really just something I thought might be good for an update while I worked on other stuff. As you can probably tell, I was looking at a book about dragons.

Horns [General]
Pre-requisites: Must have horns from some source, 9 HD
Benefit: The Creature gains a gore natural attack. This is a secondary natural attack that deals the following damage according to size.
{table]Size|Damage
Tiny|1d3
Small|1d4
Medium|1d6
Large|1d8
Huge|2d6
Gargantuan|2d8
Colossal|4d6[/table]
Special: If you take this feat, you cannot also take the Head plate feat.

Head plate [General]
Pre-requisites: 9 HD
Benefit: The Creature gains a headbutt natural attack. This is a secondary natural attack that deals the following amount of bludgeoning damage according to size.
{table]Size|Damage
Tiny|1d3
Small|1d4
Medium|1d6
Large|1d8
Huge|2d6
Gargantuan|2d8
Colossal|4d6[/table]
Special: if you take this feat, you cannot also take the Horns feat.

Tail Spikes [General]
Pre-requisites: Tail slap attack, 12 HD
Benefit: The damage of your tail slap increases by 2d6. Additionally, You can choose to start a grapple when you hit with a tail slap attack as if you had the improved grab special attack as long as the creature is 3 or more size categories smaller than you.

You can drop a creature you have snatched as a free action or use a standard action to fling it aside. A flung creature travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled. If you are flying while you fling the creature, the creature takes this amount or falling damage, whichever is greater.

Body Spines: [General]
Pre-requisite: Must have spines or similar structures on body, 6 HD
Benefit: The Creature grows spines all over its body. Anyone climbing on or grappling with the Creature takes 1d4+Strength modifier damage each round they remain climbing/Grappling. This damage can also be added to a Tail Slap or Tail Sweep attack.

Metahuman1
2011-10-05, 03:04 PM
A big part of the Succubus's thing was suppose to be mind blowing Cha like nothing else except maybe an Nymph, Dragon or Celestial could compete with. So maybe consider increasing it's Cha boost.

Just an Off the cuff idea for it.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-05, 03:29 PM
*Sees post*

*Sees PM*

*blinkblink*

Wow. People do still care about my project. Yay!

Well, as concerns the succubus, I think the Charisma is honestly high enough as is. It beats out what the Silver Dragon gets in only seven levels and matches it in five. I could make a racial PRC, but that's about the extent of what I'd be comfortable with without feedback from more people.

I'll see what I can do with your requests when I get the chance. First I need to attend to some requests my girlfriend made, and I have to go for abour 3 hours. Her requests are fairly low level is one of the reasons.

Howler Dagger
2011-10-05, 04:15 PM
I have a request: an ectoplasmic dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20040123a) from the mind's eye updates.

Metahuman1
2011-10-05, 04:19 PM
*Sees post*

*Sees PM*

*blinkblink*

Wow. People do still care about my project. Yay!

Well, as concerns the succubus, I think the Charisma is honestly high enough as is. It beats out what the Silver Dragon gets in only seven levels and matches it in five. I could make a racial PRC, but that's about the extent of what I'd be comfortable with without feedback from more people.

I'll see what I can do with your requests when I get the chance. First I need to attend to some requests my girlfriend made, and I have to go for abour 3 hours. Her requests are fairly low level is one of the reasons.

I'm fine with that. I understand I'm just one opinion, and in this case it is most certainly an opinion.

And I can wait on the requests. =)

Mulletmanalive
2011-10-05, 06:29 PM
I really like the Hoard ability. Really liike it.

It's better than Omalesco's Tarrasque thing and i'm probably going to include it on actual dragons in my games, maybe as a feat. I'm not sure what to make of the extra actions thing; you already have a lot of attacks, but then again, you've resisted the oh-so-dull "give it pounce!" response, which i applaude.

Overall, i think it looks pretty playable throughout its lineup, not auto-win powerful, but certainly enough to give a none "i win" caster a run for it's money and stand well against ToB classes.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-05, 06:37 PM
I'm fine with that. I understand I'm just one opinion, and in this case it is most certainly an opinion.

And I can wait on the requests. =)

Thanks. :smallsmile:


I really like the Hoard ability. Really liike it.

It's better than Omalesco's Tarrasque thing and i'm probably going to include it on actual dragons in my games, maybe as a feat. I'm not sure what to make of the extra actions thing; you already have a lot of attacks, but then again, you've resisted the oh-so-dull "give it pounce!" response, which i applaude.

Overall, i think it looks pretty playable throughout its lineup, not auto-win powerful, but certainly enough to give a none "i win" caster a run for it's money and stand well against ToB classes.

Extra actions? What do you mean by that?


I have a request: an ectoplasmic dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20040123a) from the mind's eye updates.

*Insert hesitant sound here*
While I do want to do things people in general want, I should mention a few things.

1. High CR creatures, especially dragons, take a long amount of time to do. You know the Silver Dragon? That took me months to get done before I even posted it, and it's barely recognizable compared to the original. Creature of CR 10 or less are usually preferable, though I can try and work on higher ones regardless. I do want to come back to dragons at some point, but right now I want to branch out a bit.
2. I'm not that familiar with Psionics, so I'm extremely hesitant about creating a class that uses them. Same with Incarnum and Binding.

Mulletmanalive
2011-10-05, 06:41 PM
The ability Volcano, is what i refer to. I'm kinda distrustful of anything involving extra actions, just in general.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-05, 06:48 PM
The ability Volcano, is what i refer to. I'm kinda distrustful of anything involving extra actions, just in general.

Ah, right. Not sure why that wasn't processing.

Well, this was based off of an earlier version of the dragon, so it hasn't been through the rigorous editing the Silver Dragon went through. Heck, nobody even made comments about it when it was first put up.

Hmm. Got any ideas for replacement abilities?

Mulletmanalive
2011-10-05, 07:16 PM
Part of me is thinking that a pyroclastic flow type move, with maybe 10-15 ft of movement as a Swift action [maybe a Move at first off] that's treated much like a Trample move, so you can kind of dozer around the battlefield.

It just seems appropriate for something that's an intelligent force of nature.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-05, 07:30 PM
Part of me is thinking that a pyroclastic flow type move, with maybe 10-15 ft of movement as a Swift action [maybe a Move at first off] that's treated much like a Trample move, so you can kind of dozer around the battlefield.

It just seems appropriate for something that's an intelligent force of nature.

Hmm. I'll think on this.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-07, 01:20 AM
Kulumar


(From Denizens of Avadnu.)



Description and Details: Kulumars are eyeless predators with a mystical affinity for shadow. Fast, muscular, and agile, Kulumars stand 8 to 10 feet tall and weigh an average of 400 pounds. Their hairless skin is an almost reflective blue, and their long limbs end in black claws useful for clinging to walls and ceilings. From the bottom of Kulumars' worm-like heads grow stalks that allow them to sense their surroundings. Kulumars naturally cast no shadows. But can steal shadows from other creatures.

Kulumars are known to ally themselves with Aboleths and Drow, or perform services in return for knowledge or magic. They are treacherous and deceitful, but generally twist words instead of lying outright. If Kulumars were slightly less belligerent and enigmatic, they would easily find friends among the underworld races.

Adventures: Kulumars often adventure to obtain shadow slaves, or to find knowledge and magic. Most Kulumars are not actually casters, but have a fondness for magic all the same. Kulumars will also accept bribes of the aforementioned things to do mercenary work.

Religion: Kulumars are not known for worshiping any deity.

Ecology/background: It is unknown whether Kulumars reproduce, as there exists no documentation of Kulumar young. It is believed that Kulumars are Sexless and that only a set number exist. A leading theory holds that Kulumars are shadows cast on the material plane by some extra-planar monster but Kulumars respond to this notion with politely amused descriptions of indecipherable esoterica.

Kulumars lurk in the deepest parts of the earth, wandering alone through tunnels and caverns. Some collect arcana, while others seem intent on destroying all intelligent beings they find. They never associate with each other, but readily talk to those who question them, even during combat. They are polite and articulate, and occasionally helpful, but often difficult to understand. Questions about their nature, habits, and purpose are answered with talk of penumbras, the “Low world,” and the “Blue shadow,” and Kulumars seem unable to define these terms without relating them to each Other. Kulumars can discuss most other issues rationally.

Languages: Kulumars speak undercommon, and can speak additional languages with each point of Intelligence bonus they have as per normal.

Favored Class: Rogue is a Kulumar's favored class.


Class
HD: d8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +2| +2 |+0| Kulumar body, Blindsight 30'
2| +1| +3| +3| +0| Shadow Rend, Shadow Slave,
3| +2| +3| +3| +1| Climb Speed, Blindsight 60', Shadow Slave Range 240'
4| +3| +4| +4| +1| Maintain Shadow, Command Shadow, Bite
5| +3| +4| +4| +1| Shadow jump, Enter Shadow, Blindsight 90'
6| +4| +5| +5| +2| Growth, Hide in Plain Sight, Shadow Slave Range 480'
[/table]
4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Bluff, Climb, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, and Tumble.



Proficiencies: The Kulumar is not proficient in any armor or shields, and is only proficient with its natural weapons.

Features:

Kulumar Body (Ex): The Kulumar loses all other racial bonuses and gains Aberration traits, 2 claw attacks for 1d6+strength damage each, a 40 foot base land speed and medium size.

The Kulumar also gets a natural armor bonus equal to its Constitution modifier.

Blindsight (Ex): A Kulumar can sense all foes within 30 feet as a sighted creature would. Beyond that range, it is considered blinded. Kulumars are invulnerable to gaze attacks, visual effects of spells such as illusion, and other attack forms that rely on sight. It increases by another 30 feet at level 3 and 5 to a total of 90 feet.

Shadow Rend (Su): A living creature hit by both of a Kulumar's claw attacks, or who is transported with the Kulumar during a shadow jump, risks having its shadow stolen. The Creature must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) or have its shadow pulled through its body and ripped out by the Kulumar. The Kulumar then casts the creature's shadow, and the creature it was stolen from casts none. A Kulumar can cast any number of shadows from different angles.

For every day the creature goes without a shadow, it partially fades into nonexistence, taking 1d4 points of Constitution drain. When its constitution reaches 0, it dies and disappears, along with its shadow. If the creature rejoins with its shadow by touching it (An unarmed melee touch attack against the Kulumar if it is casting the shadow, or against the shadow if it is detached from and controlled by the Kulumar), it regains any Constitution lost. Only a miracle or Wish spell can replace a living creature's shadow, and this does not restore lost Constitution. Returning from the dead rejoins a creature with its shadow and restores all lost Constitution.

Shadow slave (Su): At level 2, a Kulumar can detach from its body any shadows it has stolen as a free action. A shadow so detached lifts off the ground and resembles a dark, transparent version of the creature it was originally connected to. Treat the shadow as an unseen servant with an AC of 13 that follows the Kulumar's verbal commands while within 120 feet. If the Shadow leaves this range, or if the Kulumar is killed (which automatically detaches all the Kulumar's shadows) it immediately heads toward where it last saw its rightful owner, willingly rejoining if Possible. If the shadow is destroyed, it cannot be rejoined with its owner. Kulumars treat their shadows as slaves, sending them to open doors, carry their belongings, and fulfill the request of guests.

Climb Speed (Ex): At level 3, the Kulumar gains a 30 foot climb speed.

Shadow Slave Range(Su): At level 4 and 6, the range over which a Kulumar can control its shadow slaves increases to 240 feet and 480 feet respectively. At 12 HD, the Kulumar can control the slaves from any distance, or even from another plain.

Maintain Shadow (Su): At level 4, a Kulumar learns to maintain the link between its shadows and the creatures they were stolen from. Each day, the Kulumar can prevent the Constitution drain caused by shadow loss to a number of creatures whose shadows it has stolen equal to 3+HD+Charisma modifier.

Command Shadow (Su): At level 4, a Kulumar can send commands to its stolen shadows telepathically as a free action, so long as they are within range.

Bite (Ex): At level 4, the Kulumar gains a secondary bite attack dealing 1d6+1/2 strength modifier damage.

Shadow Jump (Su): At level 5, the Kulumar can travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. Even unwilling creatures can be transported with the Kulumar if they are restrained or grappled. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some shadow. The Kulumar can jump a range equal to 20 feet times its HD. This ability takes a Standard action, and is usable a number of times per day equal to its HD.

Enter Shadow (Su): At level 5 a Kulumar can create a new body for itself out of a shadow slave and abandon its old form. As a standard action, the Kulumar dissolves its body into a murky blue shadow that dissipates into the ground (Detaching any shadows in the process), and warps a single shadow slave within range of its control into a body identical to its old one. This destroys the shadow slave and cures the Kulumar of 1d10 points of damage. The overall effect is similar to teleportation, but carried objects are not transported, and this can allow the Kulumar to jump across planes.

Growth (Ex): At level 6 the Kulumar may grow another size category (Ordinarily to large size). Its AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly (Hide remains the same as it was before the growth), but it doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At level 6 the Kulumar can use the hide skill even while being observed. As long as they are within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, Kulumars can hide themselves from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. Kulumars cannot hide in their own shadows, or in the shadows of their shadow servants.

Comment

The original doesn't do much with the shadow slaves, and they probably won't last very long with just the way they originally work. By taking the Stygian Slaver PRC, gutting it with a machete, and grafting the remains onto the original monster, it works much better, and the shadow slaves actually have a point. The original PRC required level 3 arcane spells too, which the Kulumar has no reason to have, and the PRC has no advantages for. It will never be taken in any campaign where optimization matters, and so I wanted to give the class some of the decent abilities of the Stygian Slaver without requiring them to take the class.

I gave it Rogue as its favored class, the reason being that rogue boosts what it actually does.

Aberrations tend to have will as their highest save, but this is much more of a melee monster than a caster one, so I thought fortitude and reflex made more since.

Changelog
Changed growth to "May"

Mystic Muse
2011-10-07, 01:56 AM
Pegasus (From the SRD/Monster manual 1.)



Description and Details: As much as I'd like to have something more substantial here, I don't know what to say about them other than that they're Horses with Wings. Pegasi are often white, but there are some reported to be Yellow, Blue, Pink, and a few that are said to have manes that are Pink, Purple, or even every color of the rainbow.


Religion: The Pegasi who do worship gods tend to worship gods of nature, or gods who control some natural element. Most often, they worship the deities of the sun and moon as long as the tenets of said deities do not conflict with their own moral dispositions.

Adventures: Pegasi most often adventure with good aligned beings, serving as mounts. Pegasi occasionally leave their homes to adventure on their own, often as some sort of service to either their home, or any gods they may serve.

Ecology/Background: Pegasi live in clouds or forest in isolation almost exclusively. They are often shy and reclusive, so they do not prefer highly populated areas. Besides the fact that they are not well received by the “Civilized” races for various reasons, said races tend to kidnap their young and raise them as mounts.

If a Pegasus plans on raising children, they tend to leave their clouds homes temporarily to raise them on the ground. Newborn Pegasi cannot yet walk on clouds as more developed ones can, and so cloud homes are no longer viable. Once a youngling Pegasus can cloudwalk, the family often moves back to the clouds, unless the settlement they find on the ground proves better.

Pegasi have a natural association with nature. Many prefer the clouds, but Pegasi moving down to forests to get in touch with the animals there is far from unheard of. Such Pegasi tend to be Druids or Rangers for the animal companion feature.

Languages: Pegasi begin play knowing Common and can understand other languages for each point of intelligence bonus as per usual. While it's not unheard of for Pegasi to speak, they are often only able to communicate through body language.

Favored Class: Druid or Ranger.

Class
HD: d8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +0| +2 |+0|Pegasus Body, Racial Skill Bonus,
2| +1| +0| +2| +0| Scent, Wild Empathy, +1 Dexterity
3| +2| +1| +3| +1| Glide, Cloud Walk, Call of Nature, +1 Dexterity
[/table]
4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Spot, Listen, Profession, Perform, Knowledge (Nature), Jump, Intimidate, Craft, Survival,

Proficiencies: Pegasi are not proficient with any armor or weapons besides their own natural weapons.

Pegasus body (Ex): At first level the Pegasus loses all other racial traits and gains the following. Pegasi are medium sized Magical beasts with two natural hoof attacks for 1d4+Strength modifier damage each, and a base move speed of 40 feet. The Pegasus's Hoof attacks are primary natural attacks.

Pegasi use their mouths for tasks requiring fine manipulation, and as such, are treated as one handed for all purposes. At first level, the Pegasi's dexterity is treated as 4 points lower than what it actually is for tasks requiring fine manipulation. At 4 HD this penalty is reduced to 2 points lower. At 8 HD this penalty goes away entirely.

Lastly, Pegasi gain a natural armor bonus equal to their Constitution modifier.

Racial Skill Bonuses (Ex): Pegasi have a racial bonus to the Listen and Spot checks equal to half their HD.

Scent (Ex): At level 2, the Pegasus gains the benefits of the Scent Extraordinary ability.This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.

The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source.

A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.

Wild Empathy (Ex): As per the Druid feature. The Pegasus is treated as having a Druid level equal to its HD for the purposes of this ability.

Ability Bonus (Ex): At levels 2 and 3, a Pegasus's dexterity score increases by 1

Cloud Walk (Su): Pegasi tend to make their homes among the clouds. As such, they are able to tread on clouds and fog as if they were on solid ground. This ability functions continuously, but can be negated or resumed At-Will.

Glide (Ex): A Pegasus can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Pegasi glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if a Pegasus's maneuverability improves, she can't hover while gliding. A Pegasus can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.

If a Pegasus becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them. The Pegasus descends slowly in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter the actual distance of the fall.

At 6 HD, the Pegasus becomes capable of Flight and has a fly speed equal to 10 feet times its HD with average maneuverability.

Call of Nature (Su): The Pegasus can use “Summon Nature's Ally 2” as a Spell Like ability, 1/day per 2 HD. At 6 HD this improves to Summon Nature's Ally 3. At 8 HD, this improves to Summon Nature's ally 4, and continues to improve every 2 HD up until Summon Nature's ally 9 at 18 HD.

Growth (Ex): At 8 HD, the Pegasus may grow a size category (Ordinarily to large size). Her AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Comments and FAQ

1. This was intended to be balanced with Tier 3 classes
2. The reason the abilities scale with HD is that otherwise the abilities suck once she gets out of the class.
3.In taking this you give up your choice of race. You cannot be a Tiefling Pegasus for example.
4. You do not have to be the traditional alignment.
5. This is intended to be playable with just the SRD allowed.
6. You can multi-class out at any point. This is not a traditional racial class, so you don't have to go through all 3 levels, you simply have to take the first.

To be honest, I took a lot of this from My Little Pony: Friendship is magic, as the class Picture indicates. While I know at least a few people will probably dislike that, I hope you can appreciate the class in spite of that fact. The SRD version of the Pegasus simply didn't have enough to work with. Heck, even the fluff in the Monster Manual version was like a paragraph long at best.

This is one of the Creatures my Girlfriend requested, and it was made largely with her in mind.


Changelog

I changed the flight to be a bit better since it's the main reason somebody is going to be a pegasus.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-14, 01:07 AM
Were-Tiger (SRD)



Description and details: Were-Tigers come from all over. In their human forms, they can be just about anything from little kids to wizened Elders.

In their Hybrid and Tiger forms, Were-tigers tend to have little variation, at least to the common eye. Were-Tigers can be any variety, including Albino or even black.


Adventures: Lycanthropes are just as varied as humans and giants when it comes to adventure. They'll search for anything that appeals to them, kill anything that threatens them, or walk in the service of a greater Good, or evil as the case my be.

Alignment: Lycanthropes have no natural alignements. You are as likely to meet a Lawful Good Were-Tiger as you are a chaotic Evil Were-Tiger.

Religion: Lycanthropes tend to worship whatever deities they worshipped before being transformed, or worship deities of the night if they give in to the beast, or revel in their new forms.

Other Classes: Lycanthropes get along well with most classes. The only exceptions are excessively zealous Paladins or clerics.

Favored Class: Rogue or Barbarian.

Class

Were-Tiger Prerequisites
To become a Were-Tiger, the character must meet the following requirements

Race: Any Medium or Large humanoid, goblinoid, Monstrous humanoid, or giant.
Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another Were-Tiger.


HD: d8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1| +2| +2 |+0| Were-Tiger Body, Form of the Beast, Curse of Lycanthropy
2| +1| +3| +3| +1| Weapons of the Beast, Serrated claws and Teeth, Skill Bonus
3| +2| +3| +3| +1| Tiger Form, Skin of the Lycanthrope, Pounce
[/table]
4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Balance, Swim, Climb, Hide, move Silently, Handle animal, intimidate, Jump

Proficiencies: A Were-Tiger gains No proficiencies in any weapons or armor.

Were-Tiger body (Ex): The Were-Tiger retains any previous racial bonuses it had, and gains the magical beast type, granting it Darkvision 60 and low light vision. Additionally, it gains the shapechanger subtype, and the ability to communicate with tigers regardless of form.

Form of the Beast (Su): At 1st Level, the Were-Tiger can change into a Hybrid form. This grants him the following Benefits.

A Bonus to his strength and Dexterity Scores Equal to half his Hit Dice.
Two Claw attacks for 1d4+Strength modifier damage (1d6 if large)
A Bite attack for 1d4+1/2 strength modifier damage (1d6 if large)
]A Natural Armor bonus equal to his Constitution modifier.


The Were-Tiger has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the Were-Tiger’s Humanoid or Giant form, as well as its Hybrid or Animal Forms. While using alternate form the Were-Tiger reverts to its Humanoid or Giant form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the Were-Tiger:

The Were-Tiger retains the type and subtype of its Humanoid or Giant form. It gains the size of its Tiger or Hybrid Form. (As Specified). If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the Were-Tiger gains that subtype as well.
The Were-Tiger loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its Humanoid or Giant form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its Humanoid or Giant form not derived from non-monster class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
The Were-Tiger gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of Tiger or Hybrid Form. (As Specified).
The Were-Tiger retains the special qualities of its Humanoid or Giant form. It does not gain any special qualities of its Tiger or Hybrid Form. (Unless Specified Otherwise.)
The Were-Tiger retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its Tiger or Hybrid Form.
The Were-Tiger retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
Except as described elsewhere, the Were-Tiger retains all other game statistics of its Humanoid or Giant form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
The Were-Tiger retains any spellcasting ability it had in its Humanoid or Giant form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components. Hybrids may speak and have humanoid enough hands if the Were-Tiger's Humanoid or Giant form has hands.
The Were-Tiger is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its Tiger or Hybrid Form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
Any gear worn or carried by the Were-Tiger that can’t be worn or carried in its Tiger or Hybrid Form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the Were-Tiger changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its Tiger or Hybrid Form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.


Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.

A Were-Tiger can assume its Alternate Form 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.


Curse of Lycanthrophy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a Were-Tiger’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC equals 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) or contract Lycanthropy.

Weapons of the Beast (Ex): At Second Level, the Lycanthrope becomes capable of Raking with his claws in Hybrid Form, dealing additional claw damage if it succeeds on a grapple check. Additionally, his natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming Damage reduction.

Serrated Claws and Teeth (Ex): The Were-tiger's natural weapons start digging into cloth and flesh, becoming far harder to tear out. To use this ability, a Were-Tiger must hit with a claw or bite attack. He can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If he wins the grapple check, he establishes a hold and can rake.

Skill Bonus (Ex): At second level, the Were-Tiger possesses skill bonuses related to his parent animal's form. Regardless of form, the Were-Tiger has a racial bonus to Hide, Move Silently and Balance equal to Half his Hit dice.

Lycanthrope skin (Su): The Were-Tiger's skin starts becoming Supernaturally tough. At third level, the Were-Tiger gains Damage reduction Silver equal to half his Hit dice regardless form.

At 12 HD this becomes equal to his Hit Dice

Eventually, the skin even starts repairing injuries in front of its opponent's very eyes. At 12 HD the Were-Tiger gains Fast healing equal to ¼ his HD rounded down.

Pounce (Ex): In any form, the Were-Tiger can pounce, full attacking at the end of any charge he makes. The Were-Tiger is incapable of raking an opponent if his hands are currently holding something (Such as weapons) or occupied in a similar manner.

Tiger Form (Su): At third level, the Were-Tiger becomes capable of turning into its patron form, granting him the benefits of being a natural Tiger. In addition, the physical ability scores of a tiger are instead ability boosts, granting him a +12 Strength, +4 Dexterity, and +6 Constitution boost while in Tiger form. This acts in all other ways as per the alternate form ability.

At 12 HD, this changes to a Dire tiger and changes the Strength boost to +16

The Were-Tiger may do this 1/day per HD. A use of this ability counts as a use of your hybrid form, and vice versa.

Comments

Well, here's one of Metahuman's request. I hope it's to their liking.

This is the first time I've ever done a Lycanthrope, and I don't plan on doing it often. These things are pretty difficult.


Changelog

Nothing so far


I'll be working on a few other things while I'm waiting for more requests. I'll give priority to my Girlfriend's and Metahuman's requests (except the really high level one you requested Metahuaman) if I don't receive any further requests, but I'll also be working on other stuff at the same time.

For now, sleeptime.

Metahuman1
2011-10-14, 12:25 PM
So far it looks very good. Thank you, I'm quite pleased with this one!

And Take your time with the High level one. I'm in no hurry. And I understand coming second on the priority's list too a lady friend entirely. :smallwink:

Mystic Muse
2011-10-14, 12:40 PM
So far it looks very good. Thank you, I'm quite pleased with this one!

I'm glad.:smallsmile:

Any requests besides the one you sent me in PM? I was thinking of doing Centaur or Treant after I finish the other ones my girlfriend wanted, but I was wondering if there was anything else I should work on?

Metahuman1
2011-10-14, 01:18 PM
Those could both prove interesting, and I always like to see different takes on Centaurs and Other Tauric creatures.

And if your still looking for ideas beyond that, Lilliend could make for an interesting one. I don't think it get's enough love really.

Stycotl
2011-10-15, 11:02 AM
Alright. Two updates. The first is that I'm now taking requests for other monsters to do. If somebody would like, I can post a list of other monsters I planned on creating at some point. Please, just somebody post shpwing that they still give a damn about my project.

The second is, I was looking through some books, and created a few feats based off of others I saw. Really just something I thought might be good for an update while I worked on other stuff. As you can probably tell, I was looking at a book about dragons.

Horns [General]
Pre-requisites: Dragon type or Dragonblood subtype, 9 HD
Benefit: The Creature gains a gore natural attack. This is a secondary natural attack that deals the following damage according to size.
{table]Size|Damage
Tiny|1d3
Small|1d4
Medium|1d6
Large|1d8
Huge|2d6
Gargantuan|2d8
Colossal|4d6[/table]
Special: If you take this feat, you cannot also take the Head plate feat.

Head plate [General]
Pre-requisites: Dragon type or Dragonblood subtype, 9 HD
Benefit: The Creature gains a headbutt natural attack. This is a secondary natural attack that deals the following amount of bludgeoning damage according to size.
{table]Size|Damage
Tiny|1d3
Small|1d4
Medium|1d6
Large|1d8
Huge|2d6
Gargantuan|2d8
Colossal|4d6[/table]
Special: if you take this feat, you cannot also take the Horns feat.

Tail Spikes [General]
Pre-requisites: Tail slap attack, 12 HD
Benefit: The damage of your tail slap increases by 2d6. Additionally, You can choose to start a grapple when you hit with a tail slap attack as if you had the improved grab special attack as long as the creature is 3 or more size categories smaller than you.

You can drop a creature you have snatched as a free action or use a standard action to fling it aside. A flung creature travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled. If you are flying while you fling the creature, the creature takes this amount or falling damage, whichever is greater.

Body Spines: [General]
Pre-requisite: Dragon type or dragonblood subtype, 6 HD
Benefit: The Creature grows spines all over its body. Anyone climbing on or grappling with the Creature takes 1d4+Strength modifier damage each round they remain climbing/Grappling. This damage can also be added to a Tail Slap or Tail Sweep attack.:smallcool:

why are these only dragon-specific? these would be fitting for a number of creatures: trolls and ogres, dire animals, etc.

i will take a good look at the weretiger and pegasus when i have time, but so far they look pretty cool, and it is nice to see you still working on them.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-15, 12:07 PM
why are these only dragon-specific? these would be fitting for a number of creatures: trolls and ogres, dire animals, etc.


That's what they were in the book. I'll just try to make the pre-requisites such that you have a reasonable way to gain the benefits.

Metahuman1
2011-10-15, 05:53 PM
Actually, I looked at Weretiger again. And I'm curious, why only Humanoids and Giants? Why not Goblinoids and Monstrous Humanoids as well? I'd think it would be thematically fitting, or was there something I'm overlooking with that? A Balance Issue I missed or some such?



Not complaining, I still say you did a great job, but it was something I got curious about looking at the class a second time. =)

Mystic Muse
2011-10-15, 05:55 PM
Actually, I looked at Weretiger again. And I'm curious, why only Humanoids and Giants? Why not Goblinoids and Monstrous Humanoids as well? I'd think it would be thematically fitting, or was there something I'm overlooking with that? A Balance Issue I missed or some such?




That was the requirement on the original Lycanthrope. I can change that easily.

Also, should I change Succubus to a template? To me, it seems like it should have been one in the first place.

Metahuman1
2011-10-15, 06:04 PM
Huh, so it was. I always remembered it as Humanoids and Monsterous Humanoids.

And yes, that, I think, would be a nifty little change. Makes it a bit more open access and offers some other encounter options for DM's who want to use it while creating a bigger pool of options to go with it for PC's.





And with regards to Succubus being a template, that could actually be a cool change. Who doesn't like being able to add Cha boosts and ability's too a race described as being beautiful or Charismatic anyway? Gives you something to Enhance flavor.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-15, 06:09 PM
Huh, so it was. I always remembered it as Humanoids and Monsterous Humanoids.

And yes, that, I think, would be a nifty little change. Makes it a bit more open access and offers some other encounter options for DM's who want to use it while creating a bigger pool of options to go with it for PC's. Alright.






And with regards to Succubus being a template, that could actually be a cool change. Who doesn't like being able to add Cha boosts and ability's too a race described as being beautiful or Charismatic anyway? Gives you something to Enhance flavor.

How about a base Charisma score of 14 or 16 as a pre-requisite? Maybe a certain number of ranks in a specific skill? I could also see the template helping out with Bardic music.

Metahuman1
2011-10-15, 06:18 PM
Ok, how about base 14, and requires four ranks in Bluff and Diplomacy, and two ranks in Preform? Keeps it reasonably accessible but will make it a bit harder for Cha heavy Teir 2 and higher classes like Sorcerer and Favored soul to tack on in order to load up on extra castings a day/Higher DC's/Other goodness form a Jacked up Cha?

Seem reasonable?

Mystic Muse
2011-10-15, 06:26 PM
Ok, how about base 14, and requires four ranks in Bluff and Diplomacy, and two ranks in Preform? Keeps it reasonably accessible but will make it a bit harder for Cha heavy Tier 2 and higher classes like Sorcerer and Favored soul to tack on in order to load up on extra castings a day/Higher DC's/Other goodness form a Jacked up Cha?

Seem reasonable?

I don't really see any reason to try and prevent sorcerer or favored soul from it. In order to even get an extra +1 modifier, the sorcerer has to take enough levels such that they will never get 9th level spells short of epic level games or gestalt.

Not sure about the Favored Soul bit. I don't have Complete Divine.

I'd like for it to be slightly better for a Bard to take. Any possible way for me to do that? Or is it pretty good as is?

Metahuman1
2011-10-15, 06:48 PM
Ok, ideas for Succubus.

Give it a more Bard like class skills list and 6 skill points a level. That way Bards who Value the use of there skills won't feel like there sacrificing that to get the template.

Make it not take away all other racial traits. That way the Draconic creature or Catfolk Bard don't feel there having to give up a bunch of potentially nice things to use this Template/class.

Make it get Bard casting per Succubus level, and make the Bard casting stack with PRC's that advance bard casting (Like Sublime Cord.), and with actual Bard levels.

Make it progress (but not in and of itself grant.) bardic Music ability's and uses and DC's.

Make it progress (but not in and of itself grant.) Bardic Knowledge/Knack.

I saw you removed the Cha to AC that the original Savage Species progression granted the Succubus. I'd suggest putting it back. Mildly helpful for casters, but very good for a Melee Snowflake Wardance+Optimized Inspire Courage Bard build, and spiffy for a sit back and use Bardic Music and cast spells/use UMD build in case something decides he looks squishy enough to one shot and hurt the nice things the party was getting form him. Which any monster with an Int of 8 or 9 could eventually figure out, and anything with an int 13 or higher has no excuse NOT to have figured out by the second round of combat.

And one last big one.

IF they take all the levels of the class/template, allow them to have a special ability that doubles there Bonuses to hit and damage form Inspire Courage, but deals None Lethal Damage too them while they use it. Yes, this is basically words of creation. But it rewards the bard by not forcing them to be Exalted good (Something a LOT of DM's punish willfully.) to get the ability, and by saving them a feat they can now invest in something else. For a Sorcerer or a Begualer or a Binder, that's nothing special. For a Bard, that is HUGH! BTW, the fact that it's HUGH is also why it's a Capstone.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-15, 07:15 PM
Ok, ideas for Succubus.

Give it a more Bard like class skills list and 6 skill points a level. That way Bards who Value the use of there skills won't feel like there sacrificing that to get the template. That seems reasonable I guess.



Make it not take away all other racial traits. That way the Draconic creature or Catfolk Bard don't feel there having to give up a bunch of potentially nice things to use this Template/class. It won't. Templates don't take away previous features.



Make it get Bard casting per Succubus level, and make the Bard casting stack with PRC's that advance bard casting (Like Sublime Cord.), and with actual Bard levels. That seems a little strong.



Make it progress (but not in and of itself grant.) bardic Music ability's and uses and DC's.

Make it progress (but not in and of itself grant.) Bardic Knowledge/Knack.
That seems reasonable.



I saw you removed the Cha to AC that the original Savage Species progression granted the Succubus. I'd suggest putting it back. Mildly helpful for casters, but very good for a Melee Snowflake Wardance+Optimized Inspire Courage Bard build, and spiffy for a sit back and use Bardic Music and cast spells/use UMD build in case something decides he looks squishy enough to one shot and hurt the nice things the party was getting form him. Which any monster with an Int of 8 or 9 could eventually figure out, and anything with an int 13 or higher has no excuse NOT to have figured out by the second round of combat. I wasn't going off the Savage Species version. I was working purely with what the SRD gave me. I'm not sure about the AC boost.


IF they take all the levels of the class/template, allow them to have a special ability that doubles there Bonuses to hit and damage form Inspire Courage, but deals None Lethal Damage too them while they use it. Yes, this is basically words of creation. But it rewards the bard by not forcing them to be Exalted good (Something a LOT of DM's punish willfully.) to get the ability, and by saving them a feat they can now invest in something else. For a Sorcerer or a Beguiler or a Binder, that's nothing special. For a Bard, that is HUGH! BTW, the fact that it's HUGH is also why it's a Capstone.
Hmm. I do like this. I could even make the class require a bit of investment so it couldn't be entered until later like with other PRCs, and so getting that as a capstone would be fairly reasonable. And the class itself still works even for non-bards. Though, I will make a note that it doesn't stack with Words of Creation.

However, advancing all bard features in addition to what it gives you seems a little too strong. Just my personal opinion.

The Underlord
2011-10-15, 07:24 PM
could you do a nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm) monster class?

Metahuman1
2011-10-15, 07:25 PM
Ah, ok. I remembered they got it in Savage species, not sure if there listed as getting it in SRD off the top of my head, and I'm going to be soon so not much time to check I'm afraid.

And yes, make a note that it doesn't stack with Words of Creation. The idea is one or the other so that you have role play options, not one then the other for a Tim Allen more power approach.

And as for the spell casting, maybe just make it so it advances Bard spell casting then? Or just advances Spell casting in general? Couple with slightly higher requirements so that it comes out more like a PRC then a base class and it won't be too broken.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-15, 07:31 PM
Could you do a nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm) monster class?

Yes, I could.




And as for the spell casting, maybe just make it so it advances Bard spell casting then? Or just advances Spell casting in general? Couple with slightly higher requirements so that it comes out more like a PRC then a base class and it won't be too broken.

Given all the other stuff a bard would get going through this theoretical modification, I just don't think it really needs spellcasting too.

Metahuman1
2011-10-15, 07:36 PM
Ok, just a though. =)

Mystic Muse
2011-10-15, 07:40 PM
Ok, just a though. =)

Which I very much appreciate.:smallsmile:

Mystic Muse
2011-10-16, 01:13 AM
Alright. I made the changes to Succubus. It doesn't advance casting, but that's because I felt like making it just a Bard cranked up to 11 wasn't a good idea. It's still pretty darn good as is. I also changed a few things to reflect the higher level you have to be in order to even qualify.

Undead don't qualify because most are immune to energy drain, and I don't care what your charisma is, you probably aren't going to look sexy as an undead.:smalltongue:

The requirements are kinda steep, but any bard should find it easy enough to qualify for.

Metahuman1
2011-10-16, 12:36 PM
Well, not with out the use of Illusion/Enchantment/Transmutation magic. Or being a Vampire, the exception that proves the rule. But your point is made.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-21, 12:21 AM
Okay, while working on other stuff, I've been looking at the Nightmare.

The SRD version isn't going to be possible.


There is no way for me to balance getting two ninth level SLAs, especially one as broken as Astral Projection within five levels, especially ever having them be at-will. I...I just have no idea what WoTC was on when they thought that was a good idea. Traditional "Whatever it is, I'll take two of 'em" joke.

I'm going to end up doing what Hyudra did with the Frost Giant. I'm going to look at old legends about the creature, and make the creature based off of those instead of just what's in the SRD.

Mystic Muse
2011-10-30, 12:38 AM
Drakkensteed
(Dragon Magic. Took liberties on background)




Description & Details: The appearance of Drakkensteeds varies a lot. There are some that could barely be distinguished from their dragon parents, and others that barely look like they have any dragon blood in them at all. The dragon blood in them often gives them odd coat colors, and there are cases of the coat of their horse parent and their dragon's parent's scales combining colors creating grey Drakkensteeds, shimmering black ones, and even oddly splotched ones.

Adventures: Drakkensteeds do have a bit of the greed of their dragon parents, and as such enjoy treasure as much as any dragon. They tend to have a particular appreciation for gems over gold and silver. Surprisingly, despite their parentage, some Drakkensteeds serve as mounts.

Alignment: Drakkensteeds tend to follow the alignment of their Dragon parent, but this is merely a tendency. Some move above their base nature and choose their own alignments.

Religion: Drakkensteeds usually revere Dragon gods such as Io, Tiamat, or Bahamut.

Ecology/Background: Dragons are perverted beings who will do it with anything that moves, and several things that don't. This is the origin of the Drakkensteed, and many other things.

A Drakkensteed's preferred environment depends on their Equine parent. If their parent was a horse, they live in wide open plains. If their parent was a Pegasus, they live in the clouds. If their parent was a Unicorn, they prefer Forests.

Additionally, their Dragon parent's preferred environment may have an impact. A Black Dragon/Unicorn would prefer rainforests or forests.

Other classes: Drakkensteeds get along with almost any class.

Favored Class: Varies

Unicorn Drakkensteed: Cleric or Paladin

War Horse Drakkensteed: Barbarian or Fighter.

Pegasus Drakkensteed: Druid or ranger.


Class

HD:d10
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0* | +0*| +0*| +0*| Drakkensteed Body, Resistance, Racial ability, Strength+1, Constitution+1
2| +1*| +0*| +0*| +0*| Scent, Racial ability, Strength +1, Constitution+1
3| +2*| +1*| +1*| +1*| Draconic breath, Racial ability, Strength+1, Constitution+1
[/TABLE]

Skills: 4+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills are Balance, Climb, Concentration, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Spot, Survival, Swim, Use Magic Device.

Proficiencies: None besides its own natural weapons.

Features:
Drakkensteed Body: The Drakkensteed loses all other racial bonuses, and gains magical beast traits, (mainly low light vision), a base speed of 40 feet, a natural bite attack for 1d8 +strength Modifier damage, and he gains natural armor equal to his Con bonus.

Ability score increase: a Drakkensteed gains +1 Str and +1 Con for each level in this class for a total of +3 strength and +3 Constitution.

Saving throws: These are dependant on which racial path if chosen. Warhorse Drakkensteeds Have good Fortitude with bad reflex and will. Pegasus Drakkensteeds have good Reflex while having bad Fortitude and Will. Lastly, Unicorns have Good Will with bad Reflex and Fortitude.

Resistance (Ex): At first level, the Drakkensteed chooses a dragon as one of its parents. The Drakkensteed then gains resistance to its parent dragon's breath weapon equal to its HD. If its parent dragon's breath weapon doesn't deal damage (Such as a shadow dragon's or a Silver dragon's paralysis breath) no resistance is gained.

At 10 HD, this changes to immunity.


Scent (Ex): At second level, the Drakkensteed gains the Scent Extraordinary ability.


Draconic Breath(Su): At third level, the Drakkensteed gains a breath weapon dependent upon what type its dragon parent was. The breath weapon deals 1d8 damage per 2 HD with a reflex save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modiier) for half damage. If the parent dragon's breath weapon doesn't deal damage, the Drakkensteed gains no breath weapon. If the parent's breath weapon was a line, the Drakkensteed's breath is a Line 60 feet long, and it increases by 10 feet for each HD the Drakkensteed has. If the parent dragon's breath weapon was a cone, the Drakkensteed's breath weapon is a 30 foot cone. The Size of the cone increases by 5 feat for each HD the Drakkensteed has.

The breath weapon is usable once every 1d4 rounds.

Racial ability(Varies): The Drakkensteed gets the following benefits depending on the race of his parent. He must choose whether one of his parents was a warhorse, a Unicorn or a Pegasus at first level, and the benefits he gets are based on that choice.

Pegasus

Racial Skill bonus (Ex): At first level the Drakkensteed gains a racial skill bonus to Spot and Listen equal to Half its HD.

At 8 HD this becomes equal to its HD.

Cloud walk (Su): At level 2 the Drakkensteed can tread on clouds or fog as though on solid ground. The ability functions continuously but can be negated or resumed at will.

Glide (Ex): At level 3 a Drakkensteed can use his wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Drakkensteeds glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if a Drakkensteed's maneuverability improves, he can't hover while gliding. A Drakkensteed can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.

If a Drakkensteed becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, his wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them. The Drakkensteed descends slowly in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter the actual distance of the fall.

Lastly, the Drakkensteed gains a +10 bonus to jump checks from the extra lift its wings give it.

Flight (ex): At 6 HD, the Drakkensteed gains a flight speed of 10' Per HD, with poor maneuverability. The Maneuverability doesn't increase naturally, but it can take the improved maneuverability feat without meeting the pre-requisites.


Warhorse
Full BAB: The Drakkensteed has full BAB instead of 3/4 like the Unicorn and Pegasus.

Powerful Build (Ex): At first level, the Drakkensteed gains the benefit of Powerful build.

Trample (Ex): At second level, the Drakkensteed can make a trample attack. As a full-round action, a Drakkensteed can move up to 100 feet and literally run over creatures one size catory smaller than it, dealing 1d6+1 ½ strength modifier bludgeoning damage with a reflex save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier) for half damage to each target. literally running over its opponents. If enemies in its way are at least 1 size category smaller than the Drakkensteed.

The damage scales with size.


Damage Reduction (Ex): At third level, the Drakkensteed's Draconic inheritance has become more in synch with its Warhorse body. The Scales covering its body become more resilient, granting it resistance to mundane weapons. The Drakkensteed Gains DR/magic equal to half its HD.

At 10 HD, its scales become more resilient still, granting it resistance to Slashing and piercing weapons. His Damage Reduction becomes DR/Bludgeoning and Magic.


Growth (Ex):
At 4 HD the Drakkensteed may grow a size category (Ordinarily to large) and lose powerful build
At 8 HD the Drakkensteed may regain powerful build
At 12 HD the Drakkensteed may grow a size category (Ordinarily to Huge) and loses powerful build
At 16 HD the Drakkensteed may regain powerful build
At 20 HD the Drakkensteed may grow a size category (Ordinarily to Gargantuan) and loses powerful Build.
Its AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Unicorn

Cantrips (Su): At first level, the Drakkensteed gains Mage hand, ghost sound, light, prestidigitation and mending as SLAs at will.

Resistance (Ex): At second level, the Drakkensteed gains a resistance to Poison, charm, and compulsion effects equal to its HD.

At 8 HD this becomes immunity.

At 12 HD the Drakkensteed becomes immune to all diseases.

At 15 HD the Drakkensteed becomes immune to non-beneficial mind affecting effects.
Deliver us from Evil(Su): At 3rd level, the Drakkensteed is protected as if by a constant Protection from evil effect with a caster level equal to its HD. This ability can be negated or resumed at will as a free action.

At 8 HD the effect is improved to a Magic Circle against evil effect centered on the Drakkensteed.

At 18 HD the effect is improved to a Holy Aura Effect centered on the Drakkensteed.

The Save DCs for these effects are equal to 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier, and the caster level for the effects is equal to the Drakkensteed's HD.



Flight (Ex): At 6 HD, if the Drakkensteed did not choose the Pegasus racial path, he gains a fly speed of 60 feet with poor maneuverability.

Growth(Ex): At 8 HD, if the Drakkensteed did not choose the War Horse racial path, he may grow another size category, (Ordinarily to large size).


Comments None so far

Changelog

gave the Pegasus racial path a +10 bonus to jump checks.

Changed the breath weapon to per 2 HD like it was supposed to be, and added a 1d4 rounds recharge time.

Gave the warhorse path full BAB.

changed the growths to "May"

Mystic Muse
2011-11-08, 02:44 AM
Okay, something I feel is an important update.

Rather than the Silver Dragon, I've added what I believe to be important information to the first post. The Silver Dragon has been moved to the third post, and there is now an index in the first post as well. Lastly, I did something resembling a FAQ in order to answer possible questions.

I'll try to get the last of my girlfriend's requests up tomorrow, and then go back to doing requests. I've been getting distracted with other stuff lately, but am going to get back into it.

Sorry for the lack of updates.:smallfrown:

Metahuman1
2011-11-08, 01:14 PM
Dude, it's called life, it's sorta a good thing that it's happening, cause when it isn't we as a whole don't tend to get around to doing anything at all. :smallwink:

No Worries, no rush, I sure everyone understands.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-09, 07:17 PM
Unicorn (Monster Manual 1/SRD/MLP:FiM)



Description & Details: Unicorns are rather varied in their looks. They amount to simply being an oddly colored horse with a horn, but beyond that there tend to be few similarities between unicorns. Some are colored the same as normal horses, others have been seen to be the same color as zebras, or much more odd colors such as sky blue or deep purple.

Even a Unicorn's horn tends to be unique to each one. There have been sightings of unicorns with the tip of their horn broken off, horns that are one large spiraling twist, or ones that have been artificially sharpened to deal more damage when they gore their foes.

Religion: The Unicorns who do worship gods tend to worship gods of nature, or gods who control some natural element. Most often, they worship the deities of the sun and moon as long as the tenets of said deities do not conflict with their own moral dispositions.

Adventures: Unicorns most often adventure with good aligned beings, sometimes serving as mounts. Unicorns occasionally leave their homes to adventure on their own, often as some sort of service to either their home, or any gods they may serve.

Ecology/Background: Unicorns mate for life, making their homes in open dells, or glades and forests they protect. Traditionally Good and Neutral creatures are welcomed in a Unicorn's home, and may pass freely through the forest, and even hunt. Evil Creatures may do so, but only at great risk of attack from the Unicorn defending the forest. A unicorn will also attack any creature hunting for Sport in its territory, or damaging the forest maliciously.

Lone Unicorns occasionally allow themselves to be “Tamed” and ridden by good aligned creatures. Such a unicorn, if treated kindly, will act as that creature's loyal steed for life, and will even follow it outside of its forest home.

Languages: Unicorn begin play knowing Common and Sylvan, and can speak other languages for each point of intelligence bonus as per usual.

Favored Class: Paladin or Cleric

Class
HD: d8
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +0| +0 |+2| Unicorn Body, Cantrips, Spell Knowledge,
2| +1| +0| +0| +3| Resistances, Scent, +1 Charisma
3| +2| +1| +1| +4| Be Not Afraid,Wild Empathy
4| +3| +1| +1| +4| Unicorn SLAs, Blessed Beast, +1 Charisma
[/table]
4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills:Bluff, Concentration, Gather information, Heal, Knowledge(All skills, taken individually), Listen, perform, sense motive, speak language, spot, survival

Proficiencies: Unicorns are not proficient with any armor, or any weapons besides their own natural weapons.


Unicorn Body (Ex): At first level the Unicorn loses all other racial bonuses and gains the following; Magical beast traits, a primary natural gore attack for 1d6+ 1 and 1/2 Strength modifier damage, medium size, and a base land speed of 40 feet. At 8 HD, they gain two secondary hoof attacks for 1d4+Strength modifier damage each.

Unicorns use their mouths for tasks requiring fine manipulation, and as such, are treated as one handed for all purposes. At first level, the Unicorn's dexterity is treated as 4 points lower than what it actually is for tasks requiring fine manipulation. At 4 HD this penalty is reduced to 2 points lower. At 8 HD this penalty goes away entirely.

The Unicorn also gains an amount of natural armor equal to its Constitution modifier.

Lastly, the Unicorn's horn, being magic itself advances along with the unicorn. At 4 HD, the Horn has a +1 enhancement bonus and is treated as magic weapon for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. The Enhancement bonus improves by an additional +1 for every 4 HD gained.

Cantrips (Su): At first level, the Unicorn gains Mage hand, ghost sound, light, prestidigitation and mending as SLAs at will.


[b] Spell Knowledge (Su): At first level, the Unicorn chooses a school of magic, and one first level spell from that school. The unicorn can cast this spell 1/day per HD.

At 4 HD the Unicorn can choose a second level spell, which must be from the same school, and cast it 1/day per 2 HD.

At 8 HD the Unicorn can choose a third level spell, which must be from the same school, and cast it 1/day per 3 HD.

At 12 HD the Unicorn can choose a fourth level spell, which must be from the same school, and cast it 1/day per 4 HD.

At 16 HD the Unicorn can choose a fifth level spell, which must be from the same school, and cast it 1/day per 5 HD.

At 20 HD, the Unicorn can choose a 6th level spell, which must be from the same school, and cast it 1/day per 6 HD.

In addition, the Unicorn cannot choose spells with the evil descriptor, spells that would change their or another creature's form, spells that create something from nothing (Such as the creation line), or spells that summon creatures from another plane.

Resistance (Ex):At second level, the Unicorn gains a resistance to Poison, charm, and compulsion effects equal to her HD.

At 8 HD this becomes immunity.

At 12 HD she becomes immune to all diseases.

At 15 HD she becomes immune to non-beneficial mind affecting effects. For example, she can benefit from a Bard's inspire courage, but can't be affected by suggestion.


Scent (Ex): At level 2, the Pegasus gains the benefits of the Scent Extraordinary ability.

Charisma Bonus (Ex): At second level and again at fourth, the unicorn gains a +1 bonus to its Charisma Score.


Wild Empathy (Ex): As per the Druid feature. The Pegasus is treated as having a Druid level equal to its HD for the purposes of this ability.


Be Not Afraid (Su): At 3rd level, the Unicorn is protected as if by a constant Protection from evil effect with a caster level equal to her HD. This ability can be negated or resumed at will as a free action.

At 8 HD the effect is improved to a Magic Circle against evil effect centered on the Unicorn.

At 18 HD the effect is improved to a Holy Aura Effect centered on the Unicorn.

The Save DCs for these effects are equal to 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier, and the caster level for the effects is equal to the Unicorn's HD.


Unicorn SLAs (Su):

At level 4, the Unicorn can cast Cure Light wounds: 2/day per HD, At-will at 15 HD

At level 4, Cure Moderate Wounds: 1/day Per HD

At 6 HD the Unicorn can cast Cure Serious Wounds, Neutralize Poison and Remove Disease as SLAs 1/day per 2 HD

At 8 HD the Unicorn can cast Cure Critical Wounds and Death Ward as SLAs 1/day per 3 HD

At 10 HD the Unicorn can cast Cure light Wounds Mass and Break Enchantment as SLAs 1/day per 4 HD

At 12 HD the Unicorn Can cast Cure Moderate wounds, Mass and Heal 1/day per 5 HD

At 14 HD the Unicorn can cast Regenerate and Cure Serious Wounds, Mass 1/day per 6 HD

At 16 HD the Unicorn can cast Cure Critical Wounds Mass 1/day per 7 HD

At 18 HD the Unicorn can cast Heal, Mass 1/day per 8 HD

The caster level for these SLAs is equal to the Unicorn's hit dice.

Blessed Beast (Ex): At 4th level, the Unicorn gets its own familiar. This functions as per the Sorcerer/wizard familiar, and qualifies for familiar feats as well. The Unicorn's Arcane caster level for the purpose of the familiar's abilities, and for qualifying for feats is equal to its HD. The Unicorn is treated as having this Arcane caster level only for this specific purpose.

Growth (Ex): At 8 HD, the Unicorn may grow a size category, ordinarily to large size. Her AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but she doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Comments
Yet another D&D/My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic hybrid. I gave it a long line of SLAs because heal spells are so limited anyway, and being limited to just Cure Light and Cure Moderate is a pretty lousy and boring class feature.

The familiar is something from MLP:FiM. I just thought it was kind of cool and made sense in a weird way.
Changelog
Cleared up the familiar ability

Fixed the saves because I somehow screwed those up.

Added in the bit about using their mouths for manipulation. Man, I'm getting sloppy.

Gave it the Spell Knowledge ability.

Changed Spell Knowledge to allow a little more versatility.

Hyudra
2011-11-09, 08:24 PM
Languages?

It's a bit weak at first level. I mean, you're just an animal with a iffy natural attack and some cantrips.

MLP unicorns seem pretty versatile with the magic they can create. What if the class schtick was that the unicorn had a 'floating' spell. Essentially the ability to draw any one spell from their choice of the druid (for more standard unicorns) or the sorcerer (for uniponies) spell lists (this choice is made once ever) and cast it, spontaneously, maybe only once or twice a day? Then, to keep players on their toes, you could have the restriction they couldn't cast the same spell in this manner twice in the same month, or there'd be a backfire of some sort?

It builds the idea that unicorns are inherently magical, and it gives the players just a bit more oomph.

Also, I think the Unicorn should be able to qualify for Improved Familiar. I mean, think about it. Pseudodragon is an option.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-17, 04:22 PM
....Why the heck did this not notify me that I had a new post in my thread? Sorry for the delayed response Hyudra



Languages?

The SRD gives them both Sylvan and common. I figured I should cover everything I can, and the only thing I tend to leave out is starting wealth, which I'm not sure what to do with.



It's a bit weak at first level. I mean, you're just an animal with a iffy natural attack and some cantrips. True I guess. I'll try and think up something else to boost it.



MLP unicorns seem pretty versatile with the magic they can create. What if the class schtick was that the unicorn had a 'floating' spell. Essentially the ability to draw any one spell from their choice of the druid (for more standard unicorns) or the sorcerer (for uniponies) spell lists (this choice is made once ever) and cast it, spontaneously, maybe only once or twice a day? Then, to keep players on their toes, you could have the restriction they couldn't cast the same spell in this manner twice in the same month, or there'd be a backfire of some sort? I'm not sure what you're saying here. Make it so they can cast it only once or twice a day, and if they cast it more than once a month it backfires? That seems REALLY limited.



Also, I think the Unicorn should be able to qualify for Improved Familiar. I mean, think about it. Pseudodragon is an option.

I was under the impression I had written it to be able to qualify for improved familiar (And, more importantly, dragon familiar)

Also, apparently I got the saves really screwed up. I'm....not sure how that happened.


Update on Monster classes I've been working on: Nightmare and Werebear are going to be up in a few days. I've got the bare bones for a few others done, but if there are any sorts of requests, I'd be quite happy to try and get those done if they aren't too high level (The problem with the Titan).

mootoall
2011-11-21, 06:26 PM
I know it's CR 15, but I'd be interested in seeing an Illurien (MMV) monster class, if you don't mind.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-21, 06:57 PM
I know it's CR 15, but I'd be interested in seeing an Illurien (MMV) monster class, if you don't mind.

Ah yes. Illurien. The first Monster I ever attempted to make into a full class if I recall correctly.

As is probably quite apparent from her lack of presence in this thread, that didn't work out.

Illurien is tough for many reasons. There's her Rejuvenation ability which makes her nearly unkillable, There's Pointed Knowledge which is a DM nightmare, and last but not least, the Aethenaum Nefarious which has to be statted out as well to make her accurate to her original self. That's on top of her being a CR 15 monster, and having a lot of abilities to spread out.

I'll try to pull it off, but her being done by New Year's Eve would probably be a stroke of luck.

Two things I should mention.

1. Don't bother nominating monsters in the Monster classes voting thread anymore. Unless somebody associated with the project says otherwise, It's dead Jim.

2. I'll try and get Werebear up tonight. Things have been busy again lately, and they'll likely be busy this week too. There's Thanksgiving coming up, I'm DMing a game on Saturday and need to prepare, and my Grandpa isn't feeling well, so I might have to go down to Evansville in a couple of days, so the Nightmare probably won't be up any time soon. .

Metahuman1
2011-11-21, 07:08 PM
Hey, i'm sorry about your grandfather. Don't rush on the project, just take it as time comes available. Being patient so you have time to deal with real life isn't going to hurt anything for anyone. =)

mootoall
2011-11-21, 07:13 PM
Ah yes. Illurien. The first Monster I ever attempted to make into a full class if I recall correctly.

As is probably quite apparent from her lack of presence in this thread, that didn't work out.

Illurien is tough for many reasons. There's her Rejuvenation ability which makes her nearly unkillable, There's Pointed Knowledge which is a DM nightmare, and last but not least, the Aethenaum Nefarious which has to be statted out as well to make her accurate to her original self. That's on top of her being a CR 15 monster, and having a lot of abilities to spread out.

I'll try to pull it off, but her being done by New Year's Eve would probably be a stroke of luck.


Hmm, good points.

If her Rejuvenation ability is anything like a Ghost's, then it could probably just be granted, with the same limitations, at the same level you'd give it to a ghost. As it stands, the level check of the ghost might actually be a good idea; set some DC that's difficult to achieve at lower levels, but then becomes more easily made as she approaches the levels where Contingent True Resurrections actually aren't that uncommon. Alternatively, give it to her at the same level she gets her demon library of demonicness, discussed below.

The Aethenaum Nefarious is another interesting problem. Access to the Stronghold Builder's Guide might make it easier to make, but disregarding the physical aspects of it, which they player should be allowed to make up, how about it, like all other class features, scales with HD? It's a safe retreat the monster gets at, say, level 10, which gives a scaling bonus to all Knowledge checks? If you delay its rejuvination ability, perhaps say that this is the point where the Illurien's personal library has grown too big to carry, and now must be stored in its own, extremely magical building, which is created by the expenditure of a certain amount of time and materials, determined by a formula in the SBG?

Pointed Knowledge I'm not sure how to handle either.

Remember to feel free to ignore my deluded ramblings; I'm quite terrible at this sort of thing :smalltongue:



Two things I should mention.

1. Don't bother nominating monsters in the Monster classes voting thread anymore. Unless somebody associated with the project says otherwise, It's dead Jim.

2. I'll try and get Werebear up tonight. Things have been busy again lately, and they'll likely be busy this week too. There's Thanksgiving coming up, I'm DMing a game on Saturday and need to prepare, and my Grandpa isn't feeling well, so I might have to go down to Evansville in a couple of days, so the Nightmare probably won't be up any time soon. .

:smallfrown: I hope your holiday season goes well!

Mystic Muse
2011-11-21, 07:21 PM
The Aethenaum Nefarious is another interesting problem. Access to the Stronghold Builder's Guide might make it easier to make, but disregarding the physical aspects of it, which they player should be allowed to make up, how about it, like all other class features, scales with HD? It's a safe retreat the monster gets at, say, level 10, which gives a scaling bonus to all Knowledge checks? If you delay its rejuvination ability, perhaps say that this is the point where the Illurien's personal library has grown too big to carry, and now must be stored in its own, extremely magical building, which is created by the expenditure of a certain amount of time and materials, determined by a formula in the SBG? Actually, she'd probably get it at level one, and it would expand as she grows in power. At first, it'd be like three or four shelves with various books. At level 15, or a certain HD, or whatever I ended up doing with it, it'd probably end up being like the Library at Alexandria or the Library of Congress. This is something I experimented with the first time I tried creating her. At a certain HD or level, she got extra rooms that had certain benefits, such as a room that helped with divinations, or a room that gave her access to creating magic items, ETC.

If I can find where my original drafts went, I might be able to work from those.





Remember to feel free to ignore my deluded ramblings; I'm quite terrible at this sort of thing :smalltongue:
I think you underestimate how happy feedback and help makes me at this point. :smalltongue:



:smallfrown: I hope your holiday season goes well!
Yours too.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-22, 12:05 AM
Alright. Due to my word processor not functioning right now, Werebear will have to wait until tomorrow. :smallfrown:

In the meantime, I'll do the only thing I can and look over previous classes for mistakes, and get rid of the links to the Monster class project since it's dead.

mootoall
2011-11-22, 12:34 PM
Since you're looking for feedback, I figured I'd do a little bit to help.

Drakkensteed

There are a few minor capitalization/grammar issues here, but those will be fixed in due time, I imagine, so I won't focus on those.

Breath Weapon Is this meant to be an at-will, no recharge ability? Because if so, I might suggest lowering it to either 1d8/2 HD, or 1d6/2 HD, to keep it closer in line with the DFA. Considering the fact that it's got only three levels that it invests in the breath weapon, with plenty of room for multiclassing, whereas the DFA has to stay in for 18-20 levels to get its best options, including invocations and breath effects, and the fact that the Drakkensteed gets a bunch of neat things as well, I'd think about lowering it.

Pegasus No real complaints about this particular racial path, though I'd consider allowing the wings to give a bonus to jump checks, so that Warblade multiclassing becomes more attractive.

Warhorse Couldn't hurt to give the Drakkensteed full BAB if they take the Warhorse path. Only gives them a +1 BAB, but it's nice at first level.

Trample I'd recommend stating that trample attack damage increases in size with you, elsewise it quickly becomes less relevant,since you can't PA with it. Additionally, I'd base the save off of strength, but that's just because it makes more sense to me.

Growth The problem with growth without stat boosts is that you lose a lot of to-hit, and become a lot *easier* to hit. I'd recommend, to counterbalance this just a tad, giving the Warhorse an enhancement bonus to its natural weapons scaling with HD.

Unicorn Looks pretty nice all-around, maybe include a clause that each level in Drakkensteed Unicorn counts towards half a level in sorcerer/cleric/paladin for casting?

Mystic Muse
2011-11-22, 01:01 PM
Since you're looking for feedback, I figured I'd do a little bit to help.

Drakkensteed

Breath Weapon Is this meant to be an at-will, no recharge ability? Because if so, I might suggest lowering it to either 1d8/2 HD, or 1d6/2 HD, to keep it closer in line with the DFA. Considering the fact that it's got only three levels that it invests in the breath weapon, with plenty of room for multiclassing, whereas the DFA has to stay in for 18-20 levels to get its best options, including invocations and breath effects, and the fact that the Drakkensteed gets a bunch of neat things as well, I'd think about lowering it. Gah. Drakkensteed has apparently been my sloppiest work yet.:smallsigh:

It's supposed to be a 1d4 recharge time. I'll edit that in. It was also supposed to be per 2 HD, so I apparently just didn't click on the "2" key hard enough.



Pegasus No real complaints about this particular racial path, though I'd consider allowing the wings to give a bonus to jump checks, so that Warblade multiclassing becomes more attractive. Alright. Good idea.




Warhorse Couldn't hurt to give the Drakkensteed full BAB if they take the Warhorse path. Only gives them a +1 BAB, but it's nice at first level. Alright. Seems reasonable.



Trample I'd recommend stating that trample attack damage increases in size with you, elsewise it quickly becomes less relevant,since you can't PA with it. Additionally, I'd base the save off of strength, but that's just because it makes more sense to me. Alright, I'll edit that in.




Growth The problem with growth without stat boosts is that you lose a lot of to-hit, and become a lot *easier* to hit. I'd recommend, to counterbalance this just a tad, giving the Warhorse an enhancement bonus to its natural weapons scaling with HD. Eh, I guess that'd be okay.




Unicorn Looks pretty nice all-around, maybe include a clause that each level in Drakkensteed Unicorn counts towards half a level in sorcerer/cleric/paladin for casting? These are considered almost universally a bad idea. This was also the problem with the previous versions of Illurien and a lot of other monster classes.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-22, 02:55 PM
Were-Bear (SRD)





Description and details: Were-Bears come from all over. In their humanoid forms, they can be just about anything from little kids to wizened Elders.

There are Werebears of just about every type. The most common are Black, Brown, Polar and Dire, but there are also sightings of Pandas, koalas, and just about any other type of Bear you can think of.


Adventures: Lycanthropes are just as varied as Humanoids, Goblinoids, Monstrous Humanoids, and giants when it comes to adventure. They'll search for anything that appeals to them, kill anything that threatens them, or walk in the service of a greater Good, or evil as the case my be.

Alignment: Lycanthropes have no natural alignements. You are as likely to meet a Lawful Good Were-Bear as you are a chaotic Evil Were-Bear.

Religion: Lycanthropes tend to worship whatever deities they worshiped before being transformed, or worship deities of the night if they give in to the beast, or revel in their new forms.

Other Classes: Lycanthropes get along well with most classes. The only exceptions are excessively zealous Paladins or clerics.


Were-bear Prerequisites
To become a Were-bear, the character must meet the following requirements

Race: Any Medium or Large humanoid, goblinoid, Monstrous humanoid, or giant.
Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another Were-bear.

Class
HD: d12
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +2| +0 |+0| Were-Bear Body, Form of the Beast, Curse of Lycanthropy
2| +1| +3| +0| +0| Scent, Skill Bonus,
3| +2| +3| +1| +1| Skin of the Beast, Rage
4| +3| +4| +1| +1| Improved Grapple, Destructive Rage
5| +3| +4| +1| +1| Bear Form, Improved Toughness,
[/table]
4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Climb, Spot, Listen, Intimidate, Survival, Swim, Handle Animal,

Proficiencies: Were-Bears are not proficient with any armor, or any weapons besides their own natural weapons.


Were-bear Body (Ex): The Were-bear retains any previous racial bonuses it had, and gains the magical beast type, granting it Darkvision 60 and low light vision. Additionally, it gains the shapechanger subtype, and the ability to communicate with bears regardless of form.


Form of the Beast (Su): At 1st Level, the Were-bear can change into a Hybrid form. This grants him the following Benefits.
A Bonus to his strength and Constitution Scores Equal to half his Hit Dice.
Two Claw attacks for 1d4+Strength modifier damage (1d6 if large)
A Bite attack for 1d4+1/2 strength modifier damage (1d6 if large)
A Natural Armor bonus equal to his Constitution modifier.

The Were-bear has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the Were-bear’s original form, as well as its Hybrid or Animal Forms. While using alternate form the Were-bear reverts to its original form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the Were-bear:

The Were-bear retains the type and subtype of its Original form. It gains the size of its Bear or Hybrid Form. (As Specified). If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the Were-bear gains that subtype as well.
The Were-bear loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its Original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its Original form not derived from non-monster class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
The Were-bear gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of Bear or Hybrid Form. (As Specified).
The Were-bear retains the special qualities of its Original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its Bear or Hybrid Form. (Unless Specified Otherwise.)
The Were-bear retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its Bear or Hybrid Form.
The Were-bear retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
Except as described elsewhere, the Were-bear retains all other game statistics of its Original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
The Were-bear retains any spellcasting ability it had in its Original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components. Hybrids may speak and have humanoid enough hands if the Were-bear's Original form has hands.
The Were-bear is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its Bear or Hybrid Form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
Any gear worn or carried by the Were-bear that can’t be worn or carried in its Bear or Hybrid Form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the Were-bear changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its Bear or Hybrid Form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.




Curse of Lycanthrophy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a Were-Tiger’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC equals 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) or contract Lycanthropy.

Scent(Ex): At second level, the Were-Bear gains the Scent special ability regardless of form.


Skill Bonus (Ex): At second level, the Were-bear possesses skill bonuses related to his parent animal's form. Regardless of form, the Were-bear has a racial bonus to Swim, Climb and intimidate equal to Half his Hit dice.

Lycanthrope skin (Su): The Were-bear's skin starts becoming Supernaturally tough. At third level, the Were-bear gains Damage reduction Silver equal to half his Hit dice regardless form.

At 12 HD, this becomes DR/-

Eventually, the skin even starts repairing injuries in front of its opponent's very eyes. At 12 HD the Were-bear gains Fast healing equal to ¼ his HD rounded down.

Rage (Ex): At 3rd level, the Were-Bear gains the rage ability as per the Barbarian’s rage ability, usable twice a day. The number of times rage is usable per day increases by one for every 4 HD the Were-Bear gains beyond this point.

Destructive Rage (Ex): At 4th level, while you are in a rage or frenzy, you gain a +8 bonus on any Strength checks you make to break down doors or break inanimate, immobile objects.

Improved Grapple: At 4th level, the Were-bear gains Improved Grapple as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the pre-requisites.

Bear Form (Su): At 5th level, the Were-Bear becomes capable of turning into its patron form, granting him the benefits of being a natural Bear. This form grants him a +12 Strength, and +6 Constitution boost. This acts in all other ways as per the alternate form ability.

At 8 HD he can become a Polar Bear, and the Constitution boost improves to +8

At 12 HD he can become a Dire Bear and changes the Strength boost changes to +16

At 16 HD the Strength boost becomes +20

These constitution boosts do not actually increase HP.

While in bear form, the Were-Bear has the benefits of the improved Grab Special attack.

The Were-Bear may use this ability 1/day per HD. A use of this ability counts as a use of your hybrid form, and vice versa.

Improved toughness (Ex) At 5th level, the Were-Bear's max health is increased by 1 Hit Point per HD.

At 10 HD the Were-Bear's max health is increased by 2 Hit points per HD.

At 15 HD the Were-Bear's max health is increased by 3 Hit Points per HD.

At 20 HD the Were-Bear's max health is increased by 4 Hit points per HD.

These bonuses overlap, and do not stack. A 15th level Werebear would have 45 extra HP, not 90.

Comments I had to spread things out a bit more, but I tried to make each level up fairly attractive so that the player would debate between multi-classing out, or taking it to the highest level.

My reasoning behind the abilities is simple. Bears are tough, they're destructive, and they can get Angry. Because of this, I gave it rage, destructive rage, improved toughness, and I made sure the Damage reduction got better than normal eventually. If anything, I'm worried I overloaded the class rather than not giving it enough.

Changelog Nothing so far

Metahuman1
2011-11-22, 03:18 PM
YAY!!!!!!!

*Glomps Soft Serve!*


THIS CLASS IS AWESOME!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!

I SOOOOOO wanna get this in a game, maybe go for unarmed combatant build.

Hmmmmm, you know, Monk and Fist of the Forest with Decisive strike and an attack of opportunity build is REALLY tempting right off the top of my head with this class as the base, I'd actually be strong and tough enough to make it fee sable.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-22, 03:38 PM
YAY!!!!!!!

*Glomps Soft Serve!*


THIS CLASS IS AWESOME!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!

I SOOOOOO wanna get this in a game, maybe go for unarmed combatant build.

Hmmmmm, you know, Monk and Fist of the Forest with Decisive strike and an attack of opportunity build is REALLY tempting right off the top of my head with this class as the base, I'd actually be strong and tough enough to make it feasible.

I aim to please. :smallbiggrin:

Nightmare is going to take a while longer. I did some editing in order to boost it and make it less boring so it has an entire dead level right now, and I still need to write the whole thing out. Plus, considering how Sloppy Drakkensteed apparently was, I also need to read it over about 3 times once it is finished to make sure I don't miss anything. Lastly, I still need to do some editing on the Unicorn since Hyudra mentioned it was kinda weak.

Status Update on Illurien: I actually did find an old draft of her, and while it'll still take a while, it won't take as long as if I had to make her from scratch.

I have the feeling that since I've already done two, people are going to be asking for more were-monsters. While I might do more in the future, I'm trying to make sure I have a little variety in my offerings, so no more of those any time soon. I'm also not going to make any Were-animals that aren't in the SRD, so please don't request them. I remember one of the iterations of the community thread had about 20 different types of Lycanthrope, and I'm really not in the mood to do that.

I think I've addressed any concerns. Anybody have any questions?

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 12:16 AM
Nightmare (SRD)

Credit to Trixie for inspiration.


Description and Details: Nightmares are almost exclusively black horses. They are only distinguishable at birth and in their youth by their demonic seeming eyes.

Once fully grown, their manes, tails, and even Hooves are permanently set aflame, distinguishing them from their mortal Brethren. The color of the flame is what tends to vary. There are flames in every color of the rainbow, white, and even black.

Adventures: Fear is a powerful Motivator, and Nightmares generally adventure in order to spread fear far and wide. Each Nightmare's reason for doing so is different, and most have a preferred method. The most common way of spreading fear among Nightmares is by affecting dreams.

Alignment: Nightmares are usually not Altruistic. The vast majority of them work in self interest, or because they enjoy spreading fear. The former are generally neutral, and the latter generally evil. If raised in their natural environment of Hades, Nightmares will be almost exclusively evil.

Ecology/Background: Nightmares exist almost solely in the Plane of Hades. There are exceptions, but they are rare, and are likely to be one of the few good or neutral Nightmares that exist.

Religion: Nightmares, if they worship anything, will generally worship gods of fear, or who wish to spread fear. If gods of fear do not mesh with their alignment, they will worship a god who is at least indifferent to their actions

Other Classes: Even if they're their allies, Nightmares tend to have a natural bias against creatures immune to fear such as Paladins. Nightmares also tend to have a natural bias towards classes that spread fear such as the dread Witch.

Favored Class: Warlock

Class
HD: d10
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +2| +2 |+0| Nightmare Body, Touch of Fatigue, Burning Hands
2| +1| +2| +2| +0| Cause Fear, Flaming Sphere, +1 Charisma
3| +2| +3| +3| +1| Deepest Dream, Dream Deprivation, +1 Strength
4| +3| +3| +3| +1| Smoke, Ray of Exhaustion, Scorching Ray, +1 Charisma
5| +3| +4| +4| +1| Growth, Flaming body, Nightmare, +1 Strength
[/table]
4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival

Proficiencies: Nightmares are not proficient with any armor, or any weapons besides their own natural weapons.


Nightmare Body (Ex): At first level the Nightmare loses all other racial bonuses and gains the following; Outsider traits, a primary natural bite attack for 1d4+Strength modifier damage, and two natural Hoof attacks for 1d6+Strength modifier damage, medium size, and a base land speed of 40 feet.

The Nightmare also gains an amount of natural armor equal to its Constitution modifier.

Touch of Fatigue (Su): At first level, the Nightmare gains Touch of Fatigue as an SLA, usable at-will.

At 12 HD this becomes waves of Fatigue and remains usable at-will.

Burning Hands (Su): At First level, the Nightmare gains Flaming hands as an SLA, usable at-will.

Ability boosts (Ex): The Nightmare receives a +1 bonus to its Charisma Score at level 2 and 4, and a +1 bonus to its Strength Score at level 3 and 5 for a total of +2 Charisma and +2 Strength at level 5.

Cause Fear (Su): At Second level, the Nightmare gains Cause Fear as an SLA usable 1/day per HD

At 4 HD this improves to Scare and remains usable 1/day per HD.

At 10 HD this becomes Fear and remains usable 1/day per HD.

Flaming Sphere (Su): At 2nd level, the Nightmare gains Flaming Sphere as an SLA usable 1/day per HD

Dream Deprivation (Su): At third level, the Nighmare may target one enemy within 100 feet+10 feet per HD. The target must succeed on a Will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) or be put into a state of sensory deprivation. The target is both blinded and deafened. This ability is usable 1/day per 3 HD.

At 8 HD, this affects both Scent and Blindsense

At 12 HD, this affects Blindsight as well.

At 16 HD, all senses that would allow the target to see or hear are completely shut down regardless of origin.

Deepest Dream (Su): At 3rd level, the Nightmare may target one enemy per 2 HD within 100 feet+10 feet per HD. The enemy is fatigued if they fail on a will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier). If they fail this save, at the beginning of their next turn they must make a will save (Same DC) or become exhausted. If they fail this save, they must make a third save at the beginning of their next turn o be rendered unconscious.

If an enemy is already fatigued, they must instead make a save versus exhaustion and then against unconsciousness.

If an enemy is already exhausted, they must instead make a save versus unconsciousness.

This ability is usable 1/day per 2 HD.

Smoke (Su): At 4th level, During the excitement of battle, a nightmare snorts and neighs with rage. This snorting fills a 15-foot cone with a hot, sulfurous smoke that chokes and blinds opponents. Anyone in the cone must succeed on Fortitude Save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Constitution Modifier) or take a -2 penalty on all attack and damage rolls while within the cone and until 1d6 minutes after leaving the cone. The cone lasts 1 round, and is usable at-will

At 10 HD, this gives the Nightmare Concealment against any creature more than 15 feet away from it.

At 15 HD, this give the Nightmare Total concealment against any creature more than 15 feet away from it, and concealment against all creatures.

A Nighmare is not hampered by its own smoke, and can see through it just fine.

Ray of Exhaustion (Su): At level 4 the Nightmare gains Ray of Exhaustion as an SLA usable 1/day per 3 HD.

At 15 HD, this improves to Waves of Exhaustion.

Scorching Ray (Su): At 4th level, the Nightmare gains Scorching Ray as an SLA usable 1/day per 2 HD.


Nightmare(Su): At 5th level, the Nightmare can use Nightmare as a Spell like ability 1/day per 5 HD.

Flaming Body (Su): At 5th level, the Nightmare's body lights aflame. This ability has several benefits, the first of which is that all natural weapons gain the flaming enchantment.

At 10 HD, this becomes the Flaming Burst Enchantment.

At 15 HD, any Creature within 5 feet of the Nightmare at any time during their turn takes fire damage equal to the Nightmare's HD. In addition, the flames on their natural weapons, and from this ability is hellfire, piercing through any fire resistance or immunity that those affected may have.

A Nightmare cannot be damaged by its own flaming body.

Growth (Ex): At 5th level, the Nightmare grows to large size. Its AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills Change accordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Flight (Su): At 12 HD, the Nightmare gains a Fly speed of 10 feet per HD at average maneuverability.

At 17 HD this improves to good maneuverability.


CommentsThere was really no way for me to get Astral Projection and etherealness in on a 5 level class.

The Nightmare is based around giving people Nightmares and spreading fear, along with exhausting people, and various other sleep related abilities.



ChangelogGave it Hooves at First level

Gave it Burning Hands as an SLA

Gave it Scorching Ray as an SLA

Gave it Flaming Sphere as an SLA

Removed Sleep as an SLA

Hyudra
2011-11-25, 12:28 AM
Hrm.

1st level is a little weak, again. BAB 0, an attack for 1d4+Str, and ability to apply fatigue. Remember, this is a creature without hands, so you can make it a bit more powerful or versatile to compensate, maybe.

Favored class: Cleric feels a bit out of place. I mean, you're getting +Cha via. the class. At the very least, I'd suggest Favored Class: Favored Soul, but the class that fits the most, IMHO, is Warlock.

Overall, I'd say it maybe feels a bit thin. You don't get that many SLAs in total, some are redundant, and your offensive output feels a bit delayed (ie. Hooves at 8HD). You're also fairly ineffective against, say, undead. Imagine a lowish level character with a few levels in Nightmare against an ogre Skeleton - DR, not affected by fatigue, not affected by exhaustion, not affected by the mind affecting stuff.

If I had any suggestions, I'd recommend a class feature that works off of the enemy being fatigued, exhausted or unconscious. Mess with their heads, be actually nightmarish.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 12:49 AM
Hrm.

1st level is a little weak, again. BAB 0, an attack for 1d4+Str, and ability to apply fatigue. Remember, this is a creature without hands, so you can make it a bit more powerful or versatile to compensate, maybe. Alright. Any particular suggestions? Maybe reduce the hooves down to 4 HD, or even just giving them out at first level?



Favored class: Cleric feels a bit out of place. I mean, you're getting +Cha via. the class. At the very least, I'd suggest Favored Class: Favored Soul, but the class that fits the most, IMHO, is Warlock. for some reason, my brain is stuck on "Stick purely to SRD classes" mode. Warlock sounds good.



Overall, I'd say it maybe feels a bit thin. You don't get that many SLAs in total, some are redundant, and your offensive output feels a bit delayed (ie. Hooves at 8HD). You're also fairly ineffective against, say, undead. Imagine a lowish level character with a few levels in Nightmare against an ogre Skeleton - DR, not affected by fatigue, not affected by exhaustion, not affected by the mind affecting stuff.

You do have a point. Though, undead just seem like something Nightmares wouldn't interact with. It seems a bit like it defeats the purpose of the class to send something specifically immune to everything they can do up against them. Though, there are DMs that do that, so I would like to think of something decent to counteract that.



If I had any suggestions, I'd recommend a class feature that works off of the enemy being fatigued, exhausted or unconscious. Mess with their heads, be actually nightmarish.

I'm not really quite sure how to do this. Again, any suggestions? Even just something to look at for inspiration would help.

Lastly, I did try to address the problem with the Unicorn while making sure it couldn't be abused too badly. Take a look if you get the chance?

Hyudra
2011-11-25, 01:31 AM
Alright. Any particular suggestions? Maybe reduce the hooves down to 4 HD, or even just giving them out at first level?

I don't think it would be gamebreaking to get it at 1st or 2nd level.

If I were really trying to polish the class, I'd try to give it a more concrete, "This is something you can fall back on the majority of the time" class feature early, and grant hooves at some point a bit later. Just attacking all the time (perhaps opening with a touch of fatigue) for 26 or so encounters before you get more class features to draw on in combat is a bit on the boring side.


For some reason, my brain is stuck on "Stick purely to SRD classes" mode. Warlock sounds good.

AFAIK, warlock is on the SRD somewhere. But yeah.


You do have a point. Though, undead just seem like something Nightmares wouldn't interact with. It seems a bit like it defeats the purpose of the class to send something specifically immune to everything they can do up against them. Though, there are DMs that do that, so I would like to think of something decent to counteract that.

My working assumption is that a monster class may well be something you stick in a regular (or slightly irregular) adventuring group. So you might have the dread necromancer, paladin of tyranny and rogue with an ogre in tow, fighting the same range of threats any adventuring group might.

Generally speaking, if you get near totally, 100% hosed by most undead, there's a big problem. If I think of anything for you, I'll post or IM it.


I'm not really quite sure how to do this. Again, any suggestions? Even just something to look at for inspiration would help.

Perhaps something like, "You gain X, Y and Z as SLAs, but they can only be used to affect fatigued (or exhausted, or unconscious) foes."

So you're starting to fatigue, your eyes are drifting shut, and there's a nightmare in front of you... that should be something that makes barbarians soil their loincloths.

For example:

Somnambulance - At 6th level you gain the ability to cast Dominate Monster on unconscious targets. They rise from their slumber and act as you bid, often committing nightmarish acts that, even as faint dreamlike memories, leave them haunted for days, months or years.


Lastly, I did try to address the problem with the Unicorn while making sure it couldn't be abused too badly. Take a look if you get the chance?

Ok, but not tonight. Turning in.

Keep it up. Kudos on keeping the monster classes alive.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 01:46 AM
I don't think it would be gamebreaking to get it at 1st or 2nd level.

If I were really trying to polish the class, I'd try to give it a more concrete, "This is something you can fall back on the majority of the time" class feature early, and grant hooves at some point a bit later. Just attacking all the time (perhaps opening with a touch of fatigue) for 26 or so encounters before you get more class features to draw on in combat is a bit on the boring side. Alright, good point. I'll work on that.




AFAIK, warlock is on the SRD somewhere. But yeah.
I think it's in one of the complete books.



My working assumption is that a monster class may well be something you stick in a regular (or slightly irregular) adventuring group. So you might have the dread necromancer, paladin of tyranny and rogue with an ogre in tow, fighting the same range of threats any adventuring group might.

Generally speaking, if you get near totally, 100% hosed by most undead, there's a big problem. If I think of anything for you, I'll post or IM it.
You do have a point.



Perhaps something like, "You gain X, Y and Z as SLAs, but they can only be used to affect fatigued (or exhausted, or unconscious) foes."

So you're starting to fatigue, your eyes are drifting shut, and there's a nightmare in front of you... that should be something that makes barbarians soil their loincloths.

For example:

Somnambulance - At 6th level you gain the ability to cast Dominate Monster on unconscious targets. They rise from their slumber and act as you bid, often committing nightmarish acts that, even as faint dreamlike memories, leave them haunted for days, months or years.

This is the kind of ability I really don't want to give any monster class. Enchantment is one of my least favorite schools, and the dominate line especially. While I don't mind making them nightmare-ish, taking over another person's/creature's body is pretty much not going to be a feature of any class I make. At the very least, it's not going to be a major one.


Kudos on keeping the monster classes alive.

Thanks. :smallsmile:

TravelLog
2011-11-25, 01:48 AM
Is there any chance of you making a Baernoloth? I know there aren't any official stats out there, but I've always wanted to see one. And maybe something with Obyriths?

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 01:51 AM
Is there any chance of you making a Baernoloth? I know there aren't any official stats out there, but I've always wanted to see one. And maybe something with Obyriths?

Them being official isn't a problem. Them not having stats period would be, though not an insurmountable one.

I'm not familiar with either of those though. Can you give me a description? Links to the monster/ where they're located would also be nice if you have them.

Alright. An Obyrith or two might be feasible, but Baernoloths probably won't, short of somebody having statted them up, and me having that to work off of.

Are there any particular Obyriths you were looking for that I could specifically address? The ones I've seen vary between things like little CR 4s to CR 20+ Demon lords.

TravelLog
2011-11-25, 11:42 AM
Here are a couple Baernoloth stat blocks if you're still looking:
Link One (http://www.geocities.ws/paranoidus_maximus/Baernaloth.htm)
Link Two (http://locitp.mornproductions.com/Baernoloth)

As for Obyriths, I wasn't thinking of anything in particular. Something with a high challenge rating would good though, simply because Obyriths are supposed to predate the Tanarii. Maybe Pale Night or Pazuzu? :D
Kidding. Any Obyriths would be fine.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 11:46 AM
Here are a couple Baernoloth stat blocks if you're still looking:
Link One (http://www.geocities.ws/paranoidus_maximus/Baernaloth.htm)
Link Two (http://locitp.mornproductions.com/Baernoloth)
Well, just don't expect an epic progression or it to be done any time soon. CR 20 classes take-



Maybe Pale Night or Pazuzu? :D

........

You hate me, don't you?:smalltongue:

TravelLog
2011-11-25, 12:04 PM
Well, just don't expect an epic progression or it to be done any time soon. CR 20 classes take-



........

You hate me, don't you?:smalltongue:

:smallsmile:
I do not. In fact, I'm continually impressed by the quality and quantity of your work and having nothing but respect for you.

*Boom* Defeated by a serious compliment!

Anyway, take your time. I just suggested them because I know you're always looking for new ideas.

TheGeckoKing
2011-11-25, 12:18 PM
Nice to see you're still making monster classes. Not sure what I think about the pony theme though :smallconfused:


Here are a couple Baernoloth stat blocks if you're still looking:
Link One (http://www.geocities.ws/paranoidus_maximus/Baernaloth.htm)
Link Two (http://locitp.mornproductions.com/Baernoloth)


Oooooo, ideas.......*Scuttles off into his lair to craft away*

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 12:25 PM
:smallsmile:
I do not. In fact, I'm continually impressed by the quality and quantity of your work and having nothing but respect for you.

*Boom* Defeated by a serious compliment!

Anyway, take your time. I just suggested them because I know you're always looking for new ideas.

Thanks. Though, I'll probably the lower CR ones before the higher CR ones, just for the sake of simplicity.


Nice to see you're still making monster classes. Not sure what I think about the pony theme though :smallconfused:

I'm getting away from that for a while, so don't worry about any more of those any time soon. Apparently, my requests now consist of Illurien, Baernoloths, and Obyriths/demon lords. In other words, pretty much the exact opposite.

TheGeckoKing
2011-11-25, 12:28 PM
I'm getting away from that for a while, so don't worry about any more of those any time soon. Apparently, my requests now consist of Illurien, Baernoloths, and Obyriths/demon lords. In other words, pretty much the exact opposite.

1. I never said the ponies were BAD, just confusing. :smallwink:
2. Seeing as I can't think of anything else to homebrew, I think I'll have a go at the Baern myself. I'll also fish out my list of all the published Obyrith (don't ask) if you want.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 12:32 PM
1. I never said the ponies were BAD, just confusing. :smallwink:
2. Seeing as I can't think of anything else to homebrew, I think I'll have a go at the Baern myself. I'll also fish out my list of all the published Obyrith (don't ask) if you want.

1. Aaah. My mistake.

Here, I'll clear up your confusion. My Girlfriend requested them.:smalltongue:

2. A list of all the published ones, and their sources, would be great. Feel free to tackle the Baern, because it has several abilities that don't sit well with me. That's not to say that I won't ever do it, but probably not going to happen any time soon.

TheGeckoKing
2011-11-25, 12:41 PM
1. Aaah. My mistake.

Here, I'll clear up your confusion. My Girlfriend requested them.:smalltongue:


And here I thought the ponies were taking over the internet. :smallbiggrin:


2. A list of all the published ones, and their sources, would be great. Feel free to tackle the Baern, because it has several abilities that don't sit well with me. That's not to say that I won't ever do it, but probably not going to happen any time soon.

Your list, my friend;

CR 4 - Ekolid (FC1 p38)
CR 10 - Draudnu (MMV p24), Laghathti (Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060620a&page=1))
CR 14 - Verkia (Dragon 357 p31)
CR 15 - Sibrex (FCI p53)
CR 16 - Uzollru (Draon 349 p41)
CR 16 - Uzollru (Draon 349 p41)
Obyrith Demon Lords - FCI

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 01:58 PM
And here I thought the ponies were taking over the internet. :smallbiggrin: Oh they are. It's just that it isn't the reason I made them.

I'm atually a pretty darn big fan of the show, as is probably obvious from my multiple avatars.



Your list, my friend;

CR 4 - Ekolid (FC1 p38)
CR 10 - Draudnu (MMV p24), Laghathti (Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060620a&page=1))
CR 14 - Verkia (Dragon 357 p31)
CR 15 - Sibrex (FCI p53)
CR 16 - Uzollru (Draon 349 p41)
Obyrith Demon Lords - FCI

Thanks.

Alright, the ones I'd be most likely to do would be the Ekolid and the Laghathti. The sibriex and Draudnu just look odd, and I don't have a way to get either of the dragon magazine ones. Granted, the Ekolid looks odd, but it looks odd in an awesome way, and the Laghathti doesn't have a picture.

The Demon Lords are CR 20+, Unique monsters. Though, it'd be cool to have a party consisting of Pale Night, Pazuzu and Dagon. I may have to actually stat them out one day.

Metahuman1
2011-11-25, 02:37 PM
Um, if your still looking for possible ideas,

Erinyes

Lillend

Centaur

Minotaur

,just off the top of my head. Feel free to ignore any of these that don't take your fancy or you deem to be far too much of a pain in the rear end to deal with.

I'm already very happy with my Weretiger and Werebear and eagerly await my Titan when his time does eventually come. :smallsmile:

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 02:58 PM
Um, if your still looking for possible ideas,

Erinyes Could certainly give this a shot.



Lillend
This one too. Could be quite fun.



Centaur
Eh, there's not a whole lot there for me to work with.



Minotaur

I nominate Hyudra's. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10295137&postcount=275)




I'm already very happy with my Weretiger and Werebear and eagerly await my Titan when his time does eventually come. :smallsmile:
Like I said, this will likely be a while before it's done due to it being a 20 level class.

Hyudra
2011-11-25, 03:02 PM
I like how you nominate my minotaur but you don't nominate my centaur. :smalltongue:

(Though I get that my centaur assumes certain cultural aspects, making them archers & whatnot, which may not appeal to everyone)

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 03:04 PM
I like how you nominate my minotaur but you don't nominate my centaur. :smalltongue:

(Though I get that my centaur assumes certain cultural aspects, making them archers & whatnot, which may not appeal to everyone)

The only two monster classes of yours I specifically recall from the original project were Minotaur and Monster of Legend, and they just stood out to me for some reason. I didn't even remember you making the Centaur.

I also recall the Frostwind Virago, and the Ogre Mage, but I think those were after the thread got closed down.

TravelLog
2011-11-25, 04:09 PM
You know what else are fun? Sharns. And Phaerimm. And Inevitables.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 04:13 PM
You know what else are fun? Sharns. And Phaerimm. Not familiar with either of these. Where are they from?
And Inevitables.
Constructs. Eek. :smalleek:

.......


What does it say about me that I'm more afraid of statting up Constructs than I am of statting up demon lords?

mootoall
2011-11-25, 04:15 PM
Not familiar with either of these. Where are they from?
Constructs. Eek. :smalleek:

.......


What does it say about me that I'm more afraid of statting up Constructs than I am of statting up demon lords?

It says that having no Con to add to your HP is a bitch to work around.

TheGeckoKing
2011-11-25, 04:20 PM
You know what else are fun? Sharns. And Phaerimm. And Inevitables.

I have a Sharn Monster Class deep in the recesses of my D&D document folder if you'd like to see it (It's not the best thing in the world).

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 04:23 PM
It says that having no Con to add to your HP is a bitch to work around.

And so are the immunities.

Speaking of that word, Illurien has been going better than expected.

TravelLog
2011-11-25, 04:25 PM
Not familiar with either of these. Where are they from?
Constructs. Eek. :smalleek:

.......


What does it say about me that I'm more afraid of statting up Constructs than I am of statting up demon lords?

Sharn are from the following:
3.0: Monsters of Faerun
3.5: Anauroch: Empire of the Shade

Phaerimm are from the following:
3.0: Monsters of Faerun
3.5: Lost Empires of Faerun

And lol. It says you don't work well with robots.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 04:30 PM
And lol. It says you don't work well with robots.

I blame Blitz Krieger from Sergeant Savage and his Screaming Eagles for that.

mootoall
2011-11-25, 04:30 PM
Woo hoo! I'm excited!

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 04:36 PM
Woo hoo! I'm excited!

I'm glad. :smallsmile:

Need to get Nightmare slightly more well done before working on her further though. The few fire based SLAs I gave it probably don't help that much, and I'm not sure what else to give it that fits and wouldn't squick me out (Like the aforementioned Somnambulance).

Hyudra
2011-11-25, 05:21 PM
Anyhoo, for whoever requested the Centaur, give this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10494644&postcount=1151) a look.

I recognize it assumes a lot about centaurs, though, and it's a little on the technical side as to how some attacks work, so I won't be offended in the least if someone encourages Soft Serve to do one.

Pokonic
2011-11-25, 05:43 PM
What does it say about me that I'm more afraid of statting up Constructs than I am of statting up demon lords?

Its harder to get a good grasp of the capablities of a lump of moving metal than it is to get a good idea of what the elder cosmic god-thing can do?


Also, while I am more of a Pathfinder person myself, I realy like these. The Kulumar, for whatever reason, sound fun to adapt to my game. Alien-esqu slavers of souls? Put it on another planet and call it a soul-eater!


Anyway, considering the currant theme going on, how about a Dragon Horse?

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 05:45 PM
Its harder to get a good grasp of the capablities of a lump of moving metal than it is to get a good idea of what the elder cosmic god-thing can do? Which is awful funny.



Anyway, considering the currant theme going on, how about a Dragon Horse?

*Points to Drakkensteed* :smalltongue:

Dragon horse, Dragon Pegasus, and Dragon Unicorn all in one.

Pokonic
2011-11-25, 05:54 PM
Which is awful funny.

I tend to make them super-powerful or realy weak.
Dont ask my party about the Mercury Elemental I made. The rouge is still having 'nam style flashbacks.


Onthe dragon horse: I was talking about something like this (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/dragonhorse.html). Sky-living mist horses: a sadly little used fantasy archtype.:smalltongue:

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 05:57 PM
I tend to make them super-powerful or realy weak.
Dont ask my party about the Mercury Elemental I made. The rouge is still having 'nam style flashbacks.

*Doesn't ask* :smalltongue:



Onthe dragon horse: I was talking about something like this (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/dragonhorse.html). Sky-living mist horses: a sadly little used fantasy archtype.:smalltongue:

Ah. Well, I'd kind of like to get away from horses for a while. Especially since Nightmare kinda proved that I don't really know what I'm doing with the higher level ones at the moment.

Pokonic
2011-11-25, 06:02 PM
*Doesn't ask*
Your a wise one, ar'tn ya?

Realy,it was the closest thing one could get to a T-180 without it saying "I'll be back." Giving it Assassin levels was a bit much , I think, considering it already poisoned everything it touched.


Ah. Well, I'd kind of like to get away from horses for a while. Especially since Nightmare kinda proved that I don't really know what I'm doing with the higher level ones at the moment.

Oh, okay. Well, how about something a little odd, such as, say, a Muckdweller?

Metahuman1
2011-11-25, 06:03 PM
Anyhoo, for whoever requested the Centaur, give this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10494644&postcount=1151) a look.

I recognize it assumes a lot about centaurs, though, and it's a little on the technical side as to how some attacks work, so I won't be offended in the least if someone encourages Soft Serve to do one.

Huh.

Yeah, I'd seen that a while ago, but it didn't really spring at me. Mostly because of the whole archer theme and some of the cultural assumptions. See, when I think Centaurs, I think heavy hitting Skirmishers who use Lances, Claymores, Scimitars, Bastard Swords, Long Swords, Calvary Sabers, shields, and a mix of weapon'n'board/THF/TWF styles, pending an individual centaurs preferences, and there unique physiology to be extremely hard hitting fast moving hit and run melee combatants.

But that's me.

Also, nice Minotaur. =)


Soft Serve: Awesome on the Erinyes and Lillend, love to see what you do with them. =) also, No worries and no rush on the Titan. I'm certain I'll LOVE what ever you do on it, and I have absolutely no problems waiting till you find the time to give it the attention it needs. :smallbiggrin:

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 06:04 PM
Oh, okay. Well, how about something a little odd, such as, say, a Muckdweller?

Maybe. What are they from/what are they?

Pokonic
2011-11-25, 06:13 PM
There from SK, but they where a bit bland. They are tiny, with 1/4 CR. There main ability was to squirt water to blind things. They are also expert swimmers, to.
There basicly Kolbalds IN WATER, but I had a fun game in which about twenty of them where nesting on a old, abandoned ship the PC's where exploring. Cue slippery, rusting floors and a creative use of using there small size to trip the players. The mage had to get healed for tetnus afterwords. Made them realise that they need to prepare before going in such places. Hence my fondness for the pathetic buggers.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 06:21 PM
Soft Serve: Awesome on the Erinyes and Lillend, love to see what you do with them. =) also, No worries and no rush on the Titan. I'm certain I'll LOVE what ever you do on it, and I have absolutely no problems waiting till you find the time to give it the attention it needs. :smallbiggrin:

Alright. Thanks for bearing with me.


There from SK, but they where a bit bland. They are tiny, with 1/4 CR. There main ability was to squirt water to blind things. They are also expert swimmers, to.
There basicly Kolbalds IN WATER, but I had a fun game in which about twenty of them where nesting on a old, abandoned ship the PC's where exploring. Cue slippery, rusting floors and a creative use of using there small size to trip the players. The mage had to get healed for tetnus afterwords. Made them realise that they need to prepare before going in such places. Hence my fondness for the pathetic buggers.

Aaah. Alright. Well, those would certainly be doable, and at least they're better than giant hamsters. From Space.

Pokonic
2011-11-25, 06:23 PM
Aaah. Alright. Well, those would certainly be doable, and at least they're better than giant hamsters. From Space.

Nope. There more like shelless, clannish squirtles.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 07:21 PM
Nope. There more like shelless, clannish squirtles.

Ah, interesting.

Hmm. I'm just going to work on Illurien regardless of the fact that Nightmare isn't quite perfect right now.

mootoall
2011-11-25, 10:27 PM
Giant space hamsters? You've either been playing Spelljammer or reading Sam and Fuzzy. Either way, glad to hear the Illurien is on her way :smallsmile: In return, I'll give you a critique/review of one of your other monsters later.

Mystic Muse
2011-11-25, 10:40 PM
Giant space hamsters? You've either been playing Spelljammer or reading Sam and Fuzzy. Either way, glad to hear the Illurien is on her way :smallsmile: In return, I'll give you a critique/review of one of your other monsters later.

This Specifically. (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm)

Gah. My motivation tank is at zero and needs a refill. I'll get back to her, but maybe not until Sunday. I've got a 4 Hour D&D session tomorrow, and then getting on to talk to people for a bit, then a nap, and then I don't know what. Maybe a slice of Pumpkin roll.

I'm going to stop rambling now

Pokonic
2011-11-25, 11:12 PM
I always wanted one in my game just for the excuse to tell it to go for the eyes.:smallbiggrin:

Mystic Muse
2011-11-26, 04:02 PM
:smallsigh:

Once I finally finish Illurien, I'm likely going to be taking a break from monster classes.

mootoall
2011-11-26, 04:10 PM
:smallfrown: I'm sorry to hear that!

Mystic Muse
2011-11-26, 04:14 PM
:smallfrown: I'm sorry to hear that!

Eh, it won't be very long. Just a week or two. I need to attend to some things in real life, and I'm kinda tired. This may just be fatigued mumbling.


Also: This is why I don't consistently do high CR classes. They take a long time, and I tend to feel burnt out afterwards.

Pokonic
2011-11-26, 05:44 PM
Once I finally finish Illurien, I'm likely going to be taking a break from monster classes.

Understandable. I like number crunching as much as the next person, but I do dislike the sheer time it takes to come up with a good result. Come back to this soon, however.:smallsmile:

mootoall
2011-11-26, 07:10 PM
Well, before you get back I'll have a critique up :smalltongue:

Elsquanday
2011-11-28, 08:57 PM
Hey guys! I just wanted to post a suggestion for a monster. I mentioned it in the closed thread, but would a Blue Slaad be possible? It's level adjustment is 6 and its in the Monster Manual Core Rulebook III version 3.5. It says they are supposed to be very strong, but also very dextrious which I find interesting... along with the HUGE claws on its hands. It doesnt seem like it gets too many abilities which I read you dont like to make up too many, but their descriptions give some good ideas I think. :smallsmile: Hope you havent lost your love for making monster classes :smallbiggrin:

Mystic Muse
2011-11-28, 09:01 PM
Hey guys! I just wanted to post a suggestion for a monster. I mentioned it in the closed thread, but would a Blue Slaad be possible? It's level adjustment is 6 and its in the Monster Manual Core Rulebook III version 3.5. It says they are supposed to be very strong, but also very dextrious which I find interesting... along with the HUGE claws on its hands. It doesnt seem like it gets too many abilities which I read you dont like to make up too many, but their descriptions give some good ideas I think. :smallsmile: Hope you havent lost your love for making monster classes :smallbiggrin:

No, haven't lost my love. Just been delayed the last few days.

Cousins keeping me up until 5 AM playing Magic: the Gathering isn't great for progress.:smalltongue:

Mystic Muse
2011-12-01, 02:13 AM
Illurien of the Myriad Glimpses (Monster Manual five.)



Description: A dancing array of droplets swirls before you. In the midst of this storm stands a slender but extremely tall female clad in gray robes. She has no facial features other than her vivid blue eyes. With a Graceful Motion, she beckons to you.

Adventures: Illurien will likely only adventure for one reason; Because there is knowledge to be gained, and she wants it. This can mean many things. She could be trying to drain an Archmage of his intelligence to gain his knowledge, she may be looking for lost tomes of ancient lore, or she may simply be looking for items to help in her search.

Alignment: Illurien is unlikely to care what it takes to obtain the knowledge she desires, who she has to drain to get it, or what she has to go through to get her way. For this reason, Illurien is probably Neutral Evil.

Religion: There are rumors that Illurien was created by Vecna. If this is the case, she probably worships Him. Otherwise, she probably worships nothing.

Ecology/Background: A strange creature composed of countless tears and raindrops, Illurien of the Myriad Glimpses is a collector of Information and a keeper of secrets. She believes it is her right to take whatever knowledge she desires from what beings she desires it from. She is largely untrustworthy, and any who seek to gain knowledge from her must appease her in some way, often with a gift of knowledge she does not yet know, or some way to gain said knowledge. Appeasing her is extraordinarly hard for there is little Illurien does not know.

Other Classes: Illurien will work with just about anyone who she thinks can lead her to greater knowledge. If they can't, they either aren't worth her time, or are fodder for her knowledge draining abilities.

Favored Class: Factotum

Class

HD:d8
{TABLE=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +0| +0| +2| Body of Knowledge, Tempest Lash, Home Library,+1 Intelligence
2| +1| +0| +0| +3| Improved body of Knowledge, Detect Magic, Read Magic,
3| +2| +1| +1| +3| Fast Healing, Storm of Visions, Knowing Blade, +1 Intelligence
4| +3| +1| +1| +4| Infinite Knowledge, Identify, Detect Thoughts, Locate Object, +1 Charisma
5| +3| +1| +1| +4| Knowledge absorption, Spell Resistance, +1 Intelligence
6| +4| +2| +2| +5| Mindsight, Conundrum, Tongues, Arcane Sight
7| +5| +2| +2| +5| Greater Body of Knowledge, Flight, +1 Intelligence
8| +6| +2| +2| +6| Pointed Knowledge, Scrying, Locate Creature, +1 Charisma
9| +6| +3| +3| +6| Knowledge Devotion, Damage Reduction, Aptitude Larceny, +1 Intelligence
10| +7| +3| +3| +7|Large size, Contact Other Plane, Telepathic Bond
11| +8| +3| +3| +7| Blindsight, Perfect Body of Knowledge, +1 Intelligence
12| +9| +4| +4| +8| Titanium Mind, Analyze Dweomer, Legend lore, +1 Charisma
13| +9| +4| +4| +8| Cloud of Foresight, Body of Tears, +1 Intelligence,
14| +10| +4| +4| +9| Freedom of Movement, Plane Shift, Vision
15| +11| +5| +5| +9| Perfected Aptitude Larceny, Authenaum Nefarious, Induced Amnesia +1 Intelligence, +1 Charisma

[/TABLE]
6+Int modifier Skills per level. Class skills: Appraise, Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (All skills, taken individually), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Use Magic Device.

Proficiencies: Illurien isn't proficient with any weapons or armor except for Tempest Lash.

Body of Knowledge (Ex): Illurien loses all other racial traits and gains Darkvision 60 feet, a base move speed of 30 feet, and she gains the tempest lash ability. She is incapable of speaking but has telepathy out to 40 feet, and the range increases by an extra 10 feet per HD.

Illurien is treated as an outsider in all respects (For the purposes of spells, qualifying for templates or prestige classes, ETC.) but does not gain any of the traditional racial traits other than those explicitly mentioned.

She also has a Natural Armor bonus equal to her Constitution modifier.

Lastly, she has electricity resistance equal to her HD

Tempest lash (Ex): Illurien can use tempest lash as a standard action. The damage is equal to 1d6+ her strength modifier and she gets iterative attacks with the ability based on her BAB. This ability is treated as a natural weapon and scales with size.

Home Library: This library is located in the Outlands but can be reached by plane shift. the library can be expanded with extra rooms to help Illurien in her search for knowledge and she gains an extra room at 4 HD, and every 4 HD after that. In addition, the library grants a +1 bonus to all knowledge checks made within it per 2 HD. Illurien can reach her library through her own plane shift SLA.

Choosable rooms


Divination room: This room contains the normal material for a scrying spell and extra materials to make sure divination spells succeed. The room grants a +1 bonus to checks related to divination spells for each 4 HD Illurien has. In addition, at 10th level, Illurien can make a caster level check against the caster level of an effect that would prevent her divination used in this room from working. Her caster level is equal to her hit dice for this purpose.

Item creation room: This room grants 1 item creation feat. At 10th level, Illurien doesn't need to know the spells required for an item, as long as she meets the required caster level. Her caster level is equal to her hit dice.
Additionally, if she is able to craft magic weapons, she can enchant her tempest lash.
Special: This option can be taken multiple times, granting another item creation feat each time.

Rest/Sustenance room:This room acts almost as a ring of sustenance for anyone within. The room expands to fit the size of her allies as needed, and any who take a short rest (Five minutes or so) in the room are treated as having had enough food and water to sustain them throughout the day. Party members need sleep or trance for only 2 hours while within the room to get the benefits of a full night's sleep.

Healing Room: All Healing spells used in this room have their effects treated as if the empower metamagic were used on them.

Special This room can be taken up to 4 times. If taken a second time, all healing spells are maximized. If taken a third time, all healing spells are treated as empower and maximized. If Chosen a fourth time, the effects of the spells are maximized and then doubled.

Expanded Library: Illurien's bonus on Knowledge checks within her library becomes equal to her Total Hit dice.

Ability Boost (Ex): At 1st level, and every subsequent odd level, Illurien gains a +1 bonus to intelligence for a total of +8 at level 15. At 4th, 8th, 12th and 15th level, her Charisma increases by +1 for a total of a +4 bonus to her Charisma score at 15th level.

Improved Body of Knowledge: At second level Illurien gains a bonus on saves against poison, paralysis, and disease equal to her HD. In addition, she simply needs to trance instead of sleep.

SLAs (Su): At 2nd level, Illurien can use Detect Magic and Read Magic as SLAs at-will.

At 4th level, Illurien can use Identify, detect thoughts and locate Object as SLAs 1/day per 2 HD

At 6th level, Illurien can use Arcane Sight and Tongues as SLAs 1/day per 3 HD. Once/if “Pointed Knowledge” is gained, Tongues is replaced with Clairaudience/Clairvoyance which is usable at the same frequency.

At 8th level, Illurien can use Scrying and Locate Creature as SLAs 1/day per 4 HD

At 16 HD, Scrying becomes Scrying Greater.

At 10th level, Illurien can use Contact other Plane and Telepathic Bond as SLAs 1/day per 5 HD

At 12th level, Illurien can use Analyze Dweomer and Legend Lore as SLAs 1/day per 6 HD

At 14th level, Illurien can use Plane Shift and Greater Arcane Sight as SLAs 1/day per 7 HD

Infinite Knowledge (Ex): At 4th level, Illurien can now use all that knowledge she's gained to good use. A number of times per day equal to her intelligence modifier (minimum of 1), she may expend a move action to make a knowledge check against whatever she may be facing: local for monstrous humanoids, arcane for magical beasts and dragons, Architecture/Engineering for constructs, dungeoneering for aberrations & oozes, the planes for outsiders & elementals, nature for animals & fey, nobility & royalty for humanoids, and geography for giants. The DC of this knowledge check is 15. If she succeeds, all allies within 30 feet gain a +1 bonus to AC against the creature's attacks (or creatures, if there are multiple creatures of the same race). This bonus increases by an additional 1 for every 10 points Illurien succeeds by.
Starting at 7 HD, Illurien may instead grant a +1 bonus to saves against the creature's abilities, plus an additional 1 for every 10 points Illurien succeeds by.
Starting at 10 HD, Illurien may instead grant +1d6 damage to attacks against the creature, plus an additional 1d6 for every 10 points Illurien succeeds by.
Starting at 13 HD, Illurien may instead grant a +1 bonus to Attack against the creature, plus an additional 1 for every 10 points she succeeds by.
Starting at 16 HD, Illurien may instead grant a +1 bonus to DCs of any ability used against the creature, plus an additional 1 for every 10 points she succeeds by.

Storm of visions (Su):The watery droplets that surround Illurien are the collected fragments of the knowledge she has accumulated. At 4th level, at the end of Each of Illurien's turns each enemy within 30 feet of her is dazzled for one round.

At 9 HD, all enemies within 40 feet of Illurien at the end of each of her turns are both Dazzled and Sickened.

At 14 HD, Each enemy within 50 feet of Illurien at the end of each of her turns becomes Dazzled, Sickened, and Entangled, and the effects of Storm of Vision bypasses any sort of immunity to the effects.

At 19 HD, each enemy within 60 feet of Illurien at the end of each of her turns becomes dazzled, sickened, entangled, and is knocked prone.

Knowledge absorption (Su): At 5th level, each hit with her Tempest Lash deals 1 intelligence damage, and grants Illurien 5 temporary hit points per point of intelligence drained.

At 10 HD, the amount of intelligence damage increases to 2 per hit.

At 15 HD, the amount of intelligence damage increases to 3 per hit.

At 20 HD, the amount of intelligence damage increases to 4 per hit.

Spell Resistance (Ex): At fifth level, Illurien gains Spell Resistance equal to her HD+11

Knowing Blade (Su): At fifth level, Illurien gains another special ability. Using her Knowing Blade precludes her from using her tempest lash in the same round. As a Standard action, Illurien may make a touch attack against one monster. If successful, the attack deals damage equal to three times Her HD. This increases again every 5 HD afterwards becoming Four times her HD at 10 HD, Five times her HD at 15, ETC.

This is damage cannot be reduced in any way.

Mindsight (Su): At 6th level, Illurien can detect and pinpoint beings that are not mindless (anything with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher) within range of her telepathy. This works much like blindsense - she knows what square each thinking being is in, but does not see the being, and the being still has total concealment unless Illurien can see it by some other means.
Illurien also perceives several observable characteristics about each being detected with mindsight, including the being's type and Intelligence score. Illurien need not take any additional or special actions to gain this information; it is as obvious to mindsight as the being's race and clothing would be to eyesight

Conundrum (Su): At 6th level, as a standard action, Illurien can choose a number of enemies equal to Half her HD within a range of 5 feet per HD. These enemies must make a will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) or have their combat abilities severely hampered. If affected, the number of iterative attacks an enemy can make in a full round action is reduced by 1. If this would reduce an enemy's number of attacks to zero, they can't attack at all. Additionally, if the enemy is capable of casting spells, that spell takes one action greater to cast than it normally would. Swift actions take move actions, move actions take standard actions, and Standard actions take full round actions. A spell cannot take longer than a full round action when affected in this way.

At 16 HD, enemies get two less attacks on iterative attacks, and spells take two actions greater than they normally would.

Greater body of knowledge(Ex): At 7th level, Illurien only needs to trance for 4 hours, is immune to poison and disease and gains a bonus on saves against the fatigue and exhausted conditions equal to her HD. In addition, she can take 10 on knowledge checks even in a threatening situation.

Flight (Su): At 7th level, Illurien can fly at a speed of 10 feet per HD with average Maneuverability.

At 15 HD, her maneuverability improves to Good.

At 20 HD, her Maneuverability improves to Perfect.

Pointed Knowledge (Ex): At 8th Level, Illurien knows all languages. All of them.

Knowledge devotion (Ex): At 9th level Illurien gains the benefits of Infinite knowledge as well.

Damage Reduction (Ex): At level 9, Illurien Gains DR/Good equal to half her HD.

Aptitude Larceny (Su): At 9th level, Illurien's tempest Lash improves still further. Every time she hits an enemy with her Tempest Lash, she can choose one skill that enemy has ranks in. For the next hour, she is treated as having half her HD in skill ranks (Or additional) ranks, for that skill.

At level 15, she can instead choose a class feature with the following restrictions.
1. She can't choose any feature that requires something she lacks. As an example, she cannot gain a breath weapon as she does not have a mouth, and she cannot gain rake as she does not have claws.
2. She cannot gain any spellcasting, manifesting, binding, Shadow Magic, invocations, True naming, Maneuvers or incarnum abilities.
3. She cannot choose improved versions of features before choosing the first versions of those features. She cannot gain improved evasion without first choosing (Or having) evasion.

These benefits also last for one hour.

Growth (Ex): At level 10, Illurien may grow a size category (ordinarily to Large size). Her AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills Change accordingly, but she doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Blindsight (Su): At level 11, Illurien gains the Blindsight ability. The range of this ability is half her telepathy range.

Perfected body of knowledge (Ex): At 11th level, Illurien no longer needs to trance, is immune to effects that would make her fall asleep, and is immune to the fatigued and exhausted conditions.

Titanium Mind (Ex): At 12th level, Illurien becomes immune to any penalty to her mental faculties. Her mental ability scores cannot be drained, damaged, or receive penalties from any source.

Cloud of Foresight (Su): At 13th level, Illurien adds her Intelligence modifier as a deflection bonus to her AC.

Body of Tears (Ex): Despite being made of liquid, Illurien doesn't conduct electricity. At 13th level, Illurien becomes immune to Electricity damage.

Freedom of Movement (Su): At 14th level, Illurien benefits from a constant Freedom of Movement effect.

Authenaum Nefarious: At 15th level, Illurien's library has become the legendary Authenaum Nefarious. those within the library and their equipment become immune to all forms of divination, as if they did not exist. This place cannot be entered by anyone Illurien does not allow within, and all attempts to teleport into the location automatically fail unless she says otherwise.

In addition, any time Illurien would die, she rejuvenates within her library two days later. This does not work when she dies from abilities that have an explicitly defined way the being in question has to be brought back (I.E. Miracle, Wish, limited wish, ETC.).

Induced Amnesia (Su): At 15th level, Illurien can make enemies forget what they once knew. As a standard action she may choose one enemy within 10 feet per HD. That enemy must make a will save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier). If the enemy fails, whatever action they took on their last turn, be it casting a spell, making a full attack, total defense, charging, ETC. Cannot be repeated on their next turn, or she can make it so that whatever action they take on their next turn cannot be repeated.


comments:

It doesn't say where her flight originates, and she doesn't have wings, so I assumed it was levitation.

The “Know about the creature's age, date of birth, important events in their lives, ETC.” thing was definitely a DM only tool, so I left that out of pointed Knowledge.

I changed around cloud of foresight because I'm trying to reduce the amount of rolling required for this class. Same thing for Storm of visions.

Knowledge devotion and Mindsight are both feats that are going to be taken ASAP, and they made sense with her, so I just gave her both of the abilities as class features. Blindsight is just a supplement to her mindsight ability.

I gave her several abilities to make her more interesting in combat, which were created with the help of Hyudra.. Thanks again.

Induced Amnesia could probably be better.
I'm not sure if the benefits from Aptitude Larceny last long enough.

I figure knowing Blade scales well enough that it will be usable in situations her Tempest lash isn't.

She could use more chooseable rooms

Changelog
Favored Class changed from Archivist to Factotum

Clarified what she keeps about the outsider type.

Changed the growth to "May"

Standardized Knowledge skill.

Mystic Muse
2011-12-01, 03:07 AM
Alright. Since I think it's fairly relevant, and warrants its own post I'm taking a week or two long break from making monster classes. After that I'll start work on...something. Not quite sure what right now. Whatever tickles my fancy really.

mootoall
2011-12-05, 11:22 PM
Illurien: SQUEEEEEEEEEE. I'll have a more thorough analysis up at some point (promise!) but for now, I just wanna say I'm very happy :smallsmile:

TravelLog
2011-12-05, 11:40 PM
Love it, except for the fact that for a creature meant to be an Archivist in goes 15 levels with no casting whatsoever...:smallfrown:

Maybe give it 1/2 Archivist casting? At the cost of other reductions as an option?

Mystic Muse
2011-12-05, 11:48 PM
Love it, except for the fact that for a creature meant to be an Archivist in goes 15 levels with no casting whatsoever...:smallfrown: This is the main problem I have with her. I can't think of any class she could gain levels in that would be useful and would fit her flavor. By the time one would finish the Illurien class, there's not really anything good she can get within those last five levels short of dips.

This is of course assuming a maximum level of 20, which is no guarantee.

Would "Favored Class: Any" work for her?



Maybe give it 1/2 Archivist casting? At the cost of other reductions as an option?

Half casting would be a pain to do properly. Casting in general is a pain to do properly.

Hyudra
2011-12-06, 12:15 AM
Favored classes are kinda silly to begin with. I haven't had a game in years that actually used them. They really serve, at the end of the day, to indicate what class you'd go into from Illurien (or whatever).

Maybe factotum, instead?

Mystic Muse
2011-12-06, 12:20 AM
Favored classes are kinda silly to begin with. I haven't had a game in years that actually used them. They really serve, at the end of the day, to indicate what class you'd go into from Illurien (or whatever). I agree, but not every DM does, and if I made all monster classes with the rules I prefer as a DM, I suspect a lot of the interest in my classes would be lost fast.



Maybe factotum, instead?

Factotum does seem like it would work better. I'll change it to that.

TravelLog
2011-12-06, 12:41 AM
My main problem is that because it doesn't gain casting or offensive combat features, it mostly gains utility. The problem is it'd be better to play almost anything else for those 15 levels, or maybe take Illurien for a few levels to qualify for some class (I'd take usually around 5-7 levels, 7 if I wanted flight). Otherwise I'd just use it for a 1 level dip to get Outsider status and an NA boost...

Mystic Muse
2011-12-06, 01:07 AM
My main problem is that because it doesn't gain casting or offensive combat features, it mostly gains utility. Knowing Blade, Knowledge absorption, Knowledge devotion, and Induced Amnesia all work as offensive abilities. Though, I admit she could use some ranged ones as well. Also, there's nothing wrong with utility. Isn't that pretty much the Rogue's job description?
The problem is it'd be better to play almost anything else for those 15 levels, or maybe take Illurien for a few levels to qualify for some class (I'd take usually around 5-7 levels, 7 if I wanted flight). Otherwise I'd just use it for a 1 level dip to get Outsider status and an NA boost...

How would it be better to play almost anything else for those 15 levels? And how does the outsider type help you? Unless there's something that specifically requires the outsider type to qualify for, it doesn't strike me as that helpful and it would actually be detrimental in some cases.

Also, can you please explain why you would only take 5-7 levels? It'll help me address problems better if you go into a bit more detail about what's wrong, or what I could do to make higher levels more attractive.

Edit: Just FYI, since I'm going to be making a monster class for the "From Folklore" contest, I'll probably only be releasing one monster this month, and it's one I specifically had in mind for this month. It wasn't one that was requested.

Mystic Muse
2012-01-01, 03:07 AM
Half-dragon/Dragonkin/Dragonborn/ETC. (Various sources. They're all the same darn monster)



Details and Description: Half-dragons can look like anything from the above picture to a simple humanoid with slightly sharper teeth, nails made out of a harder material than the normal keratin humans have, a tail and draconic wings. Even the Tails and wings vary. A half dragon could have large majestic wings, or small worn wings with holes in them. A Half-dragon's tail could be large and heavy like an Apatosaurus, or it could be small and thin, almost like a whip.

Half-dragons nearly always inherit a few things from their dragon parents. There are exceptions, but Half-dragons have a tendency towards the following.

Half-dragons tend to enjoy meats, especially red meat, and they like it rare. It is not unheard of for half-dragons to eat completely raw meat

Half-dragons have a tendency to hoard anything they think is valuable, and are particularly entranced by the preferred treasure of their patron dragon

Half-dragons tend to have much inhibitions than their non-half dragon brethren.

Adventures: The adventures a Half-dragon will embark on are as wide and varied as that of their dragon parents. Like most dragons, they have a tendency to hoard gold and such, and will

Alignment: Half-dragons tend towards the alignment of their parent dragons, though this is not something one can rely on. Half-dragons are not color coded for your convenience.

Ecology/Background: Your dad misheard. The village elder said to slay the dragon, not lay the dragon.

Other Classes: Half-dragons, as a rule, do not get along well with classes who prefer to give gold away, and they tend to not understand hermetic classes who abandon gold and luxuries. Because of this, they will tend to avoid classes like the Fist of the Forest or similar Hermetic classes.

Being related to dragons, Half-dragons have a particular love for arcane magic of all sorts, and will generally prefer to travel with at least one arcane spellcaster.

Pre-requisites: Any living corporeal creature. Must have one parent as a dragon, or partake in a special ritual (If you're trying to be a dragonborn or similar).
Class

HD: d12
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +1| +2| +0| +2| Half-dragon body, Dragon Heritage

[/table]

4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Appraise, Concentration, climb, Disguise, Jump, spot, listen, search, appraise, bluff, intimidate, Knowledge(all skills, taken individually), Use Magic Device.

proficiencies: A Half-dragon is proficient with all simple weapons and all light armor.


Half-Dragon Body (Ex): The Half-Dragon retains all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, a bite attack for 1d8+strength modifier damage, and a base land speed of 30 feet. She has wings, but they do not allow them to fly yet, instead granting them a +10 bonus on jump checks.

Additionally, the Half-dragon gains a Natural armor bonus equal to its Constitution modifier.

If the Half-dragon does not already have it, it gains low-light vision.

For the purposes of spells or effects that would effect them, Half-dragons are treated as true dragons and members of their original type/Race. The Half-dragon does not gain Draconic age categories and cannot qualify for things like Loredrake. The Half-dragon does not take penalties to its physical ability scores due to age, but otherwise ages according to its original race.

Dragon Heritage (Varies):

Breath Weapon (Su): At 3 HD, the Half-dragon gains a breath weapon. The breath weapon can be a 70 foot line, with the range increasing 10 feet per HD, or a 35 foot cone with the range increasing 5 feet per HD. The damage the breath weapon deals is the same type of damage their patron dragon deals. If their patron does not have a weapon that deals energy damage (Fire, Cold, Electricity, acid or Sonic) the half-dragon does not gain a breath weapon.

The breath weapon deals 1d6 Damage of the appropriate type per 2 HD.

If the half-dragon is a fang dragon, they instead have a draining bite, which deals damage as follows.

1d4 points of Constitution damage
4 HD: 1d6 points of Constitution damage
6 HD: 1d8 points of Constitution damage
8 HD: 1d10 points of Constitution damage
10 HD: 1d12 points of constitution damage
12 HD: 2d6 points of constitution damage
14 HD: 2d8 points of constitution damage
16 HD: 2d10 points of Constitution damage
18 HD: The constitution damage changes to constitution Drain and the damage increases to 2d12
20 HD: 4d6 Constitution drain. The damage does not increase past this point.

Glide (Ex): At 3 HD The half-dragon can use its wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Half-dragons glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if a half-dragon's maneuverability improves, it can't hover while gliding. A half-dragon can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.

If a half-dragon becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, its wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them. The Half-dragon descends slowly in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter the actual distance of the fall.

Claws (Ex): At 6 HD, the Half-Dragon gains 2 secondary claw attacks dealing 1d4+Strength modifier damage each.

Growth (Ex): At 6 HD the Half-Dragon may grow an additional size category. Their AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but they don't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Tail Slap (Ex): At 9 HD, the Half-dragon gains a secondary tail slap attack, dealing 1d6+1 and 1/2 strength modifier damage. Additionally, their tail is prehensile and functions as an extra hand.

Darkvision (Ex): Assuming the Half-dragon does not already have it, at 9 HD it gains dark-vision out to 90 feet.

At 15 HD this becomes 180 feet.

Wing attacks (Ex): At 12 HD, the Half-dragon gains 2 wing attacks as secondary natural attacks for 1d4+Strength Modifier damage each.

Flight (Ex): At 12 HD, the half dragon becomes capable of flying at a speed of 10 feet per HD with average maneuverability.

Immunities (Ex): At 15 HD, the Half-dragon becomes immune to the same energy types its Parent dragon is immune to, Magical Sleep effects, and Paralysis.

Blindsense (Ex): At 15 HD, the Half-dragon gains the Blindsense extraordinary ability out to 60 feet.

Perfect Breath Weapon (Su): At 18 HD, the Half-dragon's breath weapon bypasses all immunities and resistances.

Hoard (Su): At 18 HD, the Half-dragon gains the Hoard ability Many wonder at the reason for a dragon's hoard. Many suspects it's because dragons are greedy, but what about the good ones? While good is still susceptible to greed, it seems suspicious that all dragons tend to have hoards, regardless of type.

The truth is, a dragon draws power from its hoard. Just as a knight become more powerful with a +5 sword than the rusted pitted one he found in a shed out back, dragons become more powerful with the more wealth they accumulate. It can be used in many ways depending on the type of item it is.

Gold: Gold can be used to gain the benefits of any item equal to half the amount put towards it. So, it would cost 50,000 GP to gain the benefits of a ring of evasion instead of 25,000. However, the benefit is that the gold can be un-attuned from specific benefits, go back to the hoard's total, and be re-attuned to a new benefit of some sort. The benefits of this are treated as if the dragon were actually wearing the item, so you can't attune to a piece of armor in your hoard, actually be wearing armor, and gain the benefits of both for example. Additionally, this cannot be used to gain expendable items such as wands or scrolls.
Weapons: The Dragon can gain the benefits of weapons in its hoard. With each weapon, the dragon chooses one of its own natural weapons, or a pair of natural weapons (Such as claws or wings) the natural weapon gains the benefits of the manufactured weapon for as long as the dragon is attuned to it. This includes the benefits of any material the weapon is made out of, such as adamantine.
Armor: A dragon attuned to a piece of armor is treated as if it were wearing the armor. The armor does not have to be the same size as the dragon.
clothing: Items such as necklaces, rings, boots and such are treated as if the dragon were wearing them. Most dragons prefer not to wear them, since a dragon with a crown and a cape looks silly.

Un-attuning an item is a free action. Attuning to items in your hoard can only be done during rest, and takes 8 hours.

However, despite being the Dragon's greatest strength, the hoard is also its greatest weakness. A dragon must designate specific spots as belong to its hoard, and if the items are taken out of the hoard, the dragon no longer has the benefits of the item. This is the reason why many dragons guard their hoards with their very lives, or set up dozens of traps for interlopers.

There are other benefits to attuning to an item instead of simply wearing it of course. Attuned items cannot be sundered, except by finding that item in the hoard and sundering it. While the benefits from attunement go away in an antimagic field, they come back once the dragon has left said field. While Disjunction will break the attunement on items, it will not actually destroy the items the dragon is attuned to, and the dragon can re-attune itself to the items during its next 8 hour rest.

Additionally, the previous items can be attuned to mundane items it has. An adamantine Greatsword can be attuned to an adamantine warhammer, as long as there are no conflicting enhancements, and the warhammer will gain the benefits of the enhancements, and any special materials the weapon is made out of. This also applies to other mundane items. You cannot have the same weapon attuned to a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon at the same time.

Lastly, hoards cannot be chosen willy nilly. Designating an area as your hoard requires you to spend 8 hours at the place to be considered your hoard. Choosing a place as your hoard is an ancient magic and cannot be disturbed, or it has to be redone. A player is allowed to choose to have a specific spot as their hoard before the campaign begins.

comments I wanted to combine a bunch of different things and just have that be the standard. Off the top of my head, I can think of 3 different “Half-dragon” races that are barely different from one another, other than fluff, which is nearly always up to the player anyway. Naturally, this wouldn't be justified for actual dragons, or much of anything else, but a lot of the time, they're all the same darn monster. This way, you can be a half-dragon, a dragonkin, a dragonborn, or whatever the heck it is you want to be, and get most of the benefits while only “Losing” one level. Casters still get their 9th level spells, and every other class gets pretty much everything but their capstone. I tried to make it attractive to enter at first level to everyone. I know the only one level thing isn't standard, but since Half-dragons should be able to be sorcerers and such without losing a large amount of levels to something that doesn't help, and a lot of features aren't fair within 3 levels anyway, I thought I should spread them across the career.

I am slightly worried I overloaded it, but I think the abilities are spread far enough apart that it won't be too much trouble

changelog Changed the growth to "May"

Standardized its knowledge skill.

Added a bite option for half fang dragons.

Kenneth
2012-01-23, 09:22 PM
Succubus



I like this a lot. its very balanced and you got sme cool names for abilities,


though givne Cha+1 seems a bit odd as every other bonus given int eh game si even to increase one's modifier by 1..

i mean don't succubi have like a 24+ Cha to begin with.. i think a Cha+2 would not be overpowering in the least. it makes up for her d6 HP and the lakc of anything but racial abilites for 7 levels I think.

there I commented on one of your creations.. can i have another cookie/cupcake?:smalltongue:

Metahuman1
2012-01-23, 11:45 PM
+16 but anyway. I'm pretty sure I remember bouncing some ideas off Soft Serve for the Succubus some time ago.


I'm still waiting to see what becomes of the Enrayis, Lillend and Titan myself. =)

Mystic Muse
2012-01-24, 12:18 AM
+16 but anyway. I'm pretty sure I remember bouncing some ideas off Soft Serve for the Succubus some time ago.


I'm still waiting to see what becomes of the Enrayis, Lillend and Titan myself. =)

I'm working on the Blue Slaad right now, just FYI.

And Metahuman, I am so sorry about the game. I have no idea what happened. I got no notification that anything got posted in the OOC thread until a couple days ago, and I was kinda busy attending to things in real life. My family seemed intent on going out a lot, I had to do more chores around the house than usual, I had school, I still have a girlfriend (I'm not sure how but I do), I got prepared for people coming over several times that didn't end up coming over for one (Good) reason or another.

It was very busy, and I'm still busy, and I am so sorry if it's dead.:smallfrown:



I like this a lot. its very balanced and you got sme cool names for abilities, Thank you.



though givne Cha+1 seems a bit odd as every other bonus given int eh game si even to increase one's modifier by 1.. It's +1 every level except first for a total of +6. I think that counts as enough.


i mean don't succubi have like a 24+ Cha to begin with.. i think a Cha+2 would not be overpowering in the least. it makes up for her d6 HP and the lakc of anything but racial abilites for 7 levels I think.
I'm really iffy about giving it +12 Charisma. That just seems rather extreme.



there I commented on one of your creations.. can i have another cookie/cupcake?:smalltongue:
*Gives you a platter of cookies.

So, some news.

1. I won't be attending to the Obyriths any time soon. This is become they're essentially lovecraftian monstrosities (Other than Pazuzu oddly) and people more familiar with the lovecraft mythos pointed out something very important to me.

It's very hard to retain the flavor of being a Lovecraftian monstrosity, and still having it be fair.

Also, the only low CR ones I can find are an Octopus like thing which I have absolutely no experience with, and one whose entire shtick it breeding more of itself. The latter doesn't sound like it'd be remotely interesting to play.

2. Getting another (Yes, another, don't pelt me with rocks) name change. Not sure to what quite yet, you'll know when the mods make it.

3. I'm going to try and get more monsters out next month. It's just the Slaad this month, but I've had a few on standby and I'm going to be working on a few with a certain theme next month. For example, I think I'm going to try and release a Yugoloth, a Tanaa'ri, and a Baatezu next month. Not guaranteeing the Erinyes, but they're definitely on the list.

4. I love my comfy green leather chair. I know that's not related to monster classes, but it needed to be said.

Also, I didn't get much sleep last night (Thunder/rainstorm= me being stressed and paranoid, which is not conducive to sleep) so I'm going to bed very soon.

Mystic Muse
2012-01-31, 02:14 AM
Blue Slaad (Monster Manual 1)




Description and Details: This hulking creature looks like a strapping blue-skinned humanoid toad, as big as an ogre, with almost no neck and a massive, flat head. It is bipedal, with clawed hands and feet. It has wicked-looking, bony hooks on the backs of its hands.

A blue slaad is about 10 feet tall and very broad. It weighs about 1,000 pounds. As its name suggests, a blue slaad is mostly blue,
darker along the back, and paler around the belly.

Adventures: Blue slaadi gather to wage horrific battles against other societies and their own. They are bullies that value only strength and power.

Alignment: Slaadi are almost always a Chaotic Alignment.

Ecology/Background: Blue Slaadi are the result of Red Slaadi implanting eggs into a humanoid host. The birth of a Blue Slaadi always kills its host as it eats its way out.

Religion: None.

Other Classes: Blue Slaadi Ironically work well with just about anything. The only exceptions are classes specifically interested in law, and any inevitables. Blue Slaadi work especially well with other Blue Slaadi.

Languages: Blue Slaadi only speak the language Slaad. They get bonus languages for each point of intelligence bonus as per normal.

Favored Class: Barbarian

Class
HD: d10
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1| +0| +2| +2 |+0| Blue Slaad Body, Improved unarmed Strike, Slaad Fever, +1 Strength
2| +1| +2| +2| +0| Resistances, Improved Grapple, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
3| +2| +3| +3| +1| Amphibious, Shot-put +1 Strength
4| +3| +3| +3| +1| Climb Speed, Projectile Ally, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
5| +3| +4| +4| +1| Camouflage, Improved Shot-put, Projectile Enemy, +1 Strength
6| +4| +5| +5| +2| Growth, Improved Grab, Summon Slaad, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
7| +5| +5| +5| +2| One Grapple fits all, Multi-tasking, +1 Strength
8| +6| +6| +6| +2| Immunity to Sonic Damage, Can Touch This, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
[/table]
2 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot

Proficiencies: Blue Slaadi are not proficient with any armor, or any weapons besides their own natural weapons.

Blue Slaad Body: At first level the Blue Slaad loses all other racial features and gains the Following. It is a medium sized aberration with a bite attack dealing 1d6+Strength modifier damage, and two secondary Claw attacks for 1d4+Strength modifier damage, and Darkvision out to 60 feet. Lastly, it has a base land speed of 30 feet.

He also gains a Natural armor bonus equal to his Strength Modifier.

At 11 HD, he instead has 4 secondary natural claw attacks.

Improved Unarmed Strike: At First level, the Blue Slaad gains Improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat.

Slaad Fever (Su): Slaadi often transmit this disease, but it's not a guarantee. Particularly weak Blue Slaadi tend to avoid doing so, especially against creatures they expect to meet again, due to the tendency of the Slaadi Produced to have a “Might Makes Right” Attitude.

Slaad Fever is a disease (Fort Save DC 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier) with an incubation period of 1 day. The disease only afflicts humanoids, and it deals 1d4 Charisma damage per day.

At 3 HD, it deals 1d6 Charisma damage per day.

At 6 HD it deals 1d8 Charisma damage per day.

At 9 HD it deals 1d10 Charisma damage per day.

At 12 HD it deals 2d6 Charisma damage per day.

At 15 HD it deals 2d8 Charisma Damage per day.

At 18 HD it deals 3d6 Charisma Damage per day.

If a humanoid has its Charisma reduced to zero due to this disease, it immediately dies and its body is turned into a red Slaad, or a green slaad if it was an Arcane Caster. Nothing is left of the previous humanoid. No personality traits, no memories, no anything.

Ability Boosts: The Blue Slaad gains a +1 Bonus to Strength at every level and a +1 bonus to Constitution at every even level for a total boost of +8 Strength and +4 Constitution at 8th level.

Resistances (Ex): At second level, the Blue Slaad Gains Resistance to Fire and Cold or Electricity and Acid equal to its HD.

At 10 HD this is twice its HD instead.

At 20 HD, this is immunity.

Improved Grapple; At second level, the Blue Slaad gains improved grapple as a bonus feat regardless of whether it meets the pre-requisites or not.

Amphibious (Ex): At Third level, the Blue Slaad becomes Amphibious, capable of breathing in water as well as on land.

Shot-put (Ex): At third level, you can hurl rocks and similar materials weighing 40 to 50 pounds with a range increment of 15 feet. The objects deal 2d6 points of damage plus your Strength modifier. Objects have a maximum range of five range increments. You are considered proficient with these objects.

This is treated as the Rock Hurling feat for all purposes.

Adhesive Skin (Ex): A Blue Slaad's skin is remarkably sticky and slimy. At Fourth Level, they've trained this ability to be able to climb walls. They gain a Climb speed equal to their base land speed.

Camouflage (Ex): At Fifth level, the Slaadi gains a bonus on Hide checks equal to ½ its HD, and it takes no penalty to Move Silently checks from Growing Size Categories.


Improved Shot-put (Ex): At fifth level, The range for the Shot-put ability is instead 80 feet, and you gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls using small objects.

Projectile Ally (Ex): At fifth level you can pick up an ally at least one size category smaller than you and throw him toward a specific square up to five range increments away. It takes a move action to pick up an ally and a standard action to throw that ally. You make a ranged touch attack (against AC 5) to throw the ally to the chosen square. If the touch attack hits, the ally lands in the square you designate. If the touch attack is a miss, randomly determine in which square the ally lands, using the Missing with a Thrown Weapon diagram on page 158 of the Player's Handbook. If the ally lands in a square that is occupied, she lands prone in that square. in any case, the ally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity for this movement.
Allies one size category smaller than you have a range increment of 20 feet, while allies two size categories or more smaller than you have a range increment of 40 feet.

This is treated as the Fling Ally feat for all purposes.

Projectile Enemy (Ex): When you're grappling a foe, you can fling that foe away from you with a successful grapple check. Flinging the enemy requires a standard action. For every 5 points by which your grapple check beats your foe's grapple check or Escape Artist check, you can throw that foe 10 feet. Your foe lands prone in the square you designate. You can't throw a foe farther than you could throw an ally (as described in the Fling Ally feat). You must be strong enough to lift an enemy over your head (the enemy's weight cannot exceed your character's maximum load) to throw him. See page 162 of the Player's Handbook for more information on carrying capacity and maximum load.
The enemy does not provoke attacks of opportunity for this movement.

This is treated as the fling enemy feat for all purposes.



Growth (Ex): At 6th level, the Blue Slaad may grow another size category (ordinarily to Large size).
At 11 HD it may grow another size category (ordinarily to Huge size.)

Its AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but it doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Improved Grab (Ex): At 6th level, the Blue Slaad gains the Improved Grab extraordinary ability.

Summon Slaad (Su): At 6th level, if another Slaad is within 25 feet per HD, the Blue Slaad can summon it to an adjacent square. The Target must be willing in order for it to be summoned in this way.

One Grapple Fits all (Ex:) Blue Slaadi are remarkably good at sticking to things that don't want to be stuck to. At seventh level, the Blue Slaad can grapple an enemy of any size instead of being limited to enemies two size categories larger than it.

Multi-tasking (Ex): At 7th level, while Grappling, the Blue Slaad

Retains its Dexterity Modifier to AC
Continues to threaten Squares
Can attack enemies besides the one it is grappling

This does not allow the Blue Slaad to Grapple multiple enemies.

Immunity to Sonic Damage (Ex): At 8th level, the Blue Slaad becomes immune to Sonic damage.

Can Touch this (Ex): At 8th level, the Blue Slaad ignores Immunity to being grappled from any source, instead of immunity it is treated as +20 on Grapple Checks.

Comments
The Blue Slaadi is intended to be the Grappler from Hell. Large Bonuses, Abilities that negate things that would negate its chance for grappling, and abilities that can be used with Grappling. It's essentially a giant toad, so it felt appropriate.

The reason for changing it to an aberration is simple; That's what it strikes me as. There's nothing really there that says outsider.

The SLAs weren't thrown in because the only one that really remotely fit was Chaos Hammer, and that didn't seem like it warranted putting in. Chaos Hammer didn't even really fit since it's not a spellcaster type monster, it's a big toad.

I've determined that it's probably better to overload a class with abilities than Underload it.

I know this is mostly things that exist within the rules already rather than my creating stuff like with Illurien, but I think in some ways that can be better. This really depends on the class though.

Sorry for the lack of decent flavor. There wasn't much to work with in the Monster Manual.


Changelog
Added Summon Slaad.

WhatsWithCanada
2012-01-31, 03:53 AM
I was reading through your Half-Dragon and I noticed that the breath weapon you assigned them doesn't actually have a damage amount listed... Perhaps 1d6 for every 2 HD?

edit: also, I noticed that your slaad Cha damage is a little wonky. 2d6 isn't an increase over 1d12. The SRD suggests that 2d6 is a die increase over 1d10. That would allow you to increase to 2d8 then to the final 3d6.

Other than that, my quick run through of your classes finds them quite favorable. I like the fluff and the mechanics are interesting and would be quite fun. Thank you kindly for your hard work.

Mystic Muse
2012-01-31, 12:47 PM
I was reading through your Half-Dragon and I noticed that the breath weapon you assigned them doesn't actually have a damage amount listed... Perhaps 1d6 for every 2 HD? Whoops. Going to fix that. Yeah, 1d6 for every 2 HD seems reasonable given what all else they get.



edit: also, I noticed that your slaad Cha damage is a little wonky. 2d6 isn't an increase over 1d12. The SRD suggests that 2d6 is a die increase over 1d10. That would allow you to increase to 2d8 then to the final 3d6. Ah. My mistake on that. I think I was thinking of the 4th edition rules there, where 2d6 is considered an increase over 1d12. Going to go edit that.



Other than that, my quick run through of your classes finds them quite favorable. I like the fluff and the mechanics are interesting and would be quite fun. Thank you kindly for your hard work.

Thanks! :smallsmile:

Got any requests yourself?

Metahuman1
2012-01-31, 01:26 PM
Ok, regarding the game.

Don't worry about it. I think Igneel was much more hacked off about the game going dead as fast as it did then I was.

I get why he'd be irritated since we both put a nice chunk of work into those characters, but I also get what happened too you as well. Believe me, been there, done that, didn't even manage to hang onto the girl friend, bought the whole Suvenear stand, re-organized it, turned it into a chain, had it go bankrupt when the Economy crashed a few years ago.

Anyway, I'm sure there will be other opportunity's to try again some time down the line. Particularly since I'm sure Igneel didn't delete the character sheet and I know for a fact that I didn't delete mine. =)


And like I said, can't wait to see what becomes of the Erinyes, Lillend and Titan. I know they have to come up at some point. =)

Igneel
2012-01-31, 02:06 PM
*comes into thread to look at Homebrew*
*finds conversation*

Spoiler'd to avoid derailment


Ok, regarding the game.

Don't worry about it. I think Igneel was much more hacked off about the game going dead as fast as it did then I was.

I get why he'd be irritated since we both put a nice chunk of work into those characters, but I also get what happened too you as well. Believe me, been there, done that, didn't even manage to hang onto the girl friend, bought the whole Suvenear stand, re-organized it, turned it into a chain, had it go bankrupt when the Economy crashed a few years ago.

Anyway, I'm sure there will be other opportunity's to try again some time down the line. Particularly since I'm sure Igneel didn't delete the character sheet and I know for a fact that I didn't delete mine. =)

I wouldn't say that I was as 'hacked off' as you put it, just kinda sad that an interesting game died off as fast as it did [4 posts IC is the fastest I have ever had].

I too understand the situation with school, family, the girl, etc.

I still have the character [and list of 40-ish item descriptions] saved both on my laptop and on the internet. I'm still game if you wish to continue, but I think that is a bit of conversation that should continue in at least the OCC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227962) thread rather then here.

====

As to your Homebrew...

@Blue Slaad:

Shot-put (Ex): At third level, youou can hurl rocks and similar materials weighing 40 to 50 pounds with a range increment of 15 feet.
Nothing serious comes to mind while looking through it outside of the massive amount of Grappling people will do while playing one of these things just to throw people.

@Half-dragon/Dragonkin/Dragonborn/ETC:
Excellently done, and now I have the urge to forever ask any Dm's okay with Homebrew to allow that race whenever I feel like playing a dragon class. So I might of missed something but they are treated as dragons huh? Does this open the way for some Dragonwrought shenanigans [age to venerable for Great Wyrm epic feat entry, Sovereign Archtypes from Dragons of Eberron, etc]?
I know someone or two pointed this out in my own homebrew since my Wyrmfire Disciple eventually grants the Dragon Type.

Mystic Muse
2012-01-31, 02:16 PM
*comes into thread to look at Homebrew*
*finds conversation*

Spoiler'd to avoid derailment


I wouldn't say that I was as 'hacked off' as you put it, just kinda sad that an interesting game died off as fast as it did [4 posts IC is the fastest I have ever had].

I too understand the situation with school, family, the girl, etc.

I still have the character [and list of 40-ish item descriptions] saved both on my laptop and on the internet. I'm still game if you wish to continue, but I think that is a bit of conversation that should continue in at least the OCC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227962) thread rather then here.

Any further comments about this will go in that thread before this gets derailed further.

====



As to your Homebrew...

@Blue Slaad:

Nothing serious comes to mind while looking through it outside of the massive amount of Grappling people will do while playing one of these things just to throw people.

That was the idea. Well, not the throwing in particular, but the massive amount of grappling.



@Half-dragon/Dragonkin/Dragonborn/ETC:
Excellently done, and now I have the urge to forever ask any Dm's okay with Homebrew to allow that race whenever I feel like playing a dragon class. So I might of missed something but they are treated as dragons huh? Does this open the way for some Dragonwrought shenanigans [age to venerable for Great Wyrm epic feat entry, Sovereign Archtypes from Dragons of Eberron, etc]?
I know someone or two pointed this out in my own homebrew since my Wyrmfire Disciple eventually grants the Dragon Type.

Eeek. Don't want to allow those kind of shenanigans. Anything I can do to specifically disallow stuff like that?

Metahuman1
2012-01-31, 02:26 PM
Any further comments about this will go in that thread before this gets derailed further.

====



That was the idea. Well, not the throwing in particular, but the massive amount of grappling.



Eeek. Don't want to allow those kind of shenanigans. Anything I can do to specifically disallow stuff like that?

Might I advise just saying that those are specific exceptions to the rules for Dragon type for this? Add to that in the comments that your doing this to specifically to avoid this kinda stunt.

Cause beyond that sorta thing, having the Dragon type is nice for getting you into PrC's or getting you other feats you don't normally have access too.

I personally always kinda wanted to try that special champion of Bahaumet themed one in the Draconomicon.

Igneel
2012-01-31, 02:28 PM
That was the idea. Well, not the throwing in particular, but the massive amount of grappling.
I realize that, just that a lot of people don't like grappling. Course only the people interested in grappling would pick grappling classes so I suppose that's alright.



Eeek. Don't want to allow those kind of shenanigans. Anything I can do to specifically disallow stuff like that?
Truthfully I'm not sure if I ever figured out a way to fix that problem outside of stating that they don't age use dragon age categories...


The Wyrmfire Disciple does not use the dragon aging categories, instead retaining the standard aging category for characters. However the Wyrmfire Disciple no longer takes ability score penalties for aging, though he still gains the ability score benefits, cannot be magically aged, and his maximum age is increased in a similar manner to a Dragonwrought Kobold [See page 39 of Races of the Dragon, or below]. The Wyrmfire Disciple still dies from old age.

Mystic Muse
2012-01-31, 02:49 PM
Might I advise just saying that those are specific exceptions to the rules for Dragon type for this? Add to that in the comments that your doing this to specifically to avoid this kinda stunt. Yeah, maybe.



Truthfully I'm not sure if I ever figured out a way to fix that problem outside of stating that they don't age use dragon age categories...

Might just do this.

Mystic Muse
2012-02-09, 01:11 AM
Alright, I specifically mentioned in the class that they retain their old age categories.

I also have some questions for the thread.

1. What portion of the Erinyes should I focus on? The SRD mentions them largely being Archers, but it also mentions their entangle ability which is rather unique. I have 8 levels to work with, so I'd prefer to stick to one part of the Erinyes.

2. I'd like to have a better way to update the thread on things, or to ask Questions. However, Double posting without mentioning updates to the current homebrew is frowned upon and I very much want to avoid it. Is there a good method I could use for this?

3. For unique Monsters (Such as Illurien), should I continue to allow any alignment, or restrict them specifically to their original alignments? There are going to be more unique monsters in the future, so I want to know now.

4. Does anybody have any advice on making any of the current Monster Classes more interesting? I'm particularly worried about the Nightmare and Illurien, but would like Critiques on anything.

5. Would anybody like me to do more stuff to supplement the Monster classes? I did those feats a while ago and was wondering if I should try something similar. For example, since I'd like to do some evil outsiders this month, I could try to make Fiendish Grafts.

6. What do you guys think of the idea of continued theme months for this thread? Not all monsters would coincide with the theme, (I do monsters for the Monster Class making competition sometimes) but most I planned on Creating would. You guys could then vote for specific themes and such if you wanted. I also plan on maybe releasing a few monsters in groups at this point (Such as if I made all the Chromatic Dragons at one) so should I do that, or keep things spread out in the future?

7. Is there anything I should be doing that I'm not? I've noticed the formats for my monsters isn't really standard. Should I change that, or keep it as is? And yes, I know I need to edit the latest monsters into my lists.

Metahuman1
2012-02-09, 03:32 PM
1: I honestly never got the thing with them being advanced scouts, archers, master swords-women, casters, diplomats, Temptresses, and first in infantry via the Marine Core. If there was one thing I disliked about the race, it was that I felt they could have stood to pair some of that off. Drop Archer and advanced scouts, easy on the spell casting (They should have some synergy with casting classes I think so that if after 8 lvls you want to go that route you can, but not use it as a big focus.), and focus on the Demon-ish sword wielding Valkyries, expert temptresses and negotiators, and yes, the Rope thing of there's is a great trick, full of flavor and mechanically practical, so that should get a prominent feature.

2: If there is, I really can't think of it off the top of my head.

3: I'd put a clause encouraging there original alignment but allow any alignment. Honestly? Most DM's throw alignment restrictions out the window at the drop of the hat unless there determined to use what ever it takes to keep there players at a sub par power level.

4: I'll get back too you once I've taken one or two of them for a spin. Until I've seen how they preform in play I can't really give you much.

5: Yes, that would be interesting. And Graphs would be neat to see.

6: That's interesting if your getting enough requests for thing that fall within a certain category (Celestial, Demon, Fiend, Giant, Dragon, Fey, ext.) to do that. Otherwise, don't worry about it. =)

7: Personally, I don't see anything that jumps out at me, but that doesn't really mean much.

Igneel
2012-02-15, 04:31 AM
1. What portion of the Erinyes should I focus on? The SRD mentions them largely being Archers, but it also mentions their entangle ability which is rather unique. I have 8 levels to work with, so I'd prefer to stick to one part of the Erinyes.

2. I'd like to have a better way to update the thread on things, or to ask Questions. However, Double posting without mentioning updates to the current homebrew is frowned upon and I very much want to avoid it. Is there a good method I could use for this?

3. For unique Monsters (Such as Illurien), should I continue to allow any alignment, or restrict them specifically to their original alignments? There are going to be more unique monsters in the future, so I want to know now.

4. Does anybody have any advice on making any of the current Monster Classes more interesting? I'm particularly worried about the Nightmare and Illurien, but would like Critiques on anything.

5. Would anybody like me to do more stuff to supplement the Monster classes? I did those feats a while ago and was wondering if I should try something similar. For example, since I'd like to do some evil outsiders this month, I could try to make Fiendish Grafts.

6. What do you guys think of the idea of continued theme months for this thread? Not all monsters would coincide with the theme, (I do monsters for the Monster Class making competition sometimes) but most I planned on Creating would. You guys could then vote for specific themes and such if you wanted. I also plan on maybe releasing a few monsters in groups at this point (Such as if I made all the Chromatic Dragons at one) so should I do that, or keep things spread out in the future?

7. Is there anything I should be doing that I'm not? I've noticed the formats for my monsters isn't really standard. Should I change that, or keep it as is? And yes, I know I need to edit the latest monsters into my lists.

1) I'm somewhat hesitant to make the suggestion of something along the lines of a Ranger choice or style option. They seem to be more adequately designed for archery over swordsmanship but that's mostly because they get a Flaming bow over a normal longsword (according to the d20srd). Temptress/Diplomat seems to just be part of their design since technically they are the devil version of succubi, not to mention flavored to be descendants of fallen angels. The entangle ability is a must keep imho. Maybe upgrade it so that it can be slightly more useful outside of areas with lots of ropes just lying around?

2) If there was something out there that homebrewers could do that fit what your wanting, I want to know it as well. Especially since its not like I'm NeoSeraphi and easily buried by other homebrew.

3) I'm going to have to agree with Meta on this one, clause encouraging their original alignment but allow any alignment.

4) I will have to get back to you after looking some over more closely.

5) PrC's/Templates could possibly supplement nicely, not sure which ones out there would be good without going into Original works, but still. Grafts are always welcomed as well.

6) That would be a interesting idea, and would definitely more worth while if requests could be made for said theme. But then we also don't want you to get over loaded with requests [Chromatic Dragons, including other sources, could lead to ~10 classes]. I believe that a few per month would definitely keep people more interested as well.

7) I say you find what you think is adequate, and just keep it that way unless its blatantly not helping others understand what you've written. At least for the Dragon Hoard ability, maybe use the [list] tags to better distinguish one description text from another? Nothing else comes to mind on what could be done/needs to be done to change so its good to me.

@Silver dragon:
Was looking it over for a chance of playing it in an Epic game, and noticed that under the "Improved Alternate Form" spoiler you still have Paladin Casting as something you retain despite the fact you removed it. Needless to say that I was looking through the rest of the class trying to find said feature till I checked the change log.
Another thing that came to mind was the Hoard ability for weapons. You describe it as "natural weapon gains the benefits of the manufactured weapon for as long as the dragon is attuned to it" which is all good for weapons with only a enhancement/ability modifier. But what about special weapons like the Sun Blade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#sunBlade), or for the game I was thinking along the lines of Manyfang Daggers [FR: Serpent Kingdoms, pg 152]? Special abilities like making your claws glow like the sun, or for the Manyfang Daggers example able to create 3 'phantom' claws/teeth/other natural weapon to deal quadruple damage on successful hits, and quintuple damage on critical hits aren't exactly given by their enhancement bonuses so how does one interpret this ability?

On a side note: This brings the idea of a smaller dragon with multiple Sizing [MIC] weapons using its ability to change weapon size to any size desired 1) for a How to train your Dragon 'Toothless' effect, and 2) wielding Colossal claws for or other natural weapons much too big for the smaller body.

Merchant
2012-02-15, 06:52 AM
I just wanted say about the Erinyes in according to wiki they were creatures of vengeance. They hunted down certain individuals. I know it is not dnd flavor but maybe something like tracker/trapper feel.

Oh PS love monster classes and all your work Soft Serve. Along with Hyudra and a few others, you all are my heroes.

Mystic Muse
2012-02-15, 01:00 PM
5) PrC's/Templates could possibly supplement nicely, not sure which ones out there would be good without going into Original works, but still. Grafts are always welcomed as well. I've got a rather obscure sourcebook called Denizens of Avadnu where I can get a few new templates from.


@Silver dragon:
Was looking it over for a chance of playing it in an Epic game, and noticed that under the "Improved Alternate Form" spoiler you still have Paladin Casting as something you retain despite the fact you removed it. Needless to say that I was looking through the rest of the class trying to find said feature till I checked the change log. Thanks, I'll remove it.



Another thing that came to mind was the Hoard ability for weapons. You describe it as "natural weapon gains the benefits of the manufactured weapon for as long as the dragon is attuned to it" which is all good for weapons with only a enhancement/ability modifier. But what about special weapons like the Sun Blade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#sunBlade), or for the game I was thinking along the lines of Manyfang Daggers [FR: Serpent Kingdoms, pg 152]? Special abilities like making your claws glow like the sun, or for the Manyfang Daggers example able to create 3 'phantom' claws/teeth/other natural weapon to deal quadruple damage on successful hits, and quintuple damage on critical hits aren't exactly given by their enhancement bonuses so how does one interpret this ability?

It's meant to give you the same benefits and penalties you would have i you were actually wielding the weapon. So, you should be able to still get the light effect from the Sun Blade, along with the effects of any materials it's made out of.



On a side note: This brings the idea of a smaller dragon with multiple Sizing [MIC] weapons using its ability to change weapon size to any size desired 1) for a How to train your Dragon 'Toothless' effect, and 2) wielding Colossal claws for or other natural weapons much too big for the smaller body.

Hmm. Not sure if this is good or bad.

Been working on the evil outsiders. Going to try and get the Nycaloth and Erinyes done by the end of the month. I can't really find a low CR demon I find interesting, so I'll probably avoid that.

Barbarian MD
2012-02-16, 08:24 PM
If you're still taking them...

Request: Warden Archon. Preferably one that's not 15 levels long...!

Mystic Muse
2012-02-16, 09:27 PM
If you're still taking them...

Request: Warden Archon. Preferably one that's not 15 levels long...!

I'm always taking them, but it greatly helps to know what source they're from.