PDA

View Full Version : The Sarcasm Domain



ORione
2011-05-19, 08:47 PM
So, on another thread, someone mentioned being a cleric of atheism. I liked the idea, but I wasn't sure what domains there would be. I decided Knowledge would be one of them, but none of the others seemed to fit. So I created the Sarcasm Domain.

Feel free to offer suggestions, ask questions, or use it for your cleric (if your DM okays it). I made this with 3rd edition in mind, but feel free to edit it as needed for other editions.

Ability: Clerics with the Sarcasm Domain get the Iron Will feat.
Spells:
0: Inflict Minor Wounds
1: Bane
2: Undetectable Alignment
3: Acid Arrow
4: Discern Lies
5: Wall of Force
6: Stoneskin
7: Spell Turning
8: Symbol*
9: Energy Drain

* Discord, Hopelessness, or Persuasion only.

Shades of Gray
2011-05-19, 08:51 PM
Uh, change the name of the 3rd level spell. Just call it Acid Arrow. The character in question is copyrighted.

I... don't get many of the spell choices.

Wyntonian
2011-05-19, 09:02 PM
Ok, it's a decent domain, and I like the concept, but it kinda seems like you took a bunch of spells at random and just stuck them in.

John Cribati
2011-05-19, 09:07 PM
0: Inflict Minor Wounds
1: Bane
2: Undetectable Alignment
3: Acid Arrow
4: Discern Lies
5: Wall of Force
6: Stoneskin
7: Spell Turning
8: Symbol*
9: Energy Drain

* Discord, Hopelessness, or Persuasion only.

0: Sharp Wit.
1: Sarcasm is the bane of idiots.
2: Some people just don't "get" sarcasm?
4: Sarcasm is basically telling lies while making the truth obvious.
5: Again with the "people who don't get it"?
6: Being "Thick-skinned"
7: I really have no idea.
8: That actually kind of fits.
9: That one too.

ORione
2011-05-19, 09:18 PM
Okay, so here's my reasons for the spells I picked:

Sarcasm can be poisonous. It's sometimes used to hurt people and make them feel bad. Inflict Minor Woundsand Bane represent a slight bit of mockery, while Acid Arrow represents the poisonousness. Larger mockery can be found with Symbol, where sarcasm crushes the mockee's spirits (Hopelessness), angers them (Discord) or embarasses them into changing (Persuasion).

Sarcasm can be used to hide from others and avoid being sincere. It can be a way of shielding oneself from the world. Thus, Undetectable Alignment, Wall of Force, and Stoneskin.

If someone is trying to deceive, sarcasm can be used to reveal it. Discern Lies.

Sarcasm can reveal holes in arguments and turn them around on the opponent. Spell Turning.

That leaves Energy Drain. Honestly, I couldn't think of a good level 9 spell. If you have a better one, I appreciate suggestions. Actually, that goes for all levels.

Edit: I started writing this post before Herpestidae's post was up. He got most of it, and was much more succinct in his explanation than I was in mine. Thanks, Herpestidae.

DracoDei
2011-05-19, 09:37 PM
While Inflict Minor Wounds fits, there aren't, officially, 0th level domain slots. Perhaps this is a house rule. I thought I would mention it however.

AugustNights
2011-05-20, 04:38 AM
"Oh boy. Iron will. I bet I will totally succeed on all my will saves now." ~ Aurther Miles VonJude, Cleric of some old guy or whatever.

It's a fun idea alright, but the domain power leaves me wanting. I think a "get out of bad stuff 1/day" deal would be more fitting. Or even a second will save 1/day. Perhaps the ability to demoralize with Bluff, or Diplomacy, as in "Oh you took levels in Monk? Solid idea, you should be totally fine. I mean you'll totally be able to beat up all the true name users now. Maybe even the odd soulknife"

As it stands a +2 to will saves is a bit underwhelming.

Asta Kask
2011-05-20, 04:50 AM
Yeah, like that domain will ever be used.

Joke

ORione
2011-05-20, 09:14 AM
"Oh boy. Iron will. I bet I will totally succeed on all my will saves now." ~ Aurther Miles VonJude, Cleric of some old guy or whatever.

It's a fun idea alright, but the domain power leaves me wanting. I think a "get out of bad stuff 1/day" deal would be more fitting. Or even a second will save 1/day. Perhaps the ability to demoralize with Bluff, or Diplomacy, as in "Oh you took levels in Monk? Solid idea, you should be totally fine. I mean you'll totally be able to beat up all the true name users now. Maybe even the odd soulknife"

As it stands a +2 to will saves is a bit underwhelming.

Yeah, I wasn't entirely pleased with it either, especially since clerics already get a pretty good will save. I like your idea.

And thanks, DracoDei, for your reminder. I forgot about that. Pity, Inflict Minor Wounds would've been an awesome Sarcasm spell.

Tengu_temp
2011-05-20, 09:40 AM
Uh, change the name of the 3rd level spell. Just call it Acid Arrow. The character in question is copyrighted.

Yeah, and? The OP isn't posting Melf's whole statblock and backstory, or anything like that, only mentioning his name. It's just a name.

ORione
2011-05-20, 10:33 AM
Yeah, and? The OP isn't posting Melf's whole statblock and backstory, or anything like that, only mentioning his name. It's just a name.

A copyrighted name. It's against the rules and possibly illegal, and editing my post wasn't a big deal.

Shades of Gray
2011-05-20, 10:38 AM
Yeah, and? The OP isn't posting Melf's whole statblock and backstory, or anything like that, only mentioning his name. It's just a name.

If that was the case then the SRD would have no issue naming him, as well as the creator of Disjunction, Irresistible Dance, etc. They don't name them for a reason.

Tengu_temp
2011-05-20, 11:21 AM
SRD is official material, not homebrew material or forum discussion. We are free to mention any copyright material as we want, as long as we don't actually reprint the contents - otherwise writing Tome of Battle homebrew, among many other things, would be impossible.

ORione
2011-05-20, 11:54 AM
Okay, so how's this for an ability: Bluff is a class skill. Once per day per three spell levels, a cleric with this domain can use a Bluff check to give opponents a morale penalty of 1d6 rounds.

Tengu_temp
2011-05-20, 12:04 PM
What action? If it's a standard action, then that ability is too weak, unless the penalty is really steep. Free action would probably be the best.

ORione
2011-05-20, 12:43 PM
What action? If it's a standard action, then that ability is too weak, unless the penalty is really steep. Free action would probably be the best.

Yeah, a free action makes sense, because this ability involves talking, which is a free action.

myancey
2011-05-20, 01:01 PM
0: Sharp Wit.
1: Sarcasm is the bane of idiots.
2: Some people just don't "get" sarcasm?
4: Sarcasm is basically telling lies while making the truth obvious.
5: Again with the "people who don't get it"?
6: Being "Thick-skinned"
7: I really have no idea.
8: That actually kind of fits.
9: That one too.

I like this progression..but make the 9th level Apocalypse from the Sky, because its the only spell I feel that can truly describe how much sarcasm crushes my soul...:smallfrown:

wiimanclassic
2011-05-20, 04:39 PM
I like this progression..but make the 9th level Apocalypse from the Sky, because its the only spell I feel that can truly describe how much sarcasm crushes my soul...:smallfrown:

That comes in the sonic variety right? Hehe. The clerics booming voice assaulting his enemies in a hail of sarcasm.


Why did this come to mind?

Debihuman
2011-05-20, 05:49 PM
There was this sarcasm domain:
See here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4120905&postcount=118

Sarcasm Domain

Granted Power: You may use your cutting tongue, rapier wit, and biting sarcasm to shatter someone's ego. As a standard action, you may give up a turning attempt to force a target to make a will save equal to 10 + half your caster level + your Wisdom modifier. On a failed save, the target is frightened for a number of rounds equal to half your caster level. If he succeeds, he is merely shaken. This is a Supernatural mind affecting ability. It only works on people who can understand your language and have an Int of higher than 3.

Domain Spells:

1. Produce Sarcasm - People are stunned by your sarcasm. Functions as Color Spray, but as a sonic attack.
2. Sculpt Sarcasm - Your sarcasm gets an attitude and starts hurting people. Functions as Spiritual Weapon, but deals Sonic damage.
3. Wave of Sarcasm - All those caught within a 60-foot cone must make a Will save or be nauseated by your sarcasm.
4. Sarcastic Smite - Your sarcasm delivers a slap to your enemies. Functions as Flame Strike, but sonic attack.
5. Dispel Sarcasm - Counters sonic based attacks.
6. Sarcastic Barrier - Your sarcasm prevents foes from passing. Functions as Blade Barrier, but deals Sonic damage instead of Fire damage.
7. Word of Sarcasm - Your word of sarcasm is enough to shake the earth. Functions as Earthquake
8. Sarcastic Aura - You are so sarcastic that people around you are at danger of dying from an overdose of sarcasm. Functions as Implosion.
9. Mass Sarcasm

I'm not sure if this helps or not.

Debby

DracoDei
2011-05-20, 09:31 PM
That is a little... rough around the edges... Dispel Sarcasm needs to be better defined for instance and we have no definition (not even the one sentence ones) for the 9th level spell.

ORione
2011-05-21, 08:22 AM
I looked up Apocalypse from the Sky. I don't really care for it. It hurts the caster, and it has the evil tag. I want characters of all alignments to be able to use sarcasm.

More thoughts on the ability: it should be language dependent and only usable on characters with 3+ int. With that in mind, what would be a reasonable size for the morale penalty?

deuxhero
2011-05-22, 12:53 AM
Iron Will as an actual feat (instead of a +2 to will saves) may not be completely horrible. I forget if it can qualify you for any cleric PRcs though.

Darth Stabber
2011-05-22, 02:46 PM
I don't know about all the slots, but I think the 9 should antipathy.

ORione
2011-05-22, 05:34 PM
I don't know about all the slots, but I think the 9 should antipathy.

That was my second choice for level 9. Maybe it would be better...

DracoDei
2011-05-22, 06:14 PM
Random Joke Feat:
Ironic Will
"Oh, yeah, I am in fear of your Daze spell. Really.... I'm petrified." -Daria Morgendorffer (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Daria) 9th level Hexblade, speaking in a monotone.

Your mind is strongest exactly when it probably doesn't really matter that much.
Benefits: You gain a +10 untyped bonus to all will saves against spells with a caster level at least 6 below your ECL and a natural 1 is not an automatic failure on such will saves. If you are ECL 6 or less, then this instead applies to will saves against 0th level spells with a caster level of 1.
In no case does this bonus apply to spells cast directly (so not from a wand, scroll, staff etc) by a true dragon.
Normal: You do not have near-total immunity to spells that generally don't matter.
Special: You may take this feat in place of Iron Will when granted by the Sarcasm Domain. It counts in place of Iron Will for qualifying for other feats, PrCs and such, and its effects ESPECIALLY stack with the Iron Will feat itself.

Darth Stabber
2011-05-22, 08:08 PM
Every thing dracodei just said is win.

Question though, does this affect scrolls, staves, and wands since they always have a crappy CL. I'm guessing it does given thr comment about dragons, but I wanted to check for sure.

Popertop
2011-05-22, 08:25 PM
that seems more the jurisdiction of the Irony domain :/

DracoDei
2011-05-22, 09:14 PM
Everything dracodei just said is win.
Thank you!

Question though, does this affect scrolls, staves, and wands since they always have a crappy CL. I'm guessing it does given the comment about dragons, but I wanted to check for sure.
Yes, I would have to say that it does.

that seems more the jurisdiction of the Irony domain :/
True, but it was just an off the cuff idea, people can adapt it as they see fit. I don't even want play-test data in this case, although I will take it if I can get it. Credit in any re-postings would be good though.

Popertop
2011-05-22, 10:05 PM
you should develop an irony domain in addition to the sarcasm domain

DracoDei
2011-05-22, 10:33 PM
you should develop an irony domain in addition to the sarcasm domain

I am not sure if this was directed at me or if it was directed to ORione. If ORione, then ignore this message. If it was directed to me then I don't think it sounds like my sort of thing to homebrew.

ORione
2011-05-22, 10:38 PM
you should develop an irony domain in addition to the sarcasm domain

And if it was directed towards me, I don't think I want to. The two domains would be too similar. After all, sarcasm is a form of irony.

BladeofOblivion
2011-05-22, 10:39 PM
And if it was directed towards me, I don't think I want to. The two domains would be too similar. After all, sarcasm is a form of irony.

In fact, Sarcasm is more or less a synonym for verbal Irony. So yeah...

Jallorn
2011-05-22, 11:17 PM
And if it was directed towards me, I don't think I want to. The two domains would be too similar. After all, sarcasm is a form of irony.

Nitpicking here, but no, it's not, not usually. Sarcasm and irony can be, and often are, used in the same instant, but they are not too terribly synonymous. Sarcasm is a way of talking, of conveying emotion and meaning, while irony is usually a juxtaposition of elements in a story (most often) wherin the elements individually are sensible, but together are silly.... and that is a horrible definition/explanation.

SPoD
2011-05-22, 11:45 PM
All you would need for an Irony domain would be to take the WORST possible choices for every spell level, and then give the worst possible feat as a granted power (Run?). Then hipster clerics could say they were taking the Irony domain ironically.

ORione
2011-05-23, 09:35 AM
All you would need for an Irony domain would be to take the WORST possible choices for every spell level, and then give the worst possible feat as a granted power (Run?). Then hipster clerics could say they were taking the Irony domain ironically.

I bequeath my internets to you.

John Cribati
2011-05-23, 09:44 AM
that is a horrible definition/explanation.

Yes. Yes it is.

There are 20+ games named Final Fantasy. That's ironic, isn't it? and it has nothing to do with a story or anything.

Irony is simply something happening that is the opposite of what is expected.

EDIT: Relevant:


http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/irony/header.png
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/irony/1.png
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/irony/2.png
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/irony/3.png
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/irony/4.png
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/irony/5.png

ORione
2011-05-23, 10:02 AM
I think we've hit upon the best reason not to create an Irony Domain: it would inspire too many arguments over what "irony" means.

HalfDragonCube
2011-05-23, 12:19 PM
Wait, so what is irony again?

[/sarcasm and/or irony]

IronWilliam
2011-05-23, 08:42 PM
It's something made of metal.:smallwink:

Veklim
2011-05-24, 10:31 AM
Love the irony strip! I agree, the most ironic thing about Alanis' song would be the title, but indeed, that makes it ironic in and of itself (though I very much doubt the songwriter was trying to be THAT obtuse/clever/smug)

With regards to the domain though, I had a wee little idea, I did...

You like the inflict minor (who wouldn't, it's kinda built for sarcasm after all) and you need a new domain power. How about this?
Whenever your character makes a sarcastic remark or succeeds on a bluff, diplomacy or intimidate check, you may chose to deal 1 point of damage (as per inflict minor, except no spell or touch attack are required, merely your razor sharp tongue!) to whomever it was you made the check against. It is highly likely the receiver of said damage will have no clue as to it's source, only a sense motive (DC ?) will reveal the truth. In the event of mass sarcasm (a public address or the like), you may elect which members of that group get damage and which don't.
The DM may overrule this, as is his divine right. :smallbiggrin:

ORione
2011-05-24, 11:05 AM
Veklim, that is perfect. Bluff and Intimidate should be class skills, and then I think iwe have it.

DracoDei
2011-05-24, 01:07 PM
For public speaking I would consider capping the maximum number of targets at (Class Level+1)^2 or some such. That would give you the following:
(EDITED based on Herpestidae's catching of a technical blunder on my part).
{table="head"]Clr Lvl|Targets
1|4
2|9
3|16
4|25
5|36
.|.
.|.
.|.
9|100
10|121
11|144
.|.
.|.
.|.
19|400
20|441
[/table]
I used the skips because I think it actually enhances clarity when the point is discussion, even though it doesn't reduce the number of rows much.

John Cribati
2011-05-24, 01:42 PM
@DracoDei: I think this is what you meant to do.
{table="head"]Clr Lvl|Targets
1|4
2|9
3|16
4|25
5|36
.|.
.|.
.|.
9|100
10|121
11|144
.|.
.|.
.|.
19|400
20|441
[/table]

Veklim
2011-05-25, 05:29 AM
Looks like a pretty good progression actually, nice to see a proper exponential from time to time! :smalltongue:


Veklim, that is perfect...

Why thank you! I do my best.

Darth Stabber
2011-05-25, 09:05 AM
The feat Tomb Tainted Soul takes some of the irony out of IMW. It has saved one of my characters before (a DN).

Veklim
2011-05-25, 09:35 AM
This is true, but then again there's an exception to every rule if you look hard enough.
Besides, the irony domain would then become VERY useful to a DN, can you imagine him standing there, throwing dry wit and loaded comments at his undead horde to patch them up...?

HalfDragonCube
2011-05-25, 10:58 AM
The feat Tomb Tainted Soul takes some of the irony out of IMW. It has saved one of my characters before (a DN).

Ah yes, trusty touch range healing. Reminds me of a time I played a paladin. They got swallowed by a huge fish. Quite a bit of damage was involved.

Me: I lay my hands upon myself.

DM: :smallconfused: An odd response to being swallowed alive, but if that makes you happy...

Or that time I was playing MTG and looked up the rules to see if creatures with Deathtouch could be made to touch themselves.