Is this any Good?

[Milo v3]

This is for short bursts of creative writing and helping people find out what they need to improve on. To start I will post the first Poetry I've ever writen. (I would post some of my novel but I want it published so I shouldn't post it in a forum)


Amber
The thing that entombs me.
Your celestial beauty sparks the inferno with my soul.
The blaze is not of fury, but pain.
Yet with this flame my tongue is frozen.
Your pure eyes pierce my mind like daggers and draw forth not blood but guilt.
When I gaze upon thee I see the sorrow within thy soul.
Yet with all this pain my soul cannot truly rest without you near.
You invade my mind with such ferocity, yet.
Still I love thee.


So what can I improve on? And if you have your own writing please post a small snippet of it an let us help.

[Asthix]

I have to go to work so I can't do a full critique but you used 'You're' wrong. It should be 'Your.'

[Thanqol]

This is for short bursts of creative writing and helping people find out what they need to improve on. To start I will post the first Poetry I've ever writen. (I would post some of my novel but I want it published so I shouldn't post it in a forum)


Amber 11
The thing that Entombs me.
Your Celestial beauty sparks the inferno with my soul.
The Blaze is not of fury, but pain.
Yet with this flame my tongue is frozen.
Your pure eyes pierce my mind like daggers and draw forth not blood but guilt.
When I gaze upon thee I see the sorrow within thy soul.
Yet with all this pain my soul cannot truly rest without you near.
You invade my mind with such ferocity, yet.......
Still I love thee.


So what can I improve on? And if you have your own writing please post a small snippet of it an let us help.

First off, a disclaimer that I'm a creative writing student at university and I read and critique a lot of poems :smallwink: Attempting stuff like this is great and you should keep at it. Being discouraged is the worst thing.

That said, some feedback:

Random capitalisation, over use of dots after 'yet', and the big, multi-sylabelled words crush the beat. You also load it with too many potent words and images and the poem loses focus. You start talking about amber, which immediately becomes a prison, which becomes stars, which becomes fire, which becomes pain, which becomes ice, which becomes swords, etc. Ask yourself what the poem is about; what's the key image, and then start exploring that one image.

Poetry, to me, is about capturing a single image, mood or emotion and putting it into words; the translation of the emphemeral to the linguistic. I don't know what you're trying to communicate here. Take the time to reflect on what the image is, what made you want to write this poem?

[Domochevsky]

I have to go to work so I can't do a full critique but you used 'You're' wrong. It should be 'Your.'

I don't think that's how grammar works. >_>

[Milo v3]

First off, a disclaimer that I'm a creative writing student at university and I read and critique a lot of poems :smallwink: Attempting stuff like this is great and you should keep at it. Being discouraged is the worst thing.

That said, some feedback:

Random capitalisation, over use of dots after 'yet', and the big, multi-sylabelled words crush the beat. You also load it with too many potent words and images and the poem loses focus. You start talking about amber, which immediately becomes a prison, which becomes stars, which becomes fire, which becomes pain, which becomes ice, which becomes swords, etc. Ask yourself what the poem is about; what's the key image, and then start exploring that one image.

Poetry, to me, is about capturing a single image, mood or emotion and putting it into words; the translation of the emphemeral to the linguistic. I don't know what you're trying to communicate here. Take the time to reflect on what the image is, what made you want to write this poem?

Don't worry I'm will not be discouraged, as this was my first attempt ever I expected to have to work at it.

Will fix the grammar. I can also see what you mean by "loading it with too many potent images and it loses focus". I was trying to get across why I am Entombed whenever I see her and I can't think of anything else other than guilt and sorrow and pain.

[Thanqol]

Don't worry I'm will not be discouraged, as this was my first attempt ever I expected to have to work at it.

Will fix the grammar. I can also see what you mean by "loading it with too many potent images and it loses focus". I was trying to get across why I am Entombed whenever I see her and I can't think of anything else other than guilt and sorrow and pain.

Wait, so this is about a chick? Huh.

(Death of author, death of author)

I've got three recommends to learn how to poetrize better:
- Try some formal structures. They're really hard, but that's the point; it makes you think really carefully about words. They're great fun to play around with.
- Read it out loud. See how it flows. See if you can pick up a beat in the writing. Feel out each word.
- Read lots of poetry. Buy a giant ass tome of dead poet words and flick through it to random pages and read out random sentences and poems. I find a book with a lot of different styles, voices and eras works best for me. The point is to really experience what people can do with language, and get the feel for poems that work.

[Milo v3]

Wait, so this is about a chick? Huh.

(Death of author, death of author)

I've got three recommends to learn how to poetrize better:
- Try some formal structures. They're really hard, but that's the point; it makes you think really carefully about words. They're great fun to play around with.
- Read it out loud. See how it flows. See if you can pick up a beat in the writing. Feel out each word.
- Read lots of poetry. Buy a giant ass tome of dead poet words and flick through it to random pages and read out random sentences and poems. I find a book with a lot of different styles, voices and eras works best for me. The point is to really experience what people can do with language, and get the feel for poems that work.

Okay I understand the 3 recommedations. But I'm not sure about the "Death of Author". Are you suggesting that if she reads that

I can't think of anything else other than guilt and sorrow and pain when I look at her she will kill me.

[Thanqol]

Okay I understand the 3 recommedations. But I'm not sure about the "Death of Author". Are you suggesting that if she reads that
she will kill me.

Death of Author: An english professor somewhere found he enjoyed talking about dead poets more than live poets because he could say whatever he wanted about dead poets and they couldn't say "Uh, no, I wasn't talking about the inevitability of time, what I actually meant was she's hot."

So he invented a concept called DEATH OF AUTHOR which means that all authors are dead and whatever they say about their work which is not actually in their work is no more 'canon' than any other random's opinion. So JK Rowling saying Dumbledore is gay, noncanon. She's just some rich broad with an opinion.

Why I included the comment there was to remind myself that I couldn't reassess the poem to see if it worked once I read it from the point of view of knowing it was about a chick. If I couldn't pick up that you were talking about a chick from the poem, it's not about a chick.

[leakingpen]

I agree with everything Thangol said (Thangol, stealing death of an author. That is so very true. if you have to say it outside the work, the work failed. )

sparks the inferno with my soul.

Should that be within my soul?


Also, I think a big thing is that you are giving phrases for emotional impact, but they are big cumbersome phrases, not emotions.

The blaze is not of fury, but pain.

A blaze of pain, not fury.

A blaze of pain erupts, no fury in my soul.

A blaze not of fury, but of pain.

These are more emotional phrases, and yes, just replacing the for a makes it more general, more emotional. You are working with metaphor here, you want to refer to general things.


As for novel, have you given thought to self publishing online as opposed to slogging through the slush pile?

[Comet]

Everything else has been covered pretty well so far, but I just wanted to say that talking about Poetry, with a capital P, is something that I found awkward enough to make a note on. In general, I find that putting Capital letters onto Important Things on a whim gives off a sense of trying too hard to impress. Words are words, relax and let them do their thing.

[Ninjaman]

First off: i don´t know anything about poetry.
Second off: I like it, and I understood that it was about a girl.
Third off: Keep dong this.

[Milo v3]

First off: i don´t know anything about poetry.
Second off: I like it, and I understood that it was about a girl.
Third off: Keep dong this.

Thanks. So anyone else wondering about there writing and what they might need to improve on.

I will probably add more focused attempts at poetry. Probably about that girl.

[truemane]

First off, I want to echo the sentiment that the single most important thing you can do to be a better writer is to write. You ever hear the expression that decisions get made by the people who show up? refers to the fact that, titles and power levels aside, things get done by the people that come to the meetings and do the work.

Writing is the same. Talent this, genius that, clever, smart, degree, whatever. Books get written by the people that do the writing. You can moan all you want about the success of the Twilight sage but she actually wrote a book and you didn't so there.

(that last comment isn't directed at YOU, you. Just the general, non-specific 'you')

So. Keep writing. That's number one.

And the second most important thing you can do to be a better writer is to read. Getting a gigantic book of poetry is a wonderful idea. You can usually get them for pennies at a used book store. Do some research. Find out what an iambic pentameter is and what it's for. Having a good command of 'Craft' is like having a large wardrobe. The more extensive it is, the more occasions you're prepared for. And learning structured verse will do your own verse wonders, even the free verse. Learning how to run in chains means you can really fly once the chains are removed.

Okay? Okay. Now. Poetry.

The single most important rule in poetry (in any art, really) is this: whatever you do, make a point, even if your point is there is no point. Especially in something as compressed and dense as poetry, each every element from the words to the periods to the place you break the lines needs to somehow support your central thesis. This is somewhat muddied by the fact that 'because it felt right' is a perfectly valid justification when the element in question is working, and a horrible one when it isn't. And how can you tell when something's working and when it's not? *shrug* No one can. That's the beauty of it.

But keep that in mind as you write and polish: everything needs to coalesce around a central theme, image, idea or incident. Everything, from the rhythm and rhyme (or lack of same) from the vocabulary to the way you punctuate your lines.

Don't' use overly ornate 'poetic' language unless that somehow feeds your thesis. If you're trying to convey something in everyday language, USE everyday language and put the emotion between the words.

Remember that short lines gather and hold tension, long lines release it. Short lines feel more formal and unnatural, long lines more closely mimic everyday speech. So depending on the mood of what you're trying to convey, modulate your line length accordingly. And you don't have to choose and stick with it. In free verse, you can gather tension with short lines and then release it all at a dramatically appropriate moment with a nice long one later on. Or vice versa.

Pay attention to the beats. Even if your verse isn't strictly rhythmical, you should have an ear for where the emphasis falls and how 'heavy' the beat is. Someone said to read the poem out loud. You should always do this. And then, when you're satisfied with the way it sounds, have someone else read it out loud to you. That'll establish where the stresses are and where you should put them.

Another interesting thing is to take out all the punctuation and read it out loud/get someone else to read out out loud. That'll give you an idea of where the stresses in the language are and where the pauses lie and where they're conspicuous by their absence.

Pay attention to the letters in the words you use. Words filled with the 'explosive' consonants (p, b, t, k) make for a harsh, staccato feel. Words filled with 'liquid' consonants (l, m, n, s) flow and glide. Same with vowels. Short i's and a's give a very, very different feel than long e's and o's, even if the actual message conveyed by the image is the same.

Senses, senses, senses. It's not a hard and fast rule, and has as many exceptions as it has adherents, but you should, as much as possible, convey imagery through the senses (unless not doing so somehow supports your thesis better). Don't tell me her gaze is keen, tell me her eyes sparkle. Don't tell me that you're sad, say your chest is filled with mud. Similies are often traps. Any time you find yourself saying something is LIKE something else, try to find a way to convey the idea with only the something else. Not 'her words cut like knives' but rather 'her words slash and gouge.'

Adverbs. I know you like them, I know they're fun, but they're traps. Try to avoid them, and put whatever energy and emotion they convey into the verbs and nouns around them. He didn't 'yell loudly' instead he 'screamed his rage to the heavens.' Any time you find yourself using an adverb, try to replace it with a better verb, better noun, better phrase.

Line breaks. The single one and only thing that separated poetry from prose is that, in poetry, the poet decides where the line ends and in prose, the type-setter does. Period. Everything else is only a matter of degree. So be aware of what the line breaks are conveying. When you break a line a natural pause (comma, period) then your lines will sound neat and tidy. When you spill the phrase/ idea/ sentence over to the next line (called 'enjambment') then the image is slightly broken by the mild pause as the reader's eyes catch up on the next line, and the image will come across as messy or chaotic. Also, if you break the sentence, then the individual 'half-phrases' can kind of stand on their own, so you get a sort of three-for-one deal, the half on the one line, the half on the next, and then the two together as read. Clever enjambment can add a lot to a poem. But like garlic in your mashed potatoes, a little can go a long way and so should be used sparingly (unless somehow excessive use supports your central thesis).

Find other poets. The importance and value of a supportive community cannot be overstressed. it's no coincidence that most of the major movements in art have been driven by like-minded individuals who have gathered together to support each other. Find a local writing group. Go to the meetings. Participate in the discussion. You'll find your writing takes enormous leaps in a very short time.

That's all I got at the moment. Welcome to the wonderful world of poetry!

[leakingpen]

this! what nim said.

Also, enter the next iron poet contest here.

[Asthix]

Excellent points, nimdyd.


I don't think that's how grammar works. >_>

I don't understand. Without the contraction, the line would read, "You are celestial beauty sparks the inferno with my soul"

Also, I agree with leakingpen that 'within' would work better.

[Milo v3]

I gaze at the prison and I become trapped
Amber Walls close in suffocating me
I scream but no sound escapes its crystalline form
It keeps closing in until I am entombed for ever
An insect in the prison.

This is my second attempt at poetry.

[Omeganaut]

Your poetry is dripping with emotional and descriptive words. The biggest issue I have with what you have so far is that the rhythm of the poem just isn't right. Now, I enjoy free verse, and I write some too, but it has to have some kind of rhythm to it or it's just prose with line breaks. Free verse isn't really free, its just another way of adding to the poetic impact of the poem. Maybe you should try writing metered poetry (not rhyming, and not necessarily iambic, just following a pattern of syllables). Also, read it out loud. Really! It will give you a better sense of the rhythm, and allow you to see where it needs a line break, where it doesn't, and where it needs another syllable or two.

As for the last poem, it seems short. Maybe talk about escape or the beauty of the prison itself. I often add more lines or stanzas to my poetry, don't be afraid to continue in another writing session.

Other than that, keep writing, and write down any group of lines that come to you. Best of luck!

[Asthix]

With your second poem, I would challenge you to not repeat the word amber, since in such a brief poem it stands out, perhaps too much.

[Thanqol]

I gaze at the Amber prison and I become trapped
Amber Walls close in suffocating me
I scream but no sound escapes its crystalline form
It keeps closing in until I am entombed for ever
As an insect in the prison.

This is my second attempt at poetry.

Much better! The prison image is clear; you've got something to say, and you say it.

Nitpicks:
>As an insect in the prison
General "An insect" to specific "*the* Prison". Doesn't flow. "An insect in a prison" or "the insect in the prison".

Repetition of the word 'amber' should be avoided. You also use 'prison' twice, try and avoid it if you can unless you're deliberately setting up a beat, e.g.

Through silver walls and silver falls,
And 'cross silver skies, the moonlight calls,

'Crystalline' is such a huge and clunky word to drop into the middle of a poem.