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Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 01:55 AM
Sorcerers just aren't different enough from Wizards. And lets face it, their both boring anyway without them being identical to someone who doesn't notice the wizards spellbook. Lemme put some duck tape on the situation:



http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/Aokidanza/Other/Anime/Guys/anime_boy-1.jpg
The Sorcerer
"Lets see your 'Superior magical Knowledge' now, Wizard" ~ Singularity
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Naturally Magical, Source|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3||6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3||7|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Naturally Magical|8|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Spell Flux|8|7|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5||8|8|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5||8|8|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Naturally Magical|8|8|7|5|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6||8|8|8|6|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Source|8|8|8|7|5|3|—|—|—|—

11th|+5|+3|+3|+7||8|8|8|8|6|4|—|—|—|—

12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Naturally Magical|8|8|8|8|7|5|3|—|—|—

13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8||8|8|8|8|8|6|4|—|—|—

14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9||8|8|8|8|8|7|5|3|—|—

15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9|Spell Flux|8|8|8|8|8|8|6|4|—|—

16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Naturally Magical|8|8|8|8|8|8|7|5|3|—

17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10||8|8|8|8|8|8|8|6|4|—

18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||8|8|8|8|8|8|8|7|5|3

19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||8|8|8|8|8|8|8|8|6|4

20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Naturally Magical, Source, Share the Gift|8|8|8|8|8|8|8|8|7|6

[/table]
Hit Dice: d4
Skill Points: 4+Int (x4 at first level)
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Cha). Use Magic Device (Cha)
Alignment: Sorcerers can be of any alignment, as they were once simple beings until they awoke to their inner magic.

Class Features:
Weapons and Armor proficiency:
Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons, and light armor but no shields.

Spellcasting:
The Sorcerer gains spells, Once a spell is learned you can only change it when ever you gain a new spell level.
The Sorcerer uses Charisma for her casting, determining Spell DC's, bonus spells and the like.
The Sorcerer can learn custom spells to they're spells known without research, but naturally they are subject to DM approval as normal.
When subject to dispelling effects, a Sorcerer's spell is treated as having -5 to its caster level. However when the Sorcerer herself is attempting to dispel, she treats her caster level as +5 with a Spell Penetration for spell resistance of the same, +5.

Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|7|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|7|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|8|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|8|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|9|6|4|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|9|7|5|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|10|7|5|4|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|10|7|6|5|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|11|7|6|5|4|3|—|—|—|—

11th|11|7|7|6|5|4|—|—|—|—

12th|11|7|7|6|5|4|3|—|—|—

13th|11|7|7|6|6|5|4|—|—|—

14th|11|7|7|6|6|5|4|3|—|—

15th|11|7|7|6|6|6|5|4|—|—

16th|11|7|7|6|6|6|5|4|3|—

17th|11|7|7|6|6|6|5|5|4|—

18th|11|7|7|6|6|6|5|5|4|3

19th|11|7|7|6|6|6|5|5|5|4

20th|11|7|7|6|6|6|5|5|5|5

[/table]


Apprentice:
At level five the sorcerer attracts the service of an Apprentice. The apprentice is effectively a first level sorcerer that follows all the rules of a familiar (such as empathetic connections, share spells, and other such traits), accept that its intelligence is standard for its race and you do not suffer negative effects if it dies. The next time you level up, the Apprentice also levels up. from thereafter the apprentice levels up every two levels you level up. A Sorcerer can expend 100xp per character level of the Apprentice to mimic the effects of Resurrection as he or she imparts some of her own life force through the magical connection between the two of them to grant life again.
A sorcerer can choose to not take an Apprentice if she so chooses.
An apprentice can be of any age below adulthood, or above ten depending on race, mostly up to DM. An apprentice is alway a DM npc, and no. Apprentices cannot have apprentices. thats just foolish.
The Head Sorcerer does however! - Gain the ability to take on multiple Apprentices every five levels hereafter.
By level twenty you could have one level 9 one 7 one 4 and one 1 apprentices.
A Master sorcerer must devote at least four hours a day to actively teaching the apprentices via sit down, discussions, practice drills, book learning (from other sorcerers who share they're knowledge as they pass on. Only sorcerers can understand whats going on, however.)

Source:
The Sorcerer gains a Source from which they draw their magic whether they know it or not.
Demonic: You gain the baatezu subtype for effects that would effect baatezu, you gain a +1/2 class levels bonus to interactions with demonkind. Your magics tend to be dark and wicked in appearance.
Lv 10: gain horns of your choice (within reason), they deal appropriate damage for your size, You gain +2 effective spell level with [evil] spells.
Lv 20: gain leathery wings and a fly speed =x1.5 landspeed (average)
You gain +4 effective spell level with [evil] spells.
Celestial:You gain the guardinal subtype for effects that would effect guardinal, you gain a +1/2 class levels bonus to interactions with guardinals. Your magics tend to be strong and orderly in appearance.
Lv 10: Your hair when casting magic or under ongoing effects, becomes vibrant feathers of chosen color. feathers render subject under effects of feather fall at all times even when Source traits are suppressed. You gain +2 effective spell level with [Law] spells.
Lv 20: You gain four thinner, longer feathery wings. You gain a fly speed of x3 land speed (perfect), and You gain +4 effective spell level with [Law] spells.
Infernal:You gain the tanar'ri subtype for effects that would effect tanar'ri, you gain a +1/2 class levels bonus to interactions with tanar'ri. Your magics tend to be chaotic and grotesque.
Lv 10: You gain a long whip like tail That can be used as such, or to grab light items at range of up to ten feet away. You gain +2 effective spell level with [chaotic] spells.
Lv 20: You gain claws dealing normal damage for their size, and a burrow speed equal to 1/2 land speed. You gain +4 effective spell level with [chaotic] spells.
Angelic: You gain the angel subtype for effects that would effect angels, you gain a +1/2 class levels bonus to interactions with angeloids. Your magics tend to be bright and holy in appearance.
Lv 10: You gain a glowing halo (of chosen color) when casting magic or under ongoing effects. Halo grants +1 to all allies within 30ft to saves against fear, or evil spells and effects and provides dim illumination in the same radius. You gain +2 effective spell level with [good] spells.
LV 20: You gain large feathery wings of chosen color. You gain fly speed x2 land speed (average) You gain +4 effective spell level with [good] spells.
Draconic:You gain the Dragonblood subtype for effects that would effect dragons, you gain a +1/2 class levels bonus to interactions with dragonkind. Your magics tend to be fierce in appearance.
Lv10: You gain dragonlike eyes and form small, light scales around places such as shoulders, back, elbows ect. Gain Lowlight vision an Darkvision at 60ft, DR 1 and Fast Healing 1, and natural armor 2.
Lv 20: You gain dragon like wings, more vivid scales. Granting DR 5, Fast Healing 5, natural armor 7, Fly speed x2 landspeed (average) and regeneration 1.
You can choose to suppress granted traits as a full round action, and manifest them again as a standard action. However if you die or become unconscious (unnaturally) Your traits make themselves apparent.

Naturally Magical:
You gain the following at indicated levels. Feats gained from Naturally Magical do not have spell level adjustment. Naturally Magical metamagics only apply to one spell at a time, and requires a movement equivalent action to reset them all or some of them elsewhere.

1st level: Eschew Materials (Effects all spells, not jut one)
4th level: Still spells
8th level: Shape Spell
12th level: Enlarged Spells.
16th level: Silent Spell
20th level: Ignore material component. (Effects all spells, not jut one)

The Sorcerer can apply metamagic normally and stackable metamagic feats can stack with the stackable feat that was given through naturally magical.
If you already have a feat Naturally Magical provides, it instead just becomes free of level adjustment when you reach its corresponding level.
All Metamagic costs past Naturally Magical for a Sorcerer are halved, rounded up, to a minimum of 1.



Spell Flux
Greater Spell Flux (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194510&highlight=Sorcerer)
Spell Flux (Su)
At 4th level, you gain the ability to channel great arcane power through your sorcerer spells, adding +2 to your caster level for all calculations involving that spell. However, the magical energies you channel are unstable, and may have unpredictable results. Roll 1d20 on the Magical Mishap table after casting the spell to determine the effects of this. The DM may call for a reroll if the negative effects of the mishap are redundant with an effect you already suffer, or are somehow prevented.

In addition, the Dungeon Master may call for you to make a roll on the Magical Mishap table whenever you suffer great stress, as your own magical puissance goes out of control. Rolling a natural 1 on a Will save is always a valid reason for the DM to call for a roll, as is falling to 0 hp or less. He can also call for a roll in the case of events such as an ally's betrayal, being left by a romantic partner, or similar stresses. If the rolled effect uses spell level in a calculation, treat it as a spell of the second-highest level the sorcerer can cast.

Greater Spell Flux (Su)
At 10th level, you gain the power to unleash arcane power beyond all imagination or sanity, letting you add +4 to your caster level when using your Spell Flux class feature. However, doing so is never safe–instead of rolling on the Magical Mishap table, make a roll on the Arcana Disaster table.

Likewise, the Dungeon Master may choose for you to roll on the Arcane Disaster table instead of the Magical Mishap table when you suffer a stress that is permanently life-changing and more than you can bear, such as being tortured, watching a beloved companion die, or discovering that you (or your wife) is pregnant.

Magical Mishap Table
{table=head]Roll|Name|Effect

20|Aura of Power|An aura of arcane energy emanates harmlessly from you as you cast the spell, revealing your sorcerous power. You may dictate the exact appearance of this aura to match the spell you are casting, as long as it remains obviously supernatural.

19|Wondrous Transformations|You radiate transformative magical energies, causing supernatural but harmless transformations wherever you pass. The DM may choose to apply effects equivalent to a prestidigitation spell to any inanimate object, plant, or animal within one hundred feet of you for the next day. Characters attempting to track your movement during this time can follow this trail of wonders, gaining a +5 circumstance bonus on their roll.

18|Uncanny Weather|Small objects (or animals!) such as flowers, frogs, or tarot cards begin to rain from the sky around you. This improbable rain occurs within five hundred yards of you for the next five minutes. The falling objects are never harmful or valuable.

17|Warped Spells|Chaos permeates your magic, causing your spells to manifest in bizarre and unusual ways. Although their mechanical effects are unchanged, their appearance is altered in absurd or improbable ways–a fireball might conjure up purple flames, while a flight spell might be accompanied by a pair of large, feathery wings. All Spellcraft rolls made to identity your spells take a -2 penalty for the duration of this effect. This magical flux lasts for a single day.

16|Spellflare|Your spell is accompanied by a burst of light or similar manifestation, blinding you until the end of your next turn. Characters within five feet of you are dazzled for one round unless they make a Will save, DC (12 + Spell Level).

15|Arcane Backlash|The spell drains some of your vitality, dealing 3d6 nonlethal damage to you. Nothing can prevent this damage.

14|Power Lapse|Your arcane power flickers momentarily, reducing the duration of all your currently-active spells by a single round.

13|Spell Drain|Casting the spell takes more power than you expect, causing you to suddenly lose a single 1st-level spell slot (or a slot of the next-highest level, if none are available).

12|Solipsistic Genius|You are momentarily distracted by the sheer magnificence or your own power, causing you to lose your next action (mad laughter optional). Your immense ego causes you to gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Will saves during that time.

11|Spatial Warp|Your spell bends space around you, teleporting you and your equipment to a square within (Spell Level x 10) feet, at the DM's choice. He cannot choose a destination that would be harmful to you in any way.

10|Baleful Prestidigitation|Minor magical effects manifest around you, distracting you from the task at hand. For the rest of the encounter, you suffer a -1 penalty on all attack rolls and skill checks, and must make a DC 15 Concentration check to successfully cast a spell. On a failure, the spell slot and any components are still expended.

9|Arcane Delirium|Magical backlash on your mind causes you to suffer visual and auditory hallucinations for the rest of the encounter, with effects similar to a minor image spell (no save allowed). The Dungeon Master dictates the exact details of the illusion, but cannot create on that will have automatically lethal results for your character.

8|Material Consumption|Your spell consumes a single mundane object on your person as an additional material component, destroying it utterly. The Dungeon Master chooses which object is destroyed.

7|Vulnerability|You are momentarily weakened, taking a -2 penalty on all saving throws for the rest of the encounter.

6|Spasmodic Shapechange|You spontaneously change into a member of a different race chosen by the DM, with the same racial HD and level adjustment as your own race, with effects equivalent to the alter self spell. The transformation remains in place for a full day and cannot be reversed.

5|Arcane Recoil|The backlash of your spell flings you back up to (Spell Level x 5) feet in a direction of the DM's choice, and causes you to fall prone. If this recoil causes you to collide with an obstacle before completing this movement, you suffer 1d4 nonlethal damage for every five feet of movement remaining.

4|Mindfire|Your mind is scarred by the magical energies you channel, causing you to suffer a single point of both Intelligence damage and Charisma damage. This cannot reduce you below a score of 1 in either ability.

3|Spell Fatigue|The magic leaves you wearied, causing you to become exhausted. At the end of the encounter, this ends, but still leaves you fatigued until you have had eight hours of rest.

2|Sorcerous Impotence|Your magical energies are exhausted for the duration of the encounter, causing you to take a -1 penalty to your caster level for the purposes of any spells you cast. This does not affect your spells per day or your access to spells based on caster level.

1|Arcane Eruption|You lose a single spell slot of the highest level you can cast, which explodes in a blast of pure arcane power. This deals (Spell Level x 4) damage to you, which cannot be prevented by any means. The explosion extends fifteen feet from you, dealing (Spell Level x 2) damage to all characters caught within it. A Reflex save at DC (12 + Spell Level) halves the damage.
[/table]

Arcane Disaster Table
{table=head]Roll|Name|Effect

20|Minor Mishap|Everything goes better than expected–instead of suffering an Arcane Disaster, make another roll on the Magical Mishap table.

19|Memory Blank|Your spell consumes memories from you as part of its casting. Once the current encounter has ended, you completely lose all memories of it. No magic can restore them.

18|Moment of Weakness|Your sorcerous power falters when you need it. You take a -10 penalty on the next caster level check you make for any reason.

17|Bad Luck|Your spell warps fate itself, calling bad fortune down on your future. At any time when you make a roll, the DM may call for you to make a reroll after seeing the result, keeping the lower of the two rolls (or higher, if this would be worse). Once he has done so, this bad fortune ends.

16|Spellblind|Your eyes are seared blind by the radiance of your spell, blinding you for the rest of the encounter. Characters within fifteen feet of you are dazzled for the rest of the encounter unless they make a Will save, DC (12 + Spell Level).

15|Lethal Backlash|The arcane energies you channel are more than your body can take, dealing 5d6 damage to you. Nothing can prevent this damage.

14|Power Failure|You must drain the power of one of your spells to successfully channel the spell flux. The DM chooses one of your currently-active spells (other than the one you just cast), which ends immediately.

13|Mana Drain|Your sorcerous power bleeds out of you in a moment of lost control. You lose a single spell slot of each level.

12|Psychic Shock|Your mind is overwhelmed by the power you invoke, stunning you for the next 1d4 rounds.

11|Spatial Rift|Your magic tears open a rift in space, teleporting you and your equipment to a square within (Spell Level x 100) feet, at the DM's choice. He cannot choose a destination that would be immediately lethal to you, but may choose to leave you in a harmful or dangerous environment.

10|Intoxicating Spell|You become literally intoxicated your own mystical puissance, taking a -2 penalty to Dexterity, Intelligence, and Wisdom for the rest of the encounter. In addition, make a Fortitude save at a DC of (12 + Spell Level). If you fail, you are nauseated for the next five rounds.

9|Arcane Dementia|You begin hallucinating for the duration of the encounter as magical power courses through your mind, with effects similar to a major image spell (no save allowed). The Dungeon Master dictates the exact details of the illusion, but cannot create on that will have automatically lethal results for your character.

8|Broken Attunement|Your spell interferes with a single magical item on your person, suppressing all of its magical properties for the rest of the encounter. The Dungeon Master chooses which magical item is affected (artifacts cannot be chosen).

7|Crucial Vulnerability|You are grievously weakened, taking a -10 penalty on all saving throws of a single type chosen by the Dungeon Master. This vulnerability lasts for the rest of the encounter.

6|Shapeflux|You are transformed into a creature of the Dungeon Master's choice, with effects equivalent to the polymorph spell. That creature's total Hit Dice cannot exceed your own. The transformation remains in place for a full day and cannot be reversed.

5|Aura of Animation|A number of mundane objects within one hundred yards of you come to life and begin attacking you and your allies, animated by your ambient magical power. The Dungeon Master may choose to animate 1d20 Small objects, 1d10 Medium objects, or 1d6 Large objects. After a minute, the animated objects revert to normal.

4|Planar Nemesis|You attract the malevolent attention of an outsider or similar extraplanar being whose alignment is opposed to yours, with a Challenge Rating no higher than 9. It may choose to instantly appear at any point within one hundred feet of you and begin attacking, or may choose to remain in its native plane, to begin plotting against you Regardless, the outsider's enmity cannot be ended except by killing it (although the DM may choose to make provisions for negotiating with it). Although the outsider's wrath is directed towards you alone, it will attack your allies if they attempt to defend you.

3|Arcane Betrayal|Your own magic turns against you. The Dungeon Master chooses a single one of your spells known, and forces you to cast it as free action. Although you cast the spell, its targets, effects, and other details are chosen by the DM, turning them you or your own allies. Spells that have expensive material components or experience point costs cannot be chosen, nor can spells of the highest level you are capable of casting.

2|Uncontrollable Magic|Your magic becomes unstable and fickle, refusing to obey your commands. For the rest of the encounter, all sorcerer spells you cast have a 20% chance of having no effect whatsoever. Spell slots and components are still consumed normally.

1|Soulfire Conflagration|A conflagration of arcane energy erupts within you, burning your flesh and scarring your soul. You immediately fall to -1 hp and gain two negative levels. The negative levels disappear after a day, carrying no risk of permanent level loss, but cannot be removed by any means.
[/table]





Share the Gift:
A Twentieth level Sorcerer can choose to impart they're own life energies into the creation of a book, a collection of experiences, and details on what they felt and how they went about being the best sorcerer they can be.
Creating the book takes two hours of dedication each day, for five months of game time and a donation of 10,000 xp which doesn't have to be paid for all at once.
The book then becomes a mini-Artifact, near indestructible, and generates its own detectable magical aura.
Any sorcerer can then read the book, reading the book requires a week of study. At the end of which time they gain 1000xp, and learn three new spells of any level which they add to they're Spell List, one of which can replace an existing spell. If they are a sorcerer. Anyone who is not a sorcerer, but including sorcerers, gain a permanent +1 untyped bonus to Knowledge: Arcana, History, or Religion, or what ever the DM feels appropriate for the particular npc who's life the reader just went over.

The creator gains 5xp when ever someone reads this book (Even long after the creator dies and is chill'n out int some afterlife somewhere or in some infernal prison), but otherwise does not benefit from it, let alone benefiting from reading his own book. A person can benefit from the same book only once, but nothings stopping a Sorcerer from writing up more then one. If a single book sits undisturbed for more then five months, and doesn't detect any intelligent creature passing within 15ft, the book disappears to reappear somewhere else, somewhere where sorcerers are more frequently found.
These books cannot be destroyed by anything less then two castings of a Wish/miracle spell.
Or: Being melted by acid after soaking completely submerged in holy or unholy water in the effects of a Hallowed or Unhallowed area dedicated to the book for thirty minutes. Acid melting must take place within five minutes after it leaves the water or -hallowed area.

Morph Bark
2011-05-30, 04:11 AM
Why would anyone want to take the Logical Sorcerer feat? Doublings the cost of Metamagic feats with nothing else to gain sounds hardly logical to me.

The_Admiral
2011-05-30, 05:06 AM
read further up it says this class can not apply any othe metamagic than the ones it gets from Naturally magical

Morph Bark
2011-05-30, 07:28 AM
read further up it says this class can not apply any othe metamagic than the ones it gets from Naturally magical

Didn't go over the rest of the class, but I see. That makes the feat slightly less useless.

AugustNights
2011-05-30, 08:01 AM
I really like the idea of a magical apprentice as an alternative to a familiar. Consider the concept yoink-ified.

As far as the class goes, a Spells table would be awfully handy.

Charisma modifier per spell level of spells known.
At the beginning that's pretty neat, but becomes very strong towards the higher levels, but then again I've never liked the extreme limitations on a Sorcerer's 9th level spells known. Then again 8+ is a lot, also, how does this interact with temporary boosts? Get a spell of Eagle's Splendor and does the sorcerer gain extra spells known? Do they change every time the sorcerer gains a temporary boost? What about with a continuous magical item?

9th level spells by level 20 feels late.

Its not something I would use, personally, but it looks like an interesting take on the sorcerer.

The_Admiral
2011-05-30, 09:29 AM
This seems less versatile than the SRD sorc and more blasty

Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 11:46 AM
Didn't go over the rest of the class, but I see. That makes the feat slightly less useless.

My Sorcerer's magic is ingrained, and natural. They just do. Their magic is not tangible and shape-able as it is in the hands of a Wizard.
A Wizard calculates, Prepares, and manipulates their spells much like fine tunning an engine.

The Sorcerer just does. They don't have the same feel for magic as the Wizard. Its all a foreign concept to them.
How is it useless when you have your few free floating metamagics already anyway? A free Eschew materials? Still?Silent and eventually Ignore Material components before the epic levels? Not to mention these few don't have level adjustment.


This seems less versatile than the SRD sorc and more blasty

No, No I don't see it.
SRD Sorc: Familiar... Spells.... Its more versatile. they just probably don't have as much spells, instead they have better features and can wear light armor with simple weapons. (and can wear armor pretty quickly due to Still spell that they get for free that they can shift to what ever spell they wanna cast as a swift action)


I really like the idea of a magical apprentice as an alternative to a familiar. Consider the concept yoink-ified.

As far as the class goes, a Spells table would be awfully handy.

I... cant make spell tables... when I do they always look long and messed up. and yea I did as well. You always see strapping young apprentices hitching around with the sorcerer in movies/shows/anime


Charisma modifier per spell level of spells known.
At the beginning that's pretty neat, but becomes very strong towards the higher levels, but then again I've never liked the extreme limitations on a Sorcerer's 9th level spells known. Then again 8+ is a lot, also, how does this interact with temporary boosts? Get a spell of Eagle's Splendor and does the sorcerer gain extra spells known? Do they change every time the sorcerer gains a temporary boost? What about with a continuous magical item?

No, they wouldn't get more spells from temp boosts like that. I suppose it it was made permanent however, I would allow it. same for effects that are simply continuous.


9th level spells by level 20 feels late.

Ye, but thats another defining characteristic from the Wizard?

Seerow
2011-05-30, 11:54 AM
This seems less versatile than the SRD sorc and more blasty

Really?


Each spell level they gain their Charisma modifier as number of known spells.

I'd argue getting something like 12-14 9th level spells known, even if it comes late, is WAY more versatility than a standard SRD sorcerer.

Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 12:05 PM
I'd argue getting something like 12-14 9th level spells known, even if it comes late, is WAY more versatility than a standard SRD sorcerer.


Isn't there a "- 1/2 spell level" somewhere? I'm sure I put that in there.

You'd have to have a Charisma score of 24 to cast ninth level spells, so if you have that that'd be... a +7 modifier. -1/2 spell level (round down) for three level nine spells.

Seerow
2011-05-30, 12:07 PM
Isn't there a "- 1/2 spell level" somewhere? I'm sure I put that in there.

You'd have to have a Charisma score of 24 to cast ninth level spells, so if you have that that'd be... a +7 modifier. -1/2 spell level (round down) for three level nine spells.

Apparently you did, and I didn't see it cause it was on the next line. Even there though, your Sorcerer likely has the +12-+14 charisma, not a +7, so you're still looking at 8-10 9th level spells known.

Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 12:12 PM
Meh. Limit?
"Class levels max -2 perspell level"
for a maximum.... of two 9th spells at level 20.... I dunno... Do we even care if they can cast a few ninth spells? naw.... :smallamused:

Seerow
2011-05-30, 12:21 PM
Meh. Limit?
"Class levels max -2 perspell level"
for a maximum.... of two 9th spells at level 20.... I dunno... Do we even care if they can cast a few ninth spells? naw.... :smallamused:

I was just pointing it out because someone said they have less versatility than an SRD sorcerer. Between free metamagic and more spells known, I'd say this easily outclasses the SRD sorc.


Actually looking at it again, I did read it right. Quoting the whole section:


Each spell level they gain their Charisma modifier as number of known spells. To cast a spell they must have a charisma of 15+spell level. Their saves are the same as standard spell saves, using their charisma modifier.
They can use 0 level spells at will, and other spells each a number of times a day equal to their Charisma modifier -1/2 spell level round down. They cannot ever change their spell set without the aid of some form of item, or outside magic

So the sorcerer with 34 charisma has 12 spells of every spell level known, and can cast every spell in their arsenal 8 times per day, if I'm reading that right. So yeah I'm actually going to change my original statement to "Wow that's way more powerful than even a wizard"

If the intent was for that to be charisma mod -1/2 spell level per spell level, rather than per spell, it's more in line with other casters (though still strong), but if that was the intent why not just have a spells per day chart as the standard sorcerer does?

Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 12:27 PM
I was just pointing it out because someone said they have less versatility than an SRD sorcerer. Between free metamagic and more spells known, I'd say this easily outclasses the SRD sorc.


Actually looking at it again, I did read it right. Quoting the whole section:



So the sorcerer with 34 charisma has 12 spells of every spell level known, and can cast every spell in their arsenal 8 times per day, if I'm reading that right. So yeah I'm actually going to change my original statement to "Wow that's way more powerful than even a wizard"

If the intent was for that to be charisma mod -1/2 spell level per spell level, rather than per spell, it's more in line with other casters (though still strong), but if that was the intent why not just have a spells per day chart as the standard sorcerer does?

Cha=+12
0-12
1-12
2-11
3-10
4-10
5-9
6-9
7-8
8-8
9-7

which is still kinda much I see...
-full spell level?

Seerow
2011-05-30, 12:31 PM
Cha=+12
0-12
1-12
2-11
3-10
4-10
5-9
6-9
7-8
8-8
9-7

which is still kinda much I see...
-full spell level?

The problem is, increasing the penalty hurts those who can't get that high charisma. For example, making it -full spell level means by level 20, if your sorcerer doesn't have 30 charisma, he can't cast a 9th level spell.


So I'm going to ask again: Why are you so desperate to make an alternative system for how many spell slots you get? I could understand if you were trying to make a more freeform system (ie cast each spell you know more times per day rather than sharing restriction across spell level, or a point based mana system), but if you're still keeping "You get this many spells of a given spell level" why not just stick with the normal spells per day chart? That way you get a decent amount of spells per day as a baseline, and it doesn't scale quite so ridiculously with stats to the point where you have a very small sweet spot where spells per day are where you want them.

Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 12:42 PM
che.. I made this cuz I was bored since no one was commending on my Evaluator, But now it seems to be getting more attention then my real class...

I can't make(format) spell charts. So I usually just say "As x" or describe something else.

The_Admiral
2011-05-30, 06:42 PM
No I mean this sorc can't stack up MM like how I regularly play a high level srd sorc

Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 06:43 PM
No I mean this sorc can't stack up MM like how I regularly play a high level srd sorc


MM ?

Moose Man
2011-05-30, 06:48 PM
Metamagic.

Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 06:50 PM
*facepalm*

Well, an Epic sorcerer could stack'em even better. As they're half spell adjustment..

Moose Man
2011-05-30, 06:51 PM
The pic is awesome btw.

The_Admiral
2011-05-30, 06:52 PM
ok now that makes it worth while

Cipherthe3vil
2011-05-30, 06:52 PM
The pic is awesome btw.


I try pretty hard to find the best representations of my creations.

Cipherthe3vil
2011-07-24, 07:39 AM
Fixed a lot.
Added real spellcasting. I couldn't make tables before, but now I'm a table-wiz.

gkathellar
2011-07-24, 08:15 AM
Gonna be picky. Brain is not functioning well enough to take in the whole picture.


Lemme put some duck tape on the situation:

I've got ducks in my ducts!


Source:

Demon, Infernal, Celestial and Dragon are not subtypes. You're looking for "Tanar'ri," "Baatezu," "Dragonblood," and "Good/Archon/Eladrin/Guardinal."


Naturally Magical:

This smacks of actually making the sorcerer worse. Now, in addition to doing metamagic poorly, you can only do particular crappy metamagic without paying a feat tax.


Spell Flux

Eh ... I didn't like Wild Surges on the 2E Wild Mage, I don't like them on the Wilder, and they kinda bug me here, too. d20 is already unpredictable enough.

Welknair
2011-07-24, 08:41 AM
What happens when your Apprentice reaches 5th level? Don't they then get an apprentice? This would mean that high-level Sorcerers end up forming Sorcerer chains. And imagine what this entails for power-leveling. Over the three months it takes you to go from level 1 to level 20 you gain four apprentices (well really you get one which gets one which gets one which...). Where do they come from? Why do they follow you? Was the PC's Sorcerer an Apprentice at some point? Do the Apprentices ever stop following their masters? Could another PC take a 1-level dip into Sorcerer to become the Apprentice of the main Sorcerer PC thus gaining all of the Familiar benefits, free Sorcerer levels and the ability to be easily resurrected?

I think this may need some clarification.

Cipherthe3vil
2011-07-24, 10:29 AM
I've got ducks in my ducts!

damn, all I get are snakes in my boots.


Demon, Infernal, Celestial and Dragon are not subtypes. You're looking for "Tanar'ri," "Baatezu," "Dragonblood," and "Good/Archon/Eladrin/Guardinal."

thanks.
the other one I didn't agree with, and the last was opinionated from personal dislike so it doesn't tell much on whether its fine or not.


What happens when your Apprentice reaches 5th level? Don't they then get an apprentice? This would mean that high-level Sorcerers end up forming Sorcerer chains. And imagine what this entails for power-leveling. Over the three months it takes you to go from level 1 to level 20 you gain four apprentices (well really you get one which gets one which gets one which...). Where do they come from? Why do they follow you? Was the PC's Sorcerer an Apprentice at some point? Do the Apprentices ever stop following their masters? Could another PC take a 1-level dip into Sorcerer to become the Apprentice of the main Sorcerer PC thus gaining all of the Familiar benefits, free Sorcerer levels and the ability to be easily resurrected?

I think this may need some clarification.
m'kay...

time to edit stuff's

NeoSeraphi
2011-07-24, 11:54 AM
Devils are not chaotic, they're lawful. (Devils are Infernal) Otherwise, this sorcerer enhancement looks in every way superior to the PHB sorcerer and I like it.

Six
2011-08-21, 02:54 PM
I...Adore this homebrew, and would probably like to try it out some time. :smallbiggrin: