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Surrealistik
2011-05-30, 07:51 PM
Starting with the big A:

Asmodeus, Lord of the Nine - Level 38 Solo Controller (Leader)
Medium immortal humanoid (devil, god) - 395,000 XP
HP & Defenses:
HP: 1778; Bloodied: 889 - Initiative: +34
AC: 52 Fortitude: 52 Reflex: 50 Will: 58
Perception: +37 Darkvision, Truesight 20
Speed: 8, fly 10 (hover), teleport 20
Immune: attacks by creatures below level 20, fire, poison
Resist: 30 necrotic, 30 psychic
Vulnerability: 20 radiant
Saving Throws: +5 (+10 versus Charm, Fear, Illusion and Psychic effects)
Action Points: 2
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Traits:
Aura of Infernal Majesty * Aura 10
Enemies within the aura lose immunity to charm, fear, necrotic and psychic effects, take a -5 penalty to saving throws against them, and a -2 penalty to their Will defense. Enemies that lose an immunity in this way do not take this penalty to their Will defense against attacks with that immunity's keyword. Allies within the aura gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls and deal +5 extra damage.

All is as Foreseen
Asmodeus cannot be surprised, and his initiative check result in any combat is equal to the highest rolled result + 5 after all modifiers and bonuses have been applied. A creature that rolls 45 or higher on their initiative check acts before any of his summoned devils in the first round.

Master of Puppets
An enemy dominated by Asmodeus counts as his ally whenever he chooses, provides cover to and flanks with Asmodeus and his allies instead of its allies, makes opportunity attacks against its allies instead of Asmodeus and his allies, and has its normal complement of actions. Asmodeus still chooses all actions for that enemy.
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Standard Actions:
Melee Basic; Soulreaving Strike (charm, necrotic, psychic, weapon) * At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +41 vs. Fortitude or Will
Hit: 6d12 + 6 necrotic and psychic damage. The target takes ongoing 15 necrotic and psychic damage and is dominated (save ends both).
Miss: Half damage, and the target is knocked prone.

Ranged Basic; Ruby Rod of Asmodeus (implement, necrotic) * At-Will
Attack: Ranged 40 (one creature, and each enemy providing cover to that creature); +41 vs. Fortitude or Reflex
Hit: 5d12 + 6 acid, cold, fire or lightning and necrotic damage. If Asmodeus does not have the Ruby Rod of Asmodeus, he can only choose to deal fire damage in this way. The target is subject to the following effects depending on the type of damage chosen:


Acid: The target takes a -4 penalty to all defenses and ongoing 15 acid and necrotic damage (save ends both).
Each Failed Save: The penalty increases by -2 and the ongoing damage increases by 5.
Cold: The target is immobilized and takes ongoing 10 cold and necrotic damage (save ends both).
First Failed Save: The target is restrained and can't take actions instead of being immobilized (save ends all).
Second Failed Save: The target is petrified instead of restrained and being unable to take actions. Instead of resistance from the petrified condition, it gains vulnerable 20 to force, thunder and untyped damage (save ends all).
Each Failed Save: The ongoing damage increases by 5.
Fire: The target can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points and takes ongoing 20 fire and necrotic damage (save ends both).
Each Failed Save: The ongoing damage increases by 10.
Lightning: The target is dazed, immobilized and weakened (save ends all).

Miss: Half damage.
Special: This power can be used as a close blast 10 attack, targeting each enemy in the blast.

Imperious Edict of Asmodeus (charm) * Recharge 5+ or when first bloodied
Attack: Close Burst 20 (up to ten creatures in the burst other than Asmodeus); +41 vs. Will (Asmodeus doesn't make an attack roll against allies)
Hit: The target stands from prone, then Asmodeus slides the target its speed + 2, and forces the target to make an at-will attack as a free action. Asmodeus makes all decisions for that attack. If the target is an enemy, it is then knocked prone and dazed (save ends).
Miss: The target is knocked prone.

Crushing Will of Asmodeus (charm) * Recharge 6+ or when first bloodied
Attack: Close Burst 20 (each enemy in burst); +41 vs. Will
Hit: The target is dominated (save ends).

Aftereffect: The target is knocked prone and dazed (save ends).
Miss: The target is knocked prone and dazed (save ends).
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Minor Actions:
Imperious Command of Asmodeus (charm) * At-Will
Attack: Close Burst 20 (one creature in the burst other than Asmodeus); +41 vs. Will (Asmodeus doesn't make an attack roll against allies)
Hit: Asmodeus has the target stand from prone, slides it its speed + 2, and forces it to make an at-will attack as a free action. Asmodeus makes all decisions for that attack. If the target is an enemy, it is then knocked prone and dazed (save ends).
Miss: The target is knocked prone.

Imperious Summons of Asmodeus * At-Will (1/round)
Effect: Close Burst 20; Up to 5 devil minions or 1 devil standard of Asmodeus' level or lower appear in unoccupied squares within the burst. Asmodeus can destroy 5 devil minions or 1 devil standard to summon a devil elite instead, or can destroy 20 devil minions, 4 devil standards or 2 devil elites to summon a devil solo instead. These devils remain until they are slain or Asmodeus dismisses them as a free action, and take their turns in any order immediately after Asmodeus.

Usurp the Soul (charm) * At-Will
Attack: Close Burst 20 (one creature in the burst dominated by Asmodeus); +41 vs. Will
Hit: The target is soulbound (save ends). While soulbound, the target is dominated, the target's allies instead count as its enemies, Asmodeus and his allies count as the target's allies instead of enemies, and Asmodeus can force the target to use Recharge and Encounter powers.

First Failed Saving Throw: Asmodeus can force the target to use Daily powers.
Second Failed Saving Throw: The soulbound effect is permanent until Asmodeus is destroyed.
Each Failed Saving Throw: Until this effect ends, the target takes a cumulative -2 penalty to saving throws against effects from Asmodeus that target Will, and its Will defense against attacks made by Asmodeus.

Special: The target cannot be attacked by this power again until the start of Asmodeus' next turn.

Consume the Soul (healing) * At-Will
Effect: Close burst 20 (a permanently soulbound creature or devil in the burst other than Asmodeus); The target dies. For every 100 hit points the target has remaining, Asmodeus makes a saving throw to end an effect active on him (even an effect that normally doesn't end on a save), and rolls to recharge a power. If the target is not a devil, Asmodeus regains hit points equal to the target's remaining hit points. A creature slain in this way cannot be brought back to life by any means until Asmodeus is destroyed.
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Triggered Actions:
Blood of Infernal Genesis * At-Will
Trigger: An enemy deals damage to Asmodeus while he is bloodied
Effect (No Action): A pit fiendling minion appears in an unoccupied square closest to Asmodeus of his choice. The fiendling takes its turn immediately after Asmodeus and remains until slain.

Divine Discorporation * Encounter
Trigger: Asmodeus is bloodied.
Effect (No Action): Asmodeus discorporates. If Asmodeus cannot discorporate, and he has the Ruby Rod of Asmodeus, he instead ends all effects active on him of his choice, regains all hit points, and gains immunity to all damage and effects until the end of his next turn.

Glowering Wrath of Asmodeus (fear, fire, psychic) * At-Will
Trigger: An enemy hits or deals damage to Asmodeus.
Attack (Immediate Reaction): (the triggering enemy) +41 vs. Will
Hit: 7d12 + 6 fire and psychic damage, and the target must run as a free action, ending its movement as far away from Asmodeus as possible. The target is then knocked prone and is stunned (save ends).
Miss: Half damage. The target is knocked prone and is dazed (save ends).

Immortal Resilience * At-Will
Trigger: Asmodeus is subjected to an enemy effect with a conditional duration
Effect (No Action): Asmodeus makes a saving throw to end the effect, even if that effect doesn't normally end on a save.
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Skills & Attributes:
Skills: Arcana +40, Bluff +43, Diplomacy +43, Dungeoneering +37, History +37, Insight +37, Intimidate +43, Nature +40, Religion +40
Str: 30 (+29) - Dex: 28 (+28) - Wis: 36 (+32)
Con: 30 (+29) - Int: 42 (+35) - Cha: 48 (+38)
Alignment: Evil - Languages: All, Telepathy 100
Equipment: +6 Magic Robes, +6 Ruby Rod of Asmodeus


<br>


Fluff: Legion Devil Throneguards are those few prestigious and ascended members of the Legion Devils, the best of the best, the very most elite of Baator's rank and file that have implausibly managed to garner the personal attentions and favour of Asmodeus himself through their strength, cunning, martial skill, and above all, unfailing devotion and loyalty to the Lord of Sin. Each of their number wields ornate, powerfully enchanted and custom forged armour and weaponry comprised of the very finest materials and craftsmanship available in all of the Nine Hells. These ascended legionnaires are furthermore imbued with a small fragment of the Dark Lord's might, rendering them utterly impervious to mental subversion or harm from lesser foes. Collectively, they are known and referred to as Asmodeus' Chosen, and are typically given a wide berth in infernal society, lest the unforgiving wrath of their patron be tempted.

Asmodeus trusts these elite warriors implicitly, and they are thus granted the prestigious and utmost honour of watching over his throne, guarding his most valued possessions and captives, or even serving as personal bodyguards to their infernal regent. As might be inferred, a Throneguard is an irrevocable zealot, and knows no better or more desirable fate than to lay down his life in service to Asmodeus.

Physically Throneguards closely resemble their unelevated peers, though they are vastly larger and more muscular, each encompassed by a silhouette of roiling black hellfire that wavers and flows with their motions. Though handsome, their countenances are invariably stern and penetrating, with glowering eyes like backlit, sanguine ruby, locked in a state of perpetual vigilance. Perhaps most notably, huge bat-like wings of ebony flame span wide from their backs, enabling them to fly about at high speeds.

Tactics: In battle the Throneguard impale foes with their enchanted Hellglaves, locking them in place for comrades to flank and swarm over, exploiting the Squad Offense trait whenever possible. So long as they have a creature impaled, they will resort to using their Hellfire Bolts instead. Throneguards will also seek to bunch up and employ their Squad Defense trait when opportune, so long as their opponents aren't too heavy on area of effect attacks; they are highly intelligent and tactical foes, and will not make easy targets of themselves for enemies that have such powers.

If an enemy is too far away to engage in melee, the Throneguard will often advance in a bunched phalanx formation, unleashing a salvo of Hellfire Bolts in the process. The Throneguard focus their fire on the greatest threats, most often opting to lower the target's defenses, unless the target happens to be particularly hard hitting, has lots of blast/burst attacks, or is focusing attacks on their ward. They will also fire upon completely surrounded opponents, lacking other options. In the event of ranged opponents, they will attempt to position themselves such that the object or creature they've been assigned to protect gains cover while they maintain their advance as above.

Though Throneguards are fearless zealots, they are prudent combatants, and will tend not engage in melee an enemy incapable of both flight, and attacking them at a distance. These foes they prefer to kill by remaining aloft and out of reach while bombarding them from afar, unless this would compromise the protection afforded to their ward. They will also choose to employ ambushes whenever possible and beneficial, demonstrating a steadfast appreciation of advantageous tactics indivisible from their characters; a quality that has likely enabled them to rise to their vaunted station in the first place.

Legion Devil Throneguard - Level 38 Minion Soldier
Large immortal humanoid (devil) - 19,750 XP
HP & Defenses:
HP: 1 (a missed attack never damages a minion)
Initiative: +37
AC: 59 Fortitude: 53 Reflex: 48 Will: 52
Perception: +32 Darkvision, Truesight 5
Speed: 8, fly 10 (hover), teleport 6
Immune: Charm, Fear
Resist: 15 all, 30 fire, 30 poison, 30 psychic
Vulnerability: none
Saving Throws: +0
Action Points: 0
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Traits:
Favoured of Asmodeus
The legion devil is never subject to damage or effects from any source other than an attack that hits.

Squad Tactics
The legion devil gains a +2 bonus to its defenses and doesn't grant combat advantage when adjacent to at least one other ally with this trait, and gains a +2 bonus to its attack rolls and deals 5 extra damage to enemies flanked by allies with this trait.
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Standard Actions:
Melee Basic; Hellglaive (weapon) * At-Will
Attack: Melee 2 (one creature); +43 vs. AC
Hit: 24 damage. The target is marked, grabbed, can't teleport and takes ongoing 15 damage (until escape or the legion devil attacks another creature with this power).

Ranged Basic; Hellfire Bolt (fire, necrotic) * At-Will
Attack: Ranged 20 (one creature); +43 vs. Reflex
Hit: 24 fire and necrotic damage. The target takes a -2 penalty to all defenses or attack rolls until the end of the legion devil's next turn.
Special: This power does not provoke opportunity attacks.
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Triggered Actions:
Retaliatory Strike * At-Will (1/round)
Trigger: A creature hits or misses the legion devil, or makes an attack that does not include the legion devil as a target while marked by it
Effect (Free Action): The legion devil makes a basic attack against the triggering creature with a +2 bonus to the attack roll. This attack deals 5 extra damage.

Sacrifice of the Throneguard * At-Will
Trigger: An adjacent ally is the target of an attack that does not include the legion devil as a target.
Effect (Immediate Interrupt): The legion devil is the target of the triggering attack instead of the targeted ally.
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Skills & Attributes:
Skills: Acrobatics +32, Athletics +34, Endurance +32, Insight +32, Stealth +32
Str: 30 (+29) - Dex: 26 (+27) - Wis: 26 (+27)
Con: 26 (+27) - Int: 18 (+23) - Cha: 26 (+27)
Alignment: Evil - Languages: Supernal, Telepathy 10
Equipment: +6 Hellforged Plate, +6 Hellglaive (discorporates on death)





Pit Fiendling - Level 30 Minion Soldier
Small immortal humanoid (devil) - 4,750 XP
HP & Defenses:
HP: 1 (a missed attack never damages a minion)
Initiative: +23
AC: 43 Fortitude: 40 Reflex: 39 Will: 39
Perception: +26 Darkvision
Speed: 10, fly 10 (hover), teleport 8
Immune: None
Resist: 30 fire, 15 poison
Vulnerability: none
Saving Throws: +0
Action Points: 0
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Standard Actions:
Melee Basic; Claw Swipe * At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +37 vs. AC
Hit: 15 damage.

Tail Sting (poison) * At-Will
Attack: Melee 2 (one creature); +37 vs. AC
Hit: 11 damage and ongoing 10 poison damage (save ends).

Fusion of Fiends (polymorph) * At-Will
Effect: Close burst 1 (the pit fielding and 3 other pit fiendling allies in the burst) The targets disappear, merging into a Pit Fiend Captain that appears in unoccupied squares nearest the user. This Pit Fiend Captain has the same initiative as the fiendling and doesn't act until the next round.
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Triggered Actions:
Death Flail * At-Will
Trigger: The fiendling is dropped to 0 hit points or fewer.
Effect (Free Action): The fiendling makes a claw swipe and tail sting attack.
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Skills & Attributes:
Skills: None.
Str: 28 (+24) - Dex: 22 (+21) - Wis: 22 (+21)
Con: 22 (+21) - Int: 22 (+21) - Cha: 22 (+21)
Alignment: Evil - Languages: Supernal
Equipment: None.

Vendevor
2011-05-31, 11:42 AM
Dang my lev. 23 Ranger could take him with his allies

Surrealistik
2011-05-31, 11:53 AM
What methods would you use to defeat his obvious opener?

1st turn (always goes first):


Crushing Will (this would pretty much auto-hit any L23 character, likely dominating the entire party, doubly so if in the aura which applies a -5 penalty to the Will defense)
+ Usurp the Soul on a dominated leader or striker/controller
+ Imperious Summons
+ AP
+ Imperious Edict (focus firing anyone who isn't dominated and a threat with all the summoned devils which can be solos, and the dominated PCs. Each has a +5 bonus to their attack and damage rolls).


Also note that the moment he is bloodied he regains his HP as no action, ends all effects active on him of his choice, recharges all of his powers, and becomes invincible until the end of his next turn (unless you somehow managed to steal away the Ruby Rod, which is advisable).

I'd like to know of any loopholes that would enable a (relatively) lowbie party (even an optimized one!) to defeat him so as to improve the design.

vasharanpaladin
2011-05-31, 07:15 PM
Dang my lev. 23 Ranger could take him with his allies

Divine Discorporation says: "When I'm bloodied, the fight ends and you get absolutely nothing out of it but wasted resources."

To say nothing of, as Surrealistik said, Asmodeus will go first, period, and your poor glass cannon of a ranger is going to end up broken before he can move.

Speaking of which, as there are no disarm rules, it should be assumed that Asmo will always have his glorified wand in hand. That effect should probably be revised.:smallwink:

Surrealistik
2011-05-31, 10:02 PM
Stealing away the Ruby Rod is more intended as a quest objective than something you actually do in a combat (just like meeting his discorporation prevention conditions).

vasharanpaladin
2011-06-01, 04:06 PM
Stealing away the Ruby Rod is more intended as a quest objective than something you actually do in a combat (just like meeting his discorporation prevention conditions).

Ah, right. Still a right nasty thing to do, tho. But we expect nothing less from the lord of Hell itself. :smallcool:

137ben
2011-06-01, 04:15 PM
Yea, divine discorporation basically functions as plot armor. At the end of a campaign, he might be willing to fight until the bitter end (or good end, as the case may be). But if the PCs encounter him too early...then his discorporation may actually save the PCs, as at a lower level they probably wouldn't survive the second half of the fight.

Surrealistik
2011-06-01, 06:11 PM
Yeah, basically Asmodeus (and other enemies to follow), are meant to be defeatable only with a minimum 4-5 man party of optimized level 30+ characters, and even then perhaps only after having undertaken epic prefacing/set up quests. If you can even bloody Asmodeus before the high epic levels, there is either a flaw in the monster's design, or you're using an especially broken (theory-optimized) character/dynamic.

Just_Ice
2011-06-01, 06:21 PM
That's a nasty piece of work.

It seems the only option is really a control-happy ranged slug-fest (using radiant) with tons of healing and recovery, and a painful one at that. While someone's definitely going to get dominated anyways, that aura smarts. The rod's ranged attack is also pretty evil. Pure damage and pushes are definitely the way to go, since effects are basically meaningless against it.

Most parties will be screwed inside of the first turn, particularly underleveled ones.

I can't remember if there's anything that reflects attacks, but you can have him devour his own soul if that's the case.

EDIT: I can't remember what dominate was errata'd to do, but in its original form if you somehow managed to dominate him you could have him devour his own soul. Delicious!

Surrealistik
2011-06-01, 06:47 PM
Ah, good catch on Consume the Soul; it does need anti-self abuse language.

It's possible to employ effects on Asmodeus; it's just difficult, and requires throwing every saving throw debuff effect you can manage at him. Even if you can scrounge just a 'free' turn or two out of an effect/save debuff nova like this, it's definitely worth the investment.

Surrealistik
2011-06-02, 10:29 AM
Revisions:


Imperious Summons of Asmodeus: Changed so that it's clearer and more consistent with summoning powers of past precedent.
Glowering Wrath of Asmodeus: Now slides instead of pushes.
Consume the Soul: Target language updated so Asmodeus can't target himself.
Aura of Infernal Majesty: Changed to include the Necrotic keyword, as the effects of the aura are as spiritual as they are mental (and it would synergize with the Rod more readily).

Surrealistik
2011-06-02, 01:02 PM
Added the epic minion, the Legion Devil Throneguard for use with Asmodeus' summons, complete with fluff and tactics.

Surrealistik
2011-06-02, 11:04 PM
Added the epic minion Pit Fiendling; these are created when Asmodeus takes damage while bloodied.

Surrealistik
2011-06-03, 11:02 PM
Alright, if there's no other fixes/feedback to be done for Asmodeus and his associated minions, I'll be moving onto the next evil deity.

Any requests? I'm thinking Shar so far.

Lemonus
2011-06-04, 05:52 AM
Tharizdun would be nice to see.

Also, great job on what you have so far. I love it.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-06-04, 05:54 PM
I'm glad to see someone else doing 4e monsters. I really like the pit fiendling.

gurban
2011-06-05, 04:07 AM
If you're going to be doing more of these would you take a request? In my campaign, the antagonist gods are Erathis and The Traveller. They have gone renegade from the major pantheon, and are going to try and wipe out the good guys. Level 38 might be a little high for my group.

Yakk
2011-06-05, 10:06 AM
Good job. What follows is purely critical, but don't take it as a "that wasn't awesome". :)


Aura of Infernal Majesty * Aura 10
Enemies within the aura do not benefit from any immunity to charm, fear, necrotic and psychic effects, take a -5 penalty to their Will defense, and a -5 penalty to saving throws against charm, fear, necrotic and psychic effects. Allies within the aura gain a +5 bonus to attack rolls and deal +5 extra damage.
This is a boring veto aura. If you are going to veto charm/fear/necrotic/psychic immunity, at least turn it into resistance and/or a defence bonus.

All is as Foreseen
Asmodeus cannot be surprised, and his initiative check result in any combat is equal to the highest rolled result + 5 after all modifiers and bonuses have been applied.
Also boring.

Why I call it "boring" is that it nullifies the choices and resources that the player uses, instead of mitigating against them. Mitigate away -- that's good. But a character with high initiative should gain some benefit -- as written, any investment into initiative bonuses is worth zero in this fight.

And that is a boring veto.

Master of Puppets
An enemy dominated by Asmodeus counts as his ally whenever he chooses, provides cover to and flanks with Asmodeus and his allies instead of its allies, makes opportunity attacks against its allies instead of Asmodeus and his allies, and has its normal complement of actions. Asmodeus still chooses all actions for that enemy.
This one is not of the same kind, and is interesting.

...

Normalized defences:
AC: 14 Fortitude: 14 Reflex: 12 Will: 20
That is out of band for a level 38 monster.

14/12/12/14 is normal for a level 38 monster. Giving an already barely-in-reach monster another +6 to a defence is strong, but boring.



Acid: The target takes a -5 penalty all defenses and ongoing 15 acid and necrotic damage (save ends both).
Cold: The target is immobilized and takes ongoing 20 cold and necrotic damage (save ends both).
Fire: The target can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points and takes ongoing 20 fire and necrotic damage (save ends both).
Each Failed Save: The ongoing damage increases by 10.
Lightning: The target is dazed, immobilized and weakened (save ends all).

Cold is far too weak.

...

And speaking of which, your damage expressions are ridiculously low for a level 38. 46 average is for a normal level 38 monster -- this is a solo, so you should be doing 2-3 (pre-bloodied) to 3-4 (post-bloodied) that much damage. (minus 25% if area attack)

Miss: The target is knocked prone.
This is too common. And it means that "immune to being knocked prone" (or effective immunity) is overly useful.

Imperious Summons of Asmodeus * Recharge when Asmodeus has no devils summoned by this power remaining or when first bloodied
Effect: Close Burst 20; Up to 20 devil minions of Asmodeus' level or lower appear in unoccupied squares within the burst, and take their turns in any order immediately after Asmodeus. Asmodeus can choose to replace 5 minions with a devil standard, 10 minions with a devil elite, or 20 minions with a devil solo. These devils remain until they are slain. Asmodeus can dismiss any number of these devils as a free action.
First, bad choices are no choices. You'd use this always on a solo, because it refreshes whenever the solo dies. This means if Asmodeus isn't an idiot, Asmodeus is actually two level 38 solos (or whatever the 2nd highest devil solo is). And if the other creature has a similar ability (etc), Asmodeus is aleph-naught solos.

In short: A level X solo shouldn't be two level X solos.


The target is soulbound (save ends). While soulbound, the target is dominated, the target's allies instead count as its enemies
Sloppy. You already granted that property earlier.

and Asmodeus can force the target to use Recharge and Encounter powers.
... meh.

Consume the Soul
I'd tie this to the Summons power. Ie, Asmodeus gets to summon a small army of minions, and conume their souls, in such a way that placing save ends conditions on Asmodeus is one way to deal with the swarm of allies Asmodeus has.

Surrealistik
2011-06-05, 10:32 AM
This is a boring veto aura. If you are going to veto charm/fear/necrotic/psychic immunity, at least turn it into resistance and/or a defence bonus.

Thinking defense bonuses. The main point of the aura though is to synergize with dominated PCs, save ends effects, and the devil minions.

The fix so far:

"Enemies within the aura lose immunity to charm, fear, necrotic and psychic effects, take a -5 penalty to their Will defense, and a -5 penalty to saving throws against charm, fear, necrotic and psychic effects. Enemies that lose an immunity in this way do not take this penalty to their Will defense against attacks with that immunity's keyword. Allies within the aura gain a +5 bonus to attack rolls and deal +5 extra damage."


Why I call it "boring" is that it nullifies the choices and resources that the player uses, instead of mitigating against them. Mitigate away -- that's good. But a character with high initiative should gain some benefit -- as written, any investment into initiative bonuses is worth zero in this fight.

I'm not sure how I'd 'reward' high initiative without completely obviating the point of the trait. Asmodeus is supposed to go first, period. This is what I've got so far:

"A creature that rolls 45 or higher on their initiative check acts before any of his summoned devils in the first round."

It's also worth noting that not every investment will be useful in every combat.


Normalized defences:
AC: 14 Fortitude: 14 Reflex: 12 Will: 20
That is out of band for a level 38 monster.

14/12/12/14 is normal for a level 38 monster. Giving an already barely-in-reach monster another +6 to a defence is strong, but boring.

+6 is within the accepted adjustment range (-3/+6) for a creature. Remember, the encounter is designed with a totally twinked out (but not brokenly theory optimized) L30 party in mind.


Cold is far too weak.

Noted. Added save failure effects.


And speaking of which, your damage expressions are ridiculously low for a level 38. 46 average is for a normal level 38 monster -- this is a solo, so you should be doing 2-3 (pre-bloodied) to 3-4 (post-bloodied) that much damage. (minus 25% if area attack)

I'm going purely by the off-line Adventure Tools monster builder numbers which are auto-generated. It's worth noting though that the vast majority of A's damage won't be coming from his own attacks, so much as the PCs he dominates and his minions via his edicts/commands, and Soulbinding.

If you have the updated guidelines/math for damage scaling, I would like to see it.


This is too common. And it means that "immune to being knocked prone" (or effective immunity) is overly useful.

Prone countermeasures are expected (as is anti-daze, dominate and stun, and lots of saving throw granters); as a miss effect it is also supposed to be weaker.


First, bad choices are no choices. You'd use this always on a solo, because it refreshes whenever the solo dies. This means if Asmodeus isn't an idiot, Asmodeus is actually two level 38 solos (or whatever the 2nd highest devil solo is). And if the other creature has a similar ability (etc), Asmodeus is aleph-naught solos.

In short: A level X solo shouldn't be two level X solos.

Yes, I recognize the issue, and was actually kicking around some ideas to address this issue yesterday. One idea that comes to mind is replacing the 'when 0 devils remaining' recharge condition with something like recharging after he permanently Soulbinds a character, or uses Consume the Soul on one. I'm still mulling over the possibilities.

Recursive loops definitely can't happen though given the current solos available; I was careful about that. Obviously Asmodeus can't summon a copy of himself.

Personally I'm not so sure I agree with forbidding a solo summon entirely.


Sloppy. You already granted that property earlier.

No, I didn't. Look closely at the language of Master of Puppets; _Asmodeus_ can consider the dominated creature an ally at will, but the dominated creature still invariably considers him an enemy for the purpose of powers and effects.


... meh.

Heh, Grazzt has a similar capability. The best I can do is tie it into the first failed saving throw, but that would substantially weaken the initial impact of Usurp the Soul.


I'd tie this to the Summons power. Ie, Asmodeus gets to summon a small army of minions, and conume their souls, in such a way that placing save ends conditions on Asmodeus is one way to deal with the swarm of allies Asmodeus has.

What did you mean specifically? This is already an option. Also, Consume the Soul must permit Asmodeus to devour soulbound enemies.



If you're going to be doing more of these would you take a request? In my campaign, the antagonist gods are Erathis and The Traveller. They have gone renegade from the major pantheon, and are going to try and wipe out the good guys. Level 38 might be a little high for my group.

Sure, what level did you have in mind?

Yakk
2011-06-06, 02:15 PM
Thinking defense bonuses. The main point of the aura though is to synergize with dominated PCs, save ends effects, and the devil minions.

The fix so far:

"Enemies within the aura lose immunity to charm, fear, necrotic and psychic effects, take a -5 penalty to their Will defense, and a -5 penalty to saving throws against charm, fear, necrotic and psychic effects. Enemies that lose an immunity in this way do not take this penalty to their Will defense against attacks with that immunity's keyword. Allies within the aura gain a +5 bonus to attack rolls and deal +5 extra damage."
Instead of a -5 penalty, how about a roll twice approach?

Ie, attacks by asmodeus' side gets to roll twice on will attacks, taking the best result. Defenders have to roll twice on each save, taking the worst result. Defenders who are are immune to (list) are not considered immune, but the roll twice does not occur.

Why? Because rolling twice is fun!

I'm not sure how I'd 'reward' high initiative without completely obviating the point of the trait. Asmodeus is supposed to go first, period. This is what I've got so far:

"A creature that rolls 45 or higher on their initiative check acts before any of his summoned devils in the first round."
How about the old "split asmodeus's turn" trick? Give asmodeus a ridiculously high starting initiative count, and others at lower counts.

This also lets you reduce the power of each action of Asmodeus down a bit, and reduces the need for ridiculously high damage output per-action.

If Asmodeus got a standard action at 80, 60, 40 and 20, and a move at 70, 50, 30, 10, and a minor every 10... Asmodeus would go first, but you wouldn't nullify the advantage of a high initiative count!

+6 is within the accepted adjustment range (-3/+6) for a creature. Remember, the encounter is designed with a totally twinked out (but not brokenly theory optimized) L30 party in mind.
Meh, if you are going to give a monster all above-average defences and accuracy, just level the monster up. Why say it is a level 38 monster with level 40+ attacks and defences?


If you have the updated guidelines/math for damage scaling, I would like to see it.
Level+7 or 8 is the Monster Vault/MM3 standard. +25% for brutes, -25% for area attacks.

You'll note that if you use the "4 turns" trick above, each turn can be a standard monster attack...

Prone countermeasures are expected (as is anti-daze, dominate and stun, and lots of saving throw granters); as a miss effect it is also supposed to be weaker.
*nod* -- except, switch it up! Prone, immobilized, pushed, dazed, slowed -- having the same "miss" effect is boring.


Yes, I recognize the issue, and was actually kicking around some ideas to address this issue yesterday. One idea that comes to mind is replacing the 'when 0 devils remaining' recharge condition with something like recharging after he permanently Soulbinds a character, or uses Consume the Soul on one. I'm still mulling over the possibilities.

Recursive loops definitely can't happen though given the current solos available; I was careful about that. Obviously Asmodeus can't summon a copy of himself.

Personally I'm not so sure I agree with forbidding a solo summon entirely.
Why not give him a fixed set of monsters he summons instead? Or a fixed set of options.

ie, 10 minions, 1 standard and 1 elite.

If the elite falls, he can replace it with a standard. If both the standard and elite and the elite's replacement fall, he can replace it with a single standard. When that one falls, Asmodeus has to take a rest to summon more non-minons. Otherwise, Asmodeus can summon 1 minion (so long as he has less than 10). Once per turn (which he has 8 per round, remember).

This is a seeming unending supply of allies for Asmodeus to deal with, but it doesn't completely nullify killing of Asmodeus's allies instantly -- drop that elite, and it is only replaced with a standard. Kill all 10 minions, and they take time to come back.

Surrealistik
2011-06-06, 07:49 PM
Instead of a -5 penalty, how about a roll twice approach?

Ie, attacks by asmodeus' side gets to roll twice on will attacks, taking the best result. Defenders have to roll twice on each save, taking the worst result. Defenders who are are immune to (list) are not considered immune, but the roll twice does not occur.

Why? Because rolling twice is fun!

Problem with worst of two saving throws as opposed to a straight -5? The former yields a net higher chance of success as saving throw bonuses are factored. At a reasonable assumption of a +2-4 bonus for twinked characters (it can get _really_ insane with Tieflings that have Iron Discipline) the difference is significant (e.g. 60% vs 57.75% for +2, 50% vs 43.75% for +4).


How about the old "split asmodeus's turn" trick? Give asmodeus a ridiculously high starting initiative count, and others at lower counts.

This also lets you reduce the power of each action of Asmodeus down a bit, and reduces the need for ridiculously high damage output per-action.

If Asmodeus got a standard action at 80, 60, 40 and 20, and a move at 70, 50, 30, 10, and a minor every 10... Asmodeus would go first, but you wouldn't nullify the advantage of a high initiative count!

Two problems here. The first is that it requires basically a redesign of the monster (given multiple standard actions). The other is that I want Asmodeus' actions to be monumental albeit infrequent; he may only have one set of actions, but when he moves, the earth should rumble and the sky should fall.


Meh, if you are going to give a monster all above-average defences and accuracy, just level the monster up. Why say it is a level 38 monster with level 40+ attacks and defences?

Levelling it up means increasing everything that comes with the level. Asmodeus' Will is the only truly exceptional defense he has besides (as it should be).


*nod* -- except, switch it up! Prone, immobilized, pushed, dazed, slowed -- having the same "miss" effect is boring.

I'll see what I can come up with. The idea of proning is compelled deference and prostration before Asmodeus' awesome might/will.


Why not give him a fixed set of monsters he summons instead? Or a fixed set of options.

ie, 10 minions, 1 standard and 1 elite.

If the elite falls, he can replace it with a standard. If both the standard and elite and the elite's replacement fall, he can replace it with a single standard. When that one falls, Asmodeus has to take a rest to summon more non-minons. Otherwise, Asmodeus can summon 1 minion (so long as he has less than 10). Once per turn (which he has 8 per round, remember).

This is a seeming unending supply of allies for Asmodeus to deal with, but it doesn't completely nullify killing of Asmodeus's allies instantly -- drop that elite, and it is only replaced with a standard. Kill all 10 minions, and they take time to come back.

This would require the above mentioned redesign. I'm not certain I like this specific idea, though a more iterative summoning with less stringent recharge requirements I do like.

Fix thus far:

Imperious Summons of Asmodeus * At-Will (1/round)
Effect: Close Burst 20; Up to 5 devil minions or 1 standard of Asmodeus' level or lower appear in unoccupied squares within the burst, and take their turns in any order immediately after Asmodeus. Asmodeus can kill 5 devil minions or 1 devil standard to summon a devil elite instead. Asmodeus can kill 20 devil minions, 4 devil standards or 2 devil elites to summon a devil solo instead. These devils remain until they are slain. Asmodeus can dismiss any number of these devils as a free action.

Yakk
2011-06-11, 10:17 PM
Your attacks are already almost all against Will, which you apply a -5 penalty to opponents defences, making them effectively the attacks of a level 43 monster.

Your defences are also, on average, above-typical for the monsters level. Sure, Will is the high one: but you can pay for low defences in one spot with higher elsewhere.

Ie, strip the -5 penalty aura, maybe add a "grant combat advantage" for vs will attacks, boost the monster's level by 3, give your dude a handful more HP, keep defences unchanged (as they are already about 3 points above standard on average overall), boost attack rolls by +3, and you have a level 41 monster that isn't "dishonest" in the sense of having a bunch of "above standard" bonuses to attacks and defences.

Defences goes from +2/+2/+0/+8 to -1/-1/-3/+5 -- ie, from massively above average, to slightly below average. After a 3 level bump.

Surrealistik
2011-06-13, 11:17 AM
Your attacks are already almost all against Will, which you apply a -5 penalty to opponents defences, making them effectively the attacks of a level 43 monster.

Yes, but that's contingent on being in the aura, which you can stay out of, shut down, or even be immune to.


Your defences are also, on average, above-typical for the monsters level. Sure, Will is the high one: but you can pay for low defences in one spot with higher elsewhere.

Lolth, another greater deity, has +3 to her AC, Reflex and Will defenses, for a total of +9 over the baseline for his level.

Asmodeus has +3 to his Fortitude, and +6 to his Will for a total of +9 over the baseline for this level; I don't think this is unreasonable.


Ie, strip the -5 penalty aura, maybe add a "grant combat advantage" for vs will attacks, boost the monster's level by 3, give your dude a handful more HP, keep defences unchanged (as they are already about 3 points above standard on average overall), boost attack rolls by +3, and you have a level 41 monster that isn't "dishonest" in the sense of having a bunch of "above standard" bonuses to attacks and defences.

Defences goes from +2/+2/+0/+8 to -1/-1/-3/+5 -- ie, from massively above average, to slightly below average. After a 3 level bump.

See above. I do think they're fairly honest both given past precedent, and the fact that the penalty is conditional, even if it's generally hard to avoid.

What do you think about the summons fix?


BTW I am putting together Tharizdun currently; so far stating him as a level 40 solo brute.

astrallite
2011-06-16, 07:19 PM
Would love to see more of these :D

Surrealistik
2011-09-18, 02:18 PM
Currently a WIP; there will be a second 'form'/stage Tharizdun transmutes into when this one is destroyed. The first form is primarily concerned with Tharizdun's dominion over madness, the second over destruction.


Tharizdun, the Black Sun - Level 40 Solo Brute, Stage 1
Gargantuan immortal humanoid (god) - 555,000 XP
HP & Defenses:
HP: 947; Bloodied: 473 - Initiative: +0 (see Entity of Shattered Time)
AC: 52 Fortitude: 52 Reflex: 52 Will: 56
Perception: +36 Darkvision, Truesight 20
Speed: 10, fly 20 (hover), teleport 20
Immune: attacks by creatures below level 20, disease, fear, poison
Resist: 20 all, 40 necrotic, psychic
Vulnerability: 40 radiant
Saving Throws: +5 (+10 versus dazed, stunned, dominated, Charm, Fear, Illusion, and Psychic effects)
Action Points: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traits:
Harbinger of Madness * Aura 20
Whenever a creature other than Tharizdun starts its turn in this aura, Tharizdun slides the target its speed and forces it to make an at-will attack, or charge a creature of Tharizdun's choice as a free action. Enemies within the aura lose immunity to charm and fear effects and psychic damage. A creature that loses one or more immunities in this way is not subject to the aura's other effects.

Entity of Shattered Time
Tharizdun doesn't roll initiative. Instead he has a turn on initiative counts 50, 30 and 10. At the end of each of these turns, Tharizdun makes a saving throw to end conditional effects that don't normally end on a saving throw. Tharizdun only makes one set of recharge rolls at the end of his last turn each round.

Fuelled by Destruction
Whenever Tharizdun drops a creature to 0 hit points or fewer, or a creature drops to 0 hit points or fewer while in Tharizdun's aura, that creature dies and cannot be revived by any means until Tharizdun is destroyed, and Tharizdun gains a charge counter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Actions:
Melee Basic; Touch of Ineffable Madness (necrotic, psychic) * At-Will
Attack: Melee 5 (one enemy); +43 vs. Will
Hit: 6d12 + 9 necrotic and psychic damage. The target is maddened (save ends, see addendum at bottom).

Tides of Madness * Recharge 5+ or when first bloodied
Attack: Close burst 20 (each creature in burst); +43 vs. Will
Hit: The target is maddened (save ends).
Miss: The target is dazed (save ends).

Halo of the Black Sun (necrotic, psychic) * Recharge 5+ or when first bloodied
Attack: Close burst 20 (each maddened creature in burst); +43 vs. Fortitude or Will
Hit: The target is corrupted (save ends, see addendum at bottom) instead of maddened.

Each Failed Save: The target takes a cumulative -2 penalty to saving throws against this effect until it ends (max -6).
Aftereffect: The target is maddened (save ends).

Miss: The target takes necrotic and psychic damage equal to its healing surge value. This damage cannot be reduced in any way.

Banish to Oblivion (necrotic, psychic) * Recharge 3+ or when first bloodied
Attack: Close Burst 20 (one creature in the burst); +43 vs. Will
Hit: The target is banished (save ends, see addendum at bottom), loses 1 healing surge and takes a -2 penalty to all saving throws made against this effect.

Each Failed Saving Throw: The target loses 1 healing surge. Until this effect ends, the target takes a cumulative -2 penalty (max -6) to saving throws against this effect.
Aftereffect: The target returns to play in an unoccupied square of Tharizdun's choice within 20 squares of Tharizdun and is corrupted (save ends).
Miss: Tharizdun teleports the target 20 squares and the target is maddened (save ends).
Special: Whenever this power would cause the target to lose a healing surge, if the target has no healing surges left, it instead takes necrotic and psychic damage equal to its healing surge value; this damage cannot be reduced in any way.

Obliterate * Recharge 6+ or when first bloodied
Requirement: Tharizdun must expend 3 charge counters.
Attack: Ranged 40 (one creature, and each creature granting cover to that creature); +43 vs. Fortitude; this attack ignores cover and superior cover
Hit: The target is dropped to its negative bloodied value and dies.
Miss: The target takes damage equal to its bloodied value, is knocked prone, and is dazed, slowed and weakened (save ends all).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minor Actions:
Countdown to Armageddon * At-Will (1/round)
Effect: Tharizdun gains a charge counter.

Sudden Madness * At-Will (1/turn)
Attack: Close Burst 20 (one creature in the burst); +43 vs. Will
Hit: The target is maddened (save ends).

Glare of the Black Sun * At-Will (1/turn)
Attack: Close Burst 20 (one maddened creature in the burst); +43 vs. Fortitude or Will
Hit: The target is corrupted (save ends).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Actions:
Ruinous Infusion * At-Will (1/turn)
Effect: Tharizdun expends any number of charge counters. For each charge counter expended in this way, he gains a +2 bonus to an attack roll, rolls to recharge a power, makes a saving throw to end an effect (even if that effect doesn't normally end on a save), or deals 25 extra damage.
Special: Once per use of this power, Tharizdun can take 50 damage in place of expending 1 charge counter. This damage can't be reduced in any way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Triggered Actions:
Aspect of Annihilation (force, thunder) * At-Will
Trigger: Tharizdun drops to 0 or fewer hit points.
Attack: Close Burst 20 (each creature in burst); +43 vs. Fortitude
Hit (No Action): 10d12 + 7 force and thunder damage. Tharizdun pushes the target 20 squares. The target is knocked prone, blinded, deafened and stunned until the end of Tharizdun's next turn.
Miss: Half damage. Tharizdun pushes the target 20 squares and the target is knocked prone and dazed until the end of Tharizdun's next turn.
Effect: Tharizdun changes into his Stage 2 form. All effects on Tharizdun end. Tharizdun retains all charge counters from his prior form. Each enemy of Tharizdun in the encounter can spend a healing surge and regain an encounter power of their choice or 6 power points.

Salvation to Destruction * At-Will
Trigger: A creature within Tharizdun's aura regains hit points, gains temporary hit points, or makes an extra saving throw
Attack: Close Burst 20 (the triggering creature); +43 vs. Fortitude
Hit (Immediate Interrupt): If the target is making an extra saving throw, that saving throw automatically fails, and counts as a failed saving throw for the purposes of effects. Otherwise, the target does not regain hit points or gain temporary hit points and takes necrotic damage equal to the amount of hit points or temporary hit points it would have gained. This damage cannot be reduced in any way.

Brush With Madness * At-Will (1/turn)
Trigger: An enemy hits or deals damage to Tharizdun.
Target: The triggering creature.
Effect (No Action): Tharizdun uses Touch of Ineffable Madness against the target as no action, even if the target is out of reach, and Tharizdun has no line of sight or effect to the target. This attack counts as a ranged attack, and ignores all penalties to its attack roll.

Immortal Resilience * At-Will
Trigger: Tharizdun is subjected to an effect with a conditional duration.
Effect (No Action): Tharizdun makes a saving throw to end the effect, even if that effect doesn't normally end on a save.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skills & Attributes:
Skills: Arcana +36, Athletics +46, Endurance +46, Bluff +36, History +38, Insight +36, Intimidate +36, Nature +36, Religion +36
Str: 53 (+41) - Dex: 23 (+29) - Wis: 33 (+31)
Con: 53 (+41) - Int: 33 (+31) - Cha: 33 (+31)
Alignment: Chaotic Evil - Languages: All, Telepathy 100
Equipment: None


Stage 2

Tharizdun, the Black Sun - Level 40 Solo Brute, Stage 2
Gargantuan immortal humanoid (god) - 0 XP
HP & Defenses:
HP: 947; Bloodied: 473 - Initiative: +0 (see Entity of Shattered Time)
AC: 52 Fortitude: 56 Reflex: 52 Will: 52
Perception: +36 Darkvision, Truesight 20
Speed: 10, fly 20 (hover), teleport 20
Immune: attacks by creatures below level 20, disease, fear, poison
Resist: 20 all, 40 force, necrotic
Vulnerability: 40 radiant
Saving Throws: +5 (+10 versus dazed, stunned, dominated, Charm, Fear, Illusion, and Psychic effects)
Action Points: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traits:
Harbinger of Oblivion * Aura 20
Whenever Tharizdun hits a creature other than itself within the aura with an attack, that creature loses all resistances and immunities, and can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points until all effects of that attack end. Whenever a creature other than Tharizdun enters or starts its turn in the aura, it takes 50 damage (100 damage while Tharizdun is bloodied). A creature can take this damage only once per turn.

Entity of Shattered Time
Tharizdun doesn't roll initiative. Instead he has a turn on initiative counts 50, 30 and 10. At the end of each of these turns, Tharizdun makes a saving throw to end conditional effects that don't normally end on a saving throw. Tharizdun only makes one set of recharge rolls at the end of his last turn each round.

Fuelled by Destruction
Whenever Tharizdun drops a creature to 0 hit points or fewer, or a creature drops to 0 hit points or fewer while in Tharizdun's aura, that creature dies and cannot be revived by any means until Tharizdun is destroyed, and Tharizdun gains a charge counter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Actions:
Melee Basic; Annihilating Touch (force, necrotic) * At-Will
Attack: Melee 5 (one enemy); +43 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 5d12 + 3 force and necrotic damage. The target takes an equal amount of ongoing force and necrotic damage (save ends). If the target is already taking ongoing force and necrotic damage, increase it by this amount instead. The target takes a -5 penalty to its first saving throw against ongoing damage taken or increased in this way.

Tides of Destruction (force, necrotic) * Recharge 5+ or when first bloodied
Attack: Close burst 20 (each creature in burst); +43 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 5d12 + 3 force and necrotic damage. The target is pushed 10 squares and knocked prone.
Miss: Half damage. The target is pushed 5 squares and knocked prone.
Effect: The target takes ongoing force and necrotic damage (save ends) equal to the damage dealt by this attack. If the target is already taking ongoing force and necrotic damage, increase it by this amount instead. The target takes a -5 penalty to its first saving throw against ongoing damage taken or increased in this way.

Scion of the Black Sun (force, necrotic, zone) * Recharge 4+ or when first bloodied
Attack: Area burst 2 within 20 squares
Effect: The burst creates a zone that lasts until the end of the encounter. At the start of each round, the size of the burst increases by +1. The zone blocks line of sight and squares within the zone are totally obscured. Creatures and objects cannot teleport while in the zone. While in the zone, moving to a square in the zone further from the origin square costs 3 additional squares of movement. Whenever a creature enters or starts its turn in the zone, the zone attacks that creature with Banish to Oblivion as no action. Tharizdun ignores all effects of the zone.

Obliterate * Recharge 6+ or when first bloodied
Requirement: Tharizdun must expend 3 charge counters.
Attack: Ranged 40 (one creature, and each creature granting cover to that creature); +43 vs. Fortitude; this attack ignores cover and superior cover.
Hit: The target is dropped to its negative bloodied value and dies.
Miss: The target takes damage equal to its bloodied value, is knocked prone, and is dazed, slowed and weakened (save ends all).

Utter Annihilation * At-Will
Requirement: Tharizdun must expend 10 charge counters.
Attack: Close Burst 20 (each creature in burst); +43 vs. Fortitude; this attack ignores cover and superior cover.
Hit: The target is dropped to its negative bloodied value and dies.
Miss: The target takes damage equal to its bloodied value, is knocked prone, and is dazed, slowed and weakened (save ends all).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minor Actions:
Countdown to Armageddon * At-Will (1/round)
Effect: Tharizdun gains a charge counter.

Expunge * At-Will (1/turn)
Attack: Close Burst 20 (one creature in the burst); +43 vs. Will
Hit: The target takes ongoing force and necrotic damage equal to its healing surge value (save ends). If the target is already taking ongoing force and necrotic damage, increase it by this amount instead.

Condemnation of the Black Sun * At-Will (1/turn)
Attack: Close Burst 20 (one creature in the burst taking ongoing damage from Tharizdun); +43 vs. Fortitude or Will
Hit: Until the ongoing damage dealt by Tharizdun ends, the target gains phasing and is weakened and insubstantial, and if the target fails two or more saving throws against that ongoing damage after being hit by this attack, it dies, leaving no remains. Tharizdun ignores any insubstantial quality gained in this way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Actions:
Ruinous Infusion * At-Will (1/turn)
Effect: Tharizdun expends any number of charge counters. For each charge counter expended in this way, he gains a +2 bonus to an attack roll, rolls to recharge a power, makes a saving throw to end an effect (even if that effect doesn't normally end on a save), or deals 25 extra damage.
Special: Once per use of this power, Tharizdun can take 50 damage in place of expending 1 charge counter. This damage can't be reduced in any way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Triggered Actions:
Divine Discorporation * Encounter
Trigger: Tharizdun becomes bloodied.
Effect (No Action): Tharizdun discorporates. If Tharizdun cannot discorporate, he gains 3 charge counters instead.

Salvation to Destruction * At-Will
Trigger: A creature within Tharizdun's aura regains hit points, gains temporary hit points, or makes an extra saving throw
Attack: Close Burst 20 (the triggering creature); +43 vs. Fortitude
Hit (Immediate Interrupt): If the target is making an extra saving throw, that saving throw automatically fails, and counts as a failed saving throw for the purposes of effects. Otherwise, the target does not regain hit points or gain temporary hit points and takes necrotic damage equal to the amount of hit points or temporary hit points it would have gained. This damage cannot be reduced in any way.

Entropic Backlash (force, necrotic) * At-Will (1/turn)
Trigger: An enemy hits or deals damage to Tharizdun.
Target: The triggering creature.
Effect (No Action): The target takes ongoing force and necrotic damage equal to the greater of half the damage it dealt or its healing surge value. If the target is already taking ongoing force and necrotic damage, increase it by this amount instead. The target takes a -10 penalty to the first saving throw against ongoing damage taken or increased in this way.

Immortal Resilience * At-Will
Trigger: Tharizdun is subjected to an effect with a conditional duration.
Effect (No Action): Tharizdun makes a saving throw to end the effect, even if that effect doesn't normally end on a save.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skills & Attributes:
Skills: Arcana +36, Athletics +46, Endurance +46, Bluff +36, History +38, Insight +36, Intimidate +36, Nature +36, Religion +36
Str: 53 (+41) - Dex: 23 (+29) - Wis: 33 (+31)
Con: 53 (+41) - Int: 33 (+31) - Cha: 33 (+31)
Alignment: Chaotic Evil - Languages: All, Telepathy 100
Equipment: None


Maddened:
While maddened, a creature takes a -2 penalty to its Will defense and saving throws against the effects of the creature that caused it to become maddened, is subject to all effects of that maddening creature's auras, and makes a saving throw whenever it takes an action or uses a power. If the maddened creature fails that saving throw, the creature that made the creature maddened makes all decisions for that action or power. If an attack made by a maddened creature hits a creature other than the one that maddened it, that creature is maddened (save ends), treating the original source of the maddened condition as the creature that maddened it (instead of the maddened creature).

Corrupted:
While corrupted, a creature takes a -5 penalty to its Will defense against the attacks of the creature that corrupted it and a -2 penalty to its saving throws against the effects of the creature that corrupted it. The creature that corrupted it chooses all actions for the corrupted creature, and enemies of the corrupting creature count as enemies to the corrupted creature. The corrupting creature cannot force the corrupted creature to take non at-will actions. If the corrupted creature's attacks hit a creature other than the creature that corrupted it, that creature is maddened (save ends), treating the original source of the corrupted condition as the creature that maddened it (instead of the corrupted creature).

Banished:
While banished, a creature is removed from play, and can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points.

Katana_Geldar
2011-09-18, 09:32 PM
I really like this, and the instant kill power if just evil. :smallbiggrin:

Lemonus
2011-09-19, 10:53 AM
Nice. Salvation to Destruction is just evil.

Garryl
2011-09-19, 11:06 AM
This looks interesting.

Are the banished, corrupted, and maddened conditions from somewhere? Are the effects described alongside them in Touch of Ineffable Madness, Halo of the Black Sun, and Banish to Oblivion supposed to be the standard effects of the conditions or are they special effects of the powers that occur alongside the normal effects of the conditions the powers impose? That is, for other sources of being maddened, corrupted, or banished (from Tides of Madness (maddened), Halo of the Black Sun (maddened aftereffect), Banish to Oblivion (corrupted aftereffect), Sudden Madness, and Glare of the Black Sun), do these conditions actually do anything (other than set up for future attacks), or are they supposed to be fully fleshed out conditions and that Touch of Ineffable Madness, Halo of the Black Sun, and Banish to Oblivion simply have reminder text about them?

LudiDrizzt
2011-09-19, 12:50 PM
I can't see any way that Tharizdun would be fun to fight, ever. Sorry.

Surrealistik
2011-09-19, 01:10 PM
I can't see any way that Tharizdun would be fun to fight, ever. Sorry.

I think I should clarify that every last solo mob in this thread is generally meant to be defeatable only with a very high op, utterly pimped out L30 party with all of their resources available (and even then it is supposed to be a difficult challenge). Standard L30 parties need not apply, and will get brutally massacred; this is by design.

Further, the madness mechanic I feel is entertaining, substituting the uninteresting (and unfun) ultra hard control of effects like daze/stun and domination with something that's more liberal, and allows the player a chance to ignore the effect, or to strategically choose not to take risks or minimize them by not taking actions or taking actions that will not be as devastating if turned on the party due to a failed save. The randomness also adds some excitement and suspense. Further, players can build their characters to help minimize the impact by pumping saving throw bonuses and the like.

The domination like corruption in the meanwhile, requires a second attack roll and being first subject to madness.


Are the effects described alongside them in Touch of Ineffable Madness, Halo of the Black Sun, and Banish to Oblivion supposed to be the standard effects of the conditions or are they special effects of the powers that occur alongside the normal effects of the conditions the powers impose?

They are custom conditions defined by the powers you've mentioned.

Garryl
2011-09-19, 02:25 PM
They are custom conditions defined by the powers you've mentioned.

A proper definition would be nice. As written, only those specific powers cause the effects you want the conditions to cause, while the conditions themselves are undefined.



Here's a quick write-up of the conditions, as defined in the powers. Did I miss anything?

Maddened:
While maddened, a creature takes a -2 penalty to its Will defense and saving throws against the effects of the creature that caused it to become maddened, is subject to all effects of that maddening creature's auras, and makes a saving throw whenever it takes an action or uses a power. If the maddened creature fails that saving throw, the creature that made the creature maddened makes all decisions for that action or power. If an attack made by a maddened creature hits a creature other than the one that maddened it, that creature is maddened (save ends), treating the original source of the maddened condition as the creature that maddened it (instead of the maddened creature).

Corrupted:
While corrupted, a creature takes a -5 penalty to its Will defense against the attacks of the creature that corrupted it and a -2 penalty to its saving throws against the effects of the creature that corrupted it. The creature that corrupted it chooses all actions for the corrupted creature, and enemies of the corrupting creature count as enemies to the corrupted creature. The corrupting creature cannot force the corrupted creature to take non at-will actions. If the corrupted creature's attacks hit a creature other than the creature that corrupted it, that creature is maddened (save ends), treating the original source of the corrupted condition as the creature that maddened it (instead of the corrupted creature).

Banished:
While banished, a creature is removed from play, and can't regain hit points or gain temporary hit points. The target takes a -2 penalty to all saving throws made against the effect that banished it. When the effect ends, the creature returns to play in an unoccupied square within 20 square of the creature that banished it of the banishing creature's choice.

LudiDrizzt
2011-09-19, 02:56 PM
I think I should clarify that every last solo mob in this thread is generally meant to be defeatable only with a very high op, utterly pimped out L30 party with all of their resources available (and even then it is supposed to be a difficult challenge). Standard L30 parties need not apply, and will get brutally massacred; this is by design.

Further, the madness mechanic I feel is entertaining, substituting the uninteresting (and unfun) ultra hard control of effects like daze/stun and domination with something that's more liberal, and allows the player a chance to ignore the effect, or to strategically choose not to take risks or minimize them by not taking actions or taking actions that will not be as devastating if turned on the party due to a failed save. The randomness also adds some excitement and suspense. Further, players can build their characters to help minimize the impact by pumping saving throw bonuses and the like.

The domination like corruption in the meanwhile, requires a second attack roll and being first subject to madness.

I understand that. I just don't think this would be a fun fight. He has an aura that states once you're reduced to 0 hp you die instantly, making the leader relatively useless, the survival features of every epic destiny in the game useless, and coupled with an attack that instant gibs any PC to death, that's just not good combat design. You can make a monster dangerous without making it unfairly powerful, and this isn't the way.

Surrealistik
2011-09-19, 03:08 PM
I understand that. I just don't think this would be a fun fight. He has an aura that states once you're reduced to 0 hp you die instantly, making the leader relatively useless, the survival features of every epic destiny in the game useless, and coupled with an attack that instant gibs any PC to death, that's just not good combat design. You can make a monster dangerous without making it unfairly powerful, and this isn't the way.

I agree Obliterate may be a bit much, but nullifying survival features in a thematic way that would otherwise render the fight risk free is fine; when you are up against a multiverse threatening god like Tharizdun, the fear of death should be very real and visceral. There should be no methods that allow you to walk away/survive with ease as the majority of them do. As for the aura, it doesn't render leaders useless; leaders still have plenty of opportunities to save their party members, particularly since this incarnation of Tharizdun is actually relatively low damage with the exception of his MBA.


Here's a quick write-up of the conditions, as defined in the powers. Did I miss anything?

No, that looks good, nice work. I'll add it to the post.

Surrealistik
2011-09-20, 02:44 PM
Second stage of Tharizdun is complete.

Snowbody
2011-09-21, 08:38 AM
Hi, newbie here admiring your work.

One question. You give Tharizdun a bonus to saving throws against fear, but you also say he's immune to fear. Doesn't immune mean that he doesn't need to even make a saving throw, since the effect never sticks?

Surrealistik
2011-09-21, 09:58 AM
Hi, newbie here admiring your work.

One question. You give Tharizdun a bonus to saving throws against fear, but you also say he's immune to fear. Doesn't immune mean that he doesn't need to even make a saving throw, since the effect never sticks?

The problem is that there are some pretty nasty fear keyword controlling effects and ways to remove/circumvent fear immunity, hence the seeming redundancy.

Sipex
2011-09-21, 10:03 AM
I'm unfamiliar with Epic level play. Has any of this been play tested yet? Specifically the whole normal lv 30 party vs optimised lv 30 party thing.

Surrealistik
2011-09-21, 10:13 AM
Nah, Tharizdun was literally written up just now, and I don't have a playtest group. That said, I would love it if someone could playtest these bosses with some of the better L30 builds listed on the WotC char op forums.

Also by optimized L30, I mean I want the mob to stand up to flat out degenerate builds like The Cheesewizard (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28273981/The_Cheesewizard?pg=1).

Surrealistik
2013-03-30, 11:37 AM
Added Shar:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cf42AC4Keredxiz8dpmm1RjOIe16LB_DDNJBtzmFovo/edit#