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Quirp
2011-06-02, 12:05 PM
The Master of One

Many Mages try to acquire more power and stronger spells over the course of their live. The Master of One is a mage, who was so excited, when he cast his first spell that he always tried to improve his casting of this spell. After years of study he has found ways to cast this spell in ways no other mage can truly understand. His chosen spell becomes able to compete with much more powerful spells.
HD: d6

4+Intmod Skillpoints, x4 at first level
Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge (arcana, history, the planes), Perform, Profession, Spellcraft

Prerequisites: must be able to cast 1st level arcane spells, concentration 8 ranks, spellcraft 8 ranks

Master of One
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Spontaneous Casting, Enhance Spell|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Better than Most|-

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Enhance Spell|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Automatic Metamagic +2|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Enhance Spell|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Flawless Casting|-

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Enhance Spell|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Automatic Metamagic +4|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Enhance Spell|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Truly a Master|-[/table]

Spontaneous Casting: Choose one 0th or 1st level arcane spell you can cast. From now on you can convert any spell you have prepared into that spell. If the spell you spend is of a higher level than 1st your chosen spell is heightened to the level of that spell. If you cast spells spontaneously you do not increase the casting time of your chosen spell, when you apply metamagic feats to it.

Enhance Spell: Every time you get this class feature choose one of the abilities below.
{table]Hit them Harder*|The cap on the number of damage dice of your chosen spell is increased by your class level or spells that produce several projectiles (magic missile) increase the number of projectiles by that number or static bonus damage (+x not +xdy) is increased by your class level.
No Resistance|You can ignore spell resistance, when casting your chosen spell.
Lost Immunity*|You can ignore one descriptor of your chosen spell like [fear] or [mind-affecting], when determining if the target is affected by the spell.
Not Big Enough**|The HD cap on your chosen spell increases by twice your class level.
Bigger is Better**|The area of your chosen spell doubles.
Elemental Variety|You can freely choose which elemental damage type your chosen spell deals on each casting.
Power Boost**|Your caster level with your chosen spell increases by 2.
Counterspell Immunity|When you cast your chosen spell it cannot be countered or dispelled.
Effective Boost|Boni (skill/AC/…) you or others gain from your spell are increased by your class level
Still Active**|The duration of your spell increases (1round/lvl->1min/lvl->10min/lvl-> 1hour/lvl->24hours)
Far, Far Away**|The range of your spell increases by on category (low->mid->high)[/table]
*can be taken more than once
**can be taken more than once, stacks

Better than Most: You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when casting your chosen spell. You get a bonus equal to your class level on concentration checks to avoid losing that spell.

Automatic Metamagic +X: You can add X levels worth of metamagic feats to your chosen spell, when you cast it, without increasing its actual level (you must still know the feats).

Flawless Casting: When casting your chosen spell, you do not incur arcane spell failure chance. You never lose your spell due to taken damage, a hindering spell or environmental effects.

Truly a Master: You can cast your chosen spell as an immediate action. If you still have an immediate action remaining you can use your chosen spell to counter a spell cast within 120 ft as if using greater dispel magic. You can redirect your chosen spell to a new target or area if it is cast within 120 ft of you.

Lyndworm
2011-06-02, 12:44 PM
I really like this. It makes me want to play a Sorcerer 5/Master of One 10/Force Missile Mage 5.

At 20th level (I know the wizard can do worse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201360), right? :smalltongue:) that's 11d4+11 damage per Magic Missile (of which I would have 17). That's something to the tune of 187d4+187, twice a round (once as a Standard action and once Quickened to a Swift action for free). It also ignores Spell Resistance and is Long Range (meaning enemies just spontaneously explode without even seeing from where it came.)

Is that something that you wanted to happen?

Quirp
2011-06-02, 12:53 PM
Seeing what 9th level spells normally do, this would be ok. You dedicated your entire build to that trick so it should have some awesome effects.
But the ability to increase the dice cap on a spell can only be used on spells, which have such a cap (at least thats what I intended). Magic Missile sadly has no scaling damge, only a scaling number of missiles. I included the statement about static damage and amount of missile exactly for that spell.
This means you would get only 1d4+11 damage on 17 missiles (so 17d4+187). Still not a low amount of dice to be rolled and the damage would be decent, especially when you apply empower spell to it as 2 levels of your free metamagic.

Jade Dragon
2011-06-02, 12:54 PM
Now imagine if you maximized that magic missile.

Veyr
2011-06-02, 01:02 PM
Three spellcasting levels...

versus Metamagic absurdity, Caster Level bonuses liek whoa, removal of hindering descriptors, upping HD limits by an enormous amount...

all on 1st-level spells.


I'm torn. You lose a ton. You gain a ton. It might... it might come out balanced? I'd want to see testing of it before allowing it, but wow, this is impressive for what it's trying to do, and how close it comes even if it does not quite succeed — which it very well might.

I think something like Sleep with the HD-cap raising Enhancement might be a bit too good. Not certain, though.


Also, heh, regarding the title, "Master of One, a new PrC" — there have actually been at least two previous PrCs by that title on this forum and I'm pretty sure there's a third to be found on Gleemax. The others were all martial adept PrCs that function as opposites to the Master of the Nine PrC in Tome of Battle.

Quirp
2011-06-02, 01:20 PM
On the topic of sleep: I thought that at the level you gain the bonus on the HD cap (lets assume you take it only once and increase the range and other things after that) it makes the spell viable again, since, unless most of your enemies are outsiders or humanoids, hit dice scale faster than levels, so you would only be able to affect one or two targets at once (who still get a save).

I have to admit that I pictured this class as an old (exalted) wizard, who has never killed anyone in his live. He makes everyone, who opposes him, sleep.

On the thead title: I didnīt know that ("another PrC" might have been better, then), but my class has two reasons for the "One":
1. It concentrates on One spell
2. The spell is of the spell level One

Thank you for your kind responses.

Lyndworm
2011-06-02, 01:34 PM
Seeing what 9th level spells normally do, this would be ok. You dedicated your entire build to that trick so it should have some awesome effects.
The problem is that the character also casts as a 16th level sorcerer. 8th level spells + the above shenanigans is a potent combo. If you're cool with that, then OK. I just wanted to make sure you knw what you had accomplished.


But the ability to increase the dice cap on a spell can only be used on spells, which have such a cap (at least thats what I intended). Magic Missile sadly has no scaling damge, only a scaling number of missiles. I included the statement about static damage and amount of missile exactly for that spell.
This means you would get only 1d4+11 damage on 17 missiles (so 17d4+187). Still not a low amount of dice to be rolled and the damage would be decent, especially when you apply empower spell to it as 2 levels of your free metamagic.
I (now) see what you were intending, but that's not what you wrote. What you wrote is this:

The cap on the number of damage dice of your chosen spell is increased by your class level
There's no mention of scaling, only a 'cap.' Neither you nor D&D defines the term 'cap' (as far as I'm aware), so I'm pretty sure it's still a completely legal RaW use of the ability. Besides, if you can't do that, then the sorcerer's getting a pretty raw deal. He'd be much better off to go Sorcerer 10/Force Missile Mage 5/Abjurant Champion 5. That doesn't mean it's a bad class, only that it's not great for magic missile abuse.


Now imagine if you maximized that magic missile.
My thoughts exactly. Although with a d4 damage die you'd probably be better off using Empower than Maximize.


I think something like Sleep with the HD-cap raising Enhancement might be a bit too good. Not certain, though.
I think things like sleep is probably the best use of this class. It could get ridonkulous.


Also, heh, regarding the title, "Master of One, a new PrC" — there have actually been at least two previous PrCs by that title on this forum and I'm pretty sure there's a third to be found on Gleemax. The others were all martial adept PrCs that function as opposites to the Master of the Nine PrC in Tome of Battle.
That's what I thought this was going to be, actually. I was pleasantly surprised.


On the topic of sleep: I thought that at the level you gain the bonus on the HD cap (lets assume you take it only once and increase the range and other things after that) it makes the spell viable again, since, unless most of your enemies are outsiders or humanoids, hit dice scale faster than levels, so you would only be able to affect one or two targets at once (who still get a save).
That's fairly suboptimal, though. If you take the HD increase all five times... you effect 104 HD. That could put an entire several Epic enemies to sleep at once. At fifteenth level.

Quirp
2011-06-02, 02:02 PM
Yeah, but the chance is pretty high your epic level targets have high spell resistance and are immune to mind-affecting things, so you want to ignore these things.

On the high level casting: I considered to lose more caster levels, but I somehow decided against it. In a low(er) powered campaign this class should probably be at least half-casting.

EDIT: Would this be a better way to express the Hit them Harder ability:
You can either improve a cap on damage dice (if one already exists: xdy/caster level)
Or
Add your class level to static bonus damage (1d4+X)
Or
Increase the number of missiles a spell creates.

DracoDei
2011-06-02, 02:40 PM
For clarity (with the above mentioned name duplication issue) perhaps you could try "Master of One Spell" or some such?

Quirp
2011-06-02, 02:43 PM
It would better fit to the abilities of the class, but I think it sounds a bit clumsy (is that the right word).

DracoDei
2011-06-02, 03:02 PM
It would better fit to the abilities of the class, but I think it sounds a bit clumsy (is that the right word).

Yes, it does. Thus "or some such". Brain not functioning 100%, thus not a fount of ideas right now.

JoshuaZ
2011-06-02, 03:36 PM
How about "Perfected Spell" or "Master of the Perfected Spell"?

DracoDei
2011-06-02, 03:40 PM
How about "Perfected Spell" or "Master of the Perfected Spell"?

The second one sounds good to me.

Salbazier
2011-06-02, 03:47 PM
Name: Archspell (stealing from 4e epic destiny)

Longer, a bit silly(?): One Spell Paragon

Jade Dragon
2011-06-02, 03:47 PM
Name: Archspell (stealing from 4e epic destiny)

That's what the name was! I was thinking of that.

Lyndworm
2011-06-02, 03:48 PM
Yeah, but the chance is pretty high your epic level targets have high spell resistance and are immune to mind-affecting things, so you want to ignore these things.
That's actually a valid point, but l0wering the cap to 84 HD and then even effecting mindless creatures and the like is a super-powerful ability.


On the high level casting: I considered to lose more caster levels, but I somehow decided against it. In a low(er) powered campaign this class should probably be at least half-casting.
I think that three lost levels is about right. It's enough to make a sorcerer lose access to 9th level spells, after all. five lost levels would lose access to 8th level spells, too, and that's just crippling.


EDIT: Would this be a better way to express the Hit them Harder ability:
You can either improve a cap on damage dice (if one already exists: xdy/caster level)
Or
Add your class level to static bonus damage (1d4+X)
Or
Increase the number of missiles a spell creates.
It's less ambiguous, but kind of clunky.



How does Not Big Enough affect Color Spray and similar spells?

TheLonelyScribe
2011-06-02, 04:03 PM
No idea if it's balanced, but I love it.

I think a clever DM could manufacture his campaign so that a high-powered Sleep is not always useful, whilst still letting his player have fun with it. Perhaps a game that is mainly diplomacy, until an entire village needs to be put to sleep so that their dreams can be harvested...

Benly
2011-06-02, 09:42 PM
How would a Master of Silent Image interact with Shadowcraft Mage?

deuxhero
2011-06-02, 10:03 PM
Likely broken, but LTIC, Shadowcraft mage does that fine on its own.

Quirp
2011-06-03, 09:46 AM
Not Big Enough increases all HD caps on color spray by 2/class level (example: class level 1: your caps are 4/5-6/7). It does the same to hypnotism (so your HD limit increases to 2d4+2/class level).

Fouredged Sword
2011-06-03, 11:11 AM
Take magic missile. Make it bypass SR and negative level Immunity. Take Not big enough and Bigger is better.

Now take fell drain, fell weaken, and something else.

Now your level one spell causes a negative level to quite a few oponents in a large (30ft) area, no roll, no save, no immunity.

Now twin it and or quicken it. I figure you can deal 3 negative levels a round to most foes each round.

Quirp
2011-06-03, 11:17 AM
The only problem with your plan is that magic missile does not have any desriptor like [negative level] so you canīt remove it. You could make it not a [force] spell to affect force dragons, but the ability does not help against immunities, which are written out: for example a master of magic missile is hindered by a shield spell and a master of sleep is hindered by an elf.

And what you described is an effect of a feat and not of the spell. Enhance Spell just changes a spell and not a feat.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-03, 03:58 PM
No love for touch spells? It's only a first level spell, why not give a +5 bonus to the attack roll as one of the options? Sure it might not be as optimized but that's all the more reason why you should provide it.

I'm asking because with that bonus I could run a SAD Master of Orb of Fire, Lesser. But hell, it might be better optimized to just buff Dex and start launching Empowered Maximized Enervated Stilled Silent Blistering Fell Weakened Lesser Orbs of Fire in 1st level spell slots as immediate actions (Doesn't everyone love Arcane Thesis with this class?)

Fruchtkracher
2011-06-05, 02:16 PM
Now that might seem like a nitpick, but I didn't realize that earlier:
why the d6 hit-dice? the class is a spezialisation of either the wizard or the sorceror (though dread necro, duskblade, warmage, wu-jen, bard and even adept qualify as well) - the upgrade is kinda... unneccesary

in the same vein, why 4 skillpoints/level? Do not get me wrong, I always prefer more skillpoints, but the most logical entrypoint would be a wizard, so the upgrade seems... out of space :/

and another small one - why would he have perform as a class skill?

Quirp
2011-06-05, 02:33 PM
I donīt like the d4 as hit dice on anything but a commoner. I think someone, who has seen his share of owlbears, trolls and umber hulks should be tougher than a regular person.
I also donīt like 2+Intmod skill points, so I gave him more (also bard).

You can look at it as if I had put my houserules into the creation of the class. If you play vanilla D&D you could easily give him a d4 and lower skill points.

Bard is a valid entry, he needed more class skills and perform is something every wizard, who wants to have a good stage entry, wants to have ranks in.

DracoDei
2011-06-05, 02:34 PM
and another small one - why would he have perform as a class skill?
To accommodate bard entry probably. Which might also help explain the skill points slightly and MAYBE even the HD. Not saying I agree/disagree with the skill points or HD. I would say keeping Perform is wise.

Fruchtkracher
2011-06-05, 11:37 PM
bard would be a really crappy entry point
i mean a bard loses way more than any other class - skill points, Bab, his bardic abilities, and his already slow spell progression is even hampered more (6th level spells at level 19? come on oO)

Quirp
2011-06-06, 09:21 AM
A bard loses a lot. But a bard gains the ability to cast spells that rival 9th level spells in power, something that a straight bard 20 build never gets.
Sure wizard is better, but that doesnīt say much, does it?

Fruchtkracher
2011-06-06, 11:04 AM
which ones?
name me one bard spell besides hypnotism or sleep that would be usefull, even with that class
i mean ... featherfall? expeditious retreat?(though that one might be funny at least =D)
though of course i'm just kidding, the rather bad options for bards don't really matter, every other entry class is simply better

Quirp
2011-06-06, 11:51 AM
Hideous Laughter and Cause Fear from the DMG.
from ComAdv: Focusing Chant, Heraldīs Call and Inspirational Boost

Fruchtkracher
2011-06-06, 12:11 PM
Hideous Laughter and Cause Fear from the DMG.
from ComAdv: Focusing Chant, Heraldīs Call and Inspirational Boost

Hideous Laughter? doesn't work against anything with less than 3 int - no animals, no golems, no oozes - kinda unfavourable to boost as your main spell

Cause Fear - quite a few enemies immune to

Focussing chant and especially Heralds call (seriously? slow? I mean, it's nice, but...) aren't nearly as effective as sleep or magic missile

Inspirational Boost on the other hands (with a few boosts of bardic music) will turn your melee-buddies into war machines :smalleek:

Quirp
2011-06-06, 12:16 PM
Hideous Laughter? doesn't work against anything with less than 3 int - no animals, no golems, no oozes - kinda unfavourable to boost as your main spell

You might have a point there, but in campaigns with more intelligent enemies it is ok.



Cause Fear - quite a few enemies immune to

You know this class can change that?



Focussing chant and especially Heralds call (seriously? slow? I mean, it's nice, but...) aren't nearly as effective as sleep or magic missile

Focusing Chant can turn YOU in a war machine.



Inspirational Boost on the other hands (with a few boosts of bardic music) will turn your melee-buddies into war machines :smalleek:

Yes, I know.:smallamused:

Dark Kerman
2011-06-06, 06:31 PM
Do the spells get an increase in DC? I.e, held at a 1st level spell slot, but with the DC of a 8th level one at higher levels? Otherwise the DC will be rather low for things such as sleep. :P

Quirp
2011-06-07, 08:56 AM
Spontaneous Casting: Choose one 0th or 1st level arcane spell you can cast. From now on you can convert any spell you have prepared into that spell. If the spell you spend is of a higher level than 1st your chosen spell is heightened to the level of that spell. If you cast spells spontaneously you do not increase the casting time of your chosen spell, when you apply metamagic feats to it.

No, the spells do not get an increased DC, but look at the quote above.

Dark Kerman
2011-06-07, 09:06 AM
Ah, I understand, thanks.

137ben
2011-06-07, 08:05 PM
I love it, but
"Effective Boost Boni (skill/AC/…) you or others gain from your spell are increased by your class level"

A spell that boosts a skill should not give the same numerical boost as one that boosts an ability score. Making all of the number boosts increase by the same amount throws stuff off.

Also, epic progression?

Other than that, it's great.

Oh, and the tier of this class varies widely depending on the spell chosen. If you use magic missile, it could come out balanced. On the other hand, if you choose charm person...

Quirp
2011-06-08, 08:37 AM
As an epic progression you could just give him Enhance Spell (or a bonus feat) every two levels beginning at 11 (so 11, 13, 15, ...). He would loose a level of casting progression at 14, 18, 22, ....

on Effective Boost: It is pretty hard to judge, which bonus should get a higher or lower value. I also do not know, which boni are available through first level spells. If you have any ideas, I would be glad to see them.

Veklim
2011-06-08, 09:07 AM
on Effective Boost: It is pretty hard to judge, which bonus should get a higher or lower value. I also do not know, which boni are available through first level spells. If you have any ideas, I would be glad to see them.

The simplest idea I could give for this would be to give either a fixed 50% boost to the bonus, maybe with the option of taking it twice (for 100%), or perhaps give +10%/level.

Static integer boni are very awkward to get right when spread across more than 1 ability/skill/bab/etc, using the initial value is often a better way of balancing between existant ratios and tolerances.

Otherwise pretty damned cool! :smallbiggrin:

Quirp
2011-06-08, 09:41 AM
The simplest idea I could give for this would be to give either a fixed 50% boost to the bonus, maybe with the option of taking it twice (for 100%), or perhaps give +10%/level.

Static integer boni are very awkward to get right when spread across more than 1 ability/skill/bab/etc, using the initial value is often a better way of balancing between existant ratios and tolerances.


The big problem with this is that first level spells often give only a very small bonus to one or two things, so that a fixed increase is a lot stronger and makes the spell comparable in power to higher level spells. Inspirational Boost for example gives a bonus of +1. If I applied a 10 % per level increase or a 50 % increase nothing would change (for a long time).

Fruchtkracher
2011-06-08, 10:46 AM
The big problem with this is that first level spells often give only a very small bonus to one or two things, so that a fixed increase is a lot stronger and makes the spell comparable in power to higher level spells. Inspirational Boost for example gives a bonus of +1. If I applied a 10 % per level increase or a 50 % increase nothing would change (for a long time).

in that respect you could change it to give a percentage bonus depending on which spell-slot you prepare it in (or cast spontaneously, whatever)

so for example, prepare inspirational boost as a first level spell add 100% bonus for a +1 increase (to +2), as a second level spell slot double that ammount (+2 bonus, to +3 altogether), +4 on third level, +8 on fourth...
although i realize for that even your reduced spell progression is a bit high
well, it could be a starting point :smallredface:

Veklim
2011-06-08, 01:38 PM
and true strike becomes....?

DracoDei
2011-06-08, 05:09 PM
and true strike becomes....?
True Strike is a reasonably balanced spell in the more usual cases, but doesn't happen to much NEED a bigger bonus.

Veklim
2011-06-09, 05:28 AM
This is true, until you look at the amount of BAB certain builds can sacrifice for extra AC and/or damage, then factor in the idea of +80 to hit (which would be a 3rd level spell using Fruchtkracher's suggestion), the things you could do (and the AC you could hit) at relatively low levels is quite shocking, let alone the level 15+ bracket. Couple it with a bow at maximum range and you're outstripping an optimised DWS type build quite easily.

I see that after a certain point it would make no appreciable difference, but I'm sure there are a few spells out there which would produce equally outrageous numbers in the correct circumstances.

J.Gellert
2011-06-09, 05:39 AM
I really like this. It makes me want to play a Sorcerer 5/Master of One 10/Force Missile Mage 5.

At 20th level (I know the wizard can do worse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201360), right? :smalltongue:) that's 11d4+11 damage per Magic Missile (of which I would have 17). That's something to the tune of 187d4+187, twice a r

That's exactly the point when I lost interest in this thread :smalltongue:

Broken, broken, broken. You can do much worse, but then you acknowledge it's cheesy. With this class? It's expected of you. It's your class feature.

Remember that it doesn't matter in how many ways you can kill someone; all that matters is your single most effective way.

DracoDei
2011-06-09, 09:17 AM
This is true, until you look at the amount of BAB certain builds can sacrifice for <SNIP>
Except that True Strike grants a to-hit bonus, not BAB and all of those things are almost certainly capped at BAB. Now there may or may not be loopholes about sacrificing your full BAB to more than one of them, but still...

137ben
2011-06-09, 06:44 PM
That's exactly the point when I lost interest in this thread :smalltongue:

Broken, broken, broken. You can do much worse, but then you acknowledge it's cheesy. With this class? It's expected of you. It's your class feature.

Remember that it doesn't matter in how many ways you can kill someone; all that matters is your single most effective way.

Psst: right afterward, the OP pointed out that the post you quoted was inaccurate. How broken this class is depends heavily on the spell in question. It is at LEAST tier 2 of you choose Charm Person, while a master of hold portal would probably be no better than tier 5.

DracoDei
2011-06-09, 09:04 PM
Psst: right afterward, the OP pointed out that the post you quoted was inaccurate. How broken this class is depends heavily on the spell in question. It is at LEAST tier 2 of you choose Charm Person, while a master of hold portal would probably be no better than tier 5.
Are you sure you have your tier definitions correct? As I understand they are mostly about versatility and to what degree the external circumstances (AKA the GM) can't force your character into any conflict at any particular time if you wish to avoid it. I could be way off base, it has been a while since I looked at them myself.

Veyr
2011-06-09, 09:17 PM
Tiers don't really apply to PrCs particularly well anyway. It's usually best to try to balance a PrC against the intended entry ("Tier +0"), though in some cases that's avoided (especially with poorly-balanced entries).

137ben
2011-06-09, 09:27 PM
Regardless, my point still stands: the balance of this PrC depends heavily on the spell selected. I suppose if we are balancing against the entry class, though, than this would be a rare time when it's appropriate to say "a Wizard could do worse":smalltongue:
Still, the DM needs to be aware of the power gap between the specialties of individual spells.

Veklim
2011-06-10, 05:20 AM
Regardless, my point still stands: the balance of this PrC depends heavily on the spell selected. I suppose if we are balancing against the entry class, though, than this would be a rare time when it's appropriate to say "a Wizard could do worse"

In fairness, the same trouble applies when a wizard chooses his spells in the first place, some are more powerful than others, some are more versatile, that's never going to change.


Still, the DM needs to be aware of the power gap between the specialties of individual spells.

The DM should anyway, regardless of which classes/PrCs etc you may or may not be using.

Use the farce puke, use the farce.

Veyr
2011-06-10, 10:55 AM
Regardless, my point still stands: the balance of this PrC depends heavily on the spell selected. I suppose if we are balancing against the entry class, though, than this would be a rare time when it's appropriate to say "a Wizard could do worse":smalltongue:
Still, the DM needs to be aware of the power gap between the specialties of individual spells.
You need to take a powerful spell to make up for three lost spellcasting levels. There isn't a single PrC printed by WotC that loses 3 or more spellcasting levels on a full-caster (rather than a gish) that is actually balanced — they're all hideously underpowered, that to take them is to shoot yourself in the foot.

This, on the other hand, may actually be able to make up for those lost spellcasting levels. You need to give that kind of power in order to do that.

thompur
2011-07-20, 09:32 PM
Would 'Hit Them Harder' do anything for Ray of Enfeeblement? Would it still be 1d6+1/2 levels?

Quirp
2011-07-21, 10:33 AM
I think Effective Boost is more appropriate, since you apply a penalty (a negative bonus) and donīt deal ability damage (or drain). This would result in a strength score reduced by 1d6+half caster level (max. 5)+ class level.