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View Full Version : The Ikea Tarrasque, Version 2.0



Rei_Jin
2006-04-06, 01:32 AM
I promised this, and now I deliver to you, my latest creation!


This, is the new and improved Ikea Tarrasque Version 2.0, adapted so that anyone at home can have their very own Ikea Tarrasque.

Unfortunately, due to the good people at WoTC removing some of the brokenness that was inherant in 3.0, I can no longer make a creature that is immune to all damage.

I did make something damn close though. *;D


This is a template combination that can be added to any Animal, Beast, Giant, Humanoid Creature, Magical Beast, or Monstrous Humanoid that makes it immune to weapons of all types, and nearly all spells.

Lernean Multi-Headed Half Clay Golem.

Cost? +7 Challenge Rating, or +7 Level Adjustment and 2 Racial Hitdie.


The Base Creature gains the Construct Subtype

Add 2 hitdie to the original total,

Gain an extra head

+2 to Listen, Search and Spot

Gain Improved Initiative and Combat Reflexes as bonus feats.

Stats are adjusted as follows: Str +8, Dex -2, Con (removed), Int -6, Wis +0, Cha -6.

It automatically Berserks in battle, adding +4 to Strength, and -2 to AC.

All damage it deals is wounding damage that can only be healed with a healing spell of level 6 or higher.

After being in combat for 1 round, it may Haste for 3 rounds. This is only useable once per day.

It is Immune to any affect that targets its body thanks to the Lernaean subtype, and the only vulnerable part of it is its heads.

There are a few ways to kill this beast, but it is difficult.

Firstly, a successful Death effect or a Disintegrate effect will kill it outright.

Secondly, removing one of it's head with a slashing weapon, and then applying 5 points of either fire or acid damage to the stump before it regrows will kill it once all it's head are gone.

Thirdly, an unsuccessful Death effect or Disintegrate effect that deals enough damage to it will remove one of it's heads, at which point you need to deal 5 points of either fire or acid damage.

But you will have a few problems doing so.

Firstly, thanks to the Half-Clay Golem template it is Immune to slashing and piercing damage. This means that the only way to even hurt it is with a Death effect or a Disintegrate effect.

Secondly, also thanks to the Half-Clay Golem template, it is also has the following abilities.

Immunity to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance.

Acid now Heals it 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage it would have done, instead of harming it.

Immunity to all mind effects.

Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.

A Disintegrate spell slows it for 1d6 rounds and deals 1d12 points of damage.

A Move Earth spell drives it back 120 feet and deals 3d12 points of damage to it.

An Earthquake spell cast directly at it stops it from moving on it's next turn, and deals 5d10 points of damage.


So, in order to stop it, you need to deal hitpoint damage either with multiple Disintegrate spells, Move Earth spells, or Earthquake spells.

Unfortunately, even Wish doesn't work against this beast, as Wish allows Spell Resistance.

In any case dealing damage equal to half the original hitpoint total, then deal 5 points of fire damage to the stump within 1d4 rounds, or two heads grow from the stump, each with the original hitpoint total.

I say good luck to you. This is difficult, but not impossible.

There are two things I would like to see here.

Firstly, can anyone prove to me that this template stacking doesn't work, or that it won't work the way I am suggesting?

Secondly, I would like to see what beasts other people can come up with using this template.

EDIT: Just changed the size restrictions. There are none, but the larger the creature, the more heads it CAN have, and hence the higher level adjustment and challenge rating. If you leave it with only 1 head though, that doesn't change.

More heads equals more Racial Hitdie.

For each extra head, add +2 Racial Hitdie, and +2 to Listen, Search and Spot.

Restrictions on extra heads(From base creature)

Medium Size or Smaller: Up to 1 extra head
Large Size: Up to 3 extra heads
Huge Size: Up to 11 extra heads
Gargantuan Size: Up to 19 extra heads
Colossal Size: Up to 29 extra heads.

CR/LA Adjustments for extra heads

1 Head: As above
2-4 Heads: +1
5-7 Heads: +2
8-10 Heads: +3
11-15 Heads: +4
16-20 Heads: +5
21-25 Heads: +6
26-29 Heads: +7

PhoeKun
2006-04-06, 01:57 AM
To start, I cannot find anything to indicate that these templates do not stack. One problem down.

Now, why does it have to be Medium or smaller? Granted, this lets you make damn near unkillable creatures at CRs as low as 8 (Just imgaine the look on the party's faces when the see a Lernean Half Clay Golem Wolf...), which is actually an unstoppable encounter for an "appropriately" leveled party, but why can't you add this to, say, a Fire Giant? CR 17, and immune to the only remaining form of damage that can stop it from sprouting more heads.

I'll fiddle around/look at this more later. Someday, when I have players more apt at munchkinry, I will have need of his dread powers...

Rei_Jin
2006-04-06, 02:09 AM
Ok, edited the first post to reflect the actual nature in regards to size and number of heads.

Goumindong
2006-04-06, 02:54 AM
Earthquate and Move earth arent problems if SLASHING damage is required to remove a head, so you can safely rules those out.

What you are looking at now is being killed outright by multipule (or single) disentegrates. Since the golem is using special rules for disentegrate, each hit counts(in my mind) as a "successfull disentegrate" that (probably) doesnt reduce it to zero hit points.

So you just need something or some creature that doesnt have to worry about ray effects and you are golden.

Edit: Such as something with enough ECL in order to have a 36,000 GP shield (reflecting).

Anything that increases touch AC by a significant amount.

Rings of spell turning as well.

Rods of absorbtion will protect this beast for between 7 or 8 disentegrates

Another thing to be wary about is slashing damage wielders with scarabs of golembane.

Blink Dogs would make especialy nasty base creatures.

Orion-the-G
2006-04-06, 02:56 AM
Got to be a 'reflective' template out there somewhere :D

PhoeKun
2006-04-06, 03:03 AM
Are we still allowed to make this guy a Monster of Legend? I think the spell turning ability they can have would do the trick...

anyway, for the sheer fun of it, let's take a Wolf, and apply the template as written right now.

So that's one wolf, with 2d8+4 hit points. Adding the two templates, we have a two-headed wolf-construct with 4d8 hit dice (16 hp). The only way to kill it is to cause it to fail its save against a disintegrate spell which causes at least 8 hp of damage (unlikely since it does 1d12), and then another 5 hp of fire damage inside 1d4 rounds. The nasty thing here is that the wolf is CR 1, plus 7 CR for the added templates, making it a grand total of CR 8.

Do you know any level 8 parties with access to disintegrate? I don't. Cerberus' got nothing on this puppy.

Another idea: a Lernean Half-Clay Golem Wyrmling Red Dragon. CR 11... and I think it might just be invincible. Any holes I'm missing?

Goumindong
2006-04-06, 03:49 AM
Cant be dragons...

However that doesnt matter, because i have solved the "killable" problem for disentegrate.

Bat or Rat Swarm.

CR 2, Tiny Animal.

Spells or effects that only affect one target cannot affect swarms. (By by disgentegrate, by by cauterizing a head, by by attacking the head only)


So, now you just have to worry about your invincible CR 9 swarm not doing enough damage to kill your opponents with its automatic damage.

For the higher CR(and something that can kill any living creature given some time), try a hellwasp swarm (unfortounatly, much higher CR, at 8 base for a total of 15), a magical beast, which, with the added ability of being able to inhabit a body and turn it into a zombie (and deal 2d4 con dmg per hour, no save to a living host) and take actions for the body, means you can turn any creature with anatomy into an unkillable beast. Heal and Remove Disease will force them out of the body, except not because they are immune (both require spell resistance), and it doesnt really matter anyway, because you cant kill them.

edit: So unless those templates say that they cant be applied to swarms, the ikea tarrasque is complete at CR 9, and able to kill nearly any opposition at CR 15.

AtomicKitKat
2006-04-06, 05:30 AM
Swarms are considered Vermin. Not listed in the above thing.

Iron Golem would solve the disintegrate problem, although then you get the Rusting Grasp problem. :-/

Wih
2006-04-06, 06:29 AM
The only problem I can see with it is that the Half-Golem templates are a 3.0 template, and thus only have a CR increase - no LA increase, and so you can't use it for a PC.

The_Pyre
2006-04-06, 09:05 AM
Cant be dragons...


Azers? ;D

+1 CR, same HP, immunity to fire, but slightly lower speed.

PhoeKun
2006-04-06, 09:37 AM
The only problem I can see with it is that the Half-Golem templates are a 3.0 template, and thus only have a CR increase - no LA increase, and so you can't use it for a PC.

The true spirit of the Ikea Tarrasque is an anti-munchkin weapon. Its the DM telling his rules-exploiting, game breaking players "I can do it too. No wait, I can do it better. Now knock it off, and play nice."





Azers? ;D

+1 CR, same HP, immunity to fire, but slightly lower speed.

No outsiders, either. So far, the only fire-immune creature I can get those pesky golem arms to stick to is a Fire Giant. I'm still looking for a lower CR creature.

Rigeld2
2006-04-06, 09:39 AM
Wheres the Lernean template from? Crystalkeep doesnt have it and im not at home.

Overlord
2006-04-06, 09:48 AM
However, if the swarm template itself stacks with the rest of Rei Jin's templates, then I believe there is one monster that will work: The Needletooth Swarm (From the MM3). The Needletooth swarm is an animal, so the Ikea Tarrasque templates should stack with it. And the swarm template description in the Monster Manual (not sure about the SRD) even mentions swarms as being immune to Disintegrate. So the end result monster should have more than eleven hit dice and a CR of 13.

So, if the templates stack, the only thing that can kill one of these things is Move Earth and Earthquake. ;D Not quite sure how you'd explain a swarm of Lernean Half-Golem Dinosaurs though.

So...Will this work?

Shhalahr Windrider
2006-04-06, 10:03 AM
Swarms are considered Vermin. Not listed in the above thing.
Vermin?

Uh...
Bat swarm (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersS.html#bat-swarm) == "Diminutive Animal"
Rat swarm (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersS.html#rat-swarm) == "Tiny Animal"

I see nothing about these creatures even being considered vermin for a few special effects in the Swarm subtype description (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monsterTypes.html#swarm).

AtomicKitKat
2006-04-06, 10:38 AM
Ok, I missed the mammalian swarms, but honestly, can you say "Lernean Multi-Headed Half-Clay Golem Rat Swarm" with a straight face? :P

Edit: Are we sure Half-Flesh Golem isn't a better template? Immune to all spells except fire/cold which slows it down, and electricity, which heals it. Immunity to Slashing/Piercing could probably be achieved with other things.

Jothki
2006-04-06, 10:39 AM
To get rid of earthquake, can you just make the thing(s) fly?

Shhalahr Windrider
2006-04-06, 10:41 AM
Ok, I missed the mammalian swarms, but honestly, can you say "Lernean Multi-Headed Half-Clay Golem Rat Swarm" with a straight face? :P
No. ;D

Rigeld2
2006-04-06, 12:08 PM
Ok, I missed the mammalian swarms, but honestly, can you say "Lernean Multi-Headed Half-Clay Golem Rat Swarm" with a straight face? :P

Edit: Are we sure Half-Flesh Golem isn't a better template? Immune to all spells except fire/cold which slows it down, and electricity, which heals it. Immunity to Slashing/Piercing could probably be achieved with other things.
Immune to all spells that offer spell resistance. Theres a pretty big differerence... And theres an awful lot of spells that dont offer spell resistance.

AtomicKitKat
2006-04-06, 01:41 PM
Immune to all spells that offer spell resistance. Theres a pretty big differerence... And theres an awful lot of spells that dont offer spell resistance.

Disintegrate offers spell resistance. And since unlike the clay golem, it's not specifically mentioned as being vulnerable to Disintegrate... ;D

Behold_the_Void
2006-04-06, 01:47 PM
Is it possible to apply two half-golem traits? As I recall the half-golem template comes from a failed attachment for a golem prosthetic, so that would in theory permit multiple half-golem traits, if needed.

Rigeld2
2006-04-06, 02:06 PM
iirc no half golem can be applied to a construct, and half golems give you the construct subtype.

Rigeld2
2006-04-06, 02:09 PM
Disintegrate offers spell resistance. And since unlike the clay golem, it's not specifically mentioned as being vulnerable to Disintegrate... ;D

So its immune to disintegrate.. its not immune to Acid Arrow, for example. Nor any of the orbs from Complete Arcane? I think it is. Or you could just Black Tentacle it :p

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidArrow.htm

WampaX
2006-04-06, 02:20 PM
So its immune to disintegrate.. its not immune to Acid Arrow, for example. Nor any of the orbs from Complete Arcane? I think it is. Or you could just Black Tentacle it :p

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidArrow.htm

But Acid heals it 1 for 3 thanks to the 1/2 Clay.

AtomicKitKat
2006-04-06, 02:28 PM
Actually, WampaX, he was replying to my suggestion about the 1/2 Flesh Golem.

WampaX
2006-04-06, 02:42 PM
Actually, WampaX, he was replying to my suggestion about the 1/2 Flesh Golem.

Bah. Saw "golem" and ran with it without looking closer. :-[

Rigeld2
2006-04-06, 03:27 PM
Bah. Saw "golem" and ran with it without looking closer. :-[

No biggie. And you dont have to use Acid - theres an Orb spell for every damage type (Electric, Sonic, etc.)

storybookknight
2006-04-06, 03:46 PM
I'm not entirely sure that 3.0 and 3.5 should be mixed that way...

That said, the Harssaf is immune to fire, being a CR 5 monstrous humanoid.

Is the Lernaen template 3.0 or 3.5? I seem to recall Lernaen hydras being phased out in 3.5, with enormous amounts of fast healing instead of actual immunity.

Shhalahr Windrider
2006-04-06, 03:50 PM
I'm not entirely sure that 3.0 and 3.5 should be mixed that way...
I believe that half-golems are from MM II (Am I right? *I don't have that book).

As such, a download for updating it to 3.5 is available at the WotC website (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a). *As the point of Ikea Tarrasque 2.0 was to update the Ikea concept to 3.5, I am certain that Rei Jin took that into account.

Oh, yeah, I don't think I said it earlier, so I'll say it now:
Way to go, O Master of Stilton Bearded Cheese!

Goumindong
2006-04-06, 04:50 PM
So...Will this work?

As i said earlier, move earth and earthquake wont work because both spells do not do slashing damage, which means that you cant remove one of the heads, which means you cant kill it. Added to the fact that they are immune anyway, because swarms are immune to all spells that have single targets, and in the half-clay golem description, it says that the move earth and earthquake must be targeted directly on top of itself.

Bat and Rat Swarms do it earlier, and Hellwasp swarms do it stronger.

Sacrath
2006-04-06, 07:19 PM
I can see the crazed wizard now...

Golem making wizard, surrounded by hundreds of tiny bat wings: "Haha! Grafting these bats with tiny clay arms was a great idea! Only 400 more to do and I will have an unstobable creature!"

Goumindong
2006-04-06, 09:00 PM
I can see the crazed wizard now...

Golem making wizard, surrounded by hundreds of tiny bat wings: "Haha! Grafting these bats with tiny clay arms was a great idea! Only 400 more to do and I will have an unstobable creature!"


They will if they are evil enough.

Course, they probably couldnt control it either ;)

Rei_Jin
2006-04-06, 10:50 PM
So I then take it that this is being viewed as a success?

Excellent! *;D

The whole thing with this creature is that the ONLY way to harm it is with a Disintegration effect, and that only deals 1d12 damage. Remember, when stacking templates that unless one template states that the special qualities of the previous creature are over-ridden, then they retain all special qualities. As per the templates, a Lernaean creature can only be harmed with a slashing weapon directed at one of it's heads, a disintegrate effect, or a death effect.

When you throw the Half-Clay Golem on there, it gains immunity to Slashing weapons, Death effects, and Disintegrate effects are severely reduced in their effectiveness. However, as a Half Clay Golem can be affected by Move Earth and Earthquake, it gains vulnerability to those effects. It still retains it's immunity to all damage otherwise.

There are three spells in existence that can harm it. Once you deal emough damage to equal half it's hitpoints, one of the heads falls off. Unless you can deal 5 points of fire damage (with either a non-magical fire or one that ignores spell resistance) to the stump, within 1d4 rounds it grows two heads from the stump.

And if you throw that onto a creature with fire immunity, it is impossible to kill. As Wish allows Spell Resistance, you can't Wish it dead.

The lowest Impossible to kill beasty I can come up with as Ash Rat (From MMII) Lernean Multi-Headed Half Clay Golem, at the lowely CR8.

The most painful one I came up with, was throwing this template onto the Tarrasque himself. Yes, he is a magical beast, hence he can have this augmentation. Yes, he is also immune to Fire. Now, the Tarrasque is unkillable. This is what the Tarrasque SHOULD have been like. Also, remember that he is Colossal, hence he could have up to 29 extra heads. With his *insane critical range on his bite, and the x3 damage, I think players would start to fear him.

A 30 Headed Tarrasque would be CR 34, and would have an extra 58 Hitdie, improving his Base Attack Bonus, Saves, etc, not to mention giving him another 29 attacks per round with his heads...

That's 30 attacks with just the bites, at +119 to hit, and each dealing 4d8+21 damage, with a 18-20 x3 crit.

So, you hit him for enough damage to remove a head. It falls off, and in 1d4 rounds, he's got 2 heads in place of the one. Lather, rinse, repeat.

You can't kill it. You just can't.

Maybe one day I'll stat him out....

Goumindong
2006-04-06, 10:57 PM
You can still beat up and then disentegrate dead that ash-rat. All you need to do is beat it up, then deal any damage with a disentegrate effect(less than 0 HP = dead)

In order to be invincible, you have to put it on a swarm, something that is immune to effects that only affect one target(such as attacking the head, cauterizing a head, earthquake[at the target, specific to the clay golem description] or move earth[at the target specific to the clay golem description]). Otherwise you beat it up and disentegrate it dead.

So it doesnt work on the ash rat, it will work on the rat swarm or bat swarm. Also, CR 2 monters for a total of CR 8 as well.

edit: the only way to "kill" the swarm would be with AoE non-sr or non-magical damage enough to scatter it. Unless of course the loeren multiheaded thing is immune to damage that doesnt target the head.

edit 2: Actualy, with the loerenian template(or whatever), any swarm that could take it would be invincible, as the only way to deal damage is with slashing damage to a head, a death effect, or disentegrate. However, swarms are immune to all targeted effects, so it would take an AoE death effect to kill it, but any lorenian swarm will have more than 4 HD, making it immune to the only AoE death effect that i know of.

Rei_Jin
2006-04-06, 11:10 PM
The problem is, that a Lernaen beast is only dead when all of it's head stumps have been sealed with Fire or Acid.

Now, as Acid heals it, and it is Immune to fire, you can knock its hitpoints as low as you like, using any spell you like, and in 1d4 rounds it gets up with twice as many heads, and double the hitpoints. Yah, it won't do a lot of damage to you, but you can't kill it.

Throwing this template onto a Fire Giant would be far better, as it can do a lot of damage.

Godhand
2006-04-06, 11:55 PM
*snip*

The most painful one I came up with, was throwing this template onto the Tarrasque himself. Yes, he is a magical beast, hence he can have this augmentation. Yes, he is also immune to Fire. Now, the Tarrasque is unkillable. This is what the Tarrasque SHOULD have been like. Also, remember that he is Colossal, hence he could have up to 29 extra heads. With his insane critical range on his bite, and the x3 damage, I think players would start to fear him.

A 30 Headed Tarrasque would be CR 34, and would have an extra 58 Hitdie, improving his Base Attack Bonus, Saves, etc, not to mention giving him another 29 attacks per round with his heads...

*snip*

Wow, this is something to have nightmares over.

While I find this beast to be...overwhelmingly scary... the logistics problem it faces by having 30 heads just screams out to me. I know the template says it can have 30 heads...but I'm still trying to picture even the mighty Tarrasque being able to hold up that much bulk and walk around.

In any case, good job. I now know what the unstoppable force looks like (take that Juggernaut!), and its ugly.

Alexin
2006-04-07, 12:03 AM
I think I have found a way to kill most of the proposed creatures.

What you need is a wizard able to cast Gate, and some way to move the creature, such as powerful winds or a sudden torrent of water from a broken dam. What you want to do is have the flood push the creature through a Gate to the negative energy plane. Every round that the creature fails a DC 25 fortitude check, it gains a negative level. After getting a number of negative levels equal to its hit dice, it is slain and turns into a wraith. You can call this victory, or be rigorous and kill the wraith as well.

(It won't work for creatures with a diameter larger than 20, immunity to level drain, a fortitude save greater than 24, or the ability to planeshift. I'm sure these problems can be fixed, however. Creatures immune to level drain, for example, can be sent to the positive energy plane in the hopes of causing the creature to explode after a failed DC 20 fortitude check. At the very least this should increase the minimum CR for an invincible creature.)

Rei_Jin
2006-04-07, 12:19 AM
Unfortunately for you, that doesn't work for anything with the Contruct subtype.

So, you can't use that to kill anything with this template combination. Constructs aren't subject to negative energy.

Sacrath
2006-04-07, 01:25 AM
Bah, if we are going intarplanar, just stuff it in a bag of holding and put it in a portable hole. RAW it will be "lost forever" in the Astral Plane. You would need a big bag for that 30 headed Big T though...

AtomicKitKat
2006-04-07, 03:49 AM
Actually, you don't need to target the stump with fire. As long as the body was entirely within a fire effect(like Fireball), any stumps that were regenerating are considered to have taken fire damage(how much damage is of course dependant on other things).

Adghar
2006-04-07, 04:37 AM
Wait, wait, wait. I'm not that good at slicing cheesery, but two things.

1. Salient divine?

2. What if you beat the Ikea Tarrasque into submission, and then heaped up piles and piles of nonlethal damage on it, using, say, a city? It wouldn't die, per se, but it would be defeated... at least, for the next 6 million years... right? :-/

AtomicKitKat
2006-04-07, 05:44 AM
So anyways, the main flaw in this plan is that currently, all Hydras are Lernean to begin with. It's no longer a subtype. Extrapolating, this also applies to the multi-headed templates. Now they only have main body Fast Healing 10+number of heads(prior to decapitation/regeneration), and they die if targetted by slay living, disintegrate, and one other spell whose name I cannot remember. Stumps still die if seared with fire/acid for a total of 5 before they finish regrowing.

Taliesin
2006-04-07, 06:25 AM
Is the creature immune to someone using Diplomacy or Bluff to make it commit suicide or retreat to its cave for the rest of its life and write goth poetry?

Oh, and what about ability drain?
This link describes seven ways how to kill a tarrasque. Seventh seems quite good for IT 2 too. (using allips to wisdom-drain the creature)
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dkb1/dnd/tarrasque.txt


Once Tarrasque drops to zero wisdom, he falls into a coma; he doesn't wake
up until his wisdom returns. The only way for this to happen is if some
cleric is (a) skilled and wise enough to cast a Restoration spell, (b)
clever enough to get around Tarrasque's spell resistance and Will save,
and (c) stupid enough to think Tarrasque won't kill him when he wakes up.
This seems very unlikely, so Tarrasque ought to be down for quite a while.

hewhosaysfish
2006-04-07, 09:43 AM
iirc no half golem can be applied to a construct, and half golems give you the construct subtype.

If I remember the MMII correctly, you have to make a will save when you become a half-golem: if you fail you become NE and gain the construct type (and traits), other wise you keep your own. I could be wrong.

PhoeKun
2006-04-07, 12:08 PM
Is the creature immune to someone using Diplomacy or Bluff to make it commit suicide or retreat to its cave for the rest of its life and write goth poetry?

Oh, and what about ability drain?
This link describes seven ways how to kill a tarrasque. Seventh seems quite good for IT 2 too. (using allips to wisdom-drain the creature)
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dkb1/dnd/tarrasque.txt



We're looking at a creature who "failed" his will save and became of the construct type. No mind-affecting effects. In many cases, no language. So no, you can't talk your way out of this.

And ability drain is covered by the construct's list o' immunities, so that stupid Allip strategy falls flat on its face (finally).

The Glyphstone
2006-04-07, 12:37 PM
And ability drain is covered by the construct's list o' immunities, so that stupid Allip strategy falls flat on its face (finally).

How does an allip fall flat on its face? They're incorporeal spirits, they can't be tripped... ;D

Bug-a-Boo
2006-04-07, 01:31 PM
How does an allip fall flat on its face? They're incorporeal spirits, they can't be tripped... ;D

The rules of comedy demands that allips should be trippable!

Rei_Jin
2006-04-08, 04:04 PM
Hhhhmm...let's see....

The Lernaean subtype is specific to the Multi-Headed Template, and as the Savage Species hasn't been updated to 3.5, or even an errata printed for it, it stands as correct.

As a Construct, it is immune to non-lethal damage. You can't knock it out, but you could incapacitate it by entrapping it. Your classic entrapment is a Rock to Mud, then Mud to Rock. It can't move.

As I said, this beast isn't unkillable, just difficult to kill.

Of course, if you put the template onto a creature with immunity to fire, it then becomes impossible to kill, just not impossible to defeat.

There is more than one way to skin a cat...

Rigeld2
2006-04-08, 06:38 PM
Something with the Vampire template could kill it, either by sucking its CON dry (since its not immune to ability drain) or by giving it negative levels until it dies.

edit: if the creature fails its save and becomes a construct, then a vampaire can only give it negative levels.

Rei_Jin
2006-04-08, 06:49 PM
It failed its will save, and thus has the Construct Type

This is what the Contruct Type gives you, and is directly from the SRD.


No Constitution score.

Low-light vision.

Darkvision out to 60 feet.

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.

Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.

Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.

Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).

Not at risk of death from massive damage.

Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.

Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.

Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.

Proficient with no armor.

Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

Rigeld2
2006-04-08, 06:58 PM
edit: ignore me, I missed something

Malachite
2006-05-22, 08:16 AM
So in summary, there are only two ways to beat this - knock it to low health somehow (earthquake and move earth?) and disintegrate, or use rock->mud then mud->rock to trap it in a shapeless rock for eternity.

That about right? Now, how to slip this past a DM ;)

Jack_Simth
2006-05-22, 10:11 AM
Look up the Trigger Object version of Trap the Soul - no save, no SR, a Conjouration(Summoning) effect so it's not on his list of immunities, and it doesn't deal damage.

Sure, he's not dead dead, but he's stuck in a rather valuable gem until it's broken (which, if it's dropped into a bag of holding, which is then ruptured...).

SpiderBrigade
2006-05-22, 11:38 AM
That about right? Now, how to slip this past a DM...

Ahh, Malachite, you misunderstand...this is for your DM to use...against you.

Dalcassius
2006-05-22, 11:40 AM
Is there any reason that these templates could not be added to a bat? I'm picturing a familiar with these added on. The Wizard is 20th level and the characters take on its familiar early in their campaign. 8th level. Then many levels later, they face off again, the wizard looking for revenge for the familiar.

Orin_Ironhammer
2006-05-22, 12:43 PM
Would it not be immediately destroyed then when brought to 0 or lower hp per the construct template?

Also, what of bludgeoning damage?

Rei_Jin
2006-05-22, 12:47 PM
As the creator of the Ikea Tarrasque version 2.0, I'm going to request that we let it sleep, lest it be awakened and roused to ire against those who disturb it.

It was a mental exercise, a kind of "mutual assurance" if you will. If my players threaten to Munchkin, I threaten to release him on them.

And yes, whilst you could put this template on a bat I wouldn't recommend it. Yes, you could kill it by reducing it to 0hp. In order to do that you would need to attack it with its one vulnerability, fire. If it is placed onto an Ash Rat or a Fire Giant, or something of that ilk, you cannot kill it. You can certainly defeat it, but you can't kill it. Period.

Like I said, leave him to sleep. Things like this should never see the light of a play session.

Please? Can we leave this thread to die?

Can a mod lock this? Please?

The_Shaman
2006-05-22, 03:22 PM
Sorry... but yes, what about bludgeoning damage? You reduce a head to bloody pulp and then you cauterize... and repeat... and repeat... and repeat...

Warning to all DMs: You risk being hit over the head with something very heavy after the 5th head.

Mr._Blinky
2006-07-08, 01:58 PM
Red half-dragon is immune to fire. Solves one of your weaknesses right there.

Rei_Jin
2006-07-08, 02:13 PM
Mr Blinky, why did you post here? This is Thread-ro-mancy, and I've already requested several times that people NOT post to this thread.

Can we please leave it alone? We know the mechanics of the Ikea Tarrasque 2.0 . I already know how to do many, many things with it. Just let the damn thing sleep.

Hydro
2006-07-14, 09:03 PM
1. To link a thread in your sig is to gladly invite thredromancy. This is a law as old as the internet. I think.

2. You don't have to stick around if you don't want to. Good threads tend to take on a life of their own and grow beyond the origional poster's intent for them. If you have gotten all the feedback that you could possibly want and no longer wish to participate, then that's fine, that is your perogative. What other posters do with their time is not.

3. You aren't the only person on this messageboard, nor the most important. How would you have liked it if one of the other posters came on around page 2 and said "Okay, I'm sick of this thread now, everyone stop posting right now"? Being the origional poster doesn't give you any special rights to terminate it; in fact, if there are other people who would like to continue the discussion, then it is highly inconsiderate of you to try.

4. You've managed to spawn a fun thread. Really. This is an interesting topic. It's silly, but silly is fun. Why not be proud that people think your idea is worth four (or five, or six) pages of attention? Even if, as I said above, you don't feel like giving any more yourself?



I don't really expect people to keep posting now. You've kind of, erm.. killed the fun. Congratulations.

But I'm still curious.
Really dude, what gives? Why are you so offended by the notion of this thread outlasting your own personal interest in it?

Overlord
2006-07-14, 11:48 PM
I would think that posting a link to an old thread should definitely not invite thread necromancy. If people could show restraint, which they generally have, then we wouldn't need to worry about this. Sure, some people will still thread-ro-mancy random, ancient threads, but that can't be helped. Saying that having a link to an old thread in your sig is an invitation to have that thread necromancied doesn't mean that it's acceptable to do so. It just means that it's a bit of a temptation to those who aren't knowledgeable about the rules. (But ignorance of the law is no excuse either, of course)

I think the main reason that he doesn't want people to post in this thread is because, not to point fingers or anything, but people don't seem have anything constructive or otherwise interesting to say about this anymore. The thread no longer needs to be on the front page, and doesn't need to be constantly bumped or thread-o-mancied anymore.

Quietus
2007-03-14, 02:35 AM
The advantage of threadomancy is in things such as this - I'm a relative newcomer to the boards, and had never seen the Ikea Tarrasque. Scary stuff, I wouldn't ever want to meet it in a dark alley. However, there's still the unanswered question of : What about bludgeoning damage?

AtomicKitKat
2007-03-14, 06:20 AM
The idea is that the heads need to be severed, so bludgeoning isn't an issue(supposedly), although I don't think you have restrictions on Improved Sunder, which is what's needed to decapitate.

Bauglir
2007-03-15, 02:57 PM
Half-Clay Golem War Troll. I think that's invincible. Everything but acid is subdual, but it's immune to subdual by virtue of being a construct. Acid still deals lethal, but it is healed because of the half-clay golem. Immunity to anything allowing spell resistance takes care of Wish. CR 15, but the only way I can think of to beat it is Gate. And it's got Int 2, so it wouldn't be really hard to trick it into walking into a demiplane where it can never get out.

On a related matter, I think this topic still has some life in it. Thread-romancy is ok in this case, I think.

Zincorium
2007-03-15, 05:03 PM
Half-Clay Golem War Troll. I think that's invincible. Everything but acid is subdual, but it's immune to subdual by virtue of being a construct. Acid still deals lethal, but it is healed because of the half-clay golem. Immunity to anything allowing spell resistance takes care of Wish. CR 15, but the only way I can think of to beat it is Gate. And it's got Int 2, so it wouldn't be really hard to trick it into walking into a demiplane where it can never get out.

On a related matter, I think this topic still has some life in it. Thread-romancy is ok in this case, I think.

Read the description of regeneration, the last line especially, on page 314. Critters without a constitution score cannot have regeneration. A half golem has to lose it's constitution to become a construct.

Realize, this is the second ikea tarrasque thread, almost all the ideas that have been presented since it was necroed were in the first one. That's why the thread died, because almost all possibilities were exhausted. Unless you can bring something that wasn't present during the first two threads to the table, new books, new errata, new supplements whatever, then it's very unlikely you've come up with an original plan.

Bauglir
2007-03-15, 07:11 PM
Eh, good point. Assuming it makes its will saves, though, it keeps regeneration. And still gains the immunity/healing from acid, and the uber-spell resistance. So, it's just a Tarrasque at a lower CR that can't be wished dead. Nice, but not as good as I'd thought. Apologies. So I suppose one might as well add the Lernaean template and some Hammerblock armor, since war trolls do wear armor... And then it's completely unorginal. So... my bad.