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Almagesto
2011-06-09, 01:10 PM
Yes, you read it right. Iím trying to do THAT without driving my DM insane.

I would like to ask for some help in rebuilding the succubus/incubus monster class (Savage Species) in order to give it a necromantic flavor. I'm doing an 8 lvl Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror) with both the Necropolitan (Libris Mortis) and Phantom (Monster Manual V) templates - acquired at level 4 (bringing me back to 3) and 8, respectively. I've already convinced my DM to let my character "transform" into a devil when he reaches level 9 (thus starting the advancement in the succubus/incubus monster class). I find the abilities boosts impressive Ė especially the boost to Charisma which adds to my animate cap and AC Ė but the special abilities could do with some improvement. The original option was just prestige classing into a Pale Master (Libris Mortis), but two things deterred me from doing it: one, the class kind of sucks to begin with and you lose a caster level; and two, since Iím already undead I would basically be entering it for just the animate undead for free and the touch abilities (of which just Deathless Masterís Touch is worth anything).

So, getting right on to the aspects of the Succubus/Incubus Monster Class I would like to modify:


Racial Traits:

HD: d12 for being undead.
Saves: All good for being outsider.
Darkvision 60 ft. Iíll just add these to the 60 ft. earned when becoming a Necropolitan.
Poison Immunity: I wanted to change this, since Iím already immune to that after becoming a Necropolitan, but I donít know what would not alter the balance of the class. I wouldn't mind just acquiring a Mother Cyst (Libris Mortis) those spells are cool :smallcool:.


Special Abilities

Doom: Iíve already maximized my Intimidate and I have a fear aura due to the Dread Necromancer Class. Should I change this for something else? If so, to what? Maybe Animate Undead?
Ethereal Jaunt: I already have Incorporal Jaunt from the Phantom template (Monster Manual V), and I honestly donít see any difference between them. So I was thinking changing it for Awaken Undead (Libris Mortis).



Also, regarding my spellcastingÖ thereís really nothing I can do, right? Iíll be stuck at 8 th lvl Dread Necromancer casting power? Anyway, in the end I figure I would be something like: Undead Outsider (Augmented, Chaotic, Evil, Native) PC, right?

This is my first homebrew, so please be gentle :smallsmile: Thanks for your help :smallbiggrin:.

Delegreg
2011-06-10, 10:04 AM
Well, you'll find the savage species table is 3.0, in 3.5 the succubus has been terribly nerfed, but you should find an updated progression table on ENWorld (google succubus monster class and you'll find it)

I suggest you take a look at this monster competition entry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6741111&postcount=8). This seems quite powerful, but the flavour looks like what you're after.

If you want, I'd gladly build this monster class for you.

Almagesto
2011-06-10, 11:29 AM
Thanks for replying, Delereg :smallsmile:

I've checked the Resurrection Woman and I find it quite interesting. The one thing that instantly struck me as overpowering of the class was the Aura of Profanity. I mean... really? That's so cool ! You can just walk by any graveyard and come back 1d6 later to find out the local population's ancestors are now at your beck and call. One question, though. The ability states that non-fresh corpses rise as either skeletons or zombies; but what about the fresh corpses? Do they rise as something better like, say, a bloodhulk or a wraith or something like that? The DC for intelligent undead should be higher, though.

However, that particular monster class would lack the abilities I find most interesting in a succubus/incubus:


Flying
Damage resistance
Tongues
Charisma dependent abilities. This is actually very important, because the extra points in Deflection granted by the Phantom template, combinted with the kiss+suggestion and the spell-like abilities can mean NO combat at all if played correctly or minor bruises at the worst.


I also checked this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169477), but it doesn't add up to what I wanted.

Also, do you think my modifications - as outlined in my previous posts - are well balanced? Do you think I should also invest in spellstitching? I wasn't planning on really investing much in Wisdom, but it might work for getting a free animate undead. What do you think?

Halae
2011-06-18, 05:04 PM
Spellstitching is ALWAYS something you want if you're a high wisdom undead - the spell of your choice as an SLA? Holy damn. get animate Dread Warrior, which has no HD cap yet costs experience, and you don' have to pay the experience, instead just raising up another dread warrior every day.

Swapping poison immunity out for a Mother Cyst is pretty cool. The spells it gives are invaluable. However, Swapping doom and ethereal jaunt out for a way to make a free, very highly capped number of undead that are intelligent and retain class levels? powerful. very powerful.

Almagesto
2011-06-19, 01:01 AM
Spellstitching is ALWAYS something you want if you're a high wisdom undead - the spell of your choice as an SLA? Holy damn. get animate Dread Warrior, which has no HD cap yet costs experience, and you don' have to pay the experience, instead just raising up another dread warrior every day.

How much Wisdom do I need for Animate Dread Warrior ?


Swapping poison immunity out for a Mother Cyst is pretty cool. The spells it gives are invaluable. However, Swapping doom and ethereal jaunt out for a way to make a free, very highly capped number of undead that are intelligent and retain class levels? powerful. very powerful.

When you say powerful do you mean unbalanced?

Halae
2011-06-19, 07:44 AM
How much Wisdom do I need for Animate Dread Warrior ?18, I believe. I'm AFB, so I can't say for sure, but I know the absolute least is 16. That gets you a level 6 spell of your choice as an SLA 1/day


When you say powerful do you mean unbalanced?
Not really - a creative DM can make a horde of undead rather pointless, or only partially worth it. You're just mitigating the costs, which is pretty bloody awesome. I would allow it in my games, and I'm fairly good at catching things people will break.

Almagesto
2011-09-20, 01:27 AM
Harnel, if you were to place this guy as a monster in your campaign, what CR would you assign to him: <20, 20, 20+ ??

Almagesto
2011-12-21, 11:50 AM
OK, so now I'm DEFINITELY just posting the stats for this thing as a monster. I would've played it, had the campaign not imploded due to several reasons; but, alas, that is the faith of many a well thought campaign-specific character. I'll post this soon.