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Giant Panda
2011-06-12, 08:15 AM
Hey there, I'm looking to start playing D&D, but have no idea about, well, pretty much anything. I'm just looking for a little advice. Not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but we can roll with it for now.

I've had a little experience with PnP RPG's before, but only a few games of Dark Heresy, so I don't really know how D$D "works," given the number of editions, like 3.5e, 3.0e, 4.0 etc. The sum total of my D&D experience is one game where the DM did all the dice rolling, so I have no idea how any of it worked, and a big chunk of gameplay on Neverwinter Nights, which I think was 3.0e?

Are the differences in these just rules-based, or are they different games, so to speak? Which would be best for a newbie, or does it not really matter? What are the general differences between them, if any? If I start playing (online to start, on this forum!) what rule-books would I need, or can you get them online?

I haven't had time for more than a brief check to see if there is another thread very similar like this, since I need to rush off, so sorry if it's a dupe. And thanks for any responses!

Loki_42
2011-06-12, 08:56 AM
Are the differences in these just rules-based, or are they different games, so to speak? Which would be best for a newbie, or does it not really matter? What are the general differences between them, if any? If I start playing (online to start, on this forum!) what rule-books would I need, or can you get them online?

The easiest editions to jump into would be 3.5e or 4e, which are unfortunately very different from each other. They share the same basic mechanic of rolling a D20 + modifiers to beat some target number, but beyond that, they play very differently. 4e is arguably easier, but 3.5e is more complex. 3.5e also probably has a larger player base on these forums, it being what the comic is based on. If you do play 3.5e, you can get (mostly) everything you need to play in the three core rulebooks at this site (http://www.d20srd.org/).

Glad to help.

Eldan
2011-06-12, 09:11 AM
Note, however, that the SRD isn't very helpful on it's own. While most of the rules are in there, basic character creation and levelling up aren't, and it lacks all the fluff and much of the explanations. You might, with some work, cobble it together yourself with the help of NWN, which includes character building, but I wouldn't recommend it.

There are indeed many editions of D&D. Probably close to a dozen, if you include all the variants of first edition and differentiate between D&D and AD&D (advanced D&D, which was around during 2nd edition).

The only edition still in print is fourth edition, which had very different rules from the earlier editions, and a lot of people, especially on this site, violently dislike it. It is, overall, more streamlined than third edition, and probably the most balanced of all editions. Especially third edition suffered from the problem that some classes, especially the spellcasters, overshadowed more mundane characters to a degree that those were almost insignificant in comparison, if the player knew what he was doing. On the other hand, many players, me included, feel that 4th edition went too far in this, and made the game too focused on the combat, with not enough abilities with creative applications available.

Any edition of D&D has three core books, the Player's Handbook, which contains character building, classes, spells, races and so on, the Dungeon Master's Guide, which contains advice for the game master and items, and the Monster Manual, which contains the rules for antagonists. You would probably need all of these three, though for third edition, you might get by with the SRD instead of the monster manual.

Furthermore, as opposed to Dark Heresy and similar games, D&D has no defined world it is set in. There are some assumptions given by what kind of classes and creatures there are, but in the end, the dungeon master makes his own world. There are special Campaign Settings you can buy, of course, but a lot of the freedom and excitement comes from making your own world.

Yora
2011-06-12, 09:24 AM
If you#re starting completely new, I would advice 4th edition or Pathfinder. Pathfinder is a variant of 3.5e published by a third party publisher, but has the major advantage of being still in print, which 3.5e is not. I think it would be a lot easier to get your hands on Pathfinder books than 3.5e books.
Older editions of D&D (3.0 and everything earlier) I would not recommend, because they have been fading into obscurity for over a decade and it's a lot more difficult to find anyone who knows those rules and could help you with questions.

It really comes down to what type of play you want to have.
4th Edition is very straightforward and works very well if you want easy character creation and then set out to kill monsters. Easy to learn, and easy to play.
3.5e/Pathfinder is considerably more complex, but also allows for a much higher degree of making characters exatly as you want to and that are very different from the characters other players make. It also seems to be much better at handling non-combat situations, like exploring ruins, building magical protections for castles, and so on.

The SRD is great when you already know the rules, but want to look up one specific detail you're not completely sure about. In those situations, you can look up everything you'll ever need from the files. But to learn the rules, it's completely unsuitable, as it doesn't explain the very basics at all.

Loki_42
2011-06-12, 09:25 AM
I imagine if you're going to be doing forum play, you'll have other people to explain the things you can't get from the SRD. You'll eventually want to get books, both core and splat, but if you've got a good DM and Players, you'll do fine with the srd.

byaku rai
2011-06-12, 09:32 AM
Most of my experience is with 3.5e, although I have studied Dark Heresy's mechanic. In DH, you roll d10s in order to beat target numbers. In D&D, pretty much every action is determined by rolling a d20 (twenty-sided die) and adding various bonuses and penalties to try to beat a target number.

If you are completely new to D&D, I would suggest going with a Fighter. There is very little about the class which is complicated, and it's better to have (rolling stats + rolling hp + buying/using equipment) than (rolling stats + rolling hp + buying/using equipment + figuring out how class abilities work/using them + memorizing what spells do), especially for a complete beginner.

Urpriest
2011-06-12, 10:50 AM
Most of my experience is with 3.5e, although I have studied Dark Heresy's mechanic. In DH, you roll d10s in order to beat target numbers. In D&D, pretty much every action is determined by rolling a d20 (twenty-sided die) and adding various bonuses and penalties to try to beat a target number.

If you are completely new to D&D, I would suggest going with a Fighter. There is very little about the class which is complicated, and it's better to have (rolling stats + rolling hp + buying/using equipment) than (rolling stats + rolling hp + buying/using equipment + figuring out how class abilities work/using them + memorizing what spells do), especially for a complete beginner.

While this is true, Fighters take more work to build well. I'd recommend Barbarian instead, since their class features are generally useful.

Warlawk
2011-06-12, 11:08 AM
While this is true, Fighters take more work to build well. I'd recommend Barbarian instead, since their class features are generally useful.

I was going to point out that exact same thing. It can be pretty difficult to build a fighter that is useful (depends heavily on your groups optimization level) when you're a new player.

Instead of barbarian, I would recommend looking at the free online release of the Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2). It's a bit more complex than either barbarian or fighter, but also generally considered to be more fun, has more options and has an easier learning curve. People might say that the mechanics are more complex, but frankly if you can play Dark Heresy you can probably figure out a warblade (Please note I'm not familiar with DH, but I am familiar with 40K tabletop and some of the past RPGs games workshop has done, so that statement is just an educated guess).

Giant Panda
2011-06-12, 11:38 AM
Wow, thanks for all the replies! Looking at the SrD reference, I'm pretty sure I can puzzle through a PbP game on here.

Since the biggest playerbase here is 3.5, I'll probably go for that. Is the SrD for 3.5e?

As for classes, I generally dislike heavily-combat focused martial classes like the Warrior/Barbarian. The Warblade class looks like a good starting class, but as above, I don't really want to play it. I usually lean toward support/utility classes, or spellcasters. However, spells look a lot more complex than expected, especially for a newbie, so I'll pass.

So, a new player like me is now going to ignore all your advice towards playing a warrior-esque class, and start planning a Rogue as my first class. It's a martial class, with sneak attacks and stealth, so combat isn't just a straightforward "Rush in, whack with sword," affair, and has plenty of utility - stealth, picking locks, etc. I'd probably play a somewhat diplomatic variant, with high charisma. I think this shouldn't be too difficult to play on my first game, and provides a nice option for roleplay.

oxybe
2011-06-12, 11:39 AM
the logical answer would be to see what's played nearby and go play that. you'll learn much faster with a group willing to teach you the game then you would buying books and crossing your fingers that you got the right ones.

my personal choice is that i would say go for 4th ed. the game tends to spell things out a bit more clearly/give a bit more direction while giving the player a much larger margin for error then previous editions.

3rd ed is more open, if you will, but you're largely left to your own devices and it's much easier to get stuck with the various trap options (looks good/ok on paper, but don't help you much in play)

regardless of edition you choose if you plan on running a game i recommend you pick up (or at least borrow/look at) the 4th ed Dungeon Master's Guide. the crunch (the rules) is edition specific but it's probably the best DMG for offering advice on running a game, giving you an idea of different player types, story & pacing, etc...

Strawberries
2011-06-12, 12:10 PM
the logical answer would be to see what's played nearby and go play that. you'll learn much faster with a group willing to teach you the game then you would buying books and crossing your fingers that you got the right ones.

Uhm...at the risk of repeating myself from other threads, there is also the play by post section (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3) on this site. I bring it up because I learned to play D&D 3.5 just by using the SRD (already linked) and joining pbps on this site, so I know it can be done. You can give it a try, if you want. :smallwink:

RndmNumGen
2011-06-12, 12:16 PM
Uhm...at the risk of repeating myself from other threads, there is also the play by post section (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3) on this site. I bring it up because I learned to play D&D 3.5 just by using the SRD (already linked) and joining pbps on this site, so I know it can be done. You can give it a try, if you want. :smallwink:

Good point. If you have a group to play with in-person, I would highly recommend that, but in lack of that option playing online is a good way to jump into the game(I don't play online anymore, but I did get started that way).

oxybe
2011-06-12, 12:31 PM
i've honestly tried play by posts but i generally find the pacing a wee bit too slow or disorganized in those games. i could have just had bad luck, but i try not to recommend these for first timers.

i find it's easier to have the prospective player sit meet with an existing group pregame if possible, discuss the general ins-and-outs of the game then simply sit in the session to get an idea of how those ins-and-outs work "in the wild", take a few personal notes on things they've noticed, then ask the GM/players about them at the end of the session.

me and my group have introduced several players to the game simply by letting them sit in on our sessions (we play at the FLGS) and answering their questions.

Savannah
2011-06-12, 03:49 PM
Is the SrD for 3.5e?

Yes, that's the 3.5 SRD; there is no SRD for 4e.

I'll add my standard offer - If you need help making your character or need something explained that the SRD doesn't really cover, I'm always happy to help, either via PMs or in this thread :smallsmile:

HalfDragonCube
2011-06-12, 03:57 PM
On brilliantgameologists there is a guide to free stuff from sourcebooks released on the web by WotC.

*Rummages in bookmarks*

Here we go!

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.80

It has some interesting stuff on it.

Honest Tiefling
2011-06-12, 04:12 PM
Neverwinter Nights is based off of 3.0, not 3.5. There are a few changes from PnP you might want to be aware of, if you choose to play 3.5 instead of 4e:

*Discipline does not exist as a skill. It is replaced with special checks, check out the combat section under the SRD.

*Paladins and Rangers gain a caster level equal to half of their class level, so a level 10 paladin is a level 5 caster.

*Wizards do not gain the nice familiars without a feat. Normally they get cats and things which are not useful for combat.

*Rangers do not get the nice animal companion that druids do. They get a much weaker version.

*Neverwinter Nights was also set in Faerun, which is an alternative setting. Other settings will have different locations, religions and restrictions on divine classes.

*There are skills like climb, swim, etc. These are nice to get around.

*Ability bonuses do not stack. You cannot get a ring with +4 Strength and stack it with Bull's Strength to get 1d4+5 strength added.

*Items have particular affinities. Depending on your DM, you might have to get particular bonuses on particular gear.

*Armor with no Arcane Spell Failure is rare.

For your first class, since you have some idea how things work I'd go with Druid or Cleric. If you start off at 1st level, neither is unmanageable. You can go caster with either, through I recommend starting off as a healbot, possibly a buffbot if you feel more comfortable with your spells. You are less likely to set your party on fire with this method, and if you do not like what you get for spells, redo them.

But be aware of casting in combat, as you will not be picking up a lot of things with +concentration, so your concentration skill modifier will be much less. If you find a good party, ask about healing outside of combat.

MeeposFire
2011-06-12, 04:32 PM
What I reccomend is seeing if you can find a group and play what they play. Buying all the books in any edition by yourself is expensive and you will need to find players that want to play (and they may not want to DM so then you might be forced to which is bad for many starting gamers).

If you can't find a group or all your friends want to play but have never done so check your local library. Some libraries have D&D books in them that you can take out so you can make a choice on which edition your group likes best. If that is not an option head to your local book store (or large book store if the local ones won't let you read a book for a while) and decide there.

If you went 3e D&D I recommend the warlock (complete arcane) or dragon fire adept (dragon magic) class for you. Gives you "spells" but is not confusing and has constant uses (so you always fell magical). 3es biggest advantage is a lot of options on different subsystems that all work differently. Its biggest disadvantages are the number of subsystems and DMing is a lot harder.

4e leans even more on tactical group combat but is a lot harder to solo (hence the meme "don't split the party"). There are a lot of classes there I could suggest though to figure that out I would need a feel on what kind of role you would like to play. If you like to buff maybe an artificer or if you like to blast perhaps a sorcerer. Biggest advantage to 4e is how much easier to run 4e D&D. If you are forced to DM early it is about the best edition to use since the 4e DMG is very new player friendly and has great advice and easier to use encounter mechanics. Biggest downfall is the relative lack of mechanical diversity. For instance warriors and mages use the same basic mechanic in 4e (though the effects are very different) so if you want each character to have a completely different designed mechanic then 4e D&D is not going to help you much (though the newer books are creating mechanical diversity starting in essentials and continued in the new heroes of shadow book so it is not fully homogeneous). As an example if you ever played the original dragon age origins 4e is very similar to that. Warriors have "powers" in that game that they can use that operate in a similar manner to spells from mages but they have completely different effects.

Illithid Savant
2011-06-12, 07:41 PM
{Scrubbed}

To play 4th edition, all you need is the player's handbook for the rules and a subscription to D&D Insider for character creation, monsters, abilities, feats, equipment, etc. Whoever is DMing should have the Dungeon Master's Guide just for the advice it gives.

squeekenator
2011-06-12, 08:23 PM
{Scrubbed the post, scrub the quote.}

To play 4th edition, all you need is the player's handbook for the rules and a subscription to D&D Insider for character creation, monsters, abilities, feats, equipment, etc. Whoever is DMing should have the Dungeon Master's Guide just for the advice it gives.

Well that's an unbiased post if I've ever seen one. :P I learned 3.5 by reading through the core books a few times and, armed with exactly zero experience, DMed a campaign all the way to level 21 for 9 people who had never played it before. It's not really that difficult to learn.

MeeposFire
2011-06-12, 08:31 PM
{Scrubbed the post, scrub the quote.}

To play 4th edition, all you need is the player's handbook for the rules and a subscription to D&D Insider for character creation, monsters, abilities, feats, equipment, etc. Whoever is DMing should have the Dungeon Master's Guide just for the advice it gives.

I wouldn't put it like that because first I think that saying on e is done by amateurs and one by professionals could be seen as insulting to the 3e side and that it is not quite accurate. Lets say we have person A and person B and they both order sets of stuff to make a vehicle.

Person A orders from 3e. When the stuff arrives he gets parts to all his vehicular needs but they are in tiny pieces that you can put together in different ways. For instance you get a bicycle seat, spark plugs, rocket boosters, and all sorts of other stuff. Now person A can put them all together so he can make a car, or he can make a vehicle with a car frame with a bike seat rocket boosters and a unicycle wheel. Will it work. You will only find out when you try it (play it in the case of the game). It may be super awesome and really unique or it could explode on launch. Either way you probably had fun making it.

Person B gets the 4e kit and it comes for the same vehicles. Now the 4e kits stuff comes more complete, instead of a bike seat you get the whole bike frame completed. This makes completing the vehicles easier and with a higher likelihood of success. This also means that you are slightly more restricted in how you can combine things. With some work you could probably make a bicycle helicopter but making the Frankenstein combos from 3e are probably not happening.

Techsmart
2011-06-12, 09:09 PM
{Scrubbed the post, scrub the quote.}

To play 4th edition, all you need is the player's handbook for the rules and a subscription to D&D Insider for character creation, monsters, abilities, feats, equipment, etc. Whoever is DMing should have the Dungeon Master's Guide just for the advice it gives.

That's just... no. That's a horrible analogy. I liked Yora's explanation, but if I were to compare (Might not be as good an example for non-scripters), I would say 4th edition is like making mods for fallout3 with GECK. The assets are provided and all the tools are right in front of you. In exchange, you are much more limited in your options without going outside the base system. 3.5 is more like UDK. You have to provide/build more of your levels, but you can make the level look EXACTLY how you want it to, and make your addon/game completely unique.
If you are interested in 3.5, I would probably echo the opinion of consider pathfinder instead, unless someone in the immediate area runs 3.5, then do that. pathfinder is 3.5, except it came later, was tweaked a bit, and feels (to me) to be a bit more flavorful.

Zeb The Troll
2011-06-13, 12:18 AM
There are indeed many editions of D&D. Probably close to a dozen, if you include all the variants of first edition and differentiate between D&D and AD&D (advanced D&D, which was around during 2nd edition).This is misleading at best. There is no such thing as 2nd Edition Basic D&D. 2nd Edition is Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. So is 1st Edition, for that matter. The original boxed set and it's expanded rulesets were Basic D&D. Then came AD&D (later called 1st Edition). Then, about the time you were born, came AD&D 2nd Edition. 3rd Edition again removed the "Advanced" designator. So, despite what might be extrapolated by the nomenclature, there are five distinct editions of D&D (OD&D [1974], AD&D [1978], AD&D 2nd Ed. [1989], 3E [2000]/3.5E [2003]*, and 4E [2008]).

*3.5 was not a replacement ruleset like other edition changes have been. It was merely a replacement ruleset for 3.0 that changed some things the designers didn't like (like buff durations). It's much akin to a patch in an online game, or a HUGE errata, if you will. They didn't change enough to make the game unrecognizable; they just tweaked a few things.