[3.5] (Spelljammer) Sharkentine Empire Troops. (Please Critique)

[Pika...]

Hi, could use some advice on this race. The first I have made as a Homebrew meant to be a big reoccurring enemy race (Thing Wraith or Jaffa) along with their will-broken slave race the Crucians (Official D&D race).


Some info on this Speljammer race:
1. They are from a cluster of solar system spheres (think my version of a "galaxy" in the Material Plane/Spelljammer Plane) which is on the far/outer reaches of unknown space.
2. There they have not met a race able to take them, and their limited Spelljamming abilities, on. They have conquered most of their cluster with only a few worlds/spheres remaining free.
3. There are no standard races, nor any of the main spelljammer influences in this sphere minus the Neogi who act in secret supplying the Sharkentine Empire with it's only method of Spelljamming: Lifejammers (aka Helms that drain life from a pilot/victim/slave for power).
4. Mechanically they are meant to function in "squads". Normally four Sharkentine Empire Basic Warriors (1) led by a Sharkentine Empire Squad Leader.
5. Squad of higher armored slaves are also used in the form of four Crucian warriors led by a single Sharkentine Empire Basic Warrior (1).
6. The reason I did not armor the Sharkentines is because they are an aquatic race, so metal is out, and since they have +4 natural and are so deadly in combat no race in their native cluster of spheres have been able to take them on so they see no need for improving their gear in the moment.
7. I am running an E6 game, so they will be used extensively for a while without becoming "weaker" by usual D&D terms.
8. They only use (or possibly know how to make) Turtle Ships (aka "Battle Boats"), especially since turtles are kinda numerous here...
9. Now that these strange alien PCs are here from some unknown spheres they Sharkentine Empire is VERY eager to interrogate them. And then maybe see what they taste like in clam soup. :smallbiggrin:
10. Their "Water Tanks" provide 12 hours of Clean Breathable Water, and four hours of Fouled Water. (As the mechanics for Fouled Air in Spelljammer)



Now to the mechanics:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/t1201.jpg
Sharkentine Empire Basic Warrior (1)
Sharkentine Empire Basic Warrior (1)
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Shark)/Aquatic
Hit Dice: 2d8+1d8+3(19 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), Swim 60 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+4 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+4
Attack: Bite +5 (1d6+3/x2) or Bayonet +4 melee (1d4+3/19-20 ×2) or Speargun +3 ranged (1d10/×2) [Move Action to reload]
Full Attack: Bite +0 (1d6+3/x2) and Bayonet +4 melee (1d4+3/19-20 ×2) or Speargun +3 ranged (1d10/×2) [Move Action to reload]
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Backpack to breathe while in air.
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +0, Will +0
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +2, Spot +3, Survival +2
Feats: Weapon Focus: (Bite), Weapon Focus: (Speargun)
Environment: Under Water
Organization: Squad of four with Squad Leader.
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: Standard, plus advanced spear gun.
Alignment: Usually TN, but naturally vicious/violent
Advancement: By character class
LA: +1



http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/SharkentineEmpireSquadLeader.png
Sharkentine Empire Squad Leader
Sharkentine Empire Squad Leader (Warrior 3)
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Shark)/Aquatic
Hit Dice: 2d8+3d8+5(29 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+4 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+7
Attack: Bite +9 (1d6+4/x2) or Bayonet +8 melee (1d4+4/19-20 ×2) or Speargun +6 ranged (1d10/×2) [Move Action to reload]
Full Attack: Bite +4 (1d6+4/x2) and Bayonet +8 melee (1d4+4/19-20 ×2) or Speargun +6 ranged (1d10/×2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: 3x Coral Grenade. 5ft. Radius. (1d4 Shrapnel + Poison). Poison is like Sassone leaf residue.
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Backpack to breathe while in air.
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +5, Survival +4
Feats: Weapon Focus: (Bite), Weapon Focus: (Speargun)
Environment: Under Water
Organization: Accompanied by squad of four basics.
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: Standard, plus advanced spear gun+grenades.
Alignment: Usually TN, but naturally vicious/violent
Advancement: By character class
LA: +1


http://www.rpgminiatures.com/acatalog/Crucian.jpg
Crucian Slaves
See appropriate D&D book (I use by D&D minis card...LoL)
Used as both troops, and "food" for their Lifejammers.





So, thoughts on these guys? Any changes you can suggest? Improvements? Likes or dislikes about them?

Many Pikas in advance!


ps. Any other aquatic slave races you can suggest?

[Pika...]

Please, I am new to making creatures/races, I could use some help.


Here are one of the other "Slave Races" of the Sharkentine Empire I have just finished. This race is meant to be very calm, somewhat peaceful, and very wise. They serve their Sharkentine "Masters" begrudgingly, and are secretly building a fleet of Squid Ships (from Spelljammer) for an eventual rebellion.



http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs45/i/2009/105/4/7/Octo_Sapien_by_The_Artieful.jpg


Sharkentine Empire Octo-Sapien Slave
Sharkentine Empire Octo-Sapien Slave
Size/Type: Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 2d8+d6[Expert 1]+1 (20 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft. (4 squares), swim 60 ft.
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4
Attack: 6x Arms +7 melee (1d3+3/x2)
Full Attack: 6x Arms +7 melee (1d3+3/x2) and bite +2 melee (1d4+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Ink Cloud, jet, Low-Light+Dark vision
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +5
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 19, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 10
Skills: Craft (Any One Skill) +9, Craft (Any One Skill) +6,, Craft (Any One Skill) +6, Craft (Any One Skill) +6,Escape Artist +13, Hide +11, Listen +2, Spot +5, Swim +9
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus: (Any one skill)
Gear: Robes, Artisain’s Tools, Water-Brathing Tank.
Environment: Warm aquatic
Organization: “Councils” of three.
Challenge Rating: 2
Advancement: By Class Levels
Level Adjustment: +2

“Always calm, collected, and seemingly emotionless they are the polar opposites of the Sharkentine “Masters”, whom they serve grudgingly.” ~The Robed Shell



Thoughts? Does the CR fit? Balanced?

[Pika...]

By the way, any ideas for how to make the Porpoise humanoid from Savage Species with a twist? Something more fun, and challenging?

[tzaan]

the most obvious aquatic slave race is Skum from the MM. If your Sharkentine empire is techno/magically advanced then you've got the ability to produce the slime from aboleths that make people into skum (refluffed of course).

Would be a fitting punishment for rebellious slaves/POWs and so on...

[The Witch-King]

I like everything you've done here. The whole aquatic race in Spelljammer thing is cool and I like that you've got minis for your troops. I do really like what you've done but I have to ask why for stats you didn't just use the Sahuagin or Locathah and just file the names off? That said I look forward to seeing what else you care to show us about these guys.

I would especially like to see more things like the water tanks and coral grenades that make these guys unique. About those, by the way--don't the water devices scrub the CO2 out of the water and just replace it with oxygen from the outside air when in airy environs? If you could build a magical space-traveling ship, you should be able to filter out a little CO2 at least while there's outside air around. And for the coral grenades, I would up the damage to something like 4d4 but state that each die is rolled separately against DR so if you have DR 1, it effectively does 4d4-4. And wouldn't a ten-foot radius be better than a five-foot radius? I mean, better for the purposes of representing a grenade, not better for the Sharkentines! :)

One last note--I don't have an idea of how but it would be cool to see some sort of a use of electric eels as a weapon. Maybe a cannon that's full of water and electric eels that throws lightning bolts or some kind of lasso/grapping weapon that throws an electric eel around an opponent and ties him up and shocks him at the same time!

[Cieyrin]

There are a couple problems with feats and damage that I can see. Firstly, the Sharkentines only have a single natural attack, meaning they get it at 1.5 Str bonus, so +1 damage across the board. For the Octosapiens, their bite should be secondary, meaning half Str to damage, meaning they only have +1 on the bite's damage. Secondly, the Sharkentines should have a 2nd feat, considering the Basic Warriors have 3 HD and thus a feat at 1st and 3rd level. The same for the Squad Leader. Thirdly, none of your races actually meet the BAB requirements for their feats, Improved Natural Attack requires BAB +4 and Weapon Finesse requires BAB +1, neither of which are met with the first HD of Monstrous Humanoid. There's precedent for creatures having Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, which I would suggest for the Octosapien and making their 1st level feat Skill Focus(Craft(Any One)), which makes them better at their jobs. The underground may have them switch Skill Focus for Multiweapon Fighting and wield shortswords or something like that. For the Sharkentines, I'd switch to Weapon Focus(Bite), keep the damage at 1d6 like Medium Sharks and Power Attack, which fits with their strong arm tactics.

The final bit I've noticed is the LAs seem off to me. Sharkentines have Str +4, Con +2, Int -2, Cha -2, darkvision, a bite and a swim speed (which makes me notice the lack of Swim skill score, which should be +10 without any ranks), along with unimpeded land movement and +4 natural armor, which is really good for LA +0. Probably too good, putting them in line with Gnolls, who are LA +1 and have 2 racial HD. I'd match the gnolls for LA. The octosapiens are even more uber, with +6 Str, +8 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +6 Wis, +2 natural armor, improved grab, the ink cloud, jet, 6 slams and a bite, equal land and swim speeds, not to mention the innumerable skill bonii they seem to have that their 15 skill points and ability scores don't seem to take care of. They're at least LA +2, if not +3, and makes me wonder how they became slaves in the first place, if for nothing besides plot and racial temperament. They outclass the Sharkentines quite easily in single combat, making me think the Sharkies must have a breeding advantage on the Octos or something.

Despite my above comments, I do find them interesting, just mechanically rough right now. With a little work, you could get them into good shape, methinks. Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

[Zaydos]

Warriors have d8 hit dice, not d10, and the sharkentines don't qualify for improved natural weapon, also bite for a medium creature is normally 1d6 so if they did have the feat it should be 1d8.

The Squad leader should have +1 to one ability score (he has levels and 4+ HD).

Also how did the race with +2 Str (assuming that like everything else with warrior levels they're using the non-elite array), +4 Natural Armor, and a bite attack enslave the race with 6 arms and a much better over all racial ability score modifiers and +3 natural armor?

[The Witch-King]

Also how did the race with +2 Str (assuming that like everything else with warrior levels they're using the non-elite array), +4 Natural Armor, and a bite attack enslave the race with 6 arms and a much better over all racial ability score modifiers and +3 natural armor?

I'm really surprised people are asking this. I mean, it's not like on most fantasy worlds that humans are slaves to gnolls or trolls or illithids or any of the dozens of species that are out there with a higher LA than humans.

I mean, there's tons of potential reasons the Sharkentines could have won: Superior tactics. Superior strategy. Better leadership. Better technology. Superior numbers. Better organization. Better spies. Better lines of communication between their forces. Superior military will--perhaps the Sharkentines were prepared to sacrifice more wealth to have a larger military and more peaceful races didn't build up any thing like what the Sharkentines had. Simple treachery perhaps? The Cylons of classic Battlestar Galactica couldn't fight worth spit but they managed to destroy the Colonies by launching a massive ambush in the middle of what was supposed to be a peace treaty signing.

[Pika...]

the most obvious aquatic slave race is Skum from the MM. If your Sharkentine empire is techno/magically advanced then you've got the ability to produce the slime from aboleths that make people into skum (refluffed of course).

Would be a fitting punishment for rebellious slaves/POWs and so on...

Like the idea, but they have to be from Human stock according to the MM. I guess I can hand-wave that, though.



There are a couple problems with feats and damage that I can see. Firstly, the Sharkentines only have a single natural attack, meaning they get it at 1.5 Str bonus, so +1 damage across the board. For the Octosapiens, their bite should be secondary, meaning half Str to damage, meaning they only have +1 on the bite's damage. Secondly, the Sharkentines should have a 2nd feat, considering the Basic Warriors have 3 HD and thus a feat at 1st and 3rd level. The same for the Squad Leader. Thirdly, none of your races actually meet the BAB requirements for their feats, Improved Natural Attack requires BAB +4 and Weapon Finesse requires BAB +1, neither of which are met with the first HD of Monstrous Humanoid. There's precedent for creatures having Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, which I would suggest for the Octosapien and making their 1st level feat Skill Focus(Craft(Any One)), which makes them better at their jobs. The underground may have them switch Skill Focus for Multiweapon Fighting and wield shortswords or something like that. For the Sharkentines, I'd switch to Weapon Focus(Bite), keep the damage at 1d6 like Medium Sharks and Power Attack, which fits with their strong arm tactics.

The final bit I've noticed is the LAs seem off to me. Sharkentines have Str +4, Con +2, Int -2, Cha -2, darkvision, a bite and a swim speed (which makes me notice the lack of Swim skill score, which should be +10 without any ranks), along with unimpeded land movement and +4 natural armor, which is really good for LA +0. Probably too good, putting them in line with Gnolls, who are LA +1 and have 2 racial HD. I'd match the gnolls for LA. The octosapiens are even more uber, with +6 Str, +8 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +6 Wis, +2 natural armor, improved grab, the ink cloud, jet, 6 slams and a bite, equal land and swim speeds, not to mention the innumerable skill bonii they seem to have that their 15 skill points and ability scores don't seem to take care of. They're at least LA +2, if not +3, and makes me wonder how they became slaves in the first place, if for nothing besides plot and racial temperament. They outclass the Sharkentines quite easily in single combat, making me think the Sharkies must have a breeding advantage on the Octos or something.

Despite my above comments, I do find them interesting, just mechanically rough right now. With a little work, you could get them into good shape, methinks. Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

WOW. I really messed these creatures up. :smallfrown:

Thanks a ton for helping me correct them! Will update them now to your corrections.



Warriors have d8 hit dice, not d10, and the sharkentines don't qualify for improved natural weapon, also bite for a medium creature is normally 1d6 so if they did have the feat it should be 1d8.

The Squad leader should have +1 to one ability score (he has levels and 4+ HD).

Also how did the race with +2 Str (assuming that like everything else with warrior levels they're using the non-elite array), +4 Natural Armor, and a bite attack enslave the race with 6 arms and a much better over all racial ability score modifiers and +3 natural armor?

Thanks again for the corrections.

As for how they enslaved the Octo-Sapiens? Well, my fluff was Spelljammer technology. Their "edge" in this sector of the Material Plane.




I like everything you've done here. The whole aquatic race in Spelljammer thing is cool and I like that you've got minis for your troops. I do really like what you've done but I have to ask why for stats you didn't just use the Sahuagin or Locathah and just file the names off? That said I look forward to seeing what else you care to show us about these guys.

I would especially like to see more things like the water tanks and coral grenades that make these guys unique. About those, by the way--don't the water devices scrub the CO2 out of the water and just replace it with oxygen from the outside air when in airy environs? If you could build a magical space-traveling ship, you should be able to filter out a little CO2 at least while there's outside air around. And for the coral grenades, I would up the damage to something like 4d4 but state that each die is rolled separately against DR so if you have DR 1, it effectively does 4d4-4. And wouldn't a ten-foot radius be better than a five-foot radius? I mean, better for the purposes of representing a grenade, not better for the Sharkentines! :)

One last note--I don't have an idea of how but it would be cool to see some sort of a use of electric eels as a weapon. Maybe a cannon that's full of water and electric eels that throws lightning bolts or some kind of lasso/grapping weapon that throws an electric eel around an opponent and ties him up and shocks him at the same time!

Many thanks for the kind words. :smallsmile:

As for why I did not refluff a race? Two reasons. First, I have players who love to read their MMs. Secondly, I wanted the challenge. Apparently I messed up, but oh well.

As for the grenades? Well, I did not want to put them all the way at modern day tech level, just advanced enough to be of danger to the statuesque. Hence I did not give them explosives/gunpowder, and instead based their "grenades" on the same tech as their spear-guns: compressed air. I imagined this would mean the weapons are weaker, but are still good enough to deliver the poisonous shrapnel which is truly the main point of the weapon.

And thanks, you just helped me figure out what to do with the "heavy weapon" model I have had no clue what to do with. :smallbiggrin:

[Pika...]

OK, so I just finished updating everything. Had done the Sharkentines yesterday, and I just finished the Oct-Sapiens. Please let me know what you think. :smallsmile:

[Cieyrin]

Octosapien bite attack isn't fixed and I just noticed their HP isn't correct (they should have +3 from +1 Con mod and 3 HD, for a total HP of 9 + 3 + 3 = 15, going by average hitpoints). Otherwise, looking much better.

[Twin Dragons]

Cerulean Seas (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=86538) is chock full of good racial stuff and other material worth looking for converting for this kind of thing.