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Galacticz
2011-06-16, 05:11 PM
Hey guys,

So My DM is putting together a campaign where the PCs are building an evil empire. Our Evil Cleric is planning on creating an Undead army and our Ranger is planning on supplementing his forces with a band of mercenaries (from Leadership). And Our Rogue is planning on creating an Assassin's Guild type of deal. (How he plans to do this, I have no idea.) The point is, he wants our PC's to be overpowered themselves so that we can actually succeed in the face of incredible odds (The unification of the Goodly races/ armies.).

I wanted to make a Crit fighter. Either using scimitars or light maces (for Lightning maces). The thing is, I have no idea how to properly build him. I need a really high crit rate, (I've heard people can get their crits up to 9-20!). I plan on stacking lots of Crit effects on my weapons (Flaming or Freezing Bursts, etc, etc) for that extra damage, and going down the Cleave path of feats.

What feats do you guys think i should invest in? Which weapons should i use?

Another thing, My DM is encouraging us to be races with high ECLs, My buddy is going to be an Aspiring Vampire Lord, and My other buddy, Is playing an Erinyes.

Which super OP race/template should i use?

Thanks in advance guys!

Eldariel
2011-06-16, 05:16 PM
Crit Fighter really needs sources from 3.0 to be viable. Off the top of my head, Disciple of Dispater [Book of Vile Darkness] and Weapon Master [Sword & Fist] offer solid Threat Range increases. Then get Kaorti Resin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) Scimitars for x4 crits and you're pretty well off. As long as your opponents aren't crit immune, at any rate; crit immunity is woefully common.

Templates and races really don't help as much as class levels for a task such as this (since the only ways to increase threat range beyond simple Improved Critical are high level class features). Most races and templates are pretty bad, all things considered. You could favor him with something like Lesser Tiefling or some such with little impact on the actual build and go about your business with your class levels.

Jade Dragon
2011-06-16, 05:17 PM
For the template/race, take half-celestial, just so you have a reason to initiate PvP. :smalltongue:

For the crit thing, there are a few steps.

1. Be a warblade.

2. Use two kukris with the aptitude property, and either have improved critical or keen.

3. Take lightning mace.

4. Take the blood in the water stance.

5. ????

56. Profit!

King Atticus
2011-06-16, 05:28 PM
I would make sure to put collision on my weapons. It's additional damage that multiplies on a crit, well worth it.


Then get Kaorti Resin Scimitars for x4 crits and you're pretty well off.

This = Win

But I don't think you can use it with DoD because it's no longer a metal weapon. That being said I would still choose the x4 crit over the DoD's range, at a certain point you really don't need 3-20 or 5-20 crit range if your wrecking people on your first attack.

Also this route (if I remember correctly) requires EWP

herrhauptmann
2011-06-16, 05:59 PM
But I don't think you can use it with DoD because it's no longer a metal weapon. That being said I would still choose the x4 crit over the DoD's range, at a certain point you really don't need 3-20 or 5-20 crit range if your wrecking people on your first attack.


Yup, to the best of my knowledge also, DoD requires iron/steel weapons. Not creepy aberration snot.

Also, don't forget that crit stacking in 3.5 uses funny math.
If you have say a longsword (19-20), and double the crit range, it now crits on 17-20.
If you find a way to double the crit range again, it doesn't become 13-20, but instead 15-20.
Doubling a double is a triple. (2+2-1)
Tripling a double is a quadruple. (3+2-1)

Of course you could also slip the d2 crusader in there, or Jack B Quick. Though Jack will take a long time without houserules with how many feats he needs. I think it usually starts working around BAB 12.

TroubleBrewing
2011-06-16, 06:04 PM
I think it usually starts working around BAB 12.

I think with flaws you can activate it as early as BAB 11 (need that 2nd iterative), but I'm really just nitpicking here. Before that, Jack is still a solid build, just not as a viable as charging or tripping. Once he comes online, though, he's golden.

Greenish
2011-06-16, 07:18 PM
Yup, to the best of my knowledge also, DoD requires iron/steel weapons. Not creepy aberration snot.It's outsider snot, if my memory serves.

herrhauptmann
2011-06-16, 08:11 PM
And that makes it so much better? :smalltongue:

Urpriest
2011-06-16, 08:48 PM
It's outsider snot, if my memory serves.

Far Realm outsiders have noses full of aberration snot. Didn't you know?
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MotP/Far_Realm_Entity.jpg

Amphetryon
2011-06-16, 09:32 PM
In before Revenant Blade? :smallconfused:

Pyro_Azer
2011-06-16, 09:36 PM
Use Disciple of Dispater. DoD with keen scimitars means you crit on a 3-20/x2. DoD's crit increasing ability is explicitly stated to stack with keen and keen like effects.

Thurbane
2011-06-16, 09:39 PM
Use Disciple of Dispater. DoD with keen scimitars means you crit on a 3-20/x2. DoD's crit increasing ability is explicitly stated to stack with keen and keen like effects.
If it's a 3.5 game, check with your DM, as there is some debate as to whether the DoD crit increasing ability stacks with the 3.5 Improved Critical feat - FWIW, I personally believe it does (PS it very specifically does not stack with the Keen enhancement).

The Mythic Exemplar PrC gets an ability to increase a crit range by 1 that specifically stacks with just about anything - unfortunately, it has a very limited usage/day.

Pyro_Azer
2011-06-16, 09:52 PM
If it's a 3.5 game, check with your DM, as there is some debate as to whether the DoD crit increasing ability stacks with the 3.5 Improved Critical feat - FWIW, I personally believe it does (PS it very specifically does not stack with the Keen enhancement).

The Mythic Exemplar PrC gets an ability to increase a crit range by 1 that specifically stacks with just about anything - unfortunately, it has a very limited usage/day.

Ach ,misread it. It does however say it stacks with improved critical.


but it does stack with the Improved Critical feat.

Dakshaar
2011-06-16, 10:46 PM
I know you mentioned using either scimitars or light maces, but if your DM allowed the Disciple of Dispater, I would recommend using a Greathorn Minotaur hammer. (MM IV pg. 101) Its an exotic weapon but it has a d12 damage and a crit range of 19-20/x4. Combined with Improved Critical, you could have a threat range of 13-20. (assuming my numbers are correct) You could then use power attack to really unleash some massive damage on a crit.

Pyro_Azer
2011-06-16, 10:51 PM
I know you mentioned using either scimitars or light maces, but if your DM allowed the Disciple of Dispater, I would recommend using a Greathorn Minotaur hammer. (MM IV pg. 101) Its an exotic weapon but it has a d12 damage and a crit range of 19-20/x4. Combined with Improved Critical, you could have a threat range of 13-20. (assuming my numbers are correct) You could then use power attack to really unleash some massive damage on a crit.

Your numbers are correct until the critical ability increases to 3x threat range at lvl 8. Than the threat range for a minotaur hammer would be 9-20/x4.

Quietus
2011-06-16, 10:53 PM
I know you mentioned using either scimitars or light maces, but if your DM allowed the Disciple of Dispater, I would recommend using a Greathorn Minotaur hammer. (MM IV pg. 101) Its an exotic weapon but it has a d12 damage and a crit range of 19-20/x4. Combined with Improved Critical, you could have a threat range of 13-20. (assuming my numbers are correct) You could then use power attack to really unleash some massive damage on a crit.

If you're going to spend the feat for exotic proficiency, you're better off with the aforementioned kaorti scimitars, for the 1d6 18-20/x4 crits.

Thurbane
2011-06-16, 10:55 PM
If you're going to spend the feat for exotic proficiency, you're better off with the aforementioned kaorti scimitars, for the 1d6 18-20/x4 crits.
Only drawback is that, as mentioned above, Kaorti Resin will not work with DoD abilities, which require the weapon to be iron or steel.

herrhauptmann
2011-06-16, 10:55 PM
The feat Lightning maces, coupled with any pair of aptitude weapons still requires dual wielding.
The goliath greathammer could work, it's got the x4 crit, but I don't think it's a 19-20 crit. Plus there's the fact that either greathammer is still a 2-handed weapon. Dualwielding it would require quite a few feats, and give a lot of penalties to hit.

The downside of the crit fighter, just because you crit on a roll of 10-20, doesn't mean squat if you miss on a roll of 15 or less. Only a nat20 is a guaranteed hit. So you really need to keep your attack bonus high.
Dual wielding longswords is what, a -4 to hit on each hand? If you're using monkey-grip for dual wielding greatswords or something, that's what, -6 each hand?

Thurbane
2011-06-17, 12:12 AM
The Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer is 19-20/x4, while the Goliath Greathammer is 20/x4...there is some debate as to whether they are supposed to be the same weapon or not.

Dual wielding two handed weapons can be achieved using Strongarm Bracers, though you will take the normal two handed penalties, in addition to a -2 size penalty (assuming a medium creature wielding two medium two-handed weapons). Oversized Two Weapon Fighting will reduce the TWF penalties to -2/-2, for a total of -4/-4.

herrhauptmann
2011-06-17, 12:27 AM
Dual wielding two handed weapons can be achieved using Strongarm Bracers, though you will take the normal two handed penalties, in addition to a -2 size penalty (assuming a medium creature wielding two medium two-handed weapons). Oversized Two Weapon Fighting will reduce the TWF penalties to -2/-2, for a total of -4/-4.


Strongarm bracers: You can wield weapons as if you were one size category larger than normal.
For example, a human wearing these bracers could wield large or medium weapons without penalty.
I don't see a reference to One handed or Two handed there.

Congratulations, you can now wield Large sized longswords in each hand just like a normal person can wield normal longswords in each hand, or a single Large longsword in both hands.

Thurbane
2011-06-17, 12:36 AM
Yeah, I didn't see it the first time someone posted it either. The key is the part that says "You can wield weapons as if you were one size category larger than normal.". A large creature can wield a two handed weapon sized for a medium creature in one hand, at a -2 size penalty.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

Randomguy
2011-06-17, 07:01 AM
"Kaorti weapons: Fiend Folio web enhancement: *ANY* weapon can be made out of kaorti, which gives it a crit multiplier of x4. You need an EWP for a kaorti version of a weapon (even if it is already exotic), but... hey, no problem for Haberdash! Combine with a Keen Elven Courtblade or something similar for a ridiculous crit. Of course, this is a ridiculously exotic weapon, as you need to convince an Evil Outsider to make it for you (or accept the +4 LA to be a Kaorti yourself). My suggestion is that you invest in Knowledge (Planes), and ask your DM for a side quest to get one."


This is a quote from the interesting exotic weapon page that you might find useful. The elven courtblade has 18-20 crit and does 1d10 damage, it was mentioned in the same thread.