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Curious
2011-06-17, 09:36 PM
So after several weeks of reading threads about the melee/caster imbalance, I've been bouncing ideas around in my head. One of the big splits in power between casters and non-casters seems to be in their ability to use expendable resources to gain temporary (or not so temporary) boosts in power. Melee doesn't often get anything like this, and combined with their singular lack of versatility or flexibility, they simply can't compete.

And so, I have attempted to create what will be hopefully be the first in a series of classes using the pool mechanic. And with no further ado, I present-


Battle Scions

Battle Scions are lords of the battlefield, wading through the corpses of their enemies with weapon in hand. They hail from all the walks of life, from grizzled old soldiers and mercenary dogs, to noble warriors and idealistic young knights. What sets them apart is the fundamental understanding that no matter who you are, on the battlefield the only thing that matters is the skill with which you wield your blade.

Abilities: While their combat skills are impressive on their own, a Battle Scions true strength comes from his ability to pull off miraculous stunts through the use of his Valor pool, which is expanded by his constitution modifier. His second primary stat is either Strength, or Dexterity, depending on which fighting style he chooses.

Role: Battle Scions have one true purpose in combat; to destroy their enemies. Whether it be with a hail of arrows or the stroke of a blade, Battle Scions are adept at all forms of death-dealing.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: D12


Class Features

Class Skills:

The Battle Scions class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (Engineering) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 6+ Int modifier.

Table: Battle Scion
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+2| Battle Art, Fighting Style, Valor Pool, Weapon Style

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3| Battle Art, Heart of Steel

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+3| Fighting Style Progression, Uncanny Dodge

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+4| Battle Art, Mettle

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+4| Bonus Feat

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+5| Battle Art, Evasion

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5| Fighting Style Progression, Second Fighting Style

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+6| Battle Art

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+6| Bonus Feat

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+7| Battle Art

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+7| Fighting Style Progression, Improved Uncanny Dodge

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+8| Battle Art, Improved Mettle

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+8| Bonus Feat

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+9| Battle Art

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+9| Fighting Style Progression, Third Fighting Style

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+10| Battle Art

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10| Bonus Feat

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+11| Battle Art

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+11| Fighting Style Progression

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+12| Battle Art, Scion of War[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Battle Scions are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (including tower shields).

Battle Arts: As a Battle Scion immerses himself more fully in the clangor of battle, he begins to develop techniques and abilities to augment his battle prowess. At 1st level, a Battle Scion gains a battle art of his choice. He gains an additional battle art at 2nd level, and for every 2 levels attained after 2nd level, as noted on Table: Battle Scion. A Battle Scion cannot choose an individual battle art more than once. The save to resist a battle art is equal to 10 + 1/2 the Battle Scions level + the Battle Scions Constitution/Charisma modifier.


Sweeping Blade (Ex): Attack all enemies in an arc

Leap (Ex): (6th level) Basically flight.

Pheonix Strike (Ex): With a single, powerful blow you send your enemy flying. You make one full attack at your full base attack bonus, which deals an extra 2d6 + your level damage, plus another 2d6 for every ititerative attack you possess. If the attack is successful, your enemy is also moved back 5ft in a straight line for every level you have, and must succeed on a reflex saving throw to avoid being knocked prone. If the enemy hits a wall or other solid object while sliding, they take a further 4d6 damage.

Improved Evasion (Ex): You have honed your reflexes to the point where you simply cannot be caught unawares by an attack. You now not only take no damage on a successful reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth you only take half damage on a failed save. You must be at least level 12 to take this battle art.

Deadly Focus (Ex): Increase the critical threat range of any weapon you wield by 2. This stacks with, but is not multiplied by, the Improved Critical feat and the Keen enchantment.

Blow-for-Blow (Ex): Whenever you provoke an attack of opportunity from an enemy, you may make a single attack of opportunity against them. You must be at least 8th level to choose this battle art.

Juxtaposition (Ex): You move with such speed that the eyes of your enemies cannot trace you. Twice an encounter as an immediate action, you may move your character anywhere within 200 feet of his current position. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You also gain a +10 bonus to your base movement speed.



Fighting Styles: Every warrior has their own preferred methods of slaying foes, and the Battle Scion is no exception. At 1st level, a Battle Scion may choose 1 fighting style. At level 7 and 15, he may gain a second and third fighting style, respectively.


Skirmisher: A style for those who like to hurt their enemies without being hurt themselves.

Defender: A style based around taking the hits, and trucking on anyways.

Mauler: A style meant for nothing more than absolute carnage.

Rider: A style for either heavy hitting charges or skirmish style dashes, all on your mount.

Commander: A true leader of men, this style is for those who wish to inspire those who fight beside them to ever-greater feats of glory.



Weapon Styles: While all weapons are deadly in the hands of a Battle Scion, most prefer to work with what they are familiar with, the weapons they have held for years. A Battle Scion gains the listed benefits of a weapon style when wielding a weapon described within its text.


Ranged: For hitting enemies from where they can't hit back. Suckers.

Two-Handed: For heavy damage dealing.

Two-Weapon: For lots of attacks.

One-Handed: For finesse and style.

Unarmed: For all you monk enthusiasts out there.

Sword and Shield: Balancing between defense and attack.

Reach: When you just don't want to let enemies get close enough to touch 'ya.


Still under development.

Morph Bark
2011-06-18, 04:14 AM
Why do you use PF's Acrobatics, but not Athletics? :smallconfused:

Making the base chassis near-perfect (dragonlike) is a bad way to go.

Iron Will is a bad name for a class feature as it is the name of a feat.

Moving 5 feet is already a free action unless you plan on making it capable of doing so multiple times in a turn.

The topic title is erroneous as this is not a "general" redesign at all.

Curious
2011-06-18, 01:37 PM
Yay! Someone actually posted!

1: I'm checking over the Pathfinder SRD right now, but I'm not seeing any Athletics. Is this some other skill I'm not familiar with?

2: What would be the problem with a perfect chassis? I'm kind of designing this with the idea that these are the guys that can take near anything thrown at them, but can specialize in certain areas to become nigh-invulnerable there.

3: Ah, right, thanks. Fixed.

4: Yes, I meant that you could use it multiple times to allow for movement plus full attacking. Changed the text.

5: Well, not yet. If this thing pans out well enough, I'm planning to adopt some of the ideas used in this fighter fix (a pool of points specifically) to fix the other melee classes. I'll change the title anyways though, to avoid confusion.

Halna LeGavilk
2011-06-18, 01:47 PM
The problem I see here is that you are trying to mix Cha into there, for some reason. If you are going for a cha-based fighter, give him bonuses to attack and AC using his Cha. That's what I'd do.

Curious
2011-06-18, 01:52 PM
The problem I see here is that you are trying to mix Cha into there, for some reason. If you are going for a cha-based fighter, give him bonuses to attack and AC using his Cha. That's what I'd do.

Might do. Basically I only used Cha because it is a horribly underused stat, which I dislike. It also flows into the whole chivalrous knight, war-leader, etc. archetypes. Introducing an ability to allow for bonuses to attack/damage/AC would probably make perfect sense though, so I'll probably use that.

But, would it just make more sense to key the pool off Con?

Jade Dragon
2011-06-19, 05:30 PM
Why do you use PF's Acrobatics, but not Athletics? :smallconfused:Athletics is 4e, not PF.
Making the base chassis near-perfect (dragonlike) is a bad way to go.

Why? These guys are expected to look a medusa in the eye without flinching, block a dragon's breath weapon with their shield or literally cleave it in half with their sword, and smirk when a wizard tries to dominate them. They're also expected to take and dish out tons of damage.

Curious
2011-06-19, 05:40 PM
Athletics is 4e, not PF.

Why? These guys are expected to look a medusa in the eye without flinching, block a dragon's breath weapon with their shield or literally cleave it in half with their sword, and smirk when a wizard tries to dominate them. They're also expected to take and dish out tons of damage.

That's my point of view. If these guys are going to be on the front lines, they should be able to take whatever comes their way. Plus, I'm tired of having my fighter miss all his saving throws only to be dominated/immobilized/fireballed/whatever.

I'm also editing the OP as I go, adding new abilities and clarifying where it is needed, so if you have any suggestions for useful abilities, I'm all ears!

Jade Dragon
2011-06-19, 06:01 PM
Anyway, you might borrow some stuff from this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202779).

Curious
2011-06-19, 08:12 PM
Ah, thank you, I believe I will. Also, does anyone have any suggestions for fighting styles besides riding, tanking, DPR, and skirmishing? I'm kind of stumped for what else to put in there.

Jade Dragon
2011-06-19, 09:13 PM
Reach weapons, sword and shield, shield bashing.

Edit: oh, you meant for fighting styles. Commander.

Curious
2011-06-19, 10:11 PM
Reach weapons, sword and shield, shield bashing.

Edit: oh, you meant for fighting styles. Commander.

Those are all excellent, thank you. Although I may fold shield bashing into SaB, if there's room.

Jade Dragon
2011-06-23, 12:56 PM
I don't really like the battle arts. There are dozens of fighter feats out there, and I don't think we'll be able to come up with that many. Anyway, there should be a battle art for the barbarian's rage, and one for whirling frenzy, and one for pounce.

Curious
2011-06-26, 05:29 PM
Mm, I think you're right. I'm gonna give this more thought, I posted it when it was incomplete. If someone could lock this please? I'll post the revised version in a new thread.

Jade Dragon
2011-06-26, 05:59 PM
What if you replaced the bonus feats with battle arts and the battle arts with bonus feats? Then you'd get a style at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level.

If you want it locked, report the first post with a request to lock the thread.

Curious
2011-06-26, 06:04 PM
What if you replaced the bonus feats with battle arts and the battle arts with bonus feats? Then you'd get a style at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level.

If you want it locked, report the first post with a request to lock the thread.

What I really want from this class is to be able to represent as many different fighting styles as possible, with as much mechanical balance between them as possible. However, I'm not quite certain that I know how to do that right now, so I'm going back to the drawing board for now until I can make it interesting.

Ah, thank you.

Jade Dragon
2011-06-26, 07:32 PM
One thing. When you start this again, make the battle arts progressing abilities. Like juxtaposition would grant you +10/level fast movement, so by 20th level you'd have +200 to your speed and +80 to jump checks.