Build Challenge: We can build it, we have the sourcebooks!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Mmmm since I'm always a lazy person, why not?

I want to have a Knight-esque type of character, someone who stands for valor and justice, and has the power to back it up. He's primarily concerned for his friends, so he has to have some ability to take care of his allies. Since I am imagining him as a Knight of some kind, I would like him to be decked out in Full Armor, and primarily martial ability (spellcasting is fine, as long as its primarily buffs of some kind I suppose). Also, I would appreciate it if you could incorporate some mechanic that has an "honor code" of some kind. So that he can always say "I fight for justice and that empowers me - what do you fight for?" or something like that :smallbiggrin:

Now that is simple enough, really and my request isn't complicated.

Here's the kicker: I want him to be focused on Sword And Board fighting and I want him to be really good at it. I'm kind of hoping that the Shield will be used for more things than just Shield Bashing and actually end up a core part of his defenses. I don't really know the extent of how shields can be utilized though, so please surprise me. It can even be one of those exotic shields that I don't really know about.

And finally I want him to be able to take out a lot of punishment. I mean the whole nine yards - HP damage, spells that target saves, etc. So Mettle and Evasion would be awesome!

Also I would appreciate it if the build could start from rocking from low levels as well as high levels.

Oohhh... I like this one. It's a common archetype, and a lot of people just dismiss it out of hand. Let's see what we can do with it, shall we?

There's several ways to go about doing this, actually, depending on which mechanic you wish to use.

If you want to use ToB, then Crusader is tailor made for this. He even gets things like Thicket of Blades which helps prevent opponents from just ignoring him and tumbling past. And he gets a couple of maneuvers that are explicitly used with shields.

Incarnum is also viable here. The Ironsoul Forgemaster is ideal for this archetype. It also unlocks a lot of chakra binds on a pretty regular basis.

Now then, we're really wanting both Mettle and Evasion. However, we're also wanting to be clanking around in Full Plate, which normally obviates Evasion. However, there's a couple of ways to do it:

1) Divine Oracle gives you Prescient Sense which basically is Evasion in heavy armor. However, it requires you cast at least 2 divination spells.

2) Ring of Evasion. There are some solutions you can throw money at.

3) Impulse Boots. Bound to Feet chakra, net you evasion that doesn't care about armor.

Now, Divine Oracle might not be so bad to get into after all. There's a PrC called Suel Archanamach in Complete Arcane. Divination is one of the schools they get access to. They're actually not too bad, to be honest. Get a lot of good buffing out of them.

For mettle, we run into a slight problem as well.

If you are going Crusader, Mettle is at level 13, that means you're probably *NOT* going to do much PrCing or dipping, and it comes fairly late in the build.

If you're going Incarnum, you just flat out don't get it without a dip somewhere.

Fortunately, there's a solution for that as well.

A two-level dip in Witch Hunter (from Tome of Magic) will get you Mettle easy-peasy.

So, let's try putting this together into a build, shall we?

The Tank Incarnate
NG Dwarf Incarnate4/Paladin4 (NG variant)/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10/Witch Hunter 2

This build uses a Ring of Evasion for your evasion needs. You can split things up to get Mettle earlier, probably starting off fairly early, actually.

If you start off with Pal4 to begin with, you can easily get Witch Hunter before character level 10, going Pal4/Incarnate2/Witch Doctor2

From there, you've got all the prerequsites to go straight into Ironsoul Forgemaster.

The last two levels can be more Incarnate if you want more essentia, or can be Crusader. Personally, I'd go for the Essentia, since you can pick up the stance with a couple of feats.

Your shield is really powerful for the following reasons:

1) You can invest essentia into it for energy resistance

2) You can blow turn attempts (it's why you go Pal4, rather than a 2 level dip for resists) for Divine Shield to give your CHA bonus to your shield.

3) You can use the Counter 'Shield Block' to defend an ally (prerequsite for martial stance feat anyways)

You can also:

* Thicket of Blades stance, makes area you threaten to be difficult terrain, making it harder to make those Tumble checks

* Defensive Rebuke: opponent must attack you or provoke AoO.

* Good Incarnum add untyped bonus to AC. This can be further boosted, see below

* 7 melds shaped, 13 essentia, and 3 binds available.

Some options for shapes you may want:

Crystal Helm: binding it to Crown chakra gives your attacks the Force descriptor, which lets you attack incorporeal and ethereal beings normally.

Impulse Boots: Uncanny Dodge lets you negate a lot of tricks that Rogues like to pull, and makes it harder to sneak attack you. Come to think of it, binding them to your Feet chakra nets you Evasion, even in heavy armor

Incarnate Avatar: Insight bonus to AC, but you won't have the Soul chakra point to bind it to, so it'll just have to leave it at that

Lucky Dice: Luck bonus to various things, depending on which you want to use that turn. Binding them to Hand slot lets you share this bonus with allies.

Bluesteel Bracers; Bonus on initiative checks. Binding them to Arms lets you share that with allies

Planar Chausable: Energy resistance, but the important thing is binding it to Brow increases the bonus from your Incarnum Radiance ability

Lifebonded Vestments lets you heal others. Binding to Heart chakra (which you do eventually get) lets you do it unlimited. It can also fuel Cadeuceus Bracers to remove status effects.

Pauldrons of Health make you immune to Sickened and Nauseated. Binding it to Shoulders also nets you immunity to Energy Drain.

Gear:

Adamantine Full Plate. I know, most people go for Methril, but you don't. Here's why: You can invest essentia into it, through the Armor Bond class ability, which increases the DR/- of your armor. So, Adamantine Full Plate starts off at 3/-, putting another 5 into it gives you 8/-, which is actually pretty darn respectable, considering it's subtracting off of everything heading your way.

Adamantine Shield of Bashing. Really, why not bash with it as well, if you can shake the feats free. You can invest essentia in it to boost your elemental resistances, you can blow turn attempts to get your Charisma bonus stacked on top of it, and you can use it to block attacks aimed at your allies.

Sound good?

[Veyr]

we're really wanting both Mettle and Evasion.
I'm sort of dubious about this being such a strict necessity...


2) Ring of Evasion. There are some solutions you can throw money at.
Doesn't that have the armor restriction?


2) You can blow turn attempts (it's why you go Pal4, rather than a 2 level dip for resists) for Divine Shield to give your CHA bonus to your shield.
Wouldn't Pal 3/Clr 1 be more efficient?


3) You can use the Counter 'Shield Block' to defend an ally (prerequsite for martial stance feat anyways)
That maneuver is... decidedly lacking.


* Thicket of Blades stance, makes area you threaten to be difficult terrain, making it harder to make those Tumble checks
It does no such thing; that's the Knight's Bulwark of Defense. Thicket of Blades allows you to prevent Withdraw/Tumble/Five-Foot-Step from eliminating your AoOs. You still want it for this, I think, because you're going to need some way of preventing enemies from ignoring you.


* Defensive Rebuke: opponent must attack you or provoke AoO.
This is good, but it has a lot of limitations on it (most importantly, you can only cover for allies adjacent to you and only against melee attacks).


Ultimately, I don't think your build does enough to deal with the "aggro" problem, though 3.5 offers decidedly few ways to do better (I had suggested many of the same things). I was really hoping to learn of some decent ways of defending your allies, but it really seems 3.5 doesn't have those sorts of features.

[Zaq]

While the rest of the build looks decent, I will mention that the Impulse Boots do NOT let you use Evasion in armor. They reference the Monk ability and include no provision otherwise. This makes me sad, but it's RAW.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

While the rest of the build looks decent, I will mention that the Impulse Boots do NOT let you use Evasion in armor. They reference the Monk ability and include no provision otherwise. This makes me sad, but it's RAW.

Nope! It just says 'you gain the Evasion ability'. Monks are not referenced.

Veyr:

As far as the ring, it says:
Evasion

This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Forge Ring, jump; Price 25,000 gp. no provision of armor at all.

Pal4 has more BAB than Pal3/Clr1. Considering Incarnate is a 1/2 BAB class, and Ironsoul Forgemaster is only a 3/4, we need all the BAB we can get. It also has more hit points, which you WILL need as a 'tank', considering the relatively low HD of the other classes involved. So no, it is not more 'efficient'

As far as 'aggro problems', you had suggested Island of Blades, which would require a pair of feats for a Crusader to get to (being that it is Shadow Hand), and only helps him flank, which isn't much good. In fact, IIRC, it was Zaq who suggest Ironsoul Forgemaster in the first place. So no, you didn't contribute all that much. What I did was wrap up some things, clarified others, expounded and pontificated, and explained exactly why it happened.

This is a RPG, not an MMO. There is no 'taunt button'. There doesn't need to be. With Thicket of Blades, you can simply make it impossible for anyone to get past you to get to others, forcing them to remove you to be able to close with them. Besides, ALSO unlike MMO's, the casters are tougher to take down than you are. Don't worry about them, worry about the other melee guys.

The counter Shield Block is necessary to get the Thicket of blades, by going Martial Study, then Martial Stance. Since you are using your shield anyways, you may as well use it for... oh, I dunno, what he asked for.

Really, next time you attempt to 'correct' someone, at least do so with courtesy instead of sarcastic superiority.

[Draz74]

That maneuver is... decidedly lacking.

Wait, really? I always thought it was awesome. Let's say you have a +2 large shield ... then this maneuver lets you add +8 to your ally's AC against one attack as an immediate action. That's a pretty big bonus, very likely to make that dragon's bite miss.

[Zaq]

It also says "see page 50 of the PHB." You go to page 50, and it says that you can't use armor.

[Hazzardevil]

I reccomend that you use the following build for a tank.
Knight 3/Hexblade 3/Suel 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 6
by level 14 you can have an all day AC of 28 and as you continue you get more AC and when Haste is working you can have a miss chance, and frankly as long as you get into melee range your opponents are not going anywhere unless they want to be chased down and stabbed in the back.

Am I the only one thinking that we should put these builds into the first post so we don't get the same request several times?

[elliott20]

Here's my request... I want the Death Dealer of Frank Frazetta fame with some modifications

Death Dealer Image

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Molly_Hatchet_-_Molly_Hatchet.jpg


From wikipedia


Death Dealer is an iconic 1973 fantasy painting by Frank Frazetta. It depicts a menacing armor-clad warrior with a horned helmet, whose facial features are obscured by shadow, atop a horse, holding a bloody axe and shield.

Here are my own modifications:

I want him to be WORTHY of the name God of Death, while still being 20th level. Here are some specific features I want to see.

- he randomly appears on large battlefields to observe the fight, and reap souls from worthy warriors for his own purpose. So, he needs to be able to detect battles going on somehow, and efficiently get there.

- As state above, he reaps souls. While just killing them is fine, I would like him to benefit from killing his opponent. (other than just XP, that is)

- he needs to have ridiculous resistances and take an incredible amount of punishment.

- While some of his abilities are supernatural, I want him to primarily use melee.

[Hazzardevil]

I think this is one of the easier requests:
Knight 2/Fighter 2/Warshaper 2/War Mind 10/Warshaper 2/Crusader 2
Changeling with Wild Cohort,
You have plenty of feats to spend and you only need 3 especially.
Wild Cohort for a mount that doesn't die in one hit, Wild Talent to quialify for War Mind and Expanded knowledge to put teleport on the War Mind powers known.
You need Changeling to get into Warshaper and have fast healing, have a nice killing!
Crusader and knight have no real purpose but I wanted to fit in a Subpar class and something to do other than,
I attack, I attack, guess what? I attack again.

[cd4]

I have a couple:

The first is Gordon Freeman from the Half-life games.

The second is a human half-fiend who uses illusions and enchantments to make the intruders see what he wants to see and eventually gets them to fight each other without realising they are being manipulated. Preferably with a CR around 10.

For both of these I would note the fact that I only have the SRD, Completes, Compendiums and Tome of Battle to work with.

EDIT: Added human to the half fiend

[JKTrickster]

Oohhh... I like this one. It's a common archetype, and a lot of people just dismiss it out of hand. Let's see what we can do with it, shall we?

There's several ways to go about doing this, actually, depending on which mechanic you wish to use.

If you want to use ToB, then Crusader is tailor made for this. He even gets things like Thicket of Blades which helps prevent opponents from just ignoring him and tumbling past. And he gets a couple of maneuvers that are explicitly used with shields.

Incarnum is also viable here. The Ironsoul Forgemaster is ideal for this archetype. It also unlocks a lot of chakra binds on a pretty regular basis.

Now then, we're really wanting both Mettle and Evasion. However, we're also wanting to be clanking around in Full Plate, which normally obviates Evasion. However, there's a couple of ways to do it:

1) Divine Oracle gives you Prescient Sense which basically is Evasion in heavy armor. However, it requires you cast at least 2 divination spells.

2) Ring of Evasion. There are some solutions you can throw money at.

3) Impulse Boots. Bound to Feet chakra, net you evasion that doesn't care about armor.

Now, Divine Oracle might not be so bad to get into after all. There's a PrC called Suel Archanamach in Complete Arcane. Divination is one of the schools they get access to. They're actually not too bad, to be honest. Get a lot of good buffing out of them.

For mettle, we run into a slight problem as well.

If you are going Crusader, Mettle is at level 13, that means you're probably *NOT* going to do much PrCing or dipping, and it comes fairly late in the build.

If you're going Incarnum, you just flat out don't get it without a dip somewhere.

Fortunately, there's a solution for that as well.

A two-level dip in Witch Hunter (from Tome of Magic) will get you Mettle easy-peasy.

So, let's try putting this together into a build, shall we?

The Tank Incarnate
NG Dwarf Incarnate4/Paladin4 (NG variant)/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10/Witch Hunter 2

This build uses a Ring of Evasion for your evasion needs. You can split things up to get Mettle earlier, probably starting off fairly early, actually.

If you start off with Pal4 to begin with, you can easily get Witch Hunter before character level 10, going Pal4/Incarnate2/Witch Doctor2

From there, you've got all the prerequsites to go straight into Ironsoul Forgemaster.

The last two levels can be more Incarnate if you want more essentia, or can be Crusader. Personally, I'd go for the Essentia, since you can pick up the stance with a couple of feats.

Your shield is really powerful for the following reasons:

1) You can invest essentia into it for energy resistance

2) You can blow turn attempts (it's why you go Pal4, rather than a 2 level dip for resists) for Divine Shield to give your CHA bonus to your shield.

3) You can use the Counter 'Shield Block' to defend an ally (prerequsite for martial stance feat anyways)

You can also:

* Thicket of Blades stance, makes area you threaten to be difficult terrain, making it harder to make those Tumble checks

* Defensive Rebuke: opponent must attack you or provoke AoO.

* Good Incarnum add untyped bonus to AC. This can be further boosted, see below

* 7 melds shaped, 13 essentia, and 3 binds available.

Some options for shapes you may want:

Crystal Helm: binding it to Crown chakra gives your attacks the Force descriptor, which lets you attack incorporeal and ethereal beings normally.

Impulse Boots: Uncanny Dodge lets you negate a lot of tricks that Rogues like to pull, and makes it harder to sneak attack you. Come to think of it, binding them to your Feet chakra nets you Evasion, even in heavy armor

Incarnate Avatar: Insight bonus to AC, but you won't have the Soul chakra point to bind it to, so it'll just have to leave it at that

Lucky Dice: Luck bonus to various things, depending on which you want to use that turn. Binding them to Hand slot lets you share this bonus with allies.

Bluesteel Bracers; Bonus on initiative checks. Binding them to Arms lets you share that with allies

Planar Chausable: Energy resistance, but the important thing is binding it to Brow increases the bonus from your Incarnum Radiance ability

Lifebonded Vestments lets you heal others. Binding to Heart chakra (which you do eventually get) lets you do it unlimited. It can also fuel Cadeuceus Bracers to remove status effects.

Pauldrons of Health make you immune to Sickened and Nauseated. Binding it to Shoulders also nets you immunity to Energy Drain.

Gear:

Adamantine Full Plate. I know, most people go for Methril, but you don't. Here's why: You can invest essentia into it, through the Armor Bond class ability, which increases the DR/- of your armor. So, Adamantine Full Plate starts off at 3/-, putting another 5 into it gives you 8/-, which is actually pretty darn respectable, considering it's subtracting off of everything heading your way.

Adamantine Shield of Bashing. Really, why not bash with it as well, if you can shake the feats free. You can invest essentia in it to boost your elemental resistances, you can blow turn attempts to get your Charisma bonus stacked on top of it, and you can use it to block attacks aimed at your allies.

Sound good?


That sounds....awesome :smallamused:

It's okay if I don't get evasion, it was more of an afterthought anyway. I find the other parts of the build MUCH more pivotal anyway and you nailed those parts!

Also what Shield Bashing feats do you recommend? This build seems tight on feats so I suppose that I will have to carefully choose.

Also is there a NG variant of Paladin? :smallconfused:

[Draz74]

Also what Shield Bashing feats do you recommend? This build seems tight on feats so I suppose that I will have to carefully choose.

Improved Shield Bash
Shield Specialization (PHB2)
Agile Shield Fighter (PHB2)
Shield Ward (PHB2)
Shield Charge (CWar)
Shield Slam (CWar)

Along with Crusader maneuvers, this set of feats is pretty much how you make a shield awesome in D&D. Well, that, and finding cool enhancements to stick on your shield (I recommend looking through MIC).

[Zonugal]

I have a couple:

The first is Gordon Freeman from the Half-life games.

Wasn't he depicted as an Artificer or Wizard always in the wrong place?

Maybe go with an Artificer focused on wands & combating Aberrations?

[Drakoun]

Moin,
Before I annoy you with the character which I would like to build, I gotta say I couldn't try as much as I wanted to, 'cause I got only acces to the german PF rules ._. (though I dont mind other sources, if linked to someplace I can read them)
Nonetheless I hope you can build me this character:
A gentlemanlike, honorable, meele-type hero preferably using a rapier and medium amor at most, unsing his intellekt and swiftness rather than brute force.
As far as this goes, I could use a simple duelist; maybe the factotum I read about in this thread, but there is more to it.
I would like him to have an enormous amount of willpower, the kind which lets you fight on if you should be dead already, which lets you break free from an enchantment, or which gives you the needed perception to break through the enemies defense and doing the killing blow.
(somewhat animelike ^^)
Oh, and although his will is his ace, he doesn't use it if he don't has to (or maybe he even can't :3?) meaning he must be quite good without . . .
I thought about the barbarianrage, but it is a contradicting with his weapon of choice and even refluffed, raging is the last what this character would do . . .
I hope you can help me dear playgrounders ;D

[Zonugal]

Moin,
Before I annoy you with the character which I would like to build, I gotta say I couldn't try as much as I wanted to, 'cause I got only acces to the german PF rules ._. (though I dont mind other sources, if linked to someplace I can read them)
Nonetheless I hope you can build me this character:
A gentlemanlike, honorable, meele-type hero preferably using a rapier and medium amor at most, unsing his intellekt and swiftness rather than brute force.
As far as this goes, I could use a simple duelist; maybe the factotum I read about in this thread, but there is more to it.
I would like him to have an enormous amount of willpower, the kind which lets you fight on if you should be dead already, which lets you break free from an enchantment, or which gives you the needed perception to break through the enemies defense and doing the killing blow.
(somewhat animelike ^^)
Oh, and although his will is his ace, he doesn't use it if he don't has to (or maybe he even can't :3?) meaning he must be quite good without . . .
I thought about the barbarianrage, but it is a contradicting with his weapon of choice and even refluffed, raging is the last what this character would do . . .
I hope you can help me dear playgrounders ;D

Warblade does this pretty well, especially with Iron Heart Surge.

[Drakoun]

Actually this sounds nice, but i can't see the willpower aspect. . .
sure iron heartsurge lets me negate one efect, but ONE every two rounds if I'm not mistaken.
Not quite what I thought of ;P

[Hiro Protagonest]

Actually this sounds nice, but i can't see the willpower aspect. . .
sure iron heartsurge lets me negate one efect, but ONE every two rounds if I'm not mistaken.
Not quite what I thought of ;P

Um, that's why it fits with the "doesn't use it all the time" part.

[Drakoun]

Um, that's why it fits with the "doesn't use it all the time" part.

yeah I kinda misphrased that . . . sorry ^^
The willpower is rather a state he is in (like rage) than an ability he can use.

[Zonugal]

yeah I kinda misphrased that . . . sorry ^^
The willpower is rather a state he is in (like rage) than an ability he can use.

Have you looked at the Combat Form feats from Player's Handbook 2?

[Zonugal]

Server Issue; Double Post

[Vasja]

Hey.

How would you create a Necron Lord (from Warhammer 40k universe)?
An almost undestructible (undead) robot with great melee power (natural claw attacks?), invisibility, stuns, short range teleports, the ability to heal/resurrect fallen allies and so on.
I am looking for a build that does not require a great deal of buffing time per combat - the less the better.

Reposting this. Although Amphetryon's build covers most of the bases, there still remains the question of stunning and (area) resurrections.
Shneeky, could I get your opinion please?

[Vasja]

double post. server trouble?

[mootoall]

Well, Slippery Mind is a rogue class feature, Mettle's a two level dip and Evasion's also a Rogue thing. That covers all of your defensive abilities. Shape Soulmeld (Rageclaws) to be able to continue fighting past death, and SA is one of the only ways to get decent damage out of a rapier.

[The Rabbler]

Hey.

How would you create a Necron Lord (from Warhammer 40k universe)?
An almost undestructible (undead) robot with great melee power (natural claw attacks?), invisibility, stuns, short range teleports, the ability to heal/resurrect fallen allies and so on.
I am looking for a build that does not require a great deal of buffing time per combat - the less the better.
Reposting this. Although Amphetryon's build covers most of the bases, there still remains the question of stunning and (area) resurrections.
Shneeky, could I get your opinion please?

This could be done with a warforged swordsage/crusader/cleric/RKV build, assuming Revivify is a cleric spell (I haven't read it in a while). Warforged provides the base, swordsageRKV gets you the teleportation, cleric gets you invisibility and Revivify along with DMM. Crusader is just there because I'm not sure if swordsage alone can qualify for RKV.

Stack up on nightsticks or (if your DM doesn't allow it) grab the prcs that grant alternate turning tracks; the ACF that gives a turning that isn't rebuking or turning (maybe from ravenloft?), and the two prcs that each give turning and rebuking plus a couple extra turning feats will get you plenty of attempts each day. spend these attempts on DMM quickening a revivify if a teammate dies. It's not AOE, but with a move action teleport, a normal revivify, and a quickened revivify, you can bring two allies back in a single round if they're nearby.

Throw on a LA+1 template that makes you large (half-minotaur, perhaps?) to add to the image. If you really want claws, you can pick up the feral template or the warforged-only feat that grants you some claws and focus your fighting on tiger claw maneuvers.

I'm sorry I couldn't be very specific on a lot of the points (especially the build itself) but I'm about 6,000 miles AFB. I can look through some online handbooks to see if the build is possible in a 20 level spread, but I can't promise any certainty.

EDIT: the cleric ACF is called Destroy Undead from the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Dread Necromancer provides its own revoke undead track at level 1. I think Soldier of Light (DD) will provide its own turn undead track, but I haven't been able to confirm it.

Turns out because RKV gives shadow hand, you don't need swordsage at all.
I haven't worked out feats/prereqs yet, but I think the build should be able to work if it looks like this:
cleric 3/dread necromancer 1/crusader 1/soldier of light 1/RKV 7/full divine casting 7

Assuming 16 Cha, you're looking at 18 turning attempts + 9 more for every Extra Turn feat you take.

Maybe grab Superior Unarmed Strike and fluff it as claws to get the I-claw-you-to-ribbons feel to the character. Beyond that, you'll be a MechaCoDzilla with lots of turning attempts and an easy way to snap the action economy in half by level 13. If all the feats/skills work out.

I count 4 CLs lost, so you won't be hitting 9s, but that's the best I can do.

[Dralnu]

Yea. Best way to make disposable minions like that is Warlock6 and taking The Dead Walk. Since that also nets you the ability to Take 10 on UMD, you can use a Wand of Lesser Creation. So you can start making explosive sheep around that level.

To throw them at opponents gets a little trickier, but fortunately there is a solution for that as well. The feat is called Fling Ally, and it's in Races of Stone. That should get you the rest of the way to flinging your explosive sheep around.

Remember, friends, while conducting our zany alchemical experiments, we must also strive to be more Green! Reduce! Reuse! Reanimate!

For your advancements in flying exploding sheep technology, I award you, Shneekey, with a You Win The Internet Award.

I'm gonna have fun with this BBEG :smallamused:

[Longcat]

Hi Shneekey,
could you help me build Geralt of Rivia (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Geralt)? Basically, these are the traits that define him (from a mechanical point-of-view), if you don't know him already:

Excellent Swordsmanship: can outfight most swordsmen and parry arrows mid-flight
Basic understanding of magic: can charm people, shoot fire, some telekinesis and armor enhancement, but nothing on the scale of a true wizard
Adaptability through alchemy: basically a wide array of buffs, from enhanced resilience to better offense, as well as adapting to his environment via darkvision, heat/cold resistance etc.
Enhanced Strength, Toughness and Speed: basically, he's faster and stronger than most people, and can take a lot of punishment
Skilled: highly enhanced perception, alchemy, survival and stealth skills, as well as basic diplomacy. Probably a high Bluff (as in seduction) skill, given his prowess in the books


Now, my gut reaction is to go Factotum/Warblade, but I can't come up with a way of multiclassing without gimping myself.

[Zonugal]

Hi Shneekey,
could you help me build Geralt of Rivia (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Geralt)? Basically, these are the traits that define him (from a mechanical point-of-view), if you don't know him already:

Excellent Swordsmanship: can outfight most swordsmen and parry arrows mid-flight
Basic understanding of magic: can charm people, shoot fire, some telekinesis and armor enhancement, but nothing on the scale of a true wizard
Adaptability through alchemy: basically a wide array of buffs, from enhanced resilience to better offense, as well as adapting to his environment via darkvision, heat/cold resistance etc.
Enhanced Strength, Toughness and Speed: basically, he's faster and stronger than most people, and can take a lot of punishment
Skilled: highly enhanced perception, alchemy, survival and stealth skills, as well as basic diplomacy. Probably a high Bluff (as in seduction) skill, given his prowess in the books


Now, my gut reaction is to go Factotum/Warblade, but I can't come up with a way of multiclassing without gimping myself.

Maybe something like a Human Paragon 1/Wizard 1/Human Paragon 2/Warblade 4/Jade Pgeonix Mage X (as much as you deem fit)/Warblade X?

[ImperatorK]

Geralt is some kind of mutated human, so his unchanced prowess is probably buffed by some template (in PF it could be Advanced Creature for example).

[Rhaegar14]

Here's an idea.

I want a character who entered into a Faustian Bargain, and regrets it. But, the thing is, he's not confident in his ability to weasel his way out of it. So, instead, he's dedicating all of his effort (and statistical abilities) to the most efficient possible way to try and fight his way out of Baator when his time comes, keeping in mind that he will have basically nothing to work with.

[Grendus]

Hi Shneekey,
could you help me build Geralt of Rivia (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Geralt)? Basically, these are the traits that define him (from a mechanical point-of-view), if you don't know him already:

Excellent Swordsmanship: can outfight most swordsmen and parry arrows mid-flight
Basic understanding of magic: can charm people, shoot fire, some telekinesis and armor enhancement, but nothing on the scale of a true wizard
Adaptability through alchemy: basically a wide array of buffs, from enhanced resilience to better offense, as well as adapting to his environment via darkvision, heat/cold resistance etc.
Enhanced Strength, Toughness and Speed: basically, he's faster and stronger than most people, and can take a lot of punishment
Skilled: highly enhanced perception, alchemy, survival and stealth skills, as well as basic diplomacy. Probably a high Bluff (as in seduction) skill, given his prowess in the books


Now, my gut reaction is to go Factotum/Warblade, but I can't come up with a way of multiclassing without gimping myself.

I'd be tempted to try at a sorcadin build, maybe. Paladin (of whichever alignment) 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellblade 1/Abjurant Champion 5/X. High saves, fairly high melee prowess (and let's face it, Geralt would be past 6th level anyways, which would put him beyond the normal reference of human ability), charisma focus with diplomacy and bluff as a class skills. It may be a bit too high magic, in which case take some PrC's that reduce your caster level (Swiftblade is a good one, the class features make up for the lost caster levels fairly well).

It's what I would take to hunt monsters, a very versatile build.

Edit: I'd also be tempted to try something like Warblade 8/Suel Archanomach 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 8. You end up with fifth level spells, which covers Geralts basic magical abilities, and an initiator level 18, which puts him as an extremely versatile melee combatant. You have charisma focus and both diplomacy and bluff as class skills, and since Geralt is human he qualifies for Able Learner, which means he can keep putting points into them even when he changes to a class with a different social ability as a class skill. You get Spot, Listen, hide, and move silently from Suel Archanomach which explains his observation skills and stealth. The only one I can't explain is the improved toughness, but then, you have access to both warblade maneuvers and transmutation spells, plus you would probably be using at least a 28 point buy.

Alternatively, if you prefer a more mystical fighting style, Swordsage 8/Suel Archanomach 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 8 works as well, since you have to be level 7 to meet the spellcraft prereqs anyways (technically you have a floating level in there, I just tossed it into the initiator levels since an 18th level initiator is incredibly powerful).

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I think most of the abilities you described under adaptability through alchemy can be done through alchemical items if you have lots of splats.

[Redshirt Army]

Here's a build I'd like to see: An sniper focused on the one shot, one kill doctrine. Of course, it's not always viable for that to work out: Very few single shots can take out a dragon. What I'm really focused on here is an archery build that works best with single shots, as opposed to just throwing as many attacks at an enemy as possible.

[Zonugal]

Here's a build I'd like to see: An sniper focused on the one shot, one kill doctrine. Of course, it's not always viable for that to work out: Very few single shots can take out a dragon. What I'm really focused on here is an archery build that works best with single shots, as opposed to just throwing as many attacks at an enemy as possible.

Do you want mundane or magical? Because a Spellwarp Sniper can do a lot with one shot.


Here's an idea.

I want a character who entered into a Faustian Bargain, and regrets it. But, the thing is, he's not confident in his ability to weasel his way out of it. So, instead, he's dedicating all of his effort (and statistical abilities) to the most efficient possible way to try and fight his way out of Baator when his time comes, keeping in mind that he will have basically nothing to work with.

How about for a mundane build utilizing the HellReaver prestige class from Fiendish Codex 2? When used in conjunction with a level of Binder you could have a lot of endurance even in Baator.

[Grendus]

Here's a build I'd like to see: An sniper focused on the one shot, one kill doctrine. Of course, it's not always viable for that to work out: Very few single shots can take out a dragon. What I'm really focused on here is an archery build that works best with single shots, as opposed to just throwing as many attacks at an enemy as possible.

Well... a Scout 3/Rogue 17 with the Swift Ambusher and Improved Skirmish feats gets +14d6 damage if you can get a skirmishing sneak attack. Use the force bow from the D&D TV show to get a ranged power attack, UMD a few scrolls and wands of ranged buff spells, and you would have a fairly powerful sniping ability. But I don't think this will cover it, to drop CR appropriate enemies in one shot you're going to be doing a lot of dipping.

[Redshirt Army]

Do you want mundane or magical? Because a Spellwarp Sniper can do a lot with one shot.


Ideally, mundane, though I'm fine with the character using spells to boost his archery prowess, or imbuing his arrows with spells. Of course, if you can only capture the sniper flavor in a mechanically viable way with a spell-caster (looking over Spellwarp Sniper, it seems to work reasonably well) that's fine, it's just that I really wanna represent elite sharpshooters in D&D, and I'm annoyed with mechanics that impede that (precision damage has a range limit, and rewards taking as many shots as possible).

[Hiro Protagonest]

Here's a build I'd like to see: An sniper focused on the one shot, one kill doctrine. Of course, it's not always viable for that to work out: Very few single shots can take out a dragon. What I'm really focused on here is an archery build that works best with single shots, as opposed to just throwing as many attacks at an enemy as possible.

Four(?) levels in Cragtop Archer (RoS) gives you the ability to fire a single shot as a full-round action, ignoring all penalties for distance.

[Dralnu]

Here's a build I'd like to see: An sniper focused on the one shot, one kill doctrine. Of course, it's not always viable for that to work out: Very few single shots can take out a dragon. What I'm really focused on here is an archery build that works best with single shots, as opposed to just throwing as many attacks at an enemy as possible.

Magical? Easy. Spellwarp Sniper, as someone else suggested.

One more "mundane" method of doing this is dipping like crazy in classes that can boost your damage. For example, Barbarian 1 gives your Rage, so there's +2 damage on your shot. Rogue1 gives you +1d6 sneak attack, and there's prestige classes out there that give you sneak attack in one dip too. Maybe dip Kensai for more strength. Dip ToB for Assassin's Stance and maybe a Desert Wind maneuver like Burning Brand (+1d6 fire). Dip dip dip!

[Zylle]

Reading some really cool things in this thread so I'm hoping for some suggestions for a character I've been trying to build. She worked her way up the ranks through gladiatorial combat and eventually landed herself a cushy job as the head jail keeper/interrogator in the palace dungeons. She's currently a fugitive after taking the fall for a noble who poisoned a prisoner to silence them.

In campaign terms, this is a gestalt campaign starting at level 2 and going until at least level 15, possibly beyond.

In character terms, my concept is sort of an all-purpose brawler. Uses a spiked chain as a primary weapon, but I want her to be able to throw a decent punch and/or kick. Leather armor preferred, and I'd prefer non-spellcasting.

It's kind of thrown me for a loop trying to figure out a gestalt class combination that would accomplish this with a fair amount of synergy; I'm not very familiar with many of the rulebooks outside of the SRD. However, this is an "anything goes" campaign and I'd like some degree of optimization. Thanks for reading! :)

[Zaq]

Here's a build I'd like to see: An sniper focused on the one shot, one kill doctrine. Of course, it's not always viable for that to work out: Very few single shots can take out a dragon. What I'm really focused on here is an archery build that works best with single shots, as opposed to just throwing as many attacks at an enemy as possible.

To me, this screams "arrow laden with the deadliest poison I can get my hands on" more than "with just one of those arrows you could have held off ten of the enemy, and you waste them shooting at deer?!" (Bonus points for catching the reference.) Alternatively, piling a few good SoD spells/effects on an arrow (Spell Storing + Smiting Spell will give you two, dunk it in poison for another, use Poison Spell on the two spells you stored in your arrow, and that's five saving throws right there) will also help. I don't think there's a reliable way to get a single arrow to do enough damage on its own . . . but that doesn't mean it can't be a vector for something really nasty.

Alternatively, there's the good old "Cursed Blade + Arterial Strike = I hope you have Remove Curse! I'ma go hide now" trick . . . which only works with thrown weapons, not arrows, but it's something.

[aegorasc]

i'd like to see a character then is proficient in melee combat and is mad of rubber essentially allowing him to stretch his arms and legs at will. i got the idea form onepeice the main character a netural good pirate.

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC there was a buld that used lots of distance bonuses, and could fire from such a long distance he needed to use divination to see his target... can't remember if the damage output was enough to be a real thread...so yeah.

Edit: Changeling with aberrant bloodline, aberrant reach (I'll leave willing deformity out since that requires being evil) and warshaper levels, you won't get the absurdity of reach Luffy can get but it is a start.

(And luffy is definitely chaotic good BTW)

[Dralnu]

Alright, I got a couple more:

PC ECL 1-10: A Dragonball Z (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonball_z) type of fighter. He adventures primarily to constantly test his strength against worthy adversaries and to better himself physically and spiritually. He's a champion of good and innocents.

I want him to be able to do most of the following:
- fight only with punches and kicks
- move really fast
- attack really fast
- fire energy blasts
- fly
- be able to take a beating

Finally, he needs to be playable from level 1-10.

BBEG CR 15-18: Razia, Archangel of Justice. Razia is an ancient being who was trapped on the world of Azhara during the Great Sundering which now forbids outsiders from leaving or entering. She is an angel and embodiment of goodness and Keeper of a relic that, in the wrong hands, could unleash the terrible god-killer Tenebrous back into existence. Long ago, she worked with mortals to slay Tenebrous and defeat other evils, but as the centuries passed she became disillusioned with the constant squabbling and selfishness of mortals and left the political scene entirely. Now her only concern is guarding the relic.

I want Razia to do most of this:
- be an angel with wings
- wear a badass celestial fullplate that radiates awesome
- wield a huge weapon that is equally awesome, if not moreso
- have a divine + fire theme to her, like white divine flames and whatnot

BBEG CR 18: Chandra the Deceiver, Black Dragon servant of Tenebrous. Chandra was a young servant of Tenebrous when her master was slain in Azhara. Since then, she bid her time, collecting power and influence while waiting for a chance to resurrect her master. The chance finally came when an artifact known as The Gate opened a portal to her realm. She entered the portal and infiltrated the other world connected to hers, gaining power and influence of a mighty evil nation, becoming their most brilliant tactician and general. She convinced this nation to invade her home world through The Gate. Now she leads an army into her homeworld, using invasion as the ultimate cover-up for her plan to retrieve the relics necessary to resurrect Tenebrous.

I want her to:
- be a black dragon
- be a brilliant tactician
- have binder abilities
- be able to disguise herself as a medium humanoid
- have some control over undead

She has resources of a black dragon, so item suggestions are welcomed!

[Grendus]

Reading some really cool things in this thread so I'm hoping for some suggestions for a character I've been trying to build. She worked her way up the ranks through gladiatorial combat and eventually landed herself a cushy job as the head jail keeper/interrogator in the palace dungeons. She's currently a fugitive after taking the fall for a noble who poisoned a prisoner to silence them.

In campaign terms, this is a gestalt campaign starting at level 2 and going until at least level 15, possibly beyond.

In character terms, my concept is sort of an all-purpose brawler. Uses a spiked chain as a primary weapon, but I want her to be able to throw a decent punch and/or kick. Leather armor preferred, and I'd prefer non-spellcasting.

It's kind of thrown me for a loop trying to figure out a gestalt class combination that would accomplish this with a fair amount of synergy; I'm not very familiar with many of the rulebooks outside of the SRD. However, this is an "anything goes" campaign and I'd like some degree of optimization. Thanks for reading! :)

I could use some more clarification on the concept, but I'll give it a shot. A Warblade with EWP and Improved Unarmed Strike can fill that concept just fine. Since you said you'd prefer non-spellcasting, though, I'm going to assume that martial adepts are probably more complicated than you want as well, they play very much like a gish class.



Something like a Goliath Barbarian 6/Frenzied Berserker 9//LA 1/Monk 2/Fighter 9/Exotic Weapon Master 3. Take the Goliath racial substitution level from RoS for Mountain Rage, the Wolf Totem variant from Unearthed Arcana (if you don't mind giving up the speed, take the Lion Totem variant from Complete Champion as well, it's the nicest thing melee ever got after Tome of Battle), and the Dungeon Crasher Fighter and Zhentarim Fighter variants from Dungeonscape and... I think Zhentarim Fighter comes from the Champions of Valor web enhancement. Select Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes as your monk bonus feats, and Flurry of Strikes, Trip Attack, and Show Off as your Exotic Weapon Master tricks.

The end result is a mundane-ish (you're a 9 foot tall rocky humanoid, but you don't go in for weebo fighting magicks) character with a fair bit of variety. Your feats are mostly locked, but they're mostly good as well. To start with, if you on the defensive you're a tripper. Combat Reflexes with a Spiked Chain, Powerful Build, and Improved Trip means that nothing tripable can come within 10 feet of you, 15 if you can get the wizard to give you Enlarge Person. Your AC will always be low, I'm afraid, but I wouldn't worry about that too much. You have good health and between your reach weapon and tripping most melee won't be able to touch you (archers will be your bane, as will wizards, but then, they pwn everybody). You can also grapple fairly well, with your large size and Improved Grapple you can go toe to toe with many moderate sized monsters and hold them down while your allies beat them into a paste. Most of the creatures who want to grapple you will probably be too tough for you to beat their checks, but medium to large grapplers should be within your reach easily enough.

Where this build really shines though is on the offensive. Rage gives you a whopping +4 to your strength and lets you intimidate one enemy you can see as a free action (which you can then stack with Show Off from Exotic Weapon Master if you want to), as well as increasing your reach. If you spend one of your not locked feats on Shock Trooper and Leap Attack, you get a ridiculous 5/1 ratio on your power attack, 6/1 at the next level and can put the penalty on your AC instead, which is already so low you might as well just not have the enemy roll so the extra penalties are no biggie. You can also frenzy, which gives even bigger bonuses (and explicitly stacks with Rage - how would you like +14 strength?) including a bonus attack per round. Stack that with the Flurry of Strikes trick from Exotic Weapon Master and your level 15 goliath barbarian is attacking five frickin times per round with ridiculous modifiers all over the place.

You also have some great options against groups. You can bull rush enemies into walls for 8d6+3xStr, and if you take Combat Brute you can bull rush them into each other for free trip attempts, which is great in crowded battlefields. You can intimidate as a swift action, which you can then apply to all enemies nearby if you take the Never Outnumbered skill trick. Every time you kill an enemy (which you will do fairly often in mook-heavy fights) you can cleave into a second enemy, and take a five foot step as well. You can flurry of strikes.


I'm not sure this covers everything, but it's a fairly nasty bruiser. Unless you're looking for more of a tank-ish type, this seems to fit the criteria.

Edit: you will need to get the DM to waive the alignment restrictions on either barbarian or monk. Neither makes sense anyways (why can't you have a traditional barbarian, or a sect of separatist monks?), you just have to convince the DM to ignore it. Otherwise, you have to replace the monk levels with something, still not sure what. I think there may have been an alternate monk class published somewhere, though I think it was Dragon material so it may not work for the purposes of this challenge.

[Zaq]

Alright, I got a couple more:

PC ECL 1-10: A Dragonball Z (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonball_z) type of fighter. He adventures primarily to constantly test his strength against worthy adversaries and to better himself physically and spiritually. He's a champion of good and innocents.

I want him to be able to do most of the following:
- fight only with punches and kicks
- move really fast
- attack really fast
- fire energy blasts
- fly
- be able to take a beating

Finally, he needs to be playable from level 1-10.


Jade Phoenix Mage. No, really. Jade Phoenix Mage. That does this exactly. Just mix Swordsage and your arcane class of choice to the balance you prefer, then jump into JPM and have fun.

[dextercorvia]

i'd like to see a character then is proficient in melee combat and is mad of rubber essentially allowing him to stretch his arms and legs at will. i got the idea form onepeice the main character a netural good pirate.


Edit: Changeling with aberrant bloodline, aberrant reach (I'll leave willing deformity out since that requires being evil) and warshaper levels, you won't get the absurdity of reach Luffy can get but it is a start.

(And luffy is definitely chaotic good BTW)

You can add in Extended Reach from Savage Species for an extra +5'.

[dextercorvia]

Prompted by another thread, can we build a 20th level character with all of the pertinent traits and immunities of a Tarrasque, that would still be viable in play. I realize that it will need to have other abilities, too, in order to meet the viability clause.

[The Rabbler]

BBEG CR 15-18: Razia, Archangel of Justice. Razia is an ancient being who was trapped on the world of Azhara during the Great Sundering which now forbids outsiders from leaving or entering. She is an angel and embodiment of goodness and Keeper of a relic that, in the wrong hands, could unleash the terrible god-killer Tenebrous back into existence. Long ago, she worked with mortals to slay Tenebrous and defeat other evils, but as the centuries passed she became disillusioned with the constant squabbling and selfishness of mortals and left the political scene entirely. Now her only concern is guarding the relic.

I want Razia to do most of this:
- be an angel with wings
- wear a badass celestial fullplate that radiates awesome
- wield a huge weapon that is equally awesome, if not moreso
- have a divine + fire theme to her, like white divine flames and whatnot

cleric/crusader/ruby knight windicator build. slap on grafted angel wings and you can have her be just about any race you like.

[Grendus]

cleric/crusader/ruby knight windicator build. slap on grafted angel wings and you can have her be just about any race you like.

For a huge weapon, make it a Goliath or Half-Giant, or take Jotunbrund or Monkey Grip feat. Drink a potion of Enlarge Person and you're now wielding a huge sized weapon. Now, just make it badass.

[mootoall]

Check out the Emerald Legion. They're far above ECL 20, but if you want immunities you'll get tons of ideas from them. Also, other than "Unable to die excepting Wish," don't they just have Regeneration, Immunity to Ability Damage, and Allip Vulnerability?

[dextercorvia]

Check out the Emerald Legion. They're far above ECL 20, but if you want immunities you'll get tons of ideas from them. Also, other than "Unable to die excepting Wish," don't they just have Regeneration, Immunity to Ability Damage, and Allip Vulnerability?

Augmented critical, frightful presence, improved grab, rush, swallow whole

Carapace, damage reduction 15/epic, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, regeneration 40, scent, spell resistance 32

The Emerald Legion isn't playable, though IIRC.

I'm not so worried about the Wish thing.

[mootoall]

Well DR 15/epic is kinda lame, and DR/- is better and easily obtainable, Immunity to Fire is trivial, Immunity to Poison, blah blah blah is all handled by Necropolitan, SR that high can almost be matched by a Drow, and Regeneration's amount hardly matters so long as you can get it. That's difficult with Necropolitan, since Troll Blooded doesn't work, but I'm sure someone can give you an idea.

[OracleofSilence]

Hmm, i've been working on this for a while, and i must admit i am stumped.

Alright, what about unarmed fighter, with access to a finite but regenerating pool of extremely powerful fire magic. Human (if possible), and should remain SRD if at all possible (in particular should avoid the ToB), but no problem if this cannot be accomplished. Should tank proficiently, and should definately be the front line combatant for the party.

Any thoughts?

[Urpriest]

Augmented critical, frightful presence, improved grab, rush, swallow whole

Carapace, damage reduction 15/epic, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, regeneration 40, scent, spell resistance 32

The Emerald Legion isn't playable, though IIRC.

I'm not so worried about the Wish thing.

Ok, but since this thread is based around providing fluff constraints rather than mechanical ones, we need to break this down fluffwise:

The character is a potent grappler and natural attacker, scares away weaker foes, can go very fast sometimes, shrugs off blows, immune or highly resistant to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, has some sort of self-healing, can find foes by sense of smell, can reflect rays and/or magic missile, resistant to spells, and very difficult to kill.

So still tricky, but a little more doable. I'd probably start with a Cleric/Totemist/Sapphire Hierarch and go from there.

[Redshirt Army]

Hmm, i've been working on this for a while, and i must admit i am stumped.

Alright, what about unarmed fighter, with access to a finite but regenerating pool of extremely powerful fire magic. Human (if possible), and should remain SRD if at all possible (in particular should avoid the ToB), but no problem if this cannot be accomplished. Should tank proficiently, and should definately be the front line combatant for the party.

Any thoughts?

Short of the ToB (which you explicitly don't want), the only way I know of to get regenerating fire magic is to go psionic with one of the recharge tricks. If you're okay with that, just go psychic warrior and take Expanded Knowledge for the blasty powers of your choice. If the fire isn't powerful enough for you, you could prolly do some form of psionic gish with psion or erudite, though I'm not familiar enough with the system to really help you there.

[Longcat]

Hmm, i've been working on this for a while, and i must admit i am stumped.

Alright, what about unarmed fighter, with access to a finite but regenerating pool of extremely powerful fire magic. Human (if possible), and should remain SRD if at all possible (in particular should avoid the ToB), but no problem if this cannot be accomplished. Should tank proficiently, and should definately be the front line combatant for the party.

Any thoughts?

A Human Pyrokineticist could do the trick.

[OracleofSilence]

the psionics one? that may work.

any suggested feats? i recall that that is only d6 HD

[Redshirt Army]

the psionics one? that may work.

any suggested feats? i recall that that is only d6 HD

If it's just the hit die that's a problem, Improved Toughness and Psionic Body can help.

EDIT:

A Human Pyrokineticist could do the trick.

Assuming the "finite but regenerating" is a big deal, Pyrokineticist is out because it's abilities are at-will. That said, it great for a combatant who wants to do fire damage, and since you need a power point pool to get the most out of it, a Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm)/Pyrokineticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) shouldn't do too badly.

[The Rabbler]

Hmm, i've been working on this for a while, and i must admit i am stumped.

Alright, what about unarmed fighter, with access to a finite but regenerating pool of extremely powerful fire magic. Human (if possible), and should remain SRD if at all possible (in particular should avoid the ToB), but no problem if this cannot be accomplished. Should tank proficiently, and should definately be the front line combatant for the party.

Any thoughts?

When you say regenerating pool of magic, do you mean regenerating at the end of the day?

If not, the only way to do this that I can think of would be unarmed arcane swordsage picking nothing but fire spells for his/her choices. If the fact that it's almost solely ToB can be ignored, that should suit your character to a T. And, to make the character more powerful, you could dip warblade before entering Jade Phoenix Mage and be awesome at both melee and casting spells.

If it simply can't be ingored, you could try a gish build with arcane thesis, sanctum spell, and repeat spell on mage's lucubration. What it does is it allows you to prepare the spell (5th level) once, then use the spell to re-prepare any 5th level or lower spell (any of the fire magic you want) and re-prepare mage's lucubration using the second casting from repeat spell. It effectively gets you back all 5th level and lower spells whenever you have enough rounds to spend getting them all back. As those are all feats, it could be done by something like: wizard 4/fighter 1 (getting superior unarmed strike)/abjurant champion 5.

I'm not very good at building gishes, so there might be flaws in the above character build, but the mage's lucubration trick does indeed work.

EDIT: throwing in a good way to persist wraithstrike would also help a bit.

[Zylle]

I could use some more clarification on the concept, but I'll give it a shot. A Warblade with EWP and Improved Unarmed Strike can fill that concept just fine. Since you said you'd prefer non-spellcasting, though, I'm going to assume that martial adepts are probably more complicated than you want as well, they play very much like a gish class.


This looks... really awesome! :) I don't think it will be too much trouble to talk the DM into waiving alignment restrictions but if not I've got some good stuff to work with here. I forgot to mention in my original post that this character was meant to be human, but after looking at Goliath, powerful build looks too good to pass up.

Thanks! :)

[Grendus]

Hmm, i've been working on this for a while, and i must admit i am stumped.

Alright, what about unarmed fighter, with access to a finite but regenerating pool of extremely powerful fire magic. Human (if possible), and should remain SRD if at all possible (in particular should avoid the ToB), but no problem if this cannot be accomplished. Should tank proficiently, and should definately be the front line combatant for the party.

Any thoughts?

Not sure if it's SRD, but I'm thinking a Feral Human Ardent. You get powerful natural attacks, proficiency with all armors with some natural armor on top, fast healing, and psionic abilities. The Energy mantle and the Overchannel feat gives you the ability to go psionic nova. You might want to invest a feat in Expanded Knowledge (Energy Missile). This leaves you with several mantles and pretty much all your feats to customize.

That should fit the bill - unarmed tank with powerful fire 'magic'.

[Essence_of_War]

Not to steal Grendus' thunder, but to keep it core you can make this work with a Wilder.

Be a feral human (+1 LA) take a level of fighter(or 2 levels in a paladin variant to get the Cha to saves) to get heavy armor proficiency, and then stay in the Wilder from there. Take the "Educated Wilder" ACF if possible to expand your power list a little, but from the wilder list pick a few direct-damage energy powers and go from there.

Wear the heaviest armor you can afford, fight with your natural melee attacks, and explode (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyBurst.htm), or hurl bolts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyBolt.htm) of fire whenever thematically appropriate. The Wilder's 3/4 BAB isn't amazing, but it is high enough to keep you relevant and your key stats should be only Cha, Str, and Con.

I don't have the feral template in front of me so you might want to reconsider that if it has a penalty to charisma :smallbiggrin:

[Grendus]

The reason I went with Ardent is Feral template gives a +2 wisdom bonus. No charisma penalty, but Ardent can make better use of the stat bonuses. Psychic Warrior works too, and in fact is probably a better tank, but you would have to spend feats on Expanded Knowledge to get the fire flavor you want. Ardent gives you 3/4 BAB, wis based, and you can choose mantles to gain the melee prowess you need.

[The Rabbler]

Isn't feral non-core?

[Urpriest]

Isn't feral non-core?

As is Ardent. But the whole point of this thread is disregarding such restrictions, IIRC.

[Essence_of_War]

Easy workaround to feral:

Be a human, take imp. unarmed strike :smallbiggrin:

[mootoall]

Yes it is, you rabble rouser you. I'd go with Phrenic and an actual fight-y class if we're taking LA, then ask to be able to customize your PLAs.

[The Rabbler]

As is Ardent. But the whole point of this thread is disregarding such restrictions, IIRC.

my point in mentioning such was that somewhere above someone commented that ardent wouldn't work because it was non-core and then using feral in the next paragraph.

[Grendus]

Not sure why core got dragged into this, the requirement was SRD only.

[Zonugal]

Hey.

How would you create a Necron Lord (from Warhammer 40k universe)?
An almost undestructible (undead) robot with great melee power (natural claw attacks?), invisibility, stuns, short range teleports, the ability to heal/resurrect fallen allies and so on.
I am looking for a build that does not require a great deal of buffing time per combat - the less the better.

I honestly would do a traditional Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 10 to capture the whole Undead-Egyptian flavor that the Necrons seem to be all about. Regarding their weaponry most spells/magic weaponry that use acid or sonic (depending on how 'advanced tech' you want to go). For his abilities simply use spells to simulate them. Heck with Cleric levels make the C'tan one of your deities.

[Draz74]

Yeah, well, asking for an SRD-based (and especially no-ToB) build was kind of off-topic in this thread anyway.


The reason I went with Ardent is Feral template gives a +2 wisdom bonus. No charisma penalty, but Ardent can make better use of the stat bonuses. Psychic Warrior works too, and in fact is probably a better tank, but you would have to spend feats on Expanded Knowledge to get the fire flavor you want. Ardent gives you 3/4 BAB, wis based, and you can choose mantles to gain the melee prowess you need.

Only one feat necessary; just use the Mantled Warrior ACF to pick up the Energy Mantle.

[Grendus]

Yeah, well, asking for an SRD-based (and especially no-ToB) build was kind of off-topic in this thread anyway.



Only one feat necessary; just use the Mantled Warrior ACF to pick up the Energy Mantle.

Fair enough, though I'd take Ardent anyways - better power selection and more points. Then again, none of my suggestion was SRD - neither ardent nor feral were ever officially released to the SRD to my knowledge.

For SRD only, go with psychic warrior and Expanded Knowledge to learn some fire powers. If you're willing to use official but non-SRD material, Feral Ardent.

[Rhaegar14]

Here's an idea.

I want a character who entered into a Faustian Bargain, and regrets it. But, the thing is, he's not confident in his ability to weasel his way out of it. So, instead, he's dedicating all of his effort (and statistical abilities) to the most efficient possible way to try and fight his way out of Baator when his time comes, keeping in mind that he will have basically nothing to work with.

This was kind of forgotten, and I wanted a little more feedback than I got:


How about for a mundane build utilizing the HellReaver prestige class from Fiendish Codex 2? When used in conjunction with a level of Binder you could have a lot of endurance even in Baator.

[Grendus]

Here's an idea.

I want a character who entered into a Faustian Bargain, and regrets it. But, the thing is, he's not confident in his ability to weasel his way out of it. So, instead, he's dedicating all of his effort (and statistical abilities) to the most efficient possible way to try and fight his way out of Baator when his time comes, keeping in mind that he will have basically nothing to work with.

Hmm, ok, there are two possible ways to go about this. The first would be to play a bard and try to stack your Diplomacy, Knowledge (The Planes), and Perform (Acting) checks to win your case in Baator, but this very well might not be possible if he willingly made the bargain and the devil made good immediately. The second is to build your character powerful enough to fight your way off the Shelves of the Despond when you arrive. To do that, you would need to be able to fight off groups of Bearded Devils naked. That's... very tough, but probably doable given that they're only CR 5. A lot is going to come down to level, for a level 20 character (even a level 20 monk) it's a trivial task, for a 6th level character with no wealth it would be very, very hard.

We need a few things to survive the Shelves of the Despond. You need flight, since you really don't want to get anywhere near the water. You need to be able to reliably hit 19 AC, which is honestly doable at first level, and you need to be able to deal about 45 damage a round plus extra for penetrating DR. You don't necessarily have to be unarmed the entire time, as you can take a glaive from the first bearded devil you kill. So we're dealing with a character that must be viable with both unarmed and armed combat, needs to be durable enough to last through multiple waves of combat, needs to be able to travel over water without touching it (or risk drinking it and wiping your mind. This just screams unarmed swordsage.

You get unarmed progression and maneuvers, so you can go toe to toe with the Bearded devils fairly well. Wisdom and Dex both go to your AC, and if you take Shadow Blade you can ignore strength entirely and just pump your dex. Vital Recovery will let you heal up somewhat, though grabbing Martial Stance (Martial Spirit) will let you heal yourself by beating up other despond souls (you are lawful evil, after all). Shadow Jaunt will let you teleport between rocks to avoid the water. Now you just have to find your way out of the plane.

All of this can, of course, be avoided by an atonement spell. If you're genuinely remorseful, that will change your alignment and save you from the 9 hells.

[Hazzardevil]

Hmm, ok, there are two possible ways to go about this. The first would be to play a bard and try to stack your Diplomacy, Knowledge (The Planes), and Perform (Acting) checks to win your case in Baator, but this very well might not be possible if he willingly made the bargain and the devil made good immediately. The second is to build your character powerful enough to fight your way off the Shelves of the Despond when you arrive. To do that, you would need to be able to fight off groups of Bearded Devils naked. That's... very tough, but probably doable given that they're only CR 5. A lot is going to come down to level, for a level 20 character (even a level 20 monk) it's a trivial task, for a 6th level character with no wealth it would be very, very hard.

We need a few things to survive the Shelves of the Despond. You need flight, since you really don't want to get anywhere near the water. You need to be able to reliably hit 19 AC, which is honestly doable at first level, and you need to be able to deal about 45 damage a round plus extra for penetrating DR. You don't necessarily have to be unarmed the entire time, as you can take a glaive from the first bearded devil you kill. So we're dealing with a character that must be viable with both unarmed and armed combat, needs to be durable enough to last through multiple waves of combat, needs to be able to travel over water without touching it (or risk drinking it and wiping your mind. This just screams unarmed swordsage.

You get unarmed progression and maneuvers, so you can go toe to toe with the Bearded devils fairly well. Wisdom and Dex both go to your AC, and if you take Shadow Blade you can ignore strength entirely and just pump your dex. Vital Recovery will let you heal up somewhat, though grabbing Martial Stance (Martial Spirit) will let you heal yourself by beating up other despond souls (you are lawful evil, after all). Shadow Jaunt will let you teleport between rocks to avoid the water. Now you just have to find your way out of the plane.

All of this can, of course, be avoided by an atonement spell. If you're genuinely remorseful, that will change your alignment and save you from the 9 hells.

Breaking out of Baator sounds fun, I want to try it now.

Also, this may seem a bit too long ago but could someone explain why all the levels are in there to me?

That looks like Azurin Bard3/Totemist2/HumanParagon2/UrbanSoul3 to me. Feats include Dragontouched, Draconic Heritage:Battle, Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the Heart, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity

You will want to bind the Manticore Belt to your Totem Chakra. You'll be able to make 4-5 attacks (30' range increment) each with +4d6 Sonic damage or so as a standard action. Other melds to consider include Blink Shirt and Dread Carapace. You'd benefit from Knowledge Devotion if you can fit it in there.

I understand Urban soul, but I don't understand the more than one level of bard.

[mootoall]

I'm not sure, 'cause I can't check the SRD/my books from where I am, but when do you get Inspire Competence? Because that's a prereq for Song of the Heart.

[The Rabbler]

I'm not sure, 'cause I can't check the SRD/my books from where I am, but when do you get Inspire Competence? Because that's a prereq for Song of the Heart.

inspire competence is a bardic music ability that you get at bard level 3. It gives a +2 competence bonus on any skill check that makes sense, ie: not move silently or listen.

[mootoall]

Yup, then that's the reason. Prereq for an awesome feat.

[Urpriest]

snip

IIRC once you arrive on the Shelves of Despond you are a Petitioner (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineMinions.htm). I haven't checked, but are all of the elements of that build retained after that template is applied?

[Grendus]

IIRC once you arrive on the Shelves of Despond you are a Petitioner (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineMinions.htm). I haven't checked, but are all of the elements of that build retained after that template is applied?

Reading the page, I see nothing that says that you become a petitioner when arriving on the Shelves of Despond. Becoming a petitioner is an act of "Devotion to [your] deity by traveling to the deity's home plane". Though honestly, the best way to avoid paying your soul to Baator is to work out a deal with the devil you sold your soul to. Souls are a commodity, after all, if you can work out a equitable trade (even something as non-magical as gold can be a fair trade to an imp, since devils need money to fund the blood war and to finance their cults and corruption on the prime material). Once the devils aren't trying to kill you anymore, become a lich and live forever. Simple enough.

[Urpriest]

Reading the page, I see nothing that says that you become a petitioner when arriving on the Shelves of Despond. Becoming a petitioner is an act of "Devotion to [your] deity by traveling to the deity's home plane". Though honestly, the best way to avoid paying your soul to Baator is to work out a deal with the devil you sold your soul to. Souls are a commodity, after all, if you can work out a equitable trade (even something as non-magical as gold can be a fair trade to an imp, since devils need money to fund the blood war and to finance their cults and corruption on the prime material). Once the devils aren't trying to kill you anymore, become a lich and live forever. Simple enough.

The Deities and Demigods entry lists Petitioners as devoted servants of the deities because that is the role of theirs most relevant to that sourcebook. However, Manual of the Planes makes it clear that every dead soul that is not immediately merged with the plane/reincarnated/given a powerful outsider form becomes a Petitioner. In particular, the entry for the Nine Hells in Manual of the Planes clarifies that soul shell is just another word for a Petitioner of the Nine Hells.

[Grendus]

Hmm, fair enough. Sooooo... become a lich, live forever, keep your soul to your damn self.

[elliott20]

I got two more that have some slightly different approaches. I'm actually not sure if this breaks the rules of this thread or not, but I thought i'd give it a try.

Both of these NPCs are for the current homebrew project Age of Warriors (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134088&page=28). So, there are some caveats to this:

1. These characters HAVE to use the ToB in their builds.
2. You can use the materials in the Age of Warriors archives (http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/)
3. If possible, avoid outright arcane casting builds. (Since this is supposed to be a somewhat low level magic setting) This especially goes for the blade celestial. While I'm OK with him being say, a reflavored blaster arcane caster, I would like to use as much of the ToB material as possible for it.

Alright, on with the characters.

Kalen Von, the swordmaster of the ages

Kalen Von
Age: let's say, mid 60s
Appearance: stereotypical chinese master look. He's an unassuming old man, seemingly frail, soft spoken, he carries an intensity within him that he hides beneath his soothing platitudes. Something like this:

http://www.hilarypage.com/HILARY%20PAGE%20-%20Gallery%20porfig_files/ChineseOldMan.jpg

Kalen Von has dedicated his life to the mastery of the sword. through out his life, his swordsmanship often became a reflection of his own philosophical growth. This growth can be seen in both his translated memoirs and by examining the choice of his weapon.



It is believed by many a great masters, that the way of the sword is not just a weapon, but a way of life. Like many of those masters, I have dedicated my entire life in this pursuit, almost obsessively trying to find the ultimate sword. The perfect strike, so to speak.

And yet, after 50 years of study, contemplation, and strife, I have came to this horrible realization:

There is no perfect strike.

No strike, by virtue of existence, can possibly be perfect. The need of the strike alone, has already tainted the very notion of perfection.

I have mapped out my own progression for those who will come after me to bare witness and perhaps learn from what meager wisdom I may have traded for with my youth.

There are 3 levels of swordsmanship:

1st level: You and your blade are one. Your blade is nothing more than an extension of your limb and it's manipulation is no more natural than use of your own hands. You strike like lightning, without hesitation and with blinding accuracy. This is the most dangerous level to stay at for too long, for you strike might one day surpass your own mind, and therefore be without restraint.

2nd level: Speed of thought. That is the crux of the second level. You understand now that all strikes stem not from the limb, the arm, or the body. But rather, it strikes from the mind. With the mind, the will and the heart is what initiates your strike and it is what guides the rest of you. That mind alone, is the source of the weapon. As such, you no longer need your blade. You don't even need a weapon. With your bare hands, you may strike at a foe from 100 paces, using nothing but your own chi.

3rd level: The end of thought. I came to realize and understand the nature of conflict and strife. With the very notion of conflict comes unending strife. The will of the blade begets more conflict and ultimately violence. To end that will, is to achieve ultimate peace, for if the will for conflict is what initiates the blade, then to release that will, is to attain ultimate mastery over the self once again. After all, if one were to strike without thought, one is not thinking. And without the will to strike, one will know peace. with that, he can feel the world around him, react to it in the most natural way. He is like the water, who parts and moves in a stream around his obstacles. There is no conflict, no strife, only knowledge.

--- the late Master Kalen Von
Through his life, he has cycled through several weapons:

The Blue Iron
This is a long sword of exquisite quality, very much the stuff that makes the Green Dynasty pale by comparison. During this period in his life, Kalen Von was a man in his earl to late 20s, driven mostly by the desire to excel in his ability to strike fast and strike accurately. Blue Iron Kalen Von fights primarily by using precise strikes, feints, and highly coordinated combination strikes. That is, at this stage, he is basically a rush down character with the ability to deliver a large number of strikes very quickly and with great level of precision. (diamond mind?)

Mirage Sword
Mirage Sword shows Kalen Von's further development into the "fast" sword philosophy, where his strikes were becoming faster, and faster to the point of his opponents almost not being able to see his sword movements, hence the name. The Mirage Sword is even lighter than the Blue Iron, and is made with much more flexible material. (I would classify it as say, a rapier) As such, this weapon, while not nearly as good for defending against blows, allows him to create even more complex and dizzy sword play. his feints now are even less predictable than before, but at the price for the loss of his ability to block some of the heavier hits. As such, Kalen Von at this stage in his development (somewhere in his early 30s now) had to rely more on his own maneuverability to evade damage than on traditional parrying work.

Heavy Iron Sword
The Mirage Sword faired well for Kalen Von. He was faster than he has ever been in his life, and he has begun to build a name for himself in the martial world. Unfortunately, his reputation is not one of a great swordsman, but one of a great assassin, a murderer. While his strikes became faster and faster, his capacity for others decreased as he resorted more and more often to his blade. In a moment of clarity, he realized what he had become, and he gave up the fast sword in the hopes of finding something that felt right to him. Enter the Heavy Iron sword. The Heavy Iron sword is heavy. Much heavier than the average weapon, and requires considerably more muscle strength to use properly. In addition to that, his sword play had to return to basics, utilizing far simpler strikes with far more power behind each one. The additional strength required to wield his blade also meant he was slower to resort to violence, which helped tame his famed short temper.

Wooden Sword
The Heavy Iron sword period helped build his strength, but it wasn't getting him anywhere that he wanted. To be brutally frank, while his temperament had calmed somewhat, he felt like he was merely a brute swinging a very large piece of metal at times. He then realized an aspect of him that he had not developed, his internal chi. He was still, for all intensive purposes, being defined by the weapon he picked up and by the strength of his blows. In the end, while he had switch to a heavier weapon that required a bit more pause, he was essentially still working on the same path.

He once again gave up the Heavy Iron sword, and picked up a wooden tai chi sword. It was a simple and fragile weapon that is only used in training. With the adaption of this weapon, however, he began to see himself develop a new way of the sword - the tai chi sword. While he might not be able to match the sheer brute force of the heavy iron or the speed and maliciousness of the mirage sword, this new territory he is exploring had taught him the art of using your chi to defend yourself. With the wooden sword, he could by simply making contact with his foe's blade, attempt to read his movements through his foes chi and defend accordingly. while capable of very devastating strikes, his primary strength now is his ability to flow like the water around his opponent, deflecting each blow with the slightest movement, and through this process, outlast his opponent's stamina. He would defeat enemies not by delivering a killing blow, but by simply intimidate them through his swordplay.

Swordless
This is Kalen Von at the height of his sword play. At this stage, he has gained the ability to manifest a weapon just by using his own chi, and can use said chi to enhance his own ability to move, defend and control nearly every aspect of his own body to fantastical affects. Swordless Kalen Von can manifest any of the previous weapon forms, depending upon the situation. In addition, he also has the power to release all of his internal energy into his foe. When not manifesting a weapon, he also can move at great speed, and sometimes can use his chi to create what seems like an inertial barrier to deflect attacks.

At this stage, Kalen Von almost never raises his hand in anger, his legendary temper now tamed as he finally conquered his emotions, attaining near enlightenment. Those who knew him in this phase of his life described that they felt as if they were basking in the warm glow of a gentle spring sun.

Those who would dare challenge him often never could carry through with this threat though, as Kalen Von is also able to turn his placid, gentle aura into an intimidating brewing storm. This simple display of his chi through his aura is often enough to convince his challengers to back down, avoiding the violence all together.

One particular story involved Kalen Von in his later years, tending to his garden when a thief, not knowing who he was about to rob, leaped over the wall and tried to rob Kalen Von at the point of his dagger. Kalen Von, instead of trying to intimidate him or confront him with his name, simply told him to help himself to his money in his desk and the Blue Iron hanging on his wall. "But please leave two coins so I can pay my rent this month, thank you."

And when the thief was about to leave, Kalen Von said to him, "you forgot to say thank you, young man." The thief awkwardly thanked him and then ran off, utterly confused by the whole experience.

A few days later, the thief was captured and was brought to Kalen Von's house by the sentry. Kalen Von calmly told the men that the thief had not stolen from him, but rather he had given him his money and the Blue Iron. The thief was set free as a result. He returned to Kalen Von's dwelling several days later, fully ashamed of himself and asking Kalen Von for his forgiveness. He then asked if Kalen Von would teach him the trade of gardening, so that he too may make an honest living. This was something Kalen Von happily obliged. This thief would later on become one of Kalen Von's best students.

----------

notes: yes, I totally cribbed this off of an old Chinese story. I plagiarize like that.


Notes about Kalen Von
- The key thing about him is that his skill sets evolve over time. He doesn't need to be able to do ALL of it at the same time in the very end. But whatever growth path he takes, it needs to try to follow this progression as closely as possible. So, while he might start off with say, a huge focus in diamond mind, by the later point, he might not have that many maneuvers in it at all.

So, if you guys attempt him, you need to be able to present him in different stages of development

The Blade Celestial, Guardian of the Temple of Nine

The Blade Celestial
He USED to have a name, but over the course of time, people stopped calling him by his real name and simply referred to him by the moniker "The Blade Celestial".

The Blade Celestial is the head of the new Temple of Nine. (The organization that Kalen Von was at one point a member)

During Kalen Von's younger years (whilst he was still in his Blue Iron -> Mirage phase), the Blade Celestial and him were considered the primary contenders to one day take over the leadership of the Temple of Nine. This competition was at first a friendly one until the two men both fell in love with a woman by the name of Ling, the daughter of one of the other instructors within the school. Driven both by love and ambition, the two became increasingly more and more competitive until love and ambition consumed them both.

On a stormy night, the two fought on the rooftops of their school, wanting to decide once and for all who would get to lead the Temple of Nine as well as win Ling's heart. As the entire school watched on from the scaffolding below, the earth trembled and the storm roared at the maelstrom of battle.

The two were determined to fight to the death until Ling jumped in to stop the two. Unfortunately, this killed her as the two, now blinded by bloodlust, could not stop themselves in time before they struck a fatal blow into their own beloved.

Distraught by what he had done, Kalen Von left the school for good, and abandoned the mirage sword as a result. The pair have not set eyes upon each other since.

The Blade Celestial, however, bound by his sense of duty to his school, stayed behind was now the de facto heir to the leadership. When the old master passed away, the Blade Celestial took over leadership of the school, and for the next 30 years built the school into something that resembled more of a martial clan than simply a school.

Appearance: The Blade Celestial maintains a far more classic look about him, resembling Pai Mei in both appearance and feel.

http://paimeiitguy.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/pai_mei.jpg

personality: As result of being an authoritative figure for a large portion of his life Pai Mei, while of similar age to Kalen Von, is visibly more stern and serious than his counterpart. His mannerisms are quite sullen and very serious, as to him he feels there is very little to be gained from fun and games. As such, he is always contemplative and always studious and he does not suffer fools gladly.

He is also stingy with his praises, for to him, needless praises breeds egos and makes people forget to keep their feet on the ground and their out of the clouds. Often, the most praise a student will get for a job well done would be a single smile and a simple nod from the head. (Remember the scene where Pai Mei makes Uma Thurman eat with chopsticks despite having a busted hand? That look right there.)

Fighting Style: Pai Mei is a master of manipulating chi and is capable of using his chi to create fantastical effects. He shows an amazing balance almost impossible to perform by human beings, (such as being able to balance himself on the tip of a blade) as well as some effects that seem like magic itself.

the most famous one he's known for, and the one that earned him the name the Blade Celestial, is the flying blade. Using his chi to manipulate the very space around him, he can actually make his sword act as a projectile that he manipulates through the air with his own energy. At the height of his power, he can command about 4 flying blades and have them fly around his body, creating a blade barrier. He can also stand on a flying blade, and let the blade carry him for quite a bit of distance.

the second technique he's known for is the meteor storm, a technique where he creates thousands of small energy blades with his own chi, and rain them down upon his foe.


Notes on the blade celestial
- Building him is far easier than Kalen Von, as you just need to make sure by the end of his saga, he can pull off the things we described. Some of the numerical aspects like the number of flying swords he can fling around are totally changeable if that makes getting the crunch together easier. In his case though, the challenge will be somehow pulling off the crunch needed while still staying within the rules of I've listed above.

[mootoall]

Hmm, are you averse to using the Pathfinder Soulknife? 'Cause that could represent the "Chi blade" type thing very well, and doesn't have the major suckitude of the 3.5 Soulknife. Check it out, it's on their SRD.

[The Rabbler]

I have an idea for Kalen Von. Instead of actually acquiring new weapons, Have him use a single weapon that he upgrades over time. make his weapon a morphing, sizing, merciful, brilliant energy weapon over time. After that, just emphasize different maneuver syles at different times; Blue Iron is a +1 longsword that he uses lots of the early Iron Heart Maneuvers, Mirage Sword is a +1 morphing rapier and he uses a lot of shadow hand maneuvers. Heavy Iron Sword is a +2 morphing sizing greatsword and he uses a lot of the big hit maneuvers (mountain hammer, lightning throw, etc). Wooden Sword is a +3 morphing sizing merciful katana that he uses a lot of dancing leaf maneuvers for. There's a fairly strong unarmed strike progression in the build for the Unarmed phase. Finally, Chi Blade is a +4 morphing sizing merciful brilliant energy sword that can be any type.

as far as the build itself, Replace Setting Sun with Dancing Leaf and Tiger Claw with Army of One from the Age of Warriors thread.
Human
unarmed Swordsage 2/Warblade 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/Master of the Nine 5
Swordsage IL: 18(.5)
Warblade IL: 19

flaws: shaky

Feats:
human: Adaptive Style
flaw: Desert Wind Dodge
1st: Power Attack
3rd: Improved Initiative
6th: Blind-Fight
9th: anything
12th: anything
15th: anything
18th: anything

for the last four, I'd suggest getting Martial Study x3 and Martial Stance to add to the idea that Kalen Von has tons of maneuvers.

For items: Belt of Battle is a must, Strongarm Bracers really help, and the Shadow Cloak from Drow of the Underdark gets you Abrupt Jaunt 3/day


EDIT: As for the Blade Celestial, Warblade 5/Bloodstorm Blade 10/Master of the Nine 5 should be able to pull it off quite nicely.
He'd have to spend quite a few feats on entry requirements, but it would work.

human: Point Blank Shot
1st: Expeditious Dodge
3rd: Improved Unarmed Strike
5th(bonus): Blind-Fight
6th: Power Attack
8th(bonus): Martial Study: Hand of Death
9th: Adaptive Style
11th(bonus): Superior Unarmed Strike
12th: whatever
14th(bonus): whatever
15th: whatever
18th: whatever

Note: because of Bloodstorm Blade's progression, you'll probably want to spend a couple of feats around 9-12 on martial study, as you can only pick up Iron Heart moves from 6-15. After that, you get plenty of whatever you want, though, so whatever.

The two Blade Celesial moves can be replicated by mithril/adamantine tornado and the Bloodstorm Blade capstone: Blade Storm.

Grab a weapon with whatever you want on it and do some damage.

[RedWarrior0]

I'd like a dwarf who, through the use of various things, is a pain in the rear end to kill, especially via HP damage. Probably a Crusader or Warblade focusing on Stone Dragon, perhaps with some other dips for other bonuses. I'd prefer using Dwarf-only prestige classes, such as Dwarven Defender, Deepwarden (RoS), and Deeproot Sentinel (ToB), but if they don't it's fine. What I'm going for is huge AC and a massive pile of HP, plus being very thematic for a dwarf.

[The Rabbler]

I'd like a dwarf who, through the use of various things, is a pain in the rear end to kill, especially via HP damage. Probably a Crusader or Warblade focusing on Stone Dragon, perhaps with some other dips for other bonuses. I'd prefer using Dwarf-only prestige classes, such as Dwarven Defender, Deepwarden (RoS), and Deeproot Sentinel (ToB), but if they don't it's fine. What I'm going for is huge AC and a massive pile of HP, plus being very thematic for a dwarf.

How about: Dragonborn Earth Dwarf
Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Crusader 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Deepstone Sentinel 5/Crusader 4-9?

You get a bit of Fistbeard Beardfist going in those first 9 levels, then you use them with your various Deepstone Sentinel abilities and top it off with some crusader levels to hit IL 17 and grab all of the nice maneuvers you were missing. The great part is that you don't even need a weapon or armor; just punch everything and get Con-to-AC twice. Swap out crusader for warblade if you want Diamond Mind/Iron Heart instead of Devoted Spirit (but you don't get the I-can't-die-from-damage-stance if you do that).

[Redshirt Army]

Not quite related to the topic, but this seemed like the best place:


Paladin of Freedom means Charisma to AC, with the Complete Champion variant, while still avoiding the stick-up-your-pigu that Badger paladins are so infamous for.

What's this variant called? It'd be great for a character I want to build, but I've looked through Complete Champion as well as the X stat to Y bonus thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) to no avail.

[The Rabbler]

What's this variant called? It'd be great for a character I want to build, but I've looked through Complete Champion as well as the X stat to Y bonus thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) to no avail.

Which Variant? Paladin of Freedom is a UA variant that turns the Paladin from Lawful Good to Chaotic Good, while the Complete Champion variants trade away spellcasting for feats and your mount for lots of underground-focused stuff.

EDIT: If you mean the Cha-to-AC thing, I think that's a mistype. He probably meant Cha to Saves instead.

[Redshirt Army]

Which Variant? Paladin of Freedom is a UA variant that turns the Paladin from Lawful Good to Chaotic Good, while the Complete Champion variants trade away spellcasting for feats and your mount for lots of underground-focused stuff.

And neither of those gives Charisma to AC.


Paladin of Freedom means Charisma to AC, with the Complete Champion variant...

EDIT:

This line:



We are going for AC rather than Saves, because of the Warblade maneuvers that will allow you to shrug off the worst of anything that anyone can offer.

Makes me think that either there actually is a CHA to AC variant (Red Falcon Sub Level maybe? But that ones pretty bad.), and Shneeky listed the wrong source, or that he misremembered there being such an ability in CC. Or we could have both not noticed it in CC. :smalltongue:

[Zonugal]

Here's an idea.

I want a character who entered into a Faustian Bargain, and regrets it. But, the thing is, he's not confident in his ability to weasel his way out of it. So, instead, he's dedicating all of his effort (and statistical abilities) to the most efficient possible way to try and fight his way out of Baator when his time comes, keeping in mind that he will have basically nothing to work with.

Hmm, ok, there are two possible ways to go about this. The first would be to play a bard and try to stack your Diplomacy, Knowledge (The Planes), and Perform (Acting) checks to win your case in Baator, but this very well might not be possible if he willingly made the bargain and the devil made good immediately. The second is to build your character powerful enough to fight your way off the Shelves of the Despond when you arrive. To do that, you would need to be able to fight off groups of Bearded Devils naked. That's... very tough, but probably doable given that they're only CR 5. A lot is going to come down to level, for a level 20 character (even a level 20 monk) it's a trivial task, for a 6th level character with no wealth it would be very, very hard.

We need a few things to survive the Shelves of the Despond. You need flight, since you really don't want to get anywhere near the water. You need to be able to reliably hit 19 AC, which is honestly doable at first level, and you need to be able to deal about 45 damage a round plus extra for penetrating DR. You don't necessarily have to be unarmed the entire time, as you can take a glaive from the first bearded devil you kill. So we're dealing with a character that must be viable with both unarmed and armed combat, needs to be durable enough to last through multiple waves of combat, needs to be able to travel over water without touching it (or risk drinking it and wiping your mind. This just screams unarmed swordsage.

You get unarmed progression and maneuvers, so you can go toe to toe with the Bearded devils fairly well. Wisdom and Dex both go to your AC, and if you take Shadow Blade you can ignore strength entirely and just pump your dex. Vital Recovery will let you heal up somewhat, though grabbing Martial Stance (Martial Spirit) will let you heal yourself by beating up other despond souls (you are lawful evil, after all). Shadow Jaunt will let you teleport between rocks to avoid the water. Now you just have to find your way out of the plane.

All of this can, of course, be avoided by an atonement spell. If you're genuinely remorseful, that will change your alignment and save you from the 9 hells.

So what exactly would you be running into, encounter wise, based upon an escape? I like the idea of The Great Escape based in Baator but so far we have Bearded Devils and mobility-based obstacles, what else comes after it. This might actually make a pretty entertaining run for optimized characters, a pseudo-Challenge course.

Also, are we limited to sixth level for this?

[The Rabbler]

Makes me think that either there actually is a CHA to AC variant (Red Falcon Sub Level maybe? But that ones pretty bad.), and Shneeky listed the wrong source, or that he misremembered there being such an ability in CC. Or we could have both not noticed it in CC. :smalltongue:

There it is, Champions of Valor. I'm AFB, so I can't confirm, but it should be there.

[Grendus]

So what exactly would you be running into, encounter wise, based upon an escape? I like the idea of The Great Escape based in Baator but so far we have Bearded Devils and mobility-based obstacles, what else comes after it. This might actually make a pretty entertaining run for optimized characters, a pseudo-Challenge course.

Also, are we limited to sixth level for this?

At 6th level, you're toast if you're alone, presuming you even keep your class levels. Bearded devils are CR 5 and come with the standard devil schtick - Greater Teleport at will, summon other devils as a standard action, barbarian rage without the fatigue, glaive and natural weapons... yea, just one would be enough to butcher a 6th level character. Even at level 10 two of them would be a tricky encounter, especially buck naked.

Odds are, your first battle would be against a small group of Bearded Devils. Presuming you killed them before they could Greater Teleport away, you would have some time before a search was started. The odds of you surviving are virtually nil though, plenty of people have tried to escape and failed. You would have to deal with packs of Amnizu's (Spot/Listen +17) with Hell Hounds (Track with Spot/Listen +7), Erinyes scouting from the skies (Spot and Listen both at +16), and probably a few higher CR devils to boot.
CR devils scouting as well. Possibly a few imps trying to find you in the hopes of getting credit. Even if you did escape, they would use divination magic to find you and greater teleport to your location and just... bring you back. Freeing people from hell can only be done through diplomacy, jailbreaks in a high magic world just flat don't happen, and Baator is a very high magic world indeed.

Maybe if you were level 20. Maybe. And even then, you would want to negotiate with the devils (they're lawful, maybe do the whole Ghostrider thing and offer to hunt down escapees, or kill the no-longer-useful damned on the prime material).

[Wyntonian]

I'm looking to build the character Rudi/Artos Mackenzie, from the S.M. Stirling books about the Change. He's a fairly badass warrior, in a very, very low-magic setting (again, I don't care how you actually build him, this is all fluff), who one one occasion defeated 30-some angry armed opponents, with only his Samwise-esque archer-bro to help. (He's def a ranger, no need to stat him up). In a more crunchy area, he is also capable of escaping a charging herd of buffalo by leaping from back to buffalo back, calling the hiding people of a town out to defend it after their being whupped by pirates, having a beautiful singing voice, being a charming, savvy diplomat and also being a nice guy.

Aside from skills, he is bonded to a horse he has had since childhood (important), is an expert woodsman and tracker, a skilled archer, lancer and swordsman, and has a couple weird abilities that never really get all the way explained. One, he is able to resist the mind-.....screwing effects of the evil hypnotist bad guys (read: abnormally high will save), as well as his unique fighting style. During fights, he has these poetic, semi-religious visions, and drives himself into a blurring frenzy of attacks. Essentially, it's whirling frenzy, plus every other stat bonus you can think up in one feature a lot like a barbarian's rage.

I'd like to avoid extremely obviously magical effects, meaning that no, he can't be a warlock. Aside from that, take it where you want, and thank you very much.

[RedWarrior0]

With Great Escape, you could do this. It wouldn't actually get you out of Baator, but it could you get out of punishment

1. Stack up on Knowledge (the planes) and Diplomacy. Like, maximum diplomacy mod.
2. Attempt to deal with Bel, the lord of the first layer of the Nine Hells. He is pretty much exclusively aimed at the Blood War, not having time to deal with diabolical politics. Fiendish Codex II states that he is a realist and willing to accept any help, even from a mortal. Try to make your deal with Bel directly, though it may be hard to get.
3. Make this deal with Bel: You kill a demon lord, he takes ownership of your soul from whichever devil did the bargain. However, you are allowed to retain your humanity and free will in exchange for complete loyalty.
3.5 Get the aid of a very high level full caster. Preferably multiple. Get a Cleric who can superbuff you for demon slaying. Do so immediately before the next step.
4. Find someone who is gullible and has a problem (such as a dying relative) convince them of the power of Pazuzu, and that he can grant them the life. However, a person summoning him must be alone. Once you convince the person of this, go a distance aways and hide; hide behind a lead sheet and have your wizard ready to forcecage and dimensional lock and generally prevent big P from escaping.
5. Kill Pazuzu. Collect reward from Bel. You don't get tortured, but you have to fight demons for the remainder of eternity. Woohoo. Plus, if this happens before Pun-Pun, there is no chance of Pun-Pun existing.

Note that, being AFB, I have no clue how hard step five would be. Also, your agreement with Bel should be to bring about the death of a demon lord, not specifically kill. Bel, being a devil, will find and exploit loopholes. Avoid them But this comment probably belongs in the Great Escape thread.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ahh, I apologize for my unseemly vanishing act. I was kidnapped by an evil genius to make the most powerful builds imaginable for him in order to further his goal of world domination. Fortunately, his female mousy yet stunningly attractive assistant was sympathetic to my plight, and helped me escape, as long as she could come with me. I am currently posting this from a little Carribian island, sipping a fruity little drink from a cocoanut shell.


And neither of those gives Charisma to AC.



EDIT:

This line:



Makes me think that either there actually is a CHA to AC variant (Red Falcon Sub Level maybe? But that ones pretty bad.), and Shneeky listed the wrong source, or that he misremembered there being such an ability in CC. Or we could have both not noticed it in CC. :smalltongue:

Sorry, I did mis-type. Cha to AC variant is Champions of Valor (page 48). My apologies.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

From what you've described Wyntonian I'd suggest a Bardblade.

Bard 4/Warblade X

Warblade already has a solid skill list while Bard adds perform and extra ranks.

important bits.

Song of the White Raven (feat) - Warblade levels stack with Bard for Inspire Courage and IC can be activated as a swift action. This will help with calling out villagers to defend their town as well as enhance his overall abilities especially if you use IC optimization could also cover his divine inspiration power.

Moment of perfect mind (maneuver) DM- concentration check in place of will save.

Iron Heart Surge (Maneuver) IH-remove a negative effect. These two should more than cover your resisting magic quota.

Running across the buffallo could be tough. If the game is in a cinematic setting maxed balance (class skill for WB) could do it. The Improvisation spell could give a +8 to this check. Alternatively Fly, swift to just seem to hop around on top this trick could cover lots of other swashbuckling daring.

Beutiful voice, charming, savy diplomat-Bard levels

Bonded Horse- Would the feat that gives anyone an animal companion be sufficient, sorry blanking on the name. If it fits you concept you could go divine bard and have a Prestige Paladin Dip after a sacred exorcist dip for turn undead this would only work if you were't playing from level one and could pretend he'd always had an ability he picked up at lvl 8 or so. Also it requires the mounted combat feat so it's a sizable investment.

Expert tracker and survivalist-Unfortunately you'll need either the savage bard ACF for survival or, burn a feat or get cc ranks but the first level tiger claw stance Hunter's Stance grants the scent ability.

Remaining feats can customize him in any direction as far as fighting abilities go. From what you've described he'd be "complete" at lvl 11.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I got two more that have some slightly different approaches. I'm actually not sure if this breaks the rules of this thread or not, but I thought i'd give it a try.

Both of these NPCs are for the current homebrew project Age of Warriors (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134088&page=28). So, there are some caveats to this:

1. These characters HAVE to use the ToB in their builds.
2. You can use the materials in the Age of Warriors archives (http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/)
3. If possible, avoid outright arcane casting builds. (Since this is supposed to be a somewhat low level magic setting) This especially goes for the blade celestial. While I'm OK with him being say, a reflavored blaster arcane caster, I would like to use as much of the ToB material as possible for it.

Alright, on with the characters.

Kalen Von, the swordmaster of the ages

Kalen Von
Age: let's say, mid 60s
Appearance: stereotypical chinese master look. He's an unassuming old man, seemingly frail, soft spoken, he carries an intensity within him that he hides beneath his soothing platitudes. Something like this:

http://www.hilarypage.com/HILARY%20PAGE%20-%20Gallery%20porfig_files/ChineseOldMan.jpg

Kalen Von has dedicated his life to the mastery of the sword. through out his life, his swordsmanship often became a reflection of his own philosophical growth. This growth can be seen in both his translated memoirs and by examining the choice of his weapon.


Through his life, he has cycled through several weapons:

The Blue Iron
This is a long sword of exquisite quality, very much the stuff that makes the Green Dynasty pale by comparison. During this period in his life, Kalen Von was a man in his earl to late 20s, driven mostly by the desire to excel in his ability to strike fast and strike accurately. Blue Iron Kalen Von fights primarily by using precise strikes, feints, and highly coordinated combination strikes. That is, at this stage, he is basically a rush down character with the ability to deliver a large number of strikes very quickly and with great level of precision. (diamond mind?)

Mirage Sword
Mirage Sword shows Kalen Von's further development into the "fast" sword philosophy, where his strikes were becoming faster, and faster to the point of his opponents almost not being able to see his sword movements, hence the name. The Mirage Sword is even lighter than the Blue Iron, and is made with much more flexible material. (I would classify it as say, a rapier) As such, this weapon, while not nearly as good for defending against blows, allows him to create even more complex and dizzy sword play. his feints now are even less predictable than before, but at the price for the loss of his ability to block some of the heavier hits. As such, Kalen Von at this stage in his development (somewhere in his early 30s now) had to rely more on his own maneuverability to evade damage than on traditional parrying work.

Heavy Iron Sword
The Mirage Sword faired well for Kalen Von. He was faster than he has ever been in his life, and he has begun to build a name for himself in the martial world. Unfortunately, his reputation is not one of a great swordsman, but one of a great assassin, a murderer. While his strikes became faster and faster, his capacity for others decreased as he resorted more and more often to his blade. In a moment of clarity, he realized what he had become, and he gave up the fast sword in the hopes of finding something that felt right to him. Enter the Heavy Iron sword. The Heavy Iron sword is heavy. Much heavier than the average weapon, and requires considerably more muscle strength to use properly. In addition to that, his sword play had to return to basics, utilizing far simpler strikes with far more power behind each one. The additional strength required to wield his blade also meant he was slower to resort to violence, which helped tame his famed short temper.

Wooden Sword
The Heavy Iron sword period helped build his strength, but it wasn't getting him anywhere that he wanted. To be brutally frank, while his temperament had calmed somewhat, he felt like he was merely a brute swinging a very large piece of metal at times. He then realized an aspect of him that he had not developed, his internal chi. He was still, for all intensive purposes, being defined by the weapon he picked up and by the strength of his blows. In the end, while he had switch to a heavier weapon that required a bit more pause, he was essentially still working on the same path.

He once again gave up the Heavy Iron sword, and picked up a wooden tai chi sword. It was a simple and fragile weapon that is only used in training. With the adaption of this weapon, however, he began to see himself develop a new way of the sword - the tai chi sword. While he might not be able to match the sheer brute force of the heavy iron or the speed and maliciousness of the mirage sword, this new territory he is exploring had taught him the art of using your chi to defend yourself. With the wooden sword, he could by simply making contact with his foe's blade, attempt to read his movements through his foes chi and defend accordingly. while capable of very devastating strikes, his primary strength now is his ability to flow like the water around his opponent, deflecting each blow with the slightest movement, and through this process, outlast his opponent's stamina. He would defeat enemies not by delivering a killing blow, but by simply intimidate them through his swordplay.

Swordless
This is Kalen Von at the height of his sword play. At this stage, he has gained the ability to manifest a weapon just by using his own chi, and can use said chi to enhance his own ability to move, defend and control nearly every aspect of his own body to fantastical affects. Swordless Kalen Von can manifest any of the previous weapon forms, depending upon the situation. In addition, he also has the power to release all of his internal energy into his foe. When not manifesting a weapon, he also can move at great speed, and sometimes can use his chi to create what seems like an inertial barrier to deflect attacks.

At this stage, Kalen Von almost never raises his hand in anger, his legendary temper now tamed as he finally conquered his emotions, attaining near enlightenment. Those who knew him in this phase of his life described that they felt as if they were basking in the warm glow of a gentle spring sun.

Those who would dare challenge him often never could carry through with this threat though, as Kalen Von is also able to turn his placid, gentle aura into an intimidating brewing storm. This simple display of his chi through his aura is often enough to convince his challengers to back down, avoiding the violence all together.

One particular story involved Kalen Von in his later years, tending to his garden when a thief, not knowing who he was about to rob, leaped over the wall and tried to rob Kalen Von at the point of his dagger. Kalen Von, instead of trying to intimidate him or confront him with his name, simply told him to help himself to his money in his desk and the Blue Iron hanging on his wall. "But please leave two coins so I can pay my rent this month, thank you."

And when the thief was about to leave, Kalen Von said to him, "you forgot to say thank you, young man." The thief awkwardly thanked him and then ran off, utterly confused by the whole experience.

A few days later, the thief was captured and was brought to Kalen Von's house by the sentry. Kalen Von calmly told the men that the thief had not stolen from him, but rather he had given him his money and the Blue Iron. The thief was set free as a result. He returned to Kalen Von's dwelling several days later, fully ashamed of himself and asking Kalen Von for his forgiveness. He then asked if Kalen Von would teach him the trade of gardening, so that he too may make an honest living. This was something Kalen Von happily obliged. This thief would later on become one of Kalen Von's best students.

----------

notes: yes, I totally cribbed this off of an old Chinese story. I plagiarize like that.


Notes about Kalen Von
- The key thing about him is that his skill sets evolve over time. He doesn't need to be able to do ALL of it at the same time in the very end. But whatever growth path he takes, it needs to try to follow this progression as closely as possible. So, while he might start off with say, a huge focus in diamond mind, by the later point, he might not have that many maneuvers in it at all.

So, if you guys attempt him, you need to be able to present him in different stages of development

The Blade Celestial, Guardian of the Temple of Nine

The Blade Celestial
He USED to have a name, but over the course of time, people stopped calling him by his real name and simply referred to him by the moniker "The Blade Celestial".

The Blade Celestial is the head of the new Temple of Nine. (The organization that Kalen Von was at one point a member)

During Kalen Von's younger years (whilst he was still in his Blue Iron -> Mirage phase), the Blade Celestial and him were considered the primary contenders to one day take over the leadership of the Temple of Nine. This competition was at first a friendly one until the two men both fell in love with a woman by the name of Ling, the daughter of one of the other instructors within the school. Driven both by love and ambition, the two became increasingly more and more competitive until love and ambition consumed them both.

On a stormy night, the two fought on the rooftops of their school, wanting to decide once and for all who would get to lead the Temple of Nine as well as win Ling's heart. As the entire school watched on from the scaffolding below, the earth trembled and the storm roared at the maelstrom of battle.

The two were determined to fight to the death until Ling jumped in to stop the two. Unfortunately, this killed her as the two, now blinded by bloodlust, could not stop themselves in time before they struck a fatal blow into their own beloved.

Distraught by what he had done, Kalen Von left the school for good, and abandoned the mirage sword as a result. The pair have not set eyes upon each other since.

The Blade Celestial, however, bound by his sense of duty to his school, stayed behind was now the de facto heir to the leadership. When the old master passed away, the Blade Celestial took over leadership of the school, and for the next 30 years built the school into something that resembled more of a martial clan than simply a school.

Appearance: The Blade Celestial maintains a far more classic look about him, resembling Pai Mei in both appearance and feel.

http://paimeiitguy.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/pai_mei.jpg

personality: As result of being an authoritative figure for a large portion of his life Pai Mei, while of similar age to Kalen Von, is visibly more stern and serious than his counterpart. His mannerisms are quite sullen and very serious, as to him he feels there is very little to be gained from fun and games. As such, he is always contemplative and always studious and he does not suffer fools gladly.

He is also stingy with his praises, for to him, needless praises breeds egos and makes people forget to keep their feet on the ground and their out of the clouds. Often, the most praise a student will get for a job well done would be a single smile and a simple nod from the head. (Remember the scene where Pai Mei makes Uma Thurman eat with chopsticks despite having a busted hand? That look right there.)

Fighting Style: Pai Mei is a master of manipulating chi and is capable of using his chi to create fantastical effects. He shows an amazing balance almost impossible to perform by human beings, (such as being able to balance himself on the tip of a blade) as well as some effects that seem like magic itself.

the most famous one he's known for, and the one that earned him the name the Blade Celestial, is the flying blade. Using his chi to manipulate the very space around him, he can actually make his sword act as a projectile that he manipulates through the air with his own energy. At the height of his power, he can command about 4 flying blades and have them fly around his body, creating a blade barrier. He can also stand on a flying blade, and let the blade carry him for quite a bit of distance.

the second technique he's known for is the meteor storm, a technique where he creates thousands of small energy blades with his own chi, and rain them down upon his foe.


Notes on the blade celestial
- Building him is far easier than Kalen Von, as you just need to make sure by the end of his saga, he can pull off the things we described. Some of the numerical aspects like the number of flying swords he can fling around are totally changeable if that makes getting the crunch together easier. In his case though, the challenge will be somehow pulling off the crunch needed while still staying within the rules of I've listed above.

Ahh yes, the journey to enlightenment is an unending, yet unendingly fulfilling. It is well that you wish ToB, for that will be the only way to accurately represent his abilities.

You can trade out maneuvers when you level up, which helps his shifting abilities, trading out less useful ones for more useful ones later.

Right now, I'm looking at Swordsage15/Master of Nine5. Really, nothing else can do the job properly.

Unarmed Swordsage doesn't remove weapon proficencies, it simply gives him monk unarmed attack damage, in exchange for armor proficiency. Since he never uses armor anyways, it's definitely the way to go. You may wish to handwave the technicality of swordsages only gaining AC bonus based on Wisdom with Light armor, and allow him to get that bonus while wearing no armor as well.

Now then, as for his unique abilities:

Blue Iron Kalen Von probably used a bunch of Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw, with a bit of Stone Dragon to bypass DR.

Mirage Sword style probably used a bit more Setting Sun for defense and counters. Baffling Defense + Shifting Defense combo comes readily to mind (Sense Motive vs attack roll to negate attack, then take the 5' step after he misses to prevent the rest of the full attack). Setting Sun has so many counters, that it seems as though he has some superior Haste effect on, when really, he's just getting a whole boatload of counterattacks. Karmic Strike or Robliar's Gambit is also probably going to be featured here. A Swordsage with Setting Sun and Karmic Strike can get a stupid number of attacks when it is not his turn, making it seem like he is a blur of movement, while simultaneously somehow mysteriously avoiding all of his opponent's blows.

Heavy Iron Sword Style was when he first got into Master of Nine (probably around CL 10 or so). He started picking up more Stone Dragon and some Iron Heart moves.

Wooden Sword style was when he started using a combination of Iron Heart and Setting Sun to simply say 'no' to any sort of attack. He also picks up Imperious Command at this point to be able to make an Intimidate Check to force an opponent to be Cowering. He already has Wis bonus to AC, but now is when it's really starting to stack up. He also uses some Diamond Mind counters as well, reacting to opponent's moves before they are finished executing them.

Swordless: Okay, by the way you phrased the description, it's clear you were thinking Psionics, with Hustle and Inertial Barrier, as well as Call Weaponry. Sure, you can do that if you want to, although it's probably a rather convoluted way to do things, considering you won't have many PP to play with.

Most of these abilities can be done within ToB. 'inertial barrier' can just as easily be 'bracers of armor +x', since by now he's getting close to epic, he can easily afford them. And who can tell they are there, under those heavy sleeves? That, plus his bonus to AC from Wis and class levels, make him surprisingly difficult to hit in combat. There's plenty of speed-boosting effects in ToB, the Shadow Blink series prominently comes to mind. With various extra-dimensional storage devices at your disposal (Glove of Storing, Sash of Many Pockets, etc...), you can pull your sword out of Hammerspace thin air at any time.

Likewise with the Celestial Blade, Swordsage easily encompasses everything you're talking about.

[JKTrickster]

Hey Shneekey! I really like what you're doing here! Here's another build request: hope this doesn't get too old :smallwink:

I want to try my hand at the archetypal Mongol warrior, the legendary killers who would strike fear even into the staunchest of warriors, fell heavily armored knights from an entire mile away, while bounding forward on their deathly steeds before you could even rescue their wounded. Their tenacity was so legendary, they say they would ride day and night, sustaining themselves on nothing but the blood from their horses.

I want to be a Mounted Archer :smallamused:.

Not too many specifics, but I wish it keep the "hardcore tenacity" part but that's more like how I roleplay anyway so that's fine to gloss over. But this should be someone who can pack a PUNCH. Like an army of these fellows should WIPE the floor with anyone else. He (or she) has to be able to move in and out quickly on their mount, and deliver death from far away. And not just pew-pew-pew damage death that takes forever. The Mongols were quick and efficient and their bows often killed you before you even realized that they were coming.

So basically I'm asking for the Lightning Bruiser (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightningBruiser) of DnD :smalltongue:

I know this is hard so I won't add any more specifics. Use spells if necessary! I would like to see some kind of mount focus on not just "And when you feel like it, ride a horse around and call yourself Mongol" if you know what I mean.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Hey Shneekey! I really like what you're doing here! Here's another build request: hope this doesn't get too old :smallwink:

I want to try my hand at the archetypal Mongol warrior, the legendary killers who would strike fear even into the staunchest of warriors, fell heavily armored knights from an entire mile away, while bounding forward on their deathly steeds before you could even rescue their wounded. Their tenacity was so legendary, they say they would ride day and night, sustaining themselves on nothing but the blood from their horses.

I want to be a Mounted Archer :smallamused:.

Not too many specifics, but I wish it keep the "hardcore tenacity" part but that's more like how I roleplay anyway so that's fine to gloss over. But this should be someone who can pack a PUNCH. Like an army of these fellows should WIPE the floor with anyone else. He (or she) has to be able to move in and out quickly on their mount, and deliver death from far away. And not just pew-pew-pew damage death that takes forever. The Mongols were quick and efficient and their bows often killed you before you even realized that they were coming.

So basically I'm asking for the Lightning Bruiser (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightningBruiser) of DnD :smalltongue:

I know this is hard so I won't add any more specifics. Use spells if necessary! I would like to see some kind of mount focus on not just "And when you feel like it, ride a horse around and call yourself Mongol" if you know what I mean.

Be a level 6 human ranger. Max ranks in ride and spot, archery combat style, horse animal companion. Take mounted combat, mounted archery, point blank shot, and far shot.



Swordless: Okay, by the way you phrased the description, it's clear you were thinking Psionics, with Hustle and Inertial Barrier, as well as Call Weaponry. Sure, you can do that if you want to, although it's probably a rather convoluted way to do things, considering you won't have many PP to play with.

Most of these abilities can be done within ToB. 'inertial barrier' can just as easily be 'bracers of armor +x', since by now he's getting close to epic, he can easily afford them. And who can tell they are there, under those heavy sleeves? That, plus his bonus to AC from Wis and class levels, make him surprisingly difficult to hit in combat. There's plenty of speed-boosting effects in ToB, the Shadow Blink series prominently comes to mind. With various extra-dimensional storage devices at your disposal (Glove of Storing, Sash of Many Pockets, etc...), you can pull your sword out of Hammerspace thin air at any time.
For cowing opponents before battle starts, unnerving calm can simulate the change in his aura while he just stays the same.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Hey Shneekey! I really like what you're doing here! Here's another build request: hope this doesn't get too old :smallwink:

I want to try my hand at the archetypal Mongol warrior, the legendary killers who would strike fear even into the staunchest of warriors, fell heavily armored knights from an entire mile away, while bounding forward on their deathly steeds before you could even rescue their wounded. Their tenacity was so legendary, they say they would ride day and night, sustaining themselves on nothing but the blood from their horses.

I want to be a Mounted Archer :smallamused:.

Not too many specifics, but I wish it keep the "hardcore tenacity" part but that's more like how I roleplay anyway so that's fine to gloss over. But this should be someone who can pack a PUNCH. Like an army of these fellows should WIPE the floor with anyone else. He (or she) has to be able to move in and out quickly on their mount, and deliver death from far away. And not just pew-pew-pew damage death that takes forever. The Mongols were quick and efficient and their bows often killed you before you even realized that they were coming.

So basically I'm asking for the Lightning Bruiser (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightningBruiser) of DnD :smalltongue:

I know this is hard so I won't add any more specifics. Use spells if necessary! I would like to see some kind of mount focus on not just "And when you feel like it, ride a horse around and call yourself Mongol" if you know what I mean.

Well, here's the thing. Most people? 1st level commoners. They have 4 hit points. It's almost impossible to NOT kill them in one hit after about second level.

Also, by D&D mechanics, anything you can do on horseback, you can do off a horse, without the investment of several feats. So, to a certain extend, any mounted combat build that doesn't involve lances is going to feel like 'and when you feel like it, ride a horse around and call yourself a Mongol'.

No two people are alike, and no two mongols are alike, so here are several generic build concepts which will help you fill your request

First off, Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery are both mandatory for this build. That's a rather expensive feat investment. Therefore, we first look at Fighter2, to represent the intensive training every Mongol goes through before being considered a 'man'. This nets him 3 feats, 4 if Human. So, with these feats we pick up Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Point Blank Shot, and Rapid Shot.

This lets us have a mongol who, at level 2, can fire off two shots from a horse at full gallop, every six seconds. With a decent Composite Longbow (something the Mongols invented anyways), you're doing enough damage per shot to drop any level 1 commoner in their tracks.

From there, we have options.

If you're wanting a huge hulking brute on a horse, you may consider the Whirling Frenzy variant of Barbarian. Nothing says you cannot use ranged weapons in Rage, and Whirling Frenzy gives you a Haste effect. Now you're shooting 3 shots per round at level 3. Not too shabby, eh?

But there's another ACF we can take as well. You see, Fast Movement is completely worthless to a mounted archer, so trading it away nets you something for nothing. Dragon Totem Barbarian gains Blind Fighting in exchange, which seems to me to be a worthy trade. Now you can fire at opponents from the cover of night with far more accuracy than most would believe possible. Even better, if you keep going Barbarian, you also pick up Frightful Presence at level 5 instead of Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge. Since, again, you're on a horse, you have no need to worry about flanking.

So a typical 'bruiser' Mongol is a Fighter2/Barbarian5 with a Composite Longbow, and the aforementioned feats, plus precise shot (going to improved precise shot later on), and can rain feathery death upon his opponents. He probably also has Track, since Barbarians get Survival anyways.

The next version is more of a skirmisher, he is a little bit more trail-wise, and a little more stealthy. He's a Scout/Ranger Swift Hunter build, using Ranger spells to be able to apply his Skirmish damage at stupidly long ranges.

The problem here, however, is that there's a rules technicality that might raise it's ugly head. The argument has been made that riding a mount does not trigger Skirmish damage with movement. Personally, I think it is hogwash, but it is a rules point you will need to clarify before this build can be viable.

If that is clarified, however, you get a lot of attacks, with bonus damage on every shot, that is applied to virtually anything you shoot at, depending on your Favored Enemies list.

Now then, the problem with being a mounted archer is that many terrain types flat out negate you. You can't go on dungeon crawls or caving with a mount. Being in the woods means negating a large part of your maneuverability and trees provide too much cover to make archery viable. The Mongols were the terror of the steppes and plains... but off of those terrains, they were handily defeated. Know that this is a crippling limitation which will severely nerf or mitigate your ability to be a functioning mongol, not because of a weakness in the D&D mechanics, but because of a weakness inherent in the mounted archer archetype.

[Hazzardevil]

I would like a build, please.
Using the Drow Judicater (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=1371), I just want to use it in some way useful, I was thinking of using it for croud control with the capstone, but anything works.



The problem here, however, is that there's a rules technicality that might raise it's ugly head. The argument has been made that riding a mount does not trigger Skirmish damage with movement. Personally, I think it is hogwash, but it is a rules point you will need to clarify before this build can be viable.


It says you can't do it in the errata, but it was a stupid errata anyway.

[The Rabbler]

I would like a build, please.
Using the Drow Judicater (http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=1371), I just want to use it in some way useful, I was thinking of using it for croud control with the capstone, but anything works.


Why did that link to a roosterteeth video?

[NineThePuma]

Now then, the problem with being a mounted archer is that many terrain types flat out negate you. You can't go on dungeon crawls or caving with a mount. Being in the woods means negating a large part of your maneuverability and trees provide too much cover to make archery viable. The Mongols were the terror of the steppes and plains... but off of those terrains, they were handily defeated. Know that this is a crippling limitation which will severely nerf or mitigate your ability to be a functioning mongol, not because of a weakness in the D&D mechanics, but because of a weakness inherent in the mounted archer archetype.

Or, if you're willing to sacrifice some damage, play a Halfing and ride a deinonychus. It's a relatively difficult task to raise one, on par with raising a heavy warhorse. However, your coolness points for doing it are rather high, and it's a Pouncing Charger too, with 4 attacks. Only CR 3 though, so...

[planswalker]

Here's a build I contrived to create one time, wanna see what you can do with it:

an archer who uses charisma for just about everything possible: hp, attack, ac, saves, and skills. He is a kind and compassionate soul, but gets particularly riled up by cruelty. He has a code of ethics, but it's an odd one by most people's standards, and although he never breaks his own code of honor, it's something so convoluted that no one else really understands it. His focus in combat is on maximizing numbers of attacks without sacrificing accuracy significantly. He's a foot archer that uses a longbow or other bow that's big. Personality-wise, he's quite the charming, friendly fellow who is not above using kind deceptions to get you to do what is for the best of everyone else.

in essence: a white knight archer who is SAD to charisma.

[Hazzardevil]

Right, I feel rather stupid now.
I meant this Drow Judicater. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003c)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Here's a build I contrived to create one time, wanna see what you can do with it:

an archer who uses charisma for just about everything possible: hp, attack, ac, saves, and skills. He is a kind and compassionate soul, but gets particularly riled up by cruelty. He has a code of ethics, but it's an odd one by most people's standards, and although he never breaks his own code of honor, it's something so convoluted that no one else really understands it. His focus in combat is on maximizing numbers of attacks without sacrificing accuracy significantly. He's a foot archer that uses a longbow or other bow that's big. Personality-wise, he's quite the charming, friendly fellow who is not above using kind deceptions to get you to do what is for the best of everyone else.

in essence: a white knight archer who is SAD to charisma.

SAD Charisma... archer? Okay, let's see what we can do with that.

So, riled up by cruelty, has a code of ethics but it's an odd one... sounds like a Paladin of Freedom to me. That would be Paladin4, actually, for Charisma bonus to all saves, and for turn undead attempts to fuel Travel Devotion.

Next, is attack rolls. Fortunately, there's a feat for that. Charm the Arrow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a) requires Fey type, but replaces Dex with Charisma for attacks with bows and crossbows.

Now, for what profit is it to a man, to gain many attacks, only to have them all suck? For the solution to this, I suggest Bard. First off, it fits the 'charismatic guy' perfectly, all 'face' skills, Bardic Music (oratory) + Facination + Suggestion (as bardic music) makes him quite the manipulative individual... for their own sake, of course. And then there's Inspire Courage and it's friend, Dragonfire Inspiration. Now you've got damage per shot.

So we go Bard7. Why? That's needed for a 3rd level spell. And which spell do we take, you ask? Simple... Haste. Since it's your only 3rd level spell, it's pathetically easy to meat the requirements for Swiftblade.

Slippers of Battledancing also net you CHA to attack and damage.

When you hit 4th level spells (since Swiftblade advances casting), you pick up Siren's Grace, which nets you a bonus on Charisma, and a Deflection bonus to AC based on Charisma. If you have a Dancing Shield, you can use the feat Divine Shield to dump Turn Attempts into it for more bonuses to AC.

Now then, swiftblade doesn't require you use melee attacks, and it's quite a handy little 'gish' class, focusing on mobility. You'll only take 9 levels of it, pre-epic, but that's okay, because the capstone ability is worthless to you, since you don't have higher level spell slots anyways.

So there you have it, my friend. The two mechanics he uses the most are Turn Attempts (the number of which is based on Charisma) and Bardic Music (Also Charisma-based), he gets AC, Saves, Attack, and Damage from Charisma.

Then just take feats like Manyshot and a Splitting Bow and proceed to Curb-Stomp.


Right, I feel rather stupid now.
I meant this Drow Judicater. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003c) Not a valid entry. This is 'take your concept, and make it mechanically viable, to prove that Stormwind Fallacy is just that... a fallacy' thread. The thread you are wanting is 'min/max my class', which is down the hall.

[Hazzardevil]

Heres a request then.

I want to play a charecter like Angel from Angel Beats, go about it anyway you like, although I don't want the whole making it's own abilitys, I want more using the abilitys seen in the anime.
(No making copys is not want I want, like Angel did.)

[Coidzor]

I'm curious about what you guys would do to get necromantic minions and bardic music on the same character (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10938080), I must admit.

Other than just getting a Nightcaller's Whistle, anyway.

[Hazzardevil]

Levels in Bard and that requiem feat and the undead focused bard prestige from book of rubbish Latin.
To summon the undead? My only guess is add animate dead and stuff to your spell list and use that.

[mootoall]

Prestige Bard and Animate Dread Warrior.

[Axinian]

Basically, I want this (http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k287/fut4d4_s3r4_4n1m3/sAmUrAi%20dEePeR%20kYo/SamuraiDeeperKyo.jpg) guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Eyes_Kyo). I've been trying to build him myself for a while.
Rules: Gestalt, has to be just about fully playable at level 10 (I do want to play him in a game eventually). StandardWBL

I know what you're thinking, "just play a warblade." Indeed, that is the most efficient way to go about representing all his special moves and such.

However, there's a couple things about him I'm having trouble getting pinned down. One is his speed. He's fast. REALLY fast. Though this can probably be achieved through good application of GPs.

The main problem is how people react to him. I want to have his reputation as one of the greatest killers alive to have some mechanical impact. My go-to choice was the Samurai's Mass Stare down ability, but that made the build much less playable on account of one side being entirely Samurai. It also necessitated a level of Ronin on the other side, since he's most certainly chaotic. Essentially spending 11 levels for one ability just feels wrong to me. I do actually want him to be really effective.

Getting Iaijutsu focus on him helps as well. Spellcasting is discouraged but not out of the question.

To summate: Level 10 gestalt Chaotic Evil Samurai who's really fast, and can intimidate most creatures he encounters with his mere presence.

This should be simple, but everything I've come up with feels wrong in some way or another.

What fluff should twist, and what mechanics should I use, to make "Demon Eyes" Kyo?

[mootoall]

Have you checked out the Imperious Command feat from DotU?

[Axinian]

Indeed I have. Another problem I forgot to mention is that he usually ends up being quite MAD, which is annoying. Needing Str, Con, Int, and Cha. It's not so much finding specific instances of what I want, but combining everything together.

[WarKitty]

Ok here's one I've had for a while that I've never been able to make work in 3.5. The requirements are fairly specific due to it being an existing character that was built in a different system. The original character was a charismatic healer for a fertility goddess, focused on disease treatment and handling difficult patients. Tried to make it work as a pure bard, but got tired of playing "I'm a great magical healer but I can't do anything about your disease because I'm out of scrolls and broke."

- Must have access to a full repertoire of healing spells. Full repertoire = status removers and other such spells, not just the cure line. Includes at minimum remove curse, remove disease, restoration, and raise dead. Should not be item-dependent here.

- Must be able to maintain high ranks in the following skills: diplomacy, sense motive, knowledge (religion), knowledge (nobility), bluff.

- Must have access to a small number of charm-type spells (charm person and dominate person are a must). Charisma or charisma-check boosters appreciated. Calm person should also be included. Again, needs to not be item-dependent.

- Must have some form of fast movement or escape usable at least 1/day. This can be an item.

- Must be able to maintain charisma as the primary stat. The original character actually strikes me as a fairly low-wisdom type, although I could flex if I had to. Not too MAD though - the only build I got required me to keep Int, Wis, and Cha all up. I can do two high stats but not three.

[Essence_of_War]

To summate: Level 10 gestalt Chaotic Evil Samurai who's really fast, and can intimidate most creatures he encounters with his mere presence.


Part of the fluff of the Desert Wind school is this feeling of "so fast it sets the air on fire".

You could try something like:
Factotum8/WB2 // Fighter2/OASamurai2/Swordsage6

The left hand side is getting you tons of skill points and Factotum IPs while the right hand side is getting you some feats and more maneuvers. Keep an eye on the Desert Wind boosts that give you fire damage for the "move so fast he sets the air on fire" feeling. The Shadow Hand "teleportation" maneuvers can help you with that feeling also.

If you can convince the DM, he may let you use the Shadow Blade feet with any sort of sword as long as you are also getting Weapon Finesse with it. This would be fantastic so you could focus on Dex, but if not, use your Short Sword as your primary weapon. It might pay to take FoI once so that you can use the Factotum's extra standard action ability twice per encounter.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Heres a request then.

I want to play a charecter like Angel from Angel Beats, go about it anyway you like, although I don't want the whole making it's own abilitys, I want more using the abilitys seen in the anime.
(No making copys is not want I want, like Angel did.)

Never seen it, never heard of it, no clue what you are talking about. However, anime characters rarely are able to be translated easily into D&D, because we use these things called 'rules', which anime characters often ignore in favor of 'cool'.


I'm curious about what you guys would do to get necromantic minions and bardic music on the same character (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10938080), I must admit.

Other than just getting a Nightcaller's Whistle, anyway.

Well, Dread Necro and Bard just seem to go together like peanut butter and jelly. They're both CHA casting classes, so you've got a lot of SAD. Having said that, there's a lot of steep feat investment into this, I don't know how well we can shoehorn everything into the same build.

Most often, A Dread Necro will rebuke/command an undead bard, or pick up Undead Leadership and have the Cohort be the undead bard.

The bardblade you are looking for is Bard4/Warblade2/War Chanter 10. You can squeeze that into an undead cohort pre-epic... just barely. Really, it's the Song of Legion you are wanting the most abuse out of, although DFI and IC both add their own share of fun to the table.

An alternative would be Bard4/Dread Necro 16. Not so sure how this would turn out in actual play, but it seems to be something like what you are asking for. Where your feats are applied will depend on if you want more bardic music or more powerful minions. You won't have Song of Legion, so your best bet will be to have a few already powerful minions to augment still further. The primary problem is a lack of 9th level spells, so it won't be as powerful as a full primary caster, but it should at least be serviceable.

Option 1: DFI Necro

Human Necropolitian Bard4/Dread Necro 16
Feats:
1: Dragontouched, Draconic Heretage (War Dragon, Sonic descriptor)
3: Song of the Heart
6: DFI
9: Corpsecrafter
12: Destructive Retribution
15: Fell Drain
18: Fell Frighten

The goal here is to make sure you have a Slaymate so you can apply Fell Frighten and Fell Drain for only +1 rather than +2.

At Dread Necro 12, you pick up Aura of Terror, which augments the Fear Aura you get from Dread Necro 5, and apply Fell Frighten to it so that it'll make anything Panicked if they fail their saving throw, or Shaken if not.

You've also got a Masterwork Mandolin, Badge of Valor, and Vest of Legends. You've got a +6 IC, which means +6d6 Sonic damage on every minion attack, and +6 on attack and damage. If you can get your GM to approve it, enchant it as a weapon with +1 and Harmonizing, which lets you twist songs easier.

Your minions blow up when they die, doing a good bit of negative energy damage in a radius effect. This also heals your other minions, by the way, and yourself.

Option 2: The Terror

Bard4/Dread Necro 16 again

1: Dragontouched, Southern Magician
3: Song of the Heart
6: Extend Spell
9: Persist Spll
12: DMM: Persist
15: Fell Frighten
18: DFI

Basically, your combo is thus:

DMM Persist Fell Frighten Aura of Terror. Now your aura is always going to Frighten, all day long, requiring no actions on your part Make sure to have a Slaymate to reduce Metamagic costs

Your minions now clean up the panicked opponents. So they do bonus fire damage rather than sonic, but considering the opponents aren't fighting back, this isn't as big a problem.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ok here's one I've had for a while that I've never been able to make work in 3.5. The requirements are fairly specific due to it being an existing character that was built in a different system. The original character was a charismatic healer for a fertility goddess, focused on disease treatment and handling difficult patients. Tried to make it work as a pure bard, but got tired of playing "I'm a great magical healer but I can't do anything about your disease because I'm out of scrolls and broke."

- Must have access to a full repertoire of healing spells. Full repertoire = status removers and other such spells, not just the cure line. Includes at minimum remove curse, remove disease, restoration, and raise dead. Should not be item-dependent here.

- Must be able to maintain high ranks in the following skills: diplomacy, sense motive, knowledge (religion), knowledge (nobility), bluff.

- Must have access to a small number of charm-type spells (charm person and dominate person are a must). Charisma or charisma-check boosters appreciated. Calm person should also be included. Again, needs to not be item-dependent.

- Must have some form of fast movement or escape usable at least 1/day. This can be an item.

- Must be able to maintain charisma as the primary stat. The original character actually strikes me as a fairly low-wisdom type, although I could flex if I had to. Not too MAD though - the only build I got required me to keep Int, Wis, and Cha all up. I can do two high stats but not three.

Well, as far as healing and purification, there's a Domain for that. In Spell Compendium, the Renewal domain gets Charm Person, Lesser Restoration, and Remove Disease. It also gets Reincarnate, rather than Raise Dead, but I don't know if that's what you want or not. The Liberation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#liberationDomain) domain nets Remove Fear, Remove Paralysis, Remove Curse, Freedom of Movement, Break Enchantment, Greater Dispel Magic, Refuge, Mind Blank, and Freedom... all definitely right up your alley. The Healing domain nets you all the healing spells.

The problem, of course, is actually getting said domains in a class with access to them...

Now, we could use a Beguiler chassis for this... it would work fairly well, if feat intensive. Beguilers cast spontaneously from their entire spell list. Arcane Disciple adds those spells to the spell list. Now, wizards and sorcerers are hit pretty hard by the restrictions, but Beguiler bypasses the limitation of only 1/day, by the wording of how they cast. Beguiler has all the charming you'd want. Only it's Int based, not Charisma...

Bards only get up to 6th level spells. I suppose you could go Bard/Sublime Chord with the aforementioned Arcane Disciple feats, however do keep in mind that you'll only be able to use each domain spell 1/day. But hey, that would be Charisma based, and you'd get all the spells you want, even if they are of limited use.

Now, this isn't by-the-book, but there might be another option, if your GM is willing to work with you. There's a variant called Sponaneous Divine (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) which nets you your domain spells as Spells Known, and cast much like a sorcerer. Simply choose the domains as appropriate, and you end up with all the spells you want, as long as you still have spell slots. Normally, however, this does not change your casting stat, which kind of sucks, because you're stuck with Wisdom casting. However, you can point out that most spontaneous-based casters are Charisma based, and ask that your primary casting stat be changed to CHA instead of WIS.

The Dragon Shaman's Touch of Vitality can also do as you want, and it is CON based, but the class largely sucks, and is not suggested.

[WarKitty]

Well, as far as healing and purification, there's a Domain for that. In Spell Compendium, the Renewal domain gets Charm Person, Lesser Restoration, and Remove Disease. It also gets Reincarnate, rather than Raise Dead, but I don't know if that's what you want or not. The Liberation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#liberationDomain) domain nets Remove Fear, Remove Paralysis, Remove Curse, Freedom of Movement, Break Enchantment, Greater Dispel Magic, Refuge, Mind Blank, and Freedom... all definitely right up your alley. The Healing domain nets you all the healing spells.

The problem, of course, is actually getting said domains in a class with access to them...

Now, we could use a Beguiler chassis for this... it would work fairly well, if feat intensive. Beguilers cast spontaneously from their entire spell list. Arcane Disciple adds those spells to the spell list. Now, wizards and sorcerers are hit pretty hard by the restrictions, but Beguiler bypasses the limitation of only 1/day, by the wording of how they cast. Beguiler has all the charming you'd want. Only it's Int based, not Charisma...

Bards only get up to 6th level spells. I suppose you could go Bard/Sublime Chord with the aforementioned Arcane Disciple feats, however do keep in mind that you'll only be able to use each domain spell 1/day. But hey, that would be Charisma based, and you'd get all the spells you want, even if they are of limited use.

Now, this isn't by-the-book, but there might be another option, if your GM is willing to work with you. There's a variant called Sponaneous Divine (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) which nets you your domain spells as Spells Known, and cast much like a sorcerer. Simply choose the domains as appropriate, and you end up with all the spells you want, as long as you still have spell slots. Normally, however, this does not change your casting stat, which kind of sucks, because you're stuck with Wisdom casting. However, you can point out that most spontaneous-based casters are Charisma based, and ask that your primary casting stat be changed to CHA instead of WIS.

The Dragon Shaman's Touch of Vitality can also do as you want, and it is CON based, but the class largely sucks, and is not suggested.

Cool thanks! Int based actually isn't that much of an issue - I think the original character was Cha>Int>Dex>Wis>Con>Str, so swapping the top two isn't that big a deal.

[Zonugal]

Basically, I want this (http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k287/fut4d4_s3r4_4n1m3/sAmUrAi%20dEePeR%20kYo/SamuraiDeeperKyo.jpg) guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Eyes_Kyo). I've been trying to build him myself for a while.
Rules: Gestalt, has to be just about fully playable at level 10 (I do want to play him in a game eventually). StandardWBL

I know what you're thinking, "just play a warblade." Indeed, that is the most efficient way to go about representing all his special moves and such.

However, there's a couple things about him I'm having trouble getting pinned down. One is his speed. He's fast. REALLY fast. Though this can probably be achieved through good application of GPs.

The main problem is how people react to him. I want to have his reputation as one of the greatest killers alive to have some mechanical impact. My go-to choice was the Samurai's Mass Stare down ability, but that made the build much less playable on account of one side being entirely Samurai. It also necessitated a level of Ronin on the other side, since he's most certainly chaotic. Essentially spending 11 levels for one ability just feels wrong to me. I do actually want him to be really effective.

Getting Iaijutsu focus on him helps as well. Spellcasting is discouraged but not out of the question.

To summate: Level 10 gestalt Chaotic Evil Samurai who's really fast, and can intimidate most creatures he encounters with his mere presence.

This should be simple, but everything I've come up with feels wrong in some way or another.

What fluff should twist, and what mechanics should I use, to make "Demon Eyes" Kyo?

Hmm well how about something like this?

Human Paragon 1/Wu Jen 2/Human Paragon 2/Wu Jen 1/Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) 4
Barbarian (Spirit Lion & Wolf totem, Whirling Frenzy as well) 2/Swordsage (Unarmed variant) 4/Warblade 2/Swordsage 2

With gestalt it is a shame not to sneak in some casting (and from the description of that character's attacks a lot of them seem like spells), but this doesn't mean you have to be trapped in the guise of a spell caster. Use buffs from Wu Jen to amplify your attacks and pump that haste effect. The whole build is about speed, super-killer speed.

What this character brings to the table
BaB: +9
CL: 8 (so fourth level spells)
IL: Swordsage 8 (or 13 if you count the other side of the gestalt) & Warblade 6 (or 11 if you count the other side of the gestalt)
Pounce, Improved Trip and Whirling Frenzy from Barbarian, all of which add to the theme of speed
1/day re-roll of Initiative & 1 Spell Secret (permanently adjust a third-level spell with either Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Still Spell or Silent Spell. For this character that means Haste will either have a double duration, be activated without sound or activated without any movement) from Wu Jen which add to the theme of speed.
Swift Surge (+1 to AC & Reflexes, +10 speed bonus & +1d6 on all attacks as long as you move 10 ft.), Blurred Alacrity (40% miss chance while under the effect of Haste), Sudden Casting (cast Haste as a free action, as if Quickening it) and Arcane Reflexes (intelligence to initiative) from Swiftblade make you a very quick person.

So all together let us look at a standard model of what this type of guy might look like pseudo-buffed in battle (using a stat array of 32 points: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 13)

6 rounds; He casts Haste, Shield, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance and Cat's Grace than activates Whirling Frenzy.
Attack melee (after moving 10 ft.) +13/+13/+13/+8 (1d10+7+1d6; bastard sword)
Armor Class +26 (10 +0 armor +5 dexterity +2 wisdom +5 dodge bonus +4 shield spell) with a 40% miss chance.
Speed 70 ft. and Initiative +7

His tactic should be pretty clear. He sees an enemy on the field and pounces them thus attacking four times for somewhere of around 60-70 points of damage before setting his sights on another foe.

He can only use Whirling Frenzy once per day but for his other encounters he used his maneuvers/stances, spring attacks & elusive target (the tactical feat that you will pick up).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Cool thanks! Int based actually isn't that much of an issue - I think the original character was Cha>Int>Dex>Wis>Con>Str, so swapping the top two isn't that big a deal.

So then definately Beguiler chassis. Although another way is to Rainbow Servant + Beguiler. Capstone from RS nets you ALL Cleric spells, which includes everything you ever wanted, and then some, all cast spontaneously. Check with your DM if you use Text (full casting) or Table (lose 4 caster levels).

But if you don't want to wait that long, then Arcane Disciple works well for Beguilers.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I've got a challenge for you.

Make Roronoa Zoro. :smallamused:

[Shadow Lord]

I've got a challenge: Make a MetaBlaster Sorcerer. A Sorcerer who can deliver the pain! Like a Mail Man!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I think people are misunderstanding the purpose of this thread, so I will reiterate:

The thread is to prove the Stormwind Fallacy by being able to take a character concept and make it a viable mechanical build.

It is not for:

a) building anime characters

b) building mechanical concepts you are already familiar with

c) make your GM throw books at you by min/maxing your character in a given game.

[Shadow Lord]

I think people are misunderstanding the purpose of this thread, so I will reiterate:

The thread is to prove the Stormwind Fallacy by being able to take a character concept and make it a viable mechanical build.

It is not for:

a) building anime characters

b) building mechanical concepts you are already familiar with

c) make your GM throw books at you by min/maxing your character in a given game.

I'm not familiar with how to build good Blasters. In fact, I daresay that I'm bad at it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm not familiar with how to build good Blasters. In fact, I daresay that I'm bad at it.

Go Warlock/binder/HFW. You can't help but be good at blasting.

[NineThePuma]

I'm building a character as a final boss for a Campaign, with the possibility of a Bonus Boss if they beat it down well enough.

A big part of this character is that he is a Fallen Paladin, at least thematically. His love interest was killed in the service of good, at the hand of 'Good' as best it can be considered.

As I currently have him stated, he's a Paladin 10/Blackguard 10, but I'm curious to see how you would build this concept.

(He's an elf, and he's favoring a one handed longsword style.)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm building a character as a final boss for a Campaign, with the possibility of a Bonus Boss if they beat it down well enough.

A big part of this character is that he is a Fallen Paladin, at least thematically. His love interest was killed in the service of good, at the hand of 'Good' as best it can be considered.

As I currently have him stated, he's a Paladin 10/Blackguard 10, but I'm curious to see how you would build this concept.

(He's an elf, and he's favoring a one handed longsword style.)

Actually? Crusader. Oh, I might go Blackguard 3 for bonus to all saves and penalty to opponent's saves, but really the majority of 'paladin' flavor can easily be duplicated with Crusader. You can trade in Paladin levels for Blackguard levels anyways, so you can simply say that he took that option.

With Rebuke/Command attempts that are nearly worthless themselves, it behooves you to find a use for them. I suggest Profane Lifeleech from Libris Mortis. Deal 1d6 damage to every character within 30', and heal that amount of damage for 2 rebuke attempts. Particularly good if he's got victims chained up on the walls to draw life from. Oh, and there's no save either.

Personally, I'd just go with Crusader and be done with it. Make sure to pick up Aura of Evil, and a few other evil-themed maneuvers from the Devoted Spirit style. Alternately, if he's Lawful Evil (many fallen paladins are), Aura of Perfect Order is a great way to declare something like a saving throw to be rolled up an 11. It's like taking 10, plus one, on any one roll per round.

Another alternative is to use the Paladin of Slaughter or Paladin of Tyranny classes... he 'fell' to a much nastier side of the alignment pool. Paladin of Tyranny gives you CHA to all saves taking the 3rd level gives him the same aura a blackguard has.

[NineThePuma]

Nifty. =3 Thanks, Oh Lost One. I'll go poke the brains over in Homebrew and see what sorta stuff I can swap Blackguard Casting for in terms of Initiating.

EDIT: I was unclear, but he was actually originally Chaotic Good (Pally of FREEDOM!). Tyranny doesn't work cause I like having chaotic bents.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Nifty. =3 Thanks, Oh Lost One. I'll go poke the brains over in Homebrew and see what sorta stuff I can swap Blackguard Casting for in terms of Initiating.

EDIT: I was unclear, but he was actually originally Chaotic Good (Pally of FREEDOM!). Tyranny doesn't work cause I like having chaotic bents.

Then pally of Slaughter... same concept, only the aura isn't worth bothering with.

Aura of Chaos is one of the things that makes the d2 crusader... but I doubt we're going to get quite that cheesy, right?

[NineThePuma]

That much cheese? On a final boss? No thanks. I'll stick with my only slightly cheesy stuff, thanks. ;D

[ShneekeyTheLost]

That much cheese? On a final boss? No thanks. I'll stick with my only slightly cheesy stuff, thanks. ;D

Profane Lifeleech is still fun to combo if you pick up Paladin of Slaughter 4. Hurting the whole party and healing himself in the same action is loads of fun.

[ImperatorK]

Shneeky, could you build a character with the fluff that he is the conscience of multiple people sealed in one, crystalline body? To be exact, I want you to stat up this char. (the one on the right; warning, NSFW) (http://maelora69.deviantart.com/art/Girls-of-Psionic-Power-I-213669957?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Amaelora69&qo=8). It doesn't have to be psionic.

[opticalshadow]

there are a couple of flavor characters i wouldnt mind having an more depth look into, im not much of a splatbook guy so im bad at some of this.

both of these are mages who i like to be indirect with.

the first one would be a cahracter who doesnt directly attack, but instead control things. bringing to life torches or chairs, chains rope or ice, and commanding it as if it were a creature, effectivly causeing the world around the enemy to turn against them. id prefer it if he didnt summon in his minions, or "cast" them, but rather directly miniuplate the world around him, he is never without allies, he would wear items in which he could use, or carry them with him (such as the aforementioned rope)

the second mage is more of an interrogator then a murder. he prefers to subdue his victems alive, using magic that can bring the mightest foe to his knees, and probe his mind, only ever slaying the creature when it posses nothing he doesnt already know. he would interrogate with magic, and with words. his powers would likly be illusion to create anything he needs to either subdue or contain. if at all possible, he would be a skill torturer, allowing him to more barbarically obtain his info, even if he possses the power/magic to simply know what his enemy knows, he will still go to any length to have him actualy speak it.

if at all possible i would like these characters closer to core, but use whatever you need. i dont espect these guys to be high tiered players, i would like them as viable options that wont drag a party down, but if it can perform on the level of a fighter in usefulness in combat i would be more then thrilled. both are concepts i have wanted to play for a while. but liek i said, i dont have huge splat book knowladge, so im unsure on alot of this.

thanks in advance.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

there are a couple of flavor characters i wouldnt mind having an more depth look into, im not much of a splatbook guy so im bad at some of this.

both of these are mages who i like to be indirect with.

the first one would be a cahracter who doesnt directly attack, but instead control things. bringing to life torches or chairs, chains rope or ice, and commanding it as if it were a creature, effectivly causeing the world around the enemy to turn against them. id prefer it if he didnt summon in his minions, or "cast" them, but rather directly miniuplate the world around him, he is never without allies, he would wear items in which he could use, or carry them with him (such as the aforementioned rope) I think that can be done. Sounds like a combination of Telekenesis and Animate Object.

Animate Rope is a 1st level spell. Telekinesis is 5th, and Animate Object is 6th. However, Animate Object is a Bard spell, and Telekinesis is a Wiz/Sorc spell. So we go Bard/Sublime Chord, and you can pick them both up.


the second mage is more of an interrogator then a murder. he prefers to subdue his victems alive, using magic that can bring the mightest foe to his knees, and probe his mind, only ever slaying the creature when it posses nothing he doesnt already know. he would interrogate with magic, and with words. his powers would likly be illusion to create anything he needs to either subdue or contain. if at all possible, he would be a skill torturer, allowing him to more barbarically obtain his info, even if he possses the power/magic to simply know what his enemy knows, he will still go to any length to have him actualy speak it. Well, as far as torturing, Profession (torturer) would probably fit the bill. As for the rest, you're probably looking at Illusion and Enchantment (which has a lot of spells designed to subdue opponents).

With this in mind, your best class is likely Beguiler. It's in the PhB II. It's plenty enough to do everything you want to do.

[planswalker]

Can you make me a character which is intelligent food? Such as a sandwich or a loaf of bread?

[ragingrage]

Can you make me a character which is intelligent food? Such as a sandwich or a loaf of bread?

Wasn't there some Psionic trick that allowed the Psionic Sandwich?

[Essence_of_War]

You can do that.

The Psionic Sandwich (http://thestormwindfallacy.multiply.com/journal/item/76)


Race: Elan
Build: Telepath 20
Feats: Any, must have EK(Astral Seed) and skill focus (craft [basket weaving])

1. Acquire a loaf of bread (2cp)
2. Turn the bread into a sandwich (craft DC 5) (probably 2 minutes)
3. Polymorph the sandwich (preferably ham with mustard, pepperoni, salami, and jalapenos) into a fuzzy little bunny. (NPC casting 1200 gp) (1 standard action)
4. Cast astral seed (10 minutes)
5. Ritualistically slay yourself with favored method of suicide. Be sure to place your storage crystal next to the sandwich turned bunny. (I prefer to be killed with a dagger to the heart... :shifty: ) (Approximately 5 rounds)
6. Use mind-switch (the 6th level power) to switch with the rabbit, while in your storage crystal. (1 std action)
7. Metamorph into a troll and smash your storage crystal (now containing the mind of a sandwich). (2 standard actions)
8. Use psychic chirurgery to remove your negative level gotten from committing suicide. (10 minutes)
9. Dismiss your metamorphosis and manifest dispel psionics on yourself (to dispel the polymorph). (2 standard actions)

Congratulations, your ascention to the sublime state of a sandwich took:
23 minutes 6 seconds and costed you 1200.02 gold pieces.

[Kaeso]

I have a request for a concept I've always found difficult to create in DnD: a vampire (and/or demon) hunter. I've always considered going at it with a ranger/cloistered cleric but it doesn't end up really being what you'd espect from a vampire hunter, it's only counter-undead tactic is turn undead, which isn't all that spectacular IMHO.

[Shadow Lord]

Go Warlock/binder/HFW. You can't help but be good at blasting.

I requested a Meta Sorc Blaster :smallwink:

[mootoall]

I requested a Meta Sorc Blaster :smallwink:

... The Mailman is already a Metamagic Sorcerer Blaster ...

[Shadow Lord]

... The Mailman is already a Metamagic Sorcerer Blaster ...

I don't know how to build said Mailman....

[ragingrage]

I don't know how to build said Mailman....

Google is Fun (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I requested a Meta Sorc Blaster :smallwink:

Then maybe next time you should read the OP before requesting a build...

[opticalshadow]

With this in mind, your best class is likely Beguiler. It's in the PhB II. It's plenty enough to do everything you want to do.

quick question on this. i was looking at some things, what are your opinions on a psion for this? they seem to have powers designed for interrogation (down to reading and rewriting a subjects mind) and a few tricks to subdue people without attacking?

or is the beguiler just a better over all scope deal?

Edit: also, do you have a source on torture details in 3.5? or maybe a book similure to it as dungeonscape was to lair creation. if i build this cahracter i will need some sources to give a dm, as well as knowing the rules myself.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

quick question on this. i was looking at some things, what are your opinions on a psion for this? they seem to have powers designed for interrogation (down to reading and rewriting a subjects mind) and a few tricks to subdue people without attacking?

or is the beguiler just a better over all scope deal?

Edit: also, do you have a source on torture details in 3.5? or maybe a book similure to it as dungeonscape was to lair creation. if i build this cahracter i will need some sources to give a dm, as well as knowing the rules myself.

Well, you said 'mage', so I automatically looked at arcane sources. A Telepath could very easily pluck information from someone's mind, and make them think they are in complete agony. However, a Beguiler has the skill list you are looking for... Intimidate, Bluff, Gather Information, Use Rope...

But Telepaths have some very fun abilities for torture. A simple one is Inflict Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/inflictPain.htm), which seems tailor made for the character.

Either way is viable, depending on which mechanic you prefer to use.

[opticalshadow]

Well, you said 'mage', so I automatically looked at arcane sources. A Telepath could very easily pluck information from someone's mind, and make them think they are in complete agony. However, a Beguiler has the skill list you are looking for... Intimidate, Bluff, Gather Information, Use Rope...

But Telepaths have some very fun abilities for torture. A simple one is Inflict Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/inflictPain.htm), which seems tailor made for the character.

Either way is viable, depending on which mechanic you prefer to use.

so over all you would suggest a beguiler given its skill list? sorry to drag this out, but before i go plannign this whole ordeal out, id appreciate the input of someone who seems mor ein the know then me

[Zonugal]

Beguiler is very versatile in the field and has the skills to reach a subject, but for the purposes of a true interrogator few are going to beat a Telepath.

[Bob]

requesting: Darth Vader

Edit: my apologies, apparently I can only count to seven.

[Tvtyrant]

requesting: Darth Vader

Psywarrior seems the best fit for this, or a force specialist sorc.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

requesting: Darth Vader

Re-read OP... not a valid request.

In the build challenge, however, he was a Tainted Sorcerer with armor that mitigated the effects, with a brilliant energy sword.

[Zonugal]

requesting: Darth Vader

Ardent/Warblade/Slayer typically does trick well enough. Slap on almost all of the warforged grafts and you're golden.

[NineThePuma]

That's a bit outside of what this thread is for. Please read the OP.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

OK Shneeky, I've got another one. This one is pretty much a famous weakness in the 3.5 system, so I'm genuinely curious to see what you come up with, and I wouldn't consider this a failed effort if it doesn't work. I know a few ways to kinda fake it, but . . . anyway, on with the show.

There's a fairly major video game (and other media, but that's not the point) archetype that just doesn't work too well in 3.5. Megaman. Kirby. The Blue Mage. Ditto. I think you've guessed where I'm going by now. "Hey, that looks neat. Lemme try." What can we come up with for a character who copies and/or steals the tricks and abilities of their foes? The more tricks we can directly copy, the better. Combat maneuvers (Sublime Way and PHB-style), magic (the Spellthief's a good start, but can we do better?), mundane class features, whatever. I can do that. You just gotta show me how . . . oh look, you just did. I don't care if you have to kill them first, if you can just watch them and do it, if you have to land some kind of attack on them, whatever. Just show me that you've got what he does. Bonus points if you do it without Illithid Savant.

No level specified, but as always, the sooner the better.

(Disclaimer: I'm well aware of why, as a design choice, it wouldn't make much sense to put easy access to these abilities in a game like 3.5. That's not the point. How well can we fake it anyway?)

This was brought up some time ago, and my answer wasn't really all that good. However, I do have a better solution now...

Totemist.

Seriously, 99% of all of his totem soulmelds are about taking various aspects of various powerful monsters and using them for himself.

[TroubleBrewing]

This was brought up some time ago, and my answer wasn't really all that good. However, I do have a better solution now...

Totemist.

Seriously, 99% of all of his totem soulmelds are about taking various aspects of various powerful monsters and using them for himself.

Actually, Totemist, Binder, or Factotum would work. Those three classes can change their entire skillset after 24 hours.

Maybe some Chameleon, too? Potentially with Changeling for race, just for extra shifty shenanigans?

[dextercorvia]

How about a pair of dark characters that grow more powerful by killing their enemies(beyond XP). A ritual magician that sacrifices virgins (or whatever) to power spells, and a fierce tribesman, that subsumes his enemies' power by eating their fresh hearts.

[Amphetryon]

I made this request a while back in another thread, but I was not specific enough. I'd like to see a character that needs to 1. use no weapons, and relies on 2. no summons or 3. spells with saving throws, who is an effective party member in combat 4. outside of his ability to buff others.

[Kilgorath]

IGNORE this, revised request below.

I've got one for you!

I see the character from a RP perspective as being a seer. She uses her interpreted dreams to help predict future events, along with her magical talent.

Excited to see what you can throw together with that.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I've got one for you!

I want a build based on Dream reality and spells. Ever since reading about it in Heroes of Horror I've been intrigued.

As for guidelines; I want a full caster, dream domain or new dream spells are a must, access to divination spells, and little to no melee requirements.

I see the character from a RP perspective as being a seer. She uses her interpreted dreams to help predict future events, along with her magical talent.

Excited to see what you can throw together with that.

This isn't how—ah forget it. What you want is a specific class or system, what this thread is about is simply the concept, not forcing him to build an effective character using only certain mechanical options.

[Kilgorath]

This isn't how—ah forget it. What you want is a specific class or system, what this thread is about is simply the concept, not forcing him to build an effective character using only certain mechanical options.

Eh.. Ok?

After re-reading his guidelines and others posts I don't see that I've done anything differently. I listed a few requirements and left the rest to imagination. Unless I'm told outright by the OP, my request remains the same.

Want a simpler explanation of the character? An oneiromancer, I don't care what source. That's what I'd like to see.

[dextercorvia]

I see the character from a RP perspective as being a seer. She uses her interpreted dreams to help predict future events, along with her magical talent.

Excited to see what you can throw together with that.

This is Fluff, ie. the part that is what the OP will try to achieve.


I want a build based on Dream reality and spells. Ever since reading about it in Heroes of Horror I've been intrigued.

As for guidelines; I want a full caster, dream domain or new dream spells are a must, access to divination spells, and little to no melee requirements.


This is crunch. This is how you want to achieve the above fluff, but it might not be the most effective way.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I made this request a while back in another thread, but I was not specific enough. I'd like to see a character that needs to 1. use no weapons, and relies on 2. no summons or 3. spells with saving throws, who is an effective party member in combat 4. outside of his ability to buff others.

Hell, I do that one all the time.

ClericZilla - buffing edition. Cloistered Spontaneous Cleric6/Sovereign Speaker/Contemplative1/Divine Oracle1/Heirophant1

With DMM Chain Spell + Divine Reach to chain buff everyone for the same level of spell, chain heals at the same level, and having every meaningful buff in the game.

This hinges on the fact that Spontaneous cleric automatically gain every spell on their domain list as a Spell Known. Sovereign Speaker gives a bonus domain every level. Pick up the stragglers with your other spells known.

You never need to pick up a single offensive spell. Yet your party will be nearly invincible.

[Kilgorath]

This is Fluff, ie. the part that is what the OP will try to achieve.



This is crunch. This is how you want to achieve the above fluff, but it might not be the most effective way.

I see, thank you.

Well, I want a character who is able to manipulate and move through dreams. She would glean information from dreams, and plague others in theirs. She seeks knowledge and finds it best attainable through dreams, and devotes her time to it.

Her ultimate goal is to become a dream, and a nightmare for her foes.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I see, thank you.

Well, I want a character who is able to manipulate and move through dreams. She would glean information from dreams, and plague others in theirs. She seeks knowledge and finds it best attainable through dreams, and devotes her time to it.

Her ultimate goal is to become a dream, and a nightmare for her foes.

Well, there's not a whole lot of dream-based stuff in D&D, but let's see what we can do with this perfectly valid concept...

Now, there is a Nightmare Spinner PrC, it focuses mostly on fear effects. To make this mechanically viable, you'd also need Dread Witch to bypass immunities.

The following schools will be your primary focus:

Divination: Kind of a given, considering your character's concept.

Illusion: Imposing the dream-world on the still-awake to create waking dreams.

Necromancy: This is where all the fear effects are, although you can ignore the rest of it.

Enchantment: I am the music maker. I am the dreamer of dreams. Come, dream-beings, dance to my tune.

As for the chassis, that depends. While oracles are traditionally divine in nature, an arcane caster is necessary for both of those classes. A specialist wizard either a Diviner or Illusionist would work quite well, and even benefit from an early dip in Master Specialist. Beguiler also works quite well, once we give him some divination.

So let's look at some concept builds and see which ones you like the best:

1) Mr "Do what I want and get away with it".
Beguiler/Divine Oracle

Because of the way Beguilers get spells, once you get the Oracle domain, you've got all the divination you need. And really, the archetype scrying and divination effects don't kick in until then anyways, so you really aren't missing anything. He doesn't have any fear effects, but has powerful battlefield control with his illusions to confound opponents with their waking dreams. You also eventually end up immune to surprise, Evasion that works in armor, bonuses on scrying spells, rolling twice and taking the better result when using divination spells such as Augery and Divination (both domain spells). Pick up Arcane Disciple (Knowledge domain), if you really want to get more divination. The Dream domain, however, is irrelevant, because you already get everything out of the Dream domain, either by being a Beguiler, or through the Oracle domain.

2) The Living Nightmare:

Diviner3 (Ban evocation)/Master Specialist3/Nightmare Spinner 5/Dread Witch 4

Fell Frighten is going to be a prerequsite metamagic feat. Offset cost with one of the feats that reduces cost of a specific metamagic feat by 1 (to a minimum of 1). Basically, just about everything you are throwing around includes a fear effect. Dread Witch busts fear immunities. So you throw fear, more fear, and then still more fear. You're still a Divination-specialist wizard, though, and can still delve into the dream-plane on a whim.

3) Cassandra
Spontaneous Cloistered Cleric5/Divine Oracle10/Contemplative1/Dread Witch4

Free Knowledge domain, free Oracle domain, free bonus (Dream) domain. Plus your choice of two other domains. Good choices include: Trickery, Madness, Mind, Darkness, Fate, and Illusion. In fact, if you and your GM are willing to discuss things, you might end up trading out levels of Divine Oracle for levels of Sovereign Speaker, which nets bonus domains every level, but loses 2 caster levels over 10.

[Amphetryon]

Hell, I do that one all the time.

ClericZilla - buffing edition. Cloistered Spontaneous Cleric6/Sovereign Speaker/Contemplative1/Divine Oracle1/Heirophant1

With DMM Chain Spell + Divine Reach to chain buff everyone for the same level of spell, chain heals at the same level, and having every meaningful buff in the game.

This hinges on the fact that Spontaneous cleric automatically gain every spell on their domain list as a Spell Known. Sovereign Speaker gives a bonus domain every level. Pick up the stragglers with your other spells known.

You never need to pick up a single offensive spell. Yet your party will be nearly invincible.This ignores the 4th criteria: effectiveness in combat OUTSIDE his ability to buff others. Put another way, he does not buff allies as his shtick, does not roll attacks, and does not cast spells that are summons or that allow saves.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

This ignores the 4th criteria: effectiveness in combat OUTSIDE his ability to buff others. Put another way, he does not buff allies as his shtick, does not roll attacks, and does not cast spells that are summons or that allow saves.

There are domains with no-save-just-lose spells, but I don't think that's what you are asking for...

So, how do you expect him to be effective in combat? Generally, the archetypes are: Damage output (which you don't want), Debuff (which you don't want), Save or Lose (which you don't want), and Battlefield Control (which you don't want).

There's domains with various Wall spells. That's at least some battlefield control without saves or attack rolls. Is that the kind of thing you are looking for?

In other words, you've told me what his shtick isn't. You haven't told me what his shtick is. A surplus of negative information does not always equate positive information.

Rather than telling me what you don't want him to do, please tell me what you *DO* want him to do

[mootoall]

Well, I mean, no attack roll AND no save is hard, but BFC and damage without attack rolls is doable with Dragon Fire Adept.

[Urpriest]

I made this request a while back in another thread, but I was not specific enough. I'd like to see a character that needs to 1. use no weapons, and relies on 2. no summons or 3. spells with saving throws, who is an effective party member in combat 4. outside of his ability to buff others.

I don't see how a natural attack build fails to meet any of those criteria. Or hey, any unarmed build ever. Or a ray caster/blastificer.

[Amphetryon]

I don't see how a natural attack build fails to meet any of those criteria. Or hey, any unarmed build ever. Or a ray caster/blastificer.

Please see the clarification; I'm looking for a character that contributes as more than a buffbot without involving the dice.

[TroubleBrewing]

Please see the clarification; I'm looking for a character that contributes as more than a buffbot without involving the dice.

You just don't want to roll dice? :smallconfused:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Please see the clarification; I'm looking for a character that contributes as more than a buffbot without involving the dice.

Do you mind having abilities that have a function even when saves are made? For example: Grease. It has a saving throw/balance check, but even if you make it, it's still got a debuff effect (denied dex bonus, unless target has 5+ ranks in Balance). I think I can manage to pull this off, but it's going to take some doing...

EDIT: here you go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208620)

[NineThePuma]

(denied dex bonus, unless target has 5+ ranks in Grease).

Wait, what? :smallwink:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Why do you have to have five ranks in balance? All you need is +5, not 5 ranks, to avoid falling down.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Why do you have to have five ranks in balance? All you need is +5, not 5 ranks, to avoid falling down.

It isn't a matter of being prone, it's a matter of needing to make a balance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/balance.htm) check, which has this nifty phrase to it:


Being Attacked while Balancing

You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren’t considered flat-footed while balancing. If you take damage while balancing, you must make another Balance check against the same DC to remain standing.


Wait, what? :smallwink:

Thanks, I've fixed that.

[Lord Ruby34]

So I've got a concept that I've been having trouble with, and I'm not sure how well it really works in D&D. An unarmed, although not necessarily unarmored, combatant that flit's gracefully about the battlefield dodging blows and supporting the party by being exactly where she's needed.

Double points if the race is Catfolk. Triple if it can dump strength.

[mootoall]

So I've got a concept that I've been having trouble with, and I'm not sure how well it really works in D&D. An unarmed, although not necessarily unarmored, combatant that flit's gracefully about the battlefield dodging blows and supporting the party by being exactly where she's needed.

Double points if the race is Catfolk. Triple if it can dump strength.

Huh. Sounds just like an unarmed swordsage. Child of Shadows stance, for concealment while moving, two stats as dodge bonuses to AC, completely Dex reliant with the right feats, and LA doesn't hurt it nearly as much as other characters.

[Lord Ruby34]

Yeah the only problem is getting my AC high enough not to get hit. I guess I can use half my WBL on it, but I prefer not to do that. It just sorta hurts when I have to spend half my money on AC boosters.

[mootoall]

Yeah the only problem is getting my AC high enough not to get hit. I guess I can use half my WBL on it, but I prefer not to do that. It just sorta hurts when I have to spend half my money on AC boosters.

As an Unarmed Swordsage, you can still wear light armor as well, so long as you grab proficiency again, perhaps from a Scout or Ranger dip. It just doesn't apply to your Touch AC, is all. And besides, the concealment effect is far better than most AC.

[Zaq]

Yeah the only problem is getting my AC high enough not to get hit. I guess I can use half my WBL on it, but I prefer not to do that. It just sorta hurts when I have to spend half my money on AC boosters.

Pretty much everyone in 3.5 has to either do that or find another way to not get hit, at least once you're past the 5-7 level range. AC scales horribly, which is one reason why many people ignore it altogether and just go for miss chance.

[Lord Ruby34]

I know, maybe I'm just cheap, but I was hoping that there was some class that actually got AC. I did look at Unarmed Swordsage but I was hoping to, well, not spend my money on AC. And I sorta wanted to get my AC up to only on a 20, and maybe not then, level. I don't know I just don't like how badly AC scales in this game and that's probably because I don't like paying for it.

[mootoall]

Well, if you look at OA, there's the Shiba Protector PrC, which gets you Wis to AC again.

[Zaq]

I know, maybe I'm just cheap, but I was hoping that there was some class that actually got AC. I did look at Unarmed Swordsage but I was hoping to, well, not spend my money on AC. And I sorta wanted to get my AC up to only on a 20, and maybe not then, level. I don't know I just don't like how badly AC scales in this game and that's probably because I don't like paying for it.

If you want a class that gets AC for kinda-free, you pretty much need a full caster. Popping a Greater Luminous Armor every morning will get you something reasonably respectable for a while. A Good Incarnate has a bunch of semi-scaling ways to increase their AC, but doing so comes with an opportunity cost (every point of essentia in your Incarnate Avatar, or your Crystal Helm, or that Wormtail Belt you poached, or whatever, represents a point of essentia that's not doing anything else . . . and aside from your Incarnum Radiance, all of your class-based AC boosters take up precious meld slots).

Of course, at lowish levels, a Scout can actually get really decent AC. One of my backup E6 characters is a Scout who will probably have the highest AC in the party, if he doesn't change much by the time he joins the group (if ever) . . . pump DEX, play a Neraph for +2 NA and free shield proficiency (not on every class, but on a Scout, sure), keep moving to keep your (Improved) Skirmish bonus triggering, perhaps eventually Combat Expertise and Deadly Defense (since that extra d6 doesn't suck at such a low level) . . . would it work outside of E6? Eh, not for long, at least not without diving into the same piece-by-piece AC boosters that most classes need, but really, it just depends on what your level is.

Swordsage AC isn't bad. Two stats and armor proficiency? Eh, better than most classes get, aside from tin cans (who start out strong but don't get that much better on their own). Toss in Pearl of Black Doubt if you really want. Use Combat Expertise, if you're into that sort of thing. Desert Wind Dodge or Expeditious Dodge, maybe. Overall, supercharging AC tends to be a losing battle, but you can do it. You just have to accept that it's going to cost you, one way or another . . . or just play a full caster who really won't notice that missing slot or two spent Altering Self into a troglodyte (or dwarf ancestor, if you can swing it) and conjuring Greater Luminous Armor.

One way or another, you gotta pay.

[Lord Ruby34]

Well, if you look at OA, there's the Shiba Protector PrC, which gets you Wis to AC again.

I can't seem to find it, what page is it on?

And thanks for the help, I guess I'll have to shell out the gold though as I don't see this character as a caster. Ah, my poor WBL I'll miss you so.

[dextercorvia]

So I've got a concept that I've been having trouble with, and I'm not sure how well it really works in D&D. An unarmed, although not necessarily unarmored, combatant that flit's gracefully about the battlefield dodging blows and supporting the party by being exactly where she's needed.

Double points if the race is Catfolk. Triple if it can dump strength.

BattleDancer gets +Cha to AC, Arcane Duelist gets it again, and there is a Paladin sub level in Champions of Valor that gets it a few times per day. Swiftblade gets Cha to Init, and extra Standard actions. The trick is to use Trapsmith to get into Swiftblade. I don't have a full build, but everything is pretty much there.

BattleDancer1/PaladinofFreedom4/Trapsmith1/Swiftblade9/ArcaneDualist2.

Pick up a handy Divine feat for your turn attempts.

[dragonsamurai77]

My concept:

A character who specializes in death over time, needing only a single initial attack to sap all life out of an opponent.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yeah the only problem is getting my AC high enough not to get hit. I guess I can use half my WBL on it, but I prefer not to do that. It just sorta hurts when I have to spend half my money on AC boosters.

Well, that's not too difficult, actually...

Swordsage gets Wis bonus to AC. Mithral Chain Shirt only costs about 1k, cheap at the price.

As far as dumping Str... that's easy. Weapon Finesse + Shadow Blade = Dex for all combat-related purposes.

Furthermore...

If you go into Setting Sun, you can completely negate opponent attacks without needing AC. Here's how it works:

Baffling Defense: Sense Motive check vs opponents's attack roll to negate attack. Since a skill can be tweaked far easier than an attack roll, you're bound to make this.

Shifting Defense. If an opponent swings and misses, you move a 5' step. So now you are out of reach of your opponent, who just lost the rest of his attack progression.

Scorpion Parry is also really handy for not getting hit, and it makes him hit his buddy... or even himself!

So, an AC of 20 is pathetically easy to get hold of. Mithral Chain Shirt is 4, with a max dex bonus of +6. Even with a regular Mithral Chain Shirt, with a halfway decent Wis and Dex scores, you could hit AC 20 by level 1.


My concept:

A character who specializes in death over time, needing only a single initial attack to sap all life out of an opponent.

That's a mechanic rather than a character concept, and one that is poorly done in D&D, due to several factors. Your problem is that you have few DoT spells, and no Snares to keep your opponent from ripping you a new one. Also, caster mobs tend to rip you a new one anyways. And most NPCs tend to have some kind of ranged attack.

In other words, this isn't an MMO. You don't *want* your opponents to last long enough to do something to you. Kiting is not effective, because NPC's are not as stupid as MoB's.

[dragonsamurai77]

That's a mechanic rather than a character concept, and one that is poorly done in D&D, due to several factors. Your problem is that you have few DoT spells, and no Snares to keep your opponent from ripping you a new one. Also, caster mobs tend to rip you a new one anyways. And most NPCs tend to have some kind of ranged attack.

In other words, this isn't an MMO. You don't *want* your opponents to last long enough to do something to you. Kiting is not effective, because NPC's are not as stupid as MoB's.

Ah, OK then, just wondering if there was any effective way do that. Question, though. I really do get the purpose of this thread, but it seems I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the difference between a mechanic and a character concept. Granted, all I really mentioned was what the character does, but that doesn't seem very different from Lord Ruby34's "combatant that flit's gracefully about the battlefield dodging blows and supporting the party by being exactly where she's needed". I apologize if I'm missing something obvious, but I really can't see the difference.

[excruciarch]

After roleplaying a Malkavian I totally want to play a crazy evil caster specializing in manipulating and breaking others minds. That's pretty much an optimized wizard (spells from charm to weird) but you sirs surely can do better.
I desire to crush their minds, find sick joy in their fears and screams, make them kill their friends, be an evil puppeteer that brings them death. =]

[Zonugal]

After roleplaying a Malkavian I totally want to play a crazy evil caster specializing in manipulating and breaking others minds. That's pretty much an optimized wizard (spells from charm to weird) but you sirs surely can do better.
I desire to crush their minds, find sick joy in their fears and screams, make them kill their friends, be an evil puppeteer that brings them death. =]

Hmm...

So it looks as if you are wanting to focus on enchantment so what about a simplistic build like a Beguiler 6/MindBender 2/Nightmare Spinner 5? If you use the adaptation for Nightmare Spinner you can have it focused towards enchantment rather than illusion (and thus grant you the ability to charm those who would typically be immune to it).

But another possible angle that might be a little unorthodox is a Telepath 5/Thrallherd 10. While it isn't a wizard, or even a caster, it brings a lot to the table in terms of manipulating & crushing people's minds. I'd go as far to say that a Telepath/Thrallherd is probably the highest you'll attain for the 'evil puppeteer' trope.

[tyckspoon]

That's a mechanic rather than a character concept, and one that is poorly done in D&D, due to several factors. Your problem is that you have few DoT spells, and no Snares to keep your opponent from ripping you a new one. Also, caster mobs tend to rip you a new one anyways. And most NPCs tend to have some kind of ranged attack.

In other words, this isn't an MMO. You don't *want* your opponents to last long enough to do something to you. Kiting is not effective, because NPC's are not as stupid as MoB's.

Hmm. I doubt it will turn out to be really effective, but there are a number of mechanics that could be combined to make this at least not entirely pointless. Poison is the obvious starting place. There's the Arterial Strike ambush feat, which lets you (very slowly) bleed out a victim. Power Word: Pain and Creeping Cold are notable damage-over-time spells.. although they aren't especially high damage against targets that matter, they do have the useful trait of working with a Spell Storing weapon. Ideally Extended.

Hmm. So.. I'm thinking Rogue/Wizard/(Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster) build. Acquire a Spellstoring, Toxic, Fleshgrinding weapon, and charge it with Extended Power Word: Pain (Creeping Cold would be better, but it only appears on the Druid spell list, which makes it kind of a pain to get at.) Take Arterial Strike to cause a bleed, and Venemous Strike to improve your poison (1d6 Sneak Attack traded for +2 poison DC.) Toxic makes the poison on the weapon last for 2 strikes instead of 1, Fleshgrinding lets the weapon stick in your victim for up to 5 rounds hitting automatically. So you find the guy you want to kill, you stab him, and you get-

Weapon damage, at least 1d6 Sneak Attack, bleeding out for 1 hp/round until he can get healed, 2 doses of poison, and at least (1d4x2) rounds of 1d6 damage/round. Ideally, put multiple poisons on that sword/dagger/whatever, just to make it stick. So. Stab the guy, leave, come back in 5 rounds and with any luck he's dead. If not, recover your weapon and wait another 5 rounds for the secondary saves on those poisons to kick in.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

After roleplaying a Malkavian I totally want to play a crazy evil caster specializing in manipulating and breaking others minds. That's pretty much an optimized wizard (spells from charm to weird) but you sirs surely can do better.
I desire to crush their minds, find sick joy in their fears and screams, make them kill their friends, be an evil puppeteer that brings them death. =]

As was mentioned, Beguiler is a really good way to do this.

Mindbender 1 nets you Telepathy 100' for Mindsight qualification.

Now, the problem with Beguiler is that it really doesn't have any Fear effects, which is kind of silly, when you think about it. So we need a way to give you fear effects in order to qualify for Nightmare Spinner and, more importantly, Dread Witch (to bypass immunities).

Now then, Cause Fear is a 1st level spell, and Scare is a 2nd. Both are needed for entry into Dread Witch. Now, the Death domain has Cause Fear, but the rest of the spells really aren't what you are looking for, and it doesn't have Scare. In fact, no domains have Scare, that I can find, which means we can't use the easy cop-out of Arcane Disciple...

Now then, Extra Spell (from Complete Arcane) has something of an unlovely reputation, due to a lack of restriction in the description. Most people tend to claim that it can only be used to gain a spell from your spell list, which is worthless to a Beguiler, even though it isn't explicitly stated, to prevent UberCheese.

Having said that, there's nothing by RAW that says you can't, so you can pick up Scare at level 6.

However, Extra Spell can only add a spell one level lower than the highest you can cast. So, because Beguilers don't get 2nd level spells until level 4, you can't use Extra Spell at 3rd. So, to get both spells, we'll need to pick up Arcane Disciple (Death), at 3rd, and Extra Spell (Scare) at level 6.

Then we can proceed unto Nightmare Spinner and Dread Witch.

Now then, Fell Frighten lets you toss around tons of fear effects, pick up Easy Metamagic for it to reduce cost from +2 to +1.

Or, if you don't want to jump through all those hoops, just use Sorcerer.

[TroubleBrewing]

Or, if you don't want to jump through all those hoops, just use Sorcerer.

This made me laugh. The difference between Tier 3 and Tier 2 classes is the entire paragraph above that quote. :smalltongue:

[Zaq]

Bizarrely, Truenamers get a fair number of DoT effects. All the Reversed Word of Nurturing line (especially Extended), Agitate Metal, Reversed Energy Negation, and Energy Vortex leap to mind.

Now, all of these are varying degrees of suboptimal on top of, y'know, being Truenamer utterances, and as said above, DoT effects in D&D are almost never worth it, but it's a data point.

Also, Power Word: Pain.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The problem with Damage over Time in D&D is that it requires two things to be effecitve:

1) Something which applies damage consistantly without needing additional action on your part

2) A method of restraining the opponent so it can't hurt you.

However, in D&D, if you can restrain your opponent in that manner, it is best to finish him off quickly. Unlike MMO's, it is quite possible, even fairly easy, to one-shot opponents. In such cases, why bother with damage over time? There are also very few ways of applying a single effect to produce damage over an extended period of time.

The UPS Man build I'm working on almost works... it applies a negative level every level, no save, no SR. But it requires immobilizing the opponent to do it in the manner you are wanting to. If he is immobilized, why not just slit his throat?

[Zonugal]

So I have one for you Shneekey that has been crawling around my head.

For a campaign I have wanted to try to emulate the seven deadly sins so upon adapting them into D&D 3.5 the one that has been giving me some trouble is Pride. I'm thinking he'll be the main bad-guy to the core seven (sort of like Captain Ginyu to the Ginyu Squad from DBZ) and act as the big bad villain for the campaign.

So delving into what I feel would emulate Pride well is a charisma monster, a guy who's presence invokes awe & fear (but not any type of raw fear, but the type of fear that comes from looking at pure perfection). I'm imagining him to be super difficult to hit, so he'd be a defensive beast in forms of perfection. But the biggest draw would be his charisma, his ability to shrug off opposition through his dynamic confidence in himself.

With that said I'm thinking of trying to aim him at about level 11 or 12, so Shneekey what do you think?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So I have one for you Shneekey that has been crawling around my head.

For a campaign I have wanted to try to emulate the seven deadly sins so upon adapting them into D&D 3.5 the one that has been giving me some trouble is Pride. I'm thinking he'll be the main bad-guy to the core seven (sort of like Captain Ginyu to the Ginyu Squad from DBZ) and act as the big bad villain for the campaign.

So delving into what I feel would emulate Pride well is a charisma monster, a guy who's presence invokes awe & fear (but not any type of raw fear, but the type of fear that comes from looking at pure perfection). I'm imagining him to be super difficult to hit, so he'd be a defensive beast in forms of perfection. But the biggest draw would be his charisma, his ability to shrug off opposition through his dynamic confidence in himself.

With that said I'm thinking of trying to aim him at about level 11 or 12, so Shneekey what do you think?

Ahh, vain pride. Outward perfection, to cover an empty husk...

Well, I do believe that is the besetting sin of the Warblade, so let's start there, shall we?

Now then, as far as being a defensive beast, he's got a lot go go with, being that he can pick up maneuvers to cover his weak saves with a Concentration check. However, it doesn't give him a lot to go with for Charisma, now does it? Hmmm...

Hexblade. It's got Charisma bonus to saves, Mettle, and a brief list of spells which he can buff himself with. He also debuffs opponents with the power of his Ego. I can just hear him now...

"Insignificant worm! You aren't worthy of cleaning my boots, much less meeting me in combat."

I can also see a LOT of mileage out of Intimidate + Imperious Command...

"KNEEL before your better, dog!"

Spells will be those who augment his 'Mr No.' combat style, or augment his perfection.

In fact, I can even see him going into Abjurant Champion, to auto-quicken Shield, and auto-extend it as well. Or, I could see him going into Suel Archanamach for more buffs. I could even see him combining SA with AC to produce some nigh-undispellable buffs.

Hmm... what to do, what to do?

Ahh! I know!

Warblade6/Suel Archanamach1/Abjurant Champion5.

Now here's why:

Warblade... it's a wonderful little chassis, isn't it? Got a stance, and some useful abilities. I'd almost say Crusader, for more Charisma goodness, but Warblade gets access to Diamond Mind Concentration Check For Save maneuvers which will help him simply ignore an opponent's attack as being unworthy of the privilege of affecting him.

Actually, as feat-intensive as this build is going to be, make that Fighter2/Warblade4/SA1/AC5

Losing 1 IL is not going to kill you, but two feats will help significantly.

Now then, all his buffs are automatically extended and up to 3rd level spells quickened (thanks to Abjurant Champion), and his Shield spell now gives him a +9 Shield bonus to AC. But the BEST part is the caster level = BAB. Tack on to that Tenacious Spells, which increases the DC for dispelling by 6, and you've got buffs that no one is going to be able to strip.

If you had a couple of extra levels for wiggle-room, I'd suggest Suel Archanamach2, for the Dispelling Strike. Remember, Caster Level = BAB, for any Abjuration spell, thanks to the AC capstone ability. And Greater Dispel Magic *IS* an abjuration effect. So he's got a damn good chance of stripping a PC of his buffs, which is *ALWAYS* a lot of fun to do.

Exemplar 1 just screams Ego to me, you can use it to Take 10 on all of your charisma-based skills, such as Bluff and Intimidate, and you awe people with the power of awesome! If you can manage to fit it in there, that would also work out significantly well.

Now, another option is to take Martial Study (Devoted Spirit) and Martial Stance (Martial Spirit) to heal every time he hits someone. Couple that with Stone Power to negate the first ten damage he takes.

Now then, he's got 3 1st level spells known. If you let Mage Armor gain the bonus from Abjurant Armor, then go with that. That's 9 armor, and he can't top that with the resources at his beck and call, while still casting spells. Shield is a natural, for +9 shield bonus to AC. That's a 28 AC, before we even start getting into other buffs or gear. And it lets him wear his perfectly tailored and horridly expensive clothing into combat without the tedium of armor. His third spell known can be Nerveskitter. Because there is no such thing as too much bonus to initiative. Failing that, True Strike works wonders at making a shot as perfect as his face.

Honestly, I wish I could get Mettle in this build. Hexblade does that, but does everything else less well. If you had room for a two-level dip in Witch Slayer would do quite nicely. In fact, going all five levels for Momentary Disjunction would be no bad notion if he survives to be a reoccurring villain.

The other option is something like Bard/Crusader with White Raven Song. You still have the awesome Charisma synergy, difficulty to affect him with mere physical damage, Mettle, all three good saves (Bard has high Reflex and Will, Crusader has high Fort and Cha bonus to Will), and possibility of DFI shennanigans.

[Hazzardevil]

So I have one for you Shneekey that has been crawling around my head.

For a campaign I have wanted to try to emulate the seven deadly sins so upon adapting them into D&D 3.5 the one that has been giving me some trouble is Pride. I'm thinking he'll be the main bad-guy to the core seven (sort of like Captain Ginyu to the Ginyu Squad from DBZ) and act as the big bad villain for the campaign.

So delving into what I feel would emulate Pride well is a charisma monster, a guy who's presence invokes awe & fear (but not any type of raw fear, but the type of fear that comes from looking at pure perfection). I'm imagining him to be super difficult to hit, so he'd be a defensive beast in forms of perfection. But the biggest draw would be his charisma, his ability to shrug off opposition through his dynamic confidence in himself.

With that said I'm thinking of trying to aim him at about level 11 or 12, so Shneekey what do you think?

Well his 6th level feat is taken already, since frightful presence is a feat available at 6th level. I can actually see about 6 levels in samurai fitting in here for staredown, and also a few levels in Zentarim Fighter and Exempler would help.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well his 6th level feat is taken already, since frightful presence is a feat available at 6th level. I can actually see about 6 levels in samurai fitting in here for staredown, and also a few levels in Zentarim Fighter and Exempler would help.

It would require 9 levels of Zentarim Fighter, and it's only a 12 level character. Although I could see Pal2 (of alignment of choice), Zent Fighter 9/Exemplar 1.

But without Mass Staredown, Staredown is of exceedingly limited use.

[Hazzardevil]

It would require 9 levels of Zentarim Fighter, and it's only a 12 level character. Although I could see Pal2 (of alignment of choice), Zent Fighter 9/Exemplar 1.

But without Mass Staredown, Staredown is of exceedingly limited use.

I was actually thinking of that samurai ability that gives a +4 bonus on intimidate checks, a +4 bonus is quite big.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I was actually thinking of that samurai ability that gives a +4 bonus on intimidate checks, a +4 bonus is quite big.

Not when you're already able to Take 10 on it, and the opponent has such a poor check to resist it...

You're already getting a boosted Charisma bonus, plus +4 from Exemplar, and the target has a HD check + Wisdom Bonus... and a Crystal Mask of Dread gives another +10...

[magusoftheCore]

Not sure if it was mentioned yet but how about a "nightcrawler"-esque build that TWFs with Large weapons. Bonus points for huge, even more if we use a small race

[Cerlis]

So I've got a concept that I've been having trouble with, and I'm not sure how well it really works in D&D. An unarmed, although not necessarily unarmored, combatant that flit's gracefully about the battlefield dodging blows and supporting the party by being exactly where she's needed.

Double points if the race is Catfolk. Triple if it can dump strength.

unless i missed something on the skill, shouldnt any build with a tumble modifier of 15 do this? Tumbling is pretty much moving in such an agile and quick way that you dont leave yourself open to attack. It just uses a different mechanic than attack rolls to determine if you get hit.

One thing you CAN do, is if you are allowed to use 3.5 version of Oriental adventures material, there is a feat in there (with lots of prerequisits, mind you, which you could get easily with 2 lvls of monk or fighter) that allows you to attempt to disarm any attack that would otherwise hit you as an attack of opportunity. Essentially get your avoidance up and anything that you cant avoid with your leg agility you avoid with your weapon finesse


Hmm. I doubt it will turn out to be really effective, but there are a number of mechanics that could be combined to make this at least not entirely pointless. Poison is the obvious starting place. There's the Arterial Strike ambush feat, which lets you (very slowly) bleed out a victim. Power Word: Pain and Creeping Cold are notable damage-over-time spells.. although they aren't especially high damage against targets that matter, they do have the useful trait of working with a Spell Storing weapon. Ideally Extended.

Hmm. So.. I'm thinking Rogue/Wizard/(Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster) build. Acquire a Spellstoring, Toxic, Fleshgrinding weapon, and charge it with Extended Power Word: Pain (Creeping Cold would be better, but it only appears on the Druid spell list, which makes it kind of a pain to get at.) Take Arterial Strike to cause a bleed, and Venemous Strike to improve your poison (1d6 Sneak Attack traded for +2 poison DC.) Toxic makes the poison on the weapon last for 2 strikes instead of 1, Fleshgrinding lets the weapon stick in your victim for up to 5 rounds hitting automatically. So you find the guy you want to kill, you stab him, and you get-

Weapon damage, at least 1d6 Sneak Attack, bleeding out for 1 hp/round until he can get healed, 2 doses of poison, and at least (1d4x2) rounds of 1d6 damage/round. Ideally, put multiple poisons on that sword/dagger/whatever, just to make it stick. So. Stab the guy, leave, come back in 5 rounds and with any luck he's dead. If not, recover your weapon and wait another 5 rounds for the secondary saves on those poisons to kick in.

i'd like to point out Dragon Samurai, since this guy mentioned a gish and that involves spellcasting, that there is a spell in Complete arcane which pretty much it engulfs the enemy in blackfire (which easily spreads to anyone within 5 feet) which instead of doing damage does like...1d4 constitution damage per round, basically they slowly die from negative energy sucking away their life force (at con 0 you die) from your one attack. Boost your necromancy DC and it will be hard for them to save against it. I support gish because i think a gish build would allow you to make many strong attacks both physical and magical that incapacitate and slowly kill your opponent.

Things you want: Constitution damage, concealment or some ability to hide after attacking. Stunning strike abilities and others that allow you to incapacitate your opponent. Possibly away to apply multiple effects at once. a jade phoenix mage i believe could deliver this deadly spell at the same time as doing that hardcore stone dragon m

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not sure if it was mentioned yet but how about a "nightcrawler"-esque build that TWFs with Large weapons. Bonus points for huge, even more if we use a small race


8) NO ANIME OR POP CULTURE BUILD REQUESTS. No I will not build Ranma/Bleach/Ruruni/Vader/etc... this is to make actual characters, not to rip off other people's.

Besides, it's been done. Repeatedly. Do a google search.

[Urpriest]

A character that transforms into a swarm of insects to fight.

[mootoall]

Oh, there's definitely a feat for Druids to Wild Shape into Swarms ... And if not, the Swarmshifter template for undead could work with Necropolitans, I think.

[RedWarrior0]

I'd like a dwarf who, through the use of various things, is a pain in the rear end to kill, especially via HP damage. Probably a Crusader or Warblade, perhaps with some other dips for other bonuses. I'd prefer using Dwarf-only prestige classes, such as Dwarven Defender, Deepwarden (RoS), and Deepstone Sentinel (ToB), but if they don't it's fine. What I'm going for is huge AC and a massive pile of HP, plus being very thematic for a dwarf.

I know I got an answer for this (well, the unmodified version of this), but I guess the answer wasn't completely what I wanted, due to the "thematic for a dwarf" part. Barbarian and Fist of the Forest don't feel quite right. Sorry if I seem to be a little nit-picky.

[mootoall]

"Don't feel quite right" is the entire point of this thread. We (we being whoever gave you your answer) represented, mechanically, what you wanted. Fluffing it is up to you.

[Urpriest]

Oh, there's definitely a feat for Druids to Wild Shape into Swarms ... And if not, the Swarmshifter template for undead could work with Necropolitans, I think.

Haven't seen the former (if you find one, do let me know), and the latter is LA --.

[Doomboy911]

Alright I've got a request I'm have a bit of a goofball character a bard who focuses on not getting hit and distracting the crap out of the enemy with illusions ( they'd hit the player but in reality he's over there and when they hit that it's an illusion as well) that I can do already as a bard but the real issue is when they find me I'm looking for a build where the character can quickly get a hit or two and thus just dodge and attack. I'm not that great at builds so any help would be nice.

[mootoall]

Haven't seen the former (if you find one, do let me know), and the latter is LA --. Hmm, can't find that. Doesn't Savage Species have a Master of Flies PrC that does something like that?

[Aergoth]

It does!

So, the ideal here is a Druid (regardless of race), with wildshape, the feat "quick change" (also from savage species), five ranks in escape artist and 8 in knowledge nature (giving us a minimum level of five) and a non-good alignment, and then Master of Flies. For added fun, include the Vermin Lord PrC from the Book of Vile Darkness. Vermin swams EVERYWHERE!

[Urpriest]

Hmm, can't find that. Doesn't Savage Species have a Master of Flies PrC that does something like that?

Something like it. But it would require an enormous amount of adaptation to work in 3.5, since it used the 3.0 swarm rules, which were inconsistent and scattered. Plus, I had the impression it wasn't particularly powerful. The point of this thread is to show that any fluff idea has an optimized analog, not merely that anything can be represented. The latter isn't enough to support Stormwind's point, after all.

[Aergoth]

Problem solved! Swarmform Vampire, Variant from Libris Mortis (page 170), exchanges the ability to change into assorted forms for a swarm of bats or a swarm of rats at +0 CR (so presumably +0 LA over the usual vampire template).

[dextercorvia]

How about a pair of dark characters that grow more powerful by killing their enemies(beyond XP). A ritual magician that sacrifices virgins (or whatever) to power spells, and a fierce tribesman, that subsumes his enemies' power by eating their fresh hearts.

Just bumping this up to the front burner.

[Zaq]

Just bumping this up to the front burner.

I feel like Necrocarnate is a good start to that, but we can probably do better. There's also the sacrifice rules in BoVD.

[Acanous]

The Tribesman sounds like a Sorceror/Barbarian/Rage Mage that uses the sacrificial options in Vile Darkness. Possibly add Craft: Graft and applicable feat to allow him to literally take peices of his enemies and graft them to himself. (He sacrifices people for the XP component to craft grafts to himself)
I only suggest Sorceror/Barbarian instead of Wiz/Barbarian for the bonus to Intimidate, and Charisma is much easier to get to hit/damage/saves than int, making you less MAD.

[Qwertystop]

Someone as close to being invisible and intangible as possible (for as long as he/she/it wants), while having abilities of some kind that could be used to make it seem as though whoever it tries to help simply is very lucky, or can alternately manifest as more overtly magical* effects. If possible, also add in maximum mobility.

*actual magic not required

[Zaq]

Someone as close to being invisible and intangible as possible (for as long as he/she/it wants), while having abilities of some kind that could be used to make it seem as though whoever it tries to help simply is very lucky, or can alternately manifest as more overtly magical* effects. If possible, also add in maximum mobility.

*actual magic not required

So . . . Psion Uncarnate? Comes online a little late, of course.

Also, Wind-Guided Arrows is a fun "help from an unseen hand" trick, but not terribly compatible with Psion Uncarnate.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A character that transforms into a swarm of insects to fight.

Warlock gets a Dark invocation that does this...


Someone as close to being invisible and intangible as possible (for as long as he/she/it wants), while having abilities of some kind that could be used to make it seem as though whoever it tries to help simply is very lucky, or can alternately manifest as more overtly magical* effects. If possible, also add in maximum mobility.

*actual magic not required

Hide + HiPS + Darkstalker. Invisibility is optional. Etherealness works for intangible, which is able to be purchased with money. Blink Ring does good as well, for not always being 'there'.

Warlock + Darkness invocation + Devil's Sight + Feat from DotUd which lets you HiPS = good times. That only needs a two-level dip in Warlock, though, so most of your build can be Rogue or Beguiler.

[Garwain]

Ok guys, I got a request as well. My BBEG kills it's victims from the inside in a slow and painfull way or fast and well... I guess also painfull. Lvl range 10-ish.

Shrinking Bones:
* fast: your skull shrinks so rapidly that your brain is squeezed out
* slow: your bones slowly shrink, making your body unsupported until you die of sloth

Boiling water:
* fast: the water in your body transforms to steam, effectively making your body pop like a balloon
* slow: your body temperature rises untill you start hallucinating from fever and overcook.

Growing plants:
* fast: whatever vegetable you ate, suddenly grows again and pierces its way out.
* slow: whatever plants you ate start to parasitize, sapping away your life.

reanimated animals:
* fast: whatever meat or other part of a creature you ate, is resurrected inside you (totally alien inspired).
* slow: you slowly start to transform into the creature you ate (totally inspired by the Fly)

Bonus points if you can find other funny (ahum) ways to kill from the inside.

[mootoall]

For some reason that whole bit screams "Psionics" to me. However, the slow killing is ... well, it's a lot more difficult. Really, any of the fast ones can be represented by any SoD, if you want to fluff it that way.

[Partysan]

I'd like to see a traditionally "rough" warrior who combines unarmed and armed combat in old knightly manner, adding bodychecks and throws to armed strikes, being able to knock opponents away and strike and generally standing solid.
The character should be human (or at least humanoid and medium sized) and not use size enhancements, be able to knock an opponent away, throw him to the ground, attack unarmed and armed in combination and execute grab-strike combinations (that is, crossgrabbing an opponents arm and attack the created opening with the other, possibly even pulling the opponent into the attack but in any case precluding him from blocking it, pulling the opponent towards him off balance and then knocking him away again, and doing most of this as counterattacks.
Stylistically I would place the unarmed part between the knightly arts and cinematic Bajiquan (one place to get easy examples of that is watching Akira Yuki in the newer Virtua Fighter games, he has nice bodychecks and throws that have this solid feeling), the armed part in the direction of the German Long Sword.
I know there is a few things you can use and refluff for this, but I would like to know which ones you would suggest to use for this concept and how to piece them together.

(hmm, actually, a baji-pigua master would as well be interesting to try to build...)

[Urpriest]

Warlock gets a Dark invocation that does this...


So in order to play this character concept I have to play a high level character who only deals 4d6 a round and can't do anything else for a whole day (since Dark Discorporation can't be dismissed because of how it limits your actions)? I thought the point of this thread was proving that you could support any character concept while still being effective.

[Aergoth]

Partysan, like so many others before you, your answer is and should always be: Tome of Battle!

Ideally, it sounds like you want a Swordsage, specialized in Setting Sun and Stone Dragon. The down side of this is that the favoured weapons don't include longsword (swortsword and greatsword are in there) but both allow for unarmed strikes, so it's a win/win as far as punching people in the face.

Maneuvers and stances to consider include:

Mighty Throw (Set1) Grab and throw a foe up to 10 feet.
Counter Charge (Set1) Ruins chargers day, and kicks them in another direction like Ye Olde Knightly pinball flipper.
Charging Minotaur (Stone1) Bull Rush damages and ignores AoO.
Stonefoot Stance (Stone1) +2 Bonus on Strength Checks, +2 AC against larger foes.
Clever Positioning (Set2) Swaps places with the guy you just punched/slashed
Mountain Hammer (StoneX) Deals +Xd6 damage, overcomes DR and Hardness. Get all the Mountain Hammers. All of them. Magical trickery and armour will not stop your knightly muscle!
Feigned Opening (Set3) Immediate action provokes and attack, and then punches a guy in the face.
Giant Killing Style (Set 3) Stance +2 on attack, +4 on damage against larger foes.
Bonecrusher (Stone 3) +4d6 Damage +10 to confirm crits.

And so on. Setting Sun will cover your unarmed needs, Stone Dragon is made for the proverbial Immovable Object style of play.
Feats include at least one Blade Meditation and Adaptive Style.
These give you bonuses for the favoured weapons, skills and maneuvers of a specific martial discipline (again Unarmed Strike), and the ability to change your maneuvers mid-fight as a full-round action.
You may also want Evasive Reflexes, to take a five foot step in place of an AoO, or Superior Unarmed Strike (monklike unarmed damage progression)

[Xiander]

I have been pondering a way to build this character for a while, and simply cannot come up with an effective build that does not hamper itself by trying to do to much at once.

The concept is an agile and mobile combatant who is capable in close combat using a dagger and/or unarmed attacks. On top of this the character must have access to magic that allows her to Control and communicate with animals and manipulate plants and elemental forces (wind, water, earth and fire). Bonus points if she has the ability to sense danger and mystic forces.
(I would prefer if her magic was limited to these specific things, but it is acceptable to have some extra tricks in that bag)

[dextercorvia]

So in order to play this character concept I have to play a high level character who only deals 4d6 a round and can't do anything else for a whole day (since Dark Discorporation can't be dismissed because of how it limits your actions)? I thought the point of this thread was proving that you could support any character concept while still being effective.

Since Swarm is just a subtype, is there any reason why this can't just be achieved by the various Polymorph spells?

[Aergoth]

Xiander! Your answer *also* comes courtesy of ToB. The character you're looking for is a dashing mixture of (you guessed it!) Swordsage and Druid (using the Elemental Companion ACF from Complete Mage). This stacks fairly well with the con and wisdom stats that druids favour, since the swordsage gets Wisdom as a boost to AC a little like a monk.

You also want to use either Setting Sun or Stone Dragon Maneuvers such as the following:
Mighty Throw (Set1) Grab and throw a foe up to 10 feet.
Counter Charge (Set1) Ruins chargers day, and kicks them in another direction like a bad egg
Charging Minotaur (Stone1) Bull Rush damages and ignores AoO.
Stonefoot Stance (Stone1) +2 Bonus on Strength Checks, +2 AC against larger foes.
Clever Positioning (Set2) Swaps places with the guy you just punched/slashed
Mountain Hammer (StoneX) Deals +Xd6 damage, overcomes DR and Hardness. Get all the Mountain Hammers. All of them. Magical trickery and armour will not stop you!
Feigned Opening (Set3) Immediate action provokes and attack, and then punches a guy in the face.
Giant Killing Style (Set 3) Stance +2 on attack, +4 on damage against larger foes.
Bonecrusher (Stone 3) +4d6 Damage +10 to confirm crits.

Also consider at least one desert wind maneuver, and pick up the feat Desert Wind Dodge, and the diamond mind's Concentration in place of Save counters.

Similar options to this are Swordsage/Spirit Shaman (Complete divine)
Swordsage/Shugena (CDiv), with a specialization in air and the Order of the All-Seeing Eye. This would bar you from a few self-buffs so picking up the right martial maneuvers would be key.

Regardless of which path you choose, if you take more than four levels in a non-casting class, be sure to pick up Practiced Spellcaster, from Complete Divine, which will raise you CL by 4 as long as that doesn't raise it above your HD. Rapid Spell (complete divine again) might help with that being quick and agile.

[Partysan]

Partysan, like so many others before you, your answer is and should always be: Tome of Battle!

Ideally, it sounds like you want a Swordsage, specialized in Setting Sun and Stone Dragon. The down side of this is that the favoured weapons don't include longsword (swortsword and greatsword are in there) but both allow for unarmed strikes, so it's a win/win as far as punching people in the face.
I love ToB anyway, but somehow it doesn't sit right with me to do this concept with medium BAB. Can one somehow get Setting Sun on a Warblade? I love me some BAB and Iron Heart.
Nitpick: German Long Sword is essentially a Bastard Sword wielded in two hands.


Maneuvers and stances to consider include:

Mighty Throw (Set1) Grab and throw a foe up to 10 feet.
Counter Charge (Set1) Ruins chargers day, and kicks them in another direction like Ye Olde Knightly pinball flipper.
Charging Minotaur (Stone1) Bull Rush damages and ignores AoO.
Stonefoot Stance (Stone1) +2 Bonus on Strength Checks, +2 AC against larger foes.
Clever Positioning (Set2) Swaps places with the guy you just punched/slashed
Mountain Hammer (StoneX) Deals +Xd6 damage, overcomes DR and Hardness. Get all the Mountain Hammers. All of them. Magical trickery and armour will not stop your knightly muscle!
Feigned Opening (Set3) Immediate action provokes and attack, and then punches a guy in the face.
Giant Killing Style (Set 3) Stance +2 on attack, +4 on damage against larger foes.
Bonecrusher (Stone 3) +4d6 Damage +10 to confirm crits.

And so on. Setting Sun will cover your unarmed needs, Stone Dragon is made for the proverbial Immovable Object style of play.
Feats include at least one Blade Meditation and Adaptive Style.
These give you bonuses for the favoured weapons, skills and maneuvers of a specific martial discipline (again Unarmed Strike), and the ability to change your maneuvers mid-fight as a full-round action.
You may also want Evasive Reflexes, to take a five foot step in place of an AoO, or Superior Unarmed Strike (monklike unarmed damage progression)
For counterattacks I guess Robilar's might be in order. Can one somehow get strikes on AoOs or on trip-followups?
Maybe a Warblade using Unarmed Swordsage for the stance delay could work out.

Well, lets see what ShneekeyTheLost says.

[Urpriest]

Since Swarm is just a subtype, is there any reason why this can't just be achieved by the various Polymorph spells?

I've seen it argued that since swarms are actually multiple creatures behaving as one this doesn't work. That said, there doesn't seem to be anything explicit against it.

[Doomboy911]

Alright new build for a more complicated character. I'm looking for something with the survival ability of a Frenzied bezerker, a decent sword something large that does damage and enough strength to run through a wall without losing momentum. Also something to give him a good resistance to magic would be nice.

[dextercorvia]

I've seen it argued that since swarms are actually multiple creatures behaving as one this doesn't work. That said, there doesn't seem to be anything explicit against it.

That's what I was thinking:


For game purposes a swarm is defined as a single creature with a space of 10 feet.... A swarm has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armor Class. It makes saving throws as a single creature.

This seems to indicate that it would work.

Are there any playable Vermin races? We could actually start with Alter Self in that case. Eventually, we could probably be a Swarm riding a Swarm while summoning Swarms. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Expansion would help, since, as we increase in size category, we actually become more swarms -- Breaking action economy FTW.

[Urpriest]

That's what I was thinking:



This seems to indicate that it would work.

Are there any playable Vermin races? We could actually start with Alter Self in that case. Eventually, we could probably be a Swarm riding a Swarm while summoning Swarms. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Expansion would help, since, as we increase in size category, we actually become more swarms -- Breaking action economy FTW.

A swarm's size category is the size category of its component creatures, though, so wouldn't Expansion just make you a swarm of Medium rats or whatever?

As for a playable Vermin race, there's this one nonsentient Fine spider in Monsters of Faerun that got a level adjustment in the 3.5 update for some inexplicable reason. LA +0 too.

[dextercorvia]

A swarm's size category is the size category of its component creatures, though, so wouldn't Expansion just make you a swarm of Medium rats or whatever?

As for a playable Vermin race, there's this one nonsentient Fine spider in Monsters of Faerun that got a level adjustment in the 3.5 update for some inexplicable reason. LA +0 too.

Maybe... I think I was transposing cause and effect there.

Nonsentient is going to make spellcasting somewhat problematic. We may have to wait until level 7 for this to come fully online. Are there swarms in any of the other MM's? I've never payed much attention to them.

Edit: I found a few, mainly in III and IV. Swarms are underwhelming in their attack strength for their CR, so I think we'll need to augment them with spells. Since they autohit, Bladeweave will help.

[Xiander]

Xiander! Your answer *also* comes courtesy of ToB. The character you're looking for is a dashing mixture of (you guessed it!) Swordsage and Druid (using the Elemental Companion ACF from Complete Mage). This stacks fairly well with the con and wisdom stats that druids favour, since the swordsage gets Wisdom as a boost to AC a little like a monk.

You also want to use either Setting Sun or Stone Dragon Maneuvers such as the following:
Mighty Throw (Set1) Grab and throw a foe up to 10 feet.
Counter Charge (Set1) Ruins chargers day, and kicks them in another direction like a bad egg
Charging Minotaur (Stone1) Bull Rush damages and ignores AoO.
Stonefoot Stance (Stone1) +2 Bonus on Strength Checks, +2 AC against larger foes.
Clever Positioning (Set2) Swaps places with the guy you just punched/slashed
Mountain Hammer (StoneX) Deals +Xd6 damage, overcomes DR and Hardness. Get all the Mountain Hammers. All of them. Magical trickery and armour will not stop you!
Feigned Opening (Set3) Immediate action provokes and attack, and then punches a guy in the face.
Giant Killing Style (Set 3) Stance +2 on attack, +4 on damage against larger foes.
Bonecrusher (Stone 3) +4d6 Damage +10 to confirm crits.

Also consider at least one desert wind maneuver, and pick up the feat Desert Wind Dodge, and the diamond mind's Concentration in place of Save counters.

Similar options to this are Swordsage/Spirit Shaman (Complete divine)
Swordsage/Shugena (CDiv), with a specialization in air and the Order of the All-Seeing Eye. This would bar you from a few self-buffs so picking up the right martial maneuvers would be key.

Regardless of which path you choose, if you take more than four levels in a non-casting class, be sure to pick up Practiced Spellcaster, from Complete Divine, which will raise you CL by 4 as long as that doesn't raise it above your HD. Rapid Spell (complete divine again) might help with that being quick and agile.

I figured my answer would be something of that nature. I have a followup question: Can i play this build and completely avoid having wild shape?
I know extra abilities are not to be scuffed at, but the basis concept was not a shapeshifter and I feel being able to turn into a wolf seriously alters the flavour of the character.

[Moonlitdreams]

Hello, Shneeky, I have a pair of concepts for you that I have been wondering about.

The first is the liege lord. He is lean and short, with a temper a lot shorter than him, either a human or something that can look close to it. He can fight (with a sword and quick strikes, is how I imagine it), but prefers to give orders to his vassals and/or summons and have them fight for him. He has a particular affinity with the fey, treating them better than any of his other summons and being able to augment either himself and/or them with his presence. He's not bad looking at all, and though this does not necessarily have to be represented by Charisma, he does have a very intimidating presence when he wants to use it.

And then the primary vassal, a man that is much stronger than he looks but tends to carry himself as unassuming until he needs to prove his loyalty. He is freakishly strong, able to pick up and throw such creatures as elephants or dinosaurs, punch through iron walls, and other such things since he was a child. When fighting, he likes to use knives, claws, gauntlets or other such things that he can pull or conjure from anywhere and either use with his full strength or pulling punches as needed.

[Aergoth]

Xiander: Dragon Magic has the "Aspect of the Dragon" ACF, that trades wildshape shapes for assorted draconic add-ons (including a +4 con bonus, wings and other fun stuff) Failing that, there's the Aspect of Nature feats from CDiv and CAdv. They're shapeshifting as well, but you tend to retain a mostly humanoid shape, and gain a specific ability. If homebrew works for you, I think it wouldn't be terribly difficult to turn that feat series into an ACF (mostly because it's quite a lot of feats you don't have to burn). The PHB 2 has an alternate version of the wildshape, called shape shifting, that's *really* simplified and not quite as open to game breaking "bear, riding a bear casting bears" since it explicitly doesn't work with natural spell.

You could fluff Aspect of the Dragon as your character tapping into a draconic heritage, and perhaps use it to explain the fighting style (though, for whatever reason, an unarmed swordsage with stone dragon and setting sun reminds me of Armstrong (and I'm really tempted to write his full name in all caps) from Full Metal Alchemist.)

[Hazzardevil]

Unrelated question.

Am I the only one thinking that if this became a sticky we would get a lot less threads like stat up this obscure anime charecter, or what levels would captain Bob have.

[dextercorvia]

Unrelated question.

Am I the only one thinking that if this became a sticky we would get a lot less threads like stat up this obscure anime charecter, or what levels would captain Bob have.

Check the OP. That isn't the purpose of the thread.

[mootoall]

What *would* be a good idea, however, is a stickied "Simple 3.5 CharOp questions" thread. 'Course, since the Q&A hasn't even been officially "stickied," I doubt that would either ...

[Hawkflight]

This looks interesting. Maybe you can help me out. I'm rather stuck on a character for a 3rd-level campaign. I'm a catgirl (tibbit to be precise), and I want to be able to do some of those fancy moves like you see in the Assassin's Creed games. (Such as break through an enemy's weapon, disarm them and use their own weapon to kill people, cause an enemy to hit another enemy, etc.) I do want to use Ranged Pin. Flurry of Blows would be nice, but I'm not married to it. I think some of these things can be pulled off with Maneuvers (swordsage or warblade, or something else), but I'm just not sure where to go. This is my first time really using things like trip and pin.

[Aergoth]

So, we're looking to play the bastard offspring of Faith and Ezio Auditore di Firenze (I like the full name)

The first point, skill tricks are your friend in this case. This means you're spending skill points to be able to "do awesome stuff", instead of "roll better" Skill tricks may appear in other sources, but mine in this case will be Complete Scoundrel.

First priority then. High Int modifier. Rogue is the best for sheer number of skill points, but if you're going to be pumping your intelligence in any case, Factotum (from Dungeonscape) is usually the way to go. Two less skill points (the difference of a trick) but that's not important right now, since the Factotum also gets *all the skills* all of them. You need at least three levels of factotum for this to work out well.
The tricks you'll probably want (prequisites):
Back on your feet (Tumble 12): Get right back up after being knocked down as an immediate action without provoking AoO (if you can get this, don't get nimble stand)
Extreme Leap (Jump 5): Jump ten feet (horizontally) and add 10 feet of running afterwards.
Leaping Climb (Jump 5, Climb 5) Add the distance you jumped (vertically) to the distance you climb. In short, you can now jump and climb in the same round.
Nimble Stand (Tumble 8) Get back up from prone (knocked down) without provoking an attack of opportunity.
Walk the Walls (Climb 12, Tumble 5) Run up a wall for one round.
The fact is, almost all of the "movement" tricks, let you do what you're describing in one way or another.

As to the other things: What you're looking at here are special attacks. *Anyone* can try to disarm someone, or sunder (break) their weapon. The key lies in doing it well. You can find the rules for both in the SRD under Combat in the subsection "Special Attacks".


As you mentioned, there's a few techniques from the Tome of Battle that will let you do just that. Lets examine them shall we?

Disarming Strike: This technique is what anything that tries to disarm you wish it had. Punch/stab/smack/crush someone. And then, you can try to disarm them if you hit, without any consequences otherwise. It's pretty neat. This is a second level Iron Heart strike, so it's restricted to warblades level 3 and up.

Mountain Hammer: This is a technique that does extra damage, and ignores both damage reduction and hardness. The latter part is important for sundering attempts. The question is whether or not a dungeon master will let you use a martial strike as part of a sunder attempt. In any case, if they do, the ability to bypass hardness means you can effectively sunder any mundane weapon without much trouble. Bypassing DR is just icing on the cake for when you need to hit something *REALLY* hard, and they don't want you to. It's a Stone Dragon maneuver available to third level warblades and up (as well as crusaders and swordsages). The nice part is that there's more versions of this as you go higher up in the Stone Dragon discipline. Usually it's just "moar damage", but that's good.

You can also gain either of these maneuvers with the martial study feat, but that's not generally recommended.

There's a Setting Sun technique or two that might let you parry attacks like that, but they're not warblade maneuvers. So martial study might be your route there.

So, warblade may turn out to be a good option for you. Don't try to play the skillmonkey with this sort of idea in mind, since you'll be spending skill points in a different direction than is optimal for that role.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sorry I've been away, guys. I think I've got everyone here.


Alright I've got a request I'm have a bit of a goofball character a bard who focuses on not getting hit and distracting the crap out of the enemy with illusions ( they'd hit the player but in reality he's over there and when they hit that it's an illusion as well) that I can do already as a bard but the real issue is when they find me I'm looking for a build where the character can quickly get a hit or two and thus just dodge and attack. I'm not that great at builds so any help would be nice.

Mirror Image, and it's Greater cousin are your best friends. It's an illusion spell that makes it nearly impossible (1 in 8 chance) of even hitting the right 'you'. They're both Bard spells, so no special tricks necessary.


I'd like to see a traditionally "rough" warrior who combines unarmed and armed combat in old knightly manner, adding bodychecks and throws to armed strikes, being able to knock opponents away and strike and generally standing solid.
The character should be human (or at least humanoid and medium sized) and not use size enhancements, be able to knock an opponent away, throw him to the ground, attack unarmed and armed in combination and execute grab-strike combinations (that is, crossgrabbing an opponents arm and attack the created opening with the other, possibly even pulling the opponent into the attack but in any case precluding him from blocking it, pulling the opponent towards him off balance and then knocking him away again, and doing most of this as counterattacks.
Stylistically I would place the unarmed part between the knightly arts and cinematic Bajiquan (one place to get easy examples of that is watching Akira Yuki in the newer Virtua Fighter games, he has nice bodychecks and throws that have this solid feeling), the armed part in the direction of the German Long Sword.
I know there is a few things you can use and refluff for this, but I would like to know which ones you would suggest to use for this concept and how to piece them together.

(hmm, actually, a baji-pigua master would as well be interesting to try to build...)

Okay, that's definately doable. Snap Kick gives you an extra unarmed attack to your attack progression, so there's your armed and unarmed attacks combined. Going Unarmed Swordsage is easy, using a Monk's Belt to increase your damage a bit.

Knocking opponents away is as easy as Setting Sun, unless you want to go the Knockback route. Heck, you should be able to do both rather easily. Swordsage gets proficency in all martial melee weapons, so you can definately use a Longsword.

Standing solid is as simple as Stone Dragon, although there's plenty of counters in Setting Sun as well. There's also the 'Concentration check in place of a saving throw' maneuvers that Diamond Mind has, which will be of use to you.

As far as counter-attacks, that's easy enough to do with Combat Reflexes + Karmic Strike. If you want to pick up Improved Trip, that would give you additional options for knocking down. If you're feeling the feat crunch, you can always dip Monk2 (Passive Way variant) for Combat Expertise and Improved Trip as bonus feats. This also nets you Evasion, which you should probably trade off for an ACF since you get that from Swordsage as well, and it can't be used in armor. I suggest Spell Reflection.


I have been pondering a way to build this character for a while, and simply cannot come up with an effective build that does not hamper itself by trying to do to much at once.

The concept is an agile and mobile combatant who is capable in close combat using a dagger and/or unarmed attacks. On top of this the character must have access to magic that allows her to Control and communicate with animals and manipulate plants and elemental forces (wind, water, earth and fire). Bonus points if she has the ability to sense danger and mystic forces.
(I would prefer if her magic was limited to these specific things, but it is acceptable to have some extra tricks in that bag)

Hmmm... that's actually a surprisingly tall order. Swordsage might work, although there isn't any communicating with animals. But Desert Wind nets you Fire, Stone Dragon gets you earth, and Shadow Hand and Diamond Mind both get abilities that are air based (hearing the air and airwalk, plus the teleport and garrote maneuvers can easily be reflavored with an air flavor). A few Shadow Hand maneuvers do Cold damage.

Another option is going to be Incarnum-based. Wind Cloak gives you DR and deflect missiles, Beast Tamer Circlet gives you Speak with Animals, Winter Mask nets you a Cone of Cold effect (but it requires the Throat chakra).

Come to think of it, Crown chakra is a Least chakra, you can open it up at level 6. A two-level dip in Totemist gives you acces to it, some essentia to invest in it, and a Totem chakra slot which is really useful for various abilities. Doing this on top of Swordsage gives you nearly anything you'd want.


Alright new build for a more complicated character. I'm looking for something with the survival ability of a Frenzied bezerker, a decent sword something large that does damage and enough strength to run through a wall without losing momentum. Also something to give him a good resistance to magic would be nice.

So zero survivability with a chance of a TPK, any mid-level fighter, and spell resistance that is more effective on benefitial spells (like the cure series) than detrimental ones... why wouldn't you want something actually mechanically viable? There's several reasons why I don't much like FB... being a walking TPK is only one of them.

For better survivability and more reliable damage output, without the TPK chance, I suggest Warblade. D12 HD, has the Concentration check replacing a saving throw maneuvers so you can ignore many magical effects, and improved uncanny dodge to ignore rogues. Then a two-level dip in Witch Slayer nets you Mettle, grab a Ring of Evasion, and if it offers a save, you're practically immune to it, without needing to worry about friendly spells also bouncing off, like Spell Resistance gives you.


Hello, Shneeky, I have a pair of concepts for you that I have been wondering about.

The first is the liege lord. He is lean and short, with a temper a lot shorter than him, either a human or something that can look close to it. He can fight (with a sword and quick strikes, is how I imagine it), but prefers to give orders to his vassals and/or summons and have them fight for him. He has a particular affinity with the fey, treating them better than any of his other summons and being able to augment either himself and/or them with his presence. He's not bad looking at all, and though this does not necessarily have to be represented by Charisma, he does have a very intimidating presence when he wants to use it.

And then the primary vassal, a man that is much stronger than he looks but tends to carry himself as unassuming until he needs to prove his loyalty. He is freakishly strong, able to pick up and throw such creatures as elephants or dinosaurs, punch through iron walls, and other such things since he was a child. When fighting, he likes to use knives, claws, gauntlets or other such things that he can pull or conjure from anywhere and either use with his full strength or pulling punches as needed.

The lord himself sounds like a simple Aristocrat with either Fearful Presence or Imperious Command feat. If you want him to be a decent fighter, Swashbuckler would work well for this.

His vassal sounds like a human Swordsage. Throwing elephants comes into play with Setting Sun and punching through iron walls comes from Stone Dragon. Unarmed Swordsage lets him have high unarmed damage, which you can use with costume claws/gauntlets. Unarmed strikes you can also pull to non-lethal without a -4 penalty.


This looks interesting. Maybe you can help me out. I'm rather stuck on a character for a 3rd-level campaign. I'm a catgirl (tibbit to be precise), and I want to be able to do some of those fancy moves like you see in the Assassin's Creed games. (Such as break through an enemy's weapon, disarm them and use their own weapon to kill people, cause an enemy to hit another enemy, etc.) I do want to use Ranged Pin. Flurry of Blows would be nice, but I'm not married to it. I think some of these things can be pulled off with Maneuvers (swordsage or warblade, or something else), but I'm just not sure where to go. This is my first time really using things like trip and pin.

I haven't played Assassin's Creed, but it's an interesting character concept.

And it sounds like Swordsage is the flavor of the day, because it would go along great with it. Snap Kick is a mechanically vialbe Flurry of Blows, although a two-level dip in Monk isn't the worst thing in the world.

You are wanting to invest heavily in Setting Sun and Shadow Hand, it seems. The maneuver Scorpion Parry from Setting Sun lets you parry an incoming attack, and have it hit an adjacent opponent, which can include himself. The prestige class Bloodstorm Blade lets you throw a weapon and have it count as a melee attack, which means you can then trip and disarm at range.

[dextercorvia]

How about a pair of dark characters that grow more powerful by killing their enemies(beyond XP). A ritual magician that sacrifices virgins (or whatever) to power spells, and a fierce tribesman, that subsumes his enemies' power by eating their fresh hearts.

I'll just leave this here.

[Doomboy911]

How about a pair of dark characters that grow more powerful by killing their enemies(beyond XP). A ritual magician that sacrifices virgins (or whatever) to power spells, and a fierce tribesman, that subsumes his enemies' power by eating their fresh hearts.

Yeah they've got those it's called make a character who starts a cult garaunteed to get folks like that for free. Probably won't do much but raise morale.

[big teej]

I've got one...

using the sources below.

build me a character who's main tactic is to charge on a horse, while having both himself and the horse being silenced (so as to be unheard), whilst under the effects of greater invisibility, and to do massive sneak attack damage.
,massive in this case being a minimum of 3d6 sneak attack....
if possilbe I'd like the build to be 10th level or less.

sources available
PHB I & II
DMG I & II
MM I, II, & III
BOED
BOVD
A&EG
Races of Stone
Masters of the Wild
Sword and Fist
Defenders of the faith
Song and Silence
Enemies and Allies
Tome and Blood
Unearthed Arcana
Psionics Handbook
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Cityscape
magic of incarnum
oriental adventures
Dieties and Demigods

[NineThePuma]

I've got one...

using the sources below.

build me a character who's main tactic is to charge on a horse, while having both himself and the horse being silenced (so as to be unheard), whilst under the effects of greater invisibility, and to do massive sneak attack damage.
,massive in this case being a minimum of 3d6 sneak attack....
if possilbe I'd like the build to be 10th level or less.

That's not the point of the thread.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I've got one...

using the sources below.

build me a character who's main tactic is to charge on a horse, while having both himself and the horse being silenced (so as to be unheard), whilst under the effects of greater invisibility, and to do massive sneak attack damage.
,massive in this case being a minimum of 3d6 sneak attack....
if possilbe I'd like the build to be 10th level or less.

sources available
PHB I & II
DMG I & II
MM I, II, & III
BOED
BOVD
A&EG
Races of Stone
Masters of the Wild
Sword and Fist
Defenders of the faith
Song and Silence
Enemies and Allies
Tome and Blood
Unearthed Arcana
Psionics Handbook
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Cityscape
magic of incarnum
oriental adventures
Dieties and Demigods

It's both not the point and pathetically easy without leaving Core. Rogue5 has your 3d6 sneak attack, that leaves 5 free levels to do whatever you want with. You can UMD wands of Greater Invisibility and Silence.

Go visit the CharOp thread if you are wanting straight-up character optimization, although I really don't understand the point of your request, considering how pathetically under-optimized the entire concept is. 3d6 at level 10 is a joke. Perhaps that was a typo and you meant 30d6?

[Doomboy911]

Alright short concept just looking for a spell or something. I want something to transform into a shadow. I don't mean the zombie an actual shadow on the ground. Does such a thing exist in dnd?

[mootoall]

Alright short concept just looking for a spell or something. I want something to transform into a shadow. I don't mean the zombie an actual shadow on the ground. Does such a thing exist in dnd?

Closest thing I can think of is a refluffed Gaseous Form.

[Perryy]

I've been toying with this concept for a while:

Essentially a master Crafter. He sits on the sidelines and lets his fleet of Constructs do all the hardwork. If the time ever comes for him to join the combat he has an arsenal of alchemical items and explosives at hand to take care of his enemies. One of the many ideas I had for him were rat constructs built with explosives inside of them to blast on impact. (Though I feel this next question may me a little off handle from the rules) Would this character be cost effective/efficient and playable? Regardless of that I would still like to see your ideas on the concept. :smallsmile:

[ReluctantDragon]

I've got one!

Dunno if this is viable or not, but:

I've always had a particular love for the Midnight Bomber character(from The Tick cartoon series) "The Midnight Bomber what bombs at Midnight!"

I've always envisioned a D&D version of him as an Alchemist. I know there is the Grenadier feat out there, but it seems so...flat. Wasn't sure if there was a way to put together a guy who likes throwing different kinds of molotov cocktails and is good at it, in the D&D format...

Sorry if this doesn't really fit the purpose of the thread, I just love that character idea...