Has Glee Gone Bad?

[Sunken Valley]

I remember when Glee was first on the air. It was a really good show with clever one liners (mostly from Sue Sylvester), a decent plot (the when will they know what we know? pregnancy storyline), very good songs (rain on my parade is the standout for me) and of course the moral of how you have to raise yourself up not bring others down. But nowadays Glee is not like that. It has become a mess of bad episodes (The Britanny Spears and New York episodes are the main ones people mention although I disliked that Lady Gaga episode for story based reasons), poor characterisation (Quinn's derailment, Lady Not-appearing-in-this-show-after-all Corazon), Abysmal plots (when they exist, the whole Karofsky thing is dire), rubbish songs (the "original" songs) and worse of all the moral appears to appear and disappear so as not to exist. Even Sue is not funny anymore. Does all of this mean that by Season 3 the Shark shall consume Glee once and for all?

[Lord Seth]

Despite the propensity to declare "jump the shark" midway through a show, it's something that can really only be declared after the series is over.

[Sunken Valley]

Hasn't stopped Simpsons and Family Guy from being accused. But I'll change the title to better reflect my point.

[Lord Seth]

Hasn't stopped Simpsons and Family Guy from being accused.Yeah, and they really shouldn't be. "Gone downhill" is a perfectly reasonable term, but "jump the shark" refers to a specific moment, and you can't really figure out that moment until the series is over.

As for Glee? Yeah, I think it's gone downhill, this season lost me. The first season was hit-or-miss, but the misses have gone up this season and the hits gone down. This season seems to have taken the bad qualities of the first season (inconsistent characterization, annoying preachiness, Kurt being a Gary Stu) and accentuated them while losing some of the good qualities of the first season.

The fact they're getting a full writer staff next season may help things out (apparently they were often pressed for time in writing and and sometimes had to finish scripts as they were shooting), at least in keeping things more consistent, though. I guess we'll see.

[VanBuren]

I remember when Glee was first on the air. It was a really good show with clever one liners (mostly from Sue Sylvester), a decent plot (the when will they know what we know? pregnancy storyline), very good songs (rain on my parade is the standout for me) and of course the moral of how you have to raise yourself up not bring others down. But nowadays Glee is not like that. It has become a mess of bad episodes (The Britanny Spears and New York episodes are the main ones people mention although I disliked that Lady Gaga episode for story based reasons), poor characterisation (Quinn's derailment, Lady Not-appearing-in-this-show-after-all Corazon), Abysmal plots (when they exist, the whole Karofsky thing is dire), rubbish songs (the "original" songs) and worse of all the moral appears to appear and disappear so as not to exist. Even Sue is not funny anymore. Does all of this mean that by Season 3 the Shark shall consume Glee once and for all?

Please, the first half of season 1 was marked by the inability of the writers to settle on a consistent tone for the show. I couldn't tell whether I was going to be watching an angsty teen show or an over-the-top parody. I'm glad they settled on one even though the season finale left be underwhelmed.

[Katana_Geldar]

Was it ever good?

[Xondoure]

Glee tries to be one of those shows where the atmosphere is light and happy but can become a very dramatic and realistic tone. The problem is it tries. If it had just stuck to the light hearted crazy parody aspects in time those dramatic moments would have appeared on their own and made the world come together. As it is the show is bipolar, the songs are mostly "fixed" after one rendition, and the drama is tacky... I still watch it though.

[Dr.Epic]

Honestly, I never saw the appear of Glee. It just seems like another high school melodrama with a musical gimmick. From what I've seen, which isn't much, the characters outside of the actual glee club appear to be one dimensional, cruel, shallow, high school stereotypes which is only entertaining in a high school melodrama if they're the clones of historical figures. As for the musical bit, while I don't find the appear of most musical, the added benefit of singing doesn't seem enough to make something entertaining, unless its a musical with superheroes and mad scientist. That's just my own opinion.

[Haruki-kun]

Honestly, I never saw the appear of Glee. It just seems like another high school melodrama with a musical gimmick. From what I've seen, which isn't much, the characters outside of the actual glee club appear to be one dimensional, cruel, shallow, high school stereotypes which is only entertaining in a high school melodrama if they're the clones of historical figures. As for the musical bit, while I don't find the appear of most musical, the added benefit of singing doesn't seem enough to make something entertaining, unless its a musical with superheroes and mad scientist. That's just my own opinion.

My mom says "I like it because I like music." I guess if you're into music it's easier to like Glee.

With that in mind I SEE the appeal in Glee, but it doesn't really appeal to me that much.

PS: You typo'd "appeal".

[dromer]

Same issue as The Spirit movie. Can't set a tone and stick with it.

[toasty]

My mom says "I like it because I like music." I guess if you're into music it's easier to like Glee.

With that in mind I SEE the appeal in Glee, but it doesn't really appeal to me that much.

PS: You typo'd "appeal".

I like Music. I dislike Glee. Meh, the music is okay. But I'd rather listen to music I like. :smallbiggrin:

[Haruki-kun]

I like Music. I dislike Glee. Meh, the music is okay. But I'd rather listen to music I like. :smallbiggrin:

A point to make against Glee is that the music isn't original, I suppose. If it were, we could say "The music is nice!" The music in Glee IS nice, but that's thanks to the original artists, not Glee's Cast and Crew.

[Raistlin1040]

Really, the Glee versions of Friday and Baby are great because of Rebecca Black and Justin Bieber?

Eh. I like Glee. Always have. It definitely has its flaws, but I'd still say it's a pretty decent show.

[ThirdEmperor]

Frankly, I've never forgiven Glee for what they did to Rocky Horror Picture Show. It was like watching someone murder your pet dog with a blunt knife.:smallannoyed:

[Raistlin1040]

Frankly, I've never forgiven Glee for what they did to Rocky Horror Picture Show. It was like watching someone murder your pet dog with a blunt knife.:smallannoyed:Really? I'm the biggest Rocky Horror Picture Show fans I know and I loved that episode (except for having Frank be played by a girl). I thought it was great that so many people were introduced to the show and the music, because it's not exactly well known among modern youth.

[Mystic Muse]

Really? I'm the biggest Rocky Horror Picture Show fans I know and I loved that episode (except for having Frank be played by a girl). I thought it was great that so many people were introduced to the show and the music, because it's not exactly well known among modern youth.

I was mostly irritated they changed "Transsexual" to "Fantastic" or something like that.:smallannoyed:

I haven't even seen the Rocky Horror Picture show and that bit annoyed me.

[Sunken Valley]

People agree, good stuff. But does anyone have particular best or worst episodes? Does anyone know what will make it better (no songs).

I will be mentioning two episodes I did not like (Theatricallity and Original Song) at some point.

[Benson]

It's my guilty pleasure show. It has lots of moments of dumb but I still watch it anyway for its train wreck value and for those few moments that actually make me enjoy it. I liked the episode 'Duets' as it was a nice ensemble piece focusing on the glee kids with good development for the majority of them...though of course THAT would just be kicked to the curb in later episodes >_>'

[Lord Loss]

I watch it at times, although the recent seasons are far worse than the first. The on thing I can't stand, though is some of my friends. I'm a classic rock fan. Some of them insist the glee version of don't stop believing is better than the original. I tend to overreact (:smallsigh::smallannoyed::smallmad::smallfurious: )

[Haruki-kun]

Really, the Glee versions of Friday and Baby are great because of Rebecca Black and Justin Bieber?

That's so not what I was saying.... and no. I hated those either way. I honestly still can't believe Glee did Friday of all things.

[ThirdEmperor]

I was mostly irritated they changed "Transsexual" to "Fantastic" or something like that.:smallannoyed:

I haven't even seen the Rocky Horror Picture show and that bit annoyed me.

Exactly. The singing was tolerable, I suppose (although the performance of Science Fiction/Double Feature was incredibly annoying to listen to, thanks to the singer's slight lisp) but seriously, you do not censor RHPS. Ever. Or it's not Rocky Horror anymore. I would be very glad that Glee introduced Rocky Horror to a bunch of people who've never seen it before, except that they did so in the worst way possible, and ended up completely missing the point. :smallannoyed:

[Lord Seth]

Exactly. The singing was tolerable, I suppose (although the performance of Science Fiction/Double Feature was incredibly annoying to listen to, thanks to the singer's slight lisp) but seriously, you do not censor RHPS. Ever. Or it's not Rocky Horror anymore. I would be very glad that Glee introduced Rocky Horror to a bunch of people who've never seen it before, except that they did so in the worst way possible, and ended up completely missing the point. :smallannoyed:No, Mr. Schuester, who was the one who changed the lyrics, missed the point. Remember how he only wanted to put on the Rocky Horror play because he selfishly thought it would make Emma like him more, but when it was pointed out that Rocky Horror is kinda a bit mature for a high school production, he said he'd rewrite it to make it suitable. That was, presumably, one of his edits. It was an in-universe missing of the point.

[Xondoure]

Technically all censorship has an in universe explanation with Glee, doesn't make it right.

[ThirdEmperor]

Yep. I totally understand that it was in universe censorship as well, however, it's pretty obvious that was just a cheap way to explain the fact that the television studio had already censored it. Just because they can think of a way to explain it doesn't justify censorship, although I do give them points for not just pretending it was always that way.

Also, RHPS is totally appropriate for a high school play. In fact, the theater class at my high school was gonna perform it, although in the end the whole production fell apart because of DRAMA.

Frankly, I thought Glee was dumb in the first place, and only decided to give the show a second chance to prove it was worth watching when I heard they were gonna do RHPS. Needless to say, I was not impressed, not do I watch it anymore.

[Xondoure]

Yep. I totally understand that it was in universe censorship as well, however, it's pretty obvious that was just a cheap way to explain the fact that the television studio had already censored it. Just because they can think of a way to explain it doesn't justify censorship, although I do give them points for not just pretending it was always that way.

Also, RHPS is totally appropriate for a high school play. In fact, the theater class at my high school was gonna perform it, although in the end the whole production fell apart because of DRAMA.

Frankly, I thought Glee was dumb in the first place, and only decided to give the show a second chance to prove it was worth watching when I heard they were gonna do RHPS. Needless to say, I was not impressed, not do I watch it anymore.

It really depends on the program and in a more conservative district RHPS would be absolutely inappropriate. Even in Seattle drama programs at highschools have constant battles with the administration over what they are allowed to do.

[Dvandemon]

Really? I'm the biggest Rocky Horror Picture Show fans I know and I loved that episode (except for having Frank be played by a girl). I thought it was great that so many people were introduced to the show and the music, because it's not exactly well known among modern youth.

I missed that ep, and in a time in my life where Rocky Horror was becoming so very relevant.

[Avilan the Grey]

I have watched 3 episodes total, the RHPS one was the first.

I have trouble enjoying it mostly because I LOATHE Sue. She ruins the whole show for me and removes so much that could be awesome by destroying it with pettiness and political strawmen. The stupid IRL censorship crap doesn't help.

It might be that I was severely bullied all from first to 8th grade and I cannot stand bullies of any sort i media if they don't get their face punched either physically or metaphorically before the end of the episode / movie.

[Ursus the Grim]

Was it ever good?

I've got to agree with this sentiment. The show never really appealed to me, and I have some terrible taste. The cover/mashups were horrible when compared to the original. So you strip the music from Glee and what do you have? A shallow, strawman-laden pop show. Never really liked it and haven't seen it recently enough to know when it started going downhill below sea level.

The last episodes I sat through, people tried to make things more dramatic instead of funny, which really killed any appeal it might have had for me. The RHPS episode made me want to kick a small child through a window and every song since has felt lackluster.

[VanBuren]

I have watched 3 episodes total, the RHPS one was the first.

I have trouble enjoying it mostly because I LOATHE Sue. She ruins the whole show for me and removes so much that could be awesome by destroying it with pettiness and political strawmen. The stupid IRL censorship crap doesn't help.

It might be that I was severely bullied all from first to 8th grade and I cannot stand bullies of any sort i media if they don't get their face punched either physically or metaphorically before the end of the episode / movie.

Seriously? Sue is such an over-the-top villain that it becomes hilarious IMO. To me she's the best part of the show.

"If it is one minute late, I will go to the animal shelter and get you a kitty cat. I will let you fall in love with that kitty cat. And then on some dark, cold night, I will steal away into your home and punch you in the face."

And at any rate, there's a fair amount of hidden depths there and she gets a bunch of Pet the Dog moments. The biggest ones:


Sue has an older sister that suffers from Down's Syndrome. Despite what the show might lead you to believe, Sue has nothing but the utmost love and compassion for her. Every day she goes over to her and reads with her or just spends time together as sisters. She dies in Season 2, and it's probably the only time Sue is really in tears.
When cheerleading tryouts are held, Sue lets a young girl with Down's join the squad, much to the disbelief of everyone else. She becomes Sue's right hand, and Sue does work her pretty hard but fairly.
In the Season 1 finale, despite antagonizing the Glee club, she--having worked her way into being a judge is the only one to vote for New Directions to win. She also voids the agreement that would have forced Will to disband the Glee club.
Somewhat hypocritically, she's not a huge fan of bullying. Even though she insults Kurt (the gay kid), albeit for liking showtunes as opposed to his sexuality, when she learns that one of the football jocks had threatened to kill him, she does everything in her power to suspend or expel the bully. It doesn't work, but she really went after it.

[Eurus]

I was mostly irritated they changed "Transsexual" to "Fantastic" or something like that.:smallannoyed:

I haven't even seen the Rocky Horror Picture show and that bit annoyed me.

I was kind of baffled by that. Why "transsexual" would be censored like literally three words after an uncensored "transvestite," I have no idea.

Truthfully, I think Sue's pet-the-dog moments are the biggest problem with her character because it makes it harder to love her for her sheer evilness. She is never going to be an even remotely good person; I don't care if her sister has Down's Syndrome when she's intentionally giving teenage girls eating disorders and knocking children against lockers for the hell of it. Trying to humanize her only shifts her that uncomfortable distance from "hilariously over the top" to "just kind of horrifying."

[VanBuren]

I was kind of baffled by that. Why "transsexual" would be censored like literally three words after an uncensored "transvestite," I have no idea.

Truthfully, I think Sue's pet-the-dog moments are the biggest problem with her character because it makes it harder to love her for her sheer evilness. She is never going to be an even remotely good person; I don't care if her sister has Down's Syndrome when she's intentionally giving teenage girls eating disorders and knocking children against lockers for the hell of it. Trying to humanize her only shifts her that uncomfortable distance from "hilariously over the top" to "just kind of horrifying."

It's hardly fair to single her out for that. Every character in this show has about two modes they randomly switch between. Will is either a good teacher or incredibly self-centered, Kurt is either angsty or a creepy stalker. Finn is either the leader, or dumb as a brick, Rachel is either learning to get along with others or sending her competition to crack houses, etc.

[Xondoure]

Consistency? Whats that? Here have some more songs.

[Avilan the Grey]

I was kind of baffled by that. Why "transsexual" would be censored like literally three words after an uncensored "transvestite," I have no idea.

Truthfully, I think Sue's pet-the-dog moments are the biggest problem with her character because it makes it harder to love her for her sheer evilness. She is never going to be an even remotely good person; I don't care if her sister has Down's Syndrome when she's intentionally giving teenage girls eating disorders and knocking children against lockers for the hell of it. Trying to humanize her only shifts her that uncomfortable distance from "hilariously over the top" to "just kind of horrifying."

I agree completely; besides it only proves what The Giant for example has tried to show us for years; even Evil people has loved ones. But yes, if I ever ran in to her for real, I would not take responsibility for my actions. She needs to be put in prison, the hospital or 6 feet under to protect the kids.

[VanBuren]

I agree completely; besides it only proves what The Giant for example has tried to show us for years; even Evil people has loved ones. But yes, if I ever ran in to her for real, I would not take responsibility for my actions. She needs to be put in prison, the hospital or 6 feet under to protect the kids.

I don't see why there are any circumstances where it's OK to not take responsibility for one's own actions. I tolerate it in characters that cross the line twice, but even then only fictional characters.

Maybe it's just a difference of philosophy, but why should someone else's actions exempt me from personal responsibility?

[Sunken Valley]

Here are the pet peeve episodes

Theatricallity: first off the Lady Gaga songs were only 2. This show promises five songs an episode, I want five lady Gaga songs. And Poker Face was the wrong choice. next is the conversation between Finn and Burt. Kurt invaded Finn's private space. This was wrong. Burt had no right to lay into Finn with no knowledge of the fact's. The fact that he was still allowed to marry Carol after being so irresponsible without an oncamera apology is apalling. Finally, the Rachael and mum plot. I think they should have stayed together. The reasong they did not is because Mr Schuster said they should not with no reason why. In both his characters (good teacher and peacock in human form) Will digs himself into his Glee club's affairs. I hate him for this.

I would like to mention Furt here but I switched off half way through. it was that bad.

Original Song: The decision to do original songs is a bad idea. The best ones they did were "hell to the no" and "trouty mouth" which Will rejected. "loser like me" and "get it right" sounded too much like the warblers song's. If I had been a judge, I'd have voted for the one about Jesus. It was also here that Quinn's reverse character development. Why does Murphy and co need to turn the character with the most development back into the ice queen? Why?

[Xondoure]

Both Kurt and Finn were in the wrong and needed to be told off. For me, the annoyance is not that Finn was yelled at but that it no one ever told Kurt off properly other than Finn who went about it completely wrong.

[Avilan the Grey]

I don't see why there are any circumstances where it's OK to not take responsibility for one's own actions. I tolerate it in characters that cross the line twice, but even then only fictional characters.

Maybe it's just a difference of philosophy, but why should someone else's actions exempt me from personal responsibility?

You are right; this is a bad choice of words. If she existed for real, and I met her, I would slug her and not care what consequences would follow.

[VanBuren]

You are right; this is a bad choice of words. If she existed for real, and I met her, I would slug her and not care what consequences would follow.

Ah, well that's a bit of a different beast then. Again, I'm not sure I would agree with that course of action, but I can certainly understand it.