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NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 07:10 PM
The Racist


"Filthy, disgusting half-breeds!" Dolores Jane Umbridge, a racist

The racist is a person who doesn't just hate a particular group of people, she supports true, ethnic cleansing of them. Her mission in life is to hunt down and kill every single member of the race she hates. Only when she has destroyed them down to the last one will she be able to rest easy.

Prerequisites
To become a racist, you must have the following:
Alignment: Any nongood
Skills: Survival 8 Ranks
Feats: Track
Special: Favored Enemy class feature

Hit Dice: d8

Class Skills: The racist class skills are as follows: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (All skills, taken individually), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble and Use Rope

Skill Points: 6+Int per level

The Racist
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|My Life's Mission, Strike of Death

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|Racist (Opposed Rolls/Knowledge checks)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Racist (Saving Throws), Racist Orator

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Racist (AC)

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Racist (Attack Rolls), You Can't Hide From Me

6th|
+6|
+5|
+2|
+2|Racist (Damage Reduction)

7th|
+7|
+5|
+2|
+2|Racist (Initiative)

8th|
+8|
+6|
+2|
+2|Racist (DC)

9th|
+9|
+6|
+3|
+3|Racist (Criticals)

10th|
+10|
+7|
+3|
+3|Slaughter Them All[/table]

Class Features
The following are the class features of the racist

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
A racist receives no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

My Life's Mission: A racist lives by a code. A code that she must end the life of every single creature she despises. Her hatred is unmatched, it gives her power beyond the likes of which the world has ever seen, but it also consumes her. Upon gaining this class feature, the racist chooses a single creature type which she has Favored Enemy for to dictate her entire class. Once this choice has been made it cannot change.

A racist's code of conduct dictates that she may never willingly cause nonlethal damage to a creature of her hated type. She may also never allow such a creature to walk away from her without attacking it. The racist's attitude towards creatures of her hated type can never be lowered through mundane or magical means to less than hostile, and once she has started attacking one of these creatures, she may not stop until either she is physically unable to attack or until it is dead (by any means. If the racist was not the one who killed it, she has not violated her code of conduct, as long as she uses every possible means to make sure she knows it is dead before walking away. It is common for racists to decapitate their victims after they have apparently fallen, just to be sure).

The racist may not under any circumstances engage in any sort of romantic or friendly relationships with a creature of her hated type.

If the racist willingly violates any portion of this code, her hate is so strong that she must make a Will saving throw (DC = 10+her character level+her Charisma modifier) or kill herself out of disgust for being weak. If she succeeds this saving throw, she instead becomes nauseated for one hour per character level. Killing the specific creature she let live ends this effect immediately (though it would be very hard to do so while nauseated)

Because of her conviction, the racist is granted a special reprieve: She never threatens to change either axis of her alignment in any direction for the unprovoked and meaningless slaughter of completely innocent members of her hated creature type. To her, killing these vile spawn is not good or evil, or lawful or chaotic. It is simply something that must be done.

In exchange for living by this code of conduct, the racist gains the scent ability, out to 30 feet (15 feet upwind and 60 feet downwind), but may only pick up creatures whose scent is equivalent to her hated creature type's scent. (This scent ability is fooled by high level illusion spells as normal, but the racist receives a bonus equal to her Favored Enemy bonus to saving throws against illusions pretending to be her hated creature type)

Additionally, at every level her Favored Enemy bonus for her hated creature type increases by 2 (this does not advance any other Favored Enemy bonuses).

Strike of Death (Ex): The racist can tap into the inner reserves of her hatred and lash out with deadly force. Once per day, against a creature of her hated creature type, the racist can use a Strike of Death. Her Favored Enemy bonus is doubled for this attack, and it applies to her attack rolls as well even if she is not level 5 yet (this bonus stacks with the ranger ACF Solitary Hunter). If the racist has Racist (Damage Reduction) and uses her Strike of Death against a creature that is at least 3 CR higher than her character level, her Favored Enemy damage reduction against all attacks from all creatures of her hated creature type (not just the one she targeted with Strike of Death) becomes DR X/- for the rest of the encounter.

Racist (Ex): A ranger is not a racist by any stretch of the imagination. The racist has studied her hated creature type to the point where she fights it perfectly in every way, exploiting all its weaknesses, and finishing it quickly.

Starting at level 2, the racist automatically succeeds any Knowledge check made to identify a creature of her hated creature type (this allows her to make the appropriate Knowledge check untrained), and she receives a bonus equal to her Favored Enemy bonus on Knowledge checks made to discover lore/statistics about the creature.

Additionally, at level 2, the racist adds her Favored Enemy bonus to all opposed combat rolls against creatures of her Favored Enemy type (grapple, trip, bull rush, etc)

At level 3, the racist adds her Favored Enemy bonus to all saving throws made against attacks, spells, spell-like and supernatural abilities made by creatures of her hated type.

At level 4, the racist adds her Favored Enemy bonus as an insight bonus to her AC against attacks from her hated creature type.

At level 5, the racist adds her Favored Enemy bonus to her attack rolls against creatures of her hated creature type. (This stacks with the Solitary Hunter ranger Alternate Class Feature)

At level 6, the racist receives DR X/Epic, where X is her Favored Enemy bonus, against her hated creature type only.

At level 7, the racist adds her Favored Enemy bonus to her initiative checks made during an encounter where she is fighting against a creature of her hated creature type.

At level 8, the racist adds her Favored Enemy bonus to the DC of all spells, spell-like and supernatural abilities that allow saving throws she uses against creatures of her hated type. (This incorporates the magic/psionic transparency thing, as well as affecting incarnum and martial maneuvers)

At level 9, the racist's bonus to damage rolls is added again to critical hits. (+20 FE bonus on a greataxe would result in 80 extra damage instead of 60)


Racist Orator (Ex): The racist is not evil. Her crusade must be done. She is able to sway others to her cause easily, because her convictions are so pure and raw. Starting at level 3, the racist gains a bonus equal to her Favored Enemy bonus on Diplomacy checks made to convince others to spare her of criminal charges for slaughtering a creature of her hated creature type. She also receives this bonus on Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate checks made to convince others to help her hunt creatures of her hated creature type. If she successfully makes such a check, all persons she convinced cannot have their attitude towards any creature of the hated creature type lowered by mundane or magical means to less than hostile for 24 hours.

You Can't Hide From Me! (Su): The racist hunts so determinedly that nothing will prevent her from catching her quarry. Starting at level 5, the racist is able to see any hated creature type in her field of vision regardless of invisibility, illusions, or shapechanging abilities, as per the true seeing spell. She may also, at will, attempt to dispel any dispellable hiding effects such as invisibility, or force a creature with a shapechanging ability back into its true form. This is a standard action, and the racist's caster level is treated as her class level + her favored enemy bonus.

Slaughter Them All (Ex): The racist is not worried about killing one or two powerful creatures. She wants to end an entire species. And that requires staying power. Whenever a racist kills a creature of her hated type, she receives the benefits of the cure serious wounds spell, as if cast by a 15th level cleric, and her Favored Enemy bonus for her hated creature type increases by 2. This increase in bonus lasts for 1 hour, stacks with itself, and whenever she kills another hated creature, she resets the duration. (Killed a creature 10 minutes ago, her FE is +2, she kills another, her FE is +4 and the new +4 lasts for a full hour)


Adaptation:

Racial Hatred: If your Favored Enemy bonus that you got was from a Racial Ranger level (Such as the Elven racial levels where you can get a higher bonus from choosing drow or spiders as your Favored Enemy), all class features of the racist improve by that amount instead. (IE, if you get +3 per Favored Enemy from your Ranger levels, you get +3 from each level of racist and from Slaughter Them All as well)

Hiro Protagonest
2011-06-24, 07:19 PM
I see somebody with favored enemy (dragon) getting shapechange at 15th level...

Shadow Lord
2011-06-24, 07:43 PM
Aren't all D&D characters Racist?

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 08:04 PM
I see somebody with favored enemy (dragon) getting shapechange at 15th level...

If you want to spend 15 levels studying dragons so you can turn into a dragon at will, 2 levels before a wizard or druid gains the ability to do it with whatever creature type you want, then that's your choice.

I dunno, I think it's fair for spending 15 levels studying a creature type to gain the ability to shapechange at will into that creature.

Lord Raziere
2011-06-24, 08:13 PM
Aren't all D&D characters Racist?

You win the thread.

Shadow Lord
2011-06-24, 08:21 PM
Aren't all D&D characters Racist?

You win the thread.

May I sig this?

Lord Raziere
2011-06-24, 08:27 PM
of course, you did nothing but state the truth.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 08:32 PM
Aren't all D&D characters Racist?

Yep. That's why I figured we should stop pretending.

Vulaas
2011-06-24, 09:18 PM
I think this is far scarier if you are shapechanging into Outsiders (choose your own subtype, any of them has something scary) or Aberrations. I mean, it doesn't say you can only do it for that infiltration, so I can easily see someone quick turning into a Solar to raise their dead party members, or a Black Ethergaunt to whip up some high-powered wizardry.

Edit: Not to mention that your favored enemy bonus, with minor optimizing will be a +30, meaning that Shapechange will be a very high CL and almost impossible to dispel (though you can just do it again next round, so not sure how much that matters)

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 09:24 PM
I think this is far scarier if you are shapechanging into Outsiders (choose your own subtype, any of them has something scary) or Aberrations. I mean, it doesn't say you can only do it for that infiltration, so I can easily see someone quick turning into a Solar to raise their dead party members, or a Black Ethergaunt to whip up some high-powered wizardry.

That was intentional. If you have studied a single species/group for what could be considered 3/4 of your entire life (15/20 class levels), you should have the power to mimic them. But I'll change it to once per day.

Seerow
2011-06-24, 09:43 PM
Honestly, the Walk Among them ability makes no sense. It may be theoretically be balanced since as someone else said it's a limited shapechange 2 levels early... but why a racist would ever want to pose as the thing he hates is something beyond me. I can get "destroy from within" sorta, but that's really pretty much stretching it. Especially with the need to kill one of your favored enemy every hour you're among them while using this... so any sort of long term infiltration is impossible... the only thing you really gain is being able to use their powers against them, or worse, use them in combat against others (seriously, the guy who is racist against dragons will turn into a dragon to fight anything, because he can, and it's better than being himself).

Better if it was some improved hide in plan sight type deal that works against your favored enemy, so you can hide deep within enemy territory, picking them off one by one, or organizing some larger scale carnage, while they are totally oblivious to you.

Similarly, gaining proficiency with your hated enemy's weapons/armor seems stupid. What racist would want to use stuff made by those they hate? They're more likely to consider it of inferior craftsmanship, the tools of barbarians that aren't worth touching. I would even consider banning them from using such gear.

Other suggestions:

-Your attacks always count as bane of your hated enemy. An extra +2 enhancement bonus and +2d6 damage is nice.
-Encouraging rather than using gear that the hated race makes, encouraging gear that is offensive to those creature types. You have favored enemy (Dragon), you go into battle wearing dragonscale armor, and taunt the Dragon about how you made it from his sweet brother Bill.
-Smite 1 or 2 times per encounter against your hated enemy.
-Unless I'm mistaken, your level 9 racist ability (multiply hated enemy damage on a crit) is a baseline effect. All flat damage boosts get multiplied on a crit, it's only damage dice that don't.
-Racist Orator should come earlier. You're likely to get into trouble much earlier than 8th level, and will need that bonus to help talk yourself out of it.
-Killing yourself for being weak for not killing someone of your hated enemy is ridiculously extreme. Some form of morale penalty that stacks up with offenses until you either kill the bastard or eventually kill yourself seems more fitting.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 09:50 PM
Honestly, the Walk Among them ability makes no sense. It may be theoretically be balanced since as someone else said it's a limited shapechange 2 levels early... but why a racist would ever want to pose as the thing he hates is something beyond me. I can get "destroy from within" sorta, but that's really pretty much stretching it. Especially with the need to kill one of your favored enemy every hour you're among them while using this... so any sort of long term infiltration is impossible... the only thing you really gain is being able to use their powers against them, or worse, use them in combat against others (seriously, the guy who is racist against dragons will turn into a dragon to fight anything, because he can, and it's better than being himself).

Better if it was some improved hide in plan sight type deal that works against your favored enemy, so you can hide deep within enemy territory, picking them off one by one, or organizing some larger scale carnage, while they are totally oblivious to you.

Similarly, gaining proficiency with your hated enemy's weapons/armor seems stupid. What racist would want to use stuff made by those they hate? They're more likely to consider it of inferior craftsmanship, the tools of barbarians that aren't worth touching. I would even consider banning them from using such gear.

Other suggestions:

-Your attacks always count as bane of your hated enemy. An extra +2 enhancement bonus and +2d6 damage is nice.
-Encouraging rather than using gear that the hated race makes, encouraging gear that is offensive to those creature types. You have favored enemy (Dragon), you go into battle wearing dragonscale armor, and taunt the Dragon about how you made it from his sweet brother Bill.
-Smite 1 or 2 times per encounter against your hated enemy.
-Unless I'm mistaken, your level 9 racist ability (multiply hated enemy damage on a crit) is a baseline effect. All flat damage boosts get multiplied on a crit, it's only damage dice that don't.
-Racist Orator should come earlier. You're likely to get into trouble much earlier than 8th level, and will need that bonus to help talk yourself out of it.
-Killing yourself for being weak for not killing someone of your hated enemy is ridiculously extreme. Some form of morale penalty that stacks up with offenses until you either kill the bastard or eventually kill yourself seems more fitting.

I already offer Smite. Racists get +2/level to attack and damage rolls against their Favored Enemies. Automatically.

I'll change Racist 9 to make it clear that it's in addition to the normal multiplier.

I'll move Racist Orator up to 3rd level.

Rangers already get a Bane spell, so not providing it by the class encourages the Racist to stay Ranger for a bit longer.

The proficiency with gear they make is so that you can pose among them better.

I'll change the capstone, don't know to what yet, but enough people have complained about it.

BladeofOblivion
2011-06-24, 09:53 PM
I'll change the capstone, don't know to what yet, but enough people have complained about it.

Familicide, Obviously.

Dvandemon
2011-06-24, 10:00 PM
Made me go :eek:

Seerow
2011-06-24, 10:02 PM
I already offer Smite. Racists get +2/level to attack and damage rolls against their Favored Enemies. Automatically.

Come to think of it, +2/level seems pretty extreme, actually. Consider a Ranger 10/Racist10 is getting +26 as a favored enemy bonus. Maybe cut that down to +1/level or +2/2 levels, and add smite back in. Especially since you're giving the favored enemy bonus as damage reduction, AC bonus, skill bonus, etc.

Then make the smite +2xracist level damage and add charisma or whatever stat you think is appropriate to hit.


I'll change Racist 9 to make it clear that it's in addition to the normal multiplier.

So someone with a x4 multiplier normally gets a x8 multiplier against their hated enemy?


Rangers already get a Bane spell, so not providing it by the class encourages the Racist to stay Ranger for a bit longer.

So you want someone to stay in ranger so they can be better at fighting their hated enemy than if they were a racist?


The proficiency with gear they make is so that you can pose among them better.

I'll change the capstone, don't know to what yet, but enough people have complained about it.

Well since you're changing the capstone, getting rid of the gear won't be an issue. My problem with it, like I said, isn't the balance, but that it makes no sense in the context of the class. If it had more restrictions (can only be used to infiltrate, or something like that) I wouldn't mind it, but as written you turn into your favored enemy, then go kill everything else as one of them. That's basically the exact opposite of what you would expect. Hell even classes that are built around loving a specific species and wanting to turn themselves into one rarely get something like that. (This is why I suggested a hide in plain sight specific to your hated enemy instead, so you can still get the infiltration aspect without needing to pose as what you hate.)

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 10:16 PM
Come to think of it, +2/level seems pretty extreme, actually. Consider a Ranger 10/Racist10 is getting +26 as a favored enemy bonus. Maybe cut that down to +1/level or +2/2 levels, and add smite back in. Especially since you're giving the favored enemy bonus as damage reduction, AC bonus, skill bonus, etc.

Then make the smite +2xracist level damage and add charisma or whatever stat you think is appropriate to hit.



So someone with a x4 multiplier normally gets a x8 multiplier against their hated enemy?



So you want someone to stay in ranger so they can be better at fighting their hated enemy than if they were a racist?



Well since you're changing the capstone, getting rid of the gear won't be an issue. My problem with it, like I said, isn't the balance, but that it makes no sense in the context of the class. If it had more restrictions (can only be used to infiltrate, or something like that) I wouldn't mind it, but as written you turn into your favored enemy, then go kill everything else as one of them. That's basically the exact opposite of what you would expect. Hell even classes that are built around loving a specific species and wanting to turn themselves into one rarely get something like that. (This is why I suggested a hide in plain sight specific to your hated enemy instead, so you can still get the infiltration aspect without needing to pose as what you hate.)

I'm not cynical enough yet to believe that racism and ignorance are endorsed by gods. Smiting is divine. It does not come from studying weaknesses or raw hatred. It is a god-given power. And I don't want to play a D&D game where the gods give you the power to harm another just because of their creature type.

No, someone with a x4 multiplier would get a x5 multiplier. To the bonus damage only.

Becoming naturally familiar with your enemy's tools over the course of studying them doesn't necessarily mean you'll use them. It just means you're not stupid.

Instead of making them need to hide, I gave them the power to take on a whole village by themselves. Seemed appropriate.

Lord_Gareth
2011-06-24, 10:30 PM
I'm not cynical enough yet to believe that racism and ignorance are endorsed by gods. Smiting is divine. It does not come from studying weaknesses or raw hatred. It is a god-given power. And I don't want to play a D&D game where the gods give you the power to harm another just because of their creature type.

Moradin, Gruumsh, Corellan Latherian, Garl Glittergold, Kurtulmansk, Lloth, and Pelor would all love words with you.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 10:34 PM
Moradin, Gruumsh, Corellan Latherian, Garl Glittergold, Kurtulmansk, Lloth, and Pelor would all love words with you.

I know it exists. I just don't like it.

Lord_Gareth
2011-06-24, 10:36 PM
I know it exists. I just don't like it.

The point is that not only is it endorsed by the D&D gods, it's common. Dead common. Common as dirt, in fact.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 10:40 PM
The point is that not only is it endorsed by the D&D gods, it's common. Dead common. Common as dirt, in fact.

Fair point. But not for every creature type. I may be wrong, but I don't believe there's a god who wants all magical beasts destroyed, for example, or a single god who hates all dragons (Bahamut and Tiamat go after each other, true, but not after their own), and though there may be gods of the hunt, I think encouraging hunting and encouraging the slaughter of every animal on the planet are different.

Besides, the class doesn't have a divine bent. So the Smite won't work. Though I know that wasn't the point of your post.

Seerow
2011-06-24, 10:41 PM
Moradin, Gruumsh, Corellan Latherian, Garl Glittergold, Kurtulmansk, Lloth, and Pelor would all love words with you.

In addition to that, I was using smite as a general term for a limited use ability to increase attack/damage against a specific set of opponents. If Smite has too much divine connotation for you, call it something else. Point is, make part of the hit/damage boost active rather than passive.


No, someone with a x4 multiplier would get a x5 multiplier. To the bonus damage only.


Okay, I just read your edited description, and that seems to work. Though honestly, rather than going with that clunky and semi-effective change, why not just full on increase the crit multiplier by 1 against your hated enemy? ie rather than having to say this only applies to your hated enemy bonus blah blah blah, your crits just hit that much harder against hated enemies. With the example axe, you have a x4 multiplier rather than a x2.


Becoming naturally familiar with your enemy's tools over the course of studying them doesn't necessarily mean you'll use them. It just means you're not stupid.


So now every other martial character out there is stupid for not being familiar with all the weapons their enemies use? Proficiency comes from having training with using a weapon. There is no reason for a racist to be training with weapons that they would deem inferior. They would however have learned to better defend themselves against such weapons, and that is represented in the bonus AC and DR.


Instead of making them need to hide, I gave them the power to take on a whole village by themselves. Seemed appropriate.


The DC on that new ability is stupid high. 20+favored enemy bonus, where your favored enemy bonus is a minimum of 22, and as high as 26? At 10+favored enemy bonus, it would be closer to normal, but still an abnormal save. 10+racist level+stat mod would be an actually normal saving throw.


Also, the taking on an aspect of your hated enemy STILL makes no sense at all. Again, there are prestige classes dedicated to emulating a certain races that don't get the sort of thing you're giving out to someone who supposedly hates them.

The huge morale penalty + stun aura is already more than enough to make a good capstone. Even if you cut the hated enemy bonuses in half like I suggested it would still be a solid capstone.

Shadow Lord
2011-06-24, 10:41 PM
The point is that not only is it endorsed by the D&D gods, it's common. Dead common. Common as dirt, in fact.

Mistaken you are. Recent studies have shown that it's actually commoner than Dirt.

Also, Smiting isn't necessarily God Given. You can just keep the effect and change the Fluff.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-24, 10:51 PM
In addition to that, I was using smite as a general term for a limited use ability to increase attack/damage against a specific set of opponents. If Smite has too much divine connotation for you, call it something else. Point is, make part of the hit/damage boost active rather than passive.



Okay, I just read your edited description, and that seems to work. Though honestly, rather than going with that clunky and semi-effective change, why not just full on increase the crit multiplier by 1 against your hated enemy? ie rather than having to say this only applies to your hated enemy bonus blah blah blah, your crits just hit that much harder against hated enemies. With the example axe, you have a x4 multiplier rather than a x2.



So now every other martial character out there is stupid for not being familiar with all the weapons their enemies use? Proficiency comes from having training with using a weapon. There is no reason for a racist to be training with weapons that they would deem inferior. They would however have learned to better defend themselves against such weapons, and that is represented in the bonus AC and DR.



The DC on that new ability is stupid high. 20+favored enemy bonus, where your favored enemy bonus is a minimum of 22, and as high as 26? At 10+favored enemy bonus, it would be closer to normal, but still an abnormal save. 10+racist level+stat mod would be an actually normal saving throw.


Also, the taking on an aspect of your hated enemy STILL makes no sense at all. Again, there are prestige classes dedicated to emulating a certain races that don't get the sort of thing you're giving out to someone who supposedly hates them.

The huge morale penalty + stun aura is already more than enough to make a good capstone. Even if you cut the hated enemy bonuses in half like I suggested it would still be a solid capstone.

Making part of the hit/damage boost active rather than passive doesn't fit with the class. I have studied this race so extensively that I know how to hit where it hurts, but instead of doing it all the time I can only do it twice per encounter? From a balance standpoint, it might seem iffy, but remember that if you let these creatures get away, you SoD yourself. It's very important that you kill them when you see them.

Increasing the critical hit multiplier of the weapon would indicate familiarity with the weapon itself, not with the enemy. Adding an extra 24 damage is good enough, don't need to add 24 damage AND an extra dice of damage/enhancement bonus/Str mod/Power Attack, etc.

The DC on the saving throw to kill yourself if you let creatures escape at that point is 20+your Charisma modifier, and you have a +3 Will save from the class. The DC of the stun aura is necessary, and as it only affects one creature type rather than everything you encounter, I don't see why I should make it the standard DC formula.

Eh, I guess you're right about the proficiency though. I'll remove it.

The ability to take something you hate and use it against your enemies is helpful. Besides, against any other creature, you're a fighter without bonus feats. Studying the creatures attacks and abilities to a ridiculous extent should provide you some insight on how to fight like them as well as fight against them.

Lord Raziere
2011-06-24, 10:51 PM
The point is that not only is it endorsed by the D&D gods, it's common. Dead common. Common as dirt, in fact.

yea....just one more reason that if I were to make a webcomic about DnD....it would showcase a rorschach-esque world of "good"-aligned racists, monsters who know that they are cannon fodder and so resort to kamikaze tactics to take out the pcs with them, and of course the adventurers themselves with their constant killing of the monstrous races, perpetuate a dark cycle of revenge and retaliation going on forever just for greed and battle-lust while the npcs hate the cps for just generally being pcs

Falin
2011-06-25, 12:20 AM
The DC of the stun aura is necessary, and as it only affects one creature type rather than everything you encounter, I don't see why I should make it the standard DC formula.

Is it really? Letís take a look. Assume you're favored enemy type is dragon. An old gold dragon (CR 21) gets a will save bonus of +23 which means at the upper and lower end of the favored enemy spectrum they need to make a critical success on their save.

Very old CR 22 will +26, at the upper end they still need a critical success, and at the lower end they need an 18.

Ancient CR 24 will +28, needs a 16 on the upper end and a 14 on the lower.

Wyrm CR 25 will +31, needs a 15 at the upper end and 11 at the lower end.

Great wyrm CR 27 will +33, needs and 11 at the upper end, and a 9 at the lower end.

Verdict, one of the most iconic and powerful creatures in D&D needs to be seven hit dice into epic to stand a fighting chance resist the capstone ability of a slightly optimized raciest on a regular basis, which theyíll need because they need to make that same save every round until they fail at which point they donít get a chance to save again and basically have to stand still while the racist kills them. Itís way op.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-06-25, 12:22 AM
Is it really? Letís take a look. Assume you're favored enemy type is dragon. An old gold dragon (CR 21) gets a will save bonus of +23 which means at the upper and lower end of the favored enemy spectrum they need to make a critical success on their save.

Very old CR 22 will +26, at the upper end they still need a critical success, and at the lower end they need an 18.

Ancient CR 24 will +28, needs a 16 on the upper end and a 14 on the lower.

Wyrm CR 25 will +31, needs a 15 at the upper end and 11 at the lower end.

Great wyrm CR 27 will +33, needs and 11 at the upper end, and a 9 at the lower end.

Verdict, one of the most iconic and powerful creatures in D&D needs to be seven hit dice into epic to stand a fighting chance resist the capstone ability of a slightly optimized raciest on a regular basis, which theyíll need because they need to make that same save every round until they fail at which point they donít get a chance to save again and basically have to stand still while the racist kills them. Itís way op.

Bolded part: dragons have more HD than CR.

Falin
2011-06-25, 12:30 AM
Bolded part: dragons have more HD than CR.

*snap* that's right I always get that confused 42 hit dice into epic. Thanks for the catch. But you get the idea, a creature that's meant to be fought by level 27 characters (and is of a type that is notorious for being under CRd) is pretty much the only thing that isn't easily taken down by a non-epic class with relative ease. Yeah it can only be used on one type of creature. But that type of creature literally canít win.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-25, 12:39 AM
*snap* that's right I always get that confused 42 hit dice into epic. Thanks for the catch. But you get the idea, a creature that's meant to be fought by level 27 characters (and is of a type that is notorious for being under CRd) is pretty much the only thing that isn't easily taken down by a non-epic class with relative ease. Yeah it can only be used on one type of creature. But that type of creature literally canít win.

And why should it? If you're going to spend your life attempting to exterminate every type of one creature, to the point where you give up everything else, and if a creature gets away, you have an almost irresistible urge to take your own life, you should be able to kill them all.

If it's you against an entire settlement of dragons, dwarves, or giants, you should be the victor. Even though you can only attack one of them at a time, and they'll all pile on you. It's for your protection as much as your vendetta. They'll come after you for revenge. You need to be ready.

And again, this is all very dependent on the DM. If you only fight a dragon every once in a while, but you kill that dragon well, good for you. See how useful you'll be against a solar, a demon, the tarrasque, etc.

Falin
2011-06-25, 01:58 AM
And why should it? If you're going to spend your life attempting to exterminate every type of one creature, to the point where you give up everything else, and if a creature gets away, you have an almost irresistible urge to take your own life, you should be able to kill them all.

If it's you against an entire settlement of dragons, dwarves, or giants, you should be the victor. Even though you can only attack one of them at a time, and they'll all pile on you. It's for your protection as much as your vendetta. They'll come after you for revenge. You need to be ready.

And again, this is all very dependent on the DM. If you only fight a dragon every once in a while, but you kill that dragon well, good for you. See how useful you'll be against a solar, a demon, the tarrasque, etc.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've all heard the old "Well the flaws make up for it being stupidly powerful" argument before. But the fact is it doesn't work any better for you than it does anyone else. There's a difference between making a character class niche but powerful, and just breaking it over your knee.

Perhaps I'd be more forgiving if it was a singe type of dragon, or just true dragons. But it's not, it's an entire type of creature. And it can be a type of creature that you will likely run into allot. Let's remember that humanoid (human) is also a type covered by the ranger's favored enemy class.

But even if it were, the fact of the matter is that broken, is broken, is broken. If you can't make a class without breaking it one way or the other then the class should probably go onto the scrap pile. But that's hardly the problem. The problem is that your capstone literally makes it impossible for an entire type's worth of creatures a complete non-threat, and since all this character's plot hooks are going to be revolving around hunting down and killing their hated enemy I hardly see "It depends on the GM" being a valid excuse. Yeah it does depend on the GM, but to begin with the only GMs who would allow a class that breaks the game so hard are the inexperienced one's who don't know what they're doing, and the ones who fully intend to never let you into eyeshot of your favored enemy.

Without the capstone it's a pretty solid class, a limited sure but you get crazy damage and bonuses when you're in your element. At level ten though, you're no less limited, but now you break the game when you're in your element. Itís not even hard, you literally just have to take 10 levels of ranger and choose the same favored enemy each time. Itís not like the wizard where you actually have to know what youíre doing to really break things.

TL:DR: No one should have it that easy in any situation.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-25, 02:04 AM
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've all heard the old "Well the flaws make up for it being stupidly powerful" argument before. But the fact is it doesn't work any better for you than it does anyone else. There's a difference between making a character class niche but powerful, and just breaking it over your knee.

Perhaps I'd be more forgiving if it was a singe type of dragon, or just true dragons. But it's not, it's an entire type of creature. And it can be a type of creature that you will likely run into allot. Let's remember that humanoid (human) is also a type covered by the ranger's favored enemy class.

But even if it were, the fact of the matter is that broken, is broken, is broken. If you can't make a class without breaking it one way or the other then the class should probably go onto the scrap pile. But that's hardly the problem. The problem is that your capstone literally makes it impossible for an entire type's worth of creatures a complete non-threat, and since all this character's plot hooks are going to be revolving around hunting down and killing their hated enemy I hardly see "It depends on the GM" being a valid excuse. Yeah it does depend on the GM, but to begin with the only GMs who would allow a class that breaks the game so hard are the inexperienced one's who don't know what they're doing, and the ones who fully intend to never let you into eyeshot of your favored enemy.

Without the capstone it's a pretty solid class, a limited sure but you get crazy damage and bonuses when you're in your element. At level ten though, you're no less limited, but now you break the game when you're in your element. Itís not even hard, you literally just have to take 10 levels of ranger and choose the same favored enemy each time. Itís not like the wizard where you actually have to know what youíre doing to really break things.

TL:DR: No one should have it that easy in any situation.

Well, I don't know what I should do then. I made a capstone for camoflauge and hunting the creature (Shapechange at will into a creature of the type), but no one liked it.

Now I've made it so you can handle an entire army of them yourself, and you think it's broken. So what would you suggest then?

Edit: Changed the Capstone to give the racist power from killing, and only affecting her ability to kill others. She is now able to fight longer, and kill more and more of her enemies, but she is completely useless against anything other than her hated race.

Falin
2011-06-25, 02:18 AM
That works much better. Migh apply it to only damage, but that's just what the name seems to imply.

Edit: Also, it wasn't just that you could handle an army. It's that it made it trival to face down an entire army of epic level creatures of a certian type.

NeoSeraphi
2011-06-25, 02:25 AM
That works much better. Migh apply it to only damage, but that's just what the name seems to imply.

Edit: Also, it wasn't just that you could handle an army. It's that it made it trival to face down an entire army of epic level creatures of a certian type.

It applies to everything. The more you kill, the better you are at dodging, at hitting, at shrugging off damage. You go into a complete frenzy and nothing stands in your way.

Falin
2011-06-25, 02:31 AM
Alrighty then.

DracoDei
2011-06-25, 11:14 PM
Normally I would post a link to something (of mine as it happens) that is VAGUELY related to this... unfortunately the work in question is part of a larger work, so people following the link would be confused to say the least, so I am going to repost here in a spoiler.
Note that strong followers of this goddess, let alone actual clerics would be mortal enemies with most or all members of this class (exceptions might include those focused on Outsider[Evil]).

Allurehn
Neutral Good goddess
Portfolio: Heritage, Lineage, Romance, Sex, Contentment in Singleness, Fertility, Home, Community
Domains: Healing, Romance/Spouse Selection, Gestation, Sexual Pleasure (Yes, go ahead and raid the BoEF, just keep it to stuff Dr Ruth would have approved of).
Major teachings of Allurehn:


Successful marriage is a treasure that most should actively seek after, unless a clear reason exists to the contrary. The search may be harder for some than others, and while there is more than one "perfect match" for almost all individuals, one should never compromise by settling for less than what can honestly be expected to produce mutual happiness with only a very large effort (for even the best matches need constant effort to keep the fires of dedication from dying down, but anything less than that requires even more). The concept of a follower of Allurehn taking a vow of celibacy would be ridiculous in the extreme although they are known to actively forgo marriage (at least for a time) if they have a long-term mission that would not be compatible with that.
Support of ones spouse and children, second only to a unique need for the greater good that one may be uniquely placed to fill. This includes seeing love between spouses as a commitment, in addition to the meaning of that word as an emotion. Emotions ebb and flow; dedication should not. This means seeking to build a relationship regardless of what it is returning at that time.
Sexual faithfulness to one's spouse in both body and mind. This includes both chastity before marriage, and the seeking of fulfillment for both of you as a high goal after marriage. In case it isn't obvious, clerics of Allurehn are experts on sex (including foreplay), and their senior members can generally outdo succubae and incubi on knowledge of the subject.
Protection of Good races/nations/peoples and their settlements and territories.
Destruction of Evil races that they might not dominate numerically or territorially over the Neutral and Good.
An understanding of the goals of your forbearers and, if reasonable in one's specific case, following through on those goals unless you find them to be clearly misguided. This includes caring for your parents, and grandparents in their old age, both so they may continue to apply their knowledge, wisdom, and experience to the things they hold dear, and so that none may have to be TOO cautious for fear of becoming impoverished if old age weakens them more quickly than might be expected, some harm befalls them in them in their vigor for pursuing their goals, or if they are gifted with a great number of years beyond the norm.
The counterpart to the above is to consider the good of those who come after you, including all sapient races but with an especial focus on ones own bloodline.
(This next one is likely to be the source of conflict and ire for any who do not understand it (and even a few who do) in many campaigns/settings.)
Improvement of the bloodlines of all races, both in preserving diversity, and in encouraging the weeding out of traits that are unarguably strongly negative and promotion of those that are unarguably strongly positive. NOTE HOWEVER it is NOT PERMISSIBLE to kill, or otherwise hinder from marriage or reproduction any sapient being against their will to prevent them from spreading less than ideal traits (and her clerics generally support such crimes to be punished in accordance with the principle "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"). The exceptions to this are races that are racially (NOT CULTURALLY) Evil (the extremely rare non-evil members of such races are exempt from that, and in-fact are often considered highly valuable members of the breeding population), and individuals who are EXTREMELY deficient, compared to the rest of their race, in fundamental capacity to understand the concepts involved in this (her clerics frequently serve communities by providing magical tattoos or piercings that permanently prevent reproduction, but not sexual enjoyment for those who are profoundly retarded or insane due to heritable birth defects).

She encourages an honest self-assessment guided by knowledge from experts (such as many of her clerics) of ones own heritable traits. Those who honestly find themselves to be of strongly below average heritable traits (even if they have risen above those limitations by means of dedication, determination, or sheer luck) are encouraged to use contraceptive methods when they marry (a treasure they should still seek, even if it might be harder to find someone who is willing to not have any children of their own). If such a couple is capable of supporting them, they are especially welcomed to adopt orphans or unwanted children. On the other end of the spectrum, Allurehn encourages her more naturally gifted followers not to be selfish towards future generations by avoiding marriage or children even for the sake of their talents. This includes even those whose gifts are confounded by the situation they were born into, injury, disease, or other misfortune.

For this reason she also encourages the voluntary acquisition/spread of the Good-Aligned strains of lycanthropy, to individuals who are either of already of the same alignment as the theranthrope strain they are acquiring or who are looking to make a definitive change in their path (such as neutral individuals who wish they had the moral fiber to consistently be more selfless or evildoers seeking redemption.). Similarly, Allurehn also encourages young dragons to take a "training spouse" from among the shorter-lived races while they are carefully selecting a draconic mate, since a good dating/courtship sequence (of multiple possible matches) for a dragon can last longer than a human lifetime. Having a "Monogamous Fling" in the mean time is good both for the dragon to get practical experience in being a good spouse without getting locked into anything for an especially long time by draconic standards, and for the bloodlines of the other local sapient. (See my Wing Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3788332&postcount=9) entry for more details on this practice).

Clerics of Allurehn are always watchful for those would use bad means to good ends when it comes to trying to improve intelligent races. Mepholk clerics are especially so among their own kind, considering their ability to over-right human bloodlines to be a gift from Allurehn and knowing the importance of keeping it from being misinterpreted by either Mepholk or humans.



Typical Followers: Any race, but especially Mepholk. While she has followers of almost every class, rangers serving her are of especial interest since they often make it a goal to thin the numbers of or even locally exterminate a racially evil race.

Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-03, 04:21 PM
I think that this class should have a nongood or evil prerequisite.
think about it:

PH1- Pg.106-107

Player's handbook on alignments-


ďGoodĒ implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the
dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices
to help others.

I cannot see anyone with "respect for life" trying to kill every creature of a certain subtype.


ďEvilĒ implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others.-

That seems more like it.


Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without
qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing
for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.

Being good or evil can be a conscious choice, as with the paladin
who attempts to live up to her ideals or the evil cleric who causes
pain and terror to emulate his god. For most people, though, being
good or evil is an attitude that one recognizes but does not choose.
Being neutral on the goodĖevil axis usually represents a lack of
commitment one way or the other, but for some it represents a
positive commitment to a balanced view. While acknowledging that
good and evil are objective states, not just opinions, these folk
maintain that a balance between the two is the proper place for
people, or at least for them.


Even if an elf ranger tries to kill all orcs on his plane and does it for reasons he believes are right doesn't mean he is good or neutral.if he attempts genocide against orcs it makes him evil.

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Occasional Sage
2011-07-03, 04:32 PM
This thread needs more ponies.

Friendship is the real magic. Nobody needs to hate!

Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-03, 04:36 PM
I think that smite should be in this class... with some changes.
it should be a morale bonus not divine and it should be called "Hateful Smite".
it is a smite out of the racists own hate, not divine energy.

Nero24200
2011-07-03, 04:44 PM
I'd probably add "Evil" as a prerequisite since genocide is one of the things specifically listed as being an evil trait.

Doktor Per
2011-07-03, 04:51 PM
This class is quite literally I want to be Fantasy Hitler. So you get +22 on your diplomacy checks to convince all the people in the city to exterminate the gnomes/orcs/whatever and still get to act as if you're the good guy. Great!

The class completely trivializes the race you're hating on, and/or your party when you're fighting them, making it impossible for the DM to actually let you encounter this race if you and your friends want to have fun at the table.

DracoDei
2011-07-03, 05:32 PM
I think that this class should have a nongood or evil prerequisite.
think about it:

PH1- Pg.106-107

Player's handbook on alignments-



I cannot see anyone with "respect for life" trying to kill every creature of a certain subtype.

-

That seems more like it.

A pity this board doesn't allow nested quotes.
If this is what you were asking me about in PM, then I think you didn't read the tenants of Allurehn closely enough.
In short, I disagree with your premises. To me, respect for life means respecting all life, and the best way to do that for a heroic character is often to stand atop a mountain of steaming corpses of those with no respect for the lives of the innocent. Capture and imprisonment/formal execution is superior in most cases, but hardly logistically viable on the sorts of scales we are talking about here.
Now if you happen to run into the one in a million exceptions (and yes, I use the alignment lines as written in the MM), among an evil race, yes, you should spare them. In fact, you should probably even help them out very strongly. This class doesn't allow for that, and in that extent it is morally flawed to me.
The key point to remember is that IRL "Always Lawful Evil" etc don't exist. You can argue about the validity of the concepts of Good and Evil as absolutes all you like, but human beings are not defined in their morality by their genetics. Ergo, genocide is inexcusable IRL. In a fantasy world where genetics DOES very strongly bias morality for some intelligent species, this becomes highly questionable.
In short, to me Familicide on black dragons was a basically good act rendered evil by bad motives, and any non-evil targets would have fallen under "unfortunate, unavoidable, collateral damage".
This is NOT to say that this class might not need the restrictions you mention, since the fluff implies blind hatred, rather than a reasoned removal of a type of threat. But with a few SMALL tweaks to the fluff, and even smaller ones to the crunch, then yes, I can totally see a Paladin/Ranger taking levels in this class with the favored enemy "Outsider(Demon)".

I think that smite should be in this class... with some changes.
it should be a morale bonus not divine and it should be called "Hateful Smite".
it is a smite out of the racists own hate, not divine energy.
I think they both could make perfect sense. There is a god out there that is willing to empower almost any of these, and that is without getting into the "I am a cleric of a concept" type of generic divine energy.

Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-03, 05:44 PM
Yes, that is true most characters show the good in them by killing evil.
I now understand your view....

Crasical
2011-07-03, 05:48 PM
People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent[...]


From the SRD. I won't make any judgement on how you run alignment in your game, as it's a subjective thing and should really be tailored from group to group, but these examples seem to imply that all Racists are evil-aligned in a game that follows standard definitions of morality.

Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-03, 05:49 PM
these examples seem to imply that all Racists are evil-aligned in a game that follows standard definitions of morality.

Thanks you.
In book of exalted deeds it covers my point of view too.

NeoSeraphi
2011-07-05, 05:59 AM
Added non-good to the prerequisites. Still not going to add a Smite of any kind to this class, because even though there are gods that would provide power, I don't see this class as the type that requires being tied down to a god.

Lord_Gareth
2011-07-05, 08:53 AM
Added non-good to the prerequisites. Still not going to add a Smite of any kind to this class, because even though there are gods that would provide power, I don't see this class as the type that requires being tied down to a god.

Again: keep the mechanic, change the name, call it a day. Works out great.

NeoSeraphi
2011-07-05, 11:52 AM
Added Strike of Death, the racist's trump card, Smite-like ability.

Amechra
2011-07-23, 09:45 PM
Hey, I remember doing something kinda like this...
We even have similar fluff...

You are welcome to raid my Unrepentant Pact-Bound Hunter for stuff (for example... you get 3/4 your Favored Enemy bonus against allies to that creature type. Why? You HATE ENOUGH!)

HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197033)

The Dark Fiddler
2011-07-24, 05:42 PM
Fun fact: it seems that you're forced to kill yourself if an ally kills a member of your hated species before you get a chance at them.

Also, the DC to not kill yourself, being based on character level, not class level, it probably going to be too high.

NeoSeraphi
2011-07-24, 05:53 PM
Fun fact: it seems that you're forced to kill yourself if an ally kills a member of your hated species before you get a chance at them.

Also, the DC to not kill yourself, being based on character level, not class level, it probably going to be too high.

I edited the code of conduct to reflect this. The DC is supposed to be that high. Basically, unless you find a way to buff your Will save up, you're going to die the first time your character willingly violates the code, but more often than not, it will simply be something she cannot control and as long as she put forth as much effort as possible, then she would not be required to save, as she was not willing to let her prey escape.

Showzilla
2011-09-10, 02:32 AM
hmm, i cant believe I'm saying this...I like the Racist....the concept is similiar to a PrC for the knight remake of mine called the Templar....they are to knights what Berserkers are to Barbarians and they gain an additional dice damage against creatures deemed heathens. The justification for their powers are "everybody of a different race/religion/outlook attacks us on sight and then gets whiney when we fight back and whoop their ass...**** this retaliation, strike first before they strike us!!!!!!"

Qwertystop
2011-09-10, 07:59 PM
Just so you know, Umbridge (in the book at least) said:

"Filthy half-breeds! Uncontrolled animals!"
No "disgusting" in there.
(or we might be thinking of a different scene, or you might be going by the movie, which I haven't watched)

NeoSeraphi
2011-09-10, 08:50 PM
Just so you know, Umbridge (in the book at least) said:

No "disgusting" in there.
(or we might be thinking of a different scene, or you might be going by the movie, which I haven't watched)

Meh. I'm pretty sure the movie said "Disgusting", but I'm sure Rowling will forgive me for misquoting her. *too lazy to edit over something like this*

Deviston
2011-09-25, 09:49 PM
This class is quite literally I want to be Fantasy Hitler. So you get +22 on your diplomacy checks to convince all the people in the city to exterminate the gnomes/orcs/whatever and still get to act as if you're the good guy. Great!

The class completely trivializes the race you're hating on, and/or your party when you're fighting them, making it impossible for the DM to actually let you encounter this race if you and your friends want to have fun at the table.

{Scrubbed}

My favorite thing about this class... polymorph other + mirror = easy day. You know what... a basic illusion spell + mirror = easy day now that I think of it. I HOPE a played in my campaign picks this. Having him reroll because he killed himself within 20 minutes of taking this class will make me rofl.

channingman
2011-09-26, 01:18 AM
2 things I'd suggest:

The bonus to diplomacy to convince people to join the cause should be halved. You might be able to convince most people that you're not worth punishing, but to convince them to go kill these things is a bit much for me (Or maybe I'm wrong. The DC should just be higher, no? So I guess that makes up for it.)

Also, if there isn't already, the racist should be required to attack members of their hated race *first* in an encounter. So if there's a pixie over there that's somewhat annoying to most, but you hate Fay, you'll ignore the Massive ogre that's killing everyone to go kill that stupid pixie.

Morph Bark
2011-09-26, 08:34 AM
Taking this to its furthest-end conclusion, you will have a world with only humans, animals, undead, possibly some constructs, and creatures from the furthest places of the planes (aberrations from the Far Realms and demons from the deeper parts of the Abyss, as well as those living on the seventh layer of Celestia) left.

Humans because so very few seem to really hate them (half-anything is usually half-human too), animals because they only have Int 1 or 2 and therefore usually aren't smart enough to inspire such dedicated hate towards them (though accidents and phobias-turned-to-hatred happen), undead because anything can become undead, constructs because any inanimate object could potentially be made into a construct and the latter because they're practically unreachable.

Sounds very much like a post-apocalyptic world and an interesting premise for a setting. :smalltongue:

LibrarianHuntar
2012-01-21, 09:09 PM
To copy Redcloak, since this person hates all forms of the species they hate equally, this should be renamed Speciesist

Deepbluediver
2012-01-21, 10:28 PM
Slaughter Them All (Ex): The racist is not worried about killing one or two powerful creatures. She wants to end an entire species. And that requires staying power. Whenever a racist kills a creature of her hated type, she receives the benefits of the cure serious wounds spell, as if cast by a 15th level cleric, and her Favored Enemy bonus for her hated creature type increases by 2. This increase in bonus lasts for 1 hour, stacks with itself, and whenever she kills another hated creature, she resets the duration. (Killed a creature 10 minutes ago, her FE is +2, she kills another, her FE is +4 and the new +4 lasts for a full hour)

I like this ability, and since it only works against one type and has a limited duration I don't think it's as broken as other existing spells, but I just worry that players will find a way to abuse anything without a cap. Maybe make it so that the target you kill has to have at least half as many hit dice as you to get the bonus, or you cap the bonus at equal to your character level.

As it stands, if you get going inside a city of low-level NPCs, you very quickly get into insta-kill/nigh-unstoppable territory. For example, work your way through a few dozen commoners, and then you're ready to basically assassinate an entire castle full of guards, nobles, etc.

So I guess it depends on what level of power you are aiming for. Where you intending this to be tier 2, or something less?

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-21, 11:42 PM
I like this ability, and since it only works against one type and has a limited duration I don't think it's as broken as other existing spells, but I just worry that players will find a way to abuse anything without a cap. Maybe make it so that the target you kill has to have at least half as many hit dice as you to get the bonus, or you cap the bonus at equal to your character level.

As it stands, if you get going inside a city of low-level NPCs, you very quickly get into insta-kill/nigh-unstoppable territory. For example, work your way through a few dozen commoners, and then you're ready to basically assassinate an entire castle full of guards, nobles, etc.

So I guess it depends on what level of power you are aiming for. Where you intending this to be tier 2, or something less?

Prestige classes don't use the tier system. They occasionally use the + or - tier system, but they don't belong on the tier list themselves.

The point of the class is to slaughter an entire species. Leave none alive. You want to walk into a settlement of humans and walk out with every man woman and child dead in the streets. So yeah, that bonus is supposed to get rather ridiculous. However it is still, like all Favored Enemy bonuses (and the majority of the SRD ranger class features) based entirely on how much your DM is willing to cooperate with your background. (If your DM doesn't want you to kill a whole village, he'll include some other races or have the captain of the guard be an extremely powerful creature of a different race, so you'll at least have a challenge instead of a slaughter)

Deepbluediver
2012-01-22, 12:14 AM
Prestige classes don't use the tier system. They occasionally use the + or - tier system, but they don't belong on the tier list themselves.

The point of the class is to slaughter an entire species. Leave none alive. You want to walk into a settlement of humans and walk out with every man woman and child dead in the streets. So yeah, that bonus is supposed to get rather ridiculous. However it is still, like all Favored Enemy bonuses (and the majority of the SRD ranger class features) based entirely on how much your DM is willing to cooperate with your background. (If your DM doesn't want you to kill a whole village, he'll include some other races or have the captain of the guard be an extremely powerful creature of a different race, so you'll at least have a challenge instead of a slaughter)

I was really just thinking in terms of game-breaking/ending potential.

I guess a DM could ban this class outright, but if they let you start taking it, and you pick some relatively common race (like humans or elves) it get's very hard to build any kind of settlement/town/city that doesn't invite ridiculous mass slaughter.
But I guess that's what you where going for, so uhm.....well done?

On the other side of things, this is great if you want to set up an entire nation as a bunch of murderous xenophobes to cause trouble for the party.

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-22, 12:25 AM
I guess a DM could ban this class outright, but if they let you start taking it, and you pick some relatively common race (like humans or elves) it get's very hard to build any kind of settlement/town/city that doesn't invite ridiculous mass slaughter.
But I guess that's what you where going for, so uhm.....well done?


I am aware that it is a bit of an odd premise, but it is one that I believe I met in the end, so I'm happy with it. Thank you. :smallsmile:

Worira
2012-01-22, 12:29 AM
I... what? This isn't even remotely playable.

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-22, 12:32 AM
I... what? This isn't even remotely playable.

Indeed, in a normal game, this character would suffer greatly against any creature that was not his favored enemy. However, it's not like an SRD ranger is that effective against normal enemies anyway (not without Swift Hunter, at least).

It's a class I made for flavor, and nothing more.

Worira
2012-01-22, 12:34 AM
No, I mean you literally cannot play this. It's like the Paladin of Slaughter only worse.

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-22, 12:38 AM
No, I mean you literally cannot play this. It's like the Paladin of Slaughter only worse.

Hm? What are you talking about? You mean the code of conduct, or what? :smallconfused: And it's not meant to actually see any action at a table, I was just trying to make a xenophobic prestige class that capitalizes on Favored Enemy bonuses.

Are you saying that you have a problem with overly Chaotic Evil characters?

Worira
2012-01-22, 12:48 AM
Yes, I mean the code of conduct. This is a class that, if it walks into a town full of large men with pointy sticks and mighty wizards, will immediately try to stab the mayor in the face if it turns out he's a half-orc or whatever. In front of everyone. At level 1. And if it doesn't, it has to kill itself. That's not racism, that's just idiocy.

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-22, 12:51 AM
Yes, I mean the code of conduct. This is a class that, if it walks into a town full of large men with pointy sticks and mighty wizards, will immediately try to stab the mayor in the face if it turns out he's a half-orc or whatever. In front of everyone. At level 1. And if it doesn't, it has to kill itself. That's not racism, that's just idiocy.

By level 1, you mean level 6, since it's a prestige class. And yes, it is meant to portray racism on a completely different, semi-psychotic level. What's wrong with that? (It's certainly not the only class that involves a not completely sane character)

Dragon Star
2012-01-22, 07:33 PM
Yes, I mean the code of conduct. This is a class that, if it walks into a town full of large men with pointy sticks and mighty wizards, will immediately try to stab the mayor in the face if it turns out he's a half-orc or whatever. In front of everyone. At level 1. And if it doesn't, it has to kill itself. That's not racism, that's just idiocy.

Well, honestly, how likely is it that a PC will play this? As far as I can tell it works best as a (very evil) NPC. And a DM can just say that the NPC somehow survived years of needing to horribly murder innocents even in front of others. And even if it was used by a player, how exactly does that make a racist any differnt from a normal PC? You know, the people you can always find by following the screaming and/or fire?

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-22, 07:39 PM
A racist can dip warblade and gain the Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver, spending cross-class skill points to keep her Concentration ranks maxed. The DC of her saving throw to resist killing herself is 10+her character level+her Charisma modifier. Her Concentration check is 1d20+3+her character level+her Constitution modifier, and can be improved easily. So if you really want to, you never have to worry about the code of conduct.

IronFist
2013-08-03, 07:22 PM
That's not racism, that's just idiocy.

Well, racism is quite idiotic, isn't it?

sengmeng
2013-08-04, 04:51 PM
This guy hates his enemy more than Hitler hated Jews, more than Blade hates vampires, and more than the Klan hates black people. For instance, they are all capable of talking to their targets without killing them on sight. Hitler didn't jump out of the stands at the Berlin Olympics and try to murder Jesse Owens.

Aside from that, you might as well give him the ability to simply repel all creatures of his hated type, because after one or two slaughters at most, the DM will stop having you encounter them. Of course, you've as much as stated it isn't meant to be played, so I guess it's meant to be laughed at? I don't think it's funny though.

Debihuman
2013-08-05, 07:04 AM
Frankly I see this as a sort of kamikazi-type PrC. Why just kill yourself when you can take some of those you hate with you? Bombers do this. I could see a crazed alchemist doing this.

While there are real world similarities, invoking Godwin's law tends to derail the conversation. Hiring thugs and others to follow your orders and kill for you doesn't disqualify, it just gives you plausible deniability until your evil overlord plans are discovered. However, the ability to acquire said thugs and followers should be a part of the prerequisites.

In battle, this leads to a scorched earth policy (taking anything of value that might be useful to the enemy while attacking or withdrawing). These tactics include such things as burning crops, slaughtering livestock, and poisoning wells. Obviously, doing all these things can't adequately accomplished by one person quickly since this class doesn't add an levels of spellcasting.

While I don't really see myself allowing this class for the PCs (who should by definition be some sort of "Good" guys), this makes for fine villainy.

Just a few thoughts in the Racist Orator as my comments are in red.


Racist Orator (Ex): The racist is not necessarily evil. Her crusade must be done. This sounds like the racist should acquire a compulsion disorder. If he doesn't find a suitable target within a given period of time, there should be negative consequences.

She is able to sway others to her cause easily, because her convictions are so pure and raw. This captures the charismatic leadership to a tea. As a result of this ability, the racist should require a Charisma 13 to enter the class.

Starting at level 3, the racist gains a bonus equal to her Favored Enemy bonus on Diplomacy checks made to convince others to spare her of criminal charges for slaughtering a creature of her hated creature type. She also receives this bonus on Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate checks made to convince others to help her hunt creatures of her hated creature type. If she successfully makes such a check, all persons she convinced cannot have their attitude towards any creature of the hated creature type lowered by mundane or magical means to less than hostile for 24 hours.

Debby

sengmeng
2013-08-05, 10:37 AM
I don't think Godwin's law applies when the subject is racism; there are legitimate reasons to bring up Hitler in that case.

Besides, this class is more like Aquaman.

"We someone to talk to fish? Call Aquaman!"

"We need to kill orcs? Call Orc-hater!"