View Full Version : (D&D 3.5) Is this fair? Wargaming + D&D rules.

Lord Loss
2011-06-27, 08:31 AM
I'm going to be running a game where four players each create an army of D&D 3.5 creatures and characters. There will be a variety of battles during the course of the mini-campaign, each faction having a specific objective and victory condition.

The players will buy units with assigned points (the higher the CR of the creature, the more points it will cost). Also, I'm going to assign a number of gold pieces to arm soldiers (including a General that functions like a PC), buy constructs and build a stronghold.

Do the following rules work? If they don't how do I make things more balanced?

Creature CR/Cost (in points)


Players will be given a number of points to purchase their units with at the beginning (I want to keep things balanced and manageable for a Real-Life game). I'm not sure how many to assign, I was thinking anywhere between 500 and 2000 points.

2011-06-27, 11:45 AM
Well, try dividing all the points by 5 to streamline the math. Actually never mind, because you have another problem. Difficulty of a fight is generally considered to double every 2 CRs, not every one.
That means that theoretically your progression should go something like:

You MIGHT also consider basing it on ECL (with either reduced LAs or LAs counting as commoner levels). Dunno where on the "single encounter" to "full career" time scale that effects a lot of the PC vs monster balancing concerns this sort of thing lies. In other words, to us an extreme example, Cure Minor Wounds - At Will varies in power with how many encounters the creature is expected to survive and is reduced in power if those encounters are spread days apart.

Zeta Kai
2011-06-27, 12:02 PM
Well, try dividing all the points by 5 to streamline the math.

Agreed, that would give you 100-400 Army Points (hereinafter referred to as AP), & creature costs as follows:

1CR = 1AP
2CR = 2AP
3CR = 4AP
4CR = 8AP
5CR = 16AP
6CR = 32AP
7CR = 64AP

As for the concept itself, I can't say for sure whether it's completely balanced, as AFAIK it hasn't really been done before. The numbers seem okay, but +1CR does not usually mean that a creature is twice as powerful as it was before. The D20 CR system runs on the assumption that two creature of the same CR are a +2CR challenge, so two CR1 creatures are a ECL3 challenge. Therefore, something more like this may be in order:

1CR = 2AP
2CR = 3AP
3CR = 4AP
4CR = 6AP
5CR = 8AP
6CR = 12AP
7CR = 16AP

2011-06-27, 12:30 PM
Since rules are equally for everyone, there is no in-rules mistake in it, but you should be aware of the issue: CR is set as a benchmark for an encounter for 4 PCs. It is in no way intended to represent a generic power meter.

So you may face a high CR creature utterly useless in a brawl or in war (single target SLAs, low AC, low TS, low HP, no reductions are the best indicators), while lower CRs may be very effective as soldiers (multiple target SLAs, solid defensive features) or way more effective in groups than solely (Vrocks and their dance of ruin).

By the way, I'll love to play it anyway :smallbiggrin:

2011-06-27, 12:35 PM
Miniatures Handbook is focused on the Wargaming aspect of D&D, maybe it has some stuff you can use?

Lord Loss
2011-06-27, 05:53 PM
Thanks for the help everybody. I'm probably going to go with something like this:

That means that theoretically your progression should go something like:

(Or the one posted by Zar Peter, for it to be simpler)

What level should the General (the equivalent of a PC) be?

Also, how many AP should I distribute and how many GP should be allocated to build a stronghold (and traps, if desired), equip your soldiers (most of which come with basic weapons and armor, better weapons/armor can be bought) and buy your General (PC) magic items.

Finally, I'm trying to give each faction a special "flair". Here's what I came up with so far.

Undead: They get incorporeal creatures, necromancers that can raise the dead and lots of units to chose from and lots of templates that can be applied. Their units cap out at CR 6. They can buy Grave Dirt Golems and Cadaver Golems (36 000 Gp abd 30 000 Gp respectively).

Demons: They have a small number of units to choose from. However, they fill a multitude of role and many demons can summon other demons for limited amounts of time. Also, a small number of demons can be summoned from time to time, from specific summoning circles (that can be destroyed by other factions). They can buy Gloom Golems with gold pieces (40 000 apeice)

Wild: They can choose a CR 8 Creature (the Treant). They have many units to choose from, but only a handful of templates. I'd appreciate another ability to add to this faction, but I can't think of anything.

Dwarves: All soldiers get free masterwork weapons and they begin with either some additional gold or constructs (or both? I can't decide which I prefer). I'm not sure how many constructs/GP to add. Also, I'd like another ability to spice this faction up a little more.

Thanks in advance guys, I really appreciate all the responses (I'd like to give Miniatures Handbook a look, but I can't find a copy neraby).