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drack
2011-06-27, 04:09 PM
Bloodspilt


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1055/5152303333_a7edba7ca7_z.jpg

The Bloodspilt are decedents of an ancient race of ooze more powerful than the dragons of today or the demons of eons past. long ago they have been wiped out by angered gods after having been mistaken as gods themselves. Yet as humans and dragons did, so did the Ancestors, mixing bloodlines with countless races they are the Ancestors of all those races that still have blood in their veins, and many who no longer do. As among all races certain genetics take dominance, for example there are half dragon humans, quarter dragon humans, third dragon humans and so on. Some groups among various races kept the blood of the Ancestors stronger in their veins, and as such have retained a fraction of the powers that the ancestors held.

In essence the Bloodspilt are to the Ancestors as Sorcerers are to Dragons, drawing upon the powers of their bloodlines to summon magics beyond their own races capabilities.




Adventuring: Bloodspilt have scattered across the realms for fear of being wiped out, but as a result in order to find mates they tend to need to search all too far which can easily turn into an adventure of its own.

Characteristics: Bloodspilt tend to wear red... not because those cloths were red, but because they are red now. They also tend to smell strongly of blood. (shocker right :smallamused:)

Alignment: The Bloodspilt despite their masochistic appearance tend to be lawful following ages of traditions and rites.

Religion: Sometimes they worship their own ancient long dead gods or ancestors, but they tend to worship anyone who isn't opposed to the spilling of blood.

Races: The Bloodspilt are decedents of some unknown race who's interbreeding caused the presence of blood (yes shockingly dragons weren't the first things in existence), and any decedents of theirs who have kept their blood from getting too thin over the years can take this class (old pompous pure blooded families of any race that has blood in its veins)

Other classes: Bloodspilt tend to multiclass as sorcerers for the extra spell slots, but they could probably do fine with tons of stuff.

Role: They tend to act primarily as magi, but they have some small competence at healing once they reach higher levels. All the same handing out healing too easily weakens their spellcasting considerably.

HD d4

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|bloody spell 3, strong blooded, stiff blooded

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|blood pool, drawing blood

3rd|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3|armor of blood, death blood

4th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|bloodless, quickened heart

5th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|hail of gore, stimulate blood flow, bloody pool

6th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Master of cuts

7th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|bloodthirst

8th|
+4|
+6|
+2|
+6|Blood shield

9th|
+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|bloody spell 5

10th|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|bloody pool

11th|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|blood mingling

12th|
+6/+1|
+8|
+4|
+8|sanguine complexion

13th|
+6/+1|
+8|
+4|
+8|Blood Pledge

14th|
+7/+2|
+9|
+4|
+9|control blood

15th|
+7/+2|
+9|
+5|
+9|bloody pool, The Pulse

16th|
+8/+3|
+10|
+5|
+10|blood siblings

17th|
+8/+3|
+10|
+5|
+10|bloody spell 7

18th|
+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|of the old blood

19th|
+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|wall of blood

20th|
+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|bloody pool, Blood of My Blood, Blood of my Magic
[/table]

Class Skills:
Skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, knowledge (arcane), knowledge (Religion), knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Bluff
skill points at first level
(2+int modifier)x4

skill points at each additional level
2+int modifier

Spells known
{table=head]Level|level 0|level 1|level 2|level 3|level 4|level 5|level 6|level 7|level 8|level 9

1st|
4|
2|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

2nd|
5|
2|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

3rd|
5|
3|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

4th|
6|
3|
1|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

5th|
6|
4|
2|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

6th|
7|
4|
2|
1|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

7th|
7|
5|
3|
2|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

8th|
8|
5|
3|
2|
1|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

9th|
8|
5|
4|
3|
2|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-

10th|
9|
5|
4|
3|
2|
1|
-|
-|
-|
-

11th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
3|
2|
-|
-|
-|
-

12th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
3|
2|
1|
-|
-|
-

13th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
4|
3|
2|
-|
-|
-

14th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
4|
3|
2|
1|
-|
-

15th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
4|
4|
3|
2|
-|
-

16th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
4|
4|
3|
2|
1|
-

17th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
4|
4|
3|
3|
2|
-

18th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
4|
4|
3|
3|
2|
1

19th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
4|
4|
3|
3|
3|
2

20th|
9|
5|
5|
4|
4|
4|
3|
3|
3|
3
[/table]

Class features

Abilities based upon using an opponent's blood do not work on select creatures, namely Constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, undead unless you're DM rules otherwise in special cases.


weapon and armor proficiency
Bloodspilt are proficient with light armor and simple weapons

Strong Blooded(Ex:) The Bloodspilt are of a hearty race, and can easily take hits that would shake even a raging barbarian. All levels devoted to this class give maximum HP per HD In addition once per minute a Bloodspilt can heal two HP as a standard action. In addition Bloodspilt automatically stabilize if they fall below 0hp.

Stiff Blooded(Ex:) Unfortunately the same rich blood that keeps them so strong is also their downfall, the Bloodspilt can’t receive healing (from positive or negative energy) or temporary hit points of any kind that does not come from their own bodies. Not even their own magic can heal them.

Bloody Spell(Su:) The Bloodspilt know spells much as a sorcerer would, but rather than use spell slots bloodsilts must give three HP per spell level in order to cast any spell, essentially creating the spell slot directly before its use as a free action, allowing the slot to simply vanish if not used within the round it was created. This HP cost increases by two for every 8 levels after first (so a level 9 or higher pays 5*spell level and a level 17 or higher pays 7*spell level.) While this makes constitution their deciding ability in terms of spells/day, Cha is their casting stat for all other purposes. This ability can’t be used to create spell slots above the level of those known unless the character has taken the epic feat 'Improved Spell Capacity' which rather than granting a spell slot simply allows the caster to create slots of that level. Level 0 spells count as level 1/2 for this purpose, and always round down.

Blood Pool(Ex:) At second level Bloodspilt gain the ability to hold blood in themselves without it circulating throughout their vanes. This blood is called their blood pool, and it can reach as high as (12+their con modifier)* (their bloodspilt level/2), at fifth level this limit doubles to (12+their con modifier)* (their bloodspilt level), at tenth it becomes (12+their con modifier)* (their bloodspilt level*3/2), and at level 20 it becomes (12+their con modifier)* (their bloodspilt level)*2. A blood pool can only be filled either through the strong blooded healing ability, or through the Bloodspilt willingly transferring HP to their blood pool.

Drawing Blood(Su:) At second level the Bloodspilt gain the ability to draw health from their blood pool as a swift action healing one point of damage for each two points used from the blood pool. This ability can be used 2/day, but is usually a last resort.

Death Blood(Su:) At third level a Bloodspilt can as a move action claim the blood of an adjacent enemies corpse (assuming it has moist blood in it), this ability adds a tenth of the deceased HP total to the Bloodspilt's blood pool, and causes the corpse to fall to dust without moisture as the disintegrate spell

Armor of Blood(Su:) At level three the Bloodspilt can harden their blood and wear it as armor. This ability can be used two ways, the first is to give 20 HP, or 20 from their blood pool per point of damage reduction desired hardening it on their skin, granting them DR x/-, the other option is to give up 10HP, or 10 from their pool per point of natural armor bonus desired angling the blood such as to deflect blows. In either case they may only have one at a time, and this armor flakes off once they lose as much health as they invested in it, or 1hour/level time elapses, and no more than 5HP/level can be used this way.

Bloodless(Su:) At fourth level Bloodspilt can divert his blood away from other areas of his body in order to fight longer. At any time as a free action he may take one point of constitution damage to heal fifty health, this constitution damage does not count against the Bloodspilt's HP total, and it may not be healed by any means other than the Bloodspilt willingly sacrificing fifty HP for it's recovery. Excess health gained flows into the Bloodspilt's blood pool, and the fifty returned can also be paid from the blood pool. In addition the Bloodspilt can no longer be subject to bleeding wounds, or death by massive damage.

Quickened Heart(Su:) A Blodsplit of fourth level or higher gains fast healing 1 when their heart rate rises and keeps blood flowing due to excess physical exertion (in combat).

Hail of Gore(Su:) At fifth level the Bloodspilt can now cast off their armor as a standard action spewing the blood from which it is composed at all enemies within a 30' range, imbuing the blood it's self with arcane fire such as to deal 1d8 damage/10 HP invested in it. Creatures within the area are allowed a reflex save for half with a DC equal to 10+ half their Bloodspilt level+ the Bloodspilt's charisma modifier for half damage.

Stimulate Blood Flow(Su:) At fifth level a Bloodspilt can stimulate blood flow healing wounds. This ability works similar to lay on hands, except that a Bloodspilt can heal up to their Bloodspilt level X their Charisma mod X 3 damage per day. (A negative cha mod means they can't use this ability, not that it does damage) If this ability is used on an undead it still deals positive energy damage as lay on hands, but does so by stimulating blood flow where no blood should flow essentially crushing the innards of the undead where old veins have crusted over or broken allowing new turrets of blood to surge through and pool within them. This ability even affects undeads such as skeletons stimulating blood flow within their bones themselves to the same affect.

Master of Cuts(Su:) At sixth level a Bloodspilt can absorb the blood spilt around him as it worms it's way to them. This allows them to gain half the damage dealt by any slashing weapon to anyone else within 5'/bloodspilt level to be gained into their blood pool.

Bloodthirst(Su:) A Bloodsplit of seventh level or higher gains the ability to attract blood while it is still within the opponent's body with a successful touch attack dealing 1d4 damage per level of Bloodspilt, and adding half the damage dealt to their blood pool The subject may make a Fortitude save for half damage at a DC of 10+half the bloodspilt's level+ the bloodspilt's constitution modifier.

Blood shield(Su:) At eighth level a Bloodspilt can as a free action cover adjacent allies with her blood preventing the area effect from damaging the ally within 5'/bloodspilt level at the expense of 10HP, or 10 from their blood pool per ally protected in this manner. (The Bloodspilt will always take full damage when they use this ability, allowing no saves for partial damage)

abnormal blood(Ex:) As of ninth level all of a bloodspilt's blood-oriented supernatural abilities rely solely on the abnormal properties of their blood allowing them to function any time that an extraordinary ability might.

Blood Mingling(Su:) At level 11 a Bloodspilt gains the extraordinary ability to heal others from their own health. This ability heals up to ten HP/level damage costing the Bloodspilt an equal quantity from their blood pool as a standard action.

sanguine complexion(Su:) a bloodspilt of twelfth level and higher doubles his constitution modifier when determining bonus HP and the size of his blood pool.

Blood Pledge(Su:) This ability allows a Bloodspilt and another to exchange pledges in a bloody rite that binds them to their word. If either side fails to fulfill their pledge they will suffer the effects of fatigue, these effects stack with actual fatigue, and with any other broken pledges. This effect can only be removed by a miracle or wish after the Bloodspilt with whom the pledge was made is dead. (Bloodspilt deal with their shame until they die.) As an alternative the pledge could be made with a curse as by the Bestow curse spell to befall either party if they fail to fulfill their end. In either case this curse carries through their bloodlines affecting the oath breaker's children and their children and so on.

Control Blood(Su:) At this point a Bloodspilt gains greater control over their blood granting you immunity from poison, and diseases (magical and nonmagical).

The Pulse(Su:) At fifteenth level the bloodspilt gain the ability to hear heartbeats within 100'. This ability is akin to life sense except that it only works on creatures with blood of some sort in their veins.

Blood Siblings(Su:) This ability allows the Bloodspilt to form mystical bonds with their blood brothers and blood sisters. This ability requites a week long ritual in which no more than 1/level may be bonded. Once the ritual is completed you are now bonded by blood. A bond stronger than most bonds of kin through which you share all agonies of your blood. Blood siblings are not made easily, and the process is not reversible through anything short of death. Even resurrection restores the link unless it is done through some means such as cloning from before the bond was made. This bond acts as a permanent two way shield other spell that alerts each other to the pains of the other for as long as they live. These pains feel as your own, and as this is not a magical effect it is not annulled by an antimagic field. Also note that abilities that cost blood aren't considered damage, and as such are not shared through this link.

Of the Old Blood(Su:) Your blood carries a magical resistance from times when magic was everywhere. Whenever someone casts a spell that could affect you, you may sacrifice a spell slot of the same level in order to gain spell resistance equal to your Bloodspilt level+Cha mod+10+ the spell slot sacrificed against that one spell this round as a free action. This ability allows you to know whenever magic is being used on you, but doesn't tell you what sort.

Wall of Blood(Su:) For the cost of 100 hp, or 100 from your blood pool as a standard action you may now erect a 50'radius spherical shell of your own hardened blood to encase you. The sphere is stationary, and has 10HP/bloodspilt level, 2 hardness/bloodspilt level, 1" thickness, does not form within through stone, but does form through weaker surfaces such as paper or cloth, anchoring them in place without damaging them. At your time of death, or any other time of your choice you may allow the sphere to collapse as a move action with no effect to those inside beyond a few red stains. This wall can be see through by x-ray vision, and it has an overall health total rather than as determined by individual 5x5 squares, so as such when a part is breached the whole effect ends. This effect can last at most 1hour/level after which the blood flakes away in the wind within minutes

Blood of My Blood(Su:) You may now form the strongest bonds of all, now your blood siblings are truly of your blood, and may take levels in Bloodspilt. You also gain double the standard flanking bonus when flanking with the blood of your blood, and you may share up to fifty health with a blood sibling as a swift action if they are within 50'/bloodspilt level of you as a free action once per round.

Blood of my Magic(Su:) When a bloodspilt forms a true family through the Blood of My Blood class feature he may share the magic that courses through his blood granting the effect of any one enchantment he is under to all others of his blood so long as they remain within 50'/bloodspilt level. A bloodspilt may only share one such spell at a time, and when the spell duration ends, it ends for all those affected by this ability.


PRC


[B]Angel of Sanguis
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/1/6/0/4/7/webimg/503989735_o.jpg
Angels of Sanguise are powerful predators of the night, for when a vampire drains a bloodspilt, the bloodspilt becoms an Angel of Sanguis. More commonly though bloodspilt are converted by other Angels of Sanguis.

The Angels of Sanguise are not vampires per say, but mortal bloodspilt that have awakened the primal predatory instincts within their blood.
Requirements

To qualify to become an Angel of Sanguis, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.

Alignment: Any lawful.

Skills:

Special: this class can only be taken by a bloodspilt that has been subject to a vampire's blood drain ability, and has the class ability The Pulse. Immediately after being rained a bloodspilt falls into a death like trance while his quicken heart and bloodless class feature slowly restores him to full health, at which time he becomes free to pursue this PRC assuming he meats the other entry requirements.


HD d12

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|The Change, Blood Mark

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Cloak of Blood

3rd|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3|Blood Blades, Savage Claws

4th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Mist of Blood

5th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Blood Diamonds

6th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Expansive Mists

7th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Fangs of the Nightlord, Tides of Blood


8th|
+4|
+6|
+2|
+6|Blood Beasts

9th|
+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|Crimson Wings

10th|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Angelic Might
[/table]

Class Skills:
Skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, knowledge (arcane), knowledge (Religion), knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Bluff
skill points at first level
(2+int modifier)x4

skill points at each additional level
2+int modifier


Class Features

The Change (Su:) Once bitten or drained the former bloodspilt does not die, nor does he join the ranks of the undead, though he does change his HD to d12s. His appearance becomes fiercer and more primal. A Angel of Sanguis' Angel of Sanguis levels stack with it's bloodspilt levels for the sake of determining the strength of the abilities from either class with the exception of bloody spell which Angel of Sanguis does not advance.

Blood Mark(Su:) Angels of Sanguis will generally mark it's servants such that they will not be eaten by other Angels of Sanguis. In order to place a mark of blood a Angel of Sanguis must make a touch attack as a full round action. The marked creature is then allowed a single will save (DC 10+the Angel of Sanguis' level+cha mod) to resist the mark, after which the mark is permanent. The mark it's self is a portion of arcane energies that mix with the subjects blood, though they're rendered temporally inactive in an antimagic field or similar effect.

At first level a blood mark allows the Angel of Sanguis to always know where the ones they mark are at all times so long as they are on the same plane. A blood mark is also viable to any Angel of Sanguis within sight of the marked creature.

At fourth level an Angel of Sanguis gets a +1/2Angels of Sanguis levels insight bonus to hit anyone marked.

At seventh level an Angel of Sanguis can, as a swift action, force a single marked creature within 5'/level to make a fortitude save or take 10 points of damage/Angel of Sanguis' level healing the Angel of Sanguis the same amount, or adding as much to the Angel of Sanguis' blood pool. This damage is not subject to DR, and any creature reduced below ten HP dies shriveling into a bloodless husk before collapsing into dust.

At tenth level Angels of Sanguis learn to expend their blood marks for greater effect. when using a mark of blood against a marked creature an Angel of Sanguis can expend the mark to double the rate at which energy can be drained or one round, and add an additional +10 to the DC to resist if draining life from it's target.


Cloak of Blood(Su:) An Angel of Sanguis of second level or higher is constantly surrounded by a faint mist of blood that grants 20% concealment. This concealment can not be breached by effects such as gust of wind, though they do cause ten damage to the Angel of Sanguis if they choose to maintain it. Alternatively they can treat the gust of wind as them choosing to dismiss the aura, reabsorbing the blood before it can be blown away.

Savage Claws(Su:) At third level Angels of Sanguis gain the ability to wrap their hands in blood forming wicked claws as the blood armor ability, investing ten HP to allow them to use claw attacks in place of weapons dealing 1d6+str mod slashing damage. Angels of Sanguis can also channel their bloodthirst ability through these claws, draining blood even if the claws themselves fail to pierce the subject's armor so long as the claws hit.

Blood Blades(Su:) An Angel of Sanguis may "throw" their natural attacks as if under a continuous blood wind (SC) spell up to a range of 5'/Angel of Sanguis level. Furthermore, so long as the target remains n the Angel of Sanguis' aura of blood the target is not allowed the standard will save or spell resistance.

Mist of Blood (Su:) In addition the Angel of Sanguis may as a standard action melt into this mist, dissolving into droplets of blood. This ability is similar to a gaseous form spell except in that the Angel of Sanguis is impervious to attacks that an attacker on the material plane could not use to affect an eathreal creature. The Angel of Sanguis is also unable to take any but move actions at a speed of 20' until he or she re-solidifies as a swift action. An Angel of Sanguis may suppress this cloud as a standard action and resume it as a free action.

Blood Diamonds (Su:) At any time as a full round action an Angel of Sanguis can pay a combination of blood and HP equal to three times their HP total, storing the health in the form of a small gem the size of a pebble. A Angel of Sanguis can have up to one such gem of his own blood in existence/5 Angel of Sanguis levels. These gems can be attuned to the following uses.


An Angel of Sanguis can at any time draw blood from a held blood diamond as a move action recovering health and blood pool from it.

A Blood Diamond placed within a Blood Beast functions as an extra HP reservoir allowing it to survive more damaging blows.

The third and final use for a blood diamond is to as a full round action assign it as a death diamond. Once done this may not be reversed, and a death diamond may no longer be used for the above uses, allowing the diamond to settle in their arteries. When an Angel of Sanguis possessing a death diamond dies the diamond triggers, acting much like a death throes spell, except that it deals damage equal to the blood contained in all death gems the Angel of Sanguis bears, and the flames are of blood red arcane energy. Any caught in the 30' blast effect are allowed a will save (DC 10+Angel of Sanguin level+Wis mod) for half damage


Expansive Mists(Su:) An Angel of Sanguis' mists of blood extends to 5'/Angel of Sanguis level. When reforming the Angel of Sanguis may reform anywhere within the area of this effect. Additionally this mist acts as a fog cloud spell that Angels of Sanguis can see through.

Tides of Blood(Su:) About an Angel of Sanguis, a small tide of blood pools and ripples about their feet, flowing above the ground, or even into the air when they fly. A Angel of Sanguis' gains a second blood pool, as the first, except that it can only be used for the Angel of Sanguis' Blood Armor, Blood Beasts, and Crimson Wings abilities. In addition this second blood pool can be used as an immediate action to share health across the Blood of my Blood bond assuming the Angel of Sanguis shares such a bond. this blood pool will hereafter be referred to as the Angel of Sanguis' Feral Blood Pool, and can be added to through any means that one might add to their regular blood pool.

Fangs of the Nightlord(Su:) Through The armor of blood ability a Angel of Sanguis can invest a hundred HP to coat their teeth in blood, giving them a razor edge. Once per round when a Angel of Sanguis takes a full round attack action can make one additional Bite attack at their full Attack Bonus (this effect is treated as an additional natural attack, and as such stacks with haste effects). If this attack hits the Angel of Sanguis begins draining the creature's blood at an astounding rate. The blood it's self flows out before the fangs even piercing the skin forcing the creature to make a fortitude save DC (10+Angel of Sanguis level+Cha Mod), or drop to 0Hp healing the Angel of Sanguis an equal quantity of health allowing excess to run off into his blood pools. On a successful save this attack only drains fifty health (or less if the creature has less to drain) Any creature reduced to zero HP is rendered unconscious until they regain full health. Blood Blades can not deliver Fangs of the Nightlord

Blood Beasts(Su:) Angel of Sanguis are now strong enough to form horrors of their blood.

Blood beast creation rules

Hound/Bird:
the most common use for this ability, an Angel of Sanguis can as a full round action shape a portion of their feral pool into the shape of a legendary wolf or eagle that will obey telepathic commands at a distance of 5'/Angel of Sanguis level. Blood Hounds and Blood eagles each cost eight from the Angel of Sanguis feral pool per HD up to the HD of the Angel of Sanguis. As a free action blood beasts adjacent to their Angel of Sanguis may reabsorb into their feral pool returning their remaining HP up to a maximum of four times their HD to the feral pool. These points can not be regained until the blood beasts are dead or reabsorbed.

vine:
A 9th level Angel of Sanguis can form an assassin vine within it's feral pool causing tendrils of blood to rise from the bloody ground. Unlike the other forms of the Blood Beasts ablities vine uses the pool it's self as it's health total making any attacks each round as would be possible for total feral points/8 HD of assassin vines to make.

May as well toss in a short example for this.

Lets say I have 64 HP in this pool after I make angels and hound/birds. This translates to the equivalent of 8 vine HD for the purposes of my pool attacking on it's own. I can choose 8 attacks that a one HD vine could make, or one that an 8HD vine could make. Thus the more that is put into a single attack the more it can do, and the less attacks I get and vice versa.


angel:
A 10th level Angel of Sanguis gains the ability to create a spectacular angel, devoting 500 HP, or from their Feral Pool they may create an angel with five hundred HP, and the following abilities: Abnormal Blood, blood shield, Of the old Blood, Wall of Blood, Savage claws, and Crimson Wings. An angel can never be re-absorbed, and commonly are ordered to burn themselves out after use such that new ones can be produced. Angels have a fly speed of 90' (perfect) when their Crimson Wings are active, and appear horrifically beautiful allowing them to be used to divert attention from the Angel of Sanguis, using their defensive abilities to stall. Angels are also gifted with the ability to feign the use of the Bloody spell ability with access to spells up to level nine, though none of the spell truly has any effect beyond burning hit points and appearing to be real. (As if an illusion, but being real True seeing and the like will not pierce it)

All blood beasts are treated as if Stiff Blooded


Crimson Wings(Su:) Instead of blood armor a Angel of Sanguis can invest in Crimson wings. Instead of relying on their blood armor Angels of Sanguis rely on their crimson wings to deflect incoming attacks. For every 20 HP invested a Angel of Sanguis forms one wing. Whenever the Angel of Sanguis is attacked, it is entitled to a sunder attack on the weapon striking it at it's full Attack Bonus without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it succeeds rather than damaging the opposing weapon the Angel of Sanguis blocks the attack with a wing. Wings are treated as having 20HP and 10 hardness, and may each only block one attack/round.

Angelic Might(Su:) At tenth level a Angel of Sanguis is capable of possessing an additional two blood diamonds at a time, and counts as five levels higher then he is for the purposes of determining the strength of his bloodspilt and Angel of Sanguis abilities. (This can be considered as +5 to either one as they both pool together, not as +5 to each individually)

Halna LeGavilk
2011-07-13, 10:13 PM
Okay, firstly, and only comment at the moment: I would have a pool of "effective" hit points, and actual hit points. The actual hit points would be d4, the effective would be d12+(something). Everything works the same, except you use your effective hit points for spells, and actual hit points would be for regular stuff. Once the effective pool went less than the regular pool, he would start taking regular hit point damage.

drack
2011-07-13, 10:15 PM
hmm, I can see it working, but than would I ditch the pool multipliers at higher levels?
... than again even if the pool does grow more that does help quite a bit :smallbiggrin:

Igneel
2011-08-22, 11:07 PM
Saw that you were looking for some critiquing and since I was offline for the majority of the day and had some free time I decided to save the text and critique it on a word file. Not all that sure how good my critique/suggestions are since typically people don’t take my word to heart, but here is my 2 cp.


Strong Blooded(ex:) The Bloodspilt are of a hearty race, and can easily take hits that would shake even a raging barbarian. All levels devoted to this class give maximum HP per HD In addition once per minute a Bloodspilt can heal two HP as a standard action, in addition Bloodspilt ate immune to death by massive damage.

To what limit outside of the 'once per minute' can you use the healing 2 HP ability? For example, could someone theoretically just sit down and spend an hour to gain 120 HP or can they only use this up to their max HP? Or can they go beyond that in the form of Temporary HP/Blood Pool at higher levels? Granted the ‘max HP per HD’ does help keep you alive longer, this also makes it so that you would need to spend more time healing with this ability alone.

Not entirely sure, but isn't immunity to death by massive damage kinda OP for a 1st level ability?

Stiff Blooded(ex:) Unfortunately the same rich blood that keeps them so strong is also their downfall, the Bloodspilt can not receive healing of any kind that does not come from their own bodies. Not even their own magic can heal them.

First glance, this is a bad thing considering that at first level you only have a 2 HP/min healing source. Course you do gain other methods later so I’ll have to try and see if they keep up with the healing you’ll need.
You mention that ‘healing of any kind’ has no effect. As un-Optimized as it might be, what if the Bloodspilt was an undead and got hit by negative energy? Does that not effect him as well?
Might need to look at that last sentence, “Not even their own magic can heal them” sounds kinda controversial considering that your very first ability supposedly heals you, along with several other abilities later on. Course I’m guessing that its supposed to mean that if the Bloodspilt took a level in an class capable of casting healing spells/using healing effects that it doesn’t work on them.

Bloody Spell(ex:) The Bloodspilt know spells much as a sorcerer would, but rather than use spell slots bloodsilts must give three HP per spell level in order to cast any spell, essentially creating the spell slot directly before its use as a free action, allowing the slot to simply vanish if not used within the round it was created. This HP cost increases by two for every 8 levels after first (so a level 9 pays 5*spell level and a level 17 pays 7*spell level) While this makes constitution their deciding ability in terms of spells/day, Cha is their casting stat for all other purposes. This ability can not be used to create spell slots above the level of those known unless the character has taken the epic feat 'Improved Spell Capacity' which rather than granting a spell slot simply allows the caster to create slots of that level.

Alright, let me get this straight since for some reason this entry is somewhat not making sense. To cast a spell like a sorcerer I must give up 3 HP per spell level [lvl 0= 0x3 to lvl 8= 8x3], which increases every 8[lvl 9=9x5 to lvl 16=16x5], and increases again [lvl 17=17x7 to lvl 24=25x7], etc?
You also don’t have a table for Spells known/per day unless its supposed to the table for Sorcerer. If that is so, it might help to add that along with re-word that entry to make some sense.
Another thing is how does metamagic feats effect these spells, if these spells are even effected by metamagic feats?

Blood Pool(ex:) at second level Bloodspilt gain the ability to hold blood in themselves without it circulating throughout their vanes. This blood is called their blood pool, and it can reach as high as (12+their con modifier)* (their bloodspilt level/2), at fifth level this limit doubles to (12+their con modifier)* (their bloodspilt level), at tenth it becomes (12+their con modifier)* (their bloodspilt level*3/2), and at level 20 it becomes (12+their con modifier)* (their bloodspilt level)*2. A blood pool can only be filled either through the strong blooded healing ability, or through the Bloodspilt willingly transferring HP to their blood pool.

Love that we get a separate ‘pool’ of blood for the use of your abilities and spells. And with differing values as you gain levels too! So that the Bloodspilt with a +2 Con mod at second level, but a +15 mod by lvl 20 get vastly different things they can do.
It seems to scale quite nicely unless you get someone that optimizes their Con and Cha to get the most out of these abilities.
I personally will be using the term ‘blood points’ throughout the rest of my critique to refer to the points from the pool the majority of the time. I think it has a nice ring to it, almost like ‘charges’ for the Touch of Vitality, or ‘inspiration’ for the Factotum, or ‘power points’ for Psionic classes.
Would your healing/’blood point’ gaining abilities refill it only to max amount, or can they refill beyond the top limit?
A Epic [~lvl 50] Gestalt character I once made had a Con score of 70 (+30 mod) that would of loved having some of these abilities. Had he taken 20 levels of this class he would have (12+30)*(20*2)=(42)*(40)= 1,680 ‘blood points’.

Drawing Blood(ex:) at second level the Bloodspilt gain the ability to draw health from their blood pool healing half as much in health. This ability can b used 2/day, but is usually a last resort.

A nice back up healing method. Has an equal reward/consequence effect in that you only have so many uses of it a day along with it using your blood pool, but healing you when times get tough.

Death Blood(ex:) at third level a Bloodspilt can claim the blood of their enemies corpse (assuming it is dead, not undead, and has moist blood in it), this ability adds a tenth of the deceased HP total to the Bloodspilt's blood pool, and allows the corpse to fall to dust without moisture as the disintegrate spell

Might have to put in clauses for instances when your group is fighting things that some players might try to get away with such as certain Plants [does chlorophyll count?], a Bloodfire Ooze [MMIV], a Bloodhulk undead [MMIV] or other creatures with blood-like substitute or blood-themed. Something along the lines of ‘a recently deceased living creature of the -blank- type’ where you can write out a list of suitable targets.
What if its an uneven number for the 1/10 of the total HP we drain, do we round up or down? Like lets take the example of someone that kills, lets say a house cat which has 2HP total. For this example you might want to put a clause that you gain a always minimum of 1HP with this effect. Now lets take a Aboleth [76HP] would we round it up to 8 (since it’s 7.6HP) or round down to 7?
Is the enemy considered ‘dead’ at below -10HP or under 0? I ask since most campaigns I’ve played in the players or DM doesn’t even care about the enemy once they fall below 0 and declare them dead anyways. Does the ‘fall to dust’ effect affect the bringing back to life of a creature in a similar manner as the Disintegrate spell?
A technical 3rd level disintegrate seems kind of a cheap way to keep reoccurring enemies from confronting you during future adventures.

Armor of Blood(ex:) At level three the Bloodspilt can harden their blood and wear it as armor. This ability can be used two ways, the first is to give 20 HP, or 20 from their blood pool per point of damage reduction desired hardening it on their skin, granting them DR x/-, the other option is to give up 10HP, or 10 from their pool per point of natural armor bonus desired angling the blood such as to deflect blows. In either case they may only have one at a time, and this armor flakes off once they loose as much health as they invested in it, or 1hour/level time elapses, and no more than 5HP/level can be used this way.

20 HP or ‘blood points’ from your pool per DR x/- vs 10 HP or ‘blood points’ from your pool per Natural Armor bonus with a 5HP/level cap and 1 hour/level. At low levels this is pretty balanced in that you will only really be able to use the Natural Armor choice [ex: 3rd level you can only use 15 HP meaning a +3 NA vs DR 1/- for 3 hours].
But what about in the higher levels, assuming you have ways to gain vast amounts of HP in a short time you could theoretically hit the limit of your DR/- let alone NA bonus? But after doing the math, by level 20 you could only get a DR of 5 [5hp x 20lvls=100/20 per DR=5] vs a NA of +10 [5hp x 20lvls=100/10 per NA=10]. Comparing this to other classes that get DR from levels such as the Barbarian, Dread Necromancer, Dragonfire Adept, and Warlock most if not all of them have DR 5 in one shape or another, but only the Barbarian gets DR/-. Nicely balanced, more so then I originally thought when I saw that you could spend ‘blood points’ for these effects.

Bloodless(ex:) at fourth level Bloodspilt can direct their blood away from other areas of their bodies in order to fight longer. At any time they may take one point of constitution damage to heal fifty health, this constitution damage does not count against the Bloodspilt's HP total, and it may not be healed by any means other than the Bloodspilt willingly sacrificing fifty HP for it's recovery. Excess health gained flows into the Bloodspilt's blood pool, and the fifty returned can also be paid from the blood pool. In addition the Bloodspilt can no longer be subject to bleeding wounds.

Can take 1 Con damage [minimum] to heal 50 health, but by using class abilities you can heal that and then gain your Con point back to put the points into your blood pool, effectively making it so that you can ‘recharge your batteries’ without too much trouble. For example, using Strong Blooded alone you could take less then half an hour [25 mins to be precise] and regain your 50 from 1 Con damage to recharge your ‘blood points’ for a spell or something later. Not sure if you meant to make it so that a player could effectively cycle this way during their down time after like a BBEG fight or something.

Quickened Heart(ex:) just to get this out of the way, yes I did use the word 'quickened' just to mess with you A Bloodsplit of fourth level or higher gains fast healing one when their heart rate rises and keeps blood flowing due to excess physical exertion (in combat).

’When in situations that would cause a Bloodspilt of fourth level or higher’s heart rate rise or blood flowing due to excess physical exertion such as combat, running long distances, [Fear, yelling in anger, that bed in the back of the tavern action no body speaks of…] grants them fast healing 1.’ Or something like that? And yes I was serious about the fear and bed action…

Hail of Gore(ex:) at fifth level the Bloodspilt can now cast off their armor as a full round action spewing the blood from which it is composed at all enemies within a 30' range, imbuing the blood it's self with arcane fire such as to deal 1d8 damage per five HP that went into it. Creatures within the area are allowed a reflex save for half with a DC equal to 10+ half their Bloodspilt level+ the Bloodspilt's charisma modifier

I’m personally not sure how over/under powered this ability is, but at least it has a linear progression.
At the most at the lowest level we could be firing off 5d8 damage [5hp x 5lvls= 25/10=2.5 NA] with a Ref save.
Revisit the lvl 20 Natural armor bonus of +10 [5hp x 20lvls=100/10 per NA=10], and now you get a 20d8 barrage of ‘arcane fire’ blood coming your way.
By ‘arcane fire’ does that mean the damage deals fire damage, that it’s a special type of damage like Eldritch blast or Spellfire, what?

Stimulate Blood Flow(ex:) at fifth level a Bloodspilt can stimulate blood flow healing wounds. This ability works similar to lay on hands, except that a Bloodspilt can heal up to their Bloodspilt level X their Charisma mod X 3 damage per day. (a negative cha mod means they can't use this ability, not that it does damage)

An interesting way to describe a ‘variant’ to Lay on Hands. Since Cha and Con are going to be at least your two top stats, this can be another nice emergency healing ability when needed.
Probably an obvious answer to a stupid question, but how does this effect ‘unique’ targets like undead, or other creatures not effected by other abilities requiring ‘living blood’ compared to Lay on Hands?

Master of Cuts(ex:) at sixth level a Bloodspilt can absorb the blood spilt around him as it worms it's way to them. This allows them to gain half the damage dealt by any slashing weapon within 30' to be gained into their blood pool. This radius increases to 40' at 8th level, and 50' at 12th

Incredibly awesome sounding, especially when paired with a tank standing guard over you. But what about piercing damage from say a rapier or getting shot by an arrow? Don’t those wounds bleed as well?
It states that you absorb half the damage dealt by ‘any’ slashing weapon, which would mean that includes your teammates and your own injuries. Pretty masochist sounding huh?
I also for some reason was expecting something along the lines of ‘enemies within x range wounds are effected like they were cut by a Wounding weapon’

Bloodthirst(ex:) a Bloodsplit of seventh level or higher gains the ability to attract blood while it is still within the opponent's body with a successful touch attack dealing 1d4 damage per level of Bloodspilt, and adding half the damage dealt to their blood pool.

Another awesome sounding ability, with that touch attack your going to have it easier to drain. Minimum level your doing 7d4 damage [28] with a ‘blood point’ addition of 14, while maximum level your dealing 20d4 [80] with 40 gained ‘blood points’.
I almost want to see at least a saving throw or something to half the damage taken or something.

Blood shield(ex:) at seventh level a Bloodspilt can as a free action cover adjacent allies with her blood preventing the area effect from damaging the ally at the expense of 10HP, or 10 from their blood pool per ally protected in this manner. (The Bloodspilt will always take full damage when they use this ability, allowing no saves for partial damage)

10HP/’blood points’ per companion to save from a area effect at the expense of leaving you open to full damage. This can be quite the reward/consequence ability by higher levels with Optimizers dropping Locate City Nuclear Bombs [or whatever they call them nowadays.]
Now all you need is to have a companion Bloodspilt to guard you while you guard them. You would be invincible!

Blood Mingling(ex:) At level 11 a Bloodspilt gains the extraordinary ability to heal others from their own health. This ability heals up to 1d6/level damage costing the Bloodspilt an equal quantity from their blood pool as a standard action.

At lvl 11, 1d6/level healing in exchange for the use of your blood pool sounds like a waste of my blood pool, especially since there should be some form of healer on the team as well. Not like I’m one to talk with my Wyrmfire Disciple using a variant of Touch of Vitality and using my precious charges/day to cast Heal or Raise Dead SLA basically…

Blood Pledge(ex:) This ability allows a Bloodspilt and another to exchange pledges in a bloody rite that binds them to their word. If either side fails to fulfill their pledge they will suffer the effects of fatigue, these effects stack with actual fatigue, and with any other broken pledges. This effect can only be removed by a miracle or wish after the Bloodspilt with whom the pledge was made is dead. (Bloodspilt deal with their shame until they die)

Imho this ability has little to give/gain save for a way to make someone fatigued or make yourself fatigued. I almost would vote for something like a bonus to a stat till they fulfill the pledge, with a penalty to the same stat if they fail. Or even something along the lines of a Blessing/Curse.
Who exactly dictates if the pledge wasn’t fulfilled? Say a Rogue makes a pledge to help steal from the royal treasury, but gets caught by guards stealing something else the night before and is detained for the next few months. He isn’t able to help you and thusly broke the pledge, but it was outside his control to some extent. What if he would like to redeem himself to you by successfully helping you at a later date, can that get rid of the fatigued effect? Does the Bloodspilt even know that the pledge wasn’t fulfilled if he is away or not present when the condition is or isn’t completed?

Control Blood(ex:) Now you now have a greater control over your blood granting you immunity from poison, and diseases.

Does this include magical poisons or diseases, or just mundane ones? I think it would be cool to avoid being effected by Vampirism or something with this ability.

Blood Siblings(ex:) This ability allows the Bloodspilt to form mystical bonds with their blood brothers and blood sisters. This ability requites a week long ritual in which no more than 1/level may be bonded. Once the ritual is completed you are now bonded by blood. A bond stronger than most bonds of kin through which you share all agonies of your blood. Blood siblings are not made easily, and the process is not reversible through anything short of death. Even resurrection restores the link unless it is done through some means such as cloning from before the bond was made. This bond acts as a permanent two way shield other spell that alerts each other to the pains of the other for as long as they live. These pains feel as your own, and as this is not a magical effect it is not annulled by an antimagic field. Also note that abilities that cost blood aren't considered damage, and as such are not shared through this link.

’two way shield other spell’ I guess means that only you and one of the recipients share damage, and not you and or one of the recipients can share with another recipient. So for example you do this ritual with a Cleric, a Rogue, and a Fighter, you now have a web that links you between yourself and these three other characters. Only you receive damage from any or all of the three, while they only share with you.
When you receive damage from one individual, how does that effect the others connected to you since you are taking damage by this effect? Would that mean that they take damage from the damage you received, and so cycle back to you, and continues the cycle till either your all dead or the damage runs out?

Of the Old Blood(ex:) Your blood carries a magical resistance from times when magic was everywhere. Whenever someone casts a spell that could affect you you may sacrifice a spell slot of the same level in order to gain spell resistance equal to your Bloodspilt level+Cha mod+10+ the spell slot sacrificed against that one spell this round as an immediate action. This ability allows you to know whenever magic is being used on you, but doesn't tell you what sort.

Makes the Blood Shield ability seem better when facing area effects that are affected by SR. Does this stack with any preexisting SR the player might have?
Dumb question for a dumb answer: How long does the SR last after you gain it since I seem to be blind and not see a duration, unless its just for that one round

Wall of Blood(ex:) For the cost of 100 hp, or 100 from your blood pool as a standard action you may now erect a 50'radius spherical shell of your own hardened blood to encase you. The sphere is stationary, and has 100HP, 20 hardness. At your time of death, or any other time of your choice you may allow the sphere to collapse as a move action with no effect to those inside beyond a few red stains.

How many spheres of hardened blood can you have in existence at one time? Is there no limit as long as you’re able to provide the blood, or somehow get out and make a new one elsewhere? You don’t mention how thick the wall is, and since you determine if it’s broken by how thick it is, the HP per thickness, and Hardness. I can see some epic level bloodspilts using these spheres to make a stronghold of blood for practically free over using materials like stone.
What happens if it breaks? Does it destroy the entire wall, or just a section? What if it was submerged in a liquid like water, since it is hardened blood? How does the hardened blood compare to like stone for spells like ‘Detect -alignment-’ or against an Ring of X-ray?
Can this be used while in mid-air to create a full sphere (only to have gravity kick in…)? What if you’re on the ground, does it make half of a sphere and not effect what’s underground or does it go underground as well? It states that the sphere is supposed to be ‘stationary’, just how stationary is this sphere?
A fun thought, wouldn’t it be funny for a War Hulk-like player to come over to a sphere and chuck it like a giant catapult stone with you inside?

Blood of My Blood(ex:) You may now form the strongest bonds of all, now your blood siblings are truly of your blood, and may take levels in Bloodspilt. You also gain double the standard flanking bonus when flanking with the blood of your blood, and you may share up to fifty health with a blood sibling as a swift action if they are within 500' of you.

Do the benefits go both ways, so that the siblings also gain the flanking bonus along with being able to send you 50hp when called for? Can you effectively start making bonds with other individuals and start a telephone line of hp or a huge group to gain flanking bonuses?
Think about a Leadership build that does this not only with his comrades and cohort, but his followers as well, and then do that with all of their Leadership gained comrades...

Misc comments to think about:
-When casting spells with your blood pool that normally would require materials or XP, do you still need to use those components? Ex: Polymorph for jade or Wish for XP
-For some reason I’m wanting to see some abilities similar to the Blood Magus [Complete Arcane] like Stanch [auto-stabilize when below 0 but above -10HP], Blood Draught [gain Brew Potion, and store potion-like effects in blood], Homunculus familiar [maybe around the same point as a Dread Necromancer gains their familiar?], Blood Seeking Spell [seeks out blood-filled creatures and deals an extra 1d6 damage if spell deals hit point damage], Awaken Blood [touch attack to make blood try to leave targets body all at once], or lastly Blood Walk [like Tree Walk, but only creatures with blood, and can deal damage if they fail Fort save]. Granting all of these abilities would give just way too many abilities to keep track of…
-Looking at the Blood Magus, it does mention a list of creatures that aren’t effected by its abilities involving blood. That list entry is written as the following; “Constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, undead, and any creatures without blood or a similar substance within their bodies are immune to this effect.” But as I mentioned above with some of the abilities there are some creatures that might be special circumstances such as a Bloodfire Ooze, the three different undead Bloodhulks, or maybe even the Bloodsilk Spider [MMIV], along with maybe a freshly fed Vampire?
-It seems that a majority of your abilities are located in the early half of your career as an adventurer, with quite a few later levels just being upgrades of those abilities.
-Now for some reason I can see Vampires going out of their way to hunt down these Bloodspilts just to feed on them if not to turn them. Now the question that some classes with abilities keyed off Con switch to Cha when they lose their Con score, would this apply in this case?
-You do realize that you now need to ‘brew creations for these guys to use like a Blood Golem, a ‘superior’ Bloodfeeding/Implacable/Vampiric [MiC] weapon enhancements, not to mention Epic progression since you’ve opened the doorway for casting Epic spells right?
-I’m sadly the kind of person that kept noticing the spelling mistakes [Bloodspilt being misspelled once] and several explanations could be worded differently. Granted this is a rough draft of your work that is okay, but to be taken more seriously it could help to do up a better format. (like I’m one to talk compared to some of the expert works done by individuals like [insert usernames]…)

And that’s about all that I can think off to comment/critique/suggest on your work as it is now. Hope that any/all of what I said gives you ideas or help with future upgrades to come a bit closer to finishing a nice piece of work with interesting abilities. Good luck, and keep up the hard work!

drack
2011-08-23, 12:00 PM
Thanks :smallbiggrin:

Strong Blooded: Well it's healing not temporary healing, but as they don't get any help from healing spells I figured the equivalent of fractional fast healing if they take actions to do so would help offset the horrible minus of being unhealable.

Massive damage: Now I feel silly :smalltongue: I'll toss that higher up, though undead get it easily enough (even with low LA) I'd rather not have this as a dip class)

Stiff Blooded: I'll add something about negative energy, but the healing abilities are extraordinary abilities, not spells/magic

Bloody spell: I should probably add a table to simplify this (or 2), Spells known are as sorcerer. Levels 1-8 it's 3*spell level HP/spell, level 10-16 it's 5*spell level HP/spell, and 17-20 it's 7*spell level HP/spell. Essentially because as they gain more healing and HP I thought it may be better to up the cost so that they don't get cheep level 9 spells. (it was originally just 5*, do you think that would work better?)

Blood pool: Just to be clear Cha for CL , Con for essentially spells (and some abilities)/day (or encounter depending on how lenient your DM is about constant bombardment) As for High con/cha it should only be about as broken as a high spell score sorcerer or the such as the not healing and constant loss of heath should (hopefully if I did this right) only be counterbalanced by the abilities.

Drawing Blood: yup :smallbiggrin: though admittedly it can heal more than a heal spell with equivalent drain, so mostly just helps with the tough balancing act.

Death Blood: I'm gonna say round down. Also I had considered such undeads, but ended up deciding that than you get into arguments about what's bloody and what's not, and you may just have someone commanding bloody undead as back up health which I'd rather not start. (as big undeads are mostly health tanks waiting to pop)

Armor of Blood: Also don't forget that once it absorbs 1HP/HP invested it flakes off which essentially means that it only saves you if cast in advance, or as being used to use pool for HP

Bloodless: that was the intention, but keeping in mind that con drain brings more trouble than just the ignored HP trouble I think it's balanced, thoughts?

Quickened Heart: Yes, that would do it too if you were a literal mechanics whore :smalltongue: (not my word, but it fits too well here to ignore)

Hail of Gore: I was thinking the raw magical energy kind, keeping in mind that this ability effectively takes 2 standard actions to use, It may be balanced, but I think I'll halve the damage anyways just cuz it is a lower level ability :smallbiggrin:

Stimulate Blood Flow: Well I'd say that since it's the mechanics of lay on hands it'd hurt them, and personally I'd fluff it in a "that's really not supposed to go there..." manner with the blood bursting through ancient deteriorated vanes and such :smallbiggrin:

Master of Cuts: Somewhat masochistic I guess, and I decided not to do piercing simply because they don't bleed as much and you're able to absorb dead things anyways, I considered wounding, but I think this is powerful enough as is. :smallbiggrin: I'll add an exclusion to you essentially taking half damage :smallbiggrin:

Bloodthirst: good idea :smallbiggrin: lets make it a fort save, though admittedly at this level this ability won't do much it can at least in combat replace strong blooded (and a level 20 when you get 10-40 a level 9 spell will cost 63. Just something to keep in mind)

Blood shield: so lets assume level 20 maximized fireball on you, you take 20X6+10/ally damage rather than each taking 20x6. It really hurts you, and that good old evasion won't save you anymore, but all the same it could be good, yet it's nowhere's near invincible :smalltongue: (alternatively one may be able to shield a whole city were they willing to drop down to 1hp right before being city/nuked...)

Blood Mingling: well if you're pool is large enough... Also when someone's about dead 20d6hp helps :smallbiggrin: Tempted to double it making it a stronger 'healing sting' spell equivalent, but I don't want the rare 2 bloodspilt team to have a charge up that easily

Blood Pledge: Foolish rogue contending with forces beyond their reach. "Forever thou shalt weary and suffer as thou shalt forever be named othbreaker by thine own blood." Nah, I got this idea mostly from the idea of bargains with fey, so they shouldn't be made lightly, or ever left unfulfilled. Note that it''s a bit harder for the bloodspilt to be free of it as them must die, miracle/wish, than come back to be rid of it. So not that vow that you quickly break... (to answer your question DM decides)

Control Blood: really? I think these guys would do just fine as vampires :smalltongue: They make their own blood too :smallbiggrin: Hmm, well I was thinking it'd be nice to be free of both, but vampirism isn't really so much a disease as a state of being... not to mention the ability to resist it would kill you... if you really want to resist though you could take advantage of the 1con/50hp exchange... (they need to drain your con, you can kill yourself first I suppose)

Blood Siblings: that's really a shield other question and I'd say it depends on your DM. The ability joins you two, not them to each other, but if you have a DM that thinks of it as taking damage when you take it from shield other.

Of the old blood: SR never stacks so far as I know, you just use the higher one, and "against that one spell this round", so only lasts for the one spell

Wall of Blood: lets make it 1" thick (magically strong if you will) , I should add some time limit, you can make a few if you want, entire wall splashes down, It's rock hard so no luck with water, it has no alignment as it is merely an inanimate object, I think it should be x-ray able. Hmm, you have a point with 'stationary'... lets go with glued to the ground type. I'm thinking not through solid surfaces (like rock), but blocking underground tunnels caught in the way and such.

Blood of My Blood: I know, this is the one ability I'm iffy on, but I could easily do far worse with a cleric of such levels...

Misc:
-yes, the slot is just a slot once you get it
-yes that is too much :smalltongue: Blood walk looked cool, but it's a bit strong to add on, familiar I decided not to do, or golem, or any similar thing because I didn't wanna give it extra HP sources even in the form of others, though I won't limit the lack thereof if pleyers really want one. I already have something that steals their blood, spell slots from blood is bout as good as storing spells there in some ways, I guess I could squeeze in auto-stabilize, Blood Seeking Spell: ahh, forgot that I was gonna throw in something like life sense... guess I'll do that now :smallbiggrin:
-Yes, they do mostly upgrade which annoyed me when I got halfway through and found that there wasn't much more to add, but the upgrading ones add up at those levels and you get a few later such as the bonds.
-Heh... I hadn't really thought of con-->cha. I guess they'd probably just loose use of them, but even than they'd be fine. They could get something with unholy toughness, or deal with their DM to let them keep their HP gifted by con right before they turned. Either way the maxed d12 HDs will fill the gap a bit, and any DM who values common sense would naturally bar them from dry liches or the such :smalltongue:
-"You do realize that you now need to ‘brew...'" nah, I'm just gonna leave that door open :smalltongue: (see above why I didn't go into minions)
-yeah, I'm gonna blame my keybord... it doesn't like me and can be a pain.

Igneel
2011-08-24, 10:05 AM
Thanks :smallbiggrin:

Strong Blooded: Well it's healing not temporary healing, but as they don't get any help from healing spells I figured the equivalent of fractional fast healing if they take actions to do so would help offset the horrible minus of being unhealable.

Which is understandable considering that they are in dire need for some form of healing at lower levels at least, what with being quite squishy even with a high Con and max HP every level.

Massive damage: Now I feel silly :smalltongue: I'll toss that higher up, though undead get it easily enough (even with low LA) I'd rather not have this as a dip class)

I like the replacement of Auto-stabilization with Massive damage immunity. Definitely not at least a single level dip now, especially with the ‘immune to healing’ drawback ruining all of those Optimizers wet dreams.

Stiff Blooded: I'll add something about negative energy, but the healing abilities are extraordinary abilities, not spells/magic

Now I’m thinking about Plane traits like the Positive Plane’s [and Negative Plane to a lesser extent] ‘Fast Healing’ trait that for normal people could effectively make them explode from too much healing. Granted I don’t know if that is considered a ‘magic’ source I thought I would throw that out now that I thought of it.

Bloody spell: I should probably add a table to simplify this (or 2), Spells known are as sorcerer. Levels 1-8 it's 3*spell level HP/spell, level 10-16 it's 5*spell level HP/spell, and 17-20 it's 7*spell level HP/spell. Essentially because as they gain more healing and HP I thought it may be better to up the cost so that they don't get cheep level 9 spells. (it was originally just 5*, do you think that would work better?)

Hmmm… Lets try to make a comparison of levels [I’ll try to go for a character using stats similar to the DMG Sorcerer example, but buying stat enhancers ASAP] Hopefully this exercise will help some.

Starting stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
Increased Ability Scores: 4th, Cha 15; 8th, Con 16; 12th, Cha 16; 16th, Con 17; 20th, Cha 17

Human Bloodspilt lvl 1
Stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
Notable modifiers: None
WBL: Starting Gold
Spells Known \ Per day: 4/2+1 \ 5/3
HP/‘Blood Points’: 1d4+2= 6/-
Casting limit: 3HP short of casting all spells with minimum of 0HP remaining

lvl 1
0-5 = 0x3=0x5=0
1-3 = 1x3=3x3=9
Total: 9

Human Bloodspilt lvl 5
Stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 17
Notable modifiers: +2 items to Con and Cha
WBL 9k-8k for items
Spells Known \ Per day: 6/4+1/2+1 \ 6/6/4
HP/‘Blood Points’: 5d4+15= 35/[12+3]*5= 12*5=75
Casting limit: 7HP short of casting all spells with minimum of 0HP remaining, or have 33 ‘blood points’ remaining if strictly Blood pool

lvl 5
0-6 = 0x3=0x6=0
1-6 = 1x3=3x6=18
2-4 = 2x3=6x4=24
Total: 42

Human Bloodspilt lvl 10
Stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 20
Notable modifiers: +4 item for Con, +5 item for Cha
WBL 49k-41k for items
Spells Known \ Per day: 9/5+2/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1 \ 6/6/6/6/5/3
HP/‘Blood Points’: 10d4+50= 90/[12+5]*[10*1.5]= 17*15=255
Casting limit: 123HP short of casting all spells with minimum of 0HP remaining, or have 42 ‘blood points’ remaining if strictly Blood pool

lvl 10
0-6 = 0x3=0x6=0
1-6 = 1x3=3x6=18
2-6 = 2x3=6x6=36
3-6 = 3x3=9x6=54
4-5 = 4x3=12x5=60
5-3 = 5x3=15x3=45
Total: 213

Human Bloodspilt lvl 15
Stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 22
Notable modifiers: +6 Belt Magnificence
WBL 200k-200k for Belt
Spells Known \ Per day: 9/5+2/5+2/4+1/4+1/4+1/3+1/2 \ 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
HP/‘Blood Points’: 15d4+90= 150/[12+6]*[15*1.5]= 18*22.5=405
Casting limit: 312HP short of casting all spells with minimum of 0HP remaining, or have -57 ‘blood points’ remaining if strictly Blood pool

lvl 15
0-6 = 0x3=0x6=0
1-6 = 1x3=3x6=18
2-6 = 2x3=6x6=36
3-6 = 3x3=9x6=54
4-6 = 4x3=12x6=72
5-6 = 5x3=15x6=90
6-6 = 6x3=18x6=108
7-4 = 7x3=21x4=84
Total: 462

Human Bloodspilt lvl 20
Stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 28, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 28
Notable modifiers: +6 Belt +5 Tome/Manual for Cha/Con
WBL 760k-475k for items
Spells Known \ Per day: 9/5+3+2/5+2/4+2/4+2/4+2/3+1/3+1/3+1/3+1 \ 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6
HP/‘Blood Points’: 20d4+180= 260/[12+9]*[20*2]= 21*40=840
Casting limit: 568HP short of casting all spells with minimum of 0HP remaining, or have 12 ‘blood points’ remaining if strictly Blood pool

lvl 20
0-6 = 0x3=0x6=0
1-6 = 1x3=3x6=18
2-6 = 2x3=6x6=36
3-6 = 3x3=9x6=54
4-6 = 4x3=12x6=72
5-6 = 5x3=15x6=90
6-6 = 6x3=18x6=108
7-6 = 7x3=21x6=126
8-6 = 8x3=24x6=144
9-4 = 9x5=45x4=180
Total: 828



Blood pool: Just to be clear Cha for CL , Con for essentially spells (and some abilities)/day (or encounter depending on how lenient your DM is about constant bombardment) As for High con/cha it should only be about as broken as a high spell score sorcerer or the such as the not healing and constant loss of heath should (hopefully if I did this right) only be counterbalanced by the abilities.

I understand. And thus far from my attempts at math it seems to work the majority of the time. Granted my example above for lvl 15 seemed to be the only one to break the pattern.

Drawing Blood: yup :smallbiggrin: though admittedly it can heal more than a heal spell with equivalent drain, so mostly just helps with the tough balancing act.

Just by going with the lvl 15-lvl 20 examples I used this definitely seems to be the case since according to the Heal spell it can only heal a maximum of 150hp, with you having enough ‘blood points’ to heal you at least 3x to max HP. So yes I would agree that this seems to balance it out with the cost of having to lose the chance of casting a few spells till you re-fill.

Death Blood: I'm gonna say round down. Also I had considered such undeads, but ended up deciding that than you get into arguments about what's bloody and what's not, and you may just have someone commanding bloody undead as back up health which I'd rather not start. (as big undeads are mostly health tanks waiting to pop)

Round down sounds like the safe route. And that is understandable since players would obviously go out of their way to find ways to get such creatures as minions or something just back up health packs. I guess you should do something like adding the clause that goes along the lines of Blood magus that says
“Constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, undead, and any creatures without blood or a similar substance within their bodies are immune to this effect.”
Along the lines of the Dm ruling with some creatures like the Warforged, since from what I understand some Dms let them have a ‘blood-like substance’ for Artificer Homunculus’s that require a pint of blood from the creator.

Armor of Blood: Also don't forget that once it absorbs 1HP/HP invested it flakes off which essentially means that it only saves you if cast in advance, or as being used to use pool for HP

I almost forgot about that. I just was pointing out at first I thought I could go Pun-Pun on DR till that limit gets in the way. Still happy about how balanced it is.

Bloodless: that was the intention, but keeping in mind that con drain brings more trouble than just the ignored HP trouble I think it's balanced, thoughts?

I only know of one class that purposefully makes you lose Con points, which is that Warlock PrC, in exchange for some extra damage for their main form of attacking with Eldritch Blast. Granted that class can’t get it back without some form of Restoration or other spell that heals Ability damage/drain.
I’m unfortunately not all that keen on what’s balanced or not, but I don’t think people will go out of their way to lose more then a few Con points just to re-fill their Blood pool, so I’m going to vote for yes.

Quickened Heart: Yes, that would do it too if you were a literal mechanics whore :smalltongue: (not my word, but it fits too well here to ignore)

Nope, not a whore. Or at least the last time I checked I wasn’t…

Hail of Gore: I was thinking the raw magical energy kind, keeping in mind that this ability effectively takes 2 standard actions to use, It may be balanced, but I think I'll halve the damage anyways just cuz it is a lower level ability :smallbiggrin:

Hmm… Should there be some description as to how that ‘raw magical energy’ is affected or effects things? Sort of like how the Acid Blood spell [if I remember the name right] temporarily turns your blood into acid, or like an Energy Shield aura from the Dragon Shaman is a energy damage. ‘Arcane fire’ makes me think that there is either magic or fire involved, so players might question if Spell or Fire Resistance/Immunity might weaken or flat out cancel the ability. Like (for example) if its like the Warlock’s Eldritch Blast which is subject to SR but not Fire Resistance/Immunity (unless using a fire damage invocation) that would be nice to know. Or it could be a type of damage not reduced in any way, since your weakening it, and there is no way to ‘maximize’ the damage. Not to mention that its like a fighter tossing his armor off himself, or a barbarian losing his DR till you can get a new ‘suit’ back on.

Stimulate Blood Flow: Well I'd say that since it's the mechanics of lay on hands it'd hurt them, and personally I'd fluff it in a "that's really not supposed to go there..." manner with the blood bursting through ancient deteriorated vanes and such :smallbiggrin:

I like the sounds of it, though of course there has to be a clause needed to explain it could only be used on undead that has veins of some sort, since skeletons for example don’t have any at all.

Master of Cuts: Somewhat masochistic I guess, and I decided not to do piercing simply because they don't bleed as much and you're able to absorb dead things anyways, I considered wounding, but I think this is powerful enough as is. :smallbiggrin: I'll add an exclusion to you essentially taking half damage :smallbiggrin:

Not allowing piercing does make more sense now that I think about it. Course a DM can always rule other wise, like if a player uses something like a Burrowing/Piercing arrow that goes straight through the enemy. I think not including wounding and taking half damage are smart ideas for balance reasons. Besides, a PrC could always be made if someone wants to go a different route anyways…

Bloodthirst: good idea :smallbiggrin: lets make it a fort save, though admittedly at this level this ability won't do much it can at least in combat replace strong blooded (and a level 20 when you get 10-40 a level 9 spell will cost 63. Just something to keep in mind)

I was just thinking about how I think I saw an ability that draws moisture out of a target and they get a save to try and either half or negate the effect, but now I can’t for the life of me remember what it was or where it came from. Granted I can see this as one of several abilities for regaining health/’blood points’, if not the more powerful method for the majority of the time.
But looking at how Touch AC doesn’t really scale with CR [example: Hecatoncheires [Epic Handbook, CR 57] has around a Touch AC of 28 vs Normal AC of 70] just thought that would also balance it some. Course xd4 damage isn’t as much as most Touch spells could cause if a Optimizer tried.

Blood shield: so lets assume level 20 maximized fireball on you, you take 20X6+10/ally damage rather than each taking 20x6. It really hurts you, and that good old evasion won't save you anymore, but all the same it could be good, yet it's nowhere's near invincible :smalltongue: (alternatively one may be able to shield a whole city were they willing to drop down to 1hp right before being city/nuked...)

That is true. But you saw what I meant though if you had a companion that had this ability as well, players would try to shield each other for as long as they could.
Bloodspilt 1: “I Blood shield x players, including Bloodspilt 2”
Bloodspilt 2: “I Blood shield x [different] players, including Bloodspilt 1…”

Blood Mingling: well if you're pool is large enough... Also when someone's about dead 20d6hp helps :smallbiggrin: Tempted to double it making it a stronger 'healing sting' spell equivalent, but I don't want the rare 2 bloodspilt team to have a charge up that easily

True, a duo of Bloodspilts would be quite problem-matic.

Blood Pledge: Foolish rogue contending with forces beyond their reach. "Forever thou shalt weary and suffer as thou shalt forever be named othbreaker by thine own blood." Nah, I got this idea mostly from the idea of bargains with fey, so they shouldn't be made lightly, or ever left unfulfilled. Note that it''s a bit harder for the bloodspilt to be free of it as them must die, miracle/wish, than come back to be rid of it. So not that vow that you quickly break... (to answer your question DM decides)

Yeah I guess so. I just think that most players would prefer to get more out of it besides a near unescapable promise till they fulfill it. Even in Harry Potter (that spell Snape had cast on him that forced him to kill Dumbledore to keep Draco safe) the threat of death hung over Snape’s head till he fulfilled the promise.

Control Blood: really? I think these guys would do just fine as vampires :smalltongue: They make their own blood too :smallbiggrin: Hmm, well I was thinking it'd be nice to be free of both, but vampirism isn't really so much a disease as a state of being... not to mention the ability to resist it would kill you... if you really want to resist though you could take advantage of the 1con/50hp exchange... (they need to drain your con, you can kill yourself first I suppose)

I guess I continue thinking of vampirism as either a supernatural disease or some form of curse rather then a state of being (save for some mythology creatures like succubus that are considered vampires as well as demons.) So then I guess better supernatural diseases are Mummy Rot or Lycanthropy… And agreed on these making cool vampire/spawns.

Blood Siblings: that's really a shield other question and I'd say it depends on your DM. The ability joins you two, not them to each other, but if you have a DM that thinks of it as taking damage when you take it from shield other.

I keep forgetting that Wizards didn’t really do a good job explaining that kind of event. If a Dm does rule that, god save your soul…
*[Single or multiple Siblings] Gets hit by really big hit.
*Shield Other activates and deals damage to participates.
*Activates again after taking Shield other damage.
*Rinse Repeat till either death or damage runs out.
Now I want to do research on this for a possible character idea…

Of the old blood: SR never stacks so far as I know, you just use the higher one, and "against that one spell this round", so only lasts for the one spell

For some reason I forgot that for most things like DR and SR they don’t stack. As I said before, ‘Stupid question for stupid answer’

Wall of Blood: lets make it 1" thick (magically strong if you will) , I should add some time limit, you can make a few if you want, entire wall splashes down, It's rock hard so no luck with water, it has no alignment as it is merely an inanimate object, I think it should be x-ray able. Hmm, you have a point with 'stationary'... lets go with glued to the ground type. I'm thinking not through solid surfaces (like rock), but blocking underground tunnels caught in the way and such.

*1” thick sounds reasonable
*Time limit: Definitely, otherwise you’ll have Wall of Stone city builders
*Multiple Walls: Now you just need to get out of the first one somehow….
*Entire wall breaks: Thought that would be important to detail
*Water has no effect: Thought that would be important to detail, kind of like the Walker in the Waste’s Salt Pillar ability and its interaction with water can destroy whatever gets turned into salt.
*Alignment: I meant for general ‘Detect X’ spells. If I remember right some can’t detect through x amount of material [ex: x inches of wood vs x-y inches of stone] Forgot where that is exactly, away from books.
*X-ray: I think the only thing that is nearly un-x-ray-able is lead anyways.
*Stationary: So more like a Wall of Stone’s “anchored to a solid surface” kind of effect comes closest to that.
*Alright, so just as long as your not fighting a Earth Elemental that is Earth gliding, you have no real worries outside of a Disintegration spell. XD

Kinda upset that now a tarrasque can’t just chuck the party hiding in a bubble of hardened blood in the air, but I can live with the image.

Blood of My Blood: I know, this is the one ability I'm iffy on, but I could easily do far worse with a cleric of such levels...

This is always true. As of late I seem to keep having to say that whenever someone mentions either clerics or wizards…
Not to mention that the grand majority of the followers are going to be lvl 1s anyways, I suppose only a Thrallherd/Necromancer-styled character wouldn’t care anyways.

Misc:
-yes, the slot is just a slot once you get it
Alright, nice to know.
-yes that is too much :smalltongue: Blood walk looked cool, but it's a bit strong to add on, familiar I decided not to do, or golem, or any similar thing because I didn't wanna give it extra HP sources even in the form of others, though I won't limit the lack thereof if pleyers really want one. I already have something that steals their blood, spell slots from blood is bout as good as storing spells there in some ways, I guess I could squeeze in auto-stabilize, Blood Seeking Spell: ahh, forgot that I was gonna throw in something like life sense... guess I'll do that now :smallbiggrin:
I suppose most of those abilities should stick to just being PrC abilities just because of the ‘prestigious’ feeling you would get to use them. A homunculus familiar could be obtained just by using a couple of feats. Golems would be too used as extra HP sources by the majority of players I’d hate to say it, if not tanks. Potions from blood was a stupid suggestion/idea now that I look back at it. Out of all of these the Blood Seeking does sound the ‘best’ base class-like ability a blood-themed class would get anyways.
-Yes, they do mostly upgrade which annoyed me when I got halfway through and found that there wasn't much more to add, but the upgrading ones add up at those levels and you get a few later such as the bonds.
Granted I found this out with my own works I ended up taking some things off in my vain attempt to give it some abilities later on that didn’t really offer all that much. I still have much to learn and work on, but then again I guess its a learning experience.
-Heh... I hadn't really thought of con-->cha. I guess they'd probably just loose use of them, but even than they'd be fine. They could get something with unholy toughness, or deal with their DM to let them keep their HP gifted by con right before they turned. Either way the maxed d12 HDs will fill the gap a bit, and any DM who values common sense would naturally bar them from dry liches or the such :smalltongue:
Dry liches, or homebrewed Unholy Toughness feat or the like would be fun to play with this…
-"You do realize that you now need to ‘brew...'" nah, I'm just gonna leave that door open :smalltongue: (see above why I didn't go into minions)
Bah, I’m almost tempted to try my hand at making some supplement material for your class now for some reason. Maybe Vampire substitution levels/PrC XD
-yeah, I'm gonna blame my keybord... it doesn't like me and can be a pain.
Don’t we all blame the keyboard? Why do you think I type things up on Notepad, copy+paste into Word, fix anything I can find, copy+paste onto post (or at least that’s what I did with my class and my two replies for this thread)?


And with that attempt at giving more advice, I now need to get to my own work for a spell and get to work answering replies there. Especially now that I see you've kindly taken the time to return the favor. Again, I hope this helps in some way or form.

drack
2011-08-24, 10:54 AM
Well thanks again. Just read it, but I'm gonna take my time replying since you appear to have a bit on your plate anyways. Also I decided that you're probably right about adding PRCs, but I'm at least gonna wait until I finish my 3 class theme. :smallbiggrin: First utilizes bodies (from skeletons to fresh kills), second uses blood, third will be 'fleshmonger' and will be more melee-ish :smalltongue: I gave them a few thoughts before whipping this up, but really I just feel that I'll need motivation to work it out mechanically. Just something to bring this to mind and keep it there like a Gorey movie parred with a day off :smallcool: (so don't expect it soon) Anyways here's what I jotted down before as an introduction:
Fleshmongers are the most gruesome of warriors in the world, not made for neat duels, perhaps not even fit for war. They were once people, combat instincts have taken most of their minds. They are the bloody warrior who ripped of your comrade's head in order to hurl it at you. When you charge Them with a sword they rip off your other arm with which to parry, when you try to burn the monster it tears out the innards of a bystander to douse your flame with their blood... needs a bit more :smallbiggrin: Essentially the idea being an improvised weapons system made from anyone who happens to be around you at the time :smallbiggrin:

So I'll rel=ply later and would be pleased if you revisited this at a later time to take a peek (you know, when you have time) :smallbiggrin:

Igneel
2011-08-24, 11:24 AM
Well thanks again. Just read it, but I'm gonna take my time replying since you appear to have a bit on your plate anyways. Also I decided that you're probably right about adding PRCs, but I'm at least gonna wait until I finish my 3 class theme. :smallbiggrin: First utilizes bodies (from skeletons to fresh kills), second uses blood, third will be 'fleshmonger' and will be more melee-ish :smalltongue: I gave them a few thoughts before whipping this up, but really I just feel that I'll need motivation to work it out mechanically. Just something to bring this to mind and keep it there like a Gorey movie parred with a day off :smallcool: (so don't expect it soon) Anyways here's what I jotted down before as an introduction:
Fleshmongers are the most gruesome of warriors in the world, not made for neat duels, perhaps not even fit for war. They were once people, combat instincts have taken most of their minds. They are the bloody warrior who ripped of your comrade's head in order to hurl it at you. When you charge Them with a sword they rip off your other arm with which to parry, when you try to burn the monster it tears out the innards of a bystander to douse your flame with their blood... needs a bit more :smallbiggrin: Essentially the idea being an improvised weapons system made from anyone who happens to be around you at the time :smallbiggrin:

So I'll rel=ply later and would be pleased if you revisited this at a later time to take a peek (you know, when you have time) :smallbiggrin:

Taking your time to do the PrCs is of course up to you, and despite as much as I can heckle, probe, nag, etc I can't change your mind. While yes I am quite busy with my own and its eventual PrCs, I do like throwing out ideas occasionally which often times leads my mind astray. So go on and take as much time as you need for the other two [or even more] ideas of classes you come up with before doing so, its only fair to you.

I will only come back later if you do the same for me as well, after all that's what the Homebrew section of these forums are meant for. I like to try and help when/where I can but as stated above, I don't always come up with the best of critiques/suggestions and am only listened to for so long.

Edit: Going to drop off a few images I found that seem interestingly blood-themed. You don't have to use them, but I thought I'd drop them off.


http://th05.deviantart.net/fs42/PRE/f/2009/094/f/f/Blood_Summons_by_Saehral.jpg
Image is "Blood Summons" by Saehral (http://saehral.deviantart.com/) from Deviantart.com


http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs14/i/2007/032/8/b/Blood__s_wave_by_blackstarsshine.jpg
Image is "Blood's Wave" by blackstarshine (http://blackstarsshine.deviantart.com/) from Deviantart.com

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs16/f/2007/152/8/8/Blood_Magic_by_GENZOMAN.jpg
Image is "Blood Magic" by GENOZMAN (http://genzoman.deviantart.com/) from Deviantart.com

drack
2011-08-24, 02:29 PM
Oh no I already did the first :smalltongue: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168624 (warning, posting there is necromancy), I just thought three gruesome base classes together would do nicely, and the original intention was 2 casters and a meeler... than again I suppose I did want to rework that spell list... oh eventually. All in good time and all that jazz. As for going back to yours I'll probably do so regardless. :smallbiggrin: I just happen to be one of those people who expects allot from them self than has to push everything back as a result :smallbiggrin:

...OK, lets hack this up already :smallbiggrin:

"Now I’m thinking about Plane traits like the Positive Plane’s [and Negative Plane to a lesser extent] ‘Fast Healing’ trait that for normal people could effectively make them explode from too much healing. Granted I don’t know if that is considered a ‘magic’ source I thought I would throw that out now that I thought of it." I said they can't heal from pos/neg, that should cover instantaneous healing and fast healing :smalltongue: If a DM allows it it's cool, but they'll have that if they want to use it :smallbiggrin:

"Bloody spell/spell pool"
You did it wrong :smallbiggrin: you forgot to scale the multiplier. that puts it a bit below assuming no con op, but that's supposed to be that way to be counterbalanced by the abilities :smallbiggrin:


"Just by going with the lvl 15-lvl 20 examples I used this definitely seems to be the case since according to the Heal spell it can only heal a maximum of 150hp, with you having enough ‘blood points’ to heal you at least 3x to max HP. So yes I would agree that this seems to balance it out with the cost of having to lose the chance of casting a few spells till you re-fill." still good?

"I’m unfortunately not all that keen on what’s balanced or not, but I don’t think people will go out of their way to lose more then a few Con points just to re-fill their Blood pool, so I’m going to vote for yes."
Yeah, but it's one of those blood caster ideas that goes around to use con for spells. Anyways do you think this would be too broken as a free action, standard to reverse? (as is it's standard both ways which means it gets no real use later on)
"Nope, not a whore. Or at least the last time I checked I wasn’t…"
Nah, I was half joking. My last DM called people who optimized on feats feat whores, but I was using it in the context of sleeping around all the time for more fast healing mechanics whore because they'd be being a whore (literally) for the sake of mechanical manipulations :smallbiggrin:

I like the sounds of it, though of course there has to be a clause needed to explain it could only be used on undead that has veins of some sort, since skeletons for example don’t have any at all.
... All I can say is that's defiantly not supposed to go in there
:smallwink: fluff and mechanics still work.

"Besides, a PrC could always be made if someone wants to go a different route anyways…" you do know that if/when I make a PRC it's going to have even more ideas that you'll wish you could expand not less right? :smalltongue:

"That is true. But you saw what I meant though if you had a companion that had this ability as well, players would try to shield each other for as long as they could.
Bloodspilt 1: “I Blood shield x players, including Bloodspilt 2”
Bloodspilt 2: “I Blood shield x [different] players, including Bloodspilt 1…”"
OH... I see what you're thinking, no, no, no, no, no, no. You see the one shielding takes 10+full damage with no save for partial. Thus if 2 shielded each other they each take full+10, not 10 :smallbiggrin:

"Yeah I guess so. I just think that most players would prefer to get more out of it besides a near unescapable promise till they fulfill it. Even in Harry Potter (that spell Snape had cast on him that forced him to kill Dumbledore to keep Draco safe) the threat of death hung over Snape’s head till he fulfilled the promise."
So we're thinking upping it to a bloodline curse? That's an idea... I like it :smallbiggrin:

"So then I guess better supernatural diseases are Mummy Rot or Lycanthropy" I think this is again just convince you're DM. but things like contagion should be easy enough :smallbiggrin:

"Now I want to do research on this for a possible character idea…" That's When clerics become truly deadly is with that spell (and other similarly fun spells)...

‘Stupid question for stupid answer’
I prefer 'silly' it sounds less self deprecating :smallbiggrin:

"Now you just need to get out of the first one somehow…." does sorcerer casting help with that? :smallamused:

"Water has no effect: Thought that would be important to detail..." Normally it's when it does have an effect that it needs stating :smallbiggrin:

"Blood of My Blood" No, my fears on this are that you get someone with healing or the such and they give you 50/round I mean what can be worse than that? Oh yeah that's riight. 2. :smallbiggrin:

"yes, the slot is just a slot once you get it " besides the whole only lasting one round thing :smallbiggrin:

"but then again I guess its a learning experience." That's what living's for. :smallbiggrin:

"Dry liches, or homebrewed Unholy Toughness feat or the like would be fun to play with this…" Tempted to fix this 'glitch' :smallamused:, but I think loosing con based abilities trade off is enough to discourage it as is.

"Bah, I’m almost tempted to try my hand at making some supplement material for your class now for some reason. Maybe Vampire substitution levels/PrC XD" Hmm... that's actually a good idea :smallbiggrin: I could make a PRC that requires the equivalent of vampirism, but that it works differently for them... :smallamused: now I'm gonna have to do this

"Don’t we all blame the keyboard? " Yes we do and I'm proud of it. :smallbiggrin:


I noticed the ever popular blood golem and blood wings in your images :smalltongue: maybe for the eventual PRC :smallbiggrin:

PM:

This is going to be VERY LONG SIR. Feel free to post this in your homebrew thread if you wish. I rewrote some of it, not in terms of game effects (though there was some of that), but mainly in terms of language: grammar, spelling, consistency of terminology, etc.

I wrote this intending for you to look at what you wrote and what I wrote side by side to catch all the changes to mechanics and whatnot, so I didn't spell them out.

I made a very intentional design choice below that is a decent deviation from what you had written.

I removed the ability for any class ability after first level to be triggered by HP. Everything should be managed by the Blood Points (BP) in the Blood Pool. Effective usage of BP is the key to the class. By letting stuff trigger off of HP, why bother having the Blood Pool except as an "Emergency Tank", and that just feels kind of lame.
Hmm, well I may have considered it, but that that element of the class keeps the casting stat divided as constitution for more spells, and Cha for more powerful spells.
Obviously, feel free to ignore any or all of my changes/suggestions/etc, just running with what makes sense to me. A couple things will be deal breakers for use in ToH (like the Master of Cuts ability).
Honestly I've never played in a generic game before, so honestly the name means little to me :smalltongue:
Another thing I noticed is that this class is very (very) bottom-heavy with abilities. Levels 8, 9 and 10 are boring to gain, all they do is modify already gained features in minor ways. Level 5 does that AND gives you two new abilities to use. I would spread out the gaining of abilities more.
Yes I know, but as most scale I wasn't sure that I should. If you truly think so than as the second person to point this out I guess I could shift it...
--------
Class features

Abilities based upon using an opponent's blood do not work on select creatures, namely constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, undead unless your DM rules otherwise in special cases.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Bloodspilt are proficient with light armor and simple weapons.

Strong Blooded (Ex): The Bloodspilt are of a hardy race, and can easily take hits that would shake even a raging barbarian. All levels devoted to this class give maximum HP per HD. In addition once per minute a Bloodspilt can heal two HP as a standard action. In addition Bloodspilt automatically stabilize if they fall below 0hp.

My thoughts: The auto-stabilize seems very powerful. I'm trying to think of a good way to limit it (say, you stabilize at 0 but lose 1 hp per round from your blood pool instead, or you auto-stabilize up to Con Mod times per day, or something along these lines).
Well I vary much doubt it will be needed that often, but I guess I can limit it to con mod uses/day to humor you :smallbiggrin:
Stiff Blooded (Ex): Unfortunately, the same rich blood that keeps them so strong is also their downfall. Bloodspilt can’t receive healing (positive or negative) of any kind that does not come from their own bodies. Not even their own magic can heal them.

My thoughts: I would change this wording. "Bloodspilt cannot be healed by any means other than class abilities the specifically heal a Bloodspilt." This should clear up any confusion, and allow for PrCs down the line to stack with Bloodspilt levels. Anyone that makes magic items to get around this restriction should be kicked in the nuts.
Sure, originally I had intended that little things like wholeness of body may also wok, but as the class turned out that shouldn't be too big of a drawback.
Bloody Spell (Ex): The Bloodspilt know spells much as a sorcerer would, but rather than use spell slots Bloodspilts use their own blood to create a spell slot as a free action. Any slot not used the same round it is created is wasted. To create a spell slot, a Bloodspilt must spend three HP per spell level from either their blood pool or taken as damage. Nothing can prevent this HP loss. This HP cost increases by two for every 8 levels after first (so starting at level 9 the cost is 5*spell level and starting at level 17 the cost is 7*spell level). While this makes Constitution their deciding ability in terms of spells/day, Charisma is their casting stat for all other purposes. This ability can’t be used to create spell slots above the level of those known unless the character has taken the epic feat 'Improved Spell Capacity' which rather than granting a spell slot simply allows the caster to create slots of that level.

My thoughts: I'm not sure about the costs, it's a pretty complicated balancing act, so the best thing would be to see it in play.

Blood Pool (Ex): At second level Bloodspilt gain the ability to hold blood in themselves without it circulating throughout their veins. This blood is called their Blood Pool, points in it are referred to as Blood Points (BP). The maximum number of Blood Points that can be held in the Blood Pool is (12+Con Mod) * (Bloodspilt Level/2). The minimum is 12 + Con Mod. At fifth level the maximum doubles to (12+Con Mod) * (Bloodspilt Level), at tenth level it becomes (12+Con Mod) * (Bloodspilt Level*3/2), and at twentieth level it becomes (12+Con Mod) * (Bloodspilt Level*2). A Blood Pool can only be filled either through the Strong Blooded healing ability, or through willingly transferring HP to it. Converting HP to BP is a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The only limit on converting is that BP can never exceed the maximum.

My thoughts: An interesting mechanic for sure. Really hard to comment beyond that without seeing it in play.

Drawing Blood (Ex): At second level Bloodspilt gain the ability to draw Blood Points from their Blood Pool. The Bloodspilt regains HP equal to half the BP withdrawn, rounded down. This ability can be used 2/day, but is usually a last resort.

My thoughts: Might want to scale uses with level? Con?
I was actually considering that... may as well :smallbiggrin:
Death Blood (Ex): At third level a Bloodspilt can claim the blood of corpses, assuming it has fresh blood in it. The creature can be deceased for no more than Con Mod * Bloodspilt level minutes, and it must have the appropriate biology [DM discretion]. This ability adds Blood Points equal to a tenth of the deceased creature's max HP to the Bloodspilt's Blood Pool, and causes the corpse to fall to dust as the Disintegrate spell.

My thoughts: I think you might want to make it give BP based on the age, but maybe that's too much bookkeeping. I added the age to try and remove some of the discretion in favor of clear guidance, I also removed the reference to enemies because that seems awfully restrictive (and perhaps even open to messing with).
huh :smallconfused: I don't see the word 'enemy' in the above ability, though I figure that with age generally comes advancement, so in effect it's simpler to just go with a fractional HD, though I should add to round down
Armor of Blood (Ex): At level three the Bloodspilt can harden their blood and wear it as armor. This ability can be used two ways, the first is to give 20 BP per point of damage reduction desired. The BP harden on the skin, granting the Bloodspilt DR (BP / 20)/-. The other option is to give up 10 BP per point of natural armor bonus desired. The Bloodspilt angles the blood such as to deflect blows. In either case, a Bloodspilt may only have one type of Armor of Blood at a time. This armor flakes off once the Bloodspilt takes damage equal to the BP used to activate the Armor of Blood, or 1hour/level time elapses. No more than 5 BP/level can be used this way.

My thoughts: A level 10 character getting +5 to Natural Armor is very nice, that's a 50,000 gp magic item and level 10 WBL is 49,000.
My initial reaction to this is to double the BP required, especially since as an untyped bonus it stacks with everything else. At level 4, Natural Armor +2 is an 8,000 gp item, and WBL is 5,400.
hmm, well I certainly see your point, but honestly adding an ability to AC is even more powerful yet many classes get along just fine. I just noticed that I do need to prevent people from using armor over this. All the same I don't really see this as so much of a threat especially because a dip for this is rather useless in the long term unlike for example monk or Ur-priests
Bloodless (Ex): At fourth level Bloodspilt can direct their blood away from other areas of their bodies in order to fight longer. At any time, they may take one point of Constitution damage to heal fifty HP. Excess health gained flows into the Bloodspilt's Blood Pool as BP. This Constitution damage does not reduce the Bloodspilt's Con Modifier, but it does stack with any other Con Damage or Drain to determine if the Bloodspilt hits 0 Con. Con Damage taken by this ability may only be healed by the Bloodspilt willingly sacrificing any combination of BP and HP equal to fifty. In addition the Bloodspilt can no longer be subject to bleeding wounds, or death by massive damage. This ability can be used as an immediate action.

My thoughts: The "In Addition" bit feels completely tacked on. You should make that line its own ability (called SUPER CLOTTING or something, I dunno). I changed "Free Action" to "Immediate Action" because I like how 3.5 moved away from free actions to swift/immediate actions. I did that to something else above too, the blood pool I think?
well honestly I've mostly been looking at the titles, and looking through a bunch of abilities for subtle changes in the wording is too much. My control-F can't pick up any other swift/immediate, so I guess not. I suppose immediate works. I had made it free mostly because at higher levels this may be all but useless if it faces too much of a time limit, though just in case the other one you changed was 'bloody spell' I want to point out that that one is vary specifically free because that they can still cast spells with immediate action casting times and quickened as opposed to making the slot only to be unable to cast the spell.
Quickened Heart (Ex): A Bloodspilt of fourth level or higher gains fast healing 1 when their heart rate rises and keeps blood flowing due to excess physical exertion (in combat).

My thoughts: This is going to cause arguments. "Mountain climbing totally causes those conditions, I should get FH 1 for that!" Also, is this FH all combat every combat? That seems very powerful. I know they can't get healed externally, so perhaps it's warranted. This really feels like a class you have to play to get a handle on.
Which is mostly why I'm willing to take nurfs mid-game to the class as it may end up too strong, but consider it this way. strong blooded essentially gives FH1/5 so this is in essence becoming the new real healing even though it doesn't function out of combat unless you have a DM who decides to give it to you. This can be modified since I know nowadays they have more abilities limited to 'in combat' or uses/combat...
Hail of Gore (Ex): At fifth level the Bloodspilt can now cast off their Blood Armor as a full round action spewing the blood from which it is composed at all enemies within a 30' range. As the Bloodspilt does this, the blood itself is imbued with arcane fire and deals 1d8 damage per 10 BP invested in it. Creatures within the area are allowed a Reflex Save with a DC equal to 10 + half the Bloodspilt's level + the Bloodspilt Charisma Modifier for half damage.

My thoughts: All enemies in a 30' radius is very powerful. It selectively avoids allies (which, honestly, makes no sense) and covers a large area. I think it'd be better as a 30' cone that hits everyone in its path.
yup, here I'll drop the word 'enemies', hadn't really been thinking of it as avoiding allies. :smallbiggrin:
Stimulate Blood Flow (Ex): At fifth level a Bloodspilt can stimulate blood flow healing wounds. This ability works similar to Lay on Hands, except that a Bloodspilt can heal up to his Bloodspilt level * his Charisma Bonus * 3 damage per day. If this ability is used on an undead it still deals positive energy damage as Lay on Hands, but does so by stimulating blood flow where no blood should flow essentially crushing the innards of the undead where old veins have crusted over or broken allowing new turrets of blood to surge through and pool within them. This ability even affects undead such as skeletons stimulating blood flow within their bones themselves to the same affect.

My thoughts: I think it's a little silly to treat this like positive energy. I would remove that note, and the comparisons to Lay on Hands. I also think that it should heal any undead that feeds (ghouls, wights, vampires[!], etc) and not affect incorporeal undead. Also, I think maybe this should be based upon Con Mod, not Cha.
Sounds reasonable
Master of Cuts (Ex): At sixth level a Bloodspilt can absorb the blood spilt around him as it worms its way to them. This allows them to gain half the damage dealt by any slashing weapon to anyone else within 30' to be gained into their blood pool. This radius increases to 40' at 8th level, and 50' at 12th

My thoughts: I hate this ability, for two reasons: 1. I think it's probably too powerful, 2. I think it will require way too much bookkeeping. Up until here, this class is interesting and something I'd like to see in action as a test. This ability makes me want to say "no way do I want to deal with that". The fluff text is also fairly vague.

Bloodthirst (Ex): At seventh level, a Bloodspilt gains the ability to attract blood while it is still within the opponent's body. With a successful touch attack, the Bloodspilt deals 1d4 damage per level of the Bloodspilt. Half of the damage dealt by this ability is added to the Bloodspilt's blood pool as BP. The subject may make a Fortitude save for half damage at a DC of 10 + half the Bloodspilt's level + the Bloodspilt's Constitution Modifier.

My thoughts: This is cool. Too bad I bet it never gets used if Master of Cuts sticks around.
How so? Not all sorcerers that I've heard of are good with blades :smallconfused: but point taken on master of cuts... oh well it gets similar things elsewhere so I guess it's not that crucial... yeah, your right. Too much room for abuse :smallsigh:
Blood Shield (Ex): At seventh level a Bloodspilt gains the Blood Shield ability. This allows him to cover adjacent allies with his blood when an area attack that would allow a save for half damage affects them. This protection causes the shielded allies to take no damage. Using this ability is an immediate action that costs the Bloodspilt 10 BP per ally protected in this manner. Using this ability also denies the Bloodspilt his save, meaning he takes full damage from the attack.

My thoughts: This might not cost enough, I don't know.
Well the true cost is loosing your save and needing to take the full thing... This means even if you have evasion you essentially still need to jump into the blast rather than out
Blood Mingling (Ex): At eleventh level a Bloodspilt gains the ability to use his BP to heal others. As a standard action, the Bloodspilt spends 1d6 BP per Bloodspilt level, up to a maximum of the Bloodspilt's current BP, and heals the target a like amount.

My thoughts: Nothing really, other than two healing abilities is a little weird.

Blood Pledge (Ex): This ability allows a Bloodspilt and another to exchange pledges in a bloody rite that binds them to their word. If either side fails to fulfill their pledge they will suffer the effects of fatigue, these effects stack with actual fatigue, and with any other broken pledges. This effect can only be removed by a miracle or wish after the Bloodspilt with whom the pledge was made is dead. (Bloodspilt deal with their shame until they die.) As an alternative the pledge could be made with a curse as by the Bestow curse spell to befall either party if they fail to fulfill their end. In either case this curse carries through their bloodlines affecting the oath breaker's children and their children and so on.

My thoughts: This makes no sense at all, sorry. What benefit is there to this ability?
Similar to ingested poisons it's not so much an outright combat ability, but still something that could be useful that fits the theme
Control Blood (Ex): At this point a Bloodspilt gains greater control over their blood granting him immunity to poison and diseases (magical and non-magical).

My thoughts: This should not include Lycanthropy or Mummy Rot, since those are curses. You might want to spell that out, or leave it to DMs and players to argue over ;).
And you know they will :smallamused: as far as I recall I've stated my opinion but made no true ruling on it :smallwink:
The Pulse (Ex): At fifteenth level the Bloodspilt gain the ability to hear heartbeats within 100' at-will. This ability is akin to life sense except that it only works on creatures with blood of some sort in their veins. Activating or de-activating this ability is a free action.

My thoughts: 100' is pretty far, but its limitations plus not being gained until XL 15 probably makes that no problem.

Blood Siblings (Ex): This ability allows the Bloodspilt to form mystical bonds with their blood brothers and blood sisters. This ability requires a week long ritual in which no more than 1/level may be bonded. Once the ritual is completed you are now bonded by blood. A bond stronger than most bonds of kin through which you share all agonies of your blood. Blood siblings are not made easily, and the process is not reversible through anything short of death. Even resurrection restores the link unless it is done through some means such as cloning from before the bond was made. This bond acts as a permanent two way shield other spell that alerts each other to the pains of the other for as long as they live. These pains feel as your own, and as this is not a magical effect it is not annulled by an antimagic field. Also note that abilities that cost blood aren't considered damage, and as such are not shared through this link.

My thoughts: This reads to me like Blood Pledge, I just don't get it. They have nice fluff, but crunch is either lacking or confusing.

Of the Old Blood (Ex): A Bloodspilt's blood carries a magical resistance from times when magic was everywhere. At eighteenth level, the Bloodspilt gains the ability to tap into this magical resistance. Whenever someone casts a spell that could affect him, the Bloodspilt may sacrifice a spell slot as an immediate action in order to gain Spell Resistance equal to 10 + the Bloodspilt's level + the Bloodspilt's Cha Mod + the spell slot sacrificed vs. that spell. This ability allows you to know whenever magic is being used on you, but doesn't tell you what sort. You may make a Spellcraft check as part of this ability to learn more about the spell targeting you (subject to all of Spellcraft's requirements).

My thoughts: This is way too powerful. Since SR is opposed by a Caster Check this ability is 100% SR vs. any spell. A Caster Check is just 1d20 + Caster Level. So that's max 40 pre-epic. To get 40, a 20th level Bloodspilt just needs Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 10. Easy as cake, especially since Bloodspilts don't have spell slots to use up like Sorcerers do. If it's 10 + 1/2 level + Cha Mod + Spell Sac, that's then Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 20 for 100% resistance, a bit harder. But, it still can easily be 15 (Cha Mod 6 + 9th-level spell) for a DC of 35, damned hard to make on a Caster Level check.

Oh and yes I know, Spell Penetration and all that, but even at +4 (Spell Penetration + Greater Spell Penetration) that's = 14, which at 20th level is not hard (I would expect anyone to have at least +8 Mod in their primary casting stat by now). Add in another +6 to beat SR for various other doofiness, and as written that's Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 20 the Bloodspilt needs to achieve to get 100% resistance. Totally achievable, and as noted above, even if it's not 100%, 75% is easy, and to shake off any 9th-level spell targeting you, I think that's too much.
Honestly there are so many ways to boost CL out there... but I see your point and perhaps 1/2 level would work better. Though I may also point out that essentially this is avoiding an unknown spell at the cost of HP so lets say you use that 9th level slot each time, that's 7*9=63hp/spell and there's still that chance that it could get through
Wall of Blood (Ex): At nineteenth level, a Bloodsplit gains the ability to create a sphere of blood. As a standard action, the Bloodspilt spends 100 BP and erects a 50' radius shell of hardened blood to encase him. The sphere is stationary, has 100HP, 20 hardness, 1" thickness, does not pass through stone, but does pass through surfaces no stronger than paper or cloth. At any time of his choice, the Bloodspilt may allow the sphere to collapse as a move action with no effect to those inside beyond a few red stains. This wall can be seen through with x-ray vision, and it has an overall health total rather than as determined by individual 5x5 squares. It cannot be breached until reduced to 0 HP, at which time the whole effect ends. This effect can lasts 1 hour/level after which the blood flakes away in the wind within minutes. The effect ends if the Bloodspilt dies.

My thoughts: This one actually seems very under powered compared to the rest. Doesn't seem very useful for a 19th level ability (maybe I just lack imagination).
it can be... useful, It can let you catch your breath (heal) a bit, it's keyed to about the same length as master of cuts, and it can b used as a diversion in a few ways.
Blood of My Blood (Ex): You may now form the strongest bonds of all, now your blood siblings are truly of your blood, and may take levels in Bloodspilt. You also gain double the standard flanking bonus when flanking with the blood of your blood, and you may share up to fifty health with a blood sibling as a swift action if they are within 500' of you.

My thoughts: This seems very weak for a capstone ability. Also, the ability to take levels in Bloodspilt once someone reaches XL 20 just seems very odd.
this is actually the ability I'm most worried of abuse for... you see being able to freely receive 50hp/round/blood sibling could be exploited to ignore the healing restriction...

----
Phew, I think that's it.

Overall I'm starting to think this class has way too many little book keeping things that I should work out first, so for the game I think I'm gonna try incantatrix :smallbiggrin: sorry bout that

Archwizard
2011-08-29, 01:09 PM
I should note that I read this thread after I PM'd you, so I didn't know what anyone else's feedback was when I wrote the PM.

Time to reply to replies!

Death Blood

Original
Death Blood(ex:) At third level a Bloodspilt can claim the blood of their enemies corpse (assuming it has moist blood in it), this ability adds a tenth of the deceased HP total to the Bloodspilt's blood pool, and causes the corpse to fall to dust without moisture as the disintegrate spell

Mine
Death Blood (Ex): At third level a Bloodspilt can claim the blood of corpses, assuming it has fresh blood in it. The creature can be deceased for no more than Con Mod * Bloodspilt level minutes, and it must have the appropriate biology [DM discretion]. This ability adds Blood Points equal to a tenth of the deceased creature's max HP to the Bloodspilt's Blood Pool, and causes the corpse to fall to dust as the Disintegrate spell.

My Comment
My thoughts: I think you might want to make it give BP based on the age, but maybe that's too much bookkeeping. I added the age to try and remove some of the discretion in favor of clear guidance, I also removed the reference to enemies because that seems awfully restrictive (and perhaps even open to messing with).

Your Reply
huh I don't see the word 'enemy' in the above ability, though I figure that with age generally comes advancement, so in effect it's simpler to just go with a fractional HD, though I should add to round down

My Reply
You don't see enemy in mine because I removed it from yours. And by age I didn't mean age of the creature, I meant age of the corpse. Sorry for the lack of clarity there. Who wants to absorb 5 day old nasty coagulated blood that's got who knows what growing in it. But actually, as I think about it, that's a horrible idea because it adds too much bookkeeping. I like leaving it as I wrote it is good.


Bloodless

Bloodless (Ex): At fourth level Bloodspilt can direct their blood away from other areas of their bodies in order to fight longer. At any time, they may take one point of Constitution damage to heal fifty HP. Excess health gained flows into the Bloodspilt's Blood Pool as BP. This Constitution damage does not reduce the Bloodspilt's Con Modifier, but it does stack with any other Con Damage or Drain to determine if the Bloodspilt hits 0 Con. Con Damage taken by this ability may only be healed by the Bloodspilt willingly sacrificing any combination of BP and HP equal to fifty. In addition the Bloodspilt can no longer be subject to bleeding wounds, or death by massive damage. This ability can be used as an immediate action.

My Comment
My thoughts: The "In Addition" bit feels completely tacked on. You should make that line its own ability (called SUPER CLOTTING or something, I dunno). I changed "Free Action" to "Immediate Action" because I like how 3.5 moved away from free actions to swift/immediate actions. I did that to something else above too, the blood pool I think?

Your Reply
well honestly I've mostly been looking at the titles, and looking through a bunch of abilities for subtle changes in the wording is too much. My control-F can't pick up any other swift/immediate, so I guess not. I suppose immediate works. I had made it free mostly because at higher levels this may be all but useless if it faces too much of a time limit, though just in case the other one you changed was 'bloody spell' I want to point out that that one is vary specifically free because that they can still cast spells with immediate action casting times and quickened as opposed to making the slot only to be unable to cast the spell.

My Reply
No worries. What I changed was in Blood Pool. I made converting HP to BP a swift action. That means you cannot get BP if it's not your turn, so you can only use immediate action powers if you manage your Blood Pool properly. I think that's a good restriction. I left Bloody Spell as a free action for the reasons you stated. I still think the "in addition" part is tacked on.


Blood Shield
Blood Shield (Ex): At seventh level a Bloodspilt gains the Blood Shield ability. This allows him to cover adjacent allies with his blood when an area attack that would allow a save for half damage affects them. This protection causes the shielded allies to take no damage. Using this ability is an immediate action that costs the Bloodspilt 10 BP per ally protected in this manner. Using this ability also denies the Bloodspilt his save, meaning he takes full damage from the attack.

My Comment
My thoughts: This might not cost enough, I don't know.

Your Reply
Well the true cost is loosing your save and needing to take the full thing... This means even if you have evasion you essentially still need to jump into the blast rather than out

My Reply
Yeah I know, as I said I wasn't sure. Definitely a thing to playtest. Though, as I believe someone else mentioned, you need to put something in to avoid "go team Bloodspilt" where they grant each other immunity. You should probably make the last line "Using this ability also denies the Bloodspilt his save, meaning he takes full damage from the attack and nothing can prevent this damage." Meaning that even Fire Resistance wouldn't help vs. a Fireball if Blood Shield is used.



Of the Old Blood

Of the Old Blood (Ex): A Bloodspilt's blood carries a magical resistance from times when magic was everywhere. At eighteenth level, the Bloodspilt gains the ability to tap into this magical resistance. Whenever someone casts a spell that could affect him, the Bloodspilt may sacrifice a spell slot as an immediate action in order to gain Spell Resistance equal to 10 + the Bloodspilt's level + the Bloodspilt's Cha Mod + the spell slot sacrificed vs. that spell. This ability allows you to know whenever magic is being used on you, but doesn't tell you what sort. You may make a Spellcraft check as part of this ability to learn more about the spell targeting you (subject to all of Spellcraft's requirements).

My Comment
My thoughts: This is way too powerful. Since SR is opposed by a Caster Check this ability is 100% SR vs. any spell. A Caster Check is just 1d20 + Caster Level. So that's max 40 pre-epic. To get 40, a 20th level Bloodspilt just needs Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 10. Easy as cake, especially since Bloodspilts don't have spell slots to use up like Sorcerers do. If it's 10 + 1/2 level + Cha Mod + Spell Sac, that's then Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 20 for 100% resistance, a bit harder. But, it still can easily be 15 (Cha Mod 6 + 9th-level spell) for a DC of 35, damned hard to make on a Caster Level check.

Oh and yes I know, Spell Penetration and all that, but even at +4 (Spell Penetration + Greater Spell Penetration) that's = 14, which at 20th level is not hard (I would expect anyone to have at least +8 Mod in their primary casting stat by now). Add in another +6 to beat SR for various other doofiness, and as written that's Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 20 the Bloodspilt needs to achieve to get 100% resistance. Totally achievable, and as noted above, even if it's not 100%, 75% is easy, and to shake off any 9th-level spell targeting you, I think that's too much.

Your Reply
Honestly there are so many ways to boost CL out there... but I see your point and perhaps 1/2 level would work better. Though I may also point out that essentially this is avoiding an unknown spell at the cost of HP so lets say you use that 9th level slot each time, that's 7*9=63hp/spell and there's still that chance that it could get through

My Reply
Well, here's Spellcraft from the SRD: Spellcraft DC 15 + spell level: Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear the spell’s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry.

If you're able to use 9th-level spell slots and can't beat a Spellcraft DC of 24, the char build police would like to have a word with you. And once you know the spell, deciding how to gamble on it becomes a lot easier. It is a lot of BP, you're right, and that's definitely part of what needs to be seen in play to know how it'll actually work out.

Also, someone else had a good point about how this should not stack with any other source of SR.


Blood of My Blood

Blood of My Blood (Ex): You may now form the strongest bonds of all, now your blood siblings are truly of your blood, and may take levels in Bloodspilt. You also gain double the standard flanking bonus when flanking with the blood of your blood, and you may share up to fifty health with a blood sibling as a swift action if they are within 500' of you.

My Comment
My thoughts: This seems very weak for a capstone ability. Also, the ability to take levels in Bloodspilt once someone reaches XL 20 just seems very odd.

Your Reply
this is actually the ability I'm most worried of abuse for... you see being able to freely receive 50hp/round/blood sibling could be exploited to ignore the healing restriction...

My Reply
Well, that's easy enough to prevent. "You may use this ability on others as often as you want, but you may only benefit from this ability once per (minute/combat/hour/year)."
Or you could be nicer: "You may use this ability on others as often as you want, but you may only benefit once per (minute/combat/hour/year) from each Blood Sibling's use of this ability."

drack
2011-08-29, 07:22 PM
lets get to this :smallbiggrin: (I'm stealing your list without quotes so that you can steal it back later :smallbiggrin:)

Death Blood

Original
Death Blood(ex:) At third level a Bloodspilt can claim the blood of their enemies corpse (assuming it has moist blood in it), this ability adds a tenth of the deceased HP total to the Bloodspilt's blood pool, and causes the corpse to fall to dust without moisture as the disintegrate spell

Mine
Death Blood (Ex): At third level a Bloodspilt can claim the blood of corpses, assuming it has fresh blood in it. The creature can be deceased for no more than Con Mod * Bloodspilt level minutes, and it must have the appropriate biology [DM discretion]. This ability adds Blood Points equal to a tenth of the deceased creature's max HP to the Bloodspilt's Blood Pool, and causes the corpse to fall to dust as the Disintegrate spell.

My Comment
My thoughts: I think you might want to make it give BP based on the age, but maybe that's too much bookkeeping. I added the age to try and remove some of the discretion in favor of clear guidance, I also removed the reference to enemies because that seems awfully restrictive (and perhaps even open to messing with).

Your Reply
huh I don't see the word 'enemy' in the above ability, though I figure that with age generally comes advancement, so in effect it's simpler to just go with a fractional HD, though I should add to round down

My Reply
You don't see enemy in mine because I removed it from yours. And by age I didn't mean age of the creature, I meant age of the corpse. Sorry for the lack of clarity there. Who wants to absorb 5 day old nasty coagulated blood that's got who knows what growing in it. But actually, as I think about it, that's a horrible idea because it adds too much bookkeeping. I like leaving it as I wrote it is good.

'your' reply (as in mine again :smallwink:)
Yes, well you make a valid point and as the first character I play as this is gonna think blood is rather grouse that will defiantly be on his mind :smallamused: Anywho I'm gonna take your version, ass to round down, and maybe tweak the wording a bit when I get a chance (nitpicking through always takes longer than debating what to nitpick :smallwink:)



Bloodless

Bloodless (Ex): At fourth level Bloodspilt can direct their blood away from other areas of their bodies in order to fight longer. At any time, they may take one point of Constitution damage to heal fifty HP. Excess health gained flows into the Bloodspilt's Blood Pool as BP. This Constitution damage does not reduce the Bloodspilt's Con Modifier, but it does stack with any other Con Damage or Drain to determine if the Bloodspilt hits 0 Con. Con Damage taken by this ability may only be healed by the Bloodspilt willingly sacrificing any combination of BP and HP equal to fifty. In addition the Bloodspilt can no longer be subject to bleeding wounds, or death by massive damage. This ability can be used as an immediate action.

My Comment
My thoughts: The "In Addition" bit feels completely tacked on. You should make that line its own ability (called SUPER CLOTTING or something, I dunno). I changed "Free Action" to "Immediate Action" because I like how 3.5 moved away from free actions to swift/immediate actions. I did that to something else above too, the blood pool I think?

Your Reply
well honestly I've mostly been looking at the titles, and looking through a bunch of abilities for subtle changes in the wording is too much. My control-F can't pick up any other swift/immediate, so I guess not. I suppose immediate works. I had made it free mostly because at higher levels this may be all but useless if it faces too much of a time limit, though just in case the other one you changed was 'bloody spell' I want to point out that that one is vary specifically free because that they can still cast spells with immediate action casting times and quickened as opposed to making the slot only to be unable to cast the spell.

My Reply
No worries. What I changed was in Blood Pool. I made converting HP to BP a swift action. That means you cannot get BP if it's not your turn, so you can only use immediate action powers if you manage your Blood Pool properly. I think that's a good restriction. I left Bloody Spell as a free action for the reasons you stated. I still think the "in addition" part is tacked on.

'your' reply (as in mine again :smallwink:)
maybe I should gather that stuff and add it in later levels with maybe a bit of new stuff :smallconfused:

Blood Shield
Blood Shield (Ex): At seventh level a Bloodspilt gains the Blood Shield ability. This allows him to cover adjacent allies with his blood when an area attack that would allow a save for half damage affects them. This protection causes the shielded allies to take no damage. Using this ability is an immediate action that costs the Bloodspilt 10 BP per ally protected in this manner. Using this ability also denies the Bloodspilt his save, meaning he takes full damage from the attack.

My Comment
My thoughts: This might not cost enough, I don't know.

Your Reply
Well the true cost is loosing your save and needing to take the full thing... This means even if you have evasion you essentially still need to jump into the blast rather than out

My Reply
Yeah I know, as I said I wasn't sure. Definitely a thing to playtest. Though, as I believe someone else mentioned, you need to put something in to avoid "go team Bloodspilt" where they grant each other immunity. You should probably make the last line "Using this ability also denies the Bloodspilt his save, meaning he takes full damage from the attack and nothing can prevent this damage." Meaning that even Fire Resistance wouldn't help vs. a Fireball if Blood Shield is used.

'your' reply (as in mine again :smallwink:)
ah, point. Fare enough

Of the Old Blood

Of the Old Blood (Ex): A Bloodspilt's blood carries a magical resistance from times when magic was everywhere. At eighteenth level, the Bloodspilt gains the ability to tap into this magical resistance. Whenever someone casts a spell that could affect him, the Bloodspilt may sacrifice a spell slot as an immediate action in order to gain Spell Resistance equal to 10 + the Bloodspilt's level + the Bloodspilt's Cha Mod + the spell slot sacrificed vs. that spell. This ability allows you to know whenever magic is being used on you, but doesn't tell you what sort. You may make a Spellcraft check as part of this ability to learn more about the spell targeting you (subject to all of Spellcraft's requirements).

My Comment
My thoughts: This is way too powerful. Since SR is opposed by a Caster Check this ability is 100% SR vs. any spell. A Caster Check is just 1d20 + Caster Level. So that's max 40 pre-epic. To get 40, a 20th level Bloodspilt just needs Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 10. Easy as cake, especially since Bloodspilts don't have spell slots to use up like Sorcerers do. If it's 10 + 1/2 level + Cha Mod + Spell Sac, that's then Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 20 for 100% resistance, a bit harder. But, it still can easily be 15 (Cha Mod 6 + 9th-level spell) for a DC of 35, damned hard to make on a Caster Level check.

Oh and yes I know, Spell Penetration and all that, but even at +4 (Spell Penetration + Greater Spell Penetration) that's = 14, which at 20th level is not hard (I would expect anyone to have at least +8 Mod in their primary casting stat by now). Add in another +6 to beat SR for various other doofiness, and as written that's Cha Mod + Spell Sac = 20 the Bloodspilt needs to achieve to get 100% resistance. Totally achievable, and as noted above, even if it's not 100%, 75% is easy, and to shake off any 9th-level spell targeting you, I think that's too much.

Your Reply
Honestly there are so many ways to boost CL out there... but I see your point and perhaps 1/2 level would work better. Though I may also point out that essentially this is avoiding an unknown spell at the cost of HP so lets say you use that 9th level slot each time, that's 7*9=63hp/spell and there's still that chance that it could get through

My Reply
Well, here's Spellcraft from the SRD: Spellcraft DC 15 + spell level: Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear the spell’s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry.

If you're able to use 9th-level spell slots and can't beat a Spellcraft DC of 24, the char build police would like to have a word with you. And once you know the spell, deciding how to gamble on it becomes a lot easier. It is a lot of BP, you're right, and that's definitely part of what needs to be seen in play to know how it'll actually work out.

Also, someone else had a good point about how this should not stack with any other source of SR.

'your' reply (as in mine again :smallwink:)
As I said to them SR never stacks :smallbiggrin: it's liked if you get DR 10/slashing and DR 15/bludgering than you just use whichever helps more :smallbiggrin:


Blood of My Blood

Blood of My Blood (Ex): You may now form the strongest bonds of all, now your blood siblings are truly of your blood, and may take levels in Bloodspilt. You also gain double the standard flanking bonus when flanking with the blood of your blood, and you may share up to fifty health with a blood sibling as a swift action if they are within 500' of you.

My Comment
My thoughts: This seems very weak for a capstone ability. Also, the ability to take levels in Bloodspilt once someone reaches XL 20 just seems very odd.

Your Reply
this is actually the ability I'm most worried of abuse for... you see being able to freely receive 50hp/round/blood sibling could be exploited to ignore the healing restriction...

My Reply
Well, that's easy enough to prevent. "You may use this ability on others as often as you want, but you may only benefit from this ability once per (minute/combat/hour/year)."
Or you could be nicer: "You may use this ability on others as often as you want, but you may only benefit once per (minute/combat/hour/year) from each Blood Sibling's use of this ability."

'your' reply (as in mine again :smallwink:)
Yeah, but I had intended it to make a difference all the same. Guess I'll add "this damage can't be healed except by bloodspilt abilities" or some such silliness...

drack
2013-02-05, 09:07 PM
Exploiting forum loop hole to bump without necromancy :smallwink:

PMed stuff to consider


Woot, a blood-casting class, and a blood-tank class potentially in the same game.

Strong Blooded: Heavy, but I like it.

Stiff Blooded: A fitting drawback to go with it!

Drawing Blood: An option: As well as, and instead of spending blood pool to heal, it can be spent to cast directly at a 1:1 ratio. Regardless, increase uses to 1/day per 3 levels, minimum 1 (2 at 6, 3 at 9, etc.).

Bloodless(Su:) (Changes in Bold)

At fourth level Bloodspilt can divert his blood away from other areas of his body in order to fight longer. At any time as a free action he may take one point of constitution damage to heal fifty health,Twice his Class Level in Health. This constitution damage does not count against the Bloodspilt's HP totalMaximum, and it may not be healed by any means other than the Bloodspilt willingly sacrificing fiftythe gained amount of HP for it's recovery. Excess health gainedHealth above the Bloodspilt's maximum normal does not become Temporary HP. Instead, it flows into the Bloodspilt's blood pool. and the fiftygained amount returned can also be paid from the blood pool at a 2-1 ratio. In addition the Bloodspilt can no longer be subject to bleeding woundsgains resistance to bleed damage equal to his CON, or and is immune todeath by massive damage.

hit send before I was done :I

Quickened Heart(Su:) A Blodsplit of fourth level or higher gains fast healing 1 when their heart rate rises and keeps blood flowing due to excess physical exertion (in combat)for a number of rounds equal to his class level whenever an en enemy's attack deals damage. These rounds do not stack, but do reset..

Master of Cuts(Su:) At sixth level a Bloodspilt can absorb the blood spilt around him as it worms it's way to them. This allows them to gain half the damage dealt by any slashing weapon to anyone else within 5'/bloodspilt level to be gained into their blood pool. 1 health in their blood pool per class level each time anyone (including the bloodspilt) takes HP damage from a slashing effect. This ability applies to any such damage made within 5', +5' every other Bloodspilt level (10ft at 8, 15ft at 10, etc.).

Blood mingling: Full round action.

Sanguine Complexion: Adds +1 to his CON modifier for every 3 levels (+4 at 12, +5 at 15, +6 at 18).

blood pledge: The coolest class feature I have ever read.

Blood Siblings: do blood siblings also gain the effects of the bond to each other? That is, is the damage split amongst all parties?

Overall, a solid, powerful T2 class. I really, REALLY like it. We'll have to discuss spell availability (or homebrew blood spells) to keep it in T3 range - but this class is simply amazing.