TorchWood: Miracle Day [Spoilers]

[Sunken Valley]

Well, it's coming thursday 14th with 10 new episodes and it was in Radio Times this week. Let discussion begin!

[Androgeus]

Just to point out that it starts tomorrow in America, on STARZ (source (http://www.starz.com/originals/Torchwood/Episode101))

[Sunken Valley]

With that taken into account I will change title. The interview with RTD in the Radio times brought many great insights into the show, like how he expected Children of Earth to be the last of Torchwood which is why Ianto died. Also, Bill Pullman is in Torchwood now. I hope the schwartz is with him.

[Triscuitable]

Let me just say, that because we have only three posts here, that we need more. Plus, the premiere? Two hours ago. And AWESOME.

I love this scene:

Okay, Jack and the new chick are in a building, Jack is attacked, he shoots him in the neck, crippling, but not killing him (MIRECKLEZ!), Jack then opens his jacket to reveal... The dude's a suicide bomber. He explodes.

I knew they had to show the aftermath, because it's on a channel that allows the horrid gore, violence, and cussing that shows like True Blood and Dexter (on HBO and SHOtime, respectively) use frequently. In other words...

Two scenes later, same dude is at the hospital, in chunks. Still alive, horribly burnt (think Two-Face from the Dark Knight, only WORSE, and ALL over the body, and barely alive), and incredibly scary. So what happens? Jack, using Owen's FBI credentials, suggests the surgeon showing them the body tries to amputate the head to see if it can survive under such conditions. It can. AND IT'S SCARY AS HELL WHEN THEY SHOW IT.

In the meantime, Jack can die. Hooray.

[factotum]

Hey, no fair! The show was invented in the UK yet we don't get to see it until Thursday! :smallfrown:

[turkishproverb]

Revenge for you guys hogging Doctor Who for a good decade. :smallamused:

[KillianHawkeye]

Pretty wild. I don't really like the new characters, though. Can't wait to see what happens next!

And what the eventual fate of Torchwood will be. (I remember in season 2 of new Who that Torchwood still exists in the future, which I've been wondering about since the end of Children of Earth because there's practically nobody left now. Also, whatever happened to the Glasgow and "we lost it" offices of Torchwood? Captain Jack mentions them at the beginning of the show and we never hear about them again.)

[Szilard]

I think the cool part is that if you don't have Starz, you can just see it on the starz website. :smallbiggrin:

But yeah, I have to say that that season-premiere was pretty darn good. Though I've also heard there are separate British and American versions by only a few minutes. The British version has silly British jokes with their weird British humor as well as more references to older torchwood and the Doctor, while the American version has more violence and gore. Or something.

[Triscuitable]

The British version has silly British jokes with their weird British humor as well as more references to older torchwood and the Doctor, while the American version has more violence and gore. Or something.

I would prefer the British version from that standpoint. I'm a DW fanatic. Of course, the scene with the blown-up but still alive-then-decapitated-yet-alive suicide bomber WAS pretty awesome.

[KillianHawkeye]

Aww, man. I was missing the British humour.* The whole thing felt too much like American TV.

*That's how they spell it in the UK, right? Or is that Canada? I can never remember. :smallsigh:

[Triscuitable]

I preferred it when it had the Cyberwoman and weevils and stuff. It's still good, and too early to really judge.

[Sunken Valley]

It's coming to us tonight!!!

[Androgeus]

Thought the episode was great, but that trailer at the end was way too long and wasn't very exciting.

[Aidan305]

Thus far, I can't help but feel I'd have preferred it had it not been Torchwood. This, while it looks like it's going to be a very interesting series, doesn't really feel like Torchwood.

Also, did anyone else feel that John Barrowman sounds less like John Barrowman when he's surrounded by other Americans?

[factotum]

Thus far, I can't help but feel I'd have preferred it had it not been Torchwood. This, while it looks like it's going to be a very interesting series, doesn't really feel like Torchwood.

A lot of the first episode is introductory stuff--reintroducing us to the characters, adding the new ones in, setting up the big problem, etc. You wouldn't necessarily expect it to feel the same. If it still doesn't feel like Torchwood at the end of episode 2, then there's a problem!

[Aidan305]

A lot of the first episode is introductory stuff--reintroducing us to the characters, adding the new ones in, setting up the big problem, etc. You wouldn't necessarily expect it to feel the same. If it still doesn't feel like Torchwood at the end of episode 2, then there's a problem!

I know. It probably doesn't help that I've been worried about this from when I first saw the trailer. There isn't exactly a great history of good American adaptations of British programmes.

[factotum]

I know. It probably doesn't help that I've been worried about this from when I first saw the trailer. There isn't exactly a great history of good American adaptations of British programmes.

It's not really an American adaptation, is it? It's funded by an American TV channel, but the showrunner is still Russell T. Davies and it still has the same main actors.

[Androgeus]

It's not really an American adaptation, is it? It's funded by an American TV channel, but the showrunner is still Russell T. Davies and it still has the same main actors.

It's co-produced by Starz and the bbc.

[Aidan305]

It's not really an American adaptation, is it? It's funded by an American TV channel, but the showrunner is still Russell T. Davies and it still has the same main actors.

So did Red Dwarf.

A change in funding means a change in targeted audience, which in turn changes how the programme works. While I think this will be good, I'm still not sure how much of it will really be Torchwood.

[turkishproverb]

So did Red Dwarf.

A change in funding means a change in targeted audience, which in turn changes how the programme works. While I think this will be good, I'm still not sure how much of it will really be Torchwood.

Yea, but this still isn't an american adaptation. it's more like when doctor who changes producer's.

[SuperPanda]

The second episode felt more torchwoody with most of the pieces in place and some more English (and welsh) humor in there. There is an obvious blending of styles with some parts of the plot being much more "americanized" like the spy networks and intrigue there while other parts definately feel like they have the spirit of the old show:

Gwen's moment of confusion over their get away car was hilarious. "Don't you american's go everywhere in those big old SUVs?" Its even funner when you remember that Torchwood's car used to be a big old SUV.

[ric0]

i loved it , so happy to see it moving on after the last seaon!

[Triscuitable]

Gwen's moment of confusion over their get away car was hilarious. "Don't you american's go everywhere in those big old SUVs?" Its even funner when you remember that Torchwood's car used to be a big old SUV.[/QUOTE]

The Mini has gotten more popular in America in recent years. My mom has the stick-shift convertible. And she loves it.

[thorgrim29]

What was that, what the hell is going on?

Welcome to Torchwood.

Brilliant.

[Hazzardevil]

I think on the behalf of the American Playgrounders, I shall explain Torchwood to them.

Theres this Man called "The Doctor". He has a blue police box that is a time machine. He goes through time and space righting wrongs and helping people.
He then meats Queen Victoria the 1st. She's famous for saying "I am not amused." She never said it though.
He has this adventure dealing with an Alien werewolf.
Queen Vic doesn't like this so she invents torchwood.
Torchwood is secretly run out of this massive tower in London called Canary Wharf.
It creates a hole in teh fabric to reality, including a parralell world which has been used before as a 2 episode plot hook.

There is this 2 part episode with Daleks. (Big metal robots with alien squids inside. The robot looks like a pepper pot.) and the cybermen. (Robots that take a human body, strip away the flesh and covers it in a metal armour, but keeps everything that keeps you alive and removes emotions.)
They solve the problem with the Alien/human Robots and they lose the resident action girl.

Now Torchwood is shut down.
Then Captain Jack starts it up again with a group of people, I'll make a list of who I can remember from the few torchwood episodes I have watched and explain what killed them.

Jack:

Jack was a companion in the first series for 1 season, he's around until the finale where he dies fighting Daleks, The Action Girl that gets trapped used the Time Vortex to bring him back after putting it inside her body.
Now Jack couldn't die from then on and lived on for at least 100 years until we reach the present where he restarts Torchwood, only with the rest of the cast and less shady operations.
Heres some examples of how invincible he is:
He has been killed by Lasers.
Been into contact with Nukeleor Radiation only worse.
Been blown up by a bomb that blew up the whole Torchwood under ground base and left a Burning crater in the middle of concrete.

Gwen:
She doesn't die, although I think she will have died by episode 10
Owen:
he gets shot very anti-climatically, he then gets brought back to life by a glove that normalyl brings them back for about 1 minute and then goes away. But Jack uses it and it works semi-permanantly and he dies again later, I don't know why or how.
Ianto:

He died at the end of children of Earth, until Miracle day came along, that was the last of torchwood.
He was around since the beginning and got killed by some poisnous gas that an Alien called "the 456" needed to survive. I'll explain Children of Earth at the end.

Japenese Girl:

I can't remember her name, although she was a technology whizz and went back in time to WW2 and told british people she was japenese.


Children of Earth:

Everyday for 3 days at a certain time every child in the world started saying "We Are Coming." they would repeat this several times and every one of them said it in English.
Then they said "We Are Coming Today."
During this time the Torchwood base and Jack gets blown up by a bomb and Jack gets pulled back together very painfully with his immortality and is then trapped in concrete.
The British Goverment is then in contact with this Alien called the 456 that says it wants 1/10 of the children on the planet.
This is after they demanded 10 children from the planet many years ago shortly after WW2.
The Goverment says no and then all the children in the world say the number of children the 456 wants from that country.
To cut a long story short, the Goverment sends the army to do it taking children from all the failing schools.
The man who has been forced to talk to the 456 then kills himself and his family to stop the soldiers taking his children not knowing how they chose the children.
Jack then kills his Nephew to save the world and Ianto dies. Thats pretty much it.

[Etcetera]

"I'm Welsh."
"This is Wales."
"Bloody Welsh."

etc.

Entertaining so far, but I'm not a hooked as I was by the previous mini-series.

[GrlumpTheElder]

Revenge for you guys hogging Doctor Who for a good decade. :smallamused:

Well, it is ours :smallbiggrin:

Interesting series. Didn't like the dead-but-not-dead-blown-up-and-burnt-dude, but I have thing about fire and burning, so that's understandable. Apart from that, It's pretty good.

[factotum]

Second episode definitely picks up the pace--this is what we want!

[Hazzardevil]

"I'm Welsh."
"This is Wales."
"Bloody Welsh."

etc.

Entertaining so far, but I'm not a hooked as I was by the previous mini-series.

This is faster paced than the last series.
So, favorite quotes for episode 2?

"You are not giving me Ethanol"
"Shut up! Your a patient!"

[Triscuitable]

"I'm Welsh."
"This is Wales."
"Bloody Welsh."

etc.

Entertaining so far, but I'm not a hooked as I was by the previous mini-series.

This. Is. WALES.

I like Wales. My name's Welsh. Rhys. Funny coincidence, that is.

[npc revolution]

Y'know the homemade poison cure that they put together? Can anybody around here confirm whether their method was medically accurate? I'm a stickler for accuracy where it's possible. :smallbiggrin:

[Triscuitable]

Y'know the homemade poison cure that they put together? Can anybody around here confirm whether their method was medically accurate? I'm a stickler for accuracy where it's possible. :smallbiggrin:

Can you confirm that Human Centipede was 100% medically accurate?

I'm pretty sure they thought it through, and looked some stuff up.

[Shadowy]

So I watched the newest episode last night.

My brain now hurts.

[KillianHawkeye]

I wanna know how that redheaded chick gets everywhere so fast.

[Etcetera]

I wanna know how that redheaded chick gets everywhere so fast.

Plot.

My theory is that she belongs to the same organisation as the G-Man.

[Triscuitable]

Plot.

My theory is that she belongs to the same organisation as the G-Man.

Episode four will guest-star Gordon Freeman's voice actor.

[chiasaur11]

Episode four will guest-star Gordon Freeman's voice actor.

Ross Scott?

(As for the cure, I'm betting against it working. I mean, considering the understanding of the US legal system, physics, poisons, biology, the CIA, and so on displayed thus far, the odds are against being right on in that detail.)

[Hazzardevil]

Ross Scott?

(As for the cure, I'm betting against it working. I mean, considering the understanding of the US legal system, physics, poisons, biology, the CIA, and so on displayed thus far, the odds are against being right on in that detail.)

Gordon Freeman has a voice actor?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Well I just spent the past half of the week watching the first couple seasons of Torchwood, so I would know who was who and whatnot. Very enjoyable ride, but I can't escape the feeling that Miracle Day just...feels different from the previous seasons (barring Children of Earth where there's more similarities). Still enjoyable as hell though!

[chiasaur11]

Gordon Freeman has a voice actor?

Of course. (http://www.accursedfarms.com/movies/fm/)

Really went in a different direction than you'd expect, but it works.

[factotum]

OK, just watched episode 3...I'm really hoping this whole thing isn't just a way for a large pharmaceutical company to make loads of money from selling drugs. That would be the absolute lamest supervillain plot since Tomorrow Never Dies...

[Raddish]

I am kinda expecting the living forever not being the only change that is happening and is more of a side-effect. But I am crazy...

I am really enjoying this new torchwood, it's actually better than I expected for me, and I thought it would be pretty damn good to begin with.

[Triscuitable]

I am kinda expecting the living forever not being the only change that is happening and is more of a side-effect. But I am crazy...
I think it may turn out that Miracle Day, while not making Jack be able to regenerate, is just making him vulnerable to being hurt... Badly. But hey may still be immortal, just under the circumstances everyone else is under.

[mumwithdice]

Big Pharma related to aliens? I hope!

Maybe that's how the PR girl gets around so fast; she has alien technology.

[Etcetera]

Maybe that's how the PR girl gets around so fast; she has alien technology.

A sinister interdimensional PR worker...

I think, so far, the second episode would have to be my favourite. I'd have preferred if they hadn't showed ol' Oswald preaching in the trailers, so his changes would be less of a surprise.

[Triscuitable]

Big Pharma related to aliens? I hope!

Maybe that's how the PR girl gets around so fast; she has alien technology.

I just want a good 'ol Who villain to be behind it all. This seems like a Dalek-esque plot. Maybe Eleven will show up. Yeah, I wish.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm starting to miss the good old days when Jack was Jack and chased anything that moved. Why have they made him exclusively homosexual????? You can't have a bisexual guy on American TV????? :smallconfused::smallsigh::smallmad:

Please no more "gay jokes!"

[turkishproverb]

RTD did that mostly. He focused, hard, on Jack's interest in males basically from series 1 of torchwood, and it only gotten more male oriented as time went by.

[KillianHawkeye]

RTD did that mostly. He focused, hard, on Jack's interest in males basically from series 1 of torchwood, and it only gotten more male oriented as time went by.

But he was in charge of Doctor Who during all the seasons where Jack appeared, too, so that doesn't explain the change. Besides, Jack had some good chemistry with Gwen during the Torchwood years, at least. They might have hooked up if she hadn't been busy with the other guy.

Do you think that having a bisexual character is like having a free pass to be gay but "not really" on tv?

[SuperPanda]

A big part of this is that John Barrowman, the actor, is gay. I read somewhere a while back that when Jack moved to Torchwood one of the things Barrowman and RTD had talked about was trying to make Jack's gay "side" of being bisexual both more dominant and more acceptable.

Personally I think Torchwood season 2 and 3 worked alot better in it and Season 3 handled it very well. Season 4 had that one explicit scene in it and while I was having a "too much information" moment at the time I've realized that this was more of an immature reaction than anything else. Its not something that excites me, but if Jack had been with an attractive woman I wouldn't have complained and so it was too much of a personal opinion and not really a basis for criticism.

From my socially liberal mindset, I am glad that John Barrowman has found a way to potray a masculine man as gay and hope that the creative minds of the project find him something more like Ianto. Jack's relationship with Ianto was charming, silly, and very human. Jack having random romps with people he's only just met was, while definately part of his character, not something I actually wanted on the screen.

Despite finding the doctor attractive, Rex's affair with her wasn't something I wanted explicit scenes of either (if only because there seemed to be an element of force involved there and I don't like seeing men force themselves on women).

Jack's dalliance made me uncomfortable because I'm not used to seeing explicit homosexual sex and had an immature reaction to it. Rex's dalliance made me uncomfortable because I'm overanalytic and drew a false conclusion from the dialogue in the scene. If we wind up seeing Gwen and Reis my only complaint would be that Reis's is not a body I'd like to see in the nuddy so to say.

Those are my thoughts.

Love the miracle and the sci fi going into it. Very well done and thought out so far. I like Esther's character, I'm hoping she gets over her crush on Rex and finds a healthier outlet (Jack would not be healthier for either Esther or Rex :P ). I can't wait for soemthing bad to happen to Danes, Bill Pullman is doing an amazing job at creeping me out while pushing my buttons.

I too hope to see Sontarans or Daleks at the end of the rabbit hole, if only just for giggles. As an afterthought, the Silence make a lot of sense as a potential villain and I wouldn't mind seeing Jack flirting with Adipose fat babies (as so very wrong as that might be).

[KillianHawkeye]

A big part of this is that John Barrowman, the actor, is gay. I read somewhere a while back that when Jack moved to Torchwood one of the things Barrowman and RTD had talked about was trying to make Jack's gay "side" of being bisexual both more dominant and more acceptable.

Okay, that explains it. Thanks.


I too hope to see Sontarans or Daleks at the end of the rabbit hole, if only just for giggles. As an afterthought, the Silence make a lot of sense as a potential villain and I wouldn't mind seeing Jack flirting with Adipose fat babies (as so very wrong as that might be).

I seriously doubt we'll be seeing any Doctor Who villains in this season, since we haven't seen any during the rest of Torchwood as far as I can remember. Any of those guys would cause the TARDIS to bring the Doctor to help, and I doubly doubt that he'll make an appearance.

Of course, the Doctor could show up at the end, and then Jack can come back for the second half of the current season of Doctor Who, but that would just be wishful thinking.

[turkishproverb]

Cyberwoman was an old-monster episode.

[Triscuitable]

Of course. (http://www.accursedfarms.com/movies/fm/)


Ha ha. You knew what I was referring to. It's in his mind anyways, never opens his mouth to speak.


I'm starting to miss the good old days when Jack was Jack and chased anything that moved. Why have they made him exclusively homosexual????? You can't have a bisexual guy on American TV????? :smallconfused::smallsigh::smallmad:

Please no more "gay jokes!"

Note Jack's first major line that offered a mound of character development was when he zoomed in on Rose's butt during the London Blitz and said "Nice bottom." Cue soldier next to him, "Excuse me?" The next few lines of conversation ended with him commenting on the soldier next to him, and smacking his rear in turn. "But you've got a nice bottom as well."

[KillianHawkeye]

Note Jack's first major line that offered a mound of character development was when he zoomed in on Rose's butt during the London Blitz and said "Nice bottom." Cue soldier next to him, "Excuse me?" The next few lines of conversation ended with him commenting on the soldier next to him, and smacking his rear in turn. "But you've got a nice bottom as well."

That's exactly my point. In Doctor Who he flirted with pretty much all of the Doctor's female companions in addition to whatever men happened to be around. He was more like a ladies' man who wasn't into only ladies. But now for no clear in-character reason he's pretty much exclusively homosexual.

I don't have any problem with him being gay, I just think it's a waste of his character. Being into everybody because he's from the future and it just doesn't matter anymore was a unique character trait and way more interesting and thought provoking than just liking men because he can get away with it.

[HalfDragonCube]

That's exactly my point. In Doctor Who he flirted with pretty much all of the Doctor's female companions in addition to whatever men happened to be around. He was more like a ladies' man who wasn't into only ladies. But now for no clear in-character reason he's pretty much exclusively homosexual.

I don't have any problem with him being gay, I just think it's a waste of his character. Being into everybody because he's from the future and it just doesn't matter anymore was a unique character trait and way more interesting and thought provoking than just liking men because he can get away with it.

Surely if he was into anything that moves, and contains the power of the time vortex, the wouldn't he eventually accidentally become his own ancestor and rip reality a new one? His homosexuality is possibly protecting the universe as we know it.

Maybe I'm clutching at straws for an explanation here.

The most annoying thing for me is that scene tacked onto the end of series three revealing he is the Face of Boe, who eventually dies. It kinda spoils it knowing that even though he is mortal currently, he survives through this series. (Or something like that.)

[Sunken Valley]

OKAY, WACKY PREDICTION TIME!

I've just seen episode 4 (not number 5 though) and I will try and predict who the evil aliens who made the miracle are. They are a new baddy (of course) and I believe that they do not have a physical form. That american voice that is heard sounds too much like something a computer could make. That is why they need Phicorp. Under their instruction, Phicorp built several "miracle generators" to sustain the miracle so the aliens can enact their plan. Phicorp are likely told big lies by the aliens so that they will work for them and then be screwed over. Miss Kitzinger is likely a low-ranking member who doesn't know "the secret" and will do a high heel face turn at the end. The aliens intend to possess those who are "dead" and use the bodies to take over the world. They need Oswald for his high charisma modifier and his dead nature so that the Alien boss can personally use him as the conduit. Oswald will likely betray them and that is how they will be stopped. I also expect that they are doing it partly to have a go at Jack so they can kill him. Once they are defeated, everyone will die (except Rex who is healed at the end.)


Yes I know that's too "unquiet dead" but who cares?

[KillianHawkeye]

Maybe I'm clutching at straws for an explanation here.

I agree. :smallamused:

[Triscuitable]

OKAY, WACKY PREDICTION TIME!

The Silence. It HAS to be the Silence. If Eleven just spent the last two seasons messing with their plans only to completely botch them upfront and ruin their chances of taking over in a totally anti-climactic ending (written by Russel T. Davies, taking care of Miracle Day), then their revenge on humanity while they are being actively hunted down should be to prevent them from dying. If the Silence runs PhiCorp, there you go.

[HalfDragonCube]

The Silence. It HAS to be the Silence. If Eleven just spent the last two seasons messing with their plans only to completely botch them upfront and ruin their chances of taking over in a totally anti-climactic ending (written by Russel T. Davies, taking care of Miracle Day), then their revenge on humanity while they are being actively hunted down should be to prevent them from dying. If the Silence runs PhiCorp, there you go.

Maybe... That phone isn't actually being called. The phone rings, guy picks it up. The Silence emerge and implant of what he does into his mind with their suggestion powers and leave. No calls to trace. This would also explain why Torchwood never witnessed anything when it rang.

...That's creepy. :smalleek:

[Triscuitable]

After watching tonight's episode, I gotta say several spoileriffic things.

On characters:
That new guy with the glasses (not that one!), is likely the best portrayed, easy to hate character in the entire Whoniverse. So yes, more easy to hate than Martha. Yes, MORE EASY TO HATE THEN MARTHA.

Vera joins Torchwood, and takes a rapid leave by provoking the guy mentioned above, which nets her a shot in the thigh and shoulder, and thrown into the classification one block (see below), and CREMATED.

Jack is doing his best to try and make Oswald oust PhiCorp. Other than that, he puts on a good show when they get Rex outfitted for the Overflow camps, and calls him "my stupid boyfriend!", prompting a middle finger on Rex's behalf.

Rex is set up to be put in the Overflow camps so he can see what's really going on, and ends up seeing Vera burnt alive.

Gwen and Rhys (not me) attempt to get her father back, failing when he suffers from a heart attack, following him being classified as a class 1 in the Overflow camps.

Esther does Esther stuff.

On the plot:
The biggest thing to talk about here is the Overflow camps, and what's going on. The US and UK have the same policies, and people are classified in their conditions.

Class 3: Nothing wrong, totally functional, not a "weak link" where any event could have hurt them recently.

Class 2: Recently, or is suffering from something that could prove crippling or potentially lethal. Is what becomes of a Class 1 should they be given time to reccuperate, like Rex.

Class 1: The guys that should have died, and are being set up to be "removed". The current characters who are known to have been classified as this are Rex and Gwen's father. The most brutal thing about this is how the removal is performed, by incinerating them into conscious ashes. Vera attempts to out the GWTG, and is promptly shot and thrown into a chamber as he turns on the incinerators. This is PhiCorp's solution to keeping the Miracle population in check.

Final thoughts:
This is the best, and most depressing episode of the series yet.

[Iskandar]

Yeah, I have been fairly impressed so far. I wasn't sure I was going to be going in, but things are going well so far.

I admit to some worry, though. The way things are set up, the reveal HAS to be mind blowing. Any misstep and the whole show implodes. I like Torchwood, I'd like there to be more Torchwood episodes. The way things are set up, either this series will go down as must watch.... or this will be the end. With this much build up, there really is no middle ground.

The fans' reaction, either way, should be interesting.

[factotum]

I dunno. I got home late after a business trip on Thursday, and when the clock came round to 9pm I sat here thinking, "I can't be bothered to go and turn the TV on to watch it"...and furthermore, I also realised it didn't bother me that I couldn't be bothered! I've come to the conclusion that if the show hasn't grabbed me enough after 3 episodes to make me care if I see it or not, it probably isn't going to, so I doubt I'll watch it again.

[Robert Blackletter]

Sorry, this as been bugging me, why couldn't they just use the lip reading software in Gwens glasses to read the tracker lips after he been shot? They obversely covered their track which would have involved moving his body, so why not make him talk using the software as a translator?

[Shadowy]

Sorry, this as been bugging me, why couldn't they just use the lip reading software in Gwens glasses to read the tracker lips after he been shot? They obversely covered their track which would have involved moving his body, so why not make him talk using the software as a translator?

Probably something along the lines of "You jerks shot me! Why would I tell you anything now? Also, Ow."

[Sunken Valley]

I take back most of my last prediction. All the stuff that Phicorp are doing, that's nothing to do with the aliens. The aliens are doing this to have a go at Captain Jack. Captain Jack becomes mortal when before he was immortal. Suspicious, yes. I say the alien's plan is just to strip Jack of his greatest strength so they can kill him. Although that doesn't explain Oswald though. I am keeping bits of my last prediction intact. Like how I think the Miracle is created by "miracle generators" guarded by Phicorp. I still say that the aliens are formless but instead I propose that the energy from the miracle generators will be used to make them immortal once they've dealt with Jack. I still say that Jilly does a heel face turn (they need a new chick for their five man band). I still say that Oswald's betrayal of the Alien's will be crucial to their defeat. I also say that Esther plays an important role (she lampshaded her uselessness).

[Triscuitable]

4 episodes left. Also, That scene with the pen made me cringe.
Superb episode, eclipsing last week's outstanding plot twist, which may just top "SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!"

They're burning them, Rhys!
The only reason I know how to spell "Rhys" is because that's my name too. Same spelling. Welsh.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Class 1: The guys that should have died, and are being set up to be "removed". The current characters who are known to have been classified as this are Rex and Gwen's father. The most brutal thing about this is how the removal is performed, by incinerating them into conscious ashes. Vera attempts to out the GWTG, and is promptly shot and thrown into a chamber as he turns on the incinerators. This is PhiCorp's solution to keeping the Miracle population in check.

Actually...

I don't think we can say for certain if the ashes or conscious or not. The Miracle hasn't allowed people to use the function of destroyed organs after all, it just keeps them alive. If a person's brain is destroyed they may still be 'alive', but they won't be conscious anymore...I hope so anyway.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the whole 'ulterior motive and possibly knew it was going to happen' of the situation (plus the fact the Miracle has probably deliberately been engineered), I can't say I'd disagree with the system being implemented. With no one dying, resources and whatnot are going to be put under severe strain, the category 1's become disease incubators, etc.. Something would need to be done about the excess population, even if that means incinerating those who are brain dead so they're no longer a drain on resources. It's not pretty, but something of the sort would need to happen, the biggest flaw being if/when people began trying to change the categories to include more people.

[Iskandar]

And that is exactly the problem, yeah. You absolutely do NOT want the government having any right to declare you "dead" unilaterally. No, no, and definitely no. Abuses WILL happen.


and, in fact, did happen in the past two episodes


Unfortunately, there really isn't a good solution . You cannot allow the "dead" to pile up, otherwise you get disease and worse. You cannot trust the government not to abuse the power to declare people dead pretty much at will, and the families of those stricken cannot be trusted to make the rational choice either. (remember the Terry Schiavo mess? yeah)

That is one thing this show is doing well, really. I think if this kind of thing were to happen for real, we'd end up with pretty much what the show has shown us, eventually.

[Callos_DeTerran]

And that is exactly the problem, yeah. You absolutely do NOT want the government having any right to declare you "dead" unilaterally. No, no, and definitely no. Abuses WILL happen.


and, in fact, did happen in the past two episodes


Unfortunately, there really isn't a good solution . You cannot allow the "dead" to pile up, otherwise you get disease and worse. You cannot trust the government not to abuse the power to declare people dead pretty much at will, and the families of those stricken cannot be trusted to make the rational choice either. (remember the Terry Schiavo mess? yeah)

That is one thing this show is doing well, really. I think if this kind of thing were to happen for real, we'd end up with pretty much what the show has shown us, eventually.

Call me an optimist (or something else wearing an optimist) but I've never been one to believe that just because abuse is POSSIBLE that it WILL happen. The abuse in the two episodes is less abuse and more...a redefinition of murder in a world where people are still trying to figure out what 'dead' means. By all indications given so far, Maloney probably would have been stopped by his superiors if his...well...incompetence was known and 'burned' himself if his crime of murder was known. Course, I'm probably completely wrong, but we haven't been given information to the contrary either.

I mean, just look at Gwen! She's fighting tooth and nail to get her dad out because he became a category 1 (which I find a bit...hrmm..I can't describe it, but it makes me uneasy considering her 'rescue' is what pushed her father into category one). Heck, even Vera (in her own way) was declaring people Category 1 before the system was in place, remember her telling the police officer that a woman who was brain dead from her husband's strangling was what death looked like now? Sure, that woman MAY be able to come back in some form or another...but probably not without massive investment of resources and time that could be spent helping the people who need help.

[Triscuitable]

her 'rescue' is what pushed her father into category one).

Technically it wasn't her rescue, rather he suffered a heart attack at the moment they were almost out of there.

[Iskandar]

Ok, I've been thinking. I have been enjoying this show, I really have. I didn't think I was going to, Torchwood has been sort of hit or miss with me, and bringing it to America just didn't sound like a good idea.

I've been happily surprised, then, with how much fun this has been so far. I'm eagerly waiting for each new episode, and can't wait for the big ending.

But, and there is always a but, this just doesn't feel very Torchwood-y to me. They have been getting better, but up until about episode 4 or so, they could have written Jack and Gwen right out of the show, and not needed to change much to replace them with more CIA agents playing those parts. It does look like the big bad is going to be something out of Jack's past, so this may change, but to me this seems very much Torchwood-lite.

And they REALLY haven't been making much use of the Doctor Who extended universe that they are in. Where is UNIT, for example? You'd think they would have shown up SOMEWHERE by now. And the Doctor himself. I'm not expecting him to show up, but Jack really should have mentioned him by now. This is EXACTLY the kind of odd and strange situation that draws him in, and he is conspicuous by his absence. Again, I'm not expecting the 11th Doctor to show up, he'd ruin the build up, but Jack should at least have mentioned him by now. A little nod to continuity folks, acknowledge where you came from, all I'm asking.

(you know what else is odd? Who from the Doctor Who universe has traveled with Doctor, and is thus familiar with this kind of weirdness, is a doctor in her own right, who has served with UNIT, and has spent time with Jack? Martha Jones would kinda be perfect here. Yeah, yeah, maybe not the right fit for this show, but again something Jack really should have mentioned. Continuity and acknowledged the show's history and all that)

[Callos_DeTerran]

I think someone mentioned that there's essentially two versions of the show. The American version and the British version that has more shout-outs to Dr. Who.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think someone mentioned that there's essentially two versions of the show. The American version and the British version that has more shout-outs to Dr. Who.

I would really like some details on what the differences are, if that is true. And where I can see the "real" version. :smallannoyed:

[Szilard]

I believe UNIT was mentioned in the first episode, but I am not entirely sure. It's been a while.

[Goosefeather]

Ok, just caught up with the series, loving it so far. One thing I'd like to say, Gwen's house, and the beach with the chase scene in the first episode? Yeah, that's about twenty, twenty-five minutes away from where I live! :smallbiggrin: It's called Rhossili Bay, and it's gorgeous!

I do love how shows like Torchwood show off lesser known parts of Britain - some (by no means all, just some) Americans I've met seemed to be under the impression that the UK and London were pretty much synonymous, so it's nice to see other areas getting some attention!

[Sunken Valley]

Just saw episode 6, that was one massive cliffhanger. Any Yank who has seen ep 7 willing to spoil it for us? Because that sounds like the reveal episode.

[Triscuitable]

Just saw episode 6, that was one massive cliffhanger. Any Yank who has seen ep 7 willing to spoil it for us? Because that sounds like the reveal episode.

We won't get 7 any sooner. Sorry. But last week's episode? Mighty fine. Absolutely well done. Finally that d-bag with the glasses gets what's coming to him. Two bullets to the torso and a lot of pain.

[Androgeus]

We won't get 7 any sooner. Sorry.

We got episode 6 on Thursday, were as you lot got it the Friday before that. You should have had episode 7 this Friday. Actually doing a quick search I've found plenty of sources to download it. (I didn't mind, I've been pretentious and waited a week to watch)

[Triscuitable]

We got episode 6 on Thursday, were as you lot got it the Friday before that. You should have had episode 7 this Friday. Actually doing a quick search I've found plenty of sources to download it. (I didn't mind, I've been pretentious and waited a week to watch)

We just got it. It was amazing. We got the reveal.

And the Doctor got mentioned.

[Sunken Valley]

We just got it. It was amazing. We got the reveal.

And the Doctor got mentioned.

Tell us! Don't let River put you off.

[Triscuitable]

Tell us! Don't let River put you off.

"I have a friend. Named the Doctor. He travels with companions. Sort of like how you and I do."

That's all.

[Sunken Valley]

No. I meant the reveal

[comicshorse]

I really felt epsiodes 5 and 6 dragged along. I wish they'd compressed the events into one epsisode

[Triscuitable]

No. I meant the reveal

The reveal is that there was a man in 1920's New York, who, while coming into the city through Ellis Island, impersonating Jack, was stopped by, who else? Jack, who tackled him, got his papers back (ironically, the REAL Jack Harkness was likely about 2 or 3 at the time, who would later die in WW2), and left. He had spare time, visited this guy, and realized he just needed to get into the country. Jack uses future-tech after a bit of technobabble to forge the man's papers, long story short, the two get in a relationship, get attacked by a mob, forced to do a job involving an alien parasite that would slowly make FDR more and more senile, which they kill, get attacked by the police, who shoot and kill Jack, while the other man (Antonio, by the way, the two settled in Little Italy) escapes only to be caught and forced to spend a year of his life in jail, while Jack comes to visit him after he's released. Antonio is suspicious (and horrified) that Jack is still alive, so he attacks Jack, kills him, where Jack revives in the meat locker of Little Italy's butcher, surrounded by the town, and a frightened Antonio. While the town hacks away over and over at Jack, he is repeatedly killed. Later on, three men negotiate how the butcher would sell Jack for $10k. We see nothing of that after the scene. Jack is rescued by Antonio, when they then flee to a rooftop, where Jack retrieves his tailcoat. In the end, he tells Antonio that it won't work, and jumps off the building, dieing. Again.

There's a bit more after that, but that's another post.

Jeez, 5.8 magnitude quake yesterday! Buffalo got the gist of it, but DANG was Virginia hit badly, and the Washington Monument got cracked quite a bit.

[Sunken Valley]

It's Angelo, not Antonio Trisc, unless it's different in US.

I saw Episode 7. So Angelo is the architect behind the miracle. Maybe aliens are not involved at all. I do like the bad companion angle though. Makes me miss Adam Mitchell. My all time favourite Dr Who companion. However, the name drop of the tricksters brigade makes me think of a crossover. Dun Dun Dun!

In the mean time, I might drop out of Torchwood. Saw Jack getting tortured and I didn't like it. I thought it was repulsive filth. Definitely put me off. Plus the episode 8 preview shows Oswald beating a prostitute. That's just repellant. If I come back, it will be because of bile fascination.

[Tiki Snakes]

Still not got the faintest idea really where this is going, even with the knowledge of Angelo's supposed involvement. Seems pretty clear the guys who 'bought' Jack are the ones behind a lot of this though, sign of the triangle and all.

Oh, and anyone else think that maybe they weren't fully there, or not human? There manner, put me in mind of many of the Dr Who creatures who had the whole perception filter thing going on.

[Triscuitable]

It's Angelo, not Antonio Trisc, unless it's different in US.

I saw Episode 7. So Angelo is the architect behind the miracle. Maybe aliens are not involved at all. I do like the bad companion angle though. Makes me miss Adam Mitchell. My all time favourite Dr Who companion. However, the name drop of the tricksters brigade makes me think of a crossover. Dun Dun Dun!

In the mean time, I might drop out of Torchwood. Saw Jack getting tortured and I didn't like it. I thought it was repulsive filth. Definitely put me off. Plus the episode 8 preview shows Oswald beating a prostitute. That's just repellant. If I come back, it will be because of bile fascination.

I typed that a week after the episode. Don't blame me, they say his name like 10 times. Which is an obvious excuse for obfuscating stupidity.

[comicshorse]

What the hell is Jacks' RAF coat made of ! Its survived centuries of falls, shootings and alien goo.

[Triscuitable]

What the hell is Jacks' RAF coat made of ! Its survived centuries of falls, shootings and alien goo.

It's actually been ruined several times. In fact, he lost his original coat in between The Doctor Dances and Boom Town, which he didn't bother wearing when he was killed (for REAL) by a Dalek in The Parting of the Ways, before shortly being brought back to life (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CameBackWrong) by the Bad Wolf Spirit from the heart of the TARDIS. No thanks to Rose, of course. He's lost it in many other occasions, or had it dissolved, stripped, torn, burnt, or just plain blown up. Ianto actually bought him a new getup (with a slightly different turncoat) in Children of Earth (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Children_of_Earth%3A_Day_Four).

But about that other note, centuries. He likely bought one sometime in the 1940s, where he got his old one (after commenting on Rose's butt, of course), after his Vortex Manipulator broke after teleporting to the Victorian Era on accident.

[Sunken Valley]

New prediction!

"the blessing" are a race of aliens. They are non-sentient jellyfish like beings and they are trapped here by the families to produce the miracle.

That was a cool episode. And Oswald didn't beat the prostitute. One problem though. How come Rex can use the contacts to trick that fat mole into confessing? I thought they were isomorphic and only worked for Gwen?

[Androgeus]

How come Rex can use the contacts to trick that fat mole into confessing? I thought they were isomorphic and only worked for Gwen?

Yhea I have no idea what was up with that. One of my friends though Gwen might have lied about them being isomorpic.

[Tiki Snakes]

Yhea I have no idea what was up with that. One of my friends though Gwen might have lied about them being isomorpic.

She did and they called her on it at the time, too, via the text interface thing. She admitted it, even. Only Rex was in the Dark and has obviously figured it out since.

[Archonic Energy]

One problem though. How come Rex can use the contacts to trick that fat mole into confessing? I thought they were isomorphic and only worked for Gwen?

simple, She Lied... Ester even said so when they were explaining that bit.

Also, Kira & Q in one episode... who's next?

[Androgeus]

She did and they called her on it at the time, too, via the text interface thing. She admitted it, even. Only Rex was in the Dark and has obviously figured it out since.

oh yhea, totally forgot that ><.

[Callos_DeTerran]

simple, She Lied... Ester even said so when they were explaining that bit.

Also, Kira & Q in one episode... who's next?

Who and who?

[Androgeus]

Who and who?

Nana Visitor played Angelo's granddaughter, and also played Kira on Deep Space 9. John de Lancie was the CIA head guy and also Q in several of the Star Trek shows.

[Triscuitable]

I still have not seen this week's episode. No spoilers!

[Hazzardevil]

New prediction!

"the blessing" are a race of aliens. They are non-sentient jellyfish like beings and they are trapped here by the families to produce the miracle.

That was a cool episode. And Oswald didn't beat the prostitute. One problem though. How come Rex can use the contacts to trick that fat mole into confessing? I thought they were isomorphic and only worked for Gwen?

She was lying, the torchwood lenses have been used by Martha and a politician before, and probably countless other times before that.
Come to think of it, it wouldn't be difficult to actually set up contact lenses would it?

[Triscuitable]

She was lying, the torchwood lenses have been used by Martha and a politician before, and probably countless other times before that.
Come to think of it, it wouldn't be difficult to actually set up contact lenses would it?

Now that we've established that she was lying, I'll make it more than obvious.

GWEN WAS LYING ABOUT THE CONTACTS BEING LIMITED TO HER, CAN WE STOP TALKING ABOUT THAT AND MOVE ON?

[thorgrim29]

Aw man, I liked Esther... And I had realized for a while that Rex's blood had something to do with the blessing, but I didn't think they'd gone as far as a full transfusion. What I don't get is why it's treated as a big thing that he survives the mole's (Charlotte?) bullet after surviving all of his blood being ripped out of him, wasn't it obvious he was immortal now? Too bad they didn't make the transfusion a general policy before splitting up, they'd have to change the format of the show a lot, but the adventures of immortal Jack, Gwen, Rex, Rhys and Esther might have been loads of fun. Also I'm conflicted about Oswald, he's an unrepentant pedophile rapist murderer, but he's also got some of the best lines, displays common sense, and manages to make going to hell to molest little girls almost badass, so interesting character carried by a great actor in a moral conflict creating way.

So all in all I liked the show, but I thought the finale was a bit weak, and I hope the complete lack of info on the families, their motivation, history, resources, etc... is due to a future season being planned (pretty likely I,d say, what with Rex being immortal and Jilly learning about plan B), because if not it's just rushed past for no reason

[KillianHawkeye]

I just finished watching the ending. I thought it was great, with a good setup for another season. I'm glad Jilly survived that explosion and has more stuff to do. I really don't know how they would top the threat level (mostly towards Capt. Jack) of this season, though. That's one of the issues with having an immortal protagonist, I guess.

I agree that Bill Pullman was probably the awesomest murderer and child rapist ever portrayed on film, if there is such a thing. :smallconfused::smallbiggrin:

[Shadowy]

I've watched the whole series now, and I think that my opinion could best be summarized as this:It's a big hole! I waited for 9 weeks watching this show for a big holeeeeeeeeeee!

[Sunken Valley]

I've watched the whole series now, and I think that my opinion could best be summarized as this:It's a big hole! I waited for 9 weeks watching this show for a big holeeeeeeeeeee!

I know, I've only seen ep 9 and I was disappointed the blessing. Looking forward to ep 10

read your spoilers, I see Esther is dead. Called it. Rex is immortal sounds cool and I'm glad Oswald went out with a bang.

[Triscuitable]

I guess the whole point is that it is an organic being, clearly alien, that omnoms on any nearby rock with a badass gravity field. As I described it, it looks like a flesh wall with the chicken pox.

[Mkhaiwati]

I blame Rose.

[Triscuitable]

I blame Rose.

We all blame Rose. As Billie Piper, she appears as the 'agnostic' choice for the daughter in the "Average American Family" section in Jon Stewart's America (The Book)
Nonetheless, check out this old image I found. I think it's from the old DW serial, "The Deadly Assassin". Or as I like to call it, "The Redundant Repentance".

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110806171740/tardis/images/thumb/5/59/Row_of_TARDISes.jpg/250px-Row_of_TARDISes.jpg

You may be asking yourself "What are these hollow boxes?" Well, good friend, as a Whovian, you might as well be asking yourself "What am gravity?" and "Why does mouth speak?"

Still confused? Because they're Type-100 TARDIS units, in the default form. No chameleon circuit to speak of, but only because the chameleon circuit is working, cloaking as itself, as it would on Gallifrey. It's less of a box, like the Type-40 model, and more like a Stargate. Less fun though.

And who could forget that Torchwood had it's roots placed in Series 1?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110806171740/tardis/images/thumb/5/59/Row_of_TARDISes.jpg/250px-Row_of_TARDISes.jpg

[Giggling Ghast]

I've watched the whole series now, and I think that my opinion could best be summarized as this:It's a big hole! I waited for 9 weeks watching this show for a big holeeeeeeeeeee!

A big hole that goes through the world and has lived in symbiosis with mankind throughout its existence.

I just saw the finale. I was impressed. I didn't quite understand the mechanics of the Blessing.

I think I learned to like Oswald Danes just a little, at the end.

I'm a little dismayed at the reference to 'Plan B' by the Three Families. Surely they put down enough of their "agents" to make a big dent in their plans. I mean, how many people could three families consist of over the course of two or three generations?

At first I was like "How did Esther die and Rex live? BLARGH!" I mean, there's no way in hell he shoudl have. But now I see there's a good reason. smallamused:

[Triscuitable]

If it goes through the planet, and as Jack said, may contain the Racnoss' Huon, it may have been part of the shard Earth formed of, or at least formed into it over time.

That means we need not blame Rose. Blame Donna. BLAME HER FOR ALL OF IT! I wonder when the Doctor will mention the 456 or the Miracle, because he has acknowledged the attack from Abbadon on Cardiff, shortly after his meeting with the Beast.

[hamishspence]

It reminds me a little of the Great Maw in Warhammer.
(ogre deity, which consists of a tunnel of flesh right through the planet, lined with very big teeth).

[KillianHawkeye]

If it goes through the planet, and as Jack said, may contain the Racnoss' Huon, it may have been part of the shard Earth formed of, or at least formed into it over time.

Pretty sure Gwen called out how Jack was just BSing some stuff he'd heard the Doctor mention sometime, meaning that's not really the explanation.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Also, the Blessing wasn't the crevice, it was the empty nothingness IN the space...who am I kidding? xD I know nothing about Dr. Who.

[GrlumpTheElder]

What I don't get is why it's treated as a big thing that he survives the mole's (Charlotte?) bullet after surviving all of his blood being ripped out of him, wasn't it obvious he was immortal now?

Actually, all throught the series Jack was adamant that his blood had nothing to do with his imortality, that his blood was just blood. Thus his suprise when Rex doesn't die...

Shame really, I would have prefered Shabiro (John De Lancie's character) to have survived - much better character...

Glad Jilly survived though.

[Aidan305]

While I am still annoyed by the "9 episodes and it's a big hole" thing, i'm not nearly as annoyed as I was by Rex surviving at the end.

I literally said nothing but "No" for three minutes solid after seeing that.

[Sunken Valley]

While I am still annoyed by the "9 episodes and it's a big hole" thing, i'm not nearly as annoyed as I was by Rex surviving at the end.

I literally said nothing but "No" for three minutes solid after seeing that.

But time isn't solid. It's wibbly wobbly timey wimey. So it's a liquid:smalltongue:.

Surely it wasn't that bad? Esther's death I had mapped out from ep 7 or 8. The woobie always dies in Torchwood. Always. The Blessing being a big hole may have been a mistake but it was completely unexpected. Although after ep 8, I guessed the Blessing was non-sentient.

[Aidan305]

Surely it wasn't that bad? Esther's death I had mapped out from ep 7 or 8. The woobie always dies in Torchwood. Always. The Blessing being a big hole may have been a mistake but it was completely unexpected. Although after ep 8, I guessed the Blessing was non-sentient.
I was perfectly happy with the deaths of Rex and Esther really. They made sense and it was a noble sacrifice. What I object to is Rex not being dead because he had a blood transfusion from Jack.

[KillianHawkeye]

It wasn't the blood itself, it was the fact that the blood was apparently enough to trick The Blessing into thinking Rex and Jack were supposed to be the same.

[Raddish]

Not even Jack himself understood why that happened so I think it's not unreasonable to conclude it might be part of a possible plot for the next series.

Random and completely silly suggestion but they said the 'blessing' didn't reach out with it's late ffort to save the girl who I forgot the name of. What if it reached out to the two people giving it the blood and made them the same now? Very random theory but hey, strange things can happen in the torchwood universe.

EDIT: So yeah pretty much what was just sugested... I am gonna hide behind my rock again..

[KillianHawkeye]

Personally, I'm starting to wonder what kind of ramifications this might have on the greater Doctor Who universe, especially considering the immortal Jack --> Face of Boe thing.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I was perfectly happy with the deaths of Rex and Esther really. They made sense and it was a noble sacrifice. What I object to is Rex not being dead because he had a blood transfusion from Jack.

My theory is different. When the Blessing made everyone immortal, it made the only immortal guy a mortal again based on his blood. When it made everyone mortal again, I think it made Rex immortal cause it thought he was mortal cause he had a mortal's blood.

[Triscuitable]

My theory is different. When the Blessing made everyone immortal, it made the only immortal guy a mortal again based on his blood. When it made everyone mortal again, I think it made Rex immortal cause it thought he was mortal cause he had a mortal's blood.

That's exactly what I thought. Maybe the blessing "overrode" the point in time Jack is locked into, and forced true immortality into him. It makes more sense than blood being what shares time locks. Then we just need to put out a dribble of blood from Gallifrey, and WABOOM! Time Lords again. Like that'll ever work. We'll have the RANI save the Doctor or something.

[Androgeus]

That's exactly what I thought. Maybe the blessing "overrode" the point in time Jack is locked into, and forced true immortality into him. It makes more sense than blood being what shares time locks. Then we just need to put out a dribble of blood from Gallifrey, and WABOOM! Time Lords again. Like that'll ever work. We'll have the RANI save the Doctor or something.

Jack is a fixed point in time, not a time lock.

[Triscuitable]

Jack is a fixed point in time, not a time lock.

I had forgotten the name of the condition at the time. I am totally aware of said fact though.